#Sales 15: British Tea Cast: Minding Your P’s and Q’s Across the Pond w/ Galem Girmay

WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:10.589 My personalities is being pretty direct with people, like I'm calling this is the 2 00:00:10.710 --> 00:00:13.429 purpose, like here's what I want to get out of this conversation, and 3 00:00:13.949 --> 00:00:17.469 that work pretty well. In the US that was perceived in a better way 4 00:00:17.510 --> 00:00:21.390 right, and my call to actions could be very direct, but then moving 5 00:00:21.579 --> 00:00:27.699 to UK it was kind of the opposite of that. Everybody, thank you 6 00:00:27.739 --> 00:00:31.980 for joining us today on BB growth. I am your eternally sleepy cohost, 7 00:00:32.020 --> 00:00:36.450 Patrick downs, the sales, enablement and training manager at Pant Dock. Today 8 00:00:36.490 --> 00:00:40.890 I'm very excited to be joined by I'm good by. I said I wouldn't 9 00:00:40.890 --> 00:00:43.329 do it, but I did. Actually can tell you her name, but 10 00:00:43.409 --> 00:00:48.289 she's account executive as flat wire and I have titled Today's episode the British tea 11 00:00:48.409 --> 00:00:52.159 cast and this one's going to be about selling in the US for selling in 12 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:54.960 the UK. Welcome to the show. Do you want to add some colored 13 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:59.920 deer introduction? Yes, thank you, fad drake. Now you funny because 14 00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:03.479 I asked you earlier. I wish that was recorded when you try to say 15 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:06.030 my name and you just did it again, so I appreciate that. So 16 00:01:06.109 --> 00:01:11.269 much fun. It's Galum. That's the most common way to say my name, 17 00:01:11.269 --> 00:01:12.950 so I'm just going to go with that. So it's Galum. I 18 00:01:14.349 --> 00:01:19.620 work CENN account executive here in the UK for a fantic company and I'm originally 19 00:01:19.659 --> 00:01:23.420 from Sweden. So that's where I was born and raised. Then I spent 20 00:01:23.500 --> 00:01:26.939 the next nine years in the US and then recently, little less than a 21 00:01:26.939 --> 00:01:30.340 year and a half ago, I moved from the US. I lived outside 22 00:01:30.379 --> 00:01:34.170 of Boston and I moved to London, so that's where I live now. 23 00:01:34.489 --> 00:01:38.090 Hmm, I'm assuming you never sold in Sweden. I have not, other 24 00:01:38.170 --> 00:01:41.969 than when I worked in retail. I've actually I did, so I guess 25 00:01:41.969 --> 00:01:45.370 I did sell in Sweden. Right before I moved to the US, one 26 00:01:45.409 --> 00:01:48.959 of my best friends Dad was opening his own store and he needed somebody to 27 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:53.920 sell snakers. So he asked me because he actually wanted to send me off 28 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:57.439 to the US. That was his whole things that you really need to get 29 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.400 out of here, like I lived and grew up in a really small town, 30 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:02.030 and he said you need to get out of here, like us is 31 00:02:02.069 --> 00:02:05.709 the next place for you. You've been talking about it, like what do 32 00:02:05.750 --> 00:02:07.189 you need? How can I help you? I said I need money, 33 00:02:07.830 --> 00:02:10.590 like that's really what I need. So he said, all right, well, 34 00:02:10.590 --> 00:02:14.349 I'm starting my business. I want you to work for me for summer. 35 00:02:14.789 --> 00:02:15.939 You'll save up all the money that you need. I'll pay you whatever 36 00:02:15.979 --> 00:02:20.539 you need and then you can go. So that's what I did. So 37 00:02:20.580 --> 00:02:23.659 I worked for him for a couple of months over the summer, stayed off 38 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:27.580 some money and then I moved to us. Wow, I'm so sorry you 39 00:02:27.620 --> 00:02:30.210 ended up in the US. That's it's an unfortunately nine years. I've been 40 00:02:30.250 --> 00:02:35.289 here for twenty eight and actually I grew up in New England, so I'm 41 00:02:35.289 --> 00:02:37.650 pretty familiar with the area you were in. You were in Boston for a 42 00:02:37.689 --> 00:02:40.330 bit. Huh? Yes, outside of Boston. Yeah, did you sell 43 00:02:40.370 --> 00:02:45.879 it all in the people that lived in Boston? So I when I started 44 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:49.919 fly wire about a year and a half or two years ago, I'm my 45 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:53.319 first three months was in Boston. That's where I started. I was hired 46 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:58.319 in Boston and I worked as a BDR at a time for about three four 47 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:02.789 months and then I relocated to London. So I did sell and majority of 48 00:03:04.030 --> 00:03:07.430 the people I was selling into, or we're actually east coast. Were some 49 00:03:07.669 --> 00:03:10.069 in Midwest, but majority in east coast. And I still into school. 50 00:03:10.150 --> 00:03:15.300 So, like I would call universities, and not that three months. Really 51 00:03:15.419 --> 00:03:17.659 my focus when I started was to sell into community colleges. So I would 52 00:03:17.819 --> 00:03:22.259 call a lot of community colleges in the east coast, but also Midwest. 