March 14, 2022

What's Missing in Your Email Campaign? with Jordan Decker

In this episode Benji talks to Jordan Decker, Vice President of Demand Generation at PatientPop.

B2B email can feel stale and robotic, but Jordan believes email can be exciting and extremely valuable to your companies bottom line. Todays conversation is a tactical dialogue on what's working for PatientPop in their email campaigns right now and how we can level up our next outreach.

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:13.279 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:22.359 Hello and welcome into be to be growth. Today I'm joined by Jordan Decker. 3 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:27.239 He's the vice president of demand generation at patient pop. Jordan, thanks 4 00:00:27.239 --> 00:00:30.760 for being on the show, thanks for having me. So I asked you 5 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:35.520 a question, Jordan, offline, about what you do if I gave you 6 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:41.159 a limitless budget in your marketing right now and you said that you would hire 7 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:47.320 a small army to iterate on email campaigns and design. And so here's my 8 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:52.159 first question for you. What do you believe we are under utilizing in our 9 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:56.280 email marketing when it comes to the the be tob space right now? I 10 00:00:56.359 --> 00:01:00.960 mean it's testing, it's creative and copy every step of the way. We 11 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:06.359 get in this really bad habit sometimes with email because it I feel like, 12 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:10.319 compared to other demand gen channels, emails usually a lighter lift compared to I 13 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:12.159 have to go build display ads, I have to go do a video campaign 14 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:17.599 on Youtube. We tend to think so shortsighted in terms of email or we 15 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:19.599 don't have enough time to work on it, where we just go with the 16 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:23.400 last temple that worked, go with the last language Tome that worked and just 17 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:26.920 run with it. In my dream world I have like a little army of 18 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:32.439 copywriters and creative and man Gen experts who are just saying there thinking, okay, 19 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:34.879 for every single email we do, what is the test were running? 20 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:38.120 What are we going to go try to do out of this, if whether 21 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:42.439 it's imagery or layout or like hml versus plaintext, and what is the tone 22 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:45.200 and what is the language like? I just want to have a little like 23 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:49.920 vice framework, AB testing army working on it, because it's such it always 24 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.840 has such untap potential and it's such a great channel for conversation where you're not 25 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:59.239 limited by character limit or minutes of video. You can phrase it the way 26 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:00.599 you want to, you can present it the way you want to. So 27 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:06.799 I would just test the hell out of everything. Two seven sounds fun and 28 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:09.360 time consuming. So you would definitely need the small army. So I love 29 00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:14.000 the way that you phrase that because you're thinking about this. Maybe it would 30 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:19.840 be helpful to just give some context to your current marketing role and what makes 31 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:23.599 you think about this, like give a sort of your day to day so 32 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:27.680 I oversee all functions of demand generation and the way that works within the patient 33 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:30.199 pop org is that I oversee everything that has to do with marketing operations and 34 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:35.840 technology, all of our digital marketing, so paid search, paid Social Seo, 35 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:38.759 all of our programmatic channels, content marketing. My oversee our demand gen 36 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:44.319 programs around email and Webinar and direct mail, and I also oversee all of 37 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:47.919 our customer marketing and our partner marketing. So basically, anything that's driving new 38 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:53.680 business or helping to drive retention and upsell or cross cell falls within me and 39 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:57.800 my team from the marketing side, which then explains why email becomes very compelling 40 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:01.280 to you. Right. Yes, email is specially coming from a company that 41 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:07.919 focuses on the healthcare space and specifically really focusing on those providers who sit within 42 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:12.199 that private practice independent practice space. There's not a lot of data out there 43 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:14.159 that I get to go mind. Like, as much as I would love 44 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:16.599 to sit there pulling six sense lists all day, every day, that's not 45 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:20.719 a real option for US based off of the quality of the data that we 46 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:23.879 can get and how it fits within our target market, where we do have 47 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:27.240 a lot of stuff as our own first party database that we've built an email 48 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:30.199 and we know who those people are, we know what their specialty is what 49 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:35.719 their area focus is. We have their consent to email and we can really 50 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:38.159 leverage that in a way that we don't have to be worried about. You 51 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:43.719 know, what is IOS privacy doing to facebook advertising and how is that impacting 52 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:46.319 our reach? And is there more competition on paid search and there was before? 53 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:50.680 Like emails our channel, we have it. We see really good engagement 54 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:53.039 off of it. HMM. Okay. So, because you're thinking about this 55 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:58.280 a lot, what do you think when it comes to be to be email 56 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:03.400 campaigns specifically, like if I gave Jordan decker a billboard to tell the world 57 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:09.280 of be to be what to stop doing, what would you tell people they 58 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:12.919 should stop? So I'm torn. My first thing, this is a pet 59 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:15.520 pee of me and my senior leaders on my team have a slack channel. 