What's Missing in Your Email Campaign? with Jordan Decker

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:13.279 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be to be growth. 2 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:22.359 Hello and welcome into be to be growth. Today I'm joined by Jordan Decker. 3 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:27.239 He's the vice president of demand generation at patient pop. Jordan, thanks 4 00:00:27.239 --> 00:00:30.760 for being on the show, thanks for having me. So I asked you 5 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:35.520 a question, Jordan, offline, about what you do if I gave you 6 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:41.159 a limitless budget in your marketing right now and you said that you would hire 7 00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:47.320 a small army to iterate on email campaigns and design. And so here's my 8 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:52.159 first question for you. What do you believe we are under utilizing in our 9 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:56.280 email marketing when it comes to the the be tob space right now? I 10 00:00:56.359 --> 00:01:00.960 mean it's testing, it's creative and copy every step of the way. We 11 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:06.359 get in this really bad habit sometimes with email because it I feel like, 12 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:10.319 compared to other demand gen channels, emails usually a lighter lift compared to I 13 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:12.159 have to go build display ads, I have to go do a video campaign 14 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:17.599 on Youtube. We tend to think so shortsighted in terms of email or we 15 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:19.599 don't have enough time to work on it, where we just go with the 16 00:01:19.640 --> 00:01:23.400 last temple that worked, go with the last language Tome that worked and just 17 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:26.920 run with it. In my dream world I have like a little army of 18 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:32.439 copywriters and creative and man Gen experts who are just saying there thinking, okay, 19 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:34.879 for every single email we do, what is the test were running? 20 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:38.120 What are we going to go try to do out of this, if whether 21 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:42.439 it's imagery or layout or like hml versus plaintext, and what is the tone 22 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:45.200 and what is the language like? I just want to have a little like 23 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:49.920 vice framework, AB testing army working on it, because it's such it always 24 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.840 has such untap potential and it's such a great channel for conversation where you're not 25 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:59.239 limited by character limit or minutes of video. You can phrase it the way 26 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:00.599 you want to, you can present it the way you want to. So 27 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:06.799 I would just test the hell out of everything. Two seven sounds fun and 28 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:09.360 time consuming. So you would definitely need the small army. So I love 29 00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:14.000 the way that you phrase that because you're thinking about this. Maybe it would 30 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:19.840 be helpful to just give some context to your current marketing role and what makes 31 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:23.599 you think about this, like give a sort of your day to day so 32 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:27.680 I oversee all functions of demand generation and the way that works within the patient 33 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:30.199 pop org is that I oversee everything that has to do with marketing operations and 34 00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:35.840 technology, all of our digital marketing, so paid search, paid Social Seo, 35 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:38.759 all of our programmatic channels, content marketing. My oversee our demand gen 36 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:44.319 programs around email and Webinar and direct mail, and I also oversee all of 37 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:47.919 our customer marketing and our partner marketing. So basically, anything that's driving new 38 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:53.680 business or helping to drive retention and upsell or cross cell falls within me and 39 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:57.800 my team from the marketing side, which then explains why email becomes very compelling 40 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:01.280 to you. Right. Yes, email is specially coming from a company that 41 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:07.919 focuses on the healthcare space and specifically really focusing on those providers who sit within 42 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:12.199 that private practice independent practice space. There's not a lot of data out there 43 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:14.159 that I get to go mind. Like, as much as I would love 44 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:16.599 to sit there pulling six sense lists all day, every day, that's not 45 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:20.719 a real option for US based off of the quality of the data that we 46 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:23.879 can get and how it fits within our target market, where we do have 47 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:27.240 a lot of stuff as our own first party database that we've built an email 48 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:30.199 and we know who those people are, we know what their specialty is what 49 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:35.719 their area focus is. We have their consent to email and we can really 50 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:38.159 leverage that in a way that we don't have to be worried about. You 51 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:43.719 know, what is IOS privacy doing to facebook advertising and how is that impacting 52 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:46.319 our reach? And is there more competition on paid search and there was before? 53 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:50.680 Like emails our channel, we have it. We see really good engagement 54 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:53.039 off of it. HMM. Okay. So, because you're thinking about this 55 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:58.280 a lot, what do you think when it comes to be to be email 56 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:03.400 campaigns specifically, like if I gave Jordan decker a billboard to tell the world 57 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:09.280 of be to be what to stop doing, what would you tell people they 58 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:12.919 should stop? So I'm torn. My first thing, this is a pet 59 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:15.520 pee of me and my senior leaders on my team have a slack channel. 