When Customers Want To Talk To A Human, with Samantha Stone

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:16.760 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth. This 2 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:21.199 is be tob growth coming to you from Austin, Texas. This is Benji 3 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:26.199 Block, and I am joined by Dan Sanchez from Nashville. What's going on, 4 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:31.000 Dan? I said or not answer this question to in a row, 5 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:33.719 and Dan's own a row to. I need to have an official answer to 6 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:37.320 this question, just like Dave Ramsey has the answer. How you doing better? 7 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:40.920 Not deserve yeah, like I'd probably now I have to ask Dan this 8 00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:44.960 like for future episodes, because it's become a thing to see if he's gonna 9 00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:49.399 go over three. Okay, Emily, you are joining us from Louisville, 10 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:54.159 Kentucky. Welcome to the show. Yeah, and okay. So if people 11 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:57.439 don't have context, let me tell you a little bit about who we are. 12 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:03.200 So I am the host of be tob growth and Dan is our director 13 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:06.799 of audience growth. He's also doing a lot with Mike are my club community 14 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:11.959 for be Tob podcasters, and emily is very active over on Linkedin and tick 15 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:15.519 tock and she's our creative content lead. So that gives you a little bit 16 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:19.000 of who we are. We're trying this model out we're and take about ten 17 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:22.879 minutes before we jump into a fullblown interview that we typically do here on BB 18 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:26.159 growth, and we're just talking about things we've seen. Maybe it's a book 19 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:30.799 we're reading or a Linkedin Post, a conversation or an ad. And Emily 20 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:34.200 is up today. So, Emily, what have you been paying attention to? 21 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:38.959 What something you saw recently that piqued your interest? Yeah, so rand 22 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:44.599 Fishkin published a post this week about marketing attribution and he made the claim that 23 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:49.120 it's counterproductive that marketer should trust their gut. So it's a pretty controversial I 24 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:53.319 think he really stirred up so heated arguments in his comments, because I also 25 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:57.599 read someone who wrote a post in response to that article that was saying, 26 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:00.959 like, I'll due respect, ran, but I totally disagree with this. 27 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:06.159 So I'd love to talk about both those things, starting with getting those thoughts 28 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:07.919 on what you think about his thesis, which is that, like his he 29 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:14.159 says his marketing actions aren't driven by provable attribution but by belief that conversions journeys 30 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:19.520 are long, complex and mostly unworthy of measurement investment. Okay, I have 31 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:22.240 a lot of thoughts on this. I'm sure Danda has a lot of thoughts 32 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:28.319 as well. I'll say I think he's right in that we over complicate it. 33 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:31.599 We know at this point that it is a complex journey with a lot 34 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:36.879 of stops along the journey and it's very hard to map out exactly how someone 35 00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:42.960 ends up doing whatever it becoming a buyer right. So I think he's right 36 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:46.360 in that. Should we not track it? I do think it's still worth 37 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:51.319 tracking. I just don't think we should like spend all of our time sweating 38 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:54.199 it out and wondering, like are we tracking it just right, like how 39 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:58.360 complex we want that to be? I don't know how I feel about that, 40 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:00.680 Dan. We're your initial thoughts. Honestly, I think he's wrong. 41 00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:05.680 Good, I think he's about halfway there. I think the answers in the 42 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:07.520 middle. Yes, but I don't think the whole trust your gut thing is 43 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:12.680 enough, because guts can often be wrong. I mean, Malcolm Gladwell wrote 44 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:15.879 a great book called he's wrote a lot of great books. Good luck, 45 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:17.280 I can't remember, but it was about a blink. Blink is the name 46 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:22.080 of the book about like we're gut decisions can be really good and we're gut 47 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:24.639 decisions can go very wrong. Like a quarterback has to be able to make 48 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:28.919 a gut decision and a half second about whether he's going to throw that thing, 49 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:30.120 what time he's going to throw it or if he's going to run. 50 00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:34.879 Sometimes right there's the play, but then there's the what happens in the two 51 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:38.240 seconds of when he says hike. You know, gut decisions can be really 52 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:43.319 helpful and honestly, marketers can build a good gut into around guiding their decisions 53 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:46.159 too. But I think throwing out all the Datas like a huge, huge 54 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:50.319 problem. I've always had the theory that, like, you should triangulate, 55 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:53.680 like if you've ever done any kind of like map or compass work, one 56 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:57.759 way to figure out where you are just try triangulate based on where a mountain 57 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:00.080 is or another sign post is. You can take two locations. This is 58 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:03.039 what radio towers do. Cell Towers do to figure out where your phone is, 59 00:04:03.080 --> 00:04:06.120 by the way, you take two radio towers and then you do, 60 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:09.879 you know, the trigonometry to figure out like, Oh, the lines meet 61 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:13.479 here, there for you're here. So I like to triangulate based on a 62 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:17.319 few different pieces of information. One is all the attribution data. It does 63 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:21.319 tell you something exactly. It does tell you. So another past the data 64 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:27.279 is surveys. What did customers tell you they're seeing? And then just you 65 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:30.920 having one to one conversations about their buying Urney, between those three pieces of 66 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:38.079 data, surveys, attribution data and one to one conversations, he usually get 67 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:41.399 not a full picture, but it's a better picture. But at the same 68 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:45.240 time then you make good gut decisions based on those three pieces of information. 69 00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:47.040 It's kind of like, you know, reading tea leaves as far as what's 70 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:50.920 actually going on. Still, even then, yeah, emily, emily, 71 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:55.600 bring us down that that wrote a little bit more on like what your initial 72 00:04:55.639 --> 00:04:59.000 thoughts were on what he was presenting. Yeah, well, I thought it 73 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:03.000 was just a really interesting take. I tend to agree with Dan in that 74 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:06.800 there are so many things that you can track to attribution and maybe not with 75 00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:12.480 a hundred percent accuracy, but I don't think you should say let's just not 76 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:15.040 let's just trust our gut and not worry about this. One point that rand 77 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:18.560 was making that that I do agree with was that he was saying if I 78 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:24.959 knew exactly how to attribute this piece of content or, you know, whatever 79 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:28.519 strategy I'm working on if I knew that that was what drew the customer in, 80 00:05:28.759 --> 00:05:31.680 like, would I change my content strategy? Would I stop putting out 81 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:34.759 this other content just to focus on this? And he said no, like 82 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:38.600 I would keep if I think there's value in this, I'm going to keep 83 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:43.240 publishing that. And I thought that was a good point, that there's going 84 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:47.959 to be something that resonates with everyone, and so you should definitely keep going 85 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:51.279 with what works. But I like, I'm going to keep putting out content 86 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:55.120 that I think it's helpful and valuable to people. And, you know, 87 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:57.959 I may never know that it's helpful to them because they may never say anything 88 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:00.720 about it, but I'm still going to could to work on that. You 89 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:03.000 know, I do think that's where be toob can get it wrong a little 90 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:06.519 bit, as we can go so data heavy that's like, Oh, this 91 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:11.240 is what works, so this is all we do right, versus we need 92 00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:15.720 to wake up to a larger conversation and go hey, like helpful, useful, 93 00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:20.879 those are words that also need to like come in and yeah, like 94 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:26.560 don't, don't just quit doing things and only focus on what the data tells 95 00:06:26.600 --> 00:06:29.199 you. And you'R I mean Dan, you're right to this in the middle 96 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:32.199 somewhere. The extremes get people talking, which is wonderful, and then the 97 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:36.240 reality is like, if you're way too data heavy, you're missing things, 98 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:41.360 and if you're way too in this camp of like and just throw it all 99 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:45.399 out, you're definitely missing things to and it's worth like. I like the 100 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:50.040 one on one conversations. That's a key piece that because they're the way that 101 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:54.959 someone even is thinking, like let me think back to how I first heard 102 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:58.160 about you. Oh, and you can ask follow up questions to have them 103 00:06:58.160 --> 00:07:01.040 go deeper, like you're going to get a lot of information that you wouldn't 104 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:04.120 get otherwise or even on a survey. Between the three sources of data in 105 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:09.680 personal interviews are by far the most reliable accurate. You don't have to do 106 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:12.519 too many of them. After ten of them, which is it's a lot 107 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:15.399 to do ten, but after ten of them usually have a pretty good day 108 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:17.759 idea of like how people are finding you, why they're picking you, and 109 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:21.120 lots of information. Let me give you a story real quick about why doesn't 110 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:25.079 work or why the gut thing doesn't work. I was working at a nonprofit 111 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:29.199 where we're as sending out a magazine to all the donors. My impression, 112 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:31.720 based on the data, was that it wasn't working. We weren't getting back 113 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:35.079 any donations because of this magazine and it wasn't like I had a pretty good 114 00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:39.319 impression that people are just throwing this thing away, right, because I I 115 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:42.680 get a lot of them. I throw them all away. But the person 116 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:45.959 that wanted to keep doing them because his face was on the magazine or on 117 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:48.839 the inside cover, he had a pretty good gut feeling that it was working 118 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:53.839 because maybe two or three people each magazine going out to thousands of people. 