Can a SaaS Startup Afford to Build a Media Company? | The Journey

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B Growth. 2 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:21.000 Welcome to the journey here on B TWOB Growth, where we're documenting our journey 3 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:25.399 of turning B two B growth into every BDB marketers favorite media brand and how 4 00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:30.800 you can do the same for your market I'm joined today by Dan Sanchez, 5 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:34.960 the executive producer of GDP Growth, and my name is James Carberr. I'm 6 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:39.560 the founder of suet Fish and so today Dan, we're talking about thinking about 7 00:00:39.640 --> 00:00:44.640 your media as an asset. Talk to us about why is this something that 8 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:47.560 we're talking about here. When you think about marketing, you don't really think 9 00:00:47.560 --> 00:00:54.200 about how the marketing has value, right You're like ads are here today, 10 00:00:54.399 --> 00:01:00.679 gone tomorrow. Brochure's collateral advertisements. Most content marketing is kind of here today, 11 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:06.359 gone tomorrow. One social post, it's gone, it's dead. But 12 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:08.719 what if you could create a media asset that actually has value in and of 13 00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:12.719 itself, Like if you remove your products from it and walk move that away, 14 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:19.439 is it worth something Often think of like a capital expense of some kind. 15 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:22.560 If I buy a tractor from my farm, Well that tractors were something 16 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:27.280 if we were to go bankrupt that tractor would be liquidated to pay off the 17 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:32.120 debts. It's a capital expense. I almost wonder if we should be approaching 18 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:38.799 media more like creating a capital expense something that has value in and of itself. 19 00:01:38.439 --> 00:01:42.000 And I think if you approach it that way, you end up creating 20 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:47.959 something that is just does better marketing in the long run because it has unique 21 00:01:47.959 --> 00:01:53.439 I P and more importantly, has attention. Because that's really what makes media 22 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:57.120 worthwhile, right if people are paying attention to it, if people really care 23 00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:02.159 about it, And that's what makes Mickey Mouse so valuable, right, people 24 00:02:02.599 --> 00:02:07.480 recognize it, look for it, and pay money for it just because it's 25 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:12.039 freaking Mickey. What could be doing to be doing with our brands that it's 26 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:15.240 actually has an expense item? You know, it actually could be seen in 27 00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:17.759 the p n L as or at the p and L the balance sheet as 28 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:21.759 an asset in and of itself. So that's what I wanted to talk about 29 00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:23.879 today, is like all the ways it can be seen like that. Yeah, 30 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:28.080 So I think the way we're starting to talk a lot about b TWOB 31 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:31.080 growth is I used to be very against trying to monetize BDB growth. I 32 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:37.560 was very romantic about B two B growths value to sweet Fish being that it 33 00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:40.319 is building affinity towards sweet Fish and that it's ultimately going to drive customers. 34 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:45.639 But I'm starting to change my tune a lot actually on this and really starting 35 00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:49.319 to think going into three, I think this will likely even be an annual 36 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:53.960 objective for sweet Fish is figuring out how to monetize me to be growth. 37 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:58.080 I was talking to an influencer in the marketing space, very well known guy, 38 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:00.120 and he was like, James, I think B TWOB growth, what 39 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:02.439 you're sitting on right now could be a twenty million dollar company in and of 40 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:07.199 itself. That seems a little aggressive to me. He also earlier in the 41 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:10.240 conversations throughout the number six millions. So thinking about B two B growth as 42 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:16.280 a multimillion dollar asset that could potentially do more revenue than our agency does is 43 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:21.840 really interesting. And so the last several weeks have been thinking through how does 44 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:25.400 that actually happen? Is it through affiliate sales, is it through advertising? 45 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:31.840 Is it through bundling together researches. It look like doing content series within BDWOB 46 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:36.439 growth where martech companies that are trying to reach our audience, we do a 47 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:40.560 six part series where we help them editorially figure out what are their points of 48 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:45.199 view? How can those points of view be communicated in a compelling way. 49 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:49.360 And because we have the audience and they don't, they obviously there's gonna be 50 00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:52.560 a fee associated with them getting a six part series on GDP. Growth. 