The Marketing KPIs Your CEO Should Care About | Original Research

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is B two B growth. 2 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:22.359 Welcome in everybody here at sweet fish and B two B growth. We place 3 00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:27.760 a ton of value on experimentation and on continued evolution, and so we say 4 00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:31.920 it this way. We say hone your craft and with that heart. Today 5 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:37.560 is the second episode that we've created to break down original research that we've recently 6 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:42.600 done. Last year we sat down with a hundred marketing leaders and we began 7 00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:46.960 this original research project to get a sense of where teams were at. And 8 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:50.759 so we're asking questions like what's the most overrated B two B marketing trend or 9 00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:54.560 what technology are you looking to add to your tech stack? And you can 10 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:59.679 expect that there's gonna be an episode each week dissecting this research for the four 11 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:03.399 seable future. And if you haven't listened to last week's episode, I encourage 12 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:07.400 you to do that. It's on your marketing team's biggest struggle and it was 13 00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:11.280 a fascinating discussion with some really great takeaway. So I want to say thanks 14 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:15.040 to every B Two B marketing leader that sat down with us. You gave 15 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:19.040 us your time, you gave us your insights and we've been able to to 16 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:23.799 pull some things and that leads to today's discussion and the question. The jumping 17 00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:29.239 off point for today is what are the marketing KPI s that your CEO is 18 00:01:29.319 --> 00:01:34.319 looking at regularly? So, after pulling the hundred B two B marketing leaders, 19 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:37.959 we're going to tell you the findings here in a second, but for 20 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:42.120 today's discussion, back with me, James Carberry, founder CEO head of marketing 21 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:48.000 here at sweet fish and Logan, lyles overseas revenue, both sales and marketing. 22 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:52.280 Guys excited for this conversation and James, I'M gonna kick it off with 23 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:56.079 you because you are in the perfect role to speak to this. Let me 24 00:01:56.120 --> 00:02:00.599 pose the question at you. What are the marketing Kpis that you look at 25 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:06.359 regularly, that you're checking? Yeah, so it's not necessarily a marketing KPI, 26 00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:08.439 this first one, but I'm looking at churn, so that is, 27 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:14.800 are we keeping the clients that are already paying us and what can we do 28 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:19.039 to drive that number lower and lower? So I'm thinking a lot about our 29 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:23.879 product or service and how it can continue to deliver more and more value to 30 00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:28.199 our clients. So so we don't have to because it's obviously much more expensive 31 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:30.560 to go and acquire new clients and it is to just keep the ones you 32 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:34.240 have. So that one stop of mind for me. I guess some organizations 33 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:38.199 marketing would own churn, some wouldn't, but the marketing KPI that I'm looking 34 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:44.879 at is inbound are are are we creating demand that is driving people to come 35 00:02:44.919 --> 00:02:47.319 to us so that we don't have to beat down their door and twist their 36 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:51.400 arm to try to talk them into wanting to do a podcast? Are we 37 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:55.360 creating enough demand in the market through what we're doing with our SEO strategy, 38 00:02:55.479 --> 00:03:00.759 what we're doing on Linkedin, what we're doing with this show, so that 39 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:02.879 we are making people want to come to us, because we know when people 40 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:08.319 come to US sales cycles are way lower and the results that we can actually 41 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:13.159 get for a client are better because they've been thinking about it for a while, 42 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:15.080 they know that they want to do this when they come to us and 43 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:19.639 so they're more invested in actually doing what they need to do to get results. 44 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:22.759 So that's what I'm looking at. And then I wonder Logan on your 45 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:25.879 end when you're looking at revenue, because you also have a sales mind right, 46 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:30.319 so you might be thinking some slightly different things. I know turned was 47 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:32.039 like that's a good one to keep your eye on, so I'm glad you 48 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:35.719 pointed that out. James Logan, what what stands out to you? What 49 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:39.080 do you care about? Yes, we're looking at regularly, weekly and monthly. 