May 23, 2022

The New Rules of Marketing and PR, with David Meerman Scott

In this episode, Benji talks to David Meerman Scott, marketing and business growth speaker, as well as the author of NEW RULES OF MARKETING & PR and WSJ bestseller FANOCRACY.

Our theme today is what has changed and what has stayed the same. The first edition was published back in 2007 so we have 15 years now to look back on, including the evolution of social media and the rise of A.I.

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:16.800 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth, coming 2 00:00:16.839 --> 00:00:20.039 to you from just outside Austin, Texas. I'm your host, Benjie Block, 3 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:23.359 and with me today I have rex and emily. Rex are is our 4 00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:27.960 VP of revenue at sweet fish, emily our creative content lead. And you 5 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:30.879 guys are like, where's Dan? Well, he actually just had a baby, 6 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:35.280 so shout out to Dan and his family. Congratulations there and we are 7 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:39.479 so glad that he gets to spend some time away and with the new the 8 00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:43.000 new baby and with his wife. So all right, here's what's up for 9 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:47.439 today. In about ten minutes we will share a featured conversation, a chat 10 00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:51.560 that I had with David Merriman Scott. He's the author of the new rules 11 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:56.119 of marketing and PR fascinating conversation. Just came out with his eighth addition, 12 00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:00.479 and so we have a lot to dive into there. But like we do 13 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:03.679 Monday's, Wednesdays and Fridays, we're here for about a ten minute conversation, 14 00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:07.439 something that the three of us are seeing around marketing, something that kind of 15 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:11.760 got our interest levels up. And today, Emily, it's your turn, 16 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:12.799 so I turn it over to you. What are you paying attention to in 17 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:19.239 marketing right now? Yeah, so today I'm bringing a blog from Seth Goden 18 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:22.120 and I'll just read a short part of it. He says marketing is the 19 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:25.959 work of helping people get what they've wanted all along. It's about establishing the 20 00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:29.799 conditions for a small group of people to eagerly spread the word and build connection. 21 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:32.439 And then this line, I think is pretty key and what I want 22 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:36.799 to talk about. He says taking attention versus storytelling and service. Sometimes it 23 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:40.760 feels like the short cuts and deep personalization and scale are the only option. 24 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:44.319 Then a great marketing project comes along and we're reminded that in fact we can 25 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:49.560 do work we're proud of. So the main topic here is the Hustle of 26 00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:55.000 marketing if you're just trying to take attention or if you're being thoughtful with storytelling. 27 00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:57.480 And this is a conversation we have a lot at sweet fish and it 28 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:04.599 reminded me of thinking through brand awareness or brand affinity, thinking through a lot 29 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:08.120 of people ask how often they should be posting and there's a difference of opinion 30 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:13.960 there whether it should be put out as much content as you can or hold 31 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:16.520 the reins a little bit and be thoughtful about it. So we're on this 32 00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:21.120 journey to learn how to tell better stories, how to train our host and 33 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:25.000 telling better stories instead of just putting out more content and trying to take attention. 34 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:28.919 And this is something I see on is working on social every day is 35 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:30.520 there's a lot of times where I have these ideas and like Oh, I 36 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:34.319 should, I should put this out there, and then I have to think, 37 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:38.280 but is it beneficial it? Does it actually help people? So, 38 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:40.599 yeah, what do you guys think about this idea of putting out a ton 39 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:46.479 of content just for the sake of attention versus storytelling that line. Sometimes it 40 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:51.639 feels like the short cuts and deep personalization and scale are the only option and 41 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:54.080 then a great marketing project comes along and we're reminded that in fact, we 42 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:57.319 can do work we're proud of. I'm like, Oh, like, let's 43 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:01.240 read that like five times for people. But you need that shot in the 44 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:05.560 arm right because I don't think we live there, because it's our job. 45 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.120 So you're never going to just only operate from that space. You're always going 46 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:13.800 to have that push and pull. So I appreciate his sentiment and it's almost 47 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:15.199 like you want a leader that's going to nudge you back in that direction, 48 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:19.639 and we want to be those people as well that like as much as we 49 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:23.840 can. We don't just put it out for the sake of like attention and 50 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:29.280 like a flash in the PAN type marketing campaign or social push. So to 51 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:30.879 me, I'm with you on this. It's just so hard, when you're 52 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:35.919 like in the Daytoday, not to go to the route of just gotta meet 53 00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.120 this quota, got to do this thing, and so I feel I feel 54 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:43.120 this a lot. Yeah, listen, I think you know marketings and art 55 00:03:43.159 --> 00:03:46.719 and a science. There's the two facets to marketing in every bit of marketing 56 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:50.719 that we do. I think the hard thing is that some people lean in 57 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:53.759 one direction and neither direction is wrong. You have to have both. So, 58 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:58.680 you know, let's say we lean more towards the the science, or 59 00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:01.680 like the we just need a certain amount of work, because we know that 60 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:04.120 the math plays out there, like if we just do a certain amount of 61 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:06.879 work, you can convert this number of people and we start to like really 62 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:11.240 focus on the tinkering part of it. But the problem is if you've you 63 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:15.599 lean way too far towards the art side. We do really like creative work 64 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:18.000 we're proud of, but it doesn't necessarily move the needle because we haven't thought 65 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:23.680 about how it impacts people from a psychology standpoint or from a conversion standpoint. 66 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:27.120 So, like, I think it's it's hard to strike a balance, and 67 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:30.920 it starts with at the very highest levels, how do we talk about marketing 68 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:38.560 and building awareness with executive team? Like we have to agree what we think 69 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:42.240 marketing looks like for our company before we can say, okay, well then, 70 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.079 what channels and what types of programs were going to build out, and 71 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:47.199 then how are we going to tactically execute? We end up talking a lot 72 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.800 about the tactical execution, but like we're not really deciding at the very highest 73 00:04:50.839 --> 00:04:56.920 levels and getting an alignment that okay, you know, we want to do 74 00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.879 great creative work and we're going to also work on conversions. Like we end 75 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:04.319 up just we end up getting pushed around. I think that's ultimately what happens. 