Transcript
WEBVTT
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Yeah,
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welcome back to be, to be growth. I'm
dan Sanchez, my friends call me dan
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says and I'm here with Robin Farm. Unb
Armenian, who is the author of Thought
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Leader, Formula Robin, Welcome to the
show. I have been so excited to talk to
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you today, thanks for having me.
Fantastic as the audience knows. I've
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been on a deep dive in this month of
june to talk about thought leadership,
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marketing and all things like related
to thought leadership, how to create
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thought leadership content. What does
it mean to be a thought leader and what
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path does one have to take in order to
become a competent and actually well
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respected thought leaders? None of
those fakers that make all of us cringe
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when they are used dropping declaring
that there a thought leader out there
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on linkedin, right, How do you actually
become an authentic thought leader? And
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those are the questions were exploring
in this deep dive. I was excited to
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talk to Robin because she wrote a
fantastic book I have here with me now.
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And there was a number of interesting
insights I had from the book though
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there was none more interesting than I
think her take on personal branding
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within thought leadership. So what I
want to head into that topic first, I
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wanted to get your back story for the
audience. Robin, if you could elaborate
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like how did you get into thought
leadership, how did that become a thing
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for you? So what I did is I used to
work in both events, but also business
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development and sales. And this is all
around health care technology companies.
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And when I first got to Silicon Valley
the first few years it was kind of
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tough. I am a high energy, very petite
blonde and uh in Silicon Valley which
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is mostly men and I found myself being
sexually harassed uh sabotaged at work.
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I mean it was crazy people stealing my
work. And I realized early on you can't
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fight that directly through something
like HR HR is not there to protect the
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woman, right on the employee. It's
there to protect the company. And so as
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soon as I realized that I decided to
change the game, I went home one
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weekend and I created a five year
project plan for myself on how to
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become a professional speaker and
author in order to have a stronger name
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and presence than the men that were
pushing me down and let me tell you it
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worked beautifully the day my first
book published the patient as Ceo. It
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was like flipping a light switch on on
the sexual harassment and sabotage in
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the workplace. In fact, it changed the
power dynamic so much that I felt like
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I was in a tank and the men were on
horseback. And so when the Me Too
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movement happened, fast forward to 2016,
I realized, wait a second, it's this is
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happening to other women. Like that's
that was a big thing. Like we didn't
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realize it was happening so many other
places. So I said, you know what, I
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have a solution for this instead of
trying to fight people directly on this,
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why don't we raise up the women right
and do what I did for myself. But for,
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you know, millions of women out there.
And so I took my five year project plan,
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turned it into a system for anyone to
use regardless of industry. And that's
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my solution now for the meeting
movement. That's fantastic. That's so
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interesting that it like positioning
yourself as a thought leader and having
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people like believe it and it's not
like it was fake that it's real and
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it's something substantive to believe,
like repositioned in people's minds and
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it just had them behave differently for
you. It was because it was for some
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very practical reasons, but obviously
it came with a lot more benefits than
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just keeping men from being jerks. What
were some of the other benefits you saw
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from being becoming a thought leader
and establishing that sense of trust
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and confidence that other people put
into you. So really it comes down to
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when you're going to do something like
this and I put a lot of time and money
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into building myself into an author and
a professional speaker. You need a
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multitude of reasons. So I always think
of myself, okay, so what are those top
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three reasons? First of all I can, you
know, battle against these men done
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Right. Second of all, I do business
development and a lot of the times
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sales, which means now that I'm an
author and a professional speaker, I
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get access to events that people don't
even know are going on like internally
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at some of the big insurance companies
or the big device or pharmaceutical
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companies. And I get to meet the ceos
of like Fortune 500 companies all the
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time by being able to be an invited
speaker there. And so that really
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helped with the business development.
And then I also understand that
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technology is really disrupting a lot
of the way we work. And so I believe in
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multiple revenue streams you cannot
rely on anymore. Just one salary from
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one company over, you know, your career
and expect to be able to survive. And
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so if you have multiple revenue streams,
you'll be able to turn to one in the
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case of something like a pandemic or of
course artificial intelligence or
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robotics taking over or displacing your
job in some way. And so we saw this
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this past year because I have so many
revenue streams that I was able to set
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up because I'm an author and a
professional speaker means I could lean
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on a lot of them when my professional
speaking went away, like Ma'am
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overnight, I lost most of my paid talks
and I was able to very quickly just
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rely on one of my other revenue streams.
Fantastic. I've spent a lot of time
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thinking about it. And I've also, I
mean reading a lot of thought
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leadership books, a lot of thought
leadership books are more geared
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towards the person who wants to become
a thought leader than the marketers who
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want to position the company as a
thought leader, which is kind of two
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different things. But they obviously
overlap because a lot of times the
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amount of position a company as a
thought leader, usually taking maybe
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the ceo of founder and a internal
subject matter expert and turning them
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into the face of the company or faces,
Right. Um, so lots of overlap between
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those two things, but I've certainly
thought about how, I don't know, I
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think this is going to become a bigger
part of the future for many people,
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especially as, you know, taxes go up
for companies, you can't hire as many
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people, people are going to be leaning
on contractors more that a lot of
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people will essentially become a mix of
contractor. Thought leader, freelancer
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with probably there are side hustles
and businesses going on. Well, I think
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a lot of people are going to have to
diversify income in this in the future
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and they're probably more people
reading your book and others like it to
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do so, so it's fun to be on the
forefront of what I think is going to
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be even a more a larger tidal wave
coming in the future. One of the things
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you dive into in your book is around
personal branding and one of the things
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that I want to dive into before we even
cover, like the things you go into and
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being, how to build a personal branch,
very practical is why personal branding
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is actually a really important part of
building out your thought leadership.
