Professional Freedom Isn’t a Pipe Dream, with Chris Walker

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:13.279 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:16.839 --> 00:00:21.480 Hey friends, welcome in and excited today because it's Friday, which means we're 3 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:28.039 sharing a throwback episode a and our feature conversation today is called professional freedom. 4 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:32.960 Isn't a pipe dream. With Mr Chris Walker over from refined labs, great 5 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:38.359 chat actually around just our personal, you know, kind of professional development and 6 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:41.840 finding that level of autonomy that I know so many of us seek, even 7 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:44.560 if you're not a founder or CEO, which many of us, you know, 8 00:00:44.560 --> 00:00:48.799 obviously aren't as a marketing show. But I know a lot of us 9 00:00:48.840 --> 00:00:52.880 desire that, that sort of freedom, and today's conversation is going to go 10 00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:58.920 there. Think it's one that many of us will grab something from. So 11 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:03.479 love that that Chris shared his journey and that we can clean things from it. 12 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:07.799 Okay, to housekeeping things before I send us to the featured conversation. 13 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:11.519 First is I want to say thank you to everyone who's participated in our be 14 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:19.959 tob growth audience survey. Takes less than five minutes. If you haven't filled 15 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:22.560 it out yet, we would love to hear from you. Just go to 16 00:01:22.599 --> 00:01:29.000 be tob growth podcom and this helps us continue to get better, figure out 17 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:33.200 what your liking about the show things. We can shift, change, morph 18 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:38.079 and evolve. And again it's quick thing. Will send you twenty five as 19 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:42.079 our way of saying thanks so much for participating and we're going to be drawing. 20 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:45.840 You know, one lucky participants going to win two hundred and fifty dollars 21 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:49.959 coming up real soon. Give you some some summer shopping spree money. So 22 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:55.040 again, beatby growth podcom takes less than five minutes and we'd love to hear 23 00:01:55.079 --> 00:02:01.439 from you. Second quick thing is that we are in the process of figuring 24 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:05.359 out the next stage of our segment. So we've been doing this thing Monday, 25 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:07.439 Wednesday, Friday where we'd bring like a show and tell peace and I 26 00:02:07.479 --> 00:02:13.360 loved doing that. The last month or so, Dan just had a baby 27 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:17.000 and emily's been on vacation. It's summertime, you know, you know how 28 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:21.479 it is. So we're going to have some sort of show and Tel segment 29 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:24.240 type stuff coming up that we're iterating on. But don't want you to just 30 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:29.400 think that we tried it and now it's just disappeared into thin air. Some 31 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:32.360 new format is coming and we're thinking about many things as we kind of go 32 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:36.479 into to q three, which is shocking to say that here at sweet fish 33 00:02:36.560 --> 00:02:40.360 were jump it into q three. Anyway. All right, let's dive in. 34 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:46.800 Today the throwback featured conversation. Professional Freedom isn't a pipe dream. With 35 00:02:46.919 --> 00:03:00.000 Chris Walker, enjoy as you build the skills, you build confidence in yourself 36 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:06.319 and when you have the confidence that ends up leading to the ability to realize 37 00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:12.759 the freedom in the professional world. Well, welcome everybody to the Hashtag sale 38 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:15.199 series on BB growth. I'm your shiny boy co host, Patrick Downs, 39 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:20.319 and today I'm massively excited to be joined by Chris Walker, the CEO of 40 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:24.080 refine labs. Today we're talking about professional freedom and an eagles somewhere crying out 41 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:30.879 in the distance, and I have titled Today's Episode Independence Cast Day. I 42 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:36.319 hope that plans. Probably not, but but, Chris, I would appreciate 43 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:38.560 if you could not make fun of that and please have some Cordr Patrick, 44 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:43.439 what's up? Man, really happy to be here. I am a happy 45 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:46.919 panda doc customer. So was good too could be to be invited here. 46 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:53.719 And and yeah, I mean I I have been an entrepreneur all my life. 47 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:59.520 That was locked in a job running side hustles for the first half of 48 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:05.000 my career and now feel very lucky, on the topic of professional freedom, 49 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:10.719 to be free to control my own destiny, to control my own compensation, 50 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:16.079 to control the things that I do based on my core values, not on 51 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:19.720 the values of other people that are have a higher title than me in an 52 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:25.120 organization, to be creative and innovate and do things that I believe in the 53 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:29.360 might not be accepted inside of companies. And so, for all those reasons, 54 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:32.079 I just feel like in a really great place. It's not for everyone. 55 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:36.759 Not everyone would be successful in a situation like this. A lot of 56 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:44.439 people are a lot better employees and they are owners or entrepreneurs or full freelancers 57 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:46.279 or however you want to look at it, which is fine as long as 58 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:51.639 you recognize what's most important for you. And so that's a little little context. 