Where Thought Leaders Are Getting the Most Attention Today

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah, 2 00:00:04.540 --> 00:00:08.550 welcome back to BTB Growth. I'm dan Sanchez with Sweet fish Media and I'm 3 00:00:08.550 --> 00:00:13.120 here with Mark Colgan, who is the founder and C. R. O. Of speak on 4 00:00:13.120 --> 00:00:16.580 podcasts. Mark welcome to the show, cheers down. I've been looking forward 5 00:00:16.580 --> 00:00:20.150 to this all week. Fantastic. As you know, if you've been listening to the 6 00:00:20.150 --> 00:00:23.620 show for any length of time during the month of june, you know, we are diving 7 00:00:23.630 --> 00:00:27.420 deep into thought leadership marketing, breaking down what is thought 8 00:00:27.420 --> 00:00:30.280 leadership, how to become a thought leader, how to develop thought 9 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:34.410 leadership content. And you might have noticed that there is uh it's certainly 10 00:00:34.410 --> 00:00:37.780 a trend when it comes to thought leadership marketing with getting your 11 00:00:37.780 --> 00:00:43.270 message out there and it's speaking on podcast, you guys all listen to podcast, 12 00:00:43.270 --> 00:00:45.990 you're listening to this one now and you've certainly heard people speak on 13 00:00:45.990 --> 00:00:49.620 this podcast who are not part of the Sweet fish Media team. We are usually 14 00:00:49.620 --> 00:00:53.380 interviewing lots of people, some of which we have asked to be on the show 15 00:00:53.390 --> 00:00:57.300 like Mark today and some of which have actually pitched us to be on the show. 16 00:00:57.310 --> 00:01:01.210 The funny thing is, most of the people that pitch us to be on the show get 17 00:01:01.210 --> 00:01:06.180 turned down almost instantly. But a few of them break through. A few of them 18 00:01:06.190 --> 00:01:09.500 actually do well. It's because they've done their homework, they've done their 19 00:01:09.500 --> 00:01:12.790 research, there's a way to do this well. And I've noticed there's a lot of 20 00:01:12.790 --> 00:01:15.630 people doing it well because as I listen to multiple other podcasts, I 21 00:01:15.630 --> 00:01:18.760 find that the people who are usually really good at this are speaking on 22 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:23.290 many podcasts and getting their message out there um on a variety of shows and 23 00:01:23.290 --> 00:01:26.920 is highly, highly effective way of doing thought leadership content. So I 24 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:32.560 have marked with me today to kind of break down why this is a trend, how 25 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:35.890 it's working and then practical steps for you to implement it with your own 26 00:01:35.890 --> 00:01:39.610 team. Because as I've seen other people's process for this, I know that 27 00:01:39.610 --> 00:01:43.940 Mark and his team have the the best process I've seen for how to get on 28 00:01:43.940 --> 00:01:48.760 shows probably with the most authenticity, with the most reliability. 29 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:52.500 It's the long world, but it's in the hard road, but it's also like just the 30 00:01:52.500 --> 00:01:57.290 best road for doing this instead of hiring like a PR agency just to spray 31 00:01:57.290 --> 00:02:02.190 and pray. So I'm specifically selfishly hoping that you're gonna listen to this 32 00:02:02.190 --> 00:02:07.010 implemented even for pitching BTB growth because I'm tired of getting PR 33 00:02:07.010 --> 00:02:10.180 like spraying pray emails being like, hey can we be on your show? We're going 34 00:02:10.180 --> 00:02:14.220 to talk about veganism. I'm like, are you freaking serious? We're talking 35 00:02:14.220 --> 00:02:17.410 about B two B marketing over here. What are you talking about? Their that off 36 00:02:17.410 --> 00:02:22.750 sometimes. So, Mark, before we dive into the topic of even just speaking on 37 00:02:22.750 --> 00:02:27.120 podcast is a form of thought leadership. Marketing. I'd love to learn a little 38 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:29.970 bit about how how did you even get into the podcasting game? What's your 39 00:02:29.970 --> 00:02:33.310 background and how how how did you start this, this company around 40 00:02:33.310 --> 00:02:37.130 speaking on podcasts? Sure cheers down. And also thank you for thank you for 41 00:02:37.130 --> 00:02:40.910 the compliment that's really well received. Thanks. I guess I'll go back 42 00:02:40.920 --> 00:02:45.060 my my career history and maybe to be marketer sales and marketing. I start 43 00:02:45.060 --> 00:02:48.590 off in recruitment doing a lot of cold calling cold emails and then went into 44 00:02:48.590 --> 00:02:54.310 marketing and I worked in sales that kind of combination that led me to run 45 00:02:54.310 --> 00:02:58.840 a business last two years ago called Task Drive. And as their chief revenue 46 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:02.630 officer and general manager, I had a bit of free time and I started to pitch 47 00:03:02.630 --> 00:03:07.550 myself as a guest on other cells related podcast And I saw that I was 48 00:03:07.550 --> 00:03:12.230 getting some pretty good results with those around 70% yeses on the pictures 49 00:03:12.230 --> 00:03:15.530 that I sent out. And then I thought, well, maybe it's just because of my 50 00:03:15.530 --> 00:03:19.310 profile, I don't know, let me test it with a couple of the other co founders. 51 00:03:19.320 --> 00:03:23.060 So I took their profile, created a little bit of a media kit for them and 52 00:03:23.060 --> 00:03:26.780 started to pitch out different topics to different audiences, um, and managed 53 00:03:26.780 --> 00:03:30.990 to land them on the podcast as well. And what I realized is that mixture of 54 00:03:30.990 --> 00:03:35.210 recruitment and matchmaking from candidates to roles and all my 55 00:03:35.220 --> 00:03:38.970 experience of outbound cells just really, really nicely molded together 56 00:03:39.110 --> 00:03:44.280 to create what what now is today called speak on podcasts. So, uh, in three 57 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:48.300 months I managed to secure around 35 to 40 interviews for myself and the two 58 00:03:48.300 --> 00:03:51.460 other co founders at the time. And it just got to the point where I thought 59 00:03:51.540 --> 00:03:54.980 I'm even really good at this, or I've just got a very good process that I 60 00:03:54.980 --> 00:04:00.680 think other people would benefit from. I met my co founder back in May, so 61 00:04:00.690 --> 00:04:04.170 almost we're almost a year old. Uh and since then we've been working together 62 00:04:04.170 --> 00:04:07.580 and speak on podcasts and we're growing the team to almost 20 people as of 63 00:04:07.580 --> 00:04:13.720 today. Fantastic man. I love that it came out of a need that you had and 64 00:04:13.720 --> 00:04:17.260 then that you built upon it and that it's actually process driven um rather 65 00:04:17.260 --> 00:04:21.320 than personality driven rather than building even a social clout that it's 66 00:04:21.320 --> 00:04:24.320 a tried and true process. And after I've heard your process on a webinar, 67 00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:29.710 we we kind of co lead together with sweet fish media kind of discovered why 68 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:34.300 this works so well, but before we break down your your secret sauce and just 69 00:04:34.300 --> 00:04:37.800 give it away for the audience. Why is speaking on podcast become such a 70 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:43.110 popular strategy, especially for thought leadership in particular? Yeah, 71 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.750 I think we can talk about this without mentioning the elephant in the room of 72 00:04:46.750 --> 00:04:50.320 Covid and you know, a lot of people were leveraging conferences and offline 73 00:04:50.320 --> 00:04:55.200 events to uh to go to conferences and speak and develop their thought 74 00:04:55.200 --> 00:04:58.410 leadership and get that message out there. Um and you know, as you know, 75 00:04:58.410 --> 00:05:03.250 they were all cancelled. So with offline events canceled podcasting 76 00:05:03.260 --> 00:05:08.190 certainly saw an uptick and I know that you guys over a sweet fish, I have had 77 00:05:08.190 --> 00:05:12.330 a very busy 2020 because of this as well. So that's the first reason I 78 00:05:12.330 --> 00:05:15.600 think that more and more people are turning to podcasting to to share their 79 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:18.970 thought leadership message because it's one of the best channels that they can, 80 00:05:18.980 --> 00:05:22.330 and it's accessible for anybody in