#Revenue 9: What Revenue Leaders Can Learn from Community w/ Sam Jacobs

WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:09.630 The big thing that happened over the last ten years for me is that as 2 00:00:09.669 --> 00:00:14.949 I became more senior and thought that becoming more senior meant kind of better certainty 3 00:00:15.109 --> 00:00:19.829 on my life and more confidence around success, that was the opposite of what 4 00:00:19.910 --> 00:00:26.019 happened. Welcome to the Revenue Series on bead be growth. I am your 5 00:00:26.140 --> 00:00:30.460 host, John Grispin. I'm founder and sales coach at early revenue. So 6 00:00:30.579 --> 00:00:36.369 let's get going. Today I am very honored to have with me Sam Jacobs. 7 00:00:36.490 --> 00:00:42.289 He is the founder and CEO of revenue collective and he's also the host 8 00:00:42.490 --> 00:00:46.369 of the sales hacker podcast. So welcome Sam. Thank you, John. 9 00:00:46.490 --> 00:00:50.119 Happy to be here so at a level set for everyone. So our guests 10 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:55.560 are our CEOS, revenue leaders and venture firms, and our purpose is to 11 00:00:55.640 --> 00:01:00.719 provide early stage tech founders and their sales leaders insights and best practices on two 12 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:07.349 topics that are top of mine for all leaders, right how to grow early 13 00:01:07.390 --> 00:01:11.349 stage sales and fundraising. So, Sam, thanks again for being here. 14 00:01:11.390 --> 00:01:15.189 Why don't we start off with just you have such an interesting background. Tell 15 00:01:15.189 --> 00:01:19.260 us a little bit about yourself. Okay, my name is Sam. I 16 00:01:19.659 --> 00:01:25.700 live in New York. I grew up overseas. My parents were in the 17 00:01:25.739 --> 00:01:29.540 foreign service us, but home base was always kind of northern Virginia, Washington 18 00:01:29.579 --> 00:01:34.849 DC area. And then beginning, I graduated from Undergrad in one thousand nine 19 00:01:34.849 --> 00:01:38.530 hundred and ninety nine and off and on have lived in New York since and 20 00:01:38.969 --> 00:01:45.930 my early career was in finance and then running a failed record label and and 21 00:01:46.409 --> 00:01:49.439 then after that my real career in kind of higro start up land. Got 22 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:53.480 Got started in two thousand and three when I joined a company called Gerson Larman 23 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:57.040 Group, and that company was doing about twenty five million and revenue when I 24 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:00.829 joined and when I left seven and a half years later, they were doing 25 00:02:00.909 --> 00:02:07.150 just shy of three hundred million in recurring revenue subscription anue. And this year, 26 00:02:07.870 --> 00:02:09.030 you know, they don't it's a private company still, but I think 27 00:02:09.069 --> 00:02:14.030 they'll do close to seven hundred million in total revenue. So that was a 28 00:02:14.110 --> 00:02:17.900 great success story. And then after Gelg I essentially held kind of chief from 29 00:02:17.979 --> 00:02:23.860 new officer style rolls for the next eight years and and then during that time 30 00:02:23.900 --> 00:02:29.060 I started a thing called the New York revenue collective, really as a way 31 00:02:29.300 --> 00:02:34.770 to bring my friends together, to share best practices, to commiserate, to 32 00:02:35.370 --> 00:02:39.530 have some drinks and have some group therapy. And I started working on revenue 33 00:02:39.569 --> 00:02:44.400 collective full time at the end of two thousand and eighteen and now that's what 34 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:49.960 I do. And we're a community of roughly three thousand sales marketing, customers 35 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:53.560 success executives all over the world, really all over the world. It's just 36 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:59.750 incredible some of the places where people are attaching themselves to the vision and the 37 00:02:59.789 --> 00:03:05.189 mission that we have and and we're growing and we have aspirations to grow much 38 00:03:05.189 --> 00:03:12.900 larger and really to be a different kind of professional networking platform, a new 39 00:03:12.939 --> 00:03:19.139 kind that is more focused on the people that are members as members, not 40 00:03:19.259 --> 00:03:23.460 as quote unquote users, but as members, and really serving the constituents of 41 00:03:23.500 --> 00:03:28.370 the community in any way that they need to help them unlock and achieve their 42 00:03:28.449 --> 00:03:30.449 professional potential, to help help them get wherever it does they want to go 43 00:03:30.530 --> 00:03:34.210 in life. We want to help them get there. So when was revnd 44 00:03:34.210 --> 00:03:38.169 collective originally founded? Them you would you say the first kind of Sushi dinners 45 00:03:38.210 --> 00:03:39.930 we had with a bunch of SMB sales leaders were in two thousand and thirteen, 46 00:03:40.169 --> 00:03:45.800 so seven years ago. Seven and then we would email each other and 47 00:03:45.879 --> 00:03:49.919 then I created a listser of in Google groups in two thousand and sixteen and 48 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:53.159 gave it a name. So when you when you look on Linkedin, it'll 49 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:55.189 say two thousand and sixteen. So yeah, that's one. So it's so 50 00:03:55.669 --> 00:04:00.069 awesome that you created you had this area of expertise and so it was also 51 00:04:00.150 --> 00:04:05.189 part of your personal journey. They had there was interest from others to comserrate 52 00:04:05.310 --> 00:04:11.939 and talk about interesting topics, and you've turned that into a real business, 53 00:04:12.020 --> 00:04:15.060 a business that is thriving, that is serving, that is growing. That 54 00:04:15.180 --> 00:04:19.779 has to be one of one of the great accomplishments that you've at. Yes, 55 00:04:20.019 --> 00:04:25.329 it is. It is the the greatest accomplishment professionally. It is. 56 00:04:26.329 --> 00:04:30.769 It's a very special feeling, you know, the only feeling daily gratitude. 57 00:04:30.769 --> 00:04:33.970 I mean, I'm just I feel blessed and fortunate. Even though I've gone 58 00:04:34.009 --> 00:04:38.129 through a lot of difficult things in my career, I've found the thing. 59 00:04:38.170 --> 00:04:40.720 I found my thing. You know, a lot of people go their whole 60 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:43.360 lives without finding their thing, a thing that is that really could be my 61 00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:47.040 life's work and it's the business of revenue. Collective is about serving and helping 62 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:51.870 other people, literally, not figuratively. So it's quite fulfilling. It it's 63 00:04:51.910 --> 00:04:57.750 a it's yeah, it's an amazing experience. Well, so full disclosure. 