Transcript
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Hey Friends, welcome into another episode
of be to be growth. My name
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is Benjie Block, your host,
and today is part two of our conversation
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around the audience growth fly wheel.
So on Tuesday's episode we shared part one,
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which is all taken from a live
event recently held by Dan Sanchez and
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Logan Lyles. In that first part
we covered content optimization, its original research,
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thought leadership, promise development. Go
check that out if you have not
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listened to that yet. Today we're
going to cover distribution and conversion optimization,
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the second part of that live event. So there's going to be talk about
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Linkedin ads and sponsored podcasts and podcast
websites, email list development. Great content
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here for us to learn and Glean
from. There's some Qa and so just
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thought it would be really valuable for
us to repurpose that that live event here
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on be tob growth. So,
without further ADO, here's the second half
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of that conversation all around the audience
growth fly wheel. Enjoy. Let's jump
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in. Distribution. Man, I
get in debates about this one, but
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if I when I'm doing distribution,
I like to start with Linkedin adds.
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I find they're cheaper, cheaper than
facebook adds. Specifically not in the view
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per like costper one thousand views,
but in a way it is, because
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you can target the exact accounts you'd
like to get in front of. And
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what I like to do is take
the content that we're producing from the episodes,
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turn them into micro videos and then
target the exact accounts and the rolls
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within those accounts. In linkedin adds
you can actually upload the exact companies you'd
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like to target, the three hundred, four hundred, five hundred business names
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that you'd like to be in front
of. I know for sweetfish, I
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just go into crunch base pull a
couple filters about which companies are kind of
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like the right size and the right
kind of company in the Tech Company like
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we pull a bunch of different filters. Maybe if they've raised some capital recently.
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We pull a list of five hundred
people and I could just take those
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names uploading the Linkedin linkedin's like,
Yep, who within those companies do you
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want to run adds to? And
I'm like, Yep, marketing directors,
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VP's of marketing, senior marketing managers. Right, it's the best way to
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get your content in front of the
exact people you want to influence when nobody
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else, unlike facebook adds or Google
ads or Youtube ads, you're going to
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be in front of a lot of
people that are just it's not going to
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be relevant for you right, which
is a problem of the Internet we run
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into all the time. We're always
being we're always seeing ads that just don't
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really apply to us. On linkedin
you can kind of slow down the I
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don't know what is bombomb call it
the digital pollution. I was literally typing
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about the I saw the trailer for
their documentary. Shout out to Ethan.
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I think Ethan Butt is on on
the call today, even if you got
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a link to the trailer you guys
for. I believe it's called dear first
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name, and it's addressing addressing the
problem of digital pollution and in the trailer
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talking about attention. Is that a
premium now? So anyway, segue.
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But yeah, go for it in
the best way to get attention as by
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getting the right content front of the
right people. And we know it's the
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right content because we've asked so many
of them, dozens of them, about
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what they're thinking about, what their
obstacles are, what their wins are,
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what they're how their bosses, evaluating
their success, so we know exactly what's
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in their minds and we can develop
thought, leadership and points of view and
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rapid in such a way that it
becomes much more attractive. We'd put we
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create full episodes of them and split
those episodes down to a little tiny micro
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videos. The thirty two to three
minute videos, when they're well captioned and
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have good titles, are the best
way to get in front of the audience.
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You're actually giving them the answers right
there. You're not calling them to
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click over and to go through some
gated content. No, you're just giving
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it to them in full, right
there in the feed where they're spending their
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time. A lot of them are
on Linkedin. You Do, I still
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like to have a CTA, though, one in the video and then boom,
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right underneath the video, of course, just listen to the full episode.
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They're getting a little view here,
a little the best chunk of the
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episode, the best highlight, but
they want more. I like to lead
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them to the full episode and we
could talk about where they go and what
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they do after they click through.
But if there's still some more AD budget
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to go, I do like to
retarget with facebook and instagram because it is
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cheaper there. The problem is you
can't usually control to the same degree who
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your ads are in front of.
But if you're only using it for retargeting,
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you can save some money and get
more ad impressions with more creative by
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retargeting with facebook and Instagram, because
we know either on those platforms to yeah,
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we need a name for this.
It's like your version of the Texas
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to step Dan lead with Linkedin adds
and then we'll talk about this more in
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the conversion optimization, but you kind
of alluded to it there. Don't send
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people with the ads you're running for
your show to apple. Send them to
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a website the dedicated for the show
because of this second step that you can
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do to stay in front of them
with with lower cost ads. So retargeting,
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Linkedin, add traffic, more microvit
same content, just more of it.
