Rethink Top of Funnel Marketing with Angela Voss

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:08.509 Hello and welcome into Bob Growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block, and 2 00:00:08.869 --> 00:00:12.789 excited about today's episode because I'm going to have a conversation with Angela Voss. 3 00:00:13.150 --> 00:00:18.710 She's the chief client officer at marketing architects. Angela, welcome into be tob 4 00:00:18.829 --> 00:00:22.859 growth. Thanks, Benjie. Excited to be here. Absolutely so. You've 5 00:00:22.940 --> 00:00:28.940 spent nearly fifteen years with your company, Marketing Architects, and that's incredible. 6 00:00:28.940 --> 00:00:33.899 I love that. So tell me something about yourself the fifteen years you've spent 7 00:00:34.020 --> 00:00:38.649 with the company that you really learned in in your time there. Oh my 8 00:00:38.770 --> 00:00:44.329 gosh, the journey has been so fun. Yeah, yeah, I mean 9 00:00:44.409 --> 00:00:48.850 I spent four years and digital marketing prior to joining marketing architects, and clearly 10 00:00:48.850 --> 00:00:51.280 you're aging me here, by the way, by outing me that I've been 11 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:56.119 with Ma for fifteen years. But I started on the media side of the 12 00:00:56.200 --> 00:01:00.759 business, and this was one marketing architects was working in both radio and TV 13 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:06.549 and was working with radio stations trying to get them to clear our media and 14 00:01:06.670 --> 00:01:10.629 stuff, and when we launched our television platform, was asked to come over 15 00:01:10.670 --> 00:01:14.150 to the TV side, but still on the media side, and so I 16 00:01:14.269 --> 00:01:18.739 would say. I mean the value of being, you know, fifteen years 17 00:01:18.780 --> 00:01:23.620 into a company is obviously at that point you really deeply understand kind of all 18 00:01:23.700 --> 00:01:30.620 aspects and I think can more createdly think through how to address challenges or potentially, 19 00:01:30.700 --> 00:01:34.409 you know, we're privately held and so we don't have a lot of 20 00:01:34.450 --> 00:01:37.769 red tape that we need to work through. If there's a business case for 21 00:01:37.890 --> 00:01:42.769 us to spend up a new function, capability technology to help a client, 22 00:01:42.530 --> 00:01:45.769 you might not be able to do that if you haven't been around for a 23 00:01:45.849 --> 00:01:48.920 while. Just to kind of understand what the capabilities are. And our team 24 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:53.120 is awesome to they're they're always innovating on their own as well, but I 25 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:57.319 would just say being able to kind of put your head down and work and 26 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:00.950 come up with new ideas and treat the business as your own and have that 27 00:02:01.069 --> 00:02:07.150 deep understanding of all aspects of what we do is just invaluable. Yeah, 28 00:02:07.349 --> 00:02:12.629 I love that you've had so held so many different positions within the company and 29 00:02:13.629 --> 00:02:15.900 I think that does it speaks for itself and I'm sure it is so helpful 30 00:02:15.900 --> 00:02:20.219 day and day out to be able to have conversations with people all throughout the 31 00:02:20.259 --> 00:02:25.419 organization. Absolutely, Yep, rates for healthy, healthy media debates sometimes, 32 00:02:25.460 --> 00:02:31.090 and I mean see I I'm sure it does. Having that deep understanding is 33 00:02:31.569 --> 00:02:36.169 is just powerful, I think, on a lot of levels and I love 34 00:02:36.250 --> 00:02:40.370 it. Yeah, your voice would be much trusted. Sure, so fully. 35 00:02:40.449 --> 00:02:44.919 Well, here's here's what we want to do on today's episode. I 36 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:49.879 want to have a conversation about sort of a problem that I see in the 37 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:53.560 marketing landscape. I think I've gone on this rant a couple times, but 38 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:59.909 there's just like this assumption that certain types of marketing are outdated or they might 39 00:02:59.949 --> 00:03:04.270 be ineffective or some would say dead. Have you seen that when you comes 40 00:03:04.349 --> 00:03:07.789 to marketing, like in the current landscape? Have you felt that kind of 41 00:03:07.909 --> 00:03:10.629 conversation? Oh, definitely. You know, I think with the growth of 42 00:03:10.710 --> 00:03:17.659 digital we've all grown a bet addicted to short termism and you know, it's 43 00:03:17.699 --> 00:03:22.939 funny when you think about marketing teams and in us too, as you know, 44 00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:27.060 obviously we're a company that needs to market as well to prospects and you 45 00:03:27.139 --> 00:03:30.889 know, if I was kind of felt like if there's consumption of media by 46 00:03:30.930 --> 00:03:34.490 your target consumer, there's probably a place for it and your marketing plan, 47 00:03:34.689 --> 00:03:38.610 but it's all about getting the mix right. We subscribe to a lot of 48 00:03:38.210 --> 00:03:45.000 the marketing science research that's out there and our big believers and investing in mass 49 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:49.719 reach top of funnel effects. But it's all about understanding your consumer right. 