Transcript
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welcome back to be to be growth. I'm
Dan Sanchez with sweet fish media, and
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I am continuing the journey into the A
B M space. I'm about multiple weeks
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into this now, and I am learning a ton.
Um, you guys know that I have talked to
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thought leaders. I've talked to
practitioners. I reviewed a few
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Resource is and I'm in the deep end Now
I am I am, like, beyond neck deep in a
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B m thinking about it, dreaming about
it. And I figured out a lot of
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different ways to do it. Now, on on a
small budget with the big budget, a few
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different implementations of it. I know
we're working with it here. It's sweet
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fish media and I have some really
interesting ideas as far as how podcast
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could be tied into it, that will be
coming soon. But today, today is gonna
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be a little bit of a different episode.
I'm joined today by Jonathan Hickman,
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who is the VP of growth and community
at Connective, and we got connected on
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LinkedIn when I was posting about some
of these episodes I've been recording
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on a B M and we started having like a
friendly debate or back and forth on
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LinkedIn. That was just so much fun
that I was like, Okay, we just gotta
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bring this onto an episode because most
of my episodes have been with people
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who have a stake in a B M being a thing
the way that it's done. Of course,
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authors and thought leader is a lot of
these people like it's part of their
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career. It's like what they've tied
their name to or their whole company is
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invested into. So I thought would be
fun to have John on this show and talk
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about a B M just and have him kind of
push back against the idea of a B m so
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actually haven't even flushed out
exactly where this will go. So this is
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just gonna be a little bit of a debate.
What? John and I on the concept of a bm
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where there a bee EMS helpful, how a B
M is being implemented and if it's
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actually worthwhile to pursue at all.
So, John, let's start off with, like,
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how do you define account based
marketing? What does that mean to you?
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Right, so you know I think account
based marketing for And thanks for
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having me on the show. Uh, any time I
get to sit down and market and argue
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about marketing, it's a dream, right?
So I think a B m for me is about hyper
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hyper personalized marketing. And I'm
talking about the type of marketing
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where you sit down in a room with the
team and you're like, All right, we got
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these 10 companies right here. And
here's the 10 people at these companies
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that we wanna talk to. What do we know
about them? Who are they? You know,
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like and depending on the industry, you
go is Granules like wins Phil's
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birthday, you know, so we could send
them a card. And so a b m is ah, hyper
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hyper, hyper personalized marketing
approach where you're doing true 1 to 1,
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marketing at scale and in a revenue
positive way. Okay, so hyper 1 to 1.
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Marketing. That's funny, because, like
most people I talk to you like,
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actually differentiate a little bit in
that you Congar 01 too many. One too
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few and 1 to 1. So one. The one would
be one category of how people are
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talking about a B m ast faras what I
can tell. It's like, Ah, lot of people
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could do one toe one is an easy way to
get started. One too few takes a little
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bit more sophistication and then
scaling a B M one too many level
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usually takes like the advanced
automated software from, like six Cents
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and Demand Demand Base and Terminus and
all those guys right where you're
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targeting 1000 companies that air your
closest I C p or whatever. What do you
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think about that? I think that that's
the problem, right? Is that that's no
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longer a B M. And so this is it's any
of the old guard and marketing will
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tell you that like we've seen, these
kinds of things come and go before,
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like it's very, very typical of
marketers to get really hooked onto a
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new buzzword and then just chase that
rabbit and just chase it and chase it
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and chase it and get shiny. Object
syndrome is what you know. We in our
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circle call it, and this is what we've
seen with a B M is like a B M was built
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to be unanswered, too long term sales
cycles. It was an answer to handling Ah,
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very complex sales approach where you
really have to build a really deep
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relationship. And the problem is, is,
in my opinion, is that there's a lot of
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guys out there that are selling a B M,
that air selling a BM software and
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things like that. And so to them, every
single problem looks like an A B M
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problem. And of course they're going to
sell it that way. That's there. That's
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what they need to do. This is the
problem with like influencers and, and
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listening to these experts that sell
these products is a B M doesn't work
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for everybody. It doesn't work for
every industry, and it just doesn't
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make sense. I was actually I think we
were on your your feed the other day
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when I was arguing with some of the
There is not a single marketing tactic
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out there that works for every single
business. I don't care what it is. It's
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not not a phone number, not a website
non email address. I can show you a
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business where you don't need one of
those right, and that's what a B M's
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come down to, I think, is that it's
just the hot topic item that people
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want to talk about and they wanna make
everything be a B M when really it's
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just good, personalized marketing. It
makes a lot of sense. Honestly, there's
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some There's a bunch of things that
you're saying that just ring true with
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me. I remember I did an episode way
back this summer with a guy named
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Edward. Uh, never Mont, and he wrote a
book called Marketing Bs. Essentially,
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he's just like my goodness. He's got,
like, his Wharton MBA. He's like, Very
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sophisticated. He's just like there's
just so many marketing tactics on the
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street, mainly because of category
design, right? All marketers know if
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you want to be number one and you're
freaking B two b SAS space, you need to
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create known a category exactly right.
