Transcript
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Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be to be growth.
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Hello and welcome into be to be
growth. Today I'm joined by Jordan Decker.
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He's the vice president of demand generation
at patient pop. Jordan, thanks
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for being on the show, thanks
for having me. So I asked you
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a question, Jordan, offline,
about what you do if I gave you
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a limitless budget in your marketing right
now and you said that you would hire
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a small army to iterate on email
campaigns and design. And so here's my
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first question for you. What do
you believe we are under utilizing in our
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email marketing when it comes to the
the be tob space right now? I
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mean it's testing, it's creative and
copy every step of the way. We
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get in this really bad habit sometimes
with email because it I feel like,
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compared to other demand gen channels,
emails usually a lighter lift compared to I
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have to go build display ads,
I have to go do a video campaign
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on Youtube. We tend to think
so shortsighted in terms of email or we
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don't have enough time to work on
it, where we just go with the
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last temple that worked, go with
the last language Tome that worked and just
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run with it. In my dream
world I have like a little army of
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copywriters and creative and man Gen experts
who are just saying there thinking, okay,
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for every single email we do,
what is the test were running?
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What are we going to go try
to do out of this, if whether
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it's imagery or layout or like hml
versus plaintext, and what is the tone
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and what is the language like?
I just want to have a little like
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vice framework, AB testing army working
on it, because it's such it always
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has such untap potential and it's such
a great channel for conversation where you're not
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limited by character limit or minutes of
video. You can phrase it the way
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you want to, you can present
it the way you want to. So
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I would just test the hell out
of everything. Two seven sounds fun and
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time consuming. So you would definitely
need the small army. So I love
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the way that you phrase that because
you're thinking about this. Maybe it would
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be helpful to just give some context
to your current marketing role and what makes
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you think about this, like give
a sort of your day to day so
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I oversee all functions of demand generation
and the way that works within the patient
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pop org is that I oversee everything
that has to do with marketing operations and
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technology, all of our digital marketing, so paid search, paid Social Seo,
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all of our programmatic channels, content
marketing. My oversee our demand gen
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programs around email and Webinar and direct
mail, and I also oversee all of
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our customer marketing and our partner marketing. So basically, anything that's driving new
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business or helping to drive retention and
upsell or cross cell falls within me and
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my team from the marketing side,
which then explains why email becomes very compelling
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to you. Right. Yes,
email is specially coming from a company that
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focuses on the healthcare space and specifically
really focusing on those providers who sit within
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that private practice independent practice space.
There's not a lot of data out there
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that I get to go mind.
Like, as much as I would love
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to sit there pulling six sense lists
all day, every day, that's not
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a real option for US based off
of the quality of the data that we
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can get and how it fits within
our target market, where we do have
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a lot of stuff as our own
first party database that we've built an email
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and we know who those people are, we know what their specialty is what
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their area focus is. We have
their consent to email and we can really
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leverage that in a way that we
don't have to be worried about. You
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know, what is IOS privacy doing
to facebook advertising and how is that impacting
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our reach? And is there more
competition on paid search and there was before?
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Like emails our channel, we have
it. We see really good engagement
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off of it. HMM. Okay. So, because you're thinking about this
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a lot, what do you think
when it comes to be to be email
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campaigns specifically, like if I gave
Jordan decker a billboard to tell the world
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of be to be what to stop
doing, what would you tell people they
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should stop? So I'm torn.
My first thing, this is a pet
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pee of me and my senior leaders
on my team have a slack channel.
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We just share the bad emails we
get sent by people trying to prospect us.
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So if you've sent me one before, I'm there wasn't good. I
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probably have mocked it with the people
who reports me. Sorry, you're on
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a walla shame somewhere. I'm sure
I am. But one of my biggest
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pet peeves is when people are clearly
doing a one too many and trying to
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make it seem like it's one to
one, when it's painfully not. Obviously
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you know, especially if you're like
an st are doing cold outreach like that.
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One too many cadence in your sequence
tool was obvious really helpful, but
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that lack of personalization, or just
like a kind of half to attempt to
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do real, deep personalization, is
always so obvious. If you want my
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attention, you have to have a
really good sense of how to reach me
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and how to connect with me.
The other thing is stop sending me all
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of your emails first thing in the
morning, like I live by starting my
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day by purging my inbox, especially
since I'm west coast, I know everyone
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on the East Coast at getting my
inbox and if you're hitting me, if
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you're just like I'm, automatically send
this out first in the morning every time.