the world as long as they've got a good 81 00:05:22.340 --> 00:05:26.610 wifi connection or internet connection. But more so than that, even in the 82 00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:30.500 world that we live in today, People still buy from people that they know 83 00:05:30.500 --> 00:05:34.780 like and trust and that's been said for years, but it's still so true. Even in 84 00:05:34.780 --> 00:05:39.430 2021, um, speaking on podcasts, it allows you to really speed up the 85 00:05:39.430 --> 00:05:43.820 process of building that brand trust as you, you're able to leverage an 86 00:05:43.830 --> 00:05:47.910 audience that the podcast host is already built. And it, for me, it acts 87 00:05:47.910 --> 00:05:52.380 as a third party endorsement. And it's very much like having reviews and 88 00:05:52.380 --> 00:05:56.390 testimonials on your own website, which your marketer has just gone in and type 89 00:05:56.390 --> 00:06:01.310 those in, versus having reviews on cap terra or G to crowd or for the service 90 00:06:01.310 --> 00:06:05.360 based businesses. There's clutch and lots of other kind of websites which 91 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:10.370 serve up these third party reviews and I think that's just become more and 92 00:06:10.370 --> 00:06:15.710 more powerful because Only 8% of buyers actually trust the promises that 93 00:06:15.710 --> 00:06:20.010 businesses make them. That's from a Forrester report in 2019. But by 94 00:06:20.010 --> 00:06:23.810 speaking on a podcast, it really helps you start to win the trust and build 95 00:06:23.810 --> 00:06:28.350 credibility amongst your potential customers and you do that by leading 96 00:06:28.350 --> 00:06:32.230 with facts with stories, you know, all the struggles that you've had, the 97 00:06:32.230 --> 00:06:36.440 challenges that you faced. Um, it creates a very intimate touch point 98 00:06:36.450 --> 00:06:40.030 with you and your potential customer. So that's just a couple of the reasons 99 00:06:40.030 --> 00:06:44.330 why I think podcasting has been used as a channel to increase that thought 100 00:06:44.330 --> 00:06:50.020 leadership. Can I throw in a few more? I think one thing that I've noticed is 101 00:06:50.020 --> 00:06:54.110 that, I mean selfishly this is why we love podcasting so much. It's just 102 00:06:54.110 --> 00:06:58.040 easier, right? Like if you want to submit an article to Forbes or the 103 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:02.230 entrepreneur or to techcrunch, like it's just gonna be, it's just gonna 104 00:07:02.230 --> 00:07:04.900 take longer because it's harder to write a really good article and you're 105 00:07:04.900 --> 00:07:08.420 gonna go through their vetting process and it has to be like, like bulletproof 106 00:07:08.420 --> 00:07:13.150 has to be a great, but showing up on podcast, it's just easier. Yes, you 107 00:07:13.150 --> 00:07:15.680 have to craft like your general messages, but usually you've already 108 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:19.620 had those ahead of time, right? And it took like you probably spent a little 109 00:07:19.620 --> 00:07:23.160 bit of time preparing for the show, but probably a lot less than it would have 110 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:27.240 taken you to write an article for Forbes, right? So it's just an easier 111 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:31.500 way. And honestly, like even writing for a bigger publication, people will 112 00:07:31.500 --> 00:07:35.140 read your content, but they're hardly ever going to glance at the byline. But 113 00:07:35.140 --> 00:07:37.990 here, like we've said your name multiple times, your voice, you're 114 00:07:37.990 --> 00:07:41.030 actually speaking, we know your unique person. And if people are like, man 115 00:07:41.030 --> 00:07:45.590 that was really good, they're probably gonna look you up afterwards. Unlike if 116 00:07:45.590 --> 00:07:49.830 your contribution to whatever magazine, like they may or may not click your 117 00:07:49.830 --> 00:07:53.170 byline and look at where you come from unless you strategically haven't done 118 00:07:53.170 --> 00:07:57.420 of back links in that article or something. I just feel like there's 119 00:07:57.430 --> 00:08:01.070 even even more so than traditional pr and getting mentioned in media 120 00:08:01.070 --> 00:08:04.080 podcasting is going to be able to connect just a little bit stronger. 121 00:08:04.080 --> 00:08:07.890 Probably not as much as speaking on stage, but it's also a lot easier to 122 00:08:07.890 --> 00:08:13.820 get on the podcast and it has to get on stage definitely. And I think to 100% 123 00:08:13.820 --> 00:08:16.640 agree with you as well and you know, people are listening to podcasts when 124 00:08:16.640 --> 00:08:19.340 they're running, when they're washing the dishes when they're walking their 125 00:08:19.340 --> 00:08:23.750 dogs, so people are consuming the content and you know, for thousands of 126 00:08:23.750 --> 00:08:28.320 years, stories have been how we've communicated as human beings and it's 127 00:08:28.320 --> 00:08:33.100 just another format of storytelling and it's powerful because you read a Forbes 128 00:08:33.100 --> 00:08:37.380 article and even as a marketer as a potential customer reading this article, 129 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:41.500 I know that maybe it's not the voice of the actual person who has written the 130 00:08:41.500 --> 00:08:45.360 article, it's gone through an editing process. You could ask me anything here 131 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:49.480 dan and I could answer with anything that I want to and I often find by 132 00:08:49.480 --> 00:08:53.260 speaking on podcast, I get ideas for new content all the time because I get 133 00:08:53.260 --> 00:08:56.620 asked a question that I've never been asked before. I was on a podcast just 134 00:08:56.620 --> 00:08:59.670 the other week and somebody asked why do we add in delightful moments for 135 00:08:59.670 --> 00:09:04.230 customers? And I was like, it just feels right, that's that's why we do it. 136 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:08.820 And that then kind of got the gears in my brain spinning about me thinking 137 00:09:08.820 --> 00:09:12.160 about that and actually formulating more of a process around delighting our 138 00:09:12.160 --> 00:09:16.540 customers and what that means to us as a business. Um so it's also a way to 139 00:09:16.540 --> 00:09:21.460 create brand new content completely off the cuff. Absolutely. I 140 00:09:22.540 --> 00:09:24.960 probably my favorite thing is jumping into these conversations, even 141 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:28.320 interacting with you hearing your ideas processing and then spinning it back, 142 00:09:28.330 --> 00:09:33.630 going back and forth. The amount of insight that I get from learning even 143 00:09:33.630 --> 00:09:38.430 as just the host is great for me. But even being a guest on other people, 144 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:42.470 other people shows I've been on a few uh when people ask me questions, it 145 00:09:42.470 --> 00:09:47.100 just gets me thinking and even I'm like explaining things that I'm learning. 146 00:09:47.110 --> 00:09:51.180 I'm learning by their own words coming out of my mouth sometimes, right? Um 147 00:09:51.180 --> 00:09:54.420 sometimes you're like, oh, the reason why we do that is like I've never, you 148 00:09:54.420 --> 00:09:57.300 explain it and then you're like, I've never even externalized that before, 149 00:09:57.300 --> 00:09:59.860 thank you for asking. You just pulled something out of me. It's almost 150 00:09:59.860 --> 00:10:02.780 sometimes it's like having these interviews come at you. It's like 151 00:10:02.780 --> 00:10:06.350 almost having like a coach, it like solidifies your own thinking sometimes 152 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:11.410 that's just kind of a plus right to kind of move on. What are we actually 153 00:10:11.420 --> 00:10:16.810 influencing here? Like this is often like it's happening enough that 154 00:10:16.810 --> 00:10:20.560 sometimes I feel like it would almost would like just not work as well 155 00:10:20.560 --> 00:10:24.270 anymore because people are so used to hearing interview based podcast, people 156 00:10:24.270 --> 00:10:29.080 are so used to even hearing some person on like everybody show like Matthew 157 00:10:29.080 --> 00:10:32.380 McConaughey right over the last couple of months has been everywhere. I don't, 158 00:10:32.390 --> 00:10:36.430 he's just been blitzing all the podcast and he's been everywhere. Hence he's 159 00:10:36.430 --> 00:10:39.410 like even thinking about running for governor potentially here because he's 160 00:10:39.410 --> 00:10:43.230 