50 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:46.120 How many new sales qualified opportunities are we generating right because that is a 51 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:52.360 leading indicator of sales success. But it is a lag measure of the work 52 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:55.599 that we're doing, as James said, on the marketing front to drive inbound 53 00:03:55.680 --> 00:03:59.400 demand. So some people look at that and they look at the number of 54 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:03.479 opportunities is. They also look at the total amount of that pipeline. We 55 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:08.360 tend to look at it in a number of opportunities right now because we know 56 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:13.080 based on our conversion rates and our average deal size and the average Mr r, 57 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:15.680 since we work very much like a Sass business where we have a monthly 58 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:19.720 retainer for our services, even though we're a service based business. So we've 59 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:25.079 done the math to back into what our revenue goal is and backed out of 60 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:27.920 that. Okay, then, how many deals do we need to be working 61 00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:30.720 based on our close rates? So we have a number looking at weekly and 62 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:34.959 monthly, how many new sales. Qualified opportunities do we need to be delivering 63 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:39.399 to the sales team for them to work to hit our revenue number? And 64 00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:44.680 that is a very important marketing KPI. Yep, yeah, when we asked 65 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:48.199 the question far in a way it's we're basically touching on this right now. 66 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:55.439 The CEO specifically checking pipeline. So it's like thirty six percent of those that 67 00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:01.160 we interviewed said pipeline, runners up, revenue, M Q l S. 68 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:05.360 I have a list here, win rates. Time to close. But we're 69 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:10.879 driving out ultimately, like what's in pipe, and it leads to like this, 70 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:14.160 this follow up question that I wish we asked that we are asking on 71 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:16.519 our next round of research. But it's like okay, so then define for 72 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:21.879 me in your organization, how do you think of qualified pipeline? Because even 73 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:26.959 that answer, that nuanced answer, is a lot to learn from. And 74 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:30.360 and so some specific responses. Chris Willis. He said just straight up pipeline, 75 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:34.519 which is funny because we have recordings of these interviews and there's several where 76 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:38.480 the person is just like one word answer, pipeline, and they're like dead 77 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:42.639 pan looking into the screen. Nick Bradley, amount of stuff on top of 78 00:05:42.680 --> 00:05:46.959 funnel, those downloading lead magnets, lead magnets to discovery, discovery to close. 79 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:51.720 I liked the way that he uh kind of parted that out and looking 80 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:56.519 at those sections. I think that's that's insightful. Isabelle, our CEO. 81 00:05:56.839 --> 00:06:00.160 I think that can be really helpful looking at what is the quality of the 82 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:04.199 pipeline that you're driving right, not just the number of opportunities or the amount 83 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:08.319 of pipeline. Okay, are we driving a ton of this, but our 84 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:13.839 clothes rate is actually going down. Our conversion rate from M Quel to discovery 85 00:06:13.879 --> 00:06:17.399 call is dropping. Okay, that's that's great that there's a bigger M Q 86 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:23.920 l number, but it's a bunch of crap. So I like what Nick 87 00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:28.759 was saying there and looking at not only the amount of pipeline but those indicators 88 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:31.959 to say is this worthwhile pipeline that we should be giving to our sales team? 89 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:38.519 Yeah, those sections super insightful, like lead magnet to discovery, discovery 90 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:41.600 to close. And when you're able to break it down that way, you 91 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:44.639 can also just be like, okay, this is sort of the one wheel 92 00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:46.839 that's off and like we want to rethink through. You know what, we're 93 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:51.399 providing, and so I I really appreciated his answer. Isabelle, our CEO, 94 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:55.639 is always looking at a R R and you're recurring revenue, and our 95 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:59.040 president is always looking at pipeline generation. So it's kind of right in that 96 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:03.560 zone. Derek Slayton, pipeline size and health, win rates, Mrr a 97 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:12.000 CV and then Jennifer, current conversion and opportunities. So with this feedback there's 98 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:15.959 so much we can jump into. There's some remedies that I want to get 99 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:18.360 to and in some key insights. But, James, what's like the first 100 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:23.040 thing when you hear pipeline, pipeline, pipeline, it's like this recurring theme 101 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:28.680 that that initially jumps out to you. Yeah, I mean for me personally 102 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:32.120 running, you know, running a podcast agency that serves B two B marketing 103 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:38.199 leaders. So this isn't necessarily relevant for everybody listening to this because your market 104 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:42.519 