Transcript
WEBVTT
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Mhm
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Welcome back to BTB Growth. I'm dan
Sanchez with sweet fish media and today
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I'm talking to joe policy, who is the
founder of the tilt the content
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marketing institute and is the author
of content inc joe. Welcome to the show
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dan. Thanks for having me. I appreciate
it. Today we're gonna be talking about
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the current state of owned earned and
paid media with B two B marketing and I
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wanted to kick it off with one question,
especially since joe you've kind of
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been like the king of owned media for
for a while now. But I feel like as
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long as I've been in marketing, like
over 10 years now, I've been hearing
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people like champion the phrase like we
need to become like media companies,
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marketing needs to become like media.
And it's been, they've been saying this
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for a long time. I remember first
hearing that was a social media manager
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and I was like, yeah, this is, this is
what we need to do, this is the future.
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10 years from now, everybody is going
to be doing this. But today, I can't
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say I see a lot of that happening right
now. I see people, they post a social a
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little bit. They got a company blog. I
can't say that we've reached the media
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company Mark, what do you think
stopping most businesses from getting
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there?
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Well, it's a good point. I think first
of all you have to realize that in most
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large enterprises they're pretty
substantial. Media companies already
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built. It's just nobody talks about him.
It's funny because it's just on our
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podcast with robert rose, this old
marketing. And we were talking about
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Walgreens, Walgreens. Well, has a brand
new content studio. Well, they've
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really had it for a while. Somebody
just caught wind of it. Media company
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covered it. It's almost like back in
the day where if you had a custom
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magazine, nobody really knew about it
because it wasn't on the newsstand, it
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was delivered to customers. So you
never knew this stuff was going on. So
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I guess just to address the fact that a
lot of this stuff is going on. But Yeah,
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is it going on as seriously as I would
like to see it? Or to your 0.10 years
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ago, I've been in this industry now for
21, almost 22 years, I've been in the
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content marketing industry and we've
been saying the same things in the same
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opportunity. It's still very tough when
you're going one direction and you're
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focused on marketing a product or
service to turn a little bit, it's a
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brand new muscle that most
organizations aren't used to using. So
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it's this is going to happen over
decades. So I would, I guess I would
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say companies don't have to do this
right. You know, that you've been
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around for a long time. Uh not everyone
has a content marketing strategy. Most
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companies are using dabbling in content
marketing. They've got their blog,
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they've got their, you know, their
podcast going on and they're hoping
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it's additive to their to their product
sales or keeping customers longer, or
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whatever, the big opportunity, and
that's maybe we'll maybe we'll finally
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see in the next couple of years is the
fact that If you really dedicate
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yourself to building an audience does
take time, maybe that's maybe that's
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the issue. It takes 9-12 to 18 months,
it's outside the campaign cycle, you've
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got to invest in it, and you've got to
expect no return for the first year. So,
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you know, talk to a CMO about that and
they were probably like, oh, I gotta
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make those quarterly numbers. Maybe you
don't want to do that, maybe we don't
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want to expand on that. But now, I
think you're, you're getting into Web
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three, you're getting into a lot of
experimentation. You're seeing things
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like Facebook being, you know, shut
down for a day. You've got businesses
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that are tied to Facebook, they're
completely helpless. You're thinking,
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uh maybe we should control our own
destiny a little bit more. Uh maybe
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we've given too much power to the
linkedin's the twitters and the
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Facebooks of the world, and they now
have these massive audience because of
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what we've done. Um I don't know, kind
of rambling on the whole thing, I guess.
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I would, I'd like to say that really
innovative companies over the next 12
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to 24 months are going to take us all
by surprise, and we're going to say,
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wow, we had no idea, we had no idea
that intel or we had no idea that Cisco
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systems, we had no idea that some of
these other large B two B companies had
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such grand plans for building audiences
in whatever way they're doing it,
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whether that's on twitch or whether
it's on Youtube or whether it's a
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podcast or whatever. So I think that we
just did, I think more than anything,
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we need to wake up and say that this is
a lot of cases is happening. And then
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the ones that are listening to this
where you're just dabbling, well, I
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would just say either do it or don't do
it. You don't have to do it, you could
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interrupt people forever. You can just
do paid media earned media great. Just
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keep doing that. But the, I don't think
they understand the big opportunities
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of own media. It sounds like what
you're saying a bit is like companies
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are taking advantage on, it are doing
the media stuff. They're hiring media
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teams, they're building studios,
they're hiring writers, Maybe even some
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journalists, right? But they're not
necessarily building audience unless
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you're counting their customer base as
an audience. Um do you see that being
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kind of like the defining thing between
them and what a media company would do
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because if your immediate company and
you don't have an audience, Well,
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you're probably not going to be in
business that long. I think it's, well,
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you, you have customer audience efforts.
I mean their loyalty programs, we've
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been doing them forever. I think what's
missing on the marketing side is that
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marketers, content marketers don't
understand that there are 10 different
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ways that you can drive revenue from an
audience. And generally if you're a B
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two B company, you're looking at one, I
want more product sales, I want lead
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gen, you know, so I'm gonna build an
audience that we're gonna try to
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extract value from that audience one
way. Well if your immediate, so let's
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take the media example. I mean, I've
been immediate professional for 21
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years. I build an audience initially.
Right now. There could be more in the
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next year. Right now. There are 10
different ways that I can drive revenue.
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I can, I can drive revenue six direct
race. I can drive revenue through
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advertising sponsorship. I can drive
revenue through events, sponsorships,
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event conferences. I could do it
through premium content, like books or
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e books. I could do it through
donations. I could do it through uh,
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subscriptions and I could do it through
affiliate marketing. So great. Those
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are my six. And by the way, marketers
don't think about any of that except
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for companies like salesforce that have
dream force or big conferences or
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whatever. And then you've got the
levers on the outside. So you've got, I
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want, then you've got, I want to drive
product sales. I want to have services
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sales. I want more loyal customers or I
want to create better customers or
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increased yield, that's your 10. So how
many content creators think about those
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opportunities in that way? Not many.
