Transcript
WEBVTT
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Mhm
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Hi everyone, welcome back to be to be
growth. I'm Olivia Hurley and today I'm
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joined by joe Hansen who's the content
marketing Manager at observe ai joe,
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how are you doing today? Good Olivia
and really excited to be here and talk
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content for a little bit. Oh awesome,
Well I'm super excited to you have a
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perspective on content performance and
how people engage with content after
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it's been downloaded that I'm curious
about and I want to kind of poke into a
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little bit and see what we find there.
You specifically have your eyes on
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getting insights from how content after
it's been downloaded and how to take
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action on those insights. Can you bring
us all into your world a little bit and
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talk about the current state of content,
performance tracking? Yeah, yeah. And
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the content specifically um that I want
to talk about is pdf assets, which you
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know, traditionally we've always put
behind a gate, someone's downloaded it
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and then we sent him an email and they
open it and that's it, You're, it's
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really a black box on the assets that
we're spending tons of money creating
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and tons of money distributing. So
eventually I realized that there is an
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answer to this and there's actually
ways to track, not just many times
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downloading a piece of content or
opening it, but also how are they
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actually engaging with it and that's
what I'm going to talk about today,
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which is kind, it's opening up that
black box of content we have today and
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going deeper into it and you can do all
those insights you get from that so
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currently and I think you might have
mentioned this but just to clarify
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currently what can you do with the
insights that typical pdf's deliver?
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Yeah. Yeah. So really like in the past
it ended at download that was it and
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now we're really able to look into not
just what people are downloading but
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how they're engaging with it. So
there's a couple really powerful use
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cases that stem from that. The first
biggest one that your C. R. O. Is going
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to care about is how can we pass these
insights onto sales? How can we arm
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sales with valuable information about
the accounts that they're spending lots
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of time working to say this is the
content that both the people you know
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what that company and the people you
don't know at that company are engaging
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with. You know about the topics that
they're reading about what kind of
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assets they're interested in. The
customer stories that they're reading.
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That's a really powerful tool to pass
on to sales. The second one is knowing
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what resonates beyond just your landing
page and the title of your e book. And
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that's back to the black box that I
talked about. You know a lot of
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conversations that you're having with
your digital team is like make more e
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books about this specific topic because
people care about this but then you dig
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into it and you might realize that yeah
a lot of people download that asset but
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no one's actually reading it and that's
not doing your business any good Or
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they hop into it for five seconds and
then bounced there. You have the
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conversation is that it is a design
thing, is it how you know you only have
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five seconds to attract their attention
and is it a navigation issue? And then
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the last thing is near and dear to your
marketing teams heart, which is how can
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we use this for both our marketing
nurture and our lead scoring that we're
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doing. And that's where it starts
getting really quite complex and
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sophisticated. That's where you start
looking at how long are people spending
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on these certain assets And does that
change their lead score from being cold
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to hot or can we put them in specific
nurture campaigns based on the content
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they're consuming. So those are some
really really powerful use cases. Once
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you start diving into your content
insights beyond just the stuff on your
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website and the stuff on your blog
which you're already looking at today.
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Talk to me about the limits now though.
So those are three powerful things you
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can do but they have clear end zones
and that's all that you can do with
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them. Tell me about the limits of the
data. Yeah. So one of the major ones
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and anyone who is in marketing has
probably had a conversation with their
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executive team on them asking who's
coming to our site and who's reading
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our content. This is actually getting
harder and harder to answer. As cookie
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policies change web browsers are
getting better at tracking or at
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blocking the tracking on contacts and
visitors coming to your website and
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then work from home too has changed
everything with enriching anonymous
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leads because the IP addresses don't
match to the company anymore. So these
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are major challenges and it's only
getting harder. So that's that's still
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a major limitation if an unknown
visitor comes through and an unknown
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visitors basically they haven't given
you their email and the system isn't
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able to match them to being the visitor
on that content. So that could be
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someone has forwarded a pdf to a
teammate that's an anonymous visitor.
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That's still a bit of a black box. The
other big one is yeah. Id'ing those
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users and de anonymized them enrichment
tools are only so powerful at matching.
