The New Rules of Marketing and PR, with David Meerman Scott

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:16.800 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth, coming 2 00:00:16.839 --> 00:00:20.039 to you from just outside Austin, Texas. I'm your host, Benjie Block, 3 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:23.359 and with me today I have rex and emily. Rex are is our 4 00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:27.960 VP of revenue at sweet fish, emily our creative content lead. And you 5 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:30.879 guys are like, where's Dan? Well, he actually just had a baby, 6 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:35.280 so shout out to Dan and his family. Congratulations there and we are 7 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:39.479 so glad that he gets to spend some time away and with the new the 8 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:43.000 new baby and with his wife. So all right, here's what's up for 9 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:47.439 today. In about ten minutes we will share a featured conversation, a chat 10 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:51.560 that I had with David Merriman Scott. He's the author of the new rules 11 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:56.119 of marketing and PR fascinating conversation. Just came out with his eighth addition, 12 00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:00.479 and so we have a lot to dive into there. But like we do 13 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:03.679 Monday's, Wednesdays and Fridays, we're here for about a ten minute conversation, 14 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:07.439 something that the three of us are seeing around marketing, something that kind of 15 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:11.760 got our interest levels up. And today, Emily, it's your turn, 16 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:12.799 so I turn it over to you. What are you paying attention to in 17 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:19.239 marketing right now? Yeah, so today I'm bringing a blog from Seth Goden 18 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:22.120 and I'll just read a short part of it. He says marketing is the 19 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:25.959 work of helping people get what they've wanted all along. It's about establishing the 20 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:29.799 conditions for a small group of people to eagerly spread the word and build connection. 21 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:32.439 And then this line, I think is pretty key and what I want 22 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:36.799 to talk about. He says taking attention versus storytelling and service. Sometimes it 23 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:40.760 feels like the short cuts and deep personalization and scale are the only option. 24 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:44.319 Then a great marketing project comes along and we're reminded that in fact we can 25 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:49.560 do work we're proud of. So the main topic here is the Hustle of 26 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:55.000 marketing if you're just trying to take attention or if you're being thoughtful with storytelling. 27 00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:57.480 And this is a conversation we have a lot at sweet fish and it 28 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:04.599 reminded me of thinking through brand awareness or brand affinity, thinking through a lot 29 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:08.120 of people ask how often they should be posting and there's a difference of opinion 30 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:13.960 there whether it should be put out as much content as you can or hold 31 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:16.520 the reins a little bit and be thoughtful about it. So we're on this 32 00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:21.120 journey to learn how to tell better stories, how to train our host and 33 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:25.000 telling better stories instead of just putting out more content and trying to take attention. 34 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:28.919 And this is something I see on is working on social every day is 35 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:30.520 there's a lot of times where I have these ideas and like Oh, I 36 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:34.319 should, I should put this out there, and then I have to think, 37 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:38.280 but is it beneficial it? Does it actually help people? So, 38 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:40.599 yeah, what do you guys think about this idea of putting out a ton 39 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:46.479 of content just for the sake of attention versus storytelling that line. Sometimes it 40 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:51.639 feels like the short cuts and deep personalization and scale are the only option and 41 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:54.080 then a great marketing project comes along and we're reminded that in fact, we 42 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:57.319 can do work we're proud of. I'm like, Oh, like, let's 43 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:01.240 read that like five times for people. But you need that shot in the 44 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:05.560 arm right because I don't think we live there, because it's our job. 45 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.120 So you're never going to just only operate from that space. You're always going 46 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:13.800 to have that push and pull. So I appreciate his sentiment and it's almost 47 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:15.199 like you want a leader that's going to nudge you back in that direction, 48 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:19.639 and we want to be those people as well that like as much as we 49 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:23.840 can. We don't just put it out for the sake of like attention and 50 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:29.280 like a flash in the PAN type marketing campaign or social push. So to 51 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:30.879 me, I'm with you on this. It's just so hard, when you're 52 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:35.919 like in the Daytoday, not to go to the route of just gotta meet 53 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.120 this quota, got to do this thing, and so I feel I feel 54 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:43.120 this a lot. Yeah, listen, I think you know marketings and art 55 00:03:43.159 --> 00:03:46.719 and a science. There's the two facets to marketing in every bit of marketing 56 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:50.719 that we do. I think the hard thing is that some people lean in 57 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:53.759 one direction and neither direction is wrong. You have to have both. So, 58 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:58.680 you know, let's say we lean more towards the the science, or 59 00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:01.680 like the we just need a certain amount of work, because we know that 60 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:04.120 the math plays out there, like if we just do a certain amount of 61 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:06.879 work, you can convert this number of people and we start to like really 62 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:11.240 focus on the tinkering part of it. But the problem is if you've you 63 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:15.599 lean way too far towards the art side. We do really like creative work 64 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:18.000 we're proud of, but it doesn't necessarily move the needle because we haven't thought 65 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:23.680 about how it impacts people from a psychology standpoint or from a conversion standpoint. 66 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:27.120 So, like, I think it's it's hard to strike a balance, and 67 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:30.920 it starts with at the very highest levels, how do we talk about marketing 68 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:38.560 and building awareness with executive team? Like we have to agree what we think 69 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:42.240 marketing looks like for our company before we can say, okay, well then, 70 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.079 what channels and what types of programs were going to build out, and 71 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:47.199 then how are we going to tactically execute? We end up talking a lot 72 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.800 about the tactical execution, but like we're not really deciding at the very highest 73 00:04:50.839 --> 00:04:56.920 levels and getting an alignment that okay, you know, we want to do 74 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.879 great creative work and we're going to also work on conversions. Like we end 75 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:04.319 up just we end up getting pushed around. I think that's ultimately what happens. 76 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:06.519 We talked about a lot about having, you know, marketing, having 77 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:10.720 a seat at the table, and if it doesn't, then marketing gets told 78 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:14.279 what it's going to accomplish, and those are non marketers telling marketers want to 79 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:16.279 accomplish. They have no idea what is even possible, because we're not pushing 80 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:19.000 back. So let's say, if you have a set of table great, 81 00:05:19.079 --> 00:05:23.240 use that seat to set expectations correctly. If you don't have a seat of 82 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:26.399 the table, push back. This is where, you know, Dave Gerhart 83 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:30.240 says you shouldn't work for a Seeo who doesn't get marketing like it's some degree 84 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:31.920 that's true, but to some degree it's not. Because you you have the 85 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:35.199 right to say, actually, here's how it works, here's what's going to 86 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:38.879 happen if we do that, if we just put out a bunch of commodity 87 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:42.279 content, if we're just throwing stuff out there and hoping it sticks. Yeah, 88 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:45.199 sometimes we're going to get a hit, but usually it's going to fall 89 00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:46.879 flat. And what does that do over time? It devalues our brand, 90 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:51.480 it makes