The Downfall of Marketers' Obsession with New

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.960 Today on B two B growth, we are sharing a featured conversation from our 2 00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:08.880 archive. With over two thousand episodes released. We want to resurface episodes worth 3 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:12.599 another listen. Before we jump in, just want to say I would love 4 00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:15.720 to connect and hear from you on Linkedin. You can search Benji walk over 5 00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:18.839 there and that's a great place to also interact with sweet fish and B two 6 00:00:18.839 --> 00:00:32.880 B growth. All right, let's jump into today's featured conversation, conversations from 7 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:41.320 the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth. Welcome everybody 8 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:44.159 back to another episode of B Two B growth. I'm one of the hosts 9 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:48.200 here, Timmy Bauer. I'm the content strategist, and today I'm talking with 10 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:52.759 Adam woolley. He's the senior director of life cycle and marketing operations at House 11 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:57.560 called pro before that he worked at Preisy, and we were just talking about 12 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.119 this thing. So he's saying what he's seen mold couple times and in multiple 13 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:06.719 places is the brand team, product marketing, everyone is getting involved to craft 14 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:11.000 the perfect value prop that's gonna get plastered all over the homepage and the campaign 15 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:14.719 that's going to go with it. And Adam, let me let you take 16 00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:17.840 it from there. What was the point that you were saying? Yeah, 17 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:22.040 what I was getting at is you sort of will have this huge cross functional 18 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:26.719 effort to put hours, days, weeks into crafting the perfect kind of top 19 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:32.400 level value prop message to put in front of all of your marketing. That 20 00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:36.200 trickles down into the sales scripts, the sales enablement materials, sort of all 21 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:42.599 over the place, and then what I've seen multiple places is the next quarter 22 00:01:42.120 --> 00:01:46.920 or six months later, there will be well, we need to have a 23 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:51.000 new campaign and we're gonna wipe everything clean and come up with a brand new 24 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:55.000 idea. And it starts all the way back at Ground Zero with brainstorming and 25 00:01:55.079 --> 00:02:00.640 feedback from the customer teams and sort of everybody wants a voice and you kind 26 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:04.760 of just push all the old stuff that you spent weeks and weeks building to 27 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:08.560 the side and start fresh. And that will happen over and over again, 28 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:14.520 as frequent as quarterly. In Our last conversation you said that you think there 29 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:20.759 is this borderline psychotic obsession with newness and freshness. What what do you mean 30 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:28.840 by that? I think that's probably driven just by how consumers consume media. 31 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:32.960 So like everything is new and fresh continuously. Netflix is releasing a movie a 32 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:38.360 week or whatever this year. There is so much content everywhere you can't possibly 33 00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:43.520 consume it all, and I think from a content marketing perspective and certainly from 34 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:46.719 an entertainment perspective, that makes a lot of sense. But when you're talking 35 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:52.159 about the branding of Your Business and sort of the key messages that are informing 36 00:02:52.280 --> 00:02:58.800 all of your other marketing and sales communication decisions, I think it doesn't translate 37 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:04.080 as well, because what you end up doing is, rather than sort of 38 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:07.479 looking at the data and analyzing what's working and what's not and just sort of 39 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:14.120 iterating on different variations of the core message, you kind of throw all that 40 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:17.719 out and start from scratch and put a huge amount of effort into totally new 41 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:22.319 messaging because you think it's got to be fresh and different and you're kind of 42 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:25.560 reinventing the wheel over and over again. How often does this happen? How 43 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:31.800 many times has this happened in your career? I would say at multiple companies. 44 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:38.960 It would happen at a minimum every six months and sometimes every quarter. 45 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:43.199 Can you give me some specific examples, or as specifically as you can get? 46 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:47.520 Sure? So when I when I was at Preisi relatively early on, 47 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:52.599 and part of this was because PRESSI talks to a ton of different audiences, 48 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:59.960 but we cycled through a different key message multiple times. PREISI started an education 49 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.840 and then the initial message was all about sharing ideas more effectively because that's what 50 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:10.400 the education vertical wanted. Start started when? What year? Mid To early 51 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:14.360 two thousand's? Yeah, and it started. It started in Hungary, was 52 00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:18.680 huge in education when international, and then moved into kind of the