Nov. 18, 2021

The Next Wave Of Content Marketing for B2B w/Joe Pulizzi

In this episode, Dan Sanchez talks with Joe Pulizzi is the founder of The Tilt, the Content Marketing Institute, and is the author of Content Inc. 

Joe discusses the current state of owned media and content marketing within B2B and dive into his next venture with the Tilt where he is experimenting with branded crypto currency as a means of creating engagement with his audience.

Contact Info:https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepulizzi/pam@thetilt.com

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:00.250 Mhm 2 00:00:04.840 --> 00:00:09.120 Welcome back to BTB Growth. I'm dan Sanchez with sweet fish media and today 3 00:00:09.130 --> 00:00:12.970 I'm talking to joe policy, who is the founder of the tilt the content 4 00:00:12.970 --> 00:00:18.650 marketing institute and is the author of content inc joe. Welcome to the show 5 00:00:19.040 --> 00:00:22.990 dan. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Today we're gonna be talking about 6 00:00:22.990 --> 00:00:28.280 the current state of owned earned and paid media with B two B marketing and I 7 00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:31.530 wanted to kick it off with one question, especially since joe you've kind of 8 00:00:31.530 --> 00:00:38.090 been like the king of owned media for for a while now. But I feel like as 9 00:00:38.100 --> 00:00:41.650 long as I've been in marketing, like over 10 years now, I've been hearing 10 00:00:41.650 --> 00:00:46.160 people like champion the phrase like we need to become like media companies, 11 00:00:46.340 --> 00:00:49.980 marketing needs to become like media. And it's been, they've been saying this 12 00:00:49.980 --> 00:00:52.700 for a long time. I remember first hearing that was a social media manager 13 00:00:52.700 --> 00:00:56.200 and I was like, yeah, this is, this is what we need to do, this is the future. 14 00:00:56.210 --> 00:01:00.670 10 years from now, everybody is going to be doing this. But today, I can't 15 00:01:00.670 --> 00:01:04.120 say I see a lot of that happening right now. I see people, they post a social a 16 00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:08.470 little bit. They got a company blog. I can't say that we've reached the media 17 00:01:08.470 --> 00:01:11.800 company Mark, what do you think stopping most businesses from getting 18 00:01:11.800 --> 00:01:12.150 there? 19 00:01:13.340 --> 00:01:18.390 Well, it's a good point. I think first of all you have to realize that in most 20 00:01:18.390 --> 00:01:23.050 large enterprises they're pretty substantial. Media companies already 21 00:01:23.050 --> 00:01:26.710 built. It's just nobody talks about him. It's funny because it's just on our 22 00:01:26.720 --> 00:01:29.990 podcast with robert rose, this old marketing. And we were talking about 23 00:01:29.990 --> 00:01:35.160 Walgreens, Walgreens. Well, has a brand new content studio. Well, they've 24 00:01:35.160 --> 00:01:39.450 really had it for a while. Somebody just caught wind of it. Media company 25 00:01:39.450 --> 00:01:44.240 covered it. It's almost like back in the day where if you had a custom 26 00:01:44.240 --> 00:01:48.920 magazine, nobody really knew about it because it wasn't on the newsstand, it 27 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:52.530 was delivered to customers. So you never knew this stuff was going on. So 28 00:01:52.540 --> 00:01:57.650 I guess just to address the fact that a lot of this stuff is going on. But Yeah, 29 00:01:57.660 --> 00:02:02.350 is it going on as seriously as I would like to see it? Or to your 0.10 years 30 00:02:02.350 --> 00:02:06.370 ago, I've been in this industry now for 21, almost 22 years, I've been in the 31 00:02:06.370 --> 00:02:09.810 content marketing industry and we've been saying the same things in the same 32 00:02:09.810 --> 00:02:15.430 opportunity. It's still very tough when you're going one direction and you're 33 00:02:15.430 --> 00:02:20.680 focused on marketing a product or service to turn a little bit, it's a 34 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:25.270 brand new muscle that most organizations aren't used to using. So 35 00:02:25.270 --> 00:02:30.140 it's this is going to happen over decades. So I would, I guess I would 36 00:02:30.140 --> 00:02:33.990 say companies don't have to do this right. You know, that you've been 37 00:02:33.990 --> 00:02:37.940 around for a long time. Uh not everyone has a content marketing strategy. Most 38 00:02:37.940 --> 00:02:41.440 companies are using dabbling in content marketing. They've got their blog, 39 00:02:41.440 --> 00:02:45.450 they've got their, you know, their podcast going on and they're hoping 40 00:02:45.450 --> 00:02:50.170 it's additive to their to their product sales or keeping customers longer, or 41 00:02:50.170 --> 00:02:54.750 whatever, the big opportunity, and that's maybe we'll maybe we'll finally 42 00:02:54.750 --> 00:02:59.760 see in the next couple of years is the fact that If you really dedicate 43 00:02:59.760 --> 00:03:04.000 yourself to building an audience does take time, maybe that's maybe that's 44 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:08.680 the issue. It takes 9-12 to 18 months, it's outside the campaign cycle, you've 45 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:14.350 got to invest in it, and you've got to expect no return for the first year. So, 46 00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:17.640 you know, talk to a CMO about that and they were probably like, oh, I gotta 47 00:03:17.640 --> 00:03:21.240 make those quarterly numbers. Maybe you don't want to do that, maybe we don't 48 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:24.540 want to expand on that. But now, I think you're, you're getting into Web 49 00:03:24.540 --> 00:03:28.020 three, you're getting into a lot of experimentation. You're seeing things 50 00:03:28.020 --> 00:03:32.510 like Facebook being, you know, shut down for a day. You've got businesses 51 00:03:32.510 --> 00:03:35.680 that are tied to Facebook, they're completely helpless. You're thinking, 52 00:03:35.690 --> 00:03:40.950 uh maybe we should control our own destiny a little bit more. Uh maybe 53 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:44.330 we've given too much power to the linkedin's the twitters and the 54 00:03:44.330 --> 00:03:48.070 Facebooks of the world, and they now have these massive audience because of 55 00:03:48.070 --> 00:03:52.220 what we've done. Um I don't know, kind of rambling on the whole thing, I guess. 56 00:03:52.220 --> 00:03:57.880 I would, I'd like to say that really innovative companies over the next 12 57 00:03:57.880 --> 00:04:03.870 to 24 months are going to take us all by surprise, and we're going to say, 58 00:04:03.870 --> 00:04:10.010 wow, we had no idea, we had no idea that intel or we had no idea that Cisco 59 00:04:10.010 --> 00:04:14.300 systems, we had no idea that some of these other large B two B companies had 60 00:04:14.300 --> 00:04:20.089 such grand plans for building audiences in whatever way they're doing it, 61 00:04:20.089 --> 00:04:23.990 whether that's on twitch or whether it's on Youtube or whether it's a 62 00:04:23.990 --> 00:04:28.170 podcast or whatever. So I think that we just did, I think more than anything, 63 00:04:28.170 --> 00:04:33.590 we need to wake up and say that this is a lot of cases is happening. And then 64 00:04:33.590 --> 00:04:36.940 the ones that are listening to this where you're just dabbling, well, I 65 00:04:36.940 --> 00:04:40.990 would just say either do it or don't do it. You don't have to do it, you could 66 00:04:40.990 --> 00:04:45.640 interrupt people forever. You can just do paid media earned media great. Just 67 00:04:45.640 --> 00:04:49.490 keep doing that. But the, I don't think they understand the big opportunities 68 00:04:49.490 --> 00:04:53.370 of own media. It sounds like what you're saying a bit is like companies 69 00:04:53.370 --> 00:04:56.900 are taking advantage on, it are doing the media stuff. They're hiring media 70 00:04:56.900 --> 00:04:59.730 teams, they're building studios, they're hiring writers, Maybe even some 71 00:04:59.730 --> 00:05:03.850 journalists, right? But they're not necessarily building audience unless 72 00:05:03.850 --> 00:05:07.680 you're counting their customer base as an audience. Um do you see that being 73 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:10.770 kind of like the defining thing between them and what a media company would do 74 00:05:10.780 --> 00:05:14.060 because if your immediate company and you don't have an audience, Well, 75 00:05:14.640 --> 00:05:18.120 you're probably not going to be in business that long. I think it's, well, 76 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:22.220 you, you have customer audience efforts. I mean their loyalty programs, we've 77 00:05:22.220 --> 00:05:27.580 been doing them forever. I think what's missing on the marketing side is that 78 00:05:27.580 --> 00:05:34.150 marketers, content marketers don't understand that there are 10 different 79 00:05:34.150 --> 00:05:37.480 ways that you can drive revenue from an audience. And generally if you're a B 80 00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:41.660 two B company, you're looking at one, I want more product sales, I want lead 81 00:05:41.660 --> 00:05:44.980 gen, you know, so I'm gonna build an audience that we're gonna try to 82 00:05:44.980 --> 00:05:49.760 extract value from that audience one way. Well if your immediate, so let's 83 00:05:49.760 --> 00:05:53.120 take the media example. I mean, I've been immediate professional for 21 84 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:57.430 years. I build an audience initially. Right now. There could be more in the 85 00:05:57.430 --> 00:06:00.670 next year. Right now. There are 10 different ways that I can drive revenue. 