50 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:53.840 MMM, they're buying journey their media consumption habits. If you don't have that 51 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:58.629 right, then building a diverse marketing mix is going to be difficult. You 52 00:03:58.710 --> 00:04:02.509 know, anyone can get a couple of marketing channels to work and your competitors, 53 00:04:02.590 --> 00:04:04.789 for sure, we're going to get those channels to work. So the 54 00:04:04.830 --> 00:04:09.870 value of finding that right agency and strategy to help you kind of crack the 55 00:04:09.949 --> 00:04:13.860 code on a channel that maybe you haven't seen success in. Those are really 56 00:04:13.939 --> 00:04:16.939 big ones and offering we find that's TV. You know, marketers might be 57 00:04:17.220 --> 00:04:20.860 a lot of them are digital natives, right, so they're starting half of 58 00:04:20.899 --> 00:04:25.810 the digital ecosystem. They kind of build some success there, they're acquiring new 59 00:04:25.850 --> 00:04:29.889 customers, they're starting to understand lifetime value and then they reach this point where 60 00:04:29.889 --> 00:04:33.490 they're like okay, now what you know, any time I add any additional 61 00:04:33.529 --> 00:04:38.370 investment into any of the channels that I'm working in, the performance starts to 62 00:04:38.410 --> 00:04:42.800 fall apart, and so that's where we see marketers try to look at television 63 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:48.480 then or just offline channels in general become of greater interest to them. But 64 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:51.800 yeah, it's the you know, there's been a wave, I would say, 65 00:04:51.949 --> 00:04:56.949 of where as digital came of age, it was very intriguing, one 66 00:04:57.029 --> 00:05:00.389 to one targeting, all this data, the ability to track performance, and 67 00:05:00.910 --> 00:05:03.990 now I think that space has gotten more challenging, costs have risen and there's 68 00:05:03.990 --> 00:05:09.139 kind of a swing happening back to top of funal marketing. Again, it 69 00:05:09.259 --> 00:05:12.220 feels like, yeah, everyone had this new toy, right. Yeah, 70 00:05:12.379 --> 00:05:15.579 so everybody's playing with that new toy and they're like, look at all the 71 00:05:15.699 --> 00:05:19.540 capability here, and they forget all about the old toys or the older toys. 72 00:05:19.540 --> 00:05:23.129 Right. But then there's something about that. I wouldn't even just say 73 00:05:23.170 --> 00:05:26.529 it's in nostalgia, but there's a reason why those other ones worked. And 74 00:05:27.089 --> 00:05:31.170 I love that because I you can come up with marketing studies that show all 75 00:05:31.410 --> 00:05:34.920 sorts of different things. When people get really hyper focused on, Hey, 76 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:40.439 we have a mission on why we're going to use this certain channel. Man, 77 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.920 a litany of things become effective, right, and everyone has their like 78 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:46.680 the thing that becomes their baby, and they get become passionate about it and 79 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:49.430 they're kind of proving out the fact that, well, in fact, that 80 00:05:49.589 --> 00:05:54.589 channel is not dead in a sense. Does that make sense? Absolutely, 81 00:05:54.870 --> 00:05:59.589 you know, and I think there's there's this fight between top and bottom of 82 00:05:59.670 --> 00:06:01.670 funnel, which to me is kind of crazy, right, because you're like, 83 00:06:02.029 --> 00:06:05.620 of course, as you think about your own behavior as a consumer, 84 00:06:05.740 --> 00:06:10.620 of course top of funnel marketing makes sense. Of course bottom of funnel marketing 85 00:06:10.660 --> 00:06:15.259 makes sense. It's just trying to understand with your product or service, how 86 00:06:15.379 --> 00:06:19.769 considered is of a purchase. Is this? How much mental space do you 87 00:06:19.930 --> 00:06:24.209 need to take in your consumer's mind so that when they come into market they 88 00:06:24.250 --> 00:06:28.370 think of you without having to, you know, go into Google shopping ads 89 00:06:28.649 --> 00:06:31.089 or whatever to make a buying decision? And so there's a balance that. 90 