What’s the most underrated tactic in B2B Marketing? | Original Research

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines of marketing. This is B two B growth. 2 00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:20.879 Hey, B two B marketing friends were back at it again, Benji here 3 00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:26.280 with James and Dan, and today we close out the first ever round of 4 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:32.200 original research. So this is episode eleven. And what we had done is 5 00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:36.640 we've asked A D B two B marketing leaders the same fifteen questions, compiled 6 00:00:36.679 --> 00:00:40.439 the answers, extracted the insights, and we're discussing it here on B two 7 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:45.520 B growth and providing the insights. So we actually kind of combined a couple 8 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:49.439 of questions into one episode. So after today that you're gonna know there's eleven 9 00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:55.240 original research episodes and there's only one left that we haven't tackled, and that 10 00:00:55.359 --> 00:01:00.759 is what's the most underrated tactic in B two B marketing? Before I get 11 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:04.599 to the answers there, I think it's interesting because we also asked the question 12 00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:10.400 around what's overrated? So overrated trends and B two B marketing And as a 13 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:15.319 refresher, what was mentioned there was A b M chatbots, trade shows, 14 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:19.480 virtual events, and webinars, but specifically that first one is fascinating to me. 15 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:22.920 A b M and here's why it's fascinating because that was the overrated, 16 00:01:23.359 --> 00:01:26.439 but the underrated And this is what we found far and away as the answer 17 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:34.799 was deep personal and fun marketing that aims to build relationships. So it's it's 18 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:38.480 laughable because it shows that people are doing a b M wrong in my opinion, 19 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:42.359 that they're thinking a b M is overrated, but they also think essentially 20 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:45.959 a b M is underrated, but they wouldn't call it that. I don't 21 00:01:46.000 --> 00:01:48.319 know. Does that stand out to you guys as I read that, because 22 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:52.239 I could, I just couldn't unsee it. Yeah, it's it's laughable to 23 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:55.799 me, like, oh no, Like the thing that's so underrated, This 24 00:01:55.879 --> 00:01:59.200 thing that more people need to be doing is building deep personal and you know, 25 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:02.680 fun marketing to build relationships. Well, what the hell do you think 26 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:07.280 a b M is? That's exactly what a b M is supposed to be. 27 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:08.759 I think the thing that people hate about a b M is when it's 28 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:13.759 sales driven a b M versus marketing driven a b M. You know, 29 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:15.800 you might want to call it account based selling, right, which is a 30 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:20.960 thing i AM started from account based selling and they moved to account based marketing. 31 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:24.840 When it's actual marketing, then it's fantastic. It works. I totally 32 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:29.280 agree, and I have a bad taste in my mouth from my sales experience 33 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:34.400 with account based selling, so I get it, and I actually understand why 34 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:38.560 I'm marketing. It could get a bad rep because we all know what spam 35 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:40.719 looks like, and they people feel like they're doing a b M when they're 36 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:46.240 not actually doing it. It's laughable because you can spot how we just have 37 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:49.719 got it all mixed up and it's all wrong. You just want more people 38 00:02:49.719 --> 00:02:53.960 to do it effectively and correctly, and so that's it's just funny. I'll 39 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:55.479 read some of the other answers. The thing that I think was, you 40 00:02:55.479 --> 00:03:02.840 know, deep personal and fun. I of getting that sentiment from this research. 41 00:03:04.599 --> 00:03:09.960 Fun is such an under valued thing, and I think we're evolving to 42 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:15.159 a place and B two B where enough of us are starting to get that 43 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:19.520 and really understand it that I just hope that it lifts, you know, 44 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:23.360 rising tide lifts all boats kind of thing. It's not necessarily Chris Walker's thing 45 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:27.599 to be fun. He's more like, you know, give you the insight, 46 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:30.560 give you the really well defined point of view that's based in research. 47 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:36.960 But he's hiring people to do fun. So when you when you follow Todd 48 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:40.400 Klausser, like his stuff is really fun and he's figured out like really funny 49 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:45.159 ways to articulate Chris's points of view. So you know, I don't know 50 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:49.280 that Dave Gearhart necessarily errs on the side of fun, but he's very like 51 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:53.199 it kind of irreverent and relaxed in the way he communicates, which is not 52 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:58.159 this kind of uptight way of that a lot of B two B brands feel 53 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:01.080 like they need to communicate. It's it's more natural, But I think there's 54 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:08.639 lots of room to play around fun. You're seeing Tim Davidson overt directive do 55 00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:12.599 this really well with with his videos on LinkedIn, And I just think that 56 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:16.519 when