64 00:04:57.870 --> 00:05:00.110 I am a member. I have been a member for over a year, 65 00:05:00.149 --> 00:05:04.870 almost a year in half now, and love participating and what I love about 66 00:05:05.430 --> 00:05:09.420 the community. And there are lots of different ways from engage. So you 67 00:05:09.459 --> 00:05:15.939 might even share with the audience how people do engage and the size of the 68 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:18.740 organization, how it's grown. What I love about it it is it is 69 00:05:18.779 --> 00:05:25.529 a judgment free zone and and my ability to pay for that as a subscription 70 00:05:26.290 --> 00:05:30.250 is the the benefits far outweigh any investment that you make. But up just 71 00:05:31.209 --> 00:05:36.000 share shared, the size and the scope of what is involved when one gets 72 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:40.040 involved. reven collected. Yeah, well, as I mentioned, we're about 73 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:43.639 three thousand members and just to give you a sense for you know, growth, 74 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:48.399 we were about eight hundred at the beginning of the year and so we've, 75 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:50.670 you know, grown about three and a half X. will end the 76 00:05:50.709 --> 00:05:54.910 year about four thousand members. And in terms of you know what it is. 77 00:05:54.990 --> 00:05:58.149 How do you do it? There's we call these the five pillars. 78 00:05:58.189 --> 00:06:00.870 That's sort of how you engage with the community. The first is real time 79 00:06:01.149 --> 00:06:04.939 Qa questions and answers twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, 80 00:06:04.939 --> 00:06:09.860 and that's that's currently through slack, although likely will not permanently be so. 81 00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:15.980 The second is group meetings, you know, meetups, people of common purpose 82 00:06:15.220 --> 00:06:19.209 getting together, and that can be based on geography, although St Louis is 83 00:06:19.290 --> 00:06:23.449 still a smaller community, John. But but you know, if you live 84 00:06:23.449 --> 00:06:26.370 in a city and you get together with people in that city, then is 85 00:06:26.449 --> 00:06:30.490 by function. So you know, cross a private community, see a most 86 00:06:30.490 --> 00:06:33.600 chief marketing officers, so you can find those people or or identity. So 87 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:36.839 we have we're very focused on clusivity and diversity, and so you know there's 88 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:42.319 a revend collective of color subcommunity, there's a lgbtq plus community. So however 89 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:45.920 you identify. The second way that people interact us through groups. The third 90 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:50.629 is oneonone. So we make matches between people that have needs. That can 91 00:06:50.629 --> 00:06:54.910 be a mentormented relationship. That can be, Hey, I need to I 92 00:06:55.029 --> 00:06:57.670 need to talk to a coach to help me evaluate a job offer. It 93 00:06:57.790 --> 00:07:00.870 can be any kind of want. It can be I'm in the same city 94 00:07:00.910 --> 00:07:02.459 as you and I'm allowed to travel and I'd like to meet up with somebody 95 00:07:02.500 --> 00:07:05.540 for coffee, any kind of one on one connection based on shared goals and 96 00:07:05.660 --> 00:07:12.180 interests. We facilitate those. The fourth is data and research. We levery 97 00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:15.459 to the size of our community and this week or next week we're going to 98 00:07:15.459 --> 00:07:18.730 be launching this year's compensation study and it's you know, this is the beauty 99 00:07:18.730 --> 00:07:21.569 of size, because the first time we did this, I think a year 100 00:07:21.610 --> 00:07:26.050 ago, we had five hundred people and now we have three thousand. And 101 00:07:26.209 --> 00:07:28.649 so when we ask what do you make, and where do you live and 102 00:07:29.610 --> 00:07:31.279 how long you've been doing it and and did you get this term or that 103 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.279 term, it has more resonance now because we're going to have a better sample 104 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:38.879 size and we regularly do that for our membership so that it's not just anecdotal 105 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:42.240 information that you're making decisions on. It's it's, you know, useful quantitative 106 00:07:42.279 --> 00:07:45.829 information. And then the final piece that we believe really strongly, I believe 107 00:07:45.829 --> 00:07:47.589 really strongly, is that, again, like the whole thing is, and 108 00:07:47.709 --> 00:07:53.069 I can you know the thing I'm on right now is just reinventing social media. 109 00:07:53.149 --> 00:07:56.509 I guess, reinventing, you know, whatever it means to convene with 110 00:07:56.589 --> 00:08:00.379 a group online, but I just don't want to have people that ever feel 111 00:08:00.500 --> 00:08:03.180 like an now, you know, a data point into my algorithm. I 112 00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:05.579 don't want people to feel like quote unquote users, I want them to feel 113 00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:09.060 like members, and so we invest in a member success team. We have 114 00:08:09.139 --> 00:08:11.930 a team of people that is now three, that's growing to four on October 115 00:08:13.050 --> 00:08:16.410 five and will continue to grow, and those people are there to help you 116 00:08:16.009 --> 00:08:20.089 when none of the stuff that we've built, you know, when you just 117 00:08:20.209 --> 00:08:22.490 can't find the answer to the question, you need some help, you need 118 00:08:22.529 --> 00:08:26.329 someone to ask and there's human beings on the other line to help you navigate 119 00:08:26.129 --> 00:08:31.399 the complexity and the and the challenges of Your Life and get answers to questions. 120 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:33.639 So so you you probably taken that's probably one of the reasons why you 121 00:08:33.799 --> 00:08:37.519 created to begin with. You've got all these different roles, from the news 122 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:41.269 to live stream to actually all these different experiences that have you taken from those 123 00:08:41.269 --> 00:08:48.789 experiences and built what you feel is a great support mechanism as you talked to 124 00:08:48.870 --> 00:08:54.350 and engage with members. Yeah, the origin story and you know the Razin 125 00:08:54.429 --> 00:08:56.419 Dotra. I don't even want to pronounce that, but you know that. 126 00:08:56.539 --> 00:09:01.940 The reason we exist is because of my experiences and and and me realizing that 127 00:09:03.019 --> 00:09:05.940 my experiences weren't quite as unique as I thought they were. The big thing 128 00:09:05.980 --> 00:09:09.409 that happened over the last ten years for me is that as I became more 129 00:09:09.490 --> 00:09:15.970 senior and thought that becoming more senior meant kind of better certainty on my life 130 00:09:16.529 --> 00:09:20.529 and more confidence around success, that was the opposite of what happened. As 131 00:09:20.570 --> 00:09:24.799 I became more senior, my job became more precarious, it became shorter. 