53 00:03:22.939 --> 00:03:25.780 Those are the most opposite places ever. I was going to say the East 54 00:03:25.860 --> 00:03:30.689 Coast. Going from there to the UK would be very frightening for me because, 55 00:03:30.810 --> 00:03:35.330 like when I sell into people in Boston area, I feel like I 56 00:03:35.449 --> 00:03:38.129 have to be like almost very rude to them to get anything done. That 57 00:03:38.250 --> 00:03:42.919 thing speak like pretty much any time I great somebody there, it starts with 58 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:46.960 the que so it's definitely a big change going to Great Britain. They would 59 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:52.599 not appreciate that. They're no, but I think that might be a good 60 00:03:52.639 --> 00:03:53.879 place to take us to. Like, what was it like when you first 61 00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.590 transitioned over to the UK? What were some of the differences you saw immediately, 62 00:03:58.669 --> 00:04:00.550 and maybe what was the same that you were surprised by? Yes, 63 00:04:00.669 --> 00:04:09.990 so the most immediate difference to me was like the approach right and how how 64 00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:14.379 they would welcome or not welcome sales up to have a conversation. I feel 65 00:04:14.379 --> 00:04:17.779 like when I lived in the US was selling into US market and my personalities 66 00:04:17.860 --> 00:04:21.899 is being pretty direct with people, like I'm calling this is the purpose, 67 00:04:23.019 --> 00:04:26.170 like here's what I want to get out of this conversation, and that work 68 00:04:26.250 --> 00:04:29.689 pretty well. In the US that was perceived in a better way right, 69 00:04:29.810 --> 00:04:33.370 and my call to actions could be very direct. But then moving to UK 70 00:04:34.370 --> 00:04:38.209 it was kind of the opposite of that, like I could not come in 71 00:04:38.370 --> 00:04:43.000 hot on a conversation with someone, I could not just be how I naturally 72 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:47.040 am, so to adjust with with my language, with different personas depending on 73 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:50.120 who I would speak with. And and, like I said, I sell 74 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:55.310 into education, so it's mostly financed people that that I try to get in 75 00:04:55.310 --> 00:05:00.389 touch with. Sometimes people working in admissions and then international office, and those 76 00:05:00.470 --> 00:05:05.509 three type of personas are different from one another, like they're not that similar 77 00:05:06.139 --> 00:05:11.339 and a lot of times they actually don't always connect the dolls or the bridge 78 00:05:11.379 --> 00:05:14.620 between the different departments. So that's also part of my job. So you 79 00:05:14.699 --> 00:05:18.379 have to navigate those different conversations with people and sort of give the insight from 80 00:05:18.500 --> 00:05:23.170 one point of view to the next. But the main thing I noticed, 81 00:05:23.250 --> 00:05:27.610 which is that I'm very direct. They're not asked direct that they're not up 82 00:05:27.649 --> 00:05:31.089 for confrontation, then not up for like I can call people out on Shit, 83 00:05:31.410 --> 00:05:34.959 you know. So it just the way you approach it and the language 84 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:39.759 that you use like that that's different. The thing that jumps to mind if 85 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:42.560 I'm prospecting and I have to not be direct, I'm starting to think like 86 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:45.199 how do I deal with someone that says they're going to a meeting if they're 87 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:46.839 in the UK, because typically, if I was in the US, I 88 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:49.149 would be like, oh, it's fifteen, you're going to a meeting, 89 00:05:49.389 --> 00:05:53.069 or something like that. Like what kind of meaningstal and fifteen? kind of 90 00:05:53.110 --> 00:05:58.189 joke? I know you can't do that. I would never, never do 91 00:05:58.389 --> 00:06:00.389 that. I mean, okay, so you asked me earlier like you share 92 00:06:00.389 --> 00:06:02.709 a funny stories. I'm just going to share it now because it happens to 93 00:06:02.750 --> 00:06:05.779 be perfect. I don't know how funny it is people actually laugh at this, 94 00:06:05.819 --> 00:06:10.100 but I think they could relate to it. So what happened in my 95 00:06:10.180 --> 00:06:14.259 first couple of weeks moving from the US to UK? I was in this 96 00:06:14.379 --> 00:06:17.259 room making my phone calls and I was a Beatyr, so my job was 97 00:06:17.339 --> 00:06:21.290 like set up meetings, qualify them, and so I was calling bunch of 98 00:06:21.370 --> 00:06:26.009 people and right off the bat they would be like, oh, okay, 99 00:06:26.250 --> 00:06:29.370 well, can't really talk right now. Be Call me in a couple weeks. 100 00:06:29.930 --> 00:06:32.279 All right, like the most common objection I think people get and and 101 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:35.240 meet being new to sales. Like again, I had just this is my 102 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:41.399 first job in sales and I'm in STAS sales, so I don't know what 103 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:45.160 that means and I definitely don't know what it means in the context of this 104 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:48.389 culture. So here I am thinking like oh, everything's good, like I'm 105 00:06:48.430 --> 00:06:51.629 gonna have some really good deals coming through here or meeting set off for my 106 00:06:51.709 --> 00:06:57.149 managers. So I'm in a good mood right and I keep sharing this with 107 00:06:57.389 --> 00:06:59.750 manager, like Oh, I had really good call, like you know, 108 00:06:59.870 --> 00:07:00.860 this is how it went. They told me to call back in a couple 109 00:07:00.939 --> 00:07:06.259 weeks, and my manager is British, so he's like, gailing, you 110 00:07:06.379 --> 00:07:10.779 do know that that it's not really what it means. They just trying to 111 00:07:10.860 --> 00:07:14.779 get off the phone with you, like they're probably not interested. What else 112 00:07:14.819 --> 00:07:16.730 did they tell you? I was like no, that's all they told me. 113 00:07:16.930 --> 00:07:19.889 I thought this was good. I thought that was like a really good 114 00:07:19.970 --> 00:07:23.769 sign that they would just say, Oh yeah, thanks for calling me, 115 00:07:24.050 --> 00:07:26.490 don't really have time right now. Call me in a couple weeks and they 116 00:07:26.490 --> 00:07:30.319 would say it. You know, the British accent sounds so nice. Everything 117 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:34.199 just sounds wonderful. So I thought everything was good. Realize it's really not. 118 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:38.879 So how do you deal with that? Now somebody gives you that brush 119 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:42.720 off? You know, now I'm trying to keep them on the phone and 120 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:46.269 I say, okay, well, what in particular are you more interested about? 