60 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:18.920 We just share the bad emails we get sent by people trying to prospect us. 61 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:21.319 So if you've sent me one before, I'm there wasn't good. I 62 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:25.600 probably have mocked it with the people who reports me. Sorry, you're on 63 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:29.319 a walla shame somewhere. I'm sure I am. But one of my biggest 64 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:32.000 pet peeves is when people are clearly doing a one too many and trying to 65 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:35.720 make it seem like it's one to one, when it's painfully not. Obviously 66 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:40.240 you know, especially if you're like an st are doing cold outreach like that. 67 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:43.959 One too many cadence in your sequence tool was obvious really helpful, but 68 00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:47.879 that lack of personalization, or just like a kind of half to attempt to 69 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:53.199 do real, deep personalization, is always so obvious. If you want my 70 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:57.240 attention, you have to have a really good sense of how to reach me 71 00:04:57.319 --> 00:05:00.439 and how to connect with me. The other thing is stop sending me all 72 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:03.279 of your emails first thing in the morning, like I live by starting my 73 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:06.399 day by purging my inbox, especially since I'm west coast, I know everyone 74 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:10.519 on the East Coast at getting my inbox and if you're hitting me, if 75 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:14.000 you're just like I'm, automatically send this out first in the morning every time. 76 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:17.360 Chances are if I don't recognize your name or your subdaylines, really not, 77 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:20.720 really good. I've deleted you, like before I've gotten out of bed, 78 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:25.519 while I'm like treatic my inbox with one eye still closed. Same like 79 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:29.160 it's that big purge every I did a flow linkedin post on this recently, 80 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:31.319 where it's like, if you really want to stand out, like think about 81 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:34.399 timing and like think about when in my day I might actually have time to 82 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:38.240 like catch your email. You don't know if I'm be going a boring call 83 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:41.040 and I'm actually really paying more attention to my inbox because I'm trying to be 84 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:44.439 distracted while trying to focus at the same time. But yeah, first in 85 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:46.240 the morning. Don't bother. I'm not doing very good at one thing on 86 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.839 a billboard. I think on that one too. I just even switching up 87 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:54.839 your times. But when you were saying the the one too many, the 88 00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:59.319 half attempt is what bugs me. It's so bad. I don't care if 89 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:01.959 you send out if you send out a mass email, hi, almost if 90 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:06.000 it's done well, I don't mind. At least I know what I know. 91 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:10.519 The context right, you're getting the message out to a bunch of people. 92 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:15.879 But I receive emails where the first line is it because I'm in podcast 93 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.879 world Jordan. I'll just give you a podcast specific example. They will take 94 00:06:18.920 --> 00:06:21.759 it feels like they went to the last episode of be to be growth. 95 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:27.959 They just scrolled over to like halfway through whatever. They heard the guest mention. 96 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:30.360 You know, the very first sentence they said they like wrote it down 97 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:33.319 real quick in an email and the rest of it is copied and pasted. 98 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:36.680 It's the same for everybody and they're just pitching a guest of me and I'm 99 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:41.600 like, Whoa, this is not personalized. This actually almost makes me feel 100 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:45.160 worse, like I don't know, what's an example from your world, it's 101 00:06:45.199 --> 00:06:48.879 just spam. My number one tell for someone. I don't want to give 102 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:50.839 us away because if someone's listening this and trying to get ahold of me, 103 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:55.240 they're going to catch this now. But my number one twel is that they 104 00:06:55.279 --> 00:07:00.319 are doing kind of dynamic token copy. If they list patient pop as patient 105 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:02.720 Pop Inc, because they've clearly pulled it off a Linkedin, because I think 106 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:05.560 on Linkedin were listed as patient pop ink, at least in certain places. 107 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:09.839 I forget, or I just exist in their crm somewhere that way. But 108 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:14.279 like the ink part of my company name, like under no circumstances that ever 109 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:17.519 used in common conversation or an email. Yeah, so those little things that 110 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:20.120 I can I can spot. The other thing that I get a lot as 111 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:25.079 someone who it's not only emails I get, because we've had people leave the 112 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:27.800 company in the past where, like I get their old emails forwarded to me. 113 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:30.560 People just don't do any form of research to make sure, like is 114 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:34.120 this your current job title? Are you still at this company? Like I 115 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:38.399 get my old boss as emails all the time and it's like hey, jared, 116 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:40.920 now's a great time to talk about was having patient Bop, my dude 117 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:44.639 don't work here no more, like and his linkedin makes it very clear. 118 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:47.959 So you're kind of lazy prospecting if you're not at least going to look up 119 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:51.759 the information on the person you're trying to reach out to. Like, come 120 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:57.360 on, there's right ways and wrong ways to use tokenization and email. For 121 00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:01.720 sure, we could probably do a whole episode just on that, but we 122 00:08:01.759 --> 00:08:07.759 won't. Absolutely will scare you. So what exactly do you when you think 123 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:13.360 of email design? Tell me what you what you consider, what comes to 124 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:16.800 mind when I use that phrasing, email design in a weird way for me, 125 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:20.240 like I think a lot of people use the word design and immediately think 126 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:22.680 of visuals. When it comes to designing an email, tone and language is 127 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:26.120 actually what I think of first. There's great resources out of the kind of 128 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:31.759 show how to diversify your tone and language and writing, making like things as 129 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:33.600 easy as making sure that like not all your sentences of the same length. 130 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.759 You're going between full like full length, like eight, nine, ten word 131 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.440 versus a three word, and really trying to sound conversational. I had a 132 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:45.559 direct report who used to work from me, where she had come from like 133 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:48.320 a financial background, and her copy red legs someone who came from like a 134 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:52.480 financial background, and I used to tell them like you're writing, like your 135 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:56.399 posture is like so stiff and like etiquette, like I need you to like 136 00:08:56.679 --> 00:08:58.559 slump a little bit. You need to sound like a person when you're writing 137 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.840 this, and I would do stuff with her. I'm like, read this 138 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:03.679 out loud to me and it would sound awkward. I'm like, okay, 139 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:07.840 if this doesn't sound how how you talk, this isn't written right and we 140 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:09.360 have to go back and Redo it. It should sound like. I was 141 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:13.159 like, if your aunt's a doctor and she's running own practice, as this, 142 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.480 how you'd explain it to her? Like hang out at your parents house. 