April 25, 2022

Where's the Proof? with Cristy Garcia

In this episode, Benji talks to Cristy Ebert Garcia, CMO at Impact.com.

It's one thing to say we need to tie revenue to our marketing efforts, it's another to put a plan in place that executes on it consistently. Today Cristy provides her thoughts on attribution and how to discuss marketing with the C-suite.

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:16.679 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth. This 2 00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:20.719 is be tob growth coming to you from just outside Austin, Texas. I'm 3 00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:25.679 your host, Benjie Block, and today joining me from Nashville, Tennessee Director 4 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:29.800 of growth here at sweetfish, Dan Sanchez, and from Louisville, Kentucky, 5 00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:33.880 our creative content lead, Emily Brady. How's it going, guys? Going 6 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:37.479 great, Benjie, Whoo, Whoo, I like that cheer. They're all 7 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:43.920 right. So we are back. This is week two of us doing something 8 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:49.159 new and bringing topics from around marketing that the three of us are paying attention 9 00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:52.359 to. There's always a lot going on. We're on Linkedin, we're reading 10 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:57.560 books and blogs or obviously, having conversations on podcasts, and so there's so 11 00:00:57.640 --> 00:01:00.119 much content out there. We want to just have a little round table discussion. 12 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:03.920 Emily, what are you looking at this week? Yeah, I saw 13 00:01:03.959 --> 00:01:08.079 a post from Jaakenzo on Linkedin and he said we need to fix how we 14 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:12.959 interview executives on our shows, because a lot of times they've already been interviewed 15 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:18.799 on several shows or they're coached in what to say. So we don't need 16 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:23.040 to be asked the same questions they've been asked before or a question that's easy 17 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:26.760 to come up with a canned answer. So I thought this was interesting and 18 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:30.400 I was curious about both of your takes on it because you both post podcasts. 19 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:36.400 So what is your approach to especially when you're interviewing executives? How do 20 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:45.000 you get different answers? Yep, great question. So I think it's there's 21 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:48.920 always going to be difficulty. Right, you can't all I loved some of 22 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:52.480 what Jay was saying, specifically at the end of like surprise them with a 23 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:57.640 question that it pulls, that something that you know they're passionate about, but 24 00:01:57.640 --> 00:01:59.959 it's maybe a little bit out of left field, so you're not going to 25 00:01:59.959 --> 00:02:02.719 get the can answer. What's hard about that is, I've found as I've 26 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:07.200 been reaching out to lots of these people and having them on the show, 27 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:12.000 you don't always know a lot about that person. The pre interview helps, 28 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:16.360 but striking a chord, like finding that passionate thing that then also somehow ties 29 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:21.879 into where you want to take it isn't always like obviously takes digging. That's 30 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:24.520 our job as podcast sose but that's my kind of first thought. is like 31 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:30.120 it's when someone isn't posting consistently on Linkedin and you've never met the person in 32 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:35.719 real life. Like that's why we don't always have a unique lane. Sometimes 33 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:38.240 it comes out later and in the show, and that's always awesome because it 34 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:43.879 adds a human touch. But to me this is part of the art of 35 00:02:43.879 --> 00:02:47.680 podcasting, is like can we get there and continue to get better, even 36 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:51.000 though I would say this is one of the most difficult things. Like where 37 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:53.360 do we jump in? Like how do we actually begin? Daniette, have 38 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:58.400 you felt that same sort of tension? Now? I actually have a counterpoint 39 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:00.520 to what Jay said, and I think what I said is actually good for 40 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:05.719 some shows not for others. So here's what I'm thinking. Like there's a 41 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:09.639 show called hot ones where the host does a freaking like he's the epitome of 42 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:13.759 asking great questions that keep people that get interviewed a lot, which is a 43 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:17.319 lot of celebrities, right, movie stars, famous cooks like Gordon Ramsey, 44 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:22.639 and like all the most famous people right. He interviews a wide variety of 45 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:27.039 people that are very, I don't know, interesting to listen to. So 46 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.400 he has to come up with good questions other than the Gimmick of the hot 47 00:03:30.439 --> 00:03:36.560 sauce, of the you know eat taking bites of ten increasingly hot, hotter, 48 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:40.280 hot wings like he asked really good questions and that's what it's like. 49 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:44.599 The the novelty of the hot sauce gets people onto the show, but it's 50 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:47.400 the questions that keep people listening to that show because he's so good at asking 51 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:51.680 questions. Not all shows are like that, though. If you have a 52 00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:55.879 show that's focused on a very small niche and a very particular topic, you 53 00:03:55.879 --> 00:04:00.840 could also curate it based on what you know has also already been set on 54 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:05.000 the show and think about it more from your audiences perspective less from the audience 55 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:09.680 of that select of the person you're having on, even if someone gets interviewed 56 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:13.439 a lot, because if you're asking them different questions for the sake of that 57 00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:16.360 person, you're doing it for them and for their audience, which is good. 58 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:18.600 You want to invite some of that audience onto your show, but at 59 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:21.680 the same time, well, what about your audience? Maybe your audience hasn't 60 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:27.279 heard that person speel yet. If you haven't as a host, then it's 61 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:30.879 it's likely that your audience hasn't either. So you could literally run through the 62 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:33.360 same things and it would be okay, is a great no, but at 63 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:36.279 the same time you have to consider all your other priorities that you have gone 64 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:40.519 on. Can you put in the five to ten hours of research of listening 65 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:46.439 to the last three interviews they were on, going deep to the Google search 66 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:49.360 to find blog posts they've contributed to, articles they've written to find all their 67 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:53.959 different points of views or things you could dive in on? And one last 68 00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:57.879 thing that I'd say is that if you're also a subject matter expert in that 69 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.279 topic, chances are you're going to be able to dive into the weeds in 70 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:04.399 a way a lot of hosts don't. I've been listening to an expert recently 71 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:09.839 across multiple topics where he is repeating the same stuff and I can tell the 72 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:13.079 host that are talking to him when they are subject matter experts, because they're 73 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:15.480 diving into the weeds and I'm like, Oh, this is getting good at 74 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:17.759 getting nitty gritty because and they didn't do it because of a day amount of 75 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:20.800 research, they just did it because they knew which questions to ask, naturally. 