121 00:07:46.269 --> 00:07:47.310 If I call you in a couple of weeks? What is it that 122 00:07:47.350 --> 00:07:51.069 you'd like to discuss at that point? They you're not able to discuss right 123 00:07:51.110 --> 00:07:56.790 now. What's the reason for us not having this conversation now versus in two 124 00:07:56.829 --> 00:08:00.500 months? And usually they would tell me like, oh, it's your end, 125 00:08:00.620 --> 00:08:03.980 or we actually they would open up a little bit and say, Oh, 126 00:08:03.100 --> 00:08:07.420 we actually just started a contract with somebody else, or or see if 127 00:08:07.459 --> 00:08:11.180 I was leaving, like they would share information with me at that point. 128 00:08:11.259 --> 00:08:13.449 If I just open up the conversation of like help, just help me understand 129 00:08:13.490 --> 00:08:16.490 why. And this is something you would do with both the US and UK 130 00:08:16.850 --> 00:08:20.730 clients, or would you handle differently? One of that's Regan. It's hard 131 00:08:20.810 --> 00:08:24.449 for me to say just because I worked in the US for a short amount 132 00:08:24.490 --> 00:08:28.120 of time. So I didn't actually like one. When I first started working 133 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:33.120 and selling in the US. I like the first couple weeks I was terrified 134 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:35.840 of even making phone call. So I didn't never get to that point. 135 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:39.320 It was like secretly hoping that nobody would pick up so I wouldn't have to 136 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:41.830 have the conversation at all. Right, because I was like I don't know 137 00:08:41.870 --> 00:08:45.870 what to say, like this is awkward, this is uncomfortable. Then I 138 00:08:45.950 --> 00:08:48.870 get over myself. I get over that. I think everyone have to do 139 00:08:48.990 --> 00:08:52.110 if they're going to stay in sales. So it's hard for me to Adser 140 00:08:52.190 --> 00:08:54.669 like what I've done the same. Probably, I guess, like that's just 141 00:08:56.580 --> 00:09:01.019 my natural curiosity of understanding, like it's fine that you don't want to go 142 00:09:01.419 --> 00:09:05.460 with this product, but help me understand why, right, because that way, 143 00:09:05.620 --> 00:09:09.529 like I'm not wasting my time, you're not wasting your precious time of 144 00:09:09.649 --> 00:09:13.330 looking at my emails or taking the phone calls you don't want to take. 145 00:09:13.490 --> 00:09:16.850 Like help me, help you, just tell me why. I think that's 146 00:09:16.850 --> 00:09:22.690 still somewhat director. I mean it's not like completely beating around the Bush like 147 00:09:22.769 --> 00:09:26.279 a do it in this softer, nicer way. Yeah, not just like 148 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:28.559 Hey, i. Ah, i. what's up, Plann't you interested? 149 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:33.200 Right, what's going on? Well, Boston. I'm curious about how you 150 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:37.789 open these that because I'm a very direct opener and we sell globally, so 151 00:09:37.909 --> 00:09:43.669 I've obviously not how much success with it overseas. But it's something like hey, 152 00:09:43.710 --> 00:09:46.190 this is a sales called, you want to hang up? That kind 153 00:09:46.230 --> 00:09:48.629 of thing, I feel like works really well in the US. Is Direct. 154 00:09:50.389 --> 00:09:54.139 How do you open to people that don't like things like that? Yeah, 155 00:09:54.899 --> 00:09:58.980 I've tried that approach. Didn't really work well for me. Honestly. 156 00:09:58.059 --> 00:10:01.860 I tried different approach just to see because again, depends on the persona like. 157 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:07.409 Usually when I call it will be to switch board and then I'll get 158 00:10:07.409 --> 00:10:11.210 directed to someone like in the finance office, and then you know who this 159 00:10:11.289 --> 00:10:16.009 person is because you've already found them online and all that stuff. But it 160 00:10:16.210 --> 00:10:20.330 usually starts with a conversation of like hey, the reason for my call, 161 00:10:20.690 --> 00:10:22.759 and that is pretty direct. Again, like I don't Chit Chat for the 162 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:26.919 first couple of minutes because they don't have time to Chitch out with me either. 163 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.399 But I can't also come in super hot and be like this is a 164 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:33.559 sales call, I'm calling you because of Blah Blah Blah. I have so 165 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:35.909 many rejections before I even get to a person, because they would say, 166 00:10:37.509 --> 00:10:39.309 is this a sales call, like are you calling to sell this person something? 