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Of course you're cycling through is,
you're doing more episode, you're creating
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more micro videos, call the action
to listen to the full episode and,
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lastly, sponsoring other podcasts, because
you want to fish where the fish are,
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and so it's a lot easier to
get more podcast subscribers if you're sub
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if you're advertising or sponsoring shows,
were podcast listeners are, because not everybody
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listens to podcast right. I'll I'm
the majority of people do these days,
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but not everybody does. So we
like to use a stool tool called spark
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Toro where you can actually plug in
like here I put in a peep people
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that talk about bedb marketing, and
then I filtered it by podcast and it
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gave me a list of podcasts that
I could go and just approach the host.
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Their emails are usually fairly available to
just shoot him an email and be
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like hey, I'd love to sponsor
some episodes. How much to sponsor your
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next for right, and then just
working out with them. You'd find.
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I find that it's fairly under priced
for the amount of downloads they're getting per
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episode, especially the smaller podcasts that
aren't like super popular. There's some gold
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nuggets down in the bottom where you
can actually be getting under priced attention by
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sponsoring their podcast and they're usually thrilled
and hardly ever get request to actually sponsor
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their content if they're not a big
show. So you can get some great
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deals. It does take some manual
work of reaching out, recording some content
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to hand over to them or having
a host read ad to advertise your show.
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But it's a very, really effective
way and usually get under priced attention
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this way. Absolutely you know it's
targeted right because of the genre or the
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category of the show. But,
as Dan said, you you don't know
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when you're running linked it ads whether
these people, you know, listen to
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many shows, whether they're an active
podcast listener. Here there's a little bit
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of friction right because they've got to
go to the show notes and click it
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or they've got us search your your
name. But if it's a host read
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ad, I mean one, they're
already listening to podcast. So you've narrowed
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your field even more. And most
people who listen to shows are actively like
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we go through cycles right, like
I'm kind of sick of the show for
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a while, it's getting stale,
they don't have a compelling premise and you're
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looking for that next show that you
want to subscribe to. If you hear
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a show mentioned on another show,
I would just encourage you, as you
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work out the deals with the other
shows, have the host just say hey,
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just just search the name of the
show. You're in apple podcast right
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now or you're in spotify right now. So there's more friction, but there's
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also less and you're targeting the right
people. Plus, sparked Touro is really
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cool. You can search based on
what people are talking about, the hashtags
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they follow, as well as what
people use in their profile. So there's
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a few different ways to slice indise
your filters there. And then the other
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thing. Dan Kind of touched on
this. You most podcasts are going to
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under price their ad inventory, quote
unquote, and they're also going to say
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yes more often, because if you
have a show, you know what do
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you get? You get a lot
of guest pitches. What do you not
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get as often someone reaching out and
saying, Hey, I want to give
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you money for your show, right, and so people tend to respond.
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Plus, you build a relationship with
the host, which is valuable in it
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of itself. And if you're wondering
who to reach out to, they're probably
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going to tell you with one of
the five magic questions. Right, what
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publication or influencer is the most influential
to your work right now? It's probably
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a good place to start. See
if that influencer will let you sponsor there,
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their show or even their social content. If that's if they don't have
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like a podcast or something, your
customers will just start giving you names of
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people to go after. So distributions
a sort of short section because it's kind
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of short and simple. Use Linkedin
retarget with facebook. Have some extra time
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or money, SPONSORSO podcast. That's
the best way to grow an audience and
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actually get distribution for your content.
Any questions in the feed Logan? You
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know we've got. We've got one
here. Can you share a little more?
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WHAT IS SPARK TORO? Is this
a good place also to find where
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to guess on other shows? So
let me hit the start answering. So
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we time this. We're a little
bit more about sparked Toro. So this
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is a tool by Rand Fishkin.
It's been around for a bit and I
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would say that it continues to get
better with each evolution. Beyond just finding
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podcasts in a category that are ranked
based on categories like be marketing or healthcare
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or it, it gives you press
accounts, it gives you a highly so
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highly followed social accounts, highly visited
websites and youtube channels. I forget if
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I said that are already, but
it is beyond podcasting. It's it's helping
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you find where is the attention in
my niche already right, and when you
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pair that with, as Dan said, one of your five magic questions,
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you've got a really great targeted shortlist
of partnerships, ads to go place,
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places to find where you want,
where you want to focus there. It
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is also a good place to find
places to guests. So you know there
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are some some companies you can hire
to do that for you. One of
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our partners speak on podcasts. Is
just speak on podcasts plural with an s
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on the endcom they've got a great
service for helping you get placed on other
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shows. But that is another way. The reason we like ads is it's
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a little bit easier to get the
yeses and it's less time investment from from
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your team. But if you are
able to do that one to punch,
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it's going to be really effective.
Again, did I miss anything else?