76 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:06.519 We talked about a lot about having, you know, marketing, having 77 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:10.720 a seat at the table, and if it doesn't, then marketing gets told 78 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:14.279 what it's going to accomplish, and those are non marketers telling marketers want to 79 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:16.279 accomplish. They have no idea what is even possible, because we're not pushing 80 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:19.000 back. So let's say, if you have a set of table great, 81 00:05:19.079 --> 00:05:23.240 use that seat to set expectations correctly. If you don't have a seat of 82 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:26.399 the table, push back. This is where, you know, Dave Gerhart 83 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:30.240 says you shouldn't work for a Seeo who doesn't get marketing like it's some degree 84 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:31.920 that's true, but to some degree it's not. Because you you have the 85 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:35.199 right to say, actually, here's how it works, here's what's going to 86 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:38.879 happen if we do that, if we just put out a bunch of commodity 87 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:42.279 content, if we're just throwing stuff out there and hoping it sticks. Yeah, 88 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:45.199 sometimes we're going to get a hit, but usually it's going to fall 89 00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:46.879 flat. And what does that do over time? It devalues our brand, 90 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:51.480 it makes people less excited to hear from us. It just decreases our value 91 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:55.720 in the market place over time. So start to the top doesn't mean we 92 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:58.240 can always get there. So sometimes we have to push upward and kind of 93 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:02.560 educate upward. It's interesting because I did an interview with Steve Harder, who's 94 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:06.279 over at he's the CMO at jot form and he's talking about science, art 95 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:11.720 and Voodoo of marketing, and I think what happens is you get like the 96 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:15.879 scientific minded marketer who goes really into like if we just do this, then 97 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:19.279 we'll get this type of you know, and it's all science to them, 98 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:23.879 and you can hit Voodoo even if you just lean into science. And then 99 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:28.240 on the art side you could create something so creative that you strike that magic 100 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:31.319 moment right and then, because you've seen the magic work on either side, 101 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:33.920 you start defending your side like all see, it's in the science, or 102 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:39.079 Oh see, it's in the art, and it's like it's actually this interesting 103 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:42.879 mix where I think it's multiple teammates that have a leaning, and then also 104 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:48.079 your internal ability to go okay, where how do I make sure I continue 105 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:51.240 to have output even when I don't have that level of inspiration? That's what 106 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:58.959 makes US professionals, right, but also I'm actively seeking inspiration that leads to 107 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:03.879 like a good content and better, more creative projects, not just well, 108 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:06.879 I hit this mark or I do this because we've have this goal on a 109 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:12.240 piece of paper or in a sauna or whatever. So I love the the 110 00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:15.759 science and art and Magic Talk of marketing. Because it's it's all three and 111 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:19.639 maybe someone will add another one. Maybe there's something we're missing. Still, 112 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:24.240 emily, any thoughts? I know we kind of like started just going because 113 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:28.240 this is a great topic to bring but I'd love to hear anything you're thinking 114 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:31.519 over there. Yeah, well, well, it seems like in this article 115 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:38.040 he's pitting like storytelling and quality versus like scaling content, and I think that 116 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:42.639 there's definitely a way that you can be strategic about both things. Like if 117 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:46.199 you start off with a good piece of content, you can repurpose it and 118 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:50.319 then that's how you scale it in so many different ways, so it doesn't 119 00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:55.040 have to be one or the other necessarily. And also, adding to that, 120 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:58.040 like you said, you if you have a team where you have someone 121 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:01.240 who's more of a analytical thinker, who's more into the data side of it, 122 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.680 and then you have someone who's more to the creative side of it, 123 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:09.480 that's like a that's a powerful match. So I think that's really important to 124 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:13.720 have people checking each other on certain things and saying, well, maybe we 125 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:16.199 should think about it this way. But I love that idea of like actually 126 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:22.920 scaling quality, so it's like quantity and quality. You find what works and 127 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:26.399 you put out more of that or you break it down into other pieces for 128 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:31.720 social in particular. But I'm wondering, Benjie, since your role is as 129 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:37.759 podcast hosts, like how does that look for you, trying to find the 130 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:41.639 meat of an episode and the quality of it but having to produce so many 131 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:46.080 episodes? Yeah, it's just a constant tension and a conversation that we're always 132 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:48.519 having. Like I enjoy getting to talk to this many people, but I 133 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:52.559 also realize in like with the amount of episodes we come out with, it's 134 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:58.480 just it's just a constant tension. You know, I have to like some 135 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.279 days I don't want to show up for this many conversations and other days it's 136 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:03.639 like okay, like I'm in the flow and like like let's just do this 137 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:07.440 thing. It'll be great. So to me, like the back end is 138 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.519 where I'm just continuing to try to get better. I think that's where we're 139 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:16.240 a lot of the conversation is is on how do we pull just the gold 140 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:20.000 out of this conversation we had and really give that to our audience in the 141 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:22.799 best way and to the person that took time out of their schedule to come 142 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:28.840 on be to be growth, like how do we equip them with personal assets 143 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:31.000 that they can use that like look good on them because they came and they 144 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.799 shared their expertise and they said some great stuff. Like want to set them 145 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.600 up to win, you know. So to me that's a big proponent of 146 00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:43.000 like great content is. You didn't just put it up somewhere and it exists 147 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:48.039 online now, but like you were able to distribute it well and people are 148 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:52.600 finding it and finding value from it after a week instead of it just dying 149 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:58.600 in the Linkedin Algorithm. But that'll probably always be a battle. Right, 150 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:03.279 Bundie, that's interesting. You're talking about something that like really hits on with 151 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:05.159 me, emily, and I talk a lot about this, like how we 152 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:09.720 can do great work, we can do work we're proud of, as Seth 153 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:11.279 God and saying, but also it can be like a tree that falls in 154 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:15.480 the forest and no one hears it right, like if it doesn't get picked 155 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:18.960 up by the algorithm or if it doesn't if we don't distribute it proper like 156 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.679 we can do all this great work and we can be really proud of something 157 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.360 that just didn't perform, and ultimately that makes us on successful marketers. So, 158 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:28.879 like when we talk about content marketing, we don't just mean content, 159 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.720 we mean content marketing, like you actually have to market that asset. You 160 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:33.519 have to get it into people's hands, like you were saying. People have 161 00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:39.159 to see it and find value in it. It's not about US patting ourselves 162 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:41.159 in the back and saying, yeah, we did our best job. It's 163 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:45.159 about other people finding value. I think that can be really hard because we 164 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:48.879 we like we're sometimes stuck in this mode of like we're just creating stuff to 165 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:52.519 create stuff and we forget it's all about the value that it creates, not 166 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:54.840 having done it, not checking the box. HMM. Well, I'M gonna 167 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:58.000 start to wrap this thing up, but I gotta say I think if I'm 168 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:03.799 focused on anything right now, it's really deep, like I love when someone 169 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:09.799 writes a book or like a very well detailed content piece and then all the 170 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:11.559 stuff they can pull out of that like that, to me, is basically 171 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:16.600 the best strategy, if I'm looking across like what I admire the most and 172 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:18.960 what I feel like you can get the most out of. You went really 173 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:22.799 deep on a topic, you went really far in so you have this wealth 174 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:26.799 of knowledge and then you're able to pull out all these insights and you can 175 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.840 share those on Linkedin and you're not like, Oh, here's this one post 176 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.879 about this content piece I did, but it's like here's some of the content 177 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.919 from this larger piece I did, and the more we can do that, 178 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:39.840 I think you're valuing your audience because you're giving them some of your insights, 179 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:43.919 and you have so many insights because you did deep research, and that's a 180 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:48.919 really easy way to like carry your strategy for a long time because you can 181 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.960 talk on that topic over and over again from different vantage points. So it's 182 00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:56.559 something I'm I'm paying attention to because I think there's a lot of people doing 183 00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:00.919 it well and it fits really well today because as we were talking to an 184 00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:07.120 author who has gone very deep on the topic of marketing and PR and David 185 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:13.360 Meureman Scott, author of new rules of marketing and PR so let's dive into 186 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:18.639 this featured conversation. No, you'll enjoy it and we'll see you again tomorrow. 