132 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.080 You know, I worked at GELG for seven and a half years, I 133 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:30.600 worked at axeal for four and a half years, I worked at live stream 134 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:33.519 for eighteen months, the mews for nine months, behaviors for ten months. 135 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:37.360 That was a problem. It's a problem for for me, it was a 136 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:43.110 problem for my wife's problem for my family and I wasn't getting where I wanted 137 00:09:43.149 --> 00:09:48.789 to go. And so I created revenue collective both to help me and people 138 00:09:48.870 --> 00:09:52.139 like me and you, John, and anybody be better at their jobs so 139 00:09:52.340 --> 00:09:56.820 that we can extend that tenure so that as a new situation comes up, 140 00:09:56.259 --> 00:09:58.940 the company, the founder, the investor, doesn't feel like we need to 141 00:10:00.019 --> 00:10:05.019 get the person that's seen that before because this person can't adapt. Revenue Collective 142 00:10:05.019 --> 00:10:09.090 is created to supplement that so that the person can adapt, because they can 143 00:10:09.090 --> 00:10:11.210 talk to five people that have seen that situation before and they can implement the 144 00:10:11.330 --> 00:10:18.210 most relevant solution, but also so that we can change the deal, we 145 00:10:18.529 --> 00:10:22.759 can renegotiate the deal a little bit, we can change the structure. If 146 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:26.679 we're all going to work places a year and a half, and obviously I 147 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:30.879 don't think that's just specific to start ups. I don't think it's specific to 148 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:35.559 Covid I think the world is much more funeral and I think, much more 149 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:37.470 volatile and much more fluid than it's ever been, as we would all agree. 150 00:10:37.509 --> 00:10:41.070 If that's going to be the case, then there needs to be some 151 00:10:41.230 --> 00:10:48.309 kind of support mechanism for people, because the companies are very specifically and directly 152 00:10:48.429 --> 00:10:52.460 not providing that and not they have no seeming intention to provide it, which 153 00:10:52.460 --> 00:10:56.179 is not malicious, it's just reality. So that's true. Then we need 154 00:10:56.259 --> 00:11:00.740 to think about what is the terms of our employment? How should we be 155 00:11:00.899 --> 00:11:03.940 paid? Are we being paid the right way? Should it be different? 156 00:11:03.980 --> 00:11:05.250 If we're all going to work places, you're going to half. Maybe that's 157 00:11:05.250 --> 00:11:09.330 the right amount of time, but then the structure of how we're paid needs 158 00:11:09.370 --> 00:11:13.850 to change because I can go into it. But so that's why I revenue 159 00:11:13.850 --> 00:11:16.490 collective exists as because that was my experience. I kept I feel I felt 160 00:11:16.529 --> 00:11:20.240 like I was on a Merrygo around and I didn't want to be. You 161 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:20.960 know, we don't want to be on America around. You want to be 162 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:26.720 on a gradual path towards a destination. For my destination is, you know, 163 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:30.399 I want to create well so that I didn't have to be working forever 164 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:33.190 and I wanted some level of freedom, on autonomy, and I want that 165 00:11:33.269 --> 00:11:35.350 for other people as well, because that's what everybody wants. And so that's 166 00:11:35.389 --> 00:11:39.389 why, that's why we're doing what we're doing. So and I've been part 167 00:11:39.389 --> 00:11:41.269 of the journey for a very small time, year, year and a half 168 00:11:43.029 --> 00:11:48.100 part of the journey. Seen a lot of new tech that has been introduced 169 00:11:48.139 --> 00:11:52.299 over time and as a founder, you had to make some conscious decisions. 170 00:11:52.940 --> 00:11:56.299 What were those that contributed to the growth that have been a great asset for 171 00:11:56.460 --> 00:12:00.299 you? Well, it's it's interesting. Basically, you know, the way 172 00:12:00.299 --> 00:12:03.970 I feel about about what we're doing is is that you kind of have to 173 00:12:03.169 --> 00:12:09.690 reinvent yourself every I want to say every six months. I think the reality 174 00:12:09.809 --> 00:12:13.370 is like every three months actually, which is again to the point of your 175 00:12:13.370 --> 00:12:16.080 audience. I don't think that's different from any other company. I think that 176 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:20.639 the circumstances, the speed at which the world works, means that things that 177 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:24.639 used to take two years now take three months. So you have to be 178 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:28.360 willing to adapt to those circumstances. So, you know, at first it 179 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:33.909 was just an email distribution and a bunch of dinners and then it became slack. 180 00:12:35.429 --> 00:12:41.870 Slack really took off last year, two thousand and Nineteen, and slack 181 00:12:41.990 --> 00:12:43.779 has been a pretty powerful acceler and of what we're doing. Just because it's 182 00:12:43.779 --> 00:12:48.059 an it's the best way. It's not, it's not amazing, but it 183 00:12:48.220 --> 00:12:52.740 is currently the best way that we have to help people find common themes and 184 00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:56.899 topics and to engage in the right way with each other. So that was 185 00:12:56.980 --> 00:13:00.889 one innovation. I think that innovation is, you know, in the third 186 00:13:00.929 --> 00:13:03.169 quarter of its utility. It's not on the fourth quarter. But I think 187 00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:07.529 again we're in a period where we need to reinvent once again, and the 188 00:13:07.649 --> 00:13:11.730 most recent reinvention obviously happened during covid because, you know, people used to 189 00:13:11.769 --> 00:13:16.919 join reven collective and think of it as a Dinner Club plus slack, and 190 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:18.480 that doesn't work when you're not allowed to meet a person and it wouldn't work 191 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.320 for you, John, because you're not anywhere that we would have a dinner 192 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:28.870 anytime soon. And so we lean very aggressively into digital events and basically saying 193 00:13:28.629 --> 00:13:31.990 how do we have how do we make it the end, the vision was 194 00:13:33.070 --> 00:13:37.029 like ESPN. You know where there's espn one and two, and you know 195 00:13:37.230 --> 00:13:41.230 college espn. How do we create so many options for people that everybody can 196 00:13:41.230 --> 00:13:43.179 find what they what they need and what they want? You know, if 197 00:13:43.220 --> 00:13:46.620 you're marketer, there's marketing events of their salesperson, their