Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:09.349 Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:09.470 --> 00:00:13.429 I'm joined today by Thomas Bocard. He's the STP of sales at global 3 00:00:13.429 --> 00:00:16.949 data. Tomhi doing today, sir, Hey, Logan doing great, great 4 00:00:16.989 --> 00:00:20.670 area. I'm doing fantastic. And so we're going to be talking about how 5 00:00:20.710 --> 00:00:26.940 sales teams can really use what you call commercial empathy for better success in prospecting, 6 00:00:26.980 --> 00:00:31.620 in closing, all throughout their sales cycles. But for one before we 7 00:00:31.739 --> 00:00:35.299 get into the benefits, how to actually do this. Why is this something 8 00:00:35.340 --> 00:00:39.329 that's got you so fired up? And what do you mean by commercial empathy? 9 00:00:39.409 --> 00:00:43.049 Yeah, yeah, so, I mean I think it's got me far 10 00:00:43.250 --> 00:00:46.090 because, a, the impact it's having on a sales pipeline, but also 11 00:00:46.170 --> 00:00:52.399 be because empathy is such the buzz word right now and it's just it's the 12 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:55.600 way it's being thrown around and utilized. It just goes against the all of 13 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:59.719 you know, the tactical empathy that Chris Voss has kind of like created that 14 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:03.200 buzz around with everyone. You know. It's the how are you? Are 15 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:06.829 you okay? Are you staying safe? Like you don't mean you just want 16 00:01:06.829 --> 00:01:10.349 to book a Demo Right, like so I think for me it's really like 17 00:01:10.590 --> 00:01:14.269 it's going off the script and being genuine, like you should be asking those 18 00:01:14.269 --> 00:01:17.950 questions because you care. But you know, to some points that I saw 19 00:01:18.189 --> 00:01:21.459 in a post from you recently is put that at the bottom. You're there 20 00:01:21.500 --> 00:01:23.980 talking business first to Hook Business and when you bring it up at the end 21 00:01:23.980 --> 00:01:26.340 of the conversation it has more validity, more credible ability. For me, 22 00:01:26.700 --> 00:01:32.260 though, it's leaning into the you know, the individuals at the companies and 23 00:01:32.379 --> 00:01:34.609 then having empathy for their job right now. So that's why I called commercial 24 00:01:34.650 --> 00:01:38.090 empathy. It's you know, you're the sales guy that used to be on 25 00:01:38.129 --> 00:01:41.209 the road ninety percent of the time. You're not on the road anymore. 26 00:01:41.650 --> 00:01:45.329 You know you're not doing the same TAC as you're doing. Your targets haven't 27 00:01:45.329 --> 00:01:49.719 gone down, your expansion plans haven't gone away and you know in most of 28 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:53.079 the cases I'm speaking to, but you need still find a way to make 29 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:56.079 it happen. So how are you? You know where you pivoting? What 30 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:57.959 are you doing now to go in there? So it's really it's leaning into 31 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:02.390 that part with empathy at the individual level and it's just you know. So 32 00:02:02.510 --> 00:02:07.030 this is common sense it seems like, but that's what really gets me kind 33 00:02:07.030 --> 00:02:09.349 of, you know, fired up around commercial empathy and leaning into that, 34 00:02:09.469 --> 00:02:15.669 the commercial part being the emphasis on it. So that's absolutely man I love 35 00:02:15.780 --> 00:02:17.819 that you called out Chris Foss. If anybody listening to this, if you're 36 00:02:17.860 --> 00:02:23.699 in sales or marketing really and you haven't read Chris Foss's book, never split 37 00:02:23.740 --> 00:02:25.379 the difference. Go read it. I've listened to it twice. I've had 38 00:02:25.419 --> 00:02:30.409 Chris Foss here on the podcast and just so many things come up and conversation 39 00:02:30.530 --> 00:02:34.370 where I'm like, uh, go back to that and we can apply that 40 00:02:34.530 --> 00:02:38.889 to this situation, whether it's mirroring, labeling, tactical empathy, all sorts 41 00:02:38.930 --> 00:02:42.250 of things. So we're going to go deep onto empathy today in this episode 42 00:02:42.409 --> 00:02:45.439 on the sales series. So, Tom let's talk a little bit. As 43 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:49.639 you and I were chatting offline, it's really about