May 19, 2021

Unconventional Sales & Marketing Tactics

In this episode, Dan Sanchez and James Carbary talk with Michael Hanson, from Growth Genie, about unconventional sales and marketing tactics. 

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Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah, 2 00:00:05.340 --> 00:00:09.090 all right. Welcome back to be, to be growth. We are here live today on 3 00:00:09.090 --> 00:00:14.460 clubhouse with Mikey. Hansen Mikey is the ceo of growth genie and we're going 4 00:00:14.460 --> 00:00:19.690 to be talking about unconventional sales and marketing tactics if you're 5 00:00:19.690 --> 00:00:25.080 not already following dan and myself on clubhouse and you're listening to this 6 00:00:25.080 --> 00:00:30.060 podcast, make sure to do that at James Carberry at dan says, or you can just 7 00:00:30.060 --> 00:00:34.890 follow the B two B growth club on clubhouse Mikey. I'm pumped for this 8 00:00:34.890 --> 00:00:41.660 topic man. We, we got, I forget who connected us, but you're working with a 9 00:00:41.660 --> 00:00:45.220 lot of sales teams and you're trying to get sales teams to have more meaningful 10 00:00:45.220 --> 00:00:50.390 conversations and so there's a lot of tactics that I think we've all heard a 11 00:00:50.390 --> 00:00:54.060 bunch of people talking about and I want to focus this conversation on the 12 00:00:54.070 --> 00:00:58.700 unconventional stuff, the stuff that is not being talked about. And so before 13 00:00:58.700 --> 00:01:04.970 we get into some specifics, give us just a brief context as to why this is 14 00:01:04.970 --> 00:01:09.490 a topic you're so passionate about. Yeah, sure. I think it's a big topic at 15 00:01:09.490 --> 00:01:13.130 the moment is breaking through the noise. I think people are getting 16 00:01:13.140 --> 00:01:18.550 prospected more than ever. So you're like a decision maker, a company, if 17 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:22.520 you've got any kind of budget you probably receiving, you know, hundreds 18 00:01:22.520 --> 00:01:26.820 of emails every day of people trying to sell you stuff and most of the 19 00:01:26.830 --> 00:01:31.100 messaging isn't great. But what that means is even if you're messaging is 20 00:01:31.100 --> 00:01:34.240 good, it's quite difficult to break through that noise if you've got to 21 00:01:34.240 --> 00:01:39.000 stand out amongst all the clutter that's just drunken in people's inbox. 22 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:42.800 I think this is a topic of this. It's already obviously very important 23 00:01:42.800 --> 00:01:45.850 standing out. It's just gonna become more and more important. You know, as 24 00:01:45.850 --> 00:01:51.280 these kind of email automation tools rise is how can you stand out from the 25 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:54.530 rest of the sales people? I think that's kind of two sides to it. One is 26 00:01:54.530 --> 00:01:58.330 like the medium that you're using, and then two is the actual message doing 27 00:01:58.330 --> 00:02:02.390 like how can you stand out from the crowd. So, yeah, I think obviously when 28 00:02:02.390 --> 00:02:05.670 it comes to sales and marketing is important, but I'm a big believe are 29 00:02:05.670 --> 00:02:10.320 generally in the unconventional side of life. So yeah, that's why I wanted to 30 00:02:10.320 --> 00:02:15.140 do this. Yes. So let's dive into it, Michael. So, uh, people calling you 31 00:02:15.140 --> 00:02:17.990 Michael, we're friends now. So I'm calling you Mikey from here right now. 32 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:23.080 So Mikey. Let's dive into what are some of these unconventional tactics that 33 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:27.060 you've been seeing either through work with your customers or as a customer 34 00:02:27.060 --> 00:02:30.990 yourself. Being prospected by a lot of folks. What are some of these tactics 35 00:02:30.990 --> 00:02:33.280 that you think could be really effective and really helpful for the 36 00:02:33.280 --> 00:02:37.680 folks in the audience today? Yeah, sure. I think I'll start with more like the 37 00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:43.450 mediums and then I'll talk a little bit about the messaging. So I think if we, 38 00:02:43.460 --> 00:02:47.450 if we think about mediums, one of things that we're seeing working very 39 00:02:47.450 --> 00:02:51.380 well, voice votes or audio notes Arlington. A lot of people don't even 40 00:02:51.380 --> 00:02:56.010 know that you can actually send them. A lot of the response I get when I send 41 00:02:56.010 --> 00:02:58.950 someone a voice note. Arlington is like, wow, I didn't know you could do that 42 00:02:59.140 --> 00:03:01.930 just as a technical thing. Unfortunately, Lincoln doesn't allow 43 00:03:01.930 --> 00:03:07.090 you to send on desktops, you'd actually have to download the app on your mobile, 44 00:03:07.100 --> 00:03:10.500 which is actually quite annoying. So I prefer not to have work caps on my 45 00:03:10.500 --> 00:03:14.110 phone because I spend quite a lot of time procrastinating on things like, 46 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:17.890 like Lincoln. Um yeah, audio, that's really good. I really like them as well. 47 00:03:17.890 --> 00:03:21.180 There's a big buzz around video at the moment which I'll come on to in a 48 00:03:21.180 --> 00:03:25.110 minute. But I like audio notes as I