Transcript
WEBVTT
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Yeah,
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all right. Welcome back to be, to be
growth. We are here live today on
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clubhouse with Mikey. Hansen Mikey is
the ceo of growth genie and we're going
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to be talking about unconventional
sales and marketing tactics if you're
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not already following dan and myself on
clubhouse and you're listening to this
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podcast, make sure to do that at James
Carberry at dan says, or you can just
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follow the B two B growth club on
clubhouse Mikey. I'm pumped for this
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topic man. We, we got, I forget who
connected us, but you're working with a
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lot of sales teams and you're trying to
get sales teams to have more meaningful
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conversations and so there's a lot of
tactics that I think we've all heard a
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bunch of people talking about and I
want to focus this conversation on the
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unconventional stuff, the stuff that is
not being talked about. And so before
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we get into some specifics, give us
just a brief context as to why this is
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a topic you're so passionate about.
Yeah, sure. I think it's a big topic at
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the moment is breaking through the
noise. I think people are getting
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prospected more than ever. So you're
like a decision maker, a company, if
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you've got any kind of budget you
probably receiving, you know, hundreds
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of emails every day of people trying to
sell you stuff and most of the
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messaging isn't great. But what that
means is even if you're messaging is
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good, it's quite difficult to break
through that noise if you've got to
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stand out amongst all the clutter
that's just drunken in people's inbox.
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I think this is a topic of this. It's
already obviously very important
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standing out. It's just gonna become
more and more important. You know, as
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these kind of email automation tools
rise is how can you stand out from the
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rest of the sales people? I think
that's kind of two sides to it. One is
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like the medium that you're using, and
then two is the actual message doing
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like how can you stand out from the
crowd. So, yeah, I think obviously when
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it comes to sales and marketing is
important, but I'm a big believe are
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generally in the unconventional side of
life. So yeah, that's why I wanted to
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do this. Yes. So let's dive into it,
Michael. So, uh, people calling you
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Michael, we're friends now. So I'm
calling you Mikey from here right now.
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So Mikey. Let's dive into what are some
of these unconventional tactics that
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you've been seeing either through work
with your customers or as a customer
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yourself. Being prospected by a lot of
folks. What are some of these tactics
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that you think could be really
effective and really helpful for the
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folks in the audience today? Yeah, sure.
I think I'll start with more like the
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mediums and then I'll talk a little bit
about the messaging. So I think if we,
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if we think about mediums, one of
things that we're seeing working very
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well, voice votes or audio notes
Arlington. A lot of people don't even
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know that you can actually send them. A
lot of the response I get when I send
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someone a voice note. Arlington is like,
wow, I didn't know you could do that
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just as a technical thing.
Unfortunately, Lincoln doesn't allow
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you to send on desktops, you'd actually
have to download the app on your mobile,
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which is actually quite annoying. So I
prefer not to have work caps on my
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phone because I spend quite a lot of
time procrastinating on things like,
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like Lincoln. Um yeah, audio, that's
really good. I really like them as well.
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There's a big buzz around video at the
moment which I'll come on to in a
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minute. But I like audio notes as I
find there are a lot more productive
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because I feel like in sales there's
always that balance between having very
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relevant messaging to your target
audience, but also not spending, you
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know, like half an hour to like write
an email. And I think just pressing a
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button on Lincoln to to send a voice
note is very easy. The second method of
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mention is is video. Like I just said
that's a bit more time consuming. And
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then in terms of video as few tools,
video and loomer to that. But I use and
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actually allow you to share screen.
Always think about sharing screen on
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something that's actually about your
customer. I've seen a lot of people
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take videos sharing screen on their own
product, which is not as impactful of
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two things. I recommend. Maybe go on
their linkedin profile, share screen on
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their linkedin profile, like pick out a
couple of nuggets from there or share
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screen on their company website. Maybe
you go to their case studies page and
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say, hey I notice you're you're working
with this customer and then start a
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story around that. So it's on the video
side. And then uh last one I mentioned
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is uh is like direct mail and any gifts.
