Transcript
WEBVTT
1
00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:16.800
Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth, coming
2
00:00:16.839 --> 00:00:20.039
to you from just outside Austin,
Texas. I'm your host, Benjie Block,
3
00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:23.359
and with me today I have rex
and emily. Rex are is our
4
00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:27.960
VP of revenue at sweet fish,
emily our creative content lead. And you
5
00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:30.879
guys are like, where's Dan?
Well, he actually just had a baby,
6
00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:35.280
so shout out to Dan and his
family. Congratulations there and we are
7
00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:39.479
so glad that he gets to spend
some time away and with the new the
8
00:00:39.479 --> 00:00:43.000
new baby and with his wife.
So all right, here's what's up for
9
00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:47.439
today. In about ten minutes we
will share a featured conversation, a chat
10
00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:51.560
that I had with David Merriman Scott. He's the author of the new rules
11
00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:56.119
of marketing and PR fascinating conversation.
Just came out with his eighth addition,
12
00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:00.479
and so we have a lot to
dive into there. But like we do
13
00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:03.679
Monday's, Wednesdays and Fridays, we're
here for about a ten minute conversation,
14
00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:07.439
something that the three of us are
seeing around marketing, something that kind of
15
00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:11.760
got our interest levels up. And
today, Emily, it's your turn,
16
00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:12.799
so I turn it over to you. What are you paying attention to in
17
00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:19.239
marketing right now? Yeah, so
today I'm bringing a blog from Seth Goden
18
00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:22.120
and I'll just read a short part
of it. He says marketing is the
19
00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:25.959
work of helping people get what they've
wanted all along. It's about establishing the
20
00:01:25.959 --> 00:01:29.799
conditions for a small group of people
to eagerly spread the word and build connection.
21
00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:32.439
And then this line, I think
is pretty key and what I want
22
00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:36.799
to talk about. He says taking
attention versus storytelling and service. Sometimes it
23
00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:40.760
feels like the short cuts and deep
personalization and scale are the only option.
24
00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:44.319
Then a great marketing project comes along
and we're reminded that in fact we can
25
00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:49.560
do work we're proud of. So
the main topic here is the Hustle of
26
00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:55.000
marketing if you're just trying to take
attention or if you're being thoughtful with storytelling.
27
00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:57.480
And this is a conversation we have
a lot at sweet fish and it
28
00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:04.599
reminded me of thinking through brand awareness
or brand affinity, thinking through a lot
29
00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:08.120
of people ask how often they should
be posting and there's a difference of opinion
30
00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:13.960
there whether it should be put out
as much content as you can or hold
31
00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:16.520
the reins a little bit and be
thoughtful about it. So we're on this
32
00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:21.120
journey to learn how to tell better
stories, how to train our host and
33
00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:25.000
telling better stories instead of just putting
out more content and trying to take attention.
34
00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:28.919
And this is something I see on
is working on social every day is
35
00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:30.520
there's a lot of times where I
have these ideas and like Oh, I
36
00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:34.319
should, I should put this out
there, and then I have to think,
37
00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:38.280
but is it beneficial it? Does
it actually help people? So,
38
00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:40.599
yeah, what do you guys think
about this idea of putting out a ton
39
00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:46.479
of content just for the sake of
attention versus storytelling that line. Sometimes it
40
00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:51.639
feels like the short cuts and deep
personalization and scale are the only option and
41
00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:54.080
then a great marketing project comes along
and we're reminded that in fact, we
42
00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:57.319
can do work we're proud of.
I'm like, Oh, like, let's
43
00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:01.240
read that like five times for people. But you need that shot in the
44
00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:05.560
arm right because I don't think we
live there, because it's our job.
45
00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:08.120
So you're never going to just only
operate from that space. You're always going
46
00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:13.800
to have that push and pull.
So I appreciate his sentiment and it's almost
47
00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:15.199
like you want a leader that's going
to nudge you back in that direction,
48
00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:19.639
and we want to be those people
as well that like as much as we
49
00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:23.840
can. We don't just put it
out for the sake of like attention and
50
00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:29.280
like a flash in the PAN type
marketing campaign or social push. So to
51
00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:30.879
me, I'm with you on this. It's just so hard, when you're
52
00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:35.919
like in the Daytoday, not to
go to the route of just gotta meet
53
00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:38.120
this quota, got to do this
thing, and so I feel I feel
54
00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:43.120
this a lot. Yeah, listen, I think you know marketings and art
55
00:03:43.159 --> 00:03:46.719
and a science. There's the two
facets to marketing in every bit of marketing
56
00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:50.719
that we do. I think the
hard thing is that some people lean in
57
00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:53.759
one direction and neither direction is wrong. You have to have both. So,
58
00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:58.680
you know, let's say we lean
more towards the the science, or
59
00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:01.680
like the we just need a certain
amount of work, because we know that
60
00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:04.120
the math plays out there, like
if we just do a certain amount of
61
00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:06.879
work, you can convert this number
of people and we start to like really
62
00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:11.240
focus on the tinkering part of it. But the problem is if you've you
63
00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:15.599
lean way too far towards the art
side. We do really like creative work
64
00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:18.000
we're proud of, but it doesn't
necessarily move the needle because we haven't thought
65
00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:23.680
about how it impacts people from a
psychology standpoint or from a conversion standpoint.
66
00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:27.120
So, like, I think it's
it's hard to strike a balance, and
67
00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:30.920
it starts with at the very highest
levels, how do we talk about marketing
68
00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:38.560
and building awareness with executive team?
Like we have to agree what we think
69
00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:42.240
marketing looks like for our company before
we can say, okay, well then,
70
00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:45.079
what channels and what types of programs
were going to build out, and
71
00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:47.199
then how are we going to tactically
execute? We end up talking a lot
72
00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.800
about the tactical execution, but like
we're not really deciding at the very highest
73
00:04:50.839 --> 00:04:56.920
levels and getting an alignment that okay, you know, we want to do
74
00:04:57.360 --> 00:05:00.879
great creative work and we're going to
also work on conversions. Like we end
75
00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:04.319
up just we end up getting pushed
around. I think that's ultimately what happens.
76
00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:06.519
We talked about a lot about having, you know, marketing, having
77
00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:10.720
a seat at the table, and
if it doesn't, then marketing gets told
78
00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:14.279
what it's going to accomplish, and
those are non marketers telling marketers want to
79
00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:16.279
accomplish. They have no idea what
is even possible, because we're not pushing
80
00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:19.000
back. So let's say, if
you have a set of table great,
81
00:05:19.079 --> 00:05:23.240
use that seat to set expectations correctly. If you don't have a seat of
82
00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:26.399
the table, push back. This
is where, you know, Dave Gerhart
83
00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:30.240
says you shouldn't work for a Seeo
who doesn't get marketing like it's some degree
84
00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:31.920
that's true, but to some degree
it's not. Because you you have the
85
00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:35.199
right to say, actually, here's
how it works, here's what's going to
86
00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:38.879
happen if we do that, if
we just put out a bunch of commodity
87
00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:42.279
content, if we're just throwing stuff
out there and hoping it sticks. Yeah,
88
00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:45.199
sometimes we're going to get a hit, but usually it's going to fall
89
00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:46.879
flat. And what does that do
over time? It devalues our brand,
90
00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:51.480
it makes people less excited to hear
from us. It just decreases our value
91
00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:55.720
in the market place over time.