187 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:24.200 Welcome back to be to be growth. Today I am joined by David 188 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:30.919 Meerman Scott. He is marketing and business growth speaker as well, as many 189 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:33.240 of you will know, the author of new rules of marketing and PR as 190 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:37.720 well as the Wall Street Journal best seller fanocracy. David, pleasure having you 191 00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:41.080 here on B tob growth with us. Hey, Benjie's super great to be 192 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:46.360 here. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. So the new 193 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:52.440 eighth addition of the new rules of marketing in PR it has gone live and 194 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:58.600 quite an achievement, and so congratulations there, sir. Thank you. I 195 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.200 mean it's a remarkable that it's the eighth edition. I mean I when I 196 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:07.240 was originally writing it, which was back in two thousand and five and two 197 00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:09.919 thousand and six, I thought I was hitting on some interesting ideas, but 198 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:15.759 I never would have imagined that this book would become what it has become. 199 00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:18.679 So, yeah, it's super exciting. Maybe we talked about that here in 200 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:22.320 a minute. Let me ask you this. What are some of the major 201 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.559 updates that led to this eighth edition? Some of the things you're really focused 202 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:30.759 on right now? I'm constantly doing a couple of things of my updates, 203 00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:33.960 and it's roughly every two years. The first thing I'm doing I read the 204 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.639 entire book again each time and I'm looking at every story that I tell. 205 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:43.879 The it's a very much a story driven book and I'm looking at every story 206 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:48.120 that I tell to make sure that's the best story to illustrate that particular point 207 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:52.919 and those that aren't go away, and then I'm looking for new stories that 208 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:58.000 make a ton of sense. So in this addition I think I've got about 209 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:01.639 twenty new stories. There's about fifty or sixty in total in the book. 210 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:09.720 I'm also looking for new tools or new ways to communicate that have either begun 211 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.120 or have taken off since the last edition. Example of this in the new 212 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:20.200 edition are social audio apps like clubhouse if, for example, which basically didn't 213 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:24.840 exist when I was writing the seventh edition a couple of years ago. So 214 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:31.000 I'm constantly looking for those new examples and new tools that I can write about 215 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:37.200 interesting. So you're collecting these stories and we'll talk about another couple maybe tools 216 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:41.919 as well in this conversation. But maybe highlight a story for us, one 217 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:46.559 that really steps out to you from this this addition, one of my favorite 218 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:50.879 stories is around news jacking. So newsjacking is a concept I invented more than 219 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:56.559 a decade ago and it's the idea that when you understand how a new story 220 00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:01.639 breaks and every new story always breaks in a typical bell shaped curve. The 221 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.759 news begins, it begins, it takes off in excitement among the media and 222 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:09.759 people and then at some point it peaks and drops off. Doesn't matter what 223 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:13.799 the new story is. That could be over the course of a few hours, 224 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:16.919 a few days or a few weeks, and the media is looking for 225 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:22.879 experts to be able to quote in the stories as they're breaking and if it's 226 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:26.000 a new kind of story, they don't know who is going to be the 227 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:30.879 right person to quote. So, for example, just two days ago, 228 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:37.080 as we're recording this, it became known that Elon Musk was successful in his 229 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:41.399 bid to acquire twitter. And I know a bit about twitter, I know 230 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:45.440 a bit about Algorithm. So I pushed out a blog post at that moment 231 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:50.879 and I end up getting an interview in tech crunch and I end I ended 232 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:56.279 up being mentioned in Seth Goden's blog, seth being the most popular blogger in 233 00:15:56.360 --> 00:16:00.080 the world. Yep, just because I was timely in that content in the 234 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.960 new rules of marketing and PR eighth addition, I have a great example of 235 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:11.240 news jacking success from a lawyer named Russell Alexander. And what rust does is 236 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:18.200 he focuses very much on family law, and so his expertise is he understands, 237 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:22.720 in Toronto, in Canada, everything there is to know about law, 238 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.519 and so what he did was he created the Covid nineteen and Family Law Information 239 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:33.519 Center, and then that was a great way to push his business out into 240 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:37.600 the market place. He was seen by hundreds and hundreds of people, some 241 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:41.960 of the WHO's, some of whom became clients, and many members of the 242 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:47.039 media. He had actually hire five new lawyers becoming because it became so popular. 243 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:52.279 So that's a story that everyone can relate to around your area of expertise. 244 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:57.720 Another quick story comes from my friend Shelly Palmer. Shelley is very much 245 00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:07.480 an expert in Bitcoin and other crypto currencies. So he wrote an instant book 246 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:14.960 and put it out on kindle's direct publishing platform, KTP, which allows anybody 247 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.880 to publish a book pretty much instantly. I mean two or three days your 248 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:22.240 book can be out, and it was right when crypto was taking off, 249 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:30.039 and that book ended up becoming super popular among all kinds of executives who needed 250 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:36.759 to understand how crypto worked, and he ended up then getting a bunch of 251 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:42.240 new clients and he charges five figures per month for his clients and generated a 252 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:47.839 great, great deal of new revenue for his business, very much a be 253 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:53.039 to be business, where he's targeting large organizations and educates them around crypto. 254 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:57.480 And it was because He created a book at the exact moment it became, 255 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:03.599 I think it still is, the most popular book on Amazon that explains Crypto. 