people less excited to hear from us. It just decreases our value 91 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:55.720 in the market place over time. So start to the top doesn't mean we 92 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:58.240 can always get there. So sometimes we have to push upward and kind of 93 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:02.560 educate upward. It's interesting because I did an interview with Steve Harder, who's 94 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:06.279 over at he's the CMO at jot form and he's talking about science, art 95 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:11.720 and Voodoo of marketing, and I think what happens is you get like the 96 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:15.879 scientific minded marketer who goes really into like if we just do this, then 97 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:19.279 we'll get this type of you know, and it's all science to them, 98 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:23.879 and you can hit Voodoo even if you just lean into science. And then 99 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:28.240 on the art side you could create something so creative that you strike that magic 100 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:31.319 moment right and then, because you've seen the magic work on either side, 101 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:33.920 you start defending your side like all see, it's in the science, or 102 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:39.079 Oh see, it's in the art, and it's like it's actually this interesting 103 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:42.879 mix where I think it's multiple teammates that have a leaning, and then also 104 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:48.079 your internal ability to go okay, where how do I make sure I continue 105 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:51.240 to have output even when I don't have that level of inspiration? That's what 106 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:58.959 makes US professionals, right, but also I'm actively seeking inspiration that leads to 107 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:03.879 like a good content and better, more creative projects, not just well, 108 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:06.879 I hit this mark or I do this because we've have this goal on a 109 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:12.240 piece of paper or in a sauna or whatever. So I love the the 110 00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:15.759 science and art and Magic Talk of marketing. Because it's it's all three and 111 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:19.639 maybe someone will add another one. Maybe there's something we're missing. Still, 112 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:24.240 emily, any thoughts? I know we kind of like started just going because 113 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:28.240 this is a great topic to bring but I'd love to hear anything you're thinking 114 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:31.519 over there. Yeah, well, well, it seems like in this article 115 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:38.040 he's pitting like storytelling and quality versus like scaling content, and I think that 116 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:42.639 there's definitely a way that you can be strategic about both things. Like if 117 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:46.199 you start off with a good piece of content, you can repurpose it and 118 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:50.319 then that's how you scale it in so many different ways, so it doesn't 119 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:55.040 have to be one or the other necessarily. And also, adding to that, 120 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:58.040 like you said, you if you have a team where you have someone 121 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:01.240 who's more of a analytical thinker, who's more into the data side of it, 122 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.680 and then you have someone who's more to the creative side of it, 123 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:09.480 that's like a that's a powerful match. So I think that's really important to 124 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:13.720 have people checking each other on certain things and saying, well, maybe we 125 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:16.199 should think about it this way. But I love that idea of like actually 126 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:22.920 scaling quality, so it's like quantity and quality. You find what works and 127 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:26.399 you put out more of that or you break it down into other pieces for 128 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:31.720 social in particular. But I'm wondering, Benjie, since your role is as 129 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:37.759 podcast hosts, like how does that look for you, trying to find the 130 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:41.639 meat of an episode and the quality of it but having to produce so many 131 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:46.080 episodes? Yeah, it's just a constant tension and a conversation that we're always 132 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:48.519 having. Like I enjoy getting to talk to this many people, but I 133 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:52.559 also realize in like with the amount of episodes we come out with, it's 134 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:58.480 just it's just a constant tension. You know, I have to like some 135 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.279 days I don't want to show up for this many conversations and other days it's 136 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:03.639 like okay, like I'm in the flow and like like let's just do this 137 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:07.440 thing. It'll be great. So to me, like the back end is 138 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.519 where I'm just continuing to try to get better. I think that's where we're 139 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:16.240 a lot of the conversation is is on how do we pull just the gold 140 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:20.000 out of this conversation we had and really give that to our audience in the 141 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:22.799 best way and to the person that took time out of their schedule to come 142 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:28.840 on be to be growth, like how do we equip them with personal assets 143 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:31.000 that they can use that like look good on them because they came and they 144 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.799 shared their expertise and they said some great stuff. Like want to set them 145 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.600 up to win, you know. So to me that's a big proponent of 146 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:43.000 like great content is. You didn't just put it up somewhere and it exists 147 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:48.039 online now, but like you were able to distribute it well and people are 148 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:52.600 finding it and finding value from it after a week instead of it just dying 149 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:58.600 in the Linkedin Algorithm. But that'll probably always be a battle. Right, 150 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:03.279 Bundie, that's interesting. You're talking about something that like really hits on with 151 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:05.159 me, emily, and I talk a lot about this, like how we 152 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:09.720 can do great work, we can do work we're proud of, as Seth 153 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:11.279 God and saying, but also it can be like a tree that falls in 154 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:15.480 the forest and no one hears it right, like if it doesn't get picked 155 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:18.960 up by the algorithm or if it doesn't if we don't distribute it proper like 156 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.679 we can do all this great work and we can be really proud of something 157 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.360 that just didn't perform, and ultimately that makes us on successful marketers. So, 158 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:28.879 like when we talk about content marketing, we don't just mean content, 159 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.720 we mean content marketing, like you actually have to market that asset. You 160 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:33.519 have to get it into people's hands, like you were saying. People have 161 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:39.159 to see it and find value in it. It's not about US patting ourselves 162 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:41.159 in the back and saying, yeah, we did our best job. It's 163 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:45.159 about other people finding value. I think that can be really hard because we 164 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:48.879 we like we're sometimes stuck in this mode of like we're just creating stuff to 165 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:52.519 create stuff and we forget it's all about the value that it creates, not 166 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:54.840 having done it, not checking the box. HMM. Well, I'M gonna 167 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:58.000 start to wrap this thing up, but I gotta say I think if I'm 168 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:03.799 focused on anything right now, it's really deep, like I love when someone 169 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:09.799 writes a book or like a very well detailed content piece and then all the 170 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:11.559 stuff they can pull out of that like that, to me, is basically 171 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:16.600 the best strategy, if I'm looking across like what I admire the most and 172 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:18.960 what I feel like you can get the most out of. You went really 173 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:22.799 deep on a topic, you went really far in so you have this wealth 174 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:26.799 of knowledge and then you're able to pull out all these insights and you can 175 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.840 share those on Linkedin and you're not like, Oh, here's this one post 176 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.879 about this content piece I did, but it's like here's some of the content 177 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.919 from this larger piece I did, and the more we can do that, 178 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:39.840 I think you're valuing your audience because you're giving them some of your insights, 179 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:43.919 and you have so many insights because you did deep research, and that's a 180 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:48.919 really easy way to like carry your strategy for a long time because you can 181 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.960 talk on that topic over and over again from different vantage points. So it's 182 00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:56.559 something I'm I'm paying attention to because I think there's a lot of people doing 183 00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:00.919 it well and it fits really well today because as we were talking to an 184 00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:07.120 author who has gone very deep on the topic of marketing and PR and David 185 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:13.360 Meureman Scott, author of new rules of marketing and PR so let's dive into 186 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:18.639 this featured conversation. No, you'll enjoy it and we'll see you again tomorrow. 