Resonate and Stand Out with Joei Chan

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:13.279 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:21.760 Hello and welcome into be to be growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block. 3 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:26.280 Today we're joined by Joey Chan. She's the director of brand and content 4 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:29.519 at three hundred and sixty learning. Joey, welcome to be to be growth. 5 00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:32.439 Hey, Vengie, thanks for having me. I'm excited. Yeah, 6 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:38.039 so I was thinking about introducing you as like a movie star or Docu series 7 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:41.200 movie. Sorry, I don't know a beat of be Star. I mean 8 00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:45.640 what? I don't know how to even say that. But how is that 9 00:00:45.719 --> 00:00:48.920 sound to you? Does that sound about right at this point? You're not 10 00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:55.520 gonna down of Docu series. No, some of our listeners are gonna know 11 00:00:55.640 --> 00:01:02.560 you for on Boarding Joey. It's actually now you guys have to business docu 12 00:01:02.600 --> 00:01:06.000 series. Two seasons of onboarding Joey, and then you got to season learning 13 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:11.680 audrey. So yes, we'll dive into all of that. I love the 14 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:15.319 Docu series, but maybe before we go there, tell us a little bit 15 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:19.159 about you and your journey to where you are now. Sure. So, 16 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:26.680 I am definitely not any like Daca series star whatever. I am an ordinary 17 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:32.760 person working at a marketing a job in a tech startup. Some I'm the 18 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:37.519 director of Brandon content at three hundred and sixty learning. Currently I manage so 19 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:42.599 the brand and the content teams in my company and our mission is to grow 20 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:48.959 brand awareness and generate organic pipeline across our key market. So that's US friends 21 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:53.760 UK and Germany, and the team currently includes content, SEO, social media, 22 00:01:53.799 --> 00:02:00.760 campaign and PR, video, website, brand designed and evangelization. So 23 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:04.040 yeah, it's a big team of seventeen people, which is kind of crazy 24 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:07.799 because if you've seen the the doc is series, you would know that I 25 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:12.520 started out as the only person in content and then kind of had to grow 26 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.439 the team from from scratch. And it all happened within the last two years 27 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:21.080 with covid and also, it's pretty mind blowing, before the six learning I 28 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:25.919 was basically doing a very similar job in other startups also focused on content marketing. 29 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:31.120 So that's really been my career trajectory and I come from a more like 30 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:37.919 literature, art, creative screenwriting background, so I did not study marketing at 31 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:40.719 all. I did not go to school for for business and I'm completely like 32 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:46.680 learning everything from like on the job. So yeah, I don't know if 33 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:50.960 a lot of people here would have a similar background or a very different I 34 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:55.000 love the unique background that you have and I'm sure it's allowed some like specific 35 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:59.680 flavor to come out. That's that's been helpful for you in your positions and 36 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:05.120 in the growth that you've seen. I think when I think of content marketing 37 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:08.080 specifically, it can feel a little stale and be to be it can feel 38 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:13.199 like hitting a quota. So when we see something like a Docu series right 39 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:20.319 it's like man, this is a totally different sort of left field idea approach, 40 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:24.759 and that's kind of how you felt right when you first heard this idea 41 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:30.960 to so walk me through how you were pitched this idea for onboarding, Joey. 42 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:35.280 Yeah, I mean like so I can't take credit at all for the 43 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:39.759 idea. It was from my then head of video, who was already working 44 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:44.800 at three hundred and sixty learning before I started. So he knew that I 45 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:50.319 accepted the job and we have met through my interview process a few times got 46 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:53.280 to know each other. He knew that I was into videos. I wanted 47 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:58.479 to start my own youtube channel but ever had like the Bendwid or the courage 48 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:01.680 to do so, and so he got this idea of like hey, I 49 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:08.759 want to try something bold and something completely, like different from what we've seen 50 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:13.800 from other SASS BTB companies. So are you in? Like I have this 51 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:18.839 idea of doing a docu series. I want to literally film you every day 52 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:24.439 for the first ninety days of your job through your probation, and we'll see 53 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:29.639 how how that journey is like, what the on boarding process looks like for 54 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:32.079 you, all the ups and downs, and whether you actually pass your probation, 55 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:35.079 because in France it's a pretty big deal like that. You you have 56 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:39.680 this three months where you prove yourself and then once you've passed it, you've 57 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:43.160 got to like a permanent contract, which is harder to you know, be 58 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:46.720 fired for, basically. So it's kind of like a milestone. And so 59 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:49.920 he's like yeah, why not do that? Because our like on boarding is 60 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:55.399 also one of our use cases. So that's kind of falls neatly into how 61 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:58.920 we want to target our audience and what kind of things they will be interested 62 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:06.560 in, but in a very like unconventional and personal and not sugarcoded way. 63 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:13.120 It's not like we we are putting on a show where we show like a 64 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:18.399 glossy version of what we want to present the company or ourselves as. But 65 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:24.279 it's really like raw, authentic, unscripted real life, like reality TV show, 66 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:27.680 but in a like more real sense of that word, unlike maybe the 67 