research, right. It's 44 00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:53.240 about going deeper, because you mentioned it's not that empathy saying hey, crazy 45 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:58.710 times, hope you're doing well. It's beyond that. To have empathy you 46 00:02:58.789 --> 00:03:01.590 really have to put yourself in someone else's shoes and you can't do that unless 47 00:03:01.629 --> 00:03:06.990 you really understand their daytoday so talk a little bit about kind of the typical 48 00:03:07.030 --> 00:03:09.669 approach. You see the sales teams to understand the market they serve and how 49 00:03:09.830 --> 00:03:15.620 you recommend they go a few layers deeper. Sure, yeah, so I 50 00:03:15.740 --> 00:03:19.620 think Logan and that that's the key. It's going deeper. So in you 51 00:03:19.740 --> 00:03:23.259 go back three, four months ago, what have you even, you know, 52 00:03:23.300 --> 00:03:25.060 back to the end of two thousand and nineteen. You didn't need to 53 00:03:25.539 --> 00:03:29.849 know the specifics. So you could go into a company just you can understand 54 00:03:29.849 --> 00:03:32.569 your your Tam who are the types of companies I'm calling? Why am I 55 00:03:32.729 --> 00:03:37.009 calling them? How do we help them? Okay, great, like that's 56 00:03:37.009 --> 00:03:39.449 enough to lead off of. Then the better APPS. They would understand their 57 00:03:39.530 --> 00:03:44.400 prospects, the job titles, if there's different nuances, and that kind of 58 00:03:44.439 --> 00:03:47.000 generic approach. It's just falling on deaf ears right now. It's just like 59 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:52.199 the hope you're safe or you know, I was working at home with the 60 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:54.870 kids. It's like doing it for four months. It's go nuts. So 61 00:03:55.030 --> 00:03:59.389 it's really want to hear how much he did you have right? Yeah, 62 00:03:59.469 --> 00:04:02.909 exactly. It's like, and I mean and look at the beginning of all 63 00:04:03.030 --> 00:04:06.069 this. I think when people are adjusting they needed those outlets that are away 64 00:04:06.069 --> 00:04:10.539 from like their family or their coworkers, just having it. But that's not 65 00:04:10.580 --> 00:04:14.379 going to press the needle and do what we're trying to achieve. So for 66 00:04:14.500 --> 00:04:18.379 me it's it's going those extra layers and that's really it's understanding your ICP at 67 00:04:18.420 --> 00:04:21.980 a level that you never have before. So it's not just understanding, oh, 68 00:04:23.060 --> 00:04:27.329 what are the three challenges that you know, heads of sales come across 69 00:04:27.410 --> 00:04:30.970 that we help solve. It's really doing what is their daytoday? What do 70 00:04:31.089 --> 00:04:35.170 they care about? Right, like start the individual level before you're going to 71 00:04:35.209 --> 00:04:38.879 the company. So it's a you know, these are your objectives, this 72 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:42.560 is how you're measured for success when you have your quarterly reviews or your bonus 73 00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:45.959 reviews or whatever it may be. Right, but what do you need to 74 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:48.480 do on the daily to get there? Right, what's the path? What 75 00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:51.399 are the road blocks that are coming up? What are the unforeseen row blocks 76 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:55.870 that have come up now because of just everything that's going around us in the 77 00:04:55.949 --> 00:05:00.550 world? And it's knowing that in and out from that side, like becoming 78 00:05:00.589 --> 00:05:06.939 a subject matter expert within your ICP really changes those discovery calls from like interviews 79 00:05:06.980 --> 00:05:13.699 or questions and just high level, sometimes nonsense bs too, really tactical conversations 80 00:05:13.860 --> 00:05:16.540 and that's where you start really get some meat out of them and then you 81 00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:20.889 can start relating and it just starts. It moves the process so much quicker. 