is different than ours, your buyers aren't necessarily marketing leaders. But for me 105 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:48.040 I think about how we need to be optimizing our service because we serve marketing 106 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:53.160 leaders who are being measured by pipeline. We have to do a better job 107 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:57.800 of optimizing our service so that it drives pipeline for our clients, and so 108 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:00.800 that's the thing that stands out to me. We just back from Denver with 109 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:05.399 our leadership team talking about building, about really revitalizing, refreshing the offer that 110 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:09.120 we take to market and we spend a lot of time thinking about like what 111 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:16.439 is the dream outcome of our clients, and this research was incredibly helpful in 112 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:20.199 figuring out what that dream outcome was, because we are fresh off of hearing 113 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:24.759 a hundred different B two B marketing leaders basically say I'm measured based on pipeline. 114 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.079 That's what I think about, that's what I care about, and even 115 00:08:28.120 --> 00:08:31.919 even in the research that emily from our team has been doing talking to some 116 00:08:31.960 --> 00:08:35.879 existing clients, talking to our sales team or accounts team, they don't necessarily 117 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.600 say that. Like they'll say things like thought leadership, they'll say things like, 118 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.879 you know, building brand awareness, they'll say things like that, but 119 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:46.080 when you ask them what are the metrics that your CEO is looking at, 120 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.159 they all say what we just talked about. So that it was interesting to 121 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:54.279 me. It's it's not necessarily you know, package. The same way, 122 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:58.120 people come to US thinking they want this when in reality they want that. 123 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:03.120 Because it ultimately leads to pipeline revenue. Yeah, it's like thought leadership is 124 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:07.720 is great, but like if you could tie it back to revenue more directly, 125 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:09.320 people, I think they get a little scared, like if we start 126 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:13.120 a show, is it going to directly be how are we gonna be able 127 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:16.799 to prove out that it actually added revenue? So we'll we'll say it's we'll 128 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:18.679 put in the thought leadership bucket so that people are like, Oh, okay, 129 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:22.759 I get it. It's like the slightly different mindset where if you could 130 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.039 tie it to revenue, it's gonna level up the way you can talk about 131 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:30.679 it to the c suite at your organization. So I get that and that's 132 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:33.320 that's going to be our challenge is figuring out if we can do that, 133 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:37.840 then we can then start doing that on behalf of our clients and I think 134 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:41.679 we can have a really compelling offer. M Logan, on your end, 135 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:46.080 pipeline, pipeline, pipeline, I love that you're but you know, the 136 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:50.000 sales side and talking about like what's actually qualified you. You can speak to 137 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:54.720 that pretty directly. So I love that you have like both marketing and sales 138 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.679 brain going on. What what jumps out to you about the responses that you 139 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:03.279 you saw from this research? I think that this is something that will come 140 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:05.960 out in further research, but one of the questions that it poses to us 141 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:13.320 is how do each of these marketing leaders define pipeline within their organization and do 142 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:16.879 they define it the same way that their CEO defines it and the same way 143 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:22.759 as their sales leader defines it? So I think question number one is how 144 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:26.919 do you define pipeline, and then number two, are all the parties involved 145 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:31.519 aligned on that definition? And then number three, do you have the mechanisms 146 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:35.200 in place to measure that for accountability? So you have to have an actual 147 00:10:35.240 --> 00:10:39.080 definition, then you have to have alignment and then you have to have a 148 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:43.879 way to analyze that. So just saying you know pipeline and okay, we're 149 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:48.000 all on the same page, I think there's a few more steps to it 150 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:50.519 to make sure that looking at it that way is actually going to be helpful 151 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:54.600 to make sure you're hitting your marketing goals. Yeah, so then let's dive 152 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:58.639 into remedies, like what are some things that we need to be thinking about 153 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:03.039 and taking away from these findings, because there is further research. I love 154 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:07.799 how you just succinctly say here's some follow up questions and things to be thinking 155 