find there are a lot more productive 49 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:29.620 because I feel like in sales there's always that balance between having very 50 00:03:29.620 --> 00:03:33.150 relevant messaging to your target audience, but also not spending, you 51 00:03:33.150 --> 00:03:36.730 know, like half an hour to like write an email. And I think just pressing a 52 00:03:36.730 --> 00:03:43.050 button on Lincoln to to send a voice note is very easy. The second method of 53 00:03:43.060 --> 00:03:47.380 mention is is video. Like I just said that's a bit more time consuming. And 54 00:03:47.380 --> 00:03:52.570 then in terms of video as few tools, video and loomer to that. But I use and 55 00:03:52.570 --> 00:03:57.270 actually allow you to share screen. Always think about sharing screen on 56 00:03:57.270 --> 00:04:00.050 something that's actually about your customer. I've seen a lot of people 57 00:04:00.050 --> 00:04:04.510 take videos sharing screen on their own product, which is not as impactful of 58 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:07.690 two things. I recommend. Maybe go on their linkedin profile, share screen on 59 00:04:07.690 --> 00:04:11.290 their linkedin profile, like pick out a couple of nuggets from there or share 60 00:04:11.290 --> 00:04:14.550 screen on their company website. Maybe you go to their case studies page and 61 00:04:14.550 --> 00:04:18.360 say, hey I notice you're you're working with this customer and then start a 62 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:23.190 story around that. So it's on the video side. And then uh last one I mentioned 63 00:04:23.190 --> 00:04:28.260 is uh is like direct mail and any gifts. There's a couple of tools that have 64 00:04:28.340 --> 00:04:31.890 really. Softwares are growing really quickly at the moment, reached desk and 65 00:04:31.890 --> 00:04:39.350 some do so and they integrate into your Crm and allow you to send stuff 66 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:42.790 directly to people's officers. It's a bit tricky at the moment because 67 00:04:42.790 --> 00:04:45.930 obviously people on in the office you have to send it to the home address, 68 00:04:45.930 --> 00:04:49.980 which can sometimes be more difficult to get hold of. You can also send them 69 00:04:49.990 --> 00:04:56.180 e gifts in the in the post as well. Um And I think, you know, like I said vs 70 00:04:56.180 --> 00:04:59.930 100 emails you may be getting a day, like sending someone a gift and not 71 00:04:59.930 --> 00:05:02.790 just any gift, you always need to think about what's relevant to them. What are 72 00:05:02.790 --> 00:05:08.310 their interests of research around them is a great tactic. Yeah, those those 73 00:05:08.310 --> 00:05:12.410 are kind of the mediums. I don't if you want me to get onto the master doing 74 00:05:12.410 --> 00:05:15.350 already, if you have some kind of questions around the medium's James. 75 00:05:15.350 --> 00:05:22.750 Yeah, so I'd be curious Mikey around audio notes. I've just noticed myself 76 00:05:23.340 --> 00:05:27.490 personally, I've been getting more and more of them and I've just caught 77 00:05:27.490 --> 00:05:33.150 myself kind of being less, I guess more resistant to actually listening to them. 78 00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:37.940 I think if I'm remembering correctly you can see how long they are in in 79 00:05:37.940 --> 00:05:42.640 your messages so I can see whether it's you know, a minute, 12 or you know four 80 00:05:42.640 --> 00:05:47.290 minutes. I think my thoughts would be obviously keep those as brief as you 81 00:05:47.290 --> 00:05:51.530 can if you can keep them under a minute. But what are your thoughts on length 82 00:05:51.540 --> 00:05:55.920 and then and then what the message, have you seen? Any effective message is 83 00:05:55.920 --> 00:06:00.530 done via voice note in linkedin? Yeah, definitely. And I think I think Lincoln 84 00:06:00.530 --> 00:06:03.920 actually limits you through a minute to harm me over a minute. You recommend 85 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:08.230 pretty like 30-40 seconds. Is is the sweet spot. You can actually also 86 00:06:08.230 --> 00:06:13.240 interestingly send uh audio notes or like SmS or what's that? What's, that 87 00:06:13.240 --> 00:06:18.550 isn't as prevalent in North America, It was selling outside North America and I 88 00:06:18.550 --> 00:06:22.190 think it's it's actually the same as if you're sending like an email or on the 89 00:06:22.190 --> 00:06:27.290 phone or whatever it is, that that 1st 10 seconds make it 100% about them. 90 00:06:27.290 --> 00:06:30.600 Because I always say this with like an email subject line, you've got the 91 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:34.410 subject line to get them to open and then you always got like a second 92 00:06:34.410 --> 00:06:38.980 subject line, which is almost like the subtitle of which is that first line of 93 00:06:38.980 --> 00:06:43.070 the, of the email. And it's the same with like linc Lincoln voice notes. 