51 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:55.360 With how we're thinking about content franchises, can we start to monetize some of 52 00:03:55.360 --> 00:04:01.719 these content franchises, So the Journey Echo Chamber Original Research content franchise, those 53 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:08.800 are currently not being monetized directly because those are just affinity building plays for us 54 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:13.840 to hopefully be able to get people over to using sweet Fish services. But 55 00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:17.120 if we were to do another content franchise and it was in partnership with a 56 00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:21.720 company around their points of view that served, we truly believe that this is 57 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:25.759 not just a veiled sales which this is actually a really compelling point of view. 58 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:30.920 I'm seeing companies like Partner Hacker do this really really well. And I 59 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:32.639 don't want to share their revenue numbers here, but they've shared with me in 60 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:36.439 the six months that they've started, I mean, they've got significant revenue just 61 00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:43.600 through this brand new media property that they've built in partner Hacker focused on UH 62 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:46.639 this audience of like pursuing partnerships for their businesses. So that's why I'm starting 63 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:50.560 to think about the monetization of B TWOB growth because I think that's the first 64 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:55.279 step. It's actually how to generate revenue for it to be seen as the 65 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:58.199 capital expense. What are your thoughts there, Dan, Let's talk about some 66 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:00.720 of the advantages of these like more B two B audiences, and they're gonna 67 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:03.480 be smaller. But at the same time, if you think about how you 68 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:06.160 might be able to monetize a niche B two BE audience. You know, 69 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:14.480 if you have if you have the corner on senior managers of UH technical manufacturing 70 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:17.000 or something weird like that, and you have attention of a good percentage of 71 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:23.639 the market share on their attention, isn't that worth more than a general consumer 72 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:27.920 audience? Right? You probably could leverage more than thirty dollars per thousand views 73 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.199 on that. Right, it's gonna come out of higher multiple because their decision 74 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:35.639 makers with much higher buying ability. Right, So even in just ads alone, 75 00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:40.399 you can build something bigger. And if you have a multi channel media 76 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:43.519 property, you know you've got a podcast, a blog, and a good 77 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:47.199 social channel spending somewhere. Shoot, you got a newsletter and you can bundle 78 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:51.120 the heck out of that and be like, you can create all kinds of 79 00:05:51.199 --> 00:05:56.920 weird sponsorship, not weird, but cool sponsorship opportunities that could come out of 80 00:05:56.920 --> 00:06:00.439 pretty high multiple. Maybe not high enough to pay for all the hunting you're 81 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:02.319 putting out there, but it starts to get actually pretty close. Like I've 82 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:05.560 been doing the math and how you might be able to use ads, maybe 83 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:10.160 some affiliates of some related products that you can just sell and get commissions for, 84 00:06:10.839 --> 00:06:12.839 and of course, like James said, making in some of your own 85 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:15.920 smaller products. Maybe even if it's if your content gets to the point where 86 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:19.680 it gets good enough having a premium membership where people are paying for less ads 87 00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:25.519 and more some premium content like research reports or something like that. The fun 88 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:28.560 part is is there's just not a lot of competition for these smaller B two 89 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:31.399 B audiences that are doing that are approaching it like a media company. Sure 90 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:35.839 there's lots of tech companies or blogs cater towards these people, but not full 91 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:42.879 media properties towards just these small niche B two B audiences directors. How hard 92 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:46.079 does it really take to win their attention. Yeah, it's like there's tons 93 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:50.319 of them out there. Who's creating the media property of choice for these small 94 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:54.959 audiences? Yeah, yeah, I don't think there are very many people doing 95 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:59.639 that. And I've thought too about the traditional way that media companies look at 96 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:04.639 CPMs cost per million and for a podcast audience to get thirty five dollars for 97 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:10.600 every thousand downloads just doesn't make sense when you're talking about if those thousand people 98 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:15.879 are funeral directors and you've got a CRM for funeral directors, that getting in 99 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:20.439 front