143 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:18.080 No, go do it again, like wrong language. But then also, 144 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:22.919 like the actual design of your email is so important too, and I 145 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:26.399 think be to be, especially if you're doing like html design, like newsletter, 146 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:31.080 white paper, content download kind of emails. We have a tendency to 147 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:35.080 not have the most esthetically pleasing looks and feels. We tend to be a 148 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:41.120 little behind the curve on design and really looking at what you're doing to make 149 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:43.519 your email feel like it's well designed and well polished, especially in a beat 150 00:09:43.519 --> 00:09:46.399 to be space, because you're trying to win over business, to show that 151 00:09:46.440 --> 00:09:50.279 like you can help someone grow their business. How are you marketing what you're 152 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:54.639 doing? How are you making your look and feel, especially for us, 153 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:58.039 because a big part of a patient pop does is help private practices advertise and 154 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:01.120 grow their business. Nine Times out of time, when we have a successful 155 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:05.559 marketing activity, those practices immediately go back to us and go so how do 156 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:09.240 I do this now? So I'm almost proving what we can do for our 157 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:11.639 prospects based off what me and my team are doing for our own brand on 158 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:16.759 a regular basis. So looking cutting edge, looking like the phrase cutting edge, 159 00:10:16.759 --> 00:10:20.399 but it's true, looking really modern design and looking what works well on 160 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:22.519 the B to sea side, because for sure what we see more and more 161 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:28.200 is that people are consuming in their be tob world the same way they consume 162 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:31.759 content or material or information and as a consumer there's no gap anymore and this 163 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:37.320 sense of like a betb cell looks one way in a BTC cell looks another, 164 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:41.080 is going away. There's no reason why I shouldn't be getting an email 165 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:43.799 from a brand like six sense that has a cool look and feel, like 166 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:46.679 a might get from like All Saints when I'm picking out something I want to 167 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:50.919 buy to weere. HMM. The thing that I think of there, and 168 00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:54.840 I would love to hear your take on is if all saints sends me an 169 00:10:54.840 --> 00:11:01.240 email, I'm interested as the consumer automatically because they know that I've bought from 170 00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:05.200 them or I've opted into something. Clearly, on the BB side you opted 171 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:09.600 into an email somewhere where you're probably not just straight up getting spammed all the 172 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:13.200 time. I would hope not, but I think when I get a really 173 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:18.279 highly branded be to be email, we haven't figured out what you brought up 174 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:22.200 first, which is the language side, because I see highly branded be to 175 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:28.120 be emails that seem very hyper prideful, like they lead with MMM, who 176 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:33.360 we are as a company versus why we're interesting to you, versus all saints 177 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:37.480 knows. I looked at this specific item of clothing and they're popping it up 178 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:41.159 on my screen with amazing visuals and I'm like that's the Holy Grail, I 179 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:46.320 must buy now. It's so funny, like even aside from email, the 180 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:48.639 concept of retargeting, like if you talk to your friends who don't work at 181 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:52.480 a marketing space, they're like, Oh God, it's so like it's creepy, 182 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:54.799 it's big brother, but all of us who work in marketing and know 183 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:56.240 how the day to work, we're like no, no, like, prospect 184 00:11:56.279 --> 00:12:00.240 me better, yeah, give me better ads, got a card abandonment add 185 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.039 for me, like give me a sequence deal, like, I'm ready, 186 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:05.720 let's go. But it is true, because a lot of what I see 187 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:11.039 brands doing is not always making sure that the way they talk, on the 188 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:13.759 way they present their brand aligns with the funnel position of the prospect they're going 189 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:16.639 after. And you really have to tie that not only in terms of like 190 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:20.559 what you're offering, but how you're talking to them, because in a pure 191 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.399 top of funnel prospecting kind of mode, which, to your point, shouldn't 192 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:26.919 be happening, realized email, because you shouldn't be going after all these people 193 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:30.039 you don't have consented. You know, but that's again as a whole other 194 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.759 legal topic podcast right there. You don't want to be this weird braggy thing, 195 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:37.480 but you do also want to present your brand in a way where it's 196 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.000 like I'm the one here to solve your problem. But the court of that 197 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:43.639 and and one of our sales leaders who just be working with us, Kevin 198 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:48.960 Dorsey, always talked about is like getting people to understand and agree about a 199 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.279 problem before you try to sell, and I think that applies to marketing as 200 00:12:52.279 --> 00:12:56.159 well. We have to be focused on do you agree that you have this 201 00:12:56.200 --> 00:13:00.639 problem you're trying to solve, that my solution can come help you with, 202 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:03.200 before I just kind of, you know, full on music man, trombones 203 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:07.399 blaring, marching through town kind of approach. You got to bring people along 204 00:13:07.399 --> 00:13:11.559 on that journey and if, if you are just focus on like here's how 205 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:15.559 cool my brand is and not here's how my brand can help you, you're 206 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:18.000 coming off, to your point, as like braggy ego as opposed to like 207 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:24.039 you know that I'm here to serve you as our future hopeful customer. And 208 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:26.960 I say braggy in it doesn't even necessarily come off as that. It just 209 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.440 comes off as like we don't even understand what you do. Yeah, the 210 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:33.480 number of be to be like, especially like Sass kind of