business space, 53 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:23.720 which is where its bread and butter is now. But so initially it 54 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:27.480 was all about students and teachers sharing ideas, kind of what you saw in 55 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:30.079 college. And then as we moved into into the business space, there was 56 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:34.279 kind of a more global be a better be a great presenter, be a 57 00:04:34.279 --> 00:04:39.160 better presenter, and it was all about the tool would empower you to be 58 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:44.839 a more effective presenter. And then people wanted to change that. We needed 59 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:47.800 something more businesses. So after we'd pushed out all to be a great presenter 60 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:55.160 messaging, then it became well effectively share complex ideas and it was hard of 61 00:04:55.199 --> 00:05:00.879 all about helping business people share complex and boring ideas and and then that kind 62 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:05.120 of got thrown out and it was all about being more engaging and getting your 63 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:10.560 audience to engage with your content. And this certainly isn't unique to present at 64 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:13.720 all, but all of it was sort of driven by that. Well, 65 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:16.199 it's been three months and we're going to launch a big integrated campaign. We 66 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:21.160 need a totally new set of language and sort of key messaging angles. And 67 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:25.639 how big of a project is it to overhaul that? I mean, if 68 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:29.560 you're really doing it top to bottom, it's a pretty big project because all 69 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.839 of a sudden kind of all of the executives are involved because they all feel 70 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:38.959 strongly about how the brands being communicated. All of your brand marketers, PR 71 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:44.000 the copyrighting teams involved, the sales team and sales enablement people, if you 72 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:46.040 have them, are all involved because you want to update the sales scripts to 73 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:50.279 match what you're saying in all of the marketing, the life cycle marketing and 74 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:54.680 the demand Gen team are then need to update all the ad copy. The 75 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:58.920 graphic design teams working around the clock to support that. So it's just sort 76 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:03.199 of a huge, sort of multi team cross functional effort kind of spanning tons 77 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:08.480 of assets and at the end you get to show all these awesome new assets, 78 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.879 but you also spent weeks and weeks and weeks doing this and then only 79 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:15.879 after you launch it maybe you get to see whether it had the effect, 80 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:20.160 the desired effect. Did it actually performed better than the old messaging? Maybe, 81 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:25.279 maybe not. What do you think should be done instead, like what 82 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:30.360 should be the practice instead? I think it's important to do that kind to 83 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:33.199 go through that kind of effort in that motion, particularly driven by things like 84 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:38.000 product marketing, and sort of nail your messaging. I think when you want 85 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:42.720 to overhaul it all or change it, there are much faster ways to sort 86 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:46.800 of smoke test it, kind of more like a product team would, where 87 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:49.800 don't build an entirely new product to see if you have product market fit. 88 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:56.680 Like what's the minimum viable way that you can quickly test something on the marketing 89 00:06:56.720 --> 00:07:01.519 side, like you can throw up fifty different versions of a digital SCM AD 90 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:05.040 and see which one is performed the best really quickly, just to test like 91 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:11.480 does this language work better than that language? And even with sales, if 92 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:15.279 you have a couple of really talented SDRs or account executives, you can pluck 93 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:19.360 a couple of them and give them four different variations of a script to try 94 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:24.680 out and get qualitative feedback from the sales reps what seems to be resonating best 95 00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:28.240 on the phone. same thing with email, like it's another tool where, 96 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:31.279 if you have a sizeable email database, you can kind of very quickly, 97 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:36.639 with minimal effort, test multiple versions of the copy in an email or subject 98 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:41.879 linds and see what's resonating best with your audience before you go through the effort 99 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:47.360 of completely overhauling the key messaging source of truth and trickling it down to the 100 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:51.240 entire rest of the company. That seems to just make a lot of sense. 101 00:07:51.399 --> 00:07:56.680 Why do you think most companies don't think this way? I think most 102 00:07:56.680 --> 00:08:01.439 companies do think this way and it's just sort of they get a little bit 103 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:07.519 blind because there's also a lot of pressure on marketing teams to like make a 104 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:11.399 big splash and have something big and shiny that they can show off, whether 105 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:18.240 it's at board meetings or executive team meetings or on podcast interviews or with in 106 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:22.720 customer marketing. So I think there's a lot of pressure on a marketing team 107 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:26.319 to be like, okay, well, here's what you did last quarter. 