119 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:56.600 He would get a phone call being like Oh yeah, and I saw you 120 00:07:56.680 --> 00:08:00.639 on the magazine. Right in forming his gut, but incorrectly, because we 121 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:03.160 actually losing money on the magazine every single time. It was costing a lot 122 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:07.120 to print and send it to all the donors that may have given to the 123 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:13.360 ministry for totally different reasons than actually wanted to give to that particular ministry. 124 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:16.439 So I'm like, I think the gut was off because all the day I'm 125 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:18.759 getting from all the different ways I can measure this is saying that this is 126 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:22.600 losing money right and left. Well, in our pride is wrapped up in 127 00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:26.399 our gut to. So, like if you're not very aware of your pride 128 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:31.639 as a marketer, then your gut is probably off, because it's so easy 129 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:35.519 to get your identity and all that stuff wrapped up in it. In like 130 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:39.720 in you don't want that. That's where data can be a source of truth. 131 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:43.360 Not the source of truth, but a source. Emily Wood, bring 132 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:48.960 us in a little bit more to the response article, where it's like pushing 133 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:54.039 back on it. Any thoughts there or the things that you really liked about 134 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:58.000 that? Yeah, so the author of this post was pushing back same dark 135 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:01.039 funnels are often not as dark as people think. The ways to eliminate them 136 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:05.679 aren't wellknown and I think that Dan brought up great ways to eliminate them. 137 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:09.840 But it's true that a lot of times they are dark and there there are 138 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:15.039 not things that we can track. Big points in both the article and this 139 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:20.519 response they were talking about tools that you can use to track data and like 140 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:22.519 how expensive some tools are, and this guy was saying like well, I 141 00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:26.679 don't have the budget for this, and so I think that's a big part 142 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:28.720 of it too, is like what is your budget and what are you able 143 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:33.440 to do with that? So that's something to definitely think about. I think 144 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:37.039 there's a lot to be said for it doesn't have to be gut or or 145 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:41.440 data. It could be like the data could inform your gut feeling or prove 146 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:45.360 your gut feeling or I mean, I think I would definitely put more value 147 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.639 on the data, because I would even is get feeling like. And also 148 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:52.240 another point he brought up was like well, ran, you've been in you've 149 00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:54.840 been doing this for fifteen years. So not all of us have that same 150 00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:01.000 experience that you have and that same like longevity. So how do how do 151 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:05.200 we know that our guts are as good as a refined at making these calls? 152 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:09.879 You know? Hmm, I had an interview like the last couple weeks 153 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:13.000 with someone from constant contact. Well, sharp spring got bought out by constant 154 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:18.000 contact and they have this whole motion of like life cycle and they did, 155 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:22.919 you know, a lot of work, because it's literally what they're doing as 156 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:26.919 a business to like bring as much information to the customer journey as possible. 157 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.679 Like it's great there's more and more tools and resources being provided to the market 158 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:37.279 to do this. That's where I would say again, I hope people stay 159 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:43.120 in the middle somewhere, because I love that that is becoming the data is 160 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:46.960 becoming more and more like evident and it's needed. But I also I'm like 161 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:50.320 artsy enough where I'm like, okay, but keep trying stuff because we don't 162 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:56.120 know everything yet, and acting like the data is just going to be the 163 00:10:56.279 --> 00:11:01.679 thing that that tends to be something I'm constantly frustrated by, and be tob 164 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:05.480 is wheeling like way heavy into the data to the point where it's like where's 165 00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:07.480 the room for this to breathe in, something new to be created that's not 166 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:13.279 just being informed by the way the market is today? Any final thoughts? 167 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:16.720 Emily, this was a good one and people can go that and should go 168 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:20.960 read both articles, because I think that's it's really informative and the back and 169 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:24.279 forth is where the fun is too. Yeah, definitely. I think dark 170 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:30.200 social such a hot topic right now. That's it's worth looking into and going 171 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:33.879 back, and I would go back and find his post and then look in 172 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:37.279 the comments and see how you can get involved in that conversation or even just 173 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:41.159 learn from it, and also read the blog article, another fun one. 174 00:11:41.200 --> 00:11:45.960 I've really enjoyed this week testing out this new way of doing be to be 175 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:50.879 growth, least, just fun quick ten minute conversation stuff that we're seeing from 176 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:56.639 around the world of marketing. And if you've enjoyed what you've heard this week 177 00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:00.519 on be tob growth, let us know. We would love your feet back, 178 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:03.080 I guess, good or bad. I'd love to know what you liked 179 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:07.120 about this or things that you think we can continue to improve on. Talk 180 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:11.679 to us over on Linkedin. Can Find Dan, emily and I over there. 181 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:18.799 All right, let's jump into today's conversation. It's Friday and so for 182 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:22.840 those that are regulars around be to be growth, you'll know that we are 183 00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:26.559 in this cadence of sharing episodes from our archive on Friday's kind of a throwback 184 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:35.440 of sorts or replay, and today wanted to bring you an episode from a 185 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:39.559 series we did on customer experience. Ethan Butte, who is the chief of 186 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:43.960 angelist, that bomb bomb, sat down with Samantha Stone, founder and CMO 187 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:50.480 of the Marketing Advisory Agency, and they discussed communication, specifically how do we 188 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:56.000 communicate with customers and times of confusion, frustration and anxiety? Their conversation was 189 00:12:56.120 --> 00:13:01.240 held right as Covid nineteen was man it was just this time of mass, 190 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:07.039 confusion, frustration, anxiety. And wouldn't we all know that, even though 191 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:11.279 time has passed since that crisis was was right at the forefront, we still 192 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:16.000 are dealing with uncertain times and things are going on in the world, and 193 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:20.639 anyone who's been in business long enough and in marketing long enough knows confusion, 194 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:24.600 frustration and anxiety are things that we will deal with from time to time. 195 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.960 And how do we deal with, or how do we walk alongside rather custom 196 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:35.200 summers as they're going through these things as well? So when customers want to 197 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:39.919 talk to a human what do we do? That's what we are set to 198 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:45.960 tackle in today's conversation. I think you'll enjoy this, ethan butte chatting with 199 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:52.279 Samantha Stone. Let's jump in. Well, I am so honored to be 200 00:13:52.320 --> 00:13:56.879 your first return guest. I have so enjoyed our conversation last time and I'm 201 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:01.039 looking forward to having another one again today. Yeah, and a just a 202 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:05.000 quick note before couple things before we get going. First, you do such 203 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:09.120 a nice job of staying in touch and you were the, I guess, 204 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:16.080 unintentional creator of the episode with David Merriman Scott by sending a copy of fanoccracy 205 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:18.360 over and so I hope folks check that one out too. And you know, 206 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.279 before we get into customer experience, I think let's just set the scene 207 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:26.240 a little bit. We're recording this on Mark Sixteen of two thousand and twenty. 208 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:30.759 You're in Massachusetts, I'm in Colorado. Where are you right now with 209 00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:35.799 the coronavirus, covid nineteen situation? You know, I'm glad you brought that 210 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:37.840 up because we were talking about before the show. Ethan. I actually don't 211 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.919 think really we can talk about anything else. I think the reality is that 212 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:46.080 when there are moments of crisis like we're seeing today and it's widespread, it's 213 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:52.039 global, it's affecting everybody, to pretend it's normal course of business is just 214 00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:54.279 not realistic. People can't think about what they might eat in six months from 215 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.720 now or twelve months from now, but they thinking about right now is what 216 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:01.039 do I need tomorrow? Maybe do I need this year? I'm happy to 217 00:15:01.039 --> 00:15:05.840 share, sort of very transparently opening, a little bit about myself. I 218 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:13.159 have a lung health condition. The lung health condition makes me extremely vulnerable to 219 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:18.799 the COVID nineteen disease and virus because of some of the injections that I take 220 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.120 to treat that lung condition were suppress my immune system. In addition to that, 221 00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:28.120 should I get any respiratory infection in including this, I am likely to 222 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:33.320 be one of those people has a very, very severe reaction to that. 223 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:37.759 It's so what's like in my household right now is a lot of for cautions. 