94 00:06:43.070 --> 00:06:46.580 Right? Like if I was gonna prospect you like to mention like this clubhouse 95 00:06:46.580 --> 00:06:50.590 from, for example, like, hey jones notice you did at all with Michael 96 00:06:50.590 --> 00:06:53.310 Hanson around convention, unconventional sales and marketing 97 00:06:53.310 --> 00:06:57.230 tactics. You mentioned voice notes. I'm sending you one now. So I always think 98 00:06:57.230 --> 00:07:01.780 about what's relevant to them. There's a big buzz at the moment in terms of 99 00:07:01.780 --> 00:07:06.430 personalization and I don't think you should never personalized kind of just 100 00:07:06.430 --> 00:07:10.550 for the sake of it. You've always got to tie it around to some kind of 101 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:14.350 business challenge that they're facing as well because I think you you get a 102 00:07:14.350 --> 00:07:17.180 lot of people just kind of personalizing just for the sake of it. 103 00:07:17.180 --> 00:07:22.530 So it's like 1st 10 seconds about them bring it back to some kind of business 104 00:07:22.530 --> 00:07:26.560 challenge that you know, they're probably facing based either on their 105 00:07:26.570 --> 00:07:32.590 their industry job title or something we call triggers. Um, and a trigger 106 00:07:32.590 --> 00:07:36.590 could be they're hiring a particular position, they're using a particular 107 00:07:36.590 --> 00:07:40.260 software. It could be any number of range of things that you may be able to 108 00:07:40.260 --> 00:07:44.450 find out through research and then you got your call to action and you call to 109 00:07:44.450 --> 00:07:46.770 action. Again, you've got to think there's a few different course of 110 00:07:46.770 --> 00:07:50.840 actions. You can have one could just be to send a piece of content. So it's 111 00:07:50.840 --> 00:07:55.630 actually what we recommend, like the first few touches kind of build 112 00:07:55.630 --> 00:08:00.720 interest. Like hey, we got some, I see that you're a sales leader in the 113 00:08:00.730 --> 00:08:04.390 marketing software space. So we've got a tactic around how you can sell to 114 00:08:04.400 --> 00:08:07.300 marketing leaders, some, some email templates or something. Like would you 115 00:08:07.300 --> 00:08:10.870 be interested in seeing it? So that's one tactic. Another tactic is obviously 116 00:08:10.870 --> 00:08:14.360 going more for the meeting. If you do that, you've always got to think about 117 00:08:14.360 --> 00:08:18.120 what's in it for them because people always just send like, hey, we got in a 118 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:23.590 30 minute call that's like what, 90% of 99 of sales people do you want to try 119 00:08:23.590 --> 00:08:26.560 and stand out from the crowd. And if you are going to ask for that meeting, 120 00:08:26.940 --> 00:08:31.680 it's important to say, what's the benefit of them to spend 15 minutes 121 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:34.919 with you? Like think about them. Like what, what's in it for them to spend 122 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:39.350 their 15 minutes to have to say, you know, interested in learning how we can 123 00:08:39.350 --> 00:08:43.520 help you do X, y and z and like make your life easier. So like, yeah, those 124 00:08:43.520 --> 00:08:46.620 are a few of the tips I recommend for voice notes that I think really stand 125 00:08:46.630 --> 00:08:51.240 out for any type of change. Awesome. What about videos? So we're big fans of 126 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:55.940 bom bom. You mentioned Loom and Vidyard. What are some things that you've been 127 00:08:55.940 --> 00:09:00.440 seeing work really well when it comes to video prospecting? Yes. So yeah, we 128 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:05.540 use those tools as well. Like I said, just sharing spring on something again, 129 00:09:05.540 --> 00:09:11.480 that that's relevant to them. So that could be their links and profile, that 130 00:09:11.480 --> 00:09:14.980 could be their company website, That could be a piece of concept. They're 131 00:09:14.980 --> 00:09:19.460 all they're all search. So we actually have a client called carter which is uh 132 00:09:19.940 --> 00:09:22.980 location intelligence platform, that probably doesn't mean anything to 133 00:09:22.990 --> 00:09:27.730 anyone, but it's essentially like a mapping software and they were getting 134 00:09:27.730 --> 00:09:32.270 targeted. Funny enough, I reached us the like direct mail software we just, 135 00:09:32.280 --> 00:09:38.770 I just mentioned and the, I think that one of the sdrs there had seen that on 136 00:09:38.770 --> 00:09:44.060 twitter, the VP of marketing, like spaghetti hoops on toast, which was 137 00:09:44.060 --> 00:09:47.680 just a weird things, it was like carbohydrates on carbohydrates. So they 138 00:09:47.680 --> 00:09:52.940 sent her a video of her twitter page and like started talking about this 139 00:09:52.940 --> 00:09:56.840 spaghetti hoops on toast. And I think sent them a voucher saying, hey, next 140 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:00.640 time you go to the supermarket, get yourself some spaghetti hoops. That's 141 00:10:00.640 --> 00:10:04.280 just a kind of cool example of, you know, being authentic and being rigid 142 00:10:04.280 --> 00:10:08.930 off. What are your thoughts Mikey on. So I feel like I was actually dale in 143 00:10:08.930 --> 00:10:13.840 the room. We were on a uh we're on a road trip this weekend and this this 144 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:19.550 conversation came up this idea that when you're trying to, you don't want 145 00:10:19.550 --> 00:10:22.240 to personalize just for the sake of personalization, but you've also got to 146 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:25.290 