167 00:10:39.350 --> 00:10:46.470 And you're like Um, wow, define a sales call, like that's 168 00:10:46.549 --> 00:10:50.139 what I'm thinking in my head, like define the cells called. But I'm 169 00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:54.659 more so like I'm up front. I'm like yes, I'm calling because I 170 00:10:54.820 --> 00:11:01.100 have this idea that I wanted to talk through with your finance director. And 171 00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:03.740 then they're like Oh, what's the idea? And then I will share that 172 00:11:03.860 --> 00:11:05.889 with them, like here's the reason why I'm calling. I know and I 173 00:11:07.049 --> 00:11:09.450 have to pull in some relevant information of like I know you're doing blah, 174 00:11:09.490 --> 00:11:13.049 blah blah. Today I was thinking if you thought about x, Y and 175 00:11:13.049 --> 00:11:16.529 Z, and then they would usually share some information or at that point like 176 00:11:16.649 --> 00:11:20.000 Oh, I don't really know, that's not my job. Let me get 177 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.039 you in contact with the right person. So I get the reference that way. 178 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.840 But yeah, opening up the conversation to begin with, it's not easy 179 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:31.759 and it's different depending on who that person is right, but usually the best 180 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:37.429 ways is just to be coming in in a way of like hey, so 181 00:11:37.750 --> 00:11:41.309 the reason for my call is I wanted, I understand, you do this 182 00:11:41.509 --> 00:11:46.950 today. I have this idea, maybe this. Have you thought about this? 183 00:11:46.139 --> 00:11:50.500 Like have you thought, ever thought about having an installment plan for your 184 00:11:50.500 --> 00:11:54.100 international students? What would that look like? It is that something that you're 185 00:11:54.139 --> 00:11:56.059 interested in talking more about? And they work? Oh well, actually, 186 00:11:56.100 --> 00:12:00.620 yeah, we do have payment plans right now, but blah, blah, 187 00:12:00.620 --> 00:12:03.929 blah, like they will share some information and and sometimes they would say no, 188 00:12:03.049 --> 00:12:07.169 we're not interested in that. It's like okay, but okay, that's 189 00:12:07.169 --> 00:12:11.009 fine. Like why? Why not? Because if you have this many international 190 00:12:11.090 --> 00:12:15.049 students, you know and right now, what ties in pretty well, it's 191 00:12:15.090 --> 00:12:20.080 unfortunate. But because of covid you need to have a solution to process payments 192 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:24.639 online right now, because you can't ask your students to walk down the street 193 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:26.480 and go into their bank. Most of them are not going to do that. 194 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:30.070 So, like, what's the solution for that? And sometimes it's just 195 00:12:30.350 --> 00:12:33.909 openly talking. But what's your strategy right now because of Covid? Like, 196 00:12:33.110 --> 00:12:37.070 are you opening up in the fall or you're not opening up? What are 197 00:12:37.110 --> 00:12:39.070 your plans like? How are you going to execute this? What's your priority 198 00:12:39.110 --> 00:12:43.590 right now? And they would tell me most of the time what their priority 199 00:12:43.669 --> 00:12:48.340 is. Yeah, I think the biggest difference is really kind of negotiation once 200 00:12:48.419 --> 00:12:52.460 you get past prospecting, because since we're global, you find sales cycles with 201 00:12:52.580 --> 00:13:00.129 most countries and the biggest problem, I've emphasizes prospecting, is negotiation because again, 202 00:13:00.409 --> 00:13:03.690 if you're dealing with someone in New England, it's very direct and like 203 00:13:03.090 --> 00:13:07.570 walking away from a deal is like normal. I've tried to walk away from 204 00:13:07.570 --> 00:13:11.730 a deal with the person that UK and they called my boss very upset that 205 00:13:11.809 --> 00:13:16.519 I would ever walk away, which I was confused by. I think I 206 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.799 thought it was over. What are you upset? So I think it's just 207 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:26.600 because they might be less open about sharing like how they actually feel about either 208 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:30.509 price or whatever you're proposing to them. How have you dealt with that kind 209 00:13:30.549 --> 00:13:35.830 of change? It's a good question and I just recently moved into doing full 210 00:13:35.909 --> 00:13:39.590 cale cycle so I haven't really got to that point. But also, like 211 00:13:39.909 --> 00:13:46.500 the solution that we offer them doesn't cost them anything. So prices in like 212 00:13:48.059 --> 00:13:52.820 a conversation that we need to have, unless you're looking for our full solution 213 00:13:52.019 --> 00:13:54.970 of all the different products that we have, but that's usually for a much 214 00:13:56.049 --> 00:14:00.529 larger school I don't really deal with those type of of universities. I have 215 00:14:00.769 --> 00:14:05.570 on more so mid to lower side. So like I would do some universities, 216 00:14:05.730 --> 00:14:07.889 but the ones who have a lower end, and then I would do 217 00:14:09.049 --> 00:14:13.240 like the boarding schools. So those type of institutions are not really looking for 218 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:22.279 that many solutions to their existing business. But prices is interesting because actually the 219 00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:26.309 question comes up in other ways. You know, we talked if we lead 220 00:14:26.389 --> 00:14:30.629 with the value and then at the end they would go, well, how 221 00:14:30.669 --> 00:14:33.990 much is it going to cost me? And then if you tell them like, 222 00:14:33.350 --> 00:14:35.870 oh, well, for this type of solution it is actually not going 223 00:14:35.990 --> 00:14:39.659 to cost you anything, then they start to sort of be like that's not 224 00:14:39.820 --> 00:14:43.019 real, like it needs to call something right, and the you have to 225 00:14:43.059 --> 00:14:48.659 sort of explain like the business model, why it doesn't and when which way 226 00:14:48.779 --> 00:14:52.139 might if you move into other areas, and then they sort of get the 227 00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:54.769 whole picture of it. Yeah, it is weird. I used to sell 228 00:14:54.809 --> 00:15:00.250 Yap advertising and we had like promotions where someone could just like for three months, 229 00:15:00.250 --> 00:15:03.129 advertisement us are free, and they were actually