Who's Influencing Your Marketing? | Original Research

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.880 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is B two B growth. 2 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:20.359 Welcoming friends. We are a month into a new way of doing B two 3 00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:25.160 B growth and internally here, and selfishly, I'll say I've been loving it. 4 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:29.199 Looking at responses on Linkedin, we've been sharing micro clips and I've seen 5 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:33.240 a lot of conversations started because of these episodes, and so it's early, 6 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:37.039 but I think I would say a month in it's been a success, which 7 00:00:37.159 --> 00:00:41.880 is really, really exciting if you're new to this format. We sat down 8 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:46.159 with a hundred marketing leaders. We asked fifteen original research questions to get a 9 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:49.759 sense of where B Two b marketing teams are at. And what we're doing 10 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:54.079 is we're tackling one of these fifteen questions on Wednesday's episodes of B two B 11 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:59.399 growth. So the question we're gonna Dialogue about today is who is the marketing 12 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:03.280 influence or that you are most influenced by? And so for today's discussion I've 13 00:01:03.319 --> 00:01:07.799 got our regulars from the last three of these. Have James and Logan with 14 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:12.439 me here. But I'm excited because after three months away on fraternity leave, 15 00:01:12.519 --> 00:01:17.159 we have Dan Sanchez back with us. Dan, welcome back, man, 16 00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:19.760 it's exciting to have you damn man, it's good to be back. I 17 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:23.959 missed this really. People think they want to be on primitive vacations. I'm 18 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:26.879 like, not me, I gotta be talking about marketing, reading marketing books 19 00:01:26.879 --> 00:01:33.079 and doing some marketing stuff. Well, we are glad to get your insights 20 00:01:33.079 --> 00:01:36.799 on this one and glad to have your face on the screen right now. 21 00:01:37.159 --> 00:01:40.599 Okay, so I want to just toss this question to all of us and 22 00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:45.319 I want to discuss it personally before we talk about the findings from the hundred 23 00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:49.040 marketing leaders. James, if I'm posing this at you first, who's the 24 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:55.959 marketing influencer that you are most influenced by right now? Yeah, so I 25 00:01:56.000 --> 00:02:00.719 am hands down most influenced by Chris Walker. So everything that he's been talking 26 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:07.159 about around creating demand, capturing demand, dark social I'm listening to stated demand 27 00:02:07.199 --> 00:02:10.319 Gin at least once a week. I think there are three or four episodes 28 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:14.800 a week. I at least listen to one of those every week. His 29 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:19.400 linkedin content pops up on my feet every single day. A little context that 30 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:23.879 I want to give for for everybody. Benji, we did this research all 31 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:30.759 the way back in and then. So we bid off way more than we 32 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:34.479 originally could you when we said we wanted to talk to a hundred B two 33 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:37.919 B marketers for this original research, and we're like, Oh yeah, we'll 34 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:40.960 just like snap our fingers and, you know, have conversations with a hundred 35 00:02:42.039 --> 00:02:45.879 different people, like every B two B company does with original research, bits 36 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:49.319 off way more than they to and realize that's how hard it is. Yeah, 37 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:55.439 so it was just a ridiculously arduous process and we we had fits and 38 00:02:55.479 --> 00:03:00.360 spurts. So we did part of it in we then brought somebody into focus 39 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:05.599 on it, finished up in one and then we spent the early part of 40 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:08.639 this year kind of packaging it all together, figuring out what our insights were 41 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:13.680 gonna be. So this has been a long time coming and so I want 42 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:16.319 to share that context though. This one though, marketing, I mean this 43 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:20.840 stuff is changing, marketing influencers are popping up all the time. So I 44 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:23.039 just want people that like even in some of the findings, as I've been 45 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:27.199 looking through them on our prep doc I'm like, I don't know that that 46 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:31.360 would be the case today if we surveyed the same people. Yeah, anyway, 47 00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:34.680 we'll get into it later. In the episode, but just wanted to 48 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:38.840 give that context. This is from one is when we asked these hundred B 49 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:43.280 twob marketing leaders this question. Yeah, I think more people would probably say 50 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:46.719 Chris Uh. He was definitely still talked about, but even in this I'm, 51 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:51.120 you know, doing another round and his name has come up a few 52 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:53.479 times in the original research we're doing for for next quarter next year. So 53 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:58.199 I think that's great context. James Dan, how about you, man like, 54 00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:00.000 who are you paying attention to? WHO's in when Sing your marketing right 55 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:04.120 now, I tend to binge somebody for like a period of a few months 56 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:06.919 and then stop listening to them all together and move on to someone new, 57 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:12.919 and I like try to I don't know, like just smash their thoughts into 58 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.960 my brain and then I move on. Right now, and probably for like 59 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:18.319 the last ten months, this is longer than normal. Is Alex her Mosey. 