understand that the people that you're trying to reach out to There are 147 00:10:25.290 --> 00:10:29.130 hundreds of other people trying to reach out to them as well. And if you 148 00:10:29.130 --> 00:10:35.460 instead of focusing on trying to get 10 people to meaningfully engage with you, 149 00:10:35.470 --> 00:10:40.700 if you're instead focusing on trying to reach 1000, you're likely not going to 150 00:10:40.710 --> 00:10:45.200 engage anybody if you're trying to reach 1000. But if you think about it 151 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:49.990 in smaller terms uh and say man, what can I do today to get 10 people to 152 00:10:49.990 --> 00:10:53.820 meaningfully engage with me. It's doing the things like looking on somebody's 153 00:10:53.820 --> 00:10:57.230 twitter feed to see what, seeing what they're talking about, Looking at their 154 00:10:57.230 --> 00:11:01.260 linkedin profile to see if they're doing anything on clubhouse, but not 155 00:11:01.270 --> 00:11:08.180 everybody is as open as you or I or even dale or dan I know on this call or 156 00:11:08.180 --> 00:11:12.040 you know, I know Nick does this really well, like not everybody is creating a 157 00:11:12.040 --> 00:11:16.650 lot of content online. So do you have any suggestions for like, say you're 158 00:11:16.660 --> 00:11:20.990 prospecting into I. T. Uh we found at least with the folks that were, you 159 00:11:20.990 --> 00:11:24.580 know, the I. T. Folks that we're trying to get on our customers podcasts, it's 160 00:11:24.580 --> 00:11:29.380 tougher to find things out about them. Could you share some things like what 161 00:11:29.380 --> 00:11:33.250 what are some ways to personalize when somebody maybe isn't as active online? 162 00:11:33.640 --> 00:11:37.180 Yeah, that's a really great question. And we often face this challenge 163 00:11:37.180 --> 00:11:40.870 ourselves. So we we've got, you know, some modules around how to write 164 00:11:40.870 --> 00:11:45.910 personalized message doing for things like email and linked in and when we're 165 00:11:45.910 --> 00:11:50.780 doing training, if we if someone we say to our people were working with, you 166 00:11:50.780 --> 00:11:54.210 know, pick a target lead that fits your ideal customer profile. And then if we 167 00:11:54.210 --> 00:11:57.100 go in and then click on links in articles, et cetera, they haven't 168 00:11:57.100 --> 00:12:02.250 posted for a few months, they say, okay, what do we do now? You can just typing 169 00:12:02.260 --> 00:12:06.610 type on google, like good old google has some information maybe on twitter. 170 00:12:06.610 --> 00:12:10.620 And then if you can't find anything, they don't offer any content, then 171 00:12:10.620 --> 00:12:12.990 think about it from a company level, right? You're always going to be able 172 00:12:12.990 --> 00:12:16.380 to get some information at a company level, especially if you're selling 173 00:12:16.380 --> 00:12:20.910 into the enterprise, do some research. Look at maybe like annual reports, 174 00:12:20.910 --> 00:12:24.590 looking they're hiring, look at their website. Like I said, you can look at 175 00:12:24.590 --> 00:12:28.980 the types of customers that they have and then do it more company level. And 176 00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:32.620 actually that can be quite good from like a an account based perspective 177 00:12:32.630 --> 00:12:35.680 because what happens if you do a lot of research, we have some customers 178 00:12:35.680 --> 00:12:40.280 actually have sales technically that sells people, but they're more research 179 00:12:40.280 --> 00:12:43.520 and almost like getting a load of information for their sales team to 180 00:12:43.520 --> 00:12:47.670 then use an outreach. And that's really good because that information that you 181 00:12:47.670 --> 00:12:51.970 research at a company level, you can actually use that When you're reaching 182 00:12:51.970 --> 00:12:55.400 out like 10, 20 people there because that information is relevant to 183 00:12:55.400 --> 00:12:59.230 everyone within that company. Um that's probably what I do. If you can't get 184 00:12:59.230 --> 00:13:02.520 any information at a personal level, look at the information that you can 185 00:13:02.520 --> 00:13:08.080 get a company level. Hi dan Sanchez here with a quick break from this 186 00:13:08.090 --> 00:13:12.480 episode, sponsor Vidyard. If you haven't started using personal video 187 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:17.610 yet to enhance your marketing campaigns, you're missing out. Having the ability 188 00:13:17.610 --> 00:13:22.760 to quickly capture video and record my computer screen or both helps me not 189 00:13:22.760 --> 00:13:27.740 only create marketing assets faster, it makes them way more personable. I use 190 00:13:27.740 --> 00:13:31.920 personal videos and social media email blast landing pages and even on our 191 00:13:31.920 --> 00:13:37.220 website, Vidyard makes it easy to record host in bed and share videos to 192 00:13:37.220 --> 00:13:41.420 more deeply engaged with your ideal buyers prospects have told me 193 00:13:41.420 --> 00:13:46.600 repeatedly that they are blown away every time they get one for me. So sign 194 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:51.960 up for Vidyard free today by going to Vidyard dot com slash GDP growth and 195 00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:56.160 just like you guys, the