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Chances are if I don't recognize your
name or your subdaylines, really not,
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really good. I've deleted you,
like before I've gotten out of bed,
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while I'm like treatic my inbox with
one eye still closed. Same like
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it's that big purge every I did
a flow linkedin post on this recently,
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where it's like, if you really
want to stand out, like think about
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timing and like think about when in
my day I might actually have time to
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like catch your email. You don't
know if I'm be going a boring call
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and I'm actually really paying more attention
to my inbox because I'm trying to be
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distracted while trying to focus at the
same time. But yeah, first in
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the morning. Don't bother. I'm
not doing very good at one thing on
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a billboard. I think on that
one too. I just even switching up
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your times. But when you were
saying the the one too many, the
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half attempt is what bugs me.
It's so bad. I don't care if
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you send out if you send out
a mass email, hi, almost if
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it's done well, I don't mind. At least I know what I know.
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The context right, you're getting the
message out to a bunch of people.
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But I receive emails where the first
line is it because I'm in podcast
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world Jordan. I'll just give you
a podcast specific example. They will take
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it feels like they went to the
last episode of be to be growth.
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They just scrolled over to like halfway
through whatever. They heard the guest mention.
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You know, the very first sentence
they said they like wrote it down
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real quick in an email and the
rest of it is copied and pasted.
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It's the same for everybody and they're
just pitching a guest of me and I'm
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like, Whoa, this is not
personalized. This actually almost makes me feel
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worse, like I don't know,
what's an example from your world, it's
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just spam. My number one tell
for someone. I don't want to give
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us away because if someone's listening this
and trying to get ahold of me,
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they're going to catch this now.
But my number one twel is that they
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are doing kind of dynamic token copy. If they list patient pop as patient
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Pop Inc, because they've clearly pulled
it off a Linkedin, because I think
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on Linkedin were listed as patient pop
ink, at least in certain places.
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I forget, or I just exist
in their crm somewhere that way. But
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like the ink part of my company
name, like under no circumstances that ever
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used in common conversation or an email. Yeah, so those little things that
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I can I can spot. The
other thing that I get a lot as
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someone who it's not only emails I
get, because we've had people leave the
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company in the past where, like
I get their old emails forwarded to me.
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People just don't do any form of
research to make sure, like is
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this your current job title? Are
you still at this company? Like I
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get my old boss as emails all
the time and it's like hey, jared,
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now's a great time to talk about
was having patient Bop, my dude
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don't work here no more, like
and his linkedin makes it very clear.
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So you're kind of lazy prospecting if
you're not at least going to look up
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the information on the person you're trying
to reach out to. Like, come
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on, there's right ways and wrong
ways to use tokenization and email. For
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sure, we could probably do a
whole episode just on that, but we
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won't. Absolutely will scare you.
So what exactly do you when you think
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of email design? Tell me what
you what you consider, what comes to
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mind when I use that phrasing,
email design in a weird way for me,
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like I think a lot of people
use the word design and immediately think
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of visuals. When it comes to
designing an email, tone and language is
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actually what I think of first.
There's great resources out of the kind of
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show how to diversify your tone and
language and writing, making like things as
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easy as making sure that like not
all your sentences of the same length.
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You're going between full like full length, like eight, nine, ten word
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versus a three word, and really
trying to sound conversational. I had a
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direct report who used to work from
me, where she had come from like
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a financial background, and her copy
red legs someone who came from like a
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financial background, and I used to
tell them like you're writing, like your
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posture is like so stiff and like
etiquette, like I need you to like
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slump a little bit. You need
to sound like a person when you're writing
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this, and I would do stuff
with her. I'm like, read this
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out loud to me and it would
sound awkward. I'm like, okay,
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if this doesn't sound how how you
talk, this isn't written right and we
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have to go back and Redo it. It should sound like. I was
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like, if your aunt's a doctor
and she's running own practice, as this,
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how you'd explain it to her?
Like hang out at your parents house.