brands. We 211 00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:37.559 are like this looks really cool. The Hell do you do? Like, 212 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:41.440 I don't understand your value prop and, and it goes back to that, 213 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:46.320 like how do you focus on the problem your product is solving? Because if 214 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:48.840 you can present how you solve a problem, it doesn't matter how you present 215 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:52.279 your I mean doesn't not matter at all. But, like the brand, 216 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:54.559 presentation matters less if you've gotten their interests. Of Yes, I can help 217 00:13:54.559 --> 00:14:00.799 you solve this. So we're thinking about language, we're thinking about the medium, 218 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:03.120 because the medium really matters. So when I open an email, does 219 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:07.279 it look like more of a landing page? Doesn't look like there's a will 220 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:11.840 feel to it? How are you guys testing campaigns and utilizing email at patient 221 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:15.600 pop right now? One of the big things for us, and this was 222 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.840 kind of an edict I made when I took over all of demand Jen for 223 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:22.320 the business, was nothing should ever leave the door without testing. There's never 224 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.039 a time we should be sending an email where the only goal is conversion. 225 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:30.480 Yes, conversion is obviously a goal. If we're promoting our next Webinarre. 226 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:33.600 We want to get those registrants because we know that fuels the funnel and we 227 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:37.840 know our sales team is waiting for those leads. But it also has to 228 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.799 have a goal of what you can learn for your brand in terms of subgocline 229 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:46.120 performance, in terms of your copy, your tone or your funnel alignment. 230 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:50.360 For us, like I try to think of our emails as almost like a 231 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.840 mini landing page to what they will be hitting. Okay, kind of going 232 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:56.919 back to that like all saints. Example, from an e commerce side, 233 00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:00.159 when you get an email being like here's the latest trends for this season and 234 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:01.799 go check it out and you're looking at in your email and then you hit 235 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:05.440 the ECOMMERCE page to the look at those products, it feels seamless. It 236 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:09.879 looks like your email just went from email to landing page and you never left. 237 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:15.120 That experience I think sometimes be to be you know, if you are 238 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.399 hosting a landing page for a white paper download on your corporate site through your 239 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:22.799 wordpress, instance, and then running an email campaign through Marquetto you may not 240 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.679 be making those designs feel really locked step, and we've definitely been guilty of 241 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:30.320 that at times because you know, you get in this mentality of like, 242 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:33.679 okay, what has proven success? Okay, this landing page has proven success 243 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:37.720 and this email temp what has proven success. But do they make sense together? 244 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:41.519 Do they actually look like two pieces of the same campaign, the same 245 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:45.360 execution? More doesan just look like, in our case, like you went 246 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:48.200 from one green colored thing to another green color thing and if it wasn't for 247 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:50.320 the color in our logo mark you wouldn't see a connection. It's something we 248 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:56.919 have to be really cognizant about as marketers. That's interesting. I've never really 249 00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:00.480 stopped to think about that. But the seamless nature of when I click on 250 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:06.120 something, open new window, take me to a different APP whatever it needs 251 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:11.519 to engage the thought process I was already on. Yeah, and allow me 252 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:15.559 to just continue down again. Men Use the funnel language, but you want 253 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.159 that that person to start to get like tunnel vision towards something, and I 254 00:16:19.159 --> 00:16:25.600 think our direction were like this emails great, this emails great over here, 255 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:29.320 and then someone else built this great thing over here, and the way that 256 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:33.879 those things kind of coincide me maybe off or missing. And I think the 257 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:37.799 especially for someone like me coming from be to be and specifically in Sass be 258 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.519 to be. Sometimes our products, when they are software, are so abstract 259 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:47.480 that it's hard to get visuals that really drive home what it is you're promoting 260 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:52.240 when you're talking about how things like email solutions can drive, in our case, 261 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:56.240 patient recall for practices, like you don't want to just show an inbox. 262 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:57.600 That's a weird thing, but then you don't want to go so lifestyle. 263 00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:00.759 That's, you know, smiling, happy person looking at their phone, 264 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:04.359 because then it has no meeting whatsoever and like what's the point of that imagery 265 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:08.200 other than to have a person on it see in the email every day? 266 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:11.480 Yeah, yeah, so it's it can be a struggle, especially and be 267 00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:15.000 because I like there are times where I look at BTC market I'm like God, 268 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:18.279 that looks so much nicer where it's like you're selling a physical product, 269 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:22.440 like here are these shoes I want you to buy. It's more styling that. 270 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:26.240 There are times when we're looking at even beyond demandgen looking at our website 271 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:30.920 or our product walk through videos of like okay, how do we represent this 272 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.279 product? Because our we all agree that our product is great looking. It 273 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:37.160 has great results for our customers. We know it does, but how do 274 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:42.000 we presented in an abstract, non movement kind of frame, like like email, 275 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:45.160 like static email, and and really get the point across by what we 276 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.680 can do and how we can help? You mentioned testing. What are some 277 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.519 of those tests that you've run? Can give like an example of some of 278 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:56.279 the things you're trying? One of the big errors of focus for us lately 279 00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:00.279 has been especially with email. Were interesting because our sales cycle is really short, 280 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:03.599 especially when we have deals coming from inbound like we it's not uncommon for 281 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:07.279 us to see someone coming from an mql state to a new customer in under 282 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.240 two weeks. So, as someone has been with a I'm very spoiled. 