Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.140 --> 00:00:10.160 when you start actually digging into the pain points. It's kind of crazy How 2 00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:14.270 big the numbers are. Millions of families face eviction risk every year, 3 00:00:14.270 --> 00:00:20.330 paying 50 plus billion dollars of delinquent rent. Welcome to the revenue 4 00:00:20.330 --> 00:00:25.850 Siris on B two b growth. I'm your host. John Grossman, founder and sales coach 5 00:00:25.940 --> 00:00:31.680 at Early Revenue. Let's get going today. I'm here with David Sullivan, founder 6 00:00:31.680 --> 00:00:37.200 and CEO at Till. Welcome, David. Hey, thanks so much, John. Thanks for having 7 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:41.440 me super excited to have you here, so let's just level set. We, uh Our guests 8 00:00:41.440 --> 00:00:46.380 are CEOs, revenue leaders and venture firms. And our purpose here is to 9 00:00:46.380 --> 00:00:51.480 provide early stage tech founders and their sales leaders insights and best 10 00:00:51.480 --> 00:00:56.180 practices on really two topics that air top of mind for most leaders. The 11 00:00:56.180 --> 00:01:03.570 houses of growing Roseanne exhales and fundraising. So let us get to it. 12 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:07.120 Thanks again for being here, David. Why don't you start off by telling us a 13 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:10.960 little bit about you and your background? Yeah. Yeah, sure. So I 14 00:01:10.960 --> 00:01:17.260 started till about two years ago in 2018, and I started it. It tills works 15 00:01:17.260 --> 00:01:21.790 in the rental housing space, and I started it as a result of two different 16 00:01:21.790 --> 00:01:26.600 backgrounds. So, first I spent about five years building a single family 17 00:01:26.600 --> 00:01:30.580 rental housing fund called the American Home. We bought up foreclosed homes 18 00:01:30.580 --> 00:01:34.970 after the great recession. So from 2010 to 2015, we were buying up these homes, 19 00:01:34.980 --> 00:01:39.140 renovating them and then renting them. So we were a rental housing REIT or 20 00:01:39.140 --> 00:01:43.110 fund, and it was interesting. I went into that wanting to learn how to build 21 00:01:43.110 --> 00:01:46.500 a business. I came out of it very passionate about what rental housing is 22 00:01:46.500 --> 00:01:51.630 and means to our country and to the consumer. And most directly, I started 23 00:01:51.630 --> 00:01:57.040 observing the fact that renters as a customer, consumer one they pay the 24 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:01.320 majority of their expenses every single month to rent and to every time they 25 00:02:01.320 --> 00:02:06.390 have a financial hardship or challenge a ZA landlord myself, I didn't have 26 00:02:06.390 --> 00:02:10.139 data analytics or tools toe appropriately work with them or help 27 00:02:10.139 --> 00:02:14.500 them. And the reality is, you know, most renters want to pay the rent, and 28 00:02:14.500 --> 00:02:18.260 most landlords want to work with renters. And so I became interested in 29 00:02:18.260 --> 00:02:21.980 how you bridge that divide between these the renter and the landlord 30 00:02:21.980 --> 00:02:26.710 customers and then I spent so that companies called American Home and we 31 00:02:26.710 --> 00:02:31.180 sold to a public version of ourselves is that space was consolidating and one 32 00:02:31.180 --> 00:02:36.020 of our investors was a Fintech venture fund called Route 66 Ventures out of D. 33 00:02:36.020 --> 00:02:41.330 C on their an amazing team. And they offered me a chance to go learn the 34 00:02:41.330 --> 00:02:45.720 world of venture capital, which was very different than running a 35 00:02:45.730 --> 00:02:51.130 operationally intensive housing fund. And so it was just a unique moment, 36 00:02:51.130 --> 00:02:55.580 time opportunity that I decided to take, and it was great. I learned a lot about 37 00:02:55.590 --> 00:03:00.190 how the venture world works, what they're looking for in companies and in 38 00:03:00.190 --> 00:03:05.100 founders and same thing. I thought the world of Fintech was essentially 39 00:03:05.100 --> 00:03:08.620 different industry angle than the rental housing world that I wanted to 40 00:03:08.620 --> 00:03:12.620 explore. And then the two worlds just came crashing back together for May. So 41 00:03:12.630 --> 00:03:16.790 really, what I was seeing in the Fintech space was that there are a lot 42 00:03:16.790 --> 00:03:21.150 of trends, whether it's in Data analytics underwriting, risk management, 43 00:03:21.740 --> 00:03:26.640 credit access, insurance, access payments, access towards 44 00:03:26.650 --> 00:03:31.370 personalization of consumer experience. And so I started seeing a non 45 00:03:31.370 --> 00:03:35.680 opportunity that I became increasingly or more and more interested in bringing 46 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:38.730 into the rental landscape. Which is how do we think about personalizing the 47 00:03:38.730 --> 00:03:44.030 renters experience to improve how they access and pay and stay in rental 48 00:03:44.030 --> 00:03:49.320 housing. So I also during that time and very transparently with them, started 49 00:03:49.320 --> 00:03:53.230 getting the itch to go back to operating. I think I like the pain that 50 00:03:53.230 --> 00:03:58.960 it takes tow operate. And so they were really gracious. Have been There are 51 00:03:58.970 --> 00:04:03.090 lead investors in what till does and are super supportive. And they helped 52 00:04:03.090 --> 00:04:07.450 me think about what Till should be doing innovated and really incubated 53 00:04:07.450 --> 00:04:13.390 out of Route 66 into the world. So that brings me to Till wow. So So you saw 54 00:04:13.390 --> 00:04:20.200 problem. You had experience on the venture side understanding that 55 00:04:20.200 --> 00:04:26.310 component of sort the startup world and what the requirements are. And then you 56 00:04:26.310 --> 00:04:32.060 also saw this what I'll call consumerism opportunity, so to speak. 