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No, go do it again,
like wrong language. But then also,
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like the actual design of your email
is so important too, and I
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think be to be, especially if
you're doing like html design, like newsletter,
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white paper, content download kind of
emails. We have a tendency to
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not have the most esthetically pleasing looks
and feels. We tend to be a
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little behind the curve on design and
really looking at what you're doing to make
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your email feel like it's well designed
and well polished, especially in a beat
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to be space, because you're trying
to win over business, to show that
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like you can help someone grow their
business. How are you marketing what you're
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doing? How are you making your
look and feel, especially for us,
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because a big part of a patient
pop does is help private practices advertise and
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grow their business. Nine Times out
of time, when we have a successful
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marketing activity, those practices immediately go
back to us and go so how do
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I do this now? So I'm
almost proving what we can do for our
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prospects based off what me and my
team are doing for our own brand on
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a regular basis. So looking cutting
edge, looking like the phrase cutting edge,
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but it's true, looking really modern
design and looking what works well on
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the B to sea side, because
for sure what we see more and more
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is that people are consuming in their
be tob world the same way they consume
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content or material or information and as
a consumer there's no gap anymore and this
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sense of like a betb cell looks
one way in a BTC cell looks another,
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is going away. There's no reason
why I shouldn't be getting an email
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from a brand like six sense that
has a cool look and feel, like
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a might get from like All Saints
when I'm picking out something I want to
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buy to weere. HMM. The
thing that I think of there, and
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I would love to hear your take
on is if all saints sends me an
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email, I'm interested as the consumer
automatically because they know that I've bought from
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them or I've opted into something.
Clearly, on the BB side you opted
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into an email somewhere where you're probably
not just straight up getting spammed all the
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time. I would hope not,
but I think when I get a really
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highly branded be to be email,
we haven't figured out what you brought up
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first, which is the language side, because I see highly branded be to
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be emails that seem very hyper prideful, like they lead with MMM, who
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we are as a company versus why
we're interesting to you, versus all saints
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knows. I looked at this specific
item of clothing and they're popping it up
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on my screen with amazing visuals and
I'm like that's the Holy Grail, I
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must buy now. It's so funny, like even aside from email, the
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concept of retargeting, like if you
talk to your friends who don't work at
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a marketing space, they're like,
Oh God, it's so like it's creepy,
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it's big brother, but all of
us who work in marketing and know
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how the day to work, we're
like no, no, like, prospect
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me better, yeah, give me
better ads, got a card abandonment add
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for me, like give me a
sequence deal, like, I'm ready,
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let's go. But it is true, because a lot of what I see
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brands doing is not always making sure
that the way they talk, on the
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way they present their brand aligns with
the funnel position of the prospect they're going
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after. And you really have to
tie that not only in terms of like
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what you're offering, but how you're
talking to them, because in a pure
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top of funnel prospecting kind of mode, which, to your point, shouldn't
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be happening, realized email, because
you shouldn't be going after all these people
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you don't have consented. You know, but that's again as a whole other
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legal topic podcast right there. You
don't want to be this weird braggy thing,
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but you do also want to present
your brand in a way where it's
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like I'm the one here to solve
your problem. But the court of that
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and and one of our sales leaders
who just be working with us, Kevin
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Dorsey, always talked about is like
getting people to understand and agree about a
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problem before you try to sell,
and I think that applies to marketing as
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well. We have to be focused
on do you agree that you have this
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problem you're trying to solve, that
my solution can come help you with,
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before I just kind of, you
know, full on music man, trombones
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blaring, marching through town kind of
approach. You got to bring people along
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on that journey and if, if
you are just focus on like here's how
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cool my brand is and not here's
how my brand can help you, you're
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coming off, to your point,
as like braggy ego as opposed to like
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you know that I'm here to serve
you as our future hopeful customer. And
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I say braggy in it doesn't even
necessarily come off as that. It just
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comes off as like we don't even
understand what you do. Yeah, the
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number of be to be like,
especially like Sass kind of brands. We
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are like this looks really cool.
The Hell do you do? Like,
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I don't understand your value prop and, and it goes back to that,
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like how do you focus on the
problem your product is solving? Because if
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you can present how you solve a
problem, it doesn't matter how you present
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your I mean doesn't not matter at
all. But, like the brand,
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presentation matters less if you've gotten their
interests. Of Yes, I can help
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you solve this. So we're thinking
about language, we're thinking about the medium,
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because the medium really matters. So
when I open an email, does
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it look like more of a landing
page? Doesn't look like there's a will
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feel to it? How are you
guys testing campaigns and utilizing email at patient
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pop right now? One of the
big things for us, and this was
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kind of an edict I made when
I took over all of demand Jen for
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the business, was nothing should ever
leave the door without testing. There's never
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a time we should be sending an
email where the only goal is conversion.
