Transcript
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Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B Growth.
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Welcome back to the journey here on
B two B Growth where we're documenting our
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journey of turning this show into every
BDB marketers favorite show and how you can
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do the same. So today we
are talking about using paid media to grow
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your owned media, and this is
something we have recently unlocked with B TWOB
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growth. If you've been listening to
the show for a while, you you
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heard Hiss mentioned a few weeks ago
we became the number one marketing podcast in
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the US because we started doing paid
acquisition. Dan talk to us a little
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bit about about what we've been doing
here. We've been using programmatic ads to
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the hyper target people on iPhone devices
and sending them straight to Apple, the
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Apple podcast app. What the call
to action to follow us on Apple podcasts,
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and we can drive them now in
such a way where we know we
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can like essentially guarantee a short amount
of followers, and of course you get
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some followers and people some percentage of
them unsubscribed, like almost immediately because they
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subscribe, listen to an episode or
two and then they're like it's not for
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me, and they back out,
but it's still like a fantastic way to
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grow the show is not only is
a generate more followers, but it generates
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downloads. And then the benefit of
generating a lot of followers and downloads in
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a very short amount of time is
it boost you up in the rankings like
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no other apps Like I've never seen
a boost in the rankings like this from
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just driving the types of behaviors that
Apple wants to see to drive you up
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at the rankings. But I think
the lasting impact of the seeing the increased
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downloads well after the campaign, see
the lift of like more downloads for our
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show is so good that I'm like, oh my gosh, why have we
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not been doing this for a long
time. I'm like, even, I'm
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thinking of my past experiences in different
companies now and I'm like, oh,
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I wish I like if I could
go back and tell past self, Hey,
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past self, set aside ten to
fiftent of your budget just to grow
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an audience, newsletter, YouTube,
channel, podcast doesn't matter. Spend ten
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to fift of your budget because that
becomes a growing asset that then makes you
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less dependent on that paid media.
Because I remember I was dependent on paid
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media almost alone to grow my past
companies. We were good at paid media.
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We understood Facebook ads, we understood
Google ads, YouTube ads. We
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worked it and it was great,
but it was always we always needed more,
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right because as soon as you hit
your targets, well, they they
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expectations change and you're just like,
dang, well and I need more budget.
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And then of course you start losing
efficiencies at some point, right.
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But I wish I would have just
started, even from the very beginning,
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just setting aside ten to fift of
the budgets that I became slowly over time
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less and less dependent on paid media
to hit my my my targets yeah um,
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and have my own owned audience that
I can have for a long time
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prevent I was making good content for
them. A lot of the questions I've
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obviously been an evangelist about this kind
of programmatic advertising approach with you know,
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folks that are that are close to
me, and and I was talking with
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a buddy of mine about it,
who just did it for his company,
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and we were talking about at lunch, and and some of the one of
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the big questions that I get is
like does the audience stick? Because it's
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easy to think like, okay,
like you're you're doing this, it feels
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a little hacky. Are you just
having like a farm of people overseas somewhere
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like tap, you know, smash
subscribe and then they're unsubscribing or maybe they're
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just staying subscribe that they're not really
downloading any episodes. That has not been
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our experience with with PDP growth.
One. That the targeting, it's really
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specific targeting for the programmatic ad.
By so you're targeting people that have an
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interest of you know, account based
marketing content or content B TWOB decision makers.
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Right, you can narrow it down
that far. BOB marketing decision makers
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is a category you can target and
programmatic ads B two B growth will be
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right back B two B decision makers. Right, you can narrow it down
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that far. BB marketing decision makers
as a category you can target and programmatic
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ads yea, and so so by
by focusing your programmatic ads on that and
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then the call that action just being
hey follow this show. Obviously a programmatic
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ad to say hey, follow this
show, check out this podcast. It's
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going to be far more effective than
hey, buy my hundred thousand dollar products,
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so much better and so so it
makes sense that it converts, and
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then it's going directly to Apple podcasts, and you're only we're only running these
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ads to people that have iOS devices, so Apple podcast comes on the iPhone.
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So there's a lot of layers to
this that make it work. One
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thing you know that we were talking
through because we're talking to a prospective client
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and this audience growth piece came up
and and as you and I were talking
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yesterday, there is a bit of
a downside to this that that you figured
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out, Like between you know,
we're maintaining right now from the last campaign
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we ran. We've still got eighty
percent, so and I don't know,
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it's been about a month and of
the new followers that we grew are still
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with us. Can you walk us
through a little bit though, Like because
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you did a lot of math in
the spreadsheet yesterday and I was like,
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oh man, I'm glad dance on
this team because I would have never done
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this. But you figured out that, Okay, there clums a point where
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paid can only get you so far. Can you talk a little bit about
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that. Paid is fun because of
how flexible it is and how you can
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target and test and do different things. But Eventually you are going to run
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into diminishing returns and building an audience
with paid especially if it's fairly static.