76 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:24.120 So the more you're a subject matter expert, the more you're going to 77 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:26.480 be able to dive into the weeds of what they're saying and I think that 78 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:30.959 will cover a lot of itself. See, that's that's where I feel like 79 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:34.759 it comes out more often, is in the follow up questions. So to 80 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:40.720 me, like knowing exactly where to start, like because you have your consistent 81 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:46.079 audience. They need context for who that person is and sometimes you can have 82 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:48.680 like I just don't think it's a fast, hard and fast rule. I 83 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:53.279 think the way that, at least for me, it when I'm conducting interviews. 84 00:05:53.319 --> 00:05:58.199 You can tell where something's going and I feel like great hosts have questions 85 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:02.480 that they want to ask and then also so consense in someone else's emotion when 86 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:08.040 their interest is peak. So even, just an example for a BB growth 87 00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:11.360 episode, I had somebody on when I was in my research phase, right 88 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:14.959 Dan, and I'm going back and I'm listening one of their old podcasts and 89 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:17.680 I got to this question that that host asked this person and I was like, 90 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:20.519 that's what they're passionate about. You can tell, you can tell that 91 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:24.279 they want to talk about it. And then there was no follow up question. 92 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:26.399 So I just made a note of that and when I jumped on the 93 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:29.399 pre interview. I said, Hey, I just listened to this conversation you 94 00:06:29.399 --> 00:06:32.240 had. Are you passionate about this? Because it felt like we could have 95 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:35.160 gone deeper on this other show that I was listening to, which you are 96 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:38.639 great on, by the way, but do you can we make a whole 97 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:44.079 episode on that one question? And they lit up and they like that lasted 98 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:47.240 twenty thirty minutes of our pre interview just talking about going further down that road. 99 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:50.439 So yeah, I don't know, emily, what are what are your 100 00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:55.240 thoughts from outside, because you're you're not hosting a show right now, but 101 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:58.879 this post Pique your interest? Yeah, well, follow up question, because 102 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:00.600 I feel like I'm hearing two different strategies here. Do you guys think it's 103 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:06.480 better to research the guests extensively as much as you can and then come with 104 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:13.199 customized questions, or to just have really unique questions to begin with that you 105 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:16.279 ask every single person? That's kind of why podcasting is great. It's like 106 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:19.240 we all have our own unique flavor. So, like, I love what 107 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:24.360 Jay's saying, but I wouldn't apply it to every episode. I do like 108 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:28.720 sometimes I'll use that strategy because I know this is good. Like they're already 109 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:31.839 a good conversationalist taking more into account, whereas, like, if I asked 110 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:36.279 an off the wall question to somebody that's more buttoned up, that could throw 111 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:43.800 the whole interview like you got to have strong emotional intelligence to do podcasting well, 112 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:46.680 because some people literally send me back when I send them the questions. 113 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:49.519 They send me back like a script of what they want to talk about, 114 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:53.600 and then it's my job to ask good follow up questions that will still make 115 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:57.240 it seem human, but that helps them that they wrote that much. Other 116 00:07:57.319 --> 00:08:01.920 conversations it's like the exact opposite. If I send them too many questions, 117 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:07.600 they're like, I thought this was conversational. So it's more about emotional intelligence. 118 00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:11.000 To me, that makes you a good host and knowing how that person 119 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:16.319 gets comfortable. Then it is about going hard and fast rule. Every single 120 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:20.399 time I do a podcast I have this wildly unique question I ask my guests 121 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:26.839 that I don't know that the hard and fast rule works right. This maybe 122 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:30.240 is a more of a question for you, Benjie, but when you're researching 123 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:33.559 your guest, if, let's say, you can't find anything on Linkedin, 124 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.480 they're not active there, where do you dig? What other platforms do you 125 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:41.120 dig for those passions that they have or topics that they want to talk all 126 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:46.720 aside from actually talking to them? Well, so, because it's like specifically 127 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:52.600 a marketing podcast, and I'm talking like CMOS primarily, or directors of marketing 128 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:56.080 right here on BB Growth Eur. Audience knows that welcome to be to be 129 00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:00.559 growth. So I think the way my brain thinks about it is like anything 130 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:05.840 that is on their website is content that they've created has some sort of purview 131 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:09.320 of the person I'm probably talking to. So like I could just bring up 132 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:13.600 recent blog posts, I can just look at recent things that they've been working 133 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:16.799 on. Sometimes I'll look at especially because we're kind of just finishing quarter one 134 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:20.039 or where. I guess we're in quarter to now, but I was looking 135 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:24.440 at like last year's reviews to see highlight moments and things like that, just 136 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:30.120 so there's some sort of level of intelligence on what their world looks like, 137 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:33.960 even if it's not specific to the person the company more broadly, like if 138 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:37.639 they're that high up, they are there thinking about that stuff all the time, 139 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:41.960 like it's their life. So that's a good way. And then also 140 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:45.200 I try