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But back to what I said earlier about
new cookie policies and work from home.
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That's really hard to so you get the
insights on the activity but you might
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not be able to pinpoint every single
activity to a specific user and that's
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just something to keep in mind. You'll
find new ways to do it. But those are
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the the geniuses who are actually
building these marketing technologies
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to figure out was there a moment or a
project or a part of your strategy
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where you realized that you needed more
data from the content and that kind of
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spurred along the rest of your
philosophy and strategy of performance
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tracking. Yeah, I guess they were kind
of two defining moments. One of the one
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was looking at our, we did a deep audit
basically of all the demand generation
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campaigns that we ran over the year. So
and we were just looking at blunt
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conversion rates on the landing page
and I found that that didn't tell a
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true story because there were certain
assets that were pulling in really low
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cost for lead, really high click
through rates and conversion rates. But
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if you went down funnel and you looked
at the actual deals that were closing
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and the content that was influencing
those deals, it told a very different
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story. So I started thinking like maybe
looking at just the content that's
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being downloaded isn't painting a true
picture of the content that's actually
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being consumed. I didn't have answers
though into how much that content is
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being consumed. I couldn't directly
correlate the activity taking place on
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the content to influencing the deal
down the road from both the known
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visitors and the anonymous visitors. So
that was like a big thing for us
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because there's a lot of money riding
on this decision, your digital team
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needs to know how much money to put
behind each asset that you're rolling
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out or each campaign that you're
rolling out. So That was 1, 1 big
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defining moment. I would say. The other
one was looking at, at a major
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challenge that we're having observed
was um, we're driving a ton of content
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downloads. A lot of em que els, but
they're stopping there, that people
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aren't converting to SQL, which in our
case was raising the hand and saying
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I'd like a demo and then that we set up
for leads coming through. So from there,
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I said, why are we driving so much, so
much attention? We're getting tons of
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people into the door. But what's going
wrong with the content where they
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falling off? And that's where having a
deeper analysis of the content
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consumption outside of just blog or
clicking your emails comes into play.
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You can start seeing the drop off point
for people on the static assets. So
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those are two kind of defining moments
for us where we started to think, hey,
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maybe we need to start investing in
content experience technology and then
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using all the deep insights you get
from that content experience platform
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to actually make better decisions on
the content you're creating and how
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you're serving it. So how then do you
build content that is trackable? Yes.
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So it does require picking a certain
content experience platform. Most of
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these, there's all sorts of different
various offerings. You can get some of
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them are like rip and replace your
entire website and it becomes your new
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CMS. Other ones are lightweight and sit
on top of your website. We decided to
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go light away with one called Path
factory, there's tons of other ones out
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there and that's where we saw that it
served our purposes in both building
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these content experiences. So that's
like a content track where you just put
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together, you know, any number of pdf
assets. It can be one or it can be
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seven. You put them in a content track
that you might base around use case
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your product offering industry persona
and then you build these tracks and
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then you put them as part of demanding
campaigns or you blanket them across
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your website, you put them in your
resource center and then you dive into
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the analytics on those specific tracks
and that's where you can see the source
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of people coming into the track and
then all the engagement metrics. And
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then normally most of these solutions
will also have integrations with you
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know, your salesforce and that's how
you connected to the sales team and get
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them the insights so they start getting
alerts and it says like four or five
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people from Nike have looked at have
looked at this track and then they can
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be like, oh well Nike is interested in
observe ai whereas some other account
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that I'm just like Grinding to get in
contact with hasn't looked at anything.