108 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:30.279 How much? How much does that kind of stuff tend to matter, because 109 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:33.639 I know I never get excited by that kind of stuff. When I see 110 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:37.559 a company overhaul their key messaging, I think it doesn't matter anywhere near as 111 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:41.600 much as people think that. Those like it's almost like they're just making a 112 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:46.200 big to do about nothing. Yeah, not nothing, because like changing your 113 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:48.840 message. I'm not trying to say that changing your messaging is not important. 114 00:08:48.919 --> 00:08:54.559 I believe that wholeheartedly. But, for example, I don't invite people on 115 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.080 this podcast to talk about their companies messaging. Nobody cares about that. You're 116 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:01.679 not on this podcast to talk about your company's messaging. You're on this podcast 117 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:07.480 because, as a marketer, you've got expertise to share. Totally exactly, 118 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:11.080 and I'm not sure who who is super interested. I mean again, I 119 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:16.279 think a lot of it comes down to pressure to feel like you have something 120 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:22.279 to show and sort of did a big, big department wide cross functional effort. 121 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.519 I think certainly anytime there's new leadership, there's pressure to come in and 122 00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:33.279 like show the impact you're having quickly. I think it's also, to be 123 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:37.559 honest, for a lot of marketers it's fun right, like if you're going 124 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:41.000 to reinvent the messaging from the top to the bottom and involve everybody. The 125 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:46.159 brainstorming is fun. The coming up with all of the different design box is 126 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:50.600 fun. Sort of design concepts like. It's kind of a fun project to 127 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:54.600 work on. It's just if you're doing it all the time, it's probably 128 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:58.840 not going to return to R O I that you're hoping for, but they 129 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:05.879 I have a big fun projects. As a marketer, you're probably brainstorming outside 130 00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:09.639 the box ideas to engage your prospects and customers working remotely, and you've probably 131 00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:13.639 thought about sending them direct mail to break through the zoom fatigue. But how 132 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:18.240 do you ship personalized gifts to remote decision makers when you have no idea where 133 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.039 they're sitting? At B two, B growth, we use the craft and 134 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:26.159 platform to send hyper personalized gifts to anyone working from anywhere. Craft Um makes 135 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:31.120 it easy for your prospects and customers to pick and personalize their own gift in 136 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:35.759 real time and offers highly secure data capture so decision makers feel comfortable submitting their 137 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:41.080 home addresses for shipping purposes. To get your own personalized craft and gift, 138 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:45.759 go to craft UM DOT IO. Slash growth to schedule a demo and receive 139 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:48.879 a complimentary, personalized gift from Craft Um. To claim your personalized gift, 140 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:56.559 go to craft UM DOT IO. Slash growth. I want to understand why 141 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:00.519 it's not just a bunch of EGO stroking. What are the benefit it's doing 142 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:03.240 it? I know that you have to change your messaging to fit whatever it 143 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:09.759 is you're now focusing on. Yeah, I think certainly you need to find 144 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:16.440 messaging that resonates with your audience most effectively, and I think that's the part 145 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:22.519 that and that's what I think, that's what's driving these efforts. But just 146 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:28.200 the the execution kind of gets moneyed because it seems like, well, if 147 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:31.320 we're going to change our messaging, it should be we got to change it 148 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:35.200 across the board. Otherwise we have inconsistent messaging and inconsistencies. How do you 149 00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:39.799 convince your leaders? Let's say I'm in that place right where it's like, 150 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:43.000 all right, we're gonna change our messaging, and now I'm trying to say 151 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:46.799 like hey, instead of us just making a big splash and doing a absolute 152 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:52.799 total overhaul about this new messaging, let's instead test this out and iteratively work 153 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:58.960 towards whatever the true best messaging is. It seems like I'm not going to 154 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:01.600 be in a great position in that conversation like that seems like it would be. 155 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:05.360 You tell me. How does somebody have that conversation? Yeah, I 156 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:09.279 mean I think the way, the way that I've had that conversation previously and 157 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:13.039 what seems to be the most effective, is sort of