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On Spark Toro for context, I'd
say the only other thing to keep in
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mind is, and it's kind of
hard to see on this slide, but
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there's a percentage of audience for each
show and I don't know exactly how they
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know this and it's probably a rough
estimate, but even here. I put
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in beat people who were talk about
be to be marketing and it has the
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growth show. Thirty six percent of
people who talk about be to be marketing
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are listening to the growth show.
Now it's interesting here is people talking about
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be to be marketing. Like the
one obvious podcast that should be here that's
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not here is the like is this
stated Dimandain, but it doesn't show up
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at all. So I'm like,
it's not perfect, but it's pretty good.
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It's probably the best I've seen for
identifying like who's listening to what?
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I thought you were going to give
a shameless plug for be to be growth.
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We make the list to Y'all need. We're like a top word,
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top sixty five on that list,
and he's probably like twenty six at the
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list right now. Yeah, awesome. All right, let's move on to
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the next one. So we've got
another question from Philip. What have you
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seen regarding expectations of Kpis on Linkedin
campaigns? Dan, do you want to
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speak to this? Sorry, with
Kpis? Yeah, what to what to
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expect as far as cost per acquisition, those sorts of metrics on a paid
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campaign on Linkedin? Absolutely, I'm
I'm almost always measuring. I'm not measuring
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per acquisition, on measuring based on
consumption playthrough rates. I want people to
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actually consume the content. I'm on
optimizing and killing content that doesn't get the
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playthrough rates. Generally I find when
the play through rates go through, people
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are clicking through, but it got
shit wanges pretty wildly, though. Follow
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up with me, book some time
and then we can look at it together.
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Yeah, you make a good point. Fill up about saying, okay,
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click through rate expectations were set with
you about five percent. I think
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we're going to be doing more and
more testing as we're running this fly wheel
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for customers and have more to be
able to speak to their Dan kind of
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alluded to something else you can do
as far as and that x is a
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little bit of a side Bar,
but a lot of people don't realize that
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you can look at more than just
your streams or downloads when it comes to
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your podcast analytics. Depending on whether
you use soundered FM or another hook platform.
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They met calm streams or downloads,
but one thing to look at is
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the playthrough rate. So if you
go to podcasts CONNECTCOM, go to your
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show in Apple podcast, it will
actually rely show you. Okay, on
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average this episode people lasted for sixty
percent of the episode. So if you're
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running a lot of ads to to
an episode and that episode has a very
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low playthrough rate, then you want
to adjust your strategy a little bit.
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Maybe it just your your content planning
for the next few episodes as well.
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So you can get a lot from
not only looking at the click through rate
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on Linkedin, but then also the
playthrough right of the episodes. fantastics for
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any more questions in a section.
That was it. We got those two,
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so we can sun of the final
one. It's do it the fun
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one, and this is where the
debate starts. Conversion optimization. It's my
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recommendation that we everybody builds their own
separate podcast website, separate from the main
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what I'm calling a sales website.
So you can see here I have like
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a snapshot of Gongs Page and I
have a snapshot of wireds page. It's
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a very different experience from one to
the other. Gong simple, clean.
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What do you see? INFOT sized
here? Book a Demo, see it
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in action, unlock reality. Fuel
your revenue engine. It's selling the product,
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as it freaking should right it's a
sales page. It's supposed to generate
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leads, good leads, leads that
are well informed, leads that are clear.
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The pricing page needs to be prominent. People care about the company.
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Of course there's some resources of product, there's customers, like everything is,
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sales site should have. But I
don't know about you. I've been hearing
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about people talk about being a media
company, like your marketing should be like
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a media company for over a decade
now, but if you look at a
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we media's sites homepage, it's a
very different experience. Content, all kinds
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of content, most recent top picks, big, highlighted, easy to click
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on, call the action, subscribe
categories across the top. It's optimizing for
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consumption and subscription, which is why
I think it's worth building a separate website
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for your podcast and, in the
long term, maybe making it a little
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bit bigger than a podcast. Maybe
you have your blog content there too,
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maybe you have your infographics there and
your videos there. Essentially build a whole
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media site, and there's some ways
to speed it up and make it easier
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that I could talk about at the
end. But you can optimize it for
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audience growth by making your content more
discoverable and making it a mixed media outlet.
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You can essentially optimize it it in
a way that you can't optimize the
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sales site, which is going to
be optimized for sales. A media site
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can be optimized for audience. The
call to actions can be different. The
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whole approach to the site's going to
be different, and that's why I think
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it's worth building a whole separate website
just for your podcast if you want to
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learn more about how to build a
better content strategy by having a different website.
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Actually built the whole deck. You
can just quickly click through it.
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If you go to sweet fish mediacom
slash site to you can see my my
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slide deck, which goes at length
at this because it's not easy, right.