been on so many podcasts and raked up so much influence what's actually going 161 00:10:43.230 --> 00:10:48.400 on. How does that create influence? Yeah, I think that to take a step back, 162 00:10:48.400 --> 00:10:52.850 we've got to remember that as marketers and salespeople, we design a funnel or 163 00:10:52.850 --> 00:10:57.620 a sales process for individuals to go through, but it's just one process or 164 00:10:57.620 --> 00:11:01.730 one funnel that we want all of these different people to come into and, and 165 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:05.530 and navigate through and really when you think about it and the reason why 166 00:11:05.530 --> 00:11:09.570 speaking on multiple podcasts makes sense is that there's different buyers 167 00:11:09.580 --> 00:11:13.150 from different places all over the world, listening to different things, 168 00:11:13.150 --> 00:11:16.780 and also at different levels of the buyer's journey. A lot of people listen 169 00:11:16.780 --> 00:11:19.810 to podcasts to learn or to overcome a challenge that are actually 170 00:11:19.810 --> 00:11:23.080 experiencing at the moment. Like I, I get asked what's my favorite marketing 171 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:25.450 book? And I was like, well, I haven't really learned anything new about 172 00:11:25.450 --> 00:11:29.250 marketing in books recently, because books that were published a year ago 173 00:11:29.250 --> 00:11:32.560 weren't talking about Tiktok for example, but I'll go to podcasts to 174 00:11:32.560 --> 00:11:36.660 listen to interviews with people who are doing well on Tiktok. So this goes 175 00:11:36.660 --> 00:11:40.220 really back to the buyer's journey and the buyer's journey actually starts a 176 00:11:40.220 --> 00:11:44.530 really long time before they reach out to a sales person. I think it's around 177 00:11:44.540 --> 00:11:48.560 80% is the latest stat. And when I think about the last two software 178 00:11:48.560 --> 00:11:52.510 purchases I made from thinking specifically for the B two B um it was 179 00:11:52.510 --> 00:11:59.150 through word of mouth, office vibe is a team manager, team uh, engagement 180 00:11:59.150 --> 00:12:04.060 platform so I can get feedback from my team. I asked what are people using and 181 00:12:04.060 --> 00:12:06.920 somebody told me office fire, it's got a really nice sign up process, check it 182 00:12:06.920 --> 00:12:11.340 out. The other piece of software was a, it's called Home Run, it's an applicant 183 00:12:11.340 --> 00:12:15.410 tracking system. Um, somebody referred it to me because they heard the founder 184 00:12:15.410 --> 00:12:20.020 on a podcast speak about it. So they'd never actually used the software, but 185 00:12:20.020 --> 00:12:23.210 they'd heard the founder, I went and listen to that podcast and I was like, 186 00:12:23.220 --> 00:12:27.450 okay, I like where this Ceo is coming from, I like the direction he, his 187 00:12:27.450 --> 00:12:30.960 vision of the business. So I signed up with Home Run, you know, the pricing 188 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:33.910 was right and everything like that as well. There are other things that 189 00:12:33.910 --> 00:12:37.580 contributed to it, but those two purchases were both word of mouth and 190 00:12:37.580 --> 00:12:42.320 and referral and the more podcasts you speak on, the more chance you have of 191 00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:45.870 increasing the likelihood of that word of mouth. And as I mentioned, when 192 00:12:45.870 --> 00:12:49.470 people are actually, they're searching for a solution to the problem that 193 00:12:49.470 --> 00:12:53.040 they're facing and maybe your product or service can help them overcome that 194 00:12:53.040 --> 00:12:58.350 challenge. Can you really afford not to show up when people are searching? It's 195 00:12:58.350 --> 00:13:02.870 funny, I consider podcasting to be like a middle of the funnel type of activity 196 00:13:02.880 --> 00:13:06.790 only because the discover ability around finding new podcast is not that 197 00:13:06.790 --> 00:13:10.540 great, which is why I usually need like, you know, usually combined podcasting 198 00:13:10.540 --> 00:13:13.140 with like some kind of short form channel like linkedin, twitter, 199 00:13:13.150 --> 00:13:17.170 facebook, something like that. And while people are like hunting and 200 00:13:17.170 --> 00:13:20.790 searching on a Ceo and blogs and on social media, find on podcasting, 201 00:13:20.790 --> 00:13:23.470 they're usually they're usually learning, they're usually going a 202 00:13:23.470 --> 00:13:27.430 little bit deeper. Um So when they're hearing your voice either as a, as a 203 00:13:27.430 --> 00:13:31.310 host or your guests voice, they're actually like listening. They're not 204 00:13:31.310 --> 00:13:34.840 just scanning like in a blog post and picking up bits and pieces are actually 205 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:38.250 probably listening to the whole thing. They probably scan to list the titles 206 00:13:38.250 --> 00:13:41.710 that were Interesting and picked out. One that was the most intriguing to 207 00:13:41.710 --> 00:13:44.390 them probably because it's the biggest problem they have or the thing that 208 00:13:44.390 --> 00:13:47.240 they have been thinking about lately, maybe an opportunity they've been 209 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:51.190 considering. And so when you come on as the expert guest and they've been 210 00:13:51.190 --> 00:13:56.660 listening to you for a solid, 40, 50 min. like the chances of them look at 211 00:13:56.660 --> 00:14:00.720 least looking you up are probably pretty high because they just spent, I 212 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:05.630 mean the amount of time you just had with them on a more intimate channel is 213 00:14:05.640 --> 00:14:08.530 up. So it's almost like you're, you're skipping the top of the funnel and just 214 00:14:08.530 --> 00:14:11.600 going straight to the middle of the funnel because the amount, it's not 215 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:14.900 like just reading a tweet, that would be very top of the top of the funnel 216 00:14:14.900 --> 00:14:18.110 activity, podcasting. You're essentially inserting yourself into the 217 00:14:18.110 --> 00:14:22.000 middle of the funnel where they can do. And I guess it's top of the funnel, you 218 00:14:22.010 --> 00:14:25.170 for you, They're still discovering you. But that's like, it's a heavy hit for 219 00:14:25.170 --> 00:14:29.430 top of the funnel for you, right? Because it's somebody else's potential 220 00:14:29.430 --> 00:14:33.060 funnel. I'm just kind of thinking, I figured that's probably what's 221 00:14:33.060 --> 00:14:36.050 happening. Yeah. We've worked with customers before who said that they 222 00:14:36.050 --> 00:14:38.340 didn't want to go and speak on a podcast that their competitors were 223 00:14:38.340 --> 00:14:41.900 really speaking on. And I was like, no, that's the best podcast to go on 224 00:14:41.900 --> 00:14:45.230 because you do a better interview and deliver more value than your competitor 225 00:14:45.230 --> 00:14:48.220 did. Then people are going to have more, they may have more of an affinity to 226 00:14:48.220 --> 00:14:51.800 working with you. If you share some real raw insights and some knowledge 227 00:14:51.800 --> 00:14:55.560 that perhaps the competitive didn't share, then you just walk up to them. 228 00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:59.380 Um, and the likelihood is that they subscribe to that podcast, so they're 229 00:14:59.380 --> 00:15:02.900 going to listen to future episodes that come out as well. So it's the perfect 230 00:15:02.900 --> 00:15:06.090 one to go forward. So we managed to talk them around on on that particular 231 00:15:06.090 --> 00:15:10.310 scenario. That's interesting. If you're speaking on podcasts, your competitors 232 00:15:10.310 --> 00:15:14.420 are onto usually try to one up them by giving a totally different viewpoint or 233 00:15:14.420 --> 00:15:18.310 advantage point from them. Or do you just try to, I imagine you're not just 234 00:15:18.310 --> 00:15:22.450 gonna do what they do and blogging and just add more content. No. How do you 235 00:15:22.460 --> 00:15:26.310 you probably want to do that? Yeah. You probably want to have a slightly 236 00:15:26.310 --> 00:15:29.460 different angle. You can agree with them, you can disagree with them. 237 00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:32.230 There's no right or wrong answer but just be prepared that if you're gonna 238 00:15:32.230 --> 00:15:35.840 disagree you do it tastefully and respectfully and you've got the facts 239 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:40.730 to back it up. So yeah. So I I do believe to come