Transcript
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Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B Growth Welcoming
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Friends. Today is our third episode
and UH series that we've been doing around
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original research from last year. So
we sat down with a hundred marketing leaders.
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We asked fifteen original research questions to
just get a sense of where B
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two B marketing teams are at.
And today what we want to do is
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we want to tackle the findings from
this question what is your most successful marketing
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channel? If you're interested in what
we found that was most marketing team's biggest
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struggle or the metric that your CEO
checks most often, you can actually find
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those previous episodes right here in our
B two B Growth podcast feed and tell
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you man worth checking out some great
conversations, great remedies for some of these
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things. And UH excited for this
third installment today. And I do want
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to give a shout out to the
hundred marketing leaders and just say thank you
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for sitting down with us, for
giving us your time and your insights,
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and glad to jump into this now. When I think of this question,
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when I think of what's our most
successful marketing channel, I think our marketing
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team here as far as time here
at sweet Fish, we spend a lot
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of time on organic social efforts.
It's on things like B two B growth
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like this podcast. However, I
would not say that that is our most
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successful channel. And uh, I
looked through our findings and actually what I
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think is I tend to agree with
the majority on this one. But logan,
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I'll ask you first, what do
you see as our most successful marketing
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channel, and then what leads you
to the conclusion that you have. Yeah,
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I would say LinkedIn is definitely up
there for us. You know,
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Emily Brady on our team has done
a fantastic job overseeing multiple iterations of our
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evangelist program. So often people are
aware of sweet Fish for a long time
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through LinkedIn before they engage with us. It's interesting sometimes, you know,
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we'll see someone new come into our
pipeline. I'm like, oh, I
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recognize them because they've commented on on
posts and I've connected with them and I've
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seen them, you know, engage
with one of Dan's posts or one of
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the Emily's posts or something like that. So LinkedIn has been consistently a channel
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organic LinkedIn that is that has driven
a lot of results for us as a
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team. M. James, What
are your thoughts here? So as we
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we implemented self reported attribution probably about
four or five months ago, and it's
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been really interesting for me to see
because I would have said something very similar
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to what Logan just said. I
would have thought that LinkedIn drives the bulk
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of our of our inbound but after
implementing self reported attribution, we got it
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tied into Slack. So every time
we get an inbound lead, it shows
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up in our wins channel on our
company Slack, and over and over and
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over and over again. It seems
like seven out of ten inbound requests that
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we get are coming from somebody saying
some version of Google online search. I
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mean, people are finding us on
Google. And so it feels weird to
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say that this seems a little bit
like a contrarian take because Chris Walker has
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really been pounding home this point that
people don't search, people don't use Google
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the way that all these brands think
they use Google. And and I think,
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just based on my own experience and
in owning a business that's seeing we're
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doing all this stuff Chris is saying
to do, We're we've gotta Obviously,
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we're very passionate about podcasting and doing
organic LinkedIn, but overwhelmingly the opportunities were
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getting coming to us are coming from
Google. I think the work that Dan
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from our team did about a year
and a half ago really catapulted us from
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a search perspective, and I'm super
grateful for that. Yeah, we're gonna
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talk more about this a little bit
later, but overwhelmingly in our in our
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self reported attribution, people are finding
us on Google. Yeah, it's interesting.
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I saw a post from Mashanella earlier
today and it's like old media versus
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new media in marketing today and I'm
like, yes, yes, yes,
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And he had se O under their
as old media and I was like,
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well, you know, if you
can do it right, and if you
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can do it where you move the
lever enough, We're all about everything he
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categorized as new media, organic social, you know, taking advantage of new
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channels. We tried Clubhouse before it
flamed out. Really for for B two
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B we've got people active on TikTok. Obviously we're big on podcasting. And
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I'm like, yes, everything about
new media, but wait, there are
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some things in the unquote old media
that can still be big levers. If
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you do them the right way,
and I think that's something we're gonna touch
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on here. So it has been
really enlightening for me as well. As
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James described our journey in looking at
our self reported attribution and kind of looking
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at it through that lens of old
media versus new media. Wish I would
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agree with matt On for the most
part and what he posted this morning on
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LinkedIn you The question isn't what is
the most successful marketing channel? It's what
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is your most successful marketing channel?
And I think that is important to think
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about because you could double down on
just about any channel, get really smart
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about how you do it, and
you could start to see success there.
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But when we ask, the majority
said organic search. So I'm looking at
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the numbers, and again granted there's
been some time since this was done,
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but organic social was like five point
six percent of our results compared to on
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organic search, and so that social
is awesome, it's wonderful. But when
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you're thinking about your streng rategy and
what you want to double down on,
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I still think there's a lot to
be said about organic search. I would
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say the key results from our findings, organic search was overwhelmingly more popular than
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any other answer, and several of
our respondents actually did list multiple channels because
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they're not just focusing on organic search
like Logan, I'm glad you said that
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because you can see results in multiple
places and it's not like old verse new.