00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:30.600 Bachelorette, where you know, there's scripts and yeah, still blossom. Yeah, 68 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:34.560 producers would like kind of do things to make things happen and but like 69 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:39.120 for us, it's completely real life. That was like literally my life. 70 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:42.279 M Yeah, so that was kind of the concept and how it came to 71 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:46.279 be. So when you and you might not even be able to put yourself 72 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:49.360 back in that mindset now that you've done so much work on these docu scenes, 73 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:55.800 but try to put yourself, Joey, back in what you expected before 74 00:05:55.839 --> 00:05:59.839 you guys started filming. So you say yes, but you haven't started filming 75 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:02.360 it and you're going, I bet it'll be like this. What did you 76 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:05.120 think? And then we'll dive into what actually happened, but I'd love to 77 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:10.959 hear your expectations. I was thinking that I was going to be like small 78 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:15.199 scale, homemade. He said he was going to film me on his IPHONE, 79 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:18.839 mostly apart from the interview, which is when a real setup cameras and 80 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:21.319 stuff, but most of the time was going to be. Like. So 81 00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:26.079 I had imagined in my mind maybe like some kind of bus feet type of 82 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:31.600 vlogs saying so and and also, like the reach would probably be limited. 83 00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:36.720 Maybe my parents would watch it, maybe a few of our team and and 84 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:41.360 yeah, I mean that I didn't think about it too much, but like, 85 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:43.959 I think subconscious I was thinking it's going to be something that will try 86 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:46.639 and we'll laugh about and move on, and I had no idea that it 87 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:51.040 was going to make the impact that it has made and that we're still talking 88 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:55.720 about it, to that we're still talking about it and a second season. 89 00:06:55.759 --> 00:07:00.079 There's a lot there. I think I would probably have about the same amount 90 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:04.319 of expectations, honestly. Yeah, yeah, what were your plans? His 91 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:09.319 plans, as far as number of episodes, how you were going to release 92 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:15.120 it? What was the thought process there? Yeah, so he actually had 93 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:19.480 a very ambitious plan. He said we're because like we're filming until the end 94 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:25.240 of the probation period in real time, so to keep up the momentum and 95 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:30.000 to make it like people really feel like they're following my journey. He has 96 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:34.319 like kind of made the promise to the audience and I mean pitch internally that 97 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:39.480 we're going to have one episode per week for thirteen weeks. So it's a 98 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:46.160 thirteen episode show. So each week we're gonna he's following me around for four 99 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:51.000 days documenting every day, and then on Thursday we have a sit down interview 100 00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:55.720 and then on Friday and Monday he would like be editing and then we're pushing 101 00:07:55.759 --> 00:08:00.879 it out like the following Tuesday. So every week, one episode for three 102 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:05.240 months straight. So it was pretty crazy and intent and I could a big 103 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:11.480 promise and I think we did not fully understood the amount of work that it 104 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:18.560 took for that to happen and get caught up with us after after a while, 105 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:20.519 wet. What point do you feel like it caught up, because I'm 106 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:24.680 assuming at first you have the excitement right, the energy behind it. It's 107 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:28.000 a new project. Exactly what point in the project you feel like it's like, 108 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:31.080 Whoa, this is a lot. Well, I think we need to 109 00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:39.120 mention an important element, which is like for three four episodes in covid hit 110 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:41.679 and cold watching change this whole thing up in some ways right, because it 111 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:46.320 adds such a special element to the first season. It's true. So I 112 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:50.679 have to maybe I have to thank covid for like making this thing bigger than 113 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:56.720 it is, because it completely blew up the thing where, you know, 114 00:08:56.080 --> 00:09:01.840 after three episodes we thought, okay, because the government is closing things down, 115 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.240 I was in New York, I had to like come back and cancel 116 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:09.480 a business trip, and he because we were told to work from home. 117 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:11.399 He can't follow me around in the office anymore every day. So we have 118 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:15.720 to like kind of figure out how to keep the show going on, and 119 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.080 we actually addressed this and it's very metal like we talked about this in the 120 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:22.120 show and me like, how can we keep this going if everything is shut 121 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:24.799 down? And literally, when we're filming that interview, we had no idea 122 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:28.480 what's going to happen. So it was very real, like the uncertainty. 123 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:33.000 None of that was like made up or fate, and I think you know, 124 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:35.639 that was also about the time where we realized, like it's going to 125 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:39.240 take a lot to keep the show going with all the constraints. And it's 126 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:41.559 kind of like what a lot of people are going through too, because they 127 00:09:41.600 --> 00:09:45.519 had to switch from working from the office to work from home. It's a 128 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.039 whole different setup, it's a different way to to work, to communicate, 129 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:52.200 to keep the team, you know, going and and manage people and all 130 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:58.559 that. So we were kind of, through the show, documenting probably what 131 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:01.440 a lot of people were experiencing a the same time, like the transition, 132 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:07.000 the uncertainty, the anxiety. Also, like because when the beginning of covid 133 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:09.120 nobody knew like how long