82 00:05:21.050 --> 00:05:25.449 They become so much more open to having those bits with you and diving 83 00:05:25.449 --> 00:05:29.810 in there. So I think it's really, you know, understanding your ICPA 84 00:05:29.970 --> 00:05:33.050 at a level that you never have before, you know, and going in 85 00:05:33.170 --> 00:05:39.240 and out from that side. That's the difference between what used to work or 86 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:41.879 we used to get you, you know, President's Club, and what will 87 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:46.120 now. Yeah, absolutely, I every thing kind of works to a degree, 88 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:49.709 but when things are tougher, you know you've got to do more to 89 00:05:49.790 --> 00:05:55.110 stay in that in that top percentage. It reminds me of a conversation I 90 00:05:55.230 --> 00:06:00.110 had with with Mark Smith here on this podcast back in like the episodes six 91 00:06:00.189 --> 00:06:02.110 hundreds or seven hundreds. Will Link to it in the show notes. I 92 00:06:02.230 --> 00:06:05.939 think that the title of the episode was like before you make a single sales 93 00:06:05.980 --> 00:06:10.660 call, do this, and it was all about make make some phone calls 94 00:06:10.740 --> 00:06:15.779 and just research the heck out of the Daytoday of your prospects, whether you 95 00:06:15.899 --> 00:06:21.250 sell to vpiece of sales, vpiece of marketing, HR leaders, founders at 96 00:06:21.410 --> 00:06:26.569 a small business, at startups, you know, business owners in small to 97 00:06:26.649 --> 00:06:30.689 medium businesses. Whatever your persona is, you've really got to get to know 98 00:06:30.290 --> 00:06:34.399 more than just like the pain associated with your product. You've got to get 99 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:39.240 to know their daytoday, all the other factors. It's kind of like, 100 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:42.480 you know, I talked to people in financial services that are like, oh, 101 00:06:42.519 --> 00:06:45.920 we can't do a podcast because you know, we can't. We can't 102 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:47.870 put out content because it's going to go through compliance, it's going to take 103 00:06:47.910 --> 00:06:51.110 forever. I'm like, well then you're putting out the wrong content. And 104 00:06:51.189 --> 00:06:55.029 I know I'm going from sales to marketing here, but the same thing holds 105 00:06:55.069 --> 00:06:59.709 true. And the reason that those financial services companies should be putting out content 106 00:06:59.750 --> 00:07:04.779 that's not just related to specific financial advice is because their prospects spend one percent 107 00:07:04.860 --> 00:07:08.899 of their day thinking about, you know, wealth management. They have all 108 00:07:09.019 --> 00:07:12.779 these other things and if you understand and those things and you can serve your 109 00:07:12.899 --> 00:07:16.170 prospect at a broader level, then you become, you know, that trusted 110 00:07:16.209 --> 00:07:19.810 advisor. So Tom as you and I were talking a little bit offline, 111 00:07:19.850 --> 00:07:26.250 you mentioned several different tools and strategies that you recommend your reps and other sales 112 00:07:26.329 --> 00:07:30.839 people use as they dig deeper to get to know their prospects on a more 113 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:33.879 one to one basis. So what are some of the things that you're recommending 114 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:39.439 to make this repeatable and efficient, as they kind of balance the quality and 115 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:43.480 quantity that we're always struggling with a sales people? Right? Sure, yeah, 116 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:46.829 yeah, and I think you know some of the the ways that we're 117 00:07:46.870 --> 00:07:49.149 doing the research. So it is even some of the research starts at the 118 00:07:49.230 --> 00:07:53.949 company level first. So it's still important understand what's going on with that company. 119 00:07:54.069 --> 00:07:56.910 So you should have your Google alert set up so you can see, 120 00:07:57.110 --> 00:08:00.540 you know, if there's any press releases, any articles that they're in and 121 00:08:00.660 --> 00:08:03.579 that because that the company, you know, I guess objectives and drives that 122 00:08:03.660 --> 00:08:07.220 will also that will have a major impact on your ICPs. So it's you 123 00:08:07.339 --> 00:08:11.899 do need to still understand what's going on in that company. So Google alerts 124 00:08:11.939 --> 00:08:15.329 are good for that. Another tool that I use seeking alpha, you know, 125 00:08:15.410 --> 00:08:18.649 for public companies that are out there seeking Alpha, you can set up 126 00:08:18.649 --> 00:08:22.490 alerts, create like a watch list. It's really for like investing in stocks. 