There's a couple of tools that have
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really. Softwares are growing really
quickly at the moment, reached desk and
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some do so and they integrate into your
Crm and allow you to send stuff
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directly to people's officers. It's a
bit tricky at the moment because
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obviously people on in the office you
have to send it to the home address,
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which can sometimes be more difficult
to get hold of. You can also send them
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e gifts in the in the post as well. Um
And I think, you know, like I said vs
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100 emails you may be getting a day,
like sending someone a gift and not
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just any gift, you always need to think
about what's relevant to them. What are
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their interests of research around them
is a great tactic. Yeah, those those
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are kind of the mediums. I don't if you
want me to get onto the master doing
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already, if you have some kind of
questions around the medium's James.
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Yeah, so I'd be curious Mikey around
audio notes. I've just noticed myself
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personally, I've been getting more and
more of them and I've just caught
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myself kind of being less, I guess more
resistant to actually listening to them.
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I think if I'm remembering correctly
you can see how long they are in in
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your messages so I can see whether it's
you know, a minute, 12 or you know four
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minutes. I think my thoughts would be
obviously keep those as brief as you
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can if you can keep them under a minute.
But what are your thoughts on length
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and then and then what the message,
have you seen? Any effective message is
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done via voice note in linkedin? Yeah,
definitely. And I think I think Lincoln
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actually limits you through a minute to
harm me over a minute. You recommend
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pretty like 30-40 seconds. Is is the
sweet spot. You can actually also
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interestingly send uh audio notes or
like SmS or what's that? What's, that
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isn't as prevalent in North America, It
was selling outside North America and I
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think it's it's actually the same as if
you're sending like an email or on the
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phone or whatever it is, that that 1st
10 seconds make it 100% about them.
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Because I always say this with like an
email subject line, you've got the
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subject line to get them to open and
then you always got like a second
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subject line, which is almost like the
subtitle of which is that first line of
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the, of the email. And it's the same
with like linc Lincoln voice notes.
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Right? Like if I was gonna prospect you
like to mention like this clubhouse
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from, for example, like, hey jones
notice you did at all with Michael
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Hanson around convention,
unconventional sales and marketing
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tactics. You mentioned voice notes. I'm
sending you one now. So I always think
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about what's relevant to them. There's
a big buzz at the moment in terms of
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personalization and I don't think you
should never personalized kind of just
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for the sake of it. You've always got
to tie it around to some kind of
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business challenge that they're facing
as well because I think you you get a
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lot of people just kind of
personalizing just for the sake of it.
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So it's like 1st 10 seconds about them
bring it back to some kind of business
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challenge that you know, they're
probably facing based either on their
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their industry job title or something
we call triggers. Um, and a trigger
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could be they're hiring a particular
position, they're using a particular
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software. It could be any number of
range of things that you may be able to
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find out through research and then you
got your call to action and you call to
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action. Again, you've got to think
there's a few different course of
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actions. You can have one could just be
to send a piece of content. So it's
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actually what we recommend, like the
first few touches kind of build
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interest. Like hey, we got some, I see
that you're a sales leader in the
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marketing software space. So we've got
a tactic around how you can sell to
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marketing leaders, some, some email
templates or something. Like would you
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be interested in seeing it? So that's
one tactic. Another tactic is obviously
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going more for the meeting. If you do
that, you've always got to think about
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what's in it for them because people
always just send like, hey, we got in a
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30 minute call that's like what, 90% of
99 of sales people do you want to try
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and stand out from the crowd. And if
you are going to ask for that meeting,
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it's important to say, what's the
benefit of them to spend 15 minutes
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with you? Like think about them. Like
what, what's in it for them to spend
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their 15 minutes to have to say, you
know, interested in learning how we can
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help you do X, y and z and like make
your life easier. So like, yeah, those
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are a few of the tips I recommend for
voice notes that I think really stand
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out for any type of change. Awesome.
What about videos? So we're big fans of
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bom bom. You mentioned Loom and Vidyard.