00:06:31.370 --> 00:06:35.759 I think that that's the biggest challenge that we see to is market is trying 91 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:41.079 to determine what is the right mix between top and bottom of funnel. So 92 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:45.720 what would you tell a marketing team that's trying to figure that out and that, 93 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:48.350 when there is that kind of internal fight between top of bottom as well? 94 00:06:49.269 --> 00:06:51.790 Yeah, well, like I said, a lot of the businesses that 95 00:06:51.870 --> 00:06:57.269 we work with they come in with very little top of funnel marketing going on, 96 00:06:57.470 --> 00:07:01.420 if any, and so you know, we always are prudent with our 97 00:07:01.500 --> 00:07:06.379 clients dollars and always will believe in and recommend that any top of funnel marketing 98 00:07:06.420 --> 00:07:10.860 channel or any channel in general, really should be kind of treated as a 99 00:07:10.980 --> 00:07:15.300 proof of concept before you're going to go all out. But I think, 100 00:07:15.970 --> 00:07:19.410 you know, the greatest successes in terms of clients that are gaining market share 101 00:07:19.649 --> 00:07:26.810 and establishing category leadership are in that I would say, thirty to sixty percent 102 00:07:27.329 --> 00:07:32.319 range of their budget going towards TV. Hmm, I wonder what does it 103 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:40.240 look like with TV to test, because that obviously I mean, you hear 104 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:44.240 that stat and it could sound like that's a pretty significant part of my budget 105 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:45.870 right. So, like, what does that look like and how do you 106 00:07:45.990 --> 00:07:50.310 test in TV? Yeah, being a hundred million dollar business or a ten 107 00:07:50.389 --> 00:07:55.949 billion dollar business. Like I said, we we always operate as if it 108 00:07:56.110 --> 00:08:01.540 was our own money and given our business model, which is a little different 109 00:08:01.579 --> 00:08:05.379 than a traditional agency, and that we we up front a lot of the 110 00:08:05.500 --> 00:08:09.220 cost with our own capital to help clients get into television. A lot of 111 00:08:09.259 --> 00:08:11.459 times that is a prohibitor right as they're just like well, yeah, I 112 00:08:11.579 --> 00:08:15.329 mean, of course I would love to be in television, but you know 113 00:08:15.649 --> 00:08:20.129 from what I understand that that that's no less than a million dollar venture and 114 00:08:20.250 --> 00:08:24.009 that's just not the case. And so that helps clients get in. But 115 00:08:24.089 --> 00:08:28.560 then once you're looking at what an actual pilot could look like, you've got 116 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:33.159 decisions to make about should we be testing naturally, should we be testing locally? 117 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.600 Contrary to what might seem to make sense a very large corporation working with 118 00:08:37.879 --> 00:08:43.230 potentially hundreds of millions of dollars in marketing budget, my actually have to test 119 00:08:43.269 --> 00:08:48.549 locally and use control and hold out markets and baselines and incrementality in order to 120 00:08:48.629 --> 00:08:52.870 see TV's effect at a pilot state. Whenever we possibly can do to the 121 00:08:52.990 --> 00:09:00.740 efficiencies of national we will recommend doing a national pilot that lasts anywhere between one 122 00:09:00.860 --> 00:09:03.860 month and six months. At the end of the day, we need to 123 00:09:03.940 --> 00:09:07.820 be able to prove. We look at it in three buckets on a micro 124 00:09:07.899 --> 00:09:11.610 level, on a macro level and on a business level. We want to 125 00:09:11.649 --> 00:09:16.409 be able to prove to that client that TV is driving incremental lift to their 126 00:09:16.490 --> 00:09:22.490 business and you know expects that. Just as we are produnent with our dollars 127 00:09:22.570 --> 00:09:26.679 that they should be as well in terms of ensuring that there's something there before 128 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:30.600 they're signing up for, you know, a yearlong commitment or more so. 129 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:35.320 There is some like, I would assume, unexpected results from top of funnal 130 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:39.789 marketing, from focusing on something like TV, maybe a more like nostalgic or 131 00:09:39.870 --> 00:09:43.190 whatever you call that, traditional stream like that. So tell me what are 132 00:09:43.230 --> 00:09:46.590 some of those maybe unexpected results that you guys have seen or you can kind 133 00:09:46.629 --> 00:09:50.029 of prove out from clients? Yeah, totally. I mean I think I 134 00:09:50.070 --> 