187 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:24.200 Welcome back to be to be growth. Today I am joined by David 188 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:30.919 Meerman Scott. He is marketing and business growth speaker as well, as many 189 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:33.240 of you will know, the author of new rules of marketing and PR as 190 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:37.720 well as the Wall Street Journal best seller fanocracy. David, pleasure having you 191 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:41.080 here on B tob growth with us. Hey, Benjie's super great to be 192 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:46.360 here. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. So the new 193 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:52.440 eighth addition of the new rules of marketing in PR it has gone live and 194 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:58.600 quite an achievement, and so congratulations there, sir. Thank you. I 195 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.200 mean it's a remarkable that it's the eighth edition. I mean I when I 196 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:07.240 was originally writing it, which was back in two thousand and five and two 197 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:09.919 thousand and six, I thought I was hitting on some interesting ideas, but 198 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:15.759 I never would have imagined that this book would become what it has become. 199 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:18.679 So, yeah, it's super exciting. Maybe we talked about that here in 200 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:22.320 a minute. Let me ask you this. What are some of the major 201 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.559 updates that led to this eighth edition? Some of the things you're really focused 202 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:30.759 on right now? I'm constantly doing a couple of things of my updates, 203 00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:33.960 and it's roughly every two years. The first thing I'm doing I read the 204 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.639 entire book again each time and I'm looking at every story that I tell. 205 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:43.879 The it's a very much a story driven book and I'm looking at every story 206 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:48.120 that I tell to make sure that's the best story to illustrate that particular point 207 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:52.919 and those that aren't go away, and then I'm looking for new stories that 208 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:58.000 make a ton of sense. So in this addition I think I've got about 209 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:01.639 twenty new stories. There's about fifty or sixty in total in the book. 210 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:09.720 I'm also looking for new tools or new ways to communicate that have either begun 211 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.120 or have taken off since the last edition. Example of this in the new 212 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:20.200 edition are social audio apps like clubhouse if, for example, which basically didn't 213 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:24.840 exist when I was writing the seventh edition a couple of years ago. So 214 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:31.000 I'm constantly looking for those new examples and new tools that I can write about 215 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:37.200 interesting. So you're collecting these stories and we'll talk about another couple maybe tools 216 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:41.919 as well in this conversation. But maybe highlight a story for us, one 217 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:46.559 that really steps out to you from this this addition, one of my favorite 218 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:50.879 stories is around news jacking. So newsjacking is a concept I invented more than 219 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:56.559 a decade ago and it's the idea that when you understand how a new story 220 00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:01.639 breaks and every new story always breaks in a typical bell shaped curve. The 221 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.759 news begins, it begins, it takes off in excitement among the media and 222 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:09.759 people and then at some point it peaks and drops off. Doesn't matter what 223 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:13.799 the new story is. That could be over the course of a few hours, 224 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:16.919 a few days or a few weeks, and the media is looking for 225 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:22.879 experts to be able to quote in the stories as they're breaking and if it's 226 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:26.000 a new kind of story, they don't know who is going to be the 227 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:30.879 right person to quote. So, for example, just two days ago, 228 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:37.080 as we're recording this, it became known that Elon Musk was successful in his 229 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:41.399 bid to acquire twitter. And I know a bit about twitter, I know 230 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:45.440 a bit about Algorithm. So I pushed out a blog post at that moment 231 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:50.879 and I end up getting an interview in tech crunch and I end I ended 232 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:56.279 up being mentioned in Seth Goden's blog, seth being the most popular blogger in 233 00:15:56.360 --> 00:16:00.080 the world. Yep, just because I was timely in that content in the 234 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.960 new rules of marketing and PR eighth addition, I have a great example of 235 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:11.240 news jacking success from a lawyer named Russell Alexander. And what rust does is 236 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:18.200 he focuses very much on family law, and so his expertise is he understands, 237 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:22.720 in Toronto, in Canada, everything there is to know about law, 238 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.519 and so what he did was he created the Covid nineteen and Family Law Information 239 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:33.519 Center, and then that was a great way to push his business out into 240 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:37.600 the market place. He was seen by hundreds and hundreds of people, some 241 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:41.960 of the WHO's, some of whom became clients, and many members of the 242 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:47.039 media. He had actually hire five new lawyers becoming because it became so popular. 243 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:52.279 So that's a story that everyone can relate to around your area of expertise. 244 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:57.720 Another quick story comes from my friend Shelly Palmer. Shelley is very much 245 00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:07.480 an expert in Bitcoin and other crypto currencies. So he wrote an instant book 246 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:14.960 and put it out on kindle's direct publishing platform, KTP, which allows anybody 247 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.880 to publish a book pretty much instantly. I mean two or three days your 248 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:22.240 book can be out, and it was right when crypto was taking off, 249 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:30.039 and that book ended up becoming super popular among all kinds of executives who needed 250 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:36.759 to understand how crypto worked, and he ended up then getting a bunch of 251 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:42.240 new clients and he charges five figures per month for his clients and generated a 252 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:47.839 great, great deal of new revenue for his business, very much a be 253 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:53.039 to be business, where he's targeting large organizations and educates them around crypto. 254 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:57.480 And it was because He created a book at the exact moment it became, 255 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:03.599 I think it still is, the most popular book on Amazon that explains Crypto. 