59 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:56.240 I appreciate that. And I was Ting through your post again and at 60 00:04:56.240 --> 00:04:58.680 one point you said I am free, like it came out of nowhere, 61 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:00.839 like could just burst from the night. I was wondering if that happened while 62 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:05.319 you were still working somewhere and you came to the conclusion that I actually do 63 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:08.959 have control over actions and what I do, or if it was when you 64 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:13.920 actually take go out on your own. Yeah, so it's been a it 65 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:17.319 was a long progression. It will be. It will be a long progression 66 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:21.199 for most people unless it's a very natural thing, which is you probably don't 67 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:28.240 need to listen to this podcast. And so for me, at like twenty 68 00:05:28.240 --> 00:05:30.959 three, I always knew that I wanted to run my own business and work 69 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:34.720 for myself. I was building e commerce stores in my bedroom at two in 70 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:40.680 the morning on Saturday night and going to my job during the day because I 71 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:44.639 like doing those things. At the beginning of my career I had a lot 72 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:47.079 of student debt from a really good college that I went to that I'm grateful 73 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:48.879 for, but I took on debt to do that. I wasn't in a 74 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:53.959 financial position to make that leap. I also think, as I reflect on 75 00:05:53.959 --> 00:05:57.839 it, that I didn't have the skills that I needed in order to to 76 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:02.160 do what I'm doing today. It required time. The first step in doing 77 00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:08.399 that was when I was around twenty seven years old, where I was in 78 00:06:08.439 --> 00:06:13.439 a job that I had reached a point where I wasn't enjoying it anymore. 79 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:15.879 I was stuck. I couldn't innovate, all the things that I love to 80 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:19.000 do. I wasn't able to do, which got me frustrated, and I 81 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:21.600 think a lot of this will resonate with a lot of people, which is 82 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:27.199 that I eventually looked at myself and I was like, why am I staying 83 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:30.120 in this job that I don't like? I do not need to do this. 84 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:34.759 I'm in control of this situation, and so if I'm in control and 85 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:40.680 I'm accountable to this, I can either suck it up and continue to go 86 00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:43.199 to this job that I don't like and try and figure out if there's a 87 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:48.079 way that I can change what's happening inside of that job to reflect to make 88 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:51.439 me more happy, or if I'm not able to do that, I have 89 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:55.800 the freedom to leave. Either freedom to leave, I have the freedom to 90 00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:58.680 go get another job, I have a freedom to go start my own company, 91 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:00.759 I have the freedom to do anything that I want. I think a 92 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:05.120 lot of people and I experienced this early in my career. It's like I 93 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:09.920 didn't feel like I had that choice. I felt like I was stuck, 94 00:07:09.959 --> 00:07:15.800 and so it takes a lot of like time and skill development and confidence building 95 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:19.879 and professional development to be in a position where you can, but you can 96 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:25.480 get there. Everyone can. Did the realization happen before you had developed the 97 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:29.079 skills and then you went head first into developing them even further? Was it 98 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:31.920 kind of at the same time? So when I when I left that job, 99 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:39.759 actually went into another one, and that change was the beginning process of 100 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:45.560 me figuring out that I'm just not built to work for somebody else. I'm 101 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:50.279 just not. I need the ability to do things that a lot of people 102 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:54.160 think are dumb. Like I'm say this a lot, a lot of people 103 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:58.319 will resonate. If I worked for somebody else, they would have shut down 104 00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:01.199 my linkedin in August of two thousand and nineteen before any of this happened. 105 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:07.000 And that's just the way it is and that's how so I need that space 106 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:09.800 to do the things that I believe in that most people don't believe in at 107 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:16.439 the time. And it's just a it's one, commit to whatever you're trying 108 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:18.360 to do, if it's to work for yourself, it's to get better, 109 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:22.839 it's to get a promotion, commit to it, do the things to build 110 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:26.720 the skills that you need to be successful, and then, three, just 111 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:31.600 go for it. But as you build the skills, you build confidence in 112 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:35.960 yourself and when you have the confidence, that ends up leading to the ability 113 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:41.279 to realize the freedom and the professional world. At least that's how it happened 114 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:46.360 for me. Yeah, I hope that more people start realizing that, because 115 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:50.840 a lot of people kind to me specifically about Linkedin, and almost every single 116 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:54.720 person I've interviewed has been incredibly anxious before we started about like Hey, can 117 00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:58.440 you not ask questions about this? I don't want to talk about this, 118 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:01.120 like I'm talking to like an a, this actor or something right there. 