86 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:04.760 I can, I can drive revenue six direct race. I can drive revenue through 87 00:06:04.760 --> 00:06:09.410 advertising sponsorship. I can drive revenue through events, sponsorships, 88 00:06:09.420 --> 00:06:13.620 event conferences. I could do it through premium content, like books or 89 00:06:13.620 --> 00:06:18.180 e books. I could do it through donations. I could do it through uh, 90 00:06:18.190 --> 00:06:21.420 subscriptions and I could do it through affiliate marketing. So great. Those 91 00:06:21.420 --> 00:06:25.170 are my six. And by the way, marketers don't think about any of that except 92 00:06:25.170 --> 00:06:28.430 for companies like salesforce that have dream force or big conferences or 93 00:06:28.430 --> 00:06:32.560 whatever. And then you've got the levers on the outside. So you've got, I 94 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:36.110 want, then you've got, I want to drive product sales. I want to have services 95 00:06:36.110 --> 00:06:39.290 sales. I want more loyal customers or I want to create better customers or 96 00:06:39.290 --> 00:06:45.070 increased yield, that's your 10. So how many content creators think about those 97 00:06:45.080 --> 00:06:51.340 opportunities in that way? Not many. And that's why I think the the CMO of 98 00:06:51.340 --> 00:06:55.110 the future in A B two B organization has half marketing expertise, have 99 00:06:55.110 --> 00:06:58.770 publishing expertise, because publishers innately already think about 100 00:06:58.770 --> 00:07:02.830 these things. We already know. We need to diversify our revenue streams 101 00:07:02.840 --> 00:07:08.980 immediately. Marketers think I have to hit X sales goals this quarter. So what 102 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:12.310 do I have to do in a very short period of time to interrupt people or get them 103 00:07:12.310 --> 00:07:16.130 to do what kind of behavior change? I want them to to do that thing in a 104 00:07:16.130 --> 00:07:19.210 short period of time, terrible, terrible. What do you think about the 105 00:07:19.210 --> 00:07:22.330 art of publishing? Because it's because we're trying to build a loyal 106 00:07:22.330 --> 00:07:25.090 relationship with an audience that knows likes and trusts us. If we do 107 00:07:25.090 --> 00:07:28.380 that well, we'll see some kind of behavior change or maintenance of 108 00:07:28.380 --> 00:07:32.580 behavior. So I think that's where as marketers, we need to expand our 109 00:07:32.580 --> 00:07:36.530 thinking and say, okay, well, let's say that daniel premises is correct and we 110 00:07:36.530 --> 00:07:40.210 all should be media companies, which I do. We already are media companies, 111 00:07:40.220 --> 00:07:45.630 then we have to become serious about the revenue pass for media companies 112 00:07:45.630 --> 00:07:50.800 and just extend of just this is the KPI which might be an initial hypothesis. 113 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:54.730 But what's next? It's interesting, I find that it's usually the revenue that 114 00:07:54.730 --> 00:07:58.260 gets people in trouble when especially in B two B. Right? Because they're 115 00:07:58.260 --> 00:08:03.290 trying to extract value so quickly that it's practically an advertorial or it's 116 00:08:03.290 --> 00:08:07.480 about their product or or it's just about their expertise and the people 117 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:11.370 they attract to their blog, their podcast is their competitors, let alone 118 00:08:11.370 --> 00:08:14.030 the person who is not already reading that kind of stuff that needs their 119 00:08:14.030 --> 00:08:17.650 help the most. Right? But what you're saying, or at least what I hear you 120 00:08:17.650 --> 00:08:21.750 saying, there's like the it's like not just how a BBB company would think 121 00:08:21.750 --> 00:08:24.250 about adding more revenue streams because they could think about like a 122 00:08:24.250 --> 00:08:27.780 tech company could add more software products or maybe unbundle their 123 00:08:27.780 --> 00:08:31.440 current software product to be multiple pieces. But you're talking about adding 124 00:08:31.440 --> 00:08:36.340 revenue streams. Like a publisher would add revenue streams. I almost think 125 00:08:36.340 --> 00:08:40.059 about is not adding revenue streams about diversifying the audience more 126 00:08:40.059 --> 00:08:42.740 places where you can add value, more places where you can build 127 00:08:42.740 --> 00:08:45.990 relationships and trust is that kind of what you're saying? Or is the revenue 128 00:08:45.990 --> 00:08:51.730 piece really important. I think that once you, so take your customer out of 129 00:08:51.730 --> 00:08:55.340 it for a second and say, we're trying to build a community if we're trying to 130 00:08:55.340 --> 00:09:01.690 build a community and you've done that really well. The opportunities for all 131 00:09:01.690 --> 00:09:05.820 sorts of different types of revenue opportunities and all sorts of learning 132 00:09:05.820 --> 00:09:11.620 opportunities and research and development, everything changes. So I 133 00:09:11.620 --> 00:09:16.550 almost would prefer if you're a B2B company going into this, you almost 134 00:09:16.550 --> 00:09:21.900 take take your have your hypothesis of revenue, but but take it off the table 135 00:09:21.900 --> 00:09:26.790 for a second because the longer that we can go without pushing some kind of a 136 00:09:26.800 --> 00:09:32.290 revenue product or sales or service or whatever, the more focus we are we're 137 00:09:32.290 --> 00:09:35.690 we have on the audience, the more focus we have in our other needs are pain 138 00:09:35.690 --> 00:09:40.190 points, their desires and their better. We will serve them. And that's that's 139 00:09:40.190 --> 00:09:44.040 the winners. And then then down the road you can get to be Red Bull Media 140 00:09:44.040 --> 00:09:49.470 House, right? That's that's like we'll be Red Bull or Air Electronics who is 141 00:09:49.470 --> 00:09:54.180 the largest Media Company in the B two B Electronic Space. It's not immediate 142 00:09:54.180 --> 00:10:00.660 company, it's error electronics, brands, three million opt in subscribers. They 143 00:10:01.040 --> 00:10:06.360 each one of those brands are profitable in and of themselves. So think about 144 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:10.250 that if you're a marketing person listening to this, each one of that 145 00:10:10.250 --> 00:10:14.620 group of 53 publications that generate, I don't know how many millions of 146 00:10:14.620 --> 00:10:20.610 dollars they are profitable in and of themselves. Not an expense. Like we 147 00:10:20.610 --> 00:10:25.210 would think our marketing department is don't expect. No, they're not. And they 148 00:10:25.210 --> 00:10:29.560 kick off more product and service sales. So they do the content marketing thing 149 00:10:29.560 --> 00:10:34.030 to get the goals. But also there is this amazing, this is a it could be, we 150 00:10:34.030 --> 00:10:37.510 could spin it off as its own business. I'm friends with some of the people 151 00:10:37.510 --> 00:10:42.320 over Cleveland clinic. They finally got to, they are cost neutral for the 152 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:48.060 publication for the, for the hospital. So, wow, you never thought that that 153 00:10:48.060 --> 00:10:52.780 was a possibility. But you know, here we are. It's it's funny like I'm trying 154 00:10:52.780 --> 00:10:57.130 to, to your question, you know, what advice would we want to give a B two B 155 00:10:57.130 --> 00:11:01.990 marketer? I'd almost say, please, first for a second, take off your marketing 156 