And that's why I think the the CMO of
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the future in A B two B organization
has half marketing expertise, have
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publishing expertise, because
publishers innately already think about
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these things. We already know. We need
to diversify our revenue streams
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immediately. Marketers think I have to
hit X sales goals this quarter. So what
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do I have to do in a very short period
of time to interrupt people or get them
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to do what kind of behavior change? I
want them to to do that thing in a
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short period of time, terrible,
terrible. What do you think about the
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art of publishing? Because it's because
we're trying to build a loyal
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relationship with an audience that
knows likes and trusts us. If we do
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that well, we'll see some kind of
behavior change or maintenance of
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behavior. So I think that's where as
marketers, we need to expand our
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thinking and say, okay, well, let's say
that daniel premises is correct and we
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all should be media companies, which I
do. We already are media companies,
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then we have to become serious about
the revenue pass for media companies
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and just extend of just this is the KPI
which might be an initial hypothesis.
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But what's next? It's interesting, I
find that it's usually the revenue that
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gets people in trouble when especially
in B two B. Right? Because they're
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trying to extract value so quickly that
it's practically an advertorial or it's
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about their product or or it's just
about their expertise and the people
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they attract to their blog, their
podcast is their competitors, let alone
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the person who is not already reading
that kind of stuff that needs their
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help the most. Right? But what you're
saying, or at least what I hear you
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saying, there's like the it's like not
just how a BBB company would think
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about adding more revenue streams
because they could think about like a
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tech company could add more software
products or maybe unbundle their
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current software product to be multiple
pieces. But you're talking about adding
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revenue streams. Like a publisher would
add revenue streams. I almost think
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about is not adding revenue streams
about diversifying the audience more
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places where you can add value, more
places where you can build
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relationships and trust is that kind of
what you're saying? Or is the revenue
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piece really important. I think that
once you, so take your customer out of
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it for a second and say, we're trying
to build a community if we're trying to
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build a community and you've done that
really well. The opportunities for all
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sorts of different types of revenue
opportunities and all sorts of learning
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opportunities and research and
development, everything changes. So I
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almost would prefer if you're a B2B
company going into this, you almost
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take take your have your hypothesis of
revenue, but but take it off the table
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for a second because the longer that we
can go without pushing some kind of a
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revenue product or sales or service or
whatever, the more focus we are we're
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we have on the audience, the more focus
we have in our other needs are pain
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points, their desires and their better.
We will serve them. And that's that's
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the winners. And then then down the
road you can get to be Red Bull Media
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House, right? That's that's like we'll
be Red Bull or Air Electronics who is
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the largest Media Company in the B two
B Electronic Space. It's not immediate
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company, it's error electronics, brands,
three million opt in subscribers. They
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each one of those brands are profitable
in and of themselves. So think about
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that if you're a marketing person
listening to this, each one of that
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group of 53 publications that generate,
I don't know how many millions of
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dollars they are profitable in and of
themselves. Not an expense. Like we
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would think our marketing department is
don't expect. No, they're not. And they
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kick off more product and service sales.
So they do the content marketing thing
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to get the goals. But also there is
this amazing, this is a it could be, we
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could spin it off as its own business.
I'm friends with some of the people
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over Cleveland clinic. They finally got
to, they are cost neutral for the
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publication for the, for the hospital.
So, wow, you never thought that that
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was a possibility. But you know, here
we are. It's it's funny like I'm trying
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to, to your question, you know, what
advice would we want to give a B two B
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marketer? I'd almost say, please, first
for a second, take off your marketing
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hat. And look at the bigger possibility.
Don't just look at nine months. Look at
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five years. Look, I mean, we were lucky
because, you know, we had, I was we
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were patient and content marketing
institute in 2007. We were, we were
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lucky to say, I know content marketing
is going to be a thing, but it's not
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going to be a thing in nine months. So
we had a road map it out and we said,
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if we build an audience, we know that
other thing. We know there could be a
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big event. We know there could be
training, we know that, you know, we
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could we could sign up the largest
enterprises in the world, but not now.
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No. So we almost have to wait. And we
were in an advantage because of that.
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You wouldn't think so because we really
wanted to eat and I really wanted to
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pay the bills. But I knew that that was
the right direction. So I think that
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give your team some leeway, focus on
focus on an audience goal instead of a
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revenue goal. So say, we call this a
minimum viable audience, let's say you
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have an email newsletter that you're
launching. Give your email newsletter
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team. Just say, I don't want to talk
about any revenue generation
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or KPI s on the sales side until you
hit 10,000 opt in subscribers,
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like real subscribers that are really
opening the email newsletter or if it's
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a podcast downloads whatever your
metric is. And then when you get to
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that point, you can, you can look at
and say, okay, well maybe now we can
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start to put on the monetization. Uh,
it just works a heck of a lot better.
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And if you look at some of the greatest
content marketing examples on the
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planet, they've all done that. They've
all said, look, we're just heads down,
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we're gonna build this audience. And
then once we do, we'll see where we're
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at and we'll see what makes the most
sense from a revenue standpoint. It's
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interesting in some ways, Depending on
the types of content you're putting out,
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you might not ever have to throw a
right hook. Like Gary V would say, you
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could probably just keep throwing out
value and just build demand for
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whatever it is your expertise is in.
And then people just reach out to you
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provided they know what company you're
worth and kind of what you do, like you
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don't tell you, I'll tell you what they
want to show up and be like, hey we
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know you do this stuff, help us. What's
your business are you be to be
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consulting business, throw out every
piece of I. P. And advice you possibly
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can.
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And if you do that in a really smart
consistent way, people will follow you
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and then some very small percentage
might say I'll do it myself, but you
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don't want that business, you want the
99% the dote. We have to do it
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themselves and they want to hire you
because they already know you've
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already sold them right? We talk and B.
Two B. Marketing, we always talk about,
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we have a buyer's journey. Well that
journey could be an hour or it could be
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three years. It depends on where
they're at and what the what the
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biggest pain is. But if you put if you
deliver consistently over a long period
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of time, let them they'll find their
own journey. That's why um you know,
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we've been on a lot of consulting
engagements, whether they wanted to map
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out the buyer's journey, which I don't
have a problem with, but I had one
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company would map that out 50 57
different spots on the buyer's journey
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and they're like, we need a piece of
content for every one of those. I'm
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like well good luck with that because
and then tomorrow it's gonna be, you're
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gonna have a whole new journey. I mean,
it changes, it changes all the time. So
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just figure out the big ones, like, so,
so figure out, okay, well, I'm gonna
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create this amazing awareness
experience or this, and then this one
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amazing right before you buy experience,
and then I'm gonna create this one
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amazing loyalty experience. If you do
those three things pretty well, you
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know, you've you've got it covered and
you can check the box and say we do a
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really good job at content marketing.