119 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:05.000 That worried. I'm sure you runner that all the time, but I used 120 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:07.759 to feel that way and then I just stopped giving a shit and I started 121 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:11.919 posting stuff that like resonate with me and I got lucky enough that my company 122 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:15.039 didn't care. But the reality is, though, that people do right. 123 00:09:15.080 --> 00:09:18.440 I mean I've never been in a situation where I've been reprimanded, but if 124 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:24.159 you heard of situations like that, for sure, like whether you are reprimanded 125 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.919 or because of the culture of the organization, you don't even post to have 126 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:31.919 the opportunity to be reprimanded. I think most people fall into that position where 127 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:39.200 it's just not not viewed in the right way from a company standpoint. Like 128 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:43.559 for me to work in a company and then post about all the dumb shit 129 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:48.080 that I see companies do would probably get me fired. Right. It's just 130 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:52.240 the truth, and so I think a lot of people working companies where that 131 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:56.480 type of behavior is frowned upon. Yeah, I mean even I did a 132 00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:01.679 like a session for my team on Linkedin and almost every single person said they 133 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:05.120 felt like they couldn't be there their true self. Yes, on social media, 134 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:09.279 it's true. Do you think people like in leadership positions have an advantage 135 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:11.440 there, though, or it's like, all right, maybe they can do 136 00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:16.559 it, but people, and I see row maybe can't. I think at 137 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:22.080 the surface I could understand why people would think that way, but I think 138 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:28.519 if you look really deep it's not any different. I think it's more about 139 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:35.399 the person that's the marketing manager how they subjectively feel and that prevents them from 140 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.080 posting. But I think if you had two people that were posting the same 141 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:43.080 stuff and the only difference was that their seniority was different, I actually don't 142 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:46.759 think that it would be viewed differently from an internal perspective. From an external 143 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:52.600 perspective, there's a different story, but internally, I'm not sure if any 144 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:54.519 of my employees are listening to this. Please start posting steward shit. I'm 145 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:58.200 likenke then to test his theory. Yeah, let's see what happens. It 146 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:01.480 would be interesting. Yeah, I still be the clip to it like it's 147 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:05.759 everything. So I was curious as well. On a point from your post. 148 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:11.480 You had said that there were some decisions being made that did not align 149 00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:15.080 with your values and that you felt like you would have the ability to speak 150 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:20.000 up about that. Is that something you did while you're working for other people? 151 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:24.879 Yeah, whether they I mean, the most obvious one that comes to 152 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:31.720 mind for me is in companies that do things that are in their best interest, 153 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:35.240 knowingly not in the best interest of their customers, in order to hit 154 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:37.360 their own goals, which does not align with the way that I see the 155 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:41.000 world, and so I think that, if you think about it, there's 156 00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:46.039 a million permutations of something like that that could happen in the company that doesn't 157 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:50.240 align with either values or strategic vision. Like I recognize it, a lot 158 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:54.159 of people don't have the strategic vision that I have for and how I see 159 00:11:54.200 --> 00:12:01.320 the world. But, like my my vision is very much so misaligned with 160 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:07.519 a majority of venture back companies, and so it would be hard for me 161 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:11.360 to continue to support an organization that doesn't align with the way I see the 162 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:15.919 world. And so that's kind of like the realization that took me a pretty 163 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:18.799 long time to get to, but that's where I am now. What does 164 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:22.759 it sound like to start speaking up against that? Like if somebody did feel 165 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:24.159 that land, and a lot of people do, but they don't say anything 166 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:28.000 like. Is there a good way to go about that, to actually a 167 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:35.720 net change? Yeah, I mean the easiest two ways that I've found to 168 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:41.399 enact change in in an organization is the most the most important one is to 169 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:48.320 remove your subjective opinion and put it in speaking in the words of a customer. 170 00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:50.799 And so if you want to get something done, like we should build 171 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:54.840 this product, or we should do this instead, or we should adjust our 172 00:12:54.919 --> 00:13:01.639 pricing model, then I would run a non bias survey to customers. Non 173 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:03.720 Bias mean you don't ask leading questions so that they tell you the answer that 174 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:09.480 you want, like a real survey or qualitative or anything, and then go 175 00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:13.360 back to executive and say, Hey, I know you wanted to do x, 176 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:16.039 Y and Z with the product, but here's what customers say. What 177 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:20.720 do you think about that? So that's one that's one way that I found 178 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.440 that work for all. The second thing is to back it up with just 179 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:31.080 objective data, and so an example of that might be, you know, 180 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:35.919 I know that we want to continue to generate all these leads we've been running. 