So start to the top doesn't mean we
92
00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:58.240
can always get there. So sometimes
we have to push upward and kind of
93
00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:02.560
educate upward. It's interesting because I
did an interview with Steve Harder, who's
94
00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:06.279
over at he's the CMO at jot
form and he's talking about science, art
95
00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:11.720
and Voodoo of marketing, and I
think what happens is you get like the
96
00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:15.879
scientific minded marketer who goes really into
like if we just do this, then
97
00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:19.279
we'll get this type of you know, and it's all science to them,
98
00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:23.879
and you can hit Voodoo even if
you just lean into science. And then
99
00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:28.240
on the art side you could create
something so creative that you strike that magic
100
00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:31.319
moment right and then, because you've
seen the magic work on either side,
101
00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:33.920
you start defending your side like all
see, it's in the science, or
102
00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:39.079
Oh see, it's in the art, and it's like it's actually this interesting
103
00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:42.879
mix where I think it's multiple teammates
that have a leaning, and then also
104
00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:48.079
your internal ability to go okay,
where how do I make sure I continue
105
00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:51.240
to have output even when I don't
have that level of inspiration? That's what
106
00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:58.959
makes US professionals, right, but
also I'm actively seeking inspiration that leads to
107
00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:03.879
like a good content and better,
more creative projects, not just well,
108
00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:06.879
I hit this mark or I do
this because we've have this goal on a
109
00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:12.240
piece of paper or in a sauna
or whatever. So I love the the
110
00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:15.759
science and art and Magic Talk of
marketing. Because it's it's all three and
111
00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:19.639
maybe someone will add another one.
Maybe there's something we're missing. Still,
112
00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:24.240
emily, any thoughts? I know
we kind of like started just going because
113
00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:28.240
this is a great topic to bring
but I'd love to hear anything you're thinking
114
00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:31.519
over there. Yeah, well,
well, it seems like in this article
115
00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:38.040
he's pitting like storytelling and quality versus
like scaling content, and I think that
116
00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:42.639
there's definitely a way that you can
be strategic about both things. Like if
117
00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:46.199
you start off with a good piece
of content, you can repurpose it and
118
00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:50.319
then that's how you scale it in
so many different ways, so it doesn't
119
00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:55.040
have to be one or the other
necessarily. And also, adding to that,
120
00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:58.040
like you said, you if you
have a team where you have someone
121
00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:01.240
who's more of a analytical thinker,
who's more into the data side of it,
122
00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.680
and then you have someone who's more
to the creative side of it,
123
00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:09.480
that's like a that's a powerful match. So I think that's really important to
124
00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:13.720
have people checking each other on certain
things and saying, well, maybe we
125
00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:16.199
should think about it this way.
But I love that idea of like actually
126
00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:22.920
scaling quality, so it's like quantity
and quality. You find what works and
127
00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:26.399
you put out more of that or
you break it down into other pieces for
128
00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:31.720
social in particular. But I'm wondering, Benjie, since your role is as
129
00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:37.759
podcast hosts, like how does that
look for you, trying to find the
130
00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:41.639
meat of an episode and the quality
of it but having to produce so many
131
00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:46.080
episodes? Yeah, it's just a
constant tension and a conversation that we're always
132
00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:48.519
having. Like I enjoy getting to
talk to this many people, but I
133
00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:52.559
also realize in like with the amount
of episodes we come out with, it's
134
00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:58.480
just it's just a constant tension.
You know, I have to like some
135
00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.279
days I don't want to show up
for this many conversations and other days it's
136
00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:03.639
like okay, like I'm in the
flow and like like let's just do this
137
00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:07.440
thing. It'll be great. So
to me, like the back end is
138
00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.519
where I'm just continuing to try to
get better. I think that's where we're
139
00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:16.240
a lot of the conversation is is
on how do we pull just the gold
140
00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:20.000
out of this conversation we had and
really give that to our audience in the
141
00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:22.799
best way and to the person that
took time out of their schedule to come
142
00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:28.840
on be to be growth, like
how do we equip them with personal assets
143
00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:31.000
that they can use that like look
good on them because they came and they
144
00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.799
shared their expertise and they said some
great stuff. Like want to set them
145
00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.600
up to win, you know.
So to me that's a big proponent of
146
00:09:37.639 --> 00:09:43.000
like great content is. You didn't
just put it up somewhere and it exists
147
00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:48.039
online now, but like you were
able to distribute it well and people are
148
00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:52.600
finding it and finding value from it
after a week instead of it just dying
149
00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:58.600
in the Linkedin Algorithm. But that'll
probably always be a battle. Right,
150
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:03.279
Bundie, that's interesting. You're talking
about something that like really hits on with
151
00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:05.159
me, emily, and I talk
a lot about this, like how we
152
00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:09.720
can do great work, we can
do work we're proud of, as Seth
153
00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:11.279
God and saying, but also it
can be like a tree that falls in
154
00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:15.480
the forest and no one hears it
right, like if it doesn't get picked
155
00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:18.960
up by the algorithm or if it
doesn't if we don't distribute it proper like
156
00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:22.679
we can do all this great work
and we can be really proud of something
157
00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.360
that just didn't perform, and ultimately
that makes us on successful marketers. So,
158
00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:28.879
like when we talk about content marketing, we don't just mean content,
159
00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.720
we mean content marketing, like you
actually have to market that asset. You
160
00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:33.519
have to get it into people's hands, like you were saying. People have
161
00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:39.159
to see it and find value in
it. It's not about US patting ourselves
162
00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:41.159
in the back and saying, yeah, we did our best job. It's
163
00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:45.159
about other people finding value. I
think that can be really hard because we
164
00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:48.879
we like we're sometimes stuck in this
mode of like we're just creating stuff to
165
00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:52.519
create stuff and we forget it's all
about the value that it creates, not
166
00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:54.840
having done it, not checking the
box. HMM. Well, I'M gonna
167
00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:58.000
start to wrap this thing up,
but I gotta say I think if I'm
168
00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:03.799
focused on anything right now, it's
really deep, like I love when someone
169
00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:09.799
writes a book or like a very
well detailed content piece and then all the
170
00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:11.559
stuff they can pull out of that
like that, to me, is basically
171
00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:16.600
the best strategy, if I'm looking
across like what I admire the most and
172
00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:18.960
what I feel like you can get
the most out of. You went really
173
00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:22.799
deep on a topic, you went
really far in so you have this wealth
174
00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:26.799
of knowledge and then you're able to
pull out all these insights and you can
175
00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.840
share those on Linkedin and you're not
like, Oh, here's this one post
176
00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.879
about this content piece I did,
but it's like here's some of the content
177
00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.919
from this larger piece I did,
and the more we can do that,
178
00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:39.840
I think you're valuing your audience because
you're giving them some of your insights,
179
00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:43.919
and you have so many insights because
you did deep research, and that's a
180
00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:48.919
really easy way to like carry your
strategy for a long time because you can
181
00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.960
talk on that topic over and over
again from different vantage points. So it's
182
00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:56.559
something I'm I'm paying attention to because
I think there's a lot of people doing
183
00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:00.919
it well and it fits really well
today because as we were talking to an
184
00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:07.120
author who has gone very deep on
the topic of marketing and PR and David
185
00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:13.360
Meureman Scott, author of new rules
of marketing and PR so let's dive into
186
00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:18.639
this featured conversation. No, you'll
enjoy it and we'll see you again tomorrow.