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You got to look at it as if you were a
company and in fact I call myself Robin
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inc because I look at it like a company
and so you've got to build that
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personal brand the same way you would
build a company brand. What is the
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voice? And I mean by voice, not just
the way your voice sounds, but how do
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you communicate? Is it with, you know,
long science words or you're
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communicating to more of a general
audience. So really everything that
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goes into a brand what you look like,
right? So for instance, I'm recognized
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by complete strangers from behind. Like
that is kind of crazy. I have people
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come up to me all the time. High you
Robin firm information and it is, it's
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hilarious. So I have so many different
aspects of what I look like that are
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very signature and very, very obvious.
So like imagine if you are a guy and a
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lot of guys in my world are, you know,
physicians or they work in firma or med
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device. And so you know, a lot of the
time they'll still dress up to go to
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conferences and they're like, oh, I'm
gonna wear a pocket square to
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differentiate like how is anyone going
to see that? Right? Like you want your
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signature look and I call it a
signature look to really be something
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that's in all the photos. And so that's
really anything from your, you know,
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chest up and it's not going to always
include a something like a pocket
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square. The other thing is, is is it
visual from stage? Right? Like a lot of
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the time, something as small, like a
pocket square or even just like maybe
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the way you do your makeup isn't
visible from stage. And so things like
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your hair, your eye glasses, if you
wear glasses, that is a fantastic
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opportunity because you can do the
funny rims or a certain color, right?
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We were talking earlier that you
remember one of the speakers because he
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wears these bright yellow glasses, yep,
all those little things and I find
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personal brands can be powerful because
they're essentially a representation of
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you, but they're not necessarily the
full you, right? And I think I've often
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often heard advice when it comes to
building personal brand of just be you
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right, which I've always kind of felt
rings true and at the same time it's
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kind of frustrating because you're like,
well what do I do with that? That's
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like just be me. I'm a lot of things,
it's like which part of me like the
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past me currently or like the me, I'd
rather be out in the future somewhere.
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So it's not, I don't find that it's the
best advice when it comes to personal
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branding. So like one of the things you
talk about is being authentic or a B A
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always be authentic, which I find is
really important. It's like of course,
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it's not like when I say just be used
bad, don't mean to be someone else, but
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there's something more to it than just
being who you are all the time. So when
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you say always be authentic, how do I
actually go about doing that
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practically? So first of all don't tell
like white lies. So I when networking,
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I use this kind of an example when you
go up to someone, I like to compliment
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them on something that I like about
them. But I will never compliment on
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someone on something I don't like,
right? And that's just one very simple
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example of showing you where people
will understand that you are either
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telling the truth or you're lying. You
say, oh I love those shoes on you. It's
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really obvious when you're lying, right?
And so take that kind of situation. But
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put yourself on stage, if you are
trying to tell people something that
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you yourself don't believe in, or if
you're wearing something that makes you
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feel uncomfortable or you're not used
to or you've taken someone else's
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advice on a brand new haircut, a you're
not gonna be coming across as someone
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who isn't um isn't lying, right? You're
not going to come across as if you are
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telling the truth, you're going to come
across as feeling uncomfortable. That
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is so obvious when someone is wearing
something they don't like, it is
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incredibly obvious to everybody else
that they're uncomfortable, right? And
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so if you are always authentic, always
exactly who you are. You're never put
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in that position of being that impostor,
and no one's going to notice that. So
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there's a little bit more to it than
that, I think is even like when you
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dress up and you're taking photos and
you're on stage you're wearing the same
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things, but I'm like even in this book
cover your brain like a red dress and
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I've seen you another book covers,
you're wearing similar type dresses um
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in different colors depending on the
audience, Right? Something you
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mentioned the book, but you're probably
not always wearing that dress. Maybe
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when you're behind the scenes or it's
like a cozy work saturday or something
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like that, or you just outfit the mall,
you're probably not always wearing
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those things, but when you're on brand
or you're picking something, you're
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probably really comfortable in this
dress for starters, so it's not
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inauthentic, but when you're getting in
building your brand, you're essentially
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highlighting certain aspects to you and
kind of leaving the rest off the table,
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is that right? Exactly? To give you an
example. I gave this talk in Germany
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and it was at this giant sports
conference and I mean like full on like
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fitness studios, were there giant
pieces of fitness equipment and for my
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main talk, I went in my normal dress
and high heels and then the next day I
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was doing a kind of more of an informal
sit down interview and so I decided to
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grab some workout equipment, like
everyone else is wearing workout gear,
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I threw on sneakers, yoga pants and one
of these energy harvesting shirts, it
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was, you know, high tech workout shirt,
nobody recognized me, like the people
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who are, who are waiting for me and
they had never met me in person, but
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they were watching for someone with a
dress and high heels on and they're
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like, where where is she, where is
Robin? She's late? And I'm like, hi,
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I'm right in front of you. It was
hilarious because I was just not even
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recognized because I was in that sport
in uniform.
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So you feel like building a personal
brand is really like just highlighting
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the parts that you want to highlight in
order to essentially. I mean it's kind
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of a marketing play. You're, you're
highlighting your finding out what the
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audience expects to some degree and
you're bringing the right elements that
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are true to you. But you're kind of
mixing and matching. You're trying to
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bring the right things so that you're
leaving the right impression that you
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want to leave its designing based on
what's already true about you. And it's
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a lot more than close, but be from
anything from the way you talk to, the
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way you write to, the way you'll take
photos to, the way you talk on camera,
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to the way you do a podcast interview,
right? It all has to be authentically
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you, but obviously it is designed a
little bit and that you're being
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specific in the way you're coming
across, yep, and consistent. So what's
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consistency is key? So how do you go
about choosing those things? Like how
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do you work backwards? Like for example,
how did you choose the dress as the
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signature item? Did you think backwards?
It like no, like what do I want to look
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like? How do I see myself? Or is it
something like, what would they expect?