127 00:08:22.610 --> 00:08:26.250 But what you'll get from it is you know what what are these companies 128 00:08:26.290 --> 00:08:28.959 doing? What are the you know, it has earning coal transcriptions. That 129 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.440 has all that, so you can see how are they responding to what's going 130 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:35.240 on in the mark now? What are their key objectives? And you'll see 131 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:37.960 if you're selling into sales, you'll see will what are the revenue targets or 132 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.789 challenges where they are? Do they have expansion plans? Have they curb things 133 00:08:41.830 --> 00:08:46.110 back? What what's going on? If you're selling to you know, marketing, 134 00:08:46.389 --> 00:08:50.110 product heads, whatever it may be, you'll get a sense from there 135 00:08:50.549 --> 00:08:54.269 and and it's great because it literally just comes into your inbox so you don't 136 00:08:54.309 --> 00:08:56.620 need to do too much out and from that end, you know, k 137 00:08:56.820 --> 00:09:01.019 filings are still good to read. You know global data week. That's part 138 00:09:01.059 --> 00:09:05.100 of our platform. So we're as sales people we have the benefit to have 139 00:09:05.179 --> 00:09:07.779 access in there so we can see like quick buzz words from that. But 140 00:09:09.379 --> 00:09:13.049 anyone can read through some K's or or see it seeking out for or a 141 00:09:13.169 --> 00:09:16.049 google alert to get kind of a synopsis and get the Buzz Base. So 142 00:09:16.169 --> 00:09:20.250 it's important people all that stuff in front of you. When it comes to 143 00:09:20.250 --> 00:09:22.570 the individual those will drive it, but to that day to day, the 144 00:09:22.690 --> 00:09:26.399 real knowledge. That's where you have to get and dig it, so to 145 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:30.759 two routes. That, I think, our most effective one. Just look 146 00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:33.360 at job advertisement, right like. So if there's job postings at the companies 147 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:37.799 you're going into for similar roles or roles within that division, look at that 148 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:39.590 or a competitors. You get a real sense of some of the INS and 149 00:09:39.710 --> 00:09:43.830 outs of what is required, what is expected of them on the day to 150 00:09:43.870 --> 00:09:46.870 day to get to those objectives, because that's what you need to know is 151 00:09:48.389 --> 00:09:52.110 what are they doing? What's going on? You know, not the I 152 00:09:52.230 --> 00:09:54.059 got this on Linkedin the other day. Someone emailed me. They're like great 153 00:09:54.100 --> 00:09:58.100 to connect. What's keeping you up at night? Of secres? You kidding 154 00:09:58.179 --> 00:10:01.460 me? This is your opening. It's like is in one thousand nine hundred 155 00:10:01.460 --> 00:10:03.860 and ninety eight, like come on, but what do you what are your 156 00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:07.490 biggest business objectives for two thousand and twenty? I saw John Barrows Post about 157 00:10:07.490 --> 00:10:09.409 that's like, what am my business objectives for two thousand and twenty? Not 158 00:10:09.529 --> 00:10:13.210 Going under? That's my that's my primary business objective. You want you want 159 00:10:13.250 --> 00:10:16.289 to know and it's just like, man, it just kills me. The 160 00:10:16.610 --> 00:10:20.289 either whoever's writing these templates? Who are whoever is, you know, sending 161 00:10:20.330 --> 00:10:24.840 these out and thinking that, man, that is just such a smart question. 162 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:28.600 I'm just like, Oh, I hope you realize that how that is 163 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.960 landing. You know, I like what you're saying. They're even if you 164 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:33.960 don't, you know, have tools like you guys have in house at Global 165 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:37.710 Data and that you guys provide. You know, you take that K, 166 00:10:37.470 --> 00:10:41.629 you probably know some of the words that you're looking for. Do a control 167 00:10:41.669 --> 00:10:46.230 F on that PDF and just see how many times a certain word comes up 168 00:10:46.509 --> 00:10:48.990 and and that sort of stuff. So the