187
00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:24.200
Welcome back to be to be growth. Today I am joined by David
188
00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:30.919
Meerman Scott. He is marketing and
business growth speaker as well, as many
189
00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:33.240
of you will know, the author
of new rules of marketing and PR as
190
00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:37.720
well as the Wall Street Journal best
seller fanocracy. David, pleasure having you
191
00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:41.080
here on B tob growth with us. Hey, Benjie's super great to be
192
00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:46.360
here. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. So the new
193
00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:52.440
eighth addition of the new rules of
marketing in PR it has gone live and
194
00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:58.600
quite an achievement, and so congratulations
there, sir. Thank you. I
195
00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.200
mean it's a remarkable that it's the
eighth edition. I mean I when I
196
00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:07.240
was originally writing it, which was
back in two thousand and five and two
197
00:13:07.240 --> 00:13:09.919
thousand and six, I thought I
was hitting on some interesting ideas, but
198
00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:15.759
I never would have imagined that this
book would become what it has become.
199
00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:18.679
So, yeah, it's super exciting. Maybe we talked about that here in
200
00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:22.320
a minute. Let me ask you
this. What are some of the major
201
00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.559
updates that led to this eighth edition? Some of the things you're really focused
202
00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:30.759
on right now? I'm constantly doing
a couple of things of my updates,
203
00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:33.960
and it's roughly every two years.
The first thing I'm doing I read the
204
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.639
entire book again each time and I'm
looking at every story that I tell.
205
00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:43.879
The it's a very much a story
driven book and I'm looking at every story
206
00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:48.120
that I tell to make sure that's
the best story to illustrate that particular point
207
00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:52.919
and those that aren't go away,
and then I'm looking for new stories that
208
00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:58.000
make a ton of sense. So
in this addition I think I've got about
209
00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:01.639
twenty new stories. There's about fifty
or sixty in total in the book.
210
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:09.720
I'm also looking for new tools or
new ways to communicate that have either begun
211
00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.120
or have taken off since the last
edition. Example of this in the new
212
00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:20.200
edition are social audio apps like clubhouse
if, for example, which basically didn't
213
00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:24.840
exist when I was writing the seventh
edition a couple of years ago. So
214
00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:31.000
I'm constantly looking for those new examples
and new tools that I can write about
215
00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:37.200
interesting. So you're collecting these stories
and we'll talk about another couple maybe tools
216
00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:41.919
as well in this conversation. But
maybe highlight a story for us, one
217
00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:46.559
that really steps out to you from
this this addition, one of my favorite
218
00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:50.879
stories is around news jacking. So
newsjacking is a concept I invented more than
219
00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:56.559
a decade ago and it's the idea
that when you understand how a new story
220
00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:01.639
breaks and every new story always breaks
in a typical bell shaped curve. The
221
00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.759
news begins, it begins, it
takes off in excitement among the media and
222
00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:09.759
people and then at some point it
peaks and drops off. Doesn't matter what
223
00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:13.799
the new story is. That could
be over the course of a few hours,
224
00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:16.919
a few days or a few weeks, and the media is looking for
225
00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:22.879
experts to be able to quote in
the stories as they're breaking and if it's
226
00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:26.000
a new kind of story, they
don't know who is going to be the
227
00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:30.879
right person to quote. So,
for example, just two days ago,
228
00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:37.080
as we're recording this, it became
known that Elon Musk was successful in his
229
00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:41.399
bid to acquire twitter. And I
know a bit about twitter, I know
230
00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:45.440
a bit about Algorithm. So I
pushed out a blog post at that moment
231
00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:50.879
and I end up getting an interview
in tech crunch and I end I ended
232
00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:56.279
up being mentioned in Seth Goden's blog, seth being the most popular blogger in
233
00:15:56.360 --> 00:16:00.080
the world. Yep, just because
I was timely in that content in the
234
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.960
new rules of marketing and PR eighth
addition, I have a great example of
235
00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:11.240
news jacking success from a lawyer named
Russell Alexander. And what rust does is
236
00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:18.200
he focuses very much on family law, and so his expertise is he understands,
237
00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:22.720
in Toronto, in Canada, everything
there is to know about law,
238
00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.519
and so what he did was he
created the Covid nineteen and Family Law Information
239
00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:33.519
Center, and then that was a
great way to push his business out into
240
00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:37.600
the market place. He was seen
by hundreds and hundreds of people, some
241
00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:41.960
of the WHO's, some of whom
became clients, and many members of the
242
00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:47.039
media. He had actually hire five
new lawyers becoming because it became so popular.
243
00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:52.279
So that's a story that everyone can
relate to around your area of expertise.
244
00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:57.720
Another quick story comes from my friend
Shelly Palmer. Shelley is very much
245
00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:07.480
an expert in Bitcoin and other crypto
currencies. So he wrote an instant book
246
00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:14.960
and put it out on kindle's direct
publishing platform, KTP, which allows anybody
247
00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.880
to publish a book pretty much instantly. I mean two or three days your
248
00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:22.240
book can be out, and it
was right when crypto was taking off,
249
00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:30.039
and that book ended up becoming super
popular among all kinds of executives who needed
250
00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:36.759
to understand how crypto worked, and
he ended up then getting a bunch of
251
00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:42.240
new clients and he charges five figures
per month for his clients and generated a
252
00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:47.839
great, great deal of new revenue
for his business, very much a be
253
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:53.039
to be business, where he's targeting
large organizations and educates them around crypto.
254
00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:57.480
And it was because He created a
book at the exact moment it became,
255
00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:03.599
I think it still is, the
most popular book on Amazon that explains Crypto.
256
00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.240
So these are the ideas of newsjacking, but those are a couple of
257
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:10.319
cool examples that are in the new
book. Okay, so let's talk about
258
00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:14.440
newsjacking for a second. Specifically as
it pertains to be to be companies,
259
00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:18.640
there are some ways that we should
be spotting trends, or you think that
260
00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.799
be to be companies, in specifically
marketing teams, can take advantage of this
261
00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.880
idea of News Jack and if we
just have the eyes to see it hundred
262
00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:30.920
percent, it's fabulous for be to
be companies. So I always recommend people
263
00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:37.519
take a look using their mobile device
or their computer at Google news or an
264
00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:41.880
equivalent kind of news source, as
well as looking at twitter to find out
265
00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.319
what trending, what hashtags are trending, what stories are trending, and I
266
00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:52.880
recommend removing all personalization, because what
you're looking for is stories that break that
267
00:18:52.960 --> 00:19:00.000
you never saw coming, because that's
when a story will be like, oh
268
00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:03.599
my gosh, I never saw coming
that you on musk was going to potentially
269
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:08.519
buy twitter. Once he does,
the media is looking for expertise. I
270
00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:15.200
became that expertise. So in a
BETB company you've got expertise. You've got
271
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:19.359
expertise around the technology that you provide, you've got expertise around the markets you
272
00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:25.119
serve, and if there's an acquisition
in your industry, for example, or
273
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:30.279
if there's a new regulatory change in
your industry, for example, or if
274
00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:36.759
there's some kind of something happening around
big picture news, for example, you
275
00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:41.480
then have an expertise that the market
is looking for, and that is when
276
00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:45.440
you should create real time content.