60 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:21.680 I just can't get enough of it, honestly, because he addresses topics 61 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:26.720 that are deeper than marketing, often going down to the route offering, which 62 00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:30.000 is kind of marketing, but marketers usually never get to play there, going 63 00:04:30.040 --> 00:04:32.839 down to the offering and even did the market. He's actually given me tools 64 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:36.279 to think about how to assess in the in the playing fields were actually playing 65 00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:40.839 in, because sometimes it's not a promotional problem. Might be a product problem. 66 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:43.319 Shoot, it might be a market problem. Oh No, you know, 67 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:46.879 without that marketers are just pulling their hair out trying to figure out why 68 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:48.360 isn't this promotion working? Well, it's because it might be deeper. And 69 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:51.639 Alex dives into all of that stuff, and and the promotional side, of 70 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:56.759 course, but he's definitely had my attention for a while now. That's one 71 00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:00.279 I've definitely he's grown on me so much last year and I feel like he's 72 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:05.199 now everywhere. It's crazy, and his muscles and mustache definitely have to help 73 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:10.519 his brand on. Talking like tennis, I've been following I've been following his 74 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:15.360 wife on Youtube too. I mean she's got phenomenal like contenter culture building at 75 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:18.040 Alex and Layla her Mosey. I think are are some of the best in 76 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:21.800 the game right now. Nice, Logan, you got a new new name 77 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:25.560 to throw in the ring here. Yeah, I will, if I were 78 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:28.600 just answering this and like who am I following the most, you know, 79 00:05:28.680 --> 00:05:32.240 being challenged by the most, seeing things differently that would definitely be Chris Walker 80 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:36.560 for all the same reasons that James said. But to add another name to 81 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:41.079 the mix, I would say if I stepped back a little bit and I 82 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:44.800 look about the time that I joined sweet fish and really jumped into the B 83 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:48.439 two B marketing world, Mien and those first couple of years after that, 84 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:53.439 I really had my eyes on Dave Gearhart. Obviously he was at drift at 85 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:57.079 that point. He's since moved on and and doing lots of different things, 86 00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:00.319 but I think even though he might not be front of mind for everybody as 87 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:05.240 much as maybe Chris Walker someone else uh these days, to me he influenced 88 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:11.079 my thinking and kind of solidified my thinking in what I wanted to bring from 89 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:15.000 my journalism background to be two be marketing. He's talking a lot about and 90 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:19.639 and has talked about building a media company for your niche rather than just building 91 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:25.040 a marketing company, and when he was at drift that's really what he did. 92 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:28.199 People were talking about like I feel like I'm watching a documentary just seeing 93 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:31.000 what drift is doing, like I'm grabbing my coffee and watching D G and 94 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:34.879 D C riff and I remember James and I talking about those seeking wisdom episodes 95 00:06:34.920 --> 00:06:40.040 all the time in my early days of sweet fish. But he's also done 96 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:44.600 some very interesting things with community that I think we'll talk about here in if 97 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.319 you look at maybe the last two years of D G's journey. So Dave 98 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:50.959 Gearhart's definitely on the list there, and I would have said Chris Walker and 99 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:55.480 and Alex and Leila as well. So very much like minded with James and 100 00:06:55.560 --> 00:07:00.160 Dan on that point. I think a few names come to to my one 101 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:01.839 and I was thinking about it in in some different ways right, because there's 102 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:06.680 like content I interact with at at a mascale or books I've read on marketing 103 00:07:06.680 --> 00:07:11.160 that have been influential and Dan, kind of like you, if I deep 104 00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:15.279 dive into somebody, I feel like if I really listen and I really digest 105 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:18.759 their content for let's say three to six months, I feel like their voice 106 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:21.600 starts getting in my head to an extent where, even though I'm not consuming 107 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:26.279 their content anymore, I know they how they would think about certain things and 108 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:29.639 then I'm operating from that. So it's like WHO's influencing my marketing? Well, 109 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:32.279 technically like all these different people that I went and binged their content. 