57 00:04:32.070 --> 00:04:37.360 When it comes to landlords and their tenants, just the lack of data, the 58 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:41.770 lack of flexibility, the lack of the ability to customize and personalize 59 00:04:41.770 --> 00:04:46.970 the experience. And you did a mash up of all those things. Yeah, it's 60 00:04:46.970 --> 00:04:50.890 exciting is that it's an industry that hasn't changed in a really long time, 61 00:04:50.900 --> 00:04:56.570 and it's a like ridiculously big industry. So there's $700 billion of 62 00:04:56.570 --> 00:05:00.200 rental payments that flow through the system every year. When you start 63 00:05:00.210 --> 00:05:03.930 actually digging into the pain points, it's kind of crazy How big the numbers 64 00:05:03.930 --> 00:05:09.270 are. Millions of families face eviction risk every year, paying, you know, 50 65 00:05:09.270 --> 00:05:14.000 plus billion dollars of delinquent rent. That's like a delinquency challenge you 66 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:18.760 look at like eviction outcomes for landlords and renters. And it's costing. 67 00:05:18.770 --> 00:05:22.360 It's bad. It's bad for both, Right? There's a societal costs for a renter, 68 00:05:22.370 --> 00:05:26.880 huge one, and it's really painful for them to get back on track and stabilize 69 00:05:26.880 --> 00:05:30.380 their personal life. It's also really bad for landlords like it costs the 70 00:05:30.380 --> 00:05:35.510 landlord, our landlord ecosystem probably 25 to $50 billion annually. So 71 00:05:35.510 --> 00:05:40.590 the numbers air just really big. And so I was really excited to step in and 72 00:05:40.590 --> 00:05:44.280 work with within this consumer problem statement because there's ah lot of 73 00:05:44.280 --> 00:05:47.850 really powerful implications for both renter and landlord. 74 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:54.800 So did that hypothesis found the business, or did you find that overtime? 75 00:05:54.810 --> 00:05:58.380 I'm curious if the product market fit was there from the beginning, or did 76 00:05:58.380 --> 00:06:03.520 you have to all WTO located. Both have been true. We've actually built to 77 00:06:03.520 --> 00:06:10.820 products in the market, and I think both the thesis has been there and 78 00:06:10.820 --> 00:06:15.260 constant from the beginning. Which is how do you better work with renters to 79 00:06:15.260 --> 00:06:19.580 improve how they and and this is like this is our mission statement. So, like 80 00:06:19.590 --> 00:06:23.050 our mission is to empower renters to thrive in their homes by radically 81 00:06:23.050 --> 00:06:27.890 transforming rent into a positive and personalized financial experience that 82 00:06:27.890 --> 00:06:31.670 has stayed true and that that works like that hasn't changed. And that 83 00:06:31.670 --> 00:06:35.610 works towards this, like end reality that we believe that through 84 00:06:35.610 --> 00:06:39.670 personalizing a renter's experience, you can actually improve a lot of their 85 00:06:39.670 --> 00:06:42.450 problem statements and a lot of the landlord's problem statements. But it 86 00:06:42.450 --> 00:06:46.810 doesn't mean like our build path has been a perfect constant. I don't think 87 00:06:46.810 --> 00:06:52.880 it ever can be. And so one thing we've done well is ah, lot of us on the team 88 00:06:52.880 --> 00:06:56.470 come from this space. So we have been our own customers. We have been the 89 00:06:56.470 --> 00:07:01.690 institutional property owners. Ah, lot of us have our own rental housing and 90 00:07:01.690 --> 00:07:05.720 work with our own renters. A lot of everyone's been a renter at till at 91 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:09.360 some point in their life. And so a lot of us come into the space with that 92 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:13.570 backgrounds. We, I think, have a unique understanding at it. We also spend a 93 00:07:13.570 --> 00:07:17.120 lot of time, and this kind of goes to the growth component of the 94 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:20.930 conversation. But like it's been a really, like deep amount of time, 95 00:07:20.930 --> 00:07:25.600 working with landlords as early partners in our product creation and 96 00:07:25.610 --> 00:07:29.130 making sure that they're highly involved, as we take an even early 97 00:07:29.130 --> 00:07:35.050 pilot out to market and and put it into market and to define what what job like 98 00:07:35.060 --> 00:07:38.860 is a landlord or rent or hiring us to do is we, as we take it into the world. 99 00:07:39.340 --> 00:07:42.870 And so we've taken two products in the market. We've taken a product called 100 00:07:42.870 --> 00:07:47.710 the Rent Alone, which helps a rent or pay rent when they're facing some form 101 00:07:47.710 --> 00:07:52.150 of like, episodic hardship. And then we've taken another product, flexible 102 00:07:52.150 --> 00:07:57.600 rent into market. That very simply breaks rent, which is the largest 103 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:00.950 expense usually do on the first of the month, and it breaks it into smaller 104 00:08:00.950 --> 00:08:06.030 payments that aligns with the renters cash flow, so it helps thio better 105 00:08:06.030 --> 00:08:10.690 proactively, budget and pay for rent, and it works with both on time renters 106 00:08:10.690 --> 00:08:14.870 and delinquent renters. But the payment schedules adapt differently, and so for 107 00:08:14.870 --> 00:08:18.830 a non time renter keeps rent budgeted and prioritized. But for a delinquent 108 00:08:18.830 --> 00:08:22.980 renter, it actually stabilizes their ability to pay and then starts baking 109 00:08:22.980 --> 00:08:26.640 into the schedule what we call move ahead mechanics or ways that the renter 110 00:08:26.640 --> 00:08:31.460 can actually move to become a consistent on time pair. And so, in 111 00:08:31.460 --> 00:08:35.760 both of those products coming to market, we have had thousands of learnings, 112 00:08:35.770 --> 00:08:39.980 right, as is the case and have you adapted product in the market. And some, 113 00:08:39.980 --> 00:08:44.820 like more material pivots and changes and some, you know, less material ones. 114 00:08:44.830 --> 00:08:49.100 And it sounds like in both cases the insight that you can provide the 115 00:08:49.110 --> 00:08:56.100 consistency of communication about the status of payments that's clarified for 116 00:08:56.100 --> 00:09:01.590 landlords so that you don't have that that friction or that back and forth 117 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:05.770 there's just there are now options that that Lebanon has other than prediction. 