00:11:01.990 --> 00:11:08.420 hat. And look at the bigger possibility. Don't just look at nine months. Look at 157 00:11:08.420 --> 00:11:14.440 five years. Look, I mean, we were lucky because, you know, we had, I was we 158 00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:18.350 were patient and content marketing institute in 2007. We were, we were 159 00:11:18.350 --> 00:11:22.140 lucky to say, I know content marketing is going to be a thing, but it's not 160 00:11:22.140 --> 00:11:25.590 going to be a thing in nine months. So we had a road map it out and we said, 161 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:29.780 if we build an audience, we know that other thing. We know there could be a 162 00:11:29.780 --> 00:11:33.620 big event. We know there could be training, we know that, you know, we 163 00:11:33.620 --> 00:11:38.250 could we could sign up the largest enterprises in the world, but not now. 164 00:11:38.260 --> 00:11:42.640 No. So we almost have to wait. And we were in an advantage because of that. 165 00:11:42.650 --> 00:11:46.990 You wouldn't think so because we really wanted to eat and I really wanted to 166 00:11:46.990 --> 00:11:52.370 pay the bills. But I knew that that was the right direction. So I think that 167 00:11:52.380 --> 00:11:57.810 give your team some leeway, focus on focus on an audience goal instead of a 168 00:11:57.810 --> 00:12:02.130 revenue goal. So say, we call this a minimum viable audience, let's say you 169 00:12:02.130 --> 00:12:06.870 have an email newsletter that you're launching. Give your email newsletter 170 00:12:06.870 --> 00:12:11.360 team. Just say, I don't want to talk about any revenue generation 171 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:17.960 or KPI s on the sales side until you hit 10,000 opt in subscribers, 172 00:12:19.040 --> 00:12:22.750 like real subscribers that are really opening the email newsletter or if it's 173 00:12:22.750 --> 00:12:28.080 a podcast downloads whatever your metric is. And then when you get to 174 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.400 that point, you can, you can look at and say, okay, well maybe now we can 175 00:12:31.400 --> 00:12:36.120 start to put on the monetization. Uh, it just works a heck of a lot better. 176 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:38.720 And if you look at some of the greatest content marketing examples on the 177 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:42.090 planet, they've all done that. They've all said, look, we're just heads down, 178 00:12:42.100 --> 00:12:45.420 we're gonna build this audience. And then once we do, we'll see where we're 179 00:12:45.420 --> 00:12:49.290 at and we'll see what makes the most sense from a revenue standpoint. It's 180 00:12:49.290 --> 00:12:53.140 interesting in some ways, Depending on the types of content you're putting out, 181 00:12:53.140 --> 00:12:57.090 you might not ever have to throw a right hook. Like Gary V would say, you 182 00:12:57.090 --> 00:13:00.130 could probably just keep throwing out value and just build demand for 183 00:13:00.130 --> 00:13:03.760 whatever it is your expertise is in. And then people just reach out to you 184 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:08.410 provided they know what company you're worth and kind of what you do, like you 185 00:13:08.410 --> 00:13:12.050 don't tell you, I'll tell you what they want to show up and be like, hey we 186 00:13:12.050 --> 00:13:15.910 know you do this stuff, help us. What's your business are you be to be 187 00:13:15.910 --> 00:13:21.110 consulting business, throw out every piece of I. P. And advice you possibly 188 00:13:21.110 --> 00:13:21.660 can. 189 00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:27.430 And if you do that in a really smart consistent way, people will follow you 190 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:31.230 and then some very small percentage might say I'll do it myself, but you 191 00:13:31.230 --> 00:13:35.360 don't want that business, you want the 99% the dote. We have to do it 192 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:38.360 themselves and they want to hire you because they already know you've 193 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:42.000 already sold them right? We talk and B. Two B. Marketing, we always talk about, 194 00:13:42.010 --> 00:13:47.530 we have a buyer's journey. Well that journey could be an hour or it could be 195 00:13:47.530 --> 00:13:51.570 three years. It depends on where they're at and what the what the 196 00:13:51.570 --> 00:13:55.620 biggest pain is. But if you put if you deliver consistently over a long period 197 00:13:55.620 --> 00:14:00.610 of time, let them they'll find their own journey. That's why um you know, 198 00:14:00.610 --> 00:14:04.120 we've been on a lot of consulting engagements, whether they wanted to map 199 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:07.770 out the buyer's journey, which I don't have a problem with, but I had one 200 00:14:07.770 --> 00:14:13.660 company would map that out 50 57 different spots on the buyer's journey 201 00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:17.020 and they're like, we need a piece of content for every one of those. I'm 202 00:14:17.020 --> 00:14:22.050 like well good luck with that because and then tomorrow it's gonna be, you're 203 00:14:22.050 --> 00:14:26.800 gonna have a whole new journey. I mean, it changes, it changes all the time. So 204 00:14:26.810 --> 00:14:31.110 just figure out the big ones, like, so, so figure out, okay, well, I'm gonna 205 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:35.410 create this amazing awareness experience or this, and then this one 206 00:14:35.410 --> 00:14:40.170 amazing right before you buy experience, and then I'm gonna create this one 207 00:14:40.180 --> 00:14:44.890 amazing loyalty experience. If you do those three things pretty well, you 208 00:14:44.890 --> 00:14:47.760 know, you've you've got it covered and you can check the box and say we do a 209 00:14:47.760 --> 00:14:53.880 really good job at content marketing. Then you'd say, okay, What's that big 210 00:14:53.890 --> 00:14:58.250 that media thing that we're talking about? That's the thing where you set 211 00:14:58.250 --> 00:15:01.490 the mission, and you say I was talking about it with, with Robert and 212 00:15:01.490 --> 00:15:05.730 Walgreens today? Well, their goal is basically to make their advertising 213 00:15:05.730 --> 00:15:09.740 better and have 87 people in their group at Walgreens that are doing that. 214 00:15:09.740 --> 00:15:14.540 They're building all this content around ads. That's fine. I have no 215 00:15:14.540 --> 00:15:17.640 problem with that content. Marketing can make advertising better. It can 216 00:15:17.640 --> 00:15:23.930 make pr better, can make everything better. But it's small. To me, I I want 217 00:15:23.930 --> 00:15:29.490 to see them say we want to be the leading healthcare education provider 218 00:15:29.490 --> 00:15:34.620 in the world for this group of people, right? Why can't Walgreens be web MD? 219 00:15:34.630 --> 00:15:40.660 Right? That's right, better. Yeah. Right. Why is so small? What? Because 220 00:15:40.670 --> 00:15:46.340 we're not media companies generally, because there's no reason not to. I 221 00:15:46.340 --> 00:15:54.320 mean, literally Walgreens takes 5% of their worldwide ad budget and they move 222 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:57.860 it over into content. They're spending more than almost every media company on 223 00:15:57.860 --> 00:16:02.200 the planet. You don't really realize that there's totally different metrics. 