256 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.240 So these are the ideas of newsjacking, but those are a couple of 257 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.319 cool examples that are in the new book. Okay, so let's talk about 258 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:14.440 newsjacking for a second. Specifically as it pertains to be to be companies, 259 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:18.640 there are some ways that we should be spotting trends, or you think that 260 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.799 be to be companies, in specifically marketing teams, can take advantage of this 261 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.880 idea of News Jack and if we just have the eyes to see it hundred 262 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:30.920 percent, it's fabulous for be to be companies. So I always recommend people 263 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:37.519 take a look using their mobile device or their computer at Google news or an 264 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:41.880 equivalent kind of news source, as well as looking at twitter to find out 265 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.319 what trending, what hashtags are trending, what stories are trending, and I 266 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:52.880 recommend removing all personalization, because what you're looking for is stories that break that 267 00:18:52.960 --> 00:19:00.000 you never saw coming, because that's when a story will be like, oh 268 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:03.599 my gosh, I never saw coming that you on musk was going to potentially 269 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:08.519 buy twitter. Once he does, the media is looking for expertise. I 270 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:15.200 became that expertise. So in a BETB company you've got expertise. You've got 271 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:19.359 expertise around the technology that you provide, you've got expertise around the markets you 272 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:25.119 serve, and if there's an acquisition in your industry, for example, or 273 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:30.279 if there's a new regulatory change in your industry, for example, or if 274 00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:36.759 there's some kind of something happening around big picture news, for example, you 275 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:41.480 then have an expertise that the market is looking for, and that is when 276 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:45.440 you should create real time content. That can be a blog post. That's 277 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.480 how I've done it. You could write a real quicki book. That's how 278 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:53.319 Shelley Palmer dot did it. You could create a tweet or another social media 279 00:19:53.400 --> 00:20:00.559 post using an appropriate Hashtag, and that's actually how I ended up getting the 280 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:06.599 tech crunch in curry, because the reporter was following the Hashtags, and that 281 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:10.599 is how, then you can end up number one, getting interest in the 282 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:15.119 media around your expertise, but you also might end up making sales as a 283 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:19.200 result, because you're seen as the expert, people seek you out and then 284 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.240 they might be interested in doing business with you. Okay, so this is 285 00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:26.599 just an observation and you push back if I am observing incorrectly. But with 286 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:32.319 the ideas that you just provided for newsjacking, it sounds like you would keep 287 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:34.920 this in some sort of written form or very visual form, but maybe not 288 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:41.000 something like a podcast, if it would have to be like that, alongside 289 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.799 a blog post, that alongside something that's written, because there's something about, 290 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.240 at least in my mind, the podcast medium, where it's too real time, 291 00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:52.720 where like I could just record on my phone and then push it and 292 00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:55.519 someone have to go listen to it to make me the expert, whereas they 293 00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.079 could review written form. Is that right? Am I on the right track 294 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:02.880 there? I would look at it slightly differently. Okay, when there's something 295 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:07.039 that breaks in the news that you never saw coming, you want to try 296 00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:11.440 to reach people for whom they don't know who you are yet, if they 297 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:15.480 don't know you're the expert yet, and you need to reach them in a 298 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:21.000 way that they're going to find you. So the nature of a podcast in 299 00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:26.039 particular, which was part of the question you asked, is that generally you 300 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:27.880 have your followers, and you know you have. You have tons of people 301 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:33.759 who follow this podcast, which is great, but unless one of them happens 302 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:38.480 to be a reporter, they probably won't listen to this episode in a timely 303 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:44.720 manner. So you can still get your ideas out into in the form of 304 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:48.480 a podcast or the form of a youtube video or the form of another piece 305 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:53.799 of non written content. That's totally fine. You just need to make sure 306 00:21:55.119 --> 00:22:00.319 that in some way you're showing that content to people in a way they can 307 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:04.839 find it. So you could do your podcast, great, but then send 308 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:11.000 through twitter or send through Linkedin or send through other ways, using appropriate hashtags, 309 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:15.880 using appropriate keywords that you push out, Hey, I've just done this 310 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:21.599 podcast. We just talked about, for example, Elon Musk buying twitter, 311 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:23.839 we talked about the importance of the Algorithm or whatever it is that you've just 312 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:29.519 done, and then make sure people can see it on twitter, bounce back 313 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:33.599 to then us into your podcast. So the form of the content can be 314 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:37.440 something other than written, but you do need to make sure it gets into 315 00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:41.960 the search engine so it's able to be found. Love it and it's so 316 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:48.359 interesting to think from first addition to now. I mean that's what fifteen years 317 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:53.960 when we fifteen here? Fifteen years since the first edition published, but nearly 318 00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:57.799 twenty since I started writing these ideas. Yeah, at that point twitter doesn't 319 00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:04.079 exist, so the he and facebook is definitely not widely accepted. Might just 320 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:07.880 be for students. So it was only for students at that point when I 321 00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:12.480 was first writing. Exactly. Okay, so you're highlighting something that has is 322 00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:17.240 available now, this idea of news jacking. I wonder from that go all 323 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:21.799 the way back with me, David. First addition, what has had staying 324 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:25.400 power? Something that you wrote about then that you're going, okay, this 325 00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:33.400 is a not so new rule anymore and it's still extremely applicable today. So 326 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:38.720 every edition from the very beginning, what has not changed is the strategy. 327 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:44.880 It's good. The strategy is when you think about the new rules of marketing 328 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:47.720 and PR well, what are the old rules? The old rules of marketing 329 00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:51.880 and PR prior to the Web, were there are three ways to get noticed. 330 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:55.720 You could spend a lot of money on advertising, you could advertise and 331 00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:59.440 magazines, newspapers, television, radio for be to be. For example, 332 00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.680 you could advertised by booking space on the trade show for and I'm not saying 333 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:10.039 that's wrong, but that's the only way you could get your word out there. 334 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.720 or You could convince the media to write about you some way, and 335 00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:17.559 many be to be companies spend tens of thousands of dollars per month on a 336 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:21.920 PR agency. or You could have a massive sales team to go and knock 337 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:26.039 on doors to or pick up the phone and cold call to try to sell 338 00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:30.640 your be to be products. Those are still true and I would ask how 339 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:33.960 is that working for you? If you're using those techniques right, if you're 340 00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:40.640 spending money to advertise in the trade publication for your your industry, be to 341 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:44.200 be companies of traditionally done, or you're spending a whole lot of money to 342 00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:48.960 to have your company exhibit on Trade Show for if it's working, that's awesome, 343 00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.359 but for many companies it's not working so well. So those are the 344 00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:56.160 old rules. The new rules are that you can using the tools of the 345 00:24:56.200 --> 00:25:02.640 web, social media, your own website, email, newsletters, blogs, 346 00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:07.000 like we're doing right now, a podcast. You can do these things and 347 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:12.079 reach your buyers directly and for free. Yes, it takes time, but 348 00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:17.359 it doesn't cost anything, and that's the new rules, and that has not 349 00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:22.839 changed in any way over the past nearly twenty years, fifteen years since the 350 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:30.200 first edition was published. It's so interesting because that hasn't changed yet in some 351 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:34.319 ways it's been so sped up and it's gotten more and more noisy. There's 352 00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:40.119 a lot of content pollution. There's a lot of voices now, even in 353 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:44.319 a BETB space that can tend to be behind be TOC marketers. We're seeing 354 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.519 this trend of content and just for the sake of content, just for the 355 00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.880 sake of rinking, just for the sake of being and having a presence on 356 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:56.960 social how does that change your mindset as how we have to come to the 357 00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:02.599 table with the type of content we're creating and maybe that shifts our mindset slightly 358 00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:07.160 differently in the as we produce the work we do. I think were the 359 00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:11.559 most important thing around mindsetence. I love the way you frame the question. 