was going to last. Like we didn't know that. 134 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:13.240 We thought it was going to be two weeks right, yeah, that 135 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:18.919 it was like forever exactly, and we did had no idea, and so 136 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:22.159 I think we kind of capture that to the show and that has like really 137 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:28.039 made the series resonate like so to so many people, because they're like, 138 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:33.399 Oh my God, I'm it's like watching my life through this person that I 139 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.200 don't know or this company of never heard about, but doesn't matter, because 140 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:41.039 it's it's now a very universal thing that we're all going through. And we 141 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:45.960 also pivoted from, I think, the more like originally was like a show 142 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.039 about on boarding and then now it became like a bigger, like, you 143 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:52.799 know, just life, employee life, journey through covid type. There's so 144 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:56.879 many parts of this right where you had to just choose the step out, 145 00:10:56.879 --> 00:11:01.679 create something interesting and then the chips kind of just started falling, right, 146 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:07.279 whether it was like the covid stuff or even choosing to do thirteen weeks. 147 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:09.000 You have to at some point. You have to put a week limit on 148 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:13.440 it, right and yeah, just kind of guessing and then you find out, 149 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:15.519 okay, if we do it again, which you did it again, 150 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:18.200 you changed a lot of stuff and we'll get to that. I did want 151 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:24.799 to talk about, from a business perspective, what the original intent was, 152 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:28.120 because then when the show blows up, obviously you're getting a lot of viewers 153 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:31.399 and maybe they weren't originally who you were going after. So let's talk about 154 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.279 that for a second. What was the original business pitch of the DOCU series 155 00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:39.200 for three hundred and sixty learning like, what were they wanting from something like 156 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:46.720 this? So, the context understand this is probably that important to note that 157 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:54.519 our company for a long time was built on Demandin paid acquisition, and that 158 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:58.879 was what has kept the wheel turning for a long time, very predictable and 159 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:03.320 scalable. And then the brand teams kind of like a newer branch where, 160 00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:07.440 okay, now we need to like kind of think about how our brand is 161 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:11.039 perceived, how can we get word of mouth and, you know, brand 162 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:18.919 awareness and all the organic part of marketing into the company organization? That was 163 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:24.039 not that was not there at all. So I kind of joined as a 164 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:28.399 piece of that, like I joined to build like Seo and the blog and 165 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:33.519 all that, and so video was part of that kind of brand organic strategy. 166 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:39.279 And so that docu series was pitched as a way to generate more brand 167 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:46.399 awareness and get more people to go to a website and then somehow convert them. 168 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:52.440 So the original idea is that we would get subscribers from the show and 169 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:56.600 then kind of nurture them and a turn them into M quels. And that 170 00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:00.720 was what was sold. And then the quickly we realize that, because it's 171 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:05.559 an ungated video series, why would someone sign up? Right? Yeah, 172 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:07.960 there was just not a lot of incentive for bill to sign up. And 173 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:11.720 the now like sinking back. It's also even if people signed up, it's 174 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:16.120 a long journey to like wanting to watch a docu series to wanting to request 175 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:20.360 a demo for assass product. So that would have been needed, like a 176 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:24.080 very long nurturing sequence that we did not have to have made that work anyway. 177 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:28.919 So so we didn't like. After while, realize that we're not going 178 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:31.080 to get a lot of sub crab us from this, but we are what 179 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:35.720 we are seeing our like a lot of views, a lot of people like 180 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:41.759 commenting and sharing and being excited and emailing us and messaging me about like how 181 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:45.399 much they resonate with the show and how amazing it is, how they wait 182 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:50.120 for the like they're literally waiting for the launch of the next episode. We're 183 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:52.519 like Whoa, like, we did not expect it at all. You're signing 184 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:58.039 autographs when you leave. Your an artist. No, but but I was 185 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:01.759 like really crazy. So we were a saying, okay, there's clearly some 186 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:07.080 kind of positive impact, just not what we thought, not in subscribers, 187 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:09.320 and so we kind of pivoted and be like, okay, let's think about 188 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:15.120 like this is a Tofu piece of content. Let's measure it with Tofu metrics 189 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:18.159 and not try to get leads or whatever, and so we pivoted and focused 190 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:24.320 on views and traffic and like just stop worrying about the conversion or the the 191 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:28.759 lead aspect of it, and I think it made it much more liberating and 192 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:33.879 also more appropriate for the type of content that we're pushing out. Yeah, 193 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:41.720 at some point you're going this isn't maybe the metric that we measured is off 194 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:45.159 a bit because it's a brand pass at this point right, like yeah, 195 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:48.759 guys are the Docu series is tied to the company and people are going to 196 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:56.840 see like both together, and that that's why brand is like pretty hard to 197 00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:00.600 to, to measure and even like Oh, yeah, to me about it. 198 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:03.200 The opinions of the people have about when you should start to like build 199 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:07.759 brand. I wonder your thoughts on this, even for like in startup culture. 