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Yes, conversion is obviously a goal. If we're promoting our next Webinarre.
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We want to get those registrants because
we know that fuels the funnel and we
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know our sales team is waiting for
those leads. But it also has to
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have a goal of what you can
learn for your brand in terms of subgocline
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performance, in terms of your copy, your tone or your funnel alignment.
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For us, like I try to
think of our emails as almost like a
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mini landing page to what they will
be hitting. Okay, kind of going
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back to that like all saints.
Example, from an e commerce side,
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when you get an email being like
here's the latest trends for this season and
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go check it out and you're looking
at in your email and then you hit
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the ECOMMERCE page to the look at
those products, it feels seamless. It
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looks like your email just went from
email to landing page and you never left.
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That experience I think sometimes be to
be you know, if you are
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hosting a landing page for a white
paper download on your corporate site through your
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wordpress, instance, and then running
an email campaign through Marquetto you may not
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be making those designs feel really locked
step, and we've definitely been guilty of
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that at times because you know,
you get in this mentality of like,
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okay, what has proven success?
Okay, this landing page has proven success
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and this email temp what has proven
success. But do they make sense together?
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Do they actually look like two pieces
of the same campaign, the same
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execution? More doesan just look like, in our case, like you went
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from one green colored thing to another
green color thing and if it wasn't for
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the color in our logo mark you
wouldn't see a connection. It's something we
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have to be really cognizant about as
marketers. That's interesting. I've never really
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stopped to think about that. But
the seamless nature of when I click on
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something, open new window, take
me to a different APP whatever it needs
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to engage the thought process I was
already on. Yeah, and allow me
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to just continue down again. Men
Use the funnel language, but you want
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that that person to start to get
like tunnel vision towards something, and I
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think our direction were like this emails
great, this emails great over here,
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and then someone else built this great
thing over here, and the way that
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those things kind of coincide me maybe
off or missing. And I think the
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especially for someone like me coming from
be to be and specifically in Sass be
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to be. Sometimes our products,
when they are software, are so abstract
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that it's hard to get visuals that
really drive home what it is you're promoting
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when you're talking about how things like
email solutions can drive, in our case,
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patient recall for practices, like you
don't want to just show an inbox.
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That's a weird thing, but then
you don't want to go so lifestyle.
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That's, you know, smiling,
happy person looking at their phone,
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because then it has no meeting whatsoever
and like what's the point of that imagery
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other than to have a person on
it see in the email every day?
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Yeah, yeah, so it's it
can be a struggle, especially and be
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because I like there are times where
I look at BTC market I'm like God,
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that looks so much nicer where it's
like you're selling a physical product,
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like here are these shoes I want
you to buy. It's more styling that.
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There are times when we're looking at
even beyond demandgen looking at our website
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or our product walk through videos of
like okay, how do we represent this
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product? Because our we all agree
that our product is great looking. It
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has great results for our customers.
We know it does, but how do
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we presented in an abstract, non
movement kind of frame, like like email,
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like static email, and and really
get the point across by what we
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can do and how we can help? You mentioned testing. What are some
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of those tests that you've run?
Can give like an example of some of
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the things you're trying? One of
the big errors of focus for us lately
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has been especially with email. Were
interesting because our sales cycle is really short,
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especially when we have deals coming from
inbound like we it's not uncommon for
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us to see someone coming from an
mql state to a new customer in under
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two weeks. So, as someone
has been with a I'm very spoiled.
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I am absolutely spoiled and there are
some people kill for that sale cycle.
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But one of the things that we've
always done with email historically, from when
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I was first starting and I was
running the campaigns myself, is we didn't
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really take a good look at how
we treat email along every step of the
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funnel because the funnel felt so quick
that it was hard to do that.
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And we may not have like every
defined funnel stage that we can align with,
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but there are definite, you know, top, middle bottom, general
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stages that we've been testing. How
do we optimize our offers, our copy,
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our tone, are visuals based on
where they're at the funnel? How
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do we treat someone who is in
our database because maybe they've downloaded a single
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white paper from one of our content
marketing efforts on native or social and get
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them a little further down, versus
someone who maybe saw demo of the product
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six months ago, the timing was
off and now we're trying to re engage
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them? How we can leverage emails
a channel to make sure we're mapping toward
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the prospect is is something that putting
a lot of energy into. One of
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the guys on my team, Brian, has been a big fan of of
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the vice framework, the velocity impact
confidence in these kind of way of looking
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at what we're testing, because one
of the things we become guilty of is,
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you know, we spend so much
time not having the bandwidth the test
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that we kind of carved out time
for ourselves where it's like, okay,
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brainstorm, blue sky session. What's
everything we would test if we could?