118 00:09:06.140 --> 00:09:10.320 Yeah, that's right. Yeah, So in today's process, if a renter is struggling to 119 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:14.120 pay, um, the first thing is that the landlord doesn't know that until it's 120 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:19.330 too late, like rent is late and then really, like the whole industry has 121 00:09:19.330 --> 00:09:24.020 operated for decades on, Well, there's two sticks that you used to get a 122 00:09:24.020 --> 00:09:28.110 renter to pay. You can hit them with a late feet, and late fees usually occur 123 00:09:28.110 --> 00:09:30.910 between the 3rd and 5th of the month. Kind depends on the state for 124 00:09:30.910 --> 00:09:35.260 jurisdiction and a late fees. It's actually very similar to what a payday 125 00:09:35.260 --> 00:09:42.690 loan is. It's a 50 toe, 250% a P R, which is kind of absurd, and it gives 126 00:09:42.690 --> 00:09:47.440 the renter two weeks to pay. And most renters that have a cash hardship don't 127 00:09:47.440 --> 00:09:50.180 actually earn enough money in that short period of time to solve the 128 00:09:50.180 --> 00:09:55.960 problem. Or it's always a result of I need to pay rent and I need thio kind 129 00:09:55.960 --> 00:10:01.110 of fill in the blank on something else, like fix my car or by my kids back to 130 00:10:01.110 --> 00:10:04.480 school clothes. There's something else pulling at that cash, and then the 131 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:07.620 other stick that landlords have is evictions, and so landlord can step in 132 00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:11.070 and say, Hey, like you still haven't paid, haven't paid your late fee like 133 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:14.510 we're gonna file on. Eviction doesn't mean the renters evicted. But it 134 00:10:14.510 --> 00:10:18.630 doesn't mean the renter has to pay the legal filing fees in most places for 135 00:10:18.630 --> 00:10:23.020 that eviction to be cleaned and then to stay in the home. So it adds another 2 136 00:10:23.020 --> 00:10:28.040 to $300 in 15 days. And so you take a cash challenge renter and I think, like 137 00:10:28.050 --> 00:10:31.700 one notion we're challenging and industry is that actually wait. Hold on. 138 00:10:31.710 --> 00:10:35.290 If we step in and work with our renter's at the beginning one, we can 139 00:10:35.300 --> 00:10:38.710 know more about them, toe work with them or productively, but to if we 140 00:10:38.710 --> 00:10:42.330 don't exacerbate their ability to pay with late fees and eviction filings and 141 00:10:42.330 --> 00:10:46.120 we actually work with them, one will improve their experience. It should 142 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:50.020 actually stay longer and renew more frequently because we improve their 143 00:10:50.020 --> 00:10:54.080 experience. But to we actually improve their ability to pay because that cash 144 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:59.640 goes towards paying rent, which is like the ultimate objective. So in such a 145 00:10:59.650 --> 00:11:04.680 timely products, given the environment that we're in now, I e. I don't know 146 00:11:04.680 --> 00:11:11.330 how you would consider co vid in a way, ah, blessing or the fact that your 147 00:11:11.330 --> 00:11:13.970 product might be a blessing as a result of what's been happening with Cove. It 148 00:11:14.540 --> 00:11:19.060 Yeah, it's it's interesting. So a lot of people bring Cove it up to us 149 00:11:19.070 --> 00:11:23.060 because I think it's it's naturally obvious. Like, Whoa, there's a tailwind 150 00:11:23.640 --> 00:11:27.670 because of Cove it for this. And I think a couple of things were true. So 151 00:11:27.680 --> 00:11:32.100 first, like the problem statement we've been working on this well before co vid. 152 00:11:32.110 --> 00:11:37.800 The problem statement existed, like critically so pre cove it, like 50 153 00:11:37.800 --> 00:11:42.310 billion of delinquent rent pre Cove it Right now there's like, I don't know, 154 00:11:42.310 --> 00:11:45.960 there's lots of different estimates 30 to 50 billion of delinquent or deferred 155 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:49.290 rent right now as a result of Covitz. So it definitely has exacerbated the 156 00:11:49.290 --> 00:11:54.260 problem, but it's even recognize like Post co vid. Whatever world exists in a 157 00:11:54.260 --> 00:11:57.820 few months. Hopefully it's still something that we need to be paying 158 00:11:57.820 --> 00:12:01.330 attention to, and Biden's administration is actually called it 159 00:12:01.330 --> 00:12:04.260 out, which is interesting. Like eviction reform will be part of their 160 00:12:04.260 --> 00:12:09.130 core housing agenda, and part of eviction reform is likely requiring, in 161 00:12:09.130 --> 00:12:14.700 many places pre eviction measures such as payment plants or payment structures 162 00:12:14.700 --> 00:12:19.320 that work with the renter. So, like in the housing world, everyone outside of 163 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:23.310 housing world is now paying attention to like the potential eviction crisis, 164 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:29.090 which is really like positive, I think, for the industry. But the reality is, I 165 00:12:29.090 --> 00:12:32.370 think, like the industry has recognized this problem statement well before co 166 00:12:32.370 --> 00:12:37.120 vid and it will exist