283 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:15.799 I am absolutely spoiled and there are some people kill for that sale cycle. 284 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.359 But one of the things that we've always done with email historically, from when 285 00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:22.839 I was first starting and I was running the campaigns myself, is we didn't 286 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:29.680 really take a good look at how we treat email along every step of the 287 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:32.880 funnel because the funnel felt so quick that it was hard to do that. 288 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:36.680 And we may not have like every defined funnel stage that we can align with, 289 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:40.240 but there are definite, you know, top, middle bottom, general 290 00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:45.880 stages that we've been testing. How do we optimize our offers, our copy, 291 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.559 our tone, are visuals based on where they're at the funnel? How 292 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:52.480 do we treat someone who is in our database because maybe they've downloaded a single 293 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:57.839 white paper from one of our content marketing efforts on native or social and get 294 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:03.039 them a little further down, versus someone who maybe saw demo of the product 295 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:04.680 six months ago, the timing was off and now we're trying to re engage 296 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:08.759 them? How we can leverage emails a channel to make sure we're mapping toward 297 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:12.960 the prospect is is something that putting a lot of energy into. One of 298 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:15.839 the guys on my team, Brian, has been a big fan of of 299 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:19.920 the vice framework, the velocity impact confidence in these kind of way of looking 300 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:23.799 at what we're testing, because one of the things we become guilty of is, 301 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:26.759 you know, we spend so much time not having the bandwidth the test 302 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:30.359 that we kind of carved out time for ourselves where it's like, okay, 303 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:33.799 brainstorm, blue sky session. What's everything we would test if we could? 304 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:36.200 And all of a sudden you have this amazing list of things you want to 305 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:38.799 test and you're like, I have no idea where it start so overwhelm rings 306 00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:42.160 of a really good job. Yeah, it's overwhelming because you're like, we're 307 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:45.400 how do I pick? Do I pick the one that people were the most 308 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:48.119 passionate about? And applying that vice framework actually is nice because it gives a 309 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:52.279 numeracle score to what everything we want to test is and you can kind of 310 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:56.440 see which ones across. How quickly can we do it? What impact are 311 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.160 we expecting? How confident are we in the results? How easy it is 312 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:03.839 for us to implement it? That kind of allows us to triage things automatically 313 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:07.839 and really prioritize what we're testing. Funnel position has been a big thing for 314 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.960 us and it's probably in our biggest testing focus because it is that like what 315 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.680 is the offer? What is the tone? What is the look? We've 316 00:20:14.680 --> 00:20:17.920 also been doing a lot of testing around email, around what we've been referring 317 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:21.759 to internally as email affinity groups, where we look at people who came in 318 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:26.000 from our top of funnel campaigns and try to group what not necessarily buy. 319 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:30.599 What what up part of our product they're interested in, but what problem they're 320 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.559 trying to solve? Are they trying to really like figure out how to market 321 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:37.960 a practice? Are they figure out how to really drive a better control of 322 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:41.799 their their online reputation? Are they're really look at just bringing New People in 323 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:45.000 the door and and keeping those patients coming back time after time and looking how 324 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:48.960 we segment our audience instead of looking at it based off of, you know, 325 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:52.880 what their medical specialty is or how large of a practice they're at, 326 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:57.119 trying to segment them based off of their kind of self identified problem statements. 327 00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:02.000 So we've been doing kind of drip campaign is based off of those affinity groups 328 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:04.240 and seeing some really cool success from it. How many segments, Jordan? 329 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:10.119 How many of those kind of little groups have you tried to go after? 330 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:12.720 I think there's three or four that we have where we kind of treat it 331 00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:17.640 as whenever we launch a new content piece or run a new campaign, we 332 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:19.920 try to associate it with one of I think we have about three main ones. 333 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:22.839 And then I think okay, forth, where it's just kind of the 334 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:26.519 this is a new topic that like maybe we just put out a super seasonal, 335 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:30.759 very like current topic kind of piece that doesn't necessarily fall somewhere else. 336 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.640 We need kind of a general what we refer to as like our practice growth 337 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:37.960 kind of affinity group and figuring out how do we push them into another affinity 338 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.440 group from there if we didn't get their full interest point. But I think 339 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.200 it's around three or four that we focus on right now to make sure we 340 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.440 get it right like that. Go back with me real quick for those that 341 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:52.599 would have been unfamiliar with the vice framework and just resay that so that we 342 00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:56.079 have a second time to think through what you what it is. So the 343 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:00.720 vice framework, I want to give all credit to Brian clevisy on my team, 344 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:03.880 kind of brought this to us as a way to start measuring all of 345 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.559 our AB testing. But vice is an acronym for Velocity, impact, confidence 346 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:12.200 and ease, which basically allows you to look at everything