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:11.559 about the alignment that this could create once you have the qualified pipeline, like 156 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:15.480 what this actually is for us. That's that's obviously crucial. But I think 157 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:18.000 there's some things that jump out to me, so I'll just go first year. 158 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:26.080 I think after reading through, watching through this original research, all marketing 159 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:28.440 needs to go back to brand and demand. And it's funny because I was 160 00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:33.720 actually commenting on linkedin about this there was someone harping on the demand piece, 161 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:39.960 like everything should go back essentially to revenue driving activities, which, like from 162 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:45.080 a marketing perspective, I totally agree. But I think if you don't say 163 00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:50.000 brand and demand in most B two B organizations you get lost in demand world 164 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:56.799 and you don't realize that what drives demand is brand. And what I mean 165 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:01.440 by brand is affinity. Like you gotta actually not not logos, but like 166 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:07.559 people on screens, the type of content that you come out with, everything 167 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:11.639 that's associated with you as an organization is brand, and if you're out in 168 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:16.200 front of people and they are behind your brand, that ultimately drives demand. 169 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:20.279 So to me it's a both and and when people get lost in demand world, 170 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:24.279 you wonder what's going to ultimately drive that and we try to demand capture 171 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:26.080 instead of demand create. And we'll get there in a second, but that 172 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:30.080 was like the first thing. When we're thinking of pipeline, we have to 173 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.600 think demand and we have to think brandon. We have to think about both. 174 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:37.879 Yeah, and and I think the second point for me, Bingji, 175 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:43.360 you know, to your point about brand is what creates demand, and the 176 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:50.000 way that you drive the kind of brand that creates demand is you have to 177 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:54.639 have content that's resonant. You have to have articulate, well articulated points of 178 00:12:54.720 --> 00:13:01.440 view that help transform your market's way of thinking. And so, you know, 179 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:03.080 I saw Chris Walker Post about this a few weeks ago, but it's 180 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:11.399 like a pressure test for is is your content resonating? Is what you're putting 181 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.440 out into the world, whether it's in a podcast or a blog post or 182 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:18.320 a linkedin post or regardless of what it is. The person on the other 183 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.159 end of that, your market, your ideal buyer, are they going to 184 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:30.039 consume that piece of content and legitimately think that they have an unfair advantage in 185 00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:35.600 their job because they consumed this piece of content and I love that as a 186 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:41.200 mechanism of measurement for is this good enough? Like when we were talking, 187 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:45.799 we spent almost thirty minutes. In addition to all the research and that we 188 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:48.759 that we did to do this episode, in addition to the insights that timmy 189 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:52.399 generated, in addition to the work that Benji did to prep the doc that's 190 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:56.440 doing this, we did another thirty minutes just to make sure that the folks 191 00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:01.600 listening to this episode. I think, man, I've got an unfair advantage 192 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:05.240 in my job as a B two B marketing leader because I listened to this 193 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:09.039 episode. We know that if we can do that over and over and over 194 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:13.000 again, we are going to build a brand that people adore, and that 195 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:18.399 brand, that affinity, is going to map to revenue for sweet fish. 196 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:20.240 It's gonna wrap, you know, map first to pipeline, which then is 197 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:26.879 going to generate revenue because our content is resonant, because it gives people an 198 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:31.879 unfair advantage in their job, and so that was my one of my big 199 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:35.480 takeaways from looking at this research. I think it's interesting because when you think 200 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:41.879 of like brand and demand and you think of content that resonates, like you 201 00:14:41.919 --> 00:14:46.080 either think the bar is really really high, so you never get in the 202 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:48.879 game or you think it's really low and you can just like pass with some 203 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:52.000 subpar content. Like I think there's so many places to get lost in this 204 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.159 conversation around how do you actually create content that resonates? I know that's personally 205 00:14:56.159 --> 00:15:01.000 a place that I've been lost and it's like one of the easiest remedies to 206 