360 00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:15.960 Is that the vast majority of be to be companies, and I've worked in 361 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:19.079 be tob M. I spent fifteen years doing be to be marketing and sales. 362 00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:26.519 I worked for financial information technology businesses like Thompson Reuters and Dowd Jones, 363 00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:30.119 and we sold to banks and securities companies and government agencies. So I get 364 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:34.519 it. I've been there myself fifteen years, and what be to be companies 365 00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:38.119 have traditionally done and what they still do, and I see it every single 366 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:44.000 day, is they focus on their products and services. And Yeah, they're 367 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:48.519 creating content, but it's all about their products and services. I think what 368 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:55.000 we need to do is completely shift our mindset and think about it instead of 369 00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:59.880 what are the problems that are buyers face? How can we understand them? 370 00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.720 Them in the form of what I call buy our personas, and there's ALD 371 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:08.799 chapter on buy our personas, the idea that if you understand very deeply the 372 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:15.400 problems and the challenges that every buyer has, you can then create the kind 373 00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:19.200 of content that will help them to solve their problems, to educate and inform 374 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:26.680 them, and then from there, as they become educated, they become your 375 00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.200 fan. And then once they become your fan, when they need a practice 376 00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:34.240 service like that, they know who to contact. I'll give you an example 377 00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:38.440 of a company I've worked with since the very beginning of this book. In 378 00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:45.039 two thousand and seven I joined the hub spot advisory board and I've been on 379 00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:48.440 the hub spot advisory board since the very beginning, advising. Initially, it 380 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.559 would there are eight people in the company when I joined, advising the CO 381 00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:56.200 founders, Brian Halligaan Dur mess shot directly, and now they're I don't know, 382 00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:00.559 four thousand employees, something like that still working with them. And we 383 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:06.519 focused on just that. We focused on understanding our buyers. We did buy 384 00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:11.200 our persona research developed content for buy our personas going back fifteen years ago. 385 00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:17.039 Yeah, created a great website, created a blog, created a youtube channel, 386 00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:22.039 podcast and now they've got multiples of these channels. They have millions and 387 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:26.640 millions of fans at hub spot and many of them don't buy anything. The 388 00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:32.119 vast majority of them actually don't buy anything, but they become fans of the 389 00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:36.839 content that hub spot delivers, which is all free. And then from there 390 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:41.319 some of them say, Oh, I need a crm system, I need 391 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.559 a marketing automation software system, I need a platform like hub spot delivers. 392 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:49.839 I trust them. They have helped me over the years. That's the company 393 00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:53.039 I want to do business with. And they've been doing great. They're growing 394 00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:57.680 every single quarter and they went public in two thousand and fourteen and it's been 395 00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:02.680 fabulous to see. Yeah, no arguing there. They have done fantastic for 396 00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:06.640 themselves and it's fun to watch as they've branched out into podcasting specifically and having 397 00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:10.799 a hub spot network of shows. It's an interesting play that I've been paying 398 00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:15.359 attention to it it is and there they're, my poster child over the entire 399 00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:21.680 length of the book of a company that's adopted these I and I'm not taking 400 00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:25.119 the credit they did the work, but that have adopted all of the ideas 401 00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:30.839 in the new rules of marketing p are to become a fabulous example of a 402 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.200 tremendous success in the B Tob World. One thing we should mention is since 403 00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:41.400 the seventh addition, something that's major that's transpired has been this covid pandemic, 404 00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:45.559 and yes, that has brought on a lot of transitions or sped up some 405 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:51.759 things. Right. What do you think, because of Covid specifically, have 406 00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:56.000 been those largest effects in the things that were now seeing, as specifically as 407 00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.720 it pertains to marketing and PR so the main thing I've seen, and it's 408 00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:07.519 so interesting to me and so important, I think, is that virtual events 409 00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:12.759 and the use of video, like we're doing right now. Yep, has 410 00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:19.480 sped up during covid because we couldn't meet people facetoface, we couldn't have the 411 00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:25.079 trade show, we couldn't have the meetings with clients. So video has become 412 00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:29.599 super important. I mean just me and this. I'm doing this presentation from 413 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:33.720 my home studio where I've got a bunch of different cameras that I was going 414 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:34.440 to show you and I didn't turn it on. I've got a bunch of 415 00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:40.759 different cameras set up and it's great. It's a great way to communicate and 416 00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:47.759 so, interestingly, I did a bunch of research about the neuroscience about why 417 00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:53.920 this is true, the neuroscience behind video as a way of communicating. So 418 00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:59.200 there's actually two forms of neuroscience. The first form of neuroscience is the idea 419 00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:07.240 of proximity. It turns out when we humans get to know other human beings, 420 00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:11.240 that's how we become fans, because all humans want to be part of 421 00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:15.079 a tribe of likeminded people. So, going back to hub spot, they've 422 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:21.680 built a tribe of likeminded people and they can get twenty four pre pandemic twenty 423 00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:27.720 fivezero people in person to their inbound event every year in Boston, and I've 424 00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:33.400 presented at that conference every single year since it started. And people are like 425 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:37.240 minded. They're there because they want to be together with people who are just 426 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:41.799 like them, the same reason that I'm a huge fan of the grateful dead 427 00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:44.880 and go I've been to eighty five grateful dead concerts. I go to grateful 428 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.960 dead concerts. I I'm with my friends. When I'm Surfing, I'm surfing 429 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:52.720 with my friends, my tribe of like minded people. And so it turns 430 00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:59.240 out one neuroscientist named Edward t hall identified the different levels of proximity. Further 431 00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:04.680 than twelve feet is called public space. We know people in our public space. 432 00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:07.920 We don't actively track them, we know they're there. You know, 433 00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:09.720 if you're walking down the street you see with someone approaching, you know they're 434 00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:15.039 there. Once they get inside of twelve feet, between twelve feet and four 435 00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:19.759 feet, that's called social space and we begin to track those people. If 436 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.720 you walk into a room, let's say you walk into a cocktail party, 437 00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:28.200 your immediately looking around for people who are within twelve feet of you, who 438 00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:31.279 you might know, or you're also looking for enemies. That goes back tens 439 00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:36.200 of thousands of years. It's it's in our brain. It's hardwired. We 440 00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:38.960 want to know. Is Our tribe here, because that's when we're safe and 441 00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:44.839 comfortable, or are these people, people we don't know and there's potentially danger? 