So that's because that's such a big
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playbook. We have tens of thousands of
different categories, all vying for
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device, all sending out doing research
and white papers and thought leadership
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about why their way is the best way
right, and that's what they're trying
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to do it to scale and There's a lot of
math and money behind all of these
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things and a ton of VC dollars
investing in these ideas, which has
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created a whole ecosystem of false or
partly, like only half true information,
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right, which makes it really hard as
their new market or trying to figure
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out what the heck works out there. Okay,
And then we have new marketers. I was
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gonna say just the problems. New
marketers just need to understand that
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we're all making this up as we go. I've
talked Thio, world renowned speakers
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that have, you know, so much smarter
than me that go travel to Google in
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different places to speak. And I tell
you, not a single one of them will ever
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claim to have it figured out. We're all
just the blind leading the blind. In
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this game, we published case studies to
pump ourselves up when really, it's
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kind of like like we've always pull our
best. Our best case scenarios forward,
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right? Andan sand Graham. I always
thought I love San Graham. I'm I've
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talked with him many times. I have an
interview coming up with Sand Graham um
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of CEO of Terminus. He wrote the book B
two b is a B m. No a B m is b two b. I
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did a review on it not long ago. She
always thought was kind of funny. And
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I'm like, uh, I think you're right.
Like a B M isn't for everybody, but it
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sure fits really well for most B to B
companies. I would say if your contract
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sizes over a certain amount, right?
Really? Exactly Right. So, like, take,
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for example, the fulfillment industry,
right? I'm gonna talk about because
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it's close to home for me. So they have
hugely long sales cycle when you're
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trying to convince somebody to move all
of their retail inventory from one
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warehouse to another warehouse, which
all of their systems, all of those back
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in hookups, right, like that is a new,
insanely long sales cycle with a huge
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ticket at the end. Right? In that
situation, it makes sense toe like deep
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dive into that company, deep dive into
those individuals. The payoff is worth
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it. But if your sale cycle, I would say,
is less than a year, I would really
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question whether I would ever look at a
B m a bm would be the seventh or eighth
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priority on my list after I've mastered
every single other thing that's gonna
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butter my bread first. I think that's
the issue with a B. M. That's the issue
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with a lot of these marketing tactics
that we could go through is who are
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they a fit for And who are they not a
fit for? I get it, man. I'm even I'm
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looking at, you know, Buffer, the
popular super popular like Web app for
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posting to social media like their top
price point is $100 a month. I'm like a
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B M is never gonna pan out for them.
They probably have some enterprise
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accounts, but you're like, even then
like, Okay, so you charge $200 a month.
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You're like like even Disney is not
gonna wanna pay more than a few $100 a
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month for your tool, even if with the
Enterprise feature is baked into it, it
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just doesn't make sense to do a B M. If
you're buffer, right? Exactly. So in
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that situation instead, you just you
always work is close to 1 to 1 is is
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reverently proven, right. If you can
get all the way to 1 to 1, and it's
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still be profitable. Awesome. Heck,
yeah. Good for you, Buffer. I don't
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think it's gonna happen. So I pick your
segments, you know, get down as needy,
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gritty as you can to try to personalize
or at least make the marketing a little
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bit mawr impactful to that audience,
but only to a point where it makes
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sense. Eventually, you're just wasting
money and losing dollars and like
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marketings, where good budgets goes to
die. So you gotta be careful with what
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you dio for. Sure. And that's why the
organic S e O Social has played out
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well for them even beyond. I've never I
don't think I've ever seen them post
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about Facebook ads. I'm sure they
posted about it, but I don't think
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that's their game either, because even
a good PPC strategy isn't gonna work
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for them. Their cost to acquire just
needs to be so low toe work for them.