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:05.039 that is, do you have a doc? I was actually talking about this 207 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.240 on Mike Club, like a doc that shares your point of view. And 208 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:13.120 then, James, I saw you actually posted a poll on linkedin about that 209 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:18.279 very thing. Where are you capturing the things that are most important for your 210 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:24.559 brand to get across, like where is the language that you use to talk 211 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.600 about what you care about most? And if you have that document, then 212 00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:31.320 everyone starts speaking the same language. If it's a podcast, you might call 213 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:35.639 it a show Bible and have a portion where you document some of those things, 214 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:41.200 even if it's just a blank like Google doc that you then start filling 215 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:45.759 in with like this is how we talk about x, and over time you 216 00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:48.919 get some of those and then you can get create videos, sound bites around 217 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:52.639 those things. People are going to resonate with the brand more and more. 218 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:56.399 When you have something like that and again, then that ultimately, once you 219 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.919 have your tone of voice locked in, can generate pipe on because people actually 220 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:03.919 know what you stand for or, in some cases, like commodity content, 221 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:08.000 something we stand against. Yeah, we put together our brand story several months 222 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.360 ago and so it's the brand, you know. So that's what we call 223 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:17.360 it and that brand story has fed so much of what we talked about now 224 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:21.879 as a marketing team and across our entire organ comes directly from that brand story. 225 00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:23.240 We talked about it and we point people back to it on our all 226 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:30.519 hands. It is a unifying language internally which shapes the content we're sharing externally, 227 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:36.039 and it's so cool to now see the market talking about things that originated 228 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.399 on that dock. So, you know, our brand's enemy commodity content. 229 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:44.279 Affinity over awareness. Like we're seeing people, more and more people talk about 230 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:48.000 affinity and I'm confident it's because we're shouting about it as much as we are. 231 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:52.720 We're not afraid to. I think one of the fears that people have 232 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.720 is, Oh, well, I've already said you know, I've already said 233 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.879 that. I can't say it again and you've got to get that out of 234 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:02.799 your head. You and if you have three to five strong points of view, 235 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:07.359 you have to be pounding those points of view over and over and over 236 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.319 and over again and think of creative ways to do it. Obviously you know 237 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:14.400 it's whether it's a funny video or it's a you know, talking head micro 238 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:18.319 video, or it's a podcast episode or it's a song that you create. 239 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:22.880 Emily Brady from our team created a song with a guy named o bed from 240 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:26.039 another marketing agency, client boost, and it was all about like P O 241 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:30.079 v Discovery. We have a point of view around how to discover points of 242 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:34.680 view, and so emily did this incredible like song, slash rap, with 243 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:38.680 a with a Linkedin influencer, and it got a ton of engagement. It 244 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:44.200 resonated with our market because we were saying that same stuff before, but we 245 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:48.079 had never done it in a in a rap song. And so I think 246 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:51.920 once you have those points of view clear, though, that's the launching point 247 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:53.039 for being able to figure out. Okay, how do I say this in 248 00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:56.759 a hundred different ways? Yeah, and the way that that connects to what 249 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:02.000 we're talking about here with pipeline is that if you think about it, your 250 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:06.880 marketing team, if you're responsible for pipeline. So many people have been recently 251 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:11.240 talking about demand generation is divided into two categories, right, demand capture and 252 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:15.799 demand creation. Demand Capture, okay, we're running Google ads, we're doing 253 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:21.599 these things to capture the demand that is out there. You are capturing a 254 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:25.720 portion of the Pie. How and maybe you can grow that slice of the 255 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:30.640 Pie of folks that are aware of your solution, they're aware of their need 256 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:36.000 right. And so for us that's that is being the number one go to 257 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:37.759 when people say, Hey, I want to have a B two B podcast, 258 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:41.480 I know why I want to do it, I know kind of how 259 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:44.119 I want to do it. Now I just need to go help, find 260 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:48.799 someone to help me do it right. That is different than demand creation. 