Then you'd say, okay, What's that big
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that media thing that we're talking
about? That's the thing where you set
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the mission, and you say I was talking
about it with, with Robert and
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Walgreens today? Well, their goal is
basically to make their advertising
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better and have 87 people in their
group at Walgreens that are doing that.
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They're building all this content
around ads. That's fine. I have no
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problem with that content. Marketing
can make advertising better. It can
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make pr better, can make everything
better. But it's small. To me, I I want
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to see them say we want to be the
leading healthcare education provider
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in the world for this group of people,
right? Why can't Walgreens be web MD?
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Right? That's right, better. Yeah.
Right. Why is so small? What? Because
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we're not media companies generally,
because there's no reason not to. I
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mean, literally Walgreens takes 5% of
their worldwide ad budget and they move
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it over into content. They're spending
more than almost every media company on
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the planet. You don't really realize
that there's totally different metrics.
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You're like, wow, we yeah, could, could
uh I mean if you had these companies
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like amazon or put me a bad example,
let's say the second tier of companies,
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you know, like an AMG or you know, like,
like a Cisco systems, if they said they
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wanted to be the leading informational
expert in whatever it is They have,
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they have so much, they have 10 times
the amount of money than any media
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company would ever have because it's
different metrics. So, uh, so it's,
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they don't even know the possibilities.
That's why, you know, we can't even get
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into it. That's why I think in a lot of
cases it might just be easier for them
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to buy it, Just go out and buy the
media properties. People just like,
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well, hot spots like, well just by the
hustle, right? Which is great for
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companies that have a big enough, You
know, more enough cash flow to be able
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to afford that kind of stuff. It's
cheap though. I mean 20, I I heard, I
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don't know what you heard, I heard $27
million 5% of hubspot sales and
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marketing budget Come on for 1.5
million opt in email subscribers and a
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great brand. Are you kidding me? And
they're profitable. This is stuff that
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I don't know why more M&A is not
Anthony. I'm sorry to interrupt you,
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but it's just such a great, that was a
steal. If I would've known it would be
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for sale for 27 million, I would put
some people together and buy it. It
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makes me think maybe we should just be
buying like even smaller businesses
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that aren't as big as hubspot need to
be buying independent creators channels
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because especially if they're running
ads and have enough youtube income
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coming off of it to kind of pay for
itself. Of course, it's usually more
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dependent on the creator, but you know,
you could equal higher creators or do
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something like that and it's happening.
Yeah, it's absolutely happening. It
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worked. What didn't work. We came out
this week, uh sort of an incubator for
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creators in being in the B two B space.
That's, this is starting to happen. Any
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of these large. Yeah, it doesn't even
be a large companies. Some of these
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deals are low five figures. I want to
buy that person's podcast. I want to
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buy that person's email newsletter. I
would have a list if I'm any B two B.
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CMO executive director. I've got a list
in front of me right now where my
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customers hanging out. What podcast,
What youtube channels. What email
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newsletters? What twitch it, whatever
it is. Right, put them all down there.
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I'd start building relationships with
those people and I'd say okay do we
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want to partner with that person?
Wouldn't want to do? We want to buy
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them and boy what an opportunity and
you just don't realize that it just
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doesn't cost that much. But then again
most marketers don't understand the
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media and acquisition world and that's
why it's helpful to come from
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publishing where half of what you do as
an executive and B to be publishing is
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around them and a hey everybody Logan
with sweet fish here. If you're a
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regular listener of B two B growth, you
know that I'm one of the co hosts of
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00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:58.090
the show but you may not know that. I
also head up the sales team here at
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00:18:58.090 --> 00:19:02.400
sweet fish. So for those of you in
sales or sales ops I wanted to take a
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00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:06.550
second to share something that's made
us insanely more efficient lately. Our
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00:19:06.550 --> 00:19:10.650
team has been using lead I. Q. For the
past few months and what used to take
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00:19:10.650 --> 00:19:16.110
us four hours gathering contact data
now takes us only one where 75 percent
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00:19:16.120 --> 00:19:20.100
more efficient. We're able to move
faster with outbound prospecting and
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00:19:20.110 --> 00:19:24.810
organizing our campaigns is so much
easier than before. I'd highly suggest
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00:19:24.810 --> 00:19:29.010
you guys check out lead I. Q. As well.
You can check them out at lead I. Q.
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00:19:29.020 --> 00:19:35.960
Dot com. That's L. E A D I. Q dot com.
Alright let's get back to the show
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amazing deal to be able to buy a
marketing channel that pays for itself,
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it's immediately and if I know right,
what are we doing wrong dad, Why are
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people doing this? I don't know. It's
probably just takes a few people to get
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it going and then, you know, people,
people look for safety and other people
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doing it and watch what their
competitors are doing. So I'm sure now
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that more and more people are doing, it
will snowball and then create an
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audience and influence it will probably
be the next big, big thing where I've
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heard some people say that like the
creative marketer, essentially the one
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who can grow the audience is going to
be the next uh web developer, right? So
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we'll see now my theory. I'm one of the
reasons why companies don't do this is
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that they don't really think about it
is trying to hit like a media market
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fit now. I just made that up a while
ago. But essentially like when creators
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are trying to build audiences, they
keep testing stuff and it usually takes
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them a while to figure out what
resonates what works what and then they
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do a hit piece and they're like, oh,
I'll do a little bit more of that and
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they do, they experiment a little bit
more and they find some hits and
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eventually they have a good thing going,
they found out what their niche was,
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but it takes a long time to find it now.