200 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:11.919 Would you have started now with what? With what you know? Would 201 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:15.960 you have started a Docu series earlier because of the brand that it can build? 202 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:18.240 I would love to know your opinion there. I think so. So 203 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:22.759 what's funny is our head a video like who came up with this concept. 204 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:26.279 He actually left the company and built his own start up and in his new 205 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:31.120 company the first thing he was doing in marketing is Docu series and it's working 206 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:35.200 really well for him and he sees the value of that. And I mean 207 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:41.200 as a brand and content person. I probably will say, like that is 208 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:46.240 something that I would like prioritize to its close to your heart. Yeah, 209 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:48.399 of course, and also like just the fact that, I mean, look, 210 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:54.200 we're talking about it two years after we've launched it. Like no what 211 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:58.000 other like paid campaigns would get you this kind of impact. And you know, 212 00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:02.960 if you want to use the term Roy it's as less tangible. But 213 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:07.480 the reason why, the fact that it's less tangible and less easily measurable is 214 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:11.600 why it will make an outsize impact, because if it's easy and if it's 215 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:15.519 measurable and everybody's going to do it, then you're not differentiating, you're not 216 00:16:15.559 --> 00:16:18.480 doing something different, not taking a risk. So, you know, it's 217 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:22.679 the like risk and reward, high ris high reward kind of approach here. 218 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:26.320 I think it's not not saying that everybody should do a docu series and it's 219 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:29.840 going to work for everybody, but like, this is one of the cases 220 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:32.519 where, you know, we took a risk and they paid off. Yeah, 221 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:37.080 we recently had Dave Gerhard on and his new book founder brand is like 222 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:40.840 that, and it's this entire thing. Right, it's because so a big 223 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:44.559 part of it is, like what's a medium where the founder can tell their 224 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:47.879 story? And in your case you're not the founder. Right, it's an 225 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:52.360 onboarding story, but it works really well with three hundred and sixty learning and 226 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:55.039 the stuff that you guys are doing. So that makes a lot of sense. 227 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:59.600 But even just in telling your story, having a way, whether it 228 00:16:59.720 --> 00:17:03.919 is a podcast, and that was in Dave Gerhart's, you know, situation 229 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:08.799 seeking wisdom as a podcast that he was helping cohost, becomes like this huge 230 00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:15.319 jumping off point and they were building the podcast before the company really even took 231 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:18.160 off. So it's again it's one of those scenarios where it doesn't have to 232 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:21.960 be a Docu series, it doesn't have to be a podcast, but finding 233 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:26.559 the medium that makes sense and being able to tell compelling stories, whether you 234 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:32.160 have like the the sign ups are not. Clearly it's the present and it's 235 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:34.200 the future. It's the things that we need to be thinking about. So 236 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:38.359 talk me. It's a little bit more through some of the results you saw 237 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:42.559 from season one and then we'll start to talk about the shift, because a 238 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:45.839 lot changed when you when you decided, okay, let's do this again for 239 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:49.279 season two. But what are some of those results? As you looked back 240 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:53.799 at at season one, some of the key learnings? So I think that 241 00:17:55.519 --> 00:18:00.519 in terms of like quantitative results, what we saw were like view use like 242 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:04.799 in in insane amount of views that we did not expect huge boost to traffic. 243 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:10.400 We did a product hunt launch which we got a lot of referral traffic 244 00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:14.880 from as well, and it like lasted continued to come like even after the 245 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:18.240 launch, which was surprising. So so I think those are like the number 246 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:22.440 side of things and then like qualitiesive is really much more where it's at, 247 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:29.640 like all the just the feedback, the excitement, enthusiasm internally also because, 248 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:33.599 like most of the time marketing ship stuff and nobody else cares, but this 249 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:37.000 one was really like we could feel the company coming together and be excited about 250 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:40.440 it, and because it's also like part of their lives to write. They 251 00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:45.960 see their CEO, they see they're all hands, they see that we did 252 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.799 something and and how how is like, you know, Joey reacting to it? 253 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.359 How is she like, you know, dealing with this same situation we're 254 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:56.240 all in? So they feel very much involved and that also helped amplify because 255 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:00.480 they probably talked about it with their friends, they shared it on Linkedin, 256 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:04.759 they tell their clients about it and then they also get feedback from their prospects 257 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:07.880 and their client saying like, Oh my God like and then they feel kind 258 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:14.160 of proud of this joint project that they feel, you know, kind of 259 00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:18.799 very much involved in. And then I personally got a lot of messages from 260 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:23.279 people that I haven't talked to in years, like maybe even high school classmates, 261 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.079 saying like Hey, Joe, we haven't talked a long time, but 262 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:30.319 I saw this like crazy series you're doing and then reconnected with a lot of 263 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:34.359 people. There are, you know, replies to my news letter. Let 264 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:37.680 