261 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:52.160 Demand creation is US taking our points of view, as James was just talking 262 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:56.720 about, out into the market and saying having a B two B podcast solves 263 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.799 these things and these are the ways that you do it and these are the 264 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.319 ways you could be unsuccessful doing it right. And so hitting the market with 265 00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:11.519 those points of view can actually lead to demand creation, because if you're responsible 266 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:15.519 for pipeline and you're only doing demand capture. It's a race to the bottom. 267 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:18.039 You can capture a bigger portion of that, but it's going to be 268 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:22.759 get harder, it's going to get more expensive and eventually the Pie could shrink. 269 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:27.200 Right. But if you're focused on not only demand capture but also demand 270 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:33.000 creation, you can purposefully, from your influence, make the pie bigger and 271 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:36.519 control how big of a slice of the pie that your brand is getting. 272 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:38.599 And one example of this, to go back to what James was saying a 273 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:42.839 second ago, that our prospects are starting to recognize this. James got a 274 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:48.119 comment from Jonathan Youwing, from a P C O Worldwide, and it said 275 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:52.200 this was on a Linkedin Post that James did. The content from your team 276 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:56.799 members has taken me from unaware to solution aware. I've watched cutdowns from a 277 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.039 few of you, have visited the website. Haven't us into the PODCAST, 278 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:03.680 not in a place where I want to talk to sales yet, but you've 279 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:08.880 convinced me that the complexity is worth hiring a services vendor with a proven process 280 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:15.200 right, and the process that we went through to refine our points of view 281 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:21.119 to start putting those out into the market has created new demand and that is 282 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:25.279 how you do demand creation rather than demand capture, not to two to our 283 00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:29.279 own horn, but to give an example of what that actually looks like because, 284 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:33.480 like you said, Benji, these conversations around what is pipeline and what 285 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:37.519 what is affinity that you're creating and what is really brand? That's a real 286 00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:44.079 world, actual example from the last week. Yeah, and I think sometimes 287 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:48.519 people think about demand capture and demand creation as competing, but you should be 288 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:52.960 doing both. I mean a lot of inbound opportunities that come to us when 289 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.720 we have our open text field that says, how did you hear about us? 290 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.920 They heard about us on Google. They're searching their actively the demands already 291 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:04.400 been created and whether they heard Dave gearhart talking about it or Chris Walker talking 292 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:07.480 about the power podcasting or, you know, there's Neil Patel talking about it. 293 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.519 There's a lot of big time marketing influencers that are creating the demand for 294 00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:15.599 us, which is where we're very blessed to be in a position where we're 295 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:19.559 offering a service where there is a lot of demand being created outside of our 296 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:26.279 organization and we're capturing that demand because we've strategically put content on the Internet that 297 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.359 Google's index and people are finding us through that. So demand capture is good. 298 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:33.519 You absolutely should be doing demand capture. When we did this original research, 299 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:37.440 another not to get too much on a side train, but a lot 300 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:41.920 of people said organic search is the most effective marketing channel. So it's working 301 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:45.400 for a lot of people. But to your point Logan, you can either 302 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:49.799 go after the three percent of people where demand has already been created for them 303 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:52.880 and and now you just need to capture that demand where you can go after 304 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:59.119 the ent that are not problem aware yet and you can go and make them 305 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:04.039 problem aware by creating demand and putting content intentionally in front of your your entire 306 00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:08.480 market, not just the sliver, the three percent that are in market for 307 00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:14.079 your solution. So if you're a marketing leader listening to this right now, 308 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:18.200 what I'd be thinking through is, okay, my CEO is looking at pipeline. 