across come come across 240 00:15:40.730 --> 00:15:44.990 it with a slightly different angle or topic would be a better strategy then 241 00:15:44.990 --> 00:15:49.210 just if they said five tips you do you give 10 tips because you're right, it's 242 00:15:49.210 --> 00:15:53.360 not blog post that we're dealing with here. All right. What is your step by 243 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:56.630 step process for doing this? This is kind of the meat of the episode that I 244 00:15:56.630 --> 00:16:00.330 think is the most exciting. I remember hearing it for the first time and they 245 00:16:00.330 --> 00:16:03.960 can like, oh that's doable. It's hard, it's work but it's it's definitely 246 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:10.280 doable. So can you break down your step by step process for finding shows uh 247 00:16:10.280 --> 00:16:14.570 and reaching out, getting on there, making sure you get the most out of the 248 00:16:14.570 --> 00:16:19.610 episodes that you do get. Sure. sure. So what you're asking, I spent the 249 00:16:19.610 --> 00:16:22.370 first few months when we set up the business, writing documents and 250 00:16:22.370 --> 00:16:27.180 processes. So this next few minutes is going to be a combination of around 300 251 00:16:27.180 --> 00:16:31.970 pages of documentation and what I'll do is I'll try and give the shortcut 252 00:16:31.970 --> 00:16:35.620 version of it, which somebody who's listening today could could apply and 253 00:16:35.620 --> 00:16:40.320 put into practice straight away. So Um when you get to publish the book, 300 254 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:43.940 pages. Yeah, that's true, that's true. We we should do that, we should do its 255 00:16:43.940 --> 00:16:50.170 thing. So the first step ready to start with is really focusing on your message. 256 00:16:50.180 --> 00:16:53.280 You know, what stories do you want to tell, what angles are you going to talk 257 00:16:53.280 --> 00:16:56.900 about? And there's typically three ways that we encourage people to think about 258 00:16:56.900 --> 00:17:01.270 this and that's the solutions to common problems that your ideal customers have 259 00:17:01.540 --> 00:17:04.910 um insights that you have, especially if you're a software company, you've 260 00:17:04.910 --> 00:17:08.190 probably got a lot of data and insights of how people are using the product, 261 00:17:08.190 --> 00:17:13.329 the tools um and everything like that. And then also controversial opinions, 262 00:17:13.339 --> 00:17:16.710 one for me dan that I know you and I agree with is that you shouldn't really 263 00:17:16.710 --> 00:17:20.720 get content um that the majority of content should be undated and that's 264 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:24.750 still quite a controversial opinion in in certain marketing circles. So having 265 00:17:24.750 --> 00:17:28.730 topics that are of interest and and would pique the interest of a podcast 266 00:17:28.730 --> 00:17:32.930 host is definitely the good place to start. So, you've got your message, 267 00:17:32.930 --> 00:17:36.760 your, your stories, and I definitely think about your customer stories and 268 00:17:36.760 --> 00:17:40.950 anecdotes that you could use to help back up your your messaging as well. 269 00:17:40.950 --> 00:17:44.910 I'll cover that slightly later than and then really, you need to ask yourself, 270 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:50.040 it's time to do the research. So, who do I want to be speaking to? If I was 271 00:17:50.040 --> 00:17:54.050 on stage at a conference, I just paid An extortionate amount of money to get 272 00:17:54.050 --> 00:17:59.390 15 minutes speakers who do I want to see in front of me before? Who do I 273 00:17:59.390 --> 00:18:02.490 want to see in front of me? So who are the customers that I want to be 274 00:18:02.490 --> 00:18:06.000 listening to my message and the way that we go about thinking about this 275 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:09.450 for our customers were all about relevancy. We do not care about the 276 00:18:09.450 --> 00:18:14.300 numbers, it's about we we most we mostly focus on. Is this going to be a 277 00:18:14.300 --> 00:18:18.000 relevant podcast? And will there be a large percentage of our idol of our 278 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:22.620 customers, ideal prospects listening to the show? So we ask the question what 279 00:18:22.620 --> 00:18:26.070 podcasts are your customers listening to? And if you've got customers ask 280 00:18:26.070 --> 00:18:30.010 them, you could also think about what podcasts are your competitors speaking 281 00:18:30.010 --> 00:18:33.950 on because if they if they're speaking on a podcast, you may take the 282 00:18:33.950 --> 00:18:37.840 hypotheses that they've done their due diligence and there's probably going to 283 00:18:37.840 --> 00:18:41.520 be a likelihood of of your target audience on there as well. And then 284 00:18:41.520 --> 00:18:44.920 also, this is one of my favorite ones down and it's around who are the 285 00:18:44.930 --> 00:18:49.560 influencers in your market or the software vendors with huge amounts of 286 00:18:49.560 --> 00:18:53.640 funding? Where are they speaking? Because if they're speaking and you 287 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:57.080 served the same audience, then go and find the podcast that they're being, 288 00:18:57.090 --> 00:19:00.270 they're being interviewed on as well because again, there's more of a chance 289 00:19:00.270 --> 00:19:03.690 of that audience being your ideal customer profile. So we've we've 290 00:19:03.690 --> 00:19:07.170 covered the starting points of thinking about your messaging and your topics 291 00:19:07.360 --> 00:19:11.970 and then doing your research. Listen notes is a great database, which has 292 00:19:11.980 --> 00:19:16.190 pretty much 2.4 million podcasts, although I don't believe all 2.4 293 00:19:16.190 --> 00:19:19.460 million active, but it's a great database and a place to start. If 294 00:19:19.460 --> 00:19:23.980 you're starting to look at the podcast that you want to speak on before I move 295 00:19:23.980 --> 00:19:30.350 on down. Any questions on these first two steps, Hey everybody Logan with 296 00:19:30.350 --> 00:19:34.400 sweet fish here. If you're a regular listener of GDP growth, you know that 297 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:38.210 I'm one of the co hosts of the show, but you may not know that. I also head 298 00:19:38.210 --> 00:19:42.410 up the sales team here is sweet fish. So for those of you in sales or sales 299 00:19:42.410 --> 00:19:46.520 ops, I wanted to take a second to share something that's made us insanely more 300 00:19:46.520 --> 00:19:50.440 efficient lately. Our team has been using lead I. Q. For the past few 301 00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:54.960 months. And what used to take us four hours gathering contact data now takes 302 00:19:54.960 --> 00:20:00.330 us only one where 75% more efficient were able to move faster with outbound 303 00:20:00.330 --> 00:20:04.800 prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier than before. 304 00:20:04.810 --> 00:20:08.960 I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead I. Q. As well. You can check them 305 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:16.320 out at least I. Q dot com. That's L E A D I Q dot com. All right, let's get 306 00:20:16.320 --> 00:20:23.000 back to the show. No, actually I think it's remarkably clear. I think I like I 307 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:27.450 have in my head exactly what I would do in order to get this done. I think the, 308 00:20:27.460 --> 00:20:30.300 probably the best step is just talking directly to customers and being like, 309 00:20:30.300 --> 00:20:33.460 by the way, who, who are you listening to? I mean, I could go to my linkedin 310 00:20:33.460 --> 00:20:35.580 page, you just ask them and I'll probably get a lot of answers. But 311 00:20:35.580 --> 00:20:38.360 specifically going to customers is probably going to be the better one. 312 00:20:38.940 --> 00:20:42.270 That's probably the first place to go. That's going to get you more like the 313 00:20:42.270 --> 00:20:45.270 people who are actually buying for me, rather than your social audience. 