transcriptions of the earning calls, 169 00:10:50.340 --> 00:10:54.659 the K and then the job posting on one kind of common thread between analyzing 170 00:10:54.700 --> 00:10:58.820 all of those. I think a lot of sales people need to think about 171 00:10:58.299 --> 00:11:01.980 is look at the language that they're using. What is the language? What 172 00:11:03.139 --> 00:11:07.129 are the common words, and how can you customize the way that you speak 173 00:11:07.250 --> 00:11:11.649 specifically to that account in a way that that aligns with that? I literally 174 00:11:11.929 --> 00:11:16.929 you know if they're using if they're using the word aggressive with their growth goals 175 00:11:16.970 --> 00:11:20.200 or there whatever that word is. Literally, use that and aligned to that. 176 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:22.120 Now, some of that might be, like, you know, I'm 177 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:26.399 talking to so and so and they don't know what the CEO said on that 178 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.639 call. But it's not going to hurt to a line yourself to the wording 179 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:35.110 and and the common language that that organization has. The other thing you and 180 00:11:35.149 --> 00:11:39.269 I talked about offline time I thought was was really smart, is going back 181 00:11:39.590 --> 00:11:41.870 to lost deals. And now some sales people be like, why the heck 182 00:11:41.950 --> 00:11:45.629 would I do that? Like I, I move on. It's out of 183 00:11:45.669 --> 00:11:50.340 the funnel. I'm focused on my pipeline. But as it relates to commercial 184 00:11:50.419 --> 00:11:52.899 empathy, why is this something you're recommending the sales people? Yeah, I 185 00:11:52.980 --> 00:11:56.419 mean those lost deals, and I'm not talking about the deals a blowout like 186 00:11:56.659 --> 00:12:00.340 just you know that, like tell you take a well, but but most 187 00:12:00.379 --> 00:12:03.690 of these you've spent time with them. So your sales cycle, even if 188 00:12:03.769 --> 00:12:05.690 it's you're dealing with SMB, you're generally in a, you know, at 189 00:12:05.730 --> 00:12:09.049 least a two week to four week sales cycle most likely, right. You 190 00:12:09.169 --> 00:12:11.490 know, if it's less, it's less, but it you can go back 191 00:12:11.490 --> 00:12:15.529 to. You built a rapport you've built relationship, you've spent, you know, 192 00:12:15.570 --> 00:12:18.200 a couple hours. You know, both of you have invested time in 193 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:20.039 this bit. So you can literally you can go back to them just ask 194 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:22.720 them some questions. Hey, look, I'm doing some some research on mice. 195 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.799 I would love to just pick your brain. Not Trying to get any 196 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:28.799 company secrets to this, but just want to learn more about your role. 197 00:12:30.269 --> 00:12:33.629 What is that you do in the daytoday? Like just curious. So, 198 00:12:33.950 --> 00:12:35.629 you know, put on the research had as opposed to the sales had, 199 00:12:37.350 --> 00:12:41.429 you know, benefit. You might back door your way into some some revived 200 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:43.860 opportunities in your pipeline. But but don't go in with that objective. You 201 00:12:45.019 --> 00:12:48.019 just want to go into learn, because you could take away from that call. 202 00:12:48.220 --> 00:12:50.139 You know, two three things that can go into any of your email 203 00:12:50.139 --> 00:12:54.860 prospecting, your call, prospecting, your linkedin touches just in the vernacular. 204 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:58.009 So you mentioned it with like the company bit. It's just also what do 205 00:12:58.090 --> 00:13:03.409 people in those seats say? But I think it's important to start translating that 206 00:13:03.529 --> 00:13:05.330 stuff too, because, to your point, maybe the person your pitch doesn't 207 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:09.889 know what the CEO said, but your proposal may end up with the CEO. 208 00:13:09.370 --> 00:13:13.000 So having the language that's baked in there for that company from that CEO, 209 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.159 you know when it comes on her desk, she it's going to just 210 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.960 I'm sure there's some you know, some conscious n LP bits we could dive 211 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.279 into that I've know. Yeah, we'll have to ask Chris Class on that, 212 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:28.789 but I think I love that, not even just in your language, 213 00:13:28.789 --> 00:13:31.750 on your sales calls, in your outreach emails, in your cold calls, 214 00:13:31.830 --> 00:13:35.269 but in your proposals as well, finding some ways to customize that night. 