60 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:18.920 We just share the bad emails we get sent by people trying to prospect us. 61 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:21.319 So if you've sent me one before, I'm there wasn't good. I 62 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:25.600 probably have mocked it with the people who reports me. Sorry, you're on 63 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:29.319 a walla shame somewhere. I'm sure I am. But one of my biggest 64 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:32.000 pet peeves is when people are clearly doing a one too many and trying to 65 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:35.720 make it seem like it's one to one, when it's painfully not. Obviously 66 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:40.240 you know, especially if you're like an st are doing cold outreach like that. 67 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:43.959 One too many cadence in your sequence tool was obvious really helpful, but 68 00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:47.879 that lack of personalization, or just like a kind of half to attempt to 69 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:53.199 do real, deep personalization, is always so obvious. If you want my 70 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:57.240 attention, you have to have a really good sense of how to reach me 71 00:04:57.319 --> 00:05:00.439 and how to connect with me. The other thing is stop sending me all 72 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:03.279 of your emails first thing in the morning, like I live by starting my 73 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:06.399 day by purging my inbox, especially since I'm west coast, I know everyone 74 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:10.519 on the East Coast at getting my inbox and if you're hitting me, if 75 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:14.000 you're just like I'm, automatically send this out first in the morning every time. 76 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:17.360 Chances are if I don't recognize your name or your subdaylines, really not, 77 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:20.720 really good. I've deleted you, like before I've gotten out of bed, 78 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:25.519 while I'm like treatic my inbox with one eye still closed. Same like 79 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:29.160 it's that big purge every I did a flow linkedin post on this recently, 80 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:31.319 where it's like, if you really want to stand out, like think about 81 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:34.399 timing and like think about when in my day I might actually have time to 82 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:38.240 like catch your email. You don't know if I'm be going a boring call 83 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:41.040 and I'm actually really paying more attention to my inbox because I'm trying to be 84 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:44.439 distracted while trying to focus at the same time. But yeah, first in 85 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:46.240 the morning. Don't bother. I'm not doing very good at one thing on 86 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.839 a billboard. I think on that one too. I just even switching up 87 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:54.839 your times. But when you were saying the the one too many, the 88 00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:59.319 half attempt is what bugs me. It's so bad. I don't care if 89 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:01.959 you send out if you send out a mass email, hi, almost if 90 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:06.000 it's done well, I don't mind. At least I know what I know. 91 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:10.519 The context right, you're getting the message out to a bunch of people. 92 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:15.879 But I receive emails where the first line is it because I'm in podcast 93 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.879 world Jordan. I'll just give you a podcast specific example. They will take 94 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:21.759 it feels like they went to the last episode of be to be growth. 95 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:27.959 They just scrolled over to like halfway through whatever. They heard the guest mention. 96 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:30.360 You know, the very first sentence they said they like wrote it down 97 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:33.319 real quick in an email and the rest of it is copied and pasted. 98 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:36.680 It's the same for everybody and they're just pitching a guest of me and I'm 99 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:41.600 like, Whoa, this is not personalized. This actually almost makes me feel 100 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:45.160 worse, like I don't know, what's an example from your world, it's 101 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:48.879 just spam. My number one tell for someone. I don't want to give 102 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:50.839 us away because if someone's listening this and trying to get ahold of me, 103 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:55.240 they're going to catch this now. But my number one twel is that they 104 00:06:55.279 --> 00:07:00.319 are doing kind of dynamic token copy. If they list patient pop as patient 105 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:02.720 Pop Inc, because they've clearly pulled it off a Linkedin, because I think 106 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:05.560 on Linkedin were listed as patient pop ink, at least in certain places. 107 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:09.839 I forget, or I just exist in their crm somewhere that way. But 108 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:14.279 like the ink part of my company name, like under no circumstances that ever 109 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:17.519 used in common conversation or an email. Yeah, so those little things that 110 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:20.120 I can I can spot. The other thing that I get a lot as 111 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:25.079 someone who it's not only emails I get, because we've had people leave the 112 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:27.800 company in the past where, like I get their old emails forwarded to me. 113 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:30.560 People just don't do any form of research to make sure, like is 114 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:34.120 this your current job title? Are you still at this company? Like I 115 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:38.399 get my old boss as emails all the time and it's like hey, jared, 116 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:40.920 now's a great time to talk about was having patient Bop, my dude 117 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:44.639 don't work here no more, like and his linkedin makes it very clear. 118 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:47.959 So you're kind of lazy prospecting if you're not at least going to look up 119 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:51.759 the information on the person you're trying to reach out to. Like, come 120 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:57.360 on, there's right ways and wrong ways to use tokenization and email. For 121 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:01.720 sure, we could probably do a whole episode just on that, but we 122 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:07.759 won't. Absolutely will scare you. So what exactly do you when you think 123 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:13.360 of email design? Tell me what you what you consider, what comes to 124 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:16.800 mind when I use that phrasing, email design in a weird way for me, 125 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:20.240 like I think a lot of people use the word design and immediately think 126 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:22.680 of visuals. When it comes to designing an email, tone and language is 127 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:26.120 actually what I think of first. There's great resources out of the kind of 128 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:31.759 show how to diversify your tone and language and writing, making like things as 129 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:33.600 easy as making sure that like not all your sentences of the same length. 130 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.759 You're going between full like full length, like eight, nine, ten word 131 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.440 versus a three word, and really trying to sound conversational. I had a 132 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:45.559 direct report who used to work from me, where she had come from like 133 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:48.320 a financial background, and her copy red legs someone who came from like a 134 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:52.480 financial background, and I used to tell them like you're writing, like your 135 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:56.399 posture is like so stiff and like etiquette, like I need you to like 136 00:08:56.679 --> 00:08:58.559 slump a little bit. You need to sound like a person when you're writing 137 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.840 this, and I would do stuff with her. I'm like, read this 138 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:03.679 out loud to me and it would sound awkward. I'm like, okay, 139 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:07.840 if this doesn't sound how how you talk, this isn't written right and we 140 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:09.360 have to go back and Redo it. It should sound like. I was 141 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:13.159 like, if your aunt's a doctor and she's running own practice, as this, 142 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.480 how you'd explain it to her? Like hang out at your parents house. 