most of the time you just get like hey on, subscribe me, like 265 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:42.039 and but like during the time where we're launching the these the episodes, I 266 00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:47.359 would get responses to me like, Oh, I really feel like I really 267 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:49.839 resonate with what you're going through, or this is really helping me, or 268 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:53.920 I feel seen. And somebody said like I was literally crying when I was 269 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.000 watching this scene where you were negotiating your budget with your boss, because I 270 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.039 was going through the same thing and I was feeling that I suck and I'm 271 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.279 not good to my job, but actually hearing you talk about it in such 272 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:07.000 a kind of open way made me feel like, you know, I I'm 273 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:11.079 not terrible of my job and it's just what we go through that was like 274 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:15.759 one of the most, I think, memorable messages that I got, like 275 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:22.759 things like that. And then and unexpected kind of benefit to the project was 276 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:26.359 also that we realized it had a very positive impact on our recruitment. So, 277 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:32.400 as any like fast growing SASS companies or tech companies, you recruitment is 278 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:36.400 really a big bottleneck for growth and we've seen like candidates come in saying, 279 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:38.799 like I've seen the on warning series and that's why I want to join this 280 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:42.359 company because I feel like you guys are so different and and you know, 281 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:47.079 I feel that you're transparent, also, because that's one of our company values, 282 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:49.559 like it's to be transparent about salaries, how we do things, how 283 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:53.559 we work processes and all that, and that that kind of series, the 284 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:59.440 series is kind of like showing, not telling, way of like demonstrating that 285 00:20:59.480 --> 00:21:03.160 transparent and see part of our culture. And even today, like we use 286 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:07.920 that as a recruitment tool to show people like hey, you want to know 287 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.000 what a culture is like, just check out the series. Yeah, so 288 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:15.680 that's kind of unexpected. I love the transparency piece because there's a lot of 289 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:19.079 cultures that would talk about that and maybe they even have a good culture, 290 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:25.200 but there's something about you guys making that so public that I think it's very 291 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:29.200 valuable. It's risky at first because you don't know, but even just in 292 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:33.000 the messages you're getting, like it's something that every company goes through like this, 293 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:36.559 the types of stuff that you're showing are things that, yeah, I 294 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:41.119 just I value that in your guys as process to choose that, and I 295 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.720 mean I must say, even internally it was bold and not everybody agreed with 296 00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:48.519 it. Yeah, so, I mean it should be fought over, right. 297 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.119 Yeah. Yeah, I mean like in some all hands meeting, I've 298 00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:55.359 got questions about like what we're showing on on Boarding Joey. Sometimes we show 299 00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:59.920 conflicts and kind of how things are not working. Like is this how we 300 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:03.799 showing our company in a good light? Like are we showing too much, 301 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.960 basically like airing our dirty laundry a bit too much. So we've got push 302 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.559 bag and I've got some fire over it, and I mean like likeily, 303 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:18.279 my CEO is like kind of into this being provocative and transparent, and like 304 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:19.839 I had his back and that's why, you know, I was able to 305 00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:23.200 do it. But I can see how it might not fly in every situation 306 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:26.759 and that you will get some people who would think that it's not a good 307 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:33.119 idea. It's with every like kind of different or provocative thing that you do, 308 00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:36.640 there's going to be some people who won't think it's you know, it's 309 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:38.519 the best thing to do, and so kind of have to be prepared for 310 00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:45.799 some opposition. Did you, because season two was done differently in just the 311 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.960 amount of even, you know, thinking that went into it, because season 312 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.319 ones, like we got to do. We're gonna try and then we're going 313 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:56.519 to learn as we go. Season Two is we've done this once, we're 314 00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:00.799 actively choosing to sign up for another one and we can change that we want 315 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:03.960 to change with the knowledge we have now. So even on on this specifically 316 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:08.599 with transparency, did you rethink it for season two and have to make any 317 00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:14.519 changes or pivots? Yeah, definitely. So we've learned a whole lot in 318 00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:21.880 season one and just you know how much work it takes to like launch episodes 319 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:26.480 in real time, to decide on the number of episodes before knowing what the 320 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:29.559 story is going to be about. Like all of that we've learned and in 321 00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:33.799 season two we were much more thoughtful about it and thinking, okay, what 322 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:37.599 are the stories that we have to kind of fill on the number of episodes. 