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Don't pick anything in the old category
only goes a new Like if you're
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seeing success somewhere, you should continue
that while also venturing into those newer things,
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which we are are totally doing and
we're we're evangelizing that right. Yeah,
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and it's also true which maths comment
back to my comment was, yeah,
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but most teams have to pick a
few otherwise they're not gonna be able
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to do multiple channels well if they
have this mixture of old media and new
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media, which goes back to the
previous episode we did in this series on
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focus being the biggest struggle for most
marketing teams. Again, like you just
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said there, Benji, was one
of the things we talked about in that
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episode is you've got to prioritize what's
working and then stack those and then decide
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where you draw the line. Right, there are some new media things we're
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not going to get to. There
are some things old media that are still
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driving results and maybe s e O
and organic search is still above the line.
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Okay, we're gonna do that,
and we're also going to have a
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phenomenal podcasting strategy at the same time. Yeah, when you bucket our strategy,
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I think you would go like where
we are still prioritizing search organic search.
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We definitely prioritize organic social, and
I would I would put podcasting in
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on that one. And then when
I'm looking at the rest and going,
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we're testing paid search or paid like
LinkedIn ads, so it's still paid social,
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I guess, but those would be
like the three Is there anything I'm
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missing their James, anything you would
add. Yeah, we also tested paid
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search, so we started running Google
ads recently to really not great results.
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We're gonna turn down that spend and
turn up our spend on paid social,
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specifically paid LinkedIn, because we we
are starting to see some some early indicators
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that we're having some success with paid
social, but paid search for whatever reason,
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has not moved the needle for us. I think We've been running it
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for about three or four months,
and so I think with a lot of
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people running to search when the stuff
that's happening in the recession started happening.
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Chris Walker was saying this, I
mean, he was like, everybody is
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going to go into captured demand channels, and and search is obviously a captured
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demand channel. Where you should be
investing is creating that demand, and so
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that we're we're trying to create that
demand with our paid social strategy on LinkedIn
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as well as our organic social strategy. It's interesting because I'm just reading through
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all the numbers here, so I'll
just list it all off one more time.
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Organic search, paid search was thirteen, virtual events and webinars, direct
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email was nine percent, paid social
five six, organic social five point six.
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And it jumped out at me being
in this you know, B two
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B growth podcast space, how many
of the things on this list could be
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driven If driven by the fact that
you have a podcast, you could create
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virtual events because you have community there. Yeah, you classified podcasting as organic
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social, but I think podcasting is
really more about your content strategy overall.
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It's how you create the content that
actually fuels all of the distribution, and
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so you could think about it in
a lot of different ways. I actually
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heard an episode this morning on Christopher
Lockhead's podcast, Lockhead of Marketing, and
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he was talking about this idea of
content free marketing. And I was actually
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telling Emily on our team about this
this morning on our one oh one,
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But he said, so many,
so many brands. It's over a billion
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dollar industry, the content marketing industry. Um, I want to say he
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said something like seventy one billion.
It was like an insane number. I
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could be off on that, so
don't quote me. But they talked about
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how big the industry is and how
much of the industry are these tools that
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help you with distribution of content.
But the problem is that these brands are
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putting out what he calls this content
free marketing. What they're saying lacks substance.
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They're just they're dribbling on, cobbling
together what everybody else is saying,
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and trying to make it sound like
it's their own thought and it's and it's
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this unique take. And the reality
is it's like they're just using buzzwords and
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jargon and and dribbling on nothing that's
actually going to transform the way someone thinks
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it's it's definitely not going to give
somebody an unfair advantage in the work that
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they do. And so I think
the way you look at whether it's podcast
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or or YouTube or whatever content that
you're creating that you're saying, this is
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gonna be our pillar content. You've
you've got to put an enormous amount of
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thought into what what goes like,
what's the hook, what's the angle?
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What are you trying to say because
the distribution of that doesn't really matter if
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if there's no substance. And what
you're saying, So I love that is
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flockhead is so like minded in the
way we think about that as well.
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Yeah, that's a good distinction that
you made there too, because it really
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isn't like podcasting isn't really organic social. It's about strategy of how like they
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could fit into so many of these
Let's go to some key findings that we're
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drawing from these results, and I'll
go first here. But I think the
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main one and this is like the
no brainer that will kick us off with.