215 00:13:35.470 --> 00:13:41.580 I think there are some things there that they are definitely repeatable Tom speak to 216 00:13:41.620 --> 00:13:43.539 you know, some folks out there are probably like, yeah, this all 217 00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:48.220 sounds well and good, but am are really going to make a difference if 218 00:13:48.299 --> 00:13:52.940 I if I go deeper here, if I really try to lean into what 219 00:13:52.019 --> 00:13:56.649 you call commercial empathy, is it really driving results? As you and I 220 00:13:56.690 --> 00:13:58.889 were chat and off Flyin, you shared with me some pretty surprising stats on 221 00:14:00.009 --> 00:14:05.009 both calls and emails, seeing how it's been more effective taking some of these 222 00:14:05.090 --> 00:14:09.850 steps, slowing down a little bit and understanding your prospects. Daytoday, it 223 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:13.720 like it's driving real impact. It's not just kind of this fluffy thing right 224 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:18.320 yet know it and it's having impact quick so while it is a little more 225 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.519 work in the front end, you know, but I try to organize the 226 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:24.110 team. So it's like you get a new territory, you find new people, 227 00:14:24.789 --> 00:14:28.669 spend a couple days digging into that you know, or do a day 228 00:14:28.669 --> 00:14:30.710 a week where you're building it up so then you can spend the rest of 229 00:14:30.750 --> 00:14:33.149 the week prospecting it out there. So it's not killing your time. But 230 00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:37.659 from a calling perspective, seeing I'm looking at there are some reps that are 231 00:14:39.139 --> 00:14:41.460 you know, some that have went from using generic to using the more specific 232 00:14:41.779 --> 00:14:48.500 commercial empathy within the ICP's themselves and they went from it was literally one in 233 00:14:48.659 --> 00:14:50.259 forty six goals. It took them, but it took him forty six goals 234 00:14:50.259 --> 00:14:54.289 to book a meeting. Now it's taking them twenty two goals to book a 235 00:14:54.370 --> 00:14:58.009 meeting and the only thing that's changed is the pitch. The audience is the 236 00:14:58.090 --> 00:15:03.529 same, but they're going in with more specifics. It's generating that bit. 237 00:15:03.889 --> 00:15:05.490 I mean the email front, what I was saying to I mean we you 238 00:15:05.570 --> 00:15:09.960 do in the generic emails. Mean Look, we we were getting next to 239 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:15.840 nothing from response rate. I don't think that's off from a lot of people 240 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.480 that I speak to in the industry, you know. But when you're doing 241 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:20.919 emails of this nature, so like, obviously you volume goes down, so 242 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:26.149 it does wait the responses bit. But the reality is I don't think you're 243 00:15:26.190 --> 00:15:28.549 really sending out cold emails when you have the research and you're putting it in 244 00:15:28.629 --> 00:15:31.669 there. So and we're getting about ten percent hit rk on that. So 245 00:15:31.870 --> 00:15:37.500 just from top of funnel right there, it's time well invested on any research 246 00:15:37.539 --> 00:15:39.460 you're doing. You know, and like you said, there are tools, 247 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:43.860 are easy ways or shortcuts to do it. It takes time, but it's 248 00:15:43.940 --> 00:15:46.659 not it's not going to kill you. It's not going to kill a month 249 00:15:46.659 --> 00:15:50.370 of productivity, it's not going to kill a week. You just organized appropriate 250 00:15:50.409 --> 00:15:52.250 and attack it from that end. Get out there. Yeah, I mean 251 00:15:52.409 --> 00:15:56.889 and from what you said, they're you're doubling your productivity on calls to meeting 252 00:15:56.929 --> 00:16:00.409 books, you know, going from forty six calls to book a meeting to 253 00:16:00.809 --> 00:16:04.320 twenty two. You've more than cut that in half. So when you look 254 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:08.240 at that productivity gain, as well as like batch your research, don't don't 255 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:12.080 try and like do it all throughout the week as you're making calls, because 256 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:15.559 that's where we like the context. Switching just gets us out of a rhythm. 