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Financial. Oh, man. That's my other
favorite beating horse is PPC. That
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will be another one for another day
that I love to beat up on paper. Click.
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What? Oh, e Oh, Okay. But Let's stay on
a B m different. It will be a different
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show for a different day when we do a
series of PBC. So what contract size
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would you say is worthwhile for an A B
M play? I mean, that's really hard
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question to put, like a definitive
answer on right. It's really it's
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really dependent. And it's dependent on
just like how high of a cost of
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acquisition can you tolerate? So I
think for a A B M program to be done
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exactly right, you're gonna have to
require at least one if not two full
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time hires to pull it off, probably
with a sales background. So it's either
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a sales guy that leans marketing or a
marketing guy that leans sales, or a
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team of them working together, right?
One of them handling the digital
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outreach, the digital research portion
of it, those sides, the other one
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managing the actual, like calling
outreach relationship building side.
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And I think that you work together in a
team or in a one pair group. So you're
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talking about a full salary worth for
however many months, 10, 12 months to
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make it pay off in the end. So it's
really like Is that strategy going to
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give you enough revenue to pay for an
entire person? In my opinion, kind of
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makes sense. I mean, you have to
consider all the soft costs involved in
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a B M beyond the hard cost, right? But
you know, most B to B companies aren't
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like they're already doing a B M. To
some degree, it's just that the
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marketing department's not involved,
right marketings, mass advertising,
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usually in a BP company. And then sales
is actually doing a B M because they
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have their Kia countless. And it's just
that marketing is not really helping
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with those key accounts, and I think
that's why they even that's why I guess
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it's even called account based
marketing and not marketing and sales.
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Because sales has already been on this
page for a long time, mark that they're
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trying to wake up the fact that, like
hey, marketers in the B two B space
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like you should be a little bit more
aligned with sales with targeting your
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marketing efforts here, right when it
comes down to like a good user
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experience to, you know, you want your
your sales outreach should not conflict
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with what marketing saying, like, How
many times have we have marketers built
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redundancies into our programs to shut
off marketing communication as soon as
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sales gets involved so that those lines
don't cross right? And A B M is like a
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synergy between the two. But that's
exactly the point is so I'm and I still
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we joke in our circle that, like I want
to see someone that's actually done a B
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M and done it right like I feel like
I've gotten close. I've had a BM
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inspired strategies, right? But I have
never had a pure A B M play that I've
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built out. I've always wanted to, but I
can't find anyone gutsy enough to sink
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the money into it. But so I think that
I just want to see it done. I want to
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see it done right, and most of the time
that what people are calling A B M is
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just in a BM inspired campaign. Its's
personalized marketing. It's working
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closer to it, but it's not actually
hitting the point. So to you, it's not
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a B M unless it's 1 to 1 right. I think
that that is what I mean. It's account,
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maybe not 1 to 1, but you're definitely
creating your marketing per account.
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It's kind of in the name right. It's
account based marketing. So, like your
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market the whole point. We were all
excited about a B M when it came out
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like really amped, like when people
first started talking about it as a
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strategy and I was like Hell, yeah,
this would be great, like, let's
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absolutely go and and create marketing
for just that client And how How can we
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get to their How can we automated? But
then you start. It's like a lot of
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these things. You start unraveling the
problem and you're like, Wow, this is
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Ah, it's more specialized tool, A
really fantastic specialized tool that
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I probably need to go and get, like six
months of training and to be able to
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use before I just jump on it. But then
everybody is talking about it like if
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you have a business, you need to be
doing a B M, and I just think it's
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wrong. Oh, it's making me think. Okay,
so I think there's probably a number of
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people that are using a B m with the
big, expensive tools and doing it well.
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There's probably more people that are
have forked over the money for the
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tools and still haven't quite
implemented. They haven't taken the
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Ferrari out of the garage. I've heard
some people say right, it doesn't
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necessarily mean that it doesn't work.