181 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:39.919 We've been doing this content syndication for the past thirty six months. We've 182 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:43.320 gotten a hundred thousand leads from it. We've spent this much money. Fifty 183 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:46.960 dollars a lead. So we spent whatever that is, five million dollars or 184 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:50.000 something, if I can do the math in my head, and we got 185 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:54.200 this much revenue and like the math, that doesn't seem to make sense to 186 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:56.919 me. I'm thinking that we might want to take some of the money that 187 00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:01.919 we're doing over here that's non productive and move it to something like this. 188 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:03.879 What do you think about that? And those are a couple ways that I 189 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:09.080 think are good ways to approach it and not. What we're doing is dumb. 190 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:11.879 You guys are not going in the right direction. I don't feel like 191 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:16.879 that is the right way to approach it. And so yeah, those are 192 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:24.080 some of the things that I've figured out more strategic and eloquent things, ways 193 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:28.080 to approach it then when I was younger, because I know a couple people 194 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:31.679 that feel the same way that, but they probably spend most of their time 195 00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:35.039 on that topic like scribbling it in a notebook or plotting revenge inside of their 196 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:39.360 head. It's, instead of doing something about it. Well, why do 197 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.519 you think that fear exist? Is it mostly just like I don't want to 198 00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:45.919 be a homeless person and that that doesn't exist in a capitalist society, or 199 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:52.399 is there something greater there? I think it's hard to see all of the 200 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:58.159 options when you're so narrowed in. Right, like when I was in some 201 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:01.559 of those companies, one I had bills to pay, so I like couldn't 202 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.919 lose my job, right. So even the idea of putting yourself in a 203 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:11.320 position where you might is scary for people. And so it just goes back 204 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:16.360 to the framework at the beginning. Commit build skills. Once you have the 205 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:20.879 skills, you realize that the world is abundant, that if this company decided 206 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:22.759 to fire you could go and get a job at a hundred other companies, 207 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:28.799 or you could immediately go and take three contract roles and make twice as much 208 00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:33.720 money as you are in this one company, working part time. Like both 209 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.639 of those things are more than possible. And so when you have those options, 210 00:15:37.720 --> 00:15:43.440 it then all empowers you to be more direct. That's the way that 211 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:46.639 I've found that it works. And then the last thing that I'm thinking about 212 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:50.360 is, like, when I was challenging the views, I took myself out 213 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:54.960 of my role and I put myself in the what if I was the advisor 214 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:58.320 to the CEO? What would I tell them then? And so it was 215 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:02.759 always thinking of the best interest of the customer and the company, not about 216 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:07.000 what was in the best interest for me. And so when if you can 217 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:11.039 remove that element as best you can and feel true to that, then what 218 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:15.799 you're saying is the right thing to say. And yes, there will be 219 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:19.960 instances where you're in the wrong company and you get fired for that and, 220 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:22.679 to be honest, you wanted to get fired. If you get fired for 221 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:27.200 doing that, it's actually a good thing. That's hard to see sometimes. 222 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:32.159 It's like it's a hard thing to in art, but I agree. I 223 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:34.440 mean, I think people limit themselves a lot. Thing that the word dust. 224 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:37.080 I like. I'm just this. People wouldn't want to hear from me. 225 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:40.399 I hear that all the time and I talked about Linkedin. Really, 226 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:42.519 there's nothing I could say that someone else wouldn't say. I don't have any 227 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:45.399 value to add. It's so common and some of the people saying that or 228 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.000 that from the brightest people I know. And I'm like you talking about exactly 229 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:52.200 what were you thinking when you were saying stuff like that? Like what was 230 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:56.200 it coming from? Logic or was it just fear? Who's just like, 231 00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:00.639 look at this, I guy, Dave Garrehard. He's getting a million, 232 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:06.039 ten million views on every post. Like there's so many people out here posting 233 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:08.119 I'm not bringing anything new to the table. It's all bullshit. It's all 234 00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:12.160 bullshit. You tell yourself not to do something, it's just excuses, and 235 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:18.519 so I've started to frame it in a different way in my mind. So, 236 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:22.640 like every critical decision I've made in the last twelve months, I was 237 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:26.640 scared because it was it was a critical decision because it was paving new ground 238 