224 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:41.720 My poor son made the mistake of ordering Burger King through Grub Hub, 225 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:46.799 and here I am before you open the door. Tell them to leave it 226 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.759 on the ground. You've already paid. Here's gloves, pick up the bag. 227 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:52.799 You know I'm really we are, you know, all joking aside. 228 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:58.320 We are being very, very cautious right now, but we are going outside, 229 00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:03.080 we are living in guests. Were doing no travel, but we're communicating, 230 00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:04.960 and one of the great reasons I'm excited to be talking to you about 231 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:10.559 this during this time is that video is a way that we're staying connected, 232 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:14.039 not just at work but also with family. I have a mother and father 233 00:16:14.120 --> 00:16:18.919 who drove back from Florida after several weeks away and because of their age, 234 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:22.200 we're not visiting with them right now and it's really hard to not give my 235 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.759 mom and dad a great big hug, but we did do some video chatting. 236 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.559 That also made us feel just a little bit better that we're all connected 237 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:33.159 with each other. That's good. Yeah, there is no substitute for real 238 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:38.320 in person connection and nice warm hugs. They will come again, but it 239 00:16:38.360 --> 00:16:42.279 won't be any time very immediately. We did the same thing here. We 240 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:45.720 still have all the stores and restaurants are still open, although I know they're 241 00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:52.120 closing down elsewhere, and we're all working remotely at bombomb. And first all 242 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:53.840 the events and everything are canceled and we'll kind of get into some of the 243 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:57.039 consequences of that, I think, to the conversation. But one thing we 244 00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:02.279 did spin up within thirty six hours of saying yeah, that's a good idea, 245 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:07.559 let's do it, as we started offering bombomb absolutely free to all educators 246 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:11.599 so that they could stay facetoface with parents, students, peers and other people 247 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.839 important to that process. And as a parent whose son is hanging out at 248 00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:18.720 home right now, they just said two weeks. Basically they doubled spring break 249 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:22.119 and there they'll reassess, but there's not a chance he's going to go back 250 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:26.799 to school physically in the next you know, two weeks when this when this 251 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:30.119 initial period is over. So it's a really interesting time. It's highly, 252 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:36.240 highly fluid and as business operators and practitioners, I think we need to be, 253 00:17:36.279 --> 00:17:41.240 as you already offered, highly sensitive to where our customers and future customers 254 00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:44.960 are, and we're our employees are just kind of in a headspace and in 255 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.880 a legitimate, direct, immediate experience. So let's get into and let's start 256 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:52.880 where we started last time, so where we always start here, which is, 257 00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:55.160 you know, what thoughts do you have at a high level on on 258 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:56.519 customer experience? What does it mean to you? What are some of its 259 00:17:56.599 --> 00:18:03.279 characteristics? You know, for me customer experience there's a couple ways of looking 260 00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.880 at it. So one way of looking at is a structural with an organization. 261 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:11.759 What's the team that's responsible for creating an experience with our the people that 262 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:15.440 we sell to and that we serve, and that is, you know, 263 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:22.279 organizationally, done in many different ways by different types of organization. But fundamentally, 264 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:26.960 what customer experience really means? It's all the ways that we interact with 265 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:32.039 people. It's how they find out what we do and how they come to 266 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:34.720 our website. It's the tone of the conversations we have with them during a 267 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:38.920 sales process. It's when they we deliver the service to them. Right. 268 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:41.799 So whether, like me, I might go in and I might be running 269 00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:47.359 a workshop or I might be running a meeting, how I do that as 270 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:51.880 part of the customer experience. If I'm selling them a physical item, how 271 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:55.279 it's packaged as part of the customer service. When there's a problem, how 272 00:18:55.279 --> 00:19:02.839 we respond. It's it's everything about how the people we serve interact with us. 273 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:06.839 That's what customer experience is all about. I really like it. I 274 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:11.839 think, you know, it's a little bit righter cliche to refer to Simon 275 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.119 Sinex start with why, but you know this. You're in that middle layer 276 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:18.039 of how, in the second part of that in that how is something that 277 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:25.279 is so much more difficult to replicate or steal or a mimic than the what. 278 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:27.319 The what is very easy to mimic and in the how, I think, 279 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:33.960 is the you know what is the first really good chunk of differentiation in 280 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:37.319 the experience that we're creating. So you already said it's not business as usual, 281 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:41.559 and it is not. It's not life as usual either. Right now 282 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:44.880 in the United States or anywhere else on the globe. So just to kind 283 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:48.960 of get it going, what are some of the implications that you see immediately 284 00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:55.160 from a business standpoint of social distancing and, you know, going remote and 285 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:59.480 all the other consequences that were all experiencing right now? I'm glad that you 286 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:03.599 ask that question because there's a lot that's going on. So some of the 287 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.200 things that are affect marketers, for example, are I got in my facebook 288 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:12.519 feed a person who was promoting and in person event on March twenty four. 289 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:18.319 No, just no, stop right. So that was a really obviously means 290 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:21.400 well, you know, look, I could have chosen to just scroll on 291 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:26.519 past that advertisement not respond, but I actually had a really negative reaction to 292 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:30.400 it. Right. It felt very toned for me. I know that's not 293 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:33.039 the spirit. Technically they were targeting fewer than twenty five people, they were 294 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:37.440 abiding by the rule of law, but I didn't feel like they had my 295 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:41.119 best interest at heart. So we as market as a look at all the 296 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:45.319 things that we do on a day to day basis and how we're communicating and 297 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:49.599 make sure we're wearing a sensitive lens that acknowledges it. The other thing that 298 00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:53.240 we have to do is you have to realize that are the way we serve. 299 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:57.559 Our guidience is going to change. If I am someone who works in 300 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:03.039 an office and I'm now working remotely, do I have appropriate call routing? 301 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:06.480 For example, I have a friend who works for Legal Aid. She's an 302 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:10.680 amazing attorney who dedicates her life to service, and I said different will just 303 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:14.160 phone call people, like, don't show up to the hospital to meet them. 304 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:17.079 What are you doing? Like I get all this anxiety and she pointed 305 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:19.759 out to me that she can work from home, except the translation service that 306 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:25.240 allows her to communicate with people whose English is not their first or dominant language 307 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:29.319 is not working in her home phone. It only works at our office phone. 308 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:32.480 Right. So they'll solve for that. They'll fix that. But in 309 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:36.240 all of our businesses we have lots of things about what we do that we 310 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:40.920 have to think about. What happens when the people who can be remote our 311 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:44.920 remote. We also have to recognize that there's lots of things that can't be 312 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:48.440 done from home. You know, if you're a first responder, if you're 313 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:52.279 a healthcare worker, if you are working for an essential city service, if 314 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:55.720 you're keeping our water and our power running, if you work in a grocery 315 00:21:55.799 --> 00:22:00.680 store, God bless you because you have this incredible, difficult job and a 316 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:06.200 stressful situation and we need our food supply chain did not be interrupted. Right. 