you're testing and figure 347 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:15.079 out for any test you want to run, you have to kind of give 348 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:19.359 it a score based off all of those criteria and based off of that, 349 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:22.039 you kind of have a hide a lower. You can figure out, okay, 350 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.640 this is something that we can do very quickly. We think it has 351 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:29.640 high impact. We're really confident that we that it's gonna drive some sort of 352 00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:32.440 so we're going to get some sort of results and it doesn't take us a 353 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:34.640 lot of heavy looking to get it done. That's a win, whereas other 354 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:37.400 things where it's like, Oh, you know, this would have a lot 355 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:40.880 of impact and really confident, but we can't do it quickly and it's not 356 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:44.359 going to be easy. Maybe we don't prioritize this right now. But we 357 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:48.039 start talking to marketing up so we start talking to our dever resources and figure 358 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:51.680 out how we start spinning up in the background as we get closer to it. 359 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:56.000 It's really like that triaging tool for us around all of these AV tests, 360 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:00.799 velocity, impact, confidence, EA's. That is a good reminder. 361 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.079 I like that one. Thank you for sharing that with us. Okay, 362 00:23:04.119 --> 00:23:10.119 so you're telling us that the testing that you're doing super valuable. That sort 363 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:14.400 of falls in the things you're actually doing right now. I wonder, moving 364 00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:19.359 and maybe looking out into the future, what are you trying to maybe the 365 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:25.440 next thing you're interested in? What are you actively hoping to improve moving forward 366 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:30.400 that maybe you're not testing yet? I want to go nuts on personalization. 367 00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:33.359 We're a MARQUETTO customer and there's it's one of those tools where, I know 368 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:37.319 there's so many things that we're not we're not using it for everything we could, 369 00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:41.720 whether it's because of time or resources, but we have a very robust 370 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:47.160 in how crm database of people that we know are in our target market that 371 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:48.680 we want to go after, and I think there's still a lot of work 372 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:53.640 we can do to kind of really boost in those email formats that are clearly 373 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:59.000 one too many, like a newsletter. How do we really elevate and step 374 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:02.839 up our game around what we're doing around personalization? How can we change? 375 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.039 You know, for us, for example, we do use a lot of 376 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:10.039 like kind of healthcare medical lifestyle imagery. Can we do things to make sure 377 00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:12.640 that the imagery were showing is different if we're if the person opening that email 378 00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:18.880 is an obi guine or a dentist or a pediatrist or an orthopedic surgeon. 379 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:21.720 And Yeah, what do we want to change about that? One thing that 380 00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:23.720 we were looking at doing, and then pause thanks to Covid is when we 381 00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:29.160 have our presence at trade shows, can we leverage their zip code information to 382 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:32.440 show extra modules that we're going to be at an upcoming trade shown that they 383 00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:36.640 can set up time to stop by our booth and have that intelligently show where, 384 00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:37.960 you know, if the shows in San Francisco, we don't need to 385 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.079 show that to someone who's going to email Miami necessarily, but if we know 386 00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:45.400 you're in the Greater Bay area, can we do that really smart personalization in 387 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.480 the vice kind of world. For us, unfortunately, that's not exactly in 388 00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:52.599 the ease category, so it hasn't been prioritized, but it's something we're really 389 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.440 eager to do and to do more with. HMM, good too. Things 390 00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:02.680 are okay. So let's talk about what tools apps because I want to go 391 00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:07.240 practical here as we start to wrap up on the house and how you're executing 392 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:11.400 the stuff that you guys are doing. What tools and APPs of you use 393 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:14.599 that you feel like are really helping your email campaigns? Right now, one 394 00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:18.000 that's become really popular with my team and we've all become big advocates for his 395 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:21.839 path factory. And if you're not familiar with path factory, it's this really 396 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:26.599 cool content engagement system that allows you to try to make content more bingeable. 397 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:29.960 I remember when I was on sales pictures with them originally, when we were 398 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.279 looking for a solution. They kind of position themselves as like we kind of 399 00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:37.359 want to be the Netflix of be to be content, where Netflix kind of 400 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:38.880 will give you the suggestions of like, go watch this next. Yeah, 401 00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:41.920 because one of the things we knew, and we would see this through our 402 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:45.720 own crm tracking and our marketing tracking, is that we would see all of 403 00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:49.759 these these one deals we got where someone was downloading a white paper a month 404 00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:53.519 from us, like every month for a year, and after all that we 405 00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:57.799 finally got the win off of it. We finally gotten that position for them 406 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:02.079 and it kind of open to this question for us of how do we kind 407 00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:04.279 of accelerate that process where we can put more content in front of you right 408 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:07.400 away? And what's cool about path factory is they have these content paths where 409 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.759 you can load up basically a playlist of content across a lot of different media 410 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:15.920 forms and just have them all in one playlist. So you can put a 411 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:19.160 pdfile in there, you can put video content, like we have our whisty 412 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:22.839 of videos living in there. You can even embed individual like web pages, 413 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:26.480 so like if there's a page that lives on your site, you can pull 414 00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:30.640 it straight in and it all lives in one contained space where you have analytics, 415 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:34.599 you have known versus unknown visitors. It integrates with our Marqutto instance, 416 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.119 so the data gets passed back and forth. We can see what the last 417 00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:40.839 asset they were reading on. And what I really like them is that they 418 00:26:40.839 --> 00:26:44.200 have kind of intelligent dating systems. All of us is be to be markers. 