team at Vidyard can't keep up with all these promo 196 00:13:56.160 --> 00:14:01.220 codes on podcasts, so they are making signing up as easy as possible. So no 197 00:14:01.220 --> 00:14:05.890 promo code needed. Just go to Vidyard dot com slash GDP growth to start using 198 00:14:05.890 --> 00:14:11.520 Vidyard completely free and as a bonus, get their 2021 B two B video trans 199 00:14:11.520 --> 00:14:17.050 guide. Yeah, that actually came up in our conversation as well. Mikey that 200 00:14:17.060 --> 00:14:20.790 going one level higher. If you can't find anything personal, find something 201 00:14:20.790 --> 00:14:23.840 around their company. I think that's a really good thought there. Um I want to 202 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:29.510 go ahead and uh and open up the room for anybody in the audience that has 203 00:14:29.510 --> 00:14:33.010 questions for Mikey. We're talking about unconventional sales and 204 00:14:33.010 --> 00:14:38.400 marketing tactics. Mikey is the ceo of growth Jeannie. If anybody has any 205 00:14:38.400 --> 00:14:43.450 questions, comments, thoughts, ideas around you know what, maybe what? Maybe 206 00:14:43.450 --> 00:14:47.060 it's not a question, but something that you found that's been working for you, 207 00:14:47.070 --> 00:14:51.090 going ahead and raise your hand, will bring you up on stage and uh and we'll 208 00:14:51.090 --> 00:14:56.370 talk through it with Mikey. So Mikey, my next question for you would be 209 00:14:56.370 --> 00:15:00.160 around you, you had mentioned like Sin does so and some other platforms. We 210 00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:05.210 use craft um for our custom gifting. What have you found that works really 211 00:15:05.210 --> 00:15:11.800 well when it comes to gifting? Yeah, this is this is a kind of hot question 212 00:15:11.800 --> 00:15:16.120 we're actually looking at internally at the moment because I've only used 213 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:21.170 gifting and like even he gifts more from like a closing perspective or like 214 00:15:21.170 --> 00:15:25.520 with warmer leads in the past, like as an a or even like customer success, 215 00:15:25.520 --> 00:15:29.150 it's it's worked really well. What we've typically done in those 216 00:15:29.150 --> 00:15:32.810 situations is obviously because we already have a relationship with the 217 00:15:32.810 --> 00:15:36.490 customer is like, say we want to send to get, This actually happened in the 218 00:15:36.490 --> 00:15:40.600 last company I worked for wanting to send a gift to like the CMO. But then 219 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:43.430 we're also working with the head of business development, you just ask the 220 00:15:43.430 --> 00:15:46.920 head of business development, like what do they like, what are their interests, 221 00:15:46.920 --> 00:15:49.450 what are your hobbies? Like what can we send that's going to make them happy? 222 00:15:49.450 --> 00:15:54.120 So there was one person who actually, because I knew this person, I knew they 223 00:15:54.130 --> 00:15:58.380 really like running. We like sending a Nike gift card at christmas and said, 224 00:15:58.380 --> 00:16:02.110 hey, you know, buy yourself a new pair of trainers to like, you can run off 225 00:16:02.110 --> 00:16:08.450 your christmas dinners in, in january. And then yes, I think those warmer 226 00:16:08.450 --> 00:16:12.590 leads is kind of easy. I think for cold leads were actually kind of new to this 227 00:16:12.590 --> 00:16:17.320 and we're seeing that it does work well, but it's new to us and we're trying to 228 00:16:17.330 --> 00:16:21.670 include things like uh, you know, e gifts and direct mail touches, even 229 00:16:21.680 --> 00:16:26.110 like colder leads. And uh I think again this comes down to like the research 230 00:16:26.110 --> 00:16:29.610 side of things that you can find anything on linkedin or twitter or 231 00:16:29.610 --> 00:16:33.950 wherever it may be on the inside. That that's good. And I think the more niche 232 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:38.710 you can find things actually the better because that's even more, that's always 233 00:16:38.710 --> 00:16:41.990 what I say, like when you're doing research, if you find something that's 234 00:16:41.990 --> 00:16:46.200 very strange, like the spaghetti hoops example that I gave earlier, that's a 235 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:49.500 really nice thing to do because that's super unique. So that's one of the 236 00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:52.880 things I recommend because I've the opposite of that. I've actually got a 237 00:16:52.880 --> 00:16:56.870 few people have sent me gifts recently where a small companies, it wasn't to 238 00:16:56.870 --> 00:16:59.520 get business because we're actually like, thank you gifts, which is great 239 00:16:59.520 --> 00:17:03.640 for like a couple of speaking gigs I've done. But what they did was send me 240 00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:07.500 alcohol and like, I actually haven't really drunk for like a couple of years. 241 00:17:07.500 --> 00:17:11.000 I don't really drink anymore. And I was a good example of, again, we're gonna 242 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.160 send this person a gift, but we're not going to really put any thought into it. 243 00:17:14.170 --> 00:17:17.400 Obviously if they message me or ask a friend, they would have known that, you 244 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:19.920 know, I don't really drink whiskey even though they sent me a bottle of whiskey. 