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I should spend my time there. And Nike
is a big company, maybe not the best
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example in this case probably want to
go down. What's kind of cool is like if
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you're looking at like a 50 person
company and five people look at it, you
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can kind of assume who those five
people are and have better insights
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going in. But that's a conversation for
later. If we're talking about the
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connection to sales. But overall, yeah,
that's how you do it. You build content
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tracks, you analyze the content tracks,
build content tracks, analyze the
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content tracks and maybe we've just
planted the idea of observe ai and
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Nikes head and no, yes. Nike if you're
listening, check us out, they'll come
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to you and think it was your idea, the
whole thought their their idea of the
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whole time. Oh my gosh, I ruined my own
punch line. Oh, I guess. Okay, so you
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have these insights, You talked a
little bit about how they impact sales
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and then we rerouted. I'm curious about
what you do with these as a content
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marketer. Yeah. So you know, just
recapping on the sales, use case you
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set up the alerts and you let sales
know when their accounts are engaging
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with content. This is also really
valuable for your pre sales BDR
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activities. You know, they're hungry,
they're sending out hundreds of emails
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a day to too low intent, whether it's a
low intent, outbound message or
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following up with an inbound that's
really valuable information to them
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because they know can I refer to
observe a, because this person has
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spent five minutes in the asset and
they're at least moderately familiar
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with observe or is it a complete cold
outreach and they've never heard of us
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even though they've downloaded an e
book. So that's kind of the sales use
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case. There, there's a lot of ways you
can integrate that with nurture in
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particular. This is where you can get
really sophisticated because you can
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set up rules to put people in relevant
nurture tracks, not just based on what
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you think is relevant to them, but what
they've identified as relevant to them.
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So you have to say you're targeting a
specific persona and you're dropping
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that person into title, but meanwhile
they're consuming tons of content
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related to different use case. If
you're say putting this in marketing
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terms outside of call center technology
because we're all marketers listening
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to this podcast. You know, I'm a
content marketer and I'm reading a ton
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of stuff on demand generation and using
content in paid campaigns. Maybe that's
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more relevant to the problems I'm
having today. So drop me in that
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nurture drip that you have versus one
that's focused on Ceo for instance,
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because I'm focused on paid at
acquisition, that sort of thing. And
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you can get as deep as you want. Like I
was on some webinar I think of his path
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factory, maybe another and they were
talking about, they had 27 different
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nurtured drips and I'm sitting there
like, you know, we have like five and
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observed which they have 27 because
they have crazy sophistication in there
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address, right? It's getting it's on
people and putting them in their
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relevant drips. And then with scoring
it's not just based on top level
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activity. So this person looked at five
blog posts like but they only 10
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seconds on those five blog post by
because they're just clicking, clicking,
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clicking and drop vs one person, maybe
One asset. But they spent 27 minutes on
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it because they watched the full
webinar or read the entire e book cover
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to cover. Which would be sweet. That
person is higher intent even though
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they have much lower count of activity.
So when you're thinking about lead
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scoring you can go beyond just top
level quantifiable activity and
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actually go deeper into the engagement
metrics. And then there's some other
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things built in where you can say like
looked at three assets on a specific
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track and these three assets are
actually very high value because it's a
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one pager and like an R. O. I document
that person is going to be higher
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intent from your lead scoring model. So
it's really powerful. But just like a
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sidebar. Word of advice don't try to
boil the ocean with lead scoring or
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nurture like start small and test and
make sure that you're not leaving any
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gaps gaps in your nurture because
you're getting really sophisticated
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with one specific nurture track. But
those are, those are some really
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powerful ways outside of outside of
like you as a content marketer. And
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then the last thing which I I should've
covered first is it lets you know what
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to write about and what not. Do you
need to look at the topics that people
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are actually reading, not just
downloading through digital ads. So
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those are kind of, I guess the four for
huge values you can get out of
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analyzing your static assets. I want to
go broad picture for a second and talk
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about how how this information in this
new technology and content performance
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in general has changed your content
strategy. But before I do that I'm
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curious based on what you just last
said, has this data affected the volume
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or quality of your content? Yeah what's
interesting is you actually find that
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it might decrease the volume that
you're creating because you're not
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using the content itself or like ton
rolling out tons of new content and
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doing tons of volume to test what's
resonating with people and what's not.