110 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:36.319 You know, in the past and now that that all lives in me, 111 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:41.399 just as other authors of other types of books outside of marketing. But I'll 112 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:45.519 just say a couple that have influenced me since last November when I came on 113 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:50.079 the team here at sweet fish. I think Justin Simon so good at talking 114 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:57.079 about repurposing content over and over and over again. He's a content marketing at 115 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:01.920 metadata and I just really appreciate how he picked a niche, a topic to 116 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:05.680 really go after and has just figured out ways to keep talking about it. 117 00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:11.759 And so while he's not a macro influencer, he's someone that has influenced the 118 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:13.879 way I think about how do we distribute B two B growth episodes? How 119 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:18.240 should we think about redistribution in a new way and not as like this, 120 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:20.800 create a piece of content, promote it once and let it die, and 121 00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:24.680 so that's been something I've I've thought about consistently really because of him. And 122 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:28.240 then the other one is less like they only talk about marketing, but they 123 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:31.960 talk about business and they talk about marketing enough that I'm learning a lot from 124 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:37.759 them. And it's the guys from my first million absolutely fun, fantastic podcast 125 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:43.440 and they're so like friendly and they're bouncing these ideas off each other constantly that 126 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:46.159 it's like, Oh, we could take that and we could use it in 127 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:48.799 our marketing, we could like so I I think my first million has just 128 00:08:48.919 --> 00:08:54.799 continued to grow on me and and those guys are are having an influence on 129 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:58.000 the way I think about marketing. So alright, let's let's talk about what 130 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:03.720 we actually found owned in the results here, and it's it's funny, Logan, 131 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:07.159 because you brought up Dave Gerhardt and he was the standalone winner. So 132 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:13.879 of the respondents said Dave, and then Seth Goden came up. I have 133 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:18.480 this is marketing behind me on on my shelf. Seth is definitely played a 134 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:22.440 distinct role in how I think. And then Chris Walker. So they were 135 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:24.120 at like ten and eleven percent of the vote, James, like you said 136 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:28.600 earlier, probably for for Chris, that number is higher in the B Two 137 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:31.159 b space now just with all the content that they've pushed out. And then 138 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:35.879 it's interesting to look at it in percentages. So when you think of it 139 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:37.960 in three distinct groups, you could think of it as like macro sort of 140 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:43.039 celebrities, hundred K plus followers. Then you have like micro influencers, let's 141 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:48.039 say five or four thousand to a hundred K, and then you have personal 142 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:52.600 connections. It was a bit like split. So thirty seven percent for celebrities, 143 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:56.440 like the macro. Then you have personal connections at thirty three percent, 144 00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:01.159 people that we know like trust and maybe they don't have this huge following, 145 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:07.039 but they're influencing our marketing, and then micro influencers. At with those numbers 146 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:09.919 and mind James, like, what do you think of as as a key 147 00:10:11.000 --> 00:10:13.879 finding as it's sort of like, oh, that's that's interesting when you see 148 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:18.360 that sort of Split. Yeah, so as as I look at the list 149 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:22.960 of who these folks mentioned, one of the things that stood out to me 150 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:35.559 is there's this combination of personality and expertise that equates to influence and some it's 151 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.159 not like a perfect formula. It's not like Oh, it has to be 152 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:43.720 half expertise half personality. Some people lean heavier on the expertise. I think 153 00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:50.799 Chris Walker Leans Heavier on the expertise, doesn't necessarily inject as much personality into 154 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:54.440 his content, but he's so freaking smart you just want to gobble up all 155 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:58.960 of that expertise. I would say Seth Goden errs on that side too, 156 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:03.840 where it's like his ideas are so profound, he's clearly put an enormous amount 157 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:07.840 of thought into the ideas that he shares in the content that he puts out, 158 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:16.200 not necessarily as much personality, whereas like Dave Gearhart or Christopher Lockhead, 159 00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:20.320 I think they inject more personality into their content. They've still got great ideas, 160 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:26.320 but it's a little bit more personality driven, even in their social content 161 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:28.600 and what they're putting out on Linkedin. Like it especially comes out on their 162 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:33.759 podcast when you're hearing them articulate these ideas. There's just more personality and more 163 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:39.960 charisma in the delivery of the blockheads just trying to figure out ways to step 164 