you talk about affinity building fun, I think it's it's it's almost like 57 00:04:16.519 --> 00:04:21.560 a cheat code. Now fun and funny, there's some nuance they're funny is 58 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:27.920 really freaking hard to pull off, like unless you have like some improv Like 59 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:30.920 a lot of people have taken improv classes, so you might have somebody on 60 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:33.560 your marketing team that's taken an improv class. Like it's harder to pull off. 61 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:38.600 But fun, I think it's just like hearted you're not taking yourself too 62 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:43.720 seriously. And I think if you allow that to filter through every headline you 63 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:46.920 write, every piece of marketing copy you create, Like I go through the 64 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.639 website and I'm like, Nope, that's not that's not fun enough, that's 65 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:54.839 not like, that's too stuffy, that sounds too formal. And because I'm 66 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:59.199 doing that from the tippity top of the organization, it has bled through the 67 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:02.680 entire company. But and I think that's been a massive brand differentiator for us, 68 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:08.959 is we just our brand feels like someone would actually be not this like 69 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:13.639 dressed up, uh corporate version of it. So I love seeing that in 70 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:15.639 these results. I like that you harped on fun for a second. I 71 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:18.839 want to go to deep and personal, the other two words that they use 72 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:21.839 their actually because I think you brought up two good examples of both. So 73 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:27.439 when I think of why people like Chris and Chris Walker, he's got the 74 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:30.519 deep insights and he's speaking right to where people are in their marketing. And 75 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:33.839 then when I think of personal, I think of Dave Gerhardt because he'll jump 76 00:05:33.879 --> 00:05:36.759 on a call and he'll just be super relaxed and he's all about community. 77 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:41.000 And so when you think about it. It's not necessarily that people are winning 78 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:44.480 by being all three at once. Some people are, probably, but I 79 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:47.240 actually think like, if you if there's a way that you're connecting with people 80 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:53.000 that's either really deep, really personal, or really fun. We just gave 81 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:56.240 examples of kind of all three and ways you could do that, And so 82 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:59.360 I'm glad you brought those guys up because I think that my brain was just 83 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:01.519 like drawing nins and seeing, like, how how that's kind of working. 84 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:05.439 Let me read a couple other answers before we jump to some of our recommendations 85 00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:10.959 based on the results. So we talked about the majority saying deep, personal, 86 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:15.399 and fun marketing that aims to build relationships. That's obviously condensing a hundred 87 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:18.920 answers into some kind of nice, pithy statement. The ways people were actually 88 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:26.279 saying it having fun with your brand, consistently great customer service, customer testimonials, 89 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:30.199 building community, things around email like personal email or email marketing. These 90 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:33.240 are underrated things for people. They're saying, Man, we if you place 91 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:38.480 focus here, you can you can win. SEO giving out. I thought 92 00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:41.680 this one was funny. I thought someone was preaching at us giving without any 93 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:47.839 return expectations like someone's wanting to aimen right there, internal marketing, organic social 94 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:51.439 link building, which we did an episode on link building a few months back, 95 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:55.639 high quality content, and then treating YouTube like a search engine, which 96 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:59.519 is actually, I think very very brilliant and more people need to be thinking 97 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:00.240 about that one. So I had to throw that in at the end. 98 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:03.600 Okay, So that gives you guys a more full picture of the list of 99 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:08.399 the types of responses that we heard. James, when you hear some of 100 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:11.839 these responses, let's jump to recommendations and why don't you kick us off? 101 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:16.000 Yeah, so you know, we we know from past research, from earlier 102 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:21.040 questions and this research that organic search is what most B two B marketing teams 103 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:26.600 are devoting their resources to, the bulk of their resources are going to organic 104 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:30.160 search based on what they've told us in this research. But it's interesting that 105 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:36.360 that is not necessarily aligned with what they're saying is underrated. So they're putting 106 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:42.360 all of their dollars into organic search, but then they're saying here like personal 107 00:07:42.439 --> 00:07:46.439 relationship building strategies, that's really what one out as as what they said was 108 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:50.519 the most underrated strategy, and Bob marketing, So that disconnected a little bit 109 00:07:50.519 --> 00:07:56.000 of like where the dollars are going versus