coming with one, 158 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:16.759 coming with data, which is almost cliche in our industry at this point, 159 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.759 but also coming with proposed solutions. So rather than saying I don't think we 160 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:28.240 should do a major effort, you can say, well, let's test it 161 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:31.759 lightweight, with minimal effort first, and then what are some of your favorite 162 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:37.919 go two ways of testing this, I mean I think the easiest are digital 163 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:41.519 advertising and email, and they're certainly dependent on if you're going to test it 164 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:45.759 with digital advertising, you need to have an ad budget, but if you 165 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:48.919 have a relatively sizeable ad budget and that's a channel that works for you, 166 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:54.879 it's really really low effort to test different messaging, even different visual concepts, 167 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:58.840 very quickly in ads before you change anything else. And then the same thing 168 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:03.039 with email. If you have a sizeable email list, it's really easy to 169 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.279 mock up four different versions of email and sort of on one of them change 170 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:11.639 the copy, on the other one changed the look and feel and just see 171 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:16.080 which of those is producing better results. You certainly have to be a little 172 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.759 bit careful with what metrics you're looking at. So if you're only changing the 173 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:24.600 email and not the pages that get clicked through too, and saying with ads, 174 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.600 if you're only changing the display ads or the scm copy, you need 175 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:31.360 to make sure you're not going to measure something all the way down at the 176 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:35.320 bottom of the funnel. You're kind of measuring the top of funnel differences, 177 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:39.879 sort of the lead indicators, because that's what you're really impacting. Well, 178 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:43.840 this is good at them. So just piggybacking off of what you're saying, 179 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.799 my question is, how does somebody do what you're suggesting? Like, how 180 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:52.399 does somebody WHO's legitimately trying to do what you're suggesting screw it up? I 181 00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:58.240 think taking too long. Like all of it's around speed to execute for that 182 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:03.240 kind of test. If you if you're trying to make the argument to your 183 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:07.600 CEO or your CMO that you should test out this new messaging quickly, they're 184 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:11.480 gonna say yes because you're offering to do it quickly and get them a result 185 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:16.200 which can inform then the large project they want to they want to kick off. 186 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:22.799 If you then spend three weeks iterating on copy and and designs before launching 187 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:26.000 anything, all of a sudden they might as well have kicked off their major 188 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:31.120 project and they're not. They're not gonna Trust you the next time that you're 189 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:33.919 kind of like, Oh, just let me test it first. I think 190 00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.159 the other piece is if you want to use data as your argument, you 191 00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:43.840 legitimately need to make sure that you can come up with a sample size and 192 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:50.360 KPI that will actually give you a statistically significant result. So I can't say, 193 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:54.159 well, let me test the new value props in digital advertising, but 194 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:58.840 then go out and spend a couple hundred dollars and have thirty clicks on my 195 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:01.559 ads. I won't have any thing to show for it. Yeah, what 196 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:05.039 do you think you need? At least it depends a lot on kind of 197 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.360 the size of the effect, but you'd you'd want to be looking at kind 198 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:11.919 of the size of your list and the size of your audience. If you're 199 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:16.480 testing something an email and your engagement rates are relatively low, you're probably you 200 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:20.759 need tens of thousands of recipients, that kind of thing. Certainly on advertising 201 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.720 you can sort of just spent until you get the result that you get, 202 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:28.919 get some kind of result in either direction. Yeah, this is going to 203 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:33.519 really reveal my ignorance here, but every time I've seen messaging, like big 204 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:37.600 sweeping messaging, changing, it always seems to be a top down thing, 205 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:41.240 not a bottom up thing, where what you're proposing feels a little more bottom 206 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:46.279 up. It feels more like, Hey, let's try this out on these 207 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:52.600 channels and see if it's better and then will apply it, like you're sort 208 00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:56.159 of on the ground doing work to discover what the best messaging is so that 209 00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:02.200 it can change everything, whereas every time I've seen messaging changing, it's like 210 