sales sales events, 198 00:13:46.659 --> 00:13:50.860 if there's if you're a person of color and want to find similar people than 199 00:13:50.899 --> 00:13:54.419 you join our COOC. So that's been this year. This year is about 200 00:13:54.419 --> 00:13:58.129 creating a framework for letting our members create and host virtual events and events in 201 00:13:58.250 --> 00:14:03.450 general so that so that people can find your tribe, they can find the 202 00:14:03.529 --> 00:14:07.730 communities within reven neglective that are most resonant. We hosted over thirty events, 203 00:14:09.330 --> 00:14:13.960 over seven hundred different registrants. You know, participated in events last week. 204 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:18.279 So I think that's the you know, that's the the most recent kind of 205 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:22.960 innovation that we've embraced and there's more to come, I'm sure. So since 206 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:26.269 covid there's there's been just a you've stepped on the gas in terms of content, 207 00:14:26.789 --> 00:14:31.309 in terms of support you. You know, you overlooked maybe the fact 208 00:14:31.350 --> 00:14:37.110 that you instantiated a survey that was literally, in the early days of Covid 209 00:14:37.269 --> 00:14:41.019 and earlier part of this year, literally a daily survey, if I'm not 210 00:14:41.259 --> 00:14:43.340 mistake, Bi weekly. But yeah, it was. I was the other 211 00:14:43.620 --> 00:14:46.740 maybe. I think the answers are yelling at you to complete the survey every 212 00:14:46.779 --> 00:14:52.730 day and and there's still information coming out literally on a daily basis to update 213 00:14:52.769 --> 00:14:58.970 everyone on the events that are occurring, what what opportunities there are and what 214 00:14:58.210 --> 00:15:01.730 conversations that you can get into to pick up things, to learn, to 215 00:15:01.769 --> 00:15:07.480 ask questions, which I think it is great. So so here's the question 216 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:13.840 for you. What resource or tool or channel are people aren't using correctly today 217 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:18.200 or to the to its fullest, whether that's in revenue collective or in general 218 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:22.110 in the in the sales or sales world. Well, I think that people, 219 00:15:22.590 --> 00:15:24.309 I don't know, I think just in general or too easily overwhelmed and 220 00:15:24.389 --> 00:15:31.309 I think. I think people need to work marginally harder at prioritization so they 221 00:15:31.350 --> 00:15:35.820 can focus on what's important and remove other distractions. Now, frankly, sometimes 222 00:15:35.860 --> 00:15:41.500 if the distraction is revenue collective itself, then fair enough, but I think 223 00:15:41.539 --> 00:15:45.460 that that's that's the just the challenge that we all face. How do you 224 00:15:45.539 --> 00:15:48.779 manage and defend your schedule and your calendar? How do you manage and defend 225 00:15:48.820 --> 00:15:52.970 your time, and how do you, you know, how do you make 226 00:15:52.009 --> 00:15:54.769 sure that every day, which is a challenge for all of us, including 227 00:15:54.809 --> 00:16:00.450 me, that you're purposeful, that you have objectives, because too many people, 228 00:16:00.490 --> 00:16:02.769 me included, you know, we wake up and turn on our email 229 00:16:02.769 --> 00:16:04.919 and you know your email is somebody else's to do list. It's right, 230 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:08.519 that's what it means, right. They are sending you messages and if you 231 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:11.559 respond to their messages, you're living against somebody else's priorities. So how do 232 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:17.600 you establish your priorities and drive those priorities forward? And that takes that takes 233 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:22.990 practice in time. Absolutely true. So one of the challenges that early stage 234 00:16:22.990 --> 00:16:26.429 founders have and even early state sales leaders. What metrics do I utilize to 235 00:16:26.870 --> 00:16:30.909 monitor my business to make sure it's healthy. What do you use today? 236 00:16:30.950 --> 00:16:34.500 What would you recommend, given that you're a founder of an organization that's growing 237 00:16:34.700 --> 00:16:40.580 and growing quite rapidly? What are you using to monitor the business? Well, 238 00:16:41.059 --> 00:16:45.139 you know, I actually do teach and talk about this at this particular 239 00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:49.129 stage quite a lot. So I think that reven collective hasn't raised an outside 240 00:16:49.169 --> 00:16:56.090 capital. So I am monitoring the cash balance of the business, checking account 241 00:16:56.850 --> 00:17:00.559 religiously and I am constantly doing cash forecasts to understand what is this month going 242 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.399 to look like? What are we going to you know, are we going 243 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:10.319 to burn capital or generate profit? We generate profit fi, but but so 244 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:14.279 cash bounds obviously the number one metric. The main thing I think people need 245 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:19.230 to understand before they move into like a more aggressive scaling mode is I think 246 00:17:19.269 --> 00:17:25.069 they need to have a better perspective on their unit economics, and that is 247 00:17:25.150 --> 00:17:30.140 what I now you. What do I mean by unit economics? And obviously 248 00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:33.339 I mean customer acquisition cost. How much you spending to acquire customers and then 249 00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:37.460 how long they stick around and how much they pay you, and I think 250 00:17:37.539 --> 00:17:41.660 that people overlook. Well, first of all, I think people lie to 251 00:17:41.660 --> 00:17:45.289 themselves about the truth of those numbers too often and then I think that they 252 00:17:45.329 --> 00:17:48.970 they just assume that revenue growth and maybe it's true. You know, I'm 253 00:17:49.009 --> 00:17:53.049 not. We're profitable and I intend to remain that way. We are growing 254 00:17:53.089 --> 00:17:57.529 adventure scale rates revenue collective, and so I you know, the the top 255 00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:00.920 line revenue number for us is total number of members, basically, and so 256 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:06.559 that's the that's the thing I also look at every single day. There's obviously 257 00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:08.960 engagement metrics that I look at every single day to understand how active the community 258 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:14.069 is and where they are leveraging value. But if I'm giving advice to early 259 00:18:14.109 --> 00:18:17.829 stage sales people are founders, and in fact I teach us rows school, 260 00:18:18.269 --> 00:18:19.430 and this is what we're going to be talking about