what we actually think is valuable and 110 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:00.839 working was an interesting takeaway from me. I think that's probably be because it's 111 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:05.560 a lot easier to get buy in from senior executives in your company with organic 112 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:07.879 search, because it's like, hey, we invested this much and it's driving 113 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:11.120 x amount of traffic to our site. We convert this traffic at expercent, 114 00:08:11.240 --> 00:08:16.720 Like it's an easier story to tell. But I also think if you do 115 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:22.800 the fun relationship building things like that obviously maps to pipeline too, So maybe 116 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:26.319 it's a little bit tougher to tell that story. Internally, just trying to 117 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:30.120 like think a little bit about why there's a bit of a disconnect there, 118 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:33.320 but it definitely stood out to me. I'm obviously passionate about really, I 119 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:39.000 mean wrote an entire book content based networking about you know, content collaborations as 120 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:43.360 a means of building very strategic relationships that can transform your life. And so 121 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:50.159 huge fan of you know, personal touch and building friendship and connection. Uh 122 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:56.639 and not just kind of treating marketing. I don't know in this commodity content 123 00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:01.840 like look, I thing like let to actually be real humans, and it 124 00:09:01.879 --> 00:09:05.720 will actually work a whole lot better whenever you filter your marketing through that lens. 125 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.960 So that was that was my hot take. It's funny because I don't 126 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:13.279 think SCO needs to be separate from building relationship. I actually think you can 127 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:20.600 build relationship with your s c OH efforts by injecting the face and the voice 128 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:22.440 of your experts in the blog posts. And I actually mean it, like 129 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.919 literally, I think every single blog post should even have a short video. 130 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:33.720 It could be a simple talking head video of your expert like essentially given the 131 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:35.919 overview of the blog post, not like sitting there and reading the blog post, 132 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:39.559 but like giving their hot take on the same topic the blog post is 133 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:43.799 going at. Putting that right at the top of the article is not only 134 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:46.240 does it give you the bang for your buck over and YouTube, but it 135 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:50.519 enhances the article the time on page. It actually humanizes it. Especially if 136 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:54.240 the writer or the is writing according to the voice of the expert, or 137 00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:58.399 use that as a jumping off point for writing the article, you can actually 138 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:01.600 humanize it and make it good. Shoot. Just the other day I was 139 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:05.399 looking for um on Google. I was looking for how to inject a job 140 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:07.759 title into Google ad Words. I was trying to target people with the display 141 00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:11.559 network by job title, and it's not really simple on how to do that, 142 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:15.039 but I was googling trying to figure out how other people might have done 143 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:18.639 it or gotten close to it. I probably hit up three four articles trying 144 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:20.759 to figure it out. I can't remember any of them. Good job, 145 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:24.559 they all ranked for that key term. Don't remember any of them. It 146 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:26.279 would have been a lot easier if they put some videos and some faces of 147 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:30.039 some people, and maybe I would have watched the video, and I promised 148 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:33.080 if I would have watched the video and like read listened and seen their face, 149 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:37.080 it would be a lot easier to remember who they were. And I 150 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:39.759 might have gone back for some more if they put in some really good expertise, 151 00:10:39.799 --> 00:10:43.159 because I could tell that. It's easy to tell when they're in the 152 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:48.799 trenches doing it. Most CEO content isn't, is it? Yeah? Most 153 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:52.840 SEO stuff, you're hiring a writer that knows nothing about the subject. They're 154 00:10:52.919 --> 00:10:56.519 going and finding out, what are the ten articles that already ranked saying about 155 00:10:56.519 --> 00:11:01.600 this, And let's just make an amalgamation of what's already been created and regurgitate 156 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:05.039 it. So it's it's very clear that that there's not actually somebody internally at 157 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:09.080 this company that deeply understands it. B two B Growth will be right back 158 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:20.200 m M M Dan with the new B two B growth website. This is 159 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:22.799 kind of something we've talked about actually, right, like, this is something 160 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:28.120 long term that we're like interested in implementing more than just a suggestion that we 161 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:31.600 would make to you listeners about our like a blog that you have and trying 162 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:37.200 to I think this is honestly, I think it's the future of the way 163 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:43.240 people think