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It's more resources. It's a separate
site to maintain, more wordpress or
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another site at least. You have
to style and deal with and you don't
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know. Sometimes brand teams or tech
teams don't want to have to deal with
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the separate site. I know,
I get it, but this is a
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compelling case for why a second site. It also gives you a place to
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send all that ad traffic. It
makes it a lot easier to convert to
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the right thing. And you're like, well, but I maybe I want
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them to convert to a demo.
But let's be honest, they're not going
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to convert to a demo yet,
but they might subscribe to your podcast right,
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and we do want them to subscribe
either by clicking through to their podcast
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player of choice, itunes, Google, spotify. But we also want to
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optimize for emails development, because with
emails development we're actually getting to true owned
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media. Actually, have thought a
lot about owned media and I find it
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there's three different love les of owned
media and if had to give them names,
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because I've felt like there's a lot
of people talking about it, I've
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I call them semi owned media,
Co owned media and fully owned media.
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Some of the differences are like social
media, Linkedin, twitter, I call
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them semi owned because you don't own
the direct relationship with them. You can't
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take your twitter followers and pull them
into linkedin. You can't take your linkedin
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followers and pull them into youtube.
Right. They're owned by the platform,
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but it's not paid medias. You
don't have to pay to be in from
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it's not earned media. I don't
have to ask someone else's permission to get
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in front of them. But there
is an algorithm in between us and another
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entity called Linkedin or twitter. There's
also co owned media, right. It's
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what I'm calling essentially youtube and and
podcast specifically. Right, there's not an
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algorithm in between you and your fan
base, but there is this entity called
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apple or spotify, and then fully
owned media, where there's no algorithm in
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between you and there's not a platform. You can literally take your email list
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from hub spot upload it to active
campaign or mail chimp or something else.
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You can take it with you.
It's not tech platform dependent and when you're
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developing an audience it's good to have
a mix of these kinds of mediums acrossed
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semi owned, Co owned and fully
owned. The podcast is going to be
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your co owned but you want to
create a base of a fully owned medium
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and I find email to be the
best way to do that, especially when
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building a podcast audience. So what
does that look like? I find see
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if this next led. Yeah,
with email list development. You can build
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you can you essentially use your original
content to give you content for your email,
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because even though you're asking those five
magic questions for your own Sake,
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so that you can develop better content
generally people's peers. Want to hear the
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answers to that too. As a
marketer, I want to know what other
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marketers are running into as an obstacle. I would know what their biggest ones
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are. I want to know what
other marketers are being held accountable to by
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their boss. That's interesting content,
but you don't have to publish it with
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an episode. You can hold it
back, put it in a maybe a
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text format and deliver it as an
email list at content and then it becomes
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kind of cyclical. In fact.
Logan, can you explain a little bit
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how the email list in the podcast
work together? That was something that was
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kind of your brain child and it
was. I thought it was brilliant as
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soon as you said it. Well, if it was brilliant, it's because
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I stole it from somewhere else.
So I saw this with some youtube channels
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and Youtube content creators. That said, you know, kind of cut off
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the end of an interview and say
hey, if you want this, sign
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up for the the you know membership
that we have to our our content behind
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our pay wall right or hey,
this is only available to patreon subscribers,
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not just youtube subscribers, or I
think you can have members on youtube channels
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now as well. Anyway. Anyhow, I thought let's translate that to podcasts,
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right. And so, Hey,
we've got the five magic questions.
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You can name them your fast five
or something more creative that aligns with the
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premise and the themes of your show. But you could wrap it up somehow
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like this, like hey, Dan, this was fantastic. Thanks for talking
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about the audience growth fly wheel on
BB growth today. You and I are
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going to hang on. I'm going
to ask you five of our burning questions
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in one of them. I'm really
excited to hear your answer to that.
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DA, right, for everybody listening, this wraps up the podcast episode.
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But if you are an email subscriber
of BB growth, you're going to get
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an email with these five questions and
every time we ask them, of a
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guest post interview. And so what
you're doing is teeing up some exclusive content.