What are some things that you've been
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seeing work really well when it comes
to video prospecting? Yes. So yeah, we
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use those tools as well. Like I said,
just sharing spring on something again,
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that that's relevant to them. So that
could be their links and profile, that
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could be their company website, That
could be a piece of concept. They're
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all they're all search. So we actually
have a client called carter which is uh
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location intelligence platform, that
probably doesn't mean anything to
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anyone, but it's essentially like a
mapping software and they were getting
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targeted. Funny enough, I reached us
the like direct mail software we just,
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I just mentioned and the, I think that
one of the sdrs there had seen that on
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twitter, the VP of marketing, like
spaghetti hoops on toast, which was
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just a weird things, it was like
carbohydrates on carbohydrates. So they
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sent her a video of her twitter page
and like started talking about this
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spaghetti hoops on toast. And I think
sent them a voucher saying, hey, next
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time you go to the supermarket, get
yourself some spaghetti hoops. That's
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just a kind of cool example of, you
know, being authentic and being rigid
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off. What are your thoughts Mikey on.
So I feel like I was actually dale in
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the room. We were on a uh we're on a
road trip this weekend and this this
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conversation came up this idea that
when you're trying to, you don't want
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to personalize just for the sake of
personalization, but you've also got to
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understand that the people that you're
trying to reach out to There are
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hundreds of other people trying to
reach out to them as well. And if you
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instead of focusing on trying to get 10
people to meaningfully engage with you,
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if you're instead focusing on trying to
reach 1000, you're likely not going to
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engage anybody if you're trying to
reach 1000. But if you think about it
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in smaller terms uh and say man, what
can I do today to get 10 people to
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meaningfully engage with me. It's doing
the things like looking on somebody's
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twitter feed to see what, seeing what
they're talking about, Looking at their
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linkedin profile to see if they're
doing anything on clubhouse, but not
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everybody is as open as you or I or
even dale or dan I know on this call or
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you know, I know Nick does this really
well, like not everybody is creating a
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lot of content online. So do you have
any suggestions for like, say you're
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prospecting into I. T. Uh we found at
least with the folks that were, you
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know, the I. T. Folks that we're trying
to get on our customers podcasts, it's
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tougher to find things out about them.
Could you share some things like what
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what are some ways to personalize when
somebody maybe isn't as active online?
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Yeah, that's a really great question.
And we often face this challenge
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ourselves. So we we've got, you know,
some modules around how to write
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personalized message doing for things
like email and linked in and when we're
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doing training, if we if someone we say
to our people were working with, you
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know, pick a target lead that fits your
ideal customer profile. And then if we
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go in and then click on links in
articles, et cetera, they haven't
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posted for a few months, they say, okay,
what do we do now? You can just typing
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type on google, like good old google
has some information maybe on twitter.
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And then if you can't find anything,
they don't offer any content, then
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think about it from a company level,
right? You're always going to be able
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to get some information at a company
level, especially if you're selling
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into the enterprise, do some research.
Look at maybe like annual reports,
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looking they're hiring, look at their
website. Like I said, you can look at
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the types of customers that they have
and then do it more company level. And
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actually that can be quite good from
like a an account based perspective
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because what happens if you do a lot of
research, we have some customers
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actually have sales technically that
sells people, but they're more research
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and almost like getting a load of
information for their sales team to
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then use an outreach. And that's really
good because that information that you
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research at a company level, you can
actually use that When you're reaching
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out like 10, 20 people there because
that information is relevant to
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everyone within that company. Um that's
probably what I do. If you can't get
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any information at a personal level,
look at the information that you can
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get a company level. Hi dan Sanchez
here with a quick break from this
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guide. Yeah, that actually came up in
our conversation as well. Mikey that
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going one level higher. If you can't
find anything personal, find something
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around their company. I think that's a
really good thought there. Um I want to
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go ahead and uh and open up the room
for anybody in the audience that has
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questions for Mikey. We're talking
about unconventional sales and
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marketing tactics. Mikey is the ceo of
growth Jeannie. If anybody has any
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questions, comments, thoughts, ideas
around you know what, maybe what? Maybe
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it's not a question, but something that
you found that's been working for you,
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going ahead and raise your hand, will
bring you up on stage and uh and we'll
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talk through it with Mikey. So Mikey,
my next question for you would be
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around you, you had mentioned like Sin
does so and some other platforms. We
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use craft um for our custom gifting.