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:32.599 in my life or my career. And when you're thinking about doing it, 239 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:37.039 it's scary and then once you do it it's not scary. And so that's 240 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:41.960 and it's if I had not made. There's probably like three or four key 241 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.799 ones. By not made those decisions, I really don't feel like where I 242 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.720 would be where I am today. Well, were those key decisions? The 243 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:56.039 one that really sticks out into my in my mind is I had this thislike 244 00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:03.559 real feeling that if come an he stopped building stupid trade show booths and started 245 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:07.200 doing field marketing events. But the field marketing event was an event to create 246 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:10.559 content and bring value to the audience, not to drive leads that you could 247 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:14.160 cold call them the next day. Then you could build an event. You 248 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:17.079 could divide fifty people and you could have a thought leader there, you could 249 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:19.119 interview them, you could take q Anda, you would make a ninety minute 250 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:25.599 video and then the video asset becomes the value of the event, not the 251 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:29.400 people that that show up. And so that was my theory. And then 252 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:32.720 if a company was spending a million dollars on a trade show, then what 253 00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:37.400 if they, instead of doing a million dollars a year on trade shows, 254 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:41.119 they only did three hundred and they spent the seven hundred doing these events, 255 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:44.559 one a week across the country, and they would if they did one a 256 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:48.720 week across the country, then they would theoretically have fifty two long form video 257 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:53.079 assets they could then break down and create a ton of content. And so 258 00:18:53.519 --> 00:19:00.160 my my objective was to do one to understand what it what it was like. 259 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:03.480 I needed it, to taste it so that and also to show the 260 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:07.640 companies that I work for what good looks like. Instead of doing this, 261 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:10.039 you could do this. Here's what the output is, here's what the Roy 262 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:11.839 is, here's how you distribute the content, here's what to do, here's 263 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:17.079 how much it's going to cost. Go get it done. And and so 264 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:19.359 I had every I had everything I needed to do the event and Jock for 265 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:22.720 on, which we did in January, which was amazing, and I had 266 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.279 everything that I needed to make the decision. I knew how much the event 267 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:27.079 was going to cost. I knew how much it was going to cost a 268 00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:30.680 fly the videographers there. I knew how much the video of editing was going 269 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:33.079 to cost. On you, how much the food was going to cost. 270 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:36.200 I had all in front of me. was like a Twelvezero bill and I 271 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:40.599 was like, what if I say yes to this and then nobody shows up? 272 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:42.519 It would be a huge waste. It would be a waste of money, 273 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:47.079 I would embarrass myself in front of Josh, telling myself all these stupid 274 00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:51.039 things, and then it was sitting on my desk and one day I was 275 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:55.599 just like fuck it, like we're doing this and I just in. It 276 00:19:55.960 --> 00:20:00.400 just came down to commit and then go and get it done, and forty 277 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.680 people showed up. We created an awesome video. It gave me the confidence 278 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.680 to do the next one with Justin wells the next month and we would have 279 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.119 done one in San Francisco and Austin, in Toronto and Boston and Chicago if 280 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:12.599 this hadn't happened. We had them all lined up. That had to get 281 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.799 canceled. And so, like now I'm ready to go and do those things 282 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:19.519 that I was at one point scared to do. And I knew, I 283 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:26.599 know for sure that the twelvezero spent drove in enormous sorrow. I and so 284 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:30.200 first time I ever noticed you was that video with Josh. Know what it 285 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:33.519 is? Yeah, I remember seeing because I love Josh, and I was 286 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:36.680 like, Oh, who's this guy sitting next to him? Is Very nice 287 00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:38.799 hair. I should check them out. And so that, I mean, 288 00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:44.720 that is like the the key point, if a company's listening, to think 289 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:48.680 about whether the idea of doing their trade show booth that a hundred fifty people 290 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.680 stumble by when they're looking for coffee, versus doing something like that was someone 291 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:57.240 that has fiftyzero followers in the exact target market. The year going after and 292 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:03.039 doing the event and getting exposure to the people that already follow them and elevating 293 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:07.319 your brand to where their brand is like. There's so many strategic reasons for 294 00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:11.519 the twelvezero investment to do the video and the whole event that I just find 295 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:18.119 to be a better like event strategy. So that was one. That was 296 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:22.319 one point when I was I had all the stuff, I was scared to 297 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:26.240 make a