256 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.240 So these are the ideas of newsjacking, but those are a couple of 257 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.319 cool examples that are in the new book. Okay, so let's talk about 258 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:14.440 newsjacking for a second. Specifically as it pertains to be to be companies, 259 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:18.640 there are some ways that we should be spotting trends, or you think that 260 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.799 be to be companies, in specifically marketing teams, can take advantage of this 261 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.880 idea of News Jack and if we just have the eyes to see it hundred 262 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:30.920 percent, it's fabulous for be to be companies. So I always recommend people 263 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:37.519 take a look using their mobile device or their computer at Google news or an 264 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:41.880 equivalent kind of news source, as well as looking at twitter to find out 265 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.319 what trending, what hashtags are trending, what stories are trending, and I 266 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:52.880 recommend removing all personalization, because what you're looking for is stories that break that 267 00:18:52.960 --> 00:19:00.000 you never saw coming, because that's when a story will be like, oh 268 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:03.599 my gosh, I never saw coming that you on musk was going to potentially 269 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:08.519 buy twitter. Once he does, the media is looking for expertise. I 270 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:15.200 became that expertise. So in a BETB company you've got expertise. You've got 271 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:19.359 expertise around the technology that you provide, you've got expertise around the markets you 272 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:25.119 serve, and if there's an acquisition in your industry, for example, or 273 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:30.279 if there's a new regulatory change in your industry, for example, or if 274 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:36.759 there's some kind of something happening around big picture news, for example, you 275 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:41.480 then have an expertise that the market is looking for, and that is when 276 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:45.440 you should create real time content. That can be a blog post. That's 277 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.480 how I've done it. You could write a real quicki book. That's how 278 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:53.319 Shelley Palmer dot did it. You could create a tweet or another social media 279 00:19:53.400 --> 00:20:00.559 post using an appropriate Hashtag, and that's actually how I ended up getting the 280 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:06.599 tech crunch in curry, because the reporter was following the Hashtags, and that 281 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:10.599 is how, then you can end up number one, getting interest in the 282 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:15.119 media around your expertise, but you also might end up making sales as a 283 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:19.200 result, because you're seen as the expert, people seek you out and then 284 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.240 they might be interested in doing business with you. Okay, so this is 285 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:26.599 just an observation and you push back if I am observing incorrectly. But with 286 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:32.319 the ideas that you just provided for newsjacking, it sounds like you would keep 287 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:34.920 this in some sort of written form or very visual form, but maybe not 288 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:41.000 something like a podcast, if it would have to be like that, alongside 289 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.799 a blog post, that alongside something that's written, because there's something about, 290 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.240 at least in my mind, the podcast medium, where it's too real time, 291 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:52.720 where like I could just record on my phone and then push it and 292 00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:55.519 someone have to go listen to it to make me the expert, whereas they 293 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.079 could review written form. Is that right? Am I on the right track 294 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:02.880 there? I would look at it slightly differently. Okay, when there's something 295 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:07.039 that breaks in the news that you never saw coming, you want to try 296 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:11.440 to reach people for whom they don't know who you are yet, if they 297 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:15.480 don't know you're the expert yet, and you need to reach them in a 298 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:21.000 way that they're going to find you. So the nature of a podcast in 299 00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:26.039 particular, which was part of the question you asked, is that generally you 300 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:27.880 have your followers, and you know you have. You have tons of people 301 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:33.759 who follow this podcast, which is great, but unless one of them happens 302 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:38.480 to be a reporter, they probably won't listen to this episode in a timely 303 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:44.720 manner. So you can still get your ideas out into in the form of 304 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:48.480 a podcast or the form of a youtube video or the form of another piece 305 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:53.799 of non written content. That's totally fine. You just need to make sure 306 00:21:55.119 --> 00:22:00.319 that in some way you're showing that content to people in a way they can 307 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:04.839 find it. So you could do your podcast, great, but then send 308 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:11.000 through twitter or send through Linkedin or send through other ways, using appropriate hashtags, 309 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:15.880 using appropriate keywords that you push out, Hey, I've just done this 310 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:21.599 podcast. We just talked about, for example, Elon Musk buying twitter, 311 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:23.839 we talked about the importance of the Algorithm or whatever it is that you've just 312 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:29.519 done, and then make sure people can see it on twitter, bounce back 313 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:33.599 to then us into your podcast. So the form of the content can be 314 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:37.440 something other than written, but you do need to make sure it gets into 315 00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:41.960 the search engine so it's able to be found. Love it and it's so 316 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:48.359 interesting to think from first addition to now. I mean that's what fifteen years 317 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:53.960 when we fifteen here? Fifteen years since the first edition published, but nearly 318 00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:57.799 twenty since I started writing these ideas. Yeah, at that point twitter doesn't 319 00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:04.079 exist, so the he and facebook is definitely not widely accepted. Might just 320 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:07.880 be for students. So it was only for students at that point when I 321 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:12.480 was first writing. Exactly. Okay, so you're highlighting something that has is 322 00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:17.240 available now, this idea of news jacking. I wonder from that go all 323 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:21.799 the way back with me, David. First addition, what has had staying 324 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:25.400 power? Something that you wrote about then that you're going, okay, this 325 00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:33.400 is a not so new rule anymore and it's still extremely applicable today. So 326 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:38.720 every edition from the very beginning, what has not changed is the strategy. 327 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:44.880 It's good. The strategy is when you think about the new rules of marketing 328 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:47.720 and PR well, what are the old rules? The old rules of marketing 329 00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:51.880 and PR prior to the Web, were there are three ways to get noticed. 330 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:55.720 You could spend a lot of money on advertising, you could advertise and 331 00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:59.440 magazines, newspapers, television, radio for be to be. For example, 332 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.680 you could advertised by booking space on the trade show for and I'm not saying 333 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:10.039 that's wrong, but that's the only way you could get your word out there. 334 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.720 or You could convince the media to write about you some way, and 335 00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:17.559 many be to be companies spend tens of thousands of dollars per month on a 336 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:21.920 PR agency. or You could have a massive sales team to go and knock 337 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:26.039 on doors to or pick up the phone and cold call to try to sell 338 00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:30.640 your be to be products. Those are still true and I would ask how 339 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:33.960 is that working for you? If you're using those techniques right, if you're 340 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:40.640 spending money to advertise in the trade publication for your your industry, be to 341 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:44.200 be companies of traditionally done, or you're spending a whole lot of money to 342 00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:48.960 to have your company exhibit on Trade Show for if it's working, that's awesome, 343 00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.359 but for many companies it's not working so well. So those are the 344 00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:56.160 old rules. The new rules are that you can using the tools of the 345 00:24:56.200 --> 00:25:02.640 web, social media, your own website, email, newsletters, blogs, 346 00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:07.000 like we're doing right now, a podcast. You can do these things and 347 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:12.079 reach your buyers directly and for free. Yes, it takes time, but 348 00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:17.359 it doesn't cost anything, and that's the new rules, and that has not 349 00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:22.839 changed in any way over the past nearly twenty years, fifteen years since the 350 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:30.200 first edition was published. It's so interesting because that hasn't changed yet in some 351 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:34.319 ways it's been so sped up and it's gotten more and more noisy. There's 352 00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:40.119 a lot of content pollution. There's a lot of voices now, even in 353 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:44.319 a BETB space that can tend to be behind be TOC marketers. We're seeing 354 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.519 this trend of content and just for the sake of content, just for the 355 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.880 sake of rinking, just for the sake of being and having a presence on 356 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:56.960 social how does that change your mindset as how we have to come to the 357 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:02.599 table with the type of content we're creating and maybe that shifts our mindset slightly 358 00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:07.160 differently in the as we produce the work we do. I think were the 359 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:11.559 most important thing around mindsetence. I love the way you frame the question. 