442 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:49.200 We can't help but feel that way. Inside of four feet is where 443 00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:53.839 the most powerful human connections happen, positive or negative, and that's called personal 444 00:32:53.920 --> 00:33:01.440 space. So the second idea around neurosciences the idea of mirror neurons. Mirror 445 00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:07.079 neurons are the part of our brains that fire when we see somebody doing something 446 00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:09.559 as if we're doing it our self, which I'll demonstrate for you now. 447 00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:16.160 I brought a leman and I have a slice of lemon here, and so 448 00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:21.599 if I were to take a bite of this lemon, my brain will fire. 449 00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:25.839 But what's interesting is, because of mirror neurons, your brain will fire 450 00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:30.200 two so, even if you're listening and not watching this, you can imagine 451 00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:34.160 what I'm doing now. I'm holding a lemon in one my left hand. 452 00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:37.039 I'm only a slice of lemon in my right hand. I'm now going to 453 00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:42.240 take a bite of the slice of lemon and it's wow, it's super powerful. 454 00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.240 It makes my eyes close. My eyes are actually watering a little bit. 455 00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:47.400 My mouth puckers up. I can feel it on my tongue and on 456 00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:52.400 my lips. My brain is firing like crazy because I taken a bite of 457 00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:55.720 this lemon. Bengie, your brain is firing. Tell me right, that's 458 00:33:55.759 --> 00:34:00.720 exactly right. I feel it in the back of my jaw. You're tasting 459 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:05.079 that lemon. How interesting is that? That's mirror neurons. Yeah, holding 460 00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:14.599 those two concepts together, the power of being physically close to somebody, together 461 00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:21.719 with the power of mirror neurons, means that when you see somebody on video 462 00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:25.719 and you have a conversation, your brain and my brain are firing as if 463 00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:30.960 we're in the same room having this conversation, perhaps over a glass of wine 464 00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:37.360 or perhaps over a coffee. And that's a very, very powerful thing and 465 00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:40.159 it is exactly the reason why why you feel you know a movie or a 466 00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:45.440 television star, even though intellectually you know you've never met them. You and 467 00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:50.119 I right now intellectually know we're not in the same room. I'm in outside 468 00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:53.000 of Boston, and and so you know you could be watching this, you 469 00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:57.440 could be in Australia, you know, miles and miles and miles away, 470 00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:00.960 but you can still feel your brain as if we're in the same room together, 471 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:07.000 which is exactly why virtual events have become so interesting to me and it's 472 00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:12.920 also exactly why video has taken off during the pandemic. You asked me a 473 00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:16.880 really simple question about what the covid pandemic has done for the new rules of 474 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:22.159 marketing in PR and I had to jump into the narrow science behind this because 475 00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:25.239 to me it's fascinating. It's all around the power of video, which is 476 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:30.280 not going away. Yes, we're going to begin doing in person conferences. 477 00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:34.079 I'm booked for one and next week, I think. And yes, in 478 00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:38.320 person sales meetings from be tob companies, in person customer meetings with be to 479 00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:43.800 be companies are definitely going to begin taking off the ladder half of twenty two 480 00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:47.159 and into two thousand and twenty three. But video is here to stay. 481 00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:52.880 Hey, be to be growth listeners, we want to hear from you. 482 00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:55.480 In fact, we will pay you for it. Just head over to B 483 00:35:55.599 --> 00:36:01.079 TOB growth podcom and complete a short survey about the show to enter for a 484 00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:06.280 chance to win two hundred and fifty dollars. Plus the first fifty participants will 485 00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:09.440 receive twenty five dollars as our way of saying thank you so much one more 486 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:15.920 time. That's be tob growth podcom, letter B, number two letter be 487 00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:22.159 growth podcom. One entry per person must be an active listener of the show 488 00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:29.639 to enter and look forward to hearing from you. Yes, we're going to 489 00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:32.480 begin doing in person conferences. I'm booked for one and next week, I 490 00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:37.320 think. And yes, in person sales meetings from be tob companies, in 491 00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:43.559 person customer meetings with be to be companies are definitely going to begin taking off 492 00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:46.440 the ladder half of twenty two and into two thousand and twenty three. But 493 00:36:46.840 --> 00:36:51.079 video is here to stay. I think this fascinating road that you just took 494 00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:54.519 us down. Let me play student for a second here and ask, because 495 00:36:55.320 --> 00:37:01.920 where I go is this space of while I feel connected to you right now, 496 00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:06.280 David, and you can use the lemon example and we can go okay, 497 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:12.280 you sense this. There's the the marketing side or the public side. 498 00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:15.679 That's great. You can connect people all over the world, but I think 499 00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:20.920 this at the same time we're navigating a conversation right now internally, within work 500 00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:24.480 and within job jobs, where we're going. Okay, we all feel somewhat 501 00:37:24.519 --> 00:37:30.519 disconnected, even though we're on these video calls, even though we've figure it 502 00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:35.519 out ways to use zoom more efficiently or try to have a culture for our 503 00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:37.840 institutions. You know, while we're all working from home and can hear our 504 00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:42.760 dogs and babies in the background, we can we close our laptops. That 505 00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:46.920 sense of disconnection is also something many are navigating. How do you see those 506 00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:52.280 two both Yay, we can be connected from anywhere and Nay, we can 507 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:57.760 be connected from anywhere but not so connected. How do you see those playing 508 00:37:57.800 --> 00:38:01.920 together or where do you see that going as you think of how we navigate 509 00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:07.800 that? Well, I think that it's not necessarily an either or kind of 510 00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:12.679 thing and I think that getting back to the things that we all loved to 511 00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:20.719 do pre pandemic, going to the conference, meeting with customers over dinner or 512 00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:24.599 any of those sorts of activities, or having a meeting in your office with 513 00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:30.280 your colleagues in the company that you work for. I don't believe that those 514 00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:37.400 should go away because we can use video for some of those activities. I 515 00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:42.440 think the hybrid world, or a world where both of them coexist is the 516 00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.000 best way for a be to be company to be thinking about this. You 517 00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:50.960 know what that means for work. Might be in the office, three days 518 00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:54.000 off, two days or something like that. Or in the case of people 519 00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:58.679 who live remotely, you got to you got to come to headquarters a couple 520 00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:01.559 weeks out of the year. What it means for selling is sure, you 521 00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:07.039 can do some selling over zoom, but getting to meet that customer, just 522 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:12.280 like the old days, facetoface over a meal, absolutely important. Getting your 523 00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:19.159 customers together for a customer conference once a year critically important. Physically together critically 524 00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:24.760 important. Going to the conference and being seen and interacting with existing and potential 525 00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:29.320 customers. That's not going away. That's also going to be very important. 526 00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:35.960 So I think it's a matter of using video effectively at the same time that 527 00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:39.599 we get back to the things that have worked traditionally for for dozens and dozens 528 00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:43.840 of years with be to be companies. Yep, and along those lines. 