314 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:49.780 Absolute. So once you've got your research, and of course, this is, this 315 00:20:49.780 --> 00:20:52.650 is going to going to take time. You're gonna need to find the email address of 316 00:20:52.660 --> 00:20:56.310 the linkedin, sorry, linked in profile, the email address of the podcast host. 317 00:20:56.320 --> 00:20:59.900 You want to make sure if that there's lots of podcasts out there down as you 318 00:20:59.900 --> 00:21:03.390 know, but not all of them are active or they haven't released a new episode in 319 00:21:03.390 --> 00:21:07.360 the last 30 days. So we kind of don't count those podcasts when we're working 320 00:21:07.360 --> 00:21:12.150 with our customers campaigns. We they're not qualified for us. We also 321 00:21:12.150 --> 00:21:16.450 look at the social media presence of each podcast host and the podcast 322 00:21:16.450 --> 00:21:21.550 itself as well as the amount of reviews, how frequently they produce new 323 00:21:21.550 --> 00:21:24.640 episodes as well. And this kind of allows us to give a little bit of a 324 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:28.460 scoring because we give each of those parameters are waiting to give us a 325 00:21:28.470 --> 00:21:32.940 total school and that's how we kind of filter and sort all of our podcast that 326 00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:37.000 we reach out to to our customers. Uh, so once you've done done that and there 327 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:40.010 is a lot of heavy lifting that needs to happen there. The next thing you need 328 00:21:40.010 --> 00:21:44.190 to do is is suggest yourself as a guest and you'll notice that I haven't used 329 00:21:44.190 --> 00:21:48.200 the word pitch, we've banned that word pitch internally and when I see it in 330 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:52.280 slack, I'm like, no, it's not pitch, it's an introduction because what we're 331 00:21:52.280 --> 00:21:56.940 really focused on is thinking of the audience, the host, the majority of 332 00:21:56.940 --> 00:22:00.950 hosts really do care about their audience, that they spent the time 333 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:04.920 building and the guests that they bring onto their show. Um and so ultimately 334 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:09.530 the host cares about the value that you can bring to their audience, so make 335 00:22:09.530 --> 00:22:13.940 sure that you're looking for those key similarities between previous guests 336 00:22:13.940 --> 00:22:18.030 and topics and the ones that you can talk about as well and in your email. 337 00:22:18.030 --> 00:22:23.810 So we start most of our outreach via email. We like to highlight a few, 338 00:22:23.820 --> 00:22:27.610 either a recent guests or a few topics that they spoke about, but for example 339 00:22:27.610 --> 00:22:31.490 then I'm not gonna say, hey dan, I really enjoyed your interview with Mark 340 00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:36.670 about podcasting. We listen to podcast episodes. We were listening out for 341 00:22:36.670 --> 00:22:40.360 those nuggets of information that connects our customers to the podcast 342 00:22:40.360 --> 00:22:45.420 host. One of our customers is a huge Skydiving Fanny's done over 70 solo 343 00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:49.900 jumps, so if we hear that in the podcast from the host who's saying or 344 00:22:49.900 --> 00:22:53.770 maybe they previously had a guest on, we include that in our messaging. 345 00:22:53.940 --> 00:22:58.980 Writing PSS is probably the favorite thing that I like to get the team doing. 346 00:22:58.990 --> 00:23:02.780 Um there was one I wrote today actually because I still write a lot of these 347 00:23:02.780 --> 00:23:07.830 emails as well done One of them today is the host does craft McGarr. Uh and I 348 00:23:07.830 --> 00:23:11.530 used to do crack McGarr until I got to ribs cracked from a, from a roundhouse 349 00:23:11.530 --> 00:23:15.260 kick I wasn't expecting. So I put that in there because we're personalizing 350 00:23:15.260 --> 00:23:20.350 the experience that we are giving the podcast hosts. But yeah, highlight a 351 00:23:20.350 --> 00:23:25.220 few guests or topics and then make that connection between those topics to what 352 00:23:25.220 --> 00:23:31.410 you can talk about. Maybe you can add to, maybe you can disagree with, but 353 00:23:31.410 --> 00:23:35.260 really highlight why uh this would be valuable to the audience. And what we 354 00:23:35.260 --> 00:23:38.810 like to focus on as well is when we're working with our customers, we want to 355 00:23:38.810 --> 00:23:41.830 make sure that they're not coming and going on podcast just to pitch their 356 00:23:41.830 --> 00:23:45.420 product. They're actually going on podcast. Talk about solutions to 357 00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:49.500 challenges. So we always like to think about what actionable tips can you 358 00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:53.700 share with a podcast audience that somebody could listen to and implement 359 00:23:53.700 --> 00:23:57.050 straight away. And we do a very good job of highlighting that in our 360 00:23:57.050 --> 00:24:02.560 outreach And and mentioning that our customer is more than happy to share. 361 00:24:02.570 --> 00:24:06.450 You know, the insights that he's experienced over 20 years of building 362 00:24:06.460 --> 00:24:10.450 HR functions in fast-growing startups. You know, that's a lot that that person 363 00:24:10.450 --> 00:24:16.340 can unpack and deliver. And then lastly, the call to action the sea to is we use 364 00:24:16.340 --> 00:24:19.860 a very soft call to action we never like to assume and again we're not 365 00:24:19.860 --> 00:24:24.690 pitching here. So we asked the question, would you be interested? And that could 366 00:24:24.690 --> 00:24:28.720 be done. Would your audience be interested in learning from dan on your 367 00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:32.660 podcast? Or would your audience be interested in learning about X. Y. Z. 368 00:24:32.660 --> 00:24:37.010 Topic on your on on the podcast or via an interview? And we also like to see 369 00:24:37.020 --> 00:24:41.010 like a lot of, we've met a lot of our customers and we know that they're good 370 00:24:41.010 --> 00:24:45.340 people and they're fun people as well. So if we feel that the host will enjoy 371 00:24:45.340 --> 00:24:48.310 the conversation because we've listened to a few of the recent episodes and see 372 00:24:48.310 --> 00:24:51.980 how they banter and build report with the guests will also allude to that as 373 00:24:51.980 --> 00:24:56.270 well. And we usually do that in the PS section and we might say um ask 374 00:24:56.280 --> 00:25:01.270 customer name about his 17 years experience of being a male stripper 375 00:25:01.540 --> 00:25:04.960 just to add a little bit of intrigue. And it's true as well for one of our 376 00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:11.660 customers. Absolutely. It's funny. So you're going right for right for the 377 00:25:11.660 --> 00:25:15.760 suggestion of the first email. You're not like warming it up with other 378 00:25:15.760 --> 00:25:19.240 communications, you're just going straight for it. But you're doing a lot 379 00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:22.460 of homework ahead of time. You're listening to actual episodes, you're 380 00:25:22.460 --> 00:25:27.030 actually, gosh, that's so much work to do. But it makes so much more sense 381 00:25:27.030 --> 00:25:30.630 that it would take time to do. This started to go back a little bit like 382 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:34.100 when you find the list of episodes, so you've done your homework, you have it 383 00:25:34.100 --> 00:25:37.690 in excel sheet, You've given him a score. Do you like take on a group of 384 00:25:37.690 --> 00:25:41.520 them at a time to listen to for a while? To take notes while you're listening to 385 00:25:41.520 --> 00:25:48.050 him? To find those insights? Yeah we we on average we get a 75% response rate 386 00:25:48.050 --> 00:25:52.350 for all of the outreach that we do. Which means we don't have to send huge 387 00:25:52.350 --> 00:25:55.950 volumes. So and you know I used to work in marketing automation. I know I could 388 00:25:55.960 --> 00:26:01.010 automate a lot of this but I just know it won't work when I as you know then I 389 00:26:01.010 --> 00:26:05.350 I coach sales development reps as a project outside of speaking podcast. 