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But if you're a B two B
marketing leader and you want to know
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what channel your peers and your competitors
are focused on, it is still organic
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search, Like there are definitely a
plenty of players there, and I we
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thought it was interesting because when we
asked another question on this survey, we
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had asked if you could ask one
question to a hundred of your peers and
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B two B marketing leadership, one
question, what would you ask them?
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And the most popular answer was around
organic search strategy. So people are still
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actively thinking on this and going,
Okay, what's the best way to do
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this? And uh that to me
when you think old way, new way,
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logan to just keep using that language. It's like you can call it
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old way, but clearly there's people
thinking and dreaming up new ways to do
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it. I think Benji to one
thing that I've I've heard, Oh bed
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On, I've not blanket on his
last name right now, but he works
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at a marketing agency called client Boost, and he does all kinds of creative
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content on LinkedIn. And one of
his points of view is that content marketing
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does not equal blogging, like content
marketing is so much more than just writing
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blog posts. But even I've I've
seen some of the Folks and Animals,
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which are like one of the most
incredible like blog writing agencies in the world.
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They position themselves as a content marketing
agency, but really what they're really
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good at is writing blog posts.
So when you see folks from the Animals
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team talking about content marketing, what
they're really talking about is organic search.
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They're talking about writing blog posts that
end up ranking for these keywords. So
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it's so much in our in our
language as marketers, because HubSpot did such
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a brilliant job of building the inbound
the category of inbound marketing, we just
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we talk about it like they are
one thing. We talk about content marketing
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and blogging as if they are the
same thing. The reality is there that
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they're not. And I think you're
seeing more modern marketers step into the game,
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like Chris Walker, like like Dave
Gearhardt. You're seeing folks like Emily
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Brady on our team really start to
stretch the boundaries of what modern content marketing
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looks, like Todd Klauss Refined Labs. You're seeing a lot more creativity and
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the content that's being created, and
that's really exciting. But it also makes
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sense to me why so many of
the marketers we talked to are curious about
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organic search, because I think it
gets conflated with content marketing in general.
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There is that correlation to a similar
one I I saw recently was I was
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like, Hey, everybody's talking about
building a media company and not a marketing
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team. What you need is former
journalists or at least people with journalistic skills.
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And a lot of people pushed back
and they're like, oh, it's
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not just about writing. I was
like, I didn't just say writing journalism.
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There's interviewing, their storytelling. There's
research their story finding, right,
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maybe a cooler way to say research. And those are all the skills that
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make up, you know, the
things that I was exposed to in in
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journalism school. But so often people
think, oh, journalism, that means
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copyrighting, that means like a reporter, right, And some people are like,
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oh, no, we don't need
CNN and Fox News. Hankerson B
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two B marketing. I'm like,
that's not what I'm talking about. It
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was just interesting that that tying those
two together when yes, they were talking
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about elements of journalism, but that
wasn't the whole thing. Same thing with
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organic search not being the whole thing
of content marketing. It is a it
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is a part of it. It's
kind of like going back to asking people,
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are content marketing and inbound marketing synonymous
or is one subset of the other.
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You get all sorts of different answers
on that too. I would agree.
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We do not need Fox and CNN
coming into B two B marketing.
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I'm cool with that, but that's
not even what we're talking about. So
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just grasp that. I think there's
such a need for like innovation in how
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we think. And because social was
growing at the same time that blogging was
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growing, people thought about them like, oh, we have our content people
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over here in blog world, and
we have people that are exploring Facebook and
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Instagram. But they were so young
and they were babies that people didn't think
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about that as content. And now
we're in the merger where it's like,
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well TikTok is where how people are
searching, and it's like all this endless
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thinking and I'm grateful for all those
the people that have put thought behind it,
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seeing the merging happening and doing shows
like this where we're talking about it
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because there's categories that are being redefined
and thought of, and like in real
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time, we're making those pivots happen. So it makes sense how we were
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separate and now we're coming together.
Yeah, and one of those things that
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evolved, and I think this was
a point in Matt's post I mentioned earlier,
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or maybe it was somewhere else.
But as the rise of blogging and
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the rise of social happened, it
was like, oh, well, social
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is your tool to drive people to
your blog because your blog is where they
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convert. No, that is now
no longer working right for a number of
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reasons user behavior. People don't want
to be on a platform and be driven
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over here because they have other posts
that they can consume that are entertaining them
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or educating them without having to follow
the link to go to your blog or
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sign up for your webinar or attend
your virtual event. And so that evolution,
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I think is really important. We
used to see social as a way
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to promote people back to your blog
to actually consume the content, because that
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was the way the original inbound funnel
worked. No longer, you have to
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optimize for delivering content on each channel. It doesn't mean that it can't work
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with your blog strategy. We have
some massive blog posts that perform really well
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on organic search. We can break
those up in a hundred different ways.