317 00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:10.039 We don't think about all the stuff that has to happen there. So 318 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:15.279 we as leaders need to acknowledge the fear that people have around that, the 319 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.519 concerns their family members have around that. We need to do what we can 320 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:22.359 to protect them. So for those of us who have a service that could 321 00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:26.519 maybe protect them, we should be making that readily available. We've seen some 322 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:30.839 great things. You gave an example or earlier of providing edge caters video access 323 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:37.319 at no cost. We've seen other people make other kinds of conciliation. We 324 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:40.759 also need to take care of security. The reality is when people are working 325 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:45.599 more remotely or they're working and more social distance situations, they are maybe not 326 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:51.559 following all the secure protocols or filing sending files back and forth an email and 327 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:55.079 they're throwing things and, you know, portable drives and they're exposing us. 328 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:56.880 They don't have the same networks and firewall. So we need to make sure 329 00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.200 that we're thinking about the infrastructor to protect the data of the people that we're 330 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:06.279 serving in this situation, and so sort of the threat about all of this 331 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:11.200 is simply using our good sense to think through the scenarios that our customers are 332 00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:15.960 going through, to be sensitive to how we communicate and to be consistent and 333 00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:19.759 transparent about what we are doing with our customers. And then, on the 334 00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:23.519 flip side, we have to accept and be ready for an entourage of people 335 00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:30.640 who are trying to cancel reservations, reschedule meetings, transform whole conferences into virtual 336 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:37.839 events, who are just not sure how to make all these bits and pieces 337 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:41.240 because we've never gone through something like this on a global scale. I've certainly 338 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:45.279 done this and crisis management, for example in New Orleans when we had those, 339 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:48.839 you know, terrible hurricanes, or we had flooding in Texas last year, 340 00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:52.359 but when we think about the scale of this, it's unlike anything that 341 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:59.160 we've done, and so we have to be ready to have questions that we 342 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:03.039 don't have time to answer be asked and we have to be patient with it. 343 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:07.759 These are the times we're talking to human is probably better than talking to 344 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:11.519 a machine. Right if I'm worried, I need a I need rubbing alcohol. 345 00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:15.680 The clean my medical equipment. This came up on a facebook group recently. 346 00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:19.240 And before I go to the store and I send somebody there get my 347 00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:23.079 rubbing allcle I want to make sure it's in stock and I call the store, 348 00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:26.839 I need to talk to someone who's going to be able to tell me 349 00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:30.440 whether it's in stock, tell me whether I'm going to be able to get 350 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:33.799 it in stock, maybe recommend places where we could have it be put on 351 00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:40.559 a weight list, whatever those things. Maybe, and come together and interact 352 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:45.400 with people in a way that is sensitive to even if we're feel like business 353 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:48.200 is normal, because I'm sit in the same office I sat in three weeks 354 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:52.200 ago and six weeks ago, it's not normal for the people who are calling 355 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:55.480 me and asking me questions. Yeah, really, really good. There's a 356 00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:59.720 lot there. The couple things I want to touch on. One is, 357 00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:03.920 you know, when you talk about transparency, that couple words came to mind 358 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:08.079 there, and it's visibility and accessibility, and so you know all this is 359 00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:11.599 up in the air. Is this two weeks? Is it a month? 360 00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.680 Is it eight weeks? Is a number that was just thrown out like it's 361 00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:19.519 so, so fluid, and so I think keeping communication channels open for our 362 00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:23.559 team members right as we try to figure out what is something that we didn't 363 00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:26.519 anticipate. We need to close this loop, we need to fix this. 364 00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:30.200 You give a number of really good examples of just work flow issues that we 365 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:36.279 need to pay attention to and and then you also teat up something that I 366 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:40.720 spend a lot of time over the weekend doing, which is UN undoing all 367 00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:45.079 of my travel plans. I have a high school junior at our home and 368 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.359 we know we have with all. He's a school kid, love school, 369 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:52.400 high performer. So we're like we had a bunch of college tours scheduled between 370 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.960 now and next fall and you know, so we've been to a few schools 371 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:57.559 already, but the first big trip here over spring break, of course, 372 00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:00.640 is canceled. So we had to cancel personal plans, professional plans, etcetera. 373 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:03.759 And so I found myself in a zone that I know you have a 374 00:26:03.799 --> 00:26:10.480 lot to recommend an offer around, which is the communication channels that are available 375 00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:12.440 to us as consumers. And so you know, I was on I was 376 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:17.000 any emails, responding to some emails, I was in some mobile APPS, 377 00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.400 I was on some websites, some was front facing some I was logged into 378 00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:25.200 my own account and I was on the telephone intermittently across these experiences and in 379 00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:30.079 one case they took me from an email where to cancel. They still wanted 380 00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:36.480 to charge me fifty percent of the charge and then I called and they said, 381 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:37.920 Oh, okay, no problem at all, you don't have to pay 382 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:41.039 that. will send you another email. Take a look at it. This 383 00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:45.519 for a rental car. Take a look at it and just reply and see 384 00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:48.880 what your circumstances are and then we'll just use that on file and then just 385 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:52.160 canceled. Well, turns out at even work out that way. So at 386 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:55.640 some point I need to call him back because their reply to my email, 387 00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.920 which said entire trip is canceled. The schools are not accepting us to visit 388 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.599 the campus anymore. We're just not doing the trip. It's not the prudent 389 00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:06.160 thing to do and we can't even execute the whole reason we're going in the 390 00:27:06.160 --> 00:27:08.559 first place. So we would like a you know, a refund, and 391 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:14.160 the reply was well, there isn't. There is not a national mandate not 392 00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:18.400 to travel, so we can't do that right now. You know, this 393 00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:23.240 is like be still my heart, like I look I'm sensitive and I understand 394 00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:32.680 that there are financially vulnerable companies out there that these changes impact and I believe 395 00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:37.200 that our government and our communities and our customers and our partners need to find 396 00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:41.680 a way to keep people solving through this. Having said all of that, 397 00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:48.039 they answer and solution is not to piss off every customer. Even they shouldn't 398 00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:52.319 even have made you ask the question of sending the emails. We are in 399 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:59.000 lockdown as a globe right now across much of the world, certainly across the 400 00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:03.680 United States and the campuses. Every college student right now is on force break. 401 00:28:03.720 --> 00:28:06.759 My son tomorrow is going to empty his dorm because even though they have 402 00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:10.000 an officially said it's going to be six or eight weeks, it's I think 403 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:14.119 everything indicates it's going to be and we don't want to have to go back. 404 00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:15.920 If school reopens, will bring a stuff back. I'll like to have 405 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:19.799 that problem right, but we're going to go empty it. At least we 406 00:28:19.880 --> 00:28:25.480 can get his books and things for online learning. So they the right customer 407 00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:30.079 service and customer experience should have been to proactively communicate hate with you. We 408 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:36.440 suspect your travel plans have changed. If we're not correct. Please let us 409 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:41.279 know. So a default, that the default, should be the most likely 410 00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.960 scenario somebody's going through and they shouldn't make it go through the hoop of saying 411 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.880 why your plans have changed, because we know the answer to that question. 412 00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:55.759 Your plans of change because everything is in a slowdown mode as we as a 413 00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:59.839 country respond. Now, I don't blame the individual person who had to read 414 00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:03.359 that email. Clearly they haven't been given a corporate policy that gives them the 415 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.319 fortitude to address that. They could have a policy that says, at this 416 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:10.400 point, we actually can't afford to do refunds and maybe we're not in a 417 00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:14.119 financial situation to do that. Then they should have been should at least give 418 00:29:14.119 --> 00:29:21.559 you a credit towards future, or they should have some dialog with you about 419 00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:26.200 that situation. But they defaulted wrong. They asked you to jump through hoops 420 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:32.480 incorrectly. They have a policy that's going to make you uncomfortable and unsatisfied with 421 00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:37.160 it and instead of delivering bad news to you and a conversation where at least 422 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:41.559 the empathy can come through, they didn't do it. For example, I 423 00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.079 canceled my housekeeper. Let me tell you, this was a painful decision for 424 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.759 me to make. I'm in a situation where I could Ford to pay her, 425 00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:52.000 so I said that I'm going to just then mow you the money, 426 00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:56.079 at least for a couple of times. She's an individual and I'm fortunate and 427 00:29:56.119 --> 00:30:00.039 grateful to be able to say that I can afford that. But, but, 428 00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:02.960 if I had to call and cancel, I wouldn't have sent her a 429 00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:06.839 text message saying I'm canceling and I'm sorry I can't pay you. I would 430 00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:10.119 have picked up the phone and, at a minimum, left of voice mail 431 00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:17.279 where she could hear my voice and hear my sincerity in understand that I feel 432 00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:19.480 bad about it. We can't always do the thing that's going to make the 433 00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:23.640 customer on the other side happy, but we can do the thing that makes 434 00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:30.440 them feel we're human and empathetic to the situation we find ourselves in. Yeah, 435 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.000 just allow them to feel like they've been heard and that they're appreciated. 436 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:37.759 I see you, I understand your circumstance. I want to meet you there. 