to check platforms that aren't linkedin like I look up. I looked 141 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:50.799 them up on instagram or facebook, just things that are more human to see 142 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:54.639 what their passions are outside, because I've had pre interviews that go really long 143 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:58.000 because we end up talking about running because they see that I have like my 144 00:09:58.039 --> 00:10:01.879 marathon bib behind me, or I've talked about Africa a lot because I grew 145 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:05.120 up overseas, so that'll come up sometimes and we just get a good back 146 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:09.840 and forth going that way. Dan, do you think there's value in starting 147 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:13.200 the episode by asking their background, or do you just jump right into it? 148 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:16.440 I've done it both ways and sometimes I don't know both both can be 149 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:20.600 really good. Sometimes not knowing what exactly what you're going to be talking about 150 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.320 leads to really good content. Those episodes tend to run long, though, 151 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:28.480 like Joe Rogan does it, but he goes for three hours because he has 152 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:31.840 to give it the time to unpack for lack of preparation on the front end. 153 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:35.200 He has to do long interviews, but that's his style and it's worked 154 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:37.960 for him. I honestly feel like there's so many avenues to win and you 155 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:41.279 have to think about it as far as like, okay, if I think 156 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:46.840 what Jay's reacting to is that so many people do it without preparation for executives 157 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:52.519 that it would be a huge differentiating factor if a show did, especially if 158 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:56.919 they were executives that were really popular, like the CMO of gone, who 159 00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:01.399 interviews a lot. So if you're interviewing executives like that all the time and 160 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.759 that's like the main type of audience you or type of guests you have on 161 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:09.240 your show, then you could be he have a huge differentiating factor by being 162 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:11.159 the kind of show that prepares a lot with good questions. But if the 163 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:15.159 market was the other way then you could just do the Joe Rogan thing and 164 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:16.759 go off the cuff and it would give a whole different angle. There's so 165 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:20.960 many different ways to win and it's nice to know what the options are so 166 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:24.279 you can kind of use them to kind of figure out where the less crowded 167 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:30.759 spaces I got to say, because we have a lot of marketers listening to 168 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:35.000 this show right now. If you are a cmo or you are someone that 169 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:39.519 is on other shows often, just think about the fact that a can response 170 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:43.440 might not be your best thing, even if you get the same questions recurringly, 171 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:46.399 like don't can your answer all the time. You can also like play 172 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:52.000 with the host right by allowing there to be a good back and forth. 173 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:54.600 So I don't want to just talk to like the podcast hosts because we might 174 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:56.799 have a smaller audience. Of that here on be to be growth, but 175 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:01.840 for those that are interacting with the shows or even as you think of your 176 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:05.720 marketing strategy, it's great to know what you do, but there's a human 177 00:12:05.720 --> 00:12:11.240 element to like being able to explain it in a way that's not so canned, 178 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:16.120 that you actually can showcase that you're passionate about it and the why behind 179 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:18.960 it. So I think this is a really fun conversation. Emily, anything 180 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:22.720 you want to throw in here at the end before we sort of wrap this 181 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:26.360 up and send it to the interview? I think I'm good. I think 182 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:28.519 I'm ready to start a podcast you guys, after this. Let's go. 183 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:35.840 We need an Emily Brady podcast. Yeah, this has been a great conversation 184 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.039 and sexually you made me realize that there's a whole nother factor that you can 185 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:41.279 use a differentiated podcast. Is something that I hadn't considered before, but I'm 186 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:45.639 like, Dang, there are lots of ways that win here. So even 187 00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:48.360 just walking away from this conversation, I'm like, all right, another tool 188 00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:52.320 in the tool bell in order to recommend a customers or just people out there 189 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:56.440 on Linkedin, or now I'm by GIBI growth. Lots of ways to win. 190 00:12:56.480 --> 00:13:00.600 I like that. Well, we would love to hear your thoughts. 191 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:05.919 You can dm all of us over on Linkedin interact with the content we're putting 192 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:09.759 out over there, or you can find me on instagram. I was just 193 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:13.799 advocating for finding people on other platforms, but that's somewhere else that I'm pretty 194 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:16.440 active, and I know emily is over on ticktock all the time. So 195 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.120 feel free to reach out any time to any of the three of us. 196 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.559 All right, so we are on to today's conversation. It's an interview that 197 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:30.960 I did with Christy Ebert Garcia. She's the chief marketing officer at IMPACTCOM. 198 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:35.919 This conversation is one on the importance of measurement in our marketing efforts. I 199 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:39.480 know you'll enjoy it, so check this out. Welcome back to be to 200 00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:43.360 be growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block, and today we are joined 201 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:50.200 by Christy Ebert Garcia. She is the CM at impactcom. Christy, welcome 202 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:52.759 into be to be growth UNJEE. Thank you, it's so great to be 203 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:56.480 here. Thanks for having me on the show. It's great to have you 204 00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:01.679 here and a congratulations is in order because just a couple months back you became 205 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:07.840 the CMO at impact. So congratulations there. Thanks. Very exciting for sure, 206 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:11.559 and we would definitely want to tap into the wealth of wisdom that you 207 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:18.639 have. So let's start here, though. You have this career in marketing 208 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:22.240 and I just want to know what's been your baby, your favorite part, 209 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.200 something that distinctly sort of stands out from your career so far in marketing. 