Companies just usually don't have the
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patience or have the even the thinking
to approach it with that kind of
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approach. Think about like what problem
are we solving? What are we even
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talking to? They usually just have a
hypothesis and go at it. Some of them
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get lucky with the hypothesis, but most
of them don't continually experiment
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like an entrepreneur would trying to
find a product market fit, but that's
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how creators approach it. At least the
successful ones that I've seen out
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there linkedin twitter wherever they're
creating content. And I'd say that's
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probably a big thinking peace beyond
just not investing enough into it. That
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slows most people down. Here's the
thing with B. Two B marketers and that
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everything that you're talking about, I
think that
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we undervalue consistency and we
undervalue focus in this whole thing
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that you and I are discussing because
everyone thing you think, oh content
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marketing, content creation, I gotta be
on all the channels. You got to be
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doing all the things. But then to your
point, if you look at the ones that are
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really successful, They're focusing for
the most part on one channel, they've
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got their podcast, their email
newsletter, their Youtube, they're
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testing out topics on that channel, but
they're doing it consistently over a
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long period of time. And if you're
going to go do this in A B. Two B.
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Enterprise and I've been in a lot of
them, you have to not only focus on,
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here's my thing that I'm doing on this
one or two channels. I'm staying really
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focused. I have to make sure that at
the same time I'm doing internal
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marketing, Especially in B two B. You
have to make the case every week for
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why you're doing this. So you can keep
doing it because you get a new cmon,
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you get a new director in, you get a
new ceo in everything changes all the
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time. So you have to sell. And I would
send it not only to your immediate
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bosses or the people that work around
you. I would send it to everyone who
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touches the financials and has has a
part in your budget and send them a
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package that could be a regular podcast
that you do internally. It could be a
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regular email newsletter. It could be a
report that you would actually send
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them in the mail or in her office or
whatever you use today. But put that
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together and make that case because
most content, marketing programs get
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cut, not because they're not performing.
It's because somebody in the
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organization does not understand. And
it would make sense because we're
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talking about publishing. We're not
talking about marketing and it's no,
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you know, we just happened to wake up
the in the last 10 years and realize
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that it's it's the same thing in a lot
of cases, but marketers that have been
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taught this from school or wherever
they learned it, they never, they never
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said, okay, well, first I have to focus
on building my base and okay, what
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channel is that going to be on? And
then I've got to have what we call a
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content till you mentioned it. What's
your differentiation area? What's your
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hook, what makes you special? You gotta
work those things out? Well, you know,
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I can't focus on three audiences at the
same time. I have to focus on one. Well,
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even though we have 6-9 buyer personas,
I can't send them all the same thing
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because it's not relevant enough. So I
really have to do what audience at the
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time. So these are like, Okay, yeah,
it's sort of like marketing, but no,
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not really. Okay, well then maybe I
shouldn't be on the 17 different
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channels and creating content all those.
Maybe I should just focus on one. Like
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every great media company has since the
dawn of time. We think that just
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because we have all the channels, we
need to do all the things and that's
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the worst thing. That would be a big
company can do. The best thing you can
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do is just focus on doing one or two
things not. You could be in social
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media, that's fine. I'm like, where
does the story happen? What it needs to
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be one place and do that and then once
you build that audience, you want to
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have an own audience opt in subscribers.
That means emails probably king. So
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you're going back to email even if
you're gonna build on rented land, you
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want to have some strategy to own
property. And then when you do all
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those things then you can think about
revenue and diversification. It's good.
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I usually think about it in two
platform strategy where I usually have
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a short form and long form it could be
twitter and youtube or linkedin and
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podcasting usually. Yeah, I think that
would work well. I think that's great.
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I mean we I see a 12 combination in a
lot of cases if they've got an email
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newsletter then maybe they're
leveraging twitter linked in or it
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could be podcast email newsletter that
work in combo. I've seen that work
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really well in the B two B side where
somebody has a podcast but you know we
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don't love podcast necessarily because
I don't control the distribution there
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that Apple and Spotify control though.
So what do I do? Well I want to make
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sure I've got really good offers for an
incredibly valuable email newsletter so
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they can subscribe to that that I get
that opted information that first party
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data that I can't get anywhere else
anymore because all these privacy
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things. So that's probably we didn't
even mention it but that's probably one
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of the one of the biggest movers or
will be of this move to media or move
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to content marketing is the fact that
you've got these other platforms that
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won't give you the data anymore and
they can't because of all the privacy
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stuff and whatever. So who wins? Well
those that those companies with first
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party data who has first party data,
those companies that have built
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audiences hang out. I know it's even
getting harder even with email, you
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know, apple swapping out there or
swapping out their fake email addresses
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and just forwarding it to you so you
don't even really know who they are. So
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usually contract some kind of
consistency per user. So it's getting
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getting harder there too. Yeah. And
that's where Well this is a whole,
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probably a whole another show we can
talk about some time but I think we're
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in peak web two mode right now. I think
you know, these big platforms google
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and facebook and youtube, they're going
to be profitable for a long, long time.
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But we're gonna start, we're seeing the
move from centralization and
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decentralization. You, you have to be
blind not to see it. So what does that
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mean? That that means that we should
start thinking about off platform
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activities if you're a B two B the
company you can't just think about
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linked in and Youtube and I can use
those two as part of my sales strategy.
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Yeah, you can Absolutely. But I think
we should start thinking off platform
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as well and that means you have to have
some kind of owned property that you
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00:27:13.620 --> 00:27:17.650
control. That makes a lot of sense
where I saw a crypto ticker at the top
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of your website till coin. Uh Yeah I
mean we I mean thinking plan that way
383
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we've been. Yeah we launched that in
March. And my my belief is I mean we're
384
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:36.290
a little early to the game but my my
belief is the internet of today and the
385
00:27:36.290 --> 00:27:42.580
future runs on a token. You can call
whatever you want. But so are you look
386
00:27:42.580 --> 00:27:45.810
at your customer, look at from a B two
B company standpoint. Not, I mean I
387
00:27:45.820 --> 00:27:48.840
look at it from a creative standpoint,
but if you're looking at from a B to B.
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Marketers standpoint, you're all about
the customer experience. Well how can
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you create amazing differentiated
customer experience? You can do that
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with content. Absolutely. We just
talked about that. You can also do it
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with a token. So all these rewards
programs, these loyalty programs are
392
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all going to go token based where they
the token has a value in and of itself
393
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and then they get access to certain
things that you offer as a company
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through the tokens and that's what we
do with the tilt. So you get so many
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till you get access to a piece of
content. You get some more tilt, you
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00:28:21.110 --> 00:28:24.290
get access to V. I. P. You can talk to
the team, you can talk to me, you know
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00:28:24.290 --> 00:28:28.430
all kinds of different things and it's
worked really well and I could see B.