419 00:26:44.200 --> 00:26:45.480 Are Constantly having that fight of like do I gate it? Do I 420 00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:48.720 unate it? Does everyone have access to it? Like are there certain things 421 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:52.599 as a depend and what we liked about about path factory is the fact that 422 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:59.319 we could use intelligent gates and determine when and how we want to show that 423 00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:04.119 wall. So if someone was looking at our content for multiple minutes, we 424 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:07.039 could say hey, once they've been looking at things and actively engage on the 425 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:11.839 page for at least forty five seconds or exactly two minutes, that's when it 426 00:27:11.880 --> 00:27:15.359 that gate shows up and we get them to kind of keep going. Or 427 00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.319 we could say that, you know, all of these assets in the path 428 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.240 are free to view except for this one, like high value research piece, 429 00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:25.559 we do need to collect your information on and it allows us to be a 430 00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:27.519 lot smarter and a lot INTU more intelligent about how we do that. And 431 00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:33.400 their team does regular qbrs with US around how we're using taxonomy in their system 432 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.400 and what's working and what's not and figuring out how we can levered it more. 433 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.319 It's been a really popular tool for the team and, like anything we're 434 00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:42.720 working on, we're like, okay, we can, we use path factory 435 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:45.880 for this. To one of our executions that we did early on is, 436 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:48.880 and I feel I see a lot of people struggling this with with newsletters, 437 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.240 where you're like here's like the last five things we published. Well, you 438 00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:56.000 don't want someone to click off on the first content thing and then have to 439 00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:59.279 go back to their email to find something else because they can get distracted. 440 00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:03.240 The Nice thing is if we would have like our our February newsletter with five 441 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.880 content pieces, we would load those full, all five of those content pieces, 442 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:10.240 into one path and scroll no matter where you clicked in the email, 443 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:11.720 you hit the one you wanted, but everything else is right there and you 444 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.759 don't have to go back beforeth Nice. So it's been a really cool, 445 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:21.000 powerful tool for us and we're constantly looking for like how else do we leverage 446 00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:22.960 it? We're constantly like looking at what the new product releases are from them 447 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.200 and seeing if there's something else we can do. We played with actually building 448 00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:30.559 like you can build almost like a little mini microsite resource set are that like 449 00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:34.559 requires no coding work. So obviously, being in healthcare, we had a 450 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.599 lot of content we're putting out at a very start of covid and trying to 451 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.200 get this information out to our providers around hey, like here's how tell a 452 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:45.400 health building codes matter to you now and what you have to do, and 453 00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:48.480 we're able to kind of spin up a really quick resource hub with a lot 454 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:52.680 of content one place that normally would have taken like several Dev cycles and it 455 00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:56.599 was just kind of quick, easy done. Wow. Well, this episode's 456 00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:00.160 brought to you by path factory. Still apparently I'm now a brand ambassador and 457 00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:03.519 I didn't realize it, but I like it. I always love giving away 458 00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:07.640 some of those practical it just it's interesting to hear what tools are working, 459 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:11.359 it's true. And like and and we're still looking at directmail has become a 460 00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:15.119 big channel for us. It works really well for us and we're still looking 461 00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:18.480 at how we can better where a sendoso customer and how we can integrate sendoso 462 00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:22.240 into our email campaigns and as we do those offers that are aligned with funnel 463 00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:26.440 position, are there things that we can do to drive, you know, 464 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.480 those door open earth campaigns, those deal accelerator campaigns and have that tie into 465 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:33.319 email. So it's kind of every execution is all in one touch. So 466 00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:37.200 there's there's more we're testing there. I'm a big fan of the campaigns that 467 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.400 are very like a mix of like doing the campaigns where it's just a packets 468 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:42.920 and we shows up unexpectedly, versus like Hey, I want to send you 469 00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:47.720 something. Please opt in, because if you've gotten someone's opt into mailing you 470 00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:51.000 something like there's there's obviously much better avenue for our sales and to have a 471 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:56.400 conversation. All right, well, this has been fascinating. Oh, ask 472 00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:00.599 one more question and then, and I will will get your socials and ways 473 00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:04.519 for people to connect. If you were going to start from scratch, where 474 00:30:04.519 --> 00:30:08.039 would you begin? And I mean this in the way of clearly there's a 475 00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:11.839 million things you could do in marketing in general, but let's go email specific. 