this week, which is 261 00:18:19.990 --> 00:18:22.230 you got to understand your UN economics. And what does that again? It 262 00:18:22.230 --> 00:18:25.670 means like how much you spending to acquire customer versus, how much they pay 263 00:18:25.670 --> 00:18:30.539 you and over how long to recrup that investment. And here there's many better 264 00:18:30.579 --> 00:18:36.700 people than me that speak at this about the subject, to notably include David 265 00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:41.650 Scott for Matrix capital partners and Tom astung goose from red point. But the 266 00:18:41.730 --> 00:18:44.849 point that I would make is that too many people don't under stand that these 267 00:18:44.930 --> 00:18:48.529 numbers are not just numbers. I mean investors don't often understand because investors only 268 00:18:48.569 --> 00:18:53.089 look at businesses through spreadsheets, so they don't really understand the emotion. Or 269 00:18:53.130 --> 00:18:56.039 maybe they do the rare, it's rare, though, the emotion behind the 270 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.200 numbers. What do the numbers mean? And what I mean by that is 271 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:06.720 that too many people assume that they're ready to grow more quickly than they really 272 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:10.549 are ready to grow based on how much their customers actually like the product. 273 00:19:11.230 --> 00:19:17.309 And Unit economics are important because how do you spend a little bit of money 274 00:19:17.630 --> 00:19:18.910 like, for example, revenue collective, right, how do you know you 275 00:19:18.950 --> 00:19:22.029 have product market fit? Well, I'm not spending any money on sales and 276 00:19:22.069 --> 00:19:26.140 marketing now. I do spend some money now because I have two enrollment managers, 277 00:19:26.539 --> 00:19:30.180 but I basically we don't spend any money on marketing, we don't really 278 00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:34.660 do outbound and yet we are growing between twelve and fifteen percent every single month. 279 00:19:34.900 --> 00:19:38.009 So how does that happen? That happens because people like the thing, 280 00:19:38.289 --> 00:19:44.049 because you've discovered something that's that's very good, and so that means that are 281 00:19:44.089 --> 00:19:47.170 unit economics are quite good, because we don't spend a lot of money to 282 00:19:47.250 --> 00:19:51.690 get people and they pay us and they pay us for an extended period of 283 00:19:51.769 --> 00:19:53.000 time. To the point John, you've been a member for a year and 284 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:59.599 a half. So that's that's one area where you know it. You'll get 285 00:19:59.640 --> 00:20:03.599 some advice that says you know at the earliest stages. That doesn't make sense 286 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:06.000 because you don't. You don't have like a go to market motion that you 287 00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:10.869 can measure. I am maybe you know. That's probably true, but then 288 00:20:10.869 --> 00:20:12.549 you can look at the number of people that are referring your product. You 289 00:20:12.630 --> 00:20:15.390 got. You just got to look at what are people saying about what you've 290 00:20:15.430 --> 00:20:18.309 built and how much they like it, and you have to understand that to 291 00:20:18.390 --> 00:20:23.220 become this is my opinion and I'm and it's this is more true for a 292 00:20:23.900 --> 00:20:29.140 company focus on like SMB R mid market. It might be true that at 293 00:20:29.180 --> 00:20:33.299 the largest enterprise tech deals it actually is about, you know, pouring five 294 00:20:33.339 --> 00:20:36.769 hundred million dollars into sales and marketing like snowff like does every year. But 295 00:20:37.289 --> 00:20:41.289 for companies in the earlier stages, you just have to understand that in my 296 00:20:41.410 --> 00:20:48.009 opinion, good, good average, right passing grade, is not good enough 297 00:20:48.450 --> 00:20:52.559 to pour millions of dollars of other people's money into the business and expect it 298 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.440 to scale, because good means that there's still a significant percentage of people that 299 00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:02.039 are ambivalent and those people ultimately will cancel. They they might give your product 300 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:04.230 to try because you've pounded them over the head, but they won't stick around. 301 00:21:04.950 --> 00:21:08.549 And the biggest mistakes, and I've read written a bunch of articles about 302 00:21:08.549 --> 00:21:11.710 this and you can read one on linkedin called the wrong way to scale. 303 00:21:12.230 --> 00:21:17.630 The biggest mistake is that people raise money on good and they raise big rounds 304 00:21:17.630 --> 00:21:21.259 of investment on good and they hire a big sales team and they've never figured 305 00:21:21.339 --> 00:21:23.660 out that, first of all, the thing isn't magical and the way that 306 00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:26.940 they think it is. It was magical to early adopters, but again to 307 00:21:26.980 --> 00:21:30.619 the point of like Jeffrey Moore crossing the chasm, it's not magical to most 308 00:21:30.700 --> 00:21:34.849 people and it's not. And because of that, pouring money on the sales 309 00:21:34.890 --> 00:21:41.049 and marketing engine kind of burns through the market before before you're ready, and 310 00:21:41.130 --> 00:21:44.089 so what you end up often is you high a bunch of sales people because 311 00:21:44.089 --> 00:21:47.680 you don't also realize that marketing generates revenue, not sales or marketing generates the 312 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:49.920 pipeline which sales turns into revenue. You hire a bunch of sales people, 313 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:55.079 you've misunderstood the appetite for the product in the market and you hit this stall 314 00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:57.720 point. That's very common. It happened to me at a number of companies. 315 00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:02.109 So I was going to ask you, as it relates to early growth, 316 00:22:02.630 --> 00:22:07.069 what's something that founders, early state sales leaders, should start doing? 