323 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:41.680 So much more thoughtful we've had to build around. Yeah, a freelancer 324 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:48.440 involved who is screenwriter, so he brought in like also an another lens and 325 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:52.960 perspective as well to help us built like story ARCS and which we had in 326 00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:56.319 season one by was much more lose. So my producer, then a key, 327 00:23:56.359 --> 00:24:00.000 had a loose story arcudn know how things were going to go, obviously, 328 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:03.799 so it can only be like kind of place holders, but it seemed 329 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:08.079 too we were much more intentional about like the things we want to say and 330 00:24:08.200 --> 00:24:15.759 kind of develop. What was difficult was that there are people that I was 331 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:22.279 hiring and interviewing and I didn't know whether they were going to be hired or 332 00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:25.200 whether they were going to stay or make it, and I have to take 333 00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:29.039 into account like what how much I want to expose them if you know they 334 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:33.039 were not gonna stay, and like whether they would be up for what I 335 00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:37.480 was up for, which is kind of crazy. Not Everybody wants to do 336 00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:40.920 like to be filmed while you're going through on boarding and you may not make 337 00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:45.759 it. Basically you might have the world seeing you fail your job. How 338 00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:48.119 do you do that? Do you have them? Do have to tell them 339 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:53.119 that they're going to be on the series or so? Yeah, I had 340 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:57.240 to ask them whether they would be up for it and they all said yes 341 00:24:57.319 --> 00:25:00.640 when they because they were excited a about taking the job. And but then 342 00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:04.960 I think even during there were times where they will be like, Oh, 343 00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:10.480 maybe this we shouldn't record, or like can we keep this off? Like 344 00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:14.400 so there were some like, I think, adjustments that needed to be made. 345 00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:19.119 That was not as much of like I wasn't asked, I think, 346 00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:25.759 cautious as they were. HMM, in some of my experience versus there's which 347 00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:27.759 I can pleatly understand, and you know, I have a personality and they 348 00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:33.359 have theirs that I totally respect. But I think all of that made it 349 00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:38.519 very different and maybe for some people they they feel that a little less raw 350 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:44.359 and like in real time. It was a little bit more produced and and 351 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.599 that's, I think, the part of the reasons. HMM. Yeah, 352 00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:52.839 it's at tension to be managed right because like, yeah, there's just it's 353 00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:55.759 just going to be different. And also you were hiring way more people in 354 00:25:55.799 --> 00:26:00.680 season two and the growth is different and producer is not the yeah, exactly. 355 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:03.480 So there are a lot of changes, there are a lot of more 356 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:08.519 people involved. It's a different story as well, like it's on boarding, 357 00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:14.200 but it's not somebody on boarding is I'm on boarding someone to the perspective. 358 00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:19.039 And then, but how do I like still respect and kind of authentically portray 359 00:26:19.079 --> 00:26:25.920 the people that are not the main character or are like so, yeah, 360 00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:30.279 a lot of I think things to kind of balance a bit. And I 361 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:33.839 also I was a lot more involved than season one so soon, when I 362 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:40.160 was just like the the object, the subject, like basically the person being 363 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:42.839 interviewed, and you know, just letting going with the flow and seem to 364 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:48.759 have to think about like you're almost like partially directing and you're the still the 365 00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:52.519 main character. And Yeah, yes, so, so that was a bit 366 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:56.400 difficult and I realize that. And then also like worrying about the actual like 367 00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:02.000 the real life aspect, like off camera, like I'm actually hiring people during 368 00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:04.200 Covid I've never seen a lot of them in real life before. How to 369 00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:10.240 make this work like that my real job off camera. So I think, 370 00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:15.160 and then considering their how they feel about all that first, before thinking about 371 00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:18.720 what's good for the show, because they are real people, they're actually going 372 00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:22.119 through the experience. So so I prioritise that persist. Okay, what's spicy 373 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:27.880 or you know, I think it's fascinating to hear you just share the story. 374 00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:33.799 And then there's this element where I'm going for our listeners in marketing, 375 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:38.839 let's say, in content. They love the idea of doing something provocative like 376 00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:42.599 a Docu series, or even let's go simple, like right now and be 377 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:45.440 to be there's a lot of people that want to start podcast, but the 378 00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:51.240 time commitment to do anything like that. That's a little bit outside of the 379 00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:55.119 box. That's more creative. It's an investment when it comes to time, 380 00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:59.119 when it comes to resources, when it comes to thinking power and and making 381 00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:03.480 something. So I wonder for you how have you balanced your time? I 382 00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:07.000 know, I'm sure it's not always done perfectly right. There's things that you 383 00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:11.839 would want to shift or change. How much effort, like were you giving 384 00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:17.319 towards the show versus other parts of your content strategy and things that are part 385 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:22.519 of your job description? Yeah, I mean if you, if you've seen 386 00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:26.000 season one, you you would have kind of witnessed how I was like literally 387 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:30.599 building out my content strategy. What I was doing from cratch building out like 388 00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:36.240 the blog, the SEO strategy, finding the agency and all that. So 389 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:41.079 so that's like the majority of my job then, I think, and maybe 390 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:45.880 I was, I would say maybe fifteen twenty percent of my time to this 391 00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:52.359 show of four season one. So we're filming every day and in the beginning 392 00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:55.000 when I was in the Office for filming every day and he was following me 393 00:28:55.039 --> 00:29:00.039 around, and then we're doing one one hour interview every Thursday. So you 394 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:03.279 can kind of have a mental note of how how much time that is. 395 