decision. Made the decision. It turned out amazing. If it 298 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:30.799 didn't turn out amazing, I would have learned a bunch of Shit. And 299 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:36.519 so either way, like I think we even myself a very guilty of this, 300 00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:41.640 telling stories in your head that prevent you from moving forward. And that 301 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:44.920 was when you're on your own. Right when you made that decision I had, 302 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:48.400 I was me and one other person and the company. Yeah, so 303 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:49.759 do you think you would have made that decision if you were like the head 304 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:55.640 of marketing somewhere without a phone? I would have made the decision, whether 305 00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:57.440 or not I would have been allowed to make the decision as a different story, 306 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:00.519 which is fascinating if you think about the head of marketing not being able 307 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:06.799 to make that decision. It's fascinating, but it's true. And so I 308 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:11.880 just when I think about some of these things, it's really interesting to frame 309 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:15.319 it up like if you're the head of marketing, if it was your money, 310 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.400 would you spend it? If it was your hundred thousand dollars, that 311 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:22.400 you're building out that booth at the industry conference and you need to have a 312 00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:26.039 positive R why, to put food on the table for your family and send 313 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:30.160 your kids to college, would you still put that hundred thousand dollars in that 314 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:33.920 trade show? Would you do something different? I'm really curious because I would 315 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:38.279 have to say that ninety nine point nine percent of people would not spend a 316 00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:41.279 hundred thousand dollars of their own money on that event and expect a Positi of 317 00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:45.240 Ury. Yet when it's not their own money, they love doing it. 318 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:48.440 It's also just things that have been done in the past. They're just like 319 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:52.200 repeating. You don't fired for building a trade a booth at a trade show 320 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.799 for the one that you've been going for for the past twenty years. You 321 00:22:56.839 --> 00:23:00.640 don't get fired for doing all of the stuff that's accepted. DOING ABM to 322 00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:06.279 make it set to your organization feel like you're doing something innovative. But the 323 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:10.079 paradox there's like all those things became standard because someone tried something new with the 324 00:23:10.119 --> 00:23:12.880 first place. So it's just such strange thinking. It's bizarre, man, 325 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:17.559 but I'm glad that I saw you in that video. Yeah, that was 326 00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:19.559 like, Oh man, I was like Travis Kickers Walker. I like that 327 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:25.640 guy. Jody was really smart shit that night he did. Yeah, he's 328 00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:27.440 a smart guy. It's funny when you put a camera at smart people, 329 00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:30.440 like a content comes out. Yeah, man. And so, like the 330 00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:34.039 thesis on this is you could go around to every city. There's a there's 331 00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:38.079 a Josh Broun, not exactly Josh Brown, but there's someone like Josh Brown 332 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.440 and every in every major city, and you go around and collect that. 333 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.720 Dave Gerhart and Boston, which is one that I have on the docket that 334 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.119 would love to make happen. You know some peeple, someone in Austin, 335 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.200 Texas. So when in Toronto, those are to get back to the original 336 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:56.279 point, that's like one time where I felt felt scared to make a decision. 337 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:02.440 That wasn't very scary, just like, just like posting the first time 338 00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:04.559 on Linkedin. Yeah, guys, just post on like then. Just do 339 00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:11.720 it. I'm telling you, nothing bad's going to happen. Might actually so 340 00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:14.319 to end with scared in the audience. I think that's a good place. 341 00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:18.759 Chris, is there anything that you want to plug here on the plugs out, 342 00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:22.519 so if you liked what you're heard on this podcast or on this one, 343 00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:26.640 we host podcast called the stated Demanda and there's forty episodes up there. 344 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:32.039 We're putting three to five up every week for people that are looking for a 345 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:37.440 forward thinking, unique way to approach the man JEM and think about marketing. 346 00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:40.799 Would highly recommend that you check that out. There's a ton of different content 347 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:47.039 types, a lot of detailed, both strategic and deep tactical work going on 348 00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:49.160 there. So I'd recommend that you check it out. I gotta check out 349 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.759 the PODCAST. Honestly, that's going to be what I did this weekend. 350 00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:56.000 I think right on. I appreciate you being here, man, I really 351 00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:00.559 really do be. Tob growth is brought to you by the team at sweet 352 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.799 fish media. Here at sweetfish, we produce podcast for some of the most 353 00:25:03.799 --> 00:25:08.920 innovative brands in the world and we help them turn those podcasts into Microvideos linkedin 354 00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:14.039 content, blog post and more. We're on a mission to produce every leader's 355 00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:25.119 favorite show. Want more information, visit Sweet Fish Mediacom