That can be a blog post. That's
277
00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.480
how I've done it. You could
write a real quicki book. That's how
278
00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:53.319
Shelley Palmer dot did it. You
could create a tweet or another social media
279
00:19:53.400 --> 00:20:00.559
post using an appropriate Hashtag, and
that's actually how I ended up getting the
280
00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:06.599
tech crunch in curry, because the
reporter was following the Hashtags, and that
281
00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:10.599
is how, then you can end
up number one, getting interest in the
282
00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:15.119
media around your expertise, but you
also might end up making sales as a
283
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:19.200
result, because you're seen as the
expert, people seek you out and then
284
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.240
they might be interested in doing business
with you. Okay, so this is
285
00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:26.599
just an observation and you push back
if I am observing incorrectly. But with
286
00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:32.319
the ideas that you just provided for
newsjacking, it sounds like you would keep
287
00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:34.920
this in some sort of written form
or very visual form, but maybe not
288
00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:41.000
something like a podcast, if it
would have to be like that, alongside
289
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.799
a blog post, that alongside something
that's written, because there's something about,
290
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.240
at least in my mind, the
podcast medium, where it's too real time,
291
00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:52.720
where like I could just record on
my phone and then push it and
292
00:20:52.759 --> 00:20:55.519
someone have to go listen to it
to make me the expert, whereas they
293
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.079
could review written form. Is that
right? Am I on the right track
294
00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:02.880
there? I would look at it
slightly differently. Okay, when there's something
295
00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:07.039
that breaks in the news that you
never saw coming, you want to try
296
00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:11.440
to reach people for whom they don't
know who you are yet, if they
297
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:15.480
don't know you're the expert yet,
and you need to reach them in a
298
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:21.000
way that they're going to find you. So the nature of a podcast in
299
00:21:21.039 --> 00:21:26.039
particular, which was part of the
question you asked, is that generally you
300
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:27.880
have your followers, and you know
you have. You have tons of people
301
00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:33.759
who follow this podcast, which is
great, but unless one of them happens
302
00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:38.480
to be a reporter, they probably
won't listen to this episode in a timely
303
00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:44.720
manner. So you can still get
your ideas out into in the form of
304
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:48.480
a podcast or the form of a
youtube video or the form of another piece
305
00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:53.799
of non written content. That's totally
fine. You just need to make sure
306
00:21:55.119 --> 00:22:00.319
that in some way you're showing that
content to people in a way they can
307
00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:04.839
find it. So you could do
your podcast, great, but then send
308
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:11.000
through twitter or send through Linkedin or
send through other ways, using appropriate hashtags,
309
00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:15.880
using appropriate keywords that you push out, Hey, I've just done this
310
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:21.599
podcast. We just talked about,
for example, Elon Musk buying twitter,
311
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:23.839
we talked about the importance of the
Algorithm or whatever it is that you've just
312
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:29.519
done, and then make sure people
can see it on twitter, bounce back
313
00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:33.599
to then us into your podcast.
So the form of the content can be
314
00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:37.440
something other than written, but you
do need to make sure it gets into
315
00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:41.960
the search engine so it's able to
be found. Love it and it's so
316
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:48.359
interesting to think from first addition to
now. I mean that's what fifteen years
317
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:53.960
when we fifteen here? Fifteen years
since the first edition published, but nearly
318
00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:57.799
twenty since I started writing these ideas. Yeah, at that point twitter doesn't
319
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:04.079
exist, so the he and facebook
is definitely not widely accepted. Might just
320
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:07.880
be for students. So it was
only for students at that point when I
321
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:12.480
was first writing. Exactly. Okay, so you're highlighting something that has is
322
00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:17.240
available now, this idea of news
jacking. I wonder from that go all
323
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:21.799
the way back with me, David. First addition, what has had staying
324
00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:25.400
power? Something that you wrote about
then that you're going, okay, this
325
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:33.400
is a not so new rule anymore
and it's still extremely applicable today. So
326
00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:38.720
every edition from the very beginning,
what has not changed is the strategy.
327
00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:44.880
It's good. The strategy is when
you think about the new rules of marketing
328
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:47.720
and PR well, what are the
old rules? The old rules of marketing
329
00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:51.880
and PR prior to the Web,
were there are three ways to get noticed.
330
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:55.720
You could spend a lot of money
on advertising, you could advertise and
331
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:59.440
magazines, newspapers, television, radio
for be to be. For example,
332
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.680
you could advertised by booking space on
the trade show for and I'm not saying
333
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:10.039
that's wrong, but that's the only
way you could get your word out there.
334
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:12.720
or You could convince the media to
write about you some way, and
335
00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:17.559
many be to be companies spend tens
of thousands of dollars per month on a
336
00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:21.920
PR agency. or You could have
a massive sales team to go and knock
337
00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:26.039
on doors to or pick up the
phone and cold call to try to sell
338
00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:30.640
your be to be products. Those
are still true and I would ask how
339
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:33.960
is that working for you? If
you're using those techniques right, if you're
340
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:40.640
spending money to advertise in the trade
publication for your your industry, be to
341
00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:44.200
be companies of traditionally done, or
you're spending a whole lot of money to
342
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:48.960
to have your company exhibit on Trade
Show for if it's working, that's awesome,
343
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.359
but for many companies it's not working
so well. So those are the
344
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:56.160
old rules. The new rules are
that you can using the tools of the
345
00:24:56.200 --> 00:25:02.640
web, social media, your own
website, email, newsletters, blogs,
346
00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:07.000
like we're doing right now, a
podcast. You can do these things and
347
00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:12.079
reach your buyers directly and for free. Yes, it takes time, but
348
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:17.359
it doesn't cost anything, and that's
the new rules, and that has not
349
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:22.839
changed in any way over the past
nearly twenty years, fifteen years since the
350
00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:30.200
first edition was published. It's so
interesting because that hasn't changed yet in some
351
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:34.319
ways it's been so sped up and
it's gotten more and more noisy. There's
352
00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:40.119
a lot of content pollution. There's
a lot of voices now, even in
353
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:44.319
a BETB space that can tend to
be behind be TOC marketers. We're seeing
354
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.519
this trend of content and just for
the sake of content, just for the
355
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.880
sake of rinking, just for the
sake of being and having a presence on
356
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:56.960
social how does that change your mindset
as how we have to come to the
357
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:02.599
table with the type of content we're
creating and maybe that shifts our mindset slightly
358
00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:07.160
differently in the as we produce the
work we do. I think were the
359
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:11.559
most important thing around mindsetence. I
love the way you frame the question.