224 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:07.380 You're like, wow, we yeah, could, could uh I mean if you had these companies 225 00:16:07.380 --> 00:16:13.150 like amazon or put me a bad example, let's say the second tier of companies, 226 00:16:13.160 --> 00:16:18.120 you know, like an AMG or you know, like, like a Cisco systems, if they said they 227 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:24.130 wanted to be the leading informational expert in whatever it is They have, 228 00:16:24.140 --> 00:16:26.920 they have so much, they have 10 times the amount of money than any media 229 00:16:26.920 --> 00:16:31.110 company would ever have because it's different metrics. So, uh, so it's, 230 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:35.330 they don't even know the possibilities. That's why, you know, we can't even get 231 00:16:35.330 --> 00:16:38.540 into it. That's why I think in a lot of cases it might just be easier for them 232 00:16:38.540 --> 00:16:43.560 to buy it, Just go out and buy the media properties. People just like, 233 00:16:43.560 --> 00:16:47.170 well, hot spots like, well just by the hustle, right? Which is great for 234 00:16:47.170 --> 00:16:50.890 companies that have a big enough, You know, more enough cash flow to be able 235 00:16:50.890 --> 00:16:55.670 to afford that kind of stuff. It's cheap though. I mean 20, I I heard, I 236 00:16:55.670 --> 00:17:04.660 don't know what you heard, I heard $27 million 5% of hubspot sales and 237 00:17:04.660 --> 00:17:09.819 marketing budget Come on for 1.5 million opt in email subscribers and a 238 00:17:09.819 --> 00:17:13.910 great brand. Are you kidding me? And they're profitable. This is stuff that 239 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.940 I don't know why more M&A is not Anthony. I'm sorry to interrupt you, 240 00:17:17.950 --> 00:17:21.650 but it's just such a great, that was a steal. If I would've known it would be 241 00:17:21.650 --> 00:17:24.800 for sale for 27 million, I would put some people together and buy it. It 242 00:17:24.810 --> 00:17:28.030 makes me think maybe we should just be buying like even smaller businesses 243 00:17:28.030 --> 00:17:31.460 that aren't as big as hubspot need to be buying independent creators channels 244 00:17:31.840 --> 00:17:34.520 because especially if they're running ads and have enough youtube income 245 00:17:34.520 --> 00:17:37.730 coming off of it to kind of pay for itself. Of course, it's usually more 246 00:17:37.730 --> 00:17:41.890 dependent on the creator, but you know, you could equal higher creators or do 247 00:17:41.890 --> 00:17:45.750 something like that and it's happening. Yeah, it's absolutely happening. It 248 00:17:45.750 --> 00:17:49.800 worked. What didn't work. We came out this week, uh sort of an incubator for 249 00:17:49.800 --> 00:17:55.000 creators in being in the B two B space. That's, this is starting to happen. Any 250 00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:58.000 of these large. Yeah, it doesn't even be a large companies. Some of these 251 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:02.430 deals are low five figures. I want to buy that person's podcast. I want to 252 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:07.720 buy that person's email newsletter. I would have a list if I'm any B two B. 253 00:18:07.730 --> 00:18:11.630 CMO executive director. I've got a list in front of me right now where my 254 00:18:11.630 --> 00:18:16.260 customers hanging out. What podcast, What youtube channels. What email 255 00:18:16.260 --> 00:18:20.170 newsletters? What twitch it, whatever it is. Right, put them all down there. 256 00:18:20.180 --> 00:18:23.630 I'd start building relationships with those people and I'd say okay do we 257 00:18:23.630 --> 00:18:26.040 want to partner with that person? Wouldn't want to do? We want to buy 258 00:18:26.040 --> 00:18:32.200 them and boy what an opportunity and you just don't realize that it just 259 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:37.590 doesn't cost that much. But then again most marketers don't understand the 260 00:18:37.590 --> 00:18:40.330 media and acquisition world and that's why it's helpful to come from 261 00:18:40.330 --> 00:18:44.660 publishing where half of what you do as an executive and B to be publishing is 262 00:18:44.660 --> 00:18:50.480 around them and a hey everybody Logan with sweet fish here. If you're a 263 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:54.200 regular listener of B two B growth, you know that I'm one of the co hosts of 264 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:58.090 the show but you may not know that. I also head up the sales team here at 265 00:18:58.090 --> 00:19:02.400 sweet fish. So for those of you in sales or sales ops I wanted to take a 266 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:06.550 second to share something that's made us insanely more efficient lately. Our 267 00:19:06.550 --> 00:19:10.650 team has been using lead I. Q. For the past few months and what used to take 268 00:19:10.650 --> 00:19:16.110 us four hours gathering contact data now takes us only one where 75 percent 269 00:19:16.120 --> 00:19:20.100 more efficient. We're able to move faster with outbound prospecting and 270 00:19:20.110 --> 00:19:24.810 organizing our campaigns is so much easier than before. I'd highly suggest 271 00:19:24.810 --> 00:19:29.010 you guys check out lead I. Q. As well. You can check them out at lead I. Q. 272 00:19:29.020 --> 00:19:35.960 Dot com. That's L. E A D I. Q dot com. Alright let's get back to the show 273 00:19:36.340 --> 00:19:41.560 amazing deal to be able to buy a marketing channel that pays for itself, 274 00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:48.790 it's immediately and if I know right, what are we doing wrong dad, Why are 275 00:19:48.790 --> 00:19:52.340 people doing this? I don't know. It's probably just takes a few people to get 276 00:19:52.340 --> 00:19:56.010 it going and then, you know, people, people look for safety and other people 277 00:19:56.010 --> 00:19:59.000 doing it and watch what their competitors are doing. So I'm sure now 278 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:02.110 that more and more people are doing, it will snowball and then create an 279 00:20:02.120 --> 00:20:07.140 audience and influence it will probably be the next big, big thing where I've 280 00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:10.910 heard some people say that like the creative marketer, essentially the one 281 00:20:10.910 --> 00:20:17.370 who can grow the audience is going to be the next uh web developer, right? So 282 00:20:17.370 --> 00:20:23.090 we'll see now my theory. I'm one of the reasons why companies don't do this is 283 00:20:23.090 --> 00:20:27.280 that they don't really think about it is trying to hit like a media market 284 00:20:27.290 --> 00:20:32.920 fit now. I just made that up a while ago. But essentially like when creators 285 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:36.490 are trying to build audiences, they keep testing stuff and it usually takes 286 00:20:36.490 --> 00:20:41.790 them a while to figure out what resonates what works what and then they 287 00:20:41.800 --> 00:20:44.380 do a hit piece and they're like, oh, I'll do a little bit more of that and 288 00:20:44.380 --> 00:20:47.420 they do, they experiment a little bit more and they find some hits and 289 00:20:47.420 --> 00:20:50.850 eventually they have a good thing going, they found out what their niche was, 290 00:20:51.340 --> 00:20:55.060 but it takes a long time to find it now. Companies just usually don't have the 291 00:20:55.060 --> 00:20:58.140 patience or have the even the thinking to approach it with that kind of 292 00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:01.420 approach. Think about like what problem are we solving? What are we even 293 00:21:01.420 --> 00:21:05.020 talking to? They usually just have a hypothesis and go at it. Some of them 294 00:21:05.020 --> 00:21:09.260 get lucky with the hypothesis, but most of them don't continually experiment 295 00:21:09.260 --> 00:21:12.830 like an entrepreneur would trying to find a product market fit, but that's 296 00:21:12.830 --> 00:21:15.820 how creators approach it. At least the successful ones that I've seen out 297 00:21:15.820 --> 00:21:19.970 there linkedin twitter wherever they're creating content. And I'd say that's 298 00:21:19.970 --> 00:21:24.420 probably a big thinking peace beyond just not investing enough into it. That 299 00:21:24.420 --> 00:21:29.890 slows most people down. Here's the thing with B. Two B marketers and that 300 00:21:29.900 --> 00:21:32.450 everything that you're talking about, I think that 301 00:21:33.540 --> 00:21:40.650 we undervalue consistency and we undervalue focus in this whole thing 302 00:21:40.650 --> 00:21:46.410 that you and I are discussing because everyone thing you think, oh content 303 00:21:46.410 --> 00:21:49.720 marketing, content creation, I gotta be on all the channels. You got to be 304 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:53.860 doing all the things. But then to your point, if you look at the ones that are 305 00:21:53.860 --> 00:21:58.480 really successful, They're focusing for the most part on one channel, they've 306 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:02.080 got their podcast, their email newsletter, their Youtube, they're 307 00:22:02.080 --> 00:22:06.130 testing out topics on that channel, but they're doing it consistently over a 308 00:22:06.130 --> 00:22:11.320 long period of time. And if you're going to go do this in A B. Two B. 309 00:22:11.320 --> 00:22:15.150 Enterprise and I've been in a lot of them, you have to not only focus on, 310 00:22:15.150 --> 00:22:19.590 here's my thing that I'm doing on this one or two channels. I'm staying really 311 00:22:19.590 --> 00:22:23.290 focused. I have to make sure that at the same