more hesitant to do that 230 00:15:03.289 --> 00:15:07.480 than to sign a contract. Hmm, I would have some people just stare 231 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:11.759 at me like no, no, that's there's there's no way that you're just 232 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:16.240 giving me three months of advertisement. And it's weird because people will either go 233 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:18.919 that's too expensive, or I don't believe that it's that cheap, or like 234 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:24.149 there's always some sort of judgment around price. So I find that interesting that 235 00:15:24.350 --> 00:15:30.149 people aren't really coming at it from a really like objective standpoint or a value 236 00:15:30.190 --> 00:15:33.070 judgment. It's just all based on your perspective of something, what something should 237 00:15:33.070 --> 00:15:37.659 be. This should cost money, this should cost less. But then when 238 00:15:37.659 --> 00:15:39.820 you start digging into like what I like to do is like all right, 239 00:15:39.860 --> 00:15:43.899 like what are you basing that on? Like do you have a rice that 240 00:15:43.940 --> 00:15:46.419 you're weighing next to it like a scale? Yeah, and most people don't 241 00:15:48.379 --> 00:15:50.809 write. You start taking to the emotional reasons, like okay, why does 242 00:15:50.809 --> 00:15:54.409 it feel like it's too expensive? Where does it feel like the should cost 243 00:15:54.490 --> 00:15:56.690 money? But again, I don't think I would ever do that with someone 244 00:15:56.730 --> 00:16:00.169 in the UK because I feel like they would just either hang up at a 245 00:16:00.250 --> 00:16:03.320 fear or slammy in the face. I'm not sure which one. There's it's 246 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:10.480 interesting, like you have a prediscovery call, which is usually what my cold 247 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:12.559 call will be. If I get someone on the phone, it's like prediscovery 248 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:18.120 call and they have discovery call and they have demo and they have follow up 249 00:16:18.190 --> 00:16:23.710 and so I would not ask that type of question in a pre discovery call, 250 00:16:23.950 --> 00:16:27.629 like a cold call right, like we're not going to get really deep, 251 00:16:27.870 --> 00:16:32.190 I'm just going to get a high level overview of like what is it 252 00:16:32.269 --> 00:16:34.460 that I could potentially help you with? But I would ask those kind of 253 00:16:34.539 --> 00:16:38.379 deeper questions when I'm in a discovery call. You know how what would is 254 00:16:40.220 --> 00:16:42.779 if we could do x, like how would that help you or how would 255 00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:48.570 that make your life a little bit easier? Like that's a top conversation I 256 00:16:48.649 --> 00:16:51.690 can have at that point. But in a discovery like in a prediscovery call, 257 00:16:51.809 --> 00:16:53.090 on a cold call, they feel like, I'm not going to tell 258 00:16:53.090 --> 00:16:57.409 you all of that, like I don't know you. You're asking for too 259 00:16:57.450 --> 00:17:04.000 much. Seriously, that's that's something I struggle with. I'm always going really 260 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:07.319 deep. I I have a second podcast and I started with like I'm going 261 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:11.720 to ask you three really per some questions, and it's usually a strangers and 262 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:14.480 there's always that like look of anxiety and I think there's going to end the 263 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:18.789 zoom meeting there and that's how I also treat my cod calls. So I'll 264 00:17:18.869 --> 00:17:22.950 stick with a with the US for now, and I usually try to stay 265 00:17:22.950 --> 00:17:26.109 away from the midwesterners do, because they're like way too nice as human beings. 266 00:17:26.589 --> 00:17:30.220 In my opinion. That freaks me out a little bit. I think 267 00:17:30.259 --> 00:17:33.619 I might be discard powers from the cornfields. I'm not coolute sure, though. 268 00:17:33.140 --> 00:17:37.299 I don't know. Okay, I can't refer. That's okay, that's 269 00:17:37.299 --> 00:17:41.500 all right. We're good on that. If anybody can do this, though, 270 00:17:41.099 --> 00:17:45.769 and they want to come away with like three major things that they should 271 00:17:45.769 --> 00:17:49.089 maybe avoid doing when they're speaking to someone in a sales contact in the UK, 272 00:17:49.650 --> 00:17:52.210 what would you say? That would be okay. So one thing they 273 00:17:52.250 --> 00:17:59.480 should avoid doing is trying to just throw things and see what sticks. I 274 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:00.960 don't think that's ever a good strategy. Like I think you have to come 275 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:06.440 in with a purpose, so know why you're calling, know the reason and 276 00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:08.480 why you're reaching out to that person. I think that's really important. The 277 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:15.829 other thing that I've learned from from any other cells leaders is tonality matters, 278 00:18:15.950 --> 00:18:19.670 like how you're speaking matters, and I think for me, because I don't 279 00:18:19.710 --> 00:18:23.710 have the British accent, they already are like a little bit curious, like 280 00:18:23.829 --> 00:18:27.059 who's this person, like, are you from the US? So I think 281 00:18:27.099 --> 00:18:33.019 if you think about the way you speak, your tonality, sort of words 282 00:18:33.059 --> 00:18:37.579 that you use, is really important to pending on who you're speaking with. 283 00:18:37.339 --> 00:18:42.650 The third thing is like be comfortable and confident in what your message is, 284 00:18:44.450 --> 00:18:48.450 because when I first started calling I was neither. I was not comfortable, 285 00:18:48.450 --> 00:18:52.410 I was not confident, I