of a thousand funeral directors. If you're selling a six thousand dollar a 100 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:27.040 c v CRM, that thirty five dollars to reach a thousand of those people 101 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:30.800 is asinine. It's ridiculous. I mean, you'd pay ten x, maybe 102 00:07:30.800 --> 00:07:35.000 twenty x what that the typical CPM is. So I think in B two 103 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:40.720 B we've got to be challenging the traditional advertising rates because when you look at 104 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:46.279 folks like The Hustle and Morning Brew, they're trying to reach massive audiences and 105 00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:50.199 the CRM for funeral directors is not trying to reach the scale of audience that 106 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:55.839 those other media brands are. And so if we just translate how existing media 107 00:07:55.920 --> 00:08:00.519 brands media companies are monetizing, it's not going to translate very well. And 108 00:08:00.600 --> 00:08:03.319 so to your friend, I think we talked about this in the last episode, 109 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:07.040 Dan, who said, you know, media company models are just so 110 00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:11.519 it's so hard to make money as a media company. But I think if 111 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:15.120 we change the narrative a bit, and we started challenging brands that are building 112 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:20.839 media brands to say, throw out the industry standard pricing for how you're thinking 113 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:26.079 about charging for an AD and actually right size it to the true value that 114 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:28.759 someone is getting. Because our audience on BDWOB growth, we've got over eight 115 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:33.480 thousand people that are B two B marketing leaders. You don't listen to B 116 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:35.840 t B growth if you if you don't care deeply about B two B marketing, 117 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:39.840 because that's all we freaking talk about, and so the value of that 118 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:43.519 audience is much richer. Um, you've got a couple other points here around 119 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:48.320 negotiating partnerships and and promoting yourself in the media company. Do you want to 120 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:50.200 touch on those a little bit down before we wrap up here. Yeah, 121 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:54.840 absolutely, Because partnerships is a big thing. Right, We all like to 122 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:58.440 work with other people, and there's lots of leverage to be had by going 123 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:03.519 in with um people trying to go after the same audience but have different products 124 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:09.879 to sell. And there's times when you can bring your media to the door 125 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:13.039 to negotiate better partnerships for you. I mean, the fun one I go 126 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:16.600 to is this B two S one because everybody knows it is when pis are 127 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:22.000 worked with Disney to get their first I don't know, a half dozen films 128 00:09:22.039 --> 00:09:26.679 out the window because Disney had the distribution and they had a lot more than 129 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:28.720 attention. They had like distribution pipelines to get all these movies out, But 130 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:33.360 a big part of it was just Disney had attention. Disney had the attention 131 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:39.519 at the executive level of all the different media companies and the attention of a 132 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:43.279 whole you know, population in order to market this thing through. So when 133 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:50.360 Disney is putting out these co branded movies, people are paying attention, and 134 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:52.000 we could be doing the same thing. We could be the Disney, right, 135 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:56.559 we could be the ones with the attention so that when other people want 136 00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:58.519 to come and do work with us, and often people approach B to be 137 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:01.000 growth all the time saying Hey, we'd love to get in front of your 138 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:03.080 audience. What would it take, Like, well, I don't know. 139 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:07.639 Maybe instead of charging them, we could just leverage something they have and work 140 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:11.879 together. You know, it just creates more opportunities and you get to figure 141 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:13.840 out how you want to use those opportunities, maybe to monetize, maybe to 142 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:16.720 leverage something that they're doing is school. You might be able to get in 143 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:18.919 front of some of their audiences, right, because what kind of like the 144 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:24.240 YouTuber is doing collaborations in order to grow their audiences, So you can use 145 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.519 your audience in order to get other things that you need. I've seen Gary 146 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:31.200 Ve do this really well, right, He's done lots of trades. He's 147 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:33.960 like, hey, in order for a tweet for me or to get on 148 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:37.679 get on my show and ask Gary V, does anybody sell this? I'd 149 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:41.200 love to do a trade. People call him up and give them the stuff 150 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:45.559 and they get mentioned somewhere. Right, does it cost him anything to put 151 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:48.159 that out there? No, it's like he's just selling air He's getting free 152 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:52.840 stuff for just air time because it's valuable and it's worth it. Right, 153 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:58.799 So you can use your attention to wheel and deal and get more things than 154 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:01.879 just monetary value, more more things than just selling your own stuff, which 155 00:11:01.879 --> 00:11:05.120 that's kind of the main purpose is that, But partnerships are all over the 156 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:09.720 place because again, when you have the attention, you get the opportunity. 