143 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:18.080 No, go do it again, like wrong language. But then also, 144 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:22.919 like the actual design of your email is so important too, and I 145 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:26.399 think be to be, especially if you're doing like html design, like newsletter, 146 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:31.080 white paper, content download kind of emails. We have a tendency to 147 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:35.080 not have the most esthetically pleasing looks and feels. We tend to be a 148 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:41.120 little behind the curve on design and really looking at what you're doing to make 149 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:43.519 your email feel like it's well designed and well polished, especially in a beat 150 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:46.399 to be space, because you're trying to win over business, to show that 151 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:50.279 like you can help someone grow their business. How are you marketing what you're 152 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:54.639 doing? How are you making your look and feel, especially for us, 153 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:58.039 because a big part of a patient pop does is help private practices advertise and 154 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:01.120 grow their business. Nine Times out of time, when we have a successful 155 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:05.559 marketing activity, those practices immediately go back to us and go so how do 156 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:09.240 I do this now? So I'm almost proving what we can do for our 157 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:11.639 prospects based off what me and my team are doing for our own brand on 158 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:16.759 a regular basis. So looking cutting edge, looking like the phrase cutting edge, 159 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:20.399 but it's true, looking really modern design and looking what works well on 160 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:22.519 the B to sea side, because for sure what we see more and more 161 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:28.200 is that people are consuming in their be tob world the same way they consume 162 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:31.759 content or material or information and as a consumer there's no gap anymore and this 163 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:37.320 sense of like a betb cell looks one way in a BTC cell looks another, 164 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:41.080 is going away. There's no reason why I shouldn't be getting an email 165 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:43.799 from a brand like six sense that has a cool look and feel, like 166 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:46.679 a might get from like All Saints when I'm picking out something I want to 167 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:50.919 buy to weere. HMM. The thing that I think of there, and 168 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:54.840 I would love to hear your take on is if all saints sends me an 169 00:10:54.840 --> 00:11:01.240 email, I'm interested as the consumer automatically because they know that I've bought from 170 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:05.200 them or I've opted into something. Clearly, on the BB side you opted 171 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:09.600 into an email somewhere where you're probably not just straight up getting spammed all the 172 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:13.200 time. I would hope not, but I think when I get a really 173 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:18.279 highly branded be to be email, we haven't figured out what you brought up 174 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:22.200 first, which is the language side, because I see highly branded be to 175 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:28.120 be emails that seem very hyper prideful, like they lead with MMM, who 176 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:33.360 we are as a company versus why we're interesting to you, versus all saints 177 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:37.480 knows. I looked at this specific item of clothing and they're popping it up 178 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:41.159 on my screen with amazing visuals and I'm like that's the Holy Grail, I 179 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:46.320 must buy now. It's so funny, like even aside from email, the 180 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:48.639 concept of retargeting, like if you talk to your friends who don't work at 181 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:52.480 a marketing space, they're like, Oh God, it's so like it's creepy, 182 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:54.799 it's big brother, but all of us who work in marketing and know 183 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:56.240 how the day to work, we're like no, no, like, prospect 184 00:11:56.279 --> 00:12:00.240 me better, yeah, give me better ads, got a card abandonment add 185 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.039 for me, like give me a sequence deal, like, I'm ready, 186 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:05.720 let's go. But it is true, because a lot of what I see 187 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:11.039 brands doing is not always making sure that the way they talk, on the 188 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:13.759 way they present their brand aligns with the funnel position of the prospect they're going 189 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:16.639 after. And you really have to tie that not only in terms of like 190 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:20.559 what you're offering, but how you're talking to them, because in a pure 191 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.399 top of funnel prospecting kind of mode, which, to your point, shouldn't 192 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:26.919 be happening, realized email, because you shouldn't be going after all these people 193 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:30.039 you don't have consented. You know, but that's again as a whole other 194 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.759 legal topic podcast right there. You don't want to be this weird braggy thing, 195 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:37.480 but you do also want to present your brand in a way where it's 196 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.000 like I'm the one here to solve your problem. But the court of that 197 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:43.639 and and one of our sales leaders who just be working with us, Kevin 198 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:48.960 Dorsey, always talked about is like getting people to understand and agree about a 199 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.279 problem before you try to sell, and I think that applies to marketing as 200 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:56.159 well. We have to be focused on do you agree that you have this 201 00:12:56.200 --> 00:13:00.639 problem you're trying to solve, that my solution can come help you with, 202 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:03.200 before I just kind of, you know, full on music man, trombones 203 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.399 blaring, marching through town kind of approach. You got to bring people along 204 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:11.559 on that journey and if, if you are just focus on like here's how 205 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:15.559 cool my brand is and not here's how my brand can help you, you're 206 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:18.000 coming off, to your point, as like braggy ego as opposed to like 207 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:24.039 you know that I'm here to serve you as our future hopeful customer. And 208 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:26.960 I say braggy in it doesn't even