well after co vid the other. Like as we think about our 167 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:40.880 business, I think two things were true. Well, two things definitely are true. 168 00:12:40.890 --> 00:12:45.120 There's definitely a tailwind behind flexible rent and better working within 169 00:12:45.130 --> 00:12:49.020 the renter community. Like one of the reasons why we work our landlord 170 00:12:49.020 --> 00:12:54.150 partners quote unquote hire us or deployed. The program is because we can, 171 00:12:54.150 --> 00:12:58.620 through tech and data, solve a really hard challenge in keeping rent 172 00:12:58.620 --> 00:13:03.610 prioritized and working with the renter. Some landlords definitely are more open 173 00:13:03.610 --> 00:13:07.200 to working with renters these days. The reality is it takes their site teams or 174 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:10.920 the property management teams an incredible amount of time. So they 175 00:13:10.920 --> 00:13:17.040 quote us like 123 hours per renter per week because they're having to do it 176 00:13:17.040 --> 00:13:21.410 manually. So piano landlord do some of this manually, they can start to. The 177 00:13:21.410 --> 00:13:25.140 reality is like there is no time, and the site teams now have to be focused 178 00:13:25.140 --> 00:13:29.720 on. How do you keep a community clean? Healthy? How do you make sure all the 179 00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:33.490 maintenance stuff is getting fixed as every renter sits in their home all day, 180 00:13:33.490 --> 00:13:38.080 every day rather than leaving site? And so we actually step in, and we saw the 181 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:42.410 huge, like operational logistics challenge for our property management 182 00:13:42.410 --> 00:13:46.010 partners and site team partners. So there is definitely a good tale in 183 00:13:46.010 --> 00:13:50.680 behind flexible rent. We've also found, like adoption has been amazing from the 184 00:13:50.680 --> 00:13:54.120 renter side. Our application rates in the communities we serve our like 185 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:58.310 through the roof. And so the other reality of Cove it is that the rent 186 00:13:58.310 --> 00:14:02.060 alone, our first product that went into market, we have pulled back on 187 00:14:02.060 --> 00:14:07.010 significantly. There's limitless demand from the landlord side, which can feel 188 00:14:07.010 --> 00:14:11.010 good, right? They want to get paid on time. The reality is with the credit 189 00:14:11.010 --> 00:14:16.620 models. There's two challenges. You can only approve so many renters, and so 190 00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:19.990 you actually create a bad renter experience and a bad landlord 191 00:14:19.990 --> 00:14:23.490 experience all at once. So when you goto landlord say, Hey, that's what our 192 00:14:23.490 --> 00:14:28.080 product, as they say, Oh, that's cool. You pay us on time like with using a 193 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:32.040 credit solution. The reality is because you're writing credit, you can only 194 00:14:32.040 --> 00:14:37.620 approve, like 1% of the renter base. And then the second, the second reality 195 00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:42.390 we've seen is for the unit Economic store. For the consumer, the rates 196 00:14:42.390 --> 00:14:47.100 actually have to be pretty hot. And so flexible Rent actually solves both of 197 00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:50.010 those problems. We thought the two products would work hand in hand, but 198 00:14:50.010 --> 00:14:54.630 it turns out that flexible rent can actually step in and approve. Like 90% 199 00:14:54.630 --> 00:14:59.280 of renters. All the renter needs is to have cash flow, no credit check, no 200 00:14:59.280 --> 00:15:03.740 other like approval requirements for them to join the program. And the 201 00:15:03.740 --> 00:15:09.480 landlord actually makes more money more frequently with flexible rent. Because 202 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:13.560 we're working with so many renters in a given portfolio and we're collecting 203 00:15:13.560 --> 00:15:18.710 rent in smaller chunks, the landlord other reason landlord hires us is 204 00:15:18.710 --> 00:15:21.630 because they're on time. Cash flow actually goes up pretty dramatically, 205 00:15:21.640 --> 00:15:25.490 so we get a whole bunch of delinquent renters to pay us part of the rent on 206 00:15:25.490 --> 00:15:29.320 time and the landlords on time. Cash flow is actually going up 5 to 10 207 00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:34.330 points percentage points, like in the first like month or two. So that's Ah, 208 00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:37.770 that's been a really great value proposition to recognize, and that's 209 00:15:37.770 --> 00:15:42.450 been something that's helped our partnership in sales process. So, uh, 210 00:15:42.460 --> 00:15:46.960 interesting product in an interesting market in a growth market, tell us a 211 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:51.970 little bit about the growth that you've experienced and the growth trajectory 212 00:15:51.970 --> 00:15:57.490 that you're on. Yeah, so we go to market through landlord partners or 213 00:15:57.500 --> 00:16:02.260 owners, operators and managers. And so we are a B two B two C distribution 214 00:16:02.260 --> 00:16:08.040 model. And so there we look at growth from two angles. We first need partners. 