time I'm doing internal 312 00:22:23.290 --> 00:22:29.420 marketing, Especially in B two B. You have to make the case every week for 313 00:22:29.420 --> 00:22:34.280 why you're doing this. So you can keep doing it because you get a new cmon, 314 00:22:34.290 --> 00:22:38.500 you get a new director in, you get a new ceo in everything changes all the 315 00:22:38.500 --> 00:22:42.770 time. So you have to sell. And I would send it not only to your immediate 316 00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:48.410 bosses or the people that work around you. I would send it to everyone who 317 00:22:48.410 --> 00:22:54.820 touches the financials and has has a part in your budget and send them a 318 00:22:54.820 --> 00:22:58.770 package that could be a regular podcast that you do internally. It could be a 319 00:22:58.770 --> 00:23:02.460 regular email newsletter. It could be a report that you would actually send 320 00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:06.170 them in the mail or in her office or whatever you use today. But put that 321 00:23:06.170 --> 00:23:10.410 together and make that case because most content, marketing programs get 322 00:23:10.410 --> 00:23:13.320 cut, not because they're not performing. It's because somebody in the 323 00:23:13.320 --> 00:23:17.360 organization does not understand. And it would make sense because we're 324 00:23:17.360 --> 00:23:22.400 talking about publishing. We're not talking about marketing and it's no, 325 00:23:22.410 --> 00:23:26.680 you know, we just happened to wake up the in the last 10 years and realize 326 00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:31.200 that it's it's the same thing in a lot of cases, but marketers that have been 327 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:35.700 taught this from school or wherever they learned it, they never, they never 328 00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:41.010 said, okay, well, first I have to focus on building my base and okay, what 329 00:23:41.010 --> 00:23:43.390 channel is that going to be on? And then I've got to have what we call a 330 00:23:43.390 --> 00:23:47.310 content till you mentioned it. What's your differentiation area? What's your 331 00:23:47.310 --> 00:23:51.400 hook, what makes you special? You gotta work those things out? Well, you know, 332 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:56.100 I can't focus on three audiences at the same time. I have to focus on one. Well, 333 00:23:56.100 --> 00:24:01.070 even though we have 6-9 buyer personas, I can't send them all the same thing 334 00:24:01.080 --> 00:24:04.870 because it's not relevant enough. So I really have to do what audience at the 335 00:24:04.870 --> 00:24:08.460 time. So these are like, Okay, yeah, it's sort of like marketing, but no, 336 00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:13.050 not really. Okay, well then maybe I shouldn't be on the 17 different 337 00:24:13.050 --> 00:24:16.900 channels and creating content all those. Maybe I should just focus on one. Like 338 00:24:16.910 --> 00:24:21.150 every great media company has since the dawn of time. We think that just 339 00:24:21.150 --> 00:24:24.600 because we have all the channels, we need to do all the things and that's 340 00:24:24.600 --> 00:24:27.880 the worst thing. That would be a big company can do. The best thing you can 341 00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:30.910 do is just focus on doing one or two things not. You could be in social 342 00:24:30.910 --> 00:24:34.750 media, that's fine. I'm like, where does the story happen? What it needs to 343 00:24:34.750 --> 00:24:38.850 be one place and do that and then once you build that audience, you want to 344 00:24:38.850 --> 00:24:44.160 have an own audience opt in subscribers. That means emails probably king. So 345 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:47.000 you're going back to email even if you're gonna build on rented land, you 346 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:51.050 want to have some strategy to own property. And then when you do all 347 00:24:51.050 --> 00:24:55.560 those things then you can think about revenue and diversification. It's good. 348 00:24:55.570 --> 00:24:59.590 I usually think about it in two platform strategy where I usually have 349 00:24:59.590 --> 00:25:03.860 a short form and long form it could be twitter and youtube or linkedin and 350 00:25:03.860 --> 00:25:07.700 podcasting usually. Yeah, I think that would work well. I think that's great. 351 00:25:07.700 --> 00:25:11.730 I mean we I see a 12 combination in a lot of cases if they've got an email 352 00:25:11.730 --> 00:25:15.790 newsletter then maybe they're leveraging twitter linked in or it 353 00:25:15.790 --> 00:25:19.640 could be podcast email newsletter that work in combo. I've seen that work 354 00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:23.520 really well in the B two B side where somebody has a podcast but you know we 355 00:25:23.520 --> 00:25:28.590 don't love podcast necessarily because I don't control the distribution there 356 00:25:28.590 --> 00:25:32.430 that Apple and Spotify control though. So what do I do? Well I want to make 357 00:25:32.430 --> 00:25:37.560 sure I've got really good offers for an incredibly valuable email newsletter so 358 00:25:37.560 --> 00:25:40.900 they can subscribe to that that I get that opted information that first party 359 00:25:40.900 --> 00:25:43.770 data that I can't get anywhere else anymore because all these privacy 360 00:25:43.770 --> 00:25:48.720 things. So that's probably we didn't even mention it but that's probably one 361 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:53.800 of the one of the biggest movers or will be of this move to media or move 362 00:25:53.800 --> 00:25:58.060 to content marketing is the fact that you've got these other platforms that 363 00:25:58.060 --> 00:26:01.390 won't give you the data anymore and they can't because of all the privacy 364 00:26:01.390 --> 00:26:05.250 stuff and whatever. So who wins? Well those that those companies with first 365 00:26:05.250 --> 00:26:08.150 party data who has first party data, those companies that have built 366 00:26:08.150 --> 00:26:12.280 audiences hang out. I know it's even getting harder even with email, you 367 00:26:12.280 --> 00:26:17.610 know, apple swapping out there or swapping out their fake email addresses 368 00:26:17.610 --> 00:26:21.110 and just forwarding it to you so you don't even really know who they are. So 369 00:26:21.110 --> 00:26:24.190 usually contract some kind of consistency per user. So it's getting 370 00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:29.700 getting harder there too. Yeah. And that's where Well this is a whole, 371 00:26:29.710 --> 00:26:32.490 probably a whole another show we can talk about some time but I think we're 372 00:26:32.490 --> 00:26:37.800 in peak web two mode right now. I think you know, these big platforms google 373 00:26:37.800 --> 00:26:42.220 and facebook and youtube, they're going to be profitable for a long, long time. 374 00:26:42.220 --> 00:26:45.220 But we're gonna start, we're seeing the move from centralization and 375 00:26:45.220 --> 00:26:50.930 decentralization. You, you have to be blind not to see it. So what does that 376 00:26:50.930 --> 00:26:54.860 mean? That that means that we should start thinking about off platform 377 00:26:54.860 --> 00:26:59.740 activities if you're a B two B the company you can't just think about 378 00:26:59.750 --> 00:27:04.820 linked in and Youtube and I can use those two as part of my sales strategy. 