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00:28:28.430 --> 00:28:33.120
Two B. Companies using this just like
they do everything else. So I mean
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every in 10 years every company will
have a token of some kind doing
400
00:28:37.820 --> 00:28:40.980
something. It doesn't mean that
everyone has a Cryptocurrency like we
401
00:28:40.980 --> 00:28:44.600
think we're all in a Bitcoin and
ethereum. No I'm talking about more
402
00:28:44.610 --> 00:28:48.960
utility tokens and we've got to we've
got to get prepared for that right now.
403
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:53.260
So anyone listening to this, you got
you should be experimenting listening
404
00:28:53.260 --> 00:28:58.370
to podcasts, figuring out what you know
what our social tokens or community
405
00:28:58.370 --> 00:29:02.830
token some people call them or creator
coins. You know what why is the token
406
00:29:02.830 --> 00:29:07.830
so important now? You should start you
go buy an N. F. T. Even if it's five
407
00:29:07.830 --> 00:29:12.140
bucks just go buy it. Go figure out the
process, get yourself a digital wallet,
408
00:29:12.150 --> 00:29:15.940
we're gonna be we're gonna be there
really really quickly and B. Two B. And
409
00:29:15.940 --> 00:29:19.700
I don't think a lot of marketers are
anticipating that. That's interesting.
410
00:29:19.710 --> 00:29:23.300
I mean I wasn't planning on talking
about the whole decentralization
411
00:29:23.300 --> 00:29:26.940
platform but remember Gary V. Did a big
push for a back in March. So I did the
412
00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:30.760
deal, I got the crypto wallet. I didn't
buy into his N. F. T. Thing. But I
413
00:29:30.760 --> 00:29:34.690
bought some N. F. T. S. Got my
experience learned. Uh It was good and
414
00:29:34.690 --> 00:29:38.570
I certainly saw enough to be like okay
this is definitely the future. I just
415
00:29:38.570 --> 00:29:41.830
don't know when it's gonna happen
that's right now, the gas prices were
416
00:29:41.830 --> 00:29:44.810
just so high that you were just kind of
like man to move money around or to buy
417
00:29:44.810 --> 00:29:50.220
anything just really expensive. So
clearly it's not right now but this is
418
00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:54.250
going to be a thing. Um So I'm tracking
with you there. Um There is one
419
00:29:54.250 --> 00:29:57.270
question I want to I don't want to go
off on a tangent there, but I don't
420
00:29:57.270 --> 00:30:00.280
almost that's almost the whole another
podcast and that's gonna be, you know,
421
00:30:00.280 --> 00:30:03.790
we can talk about B. Two B. And
tokenization, that's the next. I
422
00:30:03.800 --> 00:30:07.520
haven't seen any B. Two B. Marketers
talk about it at all. I've only heard
423
00:30:07.520 --> 00:30:11.920
it on the B. Two C. Side. So that might
be an interesting thing. Um But I did
424
00:30:11.930 --> 00:30:16.420
notice that with the tilt you have
essentially flipped the game, it seems
425
00:30:16.430 --> 00:30:20.150
like you were talking to businesses
about how to be content creators and
426
00:30:20.150 --> 00:30:22.600
now you're talking to content creators
about how to build businesses. Is that
427
00:30:22.600 --> 00:30:27.660
right? That's yeah that's pretty much
it. I mean I spent the 1st 20 years of
428
00:30:27.660 --> 00:30:33.520
my career uh teaching marketers how to
be publishers in essence and and
429
00:30:33.520 --> 00:30:37.350
working around this whole thing called
content marketing. And uh and I enjoyed
430
00:30:37.350 --> 00:30:42.120
it and I love it. The biggest challenge
for me was the fact that if we went in
431
00:30:42.120 --> 00:30:46.350
and we would teach an enterprise
marketing team all about what they need
432
00:30:46.350 --> 00:30:49.240
to do or should do or change the
process of whatever most of the times
433
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:53.200
that nothing happened and that's that's
that's how it is that it's all
434
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:56.670
marketing works in big enterprise
companies, it just moves really slow.
435
00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:01.240
So now I'm you know working with the
creator who can make decisions
436
00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:04.900
immediately because it's it's an owner,
it's one owner you convinced that owner
437
00:31:04.900 --> 00:31:07.110
there's no red tape, there's no
politics they can go through and so
438
00:31:07.110 --> 00:31:10.750
you're seeing a lot of innovation
happen on the token side, on the
439
00:31:10.760 --> 00:31:15.480
content side on everything. And that's
what I did. My I spoke a content
440
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:19.470
marketing world last month and that was
my presentation. Like here's what
441
00:31:19.470 --> 00:31:23.050
content marketers can learn from
content entrepreneurs. And so yeah,
442
00:31:23.050 --> 00:31:26.770
we're all in this launched the tilt
business in in april we launched it as
443
00:31:26.770 --> 00:31:30.650
an email newsletter twice a week. Again,
owned media. We're eating our own dog
444
00:31:30.650 --> 00:31:34.600
food here. We focus on twitter and
linkedin sort of as our primary social
445
00:31:34.600 --> 00:31:39.630
channels. But the token or tilt coin is
at the center of everything. So
446
00:31:39.630 --> 00:31:44.260
basically how do we do it? I mean so
people can use it If you would if you
447
00:31:44.260 --> 00:31:50.240
sign up for our email newsletter you
get $5 until coin. If you refer someone
448
00:31:50.240 --> 00:31:53.520
else to it, you get five more dollars.
So it's all referral program. All of
449
00:31:53.520 --> 00:31:57.940
our subscriptions are driven through
referrals, most of them are. And so
450
00:31:57.940 --> 00:32:01.810
we've got people who started early with
us in March. Uh you know they have
451
00:32:01.810 --> 00:32:06.040
thousands of dollars worth of of till
coin by the way, real money, You know
452
00:32:06.040 --> 00:32:09.190
where it's not a pump and dump scheme.