215 00:16:08.040 --> 00:16:12.410 We need to work with landlords. And so we primarily work with institutional 216 00:16:12.410 --> 00:16:17.230 owners and managers, meaning institutionalized processes and they 217 00:16:17.230 --> 00:16:21.190 owner manager, at least 500 units. Although most of our partners own 218 00:16:21.190 --> 00:16:27.250 manage between 1000 to 50,000 units, it's kind of like our core sweet spot. 219 00:16:27.640 --> 00:16:33.120 So we usually start with pilots, usually around 1000 unit pilot with our 220 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:37.780 partner, and then, after 2 to 3 months of the pilot, we look to expand from 221 00:16:37.780 --> 00:16:43.720 there, and so it's gone really well. We added 20,000 units that have access to 222 00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:49.440 the program in the first, like 45 months of the program being out in the 223 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:55.490 market, and we have since added about 25,000 units in the last 40 days for 45 224 00:16:55.490 --> 00:17:00.360 days, and the growth pipeline is just continuing to build from there. The 225 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:05.220 other, like really great stat around our partners, is that we've lagged into 226 00:17:05.220 --> 00:17:11.540 about 45,000 units with them. Today they control about 750,000 units. So 227 00:17:11.550 --> 00:17:15.440 toe us partnerships are not about just getting a landlord to try the program. 228 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:19.109 It's about giving them a really great experience and their site teams or 229 00:17:19.109 --> 00:17:24.250 their property management teams A really great experience. And then it 230 00:17:24.250 --> 00:17:28.540 comes down to serving the renter well. So we actually I talk about growth 231 00:17:28.540 --> 00:17:32.440 being first, we get landlords bought in and then site teams bought in. Then we 232 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:36.040 have a product marketing function that has another growth funnel that converts 233 00:17:36.050 --> 00:17:41.550 renters in their rental homes, apartments or homes specifically into 234 00:17:41.550 --> 00:17:46.040 the product. And that's been like so does that. I was just gonna ask if it 235 00:17:46.040 --> 00:17:50.170 sounds like there's sort of two separate and distinct demand generation 236 00:17:50.170 --> 00:17:54.560 channels, right. You have to go find the owners, the property owners and 237 00:17:54.560 --> 00:17:58.690 you've got to go market to them. And then once they say yes and you are 238 00:17:58.690 --> 00:18:03.720 successful with a pilot, then you have to turn on the demand. That engine for 239 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:09.060 the consumers, the actual renters. Yeah, that's right. So we have, ah, growth 240 00:18:09.070 --> 00:18:13.450 function. But until then, we have a product marketing function, both with 241 00:18:13.450 --> 00:18:18.680 two separate funnels. But the customer acquisition costs is even though it 242 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:22.410 sounds like there's two different functions needed in this B two b two c 243 00:18:22.410 --> 00:18:26.350 conversion reality is like the customer acquisition costs is extremely low, 244 00:18:26.360 --> 00:18:31.550 like we're not outgrowing budgets on Facebook or Google or others. What I'm 245 00:18:31.550 --> 00:18:36.560 finding leads and where do you find the initial owner leads? So Brady, who's 246 00:18:36.560 --> 00:18:39.860 our chief growth officer and a co founder, he leads our growth function. 247 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:45.250 We started just like hard knock life style. A bunch of us came from this 248 00:18:45.250 --> 00:18:49.140 industry, and we, even with like early product development, started calling on 249 00:18:49.140 --> 00:18:52.440 relationships and just asking them, like, what about this problem statement? 250 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:56.900 How could we work on this with you as the product came into view, like, What 251 00:18:56.900 --> 00:18:59.930 do you think about it? Would you be willing to partner at pilot? It give us 252 00:18:59.930 --> 00:19:05.970 feedback on it, and so that has just led to an organic funnel. And it's kind 253 00:19:05.970 --> 00:19:09.860 of been one like this. This industry has too long tails in it. There's the 254 00:19:09.870 --> 00:19:13.300 institutional long tail and the mom and pop or do it yourself landlord, long 255 00:19:13.300 --> 00:19:18.120 tail. And while we only focus on one today, it's just kind of endless. It's 256 00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:21.910 kind of amazing how many different players in the space and so through 257 00:19:21.910 --> 00:19:28.350 referrals and just very intentional, like diligence on the Internet. We've 258 00:19:28.350 --> 00:19:31.940 built a really big funnel of groups that we work with. And then now we've 259 00:19:31.940 --> 00:19:37.670 hired to other growth leads that both come from this B two B sales experience 260 00:19:37.670 --> 00:19:42.180 within prop text and the multi family industry. Because it is, it's really 261 00:19:42.180 --> 00:19:47.020 important to have the sales knowledge of how to operate a B two B sale to a 262 00:19:47.020 --> 00:19:51.290 landlord or property manager, and critical in that is understanding the 263 00:19:51.290 --> 00:19:55.900 lingo and the problem statements that are, and and the orig structures that 264 00:19:55.900 --> 00:19:59.570 we have to navigate because there's lots of different versions of it. 265 00:19:59.570 --> 00:20:03.740 There's owner owner operators, owners with third party managers, just third 266 00:20:03.740 --> 00:20:09.100 party managers and Mawr versions of those and so navigating all of those 267 00:20:09.100 --> 00:20:12.760 different types of partnership structures takes a pretty intimate 268 00:20:12.760 --> 00:20:16.690 understanding of what the industry is, who we need to be talking to, how we 269 00:20:16.690 --> 00:20:19.940 need to be partnering with them, how we need to be demonstrating value to them 270 00:20:19.950 --> 00:20:26.160 both in the initial like partnership process, but then also in the expansion 271 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:30.760 partnership process so similar in terms of sale process. But does that mean you 272 00:20:30.760 --> 00:20:35.170 have to customize the messaging and the approach you take for each of those 273 00:20:35.180 --> 00:20:40.900 