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Emily can do a funny TikTok video
breaking down how not to do podcast intros
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on this one blog post where we
breakdown doing podcast intros well that performs really
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well on our gimmicks search but the
purpose of that video isn't to drive people
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to that blog, right, but
they are working together but in a different
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way than they did before. It's
a great renegotiation in our minds because even
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allowing yourself to take a blog post
repurpose it over on LinkedIn, not even
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linked to the blog post, but
just have written content or create a video
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off of that. Like, we're
ten steps ahead right now and what we're
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saying compared to where most B two
B companies are are at. I literally
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was talking to waltz Are, one
of our producers here at sweet Fish this
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morning on Mike Club, about this
very thing logan that you're hitting on.
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It's just we have to realize it's
not just about like redistributing content or saying
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the same thing over and over again. It's like this thing also in forms
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this thing that we're doing. We
can talk about it again over here,
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we can try it in a different
format, and like the more creative you
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get there around some key core messages
than you're informing your ideal clients in a
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number of ways. I love that
we pulled out a few more key findings
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Logan, what was what was something
that stood out to you from this research.
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I thought it was interesting that the
prioritization on organic search. I think
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one of the things behind that is
that it can be a short term investment
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that has compounding ur o I.
So that sounds very jargony and buzzworthy,
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but like to break that down into
an actual application. James mentioned that earlier,
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about a year year and a half
ago, we identified some keywords we
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wanted to rank four. We used
methodology called Google Alphabet soup, where we
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actually try to write better than what
is currently on page one, not looking
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necessarily at all the tactical elements that
most people prioritize in their SEO and organic
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search strategies, but looking at how
do we write something that is better for
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a human that would click on this, What would make them click on this?
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Did they not provide enough examples?
Did they not expand enough? Was
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there something that's outdated that we can
update right? And I don't know how
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many, but it was. It
was a handful of keywords that we targeted.
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We spent some time writing those blog
posts. Eventually they ranked after a
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few weeks, a few months,
and they're still driving organic search in the
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way that people are finding us today, and I would say that even though,
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as James said earlier, organic searches
driving a lot of inbound there's not
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a lot that we're doing day to
day right now to maintain and grow that
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organic search. Now, will those
of those blog posts that are ranking stay
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there forever? No, we know
that, but it can be kind of
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this, all right, let's put
some effort here for a quarter and then
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we'll reap the rewards for a while
while we prioritize some other things, some
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of those new media things that were
doing podcasting and TikTok and and other things.
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So that that's something that I think
other marketing teams are seeing and why
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probably organic search is still in the
mix because you can have this all right,
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let's put some time here and then
we'll see some long tail kind of
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slow burn results over time. Yeah, that's that's a big one. I
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like that, Logan and James,
any thoughts. There are other key findings
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that stick out to you? Yeah. The thing that stick out to me,
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I mean it just just how much
these marketers are investing in organic search.
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There is several respondents in this research
that we did that said that they
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devoted over half of their resources to
organic search, which is really really interesting.
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I think it doubles down on what
Logan was saying that it's an evergreen
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channel you can write. You know, we focused a lot of effort for
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about six months to a year on
ranking for some very specific keywords related to
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be to be podcasting, and here
we are, you know, several months
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a year plus later on some of
these articles. They're still driving highly qualified
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traffic to our site to find us. And so I think when you look
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at organic traffic, not just from
a I think a lot of people crap
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on it because, oh, it's
transactional. People are only using Google to
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find these transactional things. But you
can. People are using Google to find
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transactional answers to questions that they have. But you can, and we're gonna
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touch on a little bit this of
this later in the episode, but you
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can use that transactional need that someone
has whenever they go to Google searching for
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something, and if you can deliver
a page to them that answers that transactional
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question but also treats them like a
human and inject your brand, your voice
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into that search result, it's gonna
be a lot stickier we're gonna get into
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some I think some more specific things
that you can do to humanize these articles
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that you're writing specifically to rank on
search. But yeah, that was that
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was my key finding is is just
marketers are spending a lot of money and
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a lot of resources in this strategy, and they wouldn't be doing that if
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it weren't working. I don't think, Man, it's interesting. I want
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to get to two remedies in a
second, but I want to have a
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quick discussion before we just jump into
Okay, what do we do as a
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results of this, and just we
can split ball some ideas. But when
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you think of organic search, James, informing the content that you create,
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what are some of the first things
that come to mind? Like, oh,
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this is because we were talking about
podcasting earlier. We'll probably talk about
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that and in the remedy section as
well, But like, there's a million
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different ways people can think of organic
search informing content. What are the ways
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that that immediately jump out to that
you see as as interesting right now?
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Yeah, So, I mean Logan
mentioned Google off for that super earlier.