390 00:26:05.350 --> 00:26:09.820 And the first thing I say to them is give first give value before asking for 391 00:26:09.820 --> 00:26:15.040 anything in return in the position that we're in as a guest booking agency. If 392 00:26:15.040 --> 00:26:18.320 that's the category that we fit into, we don't like to be put in a box, but 393 00:26:18.330 --> 00:26:23.630 for this purpose we will, the podcast host knows what our job is to do. And 394 00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:27.640 as long as we're clearly communicating the value that our customers can 395 00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:32.000 deliver, we feel confident that because we've done the research right? Because 396 00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.460 we've listened to several episodes at times and we've got a whole slack 397 00:26:35.460 --> 00:26:40.070 channel where one of our booking agents would say, hey, I can't find a relevant 398 00:26:40.080 --> 00:26:44.100 uh interview. So people jump in and say, well what about this one? Or what about 399 00:26:44.100 --> 00:26:48.760 that one? Because we all know all of our team knows our customers. Um 400 00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:53.690 Because we spent that time, it's not just like Hayden here's a guest, it's 401 00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:58.020 Haydn enjoyed your episode with Mark about X. Y. Z. Really found it 402 00:26:58.020 --> 00:27:02.610 interesting with when he mentioned abc um We have we're currently working with 403 00:27:02.610 --> 00:27:06.980 a customer who could expand on that topic. Would you do you feel your 404 00:27:06.980 --> 00:27:10.630 audience would also find it valuable for him to be on your show or her to be 405 00:27:10.630 --> 00:27:15.870 on your show? Um So we do lead with the suggestion, but like I said, we're not 406 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:22.780 afraid of being proud that our job is to secure interviews for sure. Um And 407 00:27:22.780 --> 00:27:26.720 there's certainly been times where you you guys have brought guests to us and 408 00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:29.380 other people have broadcast to us. We're just, it just kind of makes sense. 409 00:27:29.390 --> 00:27:33.220 It almost feels like a it almost feels like a friend making a recommendation 410 00:27:33.220 --> 00:27:37.630 that it feels like a pitch, right? You're like, hey, like seems like so 411 00:27:37.630 --> 00:27:40.830 and so it would be a good fit. Are you interested? I mean we're kind of big 412 00:27:40.830 --> 00:27:45.500 into the call to action, like interested question mark. Um It's just 413 00:27:45.500 --> 00:27:51.950 casual, it's the way people actually talk. Um So 75%. A pretty good uh 414 00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:56.270 response rate. How many what's the rate of that you're actually getting people 415 00:27:56.270 --> 00:27:57.260 placed on the shows? 416 00:27:58.840 --> 00:28:04.840 So we we were depending on the part of the campaign that we're working with 417 00:28:04.840 --> 00:28:08.860 our customers on average, we book for interviews booked per month for each 418 00:28:08.860 --> 00:28:11.590 customer, some of those working a shorter time frame, some of them a 419 00:28:11.590 --> 00:28:15.470 little bit longer. But we're as you can imagine from that sort of, you know 420 00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:20.310 that 75 responsible isn't all positive. Sometimes it's like, hey no not right 421 00:28:20.310 --> 00:28:24.040 now I'm fully booked or it's not quite the fit because we're gonna be focusing 422 00:28:24.040 --> 00:28:29.400 on this topic and that topic. Um But we're managing to secure customers 423 00:28:29.410 --> 00:28:35.000 relatively easily on four interviews per month. When I say easily the work 424 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:38.380 has gone in to get to that point. But once we're ready to send the emails 425 00:28:38.380 --> 00:28:42.350 were not about the volume. And if I see that we're drafting too many emails, 426 00:28:42.360 --> 00:28:46.130 I'm like, no, there's a problem here. The message isn't right. Let's refocus 427 00:28:46.130 --> 00:28:49.400 on the message, reduce the volume and make sure that we've got the right 428 00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:50.770 message to the right audience 429 00:28:51.940 --> 00:28:56.170 to kind of circle back around. Like how many someone on your team is actually 430 00:28:56.170 --> 00:29:00.130 listening to the episodes of all these different podcasts. Like if you were an 431 00:29:00.140 --> 00:29:05.100 individual, like, let's say I wanted to go speak on your podcasts, Is it just 432 00:29:05.100 --> 00:29:08.600 about as much time as I can give to it? Like is there, do you try to listen to 433 00:29:08.600 --> 00:29:12.460 a few shows at a time? Um How do you how do you group the work on that? 434 00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:17.630 Yes. So that that you did ask about the grouping. So we we kind of Bachar 435 00:29:17.630 --> 00:29:23.380 outreach in tens. So we would send 10 emails out as part of a batch of of one 436 00:29:23.380 --> 00:29:28.000 campaign. And the reason why we don't do more is well that 10, we could get 437 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:32.540 four yeses or we could get six yeses For the best campaign that we've done 438 00:29:32.540 --> 00:29:36.630 so far. We've got 100% success rate on 10 emails for a customer that we 439 00:29:36.630 --> 00:29:39.750 reached out to. Because we did our homework, we did our research. We made 440 00:29:39.750 --> 00:29:44.500 the relevant connections between The podcast host and the guest and the PSS 441 00:29:44.500 --> 00:29:48.660 were really personalized. Um and it just so happened that those 10 will 442 00:29:48.660 --> 00:29:52.320 open to taking on a guest. We just can't predict where the podcast host is 443 00:29:52.320 --> 00:29:56.980 in their schedule. If you're doing it yourself, I would 100% recommend 444 00:29:56.990 --> 00:30:00.900 spending the time doing the research and listening to a couple of episodes 445 00:30:00.930 --> 00:30:04.460 rather than trying to do all in a spreadsheet. An automated and Dana's 446 00:30:04.460 --> 00:30:07.650 alluded to. I used to work in marketing automation, setting up automation for 447 00:30:07.650 --> 00:30:11.560 companies. And the first thing I often say to my clients at the time would be 448 00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:14.680 let's not automate everything and let's not automate a process that doesn't 449 00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:18.730 work. Let's do this in bite sized chunks and work out which things we can 450 00:30:18.730 --> 00:30:22.920 automate. So just to give an idea of how we do it here, a speaking podcast 451 00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:27.030 is we have a team that just as research, we have a team that does the 452 00:30:27.030 --> 00:30:31.780 copyrighting. So we've actually started to batch process the way that we do 453 00:30:31.780 --> 00:30:38.750 work. So our copywriters just write the copy for the foot for the outreach. But 454 00:30:38.760 --> 00:30:41.940 all of our booking agents are also trained to do the copy as well. So if 455 00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:45.560 there's ever the volume is too high for the copywriters do booking agents can 456 00:30:45.560 --> 00:30:49.670 jump in and uh and and make any tweets or draft their own emails as well 457 00:30:50.740 --> 00:30:54.680 Man, there's so many little details um that I could dive into and I'm sure the 458 00:30:54.680 --> 00:30:58.240 300 pages worth of documentation outlines all the steps and that 459 00:30:58.250 --> 00:31:01.500 outreach. Have you, have you published this information anywhere as far as 460 00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:04.610 like what your scripts look like and even what tools you use to find their 461 00:31:04.610 --> 00:31:09.270 email and all that kind of stuff. We've we've put together a guide. If you were 462 00:31:09.270 --> 00:31:12.450 an individual that you wanted to do this yourself, we've put together a 463 00:31:12.450 --> 00:31:17.030 step by step process for for that, which we I can share at the end of the 464 00:31:17.040 --> 00:31:20.080 podcast and maybe share the link with you down So you can include it in the, 465 00:31:20.080 --> 00:31:23.960 in the show notes as well. So yeah, so we got it. So somebody could read that, 466 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:27.250 spend the time to read it, follow the instructions. There's a research 467 00:31:27.250 --> 00:31:30.360 template, there's an email script in there as well, so that they could use 468 00:31:30.370 --> 00:31:33.280 it slightly different to the one that we do because because I wrote it as if 469 00:31:33.280 --> 00:31:37.500 I'm reaching out myself, but one thing that we haven't covered just yet is the 470 00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:44.920 follow up process. So 40% of our bookings happen on the first email, The 471 00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:48.930 60% of the bookings happen in the follow ups and we send around six 472 00:31:48.930 --> 00:31:54.480 follow ups for each, each customer. So that batch of 10 is really 60 emails 473 