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And all of a sudden you have
this amazing list of things you want to
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test and you're like, I have
no idea where it start so overwhelm rings
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of a really good job. Yeah, it's overwhelming because you're like, we're
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how do I pick? Do I
pick the one that people were the most
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passionate about? And applying that vice
framework actually is nice because it gives a
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numeracle score to what everything we want
to test is and you can kind of
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see which ones across. How quickly
can we do it? What impact are
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we expecting? How confident are we
in the results? How easy it is
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for us to implement it? That
kind of allows us to triage things automatically
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and really prioritize what we're testing.
Funnel position has been a big thing for
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us and it's probably in our biggest
testing focus because it is that like what
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is the offer? What is the
tone? What is the look? We've
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also been doing a lot of testing
around email, around what we've been referring
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to internally as email affinity groups,
where we look at people who came in
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from our top of funnel campaigns and
try to group what not necessarily buy.
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What what up part of our product
they're interested in, but what problem they're
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trying to solve? Are they trying
to really like figure out how to market
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a practice? Are they figure out
how to really drive a better control of
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their their online reputation? Are they're
really look at just bringing New People in
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the door and and keeping those patients
coming back time after time and looking how
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we segment our audience instead of looking
at it based off of, you know,
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what their medical specialty is or how
large of a practice they're at,
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trying to segment them based off of
their kind of self identified problem statements.
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So we've been doing kind of drip
campaign is based off of those affinity groups
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and seeing some really cool success from
it. How many segments, Jordan?
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How many of those kind of little
groups have you tried to go after?
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I think there's three or four that
we have where we kind of treat it
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as whenever we launch a new content
piece or run a new campaign, we
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try to associate it with one of
I think we have about three main ones.
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And then I think okay, forth, where it's just kind of the
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this is a new topic that like
maybe we just put out a super seasonal,
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very like current topic kind of piece
that doesn't necessarily fall somewhere else.
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We need kind of a general what
we refer to as like our practice growth
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kind of affinity group and figuring out
how do we push them into another affinity
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group from there if we didn't get
their full interest point. But I think
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it's around three or four that we
focus on right now to make sure we
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get it right like that. Go
back with me real quick for those that
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would have been unfamiliar with the vice
framework and just resay that so that we
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have a second time to think through
what you what it is. So the
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vice framework, I want to give
all credit to Brian clevisy on my team,
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kind of brought this to us as
a way to start measuring all of
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our AB testing. But vice is
an acronym for Velocity, impact, confidence
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and ease, which basically allows you
to look at everything you're testing and figure
347
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out for any test you want to
run, you have to kind of give
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it a score based off all of
those criteria and based off of that,
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you kind of have a hide a
lower. You can figure out, okay,
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this is something that we can do
very quickly. We think it has
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high impact. We're really confident that
we that it's gonna drive some sort of
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so we're going to get some sort
of results and it doesn't take us a
353
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lot of heavy looking to get it
done. That's a win, whereas other
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things where it's like, Oh,
you know, this would have a lot
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of impact and really confident, but
we can't do it quickly and it's not
356
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going to be easy. Maybe we
don't prioritize this right now. But we
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start talking to marketing up so we
start talking to our dever resources and figure
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out how we start spinning up in
the background as we get closer to it.
359
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It's really like that triaging tool for
us around all of these AV tests,
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velocity, impact, confidence, EA's. That is a good reminder.
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I like that one. Thank you
for sharing that with us. Okay,
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so you're telling us that the testing
that you're doing super valuable. That sort
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of falls in the things you're actually
doing right now. I wonder, moving
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and maybe looking out into the future, what are you trying to maybe the
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next thing you're interested in? What
are you actively hoping to improve moving forward
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that maybe you're not testing yet?
I want to go nuts on personalization.
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We're a MARQUETTO customer and there's it's
one of those tools where, I know
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there's so many things that we're not
we're not using it for everything we could,
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whether it's because of time or resources, but we have a very robust
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in how crm database of people that
we know are in our target market that
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we want to go after, and
I think there's still a lot of work
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we can do to kind of really
boost in those email formats that are clearly
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one too many, like a newsletter. How do we really elevate and step
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up our game around what we're doing
around personalization? How can we change?