157 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:15.360 And then the last piece here was using the media brand to obviously sell your 158 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:18.799 product, to sell your service. I think this is the most traditional viewpoint 159 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:22.200 here. I mean, that's how content marketing was kind of born out of 160 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.600 trying to create helpful stuff so that people ultimately want to buy your thing. 161 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:28.840 So I don't know that we need to go down this rabbit hole too much. 162 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:33.799 I think people are already thinking about media brands in this way. What 163 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:37.519 I really want to challenge folks to think about is, so this is some 164 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:41.720 of the more non traditional rethink how you can charge for the attention that you've 165 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:46.759 garnered with your media brand, How can you monetize it in different ways outside 166 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:50.480 of selling your own product or service? Anything else you wanted to touch on 167 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:54.639 before we wind it down down, just that there's so many different ways you 168 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:58.759 can leverage an audience, and there's so many different ways to monetize it, 169 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:01.559 not only with your own products, with other people's products and to leverage better, 170 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:07.559 get better buying the partnerships that it deserves a place in the balance sheet 171 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:13.080 as a capital expense. It's worth seeing it that way and seeing the value 172 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:18.720 of attention because it is something that has a value not just today but for 173 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:22.600 the future. If anybody's listening to this and you know how to value a 174 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:26.399 media company, it is something I very much want to figure out how to 175 00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:30.679 do for us at b twob growth because I want to put me to be 176 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:33.200 growth on our balance sheet that sweet fish, and I want to start having 177 00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:37.000 the conversation with our clients that hey, you should not just be measuring our 178 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:41.120 success for your media brand based on the number of leads you got from your 179 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:43.360 show. That's going to happen, and that's certainly a part of it, 180 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:48.240 but we want our clients valuing our service in terms of the value we've created 181 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.720 on their balance sheet through the media brand that we've produced. Um and so 182 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:56.320 we've got to figure out what's the methodology we're gonna use. Clearly, HubSpot 183 00:12:56.320 --> 00:12:58.360 gets to evaluation of somewhere. I've heard a lot of people talk about the 184 00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:03.720 hustle being valued around I don't think Sam has actually come out and said that 185 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:07.279 that's what he got for it. But business inside are buying morning Brew for 186 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:11.240 sellon. These companies got to these valuations somehow, and so they're not just 187 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:13.960 coming out of thin air. So if if you have any insight on on 188 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:16.559 how to do that, I would love to hear from you, James at 189 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:22.000 sweet Fish Media dot com. But that is it for today's Journey episode. 190 00:13:22.039 --> 00:13:26.720 Remember there are a whole lot of ways to win. Just gets accelerated when 191 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:31.000 you start talking about media and you incorporate media into your game plan. But 192 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:35.000 commodity content is the enemy, and we want you to focus on affinity over 193 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:39.879 awareness. You can find all things Bob Growth at b TWOB Growth Show dot 194 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:54.840 com and connect with us over on LinkedIn as well. We're out. We're 195 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:58.960 always excited to have conversations with leaders on the front lines of marketing. If 196 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:03.799 there's a marketing director or a chief marketing officer that you think we need to 197 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:07.000 have on the show, reach out. Email me Benji dot Block at sweet 198 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:09.919 Fish Media dot com. I look forward to hearing from you.