437 00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:41.240 Let's talk about what we can do. I thought the airlines in general 438 00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:45.359 did a very nice job of the two things you specifically recommended, which is 439 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:48.920 default to what is the most likely situation, which, by the way, 440 00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:52.720 this applies at all times, not just in times of crisis, but default 441 00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:57.200 to what the expectation is and then make it really, really easy. All 442 00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:00.640 of them are hey and and I forget which one, because I had flight 443 00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:04.680 schedule. I mean United Guy, on points mostly, but because they fly 444 00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:08.279 out of Colorado Springs. But you know, I had flights on Delta and 445 00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:11.640 American also schedule, just so I could go direct out of Colorado Springs, 446 00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:15.680 which is not a major airport. So I mix up my vendors and they 447 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:19.960 all did a really nice job of proactive communication. And I forget which one 448 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:22.799 it was, but they said, Hey, don't call us, here's the 449 00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:26.880 deal. You know, you have no obligations right now. You have up 450 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:33.160 until the end of the year to reschedule. You know the value of this 451 00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:36.759 flight and it's like so they're like it's really kind of this whole flat in 452 00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:40.680 the curve thing, but you know, in a very acute customer service situation, 453 00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:42.680 is like, don't call us right now. You're going to hate it, 454 00:31:42.759 --> 00:31:45.799 we're going to hate it. We got your back. Don't worry about 455 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:48.839 it. You have months to figure it out and so what now? What 456 00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:52.599 I need to do is make a little spreadsheet to say, you know all 457 00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:56.079 the flights I canceled in a little open credit, because they're spread across various 458 00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:59.799 APPS and websites. But they did both of those things really, really well. 459 00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:04.000 The perfect example of how to use technology, because what they needed to 460 00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:08.000 free up their staff for was the person who says my son is stuck in 461 00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:13.160 London and I need to get my kid home. Help me do that. 462 00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:16.720 So look, technology can help us communicate to the default step and they made 463 00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:22.920 it very easy and Airy vampathetic so that the when the things that are emotional, 464 00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:25.200 things that I need to respond to, I can make sure that my 465 00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:30.119 phone staff is available for them to be able to I agree. I think 466 00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:34.000 the airlines overall have done a nice job. My son reluctantly was on a 467 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:37.839 flight this week. It was a short domestic flight from Rochester. I was 468 00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:43.039 really uncomfortable situation, but I needed to get them home and I was comforted 469 00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:46.200 by talking to the airline about the cleaning thing. So sure, I got 470 00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:51.960 the email everybody else got, but given my scenario, I also called the 471 00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:55.400 local airport and I asked them to give me, you know, sort of 472 00:32:55.400 --> 00:32:59.599 the lay of the land and I felt they were honest and sincere and well 473 00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:01.759 trained, and because we could have had the option of him renting a car 474 00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:06.079 and driving back or something like that. So I think you're right. There 475 00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:10.519 are so much good happening right now and so much that I've actually been pleasantly 476 00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:16.799 surprised by. But there have been pockets of opportunists that are sort of feeding 477 00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:22.000 in to the frenzy and the fear and the discomfort or just making us go 478 00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.559 through a whole bunch of extra hoops. Nobody needs the extra stress right now. 479 00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:30.079 Let's make it easier on ourselves. Yeah, so let's talk about one 480 00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:34.400 of the channels that I know you have some thoughts on, which is chat, 481 00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:37.839 and we have kind of two ways to go about that, live chat 482 00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:40.240 and chat bots. You know, last time we talked we talked about the 483 00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:46.279 transparency of automation and AI. Although a lot of cover ground episode fourteen, 484 00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:49.519 go back and listen to it, is really, really good. So we 485 00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:52.160 won't won't do too much of it again. But you know this idea that 486 00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:55.599 so much of what we're calling ai is actually automation in these channels. You 487 00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:59.319 don't have what you have on the phone or even what you have with videos, 488 00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:02.319 kind of this empathetic thing. We talked about transparency and not acting as 489 00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:06.599 if you're a person if you're actually about. But you know, in this 490 00:34:06.680 --> 00:34:10.840 context of our conversation here today, what do you think about the chat experience 491 00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:15.159 today as regards the customer experience? You know, first of all, I 492 00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:21.039 think the chattocks were, in both live and, you know, ai driven, 493 00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:23.199 our part of the tool kit that we should be using. I think 494 00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:30.480 they're incredibly useful. I did a study where we talked to about five hundred 495 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:31.639 and fifty. Thing is where the number at it up, but over five 496 00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:37.519 hundred consumers and we very specifically ask them, when they want to talk to 497 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:42.559 a machine when they don't, what their expectations are. We gave them scenarios 498 00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:45.559 and asked them to say, if you read these three scenarios, how would 499 00:34:45.599 --> 00:34:47.360 it change? Would you buy from that person again? How do you what 500 00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:52.320 do you think about their brand? And it was startlinglingly clear. For every 501 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:59.199 day operational things, talking to a machine instead of a person is perfectly fine 502 00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:01.000 and often preferred. I want to know if you're open. I want to 503 00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:05.199 know, you know, what's the balance on an account. What time is 504 00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:07.119 that? A pointment I scheduled again. Right. I don't actually need to 505 00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:09.760 have a back and forth, I want to ask the question to get it 506 00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:17.119 answered. When I have a moment of concern, upset frustration, do not 507 00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:22.599 give me to a machine. It actually makes it significantly worse and it doesn't 508 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:25.960 just make it significantly worse in the moment that I'm in right now, it 509 00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:30.800 makes me not want to interact with your brand prior the other thing that it's 510 00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:37.440 surfaced very clearly is don't pretend your human if you're a machine, because when 511 00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:42.880 we get into scenarios where I can tell that the transper they were more the 512 00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:49.199 same bad chat experience that was clearly a little robot symbol and like not a 513 00:35:49.239 --> 00:35:53.840 real person, as it look like a picture of a person. Right, 514 00:35:53.880 --> 00:36:00.599 the same exact chat script was way more negatively perceived in the long term relationship 515 00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:02.119 I want to have with the brand. When it was I thought it was 516 00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:06.079 a human or were pretending to be a human. Then when you were just 517 00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:09.039 clear that's robot. I forgive the robots ignorance because it's a robot and I'm 518 00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:15.039 okay with that. forgodness. It also became very clear. We need escalation 519 00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:20.679 pattern. So it's particularly in scenarios like this where we all have questions. 520 00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:24.199 You're running around trying to figure out how I'm going to respond to events being 521 00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:28.079 canceled and I'm trying to figure out where I'm supposed to be. Your get 522 00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:32.360 home from wherever I am or adjust a meeting for wherever I am. When 523 00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:36.199 I hit a steck point, I need to be able to talk to an 524 00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:42.880 actual human being and our automated technology needs ways to I identify that I'm getting 525 00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:46.599 that point when we put that chap bought up and we simply say here have 526 00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:51.360 a you know, here's the phone number to call. It's one of the 527 00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:58.880 most frustrating things that can happen because you're asking me to leave the medium I 528 00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:02.599 chose to use, in this case a chat window, and go find my 529 00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:08.559 phone, dial a number and reget in a queue for somebody to answer my 530 00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:14.719 phone call. And even if the phone call gets resolves my issue, we've 531 00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:20.480 created extra steps for someone at a moment that's the worst time to create ex 532 00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:24.400 extra work for them. Yeah, putting the burden on the customer, even 533 00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:28.559 the perceived burden in some cases really not that much. More work. But 534 00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:31.760 if it feels that way, the customers experience is the experience. The customers 535 00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:36.519 experience is a matter of fact. We need to respect it and appreciate it. 536 00:37:36.519 --> 00:37:39.400 In this channel switching situation, I did a solo episode just based on 537 00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:45.079 some of the learnings of the first chapter of the effortless experience by Matt Dixon 538 00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:49.320 in a couple other folks, and that's one of the being treated like a 539 00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:53.519 number and channel switching are two of the most frustrating things people can experience. 