distinct markets? Yeah, yeah. So Brady and our team have done an incredible 274 00:20:40.900 --> 00:20:46.610 job looking at who are all the different potential partners. And while 275 00:20:46.610 --> 00:20:49.480 all of their challenges, all of their challenges, actually boiled down to the 276 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:53.600 same exact problem statement. So we actually can start with the renter. And 277 00:20:53.610 --> 00:20:57.630 that's that's the persona we prioritize. Like if a renter succeeds, a site team 278 00:20:57.630 --> 00:21:01.840 succeeds. If the site team or property manager succeeds their owner or manager 279 00:21:01.840 --> 00:21:05.650 succeeds, and if they succeed, we succeed. So it actually all just starts 280 00:21:05.650 --> 00:21:09.530 with the renter. Like very simply, every persona we sell Thio or Partner 281 00:21:09.530 --> 00:21:13.650 with has the same problem statement. How do we get renters to pay rent more 282 00:21:13.650 --> 00:21:19.290 effectively. That's actually our core product, KP I. But from there, like yes, 283 00:21:19.300 --> 00:21:23.410 a different you know, third party manager persona is gonna have a 284 00:21:23.410 --> 00:21:28.110 different problem statement or need to solve for than an owner operator. And 285 00:21:28.110 --> 00:21:33.100 so our growth teams in a really good job mapping out like who might need us, 286 00:21:33.110 --> 00:21:37.960 what problems do they specifically face? And then how do we build a 287 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:42.340 communication process that helps them understand what we can do for them? And 288 00:21:42.340 --> 00:21:45.800 if there is a good fit, it will move forward. And so they've done a lot of, 289 00:21:45.810 --> 00:21:50.780 like user mapping, journey, mapping, sales, enablement collateral building. 290 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.610 That's actually like one of the key things they've done, I think really 291 00:21:54.610 --> 00:21:59.150 Wells they they've built up. The reality is in the speed of the sale, 292 00:21:59.150 --> 00:22:03.300 you can find a champion, but they have to communicate internally about what we 293 00:22:03.300 --> 00:22:08.160 dio. And so how do we empower them to be as productive as possible within 294 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:13.550 their or so you have to equip them toe productively communicate? That's great. 295 00:22:13.560 --> 00:22:17.620 So with with all of the changes that have occurred not only in the business 296 00:22:17.620 --> 00:22:22.830 since you've been growing, it But given the situation with with co vid has it 297 00:22:22.830 --> 00:22:27.800 changed the way you manage the team? The team obviously has grown. Have you 298 00:22:27.810 --> 00:22:32.400 changed the style or how you manage a remote team? I think your remote first. 299 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:35.250 Or maybe you have you always been remote first. Or maybe that's the first 300 00:22:35.250 --> 00:22:40.860 question. No, we So we're headquartered out of D. C. And the majority of our 301 00:22:40.860 --> 00:22:46.280 team is in D. C. We do have a customer success team out of Atlanta, and I 302 00:22:46.280 --> 00:22:50.940 think Cove it has changed a lot of people's preconceptions about business 303 00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:55.090 and start ups and what is required. We've made the decision during Cove it 304 00:22:55.090 --> 00:23:00.910 to become a remote first company. We will. As vaccines are available, we 305 00:23:00.910 --> 00:23:05.280 will become like we will meet in person 1 to 2 times a month. But the focus 306 00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:09.500 will be on relationship building and creative work, things that are better 307 00:23:09.510 --> 00:23:14.350 like done in person. I think we've also realized like you could be hyper 308 00:23:14.350 --> 00:23:18.650 productive in a remote first environment. People can live where they 309 00:23:18.650 --> 00:23:23.370 want to live, like live the lifestyle they wanna live outside of work, live 310 00:23:23.370 --> 00:23:27.330 in areas that are much more affordable, like D. C. Is pretty bad. It's not as 311 00:23:27.330 --> 00:23:33.270 bad as like San Francisco or or other areas of the country. So you asked 312 00:23:33.270 --> 00:23:36.270 about how we've changed, how we've operated. I think becoming a remote 313 00:23:36.270 --> 00:23:41.980 first company is one. I think we put increasing emphasis and focus on 314 00:23:41.990 --> 00:23:45.790 asynchronous communication and written communication. Actually think like we 315 00:23:45.790 --> 00:23:50.740 write and use notion. It's kind of like our own internal wiki, and it it's 316 00:23:50.740 --> 00:23:54.950 improved our, I think, our decision making and speed. We've also been like 317 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:59.540 I've been hammering a project management process that's similar 318 00:23:59.540 --> 00:24:04.050 across the entire org's. So we use a sauna. As many most groups dio. 319 00:24:04.060 --> 00:24:09.200 Everyone runs in a prioritized kon bon, and every week we're looking at, like 320 00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:13.150 what's in motion now and what is coming next? And do we all kind of agree on 321 00:24:13.150 --> 00:24:17.840 what's next to that? Like people don't need to check in. It's like, Yeah, once, 322 00:24:17.840 --> 00:24:22.290 once you knock something off, just like start ripping on the next thing, Um, 323 00:24:22.300 --> 00:24:26.960 it's allowed people to start moving really quickly, like I think our team 324 00:24:26.970 --> 00:24:31.790 is moving faster now than it ever has been. Part of that is not just due to 325 00:24:31.790 --> 00:24:36.030 like these tools. Part of it's just like the team forming together and we 326 00:24:36.030 --> 00:24:40.470 have part of going remote first is we've hired six people during co vid. 327 00:24:41.040 --> 00:24:45.660 We have five people on the team that I've never