317 00:22:07.190 --> 00:22:10.950 I think you probably just answered that question, but you tell me. Yeah, 318 00:22:10.990 --> 00:22:14.069 I just I think, especially I think sales leaders need to do it 319 00:22:14.150 --> 00:22:15.900 so that they can keep their jobs better, because ultimately, what I think 320 00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:23.539 is that the salesperson that just accepts blindly the hockey stick refinite target, accepts 321 00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:29.460 blindly the hiring plan built by an inexperience vp of finance that builds the revenue 322 00:22:29.460 --> 00:22:33.289 model based on you know, the easiest way to build a revenue model is 323 00:22:33.410 --> 00:22:37.089 to say that each rep equals this much money and if I hire this many 324 00:22:37.130 --> 00:22:38.450 people, this is how much money I will make. And that is actually 325 00:22:38.490 --> 00:22:41.730 not how money is made in the world. And you know, I appreciate 326 00:22:41.809 --> 00:22:45.160 that. They like they'll add in a bunch of factors. that a that 327 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:49.480 give it the appearance of sophistication, like are, you know, rep attrition 328 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:53.680 rate and quote attainment rate. But fundamentally, fundamentally, most v piece of 329 00:22:53.720 --> 00:22:57.589 finance are going to hand you an excel spreadsheet that has the number of wraps 330 00:22:57.670 --> 00:23:00.269 as the thing that gets you to where you want to go at the end 331 00:23:00.269 --> 00:23:03.230 of the year. And if you don't understand then that that's not how money 332 00:23:03.309 --> 00:23:07.430 is made, then you will get fired, and that's because you'll be a 333 00:23:07.509 --> 00:23:10.549 bad story to capital because you hire all these people, you'll massively increase burn. 334 00:23:11.109 --> 00:23:14.140 The people will will not be hitting their numbers. You will not look 335 00:23:14.140 --> 00:23:17.220 like a you know, an inspirational leader or the right person. It's all 336 00:23:17.220 --> 00:23:22.059 because, fundamentally, the business wasn't yet ready and hadn't demonstrated excellence at the 337 00:23:22.180 --> 00:23:26.980 skills that are prior to hiring a ton of reps. the problem with venture 338 00:23:26.019 --> 00:23:29.650 capital is, you know, is to a hammer, everything looks like a 339 00:23:29.730 --> 00:23:33.130 nail. And, as Josh Coppleman said, you know it's jet fuel, 340 00:23:33.289 --> 00:23:36.849 but jet fuel on a go cart will run the go cart into the wall. 341 00:23:37.450 --> 00:23:40.730 So well with the jet engine. I mean just by maybe it is, 342 00:23:40.849 --> 00:23:44.119 burn it if it's now. Anyway, my point is like, I 343 00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:48.920 believe that venture capital is a good tool, but there's a natural rate of 344 00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:53.119 growth that the market and then business will tell you, and capital can sometimes 345 00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:57.750 change that rate of growth, and it can do that, but it often 346 00:23:59.109 --> 00:24:03.869 might not. And so you have to understand what is the market want from 347 00:24:03.230 --> 00:24:06.630 from your product. You don't exist in a vacuum. And if you can, 348 00:24:06.869 --> 00:24:10.500 if you can be a bit more patient about obsessing about your customers and 349 00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:15.019 really building something that is differentiated and unique, and you can have a model 350 00:24:15.140 --> 00:24:21.539 of growth that reflects your confidence around your ability to build something that people love, 351 00:24:21.940 --> 00:24:25.170 then I think that you will be more successful. But the biggest problem 352 00:24:25.210 --> 00:24:29.609 comes when you lie to yourself about where you are in your product development. 353 00:24:29.650 --> 00:24:33.809 Arney, that's the biggest problem. That's a big problem. And then another 354 00:24:33.890 --> 00:24:40.160 problem is can you innovate through difficulty as you're on that ramp? And I 355 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:45.000 would add the whole struggle of of every early stage founder thinks that they have 356 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:49.559 to run towards venture capital. They just every everybody else is doing it, 357 00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:52.559 we should be doing it too, and if we're not doing it, we're 358 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.190 failing. Yeah, I think it's that's right. And they get some misconception. 359 00:24:56.950 --> 00:25:00.509 I was going to ask you about a commonly held belief, about about 360 00:25:00.509 --> 00:25:06.190 revenue leadership. What's one that you passionately disagree with? Yeah, but don't 361 00:25:06.230 --> 00:25:11.180 worry, I got this. You know. Okay, I just think I 362 00:25:11.259 --> 00:25:15.420 don't think people understand, including sales leaders. This is the problem. Here's 363 00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:18.940 a big problem and life. I don't think people really understand how money is 364 00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:23.529 made. I don't think they fundamentally, conceptually, I don't think they understand 365 00:25:23.569 --> 00:25:29.849 it and, as a consequence of the that, they here's my answer. 366 00:25:30.130 --> 00:25:33.410 How do they think it's made? You hire a talented sales leader and the 367 00:25:33.490 --> 00:25:37.839 sales leader drives money growth and we pay the sales leader a lot if they 368 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:41.200 drive that growth and a little if they don't. And if they don't, 369 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:45.240 we fire them. And really, you know, that's they are, that 370 00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:51.589 they are the hero or the villain and that. And you know sales leaders 371 00:25:51.630 --> 00:25:55.750 hear that and the companies think that sales leaders hear that and think that their 372 00:25:55.789 --> 00:25:59.349 life is intended to be like this roller coaster ride. And I'm not talking 373 00:25:59.349 --> 00:26:00.710 about a count executive, but but we know, as revenue leaders, we 374 00:26:00.829 --> 00:26:06.299 hear we get used to seeing a very large number and offer letter, even 375 00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:08.539 though deep down inside we know that they're never going to pay us that money 376 00:26:08.980 --> 00:26:12.900 because of the way that the compensation is structured. And so we're used to 377 00:26:12.940 --> 00:26:15.700 telling ourselves that we make four hundred grandy or five hundred grand a year, 378 00:26:15.700 --> 00:26:19.170 even though our base salary is two hundred grand and the two hundred that's in 379 00:26:19.210 --> 00:26:23.130 the commission is based on targets of the CFO sets in those targets inevitably are 380 00:26:23.130 --> 00:26:29.170 going to be very, very aggressive and hard to attain the whole structure. 