245 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:24.460 So you always do like a bit of research to find what someone likes, rather just 246 00:17:24.460 --> 00:17:28.690 kind of standing there just for this, I think about love it. All right, Mikey. 247 00:17:28.690 --> 00:17:31.800 One of the things that we are, you know, we've obviously built an entire 248 00:17:31.800 --> 00:17:37.700 business around this idea, but it is absolutely, you know, a strategy or 249 00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:41.590 tactic, whatever you want to call it. But it's this idea of engaging your 250 00:17:41.590 --> 00:17:45.750 decision makers at your target accounts by collaborating with them on a piece 251 00:17:45.750 --> 00:17:49.770 of content. So we ask a lot of our ideal buyers to be a guest on our 252 00:17:49.770 --> 00:17:54.920 podcast to be growth. We also do, you know, different types of collaborations 253 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:59.980 with them so well, do you know, blog post with them? We will do, I've seen, 254 00:17:59.990 --> 00:18:04.660 I've seen companies do like awards where they're collaborating in in a 255 00:18:04.670 --> 00:18:09.220 little bit different of away. They're like nominating them for some award and 256 00:18:09.230 --> 00:18:13.500 those types of content collaboration I've found to be incredibly effective 257 00:18:13.510 --> 00:18:17.550 at actually building meaningful relationships instead of leading with, 258 00:18:17.560 --> 00:18:22.350 hey, look at my product, look at what I sell its, Hey, I want to shine my 259 00:18:22.350 --> 00:18:26.580 spotlight on you. We want to feature you in some content that we're creating. 260 00:18:26.590 --> 00:18:30.580 What are your thoughts around that strategy or that motion? Have you, have 261 00:18:30.580 --> 00:18:35.350 you seen it effective? Be effective for anybody that you've worked with? Yeah, 262 00:18:35.350 --> 00:18:39.050 I mean that's, that's a brilliant strategy and it's kind of similar to 263 00:18:39.050 --> 00:18:43.500 what I was saying before. Like we have a long cadence and often when people 264 00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:46.430 see, you know, the multiple touch points we have in cadence. So I always 265 00:18:46.430 --> 00:18:49.820 waited many touches and I say, well, no, not, we're not asking for a meeting on 266 00:18:49.820 --> 00:18:54.090 that first link in the email message, whatever it is we're saying, hey, 267 00:18:54.090 --> 00:18:57.580 here's a piece of content that we think could be valuable for you. And in your 268 00:18:57.580 --> 00:19:00.880 case is one step further, you're actually asking them to be on the 269 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:04.490 podcast, making them feel important, giving them exposure to people as well, 270 00:19:04.490 --> 00:19:08.020 which is great. And that are the last company I used to work for before I 271 00:19:08.020 --> 00:19:12.180 started growth Jeannie. We actually did that, we were very outbound focus. So 272 00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:16.570 I'd say like 90% of our pipeline was coming from out bounding like 10% 273 00:19:16.580 --> 00:19:21.720 inbound. But even though our podcast, not many people listen to it, we 274 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:25.030 actually got quite a lot of customers out of it because we would invite 275 00:19:25.040 --> 00:19:29.330 people that fitted are ideal customer profiles and then after having a 276 00:19:29.330 --> 00:19:32.240 conversation with them, you get to know them and they're like, hey actually we 277 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:37.210 could use your services say 100% agree with that strategy. Yeah, there's a lot 278 00:19:37.210 --> 00:19:42.210 of, I think you can, you can go down a bad path with that. If you're clearly 279 00:19:42.210 --> 00:19:47.440 just using the podcast interview as a veiled discovery call, you have to go 280 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:52.410 into it actually wanting to create really great content and by featuring 281 00:19:52.410 --> 00:19:56.560 your ideal customer and asking them about their expertise and how they've 282 00:19:56.560 --> 00:20:01.100 overcome challenges. It's naturally going to be good content for other 283 00:20:01.100 --> 00:20:04.420 people that are in their shoes. So in our case by talking to be piece of 284 00:20:04.420 --> 00:20:09.460 marketing naturally, we're creating really great content for VPs of 285 00:20:09.460 --> 00:20:13.510 marketing because they're hearing from their peers and we genuinely want to 286 00:20:13.510 --> 00:20:18.110 create great content with them. The byproduct is the relationship with them 287 00:20:18.110 --> 00:20:22.050 and we know that we end up doing a lot of business with our guests because we 288 00:20:22.050 --> 00:20:25.450 formed genuine relationships, but if you're going in, just trying to 289 00:20:25.940 --> 00:20:30.900 bamboozle them into a meeting, I mean, nobody, it's just not going to where 290 00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:33.190 people are going to see right through it. So you've got to go into it with 291 00:20:33.190 --> 00:20:37.320 