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So hey, it holds your content to a
higher standard because I can't just
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produce an asset or have an outsourced
team produced an asset and then handed
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off and then say my job's done, it's
actually measuring the success of the
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content itself the same way you would
look at a blog post and say, you know,
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people spend 12 seconds on this blog
post and it has a really high bounce
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rate. Maybe that's not the most
powerful blog post. Same goes now with
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your pdf asset so it holds the content
to a higher standard and you start
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revisiting that content, say how could
this be improved? We don't need to
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reinvent the wheel, create new asset,
we can improve the existing one and
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here's how and that's based on the
insights. The other thing is, is
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definitely like the reusability. So if
I'm looking at a track and a specific
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actually real life use case for this is
we build tracks around industries and
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had launched a number of industry
specific white papers that were focused
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on copies for these different
industries and the KPs are radically
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different for the different industries,
but it follows the same how we're
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presenting this information. So built
those tracks. Built five white papers
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for five industries and then put it out
there and tested it. We found that in
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all five industries this resonated
really well. So that tells us and by
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resonated, I mean the people actually
read it, they didn't just download it
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and they even would skip down to the
part that said how observing I helped
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you with X. So that's showing like, hey
now we're onto something, it's tested
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and we can reuse this over and over
rather than if we had just put those
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pdf's out there. Yeah, we would have
seen that the ads resonated really well,
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people care about copies but we
wouldn't have the reinforcing insights
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that say like this content is actually
read. These are the most important
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parts of it. So reusability is huge and
being able to test it so you can make
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the right decisions and then holding
yourself to a higher standard looking
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at the content and knowing that it is
actually high quality and not just you
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know, a good click baby catchy piece
that doesn't actually provide the
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reader like any sort of information.
Hey everybody Logan with sweet fish
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here. If you're a regular listener of
GDP growth, you know that I'm one of
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the co hosts of the show but you may
not know that. I also head up the sales
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team here is sweet fish. So for those
of you in sales or sales ops I wanted
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to take a second to share something
that's made us insanely more efficient
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lately. Our team has been using lead I.
Q. For the past few months and what
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used to take us four hours gathering
contact data. Now takes us only one
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00:17:57.340 --> 00:18:02.520
where 75% more efficient were able to
move faster with outbound prospecting
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00:18:02.530 --> 00:18:07.530
and organizing our campaigns is so much
easier than before. I'd highly suggest
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you guys check out lead I. Q. As well.
You can check them out at lead I. Q dot
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com. That's L E A D I Q dot com. All
right, let's get back to the show. So
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now take community high level how of
all these tactics, impacted your
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overall strategy. I think the biggest
thing is thinking of content in like a
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journey rather than an individual
campaign and that's what I like about
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the idea of bucket ng content into,
into tracks. So in bundles and actually
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thinking now that's why the third
reason that I started looking for a
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content experience platform, I like put
together a bundle of content in the
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most bootleg way possible, just like
mashing it together using hubspot
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landing pages and hosted links. Had no
insights on how this bundle performed.
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I said there has to be a better way to
collect your PDFs and put them together.
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So we definitely now think of content
as journeys. So putting together tracks
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of content that serve a specific stage
in the funnel and then connecting those
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different tracks together. So I can
confidently say in this industry, I top
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of funnel bundle, a middle of funnel
bundle and a bottom of funnel bundle
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and then determine how we're going to
distribute those tracks. Whether down
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funnel, it might be a salesperson
passing that content along top of
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funnel, it might be a lead generation
add or living organically on our
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website, but it's no longer just
campaigns, it's not, here's an e book,
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go market it driver lead and then give
that SQL to the BDR s and my job's done.
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It holds us more accountable for
thinking about how content influences a
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deal from start to finish. And then the
other piece is just, is just the
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standard of the content, which I talked
about earlier. It's actually knowing,
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knowing what works and what doesn't
from an engagement standpoint, not just
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a click standpoint. I'm curious about
the results you've seen. Can you talk
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to me a little bit about that And so
there's a couple of high level results
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that we've seen and it's cool to be
able to as a content marketer, start
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quantifying your influence on the
overall marketing metrics. So the same
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way that a digital marketer can say
like I lowered cost per lead. I it's
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not just I shipped six blog posts over
the week and drove this much traffic
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and it's like that number doesn't
really doesn't really speak to the
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business. Whereas if you say, you know,
looking at engagement metrics, here's
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how much I improved the time on site
and this is how, how much, how much it
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influenced deals pass SQL like you can
go really deep on your influence and
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that's powerful as a content marketer
because for a while, like you could
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never quantify your your impact. It was
always around influence. So in terms of
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results, there's a couple of ways to
look at it, but one of the biggest
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things for us was keeping people on our
homepage and we switched out our sita's
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from just being like a product video
that shows up. If you click a button to
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a attract like the overview bundle and
it has different stuff for different
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intent visitors, someone might want to
watch the two minute video, someone
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might want to read the R. O. I.