It works. It's just hard, I mean, but
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so is so. Is hub spots inbound
marketing model like I've implemented a
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number of times. And then I have people
coming to me being like, Well, how did
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you actually like, Generate a lot of
revenue with it? Because if you are
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honest, like even the whole content
marketing thing, people are dropping
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money on the content and the marketing
automation software, and it's still
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only making up 10 20% of their inbound
revenue. Um, that they're generating
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from because it's hard to figure out
how to scale good content at least
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enough to where it's making up a
significant part of your pipeline,
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right? I agree, I agree, but I don't
think that's the I think that the issue
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people have is they're becoming too
focused on tactics. They're coming too
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focused on what they need to have in
their tool belt rather than just good
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marketing. Like I say this to people
all the time, like just do good
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marketing, deliver the right message to
the right audience at the right time.
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That's all it ISS. And if that means
you Onley post to a certain group of
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people on Facebook and that's what
butters all your bread, then don't
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don't build out email campaigns. Don't
do PPC if you don't need to, don't do
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it. And instead, we I think that's why
companies have issues with content.
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Marketing is because they're trying to
force a thing that's not a thing for
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them, either. It's not their brand,
it's not their personality, and they
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just feel they need to, or they haven't
found the content that really speaks to
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their audience or speaks to them.
That's easy for them to create. And
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then they get frustrated, and then they
waste money, and then they fire that
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marketer, and then the next marketer
comes in and he says, Hey, content
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marketing And then he's got to fight
that battle again. We need to go back
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to our roots of Just do good marketing.
Pick your tactics out like, be
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selective on what you dio. I've got a
couple of old with my wife, laughs me
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and calls him John ISMs. You know where
it's, uh, crawl, walk, run everything.
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90 10 rule. You know, all of these
buzzword rules have been famous for 20
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years. Like they still work. Stick to
him. I agree. I mean, definitely people
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have shiny object syndrome all the time.
I literally just told someone on
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Lincoln this morning when I woke up, I
saw the post. He's like, Oh, I'm gonna
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go and do all these things. I'm like,
No, you don't freaking pick to just
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stick to him. You already doing
LinkedIn clearly add podcasting to it
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or something, and that's it. Like,
don't do anything else. Ignore the
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other channels. Thank you. It's the
same thing for companies were even
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doing it here. A sweet fish. I'm like
we wanted to launch a newsletter and
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we've been kind of half half doing a
newsletter, and I'm like, trying to
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generate traffic. I'm like, Why were
freaking podcasting company? And this
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is probably the first anybody on this
show because I've talked about the
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newsletter multiple times so When was
the last time you ever bought anything
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off of a newsletter? Dan? I'm not their
fight. Your fight. I could fight your
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00:15:49.930 --> 00:15:53.650
fight for you, Dan. Like newsletters or
garbage. You really got to convince me
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00:15:53.650 --> 00:15:57.320
why we need to do one. Everyone does a
newsletter. You got to stand out. You
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00:15:57.320 --> 00:16:03.020
cannot. The day of newsletters was five
years ago, and it died. Now you could
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still do a newsletter and win. But it
better be one of your two or three if
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you're big enough, right? Like you
really just you can win with the
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newsletter. It's just it takes so much
effort to really win an act. Truly
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activate one channel that you really
need to go all in on one or two. I
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actually think it too. There's usually
a two combo punch. One more for
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discovery, More for your long form.
Usually short, firm, long form. You can
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usually make it work. I love that. No.
And I've built off of that like
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featured resource than you know, a
generalized content back and forth, you
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know, strategy before I've seen it. But
if I get one more email, that is just a
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list of 10 blog's that I saw on
LinkedIn earlier that week. I'm gonna
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lose my mind. You know, I've got, uh
let's see what I'm at 210,000 unready
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emails at this point in every
newsletter just adds to it. I had that
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argument actually, at an organization
in the past where we just I'm not anti
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00:16:56.680 --> 00:17:01.140
newsletter. I just need to be convinced
again that the newsletter is the best
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solution for the problem that we have
ahead of us. And not that we're just
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doing a newsletter because it's what
we've always done. So bring it back to
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a B M. Let me make a pitch to you and
see if you think that this is like a B
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00:17:13.450 --> 00:17:18.089
m done. Well, a B M. That's actually
will make sense For most people, this
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is the way we do it. I don't have, like,
fancy a bm software have hub spot,
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00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:27.400
which has some like a B M features in
it, right? Very minimal. So this is
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this is my game plan. At least this is
the game plan that I'm building so far.