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You know, for us, for
example, we do use a lot of
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like kind of healthcare medical lifestyle imagery. Can we do things to make sure
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that the imagery were showing is different
if we're if the person opening that email
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is an obi guine or a dentist
or a pediatrist or an orthopedic surgeon.
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And Yeah, what do we want
to change about that? One thing that
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we were looking at doing, and
then pause thanks to Covid is when we
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have our presence at trade shows,
can we leverage their zip code information to
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show extra modules that we're going to
be at an upcoming trade shown that they
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can set up time to stop by
our booth and have that intelligently show where,
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you know, if the shows in
San Francisco, we don't need to
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show that to someone who's going to
email Miami necessarily, but if we know
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you're in the Greater Bay area,
can we do that really smart personalization in
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the vice kind of world. For
us, unfortunately, that's not exactly in
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the ease category, so it hasn't
been prioritized, but it's something we're really
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eager to do and to do more
with. HMM, good too. Things
390
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are okay. So let's talk about
what tools apps because I want to go
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practical here as we start to wrap
up on the house and how you're executing
392
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the stuff that you guys are doing. What tools and APPs of you use
393
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that you feel like are really helping
your email campaigns? Right now, one
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that's become really popular with my team
and we've all become big advocates for his
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path factory. And if you're not
familiar with path factory, it's this really
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cool content engagement system that allows you
to try to make content more bingeable.
397
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I remember when I was on sales
pictures with them originally, when we were
398
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looking for a solution. They kind
of position themselves as like we kind of
399
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want to be the Netflix of be
to be content, where Netflix kind of
400
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will give you the suggestions of like, go watch this next. Yeah,
401
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because one of the things we knew, and we would see this through our
402
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own crm tracking and our marketing tracking, is that we would see all of
403
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these these one deals we got where
someone was downloading a white paper a month
404
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from us, like every month for
a year, and after all that we
405
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finally got the win off of it. We finally gotten that position for them
406
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and it kind of open to this
question for us of how do we kind
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of accelerate that process where we can
put more content in front of you right
408
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away? And what's cool about path
factory is they have these content paths where
409
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.759
you can load up basically a playlist
of content across a lot of different media
410
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:15.920
forms and just have them all in
one playlist. So you can put a
411
00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:19.160
pdfile in there, you can put
video content, like we have our whisty
412
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.839
of videos living in there. You
can even embed individual like web pages,
413
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.480
so like if there's a page that
lives on your site, you can pull
414
00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:30.640
it straight in and it all lives
in one contained space where you have analytics,
415
00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:34.599
you have known versus unknown visitors.
It integrates with our Marqutto instance,
416
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.119
so the data gets passed back and
forth. We can see what the last
417
00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:40.839
asset they were reading on. And
what I really like them is that they
418
00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:44.200
have kind of intelligent dating systems.
All of us is be to be markers.
419
00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:45.480
Are Constantly having that fight of like
do I gate it? Do I
420
00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:48.720
unate it? Does everyone have access
to it? Like are there certain things
421
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:52.599
as a depend and what we liked
about about path factory is the fact that
422
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:59.319
we could use intelligent gates and determine
when and how we want to show that
423
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:04.119
wall. So if someone was looking
at our content for multiple minutes, we
424
00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:07.039
could say hey, once they've been
looking at things and actively engage on the
425
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:11.839
page for at least forty five seconds
or exactly two minutes, that's when it
426
00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:15.359
that gate shows up and we get
them to kind of keep going. Or
427
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.319
we could say that, you know, all of these assets in the path
428
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.240
are free to view except for this
one, like high value research piece,
429
00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:25.559
we do need to collect your information
on and it allows us to be a
430
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:27.519
lot smarter and a lot INTU more
intelligent about how we do that. And
431
00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:33.400
their team does regular qbrs with US
around how we're using taxonomy in their system
432
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.400
and what's working and what's not and
figuring out how we can levered it more.
433
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.319
It's been a really popular tool for
the team and, like anything we're
434
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:42.720
working on, we're like, okay, we can, we use path factory
435
00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:45.880
for this. To one of our
executions that we did early on is,
436
00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:48.880
and I feel I see a lot
of people struggling this with with newsletters,
437
00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.240
where you're like here's like the last
five things we published. Well, you
438
00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:56.000
don't want someone to click off on
the first content thing and then have to
439
00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:59.279
go back to their email to find
something else because they can get distracted.