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The results you get like we're programmatic
ads. We know we can acquire Apple
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Podcasts follower for five dollars five dollars
a follower. That's great. The problem
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is over time you just see less
returns on that growth. In the beginning,
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it's fantastic, especially if you're starting
from zero, right you you get
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all these new followers, you have
all these new downloads. But every single
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month you do this, the percentage
of growth is different. It's not exponential.
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It's a static amount of growth.
And so let's say eight hundred people
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stick you got a thousand, eight
hundred of them stay around, okay,
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and then of course there's going to
be churned working against you because naturally they
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hundred that stick around aren't going to
stick around forever it's a percent of them,
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or you're gonna lose every single month
turn. It's going to happen eventually
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if you drag this out far enough, like at first, what becomes a
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like the next month will be like
a growth. I did the math and
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Excelsion dragged it on for multiple months, Like towards the end of after a
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year, you end up with like
a each month is only netting you like
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three two percent growth, and then
it becomes less and less and less because
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it's a static amount that you're adding
and turns working against you at some point,
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so you end up with these like
interesting plateaus and growth. But dang,
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Like at the end of one year
of average just to programmatic ads,
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if you're dropping five grand a month, you end up with like thirty seven
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thousand downloads a month, which is
so much more than any most almost every
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BDB podcast out there. Like if
we were doing this for our customers already,
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which is why we're talking to our
customers about this now, like they
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would be at such a different place
because that's that's a lot of that's a
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lot of influence for one podcast,
and it's just paying your way to get
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there. Of course, there's that
plateau, but at that point you hopefully
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have kick started enough and we're starting
to figure out now, like what are
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some organic ways you can introduce early
on so that that plateau doesn't happen.
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You can start the leverage the organic
results of getting this attention, and provided
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you're making good content that they stick. Right, how else can we leverage
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other platforms other than paid in order
to keep that growth going instead of hitting
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the plateau? And of course we
all know this, like if you've done
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performance ad, you know there's always
a plateau, even in the customer acquisition,
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there's always a plateau and how far
one channel can go right unless you
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hit like an early wave of something
like TikTok when it first started, or
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when BuzzFeed figured out how to really
hack shares, right, and they had
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these like really crazy curves as far
as how far there their blog posts would
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go. Even that was short lived
because shares became less powerful on social media
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over time, right, and now
they had to figure out something else,
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and they're not nearly as big as
they used to be BuzzFeed, But there's
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always these these opportunities to do these
things. Um and I think paid is
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just way undervalued for growing a media
property only because the click through rates are
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two to three times as good because
you're not asking them for a big ask,
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you're asking for a very small ask. Subscribe to the check out this
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newsletter, check out this blog post, check out this podcast, Subscribe to
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ask is much a much easier thing, and for these big like decision makers,
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like, yes, you didn't get
them to jump on a demo,
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but now you have their ear right
and you can acquire them for three times
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lass on your own media than just
getting them to go the demo, and
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you can actually build trust and affinity
so that when you do throw maybe our
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right hook, and they're, like
Gary V says, you know, for
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your product, you'll probably get a
pretty good percentage of them going over and
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they're probably gonna go through this the
sales pipeline much faster because they trust you.
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Now. I hear Alex are mostly
talking about this, and Gary's kind
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of the same sentiment as Gary.
But but Alex always says, you know,
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the longer your time horizon is for
needing to throw that right hook,
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the more effective the right hook is
going to be. And so when you're
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playing a long game and you're like, hey, we're building a media property
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here, like this is something that
in ten years is going to be worth
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tens of millions of dollars and we're
going to own it. When you're playing
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that game and you're not constrained or
handcuffed to short term revenue targets, man
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the leverage that you can create for
your business. I mean, it just
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it gets pretty wild to think about. But a lot of people don't don't
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have that. And for you know, if if you're a VP of marketing
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and you're sitting under leadership that is
pressing you on these, you know,
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short term revenue targets, you might
not have the luxury to do what we're
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doing with GDP growth. You might
have to do more, you know,
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really lean on heavy performance marketing knowing
that it's going to come to an end,
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just like this type of stuff comes
to the event eventually, it doesn't
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move the needle in nearly as much. But you know, that's what I'm
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so excited about in our situation,
is really getting to play the long game
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with this and unlocking this channel of
programmatic Sure it might only move the needle
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for us in a significant way for
the next twelve months, but it's not
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something that we have been doing before, and so I want to capture that
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attention through that channel while we still
can, and hopefully do it for our
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clients as well. So, Dan, this has been, as always,
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fantastic conversation, and so that's that's
gonna be it. We're wrapping up for
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today's episode of the journey. Remember
there are a lot of ways to win.
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Commodity content is the enemy. Focus
on affinity over or awareness. You
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can find all things top growth at
BB Growth show dot com and connect with
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each of us over on LinkedIn.
Dan Sanchez, I'm James Carberry. We're
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out B two B Growth is brought
to you by the team at sweet Fish
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Media. Here at sweet Fish we
produced podcasts for some of the most innovative
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brands in the world, and we
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LinkedIn content, blog posts, and
more. We're on a mission to
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produce every leader's favorite show. Want
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