210 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:31.240 That's hard because there's so many things. I'll say that I've never wanted to 211 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:35.000 be anything else besides a CMO. That's all I've ever wanted, and so 212 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:39.360 I love I love marketing. I'm a lifelong learner. I study it, 213 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:43.000 it's my hobby, it's my passion and I'm really glad too, I've been 214 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:48.399 given the opportunity by impactcom to take this next, next step. But for 215 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:52.759 me, I'd say if I had to nail down to like one particular thing, 216 00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:58.840 it would be watching the members of my team become leaders on team. 217 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:03.000 So when we start it. Four years ago at this company we had seven 218 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:07.840 marketers and now we have sixty. So some of the marketers that we've hired 219 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.600 have had to take on a lot more responsibility and, you know, take 220 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:15.759 on their own teams and sometimes most of them are first time managers, and 221 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:18.320 I can't tell you how ourwarding it is to see the work that they're doing 222 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:22.960 and just the confidence that they've been able to kind of build and just makes 223 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:24.720 me really proud. So I think that's my yeah, it's always fun to 224 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:30.000 watch that development. Right, for sure, definitely. Okay, so I 225 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:33.759 want to I mean, there's so much in marketing we could talk about right. 226 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:37.799 There's a lot of good but there's also some pretty consistent tensions and I 227 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:43.000 want to talk about that a bit here. One of the tensions we definitely 228 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:46.080 feel as how do we prove the value that we're adding, and this is 229 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:50.600 talked about in the be tob space scroll linkedin. We're talking about it. 230 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:56.080 How have you personally kind of experience that tension throughout your career? It's a 231 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:00.000 good question to have. So proving performance as a marketer is a lot easier 232 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:03.639 than it used to be, and that's largely thanks to the attribution tools that 233 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:07.000 have come out and pretty much everything is trackable, which is which is cool, 234 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:10.279 but it's still a challenge and I think one way to overcome that, 235 00:16:10.360 --> 00:16:14.960 and it's also my favorite way of holding myself another's accountable, is really simple. 236 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.240 Say what you're going to do, do it and then share the results, 237 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.559 even if they aren't what you had hoped for, especially if they aren't 238 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:25.039 what you would hope for, and in that way it's important to set expectations 239 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:29.279 with your leadership team and your manager of what you'll accomplish and you build trust 240 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:32.200 by saying this didn't work the way that we wanted it too, but here's 241 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:34.320 what we learned and and so we're going to try it again right. Only 242 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:41.080 highlighting the good stuff or being defensive about missteps or blaming others is the number 243 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:45.840 one way to fail and I've seen CMOS make it time time and time again. 244 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:48.799 But you really should have goals for all of the campaigns that you're running 245 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:55.080 and then be able to show numbers and looking at things lower funnel like pipeline 246 00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:57.919 opportunities, creation, let's say, and revenue. It's not hard to do 247 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:02.279 and it really keeps the team focused on you know the right behaviors in the 248 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:07.240 right results. So that's that's sort of how we take it in here at 249 00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:11.880 impactcom. Yeah, I think it's one thing to say we gotta tie revenue 250 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:15.519 to our marketing efforts, but it's sort of another thing to put a plan 251 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:21.319 in place that executes on that. You haven't always maybe been a part of 252 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:25.640 marketing teams that just excel right at measuring Roy. You're right, the tools 253 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:30.839 are coming and they're better than ever, but measuring Roy, having proof of 254 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:34.519 how valuable you are, very important. When did this light bulb sort of 255 00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:38.720 go off in your head, and I wonder if there was like a distinct 256 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:41.400 moment or if it's just been over time, or maybe it's the way you've 257 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:45.359 always been wired. I don't know. Now I don't think I'm naturally wired 258 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:49.160 that way, but I'd say from the very beginning I knew it was important. 259 00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.599 So my first job in marketing and when I first joined, I watched 260 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:57.079 some sales leaders at that company Complain About Marketing, saying that, you know, 261 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:00.720 the team wasn't doing a lot or you know, the were' driving leads 262 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:03.920 or my boss at the time wanted us to list out everything we had done 263 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.200 so that he could then, you know, share it with, I guess, 264 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:10.480 his leaders in the sales team. But really what it what it was 265 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:14.359 was it became a laundry list of these tasks, but it didn't answer the 266 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:17.640 so what questions. Like you wrote a piece of content like so what. 267 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:19.200 What did you do with it? What did you see from it? We 268 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:23.240 didn't have those answers and and so it caused frictions. But from then on 269 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:27.440 I realized it's not about the number of items and tasks, it's the impact 270 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:33.480 from those items. In the biggest impact in every organization is incremental revenue. 271 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:36.599 So marketing should be driving it and should be able to report on that outcome. 272 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:40.240 Otherwise it's just, you know, so what. So that's really how 273 00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:42.119 I think about it. We're gonna have a lot of people in our audience 274 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:47.880 that are going, I have heard the so what so many times. So 275 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:52.279 you're you're talking to a choir right now in some ways. But okay. 276 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:57.720 So you experience that and now you're you're passionate about making sure that we measure. 