necessarily come off as that. It just 209 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.440 comes off as like we don't even understand what you do. Yeah, the 210 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:33.480 number of be to be like, especially like Sass kind of brands. We 211 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.559 are like this looks really cool. The Hell do you do? Like, 212 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:41.440 I don't understand your value prop and, and it goes back to that, 213 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:46.320 like how do you focus on the problem your product is solving? Because if 214 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:48.840 you can present how you solve a problem, it doesn't matter how you present 215 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:52.279 your I mean doesn't not matter at all. But, like the brand, 216 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:54.559 presentation matters less if you've gotten their interests. Of Yes, I can help 217 00:13:54.559 --> 00:14:00.799 you solve this. So we're thinking about language, we're thinking about the medium, 218 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:03.120 because the medium really matters. So when I open an email, does 219 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:07.279 it look like more of a landing page? Doesn't look like there's a will 220 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:11.840 feel to it? How are you guys testing campaigns and utilizing email at patient 221 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:15.600 pop right now? One of the big things for us, and this was 222 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.840 kind of an edict I made when I took over all of demand Jen for 223 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:22.320 the business, was nothing should ever leave the door without testing. There's never 224 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.039 a time we should be sending an email where the only goal is conversion. 225 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:30.480 Yes, conversion is obviously a goal. If we're promoting our next Webinarre. 226 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:33.600 We want to get those registrants because we know that fuels the funnel and we 227 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:37.840 know our sales team is waiting for those leads. But it also has to 228 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.799 have a goal of what you can learn for your brand in terms of subgocline 229 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:46.120 performance, in terms of your copy, your tone or your funnel alignment. 230 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:50.360 For us, like I try to think of our emails as almost like a 231 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.840 mini landing page to what they will be hitting. Okay, kind of going 232 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:56.919 back to that like all saints. Example, from an e commerce side, 233 00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:00.159 when you get an email being like here's the latest trends for this season and 234 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:01.799 go check it out and you're looking at in your email and then you hit 235 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:05.440 the ECOMMERCE page to the look at those products, it feels seamless. It 236 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:09.879 looks like your email just went from email to landing page and you never left. 237 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:15.120 That experience I think sometimes be to be you know, if you are 238 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.399 hosting a landing page for a white paper download on your corporate site through your 239 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:22.799 wordpress, instance, and then running an email campaign through Marquetto you may not 240 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.679 be making those designs feel really locked step, and we've definitely been guilty of 241 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:30.320 that at times because you know, you get in this mentality of like, 242 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:33.679 okay, what has proven success? Okay, this landing page has proven success 243 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:37.720 and this email temp what has proven success. But do they make sense together? 244 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.519 Do they actually look like two pieces of the same campaign, the same 245 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:45.360 execution? More doesan just look like, in our case, like you went 246 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:48.200 from one green colored thing to another green color thing and if it wasn't for 247 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:50.320 the color in our logo mark you wouldn't see a connection. It's something we 248 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:56.919 have to be really cognizant about as marketers. That's interesting. I've never really 249 00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:00.480 stopped to think about that. But the seamless nature of when I click on 250 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:06.120 something, open new window, take me to a different APP whatever it needs 251 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:11.519 to engage the thought process I was already on. Yeah, and allow me 252 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:15.559 to just continue down again. Men Use the funnel language, but you want 253 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.159 that that person to start to get like tunnel vision towards something, and I 254 00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:25.600 think our direction were like this emails great, this emails great over here, 255 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:29.320 and then someone else built this great thing over here, and the way that 256 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:33.879 those things kind of coincide me maybe off or missing. And I think the 257 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:37.799 especially for someone like me coming from be to be and specifically in Sass be 258 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.519 to be. Sometimes our products, when they are software, are so abstract 259 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:47.480 that it's hard to get visuals that really drive home what it is you're promoting 260 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:52.240 when you're talking about how things like email solutions can drive, in our case, 261 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:56.240 patient recall for practices, like you don't want to just show an inbox. 262 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:57.600 That's a weird thing, but then you don't want to go so lifestyle. 263 00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:00.759 That's, you know, smiling, happy person looking at their phone, 264 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:04.359 because then it has no meeting whatsoever and like what's the point of that imagery 265 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:08.200 other than to have a person on it see in the email every day? 266 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:11.480 Yeah, yeah, so it's it can be a struggle, especially and be 267 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.000 because I like there are times where I look at BTC market I'm like God, 268 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.279 that looks so much nicer where it's like you're selling a physical product, 269 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:22.440 like here are these shoes I want you to buy. It's more styling that. 270 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:26.240 There are times when we're looking at even beyond demandgen looking at our website 271 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:30.920 or our product walk through videos of like okay, how do we represent this 272 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.279 product? Because our we all agree that our product is great looking. It 273 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:37.160 has great results for our customers. We know it does, but how do 274 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:42.000 we presented in an abstract, non movement kind of frame, like like email, 275 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.160 like static email, and and really get the point across by what we 276 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.680 can do and how we can help? You mentioned testing. What are some 277 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.519 of those tests that you've run? Can give like an example of some of 278 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:56.279 the things you're trying? One of the big errors of focus for us lately 279 00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:00.279 has been especially with email. Were interesting because our sales cycle is really short, 280 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:03.599 especially when we have deals coming from inbound like we it's not uncommon for 281 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:07.279 us to see someone coming from an mql state to a new customer in under 282 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.240 two weeks. So, as someone has been with a I'm very spoiled. 