381 00:26:29.410 --> 00:26:33.400 So then we get treated as coin operated and it's like this, meaning that 382 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:37.680 we respond only to cash incentives. We are not true stewards of the business, 383 00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:42.119 we don't really understand the business, but we are necessary evil to business 384 00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.640 growth and that is how money is made, and money is made with this 385 00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:49.750 sort of deal with the devil that you make with your revenue leadership that if 386 00:26:49.789 --> 00:26:53.309 they helping do it, then you're gonna pay them a lot of cash and 387 00:26:53.390 --> 00:26:56.950 if they don't, you're going to fire them. And that's that's the game 388 00:26:57.470 --> 00:27:00.619 and I think that that's you know, I've vial. I just don't think 389 00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:04.980 that's how it works. I don't think that's how we know that's not how 390 00:27:06.019 --> 00:27:08.500 it works. I don't I think the whole thing of like sales leaders being 391 00:27:08.539 --> 00:27:12.220 paid fifty fifty percent base fifty percent commission. I just think it's like total 392 00:27:12.259 --> 00:27:17.809 bullshit. It's total insanity. That's not you don't want somebody with WHO to 393 00:27:18.170 --> 00:27:21.930 have half their money on the come, on the on the next roll of 394 00:27:21.970 --> 00:27:25.849 the dice, on the next quarter. Like that's not you're not going to 395 00:27:26.009 --> 00:27:29.450 induce good behavior. People aren't going to make good decisions for the long term 396 00:27:29.490 --> 00:27:32.960 growth of the business that way. So we have to now this may mean, 397 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:36.000 you know, the bad news here is that you might get a lower 398 00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:40.400 number on your on your on your offer a letter. But I think most 399 00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:42.640 executives, so for example, revend collectors building executive team. We just hire 400 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:45.710 a Lee of growth, Laura Gara, relations a saw. Thank you. 401 00:27:45.829 --> 00:27:49.910 Wonderful. No, commission, she doesn't make commission. There's no. All 402 00:27:49.990 --> 00:27:55.390 the executatives, all the people at Revenue Collective, get a twenty percent end 403 00:27:55.430 --> 00:27:59.660 of your bonus based on whether or not we hit our membership goal. That's 404 00:27:59.700 --> 00:28:04.460 it. So that means that Laura can come back to me and say hey, 405 00:28:06.220 --> 00:28:08.019 but she can make she can say that we should slow down and it 406 00:28:08.140 --> 00:28:11.859 doesn't mean that she doesn't get to go on Christmas vacation because she's not going 407 00:28:11.900 --> 00:28:14.890 to hit her number. You know, she can be a good long term 408 00:28:14.970 --> 00:28:18.210 store to the business where. I think most executives, all executive should be 409 00:28:18.210 --> 00:28:19.849 paid the same way. We should and we should be paid so that we 410 00:28:19.970 --> 00:28:23.890 live on our base comfortably and if the company hits its goals at the end 411 00:28:23.890 --> 00:28:27.039 of the year, then we should all get a bonus. That's what I 412 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:30.240 think. I think a lot of people would disagree with me. I think 413 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:33.680 a lot of people think that they've met these kind of stereotypical sales leaders and 414 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:37.720 I think, you know, we're in like the billy being part of moneyball 415 00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:42.190 sales leadership. I think that that's probably not true, that that's what it 416 00:28:42.269 --> 00:28:45.390 takes. I think a lot. I think that the companies that we all 417 00:28:45.470 --> 00:28:49.230 think about, how money is made in revenues generated as an individual support and 418 00:28:49.269 --> 00:28:52.549 it's a team sport and it's a team support that the whole company is engaged 419 00:28:52.589 --> 00:28:56.259 in and we should all be paid based on the company's ability to achieve its 420 00:28:56.380 --> 00:29:03.579 targets and there's no one person that's that's specifically responsible and this isn't an opinion 421 00:29:03.579 --> 00:29:07.099 that you came to overnight. This is something that I've heard you speak passionately 422 00:29:07.140 --> 00:29:11.730 about it. You picked it, but I know this is one of the 423 00:29:11.849 --> 00:29:15.930 one of your favorite topics, because you have had the background and the experience 424 00:29:17.289 --> 00:29:22.009 to know about the pluses and of this approach and you've come up with this, 425 00:29:22.289 --> 00:29:26.799 this bill of rights that speaks to this and that that you have team 426 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:33.000 members like Fred had mayther, that are proponents of this and that supported, 427 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:37.789 as you have of Youp candidate going through an interview in a set of conversations. 428 00:29:37.829 --> 00:29:41.589 Yep, that's right. Then it's you know again, I mean that's 429 00:29:41.630 --> 00:29:45.670 the it's not just about how cash is structured. It's also it's it's it's 430 00:29:45.670 --> 00:29:49.029 a whole framework of saying if we're all going to work places a year and 431 00:29:49.069 --> 00:29:52.630 a half, maybe that's the right amount of time. I'm not saying it's 432 00:29:52.630 --> 00:29:53.980 not, actually, I'm just saying if that's going to be the case, 433 00:29:55.099 --> 00:29:57.779 then I would like a different deal. That's right, I agree, and 434 00:29:59.099 --> 00:30:03.660 certainly have have seen that many among the collective our supportive of the concept. 435 00:30:04.059 --> 00:30:10.369 Certainly, the evolution of the of the concepts you're promoting are making the way 436 00:30:10.369 --> 00:30:12.329 around the world. So this is good. This is good new, thank 437 00:30:12.410 --> 00:30:17.849 God, news for us. I don't know how the venture capital community feels 438 00:30:17.890 --> 00:30:19.809 about it, but that's okay, that is what it is. So so 439 00:30:21.369 --> 00:30:22.759 here's another one. Maybe that one of the last question. So what's a 440 00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:30.039 recent thing that you tried that you were surprised by the result? Well, 441 00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:36.470 what a question, I guess. We launched a swag store. And I 442 00:30:36.630 --> 00:30:37.349 mean, if you want to steer me in a different direction, but this 443 00:30:37.470 --> 00:30:41.029 is just what comes to mind. That's that's an amusing one. Yes, 444 00:30:41.710 --> 00:30:45.869 we put up a swag store and people bought a bunch of our stuff and 445 00:30:47.029 --> 00:30:51.380 that that, that was surprises me. That again, like the point that 446 00:30:51.460 --> 00:30:55.660 I'm making, is around like signs of Product Market Fit, signs you're ready 447 00:30:55.660 --> 00:30:59.220 to scale, and and one of the signs is people want your logo on 448 00:30:59.259 --> 00:31:03.849 their bodies. And that was that was a very pleasant surprise that that was, 449 00:31:04.769 --> 00:31:07.529 that people felt that way. I mean that felt obviously pretty amazing. 450 00:31:07.970 --> 00:31:11.769 And generally, again, if you're if you're founder, what you're looking for 451 00:31:11.890 --> 00:31:15.089 those signs, you're looking for those signals that tell you that that's something. 