476 00:30:11.960 --> 00:30:15.920 Maybe there hasn't been a lot of strategy at a company and they bring 477 00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:21.440 Jordan in and he's going to start do an email. What are you focusing 478 00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:25.400 on? What's important to you? You're starting from scratch. Go I mean 479 00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:27.880 first and foremost as audience. Like there's nothing you can do with email market 480 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:32.119 until you really have a hand on who your audiences. So looking at what 481 00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:34.599 you're existing database is. Do you have consent? Have you been able to 482 00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:37.480 segment them? How much information do you have in there, and really making 483 00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:44.079 sure you have all the information you need to really build out smart segments without 484 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.160 going so far down the road that you're like hyper segmenting too early, too 485 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:52.039 fast, but being able to at least have some sort of like for us 486 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:53.759 it's in like a healthcare space, it's can I at least segment them by 487 00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:57.240 what medical specialty they are and how my language will change there. So that 488 00:30:57.319 --> 00:31:00.680 audience data. And if you don't have it, that's not a reason to 489 00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:03.839 panic. There's so many resource out there you can go to kind of append 490 00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.160 and scrub and add more to your database. After that is text act like 491 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:11.519 you need to have the right tool that's powerful enough to scale with you, 492 00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:14.839 as you know, your programs are going to scale. It's really easy for 493 00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:17.359 us as marketers just be like I need the cheap and easy one, that 494 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:22.039 I'll just be like my MVP product. But if you implement like a lower 495 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.880 lift, the lower strength email marketing tool, that gets the job done but 496 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:29.960 doesn't have everything, like all the bells and whistles you want, and then 497 00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:32.920 your team gets used to it. Now you not only have the debt on 498 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:37.200 your team of having to change over systems, but having everyone relearned something is 499 00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:41.000 such a pain. Going to lose some hair in that process. Oh God, 500 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:45.839 it's it's a nightmare, like whatever someone's like what like we're going through 501 00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:48.400 a merger right now and we have two sets of systems on both sides of 502 00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:53.359 the family and it's it's a very intentional discussion around which systems stay. How 503 00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:56.400 do we pick them? And a lot of it is involved in not only 504 00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:00.119 the feature step, but like how comfortable our team is and what they feel 505 00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:01.480 like they can and can't do with it right. And I guess the last 506 00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:06.079 thing is like find your inspiration, like figure out what your brand wants to 507 00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:08.079 look and feel. Like there's so many resources out there. There's so many 508 00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:13.200 blogs around the best of email campaigns, whether you're looking at, you know, 509 00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:15.400 trying to drive adoption, trying to go after people haven't logged into your 510 00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:20.799 platform in a while, news letters, pr whatever that looks like. There's 511 00:32:20.839 --> 00:32:22.839 so many great examples out there. Like you almost need to have a little 512 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:28.480 like pinterest mood board kind of moment for what you like and what works, 513 00:32:28.519 --> 00:32:31.599 and don't be limited by your vertical or like your place on the be Tobb 514 00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:36.599 Toc spectrum because, like, I'm always the biggest advocate of this, like, 515 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:38.920 we have to learn from the other sides of the aisle, especially on 516 00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:42.920 the B Tob side. Yeah, that that inspiration, that mood board, 517 00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:45.839 is so important because as you start doing things with email, you don't want 518 00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:49.880 to look sloppy. Your brand doesn't want to look all over the place. 519 00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:52.279 You need a little bit of cohesiveness. Even if you are going to be 520 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:57.000 testing and playing with things, try not to piss off your creative director in 521 00:32:57.000 --> 00:33:00.839 the process and good luck. But yeah, good look with that one. 522 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:05.839 Thanks, Jordan, for spending time with us here. Tell us a little 523 00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:08.400 bit more about patient pop and then where can we connect with you? So 524 00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:13.240 patient pop is the leader and practice growth. Our goal is to help independent 525 00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:17.160 private practices really grow and thrive and drive care for their communities. We do 526 00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:22.440 that through helping them with their website, their Seo, their reputation, marketing 527 00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:27.119 campaigns, tell a health billing solutions, mobile APPs, everything that healthcare proviators 528 00:33:27.160 --> 00:33:29.680 need. At the end of the day, we know that these health care 529 00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:34.200 proviators provide such an important service to our community and to our country, especially 530 00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:37.000 as we've all been living through covid. But they studied medicine, not marketing. 531 00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:40.480 They don't always know what they don't know. So our goals really help 532 00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:45.400 them build a growing, thriving business and be those leaders that they can rely 533 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.400 on to get the most out of their business. In terms of getting connected 534 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.000 with me, Linkedin is always the best channel. I think there's some really 535 00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:55.359 antiquated marketer Jordan twitter account that probably hasn't been touched in yours. Don't bother, 536 00:33:55.400 --> 00:33:59.440 but linkedin is probably the best channel to get a hold of me these 537 00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:02.960 days. Fantastic. Well, thanks for being on B Tob Growth. Thanks 538 00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:07.880 for sharing your wealth of wisdom on email marketing with us. We really appreciate 539 00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:12.960 it. Thanks so much for having its been a blast or always having insightful 540 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:16.039 conversations just like this one here on be tob growth. I would love to 541 00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:20.079 connect with you. You can connect with me on Linkedin as well. Just 542 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:22.559 search Benji Block. I'm always sorry about marketing business and life over there and 543 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:27.599 love having some back and forth. So feel free to reach out there. 544 00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:30.960 If you haven't subscribed to the show yet, do that wherever you're listening to 545 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:34.480 this, and it will be back real soon with another episode. Keep doing 546 00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:50.000 work. The matters BB growth is brought to you by the team at sweet 547 00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:52.239 fish media. Here at sweetfish, we produce podcasts for some of the most 548 00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:57.880 innovative brands in the world and we help them turn those podcasts into Microvideos, 549 00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:01.000 linkedin content, blog posts and more. We're on a mission to produce every 550 00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:09.599 leader's favorite show. Want more information, visit sweet PHISH MEDIACOM