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You're giving people a reason to give
you their email address, not just
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say hey, give us a five
star rating, leave us a root review
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on Apple podcast, subscribe, share
with a friend, oh and sign up
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via email with no value. Right. Oh, we're going to email you
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every time in episode goes live,
but you're giving them a reason to sign
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up via email and then in your
email campaigns that nurture people that are subscribed
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the email to the show, you're
giving them the five and you say hey,
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you want to listen to the whole
episode. And so it becomes this
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little mini fly wheel within the fly
wheel where the podcast drives email and email
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drives the podcast even more, and
round and round it goes podcast to email,
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back to podcast, and you're creating
a mixed owned media mix right where
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you can have a more sustainable owned
media audience that way. And it all
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comes back down to that original research, because not only does it drive your
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your weekly or however often your podcast
getting published email, but it also can
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build more substantial content like a quarterly
report. Right. You can take all
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their answers and publish them in one
source and actually add a little bit of
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insight to it, a little bit
of narrative and understanding as you're interpreting it,
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and that becomes a substantial piece that
you can also give away to your
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email subscribers. In fact, I
and I know there's a big push against
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gated content, so you can choose
whether to gate this or not, but
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I would get it so that the
email subscribers get this. Of course they
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can always unsubscribe and all that kind
of stuff. So I know there's a
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debate in the community. You can
choose whether you get this or not.
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I would get it as a way
to get more people in the email and
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consuming the information there. And the
cool thing is we talked about this being
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a fly wheel. So the more
more original research you do, the better
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the thought leadership gets, the tighter
the premise can get, the e the
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more conversions you're going to get on
that distribution, the tighter you can make
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your own media, and round and
round it goes. The more the larger
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the audience at the end, right, the larger the audience means the more
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original research it can do. Maybe
you start introducing some surveys. When you're
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a lat audience gets larger and means
you can tighten up your thought leadership development,
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which means you can probably refine your
premise and your microvideos get better and
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better, and this thing spins round
and round the more you do it.
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So that is the audience growth fly
wheel and I want to make sure we
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wrap up with questions on this last
section, but of certainly questions from the
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whole process and how it might work
together in order to grow your podcast.
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Awesome. Let's dive in. We've
got the most questions here on the content
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conversion, excuse me, conversion optimization
section. So the first question ones the
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the first question from Anna. What
do you think of podcast host website Combo
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providers like captivate? I find that
podcast host websites are lacking. They're just
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not quite good enough. is even
the ones that are like prettier, from
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like captivate sounders, looks pretty good. I just don't find that they have
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enough of what I would want on
it. Like you can't add an about
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page that kind of introduces the the
show, the premise of the show,
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or introduces, like here's the host
of the show with like a little bio.
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I find that those little things actually
make the website worthwhile. And you
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can't add like call the actions on
it right. You can't add a subscribe
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by email only only maybe links to
like apple and spotify, which is good,
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but I think it needs to be
a little bit more. And I
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know there's great solutions out there like
pod page, that make it easy.
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You literally just putting your rss feed
and Bam, it makes a whole website.
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Now, the way, site doesn't
look that great without quite a bit
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of like fine tuning and maybe a
little bit of CSS, but it's a
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lot easier than building all wordpress site
for it. M Yeah, one tool
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we've started to use for some customers
we'd recommend as called pod page. So
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I would check that out. PODPA
GECOM, I think that's their website anyway.
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That you don't want to be good
fun. Yeah, better, better
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than the host, you know,
kind of websites that they have as kind
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of a placeholder. All right,
the next one, let's see, this
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comes from your boy can Dan.
So we started the conversation about what you
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would do if you have a thousand
reading friends. One of those things I'm
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assuming most people would want is to
get them to buy the product eventually.
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Right. That being said, where
do you place the products? If your
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podcast site is optimized for can for
consumption optimization, where do you throw the
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right hooks? Basically, great that
honestly. I think you should make it
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some of your content. I'm I'm
coming. I'm in the the process of
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building a whole podcast around audience growth, launching soon and some of the content
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will be about audience growth, will
be about podcasting, which will lead to
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sweet fish, and I'll be pointing
back to sweet fish with that content.
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So some of your thought leadership content
will directly correlate to what you do.
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But in addition to that, I
think you should have advertisements in your own
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owned media directly for your product.
Almost think about it like if you if
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almost think about it like if you
could, if you could, acquire a
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media company that your audience already loves
just so you could put inserts on like
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insert ads on it. But instead
of acquiring it, you're just building it
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yourself. You're building the media outlet
that your customer wants and then you can
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advertise in it. So stick some
ads into that podcast site, put some
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audio ads into those podcast episodes and
of course you get to control the content
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directly, but it's going to be
covering the topics that your customer cares about
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most. Like I talked yesterday about
like why doesn't? Why doesn't Wallgreens just
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buy webmd? They could have just
built their own to write and then just
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strategically put advertisements for different wallings,
things going on into the content itself.
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And it would have been good instead
of having to pay webmd for it as
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a great example. All right,
let's see. Let's see. Okay.
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Do you send people from the media
site to the company site or is it
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purely an educational and authority play?
So I think this is similar to the
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last question. Right. Where are
the right hooks? You absolutely can in
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the benefit here of having the media
site and the sales website for your company,
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which is just your company's website,
right, is you're not mixing the
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two. For a while we tried
this. We tried to make sweetfish Mediacom
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both a media site and a site
that talked about our service. And guess
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what, I was fielding sales calls
at that point. People came in confused.