But if you wanted to, you know if you
453
00:32:09.190 --> 00:32:14.810
had 20 until Dan and you could sell
that for a year, you know in the rally
454
00:32:14.810 --> 00:32:17.560
into the theory. I mean you've got
yourself some some real paper dollars
455
00:32:17.570 --> 00:32:22.170
if you if you want. But we really focus
on the access. So it's really a content
456
00:32:22.170 --> 00:32:27.820
play it really because if you get five
till coin you get an exclusive content
457
00:32:27.820 --> 00:32:31.580
drop every month if you're V. I. P.
Program in the V. I. P. Program which
458
00:32:31.580 --> 00:32:36.780
is 20 you get access to our training
program for free just as part of it
459
00:32:36.780 --> 00:32:40.760
because you're our V. I. P. S. So we
can do some really cool things and I
460
00:32:40.760 --> 00:32:45.210
guess I don't want to go too far into
the token thing but I've never seen a
461
00:32:45.210 --> 00:32:49.390
loyalty program like this and I've been
around for a while. I had a full head
462
00:32:49.390 --> 00:32:56.000
of hair when we I started in this
business. And it's crazy that people
463
00:32:56.010 --> 00:33:00.550
that's new, they're like oh my god this
is real stuff and they get into it and
464
00:33:00.550 --> 00:33:05.940
they mark it for you and it's just a
new kind of experience. So if you're a
465
00:33:05.940 --> 00:33:09.740
B. Two B. Marketing and you're thinking
for wow. Yeah I mean we want to create
466
00:33:09.740 --> 00:33:13.200
amazing positive experiences for our
customers and audience, there's
467
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:17.980
something there and yeah, so anyways
our whole goal, teach content creators
468
00:33:17.980 --> 00:33:22.190
how to be content entrepreneurs and
build sustainable uh you know
469
00:33:22.190 --> 00:33:29.640
financially secure lives and um it's
fun. I love seeing independent People,
470
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:35.470
one or two people grow a team of 20
multimillionaires, successful exit or
471
00:33:35.470 --> 00:33:38.970
not. And that's what we're trying to
teach him a business model. That's
472
00:33:38.970 --> 00:33:40.060
really interesting. So
473
00:33:41.340 --> 00:33:45.570
let me see if I can interpret what
you're doing with the tilt and the the
474
00:33:45.580 --> 00:33:50.400
tokenization here essentially you're
kind of gamifying consumption and it's
475
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:54.780
different than other game, like like
for example a game that I just recently
476
00:33:54.780 --> 00:33:58.470
download is my nine year old daughter
like loves it. It's called Cross the
477
00:33:58.470 --> 00:34:02.010
Road, right? You tap the screen, the
chicken goes over the road trying to
478
00:34:02.020 --> 00:34:07.520
get hit by a car, right? She loves it.
Yeah, you earn points and those turn
479
00:34:07.520 --> 00:34:11.550
into coins and you can use the coins to
buy different in game things. New
480
00:34:11.550 --> 00:34:16.489
people, you can replace the chicken. I
think I have a Scottish bagpiper like
481
00:34:16.489 --> 00:34:20.409
walking across the road now, I don't
know why, but now is that one? The
482
00:34:20.409 --> 00:34:24.219
problem with that is you can't take
those coins anywhere outside across the
483
00:34:24.219 --> 00:34:29.670
road, but if you're using tokens you
can, which is why the tilt coin is more
484
00:34:29.670 --> 00:34:32.409
interesting because yes, you could
probably use it to buy stuff with the
485
00:34:32.409 --> 00:34:38.179
tilt, there might be things that you
sell products, events courses, more
486
00:34:38.179 --> 00:34:41.850
premium, buy this t shirt that I've got
on right now if you want to you can
487
00:34:41.860 --> 00:34:45.310
cost you like five till coin or
something. You can buy this. Do not
488
00:34:45.310 --> 00:34:50.330
build your house on rented land T shirt
if you want to. Yeah, you're right your
489
00:34:50.330 --> 00:34:55.060
stuff but you can cash out and switch
it into different cryptocurrencies,
490
00:34:55.070 --> 00:34:59.570
ethereum Bitcoin, whatever it needs to
be and Georgia strait to cash, so it's
491
00:34:59.570 --> 00:35:02.500
more flexible it becomes, it creates
kind of like there's a lot of
492
00:35:02.500 --> 00:35:05.120
conversation about the metaverse
because of facebook but ultimately it's
493
00:35:05.120 --> 00:35:10.600
creating a interchangeable system that
actually works well this is what you've
494
00:35:10.600 --> 00:35:15.450
hit upon is this is the big thing that
I'm trying to figure out. I've been
495
00:35:15.450 --> 00:35:18.240
writing a lot about it, I'm going down
the rabbit hole and this idea of
496
00:35:18.240 --> 00:35:22.390
digital property. So we're getting like
you mentioned that game, it's the same
497
00:35:22.390 --> 00:35:27.600
thing, right? My my son plays Valerie,
he's one of the top players in the
498
00:35:27.600 --> 00:35:31.640
world on Valerie. He's it's a first
person shooter game. So he let's say he
499
00:35:31.640 --> 00:35:38.000
gets a sword and he's spent a lot of
money by that sword. Well today, right?
500
00:35:38.010 --> 00:35:42.360
Just like your cross the road thing,
you can only use it in that game well
501
00:35:42.370 --> 00:35:46.750
and pretty soon you'll be able to take
that too, whatever other game you want
502
00:35:46.750 --> 00:35:49.870
to and you'll be able to take that and
sell that on the open market for
503
00:35:49.870 --> 00:35:52.210
somebody else, something else. And
that's what we're seeing with N. F. T.
504
00:35:52.210 --> 00:35:57.370
S. Right? That's and that's how it's
it's working. Um So that's the power of
505
00:35:57.370 --> 00:36:02.100
the token where if you think, okay well
I've got all I've got all these things
506
00:36:02.100 --> 00:36:06.220
around me, Everything is a non fungible
token around me, right? This have this
507
00:36:06.220 --> 00:36:10.170
drink. This drink here is my that's non
fungible that my computer is non
508
00:36:10.170 --> 00:36:13.970
fungible. It's all unique. Well you're
gonna have digital property as well as
509
00:36:13.970 --> 00:36:19.450
the same thing. Uh That all right now
we just look at them as jpeg but they
510
00:36:19.450 --> 00:36:23.070
all have usage, they all have utility
and I think that's what's really
511
00:36:23.070 --> 00:36:26.920
getting exciting for for me to be
events since getting back to be to be
512
00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:30.770
here. Um And that's where N. F. T. S.