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Or is it kind of like a blend of the
two? It was nothing to do with what the
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audience would expect. It was 100% what
am I comfortable in and what is someone
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of my job would normally wear? Right,
So first of all I'm just really
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comfortable and sheath dresses, like
it's almost like wearing pajamas, but
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they are nicely fitted and tailored,
but it's just so soft and easy to move
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in and so it's much more comfortable
for me than, say, a pair of jeans or
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something like that. And then I'm in
sales and business dev, you know, I
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meet with sea levels, you know,
executives, I meet with investors and
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so people don't always show up into
those kinds of things with like jeans
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and sneakers on to begin with. So
that's first off, and a lot of my paid
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keynotes are consider business attire,
Which means, again, you shouldn't be
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wearing like jeans and sneakers. So
that was already off the table and it's
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just something that I was already
comfortable in and I can by repetitive
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Lee. So I literally do have the exact
same dress in, like 20-25 different
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colors, patterns and, and fabrics, but
it's essentially the exact same dress.
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Yeah. And that just helps people
remember, helps give you a distinct
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style and your new thing. Like if you
picture Simon cowell's in your head, I
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guarantee you you're going to think
about him in a particular shirt, You're
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thinking about it right now. It's a
black v neck. That's what he wears.
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Either he decided that or a brand
specialists who specialized in like
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brand identity told him, hey, this is
your thing, right? Some, some people
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like steve jobs just decided they like
black turtlenecks. But oftentimes
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celebrities are being told by highly
paid individuals what their look should
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be and how to be memorable because
that's a big part of the game. Things
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you need to think about it as a thought
leader. I know we're spending a lot of
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time on dress, but this plays into like,
I think most areas of branding, right?
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Finding that thing that's true to
yourself, that's appropriate within the
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space or maybe strategically
inappropriate. Right? Exactly. And then
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trying to be consistent in it. So let's
walk through some of those other
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elements that you've spelled out,
including enhancing your name. Tell me
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a little bit more about that. Sure. So
I'm lucky in that I'm the only Robin
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furman for me in in the entire universe.
But when I google other people's names,
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sometimes they're not the only name in
the universe. And it can be really hard
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to differentiate. So if you have, you
know, a first name like Michael or
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David, which is very, very popular. And
then you also have a last name that is
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also a popular last name. You might
want to tweak your name some way, right?
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And that might be adding the doctor to
the beginning. That if you're, you know,
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if you are a doctor or it could be
adding a middle initial or it could be,
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you know, using a nickname but
something that will literally
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differentiate your name. And if you
can't think of anything and your name
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is something uh, you know, popular like
Michael scott, like just or Michael
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smith or something like that, you could
say Michael sweet smith, technology
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entrepreneur and like have those two
words always appear with your name. So
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you're essentially branding yourself in
a name and that way you can
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differentiate yourself because let me
tell you, there are a lot of speakers
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and authors where I've tried Googling
them and I couldn't find them right
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away. If you're not those first few
results for your, not only your subject
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but your actual name. You've got to
differentiate from the people who are
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the first results for your name. As a
marketer, you're probably brainstorming
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outside the box ideas to engage your
prospects and customers working
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00:17:17.750 --> 00:17:21.480
remotely. And you've probably thought
about sending them direct mail to break
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00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:25.589
through the zoom fatigue. But how do
you ship personalized gifts to remote
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00:17:25.589 --> 00:17:29.910
decision makers When you have no idea
where they're sitting at B two B growth?
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00:17:29.910 --> 00:17:33.770
We use the craft and platform to send
hyper personalized gifts to anyone
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00:17:33.770 --> 00:17:37.280
working from anywhere. Crafting makes
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00:17:37.280 --> 00:17:41.800
customers to pick and personalize their
own gift in real time and offers highly
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00:17:41.800 --> 00:17:45.720
secure data capture. So decision makers
feel comfortable submitting their home
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00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:49.960
addresses for shipping purposes. To get
your own personalized craft and gift.
250
00:17:50.040 --> 00:17:54.590
Go to craft um dot io slash growth to
schedule a demo and receive a
251
00:17:54.590 --> 00:17:58.350
complimentary personalized gift from
craft. Um to claim your personalized
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00:17:58.350 --> 00:18:05.820
gift, go to craft um dot io slash
growth, that's fantastic. I was just
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thinking, I'm like, you know what? I
kind of stumbled into that on accident,
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hence calling myself Danchev and just
said to just dan Sanchez, which became,
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was, it was like a hashtag like even
eight months ago, I just started doing
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it on linkedin and people have stuck
Because there is honestly about, I
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think there's about 2000 of Dan Sanchez
is out there. It's a common name, so I
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mix it together and I'm pretty much the
only one that goes by Dan says now it's
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awesome, it's cute, it's funny, it's
interesting and it's still, I can still
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go by dan Sanchez and people know, but
it's still just a different naming
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thing and the way we know Gary
Vaynerchuk, uh he's got such a long
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name, he just started going by Gary V
because less syllables is usually more
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memorable. That kind of depends. Right?
So I know he had shortened it and a lot
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of I've seen a lot of people play with
the name, what would you say to people
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who have like just really harsh
sounding names or like they're just
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names, it's kind of like, you know,
they just don't have a great name. What
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would you say to people like that? Have
you ever worked with customers whose
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names are just sound not funny, but
like they're hard to really hard to say
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they're they're impossible to spell. I
could think of like a friend whose last
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name is like sub check and it's it's
literally impossible to spell right and
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even the way I said it, you would never
guess the spelling of it. So I would
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say make sure your first name is easy,
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right? And so I do have some clients
that I've worked with and some
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entrepreneurs have worked with from
china right and their names started
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with an X and for an american, anything
that starts with the letter X, you say
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x x ray, right or something like that.
And it's so rare in the english
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language, I'm like no one can remember
how to spell your name and no one knows
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how to say it. So you need one of your
names, like your first name or your
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last name, but hopefully your first
name be something that the audience you
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are trying to target and reach will be
able to remember and spell and remember.
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A lot of Hollywood actors and even
authors change their name all the time.