wasn't sure why I was calling. You could 286 00:18:52.410 --> 00:18:56.400 hear about my tone. So all those three things or buckets. There were 287 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.839 more than three things, but there were three buckets. I think they really 288 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:03.559 matter and that's something that you need to practice and it takes time, like 289 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:08.839 I did not get comfortable with cold calling the first six months. It took 290 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:12.509 me like six to nine months to really be like, I appreciate this, 291 00:19:12.589 --> 00:19:17.109 this is actually fun, like what else can I do with this? What 292 00:19:17.190 --> 00:19:19.630 are the ways can I take this? In the beginning it was not like 293 00:19:19.789 --> 00:19:25.380 that. I I was dreading cold calling. I've kind of been in that 294 00:19:25.460 --> 00:19:29.700 spot. My first cold called, the person like horribly assaulted me, which 295 00:19:29.779 --> 00:19:32.940 was awesome, and I think that moment I was like I was scared before 296 00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:34.019 I made the call. But then my boss can do is like that is 297 00:19:34.059 --> 00:19:38.410 probably the worst response you'll ever get. So you started there like the rest 298 00:19:38.410 --> 00:19:41.890 of this is fucking great, right. So that's kind of a great way 299 00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:45.329 to be, I think. Yeah, all right, start yourself on a 300 00:19:45.410 --> 00:19:49.130 deep end and you'll be fine. Right. I actually called this mechanic the 301 00:19:49.210 --> 00:19:52.200 other day and I use my favorite line, that this is a cold call 302 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:56.079 line, and he told me he was gonna put his hands around my throat 303 00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.079 and squeeze into my eyes popped out of my head and then he hung on, 304 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:03.400 and which was pretty similar to my first call. But I feel like 305 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.630 I've gotten so numb to that sort of thing. Like my response, and 306 00:20:07.710 --> 00:20:10.470 you could hear on the recording I just started laughing ysterically and I was like 307 00:20:10.509 --> 00:20:14.029 you're gonna joke me. Let's just talking to a dead lie at that point. 308 00:20:14.750 --> 00:20:18.190 But it's weird how sales does that to you. Like over a certain 309 00:20:18.190 --> 00:20:21.779 period of time, it almost becomes like a game in a way. HMM, 310 00:20:22.059 --> 00:20:25.299 to fin chest, and if if one of the chases this happens to 311 00:20:25.380 --> 00:20:27.059 lash out and like cut my head off, not a big deal. It's 312 00:20:27.099 --> 00:20:30.539 a game. Yeah, it's like I would start calling, like there was 313 00:20:30.619 --> 00:20:33.779 one day, I remember, on a Friday, and I was calling it. 314 00:20:33.980 --> 00:20:38.049 Every single person I spoke with was like being rude or didn't want to 315 00:20:38.089 --> 00:20:41.930 talk to me, like I had no conversation and all that was. All 316 00:20:41.930 --> 00:20:45.329 I was getting was that negativity and got to point where I just felt like, 317 00:20:45.450 --> 00:20:49.079 oh my God, this socks like I can't do this. But then 318 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:52.319 I was like, let's let's make a game out of this. Let me 319 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:57.319 take notes of how many people I'm calling for the next two hours who are 320 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:02.119 going to be rude, to be and they just became it like it's not 321 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:04.150 what I wanted, and I don't think it's good to lead with that intention 322 00:21:04.349 --> 00:21:07.150 of like looking for it. But if you can look at it from a 323 00:21:07.190 --> 00:21:11.430 different perspective of saying like well, let's just have fun with this, like 324 00:21:11.549 --> 00:21:15.150 there are going to be people like that. They're equally, are going to 325 00:21:15.230 --> 00:21:19.539 be people who really appreciate you calling for giving them some something else to think 326 00:21:19.579 --> 00:21:22.539 about, a new solution that you brought to the table for them. So 327 00:21:23.259 --> 00:21:26.539 it can go both ways. I think at the end of the day, 328 00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:30.180 it comes down to mindset and also not taking any of this personally. When 329 00:21:30.299 --> 00:21:33.690 somebody is being rude to you, you know, and it were saying these 330 00:21:33.769 --> 00:21:37.730 things like they're not like they don't know who I am, like, you 331 00:21:37.849 --> 00:21:41.170 know. So I don't take it personally. I'm like, that's just there. 332 00:21:41.210 --> 00:21:45.529 Just comes comes with the game. Yeah, I mean, this is 333 00:21:45.609 --> 00:21:48.559 going to get really deep for a second, but like even your closest friends 334 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:52.640 and family don't really know you. So I think like only you can really 335 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.160 know you. You need sort of value. Judgment Somebody makes on you holds 336 00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:00.519 very little purpose, like enough that you can look at it and then sort 337 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:03.309 of fact check it against your own beliefs about yourself and maybe make some changes. 