00:09:54.659 would even start with you know that the obvious Kpis the clients come to us 135 00:09:54.779 --> 00:09:58.980 with are very similar to what they've gotten in digital right. So they're visits, 136 00:10:00.059 --> 00:10:05.259 conversions, COC return on ad spend, lifetime value, all of that 137 00:10:05.500 --> 00:10:07.370 is like table stakes for us. We set that aside and, of course 138 00:10:07.409 --> 00:10:15.009 our extremely focused on ensuring that a lot of businesses these days are needing to 139 00:10:15.490 --> 00:10:18.690 prove to the executive team that they're driving the leads they need to drive, 140 00:10:18.730 --> 00:10:20.600 their getting the sales they need to get, and so that is kind of 141 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:28.080 a prerequisite for TV to continue. Beyond that. What's fun about television is 142 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:31.919 what we call business impacts. Things like, you know, we had a 143 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:37.950 clothing clients that got a call from Disney wanting a partnership. M said that 144 00:10:39.070 --> 00:10:41.350 they had loved what they were doing in the space, saw them on television 145 00:10:41.389 --> 00:10:46.350 and wanted to discuss a partnership for the upcoming holiday year. And so how 146 00:10:46.389 --> 00:10:48.149 do you put a value on that? Some of the others that I can 147 00:10:48.190 --> 00:10:54.259 think of would be we see that our retail based businesses are in brick and 148 00:10:54.340 --> 00:11:00.419 mortar. Those negotiations with the targets and the Walmarts and the wall Greens of 149 00:11:00.460 --> 00:11:05.450 the world become easier when they've got kind of that cloud of television. We've 150 00:11:05.490 --> 00:11:09.289 had products show up on US and L that's pretty cool. Yeah, and 151 00:11:09.450 --> 00:11:13.649 it's like does that happen, you know, with a display ad? Maybe 152 00:11:13.730 --> 00:11:18.000 not, I don't know. But distributors calling the CEO and thanking them for 153 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:22.440 elevating the entire category. Like there's just some really cool things I think that 154 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:33.629 happened with television that might not happen with other channels. Marketing architect introduces TV 155 00:11:33.789 --> 00:11:39.190 advertising blueprints, a podcast where we draw on our experience and gather insights from 156 00:11:39.230 --> 00:11:43.830 other marketing experts. To lay out winning plans for success. There's still a 157 00:11:45.029 --> 00:11:48.419 ton of power and TV advertising even in the digital age. Don't believe me, 158 00:11:48.820 --> 00:11:54.740 here it for yourself. Medi impact our business is really I mean it's 159 00:11:54.820 --> 00:11:58.299 really been tremendous. It's really hard to overstate the impact is have in the 160 00:11:58.299 --> 00:12:01.970 business. TV's the biggest megaphone out there and to be able to not only 161 00:12:03.090 --> 00:12:05.409 play in that, in that space and in that media, but also to 162 00:12:05.490 --> 00:12:09.250 be able to measure it to optimize it has really been game changing. It's 163 00:12:09.289 --> 00:12:13.090 definitely, you know, obviously accelerated our growth and helped us really connect with 164 00:12:13.610 --> 00:12:18.799 and reach consumers we just we can't reach effectively, know, through purely online 165 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:22.440 media. So, like I say, very, very difficult overstate the impact 166 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:28.480 that it's had on our our ability to grow and reach those consumers. For 167 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:33.470 more subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. While there's some really 168 00:12:33.509 --> 00:12:37.070 cool things, I would assume there's also probably more pushback in certain aspects. 169 00:12:37.190 --> 00:12:41.509 So what do you feel as some of those, like the pushback that you 170 00:12:41.629 --> 00:12:45.779 receive that you would maybe even say it can easily be overcome, but it's 171 00:12:45.779 --> 00:12:48.580 some of those recurring things that do like. Well, I don't know about 172 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:52.940 this. When it comes to TV, TV is an emotional channel in a 173 00:12:54.059 --> 00:12:56.500 couple of ways. Number one, it can can drive emotion, but I 174 00:12:56.659 --> 00:13:01.450 think when you're going to put your brand on television there's a heightened level of 175 00:13:03.169 --> 00:13:07.009 this is my baby, and so what is that message? It was one 176 00:13:07.090 --> 00:13:09.529 thing that I was actually going to bring up at some point, if it 177 00:13:09.649 --> 00:13:16.080 made sense, during this conversation. But I feel like be tob marketer specifically 178 