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Essentially, what that is is you
go to Google and you use Google Auto
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suggest to tell you what people are
actually searching for. So if we were
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to put in, you know,
B two B podcasting and then we you
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know, hit the space bar and
then hit the letter A, it would
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be like B two B podcasting agencies, B two B podcasting assessment, B
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two B podcasting analytics. And so
that's telling us. Google is literally telling
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us what people are searching for.
And there's this big movement right now,
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at least on LinkedIn of people you
know, talking about talk to your customers.
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Talk to your customers, talk to
your customers. It's one of those
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things that we we as marketers,
we know we should be doing that,
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but for whatever reason, we don't
want to. It's hard, like it's
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not necessarily something that comes naturally to
a lot of people. But this strategy
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of using Google alphabet soup, using
Google's auto suggest you're effectively doing that.
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Google is telling you what your prospective
customers are searching for, what questions do
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they want you to answer? And
from a content marketing perspective, if your
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goal is not to be the most
helpful resource on the Internet for solving the
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problems that your customers are trying to
solve, as it relates to what you
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do then something about your kind of
marketing strategy is probably broken. And so
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I think leveraging Google auto suggests specifically
to tell you what pains are people feeling
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and are they trying to solve with
a transactional Google Search result that I think
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has a massive impact in informing the
content that you that you actually create.
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It might start with a blog post, but you can create a wide variety
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of of new media based on the
fact that you have this insight now that
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hey, there's a lot of people
searching for you know this this particular thing.
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Logan any thoughts on things you want
to see people try, Like does
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your curiosity get peaked at all when
you go all right, like, what
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would be the kind of content we
could create to help our organic search?
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What type of content we could create? I mean, it's been interesting the
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types of things that you see come
up in those Google auto suggests. And
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I've seen people say like, oh, that doesn't seem all that scientific.
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I use this tool on that tool, and like why wouldn't you go straight
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to the source? Right, Like
Google's job, their entire mission is to
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make the Internet more searchable. They
want to connect be like that's how they
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make their money, right, it
it's on advertising, but the way they
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deliver on that is getting people from
what they want to something that answers the
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question right. And so to me
it's been interesting. I think there's an
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opportunity for a lot of teams to
use that Google alphabet suit methodology to make
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their their organic search drive better content
because it's not Hey, this report of
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of these keywords that some tool has
spent out and says right, because I've
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seen that. Who was I think
it was rand Fishkin a spark Toro was
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saying, like, uh, these
numbers from Google Analytics, I'm not real
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sure these you know, numbers about
what traffic is coming here. I take
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those with a grain of salt and
right. And he's saying, takes something
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from Google with a grain assault,
And I'm saying, take this from Google,
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not with as big a grain assault. So maybe there's a problem with
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that, But I'm not saying from
their from their data set. I'm saying,
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just go there as a user right
where they're trying to off for things
359
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up based on what other people are
searching. And so to me, I
360
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think there's an opportunity for people to
create more of the right content for their
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audience using this methodology with Google alphabet
soup and looking at Google Auto suggest and
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you know, we're not crazy.
I've seen other marketers I really respect,
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like Gitano dinnerdy uh say. You
know, scroll to the bottom and look
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at the section on Google that says
people also searched for right and create content
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around those suggested additional questions. Because
Google is doing that for a reason,
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because there's volume there with the rise
of short form video to I know,
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Google is getting on board with like
putting some videos at the top of your
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search and like so you could see
also how people have created content in different
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mediums around these topics, which I
think is super helpful. Yeah, I'm
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glad you said that, because that's
probably a better answer to your first question
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of what new types of content could
people create. YouTube is pushing shorts right
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now because they are trying to keep
up with with TikTok and Instagram reels,
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and you know, there may be
arguably a little bit late to that short
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form video game. But if you're
going to search and Google wants to give
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you stuff on their platform with YouTube
shorts, then maybe you should think about
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some of those questions that you've been
answering in your blog posts that are aimed
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at organic search. Create short form
videos, put those on your YouTube channel,
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and see if those drive some As
Google starts to put the YouTube shorts
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higher up in search trick on the
first page of the search results, it
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might be a conversation for a different
day. But you've got to think about
381
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the fact that YouTube is owned by
Google and they are easily the biggest competitor
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to TikTok at this point, and
they're figuring out ways to pull shorts out
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00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:51.039
a long form video that are already
on their platform, so they are by
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far the biggest competitor to TikTok,
Like forget about Instagram. YouTube shorts is
385
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:02.279
has so much potential because of how
much video YouTube already has. And if
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00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:04.880
YouTube as a platform figures out how
to repurpose it and then make it searchable
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on Google. I mean, that's
a that's a completely different shift and in
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mindset that we should be thinking about. As I know people listening are going
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we gotta make video content. We're
thinking about podcasting, We're thinking about all
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these new things, these creative things. That's a really one that I would
391
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:23.920
advocate for it to be thinking on
all right, let's go to two remedies
392
00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:29.119
here, recommendations based on the results
we've seen here talking about organic search,
393
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:32.359
and James all throw it over to
you first. What's what's a remedy?