338 00:22:03.349 --> 00:22:07.190 But it should never make you feel bad. It's like they don't really 339 00:22:07.269 --> 00:22:10.509 know right anything. It can only be a good thing and that you can 340 00:22:10.549 --> 00:22:14.150 help it, I think. I think when you're not confident or you don't 341 00:22:14.150 --> 00:22:18.819 have enough self awareness, like then you might feel as if you're being attacked 342 00:22:19.539 --> 00:22:22.579 and then that's going to crush you in some way. So you're not going 343 00:22:22.619 --> 00:22:26.579 to want to do like jump up again and do those calls right, for 344 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:32.369 example. I think that's that's the problem and want I'm glad that I get 345 00:22:32.450 --> 00:22:36.089 into sales at the time when I did in my life, like I was 346 00:22:36.210 --> 00:22:40.769 twenty eight when I started in sales, so I've gone through bunch or bit 347 00:22:40.890 --> 00:22:44.170 in my life to not really worry about these things. Like we're in a 348 00:22:44.170 --> 00:22:48.119 different place. If I started doing this job when I was twenty, that 349 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.279 might have been a different conversation. I'm just saying the way I am. 350 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.119 I'm not saying that you can't do that job when you're twenty. You absolutely 351 00:22:56.119 --> 00:23:00.230 can. People have done it, people are doing it, but I'm saying 352 00:23:00.309 --> 00:23:03.390 for me, and the same thing in college. You know, I'm so 353 00:23:03.589 --> 00:23:07.869 impressed. I went to college when I graduated when I was twenty eight, 354 00:23:07.390 --> 00:23:12.660 and I want with other people who were like ten years younger than me almost, 355 00:23:14.380 --> 00:23:15.900 and I was like Whoa, this is crazy, like I was not 356 00:23:17.099 --> 00:23:19.940 in the place that you are today when I was at that age whatsoever, 357 00:23:21.140 --> 00:23:22.980 which is why I never went to college when I was at that age. 358 00:23:23.059 --> 00:23:26.890 Right. But I'm impressed by the people who can't do it and where they 359 00:23:26.890 --> 00:23:30.650 are in their life. Yeah, it's wild. I mean our company has 360 00:23:30.650 --> 00:23:33.490 been hiring a lot of like seventeen and eighteen year olds out of practice in 361 00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:40.369 other programs like expireship, and they're incredible. It's like like if you get 362 00:23:40.450 --> 00:23:44.680 someone younger and they come into sales, it's almost completely different thing, in 363 00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:48.880 my opinion. Yeah, they don't have that same like awareness of what the 364 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.119 adult world is like. So it I think it is easier to look at 365 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:56.230 it like a game. Hmm Oh, yeah, I'm just calling people and 366 00:23:56.309 --> 00:23:57.750 saying stuff and I know they get me money for it. Cool, like 367 00:23:57.910 --> 00:24:02.710 that's a very different mindset. Yeah, and they're also just willing to like 368 00:24:02.829 --> 00:24:06.109 go super hard on it. I feel like it's one of those like things 369 00:24:06.150 --> 00:24:10.140 are as I really appreciate having this job because before this I had zero money 370 00:24:10.779 --> 00:24:14.779 and now suddenly I have money. But the problem too, I think that 371 00:24:15.380 --> 00:24:18.859 I've heard from from other people and that I felt my self, is like 372 00:24:18.980 --> 00:24:22.980 a level of entitlement. Right, like now we're going in different direction here, 373 00:24:23.289 --> 00:24:29.049 but I think as a early in sales, as an str B Dr, 374 00:24:29.529 --> 00:24:33.890 and you're like crushing it right and now you're feeling like well, I 375 00:24:33.970 --> 00:24:37.009 can do more right, like I can I can close the deals, like, 376 00:24:37.650 --> 00:24:41.839 you kind of start to feel that because I've done so well, I 377 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:45.359 should get this next thing, which for a lot of people is like in 378 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.279 a but it could equally be going into a different field of marketing, customer 379 00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:53.910 success, whatever. But I started to feel a little bit like that in 380 00:24:55.109 --> 00:24:57.589 my role, like even in being in that role for less than a year. 381 00:24:57.789 --> 00:25:00.910 I was like, well, I've done this, I've proven that I 382 00:25:00.950 --> 00:25:03.910 can do it, I met all my quotas, I've done this, I 383 00:25:03.029 --> 00:25:06.630 should I should get to the next level, I should get there now, 384 00:25:07.259 --> 00:25:11.539 right. But that's not really how it works. The part of me was 385 00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:14.740 was thinking that way. The other part of me, because I'm a little 386 00:25:14.779 --> 00:25:18.980 bit older, was like also understanding that it. That's not how it works. 387 00:25:18.019 --> 00:25:22.849 You're going to have to work your ass off and it's not always on 388 00:25:22.009 --> 00:25:25.970 your time, it's not always on your schedule. Right. There are other 389 00:25:26.089 --> 00:25:29.890 people that will help make that decision for you when that's going to happen. 390 00:25:30.569 --> 00:25:33.410 So I think that's the whole conversation around entitlement. People think is the right 391 00:25:33.490 --> 00:25:37.279 time to move on and or not move on, but like move forward in 392 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:41.720 their career to the next place. That depends on who you're speaking with. 393 00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:45.319 And actually be interested to have you on the other podcast to talk about like 394 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.589 career growth, forest errands, because I think it's weird how the only option 395 00:25:49.670 --> 00:25:52.789 is to like either going to see us m or AE, which are completely 396 00:25:52.910 --> 00:25:56.750 different jobs that you're not necessarily prepared for, but there's no actual, like 397 00:25:57.109 --> 00:26:03.430 SDR career path that like fits the same skill set and goes upwards. That's 398 00:26:03.470 --> 00:26:06.700 why everybody just wants to jump out right. It's like well, I've hit 399 00:26:06.740 --> 00:26:10.500 the ceiling. I'm booking all these appointments. Like what if there were other 400 00:26:10.619 --> 00:26:15.980 str roles available? I think that would be interesting. Yeah, it's I 401 00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:19.049 was in that place actually, where I'm like, Oh, do I want 402 00:26:19.089 --> 00:26:23.849 to do like sales or do I want to become like an account manager? 