What have you found that works really
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well when it comes to gifting? Yeah,
this is this is a kind of hot question
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we're actually looking at internally at
the moment because I've only used
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gifting and like even he gifts more
from like a closing perspective or like
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with warmer leads in the past, like as
an a or even like customer success,
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it's it's worked really well. What
we've typically done in those
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situations is obviously because we
already have a relationship with the
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customer is like, say we want to send
to get, This actually happened in the
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last company I worked for wanting to
send a gift to like the CMO. But then
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we're also working with the head of
business development, you just ask the
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head of business development, like what
do they like, what are their interests,
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what are your hobbies? Like what can we
send that's going to make them happy?
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So there was one person who actually,
because I knew this person, I knew they
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really like running. We like sending a
Nike gift card at christmas and said,
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hey, you know, buy yourself a new pair
of trainers to like, you can run off
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your christmas dinners in, in january.
And then yes, I think those warmer
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leads is kind of easy. I think for cold
leads were actually kind of new to this
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and we're seeing that it does work well,
but it's new to us and we're trying to
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include things like uh, you know, e
gifts and direct mail touches, even
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like colder leads. And uh I think again
this comes down to like the research
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side of things that you can find
anything on linkedin or twitter or
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wherever it may be on the inside. That
that's good. And I think the more niche
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you can find things actually the better
because that's even more, that's always
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what I say, like when you're doing
research, if you find something that's
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very strange, like the spaghetti hoops
example that I gave earlier, that's a
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really nice thing to do because that's
super unique. So that's one of the
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things I recommend because I've the
opposite of that. I've actually got a
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few people have sent me gifts recently
where a small companies, it wasn't to
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get business because we're actually
like, thank you gifts, which is great
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for like a couple of speaking gigs I've
done. But what they did was send me
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alcohol and like, I actually haven't
really drunk for like a couple of years.
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I don't really drink anymore. And I was
a good example of, again, we're gonna
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send this person a gift, but we're not
going to really put any thought into it.
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Obviously if they message me or ask a
friend, they would have known that, you
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know, I don't really drink whiskey even
though they sent me a bottle of whiskey.
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So you always do like a bit of research
to find what someone likes, rather just
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kind of standing there just for this, I
think about love it. All right, Mikey.
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One of the things that we are, you know,
we've obviously built an entire
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business around this idea, but it is
absolutely, you know, a strategy or
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tactic, whatever you want to call it.
But it's this idea of engaging your
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decision makers at your target accounts
by collaborating with them on a piece
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of content. So we ask a lot of our
ideal buyers to be a guest on our
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podcast to be growth. We also do, you
know, different types of collaborations
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with them so well, do you know, blog
post with them? We will do, I've seen,
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I've seen companies do like awards
where they're collaborating in in a
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little bit different of away. They're
like nominating them for some award and
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those types of content collaboration
I've found to be incredibly effective
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at actually building meaningful
relationships instead of leading with,
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hey, look at my product, look at what I
sell its, Hey, I want to shine my
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spotlight on you. We want to feature
you in some content that we're creating.