277 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:03.119 So I wonder if we're just going, how does Christy measure? What 278 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:04.559 would you say to that, like what are the things that matter to you. 279 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:07.200 So the first thing is the you know, whenever you're measuring anything, 280 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.920 you need to benchmark against yourself. Like the the easy thing to do is 281 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:14.839 say what is it? What's an average open rate or what's an average CAC? 282 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:18.240 There's really no such thing in every industry and every company, every audience 283 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:22.720 type, it's different, and so comparing yourself against other companies, I think 284 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.079 it's important to know. You know, probably, but it's really important to 285 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:30.039 look at your own history of campaign. So each channel has its own on 286 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:33.000 set of metrics, and so what we do is we benchmark performance against ourselves. 287 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:36.839 We say things like pay search. Okay, let's say we expect a 288 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:40.680 minimum of one dollar and two dollars out and so if that channel isn't producing 289 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:44.359 that, then we know something's wrong. We're looking at email opens and click 290 00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:48.759 grades and paid social performance and direct buys, and these are all measured against 291 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:52.759 past campaigns like month over month, quarter, reporter year, every year, 292 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:55.960 and so that way we know how many leads were going to be expecting from 293 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:57.400 those channels and what we need, you know, and then how to get 294 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:02.599 them. But it's important to not be over confident in your media mix or 295 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:06.079 start to get, like, really complacent, because new channels and marketing strategies 296 00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:11.480 are created all the time and technology makes that possible, and so you really 297 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:14.279 just need to see on your toes and spend a lot of time researching a 298 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.200 new path to conversion, because your mix today is going to look a lot 299 00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:19.720 different than your mix six months from today and you need to stay on it 300 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:23.079 if you want to be successful. The other thing that I am lucky, 301 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:27.920 I'm very fortunate at this company to have a dedicated OPS team, marketing ops, 302 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:32.079 and so they keep me updated. There's not a day in the week 303 00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:36.160 that I don't know what channels are driving pipeline and what what which ones aren't, 304 00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:38.519 and that's really important for all marketing leaders to know. But you know, 305 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:41.640 some of us have dedicated people for that and other others don't. They 306 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:45.160 have to do it themselves. So it's easy for me to say that. 307 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:49.839 Yeah, I think it's so interesting because you were talking about like six months 308 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:52.799 from today, how much things will change. But also, when we look 309 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:57.359 back, before we were really tracking or knew what how, a lot there 310 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:02.279 wasn't as much conversation around attribut you should models, and also there's a lot 311 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:06.519 of research out now that talks about that on average takes bake what eight touch 312 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:10.079 points. So there's a lot right. There's a lot of time and a 313 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:12.799 lot of effort, a lot of different content pieces. How, when you're 314 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:15.680 thinking of these things that you're tracking, how do you how does that maybe 315 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:22.799 factor into your attribution model? Well, there are definitely eight different touch points 316 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:26.319 and that's been fairly consistent when you're looking at our touch points. But I'd 317 00:21:26.359 --> 00:21:32.599 say track everything you can. The ultimate measure of performances are pipeline and closed 318 00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:34.720 one revenue. So in order to see that, we need to look at 319 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:38.920 things like mql's as leading indicators. It could take a full year before a 320 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:45.880 deal is closed and be to be especially with some complex sales processes. So 321 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:48.000 we need to assume that not everything is going to be visible right away. 322 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:51.519 It's not like you press a button in the next day you see exactly what 323 00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:55.759 happens. Some some of these different campaigns, and especially in B to be 324 00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:57.920 like, they take they take some time. So whatever you decide to measure, 325 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:02.319 just measure it consistently and use your own performance as benchmark, like I 326 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:04.960 said, but you also need to accept the fact that not everything is measurable. 327 00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:07.960 There's some things we want to do because it's is common sense right or 328 00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:11.160 based on experience, and we can't prove a direct line to revenue. So 329 00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:15.960 dark social will be a good example of this. Public Relations, big speaking 330 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:18.319 opportunities, brand campaigns. You know, people are seeing you on stage, 331 00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:23.160 they're seeing your logo and they're going to remember that somehow sometime, but you're 332 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:26.559 never going to be able to tie it back exactly to that particular incident. 333 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.000 So you have to be wherever your consumer is right and so you need to 334 00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:33.200 be all over those places, given how many touch points. But like, 335 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:38.319 will I know that one of our prospects is searching gt for reviews and that 336 00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:41.680 they say they saw the reviews and then they came and converted on the site, 337 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.160 like you know? Absolutely not, like you're never going to know that. 338 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:48.359 But do we still invest time and budget on optimizing our GT listing and 339 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:52.279 page? Like? Sure, because we know that consumers are looking at review 340 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:56.000 sites and the same is true for social media and other other media. So 341 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.799 it's really just about using common sense, drawing from your experience and looking at 342 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:03.720 past performance. Is there anything that you feel like, when you look at 343 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:07.440 what we measure when you were you mean knowing that you're talking to a room 344 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:11.319 full of marketers right now. Do you think there's something that we need to 345 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:15.799 kind of quit doing in our marketing measurement? I would say the vanity metrics 346 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:21.880 are are sort of you know, I don't see those being really concrete like 347 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:26.039 standards are indicators of performance. So I've never been a big let's look at 348 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:29.720 the impressions and sort of just make assumptions based on the fact that we had 349 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:33.279 a million views on something like it's I like the moving to outcomes type of 350 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:37.559 model where you're looking at like the acquisition, the conversion, and