360
00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:15.960
Is that the vast majority of be
to be companies, and I've worked in
361
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:19.079
be tob M. I spent fifteen
years doing be to be marketing and sales.
362
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:26.519
I worked for financial information technology businesses
like Thompson Reuters and Dowd Jones,
363
00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:30.119
and we sold to banks and securities
companies and government agencies. So I get
364
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:34.519
it. I've been there myself fifteen
years, and what be to be companies
365
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:38.119
have traditionally done and what they still
do, and I see it every single
366
00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:44.000
day, is they focus on their
products and services. And Yeah, they're
367
00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:48.519
creating content, but it's all about
their products and services. I think what
368
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:55.000
we need to do is completely shift
our mindset and think about it instead of
369
00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:59.880
what are the problems that are buyers
face? How can we understand them?
370
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:03.720
Them in the form of what I
call buy our personas, and there's ALD
371
00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:08.799
chapter on buy our personas, the
idea that if you understand very deeply the
372
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:15.400
problems and the challenges that every buyer
has, you can then create the kind
373
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:19.200
of content that will help them to
solve their problems, to educate and inform
374
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:26.680
them, and then from there,
as they become educated, they become your
375
00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.200
fan. And then once they become
your fan, when they need a practice
376
00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:34.240
service like that, they know who
to contact. I'll give you an example
377
00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:38.440
of a company I've worked with since
the very beginning of this book. In
378
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:45.039
two thousand and seven I joined the
hub spot advisory board and I've been on
379
00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:48.440
the hub spot advisory board since the
very beginning, advising. Initially, it
380
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:52.559
would there are eight people in the
company when I joined, advising the CO
381
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:56.200
founders, Brian Halligaan Dur mess shot
directly, and now they're I don't know,
382
00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:00.559
four thousand employees, something like that
still working with them. And we
383
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:06.519
focused on just that. We focused
on understanding our buyers. We did buy
384
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:11.200
our persona research developed content for buy
our personas going back fifteen years ago.
385
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:17.039
Yeah, created a great website,
created a blog, created a youtube channel,
386
00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:22.039
podcast and now they've got multiples of
these channels. They have millions and
387
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:26.640
millions of fans at hub spot and
many of them don't buy anything. The
388
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:32.119
vast majority of them actually don't buy
anything, but they become fans of the
389
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:36.839
content that hub spot delivers, which
is all free. And then from there
390
00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:41.319
some of them say, Oh,
I need a crm system, I need
391
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.559
a marketing automation software system, I
need a platform like hub spot delivers.
392
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:49.839
I trust them. They have helped
me over the years. That's the company
393
00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:53.039
I want to do business with.
And they've been doing great. They're growing
394
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:57.680
every single quarter and they went public
in two thousand and fourteen and it's been
395
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:02.680
fabulous to see. Yeah, no
arguing there. They have done fantastic for
396
00:29:02.720 --> 00:29:06.640
themselves and it's fun to watch as
they've branched out into podcasting specifically and having
397
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:10.799
a hub spot network of shows.
It's an interesting play that I've been paying
398
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:15.359
attention to it it is and there
they're, my poster child over the entire
399
00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:21.680
length of the book of a company
that's adopted these I and I'm not taking
400
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:25.119
the credit they did the work,
but that have adopted all of the ideas
401
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:30.839
in the new rules of marketing p
are to become a fabulous example of a
402
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.200
tremendous success in the B Tob World. One thing we should mention is since
403
00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:41.400
the seventh addition, something that's major
that's transpired has been this covid pandemic,
404
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:45.559
and yes, that has brought on
a lot of transitions or sped up some
405
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:51.759
things. Right. What do you
think, because of Covid specifically, have
406
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:56.000
been those largest effects in the things
that were now seeing, as specifically as
407
00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.720
it pertains to marketing and PR so
the main thing I've seen, and it's
408
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:07.519
so interesting to me and so important, I think, is that virtual events
409
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:12.759
and the use of video, like
we're doing right now. Yep, has
410
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:19.480
sped up during covid because we couldn't
meet people facetoface, we couldn't have the
411
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:25.079
trade show, we couldn't have the
meetings with clients. So video has become
412
00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:29.599
super important. I mean just me
and this. I'm doing this presentation from
413
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:33.720
my home studio where I've got a
bunch of different cameras that I was going
414
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:34.440
to show you and I didn't turn
it on. I've got a bunch of
415
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:40.759
different cameras set up and it's great. It's a great way to communicate and
416
00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:47.759
so, interestingly, I did a
bunch of research about the neuroscience about why
417
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:53.920
this is true, the neuroscience behind
video as a way of communicating. So
418
00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:59.200
there's actually two forms of neuroscience.
The first form of neuroscience is the idea
419
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:07.240
of proximity. It turns out when
we humans get to know other human beings,
420
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:11.240
that's how we become fans, because
all humans want to be part of
421
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:15.079
a tribe of likeminded people. So, going back to hub spot, they've
422
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:21.680
built a tribe of likeminded people and
they can get twenty four pre pandemic twenty
423
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:27.720
fivezero people in person to their inbound
event every year in Boston, and I've
424
00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:33.400
presented at that conference every single year
since it started. And people are like
425
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:37.240
minded. They're there because they want
to be together with people who are just
426
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:41.799
like them, the same reason that
I'm a huge fan of the grateful dead
427
00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:44.880
and go I've been to eighty five
grateful dead concerts. I go to grateful
428
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.960
dead concerts. I I'm with my
friends. When I'm Surfing, I'm surfing
429
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:52.720
with my friends, my tribe of
like minded people. And so it turns
430
00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:59.240
out one neuroscientist named Edward t hall
identified the different levels of proximity. Further
431
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:04.680
than twelve feet is called public space. We know people in our public space.
432
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:07.920
We don't actively track them, we
know they're there. You know,
433
00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:09.720
if you're walking down the street you
see with someone approaching, you know they're
434
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:15.039
there. Once they get inside of
twelve feet, between twelve feet and four
435
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:19.759
feet, that's called social space and
we begin to track those people. If
436
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.720
you walk into a room, let's
say you walk into a cocktail party,
437
00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:28.200
your immediately looking around for people who
are within twelve feet of you, who
438
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:31.279
you might know, or you're also
looking for enemies. That goes back tens
439
00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:36.200
of thousands of years. It's it's
in our brain. It's hardwired. We
440
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:38.960
want to know. Is Our tribe
here, because that's when we're safe and
441
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:44.839
comfortable, or are these people,
people we don't know and there's potentially danger?
442
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:49.200
We can't help but feel that way. Inside of four feet is where
443
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:53.839
the most powerful human connections happen,
positive or negative, and that's called personal
444
00:32:53.920 --> 00:33:01.440
space. So the second idea around
neurosciences the idea of mirror neurons. Mirror
445
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:07.079
neurons are the part of our brains
that fire when we see somebody doing something
446
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:09.559
as if we're doing it our self, which I'll demonstrate for you now.