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Some of them changed their name to be
completely brand new and nothing like
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their old name and some just tweak
their names. But really I mean if you
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want to go ahead and tweak your name
you're welcome to do that. There's no
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reason you even have to go through
anything legal. You can have that stage
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name that name that everyone on social
media calls you by and everyone on your
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email list but then you know when you
pay your taxes you pay under your
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normal name. So many different ways to
mix and match it could literally be a
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nickname. It could be you probably name
tied to the industry if you can find
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some fancy alliteration to make it work
or and find the domain name and then
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everybody kind of knows you. Is that
thing think about E patient Dave right.
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E patient Dave. I don't most people
don't know his last name is D bronc
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something I can't even remember it
because it's hard but I remember e
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patient Dave right? And he's a very
famous E patient now, just by that name,
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yep, that works. I think the one scary
thing about is you get locked into that
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one thing and it's hard to pivot later.
Right? But I'm sure people have done it.
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One thing you talk about is having a
fundamental truth. Tell me a little bit
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more about that. It's not necessarily a
mission of a kind, but what do you mean
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by fundamental truth? So when I'm
talking about your thought leader
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formula itself, it is a combination of
your y and your fundamental truth and
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that's really the beginning of your
thought leader platform and so your
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fundamental truth is something that you
believe that either the rest of the
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world doesn't even know about yet or
don't actually agree with you, for
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instance, my first book and how I
launched myself was the patient as Ceo,
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right? And that is a concept that when
you go to places like Germany and Japan,
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their mouths dropped open because it's
a very paternalistic healthcare system.
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And so when the patient goes in to see
a doctor, they're not even supposed to
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ask questions, they say yes, thank you.
And then you're supposed to go do what
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the doctor tells you to do, right? And
by saying the patient is the Ceo that
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is a dramatic shift in how people view
patients. And so that's my fundamental
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truth. But it also is something that I
truly believe, right, always make sure
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you walk your talk. I'm I am the
essentially Ceo of my own healthcare
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team and I demonstrate that over and
over and over again with real life
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scenarios and I talk about it on stage,
so it makes sense. You're essentially
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like taking what is a long explanation
for what could be in finding a very
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short insistent way to summarize it
into one a one liner kind of like um
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Toyota has always better never best
right to summarize kind of the lean
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manufacturing, which has a whole book
behind it, but you can kind of get the
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sense of it and always better never
best write your summarising your truce.
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And would you say these truths are like
the unique things you're doing to
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expand the industry? Because I'd say
thought leadership is making unique,
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it's not just being an expert, it's
making unique contributions, right? And
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these truths are your unique
contributions as a thought leader, your
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pillars as a thought leader. Exactly.
So thinking about the fact that also
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many of us have more than one
fundamental truth, So it's really
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targeting it down to that one concept
that you can build a brand off of a
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platform, remember anything you do now
doesn't mean you can't do other things
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next year or the year after, right?
You're not going to pigeon your whole
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yourself necessarily. I mean if you
call yourself e patient dave maybe you
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don't go into agriculture with that
name, but in general like with the
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patient as ceo I've done now the
healthcare stuff, I've done the thought
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leadership step. So I thought
leadership stuff which I can't say
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obviously and I've also done
facilitating virtual events. So I've
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put out a book in the event world right?
And now I'm about ready to put out 1/4
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book and that's on a I democratizing
healthcare. And so really I I decided
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not to let anything pigeonholed me, but
everything just keeps building
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absolutely. I have noticed that thought
leaders, you are professional thought
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leaders often have a specific beachhead
that they come in on with one idea, but
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then afterwards, once you kind of have
that established you can do one after
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another after another. Hence Gary V
started with the wine guy, he was the
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wine guy and then he became the social
media guy. And now lately he's been the
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crypto N. F. T. Guy. Like he keeps
adding these feathers to his hat. But
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ultimately it's becoming a truer
expression to him and you can continue
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to add those things. Of course he would
say that you only know 5% of who I
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actually am because I've crafted this
brand, but you can do one thing after
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another though I'd say usually probably
have to pick one thing and stick with
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it for a while. Yes and I mean that's
that's something from from Silicon
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Valley entrepreneurship. Right? When
you are first launching a company, you
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need to be able to do one thing
incredibly well with a very well
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defined vertical, Right? And so for
instance, I worked at a health tap back
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in 2010 and this is data and
telemedicine type platform and when we
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first initially launched in order to
get feedback and really kind of look at
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the product, we did it just for
pregnant women and new moms, even
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though we were not even remotely going
to focus on that later on. Right later
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on, we were planning on going across
all the major diseases, from diabetes
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to cardiovascular health, but we really
just launched in that one well defined
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market, so we could get traction and
then once we were able to get traction
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and understand what was going on, then
we expanded across diseases. Makes
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sense? So just like it's you
incorporated right? You really do have
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to do to build a personal brand and I
thought leadership, you really do have
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to think about all the things that
normal business would have to think
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about. Just like if you were starting
up, you do have to think about who's
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your market, who is your audience,
what's the solution generally that you
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as a brand bring to the table like all
that kind of like um like steve blank's
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four steps to the epiphany, the lean
startup kind of methodology you really
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have to bring yourself, which is
probably why a lot of people don't get
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into it because let's be honest, like
those steps and entrepreneurship are
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kind of hard. Let's say they do find it
though. How long do you think you
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should stick to it or when do you know,
you were able to break away from the
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first thing you got established and can
established another thing? Well, first
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of all, um has it fed your revenue
stream enough because you shouldn't be
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launching yourself just as a thought
leader and expect money to fall in your
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lap because it's not going to happen.