00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:59.090 that that we right. And what we send in those follow ups is additional examples 474 00:31:59.090 --> 00:32:03.050 of, of content, potentially a previous podcast interview that's already gone 475 00:32:03.050 --> 00:32:08.000 live, maybe social proof. One of our customers has a an email list, which is 476 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:12.610 happy to promote the podcast too. After he's appeared on a on a show, another 477 00:32:12.610 --> 00:32:15.510 customer of ours, she has a huge following on instagram and she's always 478 00:32:15.510 --> 00:32:20.680 happy to give a plug to a podcast host if if they interview her. So we use 479 00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:24.920 that as part of our follow up and we have like a break up email, which I'm 480 00:32:24.920 --> 00:32:28.820 sure you're familiar with. We don't go too cheesy with it at all, but it's 481 00:32:28.820 --> 00:32:31.980 effective and we get a lot of people coming back to us saying, I'm so sorry, 482 00:32:31.990 --> 00:32:34.900 I just might, I'm completely overwhelmed, but you're the only 483 00:32:34.900 --> 00:32:39.730 company that has consistently followed up in a very polite and good wayne. In 484 00:32:39.730 --> 00:32:43.470 fact, if you look at our website than there's more testimonials from podcast 485 00:32:43.470 --> 00:32:46.970 host, then there is of the customers that we've worked with because the host 486 00:32:46.970 --> 00:32:50.770 just loved the outreach and the approach that we take. I can see why it 487 00:32:50.770 --> 00:32:55.020 would be interesting to see. Do you change the email entirely with every 488 00:32:55.020 --> 00:32:58.340 single response? You're just changing the subject line? I know they're 489 00:32:58.340 --> 00:33:02.210 completely completely fresh emails every every time. So in a sequence 490 00:33:02.210 --> 00:33:05.520 those six emails would be completely different. We do reply to one of the 491 00:33:05.520 --> 00:33:09.670 initial emails that we send, but the majority of the other emails are 492 00:33:09.670 --> 00:33:13.480 completely different because, you know, from my experience and sells a lot of 493 00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:17.200 companies or a lot of sales people in the emails, they pitch their product or 494 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:20.610 they talk about all of the benefits or all of the features of the tool that 495 00:33:20.610 --> 00:33:24.120 they're trying to sell in one email. Whereas really if you're putting four 496 00:33:24.120 --> 00:33:28.200 bullet points in, that's four different messages may be the first problem that 497 00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:32.070 you solve didn't resonate with that person who sent it to. So try the 498 00:33:32.070 --> 00:33:35.670 second one, try the third and not to go too off topic. There was a very 499 00:33:35.670 --> 00:33:39.910 successful campaign. I ran for a software company and after running some 500 00:33:39.910 --> 00:33:43.310 of the outreach, we found out that the messaging and the content in the third 501 00:33:43.310 --> 00:33:48.650 email was what got most of the replies. So we put the third email to the first 502 00:33:48.650 --> 00:33:53.100 email for the future out which we were doing. And we managed to get even more 503 00:33:53.100 --> 00:33:55.600 replies to those first emails without having to go through the effort of the 504 00:33:55.600 --> 00:33:58.400 follow up. And again, that's why we take that approach to matching the 505 00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:01.370 process because if we send 10 emails and it's just not landing and we're not 506 00:34:01.370 --> 00:34:05.490 getting our hitting our KPI is that we normally do, will revise and revisit 507 00:34:05.500 --> 00:34:09.630 and see what we can do to get better results in the future. It's amazing 508 00:34:09.630 --> 00:34:12.780 that you're not automating this. Like the whole cadence of these things is 509 00:34:12.780 --> 00:34:18.820 going out manually, even though you, I mean 10 at a time isn't too bad, But 510 00:34:18.820 --> 00:34:23.610 still 10 times six is 60 different emails, all of them unique, all of them 511 00:34:23.610 --> 00:34:29.340 customized, which is why this is, you know, is a hard process, a lot of work. 512 00:34:30.040 --> 00:34:33.199 And again, like I know what can be automated because I used to automate 513 00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:37.630 these things before, but wherever there's human error and an automation 514 00:34:37.630 --> 00:34:42.909 could go AWOL we kind of don't want to automate. And what often happens as you 515 00:34:42.909 --> 00:34:46.330 all know down from all the shows that you guys produces, you have producers 516 00:34:46.330 --> 00:34:49.190 and you have other people replying on behalf of the host that you've reached 517 00:34:49.190 --> 00:34:55.110 out to. And unless you've got a very, very tight um exclusion kind of formula 518 00:34:55.110 --> 00:34:58.660 in there, you're going to end up sending the follow up email are not 519 00:34:58.660 --> 00:35:02.240 canceling it once you've had a reply from a different email. And when I 520 00:35:02.240 --> 00:35:04.960 think of all the moving parts and the businesses and all the all the things 521 00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:08.860 that I could automate, there are other things which have less chance of going 522 00:35:08.860 --> 00:35:13.160 wrong that I automate the things where I need a human pair of eyes. I try not 523 00:35:13.160 --> 00:35:13.840 to automate 524 00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:19.450 we automate a lot of the reporting. So we obviously right, we send out these 525 00:35:19.450 --> 00:35:23.500 emails and we have all the follow ups that go out as well. So the team when 526 00:35:23.500 --> 00:35:27.900 we first started were put in ones and zeros in spreadsheets so that we could 527 00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:31.610 count how many emails we sent out. So we've automated a lot of that of that 528 00:35:31.610 --> 00:35:35.720 process. The other things that we also make is our own outreach for our own 529 00:35:35.720 --> 00:35:39.660 prospecting as well. That's all automated. But the main bulk of our 530 00:35:39.670 --> 00:35:44.590 booking agents time is reporting and just keeping on top of the admin. So 531 00:35:44.590 --> 00:35:47.520 we're looking at ways to further improve the admin. You know, we 532 00:35:47.520 --> 00:35:51.530 shortlist podcast, they have to go through an approval level, the the 533 00:35:51.530 --> 00:35:54.910 emails that are drafted, They go through an approval level. So a lot of 534 00:35:54.910 --> 00:35:58.460 the back end stuff we we automate. But if you're doing this as an individual, 535 00:35:58.470 --> 00:36:02.450 you're lucky. You don't have to worry about all this stuff. We we have to 536 00:36:02.450 --> 00:36:06.530 worry about it when we're working with dozens and dozens of customers and 537 00:36:06.530 --> 00:36:11.580 campaigns at the time. What do you suggest for your customers who have 538 00:36:11.580 --> 00:36:16.420 landed on a show successfully? Given a good talk podcast podcast gets 539 00:36:16.420 --> 00:36:21.190 published? Is there any follow up recommendations you make for them to 540 00:36:21.190 --> 00:36:22.060 follow up with hosts? 541 00:36:23.130 --> 00:36:26.350 Yeah, absolutely. We we always recommend that you follow up with the 542 00:36:26.350 --> 00:36:31.040 host. You know, I'm so amazed that even myself when I speak on podcast, I don't 543 00:36:31.040 --> 00:36:34.750 get an email to say that the podcast has even gone live. So there's so much 544 00:36:34.750 --> 00:36:37.890 opportunity here. So follow up with the podcast host as soon as you finish the 545 00:36:37.890 --> 00:36:41.960 interview, say thank you. Um, and then when that interview goes live, you know, 546 00:36:41.970 --> 00:36:46.610 it doesn't take you much to repurpose that content, whether that's just 547 00:36:46.610 --> 00:36:50.740 sharing a link on social media and tagging the, the podcast hosting it, 548 00:36:50.750 --> 00:36:54.670 working with a company like us, which we repurpose the content as well. So 549 00:36:54.680 --> 00:36:57.710 that's another service that we offer. And then you're basically helping the 550 00:36:57.710 --> 00:37:01.980 podcast host get their name out there even more because it's a mutual benefit 551 00:37:01.980 --> 00:37:05.910 to do So. And then also, you know, if you've got, if you've got piers that 552 00:37:05.910 --> 00:37:09.460 would make a great interview guests, just suggest them to the podcast host 553 00:37:09.460 --> 00:37:12.620 as well. You've just spent 45 minutes, maybe