360 00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:15.960 Is that the vast majority of be to be companies, and I've worked in 361 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:19.079 be tob M. I spent fifteen years doing be to be marketing and sales. 362 00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:26.519 I worked for financial information technology businesses like Thompson Reuters and Dowd Jones, 363 00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:30.119 and we sold to banks and securities companies and government agencies. So I get 364 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:34.519 it. I've been there myself fifteen years, and what be to be companies 365 00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:38.119 have traditionally done and what they still do, and I see it every single 366 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:44.000 day, is they focus on their products and services. And Yeah, they're 367 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:48.519 creating content, but it's all about their products and services. I think what 368 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:55.000 we need to do is completely shift our mindset and think about it instead of 369 00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:59.880 what are the problems that are buyers face? How can we understand them? 370 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.720 Them in the form of what I call buy our personas, and there's ALD 371 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:08.799 chapter on buy our personas, the idea that if you understand very deeply the 372 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:15.400 problems and the challenges that every buyer has, you can then create the kind 373 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:19.200 of content that will help them to solve their problems, to educate and inform 374 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:26.680 them, and then from there, as they become educated, they become your 375 00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.200 fan. And then once they become your fan, when they need a practice 376 00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:34.240 service like that, they know who to contact. I'll give you an example 377 00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:38.440 of a company I've worked with since the very beginning of this book. In 378 00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:45.039 two thousand and seven I joined the hub spot advisory board and I've been on 379 00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:48.440 the hub spot advisory board since the very beginning, advising. Initially, it 380 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.559 would there are eight people in the company when I joined, advising the CO 381 00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:56.200 founders, Brian Halligaan Dur mess shot directly, and now they're I don't know, 382 00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:00.559 four thousand employees, something like that still working with them. And we 383 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:06.519 focused on just that. We focused on understanding our buyers. We did buy 384 00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:11.200 our persona research developed content for buy our personas going back fifteen years ago. 385 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:17.039 Yeah, created a great website, created a blog, created a youtube channel, 386 00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:22.039 podcast and now they've got multiples of these channels. They have millions and 387 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:26.640 millions of fans at hub spot and many of them don't buy anything. The 388 00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:32.119 vast majority of them actually don't buy anything, but they become fans of the 389 00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:36.839 content that hub spot delivers, which is all free. And then from there 390 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:41.319 some of them say, Oh, I need a crm system, I need 391 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.559 a marketing automation software system, I need a platform like hub spot delivers. 392 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:49.839 I trust them. They have helped me over the years. That's the company 393 00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:53.039 I want to do business with. And they've been doing great. They're growing 394 00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:57.680 every single quarter and they went public in two thousand and fourteen and it's been 395 00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:02.680 fabulous to see. Yeah, no arguing there. They have done fantastic for 396 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:06.640 themselves and it's fun to watch as they've branched out into podcasting specifically and having 397 00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:10.799 a hub spot network of shows. It's an interesting play that I've been paying 398 00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:15.359 attention to it it is and there they're, my poster child over the entire 399 00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:21.680 length of the book of a company that's adopted these I and I'm not taking 400 00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:25.119 the credit they did the work, but that have adopted all of the ideas 401 00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:30.839 in the new rules of marketing p are to become a fabulous example of a 402 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.200 tremendous success in the B Tob World. One thing we should mention is since 403 00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:41.400 the seventh addition, something that's major that's transpired has been this covid pandemic, 404 00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:45.559 and yes, that has brought on a lot of transitions or sped up some 405 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:51.759 things. Right. What do you think, because of Covid specifically, have 406 00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:56.000 been those largest effects in the things that were now seeing, as specifically as 407 00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.720 it pertains to marketing and PR so the main thing I've seen, and it's 408 00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:07.519 so interesting to me and so important, I think, is that virtual events 409 00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:12.759 and the use of video, like we're doing right now. Yep, has 410 00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:19.480 sped up during covid because we couldn't meet people facetoface, we couldn't have the 411 00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:25.079 trade show, we couldn't have the meetings with clients. So video has become 412 00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:29.599 super important. I mean just me and this. I'm doing this presentation from 413 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:33.720 my home studio where I've got a bunch of different cameras that I was going 414 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:34.440 to show you and I didn't turn it on. I've got a bunch of 415 00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:40.759 different cameras set up and it's great. It's a great way to communicate and 416 00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:47.759 so, interestingly, I did a bunch of research about the neuroscience about why 417 00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:53.920 this is true, the neuroscience behind video as a way of communicating. So 418 00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:59.200 there's actually two forms of neuroscience. The first form of neuroscience is the idea 419 00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:07.240 of proximity. It turns out when we humans get to know other human beings, 420 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:11.240 that's how we become fans, because all humans want to be part of 421 00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:15.079 a tribe of likeminded people. So, going back to hub spot, they've 422 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:21.680 built a tribe of likeminded people and they can get twenty four pre pandemic twenty 423 00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:27.720 fivezero people in person to their inbound event every year in Boston, and I've 424 00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:33.400 presented at that conference every single year since it started. And people are like 425 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:37.240 minded. They're there because they want to be together with people who are just 426 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:41.799 like them, the same reason that I'm a huge fan of the grateful dead 427 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:44.880 and go I've been to eighty five grateful dead concerts. I go to grateful 428 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.960 dead concerts. I I'm with my friends. When I'm Surfing, I'm surfing 429 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:52.720 with my friends, my tribe of like minded people. And so it turns 430 00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:59.240 out one neuroscientist named Edward t hall identified the different levels of proximity. Further 431 00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:04.680 than twelve feet is called public space. We know people in our public space. 432 00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:07.920 We don't actively track them, we know they're there. You know, 433 00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:09.720 if you're walking down the street you see with someone approaching, you know they're 434 00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:15.039 there. Once they get inside of twelve feet, between twelve feet and four 435 00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:19.759 feet, that's called social space and we begin to track those people. If 436 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.720 you walk into a room, let's say you walk into a cocktail party, 437 00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:28.200 your immediately looking around for people who are within twelve feet of you, who 438 00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:31.279 you might know, or you're also looking for enemies. That goes back tens 439 00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:36.200 of thousands of years. It's it's in our brain. It's hardwired. We 440 00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:38.960 want to know. Is Our tribe here, because that's when we're safe and 441 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:44.839 comfortable, or are these people, people we don't know and there's potentially danger? 