Right, What is your business model? So
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looking at your business model, have
you been able to feed it correctly? Is
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it working? And once it started working
and really got new traction then, is it
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time to launch a second brand or, or
vertical? And what is the business
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model for? That? That makes sense, But
you might have to pivot on the way
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there in case the first one didn't
quite, I don't know if I'm ready for
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whatever reason, just didn't connect
the way you wanted it to. So it might
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be interesting. Moving on. One of the
other things you talk about for a
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personal brand is catchphrases and I
love this. I recently read about even
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at a different thing, a book called
Primal branding, I think they caught
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words or like um sacred words, but I'm
like, it's kind of the same thing, like
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what do you mean by catchphrases
specifically? And then I'd like to kind
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of go back and forth on different
iterations of it. Sure, so thinking
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about what are those 3 to 5 phrases?
And I mean just to start that you
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repeat over and over again. Right? So
one of mine would be the patient as ceo,
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right? That's both fundamental truth. A
book name as well as a catchphrase,
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Right, Another catchphrase could be
back when I first launched that book
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Doctors as medical Engineers, right? So
I could just say that concept over and
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over again and all of my interviews and
put it in my books and put it up on
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stage so that these are concepts and
phrases that get associated with your
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brand, What would you think about
coming up with phrases that are not
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necessarily tied to your thought
leadership, but tied to just you and
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your personality or tied to something
that's specific about your brand. Have
396
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you played with those at all with
yourself or with customers? Uh so it
397
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kind of blends for me because I do have
enough catchphrases now and enough
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things that I can go into like
fundamental truth and your why? Right?
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That's another one of my essentially
catchphrases. So it's just, I mean you
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can really have as many as you want and
they can be related to either just your
401
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personal brand or to your business
model, but they're really just things
402
00:28:38.830 --> 00:28:42.760
that you're going to say over and over
again concepts that Essentially getting
403
00:28:42.760 --> 00:28:48.640
your concepts down 3-5 words, 3-5 words.
That's a good rule. And it's funny
404
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:53.060
because we can all think of different
catchphrases from all popular brands,
405
00:28:53.060 --> 00:28:56.410
like Nike is most famous, just do it
right, is a catchphrase from their
406
00:28:56.410 --> 00:29:00.180
brand and ways to sink your teeth into
something and they can probably be more
407
00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:04.370
thought driven or maybe concept driven,
certainly more emotionally driven, like
408
00:29:04.370 --> 00:29:07.850
just do it. Um could probably be all
over the place. In fact there might be
409
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:11.540
I imagine would be powerful if you can
work emotion to it. I don't know how
410
00:29:11.540 --> 00:29:14.520
thought leaders would work more emotion
into a specific phrase, but I imagine
411
00:29:14.520 --> 00:29:19.180
it's possible the last thing you kind
of have in your steps to building a
412
00:29:19.190 --> 00:29:23.920
great brand, is building your bio or
story. So, tell me a little bit more
413
00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:29.450
about that. Well, if you haven't had a
professional bio done right, and, like,
414
00:29:29.460 --> 00:29:33.430
you're launching yourself as a thought
leader, I'd say, have someone can help
415
00:29:33.430 --> 00:29:38.080
you with it, because sometimes you are
so close to it, that it's difficult for
416
00:29:38.080 --> 00:29:42.130
you to really take out the things that
are most important, and so what I did
417
00:29:42.140 --> 00:29:46.260
now, I'm an expert of course at writing
bios, and I can write my own or anybody
418
00:29:46.260 --> 00:29:49.750
else is in a matter of minutes, but
when I first started out what, eight
419
00:29:49.750 --> 00:29:53.830
years ago, I was like, I don't know how
to do this. And so I brought on a pr
420
00:29:53.830 --> 00:29:58.510
company who went and went through and
created like a small bio, a medium
421
00:29:58.510 --> 00:30:03.130
length and then a super long bio for me,
and then I just took those and I built
422
00:30:03.130 --> 00:30:06.490
off of them. So you kind of build a
different back stories for different
423
00:30:06.490 --> 00:30:11.860
people depending on their fundamental
truths and their audience, I imagine,
424
00:30:11.870 --> 00:30:15.110
because everybody is you have a really
everybody's got a really long backstory.
425
00:30:15.110 --> 00:30:17.540
If you tell someone to tell you a
minute and 20 stories, they can ramble
426
00:30:17.540 --> 00:30:21.550
for 20 minutes, but most of it's not
really relevant to the audience. So
427
00:30:21.550 --> 00:30:25.200
what kind of things are you looking for
when you're looking at a story, let's
428