257 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:19.190 Do Down at the beginning of the beginning of the week and then have 258 00:16:19.389 --> 00:16:22.789 that inform everything that you're doing for the rest of the week. I really 259 00:16:22.870 --> 00:16:26.429 like that. You mentioned as we kind of wrap up the conversation Tome, 260 00:16:26.509 --> 00:16:32.029 there are other benefits to this approach as well that go beyond just the top 261 00:16:32.070 --> 00:16:36.379 of funnel metrics the beginning of your sales methodology. It really has an impact 262 00:16:36.379 --> 00:16:38.100 throughout the sale cycle, right. Yeah, yeah, I mean the first 263 00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:41.860 impact is is shortens to sale cycle right away, so you know you're getting 264 00:16:42.340 --> 00:16:47.450 through the process lot quicker because you're speaking to the specifics of that your individuals. 265 00:16:47.769 --> 00:16:49.850 So if they're not the economic buyer, then they're bringing in people like 266 00:16:49.970 --> 00:16:53.490 quicker to help get that committee together or get the to the in front of 267 00:16:53.570 --> 00:16:57.929 that buyer because you're speaking to what their folks on there. And what you're 268 00:16:57.970 --> 00:17:03.360 doing is you're creating more values, you're increasing your we're seeing average the ACV's 269 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:07.079 have increased pretty significantly, you know, from from that D so they're up 270 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:11.559 right now. It's about twenty three percent on our side, just in some 271 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:14.720 you know, short sample set from here. So I like the numbers to 272 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:18.230 go up higher so we have shorter sales cycles larger deals, you know, 273 00:17:18.349 --> 00:17:22.150 and they're closing at a higher rate. You know, the converting more of 274 00:17:22.190 --> 00:17:26.190 the proposals to contract. So it's it's not a magic bullet by any means. 275 00:17:26.230 --> 00:17:30.579 It's not easy, but it's it's literally it's shortening the sales cycle and 276 00:17:30.700 --> 00:17:33.259 increasing our deal sizes and we're closing more deals. So, you know, 277 00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:37.339 the time that's put in in the beginning, it is helpful. And right 278 00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:41.180 now I mean like, look, we're all work from home. We've seen 279 00:17:41.299 --> 00:17:44.930 from the beginning when everyone was picking up the phones. The now that's gone 280 00:17:44.970 --> 00:17:48.410 down, it's got it's come back to reality and that side. But our 281 00:17:48.490 --> 00:17:51.690 emails, I don't know about you, my emails have you know, that 282 00:17:51.809 --> 00:17:55.609 hasn't ceased. It seems like it's increasing. The amount of just emails and, 283 00:17:55.809 --> 00:17:57.759 you know, pitches. I'm getting from all angles. This is a 284 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:02.559 way to really stand out because you're speaking to them specifically. It shows you 285 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:07.319 did the time. You're showing true you know. Look, they're people's jobs 286 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:08.960 and their livelihood, you know, and there's a lot of question marks around 287 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.319 that with what's going on in the economy, what's going on in the world, 288 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:15.349 what's happening with you know, Covid, etcetera, etc. So it's 289 00:18:15.390 --> 00:18:21.470 like speaking to those points. That's showing you care. It's like, you 290 00:18:21.549 --> 00:18:22.549 know, I want to help you do your job, I want to help 291 00:18:22.589 --> 00:18:26.670 you pivot, I want to help you achieve those goals are overachieve in a 292 00:18:26.750 --> 00:18:29.619 time of question. You know you're going to get their attention, you're going 293 00:18:29.660 --> 00:18:30.900 to get that meeting, you're going to get the follow up meetings, you're 294 00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:34.619 going to get the proposal, you're gonna get the real looks. So it's 295 00:18:34.660 --> 00:18:37.980 having impact on us, you know, at every stage of the game, 296 00:18:38.059 --> 00:18:41.930 which is what you know, what you look you strive for at all times. 