447
00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:16.160
I brought a leman and I have
a slice of lemon here, and so
448
00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:21.599
if I were to take a bite
of this lemon, my brain will fire.
449
00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:25.839
But what's interesting is, because of
mirror neurons, your brain will fire
450
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:30.200
two so, even if you're listening
and not watching this, you can imagine
451
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:34.160
what I'm doing now. I'm holding
a lemon in one my left hand.
452
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:37.039
I'm only a slice of lemon in
my right hand. I'm now going to
453
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:42.240
take a bite of the slice of
lemon and it's wow, it's super powerful.
454
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.240
It makes my eyes close. My
eyes are actually watering a little bit.
455
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:47.400
My mouth puckers up. I can
feel it on my tongue and on
456
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:52.400
my lips. My brain is firing
like crazy because I taken a bite of
457
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:55.720
this lemon. Bengie, your brain
is firing. Tell me right, that's
458
00:33:55.759 --> 00:34:00.720
exactly right. I feel it in
the back of my jaw. You're tasting
459
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:05.079
that lemon. How interesting is that? That's mirror neurons. Yeah, holding
460
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:14.599
those two concepts together, the power
of being physically close to somebody, together
461
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:21.719
with the power of mirror neurons,
means that when you see somebody on video
462
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:25.719
and you have a conversation, your
brain and my brain are firing as if
463
00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:30.960
we're in the same room having this
conversation, perhaps over a glass of wine
464
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:37.360
or perhaps over a coffee. And
that's a very, very powerful thing and
465
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:40.159
it is exactly the reason why why
you feel you know a movie or a
466
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:45.440
television star, even though intellectually you
know you've never met them. You and
467
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:50.119
I right now intellectually know we're not
in the same room. I'm in outside
468
00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:53.000
of Boston, and and so you
know you could be watching this, you
469
00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:57.440
could be in Australia, you know, miles and miles and miles away,
470
00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:00.960
but you can still feel your brain
as if we're in the same room together,
471
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:07.000
which is exactly why virtual events have
become so interesting to me and it's
472
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:12.920
also exactly why video has taken off
during the pandemic. You asked me a
473
00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:16.880
really simple question about what the covid
pandemic has done for the new rules of
474
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:22.159
marketing in PR and I had to
jump into the narrow science behind this because
475
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:25.239
to me it's fascinating. It's all
around the power of video, which is
476
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:30.280
not going away. Yes, we're
going to begin doing in person conferences.
477
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:34.079
I'm booked for one and next week, I think. And yes, in
478
00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:38.320
person sales meetings from be tob companies, in person customer meetings with be to
479
00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:43.800
be companies are definitely going to begin
taking off the ladder half of twenty two
480
00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:47.159
and into two thousand and twenty three. But video is here to stay.
481
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:52.880
Hey, be to be growth listeners, we want to hear from you.
482
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:55.480
In fact, we will pay you
for it. Just head over to B
483
00:35:55.599 --> 00:36:01.079
TOB growth podcom and complete a short
survey about the show to enter for a
484
00:36:01.159 --> 00:36:06.280
chance to win two hundred and fifty
dollars. Plus the first fifty participants will
485
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:09.440
receive twenty five dollars as our way
of saying thank you so much one more
486
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:15.920
time. That's be tob growth podcom, letter B, number two letter be
487
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:22.159
growth podcom. One entry per person
must be an active listener of the show
488
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:29.639
to enter and look forward to hearing
from you. Yes, we're going to
489
00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:32.480
begin doing in person conferences. I'm
booked for one and next week, I
490
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:37.320
think. And yes, in person
sales meetings from be tob companies, in
491
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:43.559
person customer meetings with be to be
companies are definitely going to begin taking off
492
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:46.440
the ladder half of twenty two and
into two thousand and twenty three. But
493
00:36:46.840 --> 00:36:51.079
video is here to stay. I
think this fascinating road that you just took
494
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:54.519
us down. Let me play student
for a second here and ask, because
495
00:36:55.320 --> 00:37:01.920
where I go is this space of
while I feel connected to you right now,
496
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:06.280
David, and you can use the
lemon example and we can go okay,
497
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:12.280
you sense this. There's the the
marketing side or the public side.
498
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:15.679
That's great. You can connect people
all over the world, but I think
499
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:20.920
this at the same time we're navigating
a conversation right now internally, within work
500
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:24.480
and within job jobs, where we're
going. Okay, we all feel somewhat
501
00:37:24.519 --> 00:37:30.519
disconnected, even though we're on these
video calls, even though we've figure it
502
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:35.519
out ways to use zoom more efficiently
or try to have a culture for our
503
00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:37.840
institutions. You know, while we're
all working from home and can hear our
504
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:42.760
dogs and babies in the background,
we can we close our laptops. That
505
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:46.920
sense of disconnection is also something many
are navigating. How do you see those
506
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:52.280
two both Yay, we can be
connected from anywhere and Nay, we can
507
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:57.760
be connected from anywhere but not so
connected. How do you see those playing
508
00:37:57.800 --> 00:38:01.920
together or where do you see that
going as you think of how we navigate
509
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:07.800
that? Well, I think that
it's not necessarily an either or kind of
510
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:12.679
thing and I think that getting back
to the things that we all loved to
511
00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:20.719
do pre pandemic, going to the
conference, meeting with customers over dinner or
512
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:24.599
any of those sorts of activities,
or having a meeting in your office with
513
00:38:24.639 --> 00:38:30.280
your colleagues in the company that you
work for. I don't believe that those
514
00:38:30.280 --> 00:38:37.400
should go away because we can use
video for some of those activities. I
515
00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:42.440
think the hybrid world, or a
world where both of them coexist is the
516
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:45.000
best way for a be to be
company to be thinking about this. You
517
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:50.960
know what that means for work.
Might be in the office, three days
518
00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:54.000
off, two days or something like
that. Or in the case of people
519
00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:58.679
who live remotely, you got to
you got to come to headquarters a couple
520
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:01.559
weeks out of the year. What
it means for selling is sure, you
521
00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:07.039
can do some selling over zoom,
but getting to meet that customer, just
522
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:12.280
like the old days, facetoface over
a meal, absolutely important. Getting your
523
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:19.159
customers together for a customer conference once
a year critically important. Physically together critically
524
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:24.760
important. Going to the conference and
being seen and interacting with existing and potential
525
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:29.320
customers. That's not going away.
That's also going to be very important.
526
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:35.960
So I think it's a matter of
using video effectively at the same time that
527
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:39.599
we get back to the things that
have worked traditionally for for dozens and dozens
528
00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:43.840
of years with be to be companies. Yep, and along those lines.
529
00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:47.400
Then for you you're going with virtual
events and I would agree. I don't
530
00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:51.719
see that going away at all.