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:31.280
say they're there, want to become a
thought leader there, they sell to SAAS
429
00:30:31.280 --> 00:30:34.390
companies, right? And they want to be
positioned as a thought leader. They
430
00:30:34.390 --> 00:30:38.260
have a new way of running SAS companies
are helping them enhance reoccurring
431
00:30:38.260 --> 00:30:41.880
revenue or something like that. Maybe
they discovered a methodology that
432
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.610
really helps them do it, and they've
been pioneering that in the space like
433
00:30:44.610 --> 00:30:49.160
what kind of things are you looking for
in that kind of persons backstory? So
434
00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:54.300
something that is personal that can
give that emotional response right? And
435
00:30:54.300 --> 00:30:59.560
tie you to that. So when we started
this interview we talked about why I
436
00:30:59.560 --> 00:31:02.910
decided to become a thought leader
Right? Why I became a professional
437
00:31:02.910 --> 00:31:06.770
speaker. It's because I was so pushed
down in Silicon Valley and how that
438
00:31:06.770 --> 00:31:11.060
much you know how that changed the
equation. And so there's that story
439
00:31:11.060 --> 00:31:14.140
where you can have the emotional
reaction and take them onto that
440
00:31:14.140 --> 00:31:20.280
success thing. So that's always a good
one. or what may be some kind of an
441
00:31:20.280 --> 00:31:24.920
epiphany right? So that one works well
too. Like you were watching a baseball
442
00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:30.050
game one day you were at work and you
know your I. T. Guy said this and then
443
00:31:30.050 --> 00:31:33.370
all of a sudden bam the light bulb went
off and you had an epiphany and that's
444
00:31:33.370 --> 00:31:38.740
why you want to do this. So it could
really just be um anything that gives
445
00:31:38.740 --> 00:31:42.140
that emotional response. It sounds like
there's a couple different templates or
446
00:31:42.140 --> 00:31:46.970
ways of going about it. Like you just
said because you had you had an
447
00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:52.040
obstacle that you were facing. You had
an epiphany right? That hey this should
448
00:31:52.040 --> 00:31:54.770
be a thing. Like you maybe you connect
to different ideas together and you're
449
00:31:54.770 --> 00:32:00.110
like what the I wonder what some other
common stories are. Kind of like I
450
00:32:00.110 --> 00:32:03.680
guess they this this might be the
epiphany but of common origin story for
451
00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:07.940
most companies is uh I had this problem
myself and I was like huh? How come
452
00:32:07.940 --> 00:32:11.860
nobody else does this? Right? Like Uber
that's the story. They were stuck in a
453
00:32:11.870 --> 00:32:17.240
I think a snowstorm and Harris and they
couldn't hail a cab and had ways to go
454
00:32:17.250 --> 00:32:19.690
and they're like, man, wouldn't it be
nice if there was an apple record? Just
455
00:32:19.690 --> 00:32:23.050
some in the cabin, they would come to
me right, Uber was born. And I actually
456
00:32:23.050 --> 00:32:26.120
think the real story was a lot more
longer complicated, but it's certainly
457
00:32:26.120 --> 00:32:29.830
a nice soundbite that they've
essentially crafted into a story. Um
458
00:32:29.830 --> 00:32:34.600
Can you think of any other like
Takeaways or tactics for trying to find
459
00:32:34.610 --> 00:32:38.430
the story? 11 thing that I find happens
a lot is like the story behind the
460
00:32:38.430 --> 00:32:41.600
company is like, well, it seemed like
it was a profitable market that was
461
00:32:41.600 --> 00:32:44.540
kind of interesting to me and therefore
I developed a product around it and I
462
00:32:44.550 --> 00:32:47.470
happen to have the right idea now, the
products pretty good, but I don't have
463
00:32:47.470 --> 00:32:52.450
a really compelling story. It's because
they didn't bring on an expert to help
464
00:32:52.460 --> 00:32:56.980
them, Right? So you've got to
understand that in the world of
465
00:32:56.980 --> 00:33:00.640
marketing, you've got experts who have
done this for years and maybe have a
466
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:04.190
lot of education. And then you've got
people who are starting companies who
467
00:33:04.190 --> 00:33:07.990
might be an engineer or might be a
biologist or you know, might have
468
00:33:07.990 --> 00:33:12.990
studied finance, but not necessarily
marketing. And then, uh, you know, they
469
00:33:12.990 --> 00:33:16.870
try to come up with their own personal
story and it looks like it's a mess
470
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:20.260
because they've never tried to do that
before. They're not an expert. So I
471
00:33:20.260 --> 00:33:25.740
tell people hire a coach for one
session, even just one session to
472
00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:29.110
really break it down. Because like I
could hear someone's personal story,
473
00:33:29.120 --> 00:33:31.690
you know, you could spend three or five
minutes telling me and I'll get that
474
00:33:31.690 --> 00:33:36.330
down to like three sentences in seconds,
right? Because I'm used to being able
475
00:33:36.330 --> 00:33:42.550
to do that. That is a skill that needs
to be learned and actually used not
476
00:33:42.550 --> 00:33:45.420
just suddenly come up with at the spur
of the moment when you want to become a
477
00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:49.800
thought leader. But if you want to try
to do your own first thing I tell
478
00:33:49.800 --> 00:33:55.410
people is no more than three major
details, right? Yeah. Because a lot of
479
00:33:55.410 --> 00:33:59.640
the time someone will tell a story and
they go on like, have you heard of an
480
00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:03.270
eight year old ever telling a story
like on this favorite cartoon, eight
481
00:34:03.270 --> 00:34:09.540
year old right now? And it takes them
15 minutes to tell you something. That
482
00:34:09.540 --> 00:34:13.040
should have been one sentence and
that's what a lot of people think our
483
00:34:13.040 --> 00:34:17.350
storytelling is. So instead think about
what are the three main points you need
484
00:34:17.350 --> 00:34:20.560
to get across in the shortest length of
time.
485
00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:25.070
You want to write it on the back of a
napkin or the back of the envelope?