so I 351 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:41.960 try to see on money and channels that can provide that for me versus like 352 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:45.240 maybe display or, you know, even some for targeting, where you just 353 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:48.680 you're never going to get that satisfaction of knowing someone actually clicked. But you 354 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:52.920 know, not to discredit those channels at all, but we you need to 355 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:56.599 partner with your sales team, I think mostly, and yeah, especially for 356 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:00.640 the big targeted like account base marketing campaigns. They may not answer a phone 357 00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:04.880 call but they'll open an email or vice versa. So I don't know if 358 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:08.319 that answers the question. But no, I definitely does. It definitely does. 359 00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:14.160 So I one thing that I think there's a breakdown in is the way 360 00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:18.200 that marketing maybe talks to other departments about what they're doing. That was a 361 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:21.960 problem in your story earlier, right when you started to realize this. Oh 362 00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:26.720 we have this list and so what? Let's talk about these two different groups. 363 00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:29.960 Right. So there's how we communicate with sales and then there's also how 364 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:34.920 marketing communicates with the C suite when we're thinking about our attribution and all of 365 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.920 this. In your current organization you're blessed with a great relationship. I know 366 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:45.039 from previous conversation with you you guys get along really well, but talk me 367 00:24:45.200 --> 00:24:49.759 through a little bit of what that relationship like looks like and your guys conversations 368 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:53.799 around attribution. Maybe we can glean some things, learn some things from that. 369 00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:59.039 Yeah, so I would say the conversations with the sales team and with 370 00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:03.519 my marketing team and with the executive team are different. So for my marketing 371 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:06.599 team, like will go deep, right. We'll say, okay, let's 372 00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:11.119 test the color of this cartoon person's hair on paid social to see if we 373 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:15.440 get better engagement if the hair color is brown. I mean that level of 374 00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:18.839 detail, AB testing, and all marketers do this right. It's not something 375 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.400 that so in all that time talking about, because who cares? Again, 376 00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:26.559 so what? But I do. But you're talking to a marketer. That's 377 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:30.400 a type of insights that you need right as a market doesn't necessarily mean your 378 00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:33.119 sales team needs at or the executive team needs to hear it. So it's 379 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:37.599 really understanding your audience, which is real number one of marketing. But when 380 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.599 I'm talking to the other executives in my company, we're looking at numbers. 381 00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:45.519 I mean we're talking about lessons learned, we're talking about kind of things that 382 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:48.720 we're excited about, what challenges exist, how can we overcome those challenges? 383 00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:51.720 And then, at the end of the day, like let's look at the 384 00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:55.920 retront on investment of the team. And so without sales there would be no 385 00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:59.920 return on investment. Like there is no unless it's an audit, you know, 386 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:03.440 an online sign up or something like. Marketing is not in Asilo. 387 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:07.880 But you're working with your teams, whether that's a Bedr or ae or, 388 00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.279 you know, at sales leaders, you're you need to be working together and 389 00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.119 so ensuring that they have what they need. The sales team has what they 390 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:18.480 need from the marketing team and that there's a feedback loop is critical to being 391 00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:22.240 successful. But they're all slightly different conversations and their nuance conversations. Let's go 392 00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:26.039 with the slightly different between sales and maybe a C suite, like is there 393 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:30.000 anything in particular there that you've noticed, because it is slightly different audiences, 394 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.200 but we're all still kind of generally want in sales and c suite or paying 395 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:37.880 attention to the bottom line and and the money. But I wonder if there's 396 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:41.799 any other nuances that you've become aware of. Yeah, I mean I think 397 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:48.079 the executive team sometimes can put marketing in to the sales bucket, like they 398 00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:51.960 may think costs of sales and market any team it's typically like a combined line 399 00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:56.119 item on your balance sheet. But marketing sales are so different, and so 400 00:26:56.279 --> 00:26:59.519 it's if you're talking to executives who don't have a marketing background her maybe we're 401 00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:02.799 sales peop like they might have a completely different view of what marketing does. 402 00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:04.640 Then what you know? Somebody with a marketing background would know. So I 403 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:08.359 would say when I'm having conversations with the sales team. We can. We 404 00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.960 can say, okay, let's basically coordinate touch points, like there's this big 405 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:17.079 campaign going out, you're going to get a notification from sales force when this 406 00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:19.920 happens and here's your response and we we've written up all these flows for you, 407 00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:25.400 guys, and objection handling and everything's being tracked by sales force and Marquetto 408 00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:29.640 and visible and and so it's definitely a lot more tactical. Some people, 409 00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:30.880 the executives, love to hear the details. Don't get me wrong. I 410 00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:36.720 mean we're I'm lucky to have founders that care very deeply about marketing, but 411 00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:40.440 there's so much going on at any given time in a marketing org of any 412 00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:45.599 company that it would be impossible to have those granular conversations about every project or 413 00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:49.519 campaign that you're working on. So save those for your team. Yep, 414 00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:55.440 Yep. One thing I find talking specifically with CMOS is that they often are 415 00:27:55.519 --> 00:28:00.279 the one in marketing that got whether it's promoted or the reason that they are 416 00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:06.799 there is because they're good at tying numbers to what they're doing. And then 417 00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:10.839 you have other marketers who maybe they have aspirations of building a career in a 418 00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:12.880 maybe even moving into a position like that, but that mindset shift, it's 419 