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00:28:00.220 --> 00:28:03.180
People didn't know how to book a
sales called. They didn't know what
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we did versus what we didn't do, and it became confusing. Right.
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And so you do want to treat
it just like Dan said. If there's
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another media outlet where you would run
ads for your product, do it the
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same way, right. And so
the site itself, the content itself,
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is a pure authority pet play,
but you can have those ads on the
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site and in the podcast. Just
don't make the content the right hook.
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Don't make the content trying to get
people over to your main site. Make
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it very clear that, like,
Hey, this is this is what we're
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sharing right, but here's where we
can do it for you, right in
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this entire workshop where we run this
audience growth fly wheel for customers. Dan's
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00:28:45.750 --> 00:28:48.869
going to, you know, mention
it, but it has not been.
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This is how you work with sweetish. This is how you do it yourself,
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and so that distinction between where is
the ad and where is the content,
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I think keeping that clear is really
important. So that's that's a good
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00:29:00.460 --> 00:29:06.339
question. All right. Where do
we get signed up for the BB growth
407
00:29:06.500 --> 00:29:11.369
email? Unfortunately, we're we're re
redeveloping be tob growth right now and so
408
00:29:11.609 --> 00:29:17.970
we're rolling this out for for BB
growth soon. So atch stay tuned on
409
00:29:18.089 --> 00:29:22.650
that one. So sorry, non
answer answer. All Right, we've got
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00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:29.079
let's check out this one question from
Josh to sweetfish. have access to our
411
00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:32.640
spotify and apple logins? I'd love
to see our click through rates and more
412
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:41.150
analytics. Yes, we do have
spotify has changed a little bit, but
413
00:29:41.430 --> 00:29:48.950
apple and sounder for sure, and
looking at those analytics on podcast connect applecom.
414
00:29:49.549 --> 00:29:53.819
If you're a sweetfish customer, your
producer can get access there to give
415
00:29:53.859 --> 00:30:02.259
you that information on those playthrough rates
we were talking about earlier. All right,
416
00:30:02.259 --> 00:30:04.420
it seems like there's a lot of
different people involved in this fly wheel.
417
00:30:04.420 --> 00:30:07.809
So this is our last question on
conversion optimization. Then we'll open it
418
00:30:07.849 --> 00:30:11.529
up. If anybody has any questions
they want to ask Dan live, we
419
00:30:11.609 --> 00:30:15.890
can invite you up on screen during
the last five minutes here. All right,
420
00:30:15.890 --> 00:30:18.450
it seems like there's a lot of
different people involved in the flywheel.
421
00:30:18.490 --> 00:30:22.039
At the very least a content person
and the demands in person. How are
422
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:26.160
you building these teams, Dan?
You've been thinking about this as you're building
423
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:30.720
the service for are done for you
audience growth service as sweetfish. What are
424
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.559
the roles? How do you how
do you envision this working? If someone's
425
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:38.029
building an internally, it's sweetfish.
We have two different roles for this.
426
00:30:38.190 --> 00:30:41.230
We have someone who runs paid media, which I think you're calling the demandsions
427
00:30:41.630 --> 00:30:47.390
person, and then again someone who's
not necessarily the content person, but we're
428
00:30:47.430 --> 00:30:52.180
condon the audience growth specialist, someone
who's looking at the answers the person gives
429
00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:57.579
and the magic five questions who is
thinking through the thought leadership, how do
430
00:30:57.619 --> 00:31:00.059
we package our points of view on
it? They don't necessarily have to be
431
00:31:00.099 --> 00:31:03.930
the subject matter experts, though,
since they're working with our customers. They're
432
00:31:03.970 --> 00:31:07.210
just helping them package their own thought
leadership. And then they're working on the
433
00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:11.170
like the owned medias, owned media
sites. So not only they kind of
434
00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:17.009
thinking through thought leadership, but they're
also thinking through the creative for the ads
435
00:31:17.089 --> 00:31:19.759
and the owned the owned media property, so that they can kind of see
436
00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:23.160
the life cycle through. It's a
very generalist role. There's a lot of
437
00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:27.799
little skill sets needed, but generally
I do find that there's some massive benefits
438
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:32.039
for someone who's really good at just
running media all the time through something like
439
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:34.390
Linkedin and facebooks and those kind of
platforms change a lot. If you're not
440
00:31:34.549 --> 00:31:37.869
in them a lot, then it's
really slow in order to run the ADS
441
00:31:37.910 --> 00:31:42.390
and get the optimal bids for your
content out there. So that person is
442
00:31:42.509 --> 00:31:48.900
separate, but the person who's thinking
through the thinking about what creative and what
443
00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:53.380
microvideos depict and what how to title
them and how that traffic is running through
444
00:31:53.420 --> 00:31:59.259
the the site and can we're converting
is one person and is generally a marketing
445
00:31:59.299 --> 00:32:02.450
journalist. What's the most important insight
you focus on when it comes to metrics?