486
00:34:25.080 --> 00:34:29.719
It's your elevator pitch. Yeah, so
three main points. And is it almost is
487
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:32.590
it usually along the lines of like the
world was like this, there was a
488
00:34:32.590 --> 00:34:37.770
problem and then this it's kind of
those things, if somebody who actually
489
00:34:37.770 --> 00:34:41.139
wanted to hire somebody like what what
kind of job titles are they usually
490
00:34:41.139 --> 00:34:44.560
looking for in their headline? Of
course they can contact you. But if
491
00:34:44.560 --> 00:34:47.330
they were looking for that one hour,
like, okay, I want to just be able to
492
00:34:47.330 --> 00:34:50.370
tell my story for 30 minutes and they
pull out the three sentences that are
493
00:34:50.370 --> 00:34:53.929
just going to work. What kind of person
am I looking for that helps with that
494
00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:58.600
marketing team? Right. So yeah, so like
there are marketing companies, there
495
00:34:58.600 --> 00:35:03.130
are marketing coaches, there are
companies that just literally work on
496
00:35:03.130 --> 00:35:07.780
personal branding a lot of the time. Um
These companies are 2 to 5 people or
497
00:35:07.780 --> 00:35:12.360
even just a solo consultant, like I'm a
solo consultant and you just reach out
498
00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:16.830
to me and then you hire me for an hour
and a lot of friends who do that kind
499
00:35:16.830 --> 00:35:20.970
of thing. So literally just start
googling marketing marketing people on
500
00:35:20.970 --> 00:35:26.620
linkedin, Fantastic. And the last major
part you do a huge push with your book
501
00:35:26.620 --> 00:35:31.170
on the power of writing a book. Now,
this isn't super uncommon. I've talked
502
00:35:31.170 --> 00:35:33.480
to a couple of the thought leaders that
push that, but I want to revisit it
503
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:37.430
again because um the more I've read
about it, the more I find that this
504
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:42.820
this is the thing. A lot of people
agree that the Almighty book um despite
505
00:35:42.820 --> 00:35:46.440
social media being so popular is still
the number one way you become a thought
506
00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:53.480
leader. Why? Better than a degree? And
let me tell you why? So I'm a chronic
507
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:58.420
disease patient and my whole patient as
Ceo book is based on that and the fact
508
00:35:58.420 --> 00:36:03.140
that I'm a technology entrepreneur, I
am called Dr furman for me in more
509
00:36:03.140 --> 00:36:07.710
frequently sometimes that I'm called
Robin, like thanks guys, but I have a
510
00:36:07.710 --> 00:36:13.840
Bs in management and finance. That's
like my education. I am far from being
511
00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:19.450
a physician yet people just assume I am
and this is a big deal in the world of
512
00:36:19.460 --> 00:36:25.010
medicine because most women who spend
that 15 years studying medicine, doing
513
00:36:25.010 --> 00:36:28.910
residency and fellowship and all of
that most of the time are not called
514
00:36:28.910 --> 00:36:33.590
Doctor, which is kind of interesting
that people will just assume like they
515
00:36:33.590 --> 00:36:37.310
cannot get people to call them doctor
and people just assume I am right.
516
00:36:37.310 --> 00:36:42.040
That's the power of a book. Just people
seem to think that if you can write a
517
00:36:42.040 --> 00:36:45.860
book then you must be the world's
expert. It's probably gonna go on like
518
00:36:45.860 --> 00:36:50.100
this for the next five or six years. Uh
If you're trying to speak to generation
519
00:36:50.100 --> 00:36:54.190
Z, this is probably not the way. But if
you're trying to speak to millennials,
520
00:36:54.200 --> 00:36:58.570
gen X or anyone older than that.
Absolutely. A book is the equivalent of
521
00:36:58.570 --> 00:37:03.300
getting a graduate degree. Yeah. I mean,
well did even write a book, even if
522
00:37:03.300 --> 00:37:08.000
it's and okay book, you still have to
do a lot of work. You still have to do
523
00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:11.130
a lot of study and you still had to
articulate all the things you learned,
524
00:37:11.130 --> 00:37:15.040
right? Which is why college has, you
write papers. But generally you write
525
00:37:15.040 --> 00:37:18.730
nonsense so called papers because I
have great I've worked, I've had my M.
526
00:37:18.730 --> 00:37:22.200
B. A. And I've totted colleges before
and reading papers like worse than
527
00:37:22.200 --> 00:37:26.040
writing them right? If you write a book
you actually have to write coherent
528
00:37:26.130 --> 00:37:30.320
something in there. Even if it's like
not breakthrough. Um What if people
529
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:34.020
feel like they're not ready to write a
book? Like they have their an expert,
530
00:37:34.030 --> 00:37:37.190
they have some unique ideas but they
haven't like flushed out their unique
531
00:37:37.190 --> 00:37:40.500
ideas. They haven't been practicing
their unique ideas. They don't have a
532
00:37:40.500 --> 00:37:44.980
lot of evidence that show that you're,
their unique ideas are like bulletproof
533
00:37:44.990 --> 00:37:48.670
yet and they're afraid that the real
experts will come for them. What about
534
00:37:48.670 --> 00:37:53.350
those people? So there's two things
first to think about. First of all,
535
00:37:53.830 --> 00:37:58.450
single digit hundreds, maybe thousands
of people are going to read your book
536
00:37:59.030 --> 00:38:02.860
seriously. Like oh no there are very
few people are actually going to read
537
00:38:02.860 --> 00:38:07.240
your book instead. They are going to
hopefully be feeding your revenue
538
00:38:07.240 --> 00:38:11.340
streams like my revenue streams. I
fundraise for startup companies and
539
00:38:11.340 --> 00:38:15.260
health care and I'm hired by big
companies to come and give keynotes,
540
00:38:15.260 --> 00:38:19.250
right? So those are two of my big
revenue strings. And so everything I do
541
00:38:19.250 --> 00:38:24.100
kind of wants to feed one of those. So,
first of all thinking about that, but
542
00:38:24.100 --> 00:38:28.330
second of all this is a company, you
have to get that into your brain. Being
543
00:38:28.330 --> 00:38:32.970
a thought leader is not an individual
side project you do for fun, you've got
544
00:38:32.970 --> 00:38:37.800
to think of this as a company and you
bring on experts because writing in
545
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:43.280
general, but then specifically writing
a book, This is a big deal, it is a
546
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:48.930
skill set and it takes a lot of back
knowledge on even how the process works.
547
00:38:48.940 --> 00:38:54.650
Right? And so if you have never written
something more than 20 pages before,
548
00:38:55.020 --> 00:38:59.550
you might need to bring on extra help.
And there are many ways to do that from,
549
00:38:59.550 --> 00:39:04.510
I I refer people to a bunch of my
different friends who will ghost off
550
00:39:04.510 --> 00:39:08.710
there for them or they will be that
person who helps bring them through the
551
00:39:08.710 --> 00:39:12.540
process, like a coach that stands with
them and and it does a lot of the
552
00:39:12.540 --> 00:39:17.190
editing or help them with their outline.
You can also use companies like Scribd
553
00:39:17.190 --> 00:39:21.600
media, who I used for my first book,
which is amazing. They spend about 14
554
00:39:21.600 --> 00:39:25.150
hours with you, they talk to you on the
phone, they help you outline your book,
555
00:39:25.520 --> 00:39:29.750
then they spend 10 hours just sitting
there talking you through your outlined
556
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:34.030
and everything is recorded transcribed,
edited and then sent to you in a
557
00:39:34.030 --> 00:39:38.220
perfect book. Right? Those kinds of
things are very, very pricey obviously.