394
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:36.039
What's a recommendation based on the results. Yeah, So, seeing these results
395
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:38.240
and seeing how many marketers are investing
in organic search, it just makes me
396
00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:44.440
think that you should be using the
traffic that is coming to your site for
397
00:28:44.519 --> 00:28:49.359
these pages that you've written content to
rank for specific keywords on and obviously deliver
398
00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:55.440
what they deliver, that answer,
deliver what it is that the searcher is
399
00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:00.640
is looking for. But I also
think you should be thinking creatively about how
400
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:06.839
instead of just capitalizing that attention in
that one moment, be thinking about how
401
00:29:06.960 --> 00:29:11.799
you can drive that that user,
that searcher to other channels where you're creating
402
00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:17.359
maybe longer form content, you're creating
video content, Maybe you're really push You
403
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:22.480
know, your your CEO puts out
really incredible content on LinkedIn, you might
404
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:26.279
be doing some stuff on TikTok.
Think about how you can drive people to
405
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:32.599
other channels where they can subscribe,
follow what you're doing that isn't reliant on
406
00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:37.000
them needing to find you from a
search result. So if you're you know,
407
00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:40.319
you've got your list of keywords,
be thinking about, like how can
408
00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:44.400
I get somebody to subscribe to our
YouTube channel on this post and figure out
409
00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:48.519
how to integrate that. The blog
post itself doesn't need to be about a
410
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:52.559
specific you know, video that you
put on YouTube or a specific episode that
411
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.359
you published for your podcast, but
you can, I think, in an
412
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:00.799
organic way, reference these other media
channels that you're building. And if folks
413
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:06.039
get value from the content that you've
created on that blog post, they are
414
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:10.279
likely gonna want to consume your content
on other channels. And so I think
415
00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:15.359
that's a smart way to leverage the
attention that you can get through organic search
416
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:19.319
and disseminate that attention, get that
attention onto other platforms where you're also investing
417
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:25.240
resources to create content, and it
took to help you build community across multiple
418
00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:29.880
channels. Yeah, there's so much
there. I wonder like how you would
419
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.039
want to set that up, Like
James, in a perfect world, Let's
420
00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:37.000
say someone clicks on one of our
what we've been using blog posts as are
421
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:40.480
example, Right, we did the
alphabet soup, we created this blog,
422
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:44.880
it hits home, it gives some
answers to the searcher. You're let's say
423
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:48.400
you're the searcher James, and you're
going down and you're looking at this blog.
424
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:51.839
What what would you think you could
put in there? It's just like
425
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:55.079
subscribe to our YouTube channels are a
unique way you would do it. Like
426
00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:59.480
what what would you advocate for?
Yeah, there's if there's a specific thing
427
00:30:59.559 --> 00:31:02.960
that I talked about and one of
the points that was related to a particular
428
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:07.119
episode on the show or a video
that we did for YouTube, that's obviously
429
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:10.720
like a natural way to to connect
to it. But then I also think
430
00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:14.799
you could just like, like I've
seen some really well designed almost like banner
431
00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:18.160
ads. I know people are are
desensitized to that a little bit. But
432
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:22.839
because you're not selling a product,
you're selling like you're selling content. I
433
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.400
mean, you're you're trying to get
awareness to other content assets. I think
434
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:32.359
you could you could do some inlaid
banner ads within or a banner ad singular.
435
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:34.359
You probably don't want to put too
many in there that would point people
436
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:40.519
to another resource, So I think
something visually that pops and that stands out
437
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:45.359
could be really effective there as well
as uh, natural kind of links throughout
438
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:48.759
the content. You've got to be
aware though that people when they're reading your
439
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:52.039
that blog post, especially if they
came there because they're trying to fulfill a
440
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:56.799
transactional need that they have their skimming
and so you've got to be really thoughtful
441
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:01.400
about That's why I say something visual
that pops out and that really stands out,
442
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:06.559
because if someone's just scrolling, they're
they're probably scrolling through a lot of
443
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:10.279
your back links to other things.