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:22.360 have a harder go than a DTC marketer. I think that ninety five percent 179 00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:26.600 of a bed best target audience is out of market for your product at any 180 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:31.909 given time. So you're trying to build kind of mental availability with those potential 181 00:13:33.389 --> 00:13:37.590 businesses that are hopefully future customers for you, but they are not yet ready 182 00:13:37.750 --> 00:13:41.779 to be purchasing your product or service, and so you're trying to speak to 183 00:13:41.820 --> 00:13:46.580 the five percent and also build awareness with that ninety five percent. In in 184 00:13:46.659 --> 00:13:50.820 order to do that, you know a very practical cell that talks about your 185 00:13:52.259 --> 00:13:56.169 this is what my business can do for you. It's features and benefits based 186 00:13:56.690 --> 00:14:01.169 feels like a smart thing, and yet is it going to be memorable? 187 00:14:01.850 --> 00:14:07.889 That's why you see a lot of businesses that will leverage the use of character 188 00:14:07.289 --> 00:14:11.879 and they're just really mindful about like these distinctive brand assets that can kind of 189 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:16.759 imprint within a consumer's mind so that they can be remembered from four years to 190 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.720 come. But that can be kind of out there right. So if you 191 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.309 think about, yeah, the the CML or in sometimes even the executive team 192 00:14:24.389 --> 00:14:30.350 needing to kind of sign off on final execution of a television add it's like 193 00:14:30.590 --> 00:14:33.190 wow, is that what we're is that where we're going to go do? 194 00:14:33.909 --> 00:14:37.309 But like I think of the the commercials that we sit around and talk about. 195 00:14:37.669 --> 00:14:41.379 From a D Toc Sam Point, I would like progressives. You know, 196 00:14:41.580 --> 00:14:46.340 they're their whole campaign around we can't protect you from becoming your parents, 197 00:14:46.419 --> 00:14:50.419 but we can protect your home and audio, Otto, not audio. Yeah, 198 00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:54.129 I'm literally I can like I can see the commercial in my head right 199 00:14:54.169 --> 00:14:58.330 now. Totally, totally. Yeah, and I think from a Bob standpoint, 200 00:15:00.210 --> 00:15:05.049 someone that I think is doing a great job would be adobe marketing cloud. 201 00:15:05.210 --> 00:15:07.320 I don't know if he's seen this or not, but you know, 202 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:11.399 I find myself drawn to is kind of the story of what might have happened. 203 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:15.919 How do you not had the product or service? So it is storytelling, 204 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:18.919 but I think it drives the point home. But often they're kind of 205 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:22.990 funny and memorable to so this the spot starts with like the big WIG and 206 00:15:22.070 --> 00:15:26.870 this corporate office and one of the employees runs in and prompts them to check 207 00:15:26.909 --> 00:15:30.669 the sales report and his eyes get really big and he makes a call down 208 00:15:30.750 --> 00:15:35.190 to production and as like war back baby, and I think they're making like 209 00:15:35.629 --> 00:15:39.419 books or encyclopedias or something like that. And so the production runs out of 210 00:15:39.460 --> 00:15:43.259 paper and they call the paper manufacture and they're cutting down trees and the wood 211 00:15:43.379 --> 00:15:46.539 pulp stock sky rockets and stuff, and what they find out at the end 212 00:15:46.700 --> 00:15:50.570 of the spot is that there's like this baby that's like repeatedly clicking a display 213 00:15:50.610 --> 00:15:56.570 out over and over and over, and of course it's make. And so 214 00:15:56.690 --> 00:15:58.809 the whole idea as like do you really know how your marketing is performing? 215 00:16:00.009 --> 00:16:03.610 But yeah, it's a it's a, it's a I know, I know, 216 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:08.600 but it's it's a fun little challenge. You see, sales force created 217 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:12.519 their new character, the little cartoon guy. Yep, I think it's Astros 218 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:17.159 is name. Sales forces all over adds, TV, ADDS. Right now 219 00:16:17.320 --> 00:16:21.269 slack is getting into TV minding, which I think is an interesting play. 220 00:16:22.070 --> 00:16:26.590 I think there's so many bb marketers that have maybe had a little bit of 221 00:16:26.629 --> 00:16:30.029 an Aha these last couple of years, because I know we've heard that too, 222 00:16:30.149 --> 00:16:34.059 in terms of like can can television really work for BETB? I mean 223 00:16:34.179 --> 00:16:38.460 just feels like I really need to hyper target. And of course we under 224 00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:42.419 we all understand why that why that might be. But you've got this idea 225 00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:49.210 to of does reach play well in the B Tob Space? I know you've 226 00:16:49.409 --> 00:16:53.409 talked about this on a couple of your other podcast to that there's an average 227 00:16:53.409 --> 00:16:57.889 of twelve influencers for a BEDB decision. So yeah, reach makes sense. 