540 00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:57.559 Really interesting survey results, by the way, love that you're just doing that 541 00:37:57.639 --> 00:38:01.440 work so in unleash possible. You advocated for video like extensively. I forget 542 00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:06.280 which chapter it was somewhere toward the end and of course we already touched on 543 00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:08.760 it a little bit here, and I think what it does is takes a 544 00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:13.239 little bit of that what we were talking about, that empathy that can be 545 00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:16.239 delivered through a voicemail or through a phone call, and just steps it up 546 00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:22.039 to another level. That if we are sincere in our message, whether it's 547 00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:25.480 I'm really sorry for your experience or I'm so excited for you or congratulations, 548 00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:30.480 you just hit a milestone or whatever, the message is that if we're sincere 549 00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:34.559 in it, that our bodies, in our faces and our voices all tell 550 00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:38.280 it in a way that just simply can't be communicated any better except live in 551 00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:44.079 person. And so, in light of our conversation here, maybe set up 552 00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:47.679 your your initial ideas about video, whether as expressed in the unleash possible or 553 00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:52.119 since you wrote the book and in the context of what we're talking about here 554 00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:58.719 today. Yeah, you know, I really believe that video is critically important 555 00:38:58.760 --> 00:39:05.400 because not only can you better see how I'm responding to something or I'd project 556 00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:10.480 my surprise, my sincere apologies, my excitement, my you know, information, 557 00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:14.119 but equally, as a person I can see the other person on the 558 00:39:14.119 --> 00:39:17.239 other side and I can read their body language and I can respond and adjust 559 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:21.199 to what I'm seeing on the screen, just kind of like if I was 560 00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:22.440 in a room with a person. It's a little bit different, but it 561 00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:29.760 proxies it very well. So I think video is critically valuable tool and we 562 00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:32.440 use it in one on one conversations. I'd by default turn my camera on 563 00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:37.320 for pretty much every conversation. There's a couple exception. Sometimes bandwidth is you 564 00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:40.119 is an issue for a day or a moment, and that's fine. I 565 00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:44.719 do do a podcast that's audio only because that medium is meant for someone while 566 00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:47.840 they're doing something else, like driving and and and that's okay, but the 567 00:39:49.039 --> 00:39:52.440 my default is video on. But we also have to remember that video is 568 00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:58.760 a really powerful tool for all different kinds of content, long form content, 569 00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:04.119 teaching something, interacting with someone. It's a great tool for direct mail to 570 00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:07.679 open something up and actually have a video welcome message instead of just another message. 571 00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:13.440 And there's just a whole bunch of things that happen. One of the 572 00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:20.079 things we have to remember and remind ourselves of is that video doesn't have to 573 00:40:20.119 --> 00:40:24.320 be perfect and it doesn't have to be always polished. You know, I 574 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:29.199 have on a scarf and I threw some lipstick on because I love you, 575 00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:31.920 Ethan, and I knew you're going to be videotaping me right, but I'm 576 00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:37.559 still comfortable and I'm still not overly prepped. I didn't have hair and makeup 577 00:40:37.639 --> 00:40:40.719 come in do this today right, and I don't need to, because the 578 00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:45.440 whole point of video is actually to make people comfortable with each other and it 579 00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:50.760 is a unique medium by which we can do that and if you were not 580 00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:53.480 yourself on the video. Whether it's a direct mail piece you're sending out, 581 00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:58.519 whether it's a little note from a salesperson, whether it's a high five to 582 00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:01.599 somebody did a great job, it doesn't matter. So just you know, 583 00:41:01.639 --> 00:41:07.719 we just got to get good at being comfortable and I'm always thinking about what 584 00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:10.400 can I do for video. I'll give you a really good example of how 585 00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:15.239 I used video to affect a business outcome for myself. Actually, not that 586 00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:20.559 long ago we ran a marketing strategy workshop my business partner and I, and 587 00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:23.360 it was the first in person workshop that we done for a classroom set and 588 00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:29.679 we were in workshops for individual clients all the time and I've taught big workshops 589 00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:32.199 at conferences that other people have hosted off and off, and it was the 590 00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:37.559 first time that we'd done it and we assumed the math that half the people 591 00:41:37.599 --> 00:41:43.519 who registered wouldn't show up right like kind of typical event type of thing. 592 00:41:43.559 --> 00:41:50.199 That happened. But I was determined to break that trend and so I I 593 00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:53.559 think the thing that gives us the most it was a good class, so 594 00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:57.239 I'll say that. And I think people wanted to come and we had a 595 00:41:57.280 --> 00:41:59.559 good venue and we had a good material. So we did all of that. 596 00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:01.440 But even when you do that you still have drop off. So what 597 00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:06.480 we did is, as soon as somebody registered, I sent a video message 598 00:42:06.519 --> 00:42:10.320 to them that said Hey, congratulations, so excited you came. Here's what 599 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:14.639 to expect for the day. You don't need to prep and I you know, 600 00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:17.119 and it's and it's like if they don't show up, they've disappointed me 601 00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:22.559 a little bit right and then and then the day before the event we said 602 00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:29.719 Hey, can't wait to see you tomorrow and gave some other like little stuff 603 00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:35.519 and we had twenty. I think we ended up having twenty people registered. 604 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:39.159 One person got called away on and out of town trip last minute for an 605 00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:44.599 urgent worker and couldn't show up. Every other and and they sent this hugely 606 00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:50.199 apologetic I can't be their node. Every other person came and came on time 607 00:42:50.440 --> 00:42:53.920 and stayed the entire time or good. But it's not just because we did 608 00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:59.920 a good workshop. We took the time to connect with people who had registered 609 00:42:59.960 --> 00:43:06.119 in this very intimate way and I really truly believe that the video played an 610 00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:12.440 important role and getting that show rate to be higher than it might otherwise have 611 00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:15.920 been. It's really good. That's the social reciprocity pieces. is a really 612 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:20.039 good one, in an undervalued one, but you referred to it twice. 613 00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:24.480 The first one is this idea that they're not just letting down some organization that 614 00:43:24.519 --> 00:43:28.960 has an email signature and some details at a typed out email. They're letting 615 00:43:28.960 --> 00:43:31.079 down Samantha. I can't let her down and in the case that I have 616 00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:35.880 to, this is a second part, I'm going to be profusely apologetic, 617 00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:40.119 whereas otherwise it's just so much more difficult to disappoint or reject a human than 618 00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:45.519 it is, you know, a wall of faceless digital text, and we've 619 00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:50.599 seen this too, by the way, using video to increase show rates on 620 00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:52.960 appointment set demos, set in these other things, you know, not just 621 00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:57.519 a full day workshop, but even like lighter weight stuff, even zoom calls 622 00:43:57.519 --> 00:44:00.000 in those types of things. We had a pretty large one of the top 623 00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:06.400 ten franchises in the United States. Their franchise sales team uses bombomb and they 624 00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:10.559 were able to increase show rates from fifty six to seventy eight percent on one 625 00:44:10.599 --> 00:44:13.920 of their initial calls. And so can you just like walk that? I've 626 00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:20.239 just think about a traditional like sales funnel. generically speaking, the ability to 627 00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:23.280 take the initial conversation and set the appointment is one thing, and then to 628 00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:27.079 actually have the appointment shown to be able to bump by, you know, 629 00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:30.280 twenty plus points the show rates on that call. To me, just think 630 00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:34.400 about all the downstream consequences and all it is is what what we've already observed, 631 00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:37.159 which is it's just human connection. It's just this. Yeah, you 632 00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:39.920 know, I can't let her down or I feel more connected or I feel 633 00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:45.519 more trust toward the situation. I feel more clear about what to expect because 634 00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:50.639 it's been communicated to me, not through my own tone of reading this. 635 00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:53.760 This otherwise like toneless text. I mean really, really good writer can infuse 636 00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:58.079 text with a little bit of tone that people can feel, not just read 637 00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:02.280 and think, but actually feel video. You just start feeling immediately. Yeah, 638 00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:06.559 you know, it's a perfect example of how to apply this at scale, 639 00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:08.360 and that's a huge difference in your business. Think about that. It's 640 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:13.719 twenty percent plus swing and the people who show up for demo like that's big 641 00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:16.400 and I do think social reciprocity, as we've been talking about, as part 642 00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:20.440 of it. I also think it shows it's going to be worth my time 643 00:45:20.599 --> 00:45:23.559 because they're saying things that are relevant. I'm likely to maybe skip through and 644 00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:28.360 read an email like theistic uptate. I probably scan. I also sent text, 645 00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:30.239 by the way, because not everybody watches videos, so we did that. 646 00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:36.960 But also I think there's this component of I'm important. They took time 647 00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:42.639 to send me a message. I'm I'm important to them, and so therefore 648 00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:45.639 there's a piece of this. I'm going to want to go there, I'm 649 00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:47.079 going to want to see this and it's going to be worth my time there 650 00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:52.000 articulate they have something relevant for me. So I love the application of applying 651 00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:55.280 to show rates for Demos. I think it can be used for all kinds 652 00:45:55.320 --> 00:46:00.440 of thing. Ethan is the best set this. Every conversation with Ethan Big 653 00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:06.400 milestoness if he always sends the the most gracious of videos afterwards out and is 654 00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:12.159 a real living example of how to build that connection with people that we may 655 00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:15.079 never have been in a room with before, but I can still feel like 656 00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:19.599 it right. Yeah, I appreciate you seeing that in a really good point 657 00:46:19.719 --> 00:46:22.519 on that. This, this gift of your time and attention, is something 658 00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:23.800 that can't be fake. Like no one knows how long it took you to 659 00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:28.920 write that email, but everyone knows the you spent forty two seconds explaining that 660 00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:31.559 thing just for like when it's you know, you can do evergreen or you 661 00:46:31.559 --> 00:46:36.239 can do truly personally, do a truly personal that is just the ultimate like 662 00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:38.199 this gift of my time and attention. Now, no one's going to say 663 00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:42.440 that consciously and say, my Gosh, she took forty two seconds out of 664 00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:45.480 her day to say that, but I do get all the time. Thank 665 00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:49.039 you so much for taking the time to answer my question in a video right 666 00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:52.199 and it's like I just saved myself like five or ten minutes. It would 667 00:46:52.199 --> 00:46:53.880 have taken me a lot longer to explain it by typing it all out. 668 00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:58.880 So there's a number of really, really good benefits there. At the risk 669 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:02.800 of time and at the risk of throwing a complete curveball into the conversation. 