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:15.640 like they're more focus on what you're talking about earlier, like the hair color 420 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:19.400 or the person in that is, and it showing them kind of like the 421 00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:25.200 whole picture, getting them interested in the numbers. It can be like a 422 00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:29.240 more difficult kind of thing. I wonder how you've specifically in your career seen 423 00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:33.000 the benefit it's of like moving into this model win, I'm going to be 424 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:36.759 able to prove our value. I'm going to go into the numbers and like 425 00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:40.960 show what we're doing overall for the growth of this company. Yeah, no, 426 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.119 I think marketing is one of those roles that everyone thinks that they can 427 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:48.640 do because everyone can come up with a great idea. Like there's there's some 428 00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.440 really you know, you get a bunch of people in a room like what 429 00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:52.839 do you think we should do for this advertisement? Like you're going to get 430 00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:56.279 some really cool ideas from people that aren't on the marketing team. Or I 431 00:28:56.279 --> 00:28:59.519 saw this at my old company. You know, there's a lot of that. 432 00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:03.559 But what makes marketers good is consistency. Like we have one hit wonders 433 00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:06.880 in the marketing world, right. I mean we have people that do a 434 00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:10.599 great campaign or advertising agencies to do a great campaign and then they sort of 435 00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:12.279 just disappear, a fall off the mountain and they can't repeat it. And 436 00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:18.440 so I like the small winds and being able to tie them to consistent performance 437 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:22.440 over time, and that's what every investor is looking for. Like what's repeatable 438 00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:26.519 about this model? I can go to my executive team and say, here's 439 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.480 what's repeatable about my model, like we're pulling from information and tracking that we've 440 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.839 had over the course of two years or three years or whatever, and I 441 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:37.599 can tell you that if we do Xy, is going to happen at a 442 00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:41.160 high level. Right, there's always, you know, kind of things that 443 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.759 come up and you don't know everything, but you should be able to have 444 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:48.839 a good sense of what you can do and it should be repeatable and scalable. 445 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:52.119 You know, every every now and then I have a great idea and 446 00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:55.880 I my team does and we say, okay, let's try it for this 447 00:29:55.920 --> 00:30:00.519 campaign and we realize it only works because it's bespoke and and that's great for 448 00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:03.640 your high value contacts, right. It's great for the CMOS that you're trying 449 00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:06.680 to reach, let's say, selling into, like they're probably not going to 450 00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:08.160 click on your ads, and so you have to come up with something really 451 00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:11.960 creative. But it's highly manual and that's okay, but if that's all you're 452 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:17.160 doing, you're going to have a hard time proving value. And the same 453 00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:21.079 if only you're doing this evergreen, always on marketing approach, the numbers go 454 00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:22.359 up and now and that's just that's just life. You know you're going to 455 00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:26.960 have an off month, like maybe something got stuck in paid searched and you 456 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:30.279 know a campaign got shut off, or maybe you know some news item happen 457 00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:34.160 and people aren't paying attention right now to what you're selling, and that's great. 458 00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:38.039 That's why you need that. You know that history of performance and that's 459 00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:41.200 what says the great mercury part. I love the words you use, their 460 00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:48.079 consistency, small winds, repeatable, scalable. I think that's definitely where the 461 00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:53.559 conversation should be. Not always does, isn't always where it is. Anything 462 00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:59.359 that you would say to let's say, hypothetically, I'm a director of marketing 463 00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:02.920 and I'm getting maybe some heat from the sea sweet because they want to see 464 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:06.839 proof of value. So we use these words right, consistency or small winds 465 00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:11.079 repeatable and if someone's going okay, I got to prove value, they're going 466 00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:14.440 Christy. Where should I start or what should I be tracking immediately? Like 467 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:18.279 what's that in road? Yeah, so it's like if you fail, the 468 00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:22.960 plan you you're going to you should plan to fail. Like there's Yo, 469 00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:26.400 there's not anything that you should be doing that doesn't have some sort of expected 470 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.400 outcome. Remember when we were in elementary school, maybe we had signed projects 471 00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.359 and we've always had to write our hypothesis of what was going to happen right 472 00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:36.680 at the same is true for every campaign that you launch. You should have 473 00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:41.200 what the goal is like, even if it's a small thing, because otherwise, 474 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:41.799 how do you know if you're doing a good job? How do you 475 00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:45.519 know if you hit that goal? So I would say if you're not doing 476 00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:48.440 those things, start doing them, especially to this hypothetical director of marketing, 477 00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:53.119 like before you launch anything, especially when you're spending money, you should have 478 00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:57.279 some form of forecasting of what's going to happen. How do you start? 