You're going to have physical events come back,
531
00:39:51.800 --> 00:39:54.559
but almost all those events are going
to have some sort of online video
532
00:39:54.599 --> 00:40:00.760
format that goes right alongside where people
are joining from everywhere and anywhere. I
533
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:05.920
think that's probably true and I think
that's what's important to be consider if that's
534
00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:09.119
a thing that you're you're going to
be doing with your be to be company
535
00:40:09.119 --> 00:40:17.280
for everyone who's listening in is don't
just have video cameras record the inperson component
536
00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:22.360
of the speech, of the presentations. Make it a true hybrid. A
537
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:28.840
true hybrid take the best of of
the virtual environment together with the best of
538
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:30.599
the in person and arm and I'll
give you an example of what I mean
539
00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:37.400
by that. You can have a
keynote speech, for example, where there
540
00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:44.280
somebody delivering a keynote that can be
filmed and broadcast, and then you could
541
00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:51.599
have the inperson audience do a q
and a with the speaker while the virtual
542
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:58.440
audience takes a break. Then the
speaker runs to a room when the inperson
543
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:06.920
audience takes their coffee break and then
the speaker does a virtual Qa with on
544
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:12.320
video with the virtual audience where the
virtual audience can ask questions. That's a
545
00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:16.559
true hybrid experience and that's where I
think we need to go, and not
546
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:21.119
very many companies or testing that yet, but that's the direction I think we
547
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:27.360
need to go to leverage the best
of both worlds. Simply recording your in
548
00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:30.400
person stuff and broadcasting it is not
going to work so well, in my
549
00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:35.599
opinion. Well, I want to
discuss one other thing that I know you
550
00:41:35.639 --> 00:41:39.440
and I are both particularly interested in
and we're monitoring, and it's a piece
551
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:43.480
of this book that's new that you
really spend some time on, which is
552
00:41:43.559 --> 00:41:50.599
around ai and how AI is influencing
marketing. So let's dive in there.
553
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:58.440
How have you seen ai tools really
take a leap and start helping marketers and
554
00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:04.559
coming alongside us? Huge Ai over
the last two editions of the new rules
555
00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:08.079
and marketing and PR so roughly the
last five years, has really really taken
556
00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:13.800
off. So there's some ai tools
that happen kind of behind the scenes that
557
00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:17.079
we don't even know about, like
if you're using any of the social networking
558
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:22.840
companies, advertising platforms Linkedin, facebook
and so on, there's AI components in
559
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:25.760
there to understand who to show the
ads too and you don't even see that.
560
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:30.239
You don't push any buttons to make
that happen. If you're using,
561
00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:35.440
for example, tools like hub spot. There's tools within those kinds of systems
562
00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:39.119
that help you to create the best
headline for a blog post, for example,
563
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:42.920
things like that. You don't even
know that's going on behind the scenes
564
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:46.199
when you're using those tools sometimes.
And then there's the tools that you can
565
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:52.519
actually buy, like, for example, I'm a fan of a transcription service
566
00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:58.800
called Otter Ai, and so I
take the recordings of speeches, I take
567
00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:02.639
the recordings of interviews I've done,
drop them in and their ai engine then
568
00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:08.039
creates a transcript. Many podcasters use
that. That those tools as well.
569
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:13.280
That helps me a ton when I'm
doing an interview and then creating a blog
570
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.679
post or a story in the book
around that, because I don't have to
571
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:22.199
transcribe by hand. And I'm a
huge fan of a company called lately,
572
00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:28.760
and lately is an AI engine for
creating short form content from long form content.
573
00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:31.440
So, for example, what you
can do is you can drop in
574
00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:36.360
an entire blog post or a chapter
of a book, and that's a text
575
00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:40.880
based piece of content or a video
or a podcast, and then when the
576
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:50.719
lately ai engine does is it then
puts it into social media ready chunks.
577
00:43:51.000 --> 00:43:54.400
So that, for example, one
blog post that I write a blog on
578
00:43:54.639 --> 00:44:01.280
at least once a week. A
blog post will then be generating fifteen or
579
00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:07.679
even twenty tweets and it takes just
seconds to do that. Now I'll go
580
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:12.320
in and I'll edit the make sure
they're okay. So roughly ten minutes total
581
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:15.840
to generate fifteen or twenty amazing tweets. Then I can schedule them one per
582
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:20.679
day or two per week or when
every two weeks, or whatever schedule I
583
00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:24.639
want. And this is transformed the
way I use twitter because it's allowed me
584
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:30.239
to create really easily a whole bunch
of short form, in this case tweets,
585
00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:35.679
or they could also be linked in
posts or instagram posts from one blog
586
00:44:35.719 --> 00:44:38.159
post, where I used to just
take the headline of the blog post,
587
00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:42.920
put in the URL, push that
out and that was the extent of me
588
00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:47.039
showing my twitter followers that I've got
a new blog post. Now I'm putting
589
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:52.320
out tweets and other customers of lately
are putting out tweets on a regular basis.
590
00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:55.519
or I'll take a onehour video,
drop it in and I'll get ten
591
00:44:55.599 --> 00:45:00.400
or fifteen or twenty, thirty or
forty five se in clips that I can
592
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:06.760
use on social media. That's all
AI driven. Super, super powerful example
593
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:10.920
of how ai can be used for
be to be companies, because these tools
594
00:45:10.960 --> 00:45:16.159
make our jobs easier and it's not
going to take away the jobs of marketers.
595
00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:20.559
It's going to make us more efficient. It's going to allow us to
596
00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:22.320
do a heck of a lot more
than we're able to do today if we're
597
00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:27.159
doing all those things manually. I
like that optimism. And we know we're
598
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:31.440
not in just a content creation space
anymore. We're in a need for distribution
599
00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:36.280
space, and so it will,
like lately, is helpful and coming alongside
600
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.400
there. We're okay, I've created
this piece of content, I've poured my
601
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:45.119
effort in my work into it.
Let's make sure this is properly distributed and
602
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:49.159
put before people. So as a
great example. Are there any negatives,
603
00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:52.480
as you see what's happening with algorithms
and AI, that really stand out to
604
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:59.079
you, David? Unfortunately, yes, I I'm a very, very pessimistic
605
00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:05.559
about the polarizing nature of social media
algorithms, especially facebook. There's dangers with
606
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:07.480
all the algorithms, but facebook,
I believe, is by far the most
607
00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:15.039
dangerous, because facebook is tuned to
get you to stay as long as possible
608
00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:22.440
on the facebook network and they've figured
out that anger gets you to stay on
609
00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:30.320
the network longer and therefore it's tuned
to show you things that are likely to
610
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:36.559
make you angry and it drives polarization
here in this country. It's the red
611
00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:42.679
team against the blue team. It
creates things like people fighting over whether back
612
00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:46.800
scenes are safe and effective or not. It drives things like the events of
613
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:52.480
January sixth, and these things are
really, really dangerous. And so I
614
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:58.000
believe actually the facebook algorithm is one
of the most destructive technologies ever invented.
615
00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:00.480
I really do. I think it's
that bad. There's two billion people on
616
00:47:00.480 --> 00:47:06.079
facebook around the world using it on
a very regular basis, and that many
617
00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:09.760
of those people become susceptible to conspiracy
theories and they don't even know it because
618
00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:14.320
of the way the algorithm works.
If all of the people you interact with
619
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:19.679
on facebook are talking about a particular
conspiracy theory, you naturally think that everyone
620
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:22.039
believe, everyone knows this is true. I've seen it on facebook Wateryson.