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Just based on my own deep dive here
into a B M is I'm gonna pull a list on.
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I'm probably pull it from crunch base
because crunch based kind of has just
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the right details that I need. I can
narrow it down to about 102 100
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companies. Mhm. And then I'm a big fan
of the 1 to 1, and I'm probably I'm
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doing my best to make the best accounts.
I'm not gonna have all the intent
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driven stuff like that. It just becomes
really too expensive to figure out
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which ones have intent. I wish I knew
which ones had intent. I just don't. So
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what we do here at Sweet Fish and what
we usually help our customers Dio is
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create the list and then start inviting
all the people that specifically for us
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the VPs of marketing kind of like
yourself onto the show as guests. Right?
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And that's why we even named our our
show. Here be to be growth and not be
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to be podcasting. We name it, but about
their expertise, not our expertise.
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Because if we started about B two b
podcasting who listens to that people
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who already have a podcast which is not
our target buyer, right we need without
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a podcast. We have them onto the show.
We talk to him about essentially,
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however they're winning. However,
they're like killing it out there with
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their job. It might be about
newsletters. It might be about PPC
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might be about category creation, but
we talk about essentially a good case
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study of what they're doing to grow
their company. In the meantime, I
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usually ask a few questions getting a
feel for whether they're in the market
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for a podcast, and I either follow up
with them if they are or continue
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building the relationship afterwards.
Because relationships let's transcend
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marketing relationships can pan out to
so many wonderful things. But of course,
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those relationships can also quickly
pan out to be in customers, right?
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That's our 1 to 1. It's a very much a
bm approach because we're coming up
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with key companies we want to do
business with right. Like we conserve,
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we have them onto the show, provide
value by highlighting them as the
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guests, their expertise, and it's
essentially a great way for me to spend
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an hour with somebody getting to know
them. Building relationship building
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trust s so that when I asked. They like,
Hey, you should take a look at this.
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This might be helpful to you They're
usually pretty likely to look at,
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especially if I've done some work kind
of getting an idea. If they're in the
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market for it later, right? And it it
creates good content. We get 160 K
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downloads a month on this show, which
is a lot because we're Daily Show and
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it's good content. A lot of people
mentioned the episodes that we do just
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because it's people like to hear what
their peers air up to you. So we posted
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threat and stuff. So how do you feel
about that? Is an A B M play? So
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earlier when I said that I had done
some things in the past were a B M
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inspired. It's great minds, think alike.
We actually did that exact same kind of
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approach at Connective starting back in
like March and tested it out, and it
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actually works really, really well. For
all the reasons that you said, it gets
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your customers your potential audience
in. There's this thing that happens in
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sales and Justin people in general that
if you give someone something for free,
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and they're grateful for it.
Subconsciously, they owe you
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subconsciously. It's my wife and I
always joke about, like putting coins
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in each other's bank, right? And I'm
like, You know, I've been banking up
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coins I've been I've been doing all the
things around the house, all the stuff,
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and subconsciously, it creates an
imbalance between us, where now she
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feels like she owes me. It's the same
thing in sales, right? And so by
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bringing your customers in, having them
on the show, giving them a chance to
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make it all about them and they get to
talk, it automatically puts you in the
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upper foot or in the upper position.
Going into the next conversation right
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to it gives you an easy way to reach
out to him, which is beautiful with no
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sales pressure because it's like we're
giving it away. It's beautiful. Three.
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It's a never ending source of content
for you, which is the hardest problem
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in content. Marketing is finding your
well that you can consistently go back
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to, so that's beautiful. I think it's
fantastic. I think it's one of the
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closest things I've seen to a B M and I
think it's beautiful. And when it works,
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it works right. I really love the
approach we could argue in the pure
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form of Is it true a B M? But I think
it's close enough that I would call it.
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I think it's close enough that and
wonder what right? I'll even admit I'll
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00:21:29.070 --> 00:21:33.750
even say in that situation like that.
That's a true A B M play and where it
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actually makes sense. I also think it's
really unique, though, and definitely
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not what's been sold for the last five
years as what A. B. M is a za marketer.