446
00:32:02.529 --> 00:32:07.650
Play through subscribers, comments, interactions. Then you have a good framework
447
00:32:07.690 --> 00:32:10.890
for this. We turned it into
a blog post. Do you want to
448
00:32:10.890 --> 00:32:14.690
speak to this little bit? podcasting
as a whole, what are some of
449
00:32:14.730 --> 00:32:19.880
the key metrics you you look at? I look at consumption. That's that's
450
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:22.000
the game. The more people you
can get consuming your content, the more
451
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.240
they're going to be thinking about you. So a lot of people think about
452
00:32:25.240 --> 00:32:30.670
it in terms of like hard subscriptions, but a subscriber isn't that good that
453
00:32:30.789 --> 00:32:34.750
they churn right. So, like
you could be measuring on new subscribers gain
454
00:32:34.869 --> 00:32:37.589
this month, but how long do
they stay subscribed? Right, if you're
455
00:32:37.589 --> 00:32:40.869
looking at it, for purely from
an email perspective. So what I'm looking
456
00:32:40.869 --> 00:32:47.059
at us, especially for podcasting,
is is my my average amount of downloads
457
00:32:47.099 --> 00:32:51.099
going up, like especially, like
over a seven day period, that the
458
00:32:51.099 --> 00:32:55.019
last episode, is each episode going
up in downloads, or at least on
459
00:32:55.180 --> 00:33:01.250
average going up. And then am
I getting more downloads for a podcast each
460
00:33:01.369 --> 00:33:05.009
month? Because your back catalog starts
to go to work for you. You
461
00:33:05.369 --> 00:33:08.009
might have one micro video that's advertising
a new episode and they go and download
462
00:33:08.049 --> 00:33:12.210
that. What then they start going
back to week months before and down binge
463
00:33:12.289 --> 00:33:15.759
listening to all of them. That
kind of counts in my book as like
464
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:20.079
like success. So I want to
optimize for as much consumption as possible.
465
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:25.359
The email, getting email subscribers is
really only a way to get more consumption.
466
00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:29.630
But I'm not optimizing for the email
because, let's be honestly, I
467
00:33:29.710 --> 00:33:31.309
wanted your email, I could go
get it. I can just go to
468
00:33:31.390 --> 00:33:35.630
your website kind of figure out.
Is it first, first thought that last,
469
00:33:35.950 --> 00:33:37.269
or is it first, initial,
dot last? I'm going to figure
470
00:33:37.269 --> 00:33:40.029
out your email like I don't need
it. But I want you to consume
471
00:33:40.069 --> 00:33:45.059
more content, because the more consonantent
and the better I get it that content
472
00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:46.940
and the more I can get you
to consume it, because not only is
473
00:33:46.980 --> 00:33:51.140
it helpful to you, but you
actually enjoy listening to it. That's a
474
00:33:51.220 --> 00:33:55.809
freaking win, dude, that that
is such an important call out that we're
475
00:33:55.849 --> 00:34:01.089
talking about emails so that you own
it's more owned media and it's not built
476
00:34:01.130 --> 00:34:06.329
on exclusively rented land. But that's
not the point. To just get them
477
00:34:06.369 --> 00:34:09.079
there again where you where you talked
about it. It's to create those raving
478
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:13.000
fans. So it's you've got to
get them there and then you've got to
479
00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:15.679
keep them there. Right. It's
not enough to just gain the attention,
480
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:20.320
you've got to hold it. I
miss typed it in the in the chat,
481
00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:22.960
but it's not about who comes,
it's about who stays, not how
482
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:27.349
stays. So I'm glad I gave
Becker a good laugh on that one.
483
00:34:28.309 --> 00:34:32.630
All right, Dan, what would
you recommend for folks as far as next
484
00:34:32.750 --> 00:34:36.389
APPs? What resources would you point
them to as we wrapped out? And
485
00:34:36.429 --> 00:34:39.500
last couple. So I know this
is a lot of content. Obviously there's
486
00:34:39.500 --> 00:34:42.900
like a lot of points and I
had three points for every one of these
487
00:34:42.940 --> 00:34:46.380
points. So what I'd like to
do is sit down and figure out how
488
00:34:46.420 --> 00:34:50.380
to structure it for your company.