297 00:18:42.049 --> 00:18:47.410 I love the way you combine these two apparently disjointed terms, you know, 298 00:18:47.529 --> 00:18:51.250 commercial and empathy, and putting them together, because so often we forget. 299 00:18:51.250 --> 00:18:53.170 I hear Todd Capone say it all the time. You know, even 300 00:18:53.250 --> 00:18:57.039 in be to be we make decisions with emotion and then we'd back it up 301 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:02.960 with logic. We're people first and and by doing this is the salesperson, 302 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:07.960 you are connecting on a more human and more authentic level with your prospect because 303 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:12.430 you can't speak into how you can specifically address their emotions and their state and 304 00:19:12.670 --> 00:19:17.829 what they're struggling with unless you understand that. So it only makes sense that 305 00:19:17.990 --> 00:19:21.829 to reverse engineer that sort of result, that sort of connection, you have 306 00:19:21.950 --> 00:19:23.900 to be able to understand them, and I think you've given us some very 307 00:19:25.019 --> 00:19:27.420 tactic ways to do that, going back to lost deals, looking at job 308 00:19:27.500 --> 00:19:34.140 postings, looking at k reports, earning call transcriptions, searching for keywords, 309 00:19:34.180 --> 00:19:38.970 using that in not only your call language but also in your proposals, those 310 00:19:40.009 --> 00:19:42.529 sorts of things. Tom This has been a fantastic episode. I really appreciate 311 00:19:42.569 --> 00:19:48.329 it if there's anybody listening to this who is now a new fan of yours 312 00:19:48.369 --> 00:19:51.410 and they want to reach out ask any follow up questions or just stay connected 313 00:19:51.450 --> 00:19:52.880 with you. With the best way for them to do that? Yeah, 314 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:57.720 Linkedin's probably the best way on that bit. So, Thomas Folkard, svp 315 00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:03.200 sales. You see be from global data. I've also co founder of SDR 316 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:07.710 defenders. You can find this on the website there as the our Defenderscom so 317 00:20:07.390 --> 00:20:11.950 all over and recently started co hosting a show with Paul Solomonaka the top one 318 00:20:11.990 --> 00:20:15.710 percenter show. So trying to try to follow you Logan, get out there, 319 00:20:15.829 --> 00:20:19.349 get all over the place a little bit absolutely. Man. Our CEO, 320 00:20:19.430 --> 00:20:23.940 James, just posting about how we're enabling our team to get five of 321 00:20:25.059 --> 00:20:29.980 our team members posting every single day on linked in. So just flooding folks, 322 00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:33.380 so good to hear you're doing the same, man, and Paul is 323 00:20:33.420 --> 00:20:34.970 a great dude. Paul, if you're listening to this, he did a 324 00:20:36.049 --> 00:20:38.569 fantastic episode with me before. He is he's a great dude. I know 325 00:20:38.650 --> 00:20:44.009 he was part of the linkedin sales stars round up with Scott Ingram. Got 326 00:20:44.049 --> 00:20:48.250 To reconnect with him recently anyhow, Tom so glad we got to connect. 327 00:20:48.650 --> 00:20:52.359 Shout out to Josh Roth, who connected us all fine a while back. 328 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.119 Another great dude, someone you should be following on Linkedin if you are in 329 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:59.559 sales, development, sales or just want to get better in your career in 330 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:03.160 any aspect. Tom Thank you so much for being my guest on the show 331 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:04.750 today. Man, yeah, log it's been the pleasure. I will speak 332 00:21:04.789 --> 00:21:11.029 too soon, but thanks. 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