440
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:03.240
The Nice thing is if we would
have like our our February newsletter with five
441
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.880
content pieces, we would load those
full, all five of those content pieces,
442
00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:10.240
into one path and scroll no matter
where you clicked in the email,
443
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:11.720
you hit the one you wanted,
but everything else is right there and you
444
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.759
don't have to go back beforeth Nice. So it's been a really cool,
445
00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:21.000
powerful tool for us and we're constantly
looking for like how else do we leverage
446
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:22.960
it? We're constantly like looking at
what the new product releases are from them
447
00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.200
and seeing if there's something else we
can do. We played with actually building
448
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:30.559
like you can build almost like a
little mini microsite resource set are that like
449
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:34.559
requires no coding work. So obviously, being in healthcare, we had a
450
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.599
lot of content we're putting out at
a very start of covid and trying to
451
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.200
get this information out to our providers
around hey, like here's how tell a
452
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:45.400
health building codes matter to you now
and what you have to do, and
453
00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:48.480
we're able to kind of spin up
a really quick resource hub with a lot
454
00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:52.680
of content one place that normally would
have taken like several Dev cycles and it
455
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.599
was just kind of quick, easy
done. Wow. Well, this episode's
456
00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:00.160
brought to you by path factory.
Still apparently I'm now a brand ambassador and
457
00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:03.519
I didn't realize it, but I
like it. I always love giving away
458
00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:07.640
some of those practical it just it's
interesting to hear what tools are working,
459
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:11.359
it's true. And like and and
we're still looking at directmail has become a
460
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:15.119
big channel for us. It works
really well for us and we're still looking
461
00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:18.480
at how we can better where a
sendoso customer and how we can integrate sendoso
462
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:22.240
into our email campaigns and as we
do those offers that are aligned with funnel
463
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:26.440
position, are there things that we
can do to drive, you know,
464
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.480
those door open earth campaigns, those
deal accelerator campaigns and have that tie into
465
00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:33.319
email. So it's kind of every
execution is all in one touch. So
466
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:37.200
there's there's more we're testing there.
I'm a big fan of the campaigns that
467
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.400
are very like a mix of like
doing the campaigns where it's just a packets
468
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:42.920
and we shows up unexpectedly, versus
like Hey, I want to send you
469
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:47.720
something. Please opt in, because
if you've gotten someone's opt into mailing you
470
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:51.000
something like there's there's obviously much better
avenue for our sales and to have a
471
00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:56.400
conversation. All right, well,
this has been fascinating. Oh, ask
472
00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:00.599
one more question and then, and
I will will get your socials and ways
473
00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:04.519
for people to connect. If you
were going to start from scratch, where
474
00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:08.039
would you begin? And I mean
this in the way of clearly there's a
475
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:11.839
million things you could do in marketing
in general, but let's go email specific.
476
00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:15.920
Maybe there hasn't been a lot of
strategy at a company and they bring
477
00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:21.440
Jordan in and he's going to start
do an email. What are you focusing
478
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:25.400
on? What's important to you?
You're starting from scratch. Go I mean
479
00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:27.880
first and foremost as audience. Like
there's nothing you can do with email market
480
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:32.119
until you really have a hand on
who your audiences. So looking at what
481
00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:34.599
you're existing database is. Do you
have consent? Have you been able to
482
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:37.480
segment them? How much information do
you have in there, and really making
483
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:44.079
sure you have all the information you
need to really build out smart segments without
484
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.160
going so far down the road that
you're like hyper segmenting too early, too
485
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:52.039
fast, but being able to at
least have some sort of like for us
486
00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:53.759
it's in like a healthcare space,
it's can I at least segment them by
487
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:57.240
what medical specialty they are and how
my language will change there. So that
488
00:30:57.319 --> 00:31:00.680
audience data. And if you don't
have it, that's not a reason to
489
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:03.839
panic. There's so many resource out
there you can go to kind of append
490
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.160
and scrub and add more to your
database. After that is text act like
491
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:11.519
you need to have the right tool
that's powerful enough to scale with you,
492
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:14.839
as you know, your programs are
going to scale. It's really easy for
493
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:17.359
us as marketers just be like I
need the cheap and easy one, that
494
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:22.039
I'll just be like my MVP product. But if you implement like a lower
495
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.880
lift, the lower strength email marketing
tool, that gets the job done but
496
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:29.960
doesn't have everything, like all the
bells and whistles you want, and then
497
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:32.920
your team gets used to it.