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What are your thoughts around that
strategy or that motion? Have you, have
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you seen it effective? Be effective for
anybody that you've worked with? Yeah,
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I mean that's, that's a brilliant
strategy and it's kind of similar to
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what I was saying before. Like we have
a long cadence and often when people
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see, you know, the multiple touch
points we have in cadence. So I always
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waited many touches and I say, well, no,
not, we're not asking for a meeting on
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that first link in the email message,
whatever it is we're saying, hey,
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here's a piece of content that we think
could be valuable for you. And in your
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case is one step further, you're
actually asking them to be on the
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podcast, making them feel important,
giving them exposure to people as well,
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which is great. And that are the last
company I used to work for before I
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started growth Jeannie. We actually did
that, we were very outbound focus. So
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I'd say like 90% of our pipeline was
coming from out bounding like 10%
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inbound. But even though our podcast,
not many people listen to it, we
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actually got quite a lot of customers
out of it because we would invite
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people that fitted are ideal customer
profiles and then after having a
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conversation with them, you get to know
them and they're like, hey actually we
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could use your services say 100% agree
with that strategy. Yeah, there's a lot
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of, I think you can, you can go down a
bad path with that. If you're clearly
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just using the podcast interview as a
veiled discovery call, you have to go
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into it actually wanting to create
really great content and by featuring
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your ideal customer and asking them
about their expertise and how they've
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overcome challenges. It's naturally
going to be good content for other
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people that are in their shoes. So in
our case by talking to be piece of
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marketing naturally, we're creating
really great content for VPs of
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marketing because they're hearing from
their peers and we genuinely want to
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create great content with them. The
byproduct is the relationship with them
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and we know that we end up doing a lot
of business with our guests because we
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formed genuine relationships, but if
you're going in, just trying to
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bamboozle them into a meeting, I mean,
nobody, it's just not going to where
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people are going to see right through
it. So you've got to go into it with
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the right mindset, but it's good to
know that you've seen incredible
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results from that as well. We brought
up Justin jeffers Justin it looks like
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from your clubhouse profile that That
you're in animation and you do some
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stuff with three D. Which sounds super
interesting. But what is your question
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or comment? Hey, thanks for inviting me
up on the stage. Yeah, I have a
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question. I'd like to turn in a little
bit because I'm actually trying to
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reach out to marketing marketers and
marketing firms because we partner with
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them to help them create more robust
video animations, two D. And three D.
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And so what I want to ask is I'm
reaching out by email via phone. The
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phone calls oftentimes No one in the
office, so no one's answering or
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someone's there who's not a decision
maker and they can't read, you know,
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whatever emails go unseen or trashed
and I'm working on that. By the way. I
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see dale. The Prius here. Hi dale. Big
inspiration man. Anyway, how can I
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unconventionally reach out to marketing
teams and marketers? They're probably,
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you know, I don't know what's a game,
what's something that I can do to
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really get their attention? So my first
thought Justin and mike I'm sure has
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some thoughts here too. But my first
thought is because what you're doing is
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just really freaking cool. You're doing
three D. Renderings of things. My
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question would be, could you, could you
somehow do some sort of three D. Render
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that you could tweak to where it's
accustomed to the person that you're
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sending it to. You don't need to create
a whole new thing for every person that
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you reach out to. But have you tried
that at all? I have inquired about that
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a little bit. The problem is that I'm
not really the animator, I'm just the
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connection point between someone and
our studio. My role is account
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executive and I'm really doing a lot of
different whatever sales roll, funk,
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whatever title you want to give me. But
that's the difficult part. And I've
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gotten that feedback before a little
bit. Um, you know, create something and
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give it to them for free. Like an
animated logo would be one thing and
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I'm working on that with the studio to
try to help them. We're working on some
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support, basically support media for me
and and the rest of our sales team.
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Mikey. What are your thoughts? Yeah, I
actually agree with with you James
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because I, I imagine it takes quite a
lot of effort to make those little
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videos. Maybe it could even be like a
five second video, 12th video wherever
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it is. So it's not a lot of work for
your animation team. And then another
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thing I would say as well as rather
than giving it to them, this is
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something that we've kind of learned
over the past couple of years is when
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you're giving away a piece of content,
actually don't send it to them straight
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away, like create curiosity about it
and say we've got a piece of content. I
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thought it could be interesting because
you're a marketer and you're going to
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be facing X, Y and Z. Content creation
challenges for videos. I don't know
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your industries, you'll know your
customer pains a lot better than us.
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Would you be interested in us sending a
five minute teaser video? Like what
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that would look like? And then the
reason that works well is they have to
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reply to get it. So you're starting a
conversation with them. It's rather
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just like giving them the content like
create some kind of curiosity around
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that. Um and that's something that's
been working really well for us and our
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customers. Okay, great. Thank you so
much. Awesome. Justin do we have your
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permission to share your voice on the
recording of this for our podcast? Yes,
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awesome. Thank you. Mikey. Is there
anything else related to unconventional
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sales and marketing tactics that you'd
like to share before we shut this one
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down today? Yeah. Something I realized
I didn't talk about earlier in terms of
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mediums was SMS and WhatsApp. I
mentioned it briefly, but it wasn't in
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my top three. I think I said video,
audio notes And um direct man and e
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gifting. So to give you like a start, I
think the average open rate for a cold
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email is 20 versus 19 for for an sms.