00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:07.200 And then when covid hit and we had to work from home, we would 396 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:11.400 be doing like one facetime call a day, like a check in, and 397 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:17.680 then my partner would be filming me working at home as illustration shots, and 398 00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:21.839 then we'll do like a sit down interview again like once a week. So 399 00:29:22.039 --> 00:29:23.880 it's like a couple hours a week type of thing. Let me ask you 400 00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:29.279 one question about season one. So for someone who's falling you doing video, 401 00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:33.279 doing all the editing, he's also on the team and he's does he have 402 00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:36.759 a bunch of other projects, but like this became sort of the main thing 403 00:29:36.799 --> 00:29:40.480 he was doing, or what was his focus? Like I would say, 404 00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:45.039 first season one. This is his main thing because, yeah, every day 405 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:49.240 his filming and then he needed to edit and then also promote, like it 406 00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:55.200 a lot. Yeah, because, yeah, editing and then the promotion is 407 00:29:55.319 --> 00:29:57.880 was also a big part of it, like finding about, like getting as 408 00:29:57.920 --> 00:30:03.599 interviews or features in different blocks and then doing product hunt launch or figuring out 409 00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:07.200 like the the social push every every week, because you push the episode, 410 00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:11.799 but then we have a trailer like before too, and then, you know, 411 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.039 you have to do the you know, the the editing and and like 412 00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:18.400 a square trailer and then all that things. And you're outside of that a 413 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:22.160 little bit for season one. So it's it's taking up a bit of your 414 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:26.279 time, but you're not, yeah, as all in versus season two, 415 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:29.920 when you're wearing multiple hats. I'm assuming you're about to say that it took 416 00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:33.319 up a lot more of your time. Yeah, I definitely did, because 417 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:37.119 my the the video producer, then he has left the company. He he 418 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:41.279 stayed on to help produce the show because it's his baby too, but like 419 00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:47.319 he was essentially like halfway through the out of out the door anyway. So 420 00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:51.680 I had to own it a lot more, and so the coordination and then 421 00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:55.519 the promotion set of things was all on me. Yeah, I mean it 422 00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:59.519 was kind of a crazy time because I was also hiring it on boarding for 423 00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:04.839 people, so being very much like still owning everything that I was doing in 424 00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:11.240 content with and trying to delegate and train and on board New People, and 425 00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:14.880 then doing the the doctor series, it was yet time where I was working 426 00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:21.039 definitely more than like full capacity. So I mean, if we consider everything 427 00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:23.359 that was doing that time with still say that it's maybe like thirty percent of 428 00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:26.279 my time. There's still a lot of other things going on, but it's 429 00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:30.680 not out of a hundred. It's more like maybe out of a hundred sixty 430 00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.799 percent. HMM, it's a different way of thinking about it. Okay, 431 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:37.160 so here's where I want to start to wrap up our conversation, Joey, 432 00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:41.880 is I want to focus on, first, how it's this whole Docu series 433 00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:47.119 experience, the two seasons of your show, and then, I mean you 434 00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:51.759 guys have done three how these projects have changed the way you think about content, 435 00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:55.599 and then we'll go outward focus here at the end. But how is 436 00:31:55.640 --> 00:31:59.119 it change your perspective on marketing and and maybe helped you in other projects that 437 00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:07.440 you're working on. So I think fundamentally it's helped me think that taking risks 438 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:15.000 are worth it and to want to do more projects that are different. And 439 00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:22.119 also we've got a also kind of now got a bit addicted to the stocky 440 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.200 series format. Like we do want to do others. We're just like waiting 441 00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:30.200 for the right person and the right topic in the story. But I do 442 00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:35.559 think like this format. It's great and it's really fun to do and it's 443 00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:40.359 very and the best part it's very hard for people to copy. It's like 444 00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:45.759 first producing. It takes a lot more work than writing a few block articles. 445 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:49.440 Yeah, and your three seasons ahead of anyone else who would try to 446 00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:55.119 start this. And and also like it's just the way, at least the 447 00:32:55.160 --> 00:33:00.039 way that we do it. It's very personal, it's very about like the 448 00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:05.319 people. It's not a tactic, it's a story. It's real, real 449 00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.599 life people, real stories, and that it cannot be copied. So so 450 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:12.400 that is what I love about it and and what I think we will continue 451 00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:16.720 to do with the right person and angle and topic. And I think in 452 00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:23.079 general it's it's really defined our brand. Like a lot of people now associate 453 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:30.559 three, six and learning with on Boarding Joey, and also defined myself also 454 00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:37.240 as a brand content marketer. All the podcast interviews I've been doing since the 455 00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.880 duck is series is about the DOCTA series. I probably quickly need something else 456 00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:45.000 to, you know, to pull out of my head. Otherwise we were 457 00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.680 like, you know, this is a one track phony, but like it's 458 00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:52.599 yeah, it's really defined my career almost in the in the last year two. 459 00:33:53.440 --> 00:34:00.079 So I am I've just become this advocate for like provocative, differentiated, 460 00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:07.880 authentic marketing content that only you can, can produce and only you can share 461 00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:13.239 in a in a way that people cannot