personally met, and, uh, but 328 00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:53.480 we've been able to hire them out of Denver, Utah, Kansas, Pittsburgh in one 329 00:24:53.480 --> 00:25:01.750 in D. C. And so it's opened up our like talent. Framework National. I think 330 00:25:01.750 --> 00:25:06.680 that kind of like democratized access to talent across the country is that 331 00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:10.640 there's gonna be a long standing impact of that broadly and the like. The tech 332 00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:15.050 start up in business ecosystem. I think you're right there on. I think that's 333 00:25:15.050 --> 00:25:18.370 great that you've taken advantage of this situation. And I think a lot of 334 00:25:18.370 --> 00:25:22.500 the statement you made around optimizing work remote, I think is so 335 00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:26.620 true. There's just it's so much more efficient and when you can or when 336 00:25:26.620 --> 00:25:30.240 you're able to meet toe, do the creative stuff that's necessary, I will 337 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:35.420 say one thing like, Yeah, one thing that kind of sucks is if work feels 338 00:25:35.420 --> 00:25:41.690 mawr transactional relation all, I think like you can fire from like a 339 00:25:41.690 --> 00:25:45.950 zoom to another, zoom to another zoom to another zoom and be pretty 340 00:25:45.950 --> 00:25:50.950 productive signs you like, prep for them all in advance. But you miss, like 341 00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:55.580 just having coffee with people and seeing people always and chatting with 342 00:25:55.580 --> 00:26:00.260 them and what I really misses. I missed like people on different teams that 343 00:26:00.260 --> 00:26:04.750 till seeing each other in engaging like I talked to pretty much everyone but 344 00:26:04.750 --> 00:26:09.620 like is one of our engineers talking to one of our customer service reps as, uh, 345 00:26:09.630 --> 00:26:14.310 probably not. And so that's what I think the in person time is needed for, 346 00:26:14.310 --> 00:26:18.360 like relation all development. And fortunately, I think that that's that's 347 00:26:18.360 --> 00:26:22.820 not just unique to you. I think that's across the board, so I don't think that 348 00:26:22.820 --> 00:26:27.190 that's anything to worry about. I think that takes care of itself in time, 349 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:31.660 fingers crossed, right, so I've got a couple other questions for you. So 350 00:26:31.670 --> 00:26:35.940 what's one thing that you would recommend to other founders that they 351 00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:42.770 either start to do or stop doing? Given your experience, one thing I'm I'm 352 00:26:42.770 --> 00:26:47.640 personally working through. I wish I had done a better job of earlier. We've 353 00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:53.960 done a pretty good job of is having a structured hiring framework in place. 354 00:26:54.840 --> 00:26:58.870 It would be one. I think we've had a structured process, but that is 355 00:26:58.870 --> 00:27:03.770 different than a structured framework for evaluation. Yeah, for evaluation. 356 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:10.850 And we've had, like, we're probably 80% effective in hiring and people, culture 357 00:27:10.850 --> 00:27:14.520 and talent culture. And what I've realized is it's not just about the 358 00:27:14.520 --> 00:27:18.450 framework on finding the right person and bringing them in, but it's the 359 00:27:18.450 --> 00:27:24.200 exact same framework for on boarding, like quick cultural alignment, which is 360 00:27:24.200 --> 00:27:28.100 pretty key in a remote centric environment. But also it's actually 361 00:27:28.100 --> 00:27:32.010 this, then the same exact framework for personal development within, like 362 00:27:32.020 --> 00:27:36.080 ongoing personal development. And so every person should be improving. The 363 00:27:36.080 --> 00:27:39.740 hard thing about these places and environments is that everything 364 00:27:39.740 --> 00:27:44.260 progresses like every month, every quarter. And if people aren't keeping 365 00:27:44.260 --> 00:27:49.430 up at their own individual pace like they can fall behind or, like, get 366 00:27:49.430 --> 00:27:54.450 pissed in place, and so that that would be one and then the second thing, which 367 00:27:54.450 --> 00:27:58.900 I've just noticed. So I was thinking about this Second thing I've noticed is 368 00:27:58.910 --> 00:28:03.190 we actually shifted our leadership meeting from Monday mornings to Friday 369 00:28:03.190 --> 00:28:09.570 mornings, and they are like much, much better meetings, and I think like 370 00:28:09.580 --> 00:28:14.660 everyone steps into the well. I think everyone steps in the week Mondays cold 371 00:28:14.670 --> 00:28:20.920 like they're trying to boot themselves up, have coffee, get into context like 372 00:28:20.930 --> 00:28:24.960 some people do a good job on Sundays prepping. But it kind of depends on 373 00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:30.350 everyone's like weekend family time. Family is life. And so, by shifting it 374 00:28:30.350 --> 00:28:34.310 to Friday, you actually start the next week fully in context because you just 375 00:28:34.310 --> 00:28:39.010 had the meeting on Friday and people are firing by Friday like people have 376 00:28:39.010 --> 00:28:44.090 context opinions. So I don't know that was just something that we accidentally 377 00:28:44.090 --> 00:28:47.790 did. And I was like, Whoa, wait, This meeting this week was way better than 378 00:28:47.790 --> 00:28:54.070 last like that. I really like that. So So that's a really cool idea. What's 379 00:28:54.070 --> 00:28:59.760 something that's surprising about your product, how it's being used or 380 00:28:59.770 --> 00:29:06.200 something surprising about your customers, Anything come to mind? I 381 00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:11.410 don't know