403 00:26:25.130 --> 00:26:29.769 Like I could see myself doing both. So I was in a place of 404 00:26:30.009 --> 00:26:33.640 exploring those options before making a decision and I was talking to other people about 405 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:38.079 those roles to really understand what that looks like on a day to day and 406 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:42.079 once I've had a couple of those conversations, it was crystal clear to me 407 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.440 that that was not their out for me to go. I was like, 408 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.509 Nope, I'm not going to be an account manager. Likes great as to, 409 00:26:49.589 --> 00:26:52.750 seems, to build up these relationships. That's just not where my heart 410 00:26:52.829 --> 00:26:56.549 is. That I love building relationship, but everything else that comes with it. 411 00:26:57.430 --> 00:27:00.940 That's not me like that did not speak to me, but I didn't 412 00:27:00.940 --> 00:27:04.779 know that by just looking at a piece of paper and looking at what a 413 00:27:04.819 --> 00:27:10.940 job descript description for a relationship manager or account manager would look like. I 414 00:27:11.180 --> 00:27:15.049 only got that insight by actually speaking to people about it at different levels. 415 00:27:15.089 --> 00:27:18.930 Oh well, that we need to talk more soon. This is good. 416 00:27:18.009 --> 00:27:21.849 This is gone off topic, but in a way that I do. I'll 417 00:27:21.930 --> 00:27:23.609 comes off here, though, and ask if there's anything else that you want 418 00:27:23.609 --> 00:27:27.410 to plug or anything people can find from you online. Yes, so, 419 00:27:29.009 --> 00:27:32.480 if you're not already part of REV genius, you should become a part of 420 00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:37.680 the community. This is a community for sales marketing revolps professionals and we're all 421 00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:42.640 coming together because a lot of us felt that, okay, I work in 422 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:48.349 this organization, I don't really know what these other people are doing or how 423 00:27:48.509 --> 00:27:52.910 I can help them or how they can help me to to get more revenue 424 00:27:52.230 --> 00:27:56.309 for the business. So it's not easy for a lot of people to create 425 00:27:56.390 --> 00:28:00.099 those relationships because they don't know where to start. So what we did with 426 00:28:00.220 --> 00:28:06.019 this community was just building all of those relationships out so people can learn upskill 427 00:28:06.140 --> 00:28:11.220 with each other and then, within that community. We have sub group so 428 00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:15.569 we do like specific round table topics every week, couple times a week. 429 00:28:15.609 --> 00:28:18.210 We have a group just for women, so women are rev genius. We 430 00:28:18.289 --> 00:28:22.450 meet every Monday. We have bunch of different things that we do within our 431 00:28:22.490 --> 00:28:26.359 community and at the end of the day, we're just a very inclusive community 432 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.440 and what we like to say to everyone is like, you can come and 433 00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:34.400 sit with us, because where those type of people, where those professionals, 434 00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:38.680 that this can be your alternative work family and you can have fun and you 435 00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:42.349 can learn, that you can grow, and if you're looking to do that, 436 00:28:42.630 --> 00:28:47.390 then come to rev genius. Yeah, I am part of REV genius 437 00:28:47.430 --> 00:28:48.990 and I will say it is quite nice. There's a lot of different kinds 438 00:28:49.029 --> 00:28:52.390 of communities there. It's almost too active at the point where like I'll open 439 00:28:52.390 --> 00:28:56.059 it up and I'm like, okay, that's a lot of stuff. So 440 00:28:56.180 --> 00:28:57.859 if you have some time on your hands, definitely go in there, because 441 00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:02.259 there's a lot of value you had and I actually you guys providing that service 442 00:29:02.299 --> 00:29:04.859 for the community. Of course it's our pleasure. Yeah, is there anything 443 00:29:04.900 --> 00:29:07.980 else you want to plug? I want to say thank you for inviting me. 444 00:29:08.140 --> 00:29:11.289 This has been a lot of fun and it's so great to get to 445 00:29:11.369 --> 00:29:15.369 know you and learn more. What will you do? And Yeah, I 446 00:29:15.490 --> 00:29:18.009 just want to say thank you for that. Of course, of course, 447 00:29:18.170 --> 00:29:22.210 we will definitely have you back on soon and once again, you're forever napping. 448 00:29:22.329 --> 00:29:25.759 COHOST, Patrick downs. You can connect with me on Linkedin. please. 449 00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:27.880 My overlords tell me that you have to follow be to be growth and 450 00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:33.200 instagram and subscribe to the show and Apple Podcast, spotify or wherever you put 451 00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:36.720 sound into your ear holes. Catch you next time. Bye. Bye. 452 00:29:38.430 --> 00:29:42.069 This episode is brought to you by Panda Doc. Sending your documents is pdf 453 00:29:42.230 --> 00:29:45.670 through email is super old school. It's time to while this socks off your 454 00:29:45.710 --> 00:29:51.150 prospects, clients and colleagues by creating, sending, tracking and e signing with 455 00:29:51.269 --> 00:29:55.900 Panda Doc. 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