621
00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:28.320
So yeah, and and I believe
this is a very, very, very
622
00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:31.480
destructive for all of humanity. And
you know, I don't know what we
623
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:36.320
can do about it. FACEBOOK is
a private company. They can essentially do
624
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:40.320
what they want. All of the
social networks have been. When they're brought
625
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:45.519
in front of Congress here in this
country or or when they're talking about how
626
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:52.719
their systems work, they all go
back to the idea of free speech and
627
00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:58.400
the ability to say whatever people want
and the fact that they have ways to
628
00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:02.519
remove content. That's not true.
Okay, that's fine, but that's not
629
00:48:02.639 --> 00:48:09.360
the problem. They're focusing everyone's attention
to on to something that's not the problem.
630
00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:15.480
The fundamental problem isn't that a few
people are talking about conspiracy theories.
631
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:23.480
The fundamental problem is that the social
media technology is spreading that like wildfire.
632
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:27.639
And but they don't want that to
be the debate. They want the debate
633
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:31.679
to be we're dealing with the problem
of conspiracy theories, even though they're not
634
00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:35.639
really doing a great job at that
either. They want that to be the
635
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.079
debate. They don't want the debate
to be around the algorithm and the technology.
636
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:43.719
So I think that's a challenge and
don't know how we can solve it.
637
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:46.719
But I believe that's a huge challenge. The pace at which misinformation spreads
638
00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:52.760
to is so much faster, and
so it's this thing that, while there's
639
00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:58.719
so much great connection that can happen
online, the the speed at which we
640
00:48:58.800 --> 00:49:02.559
can spread misinformation without knowing it is
we have to get that under control and
641
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:07.239
it'll be interesting to see how we
go about that. I find it interesting,
642
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:08.760
and we mentioned this right off the
top, so maybe this is coming
643
00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:14.159
full circle, but with Elon Musk
has purchase of twitter, one of the
644
00:49:14.199 --> 00:49:17.840
things he has been talking about is
this idea of being able to really tell
645
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:22.239
what's a human what's about, and
I think that's going to be a fascinating
646
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:28.559
conversation moving forward as well. As
Ai is more involved in our lives,
647
00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:32.559
how we interact on in line can
be dictated without knowing it. We're interacting
648
00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:37.519
with bots and we're interacting with all
sorts of misinformation. So if we can
649
00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:39.159
get that under control, not saying
musk will do it, but I think
650
00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:45.360
that's a question that we're all asking. I'm very optimistic that if he can
651
00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:47.599
solve that problem on twitter that that
would be a big step. I mean
652
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:52.199
there's a moody stand millions of fake, fake accounts on twitter. There's millions
653
00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:54.960
of millions of robot based accounts on
twitter and one of the things he's been
654
00:49:55.000 --> 00:50:00.199
talking about is that every twitter account's
going to be need to be verified as
655
00:50:00.199 --> 00:50:02.000
being a human. Yeah, if
he can pull it off, I'm all
656
00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:05.920
for it. I think that would
be go a long, long long way
657
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:08.800
to solving the problem of some of
the negative aspects of twitter. So I'm
658
00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:14.039
rooting for him to be successful around
that. You and me both well,
659
00:50:14.199 --> 00:50:19.280
David. It has been such an
honor to have you here on Bob Growth
660
00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:23.480
with us, and congratulations again on
this eighth addition. For people that want
661
00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:27.360
to stay connected to you, tell
us what's the best way to do that.
662
00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:30.679
We've mentioned twitter a number of times, but where sh your people connect?
663
00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:36.079
So I'm DM Scott, DMSCOTT on
twitter, same hand, on instagram.
664
00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:38.119
You can easily find me on the
other social networks and you can usually
665
00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:42.960
easily find me on google. One
of this the chapters in the new roles
666
00:50:42.960 --> 00:50:46.400
of marketing mprs about search engine optimization
and I always tell people when you're thinking
667
00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:51.719
of a new company name, product
name, book name, always, always,
668
00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:54.000
always, check the search engines to
make sure if you can own that
669
00:50:54.039 --> 00:50:58.400
book title, which I've written twelve
books. In every case we've done that
670
00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:05.599
and my name is David Merman Scott. Merriman is my middle name. More
671
00:51:05.639 --> 00:51:09.119
than twenty years ago I started to
use my middle name professionally because I'm the
672
00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:16.199
only David Merman Scott and in the
entire world nice, that's good boat load
673
00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:20.639
of David Scott. So there's a
David Scott who walked on the moon and
674
00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:23.440
with a Paula fifteen. There's a
David Scott who's an iron man triathlon champion,
675
00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:28.559
there's a David Scott who's a member
of Congress from the state of Georgia.
676
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:32.400
I couldn't compete as David Scott,
but as David Merman Scott I'm the
677
00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:36.800
only one on the planet. So
you have the simple question how can people
678
00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:40.239
reach me? But it's actually a
new rule. that new rule is always
679
00:51:40.320 --> 00:51:45.519
make sure you test any name that
you're going to use. In fact,
680
00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:51.039
a little personal note here, Ben
g, if I may. My daughter
681
00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:58.400
and her husband had my first grandchild
four days ago and I'm so wonderful.
682
00:51:58.840 --> 00:52:04.760
Thank you. Her name is Sarah
Moon Gooley Scott and in any way that
683
00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:07.840
you look at it, just take
her first name, Sora. Sora in
684
00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:10.960
her last name, Gooley Scott,
which is the last name, my last
685
00:52:12.039 --> 00:52:15.239
name, Scott, my son in
law's last name Goolay. They put it
686
00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:19.440
together when they got married. She's
the only Sarah Gooley Scott in the entire
687
00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:23.119
world. So I don't know that
she did it because of me. I
688
00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:28.159
don't think she did, but hey, brand new child born in the world,
689
00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:34.159
unique on the web. Go by
the URL now already done well.
690
00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:37.920
It's been great to have you here
with us today, David. Thank you
691
00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:40.960
so much for spending time and stop
and buy and now we know this conversation
692
00:52:42.039 --> 00:52:44.960
is going to help fuel growth and
innovation for so many of our B to
693
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:47.559
be marketers that are listening. My
pleasure, Benji. Really appreciate you having
694
00:52:47.599 --> 00:52:52.239
me on for our listeners. If
you have yet to follow the show,
695
00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:55.000
we would encourage you to do that
on whatever podcast platform you listen to this
696
00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:59.199
on. Connect with me on Linkedin. Just search Benji block over there.
697
00:52:59.199 --> 00:53:01.159
Would love to chat with you about
marketing, about business, about life.
698
00:53:01.239 --> 00:53:16.760
Keep doing work that matters. Will
be back real soon with another episode.
699
00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:20.880
Be Tob growth is brought to you
by the team at sweet fish media.
700
00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:23.679
Here at sweet fish we produce podcast
for some of the most innovative brands in
701
00:53:23.719 --> 00:53:29.280
the world, and we help them
turn those podcasts into Microvideos linkedin content,
702
00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:32.480
blog posts and more. We're on
a mission to produce every leader's favorite show.
703
00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:37.119
Want more information, visit sweet PHISH
MEDIACOM