309 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:22.480 I've been hired to help with that number. How am I going to 310 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:26.160 do that? I would say set the table. You need to set the 311 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:30.359 table, and what I mean by that is in conversations with your CEO or 312 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:34.240 with that level of leadership, you should be talking about and educating internally, 313 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:38.880 market internally. The fact that you need brand and demand. Start talking about 314 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:42.319 both and how they influence each other. If you do that, well, 315 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:47.559 then internally you start to create that alignment. You line up on metrics like 316 00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:51.400 Logan was talking about earlier, and that starts to create some momentum for you. 317 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:57.599 Content that resonates wins right, and then companies that create demand are ultimately 318 00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:03.000 going to create pipeline. And then it's not just demand capture, which is 319 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:07.839 great, but it's demand capture and demand creation working in tandem, which leads 320 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:10.400 me to kind of like this question. I want to pose that both of 321 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:14.880 Y'all as we start to wrap here. If you're going we need to create 322 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:19.680 some some metrics, some ways to show that both brand and affinity are working 323 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:25.839 and demand and pipeline, like, these things are working like in tandem. 324 00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:29.119 What would you say to measure? What are the things that we should be 325 00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:33.519 looking at as marketing leaders and paying attention to to then set ourselves up to 326 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:37.480 show the boardroom the work we're doing and to just like better demand, create 327 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.440 and capture? What comes to mind when you think of what you should be 328 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:47.160 looking, tracking and being aware of? I think a lot of marketers default 329 00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:55.000 to saying something quantitative here and they're looking for a a number, and I've 330 00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:56.759 heard uh Dave Gerhart talked about this, if her Chris Walker. So I 331 00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:00.200 don't I don't want to pretend like this is my original thought, but I 332 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:07.039 think marketers need to get better at collecting qualitative feedback. So that comment that 333 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:11.599 Logan just read to you, which was a reply to my comment on Cody 334 00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:18.359 Goff from our team's post, I evangelized the crap out of that comment on 335 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:21.799 our internal slack. I saw it and I was like this is incredible. 336 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:23.240 I sent it to our marketing team, or sent it to our our entire 337 00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:30.079 team, like that's qualitative feedback what that guy said. You know, to 338 00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:33.240 boil that into a number it would have meant nothing. But sharing that comment 339 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:38.119 with the entire team got them fired up and excited about our marketing strategy, 340 00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:44.759 which is we're creating demand by dominating Linkedin, and it reinforced that what we're 341 00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:48.799 doing is working. And so I think having mechanisms in place where you can 342 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:52.559 collect that qualitative feedback, like we have a form, you know, when 343 00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:56.319 someone signs up to talk to one of our podcast strategists, it's an open 344 00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.160 field text. Chris Walker has been talking about this for a year now. 345 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:02.839 How did you hear about us? It's not a drop down menu where it's 346 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.319 they have to select one of four options. It's just open field text. 347 00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:11.240 They right in and we have those forms. As soon as it is it 348 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:15.160 fills out, it drives into our slack channel. So it shows up in 349 00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:18.440 our winds channel every time we get an opportunity, so the entire team can 350 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:22.480 see where our demand is coming from. Is it coming from Google? Is 351 00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:25.640 it coming from Linkedin? Is it coming from a client referral? And so 352 00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:30.359 I think creating mechanisms where you can get visibility across the organization to qualitative feedback 353 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:33.880 is, I think, a strong place to start there. Yeah, I'd 354 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:40.039 agree with James. I think implementing self reported attribution right as he was just 355 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:44.119 saying, is key and then having a mechanism to share that. I would 356 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:48.920 say also looking at your marketing team, looking at ways that your social and 357 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:56.839 digital teams can capture that qualitative insights from social mentions and those sorts of things. 