Now you not only have the debt on
498
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:37.200
your team of having to change over
systems, but having everyone relearned something is
499
00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:41.000
such a pain. Going to lose
some hair in that process. Oh God,
500
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.839
it's it's a nightmare, like whatever
someone's like what like we're going through
501
00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:48.400
a merger right now and we have
two sets of systems on both sides of
502
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:53.359
the family and it's it's a very
intentional discussion around which systems stay. How
503
00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:56.400
do we pick them? And a
lot of it is involved in not only
504
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:00.119
the feature step, but like how
comfortable our team is and what they feel
505
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:01.480
like they can and can't do with
it right. And I guess the last
506
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:06.079
thing is like find your inspiration,
like figure out what your brand wants to
507
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:08.079
look and feel. Like there's so
many resources out there. There's so many
508
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:13.200
blogs around the best of email campaigns, whether you're looking at, you know,
509
00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:15.400
trying to drive adoption, trying to
go after people haven't logged into your
510
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:20.799
platform in a while, news letters, pr whatever that looks like. There's
511
00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:22.839
so many great examples out there.
Like you almost need to have a little
512
00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:28.480
like pinterest mood board kind of moment
for what you like and what works,
513
00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.599
and don't be limited by your vertical
or like your place on the be Tobb
514
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:36.599
Toc spectrum because, like, I'm
always the biggest advocate of this, like,
515
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:38.920
we have to learn from the other
sides of the aisle, especially on
516
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:42.920
the B Tob side. Yeah,
that that inspiration, that mood board,
517
00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:45.839
is so important because as you start
doing things with email, you don't want
518
00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:49.880
to look sloppy. Your brand doesn't
want to look all over the place.
519
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:52.279
You need a little bit of cohesiveness. Even if you are going to be
520
00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:57.000
testing and playing with things, try
not to piss off your creative director in
521
00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:00.839
the process and good luck. But
yeah, good look with that one.
522
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:05.839
Thanks, Jordan, for spending time
with us here. Tell us a little
523
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:08.400
bit more about patient pop and then
where can we connect with you? So
524
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:13.240
patient pop is the leader and practice
growth. Our goal is to help independent
525
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:17.160
private practices really grow and thrive and
drive care for their communities. We do
526
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:22.440
that through helping them with their website, their Seo, their reputation, marketing
527
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:27.119
campaigns, tell a health billing solutions, mobile APPs, everything that healthcare proviators
528
00:33:27.160 --> 00:33:29.680
need. At the end of the
day, we know that these health care
529
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:34.200
proviators provide such an important service to
our community and to our country, especially
530
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:37.000
as we've all been living through covid. But they studied medicine, not marketing.
531
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:40.480
They don't always know what they don't
know. So our goals really help
532
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:45.400
them build a growing, thriving business
and be those leaders that they can rely
533
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.400
on to get the most out of
their business. In terms of getting connected
534
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.000
with me, Linkedin is always the
best channel. I think there's some really
535
00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:55.359
antiquated marketer Jordan twitter account that probably
hasn't been touched in yours. Don't bother,
536
00:33:55.400 --> 00:33:59.440
but linkedin is probably the best channel
to get a hold of me these
537
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:02.960
days. Fantastic. Well, thanks
for being on B Tob Growth. Thanks
538
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:07.880
for sharing your wealth of wisdom on
email marketing with us. We really appreciate
539
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:12.960
it. Thanks so much for having
its been a blast or always having insightful
540
00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:16.039
conversations just like this one here on
be tob growth. I would love to
541
00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:20.079
connect with you. You can connect
with me on Linkedin as well. Just
542
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:22.559
search Benji Block. I'm always sorry
about marketing business and life over there and
543
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:27.599
love having some back and forth.
So feel free to reach out there.
544
00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:30.960
If you haven't subscribed to the show
yet, do that wherever you're listening to
545
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.480
this, and it will be back
real soon with another episode. Keep doing
546
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:50.000
work. The matters BB growth is
brought to you by the team at sweet
547
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:52.239
fish media. Here at sweetfish,
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548
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:57.880
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