670 00:47:04.280 --> 00:47:07.760 It was recently, I'm going to do it anyway. I love you, 671 00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:14.159 Ethan. Do it good. It was recently International Women's Day and on Linkedin 672 00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:16.679 you gave a shout out to several women that you've worked with and really respect. 673 00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:22.039 You. Help give away some free subscriptions to innovation women and I just 674 00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:25.519 wanted a quick take from you on, as someone who is obviously built a 675 00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:30.519 successful career as a woman, like why in two thousand and twenty are we 676 00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:37.119 still in this gender inequality situation or and or what are some seeds of hopes? 677 00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:40.400 Just like give me a quick take on what's the scene and where are 678 00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:45.719 we going and what are you encouraged by? Yeah, you know, I 679 00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:50.079 wish I could tell you why we're still in this situation, because the reality 680 00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:55.400 is in my entire lifetime laws have been in effect to make this relatively easy 681 00:47:55.400 --> 00:47:59.679 in parts of the world that I work. That is not true in large 682 00:47:59.719 --> 00:48:05.400 parts of the world. There are still real inequalities in legal structure, in 683 00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:08.719 the rights that a woman has versus a man in big parts of the world, 684 00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:14.519 and so part of what holds woman back is cultural and legal context that 685 00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:17.400 we take for granted in the United States and in a lot of European countries 686 00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:21.679 and and many places around the world. We just take it for granted the 687 00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:24.960 exist. They don't in many places. So that's a fundamental infrastructure that needs 688 00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:31.280 to be fixed more daytoday. Operationally oriented, I think we don't do a 689 00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:37.559 good job of rewarding people of different approaches to solving things. I'll be quite 690 00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:43.519 candid. As a woman, I quickly got promoted in my career and I 691 00:48:43.639 --> 00:48:49.639 quickly had success and I didn't hit a lot of direct glass ceilings. But 692 00:48:49.719 --> 00:48:52.920 I believe there's a real reason for it, and I believe the reason for 693 00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:58.320 it is I acted like a man. I did the things in the environment 694 00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:00.519 and now not all men act the same the don't you know, everybody, 695 00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:06.119 don't interpret that. What I mean was I was really assertive about what I 696 00:49:06.159 --> 00:49:14.559 wanted. I was super aggressive about forcing myself into conversations. I'm not known 697 00:49:14.559 --> 00:49:17.519 for sitting back and being quiet. That makes me a strong woman, but 698 00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:22.239 that doesn't make me every woman. There are strong women like that and we, 699 00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:24.920 as communities and as business leaders, yet to be back to listening to 700 00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:30.360 all voices, including quiet of voices. So you know, I think there's 701 00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:32.360 any quality, not just in men and women. I think there's any quality 702 00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:37.719 and a whole bunch of context around different thought process and different things. But 703 00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:45.199 the female and versus male and equality is robust inconsistent because all of the infrastructure 704 00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:49.280 to address it isn't there. We're not taught the same things, we're not 705 00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:53.480 supported in the same way and it's real and it exists today. So I 706 00:49:53.519 --> 00:49:59.400 do have hope. I personally have had a very wonderful journey, but it 707 00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:04.079 hasn't always been easy and I've had to I've been a working mother with young 708 00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:07.440 children and the first day I started a job, the president of the company 709 00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:10.119 looked at me and said I did not want to hire you, and I 710 00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:15.639 didn't want to not hire me because of my skills or my experience. I 711 00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:19.239 was a perfect fit. They didn't want to hire me because I had an 712 00:50:19.239 --> 00:50:22.920 infant and I lived forty five minutes from the office that we were required to 713 00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:25.199 be in and they were worried that I would have to leave to pick up 714 00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:30.920 my kid at daycare. And literally, that's the exact conversation we had. 715 00:50:30.920 --> 00:50:36.400 I shouldn't that should not have been a conversation and I was very fortunate. 716 00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:38.599 We made a decision as a family. My husband chose to stay home with 717 00:50:38.599 --> 00:50:45.920 our kids and he took the childcare issue off the table for this particular organization. 718 00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:47.639 But I shouldn't have had to. It was the right choice for our 719 00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:52.079 family anyways. But a lot of people don't have a choice to make, 720 00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:53.519 or they make that choice because they feel like they have to, and so 721 00:50:53.599 --> 00:51:00.519 I think just fundamentally in equity still exists. We have to take an active 722 00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:07.719 stand to change that, and days like International Women's Day gives us the opportunity 723 00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:13.000 to surface those challenges and to move forward and correct them. I love seeing 724 00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:17.599 all these programs that are designed to elevate female voices. I love seeing more 725 00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:24.159 young girls follow pursuits and sciences and Maths and other things that have traditionally been 726 00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:29.119 very male dominated. And, quite frankly, it's not just the right thing 727 00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:30.320 to do, we have to do it, and I'll give you a really 728 00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:37.400 real example. We have artificial intelligence technology that is building algorithms that fundamentally decides 729 00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:40.960 what we see what we don't. So Hugh would target we don't if a 730 00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:45.920 woman's perspective and the only people who are coding that are men and it's only 731 00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:52.119 trained and they will inherently miss things about a whole a half of the world's 732 00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:57.159 population, just like if it's all young people versus old people, or if 733 00:51:57.199 --> 00:52:00.800 it's all people of one culture versus a different culture. We have to have 734 00:52:00.880 --> 00:52:07.639 that kind of diversity. So if we don't do things to encourage young women 735 00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:09.920 to move into these sciences, we're going to find ourselves in some very tricky 736 00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:15.239 and dangerous situations. That are not because people are evil, it's just because 737 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:20.119 we all have the context that we have. And so I am excited and 738 00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:25.239 I am optimistic because the fact that we're even having this conversation even would never 739 00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:30.320 have happened twenty years ago and any of my conversations. So I see that 740 00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:35.159 as a positive sign, but there's still a lot of work to do good. 741 00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:38.079 I'm really glad that I asked. I think a couple things, and 742 00:52:38.199 --> 00:52:43.239 it's see something, say something. I think that's one way that anyone listening 743 00:52:43.239 --> 00:52:47.280 to this in a workplace environment can start to make the cultural change when it 744 00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:52.519 like it's one thing for that gentleman that you were referring to earlier to think 745 00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:57.039 these things, but to say it openly says something about the culture inside that 746 00:52:57.159 --> 00:53:04.199 organization. And so when you see something borderline or obviously inappropriate, just say 747 00:53:04.199 --> 00:53:07.239 something. Question the person who said it, question the person who did it, 748 00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:08.840 just make them think twice. To create this warness doesn't have to be 749 00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:15.400 highly confrontational, but letting things fly. We're all complicit in in the consequences 750 00:53:15.480 --> 00:53:21.599 of letting things fly, and I do think that just general awareness of I 751 00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:25.840 mean it's hard because it's unconscious bias, and so making the unconscious conscious, 752 00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:30.599 you know, is a little bit oxymoronic or a contradiction in terms or something, 753 00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:34.760 but the more aware that we are, the better off we are. 754 00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:37.840 I am going to even though you'd already did this once, you think Jeff 755 00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:42.800 Holling for opening up an early stage of your career in a really welcoming way, 756 00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:49.239 and you gave a shout out to the at bbmx for accommodating your health 757 00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:52.119 condition that you described at the top of this conversation. So we're just a 758 00:53:52.119 --> 00:53:53.599 minute. I'm going to ask you to answer both of those questions again, 759 00:53:53.639 --> 00:53:59.199 because it's been like ten months since we've talked. But but before we do, 760 00:53:59.320 --> 00:54:01.559 for folks who are listening again, be sure to give a listen to 761 00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:07.880 episode fourteen, balancing automation, AI and human relationships with Samantha and, if 762 00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:12.719 you want, check out episode sixty three, creating fans through human connection with 763 00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:15.440 David Merman Scott. Again. One of the reasons that that, I mean 764 00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:19.559 it was not this transactional, but this is the way that just, you 765 00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:22.400 know, being thoughtful and gracious works out. You were kind enough to think 766 00:54:22.400 --> 00:54:25.480 of me when his book Fan accracy released. You had a sign copy sent 767 00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:29.679 to me and I was like, I like her, you're just reminding me 768 00:54:29.880 --> 00:54:31.280 like I need to. I need to talk to her again and we had 769 00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:36.760 been in communication anyway. But Anyway, episode fourteen and episode sixty three. 