529 00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:47.400 Then for you you're going with virtual events and I would agree. I don't 530 00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:51.719 see that going away at all. You're going to have physical events come back, 531 00:39:51.800 --> 00:39:54.559 but almost all those events are going to have some sort of online video 532 00:39:54.599 --> 00:40:00.760 format that goes right alongside where people are joining from everywhere and anywhere. I 533 00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:05.920 think that's probably true and I think that's what's important to be consider if that's 534 00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:09.119 a thing that you're you're going to be doing with your be to be company 535 00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:17.280 for everyone who's listening in is don't just have video cameras record the inperson component 536 00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:22.360 of the speech, of the presentations. Make it a true hybrid. A 537 00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:28.840 true hybrid take the best of of the virtual environment together with the best of 538 00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:30.599 the in person and arm and I'll give you an example of what I mean 539 00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:37.400 by that. You can have a keynote speech, for example, where there 540 00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:44.280 somebody delivering a keynote that can be filmed and broadcast, and then you could 541 00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:51.599 have the inperson audience do a q and a with the speaker while the virtual 542 00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:58.440 audience takes a break. Then the speaker runs to a room when the inperson 543 00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:06.920 audience takes their coffee break and then the speaker does a virtual Qa with on 544 00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:12.320 video with the virtual audience where the virtual audience can ask questions. That's a 545 00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:16.559 true hybrid experience and that's where I think we need to go, and not 546 00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:21.119 very many companies or testing that yet, but that's the direction I think we 547 00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:27.360 need to go to leverage the best of both worlds. Simply recording your in 548 00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:30.400 person stuff and broadcasting it is not going to work so well, in my 549 00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:35.599 opinion. Well, I want to discuss one other thing that I know you 550 00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:39.440 and I are both particularly interested in and we're monitoring, and it's a piece 551 00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:43.480 of this book that's new that you really spend some time on, which is 552 00:41:43.559 --> 00:41:50.599 around ai and how AI is influencing marketing. So let's dive in there. 553 00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:58.440 How have you seen ai tools really take a leap and start helping marketers and 554 00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:04.559 coming alongside us? Huge Ai over the last two editions of the new rules 555 00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:08.079 and marketing and PR so roughly the last five years, has really really taken 556 00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:13.800 off. So there's some ai tools that happen kind of behind the scenes that 557 00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:17.079 we don't even know about, like if you're using any of the social networking 558 00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:22.840 companies, advertising platforms Linkedin, facebook and so on, there's AI components in 559 00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:25.760 there to understand who to show the ads too and you don't even see that. 560 00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:30.239 You don't push any buttons to make that happen. If you're using, 561 00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:35.440 for example, tools like hub spot. There's tools within those kinds of systems 562 00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:39.119 that help you to create the best headline for a blog post, for example, 563 00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:42.920 things like that. You don't even know that's going on behind the scenes 564 00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:46.199 when you're using those tools sometimes. And then there's the tools that you can 565 00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:52.519 actually buy, like, for example, I'm a fan of a transcription service 566 00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:58.800 called Otter Ai, and so I take the recordings of speeches, I take 567 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:02.639 the recordings of interviews I've done, drop them in and their ai engine then 568 00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:08.039 creates a transcript. Many podcasters use that. That those tools as well. 569 00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:13.280 That helps me a ton when I'm doing an interview and then creating a blog 570 00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.679 post or a story in the book around that, because I don't have to 571 00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:22.199 transcribe by hand. And I'm a huge fan of a company called lately, 572 00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:28.760 and lately is an AI engine for creating short form content from long form content. 573 00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:31.440 So, for example, what you can do is you can drop in 574 00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:36.360 an entire blog post or a chapter of a book, and that's a text 575 00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:40.880 based piece of content or a video or a podcast, and then when the 576 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:50.719 lately ai engine does is it then puts it into social media ready chunks. 577 00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:54.400 So that, for example, one blog post that I write a blog on 578 00:43:54.639 --> 00:44:01.280 at least once a week. A blog post will then be generating fifteen or 579 00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:07.679 even twenty tweets and it takes just seconds to do that. Now I'll go 580 00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:12.320 in and I'll edit the make sure they're okay. So roughly ten minutes total 581 00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:15.840 to generate fifteen or twenty amazing tweets. Then I can schedule them one per 582 00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:20.679 day or two per week or when every two weeks, or whatever schedule I 583 00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:24.639 want. And this is transformed the way I use twitter because it's allowed me 584 00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:30.239 to create really easily a whole bunch of short form, in this case tweets, 585 00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:35.679 or they could also be linked in posts or instagram posts from one blog 586 00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:38.159 post, where I used to just take the headline of the blog post, 587 00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:42.920 put in the URL, push that out and that was the extent of me 588 00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:47.039 showing my twitter followers that I've got a new blog post. Now I'm putting 589 00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:52.320 out tweets and other customers of lately are putting out tweets on a regular basis. 590 00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:55.519 or I'll take a onehour video, drop it in and I'll get ten 591 00:44:55.599 --> 00:45:00.400 or fifteen or twenty, thirty or forty five se in clips that I can 592 00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:06.760 use on social media. That's all AI driven. Super, super powerful example 593 00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:10.920 of how ai can be used for be to be companies, because these tools 594 00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:16.159 make our jobs easier and it's not going to take away the jobs of marketers. 595 00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:20.559 It's going to make us more efficient. It's going to allow us to 596 00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:22.320 do a heck of a lot more than we're able to do today if we're 597 00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:27.159 doing all those things manually. I like that optimism. And we know we're 598 00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:31.440 not in just a content creation space anymore. We're in a need for distribution 599 00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:36.280 space, and so it will, like lately, is helpful and coming alongside 600 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.400 there. We're okay, I've created this piece of content, I've poured my 601 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:45.119 effort in my work into it. Let's make sure this is properly distributed and 602 00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:49.159 put before people. So as a great example. Are there any negatives, 603 00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:52.480 as you see what's happening with algorithms and AI, that really stand out to 604 00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:59.079 you, David? Unfortunately, yes, I I'm a very, very pessimistic 605 00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:05.559 about the polarizing nature of social media algorithms, especially facebook. There's dangers with 606 00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:07.480 all the algorithms, but facebook, I believe, is by far the most 607 00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:15.039 dangerous, because facebook is tuned to get you to stay as long as possible 608 00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:22.440 on the facebook network and they've figured out that anger gets you to stay on 609 00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:30.320 the network longer and therefore it's tuned to show you things that are likely to 610 00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:36.559 make you angry and it drives polarization here in this country. It's the red 611 00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:42.679 team against the blue team. It creates things like people fighting over whether back 612 00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:46.800 scenes are safe and effective or not. It drives things like the events of 613 00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:52.480 January sixth, and these things are really, really dangerous. And so I 614 00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:58.000 believe actually the facebook algorithm is one of the most destructive technologies ever invented. 