479 00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:01.119 Well, you need to get some great tracking software or you need to make 480 00:32:01.160 --> 00:32:06.519 sure that you have others in the company like that you're working with that can 481 00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:09.200 speak to the success of the campaign, like working directly with your sales team, 482 00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:13.160 like understanding what it is that they need. Let them be the advocate 483 00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:15.000 for you. You know, I think you know, marketers don't have to 484 00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:17.119 run up and say, you know, look what I did, like put 485 00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:21.480 this on the refrigerator with a magnet, like you know. It's much better 486 00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:25.519 to have those third parties kind of come and say this was a really great 487 00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:29.759 team effort from marketing, and that's to me is I'll take that win any 488 00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:34.200 day the week. HMM. Was We start to wrap up here. I 489 00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:37.920 love again, I think the last few minutes here specifically, I'm going I 490 00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:44.839 we definitely the consistency pieces what makes great marketers stand out amongst just like good 491 00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:47.680 markers, because a lot of people do have that story. They could tell 492 00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:52.359 you about the one campaign they ran that one time. So I love that 493 00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:55.000 you pointed that out. As people walk away from this episode, maybe, 494 00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:59.519 well, I usually jog, so I'm imagining someone running and they're listening to 495 00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:02.480 this and as they're finishing up listening to US talk today. Chrissy, anything 496 00:33:02.480 --> 00:33:07.920 you want to leave us with as far as final thoughts around our attribution model, 497 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:12.440 things that we're tracking maybe it's a start stop. Any final thoughts here 498 00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.680 before we close out today? I well, I would say there's never been 499 00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:19.400 a better time to be a marketer. Ever. Ever, this is and 500 00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:22.279 it's only going to get better. I think marketing has rightfully earned our seat 501 00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:24.960 at the table. It's no longer view to be this. You know, 502 00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:30.279 a marketer is this creative genius who's kind of like out here and dresses in 503 00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:34.519 Hawaiian tshirts and, you know, write a motorcycle that you like see in 504 00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:37.279 the movies and stuff like. That's not reality. It's, you know, 505 00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:43.119 people who, yes, creativity helps, but you can train yourself to be 506 00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:46.559 a good marketer, like you can, and there's so many resources out there 507 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:52.000 right now where you can get educated on on what's going on and in the 508 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:53.519 space and like you know what some of the new things are. There's free 509 00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:59.160 courses right to become a marketer. It's it's a really wonderful time to be 510 00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:01.960 to be here, and so I'm grateful that I landed in this, this 511 00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:07.319 field. That's it's all I've ever wanted and I I can't express how much 512 00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:09.239 I love it. I was talking to the CFO the other day and I 513 00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:13.360 was like. Is it weird that I don't have a lot of hobbies like 514 00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.960 like if I'm not if I'm not working, I'm sort of like studying and 515 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:20.239 I just love it. But it's important to be a lifelong learner in marketing 516 00:34:20.280 --> 00:34:22.079 and and you will. You will be successful. You just got to keep 517 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:25.599 out it. It's good leaving us with some hope today. I appreciate that 518 00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:30.159 too. Let's jump here as we wrap up. Talk to us a little 519 00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:35.480 bit about impactcom, and then also, where can people stay connected with you 520 00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:39.159 and the work that you're doing? Sure so. Impactcom is a the leading 521 00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:47.119 partnership management platform. We help businesses grow revenue through partnerships. So partnerships mean 522 00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:52.840 influencers, other businesses, affiliates, referral marketing is what you know. Some 523 00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:58.480 people have called it in the past, but it's not just one thing. 524 00:34:58.519 --> 00:35:05.599 It's leveraging other people who have maybe an insight or a particular audience or some 525 00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:09.280 talent or software integration or something that you know you can use to benefit your 526 00:35:09.320 --> 00:35:14.920 business, giving them something in return, largely and mostly a commission, although 527 00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:19.440 sometimes product is what the incentive is. In the influencer space. I know 528 00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:22.239 a lot of brands will send product and kind of ask for them to to 529 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:27.960 review them. But authenticity plays a huge role and so so finding a good 530 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:30.519 partner that can refer you business and and that you can do something for them 531 00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:35.480 and it's a right fit. That's sort of what we're trying to drive education 532 00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:38.079 and awareness around. You can find partners in our market place, you can 533 00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:43.239 contract with them, you can recruit them into your program you start tracking, 534 00:35:43.320 --> 00:35:47.199 doing all the measurement, paying them. Everything can be done through impactcom and 535 00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:51.119 we work with some of the greatest brands in the entire world. So I 536 00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:53.840 feel like I'm very lucky to have this job and the company is a fantastic 537 00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:59.719 place, but we're definitely checking along here. Partnerships have exploded over the past 538 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:01.320 couple of years, I think, largely due to, I believe that e 539 00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:07.760 commerce exploding right so anyone who's driving sales for e commerce is also doing pretty 540 00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:10.760 well these days. HMM, Christy, how can people connect with you as 541 00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:15.840 Linkedin best or what would you say there? It is so I'm I have 542 00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:21.079 a weird Christine name. There's no age. It's Cristi Christy Garcia. You 543 00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:23.920 can find me on Linkedin and yeah, I'd love to connect with any marketers 544 00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:28.079 who want to have a conversation. Appreciate you stopping by B Tob Growth. 545 00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:30.320 This has been a really fun conversation than spend. I really appreciate it. 546 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:37.360 Thank you for all of our listeners who are tuned in today. I appreciate 547 00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:43.440 you listening. We hope that these conversations help fuel your growth, help continue 548 00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:46.119 to make you more innovative in the work that you're doing. Don't miss an 549 00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:49.920 episode. If you have yet to subscribe to the show, do that on 550 00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:53.199 whatever podcast player is your favorite. You can connect with me as well over 551 00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:57.559 on Linkedin. Just Search Benjie Block. I'm talking about business, marketing in 552 00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:00.119 life over there and would love to connect with you. Keep doing work that 553 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:05.360 matters and will be back real soon with another episode. Christie, thanks again 554 00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:20.159 for being here. Be Tob growth is brought to you by the team at 555 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.320 sweet fish media. Here at sweet fish, we produce podcast for some of 556 00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:27.400 the most innovative brands in the world and we help them turn those podcasts into 557 00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:30.719 Microvideos, linkedin content, blog posts and more. We're on a mission to 558 00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:40.039 produce every leader's favorite show. Want more information, visit Sweet Fish Mediacom