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You're probably brainstorming outside
the box ideas to engage your prospects
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and customers working remotely. And
you've probably thought about sending
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00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:54.750
them direct mail to break through the
zoom fatigue. But how do you ship
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00:21:54.750 --> 00:21:58.700
personalized gifts to remote decision
makers when you have no idea where
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00:21:58.700 --> 00:22:02.900
they're sitting At B two B growth, we
use the Crafton platform to send hyper
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00:22:02.900 --> 00:22:07.090
personalized gifts toe anyone working
from anywhere. Crafton makes it easy
331
00:22:07.090 --> 00:22:10.720
for your prospects and customers to
pick and personalized their own gift in
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00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:15.040
real time and offers highly secure data
capture. So decision makers feel
333
00:22:15.040 --> 00:22:18.860
comfortable submitting their home
addresses for shipping purposes. To get
334
00:22:18.860 --> 00:22:24.030
your own personalized craft and gift,
go to craft, um dot io slash growth to
335
00:22:24.030 --> 00:22:27.280
schedule a demo and receive a
complimentary, personalized gift from
336
00:22:27.280 --> 00:22:31.650
craft. Um, to claim your personalized
gift, go to craft, um dot io slash
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00:22:31.650 --> 00:22:36.900
growth. So while I think it's a great A
B M approach, I mean, it's our approach.
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00:22:36.900 --> 00:22:40.070
So, like, of course, I'm a little
biased towards it, and I think it works.
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Course. I think it's beautiful. It's
still there's still other ways to do it.
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You can still do email outrage. There's
ways where you can systematically go
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after them. I think leading what the
podcast or an interview based show,
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whether it's YouTube or a blogger,
whatever is going toe work. But there's
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other ways to lead with value. I think
it's just harder and a little bit more
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sales e feeling when you're doing email
outreach or leading with gifts right or
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different things like that, then it
just people kind of know. I mean, it's
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not that they don't know what our
podcast sometimes, but it's still it's
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still better than I think. Marketing
was before because I'm coming from the
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B two c world. And I remember
everything changed when I understood
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how b two B was gonna play or how how
much more information I had and b two b
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because in B two c, you pretty much
just have to market to your persona.
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You know, you tryto segment your
information down as far as you can and
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get in front of the right crowd. But
you literally have no idea which ones
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are buyers and which ones aren't right.
So you just have to advertise to the
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segment of the masses and hope for the
best. It's dark, you just advertising
355
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blind. Ah, little less blind. If you
segment well. I love the way literally
356
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know the name of the person who gets to
make the decision easily. You could
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00:23:49.460 --> 00:23:53.910
just go to Lincoln for free, look up
the company, go to the page, look at VP
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00:23:53.910 --> 00:23:57.560
of marketing or just marketing and find
everybody who works in marketing at
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00:23:57.560 --> 00:24:02.530
that company or whatever it is. Whoever
it is, you sell Thio. It changes the
360
00:24:02.530 --> 00:24:06.660
game on B two b, which is why I think a
B M is the thing why I think it could
361
00:24:06.660 --> 00:24:10.710
be like you don't want to try to do too
much, but I think it should be Ah,
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primary strategy of everybody who who
has high contract value, whether it's
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in the tens of thousands. If you're in
the hundreds of thousands for sure,
364
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then I think a B M is a worthwhile play
or an approach, even a way of a type of
365
00:24:24.300 --> 00:24:26.920
thinking, because you're not
advertising the masses. Your
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00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:32.500
advertising, too, of select few or
marketing to whatever marketing means
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00:24:32.510 --> 00:24:38.070
area promotion means right? Right? I'm
not anti a B m. I think I'm anti false
368
00:24:38.070 --> 00:24:42.900
A B m hype, right? So I think that,
like like in your situation, it is a
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00:24:42.900 --> 00:24:46.120
beautiful example in which it can work.
And I've always maintained that in
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certain situations it is the most
elegant solution, right? But it's just
371
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not for everybody. I think as long as
in marketing, we continually try to get
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closer and closer to 1 to 1 that's
gonna push you in the right direction
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and so pick whatever path it is that
gets you to there and that's the course.