358 00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:00.440 So I'm not quite sure you know what tools I would recommend there, 359 00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:06.799 but having that as part of someone's function to gather that qualitative feedback on a 360 00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:11.599 regular basis outside of the self reported attribution, just looking at Oh, we're 361 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:15.559 getting mentioned by these sorts of people. Right, we're looking at listen notes 362 00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:19.279 dot com and seeing how often sweet fish is being mentioned on podcasts. Right, 363 00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:23.480 that would probably be a skewed number for us, but other brands could 364 00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:26.880 set up that search and check that regularly and see, oh well, we 365 00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.680 got five mentions on different podcasts and actually this is a really big one. 366 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:36.880 Those sorts of things don't show up in marketing attribution reports. But if you 367 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:40.920 have mechanisms in place and there are some additional tools you could use as well 368 00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:47.240 to capture some of this qualitative market feedback and share that with the right people 369 00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:52.400 in a regular way, then you will succeed. Because demand capture is much 370 00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:56.680 easier to track. What was our click through rate? What was our ad 371 00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:00.480 spend? How many leads did we drive? Right? But that and work 372 00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:03.920 and the demand creation. You have to find some ways to just give the 373 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:10.519 team that, hey, these leading indicators are going to lead to these lag 374 00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:15.119 measures over here in demand capture because, like James said, demand creation and 375 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:21.119 demand capture aren't competing right, one feeds the other. But because the first 376 00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:26.640 demand creation isn't super easy to see early and isn't always super easy to see 377 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:32.079 quantifiably early. Then you can give up on those efforts and just focus on 378 00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.000 demand capture, but, as we said earlier, that can be a losing 379 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:38.880 battle over time. Yeah, great things to measure there. I think this 380 00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:44.319 conversation has been absolutely fascinating. I loved how people chimed in. I know, 381 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:48.000 James, you posted on on linkedin about this. I would tell people 382 00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:51.680 go read the comments. There's so much in the comments of people just talking 383 00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:56.160 about pipeline and even we invited Casey Cox onto a future episode of B Two 384 00:27:56.200 --> 00:28:00.440 b growth because of her comment where she was just talking about how she hears 385 00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:06.119 a lot of CEO s talking about marketing source pipeline and it gave her some 386 00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:08.079 concerns and she posted her concerns and I was like, Oh, these are 387 00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:11.240 so good and I know you thought that too, James, so we're gonna 388 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:14.680 have around future episode to talk about some of her concerns. I love how 389 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:18.599 it's just getting people talking and there's so much more to discuss here. So 390 00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:21.720 I do want to say as we wrap up, go over to Linkedin. 391 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:26.920 Feel free to connect with James Logan Myself. Tell us what your CEO cares 392 00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:30.000 about. What are they measuring, and we'd love to have a back and 393 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:33.480 forth with you on this topic. And and again, if you're in a 394 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:37.839 position where you can educate up and you can markt within go for it like 395 00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:41.599 do that. Start talking about the power of brand and demand, and I 396 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:45.839 think it will be massively beneficial in your organization and in your team. So 397 00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:49.759 we're having insightful conversations like this all the time here on B two B growth. 398 00:28:51.079 --> 00:28:55.799 We really appreciate that you're listening. If you haven't yet followed the podcast, 399 00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:59.119 please do so so you never miss an episode. We'll be back again 400 00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:03.400 next week with an other conversations specifically on this original research, and we hope 401 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.839 that it's giving you some fantastic ideas for your team and thanks for listening, 402 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:23.359 everybody. Keep doing work that matters. If you enjoy today's show, hit 403 00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:27.440 subscribe for more marketing goodness, and if you really enjoyed today's show, take 404 00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:32.279 a second to rate and review the podcast on the platform you're listening to it 405 00:29:32.359 --> 00:29:36.599 on right now. If you really really enjoyed this episode, share the love 406 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:40.000 by texting it to a friend who would find it insightful. Thanks for listening 407 00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:41.119 and thanks for sharing