283 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:15.799 I am absolutely spoiled and there are some people kill for that sale cycle. 284 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.359 But one of the things that we've always done with email historically, from when 285 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:22.839 I was first starting and I was running the campaigns myself, is we didn't 286 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:29.680 really take a good look at how we treat email along every step of the 287 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:32.880 funnel because the funnel felt so quick that it was hard to do that. 288 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.680 And we may not have like every defined funnel stage that we can align with, 289 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:40.240 but there are definite, you know, top, middle bottom, general 290 00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:45.880 stages that we've been testing. How do we optimize our offers, our copy, 291 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.559 our tone, are visuals based on where they're at the funnel? How 292 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:52.480 do we treat someone who is in our database because maybe they've downloaded a single 293 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:57.839 white paper from one of our content marketing efforts on native or social and get 294 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:03.039 them a little further down, versus someone who maybe saw demo of the product 295 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:04.680 six months ago, the timing was off and now we're trying to re engage 296 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:08.759 them? How we can leverage emails a channel to make sure we're mapping toward 297 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:12.960 the prospect is is something that putting a lot of energy into. One of 298 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:15.839 the guys on my team, Brian, has been a big fan of of 299 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:19.920 the vice framework, the velocity impact confidence in these kind of way of looking 300 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:23.799 at what we're testing, because one of the things we become guilty of is, 301 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:26.759 you know, we spend so much time not having the bandwidth the test 302 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:30.359 that we kind of carved out time for ourselves where it's like, okay, 303 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:33.799 brainstorm, blue sky session. What's everything we would test if we could? 304 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:36.200 And all of a sudden you have this amazing list of things you want to 305 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:38.799 test and you're like, I have no idea where it start so overwhelm rings 306 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:42.160 of a really good job. Yeah, it's overwhelming because you're like, we're 307 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:45.400 how do I pick? Do I pick the one that people were the most 308 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:48.119 passionate about? And applying that vice framework actually is nice because it gives a 309 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:52.279 numeracle score to what everything we want to test is and you can kind of 310 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:56.440 see which ones across. How quickly can we do it? What impact are 311 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.160 we expecting? How confident are we in the results? How easy it is 312 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:03.839 for us to implement it? That kind of allows us to triage things automatically 313 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:07.839 and really prioritize what we're testing. Funnel position has been a big thing for 314 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.960 us and it's probably in our biggest testing focus because it is that like what 315 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.680 is the offer? What is the tone? What is the look? We've 316 00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:17.920 also been doing a lot of testing around email, around what we've been referring 317 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:21.759 to internally as email affinity groups, where we look at people who came in 318 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:26.000 from our top of funnel campaigns and try to group what not necessarily buy. 319 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:30.599 What what up part of our product they're interested in, but what problem they're 320 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.559 trying to solve? Are they trying to really like figure out how to market 321 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:37.960 a practice? Are they figure out how to really drive a better control of 322 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:41.799 their their online reputation? Are they're really look at just bringing New People in 323 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:45.000 the door and and keeping those patients coming back time after time and looking how 324 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:48.960 we segment our audience instead of looking at it based off of, you know, 325 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:52.880 what their medical specialty is or how large of a practice they're at, 326 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:57.119 trying to segment them based off of their kind of self identified problem statements. 327 00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:02.000 So we've been doing kind of drip campaign is based off of those affinity groups 328 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:04.240 and seeing some really cool success from it. How many segments, Jordan? 329 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:10.119 How many of those kind of little groups have you tried to go after? 330 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:12.720 I think there's three or four that we have where we kind of treat it 331 00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:17.640 as whenever we launch a new content piece or run a new campaign, we 332 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:19.920 try to associate it with one of I think we have about three main ones. 333 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:22.839 And then I think okay, forth, where it's just kind of the 334 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:26.519 this is a new topic that like maybe we just put out a super seasonal, 335 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.759 very like current topic kind of piece that doesn't necessarily fall somewhere else. 336 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.640 We need kind of a general what we refer to as like our practice growth 337 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:37.960 kind of affinity group and figuring out how do we push them into another affinity 338 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.440 group from there if we didn't get their full interest point. But I think 339 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.200 it's around three or four that we focus on right now to make sure we 340 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.440 get it right like that. Go back with me real quick for those that 341 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:52.599 would have been unfamiliar with the vice framework and just resay that so that we 342 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.079 have a second time to think through what you what it is. So the 343 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.720 vice framework, I want to give all credit to Brian clevisy on my team, 344 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:03.880 kind of brought this to us as a way to start measuring all of 345 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.559 our AB testing. But vice is an acronym for Velocity, impact, confidence 346 