374
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That's your true north fantastic. So I
think We're mostly on the same page
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00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:09.770
there. Check it out. We landed in the
middle. I don't I understand the hype
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00:25:09.780 --> 00:25:13.550
because it's hard. It's hard to get
people to adopt a new way of thinking
377
00:25:13.550 --> 00:25:18.090
in a new approach, so they have to hype
it up right? So I get it. I get why the
378
00:25:18.090 --> 00:25:21.550
market's saturated with all these new
categories, because that's we kind of
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00:25:21.550 --> 00:25:25.420
know category design work. So it's hard
to win when somebody is number one in
380
00:25:25.420 --> 00:25:29.250
the category design or in a number one
in the category. So there's a
381
00:25:29.250 --> 00:25:32.970
proliferation proliferation. I'm
butchering that word. There's a lot. I
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00:25:32.970 --> 00:25:40.280
like it. I'm just so glad it was you
and not me this time. Yeah, you know,
383
00:25:40.290 --> 00:25:45.200
But hold your breath like there's a
whole new hop hip marketing strategy.
384
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:49.000
It'll be here. I don't know, like, six
months or whatever, and we'll all be
385
00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:52.600
obsessed with it, too. And then I same
advice will hold out right? Pick the
386
00:25:52.600 --> 00:25:55.730
right channel. That's right for you.
There you go. So the ones who hold out
387
00:25:55.730 --> 00:25:59.200
just stay focused on their one or two.
Maybe three channels are the ones who
388
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:04.420
are gonna win If only we could just get
distracted. Gosh, right. Yeah. Master
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00:26:04.420 --> 00:26:07.920
your one channel like it's Ah, I've
been wanting to do a talk for, like,
390
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.690
young marketers a lot. Like, definitely
master your one channel that you're
391
00:26:11.690 --> 00:26:15.550
really, really good at and just get
really stupid good at that one channel
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Dibble level and everything else you
know, just a little here and there. And
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then once you got really good in that
one, then pick your next one to move.
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And as long as you're just moving
closer to 1 to 1, you're gonna win. I
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mean, this games, there's enough people
out there doing bad marketing that as
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long as you do good marketing, this
game is pretty easy to win. Yeah, as
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long as you could stay focused. Just
curious, John, what are your one or two
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channels that you go all in on? So for
me, it's it's always gonna be a social
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component, and right now it's still
heavily email like those air going to
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00:26:46.900 --> 00:26:50.210
be my defaults that I'm gonna go to
almost always because email's gonna
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00:26:50.210 --> 00:26:54.410
play a role, whether it's in retention,
whether it's an acquisition in some way,
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00:26:54.410 --> 00:26:57.420
email's gonna play a role and then
socials like your best place to build
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00:26:57.420 --> 00:27:01.400
your organic reach. You have a
particular platform, social platform.
404
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:04.520
Are you doing all the social platform?
Everything. Anything and everything.
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00:27:04.530 --> 00:27:07.820
You pick a business product, and I
could tell you which networks gonna
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00:27:07.820 --> 00:27:11.030
work best. Yeah, but which one are you
using? Like what? What are using for
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00:27:11.030 --> 00:27:16.210
connective? So connective was is
heavily on linked in heavily on, like
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Twitter, but really linked in being the
primary focus. And then I think they're
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00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:25.020
gonna move towards clubhouse. I'm a big
fan of clubhouse, man. I'm all about it.
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00:27:25.020 --> 00:27:28.710
We've been we've been having from a
clubhouse. The reach is absolutely
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00:27:28.710 --> 00:27:33.210
astounding. The engagement is pretty
incredible. It's the Wild West. You
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00:27:33.210 --> 00:27:38.080
don't get on opportunity in the wild
west of social media. APS very often
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00:27:38.080 --> 00:27:42.470
like this is a rare time. So, like,
every marketer needs to just deep dive
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00:27:42.470 --> 00:27:45.480
into clubhouse right now. I don't know.
I feel like that opportunity comes
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00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:51.420
every other year. Two years ago was
ticktock So e, I guess, I guess
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00:27:51.430 --> 00:27:55.870
Clubhouse, I don't know if it's working
out or if there's a lot of activity
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00:27:55.870 --> 00:28:00.330
going on to the BBC World in the B two
B. It is where a Tic Tac was, of course,
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00:28:00.330 --> 00:28:04.580
more B two C because it started off
with junior hires in high schoolers. So
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00:28:04.590 --> 00:28:07.930
that's still actually, I think Tik TAKS
working its way up to a B two B crowd.