228 00:16:59.330 --> 00:17:03.519 So yeah, it's fun to try to, you know, uncover what that 229 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:11.599 right story is and ensure that the ad makes sense enough to that consumer that 230 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:14.000 might actually be in market that you're like, I you want to, you 231 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:15.950 want to tip them over into your bucket if they're already there. But then 232 00:17:15.950 --> 00:17:21.589 also how can it be memorable enough so that when they get there they think 233 00:17:21.630 --> 00:17:25.750 of you? And you see a lot of like re targeting those like TV 234 00:17:25.910 --> 00:17:27.869 ads, because I would think like before youtube videos, there some ways to 235 00:17:29.269 --> 00:17:32.940 use that same kind of commercial, that same add in the digital space as 236 00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:37.099 well. So how do you see that being used in creative ways to kind 237 00:17:37.099 --> 00:17:41.220 of leverage it in multiple channels? Yeah, absolutely, I mean at all. 238 00:17:41.259 --> 00:17:44.059 I think comes back to what we were talking about before in terms of 239 00:17:44.140 --> 00:17:48.130 just understanding your consumers journey and there may be a consumption. We are big 240 00:17:48.210 --> 00:17:52.210 proponents, as good marketers would be, of, you know, Cross Channel 241 00:17:52.250 --> 00:17:57.250 Integration and making sure that you've got one like synergistic story. If someone's come 242 00:17:57.289 --> 00:18:02.079 out to your website and poked around, there is a big opportunity there. 243 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:06.119 So there's a lot of there's a lot of retargeting opportunity. There are a 244 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:10.200 lot of ways for you to grab, you know, them on a first 245 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:12.950 party basis to if you can capture their email address and starts, you know, 246 00:18:14.029 --> 00:18:17.230 a drip campaign to them. That makes sense. But even beyond that 247 00:18:17.470 --> 00:18:22.430 through streaming, there's ways to use retargeting, obviously display. So those are 248 00:18:22.509 --> 00:18:26.670 definite, like kind of no brainer things that should be happening. HMM. 249 00:18:26.299 --> 00:18:33.259 So you say business impact the cloud of TV. What are maybe some questions 250 00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:37.859 that we would be asking, or should be asking when we're considering if TV 251 00:18:37.099 --> 00:18:41.529 is is right for us? Beyond obviously you got to be in the budget 252 00:18:41.569 --> 00:18:44.130 for it. That's something you mentioned earlier. Any other questions, you would 253 00:18:44.130 --> 00:18:48.970 say we should be asking ourselves? Well, I think that definitely understanding where 254 00:18:49.049 --> 00:18:53.769 you're at in terms of your industry and your competition. So if you can 255 00:18:53.809 --> 00:18:59.880 be first to market and TV in your category, amazing right, but you 256 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:03.279 do need to be ready for it. It's not not not everyone can just 257 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:06.079 go all right, I'm in, let's do this. You need for sure 258 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:08.839 need to make sure that your business is is ready for it because, if 259 00:19:10.349 --> 00:19:14.269 done right, it's going to kind of, quote unquote, give you good 260 00:19:14.349 --> 00:19:18.789 problems to solve. We've had companies come to us that have been in business 261 00:19:18.950 --> 00:19:23.299 for almost a hundred years, ninety years, and turn television on and saw 262 00:19:23.420 --> 00:19:27.819 two hundred and fifty percent growth in their new customer acquisition. So wow, 263 00:19:29.059 --> 00:19:32.500 like after being in business. That is one thing to do that with a 264 00:19:32.579 --> 00:19:36.500 company that's like four years old because they just haven't gotten started yet, but 265 00:19:37.140 --> 00:19:41.009 to do that with companies that are that established in their marketing practices and have 266 00:19:41.130 --> 00:19:45.210 already built a really wide base of customers, you're going to have to be 267 00:19:45.410 --> 00:19:52.490 ready to support that and so thinking through all the good problems to solve is 268 00:19:52.569 --> 00:19:56.279 really important and of course, you know, we would help guide kind of 269 00:19:56.359 --> 00:20:00.960 what scale could look like how quickly that would need to happen. But good 270 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:06.599 things are going to happen with with new reach and with typically, what we 271 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.269 see to with TV is that TV consumers convert better, number one, but 272 00:20:11.349 --> 00:20:17.789 then they're also longer and higher lifetime value for those customers too. So the 273 00:20:18.069 --> 00:20:22.579 the those or those are the good surprises that clients find when they're looking for 274 00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:26.299 new customers through television. So I imagine there's people listening that are not going 275 00:20:26.339 --> 00:20:30.339 to be in the market right to jump into TV right now, but we 276 00:20:30.460 --> 00:20:34.460 mentioned top of funnel marketing. It's something that I think we need at least 277 00:20:34.460 --> 00:20:38.650 be considering in some way, at least getting our message out into the world. 278 00:20:40.410 --> 00:20:42.849 More people knowing about your product, even if they're not quite ready to 279 00:20:42.890 --> 00:20:45.569 buy, is not a bad thing. They need to know about you before 280 00:20:45.569 --> 00:20:48.410 they actually buy from you. So talk a little bit about what do you 281 00:20:48.490 --> 00:20:52.880 see the lessons you guys are learning and TV that maybe we could take away 282 00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:56.640 outside of just TV, anything that you'd have for us there to be considering? 283 00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:00.960 Well, I think one one thing that comes to mind would be that 284 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:08.069 we acquire TV media a lot differently through our AI platform and that brings extreme 285 00:21:08.190 --> 00:21:14.190 efficiencies, especially in the linear side of things, and that, whether you 286 00:21:14.309 --> 00:21:17.950 can do TV or not, like set that aside. You need to be 287 00:21:18.269 --> 00:21:22.299 building awareness with your future customers. So if it's not television, then what 288 00:21:22.460 --> 00:21:27.339 top of funnel tactics can you work into your strategy so that you were playing 289 00:21:27.380 --> 00:21:32.220 the long game even without television? And when you're thinking about those channels, 290 00:21:32.819 --> 00:21:38.690 interrogate everything. Don't assume necessarily that. I would say going going rate costs 291 00:21:40.410 --> 00:21:45.730 need to be absorbed. You should be able to find efficiency is test and 292 00:21:45.849 --> 00:21:49.599 retest. Don't assume that if you've tested something and it didn't work, that 293 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:53.240 it's quote unquote and Dad. Like we talked about before, there are ways 294 00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:57.720 to kind of crack the code and and have some contrarian thinking to marketing. 295 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:02.950 That, I think, a lot of times holds holds marketers back. You 296 00:22:03.029 --> 00:22:08.309 know they're they're going about any channel the traditional way and if you really dig 297 00:22:08.430 --> 00:22:14.990 deep, explore, wander around, you know looking for inspiration from other marketers, 298 00:22:15.069 --> 00:22:18.660 whether they be in your own category, you're get outside, you can 299 00:22:18.819 --> 00:22:23.500 find new avenues to explore and I think bring contrarian thinking to the strategy. 300 00:22:25.059 --> 00:22:27.900 It's interesting. I well, first off, obviously I totally agree with what 301 00:22:29.019 --> 00:22:33.609 you're saying there. I an email and direct mail. The resurgence in those 302 00:22:33.730 --> 00:22:38.769 spaces is so fun to watch, honestly, because there was clearly a dead 303 00:22:38.809 --> 00:22:44.680 period where email was like out and now I look at the emails. I 304 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:48.720 was thinking about it today, like I'm subscribed to several email things that are 305 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:52.640 clearly marketing at me, but they're also adding immense value to my life every 306 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.759 day, whether it's with a list or they're putting a bunch of information in 307 00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:00.190 there that I don't have the time or energy to go find myself. And 308 00:23:00.269 --> 00:23:03.109 then with direct mail, it needs to be done