Like I want to do a free thirty
489
00:34:50.420 --> 00:34:52.329
minute consultations with anybody who wants to
sit down with me and figure out,
490
00:34:52.329 --> 00:34:55.050
like, Oh, damn, this
is our podcast, this is our this
491
00:34:55.130 --> 00:35:00.289
is what we have gone on our
website. What would you do? So
492
00:35:00.329 --> 00:35:05.130
over the next month I'm doing these
these thirty minute consultations and I want to
493
00:35:05.170 --> 00:35:07.599
be transparent. We do have a
product around audience growth. But it's my
494
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:13.039
goal to essentially publish as much information
to make it as easy for you and
495
00:35:13.119 --> 00:35:15.599
your team to actually do this,
with or without sweet fish, that we
496
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:19.480
are building and launching a product around
this right now, and I could give
497
00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:22.510
you more information about that if you
want to have help with this system.
498
00:35:22.869 --> 00:35:27.309
But ultimately I want to be as
helpful to you as possible by giving you
499
00:35:27.389 --> 00:35:30.909
the information and even going in and
looking at your stuff and then spending some
500
00:35:30.030 --> 00:35:32.389
time with you to show you how
I would do it, and then you
501
00:35:32.429 --> 00:35:37.860
can hopefully get some value out of
that pass it to your team in order
502
00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:40.420
to implement all or just pieces of
what we talked about today. So you
503
00:35:40.460 --> 00:35:47.539
can go to its sweet fi do
sh Dan. You know it's kind of
504
00:35:47.619 --> 00:35:53.130
my cute little domain hack to get
a short time. That was good.
505
00:35:53.250 --> 00:35:58.650
That was good. All right.
One last question real quick. which part
506
00:35:58.650 --> 00:36:02.489
of the flywheel do you see podcasters
will naturally struggle with the most. All
507
00:36:02.530 --> 00:36:07.679
answer this real quick and then I
want to hear if you differ from me.
508
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:10.159
Don I actually think it's the first
piece. I think it's the content
509
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:15.480
optimization. I think you know,
if you you probably already have a paid
510
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:19.949
digital team. You probably have a
web team. The other pieces you can
511
00:36:20.070 --> 00:36:22.989
do right, but if you're building
this rocket ship and you're not putting good
512
00:36:23.030 --> 00:36:27.110
fuel in it, it's not going
to go anywhere, and so I think
513
00:36:27.150 --> 00:36:31.150
that's probably the part that people struggle
with the most. Would you agree to
514
00:36:31.190 --> 00:36:37.099
absolutely? Yeah, all right.
Well, that's it. All right.
515
00:36:37.139 --> 00:36:39.940
Well, if you want some time
with Dan again, we are building a
516
00:36:40.539 --> 00:36:44.900
service to do this for you.
But I promise you you will not get
517
00:36:44.900 --> 00:36:47.489
a hard pitch from Dan if you
grab some consulting time with him. He's
518
00:36:47.530 --> 00:36:52.969
just not that way and he's been
offering his time to current customers to talk
519
00:36:53.050 --> 00:36:57.650
through how they can do this for
themselves, whether or not you become a
520
00:36:57.730 --> 00:37:00.130
customer and in sign up for that
service, and we want to extend that
521
00:37:00.250 --> 00:37:04.639
to everybody watching this or if you're
watching the replay, hopefully you watched me
522
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.000
at two x, because I think
I sound a lot smarter at two x
523
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:10.280
than I do at one. But
thanks everybody who showed up live and we
524
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:15.070
nail it right on an hour.
If you're not following Dan on Linkedin,
525
00:37:15.309 --> 00:37:19.030
look him up. Make sure you're
following him for more stuff. He's going
526
00:37:19.070 --> 00:37:22.550
to be sharing more and more on
this is we execute the audience growth fly
527
00:37:22.590 --> 00:37:25.389
wheel for customers on an ongoing basis. All right, thanks, everybody,
528
00:37:25.590 --> 00:37:34.900
see you all later. One of
the things we've learned about podcast audience growth
529
00:37:35.059 --> 00:37:38.179
is that word of mouth works.
It works really, really well actually.
530
00:37:38.579 --> 00:37:42.420
So, if you love this show, would be awesome if you texted a
531
00:37:42.500 --> 00:37:45.489
friend to tell them about and if
you send me a text with a screenshot
532
00:37:45.570 --> 00:37:49.969
of the text you sent to your
friend, Metta, I know I'll send
533
00:37:50.010 --> 00:37:52.489
you a copy of my book,
content based networking, how to instantly connect
534
00:37:52.530 --> 00:37:57.769
with anyone wanted. My cell phone
numbers four hundred seven, four nine,
535
00:37:57.769 --> 00:38:00.199
hundred and three and three two eight. Happy texting.