442 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:49.200 We can't help but feel that way. Inside of four feet is where 443 00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:53.839 the most powerful human connections happen, positive or negative, and that's called personal 444 00:32:53.920 --> 00:33:01.440 space. So the second idea around neurosciences the idea of mirror neurons. Mirror 445 00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:07.079 neurons are the part of our brains that fire when we see somebody doing something 446 00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:09.559 as if we're doing it our self, which I'll demonstrate for you now. 447 00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:16.160 I brought a leman and I have a slice of lemon here, and so 448 00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:21.599 if I were to take a bite of this lemon, my brain will fire. 449 00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:25.839 But what's interesting is, because of mirror neurons, your brain will fire 450 00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:30.200 two so, even if you're listening and not watching this, you can imagine 451 00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:34.160 what I'm doing now. I'm holding a lemon in one my left hand. 452 00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:37.039 I'm only a slice of lemon in my right hand. I'm now going to 453 00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:42.240 take a bite of the slice of lemon and it's wow, it's super powerful. 454 00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.240 It makes my eyes close. My eyes are actually watering a little bit. 455 00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:47.400 My mouth puckers up. I can feel it on my tongue and on 456 00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:52.400 my lips. My brain is firing like crazy because I taken a bite of 457 00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:55.720 this lemon. Bengie, your brain is firing. Tell me right, that's 458 00:33:55.759 --> 00:34:00.720 exactly right. I feel it in the back of my jaw. You're tasting 459 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:05.079 that lemon. How interesting is that? That's mirror neurons. Yeah, holding 460 00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:14.599 those two concepts together, the power of being physically close to somebody, together 461 00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:21.719 with the power of mirror neurons, means that when you see somebody on video 462 00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:25.719 and you have a conversation, your brain and my brain are firing as if 463 00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:30.960 we're in the same room having this conversation, perhaps over a glass of wine 464 00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:37.360 or perhaps over a coffee. And that's a very, very powerful thing and 465 00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:40.159 it is exactly the reason why why you feel you know a movie or a 466 00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:45.440 television star, even though intellectually you know you've never met them. You and 467 00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:50.119 I right now intellectually know we're not in the same room. I'm in outside 468 00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:53.000 of Boston, and and so you know you could be watching this, you 469 00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:57.440 could be in Australia, you know, miles and miles and miles away, 470 00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:00.960 but you can still feel your brain as if we're in the same room together, 471 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:07.000 which is exactly why virtual events have become so interesting to me and it's 472 00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:12.920 also exactly why video has taken off during the pandemic. You asked me a 473 00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:16.880 really simple question about what the covid pandemic has done for the new rules of 474 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:22.159 marketing in PR and I had to jump into the narrow science behind this because 475 00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:25.239 to me it's fascinating. It's all around the power of video, which is 476 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:30.280 not going away. Yes, we're going to begin doing in person conferences. 477 00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:34.079 I'm booked for one and next week, I think. And yes, in 478 00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:38.320 person sales meetings from be tob companies, in person customer meetings with be to 479 00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:43.800 be companies are definitely going to begin taking off the ladder half of twenty two 480 00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:47.159 and into two thousand and twenty three. But video is here to stay. 481 00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:52.880 Hey, be to be growth listeners, we want to hear from you. 482 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:55.480 In fact, we will pay you for it. Just head over to B 483 00:35:55.599 --> 00:36:01.079 TOB growth podcom and complete a short survey about the show to enter for a 484 00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:06.280 chance to win two hundred and fifty dollars. Plus the first fifty participants will 485 00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:09.440 receive twenty five dollars as our way of saying thank you so much one more 486 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:15.920 time. That's be tob growth podcom, letter B, number two letter be 487 00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:22.159 growth podcom. One entry per person must be an active listener of the show 488 00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:29.639 to enter and look forward to hearing from you. Yes, we're going to 489 00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:32.480 begin doing in person conferences. I'm booked for one and next week, I 490 00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:37.320 think. And yes, in person sales meetings from be tob companies, in 491 00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:43.559 person customer meetings with be to be companies are definitely going to begin taking off 492 00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:46.440 the ladder half of twenty two and into two thousand and twenty three. But 493 00:36:46.840 --> 00:36:51.079 video is here to stay. I think this fascinating road that you just took 494 00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:54.519 us down. Let me play student for a second here and ask, because 495 00:36:55.320 --> 00:37:01.920 where I go is this space of while I feel connected to you right now, 496 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:06.280 David, and you can use the lemon example and we can go okay, 497 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:12.280 you sense this. There's the the marketing side or the public side. 498 00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:15.679 That's great. You can connect people all over the world, but I think 499 00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:20.920 this at the same time we're navigating a conversation right now internally, within work 500 00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:24.480 and within job jobs, where we're going. Okay, we all feel somewhat 501 00:37:24.519 --> 00:37:30.519 disconnected, even though we're on these video calls, even though we've figure it 502 00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:35.519 out ways to use zoom more efficiently or try to have a culture for our 503 00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:37.840 institutions. You know, while we're all working from home and can hear our 504 00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:42.760 dogs and babies in the background, we can we close our laptops. That 505 00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:46.920 sense of disconnection is also something many are navigating. How do you see those 506 00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:52.280 two both Yay, we can be connected from anywhere and Nay, we can 507 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:57.760 be connected from anywhere but not so connected. How do you see those playing 508 00:37:57.800 --> 00:38:01.920 together or where do you see that going as you think of how we navigate 509 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:07.800 that? Well, I think that it's not necessarily an either or kind of 510 00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:12.679 thing and I think that getting back to the things that we all loved to 511 00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:20.719 do pre pandemic, going to the conference, meeting with customers over dinner or 512 00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:24.599 any of those sorts of activities, or having a meeting in your office with 513 00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:30.280 your colleagues in the company that you work for. I don't believe that those 514 00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:37.400 should go away because we can use video for some of those activities. I 515 00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:42.440 think the hybrid world, or a world where both of them coexist is the 516 00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.000 best way for a be to be company to be thinking about this. You 517 00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:50.960 know what that means for work. Might be in the office, three days 518 00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:54.000 off, two days or something like that. Or in the case of people 519 00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:58.679 who live remotely, you got to you got to come to headquarters a couple 520 00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:01.559 weeks out of the year. What it means for selling is sure, you 521 00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:07.039 can do some selling over zoom, but getting to meet that customer, just 522 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:12.280 like the old days, facetoface over a meal, absolutely important. Getting your 523 00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:19.159 customers together for a customer conference once a year critically important. Physically together critically 524 00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:24.760 important. Going to the conference and being seen and interacting with existing and potential 525 00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:29.320 customers. That's not going away. That's also going to be very important. 526 00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:35.960 So I think it's a matter of using video effectively at the same time that 527 00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:39.599 we get back to the things that have worked traditionally for for dozens and dozens 528 00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:43.840 of years with be to be companies. Yep, and along those lines. 