379 00:27:04.830 --> 00:27:09.770 Yeah, you can Absolutely. But I think we should start thinking off platform 380 00:27:09.770 --> 00:27:13.620 as well and that means you have to have some kind of owned property that you 381 00:27:13.620 --> 00:27:17.650 control. That makes a lot of sense where I saw a crypto ticker at the top 382 00:27:17.650 --> 00:27:25.800 of your website till coin. Uh Yeah I mean we I mean thinking plan that way 383 00:27:25.810 --> 00:27:30.720 we've been. Yeah we launched that in March. And my my belief is I mean we're 384 00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:36.290 a little early to the game but my my belief is the internet of today and the 385 00:27:36.290 --> 00:27:42.580 future runs on a token. You can call whatever you want. But so are you look 386 00:27:42.580 --> 00:27:45.810 at your customer, look at from a B two B company standpoint. Not, I mean I 387 00:27:45.820 --> 00:27:48.840 look at it from a creative standpoint, but if you're looking at from a B to B. 388 00:27:48.850 --> 00:27:53.950 Marketers standpoint, you're all about the customer experience. Well how can 389 00:27:53.950 --> 00:27:57.650 you create amazing differentiated customer experience? You can do that 390 00:27:57.650 --> 00:28:00.460 with content. Absolutely. We just talked about that. You can also do it 391 00:28:00.460 --> 00:28:04.160 with a token. So all these rewards programs, these loyalty programs are 392 00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:10.150 all going to go token based where they the token has a value in and of itself 393 00:28:10.150 --> 00:28:13.750 and then they get access to certain things that you offer as a company 394 00:28:13.760 --> 00:28:16.880 through the tokens and that's what we do with the tilt. So you get so many 395 00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:21.110 till you get access to a piece of content. You get some more tilt, you 396 00:28:21.110 --> 00:28:24.290 get access to V. I. P. You can talk to the team, you can talk to me, you know 397 00:28:24.290 --> 00:28:28.430 all kinds of different things and it's worked really well and I could see B. 398 00:28:28.430 --> 00:28:33.120 Two B. Companies using this just like they do everything else. So I mean 399 00:28:33.120 --> 00:28:37.820 every in 10 years every company will have a token of some kind doing 400 00:28:37.820 --> 00:28:40.980 something. It doesn't mean that everyone has a Cryptocurrency like we 401 00:28:40.980 --> 00:28:44.600 think we're all in a Bitcoin and ethereum. No I'm talking about more 402 00:28:44.610 --> 00:28:48.960 utility tokens and we've got to we've got to get prepared for that right now. 403 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:53.260 So anyone listening to this, you got you should be experimenting listening 404 00:28:53.260 --> 00:28:58.370 to podcasts, figuring out what you know what our social tokens or community 405 00:28:58.370 --> 00:29:02.830 token some people call them or creator coins. You know what why is the token 406 00:29:02.830 --> 00:29:07.830 so important now? You should start you go buy an N. F. T. Even if it's five 407 00:29:07.830 --> 00:29:12.140 bucks just go buy it. Go figure out the process, get yourself a digital wallet, 408 00:29:12.150 --> 00:29:15.940 we're gonna be we're gonna be there really really quickly and B. Two B. And 409 00:29:15.940 --> 00:29:19.700 I don't think a lot of marketers are anticipating that. That's interesting. 410 00:29:19.710 --> 00:29:23.300 I mean I wasn't planning on talking about the whole decentralization 411 00:29:23.300 --> 00:29:26.940 platform but remember Gary V. Did a big push for a back in March. So I did the 412 00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:30.760 deal, I got the crypto wallet. I didn't buy into his N. F. T. Thing. But I 413 00:29:30.760 --> 00:29:34.690 bought some N. F. T. S. Got my experience learned. Uh It was good and 414 00:29:34.690 --> 00:29:38.570 I certainly saw enough to be like okay this is definitely the future. I just 415 00:29:38.570 --> 00:29:41.830 don't know when it's gonna happen that's right now, the gas prices were 416 00:29:41.830 --> 00:29:44.810 just so high that you were just kind of like man to move money around or to buy 417 00:29:44.810 --> 00:29:50.220 anything just really expensive. So clearly it's not right now but this is 418 00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:54.250 going to be a thing. Um So I'm tracking with you there. Um There is one 419 00:29:54.250 --> 00:29:57.270 question I want to I don't want to go off on a tangent there, but I don't 420 00:29:57.270 --> 00:30:00.280 almost that's almost the whole another podcast and that's gonna be, you know, 421 00:30:00.280 --> 00:30:03.790 we can talk about B. Two B. And tokenization, that's the next. I 422 00:30:03.800 --> 00:30:07.520 haven't seen any B. Two B. Marketers talk about it at all. I've only heard 423 00:30:07.520 --> 00:30:11.920 it on the B. Two C. Side. So that might be an interesting thing. Um But I did 424 00:30:11.930 --> 00:30:16.420 notice that with the tilt you have essentially flipped the game, it seems 425 00:30:16.430 --> 00:30:20.150 like you were talking to businesses about how to be content creators and 426 00:30:20.150 --> 00:30:22.600 now you're talking to content creators about how to build businesses. Is that 427 00:30:22.600 --> 00:30:27.660 right? That's yeah that's pretty much it. I mean I spent the 1st 20 years of 428 00:30:27.660 --> 00:30:33.520 my career uh teaching marketers how to be publishers in essence and and 429 00:30:33.520 --> 00:30:37.350 working around this whole thing called content marketing. And uh and I enjoyed 430 00:30:37.350 --> 00:30:42.120 it and I love it. The biggest challenge for me was the fact that if we went in 431 00:30:42.120 --> 00:30:46.350 and we would teach an enterprise marketing team all about what they need 432 00:30:46.350 --> 00:30:49.240 to do or should do or change the process of whatever most of the times 433 00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:53.200 that nothing happened and that's that's that's how it is that it's all 434 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:56.670 marketing works in big enterprise companies, it just moves really slow. 435 00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:01.240 So now I'm you know working with the creator who can make decisions 436 00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:04.900 immediately because it's it's an owner, it's one owner you convinced that owner 437 00:31:04.900 --> 00:31:07.110 there's no red tape, there's no politics they can go through and so 438 00:31:07.110 --> 00:31:10.750 you're seeing a lot of innovation happen on the token side, on the 439 00:31:10.760 --> 00:31:15.480 content side on everything. And that's what I did. My I spoke a content 440 00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:19.470 marketing world last month and that was my presentation. Like here's what 441 00:31:19.470 --> 00:31:23.050 content marketers can learn from content entrepreneurs. And so yeah, 442 00:31:23.050 --> 00:31:26.770 we're all in this launched the tilt business in in april we launched it as 443 00:31:26.770 --> 00:31:30.650 an email newsletter twice a week. Again, owned media. We're eating our own dog 444 00:31:30.650 --> 00:31:34.600 food here. We focus on twitter and linkedin sort of as our primary social 445 00:31:34.600 --> 00:31:39.630 channels. But the token or tilt coin is at the center of everything. So 446 00:31:39.630 --> 00:31:44.260 basically how do we do it? I mean so people can use it If you would if you 447 00:31:44.260 --> 00:31:50.240 sign up for our email newsletter you get $5 until coin. If you refer someone 448 00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:53.520 else to it, you get five more dollars. So it's all referral program. All of 449 00:31:53.520 --> 00:31:57.940 our subscriptions are driven through referrals, most of them are. And so 450 00:31:57.940 --> 00:32:01.810 we've got people who started early with us in March. Uh you know they have 451 00:32:01.810 --> 00:32:06.040 thousands of dollars worth of of till coin by the way, real money, You know 452 00:32:06.040 --> 00:32:09.190 where it's not a pump and dump scheme. But if you wanted to, you know if you 453 00:32:09.190 --> 00:32:14.810 had 20 until Dan and you could sell that for a year, you know in the rally 454 00:32:14.810 --> 00:32:17.560 into the theory. I mean you've got yourself some some real paper dollars 455 00:32:17.570 --> 00:32:22.170 if you if you want. But we really focus on the access. So it's really a content 456 00:32:22.170 --> 00:32:27.820 play it really because if you get five till coin you get an exclusive content 457 00:32:27.820 --> 00:32:31.580 drop every month if you're V. I. P. Program in the V. I. P. Program which 458 00:32:31.580 --> 00:32:36.780 is 20 you get access to our training program for free just as part of it 459 00:32:36.780 --> 00:32:40.760 because you're our V. I. P. S. So we can do some really cool things and I 460 00:32:40.760 --> 00:32:45.210 guess I don't want to go too far into the token thing but I've never seen a 461 00:32:45.210 --> 00:32:49.390 loyalty program like this and I've been around for a while. I had a full head 462 00:32:49.390 --> 00:32:56.000 of hair when we I started in this business. And it's crazy that people 463 00:32:56.010 --> 00:33:00.550 that's new, they're like oh my god this is real stuff and they get into it and 464 00:33:00.550 --> 00:33:05.940 they mark it for you and it's just a new kind of experience. So if you're a 465 00:33:05.940 --> 00:33:09.740 B. Two B. Marketing and you're thinking for wow. Yeah I mean we want to create 466 00:33:09.740 --> 00:33:13.200 amazing positive experiences for our customers and audience, there's 467 00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:17.980 something there and yeah, so anyways our whole goal, teach content creators 468 00:33:17.980 --> 00:33:22.190 how to be content entrepreneurs and