about another personal touch And yeah, I mean that's that's sort of 164 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:46.679 the strategy we're going for, right absolutely, so as competitive as B two 165 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:52.200 B Marketing SEO is, after doing the research and looking at all the different 166 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:54.799 key terms for all the different categories around B two B marketing, I could 167 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:58.960 go to those articles and still think we can do better because again, most 168 00:12:00.000 --> 00:12:03.360 of them are written by writers who have a broad knowledge of marketing, and 169 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:07.000 some of them are really good. They're working for house spot writing these really 170 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:09.879 long articles. But honestly, you could just as an as someone who actually 171 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:13.879 does the stuff. You can tell it's written by somebody who doesn't. And 172 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:18.559 just like the classic example, I've probably given like fifteen times on the show. 173 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:22.480 But in case you're new, like if I'm a if I'm learning how 174 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:26.879 to run a marathon and your first tip is drink water, it's just not 175 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:30.879 helpful. You have to give something more substantial from a place of expertise, 176 00:12:31.159 --> 00:12:35.240 and that's where I think we can win. So I'm essentially going through and 177 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:39.399 doing the research on the keywords and then finding out what's the missing take As 178 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:43.799 I kind of glanced at all these different articles, what's missing what's not obvious 179 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:46.480 that these writers couldn't get at that I would know because I've read a lot 180 00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:50.120 of books on the topic. I've actually done the thing um, And of 181 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:52.879 course I haven't done everything, So I'll have to do some interviews to talk 182 00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:56.039 to the experts who have and injected their voice into the article. Easy hack. 183 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:00.000 If you don't actually have the expertise, just go interview the people who 184 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.840 have, start a podcast and then let that be the differentiator. And Google 185 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:09.279 is getting better and better at relying less on links to tell what the best 186 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:13.639 content is. You still have to write in a certain way, So I 187 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:16.960 won't go into how to format the article. But it's getting better and better 188 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:20.279 at finding out what is the most authoritative article on this topic and ranking that 189 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:26.360 number one. So we're advocates for as far as like the things that we 190 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:31.200 think are underrated, we're saying infuse fun. James has harped on that quite 191 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:33.320 a bit, even in your s c O strategy, think of ways that 192 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:37.600 you're gonna be hyper personal, connective face to it. I love both of 193 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:41.720 those so much. I think what I would say is to focus on the 194 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:46.720 substance and the delivery of your brand's message. I am shocked at companies that 195 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:52.440 have gotten to a certain scale without having extreme clarity around that. And I 196 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:54.840 know they're going to hit a ceiling at some point where behind closed doors they 197 00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:58.799 are pulling out their hair because they don't know why mass adoption isn't happening. 198 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:03.440 And I promise it's something around the substance and the delivery of your brand message. 199 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:07.679 There's something to that that, like looking for new ways to kind of 200 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.559 communicate honestly over communicate a small number of big ideas. That's what we've been 201 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:18.200 talking about a lot, right, Like where's the doc that shows what kind 202 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:22.200 of language we use? Where's the doc that shows like and outlines are brand 203 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:24.960 story in a way that we can kind of all get behind and we can 204 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:28.759 all chime in on those things and we can hit whether it's social or on 205 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:35.159 a website, like our our messaging is just crystal clear and the story that's 206 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:39.919 being told is crystal clear. There needs to be more harping and focus on 207 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:41.679 that. And a lot of times it's because marketing is like the last seat 208 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:45.240 at the table, right, like the sales team got all built out, 209 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.480 and marketing is like I'm over here. Can I suggest that we think more 210 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:54.039 about our brand story and our message like there's something there? And uh as 211 00:14:54.039 --> 00:15:00.000 actually was in the respondence as well, to focus on personal marketing over personalized 212 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:03.759 to marketing. So a few things here that I'll say say to that point, 213 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:09.080 But the suggestions from survey respondents were ideas like podcasts featuring your buyers his 214 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:13.399 guests, which we already brought that up. Video instead of written communication, 215 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:18.799 personal communication that has nothing to do with your product, which on that one 216 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.759 