452 00:31:15.170 --> 00:31:19.720 It bigger is going on than just to you because you know, another misconception 453 00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:23.960 or you know, I guess I'm like somewhere between nature and nurture, between 454 00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:29.160 like great man theory and, you know, the environment creating circumstances. But 455 00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:33.150 I do believe that, like, we over attribute, you know, individual 456 00:31:33.230 --> 00:31:38.349 brilliance oftentimes, and the point of product market fit is it that the market 457 00:31:38.549 --> 00:31:41.910 wants something, like a group of people needs something. It's not that I'm 458 00:31:41.950 --> 00:31:47.380 such a genius, it's that this was needed, and that's you're looking for 459 00:31:47.539 --> 00:31:52.220 those signs that you are kind of like aligned with the energy of the universe. 460 00:31:52.539 --> 00:31:55.500 You know that like and if you can just listen closely enough, the 461 00:31:55.539 --> 00:31:56.980 universe will tell you what it wants and then you can just give it back 462 00:31:57.019 --> 00:32:05.890 to the universe. It's a great approach to answering a question. Talking about 463 00:32:05.890 --> 00:32:07.730 swag and ended up talking about the universe. You start with swag and end 464 00:32:07.769 --> 00:32:12.569 up so, I think, about the universal lot. Yeah, well, 465 00:32:12.690 --> 00:32:15.490 Hey, you're you're doing it from a from a great point of view. 466 00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:21.240 I think this has been certainly informative for those that are in early stage startups, 467 00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:24.640 for those that are in early revenue leadership positions. The approaches that Sam 468 00:32:24.799 --> 00:32:31.349 takes are great and give a plug for those early stage founders that get asked 469 00:32:31.349 --> 00:32:35.109 by the revenue leaders. Hey, can I join rebin collective? Well, 470 00:32:35.150 --> 00:32:38.670 I think talking my book here, so you already know that this is not 471 00:32:38.829 --> 00:32:43.630 objective. I'm not a third party. I just think you're a fool if 472 00:32:43.710 --> 00:32:46.019 you don't. Don't. Why would you hire somebody it's not in the revenue 473 00:32:46.019 --> 00:32:50.819 collective? That's you know, first of all, it's cheaper, right. 474 00:32:51.140 --> 00:32:54.539 What's more expensive? Having to swap out leaders every eighteen months, having to 475 00:32:54.700 --> 00:32:59.890 take massive chances because because the person that you hire is this stubborn opstate, 476 00:32:59.930 --> 00:33:01.450 a person that feels like they need to go it alone. Maybe they've have 477 00:33:01.650 --> 00:33:05.410 experience, but how many times have they have the experience? Once or twice? 478 00:33:05.809 --> 00:33:09.890 Through revenue collective you have thousands and hundreds of thousands of years of experience, 479 00:33:10.009 --> 00:33:14.559 or at least thousands of years of experience. I Guess Twenty Onezero, 480 00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:19.200 a few assume everybody lives to like seventy or maybe two hundred and tenzero anyway. 481 00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:24.079 But the point as a quarter of a million years of experience. That's 482 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:29.509 I want my people, the people that I hire, to be supported and 483 00:33:29.630 --> 00:33:32.150 ultimately, this is way, way cheaper, a way to make sure and 484 00:33:32.230 --> 00:33:37.509 and sure that the people that I hire feel supported and are able to handle 485 00:33:37.829 --> 00:33:42.740 challenges that I haven't seen before, that they haven't seen before, in a 486 00:33:42.779 --> 00:33:45.180 way where I have some confidence that there's a resource that they're leveraging, that 487 00:33:45.619 --> 00:33:50.859 that has that experience. So I think that somebody said it's it's like an 488 00:33:50.859 --> 00:33:53.859 iron man suit for my leadership, for my sales team, a revenue collective, 489 00:33:53.900 --> 00:33:58.650 and that's whether it's revenue collective or something else, make sure that you 490 00:33:58.730 --> 00:34:01.609 put a group of resources and experts around the executives that you hire and look 491 00:34:01.690 --> 00:34:05.650 to extend the range. And if you do that, frankly, you can 492 00:34:05.690 --> 00:34:09.960 hire younger people or people with less experience and you can get more traction and 493 00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:14.320 more more leverage out of them. So, anyway, that's my plug. 494 00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:17.280 If you want to check it out, it's revenue collectivecom on. If you 495 00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:21.400 I guess, you can email me at Sam at revenue collective thatcom if you 496 00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:23.469 want to learn more. Reading the screw, reading ahead of the script here. 497 00:34:23.469 --> 00:34:27.150 I was I was going to ask you about I was I was going 498 00:34:27.230 --> 00:34:30.590 to you know, a dif additional plug for you that this is an a 499 00:34:30.670 --> 00:34:34.710 community that is not just for leaders, right. Yeah, well, that's 500 00:34:34.750 --> 00:34:37.230 I mean it's for leaders and aspiring leaders. You know, it's for we 501 00:34:37.349 --> 00:34:42.940 have an associates community, over a thousand people that are that are looking to 502 00:34:42.980 --> 00:34:45.860 take that next step and we are on leaving executive community for people that are 503 00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:49.260 either that have been there, done that and want a mentor, to the 504 00:34:49.260 --> 00:34:51.900 point of my last comment, or are still trying to get to the to 505 00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:54.409 wherever it is a the want to go and also need that help and support. 506 00:34:54.769 --> 00:34:59.530 Fantastic. Thank you again, Sam for your time. It was wonderful 507 00:34:59.530 --> 00:35:02.530 engaging with you and appreciate all the stories and perspectives. Thanks, John, 508 00:35:02.570 --> 00:35:07.400 great talking with you. Thanks for your membership. My pleasure. So thank 509 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:10.480 you again for listening to this episode of the Revenue Series on be tob growth. 510 00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:15.639 I'm your host, John Grispin, founder and sales coach at early revenue. 511 00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:17.400 Please connect with me on Linkedin. I'm gonna have it to answer any 512 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:22.710 questions. Will provide recommendations. You can also you know me at John at 513 00:35:22.789 --> 00:35:27.789 early REVENUECOM. Thank you for tuning in and subscribing to be tob growth and 514 00:35:28.309 --> 00:35:34.710 until next time, I'm out. Are you in early stage tech founder that's 515 00:35:34.750 --> 00:35:37.500 frustrated by limited sales. Do you like the time to dedicate to a traditional 516 00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:44.219 sales training program? John Crispin's earlier revenue sales program helps early stage founders accelerate 517 00:35:44.300 --> 00:35:47.139 sales in large accounts. He's built a playbook that transfers what he's learned as 518 00:35:47.139 --> 00:35:52.210 a founder and sales leader into a condensed, easy to implement program. If 519 00:35:52.210 --> 00:35:55.449 you're ready to increase your startup sales capacity, is it early Revenuecom to get 520 00:35:55.449 --> 00:35:57.170 started today?