558
00:39:38.230 --> 00:39:41.840
But then there are other ways you can
hack it, go to something like scripted
559
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:46.640
dot com and order. That's uh It's
essentially articles on demand from
560
00:39:46.650 --> 00:39:51.990
just writers who can do like 800 word
articles or something. Order seven or 8,
561
00:39:52.300 --> 00:39:56.510
word articles. Put that together as a
book. Right? An intro and write a
562
00:39:56.510 --> 00:40:00.790
conclusion, smash it together. And
there's your book, write a book, is a
563
00:40:00.790 --> 00:40:06.480
marketing tool. It is not a revenue
stream. It's a way, I imagine if you
564
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:10.850
package all your ideas in one book, you
have a really nice little package to
565
00:40:10.860 --> 00:40:14.900
give people your thought leadership
ideas. Two, they may be paid you a
566
00:40:14.900 --> 00:40:17.900
little bit of money for it. So it sets
them up for maybe a bigger spend
567
00:40:17.900 --> 00:40:21.070
because the relationship has changed at
some point. You can you obviously just
568
00:40:21.080 --> 00:40:24.060
splinter out all the different content
in the book and all your social media
569
00:40:24.060 --> 00:40:29.160
post for who knows how long? So it
plays a lot of different roles. But why,
570
00:40:29.170 --> 00:40:34.000
I guess, I guess the big part about a
book more than a podcast, more than
571
00:40:34.010 --> 00:40:38.760
maybe a Youtube channel or social media
of some kind is just the credibility
572
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:43.640
that comes with the book. That's what
it is. It's the packaging, it's just
573
00:40:43.640 --> 00:40:47.250
the packaging, you could you could
literally, you know, say your entire
574
00:40:47.250 --> 00:40:51.110
book out loud and it's not going to
have that same credibility as a
575
00:40:51.110 --> 00:40:56.240
physical book, even if it's just an e
book. And that's really just the
576
00:40:56.250 --> 00:40:59.880
psychological conditioning we have here
in the United States around books. Up
577
00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:05.460
until now, No one realizes just how
easy it is to get it done. I don't know,
578
00:41:05.460 --> 00:41:10.270
I mean, it is hard to write a well
formulated book. Would you say? It's
579
00:41:10.270 --> 00:41:15.850
better to write it earlier or later? So,
start now. Right. I, I published my
580
00:41:15.850 --> 00:41:19.840
book, I think about a year, year and a
half into my thought leader journey and
581
00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:24.440
that was on my actual project plan. So
I came out with first a bunch of
582
00:41:24.450 --> 00:41:28.440
different articles that I had. I hired
a PR company to place in high end
583
00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:32.760
magazines. So I had that kind of
content catalog out there. Then I did a
584
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:37.510
bunch of key notes and I hired someone
to do like high end slides for me. And
585
00:41:37.510 --> 00:41:42.020
then I hired a team to come on and help
me with my book. This is a company, you
586
00:41:42.020 --> 00:41:46.000
are building a brand. If you are trying
to do it so low, you are probably not
587
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:47.520
going to be as successful
588
00:41:48.610 --> 00:41:52.660
or it takes longer or maybe you just
never get it done. I can see the point
589
00:41:52.660 --> 00:41:56.570
of hiring someone to help and some
people have enough drive to push it all
590
00:41:56.570 --> 00:41:59.140
the way through and knock it out in a
month or six months or whatever,
591
00:41:59.150 --> 00:42:03.430
whatever it might be. So this has been
fascinating. There's so many other
592
00:42:03.430 --> 00:42:06.750
elements elements in this book that we
could have dive into. But if you want
593
00:42:06.750 --> 00:42:09.740
to, you're going to have to go and read
the whole book. I think we flushed out
594
00:42:09.740 --> 00:42:13.920
one chapter pretty well, but that's
just one of many chapters in this book.
595
00:42:13.930 --> 00:42:18.950
Um, so again, the book is Thought
Leader Formula. There's a lot of books
596
00:42:18.950 --> 00:42:21.890
with the title, Thought, Thought Leader.
This is the one with the word formula
597
00:42:21.890 --> 00:42:26.860
in it. Um, and you'll see Robin right
on the cover, Robin, it's been a
598
00:42:26.860 --> 00:42:29.810
delight to have you on the show. Thank
you so much. If people want to learn
599
00:42:29.810 --> 00:42:32.920
more from you, where can they find you
online? What's the best social network
600
00:42:32.920 --> 00:42:37.210
and then what's your website? Sure. So
as I mentioned, I'm the only Robin Farm
601
00:42:37.210 --> 00:42:42.000
and Farm Ian in the entire universe. So
you can reach me on linkedin facebook
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00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:45.750
and twitter are the three that I'm on
most frequently. And my website is
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Robin Fs dot com. Fantastic. Again,
thanks for joining me on the show.
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00:42:49.980 --> 00:42:51.730
Thank you.
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00:42:54.200 --> 00:42:58.160
Is the decision maker for your product
or service at BBB marketer. Are you
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00:42:58.160 --> 00:43:02.340
looking to reach those buyers through
the medium of podcasting? Consider
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00:43:02.340 --> 00:43:07.590
becoming a co host of GDP Growth. This
show is consistently ranked as a top
608
00:43:07.590 --> 00:43:11.740
100 podcast in the marketing category
of apple podcasts and the show gets
609
00:43:11.740 --> 00:43:16.960
more than 100 and 30,000 downloads each
month. We've already done the work of
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00:43:16.970 --> 00:43:21.360
building the audience so you can focus
on delivering incredible content to our
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00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:25.820
listeners if you're interested email
Logan at sweet fish media dot com.