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:12.200 and ease, which basically allows you to look at everything you're testing and figure 347 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:15.079 out for any test you want to run, you have to kind of give 348 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:19.359 it a score based off all of those criteria and based off of that, 349 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:22.039 you kind of have a hide a lower. You can figure out, okay, 350 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.640 this is something that we can do very quickly. We think it has 351 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:29.640 high impact. We're really confident that we that it's gonna drive some sort of 352 00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:32.440 so we're going to get some sort of results and it doesn't take us a 353 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:34.640 lot of heavy looking to get it done. That's a win, whereas other 354 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:37.400 things where it's like, Oh, you know, this would have a lot 355 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:40.880 of impact and really confident, but we can't do it quickly and it's not 356 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:44.359 going to be easy. Maybe we don't prioritize this right now. But we 357 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:48.039 start talking to marketing up so we start talking to our dever resources and figure 358 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:51.680 out how we start spinning up in the background as we get closer to it. 359 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:56.000 It's really like that triaging tool for us around all of these AV tests, 360 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:00.799 velocity, impact, confidence, EA's. That is a good reminder. 361 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.079 I like that one. Thank you for sharing that with us. Okay, 362 00:23:04.119 --> 00:23:10.119 so you're telling us that the testing that you're doing super valuable. That sort 363 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:14.400 of falls in the things you're actually doing right now. I wonder, moving 364 00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:19.359 and maybe looking out into the future, what are you trying to maybe the 365 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:25.440 next thing you're interested in? What are you actively hoping to improve moving forward 366 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:30.400 that maybe you're not testing yet? I want to go nuts on personalization. 367 00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:33.359 We're a MARQUETTO customer and there's it's one of those tools where, I know 368 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:37.319 there's so many things that we're not we're not using it for everything we could, 369 00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:41.720 whether it's because of time or resources, but we have a very robust 370 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:47.160 in how crm database of people that we know are in our target market that 371 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:48.680 we want to go after, and I think there's still a lot of work 372 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:53.640 we can do to kind of really boost in those email formats that are clearly 373 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:59.000 one too many, like a newsletter. How do we really elevate and step 374 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:02.839 up our game around what we're doing around personalization? How can we change? 375 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.039 You know, for us, for example, we do use a lot of 376 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:10.039 like kind of healthcare medical lifestyle imagery. Can we do things to make sure 377 00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:12.640 that the imagery were showing is different if we're if the person opening that email 378 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:18.880 is an obi guine or a dentist or a pediatrist or an orthopedic surgeon. 379 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:21.720 And Yeah, what do we want to change about that? One thing that 380 00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:23.720 we were looking at doing, and then pause thanks to Covid is when we 381 00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:29.160 have our presence at trade shows, can we leverage their zip code information to 382 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:32.440 show extra modules that we're going to be at an upcoming trade shown that they 383 00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:36.640 can set up time to stop by our booth and have that intelligently show where, 384 00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:37.960 you know, if the shows in San Francisco, we don't need to 385 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.079 show that to someone who's going to email Miami necessarily, but if we know 386 00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:45.400 you're in the Greater Bay area, can we do that really smart personalization in 387 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.480 the vice kind of world. For us, unfortunately, that's not exactly in 388 00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:52.599 the ease category, so it hasn't been prioritized, but it's something we're really 389 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.440 eager to do and to do more with. HMM, good too. Things 390 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:02.680 are okay. So let's talk about what tools apps because I want to go 391 00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:07.240 practical here as we start to wrap up on the house and how you're executing 392 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:11.400 the stuff that you guys are doing. What tools and APPs of you use 393 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:14.599 that you feel like are really helping your email campaigns? Right now, one 394 00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:18.000 that's become really popular with my team and we've all become big advocates for his 395 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:21.839 path factory. And if you're not familiar with path factory, it's this really 396 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:26.599 cool content engagement system that allows you to try to make content more bingeable. 397 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:29.960 I remember when I was on sales pictures with them originally, when we were 398 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.279 looking for a solution. They kind of position themselves as like we kind of 399 00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:37.359 want to be the Netflix of be to be content, where Netflix kind of 400 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:38.880 will give you the suggestions of like, go watch this next. Yeah, 401 00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:41.920 because one of the things we knew, and we would see this through our 402 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:45.720 own crm tracking and our marketing tracking, is that we would see all of 403 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:49.759 these these one deals we got where someone was downloading a white paper a month 404 00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:53.519 from us, like every month for a year, and after all that we 405 00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:57.799 finally got the win off of it. We finally gotten that position for them 406 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:02.079 and it kind of open to this question for us of how do we kind 407 00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:04.279 of accelerate that process where we can put more content in front of you right 408 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:07.400 away? And what's cool about path factory is they have these content paths where 409 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.759 you can load up basically a playlist of content across a lot of different media 410 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:15.920 forms and just have them all in one playlist. So you can put a 411 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:19.160 pdfile in there, you can put video content, like we have our whisty 412 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.839 of videos living in there. You can even embed individual like web pages, 413 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.480 so like if there's a page that lives on your site, you can pull 414 00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:30.640 it straight in and it all lives in one contained space where you have analytics, 415 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:34.599 you have known versus unknown visitors. It integrates with our Marqutto instance, 416 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.119 so the data gets passed back and forth. We can see what the last 417 00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:40.839 asset they were reading on. And what I really like them is that they 418 00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:44.200 have kind of intelligent dating systems. All of us is be to be markers. 