Are going to be strong in the next year.
513
00:36:30.780 --> 00:36:35.810
I would imagine that most by the end of
next year, most big business to
514
00:36:35.810 --> 00:36:40.390
business trade shows will have some non
fungible token component where you can
515
00:36:40.390 --> 00:36:44.500
buy a never what I call a never ending
ticket and you can buy a ticket to this
516
00:36:44.500 --> 00:36:47.720
event. You'll have it on your digital
wallet at all times. And here's the
517
00:36:47.720 --> 00:36:51.310
difference between uh the ticket that
you always bought in the past. It gets
518
00:36:51.310 --> 00:36:54.880
you into the event all the maybe V. I.
P. Party all this stuff the difference
519
00:36:54.880 --> 00:37:00.680
is I own this ticket forever. And I can
sell this to you dan if I don't want to
520
00:37:00.680 --> 00:37:03.450
go anywhere let's say change the
industry. Well this this ticket is
521
00:37:03.450 --> 00:37:07.970
worth $5000 because I bought a never
ending ticket. I'm gonna now I'm going
522
00:37:07.970 --> 00:37:12.330
to pass it over to you, take that
example and think of it with everything
523
00:37:12.340 --> 00:37:15.800
online that we want to do and I don't
need you don't even have to put on your
524
00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:20.550
meta verse Oculus helmet to go down
that rabbit hole. All you have to know
525
00:37:20.550 --> 00:37:23.910
is that Yeah I'm going to have things
that I'm gonna want digitally that our
526
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:28.220
subscriptions, all those things are
going to have a token behind it. And we
527
00:37:28.220 --> 00:37:32.480
do a really bad marketing job of
calling them an N. F. T. Or hft when we
528
00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:36.370
really just have to say yeah it's
property, it's digital property and
529
00:37:36.370 --> 00:37:41.060
every one of those everything that has
uh some kind of digital property
530
00:37:41.060 --> 00:37:45.350
component has a contract underneath it.
A smart contract that says how it works
531
00:37:45.730 --> 00:37:51.410
and you know where the trust is and all
that stuff and here we are. And B. Two
532
00:37:51.410 --> 00:37:56.470
B. Is going to be transformed by it.
And uh most of the time when I talk to
533
00:37:56.470 --> 00:38:00.060
marketers about it's like deer in
headlights but in the year won't be a
534
00:38:00.060 --> 00:38:04.150
year will be like oh man we're still
behind the curve. Like remember like
535
00:38:04.150 --> 00:38:07.470
market marketing automation came out
was like oh my God all we got is email
536
00:38:07.470 --> 00:38:11.000
and now we got in the marketing
automation and you saw this rush, all
537
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:13.980
these marketing automation platforms.
Well this is going to be like that on
538
00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:17.670
steroids, so people are going, oh my
God, how are we going to connect with
539
00:38:17.670 --> 00:38:22.770
our customers? We can do it this way.
The good news is we've got time because
540
00:38:22.770 --> 00:38:27.060
there's only what, 10 million meta mask
wallets out there right now, growing
541
00:38:27.070 --> 00:38:31.780
exponentially, so don't worry if you're
listening to this, we're still very,
542
00:38:31.780 --> 00:38:37.110
very early. Just just start just start
learning about it. So my last question,
543
00:38:37.120 --> 00:38:41.930
I wanted to wrap up on the tilt the
flip from business to creator from
544
00:38:41.930 --> 00:38:45.300
creator to business. Do you find that
it's easier to teach creators how to
545
00:38:45.300 --> 00:38:48.840
start businesses and businesses have
been to become creators.
546
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.880
Is it any more? It's not, I don't think
it's any more difficult. It's just
547
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:57.900
different, it's just it's just
different. I mean there's uh give an
548
00:38:57.900 --> 00:39:03.890
example, my friends daughter runs a
brewery, they're really good, they
549
00:39:03.890 --> 00:39:08.330
understand the beer making process
really, really well, but they didn't
550
00:39:08.330 --> 00:39:12.390
understand all the things about
marketing and supply chain and all
551
00:39:12.390 --> 00:39:16.500
those things that go with it. It's so
it's the same thing with the creator,
552
00:39:16.500 --> 00:39:21.970
right? So a content creator might
understand, oh well I I know how to
553
00:39:21.970 --> 00:39:26.510
create this podcast and distribute it
with lipson and to get people to listen
554
00:39:26.510 --> 00:39:30.670
to it, but I don't know how to do brand
partnerships, I don't know how to set
555
00:39:30.670 --> 00:39:33.920
up subscription programs. I don't know
how to hire freelancers. I don't know
556
00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:37.290
how to do contracts for those
freelancers. I don't know how to do
557
00:39:37.290 --> 00:39:40.710
Proforma scheduling. I don't know how
to do. You know, I don't know how to
558
00:39:40.710 --> 00:39:43.750
launch a product or a service or
anything like that and build the
559
00:39:43.750 --> 00:39:49.470
business. So yeah, you have that then.
Uh, the business side of teaching them
560
00:39:49.470 --> 00:39:55.750
how to be creators. The it's the it's
the we talked about it, it's the
561
00:39:55.750 --> 00:40:01.690
impatience, it's very hard to train
patients in a big company that
562
00:40:01.700 --> 00:40:05.170
especially a public company that has
quarterly numbers. They have to hit.
563
00:40:05.180 --> 00:40:11.760
It's almost impossible. You almost have
to run it like a stealth project. Get
564
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:15.120
it off the books somewhere. Run it as a
pilot program and say, we're going to
565
00:40:15.120 --> 00:40:18.440
do this. Nobody pay attention, We just
throw a million dollars over here,
566
00:40:18.440 --> 00:40:23.510
please. Nobody to ignore these people.