replicate in the same way and and 462 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:19.079 that creates such a strong connection to your brand and also, in a way 463 00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:22.840 liberating, because I think a lot of times, and in marketing content marketing, 464 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:25.440 we have to position ourselves as the expert. Oh, I know this 465 00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:30.880 and I'll show you seven ways to achieve x, but most of time it's 466 00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:32.840 it's a lot of bullshit and it's a lot of, like, you know, 467 00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:37.000 a lot of trial and error, it's a lot of looking at what 468 00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:39.519 other people are doing and seeing if it's effective. I mean, yes, 469 00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:45.599 yeah, exactly. And so through like this Docu series format, and and 470 00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:50.039 just like being real. It allowed me, at least personally, to just 471 00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:53.440 admit that I'm not an expert. I'm just figuring this out. I've liked 472 00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:58.000 done a few things right, but I'm still like tumbling through a lot of 473 00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:01.760 these things and I think that people really appreciate when you're just being honest, 474 00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:07.679 because everybody actually is in the same boat and that allows us to have a 475 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:12.320 much more honest and open conversation and learning experience, I think, together, 476 00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:16.639 not to try to be on brand here, but but like seriously, like 477 00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:21.519 you, once you admit that you're not, you don't know everything, then 478 00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:25.119 you can learn much more effectively and have a much more like real conversation with 479 00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:31.440 people. And you know, that's really how changed me. What's next, 480 00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:36.440 because there's not a season three. So you're talking about risks or worth it, 481 00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:37.519 you said at the right time, the DOCU series. But like, 482 00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:42.519 what's next for you, Joey? What are you focused on in this season? 483 00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:46.599 So there are few. There are few exciting things coming up for us. 484 00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:52.159 We've got a new brand video that we're launching. I'm working with this 485 00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:57.280 agency called Sandwich. They're like the best video agency that you know. In 486 00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:02.000 my opinions. I'm excited for that to come out and we also are in 487 00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:07.880 working on a book to be published. We might be doing, you know, 488 00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:13.119 a bigger launch around thing actually I cannot talk about, so I just 489 00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:20.679 scratch that your launch of something good teas. But I think it's also like 490 00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:25.159 for me currently, I think as the team has grown and they're more people, 491 00:36:25.159 --> 00:36:31.000 more creatives within the team, I'm also taking a step back in in 492 00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:36.679 the sense that I'm not focused on, okay, what is the next idea 493 00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:38.440 I can push out, what is next project, but more about like how 494 00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:43.639 can I enable the team to do that themselves? So it's a new set 495 00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:47.760 of challenges that I'm I'm learning to navigate, which is like more management problem, 496 00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:52.800 like a leadership challenge, like how do I I know I can personally 497 00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:54.639 do these things, but like now I need to figure out how I can 498 00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:59.840 able and scale the team to be able to do it and not have to 499 00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:05.199 be involved in every project. And that's a whole new, completely different job. 500 00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:07.480 It's not about how great I am. I creating content is about, 501 00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:10.480 like how can I motivate inspire people? How can I fit the right people 502 00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:15.599 in the right place and and enable them so that's where my my current challenges. 503 00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:20.719 Maybe it's a it's another podcast down the road where we check in on 504 00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:23.639 Joey's leadership and we don't talk at all about the Docu series. That will 505 00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:27.000 be the goal. What happened on a podcast where we talk about all the 506 00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.920 great content and other stuff you're doing, because there's a lot. But I 507 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:32.840 am super grateful for your time to day, Joey. Thank you for sharing 508 00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:37.039 your story. Thanks for the transparency. I love the the risk you guys 509 00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:43.119 have taken. There's a lot for us as marketers to learn from that and 510 00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:46.800 so I really appreciate it and and thanks for sharing. Yeah, I apreciate 511 00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:52.559 the chat. It was great to just like think about all that again and 512 00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:57.840 digest and it was very insightful conversation for me too. Well. We're always 513 00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:02.039 having conversations like this here on B tob growth. So make sure you are 514 00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:06.199 subscribed to the show. If you haven't yet. Wherever you're listening to this, 515 00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:09.039 you can do that and you can connect with me on on linkedin talking 516 00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:14.960 business marketing life. Joey, what's the best place for people to connect with 517 00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:17.320 you and stay up to date on the work you're doing and then also for 518 00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:22.119 three hundred and sixty learning as well. Yeah, I would say Linkedin also. 519 00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:23.920 It's where you can connect with me and and what we're doing at to 520 00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:29.800 sixty. Perfect well, thanks for listening, everybody, and keep doing work 521 00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:45.599 that matters. If you enjoyed a day show, hit subscribe for more marketing 522 00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:47.679 goodness, and if you really enjoyed the day show, take a second to 523 00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:52.960 rate and review the podcast on the platform you're listening to it on right now. 524 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:55.960 If you really really enjoyed this episode, share the love by texting you 525 00:38:57.039 --> 00:39:00.400 to a friend who would find it insightful. Thanks for listening and thanks for 526 00:39:00.440 --> sharing.