build sustainable uh you know 469 00:33:22.190 --> 00:33:29.640 financially secure lives and um it's fun. I love seeing independent People, 470 00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:35.470 one or two people grow a team of 20 multimillionaires, successful exit or 471 00:33:35.470 --> 00:33:38.970 not. And that's what we're trying to teach him a business model. That's 472 00:33:38.970 --> 00:33:40.060 really interesting. So 473 00:33:41.340 --> 00:33:45.570 let me see if I can interpret what you're doing with the tilt and the the 474 00:33:45.580 --> 00:33:50.400 tokenization here essentially you're kind of gamifying consumption and it's 475 00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:54.780 different than other game, like like for example a game that I just recently 476 00:33:54.780 --> 00:33:58.470 download is my nine year old daughter like loves it. It's called Cross the 477 00:33:58.470 --> 00:34:02.010 Road, right? You tap the screen, the chicken goes over the road trying to 478 00:34:02.020 --> 00:34:07.520 get hit by a car, right? She loves it. Yeah, you earn points and those turn 479 00:34:07.520 --> 00:34:11.550 into coins and you can use the coins to buy different in game things. New 480 00:34:11.550 --> 00:34:16.489 people, you can replace the chicken. I think I have a Scottish bagpiper like 481 00:34:16.489 --> 00:34:20.409 walking across the road now, I don't know why, but now is that one? The 482 00:34:20.409 --> 00:34:24.219 problem with that is you can't take those coins anywhere outside across the 483 00:34:24.219 --> 00:34:29.670 road, but if you're using tokens you can, which is why the tilt coin is more 484 00:34:29.670 --> 00:34:32.409 interesting because yes, you could probably use it to buy stuff with the 485 00:34:32.409 --> 00:34:38.179 tilt, there might be things that you sell products, events courses, more 486 00:34:38.179 --> 00:34:41.850 premium, buy this t shirt that I've got on right now if you want to you can 487 00:34:41.860 --> 00:34:45.310 cost you like five till coin or something. You can buy this. Do not 488 00:34:45.310 --> 00:34:50.330 build your house on rented land T shirt if you want to. Yeah, you're right your 489 00:34:50.330 --> 00:34:55.060 stuff but you can cash out and switch it into different cryptocurrencies, 490 00:34:55.070 --> 00:34:59.570 ethereum Bitcoin, whatever it needs to be and Georgia strait to cash, so it's 491 00:34:59.570 --> 00:35:02.500 more flexible it becomes, it creates kind of like there's a lot of 492 00:35:02.500 --> 00:35:05.120 conversation about the metaverse because of facebook but ultimately it's 493 00:35:05.120 --> 00:35:10.600 creating a interchangeable system that actually works well this is what you've 494 00:35:10.600 --> 00:35:15.450 hit upon is this is the big thing that I'm trying to figure out. I've been 495 00:35:15.450 --> 00:35:18.240 writing a lot about it, I'm going down the rabbit hole and this idea of 496 00:35:18.240 --> 00:35:22.390 digital property. So we're getting like you mentioned that game, it's the same 497 00:35:22.390 --> 00:35:27.600 thing, right? My my son plays Valerie, he's one of the top players in the 498 00:35:27.600 --> 00:35:31.640 world on Valerie. He's it's a first person shooter game. So he let's say he 499 00:35:31.640 --> 00:35:38.000 gets a sword and he's spent a lot of money by that sword. Well today, right? 500 00:35:38.010 --> 00:35:42.360 Just like your cross the road thing, you can only use it in that game well 501 00:35:42.370 --> 00:35:46.750 and pretty soon you'll be able to take that too, whatever other game you want 502 00:35:46.750 --> 00:35:49.870 to and you'll be able to take that and sell that on the open market for 503 00:35:49.870 --> 00:35:52.210 somebody else, something else. And that's what we're seeing with N. F. T. 504 00:35:52.210 --> 00:35:57.370 S. Right? That's and that's how it's it's working. Um So that's the power of 505 00:35:57.370 --> 00:36:02.100 the token where if you think, okay well I've got all I've got all these things 506 00:36:02.100 --> 00:36:06.220 around me, Everything is a non fungible token around me, right? This have this 507 00:36:06.220 --> 00:36:10.170 drink. This drink here is my that's non fungible that my computer is non 508 00:36:10.170 --> 00:36:13.970 fungible. It's all unique. Well you're gonna have digital property as well as 509 00:36:13.970 --> 00:36:19.450 the same thing. Uh That all right now we just look at them as jpeg but they 510 00:36:19.450 --> 00:36:23.070 all have usage, they all have utility and I think that's what's really 511 00:36:23.070 --> 00:36:26.920 getting exciting for for me to be events since getting back to be to be 512 00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:30.770 here. Um And that's where N. F. T. S. Are going to be strong in the next year. 513 00:36:30.780 --> 00:36:35.810 I would imagine that most by the end of next year, most big business to 514 00:36:35.810 --> 00:36:40.390 business trade shows will have some non fungible token component where you can 515 00:36:40.390 --> 00:36:44.500 buy a never what I call a never ending ticket and you can buy a ticket to this 516 00:36:44.500 --> 00:36:47.720 event. You'll have it on your digital wallet at all times. And here's the 517 00:36:47.720 --> 00:36:51.310 difference between uh the ticket that you always bought in the past. It gets 518 00:36:51.310 --> 00:36:54.880 you into the event all the maybe V. I. P. Party all this stuff the difference 519 00:36:54.880 --> 00:37:00.680 is I own this ticket forever. And I can sell this to you dan if I don't want to 520 00:37:00.680 --> 00:37:03.450 go anywhere let's say change the industry. Well this this ticket is 521 00:37:03.450 --> 00:37:07.970 worth $5000 because I bought a never ending ticket. I'm gonna now I'm going 522 00:37:07.970 --> 00:37:12.330 to pass it over to you, take that example and think of it with everything 523 00:37:12.340 --> 00:37:15.800 online that we want to do and I don't need you don't even have to put on your 524 00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:20.550 meta verse Oculus helmet to go down that rabbit hole. All you have to know 525 00:37:20.550 --> 00:37:23.910 is that Yeah I'm going to have things that I'm gonna want digitally that our 526 00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:28.220 subscriptions, all those things are going to have a token behind it. And we 527 00:37:28.220 --> 00:37:32.480 do a really bad marketing job of calling them an N. F. T. Or hft when we 528 00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:36.370 really just have to say yeah it's property, it's digital property and 529 00:37:36.370 --> 00:37:41.060 every one of those everything that has uh some kind of digital property 530 00:37:41.060 --> 00:37:45.350 component has a contract underneath it. A smart contract that says how it works 531 00:37:45.730 --> 00:37:51.410 and you know where the trust is and all that stuff and here we are. And B. Two 532 00:37:51.410 --> 00:37:56.470 B. Is going to be transformed by it. And uh most of the time when I talk to 533 00:37:56.470 --> 00:38:00.060 marketers about it's like deer in headlights but in the year won't be a 534 00:38:00.060 --> 00:38:04.150 year will be like oh man we're still behind the curve. Like remember like 535 00:38:04.150 --> 00:38:07.470 market marketing automation came out was like oh my God all we got is email 536 00:38:07.470 --> 00:38:11.000 and now we got in the marketing automation and you saw this rush, all 537 00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:13.980 these marketing automation platforms. Well this is going to be like that on 538 00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:17.670 steroids, so people are going, oh my God, how are we going to connect with 539 00:38:17.670 --> 00:38:22.770 our customers? We can do it this way. The good news is we've got time because 540 00:38:22.770 --> 00:38:27.060 there's only what, 10 million meta mask wallets out there right now, growing 541 00:38:27.070 --> 00:38:31.780 exponentially, so don't worry if you're listening to this, we're still very, 542 00:38:31.780 --> 00:38:37.110 very early. Just just start just start learning about it. So my last question, 543 00:38:37.120 --> 00:38:41.930 I wanted to wrap up on the tilt the flip from business to creator from 544 00:38:41.930 --> 00:38:45.300 creator to business. Do you find that it's easier to teach creators how to 545 00:38:45.300 --> 00:38:48.840 start businesses and businesses have been to become creators. 