They're going to create this thing and
567
00:40:23.510 --> 00:40:27.010
we're going to test it out. It's gonna
be it's almost like what is it? The
568
00:40:27.020 --> 00:40:31.730
google? 20% where google employees can
do Anything they want with 20% of the
569
00:40:31.730 --> 00:40:35.050
time. We need to think the same thing
about our marketing. So I think a lot
570
00:40:35.050 --> 00:40:38.340
of the things we talked about today, it
would be like, look, we know these
571
00:40:38.340 --> 00:40:40.900
things are really important but we
don't have a good handle on them. So
572
00:40:40.900 --> 00:40:44.900
let's take this 20%, some of that might
be organic, some of that might be
573
00:40:44.910 --> 00:40:49.210
purchased. Well we're gonna, we're
gonna be an incubator for all the
574
00:40:49.210 --> 00:40:54.060
little creators in our industry. Well,
what a great idea that would be. And
575
00:40:54.060 --> 00:40:58.020
just say, hey, just keep, we're gonna
fund, you keep doing your thing and
576
00:40:58.020 --> 00:41:01.950
building audience and then as you see
it come together and you listen to to
577
00:41:01.950 --> 00:41:04.990
the audience and figure out what their
needs are and figure out where that
578
00:41:04.990 --> 00:41:08.140
database overlaps with your database
should be like, oh, now I'm starting to
579
00:41:08.140 --> 00:41:11.930
think I could see the business, I can
see the different revenue lines, what
580
00:41:11.930 --> 00:41:13.140
an opportunity that would be.
581
00:41:15.010 --> 00:41:19.000
Well, that's good to know. I always
wondered, I'm like, I'm like, I'm more
582
00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:21.560
on the business side trying to learn
how to become a creator more and more.
583
00:41:21.560 --> 00:41:25.150
And I work for a content marketing
agency as sweet fish media. We, we do
584
00:41:25.150 --> 00:41:29.960
podcasting. So I get content, but at
the same time it's the growing an
585
00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:34.150
audience is difficult. It's not easy.
And starting a company, a profitable
586
00:41:34.150 --> 00:41:38.760
company isn't easy either. Almost
wondered if it was easier to, or harder
587
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:42.690
to grow an audience as it was to start
a company. I've certainly seen creators
588
00:41:42.690 --> 00:41:47.460
with millions of YouTube subscribers
struggle to get more than $100,000 a
589
00:41:47.460 --> 00:41:53.100
year in profit, right? And you're like,
Huh? Because I've seen some business
590
00:41:53.100 --> 00:41:59.080
savvy creators with 100,000, you know,
uh, subscribers tens of thousands of
591
00:41:59.080 --> 00:42:03.810
views of video making millions of
dollars. Right? So there's definitely,
592
00:42:03.810 --> 00:42:10.830
I mean, they're both extremely
difficult. If I have my choice, I I
593
00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:16.710
would like to walk in with the audience
in hand, I can monetize that audience
594
00:42:16.710 --> 00:42:19.490
all that. I mean, I can do a lot of
different things so big. So creating
595
00:42:19.490 --> 00:42:25.430
the business from that audience is it
would be easier for me to do it.
596
00:42:25.430 --> 00:42:29.750
Sometimes it's not for a business with
the wrong mission statement. But that's
597
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:32.970
if I had my choice, that's what I would
take because if you have the audience,
598
00:42:32.970 --> 00:42:36.400
you're already a few steps ahead on
What you would need for the business.
599
00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:39.820
You already know what your target demos
are. You already have some, a lot of
600
00:42:39.820 --> 00:42:43.500
information to work with. And you could
do a lot of product market research to
601
00:42:43.500 --> 00:42:47.670
find out what they want and you jump to
the front, you can test it, jump to the
602
00:42:47.670 --> 00:42:52.960
front of the line, right? You've jumped,
you just skipped probably 18-24 months
603
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:58.300
of time. That's the and that's that
makes the business case for buying and
604
00:42:58.300 --> 00:43:02.980
outside properties. So you don't have
to take all that time. Although I would,
605
00:43:02.990 --> 00:43:05.820
I would say that there is a lot of
benefits to going through the learning
606
00:43:06.200 --> 00:43:09.660
pains and the struggles of
understanding that audience, but you
607
00:43:09.660 --> 00:43:13.410
can't skip and and just buy your way
there. Yeah, the audience might outlive
608
00:43:13.410 --> 00:43:14.020
the business,
609
00:43:15.200 --> 00:43:20.440
right? That's another fun thing. But
man, I would almost, I think maybe
610
00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:24.440
we'll talk afterwards about doing
another episode about your your token
611
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:29.250
journey there, but for now joe this has
been fantastic. Where can people go to
612
00:43:29.250 --> 00:43:33.570
learn more about what you're currently
doing with the tilt and anything else
613
00:43:33.570 --> 00:43:37.450
you have going on? That's that's worth
mentioning now. Sure, thank you. Yeah,
614
00:43:37.460 --> 00:43:40.770
so the tilt dot com, if you like what
we talked about, that's what we talk
615
00:43:40.770 --> 00:43:44.540
about all the time. You know how to be
a better content creator. I'm at joe
616
00:43:44.540 --> 00:43:50.510
palette. CPU L I Z Z I uh just about
every social channel you can dM me, my
617
00:43:50.510 --> 00:43:54.900
latest book is content inc came out in
May and it talks about the seven step
618
00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:59.100
process for building an audience with
limited resources. So if that's
619
00:43:59.100 --> 00:44:01.350
something that you're looking forward
to in your department, you can take
620
00:44:01.350 --> 00:44:05.590
this seven step model and plug it in
basically to any B two B organization
621
00:44:05.590 --> 00:44:11.680
and as long as your patient, as long as
you've got the Taib, you can make it
622
00:44:11.680 --> 00:44:15.220
work absolutely fantastic. Again,
thanks for joining me on GDP growth.
623
00:44:15.230 --> 00:44:17.110
Thanks dan,
624
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:23.780
is your buyer at B two B marketer. If
so you should think about sponsoring
625
00:44:23.780 --> 00:44:28.050
this podcast. BtB Growth gets
downloaded over 130,000 times each
626
00:44:28.050 --> 00:44:31.560
month. And our listeners are marketing
decision makers. If it sounds
627
00:44:31.560 --> 00:44:37.510
interesting, send Logan and email Logan
at sweet fish media dot com. Mm hmm