529 00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:47.400 Then for you you're going with virtual events and I would agree. I don't 530 00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:51.719 see that going away at all. You're going to have physical events come back, 531 00:39:51.800 --> 00:39:54.559 but almost all those events are going to have some sort of online video 532 00:39:54.599 --> 00:40:00.760 format that goes right alongside where people are joining from everywhere and anywhere. I 533 00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:05.920 think that's probably true and I think that's what's important to be consider if that's 534 00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:09.119 a thing that you're you're going to be doing with your be to be company 535 00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:17.280 for everyone who's listening in is don't just have video cameras record the inperson component 536 00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:22.360 of the speech, of the presentations. Make it a true hybrid. A 537 00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:28.840 true hybrid take the best of of the virtual environment together with the best of 538 00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:30.599 the in person and arm and I'll give you an example of what I mean 539 00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:37.400 by that. You can have a keynote speech, for example, where there 540 00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:44.280 somebody delivering a keynote that can be filmed and broadcast, and then you could 541 00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:51.599 have the inperson audience do a q and a with the speaker while the virtual 542 00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:58.440 audience takes a break. Then the speaker runs to a room when the inperson 543 00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:06.920 audience takes their coffee break and then the speaker does a virtual Qa with on 544 00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:12.320 video with the virtual audience where the virtual audience can ask questions. That's a 545 00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:16.559 true hybrid experience and that's where I think we need to go, and not 546 00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:21.119 very many companies or testing that yet, but that's the direction I think we 547 00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:27.360 need to go to leverage the best of both worlds. Simply recording your in 548 00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:30.400 person stuff and broadcasting it is not going to work so well, in my 549 00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:35.599 opinion. Well, I want to discuss one other thing that I know you 550 00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:39.440 and I are both particularly interested in and we're monitoring, and it's a piece 551 00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:43.480 of this book that's new that you really spend some time on, which is 552 00:41:43.559 --> 00:41:50.599 around ai and how AI is influencing marketing. So let's dive in there. 553 00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:58.440 How have you seen ai tools really take a leap and start helping marketers and 554 00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:04.559 coming alongside us? Huge Ai over the last two editions of the new rules 555 00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:08.079 and marketing and PR so roughly the last five years, has really really taken 556 00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:13.800 off. So there's some ai tools that happen kind of behind the scenes that 557 00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:17.079 we don't even know about, like if you're using any of the social networking 558 00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:22.840 companies, advertising platforms Linkedin, facebook and so on, there's AI components in 559 00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:25.760 there to understand who to show the ads too and you don't even see that. 560 00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:30.239 You don't push any buttons to make that happen. If you're using, 561 00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:35.440 for example, tools like hub spot. There's tools within those kinds of systems 562 00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:39.119 that help you to create the best headline for a blog post, for example, 563 00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:42.920 things like that. You don't even know that's going on behind the scenes 564 00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:46.199 when you're using those tools sometimes. And then there's the tools that you can 565 00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:52.519 actually buy, like, for example, I'm a fan of a transcription service 566 00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:58.800 called Otter Ai, and so I take the recordings of speeches, I take 567 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:02.639 the recordings of interviews I've done, drop them in and their ai engine then 568 00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:08.039 creates a transcript. Many podcasters use that. That those tools as well. 569 00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:13.280 That helps me a ton when I'm doing an interview and then creating a blog 570 00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.679 post or a story in the book around that, because I don't have to 571 00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:22.199 transcribe by hand. And I'm a huge fan of a company called lately, 572 00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:28.760 and lately is an AI engine for creating short form content from long form content. 573 00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:31.440 So, for example, what you can do is you can drop in 574 00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:36.360 an entire blog post or a chapter of a book, and that's a text 575 00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:40.880 based piece of content or a video or a podcast, and then when the 576 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:50.719 lately ai engine does is it then puts it into social media ready chunks. 577 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:54.400 So that, for example, one blog post that I write a blog on 578 00:43:54.639 --> 00:44:01.280 at least once a week. A blog post will then be generating fifteen or 579 00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:07.679 even twenty tweets and it takes just seconds to do that. Now I'll go 580 00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:12.320 in and I'll edit the make sure they're okay. So roughly ten minutes total 581 00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:15.840 to generate fifteen or twenty amazing tweets. Then I can schedule them one per 582 00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:20.679 day or two per week or when every two weeks, or whatever schedule I 583 00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:24.639 want. And this is transformed the way I use twitter because it's allowed me 584 00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:30.239 to create really easily a whole bunch of short form, in this case tweets, 585 00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:35.679 or they could also be linked in posts or instagram posts from one blog 586 00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:38.159 post, where I used to just take the headline of the blog post, 587 00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:42.920 put in the URL, push that out and that was the extent of me 588 00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:47.039 showing my twitter followers that I've got a new blog post. Now I'm putting 589 00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:52.320 out tweets and other customers of lately are putting out tweets on a regular basis. 590 00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:55.519 or I'll take a onehour video, drop it in and I'll get ten 591 00:44:55.599 --> 00:45:00.400 or fifteen or twenty, thirty or forty five se in clips that I can 592 00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:06.760 use on social media. That's all AI driven. Super, super powerful example 593 00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:10.920 of how ai can be used for be to be companies, because these tools 594 00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:16.159 make our jobs easier and it's not going to take away the jobs of marketers. 595 00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:20.559 It's going to make us more efficient. It's going to allow us to 596 00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:22.320 do a heck of a lot more than we're able to do today if we're 597 00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:27.159 doing all those things manually. I like that optimism. And we know we're 598 00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:31.440 not in just a content creation space anymore. We're in a need for distribution 599 00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:36.280 space, and so it will, like lately, is helpful and coming alongside 600 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.400 there. We're okay, I've created this piece of content, I've poured my 601 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:45.119 effort in my work into it. Let's make sure this is properly distributed and 602 00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:49.159 put before people. So as a great example. Are there any negatives, 603 00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:52.480 as you see what's happening with algorithms and AI, that really stand out to 604 00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:59.079 you, David? Unfortunately, yes, I I'm a very, very pessimistic 605 00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:05.559 about the polarizing nature of social media algorithms, especially facebook. There's dangers with 606 00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:07.480 all the algorithms, but facebook, I believe, is by far the most 607 00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:15.039 dangerous, because facebook is tuned to get you to stay as long as possible 608 00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:22.440 on the facebook network and they've figured out that anger gets you to stay on 609 00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:30.320 the network longer and therefore it's tuned to show you things that are likely to 610 00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:36.559 make you angry and it drives polarization here in this country. It's the red 611 00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:42.679 team against the blue team. It creates things like people fighting over whether back 612 00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:46.800 scenes are safe and effective or not. It drives things like the events of 613 00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:52.480 January sixth, and these things are really, really dangerous. And so I 614 00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:58.000 believe actually the facebook algorithm is one of the most destructive technologies ever invented. 