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:06.840 person at the top has a new vision and it's like, okay, we're 211 00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:11.559 changing everything. Yeah, I mean I think I think you're right. I 212 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:15.879 think often, probably more often than not, when it's a top to bottom 213 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:19.240 change in the brand look and all of a sudden the logo looks different, 214 00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:22.759 sort of everything changed, I think more often than not it is a top 215 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.799 down thing. I think at the in the trenches, kind of front line 216 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:33.120 level, there's way more of that quick iteration happening and it's much more difficult 217 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:37.000 to push it up because everybody sort of sees it as just performance metrics not 218 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:41.720 as brand changes. Is there a solution to that or is that just that's 219 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:45.200 just the way it is? I mean, I think that kind of falls 220 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:49.679 on management and leadership. Like the solution there is for management and leadership to 221 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:56.080 sort of be relentlessly interested in, yeah, what is driving improved performance? 222 00:16:56.080 --> 00:17:00.399 So rather than just talking to the digital marketers and being like, Oh, 223 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:04.279 it's great, this creative set is doing better than the old creative set, 224 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:10.119 keep up the good work, recognizing that something's going on there and digging into 225 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:14.960 it and then figuring out, okay, is this just a tiny change that 226 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:17.839 we don't really need to do anything with, or is there something more here 227 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:21.640 that's more actionable? And I think the same on certainly on the sales side. 228 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:29.000 I think that marketing management and leadership should be continuously interested in what is 229 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:33.200 happening on sales phone calls, and that's historically not something that marketing is deep 230 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:38.480 in. After maybe onboarding, is spending a lot of time kind of listening 231 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:42.720 in on sales calls and talking to frontline sales reps and sort of hearing what 232 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:47.799 is happening with those conversations. Yeah, Adam, this has been a super 233 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:51.279 interesting conversation. I really appreciate you doing this with me. Where can listeners 234 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:53.960 go to connect with you more? They can find me on Linkedin. That's 235 00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:56.799 probably the best, the best spot. That's where I spend most of my 236 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.000 time. I'm on twitter, but I'm not doing much on there. So 237 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:03.880 let's say track me down on Linkedin. Are you posting a lot on Linkedin? 238 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:07.160 Not a lot, but a little bit, because this is where my 239 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.440 head's at now. Sorry, just me a little aside as content strategist. 240 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:12.480 I don't know if this needs to get cut out of the episode, but 241 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:15.079 we always end every episode the same way. We say, you know, 242 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.960 how can listeners connect with you more? And the answer is always the same 243 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:22.319 answer. It's linked in. I'm starting to think, like hey, listeners 244 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:26.359 of a podcast know that where you go to connect next is linked in. 245 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:30.160 So I've been thinking, like should I end the episode instead with like Hey, 246 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:33.599 this has been a great conversation. How can listeners get more of this 247 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:37.319 conversation from you? And then, I don't know if that's like, Adam, 248 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:41.680 you need to get posting or if you're on other podcasts or what I 249 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:45.119 do think that's a better way to end the podcast. I'm not on other 250 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:49.720 podcasts, but then in that case you gotta post some content on Linkedin. 251 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:52.559 I gotta post some content. I mean. The other thing is you can 252 00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:56.799 ask the question and I'll just say well, get to me to have me 253 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:02.400 back on and conversation. That's what or listens to do. Excellent, excellent. 254 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:03.279 All Right, thanks for being on the PODCAST, Adam. It's been 255 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:07.119 an awesome conversation. All Right, thanks, man, glad to be here. 256 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:15.000 One of the things we've learned about podcast audience growth is that word of 257 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:18.440 mouth works, works really, really well actually. So if you love this 258 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.880 show, it would be awesome if you texted a friend to tell them about 259 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:26.119 it, and if you send me a text with a screenshot of the text 260 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:29.680 you sent to your friend, Meta I know I'll send you a copy of 261 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:33.559 my book content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone. You want 262 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:36.880 to know my cell phone numbers. Four oh seven, four, nine, 263 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:40.319 oh three, three to eight. Happy texting.