I would say, you better have a really really good hook. Then don't 217 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:26.840 be hitting people's inbox and expecting that just because I'm just like trying to chop 218 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:28.559 it up and like we're gonna be friends. Like that's going to be marked 219 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:31.000 to spam. But if you can do it right with the right hook, 220 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:35.879 that's a great way of getting your your brand message across. And then direct 221 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:39.639 engagements on social commenting instead of just posting. That's a great way of doing 222 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:43.320 this, this personal touch and getting your brand message across and the comments on 223 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:48.320 LinkedIn instead of just as a post and you're like, you know, trying 224 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.879 to just get the message out from your personal but you're doing it in the 225 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:56.840 comments on other people's stuff. So to me that that focus on substance and 226 00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:03.000 delivery is absolutely is absolutely crucial. James, anything, uh further you want 227 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:06.960 to kind of talk about on this, Yeah, So I mean I just 228 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:11.480 think if if you're trying to figure out you know, particularly like the deep 229 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:17.960 and personal I know, for us, this original research has just been invaluable 230 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:22.720 for us and actually hearing from our market being able to take it in and 231 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:26.039 then filter it through kind of how we think about the world of B two 232 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:32.440 B marketing, being informed by what the folks that we're trying to create content 233 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:37.600 for our thinking about it. And so I think having a structure for being 234 00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:42.399 able to collect insights consistently. For us, it's been this original research series. 235 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:45.200 But maybe it's not that. Maybe you want to go about it a 236 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:48.320 different way, But I think it allows you to build a relationship. So 237 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:52.720 whenever you are going out and actually doing conducting the original research, if you 238 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.960 did it the way we did with one on one interviews with folks, you're 239 00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:00.799 serving your niche in a in a very special way that honestly, not very 240 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.559 many, if any of your competitors are are doing it, and they're probably 241 00:17:03.599 --> 00:17:07.240 not doing it very well because it's freaking hard to do. But it gives 242 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:12.079 you these really well informed insights that can shape your points of view. And 243 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:15.599 we all know we harp on this all the time. If you don't have 244 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:19.599 a compelling point of view, you're just noise. You're you're not standing out 245 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:23.519 in the minds of your buyers. So I think formalizing a structure to collect 246 00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:27.480 insights like what we've done here, in whatever way that works for you, 247 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:32.160 I think will be a huge, huge benefit for you for many years to 248 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:36.960 come. I mean, we're literally like putting together our offer for the next 249 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:38.680 stage of our business, and I think it's gonna be what takes us from 250 00:17:38.680 --> 00:17:44.640 five million in revenue is some of the insights that we've gotten from this research 251 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:48.920 is literally informing how we develop the guarantee that is going to be baked into 252 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:53.200 our offer. Because we now know how our buyers are being measured by their 253 00:17:53.200 --> 00:17:56.079 CEO, so we know what keeps them up at night, we know what 254 00:17:56.119 --> 00:18:00.839 they care about, we know where the needle needs to move on what metric 255 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:04.319 because they just sat there and told us, and so has massive implications not 256 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:08.000 just on your POV development and your marketing message, your brand story, but 257 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.559 on the actual construction of your business, at least it has for us. 258 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:17.200 The other one is I think you know prioritize having fun with your brand on 259 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:21.279 social, not and beyond social. I mean, we're talking about we're about 260 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:25.039 to pull the trigger on a direct mail campaign that is incredibly fun. I 261 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:30.200 mean, arguably maybe a little bit too weird, but we'll see like when 262 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:33.960 it actually goes down, but it's so fun. I And because we market 263 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:37.519 to marketers, I hope what happens is they get this thing in the mail 264 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:38.720 and they're like, oh my gosh, this is so ridiculous. I have 265 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.200 to post about it on social and so it kind of bleeds back to social 266 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:48.039 but just infusing fun across the business and that includes internally, So building a 267 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:52.599 culture of fun internally. Even if you're the VP of marketing, you're not 268 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:55.559 the CEO obviously this if you're the CEO listening to this, you have a 269 00:18:55.640 --> 00:19:00.319 you have a big responsibility I think to carry the torch here and need from 270 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:03.000 the top in