And I think there's a lot of hang ups
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around SmS because people say it's very
personal and you know, you shouldn't be
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using it for business means, but it's
the same as anything else. If you're
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messaging is super relevant to the
person you're reaching out to, then why
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can't you use it? And if anything, it's
it's actually better that people aren't
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using it because you can break through
the noise. People aren't receiving 100
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business smS is a day. They are
receiving 100 business emails, so you
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don't write off SmS and what's that?
Just again, like anything just create
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very targeted messaging. Yeah, I had
somebody I actually had an SDR reach
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out to me, I guess it was a couple
weeks ago and it was it was such a
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personalized message. She even used my
wife's name because I used my wife's
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name, and some of my some of my social
media profiles, and so she incorporated
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my faith and like a lot of different
things into the text message and ended
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up making me want to reach out and
tried to hire her On our test team. Uh,
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so I think that there's huge
opportunity there, but you cannot take
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a spamming approach to it if you're
sending the same type of message via
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text that you're sending. Uh a lot of
the messages that I'm sure you see to
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Mikey that I definitely see on linkedin
that just looked like it was sent to
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10,000 people. You're going to piss off
a lot of people real quick. So
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definitely don't do that and take my
keys advice of making sure that it's
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accustomed to them. But I absolutely
believe in s a message of channel Mikey.
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If there's anybody listening live that
wants to stay connected with you or or
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00:26:11.890 --> 00:26:14.110
they're listening on the podcast and I
want to stay connected with you, what's
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00:26:14.110 --> 00:26:18.800
the best way for them to do that? Yeah,
sure. So follow me on, on linkedin, if
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you just type in Michael Hanson growth
Jeannie there by profile should come up.
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Welcome to email me as well. It's M
Hanson at growth genie dot co, I
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00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:32.140
couldn't get the dot com domain, so
it's dot unfortunately. Yeah, those are
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probably the two best channels and I'm
always happy to help anyone whether
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you're an SDR VPs, L was found or
whatever it is. I'm get out wonderful,
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00:26:40.290 --> 00:26:43.300
awesome Mikey. Well, thank you so much
for your time today, Justin, thanks for
375
00:26:43.300 --> 00:26:48.460
jumping up on stage and asking a
question again, if you're listening to
376
00:26:48.460 --> 00:26:52.100
B B growth on, you know, some sort of a
podcast platform and you're not already
377
00:26:52.100 --> 00:26:57.270
following dan or myself on clubhouse,
do that at dan Chevez or at James.
378
00:26:57.270 --> 00:27:01.820
Carberry can also follow the B two B
Growth club on clubhouse. We're doing
379
00:27:01.820 --> 00:27:07.370
these monday to friday from 12 to 12,
30 Eastern time and we're going to be
380
00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:10.650
probably continuing to do them through
april. We were originally just testing
381
00:27:10.650 --> 00:27:15.260
it to see if we can make the marketing
at noon room work through March, but
382
00:27:15.270 --> 00:27:18.090
it's going really well. We're having a
lot of fun with it and so we're going
383
00:27:18.090 --> 00:27:21.630
to continue doing it through april. But
thank you all so much for being here.
384
00:27:21.630 --> 00:27:24.060
Thank you. Might be, this has been
incredible. Also
385
00:27:26.140 --> 00:27:30.830
is your buyer at VtB marketer. If so,
you should think about sponsoring this
386
00:27:30.830 --> 00:27:35.640
Podcast. BTB growth gets downloaded
over one 130,000 times each month and
387
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:39.310
our listeners are marketing decision
makers. If it sounds interesting, send
388
00:27:39.310 --> 00:27:42.360
Logan and email Logan at sweet Fish
Media dot com.