even an hour and a half. If 554 00:37:12.620 --> 00:37:15.820 you've done a pre interview call with the host, you've got an idea of who 555 00:37:15.820 --> 00:37:18.650 they like to speak to them, what they're like as a person. I'm sure you 556 00:37:18.650 --> 00:37:22.340 can think of two or three people that you could recommend. Um, so we try and 557 00:37:22.340 --> 00:37:25.450 encourage that, but people are busy. Not everybody does it, but we do try 558 00:37:25.450 --> 00:37:28.560 and encourage that. Gosh, that makes a lot of sense. It almost makes me wonder 559 00:37:28.560 --> 00:37:32.780 if like this, this whole process for a better, if you're like, have a friend, 560 00:37:32.780 --> 00:37:35.870 have a coworker, have somebody else doing it with you so that you can 561 00:37:35.870 --> 00:37:40.090 always be recommending that person afterwards and you might be able to get 562 00:37:40.100 --> 00:37:43.160 more. I mean, maybe not a coworker because they just had you as a 563 00:37:43.160 --> 00:37:46.930 representative. But if you have a like minded company that you do a lot of 564 00:37:46.930 --> 00:37:50.780 work with, it could be an easy win win for both of you if you're both going at 565 00:37:50.780 --> 00:37:55.420 it at the same time. Certainly, certainly. And what else you can do? 566 00:37:55.420 --> 00:37:58.550 Like I said, repurpose that that interview into multiple pieces of 567 00:37:58.550 --> 00:38:01.530 content. And I think a lot of people just think, okay, well we'll share that 568 00:38:01.530 --> 00:38:05.720 on social media, but we're we say, well, no, there's so many more places you can 569 00:38:05.720 --> 00:38:09.030 share it. I've worked with companies before who said, Mark, we don't know 570 00:38:09.030 --> 00:38:12.290 what's put in the newsletter, but in the podcast interview, you've got 571 00:38:12.290 --> 00:38:15.190 prospects that are sitting in your pipeline that have gone cold. Send them 572 00:38:15.190 --> 00:38:17.820 a podcast interview where you're talking about overcoming a challenge 573 00:38:17.820 --> 00:38:21.710 that you know, that they have use it in your customer marketing as well. There 574 00:38:21.710 --> 00:38:24.920 are so many ways and so many avenues to reuse each interview. And that's why I 575 00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:28.630 believe it's just so powerful and going back full circle to the top. That's why 576 00:38:28.630 --> 00:38:33.370 it's become even more popular of in the last year or so. Oh, we're big 577 00:38:33.370 --> 00:38:36.590 believers and splintering out content and getting it out there all over the 578 00:38:36.590 --> 00:38:39.800 place. And I could probably do a whole another episode and just all the places 579 00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:45.170 where upon an old podcast episode could live and be useful. But is there kind 580 00:38:45.170 --> 00:38:48.300 of tight things up? Is there anything else a question I didn't ask? Or 581 00:38:48.300 --> 00:38:51.650 something else that you think would be really useful for the audience if they 582 00:38:51.660 --> 00:38:56.810 before they go on themselves and start walking through this process Yeah. The 583 00:38:56.820 --> 00:39:02.580 one step that we support our customers with, but as much as we can is that 584 00:39:02.580 --> 00:39:07.280 preparation for the interview I think if you if you don't prepare and you're 585 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:10.940 you're not practice yeah, you're not prepared for the interview, it's not 586 00:39:10.940 --> 00:39:14.850 going to go as well as you think it should. So we always recommend that you 587 00:39:14.850 --> 00:39:18.530 have a pre interview conversation to discuss the topics with the podcast 588 00:39:18.530 --> 00:39:22.160 host before the interview. That gives you a bit of time to prepare your 589 00:39:22.160 --> 00:39:27.600 answers and also it removes any anxiety of being asked to, you know, answer 590 00:39:27.600 --> 00:39:33.000 some left field questions. Listen to a couple of episodes, at least two 591 00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:36.490 episodes before I've been caught out before Down with a quick fire round at 592 00:39:36.490 --> 00:39:40.570 the end and it was like what was my childhood superhero, and if I didn't do 593 00:39:40.570 --> 00:39:43.620 this job, what would I be doing? And it just completely threw me off because I 594 00:39:43.620 --> 00:39:47.450 didn't realize that those questions were coming up, although the, you know 595 00:39:47.450 --> 00:39:50.740 the content and the interview was fine, it was just that that at the end and it 596 00:39:50.750 --> 00:39:53.050 yeah, just complete three months. So hopefully you're not gonna do that to 597 00:39:53.050 --> 00:39:57.120 me today. Practice your intro, how you introduce yourself and how you set the 598 00:39:57.120 --> 00:40:01.060 scene, the topics that you want to talk about. Practice the stories and the 599 00:40:01.060 --> 00:40:04.540 anecdotes and the results that you can you can share as you talk about the 600 00:40:04.540 --> 00:40:09.150 topics and then practice your call to action as well. So what are you going 601 00:40:09.150 --> 00:40:12.030 to say at the end of the podcast? Where are you going to direct audience 602 00:40:12.030 --> 00:40:15.670 listeners to? And we've actually speaking podcast, we've partnered with 603 00:40:15.670 --> 00:40:20.430 this amazing presentation coach and every customer that we work with gets a 604 00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:24.790 session with Susie that we pay for because it's in our interest for our 605 00:40:24.790 --> 00:40:28.350 customers to feel confident, go and deliver a great interview because 606 00:40:28.350 --> 00:40:31.680 they'll have a better experience and they'll want to come back for more. So 607 00:40:31.680 --> 00:40:34.680 yeah, if you need to, if you need a recommendation for a coach, I'd be more 608 00:40:34.680 --> 00:40:39.160 than happy to, to to make those recommendations to. Awesome. Yeah. Just 609 00:40:39.160 --> 00:40:44.550 for fun. And I'll ask you for her her website or her details. We could throw 610 00:40:44.550 --> 00:40:48.640 a link to her, her stuff in the show notes to. Of course, yeah. Suzy 611 00:40:48.640 --> 00:40:52.890 Ashfield that speak to impact. She's fantastic. Really is good. I can share 612 00:40:52.890 --> 00:40:55.510 the link with you after as well. Down Mark, thank you so much for joining me 613 00:40:55.510 --> 00:40:59.690 on the show today. Where can people go to learn more about this from you? 614 00:40:59.700 --> 00:41:04.770 Brilliant. So, the best place to find me is speak on podcast dot com. And if 615 00:41:04.770 --> 00:41:08.320 you go to speak on podcast dot com forward slash B two B. There'll be a 616 00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:13.260 special page just to the audience listeners of this, this interview where 617 00:41:13.270 --> 00:41:16.680 I'll put the whole guide of how you can do this yourself as well as a couple of 618 00:41:16.680 --> 00:41:20.660 email templates, the reporting sheet and dan. What we're going to do just 619 00:41:20.660 --> 00:41:25.140 for the listeners is if you send us your website and your target market, 620 00:41:25.210 --> 00:41:28.510 we'll go and do a bit of research and send you to our free podcast that we 621 00:41:28.510 --> 00:41:32.080 think would make a great fit for you and we'll give you that for free. Thank 622 00:41:32.080 --> 00:41:36.260 you. That is generous, Mark. It has been a fantastic episode. Thank you so 623 00:41:36.260 --> 00:41:40.510 much for putting together those resources for our audience and talking 624 00:41:40.510 --> 00:41:44.920 about this with me today. Thanks for joining me on GDP growth, cheers down. 625 00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:46.520 It's been a pleasure to be an awesome thank you. 626 00:41:49.610 --> 00:41:55.750 Mhm Gary V says it all the time and we agree every company should think of 627 00:41:55.750 --> 00:42:01.530 themselves as a media company first, then whatever it is they actually do if 628 00:42:01.530 --> 00:42:05.470 you know this is true, but your team is already maxed out and you can't produce 629 00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:09.630 any more content in house. We can help, we produce podcasts for some of the 630 00:42:09.630 --> 00:42:13.910 most innovative BB brands in the world and we also help them turn the content 631 00:42:13.910 --> 00:42:18.730 from the podcast and blog posts, micro videos and slide decks that work really 632 00:42:18.730 --> 00:42:22.350 well on linked in. If you want to learn more, go to sweet fish Media dot com 633 00:42:22.350 --> 00:42:26.440 slash launch or email Logan at sweet fish media dot com.