creating that fun atmosphere because it's going to attract people into your 271 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:07.559 organization, and what's happening internally naturally is going to bleed externally. So just 272 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:14.279 having a fun outward facing brand is one thing, but you want that to 273 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:18.240 be cultivated internally as well, and so doing cultural events and doing things like 274 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.200 in your Slack channel and getting creative with how you engage your employees I think 275 00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:26.279 is a big part of being able to actually have a genuine, fun outward 276 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:32.319 brand that that faces the market. So those are my thoughts as we as 277 00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:36.680 we look at this last piece of original research for this round. I know 278 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:40.279 one of the things I was most impressed with back last year when I got 279 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:44.440 hired on at sweet Fish was just like the presence on LinkedIn and the fun 280 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:48.559 that was happening over there and like the things that were being shared, and 281 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.680 no, Dan, you were big in in that time in that season of 282 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.279 just like caring a lot about the advocacy program. I know Emily is not 283 00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:59.480 here to speak for it, but maybe you could give us some insight there 284 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:03.000 on how that's been invaluable for us. You know, social media is a 285 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.079 lot more fun when you're doing it with other people because it's social media, 286 00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:11.799 right, So it's way more fun when you and all your coworkers are going 287 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:15.920 in on it. It doesn't feel like this loan journey. Everyone's building relationships 288 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:18.480 together. It's also ten times more effective for the business because of other voices. 289 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:23.559 But then I found out this other like employee advocate has this other secret 290 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:27.000 thing that happens when everyone's posting on behalf of a company, and it doesn't 291 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:32.000 even have to be posting the stuff about the company or even about the topic 292 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:34.400 the companies related to. They're just posting their own stuff, but they're all 293 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:40.200 affiliated with the company. But the secret thing that happens is that one person 294 00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:44.880 just starts interacting with one person, like one employee from the group. Like 295 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:48.279 Logan and I were going pretty hard this time last year and somebody might start 296 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:52.319 interacting with me, and because I interact interacted with Logan, it would pull 297 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:56.440 them into his feed and then he would interact with them, or they would 298 00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:59.559 interact with Logan, and then all of a sudden, because we're all interacting 299 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:03.160 with each other as a company, would just pull them into this like sweet 300 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:07.160 Fish vortex, and you're just seeing sweet Fish employees everywhere. And then the 301 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:12.440 amount of impressions, especially repeat impressions or priceless because people just felt like they 302 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:15.960 were seeing sweet Fish all over the place, and not just about podcasting, 303 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:19.880 but about a whole bunch of other fun things. Because we pushed employees to 304 00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:25.640 talk about what they're passionate about, which naturally lends the more interesting posts. 305 00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:27.400 And they might talking about going for a trail run, but one of our 306 00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:30.559 prospective buyers might be into trail running, and then bam, like there's a 307 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:34.400 connection there, and it's with sweet Fish over trail running. But now we've 308 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:40.359 just gained some affinity with them over something we couldn't have engineered ourselves. But 309 00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:41.880 when you put a bunch of employees out there, all of a sudden, 310 00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:47.599 it's covering all these passion topics that just puts more hooks in the water for 311 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:52.359 people to like like have shared affinity with. Yeah, it's it's so valuable 312 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.720 and it was so The nice side for me coming onto the sweet Fish team 313 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:59.160 was like I would go on to LinkedIn and then I would just see like 314 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:03.759 Dan Aames, Logan, Emily all these people, Like I didn't even have 315 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:06.759 to go find figure out who to connect with. I would just like their 316 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:08.960 comments at the top of my feet and just like pressing on them. Everybody 317 00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:12.920 that's commented connecting like hey, just you know, like it was just so 318 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:18.000 natural, right, And there's something to that side of it that is very 319 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:23.039 underrated because we all know there's like sellers on LinkedIn. We all know there's 320 00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:26.960 marketers that just push their thing and then like they don't really engage. But 321 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:30.599 there is a pocket of people that are really engaged, and I think it's 322 