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00:28:07.940 --> 00:28:12.520
God, I hope I hope B two b never
touches ticktock and keeps it pure. I
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00:28:12.520 --> 00:28:16.850
cringe every like I hate it. It's just
a purist in me that loves ticktock and
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00:28:16.850 --> 00:28:20.350
wants to see B two b stay off of it.
Clubhouse is interesting because
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00:28:20.350 --> 00:28:25.220
clubhouse was never intended to be, ah,
business app. It was never designed to
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00:28:25.220 --> 00:28:31.170
be the linked in chat room that it has
become, and I've really enjoyed the
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00:28:31.640 --> 00:28:36.280
colliding worlds of what clubhouse waas?
And then what? Clubhouse became once
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00:28:36.280 --> 00:28:40.180
linked and influencers got ahold of it.
It'll be really interesting. It will be
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00:28:40.180 --> 00:28:43.380
very fun to watch the development of
this app. I think clubhouses around to
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00:28:43.380 --> 00:28:47.180
stay. It's the only one in its channel.
It's the only one that's hitting this
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00:28:47.180 --> 00:28:51.860
kind of, you know, chat room medium,
and I definitely think that we need to
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00:28:51.940 --> 00:28:55.920
pay attention. I think it's gonna be
around for a while. Well, we'll see. I
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00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:59.570
think our CEO James is putting a lot of
effort into clubhouse as a marketer.
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00:28:59.570 --> 00:29:03.280
I'm just trying to stay focused on our
three key channels, which is linked in
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00:29:03.280 --> 00:29:07.760
podcasting. And I have a knack for
getting blood post to rank. So and I
434
00:29:07.760 --> 00:29:11.420
have a writing team, so I'm that three
channels for me and I'm like, I can't
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00:29:11.420 --> 00:29:13.970
do more than three channels, which is
why we're killing our newsletter. I
436
00:29:13.970 --> 00:29:17.180
mean, you're you're killing it on
linked in, you know, And it sounds like
437
00:29:17.180 --> 00:29:20.570
you're killing it in the podcast space.
So it definitely sounds like I talked
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00:29:20.570 --> 00:29:23.200
to a lot of people have no idea what
they're actually talking about in a
439
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:26.730
really good at faking it. And it sounds
like you've got the right ideas on your
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00:29:26.730 --> 00:29:29.340
shoulders. You know, it's good to see
it's cool to see and thank you for
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00:29:29.340 --> 00:29:31.750
putting out good content so I could
just engage and I have to write
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00:29:31.750 --> 00:29:38.280
original stuff myself. Hey, well, it's
been a fun conversation. John. I really
443
00:29:38.280 --> 00:29:42.420
enjoyed enjoyed it. It's fun talking
from one practitioner to another,
444
00:29:42.430 --> 00:29:46.860
evaluating all these ideas and
specifically a B m for this series on a
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00:29:46.860 --> 00:29:51.690
B M. John, if people wanna follow up
with you and connect with you Where
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00:29:51.690 --> 00:29:57.050
where can they find you Online? Yeah,
I'm on LinkedIn at John Eichmann on
447
00:29:57.050 --> 00:30:00.930
Twitter at the John Eichmann. Because
there's a doctor that took my handle
448
00:30:00.940 --> 00:30:05.050
and, uh, yeah, reach out to me on their
Lincoln is probably the best place.
449
00:30:05.540 --> 00:30:08.940
Fantastic. John again, Thank you for
joining me on the B two B growth show
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00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:10.550
today. Alright, Thanks, Dan.
451
00:30:12.340 --> 00:30:16.010
One of the things we've learned about
podcast audience growth is that word of
452
00:30:16.010 --> 00:30:20.450
mouth works. It works really, really
well, actually. So if you love this
453
00:30:20.450 --> 00:30:24.610
show, it would be awesome if you texted
a friend to tell them about it. And if
454
00:30:24.610 --> 00:30:29.040
you send me a text with a screenshot of
the text you sent to your friend Meta I
455
00:30:29.040 --> 00:30:32.580
know. I'll send you a copy of my book
content based networking. How to
456
00:30:32.590 --> 00:30:36.030
instantly connect with anyone you want
to know. My cell phone number is
457
00:30:36.030 --> 00:30:42.260
4074903328 Happy texting