Also like embedding YouTube video I mean that's
444
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:15.319
nothing nothing new. Like obviously embedding
YouTube videos into your blog posts when they're
445
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:21.160
relevant and helpful, are going to
help. But maybe visually calling something out
446
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:25.079
either above a bellow the video to
get people to subscribe to your YouTube channel
447
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:29.640
as opposed to just embedding the videos. So those are a couple of ideas
448
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:36.599
there, Loogan, what would you
say around remedies recommendations based on these findings,
449
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:38.960
Yeah, I would say, you
know, if you are going to
450
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:45.559
try and see results with organic search, you cannot optimize for the algorithm over
451
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:51.400
being human and trying to create content
that resonates. You know, as I
452
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:55.720
mentioned previously with our blonging strategy,
when we think about how are we going
453
00:32:55.799 --> 00:33:00.119
to create something that outranks what's currently
on the first page Google for the keywords
454
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:06.839
that we're targeting. We are looking
at how well does the do the results
455
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:12.079
that are currently on the first page
of Google answer the question and provide value
456
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:15.880
to the human who typed in that
keyword. And if that is driving your
457
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:20.519
strategy with organic search, you're going
to see better results. Obviously, there
458
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:22.799
are SEO best practices, and there
are things that you need to to keep
459
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:28.240
in mind and super technical stuff like
page load speed and those sorts of things.
460
00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:30.599
And I'm not saying throw that all
out, but if if that's all
461
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:36.720
your team or your SEO agency is
thinking about, and then you read it
462
00:33:36.759 --> 00:33:38.759
and you're like, well, I
would not want to read this, then
463
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:45.119
in my opinion, there's a huge
miss there, because if you think about
464
00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:51.000
reverse engineering, how can I answer
this question better while covering the basis of
465
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:54.480
technically what you need to do to
have that piece of content rank in search,
466
00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:58.319
that is a much better way to
approach it. And so you've got
467
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:06.160
to prioritize being human and the content
resonating and answering the question possibly entertaining.
468
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:08.760
However, you know, you think
about that for your niche and then the
469
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:15.280
technical aspects of of s c O. I think that structure of priorities is
470
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:19.639
going to lead to much greater results, much better content, and much greater
471
00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:23.239
results and your organic search efforts.
Yeah, I think on that one,
472
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:30.920
like the prioritization of content that resonates, it just has to be infused back
473
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:32.840
in in some way, like,
yes, you're still looking to rank,
474
00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:37.440
Yes you want to be high in
search. But we use the example on
475
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:40.039
a episode. I can't even tell
you how long ago it was, but
476
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:45.280
I ran a marathon in December,
and we talked about how, like if
477
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:49.639
I search for tips for running a
marathon, the entire first page of Google
478
00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:54.079
Organic search is the exact same blog
article on ten different websites. Now,
479
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:58.119
their goal might be slightly different because
they probably have ads that they're running,
480
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:00.639
and so it kind of was like
a win for them just to be on
481
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:04.079
the first page whatever. But like, if you think about how much commodity
482
00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:08.280
content is in that page, it's
it's literally it's the same same bullet points,
483
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:15.360
so same ten steps, drink water, stretch right exactly, yes,
484
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:17.760
and it's all white noise. I
couldn't tell you any of those brands,
485
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:22.639
and then there's probably gonna be a
company that's great at marketing, like a
486
00:35:22.760 --> 00:35:24.920
Nike, who could say almost the
same thing, but give you an entertainer
487
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:29.360
doing it, put it in video
form, and it looks like they could
488
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:32.360
do it right and they could add
just enough of their point of view to
489
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:37.559
where it it wins. And I
remember their brand because they actually figured out
490
00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:43.440
a way to resonate and they figured
out a way to be slightly different while
491
00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:46.639
giving the answer that people want and
the answer that people need. So that's
492
00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:49.760
a that's a big one, James, anything you want to throw in on
493
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.719
this point, because I feel like
this is is one we definitely harp on
494
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:57.239
a lot because it's it's necessary to
Yeah, it's in the other parts of
495
00:35:57.239 --> 00:36:00.519
the research that we did we actually
found I think it was the question that
496
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:06.320
we we asked around, like what's
an underrated B two B marketing tactic?
497
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:09.880
And something that people said pretty overwhelming. I don't know if it was the
498
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:14.000
number one answer for this, but
it was alarming to see how many people
499
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:17.760
said it. They said, it's
underrated to be more human and so you
500
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:24.079
know, it's things like writing like
you talk and not taking yourself too,
501
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:28.880
seriously, not feeling like you've got
to be buttoned up informal in the way
502
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:32.320
that you communicate externally. And so
I think that matters here. I mean
503
00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:37.039
it with with organic search, Um, you have this massive opportunity if you
504
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:42.840
can rank for a particular keyword to
get ongoing traffic coming to your site.