770 00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:38.679 If you enjoyed this one, you'll like that one too. So, Samantha, 771 00:54:38.679 --> 00:54:43.840 as we wind down, take a minute here to think or mention someone 772 00:54:43.840 --> 00:54:47.360 who's had a positive impact on your life or your career. Oh Gosh, 773 00:54:47.519 --> 00:54:52.400 I'm so fortunate. There have been so many amazing and wonderful people. I 774 00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:59.079 won't thank Jeff Howe again just because holy sorry, that's okay. Will spread 775 00:54:59.079 --> 00:55:02.440 the love a little bit around that. But you know, one of the 776 00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:07.440 people that I I'd love to recognize as Katie Martel. I'm not sure that 777 00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:10.559 she would think of herself in this way. So if you care a lot 778 00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:16.360 about equality for women or truce and advertising in general, a lot of things, 779 00:55:16.440 --> 00:55:22.599 Katie does some amazing work around pandering and cause marketing and and calls out 780 00:55:22.599 --> 00:55:27.760 a lot of companies who do it wrong. And she also happened to edit 781 00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:30.800 my book. She also happens to be a person that I've been fortunate to 782 00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:36.039 know for a lot of years and I I really have to give her credit 783 00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:43.039 because she makes me want to be a better marketer every day and she is 784 00:55:43.079 --> 00:55:45.599 the kind of voice that we need out in the world. You know, 785 00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:51.280 it's easy to pay to their turn things pink on International Women's Day. That 786 00:55:51.559 --> 00:55:54.679 you know that probably isn't going to serve your business well. And she holds 787 00:55:54.719 --> 00:55:59.679 us all accountable and I think we need more of Katie mortels in the world, 788 00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:05.400 and so I'm really deeply grateful for her inspiration but also, very practically, 789 00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:07.000 for, you know, her help. I'm not sure that unleash possible 790 00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:13.000 could have ever happened without Katie. She and I. She kept me honest, 791 00:56:13.159 --> 00:56:16.559 she kept me true to what I wanted to say. She knew me 792 00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:21.920 well enough to know when I was going astray from my my purpose and pulled 793 00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:25.760 me back. And anybody that can make you look smart and talented deserves a 794 00:56:25.760 --> 00:56:30.440 big hi five and she certainly gets a shout out from me for that. 795 00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:35.679 Awesome and we are all fortunate if we have one or more people in our 796 00:56:35.679 --> 00:56:37.760 lives that make us want to be better today than we were yesterday. Just 797 00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:42.000 to get that like I have that inside me, but to get that support 798 00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:45.639 is so helpful from other people. So I love hearing you describe her as 799 00:56:45.639 --> 00:56:49.280 someone who makes you want to be a better marketer. How about a company 800 00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:53.000 that you really respect for the experience that they deliver for you as a customer? 801 00:56:54.800 --> 00:57:04.039 That's an excellent question. I've had some really good experiences recently and I've 802 00:57:04.039 --> 00:57:07.760 had some really bad experiences recently. I'll give you one of the examples that 803 00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:12.880 I that I like to use because I think it really is demonstrating of a 804 00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:17.400 commit with this company has made to their customers. wayfarer. So I ordered 805 00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:21.440 chairs from my office when my office was coming and I was being a little 806 00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:24.239 obsessive about everything because this was his brand new workspace for me and I wanted 807 00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:30.840 everything to be perfect. And the chairs came and I didn't love them. 808 00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:34.559 They didn't look the way I thought they would and I was super disappointed in 809 00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:37.400 them and they looked a little damaged and you know, I called up wayfarer 810 00:57:37.400 --> 00:57:40.679 and I'm prepared to sort of go to battle over why I need to return 811 00:57:40.760 --> 00:57:45.920 these chairs and I want different not only did they like graciously, with no 812 00:57:46.039 --> 00:57:51.280 hesitation, say no problem, we'll take back the chairs. I'm sorry you 813 00:57:51.280 --> 00:57:54.800 have that experience. You were looking at these other chair designs that are very 814 00:57:54.800 --> 00:57:59.920 similar that were out of stock. Would you actually like those instead of replacing 815 00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:04.480 the one that looked a little damage when I got them? Like yes, 816 00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:07.480 so good. Through all this and I'm excited and I'm like okay, so 817 00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:09.920 how exactly do I box these back up and like get them to you? 818 00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:12.960 It's a chair, are you know? I'm not going to stuff and a 819 00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:15.199 nimble open take it to coals to be returned, like I might do with 820 00:58:15.239 --> 00:58:20.000 some of my Amazon things. You're like, Nope, you got someplace you 821 00:58:20.000 --> 00:58:22.960 can donate them. Like I'm sure I can find the Dona. They're like 822 00:58:23.079 --> 00:58:29.840 keep the chairs, donate them. So they made the whole experience positive. 823 00:58:29.840 --> 00:58:31.719 For mean, not only did I get replacement chairs that I'm in love with 824 00:58:31.880 --> 00:58:37.079 and I just adore, they also let me keep the old chairs and not 825 00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:40.039 have the hassle of returning them, and I got to donate them to something 826 00:58:40.079 --> 00:58:45.239 that I feel good about. So all this stuff came together in a way 827 00:58:45.320 --> 00:58:49.000 that I think is wonderful, and I will say that I think wayfiar's phone 828 00:58:49.039 --> 00:58:52.159 service has this kind of cared I don't think they've translated it well to their 829 00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:59.440 email services and their chat services. So I caution you. Know that experience 830 00:58:59.480 --> 00:59:04.440 with them, but on the phone their team is phenomenal and I really value 831 00:59:04.480 --> 00:59:07.440 and I keep shopping their knowing that I'm going to be able to have this 832 00:59:07.519 --> 00:59:10.199 kind of positive experience should another issue arise, which doesn't. Most of the 833 00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:14.440 things I'd buy them are great, but occasionally it does happen and I know 834 00:59:14.480 --> 00:59:16.039 they're going to take care of me. It's really good. I mean, 835 00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:20.519 I can't imagine. I always worry about that, even on a much smaller 836 00:59:20.519 --> 00:59:22.519 I mean, and you reference that, like I worry about that with the 837 00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:27.159 smaller thing, like should I save this box? You know it's got a 838 00:59:27.159 --> 00:59:30.039 one year warranty. I live in a very, very small house, so 839 00:59:30.159 --> 00:59:34.199 saving boxes so that I can rebox something is not on the top of our 840 00:59:34.239 --> 00:59:37.920 list. It's like straight to recycling. And so anyway, I love what 841 00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:40.639 they did for you there, Samantha. This has been great. I wish 842 00:59:40.679 --> 00:59:46.400 you good health and continued success, especially through this really interesting and odd window 843 00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:50.599 that were in. But folks want to catch up with you or they want 844 00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:53.480 to check out unleash possible or anything else where we send people to follow up 845 00:59:53.480 --> 00:59:57.119 on this conversation. Yeah, thank you. I'm going to give you that 846 00:59:57.159 --> 00:59:59.559 information, but I want to say one thing before we wrap them. I 847 00:59:59.559 --> 01:00:04.440 hope you MND Ethan, but as we're going through this amazing point of uncertainty, 848 01:00:04.519 --> 01:00:07.360 we don't have all the answers to all the questions that are going to 849 01:00:07.400 --> 01:00:09.679 add be asked of us and that we're going to ask ourselves. And the 850 01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:14.559 right thing to do here is just acknowledge the uncertainty, be as open and 851 01:00:14.599 --> 01:00:19.960 transparent you can be. Don't share false information and don't make promises you can't 852 01:00:20.119 --> 01:00:22.239 keep. This is the really hard one. Don't say we're going to do 853 01:00:22.280 --> 01:00:28.079 something that we not certain that we can do. So it's okay to say 854 01:00:28.119 --> 01:00:30.880 I don't know. It's okay to say we're going to try. I've been 855 01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:35.159 seeing a lot of those positive communications, so please do that. I love 856 01:00:35.320 --> 01:00:38.440 for new readers of unleash possible. Every you know, week I get new 857 01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:43.840 messages from people with with information and comments and questions, and there's nothing more 858 01:00:43.880 --> 01:00:47.400 rewarding than that. And least possible is available on Amazon, both as an 859 01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:52.360 audio book as well as a regular, good old fashioned physical book. What's 860 01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:55.320 I like? Still the touch and feel. Ethan's got the copy there, 861 01:00:55.360 --> 01:01:00.760 which I love, and Paul Schmitt, my narrator, did an amazing job 862 01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:04.719 narrating for me even one little sentence about being pregnant, which you know, 863 01:01:04.719 --> 01:01:07.239 that's a whole nother story and we can talk about another time. If you'd 864 01:01:07.239 --> 01:01:10.280 like to get ahold of me, please do. I'm on Linkedin, I'm 865 01:01:10.360 --> 01:01:15.320 on twitter. It's Samantha Stone, really accessible. My email address is Samantha 866 01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:22.239 Dutstone at Marketing Advisory Networkcom, and I really I give that out freely because 867 01:01:22.239 --> 01:01:28.880 I want people to reach out and ask questions and there's just nothing better than 868 01:01:28.920 --> 01:01:32.800 helping your idea has come to life in a particular organization. So look forward 869 01:01:32.840 --> 01:01:37.159 to meeting all your listeners. Awesome. It's funny. I used to be 870 01:01:37.199 --> 01:01:39.559 a little bit tentative about giving out my email address as I guessed on in 871 01:01:39.679 --> 01:01:45.280 conversations like these, and then you realize someone a if they made it this 872 01:01:45.400 --> 01:01:49.239 far, they're obviously into it and be if they're really into it, I 873 01:01:49.239 --> 01:01:52.480 want to talk to them right it's a privilege, and so anyway, you 874 01:01:52.480 --> 01:01:57.119 can also reach me Ethan etch an at Bombombcom. Hit me up on Linkedin, 875 01:01:57.239 --> 01:02:01.039 Ethan Butte, and I everything that Samantha just said I will include. 876 01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:07.039 I write up these episodes at Bombombcomla podcast. I also drop in some video 877 01:02:07.079 --> 01:02:08.920 clips. So I know there were some visual moments in this one. I'll 878 01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:13.079 do my best to try to find those that include them just to kind of 879 01:02:13.079 --> 01:02:15.000 bring the episodes to life. So I appreciate everyone for listening. Samantha, 880 01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:19.440 I appreciate your time so much today. Yeah, thank you so much. 881 01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:22.000 I Hey, if you do nothing else but connect a still that doesn't show 882 01:02:22.079 --> 01:02:24.719 me like up my nose or something, I'll be happy. I don't know 883 01:02:24.760 --> 01:02:29.880 what it is, but everybody collects that one thunnail that you don't want. 884 01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:32.679 But thank you to your listeners for listening. This is a time of uncertainty 885 01:02:32.760 --> 01:02:37.559 and I'm so grateful to have a collaboration with you to talk about and just 886 01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:42.039 acknowledge it and to remind us all that this is about human connection. Video 887 01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:45.360 can play a very important role for us as we're going through this moments, 888 01:02:45.440 --> 01:03:00.039 weeks, possibly months of uncertainty and come together as a community, a