419 00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:45.480 Are Constantly having that fight of like do I gate it? Do I 420 00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:48.720 unate it? Does everyone have access to it? Like are there certain things 421 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:52.599 as a depend and what we liked about about path factory is the fact that 422 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:59.319 we could use intelligent gates and determine when and how we want to show that 423 00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:04.119 wall. So if someone was looking at our content for multiple minutes, we 424 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:07.039 could say hey, once they've been looking at things and actively engage on the 425 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:11.839 page for at least forty five seconds or exactly two minutes, that's when it 426 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:15.359 that gate shows up and we get them to kind of keep going. Or 427 00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.319 we could say that, you know, all of these assets in the path 428 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.240 are free to view except for this one, like high value research piece, 429 00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:25.559 we do need to collect your information on and it allows us to be a 430 00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:27.519 lot smarter and a lot INTU more intelligent about how we do that. And 431 00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:33.400 their team does regular qbrs with US around how we're using taxonomy in their system 432 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.400 and what's working and what's not and figuring out how we can levered it more. 433 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.319 It's been a really popular tool for the team and, like anything we're 434 00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:42.720 working on, we're like, okay, we can, we use path factory 435 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:45.880 for this. To one of our executions that we did early on is, 436 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:48.880 and I feel I see a lot of people struggling this with with newsletters, 437 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.240 where you're like here's like the last five things we published. Well, you 438 00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:56.000 don't want someone to click off on the first content thing and then have to 439 00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:59.279 go back to their email to find something else because they can get distracted. 440 00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:03.240 The Nice thing is if we would have like our our February newsletter with five 441 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.880 content pieces, we would load those full, all five of those content pieces, 442 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:10.240 into one path and scroll no matter where you clicked in the email, 443 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:11.720 you hit the one you wanted, but everything else is right there and you 444 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.759 don't have to go back beforeth Nice. So it's been a really cool, 445 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:21.000 powerful tool for us and we're constantly looking for like how else do we leverage 446 00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:22.960 it? We're constantly like looking at what the new product releases are from them 447 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.200 and seeing if there's something else we can do. We played with actually building 448 00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:30.559 like you can build almost like a little mini microsite resource set are that like 449 00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:34.559 requires no coding work. So obviously, being in healthcare, we had a 450 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.599 lot of content we're putting out at a very start of covid and trying to 451 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.200 get this information out to our providers around hey, like here's how tell a 452 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:45.400 health building codes matter to you now and what you have to do, and 453 00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:48.480 we're able to kind of spin up a really quick resource hub with a lot 454 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:52.680 of content one place that normally would have taken like several Dev cycles and it 455 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.599 was just kind of quick, easy done. Wow. Well, this episode's 456 00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:00.160 brought to you by path factory. Still apparently I'm now a brand ambassador and 457 00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:03.519 I didn't realize it, but I like it. I always love giving away 458 00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:07.640 some of those practical it just it's interesting to hear what tools are working, 459 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:11.359 it's true. And like and and we're still looking at directmail has become a 460 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:15.119 big channel for us. It works really well for us and we're still looking 461 00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:18.480 at how we can better where a sendoso customer and how we can integrate sendoso 462 00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:22.240 into our email campaigns and as we do those offers that are aligned with funnel 463 00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:26.440 position, are there things that we can do to drive, you know, 464 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.480 those door open earth campaigns, those deal accelerator campaigns and have that tie into 465 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:33.319 email. So it's kind of every execution is all in one touch. So 466 00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:37.200 there's there's more we're testing there. I'm a big fan of the campaigns that 467 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.400 are very like a mix of like doing the campaigns where it's just a packets 468 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:42.920 and we shows up unexpectedly, versus like Hey, I want to send you 469 00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:47.720 something. Please opt in, because if you've gotten someone's opt into mailing you 470 00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:51.000 something like there's there's obviously much better avenue for our sales and to have a 471 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:56.400 conversation. All right, well, this has been fascinating. Oh, ask 472 00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:00.599 one more question and then, and I will will get your socials and ways 473 00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:04.519 for people to connect. If you were going to start from scratch, where 474 00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:08.039 would you begin? And I mean this in the way of clearly there's a 475 00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:11.839 million things you could do in marketing in general, but let's go email specific. 