if surprising, but I think just like it's been a good motivator 382 00:29:11.410 --> 00:29:16.640 behind our team recently, like we're having a pretty profound impact on a 383 00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:20.380 lot of renter consumers. They're pretty challenging point and we've helped a 384 00:29:20.380 --> 00:29:24.200 lot of people stay in their home as a result, and that's been just like, 385 00:29:24.210 --> 00:29:30.180 really cool I'd say like from a stats perspective, like the application and 386 00:29:30.180 --> 00:29:35.980 adoption rates have been really surprising when I bring those upto VCs 387 00:29:35.980 --> 00:29:40.780 or other people in this kind of prop tech market the that B two b two C that 388 00:29:40.780 --> 00:29:44.890 having the two distribution channels, I think there's like a certain app and 389 00:29:44.890 --> 00:29:49.750 adoption rate that people expect, and right now we're still learning into it. 390 00:29:49.750 --> 00:29:54.650 But like it is, far far exceeded our expectations. I mean, we're in 391 00:29:54.660 --> 00:29:59.700 communities were approaching 50% application rates. These are like multi 392 00:29:59.700 --> 00:30:04.140 100 units communities, so that's that's been surprising. But on a personal 393 00:30:04.140 --> 00:30:09.500 level, which there's a strong mission drive behind a lot of our our entire 394 00:30:09.500 --> 00:30:14.480 team and company culture, like you have a renter on the phone with their CS 395 00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:18.100 team crying and thanking them for keeping them in their family and their 396 00:30:18.110 --> 00:30:23.300 their community. And that's just like that's the ultimate motivation that 397 00:30:23.310 --> 00:30:27.290 that we need to keep going. So that's that's been like, really cool. There's 398 00:30:27.290 --> 00:30:30.610 like a lot of hard things about this, and not everything goes perfectly in 399 00:30:30.610 --> 00:30:34.210 any of these scenarios, and so you can look at, like, moments like that. It's 400 00:30:34.210 --> 00:30:41.420 like it is worth the brain damage. We're all going todo uh, it's so nice 401 00:30:41.420 --> 00:30:47.030 to get those kinds of messages directly from consumers. They're utilizing your 402 00:30:47.030 --> 00:30:50.140 product. That's got to be better gratifying and satisfying to the 403 00:30:50.150 --> 00:30:56.220 developers and to the customer success folks. And you guys have founders, 404 00:30:56.220 --> 00:31:00.220 right? Yeah, We had a renter say, like, This is the best thing that's happened 405 00:31:00.220 --> 00:31:07.410 to me since Cove It It's like, Whoa, yeah, that's, Ah, it's great that you 406 00:31:07.410 --> 00:31:12.070 guys are providing this kind of impact. And it's just wonderful to see that 407 00:31:12.080 --> 00:31:17.680 that you've found number one a really interesting and engaging product at the 408 00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:26.280 right time, And investors have voted with their checkbooks behind you, and 409 00:31:26.740 --> 00:31:32.250 landlords and tenants are signing up, and it sounds like that growth is 410 00:31:32.250 --> 00:31:36.660 happening organically. So things air pumping on all cylinders for you guys. 411 00:31:37.040 --> 00:31:42.040 Yeah, thank you. It's good right now, not not without all of the like build 412 00:31:42.040 --> 00:31:46.170 challenges that always exists in these environments. But we have really good 413 00:31:46.170 --> 00:31:51.110 product market fit. The core theme behind it, like this personalization 414 00:31:51.110 --> 00:31:55.070 opportunity in this landscape, is absolutely enormous, and there's a lot 415 00:31:55.070 --> 00:31:59.160 of demand interest sitting behind it from both landlords, renters and 416 00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:04.800 capital. Well, it's exciting space that you're in. And it's really great to 417 00:32:04.800 --> 00:32:09.540 hear more about the details about how you got to where you're at and just 418 00:32:09.550 --> 00:32:13.030 It's a great combination of your background and the idea that you have. 419 00:32:13.040 --> 00:32:18.410 Um it's been great to learn about your organization about till and wish you 420 00:32:18.410 --> 00:32:21.960 guys continued success on a going forward basis. Thank you, John. Thanks 421 00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:26.220 for having me on super happy that you could join us. What is the best way if 422 00:32:26.230 --> 00:32:29.360 folks want to reach out To which best way to reach out to you? Yeah, you can 423 00:32:29.360 --> 00:32:34.760 just email me. I'm at David at hello till dot com me and find me on Twitter 424 00:32:34.760 --> 00:32:38.830 on that homes and homies and those were the two best channels. Shoot me a note. 425 00:32:38.830 --> 00:32:42.680 I'm happy to schedule time and talk about till on the rental housing market. 426 00:32:43.140 --> 00:32:47.450 Fantastic. Well, thanks again. And thank you everyone for listening to 427 00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:52.670 this episode of the revenue Siris on the B two b show. I'm your host 428 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:57.160 Congressman, founder in sales coach at earlier revenue. And until next time 429 00:32:57.540 --> 00:32:57.960 I'm out. 430 00:33:01.040 --> 00:33:04.870 Are you an early stage tech founder? That's frustrated by limited sales. Do 431 00:33:04.870 --> 00:33:08.090 you lack the time to dedicate to a traditional sales training program? 432 00:33:08.100 --> 00:33:11.870 John Crispin's early revenue sales program helps early stage founders 433 00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:15.670 accelerate sales. In large accounts, he's built a playbook that transfers 434 00:33:15.670 --> 00:33:19.080 what he's learned as a founder and sales later into a condensed, easy to 435 00:33:19.080 --> 00:33:22.860 implement program. If you're ready to increase your startup sales capacity, 436 00:33:22.840 --> 00:33:26.260 visit early revenue dot com to get started today.