505
00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:45.679
But if they're coming to your site
and there's nothing memorable there, even if
506
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:50.199
it did answer the question, I
think Google's obviously gotten pretty good about you
507
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:52.119
know, They're not gonna let you
get to page one if you're not if
508
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:55.320
you're not delivering the goods right like, if you're not actually answering the question,
509
00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:58.880
Google is not gonna put you there. So you've gotta be doing something
510
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:01.360
right to get there. But I
think can we take it to the next
511
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:05.920
level creatively and go, Okay,
once we have this attention on our site,
512
00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:08.440
what can we do that is next
level to to humanize our brand,
513
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:13.679
to to make people have affinity for
our brand? How can we get people
514
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:16.079
to really like us and not just
get what they came to get and bounce
515
00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:21.599
off. Yeah. Ultimately, what
we're saying like this is a good reminder
516
00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:24.440
that you look for search or intent, you try to align to that,
517
00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:30.039
and then you bring We talked about
this in the last time we got together,
518
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:34.239
guys, but like having a brand
voice doc that shows like this is
519
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.000
what makes us unique, this is
our outlook on the world. You bring
520
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:42.039
that brand voice to the table as
well, and search or intent plus that,
521
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:45.719
like, that's that's the sweet spot, the one I wanted to highlight
522
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:49.840
two from these findings, I just
was reminded over and over again, probably
523
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:52.119
because I live in B two B
growth world and in podcast world, like
524
00:37:52.360 --> 00:38:00.239
podcasting is a fantastic organic search driver. And there's some ways that we've apped
525
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:02.320
into this, and there's some ways
even as a podcast agency, that we
526
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:07.800
could be better at this. And
you think of link building, I think
527
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:12.880
of guest appearances where we're giving the
embed code for that episode to our guests
528
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:17.199
and they're putting it on their website. That's fantastic sharing your unique p o
529
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:21.840
V in a video, but then
having that as an audio format, having
530
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:24.760
that is written copy that then people
can search for and they'll find not just
531
00:38:24.880 --> 00:38:29.679
the long form article blog you wrote, but they now have a link where
532
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:34.079
they can hear your voice, they
can see your face increased impressions. You're
533
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:37.960
using podcast content in other formats.
So we have this conversation and then it
534
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:43.960
becomes a linked in text post or
it becomes what There's a million different ways
535
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:51.079
that podcasting can be an organic search
driver, and that excites me that like
536
00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:54.000
to just think through how people can
use this as a as a strategy to
537
00:38:54.719 --> 00:39:00.079
aligned to search intent. Know,
the type of content that your your ideal
538
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:05.639
customer, your ideal client wants.
They're searching for their pain, and then
539
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:08.760
you're creating it. You're making it
highly personal like Logan was talking about,
540
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:13.519
and you're infusing your brand voice like
this is the medium to do it.
541
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:16.360
That's that's my takeaway. I mean, for a bit there, Benji,
542
00:39:16.719 --> 00:39:22.360
we even used Google off of that
soup to actually drive what podcast topics should
543
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:28.320
be. So going going to Google, putting in particular keywords related to,
544
00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:30.960
you know, some of what our
clients did, and then going okay,
545
00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:36.599
that's clearly something people are interested in. And then that informed that was the
546
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:40.159
editorial stret I mean that that informed
the content calendar and like what episodes we
547
00:39:40.199 --> 00:39:45.480
actually created for their show. And
so while you're also creating an article that
548
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:49.559
you know is going to rank you're
simultaneously creating rich media. Can I just
549
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:52.719
say this as we wind down the
conversation, I have slack open and I
550
00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:59.480
just saw a new inbound booking with
one of our sales folks, And how
551
00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:06.400
did you hear about us online search? Very timely and very fitting. We
552
00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:12.000
almost don't need an outro. We
should just end it right there. I
553
00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:15.079
love it. Thanks for sharing that, Logan. Well. We hope that
554
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:17.559
this has been an insightful conversation.
I know I continue to learn a lot
555
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:21.840
from this. I love seeing the
results from this research and getting to break
556
00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:24.079
it down here on B two B
Growth. If you ever have a question,
557
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:27.679
if you want to reach out talk
to us, you can search for
558
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:34.239
James Logan myself over on LinkedIn and
we would appreciate a conversation with you.
559
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:38.400
And uh we'll be back next week
with another one of these original research episodes.
560
00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:54.000
Thanks for listening, everybody, and
keep doing work that matters. We're
561
00:40:54.039 --> 00:40:59.199
always excited to have conversations with leaders
on the front lines of marketing. If
562
00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:02.000
there's a marketing director or a chief
marketing officer that you think we need to
563
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:07.480
have on the show, reach out
email me Benji dot Block at sweet fish
564
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:09.079
media dot com. I look forward
to hearing from you