476 00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:15.920 Maybe there hasn't been a lot of strategy at a company and they bring 477 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:21.440 Jordan in and he's going to start do an email. What are you focusing 478 00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:25.400 on? What's important to you? You're starting from scratch. Go I mean 479 00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:27.880 first and foremost as audience. Like there's nothing you can do with email market 480 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:32.119 until you really have a hand on who your audiences. So looking at what 481 00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:34.599 you're existing database is. Do you have consent? Have you been able to 482 00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:37.480 segment them? How much information do you have in there, and really making 483 00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:44.079 sure you have all the information you need to really build out smart segments without 484 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.160 going so far down the road that you're like hyper segmenting too early, too 485 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:52.039 fast, but being able to at least have some sort of like for us 486 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:53.759 it's in like a healthcare space, it's can I at least segment them by 487 00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:57.240 what medical specialty they are and how my language will change there. So that 488 00:30:57.319 --> 00:31:00.680 audience data. And if you don't have it, that's not a reason to 489 00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:03.839 panic. There's so many resource out there you can go to kind of append 490 00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.160 and scrub and add more to your database. After that is text act like 491 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:11.519 you need to have the right tool that's powerful enough to scale with you, 492 00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:14.839 as you know, your programs are going to scale. It's really easy for 493 00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:17.359 us as marketers just be like I need the cheap and easy one, that 494 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:22.039 I'll just be like my MVP product. But if you implement like a lower 495 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.880 lift, the lower strength email marketing tool, that gets the job done but 496 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:29.960 doesn't have everything, like all the bells and whistles you want, and then 497 00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:32.920 your team gets used to it. Now you not only have the debt on 498 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:37.200 your team of having to change over systems, but having everyone relearned something is 499 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:41.000 such a pain. Going to lose some hair in that process. Oh God, 500 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.839 it's it's a nightmare, like whatever someone's like what like we're going through 501 00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:48.400 a merger right now and we have two sets of systems on both sides of 502 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:53.359 the family and it's it's a very intentional discussion around which systems stay. How 503 00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:56.400 do we pick them? And a lot of it is involved in not only 504 00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:00.119 the feature step, but like how comfortable our team is and what they feel 505 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:01.480 like they can and can't do with it right. And I guess the last 506 00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:06.079 thing is like find your inspiration, like figure out what your brand wants to 507 00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:08.079 look and feel. Like there's so many resources out there. There's so many 508 00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:13.200 blogs around the best of email campaigns, whether you're looking at, you know, 509 00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:15.400 trying to drive adoption, trying to go after people haven't logged into your 510 00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:20.799 platform in a while, news letters, pr whatever that looks like. There's 511 00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:22.839 so many great examples out there. Like you almost need to have a little 512 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:28.480 like pinterest mood board kind of moment for what you like and what works, 513 00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.599 and don't be limited by your vertical or like your place on the be Tobb 514 00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:36.599 Toc spectrum because, like, I'm always the biggest advocate of this, like, 515 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:38.920 we have to learn from the other sides of the aisle, especially on 516 00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:42.920 the B Tob side. Yeah, that that inspiration, that mood board, 517 00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:45.839 is so important because as you start doing things with email, you don't want 518 00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:49.880 to look sloppy. Your brand doesn't want to look all over the place. 519 00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:52.279 You need a little bit of cohesiveness. Even if you are going to be 520 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:57.000 testing and playing with things, try not to piss off your creative director in 521 00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:00.839 the process and good luck. But yeah, good look with that one. 522 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:05.839 Thanks, Jordan, for spending time with us here. Tell us a little 523 00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:08.400 bit more about patient pop and then where can we connect with you? So 524 00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:13.240 patient pop is the leader and practice growth. Our goal is to help independent 525 00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:17.160 private practices really grow and thrive and drive care for their communities. We do 526 00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:22.440 that through helping them with their website, their Seo, their reputation, marketing 527 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:27.119 campaigns, tell a health billing solutions, mobile APPs, everything that healthcare proviators 528 00:33:27.160 --> 00:33:29.680 need. At the end of the day, we know that these health care 529 00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:34.200 proviators provide such an important service to our community and to our country, especially 530 00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:37.000 as we've all been living through covid. But they studied medicine, not marketing. 531 00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:40.480 They don't always know what they don't know. So our goals really help 532 00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:45.400 them build a growing, thriving business and be those leaders that they can rely 533 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.400 on to get the most out of their business. In terms of getting connected 534 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.000 with me, Linkedin is always the best channel. I think there's some really 535 00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:55.359 antiquated marketer Jordan twitter account that probably hasn't been touched in yours. Don't bother, 536 00:33:55.400 --> 00:33:59.440 but linkedin is probably the best channel to get a hold of me these 537 00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:02.960 days. Fantastic. Well, thanks for being on B Tob Growth. Thanks 538 00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:07.880 for sharing your wealth of wisdom on email marketing with us. We really appreciate 539 00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:12.960 it. Thanks so much for having its been a blast or always having insightful 540 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:16.039 conversations just like this one here on be tob growth. I would love to 541 00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:20.079 connect with you. You can connect with me on Linkedin as well. Just 542 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:22.559 search Benji Block. I'm always sorry about marketing business and life over there and 543 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:27.599 love having some back and forth. So feel free to reach out there. 544 00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:30.960 If you haven't subscribed to the show yet, do that wherever you're listening to 545 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.480 this, and it will be back real soon with another episode. Keep doing 546 00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:50.000 work. The matters BB growth is brought to you by the team at sweet 547 00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:52.239 fish media. Here at sweetfish, we produce podcasts for some of the most 548 00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:57.880 innovative brands in the world and we help them turn those podcasts into Microvideos, 549 00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:01.000 linkedin content, blog posts and more. We're on a mission to produce every 550 00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:09.599 leader's favorite show. Want more information, visit sweet PHISH MEDIACOM