00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:36.160 underrated, uh, to use LinkedIn in in that way where you're just all 323 00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:41.720 actually engaged in posting about things that you're passionate about and not pushing people to 324 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:47.359 just push the company's next webinar in a repost. So the last thing that 325 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:51.880 I'll mentioned here because it's been brought to my attention, I guess lately, 326 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:55.759 like I've just been really passionate about internal and product marketing, and I think 327 00:22:55.799 --> 00:23:00.079 that that is underrated, specifically outside of the SAS were old because you're not 328 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:06.359 like with a SAS product, there's a lot of product marketing thoughts, right, 329 00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:11.039 but I think when you on both fronts, they're they're underrated. I'll 330 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:15.799 talk about internal first year. Do people in your company actually know and understand 331 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:21.880 what marketing is doing when they're when your company is behind that and the messaging, 332 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:25.559 like the momentum that it adds to the company as a whole, the 333 00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:30.599 way that other people around the organization can be advocates for what marketing is doing 334 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:33.079 right, Like they can push out the message too, instead of feeling like 335 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:37.759 their siloed over here and marketing is pushing and pumping this message externally that there's 336 00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:41.200 not really clarity around. The more clarity you can call to those types of 337 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.319 things, the better. In fact, so much so that we've actually just 338 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.000 started based on a LinkedIn post that we that James saw, I believe, 339 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:53.039 we're like, Okay, we're gonna just start doing a video weekly where we 340 00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:57.200 tell people what our marketing team is doing, because that can be really valuable 341 00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:00.359 to the rest of the organis zation for people to feel like, oh, 342 00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:06.559 I understand what we're trying and uh and these are the results we're seeing from 343 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:10.240 it. And Dan just made a video what yesterday to bring people include people 344 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:12.640 in on that, So any way you can do that. And then clearly 345 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:17.799 product marketing, being the people that are already bought in, that are using 346 00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.160 your service, your product, how do you continue to inform them on ways 347 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:26.039 that they can get better at work using your service, using what you provide. 348 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:30.319 That to me is like no one wants churn. We all want to 349 00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:34.000 lock in on like providing the maximum amount of value. We don't want to 350 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:37.759 just do that in our content before someone comes into our organization. We want 351 00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.400 to do that once. We want satisfied customers who are like, man, 352 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:45.599 I'm so glad that they're giving me an unfair advantage because I'm using their service 353 00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:49.920 or product. So thinking of ways that you can put right before their eyes, 354 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:53.160 whether it's a personal video, some of the stuff we've talked about in 355 00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:57.799 this and just showcasing ways they continue to improve. I believe, man, 356 00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:03.279 that is super super underrated, And again specifically outside of SASS, but as 357 00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:06.279 a whole. I think we can all continue to get better at it, 358 00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:11.440 so that I think wraps up our original research episode. Guys, I mean 359 00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:15.880 congratulations on will being eleven episodes in. Hopefully if you've been listening to this, 360 00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:18.640 I mean, if you're still listening to this, clearly you've found value 361 00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:22.720 here because you're eleven episodes deep. But I do want to give a special 362 00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:26.680 shout out to the hundred marketers who sat down with us, gave their time 363 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:32.960 answered these questions. It's been super helpful to us personally and to all of 364 00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:34.240 the listeners of B two B Growth, So we just want to say a 365 00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:38.000 huge thank you, And remember you can go to B two B Growth show 366 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:42.279 dot com slash original Research, you can re listen, and you can see 367 00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:48.599 a blog style kind of compilation of all of these original research episodes, so 368 00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:52.240 we push you to go do that. Thanks for listening, everybody. We'll 369 00:25:52.240 --> 00:26:07.400 be back real soon with another episode. If you enjoy today's show, hit 370 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:11.519 subscribe for more marketing goodness. And if you really enjoy today's show, take 371 00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:15.319 a second to rate and review the podcast on the platform you're listening to it 372 00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:19.640 on right now. If you really really enjoyed this, episode Share the Love 373 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:23.039 by texting it to a friend who would find it insightful. Thanks for listening, 374 00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:25.160 and thanks for sharing.