the right mindset, but it's good to know that you've seen incredible 292 00:20:37.320 --> 00:20:42.140 results from that as well. We brought up Justin jeffers Justin it looks like 293 00:20:42.140 --> 00:20:46.890 from your clubhouse profile that That you're in animation and you do some 294 00:20:46.890 --> 00:20:51.340 stuff with three D. Which sounds super interesting. But what is your question 295 00:20:51.340 --> 00:20:55.270 or comment? Hey, thanks for inviting me up on the stage. Yeah, I have a 296 00:20:55.270 --> 00:20:58.210 question. I'd like to turn in a little bit because I'm actually trying to 297 00:20:58.210 --> 00:21:02.980 reach out to marketing marketers and marketing firms because we partner with 298 00:21:02.980 --> 00:21:08.160 them to help them create more robust video animations, two D. And three D. 299 00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:14.650 And so what I want to ask is I'm reaching out by email via phone. The 300 00:21:14.650 --> 00:21:19.320 phone calls oftentimes No one in the office, so no one's answering or 301 00:21:19.320 --> 00:21:22.110 someone's there who's not a decision maker and they can't read, you know, 302 00:21:22.110 --> 00:21:28.200 whatever emails go unseen or trashed and I'm working on that. By the way. I 303 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:35.240 see dale. The Prius here. Hi dale. Big inspiration man. Anyway, how can I 304 00:21:35.250 --> 00:21:40.260 unconventionally reach out to marketing teams and marketers? They're probably, 305 00:21:40.840 --> 00:21:43.860 you know, I don't know what's a game, what's something that I can do to 306 00:21:43.870 --> 00:21:48.800 really get their attention? So my first thought Justin and mike I'm sure has 307 00:21:48.800 --> 00:21:52.580 some thoughts here too. But my first thought is because what you're doing is 308 00:21:52.580 --> 00:21:58.630 just really freaking cool. You're doing three D. Renderings of things. My 309 00:21:58.630 --> 00:22:03.930 question would be, could you, could you somehow do some sort of three D. Render 310 00:22:03.940 --> 00:22:08.570 that you could tweak to where it's accustomed to the person that you're 311 00:22:08.570 --> 00:22:12.340 sending it to. You don't need to create a whole new thing for every person that 312 00:22:12.340 --> 00:22:16.110 you reach out to. But have you tried that at all? I have inquired about that 313 00:22:16.110 --> 00:22:22.290 a little bit. The problem is that I'm not really the animator, I'm just the 314 00:22:22.300 --> 00:22:29.180 connection point between someone and our studio. My role is account 315 00:22:29.180 --> 00:22:34.170 executive and I'm really doing a lot of different whatever sales roll, funk, 316 00:22:34.170 --> 00:22:37.980 whatever title you want to give me. But that's the difficult part. And I've 317 00:22:37.990 --> 00:22:41.340 gotten that feedback before a little bit. Um, you know, create something and 318 00:22:41.340 --> 00:22:46.150 give it to them for free. Like an animated logo would be one thing and 319 00:22:46.150 --> 00:22:49.420 I'm working on that with the studio to try to help them. We're working on some 320 00:22:49.420 --> 00:22:54.770 support, basically support media for me and and the rest of our sales team. 321 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:59.650 Mikey. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I actually agree with with you James 322 00:22:59.660 --> 00:23:03.560 because I, I imagine it takes quite a lot of effort to make those little 323 00:23:03.560 --> 00:23:07.420 videos. Maybe it could even be like a five second video, 12th video wherever 324 00:23:07.420 --> 00:23:11.290 it is. So it's not a lot of work for your animation team. And then another 325 00:23:11.290 --> 00:23:15.100 thing I would say as well as rather than giving it to them, this is 326 00:23:15.100 --> 00:23:19.090 something that we've kind of learned over the past couple of years is when 327 00:23:19.090 --> 00:23:22.580 you're giving away a piece of content, actually don't send it to them straight 328 00:23:22.580 --> 00:23:26.840 away, like create curiosity about it and say we've got a piece of content. I 329 00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:30.380 thought it could be interesting because you're a marketer and you're going to 330 00:23:30.380 --> 00:23:34.290 be facing X, Y and Z. Content creation challenges for videos. I don't know 331 00:23:34.290 --> 00:23:37.960 your industries, you'll know your customer pains a lot better than us. 332 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:42.250 Would you be interested in us sending a five minute teaser video? Like what 333 00:23:42.250 --> 00:23:45.420 that would look like? And then the reason that works well is they have to 334 00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:49.120 reply to get it. So you're starting a conversation with them. It's rather 335 00:23:49.120 --> 00:23:53.270 just like giving them the content like create some kind of curiosity around 336 00:23:53.270 --> 00:23:57.380 that. Um and that's something that's been working really well for us and our 337 00:23:57.380 --> 00:24:01.710 customers. Okay, great. Thank you so much. Awesome. Justin do we have your 338 00:24:01.710 --> 00:24:06.660 permission to share your voice on the recording of this for our podcast? Yes, 339 00:24:06.740 --> 00:24:11.660 awesome. Thank you. Mikey. Is there anything else related to unconventional 340 00:24:11.660 --> 00:24:14.520 sales and marketing tactics that you'd like to share before we shut this one 341 00:24:14.520 --> 00:24:18.420 down today? Yeah. Something I realized I didn't talk about earlier in terms of 342 00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:23.310 mediums was SMS and WhatsApp. I mentioned it briefly, but it wasn't in 343 00:24:23.310 --> 00:24:28.420 my top three. I think I said video, audio notes And um direct man and e 344 00:24:28.420 --> 00:24:32.850 gifting. So to give you like a start, I think the average open rate for a cold 345 00:24:32.850 --> 00:24:39.050 email is 20 versus 19 for for an sms. And I think there's a lot of hang ups 346 00:24:39.050 --> 00:24:43.960 around SmS because people say it's very personal and you know, you shouldn't be 347 00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:47.290 using it for business means, but it's the same as anything else. If you're 348 00:24:47.290 --> 00:24:51.470 messaging is super relevant to the person you're reaching out to, then why 349 00:24:51.470 --> 00:24:55.750 can't you use it? And if anything, it's it's actually better that people aren't 350 00:24:55.750 --> 00:24:59.260 using it because you can break through the noise. People aren't receiving 100 351 00:24:59.270 --> 00:25:03.600 business smS is a day. They are receiving 100 business emails, so you 352 00:25:03.610 --> 00:25:08.510 don't write off SmS and what's that? Just again, like anything just create 353 00:25:08.510 --> 00:25:13.780 very targeted messaging. Yeah, I had somebody I actually had an SDR reach 354 00:25:13.780 --> 00:25:17.640 out to me, I guess it was a couple weeks ago and it was it was such a 355 00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:21.450 personalized message. She even used my wife's name because I used my wife's 356 00:25:21.450 --> 00:25:26.790 name, and some of my some of my social media profiles, and so she incorporated 357 00:25:26.790 --> 00:25:30.840 my faith and like a lot of different things into the text message and ended 358 00:25:30.840 --> 00:25:35.440 up making me want to reach out and tried to hire her On our test team. Uh, 359 00:25:35.450 --> 00:25:38.780 so I think that there's huge opportunity there, but you cannot take 360 00:25:38.780 --> 00:25:43.340 a spamming approach to it if you're sending the same type of message via 361 00:25:43.340 --> 00:25:48.410 text that you're sending. Uh a lot of the messages that I'm sure you see to 362 00:25:48.410 --> 00:25:52.830 Mikey that I definitely see on linkedin that just looked like it was sent to 363 00:25:52.830 --> 00:25:57.180 10,000 people. You're going to piss off a lot of people real quick. So 364 00:25:57.190 --> 00:26:00.760 definitely don't do that and take my keys advice of making sure that it's 365 00:26:00.760 --> 00:26:05.660 accustomed to them. But I absolutely believe in s a message of channel Mikey. 366 00:26:05.660 --> 00:26:11.890 If there's anybody listening live that wants to stay connected with you or or 367 00:26:11.890 --> 00:26:14.110 they're listening on the podcast and I want to stay connected with you, what's 368 00:26:14.110 --> 00:26:18.800 the best way for them to do that? Yeah, sure. So follow me on, on linkedin, if 369 00:26:18.800 --> 00:26:23.460 you just type in Michael Hanson growth Jeannie there by profile should come up. 370 00:26:23.840 --> 00:26:28.200 Welcome to email me as well. It's M Hanson at growth genie dot co, I 371 00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:32.140 couldn't get the dot com domain, so it's dot unfortunately. Yeah, those are 372 00:26:32.140 --> 00:26:35.640 probably the two best channels and I'm always happy to help anyone whether 373 00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:40.280 you're an SDR VPs, L was found or whatever it is. I'm get out wonderful, 374 00:26:40.290 --> 00:26:43.300 awesome Mikey. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Justin, thanks for 375 00:26:43.300 --> 00:26:48.460 jumping up on stage and asking a question again, if you're listening to 376 00:26:48.460 --> 00:26:52.100 B B growth on, you know, some sort of a podcast platform and you're not already 377 00:26:52.100 --> 00:26:57.270 following dan or myself on clubhouse, do that at dan Chevez or at James. 378 00:26:57.270 --> 00:27:01.820 Carberry can also follow the B two B Growth club on clubhouse. We're doing 379 00:27:01.820 --> 00:27:07.370 these monday to friday from 12 to 12, 30 Eastern time and we're going to be 380 00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:10.650 probably continuing to do them through april. We were originally just testing 381 00:27:10.650 --> 00:27:15.260 it to see if we can make the marketing at noon room work through March, but 382 00:27:15.270 --> 00:27:18.090 it's going really well. We're having a lot of fun with it and so we're going 383 00:27:18.090 --> 00:27:21.630 to continue doing it through april. But thank you all so much for being here. 384 00:27:21.630 --> 00:27:24.060 Thank you. Might be, this has been incredible. Also 385 00:27:26.140 --> 00:27:30.830 is your buyer at VtB marketer. If so, you should think about sponsoring this 386 00:27:30.830 --> 00:27:35.640 Podcast. BTB growth gets downloaded over one 130,000 times each month and 387 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:39.310 our listeners are marketing decision makers. If it sounds interesting, send 388 00:27:39.310 --> 00:27:42.360 Logan and email Logan at sweet Fish Media dot com.