Document. So we put that on and we
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found that one in three people who hit
that button looked at more than one
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asset in that track and that that one
in three is people we would have lost
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if we just had a video, we're giving
them other things to look at and
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consume based on where they think they
are. So that was powerful. That one in
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three because and then the other thing
is actually increasing time on site. So
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you create these strong content
experiences. It hooks people in and
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keeps them on site. So we found that if
someone clicks through to a content
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track At five ext their time on site
because we're hooking them in with
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relevant content, there's different
stuff. They don't have to go looking
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for it. We've curated that experience
for them and now they're just in the
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reading experience and they can go at
their own pace. So those are two strong
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results up front. The sales use cases
newer for us. So we're going to still
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see how that nets out. But that's, this
is an example of like not trying to
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boil the ocean with a full sales
rollout and a full organic website
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rollout and a full demand gen rollout
so patiently awaiting results on that
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too. But those are the two like right
off the bat five X increase on site.
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And people consuming more content on
the home page and keeping them from
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bouncing what you said about consumers
are then go to your website, have a
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curated content experience and are able
to consume at their own pace. Read at
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their own pace. Makes me think about
just another conversation happening in
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our space right now, which is all about
personalization. And we come back to
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this idea and I had an awesome
conversation with Lynn Capozzi recently
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and she was saying it's like netflix,
people want an experience like netflix
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in that they want to have total
personalization and total control at
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the same time. And it sounds like you
have situated that website experience
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right in the crux of both of those
things. So kind of like a whole way too.
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Now bring content performance into the
world of personalization to is kind of
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interesting how it fits together. Yeah.
And I feel like, you know, as as these
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like enrichment services for example, I
was talking earlier about the d
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anonymous izing the anonymous visitors
and overcoming the challenges of
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cookies and work from home. But if
we're able to better enrich those leads
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coming through, then you can serve a
much better personalized experience.
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And there's certainly intelligence
built into all these platforms. So you
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can personalize it whether you want to
do the company name on the content or
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say, we know that Fedex is in shipping
and logistics, let's serve them the
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shipping and logistics track. So
they're not getting stuff on financial
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services and retail for example. But
that is a really, really cool use case
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and that's also like where it falls
into the nurture personalization we
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need to try to get, it's like trying to
get that right message at the right
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time to the right person. This sort of
insight lets you do better
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personalization as well. Too brilliant.
So if somebody wanted to take your
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advice, use technology to support these
endeavors and essentially do what you
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are doing at observe ai what would be
step one depending on how you like to
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because they're really, it's like this
isn't really a build verse by situation.
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You could try to build something like
this yourself using existing
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technologies that you have today, but
really you want to, if you want to get
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the most bang for your buck Well
because you're paying, you need to look
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for some sort of content experience
platform, there's tons of them various
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prices. So once you've done that and
you're like, okay I need to start
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looking for this. You use the various
sources. G two blogs read about it. But
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the second thing you need to say is
like how much do I want to do up front
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and when we're going through our search
for a platform. I found like radically
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different platform offerings from like
like I said rip out your whole CMS, you
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run your blog on this thing, your whole
resource center, everything lives in
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that content experience platform. Or do
I wanted to just sit on top posted in
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there and people can quickly come
through and consume this stuff. But I'm
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still running my blog separately, still
running my web dev separately. So
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there's all sorts of various offerings.
But that's the second thing you need to
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decide. You know, that's going to
depend on how big your dev team is, how
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big your marketing team is, how good
your ops are, all things to consider.