546 00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.880 Is it any more? It's not, I don't think it's any more difficult. It's just 547 00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:57.900 different, it's just it's just different. I mean there's uh give an 548 00:38:57.900 --> 00:39:03.890 example, my friends daughter runs a brewery, they're really good, they 549 00:39:03.890 --> 00:39:08.330 understand the beer making process really, really well, but they didn't 550 00:39:08.330 --> 00:39:12.390 understand all the things about marketing and supply chain and all 551 00:39:12.390 --> 00:39:16.500 those things that go with it. It's so it's the same thing with the creator, 552 00:39:16.500 --> 00:39:21.970 right? So a content creator might understand, oh well I I know how to 553 00:39:21.970 --> 00:39:26.510 create this podcast and distribute it with lipson and to get people to listen 554 00:39:26.510 --> 00:39:30.670 to it, but I don't know how to do brand partnerships, I don't know how to set 555 00:39:30.670 --> 00:39:33.920 up subscription programs. I don't know how to hire freelancers. I don't know 556 00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:37.290 how to do contracts for those freelancers. I don't know how to do 557 00:39:37.290 --> 00:39:40.710 Proforma scheduling. I don't know how to do. You know, I don't know how to 558 00:39:40.710 --> 00:39:43.750 launch a product or a service or anything like that and build the 559 00:39:43.750 --> 00:39:49.470 business. So yeah, you have that then. Uh, the business side of teaching them 560 00:39:49.470 --> 00:39:55.750 how to be creators. The it's the it's the we talked about it, it's the 561 00:39:55.750 --> 00:40:01.690 impatience, it's very hard to train patients in a big company that 562 00:40:01.700 --> 00:40:05.170 especially a public company that has quarterly numbers. They have to hit. 563 00:40:05.180 --> 00:40:11.760 It's almost impossible. You almost have to run it like a stealth project. Get 564 00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:15.120 it off the books somewhere. Run it as a pilot program and say, we're going to 565 00:40:15.120 --> 00:40:18.440 do this. Nobody pay attention, We just throw a million dollars over here, 566 00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:23.510 please. Nobody to ignore these people. They're going to create this thing and 567 00:40:23.510 --> 00:40:27.010 we're going to test it out. It's gonna be it's almost like what is it? The 568 00:40:27.020 --> 00:40:31.730 google? 20% where google employees can do Anything they want with 20% of the 569 00:40:31.730 --> 00:40:35.050 time. We need to think the same thing about our marketing. So I think a lot 570 00:40:35.050 --> 00:40:38.340 of the things we talked about today, it would be like, look, we know these 571 00:40:38.340 --> 00:40:40.900 things are really important but we don't have a good handle on them. So 572 00:40:40.900 --> 00:40:44.900 let's take this 20%, some of that might be organic, some of that might be 573 00:40:44.910 --> 00:40:49.210 purchased. Well we're gonna, we're gonna be an incubator for all the 574 00:40:49.210 --> 00:40:54.060 little creators in our industry. Well, what a great idea that would be. And 575 00:40:54.060 --> 00:40:58.020 just say, hey, just keep, we're gonna fund, you keep doing your thing and 576 00:40:58.020 --> 00:41:01.950 building audience and then as you see it come together and you listen to to 577 00:41:01.950 --> 00:41:04.990 the audience and figure out what their needs are and figure out where that 578 00:41:04.990 --> 00:41:08.140 database overlaps with your database should be like, oh, now I'm starting to 579 00:41:08.140 --> 00:41:11.930 think I could see the business, I can see the different revenue lines, what 580 00:41:11.930 --> 00:41:13.140 an opportunity that would be. 581 00:41:15.010 --> 00:41:19.000 Well, that's good to know. I always wondered, I'm like, I'm like, I'm more 582 00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:21.560 on the business side trying to learn how to become a creator more and more. 583 00:41:21.560 --> 00:41:25.150 And I work for a content marketing agency as sweet fish media. We, we do 584 00:41:25.150 --> 00:41:29.960 podcasting. So I get content, but at the same time it's the growing an 585 00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:34.150 audience is difficult. It's not easy. And starting a company, a profitable 586 00:41:34.150 --> 00:41:38.760 company isn't easy either. Almost wondered if it was easier to, or harder 587 00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:42.690 to grow an audience as it was to start a company. I've certainly seen creators 588 00:41:42.690 --> 00:41:47.460 with millions of YouTube subscribers struggle to get more than $100,000 a 589 00:41:47.460 --> 00:41:53.100 year in profit, right? And you're like, Huh? Because I've seen some business 590 00:41:53.100 --> 00:41:59.080 savvy creators with 100,000, you know, uh, subscribers tens of thousands of 591 00:41:59.080 --> 00:42:03.810 views of video making millions of dollars. Right? So there's definitely, 592 00:42:03.810 --> 00:42:10.830 I mean, they're both extremely difficult. If I have my choice, I I 593 00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:16.710 would like to walk in with the audience in hand, I can monetize that audience 594 00:42:16.710 --> 00:42:19.490 all that. I mean, I can do a lot of different things so big. So creating 595 00:42:19.490 --> 00:42:25.430 the business from that audience is it would be easier for me to do it. 596 00:42:25.430 --> 00:42:29.750 Sometimes it's not for a business with the wrong mission statement. But that's 597 00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:32.970 if I had my choice, that's what I would take because if you have the audience, 598 00:42:32.970 --> 00:42:36.400 you're already a few steps ahead on What you would need for the business. 599 00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:39.820 You already know what your target demos are. You already have some, a lot of 600 00:42:39.820 --> 00:42:43.500 information to work with. And you could do a lot of product market research to 601 00:42:43.500 --> 00:42:47.670 find out what they want and you jump to the front, you can test it, jump to the 602 00:42:47.670 --> 00:42:52.960 front of the line, right? You've jumped, you just skipped probably 18-24 months 603 00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:58.300 of time. That's the and that's that makes the business case for buying and 604 00:42:58.300 --> 00:43:02.980 outside properties. So you don't have to take all that time. Although I would, 605 00:43:02.990 --> 00:43:05.820 I would say that there is a lot of benefits to going through the learning 606 00:43:06.200 --> 00:43:09.660 pains and the struggles of understanding that audience, but you 607 00:43:09.660 --> 00:43:13.410 can't skip and and just buy your way there. Yeah, the audience might outlive 608 00:43:13.410 --> 00:43:14.020 the business, 609 00:43:15.200 --> 00:43:20.440 right? That's another fun thing. But man, I would almost, I think maybe 610 00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:24.440 we'll talk afterwards about doing another episode about your your token 611 00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:29.250 journey there, but for now joe this has been fantastic. Where can people go to 612 00:43:29.250 --> 00:43:33.570 learn more about what you're currently doing with the tilt and anything else 613 00:43:33.570 --> 00:43:37.450 you have going on? That's that's worth mentioning now. Sure, thank you. Yeah, 614 00:43:37.460 --> 00:43:40.770 so the tilt dot com, if you like what we talked about, that's what we talk 615 00:43:40.770 --> 00:43:44.540 about all the time. You know how to be a better content creator. I'm at joe 616 00:43:44.540 --> 00:43:50.510 palette. CPU L I Z Z I uh just about every social channel you can dM me, my 617 00:43:50.510 --> 00:43:54.900 latest book is content inc came out in May and it talks about the seven step 618 00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:59.100 process for building an audience with limited resources. So if that's 619 00:43:59.100 --> 00:44:01.350 something that you're looking forward to in your department, you can take 620 00:44:01.350 --> 00:44:05.590 this seven step model and plug it in basically to any B two B organization 621 00:44:05.590 --> 00:44:11.680 and as long as your patient, as long as you've got the Taib, you can make it 622 00:44:11.680 --> 00:44:15.220 work absolutely fantastic. Again, thanks for joining me on GDP growth. 623 00:44:15.230 --> 00:44:17.110 Thanks dan, 624 00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:23.780 is your buyer at B two B marketer. If so you should think about sponsoring 625 00:44:23.780 --> 00:44:28.050 this podcast. BtB Growth gets downloaded over 130,000 times each 626 00:44:28.050 --> 00:44:31.560 month. And our listeners are marketing decision makers. If it sounds 627 00:44:31.560 --> 00:44:37.510 interesting, send Logan and email Logan at sweet fish media dot com. Mm hmm