615 00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:00.480 I really do. I think it's that bad. There's two billion people on 616 00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:06.079 facebook around the world using it on a very regular basis, and that many 617 00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:09.760 of those people become susceptible to conspiracy theories and they don't even know it because 618 00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:14.320 of the way the algorithm works. If all of the people you interact with 619 00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:19.679 on facebook are talking about a particular conspiracy theory, you naturally think that everyone 620 00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:22.039 believe, everyone knows this is true. I've seen it on facebook Wateryson. 621 00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:28.320 So yeah, and and I believe this is a very, very, very 622 00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:31.480 destructive for all of humanity. And you know, I don't know what we 623 00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:36.320 can do about it. FACEBOOK is a private company. They can essentially do 624 00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:40.320 what they want. All of the social networks have been. When they're brought 625 00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:45.519 in front of Congress here in this country or or when they're talking about how 626 00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:52.719 their systems work, they all go back to the idea of free speech and 627 00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:58.400 the ability to say whatever people want and the fact that they have ways to 628 00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:02.519 remove content. That's not true. Okay, that's fine, but that's not 629 00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:09.360 the problem. They're focusing everyone's attention to on to something that's not the problem. 630 00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:15.480 The fundamental problem isn't that a few people are talking about conspiracy theories. 631 00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:23.480 The fundamental problem is that the social media technology is spreading that like wildfire. 632 00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:27.639 And but they don't want that to be the debate. They want the debate 633 00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:31.679 to be we're dealing with the problem of conspiracy theories, even though they're not 634 00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:35.639 really doing a great job at that either. They want that to be the 635 00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.079 debate. They don't want the debate to be around the algorithm and the technology. 636 00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:43.719 So I think that's a challenge and don't know how we can solve it. 637 00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:46.719 But I believe that's a huge challenge. The pace at which misinformation spreads 638 00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:52.760 to is so much faster, and so it's this thing that, while there's 639 00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:58.719 so much great connection that can happen online, the the speed at which we 640 00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:02.559 can spread misinformation without knowing it is we have to get that under control and 641 00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:07.239 it'll be interesting to see how we go about that. I find it interesting, 642 00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:08.760 and we mentioned this right off the top, so maybe this is coming 643 00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:14.159 full circle, but with Elon Musk has purchase of twitter, one of the 644 00:49:14.199 --> 00:49:17.840 things he has been talking about is this idea of being able to really tell 645 00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:22.239 what's a human what's about, and I think that's going to be a fascinating 646 00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:28.559 conversation moving forward as well. As Ai is more involved in our lives, 647 00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:32.559 how we interact on in line can be dictated without knowing it. We're interacting 648 00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:37.519 with bots and we're interacting with all sorts of misinformation. So if we can 649 00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:39.159 get that under control, not saying musk will do it, but I think 650 00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:45.360 that's a question that we're all asking. I'm very optimistic that if he can 651 00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:47.599 solve that problem on twitter that that would be a big step. I mean 652 00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:52.199 there's a moody stand millions of fake, fake accounts on twitter. There's millions 653 00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:54.960 of millions of robot based accounts on twitter and one of the things he's been 654 00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:00.199 talking about is that every twitter account's going to be need to be verified as 655 00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:02.000 being a human. Yeah, if he can pull it off, I'm all 656 00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:05.920 for it. I think that would be go a long, long long way 657 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:08.800 to solving the problem of some of the negative aspects of twitter. So I'm 658 00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:14.039 rooting for him to be successful around that. You and me both well, 659 00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:19.280 David. It has been such an honor to have you here on Bob Growth 660 00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:23.480 with us, and congratulations again on this eighth addition. For people that want 661 00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:27.360 to stay connected to you, tell us what's the best way to do that. 662 00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:30.679 We've mentioned twitter a number of times, but where sh your people connect? 663 00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:36.079 So I'm DM Scott, DMSCOTT on twitter, same hand, on instagram. 664 00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:38.119 You can easily find me on the other social networks and you can usually 665 00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:42.960 easily find me on google. One of this the chapters in the new roles 666 00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:46.400 of marketing mprs about search engine optimization and I always tell people when you're thinking 667 00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:51.719 of a new company name, product name, book name, always, always, 668 00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:54.000 always, check the search engines to make sure if you can own that 669 00:50:54.039 --> 00:50:58.400 book title, which I've written twelve books. In every case we've done that 670 00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:05.599 and my name is David Merman Scott. Merriman is my middle name. More 671 00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:09.119 than twenty years ago I started to use my middle name professionally because I'm the 672 00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:16.199 only David Merman Scott and in the entire world nice, that's good boat load 673 00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:20.639 of David Scott. So there's a David Scott who walked on the moon and 674 00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:23.440 with a Paula fifteen. There's a David Scott who's an iron man triathlon champion, 675 00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:28.559 there's a David Scott who's a member of Congress from the state of Georgia. 676 00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:32.400 I couldn't compete as David Scott, but as David Merman Scott I'm the 677 00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:36.800 only one on the planet. So you have the simple question how can people 678 00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:40.239 reach me? But it's actually a new rule. that new rule is always 679 00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:45.519 make sure you test any name that you're going to use. In fact, 680 00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:51.039 a little personal note here, Ben g, if I may. My daughter 681 00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:58.400 and her husband had my first grandchild four days ago and I'm so wonderful. 682 00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:04.760 Thank you. Her name is Sarah Moon Gooley Scott and in any way that 683 00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:07.840 you look at it, just take her first name, Sora. Sora in 684 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:10.960 her last name, Gooley Scott, which is the last name, my last 685 00:52:12.039 --> 00:52:15.239 name, Scott, my son in law's last name Goolay. They put it 686 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:19.440 together when they got married. She's the only Sarah Gooley Scott in the entire 687 00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:23.119 world. So I don't know that she did it because of me. I 688 00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:28.159 don't think she did, but hey, brand new child born in the world, 689 00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:34.159 unique on the web. Go by the URL now already done well. 690 00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:37.920 It's been great to have you here with us today, David. Thank you 691 00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:40.960 so much for spending time and stop and buy and now we know this conversation 692 00:52:42.039 --> 00:52:44.960 is going to help fuel growth and innovation for so many of our B to 693 00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:47.559 be marketers that are listening. My pleasure, Benji. Really appreciate you having 694 00:52:47.599 --> 00:52:52.239 me on for our listeners. If you have yet to follow the show, 695 00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:55.000 we would encourage you to do that on whatever podcast platform you listen to this 696 00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:59.199 on. Connect with me on Linkedin. Just search Benji block over there. 697 00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:01.159 Would love to chat with you about marketing, about business, about life. 698 00:53:01.239 --> 00:53:16.760 Keep doing work that matters. Will be back real soon with another episode. 699 00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:20.880 Be Tob growth is brought to you by the team at sweet fish media. 700 00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:23.679 Here at sweet fish we produce podcast for some of the most innovative brands in 701 00:53:23.719 --> 00:53:29.280 the world, and we help them turn those podcasts into Microvideos linkedin content, 702 00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:32.480 blog posts and more. We're on a mission to produce every leader's favorite show. 703 00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:37.119 Want more information, visit sweet PHISH MEDIACOM