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But you know, like I said, don't try to
boil the ocean because this is too much
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to try to do everything up front slowly
address like the biggest gaps that you
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had. I talked about our gaps earlier,
which was like that lack of insight
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into lead generation results on on the
content. So I'm like that's the first
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thing I'm going to do. I'm going to get
analytics on this and build a process
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with our digital team and our ops team
and then move on to the more advanced
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use cases which are going to be nurture
and lead scoring and then how am I
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going to work with sales? But that's
the second thing just no, don't try to
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boil the ocean and then you probably
have a good idea of what your gaps are,
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whether it's sales, whether it's funnel
conversions, whether it's organic or
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whether it's actually people engaging
with your site and like conversions on
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your website. So as marketers, we know
what those gaps are and that's where
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that's where I would recommend starting
and then slowly add more and more
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content experience features as you deal
with those gaps. That's kind of like
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step 12. Oh and also like don't be
afraid to copy. It's like look at other
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people's content experiences and try to
recreate them as your own. I'm always
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doing that and you know, I'm not play
dressing. I'm just using them as
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inspiration, but that's another really
strong way. That's awesome. Yeah. I
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also love that. I think your
organization just came through, you're
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just like your ability to organize
because you just gave me like an
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itemized list of priority for where to
start this process. I absolutely loved
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that. That was like so generous of you
did not only give step one but to give
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all the way out to 45 I'm living. I'm
living in it. I love that. It's near
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and dear to my heart. I absolutely love
that as somebody who's not necessarily
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that clear kind of analytical talking
bullet points type of person. I like
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yes. Talk to me like that, understand.
And there's a nice example of like an
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insight you might find on a piece of
content, you might see like no one
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reads the wall of text that you provide
them in an e book, but people do spend
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time on the page that has a table or a
bullet point list, this kind of thing.
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You need to think about it the same way
when you're communicating with someone
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in person, it's like, recreate that
when they're reading because they might
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not have time to read eight pages of
just text, they're there to just
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quickly bounce, bounce through skin
through. So you inspired me there,
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there was only one thing listeners
could take away from this episode if
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you were, there was just something you
were like, above all else try this or
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think about this, what would it be? I
would say the biggest thing is just
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like invest in content experience, not
just volume of content, putting out
378
00:29:08.050 --> 00:29:13.010
more isn't always better and instead
look at what you already have and use
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that to help determine future pieces of
content that you're putting out and
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improve the stuff that exists today. I
always say two things don't boil the
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ocean, which I've said like eight times
already and then don't reinvent the
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wheel, which I think I've also said
eight times, but those are the two
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really valuable things that at least
I've done with content to actually put
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out better content, not just more
content, but that's what I would say.
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Think about content experience. Think
about your readers experience in there.
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00:29:42.380 --> 00:29:46.190
You know, this stuff might be very
fascinating to you and you might have
387
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spent days and days writing Eight pages
of text, but but they only have 30
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seconds, so give them something quicker
and easier to digest. And think about
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the experience of them reading joe, how
can listeners connect with you and
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learn more about observe a I, you know,
I'm on linkedin, you can find me there,
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00:30:07.770 --> 00:30:14.710
my name is joe Hanson and observe a I
you know, go to observe dot Ai and
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that's our Ural and and you know, don't
mess up, see if you come and don't
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convert, it's gonna make me look worse.
So don't convert on my landing pages if
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you don't want to buy our product,
please. Oh my God, it would scuttle
395
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this entire conversation. Oh cool. Well
it's been so great to talk to you.
396
00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:42.810
Thank you so much for joining me on BTV
growth. Thanks for having me. This was
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00:30:42.810 --> 00:30:43.060
fun.
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Yeah, at Sweet fish. We're on a mission
to create the most helpful content on
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00:30:49.370 --> 00:30:54.090
the internet for every job function and
industry on the planet for the B two B
400
00:30:54.090 --> 00:30:58.120
marketing industry. This show is how
we're executing on that mission. If you
401
00:30:58.120 --> 00:31:01.610
know a marketing leader that would be
an awesome guest for this podcast,
402
00:31:01.620 --> 00:31:05.170
shoot me a text message. Don't call me
because I don't answer unknown numbers,
403
00:31:05.180 --> 00:31:11.660
but text me at 4074 and I know 33 to 8,
just shoot me their name. maybe a link
404
00:31:11.660 --> 00:31:15.590
to their linkedin profile. And I'd love
to check them out to see if we can get
405
00:31:15.600 --> 00:31:17.260
them on the show next lot.