615 00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:00.480 I really do. I think it's that bad. There's two billion people on 616 00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:06.079 facebook around the world using it on a very regular basis, and that many 617 00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:09.760 of those people become susceptible to conspiracy theories and they don't even know it because 618 00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:14.320 of the way the algorithm works. If all of the people you interact with 619 00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:19.679 on facebook are talking about a particular conspiracy theory, you naturally think that everyone 620 00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:22.039 believe, everyone knows this is true. I've seen it on facebook Wateryson. 621 00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:28.320 So yeah, and and I believe this is a very, very, very 622 00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:31.480 destructive for all of humanity. And you know, I don't know what we 623 00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:36.320 can do about it. FACEBOOK is a private company. They can essentially do 624 00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:40.320 what they want. All of the social networks have been. When they're brought 625 00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:45.519 in front of Congress here in this country or or when they're talking about how 626 00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:52.719 their systems work, they all go back to the idea of free speech and 627 00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:58.400 the ability to say whatever people want and the fact that they have ways to 628 00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:02.519 remove content. That's not true. Okay, that's fine, but that's not 629 00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:09.360 the problem. They're focusing everyone's attention to on to something that's not the problem. 630 00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:15.480 The fundamental problem isn't that a few people are talking about conspiracy theories. 631 00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:23.480 The fundamental problem is that the social media technology is spreading that like wildfire. 632 00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:27.639 And but they don't want that to be the debate. They want the debate 633 00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:31.679 to be we're dealing with the problem of conspiracy theories, even though they're not 634 00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:35.639 really doing a great job at that either. They want that to be the 635 00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.079 debate. They don't want the debate to be around the algorithm and the technology. 636 00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:43.719 So I think that's a challenge and don't know how we can solve it. 637 00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:46.719 But I believe that's a huge challenge. The pace at which misinformation spreads 638 00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:52.760 to is so much faster, and so it's this thing that, while there's 639 00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:58.719 so much great connection that can happen online, the the speed at which we 640 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:02.559 can spread misinformation without knowing it is we have to get that under control and 641 00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:07.239 it'll be interesting to see how we go about that. I find it interesting, 642 00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:08.760 and we mentioned this right off the top, so maybe this is coming 643 00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:14.159 full circle, but with Elon Musk has purchase of twitter, one of the 644 00:49:14.199 --> 00:49:17.840 things he has been talking about is this idea of being able to really tell 645 00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:22.239 what's a human what's about, and I think that's going to be a fascinating 646 00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:28.559 conversation moving forward as well. As Ai is more involved in our lives, 647 00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:32.559 how we interact on in line can be dictated without knowing it. We're interacting 648 00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:37.519 with bots and we're interacting with all sorts of misinformation. So if we can 649 00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:39.159 get that under control, not saying musk will do it, but I think 650 00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:45.360 that's a question that we're all asking. I'm very optimistic that if he can 651 00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:47.599 solve that problem on twitter that that would be a big step. I mean 652 00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:52.199 there's a moody stand millions of fake, fake accounts on twitter. There's millions 653 00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:54.960 of millions of robot based accounts on twitter and one of the things he's been 654 00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:00.199 talking about is that every twitter account's going to be need to be verified as 655 00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:02.000 being a human. Yeah, if he can pull it off, I'm all 656 00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:05.920 for it. I think that would be go a long, long long way 657 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:08.800 to solving the problem of some of the negative aspects of twitter. So I'm 658 00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:14.039 rooting for him to be successful around that. You and me both well, 659 00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:19.280 David. It has been such an honor to have you here on Bob Growth 660 00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:23.480 with us, and congratulations again on this eighth addition. For people that want 661 00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:27.360 to stay connected to you, tell us what's the best way to do that. 662 00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:30.679 We've mentioned twitter a number of times, but where sh your people connect? 663 00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:36.079 So I'm DM Scott, DMSCOTT on twitter, same hand, on instagram. 664 00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:38.119 You can easily find me on the other social networks and you can usually 665 00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:42.960 easily find me on google. One of this the chapters in the new roles 666 00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:46.400 of marketing mprs about search engine optimization and I always tell people when you're thinking 667 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:51.719 of a new company name, product name, book name, always, always, 668 00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:54.000 always, check the search engines to make sure if you can own that 669 00:50:54.039 --> 00:50:58.400 book title, which I've written twelve books. In every case we've done that 670 00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:05.599 and my name is David Merman Scott. Merriman is my middle name. More 671 00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:09.119 than twenty years ago I started to use my middle name professionally because I'm the 672 00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:16.199 only David Merman Scott and in the entire world nice, that's good boat load 673 00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:20.639 of David Scott. So there's a David Scott who walked on the moon and 674 00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:23.440 with a Paula fifteen. There's a David Scott who's an iron man triathlon champion, 675 00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:28.559 there's a David Scott who's a member of Congress from the state of Georgia. 676 00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:32.400 I couldn't compete as David Scott, but as David Merman Scott I'm the 677 00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:36.800 only one on the planet. So you have the simple question how can people 678 00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:40.239 reach me? But it's actually a new rule. that new rule is always 679 00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:45.519 make sure you test any name that you're going to use. In fact, 680 00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:51.039 a little personal note here, Ben g, if I may. My daughter 681 00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:58.400 and her husband had my first grandchild four days ago and I'm so wonderful. 682 00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:04.760 Thank you. Her name is Sarah Moon Gooley Scott and in any way that 683 00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:07.840 you look at it, just take her first name, Sora. Sora in 684 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:10.960 her last name, Gooley Scott, which is the last name, my last 685 00:52:12.039 --> 00:52:15.239 name, Scott, my son in law's last name Goolay. They put it 686 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:19.440 together when they got married. She's the only Sarah Gooley Scott in the entire 687 00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:23.119 world. So I don't know that she did it because of me. I 688 00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:28.159 don't think she did, but hey, brand new child born in the world, 689 00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:34.159 unique on the web. Go by the URL now already done well. 690 00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:37.920 It's been great to have you here with us today, David. Thank you 691 00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:40.960 so much for spending time and stop and buy and now we know this conversation 692 00:52:42.039 --> 00:52:44.960 is going to help fuel growth and innovation for so many of our B to 693 00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:47.559 be marketers that are listening. My pleasure, Benji. Really appreciate you having 694 00:52:47.599 --> 00:52:52.239 me on for our listeners. If you have yet to follow the show, 695 00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:55.000 we would encourage you to do that on whatever podcast platform you listen to this 696 00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:59.199 on. Connect with me on Linkedin. Just search Benji block over there. 697 00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:01.159 Would love to chat with you about marketing, about business, about life. 698 00:53:01.239 --> 00:53:16.760 Keep doing work that matters. Will be back real soon with another episode. 699 00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:20.880 Be Tob growth is brought to you by the team at sweet fish media. 700 00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:23.679 Here at sweet fish we produce podcast for some of the most innovative brands in 701 00:53:23.719 --> 00:53:29.280 the world, and we help them turn those podcasts into Microvideos linkedin content, 702 00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:32.480 blog posts and more. We're on a mission to produce every leader's favorite show. 703 00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:37.119 Want more information, visit sweet PHISH MEDIACOM