right, because I do 309 00:23:03.269 --> 00:23:06.549 throw away a lot of mail, but I will say it is a way 310 00:23:06.589 --> 00:23:08.829 of getting in front of people that a lot have forgotten about and when you 311 00:23:08.869 --> 00:23:15.900 do it correctly, can be done and to see amazing value and you find 312 00:23:15.940 --> 00:23:18.900 amazing value there. So there is a it's all about strategy right and intent 313 00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:22.980 and if you know it and you have a good strategy and you execute on 314 00:23:22.059 --> 00:23:27.890 it, really any medium can work. Absolutely it's all about tests and refine 315 00:23:29.009 --> 00:23:32.890 and test and refine, and I mean to me, the channels that are 316 00:23:33.130 --> 00:23:37.329 most intrigued in are those that aren't being used heavily by other marketers. Right 317 00:23:37.490 --> 00:23:41.640 that, in theory, if there's media consumption there there's an opportunity. If 318 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:45.640 you've got a if you got audience and impressions happening, and yet you don't 319 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:49.920 see your your competitors in that space, that's just a ripe opportunity for you 320 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:55.750 to set yourself apart, you know from what they're doing and and to find 321 00:23:55.829 --> 00:24:00.750 yourself away to get in front of them. That's just goes solely against the 322 00:24:00.349 --> 00:24:04.829 distraction issues that we have as consumers today. There's just so much put in 323 00:24:04.910 --> 00:24:10.500 front of us, so another display out is just not as exciting as like, 324 00:24:10.700 --> 00:24:11.660 to your point, direct mail and all, we've had a lot of 325 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:15.140 success with direct mail to as a business, so I definitely act all that 326 00:24:15.940 --> 00:24:19.579 well. Well, I'm taking away several things from from this conversation. I 327 00:24:19.740 --> 00:24:23.890 love the idea and and stand behind it fully, that no channel, no 328 00:24:25.009 --> 00:24:29.410 marketing channel, is dead. It just it's literally about understanding why you're doing 329 00:24:29.529 --> 00:24:32.529 what you're doing and not throwing money at something because other people are doing it. 330 00:24:33.009 --> 00:24:34.450 You got to build awareness. So you got to be thinking a top 331 00:24:34.490 --> 00:24:38.440 of funnel at all times like that's something is marketers that we are responsible for 332 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:42.319 top of funnel matters and test and refine. I love that you said that. 333 00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:47.200 I think that brings it to a head. We have to constantly test 334 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:51.119 and refine, and so thanks for spending some time here with us, Angela. 335 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:52.670 For those that want to connect with you further and what you guys are 336 00:24:52.710 --> 00:24:56.789 doing, how can people reach out? Oh absolutely, I mean my email 337 00:24:56.789 --> 00:25:02.869 address is on o our website. Happy to connect via Linkedin. Those are 338 00:25:02.990 --> 00:25:06.309 two great ways to get ahold me perfect. I will make sure we put 339 00:25:06.349 --> 00:25:10.299 your linkedin in our episode description as well, so you guys can connect with 340 00:25:10.380 --> 00:25:12.339 her over there. You can connect with me on Linkedin as well. Just 341 00:25:12.420 --> 00:25:18.220 Search Benjie Block and we're always having these types of insightful conversations here on BB 342 00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:22.009 growth. Were excited about what's happening here in the New Year and thanks for 343 00:25:22.130 --> 00:25:26.650 taking time to listen to this episode. Today. We will be back with 344 00:25:26.769 --> 00:25:33.650 another episode of B Tob Growth. Thanks for listening. One of the things 345 00:25:33.690 --> 00:25:37.480 we've learned about podcast audience growth is that word of mouth works. It works 346 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.640 really, really well actually, so if you love this show, would be 347 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.240 awesome if you texted a friend to tell them about it, and if you 348 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:48.599 send me a text with a screenshot of the text you sent to your friend, 349 00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:52.069 Meta, I know I'll send you a copy of my book, content 350 00:25:52.150 --> 00:25:56.269 based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know myself phone 351 00:25:56.269 --> 00:26:00.470 numbers four hundred seven, four nine, hundred three, D and thirty two 352 00:26:00.549 --> 00:26:00.789 eight. Happy texting.