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.200 on your toes, trying to annoy you, trying to get under your skin 165 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:46.759 right, he's just trying to figure out how to push you up. But 166 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:50.360 I think it's a camp like. I think a combination of two of those 167 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:54.279 things. It's like personality and extra case. And as I thought about I 168 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:58.120 have thought about this from my own like, as we're obviously all of us 169 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:00.759 on this call, like we want to influence our market, and so it's 170 00:12:00.799 --> 00:12:07.200 like where do I lean heavier and it's probably more personality, not necessarily in 171 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:11.159 like a charisma like you look, look at me, but more like I'm 172 00:12:11.240 --> 00:12:15.799 much more collaborative. I want to have conversations like this. I don't just 173 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.320 want to, you know, get behind a mic and and like pontificate on 174 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:22.559 a thought, quite frankly, because I just I think there are people on 175 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:24.039 this team that are always smarter than me and a lot of this stuff, 176 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:28.919 and so I'd rather have it be more collaborative. My presence on Linkedin be 177 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:33.320 more like tagging other people and like hey, like, this person had a 178 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:35.519 really good thought, you know, on this idea too. So anyway, 179 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:39.320 that was the key finding for me from this. Looking at the list of 180 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:43.279 names going man, all of these folks seem to have either an element of 181 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:48.919 like big personality or it's deep, deep expertise and like where, where's the 182 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:52.000 balancing act there? So that that was my finding. I think you make 183 00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:56.080 a really good point, James, about the balance there and also some nuance 184 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:00.000 to the quote unquote personality part of it. Like we think if, hey, 185 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.480 someone's building a personal brand and their personality is a big part of it, 186 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:07.039 it has to be this certain type of personality right, it has to 187 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:11.519 be super gregarious or controversial. Like there's a list of like three personality traits 188 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:16.200 that work with building a personal brand and I would say that, you know, 189 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.440 you mentioned Chris Walker leaning more into his expertise, but if you think 190 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:24.320 about it, his story is coming from engineer and that sort of mindset to 191 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:28.559 marketing and he brings that personality to it. If you listen to demand Gen 192 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:31.200 live and he gets a question, he's not afraid to just be like, 193 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:35.399 okay, hold on, let me think about that, right, and you 194 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:39.120 can almost see like the engineering mind working out that problem. And so he 195 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:43.559 does bring a specific personality to it, even though it's not kind of your 196 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:48.480 typical big personality. So I think you've got to think about that as well. 197 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:50.200 I think that's a good point, Logan, because if you think of 198 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:56.360 Dave Gerhard, he to me, brings more personality. He still has an 199 00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:00.759 element of deep expertise. Like I I've taken his mark it in course and 200 00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:03.399 I've loved it, but it's all community based, like all the sessions are 201 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:09.759 him riffing on ideas with a group of marketers. Very different than I would 202 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:13.240 expect. If if Chris Walker even though he does the lives. He's like 203 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:18.000 here's a question, and Chris is like a surgeon going in and like thinking 204 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:20.679 in a different way than where Dave is like, well, what if, 205 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.120 like, I ask a question and then you ponder it and you think about 206 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.639 it for yourself? And what would you what conclusion would you come to? 207 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:30.840 And it's it's just a different way of thinking about it. I also think, 208 00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:35.120 James, I love that equation Brand personality plus plus expertise equals influence, 209 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.039 because you could think about it in a team context where it's like we have 210 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:41.159 people that can lean into personality and we have people on our team that can 211 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:45.960 lean into expertise, and if you have a good mix of both, you 212 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:48.879 can not just think about it personally, but you can think about it for 213 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:54.399 how do we in the way that we all function like own do I lean 214 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:56.919 into brand personality right now? Do I lean into deep expertise here? And 215 00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:01.919 then you get a good mix and multiple people are influencing the market in a 216 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:05.320 way, so it's personal and it's like aspirational for your team. Dan, 217 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:09.080 what's the key finding for you here? Man, I remember looking through all 218 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:13.799 the data and I was going through name by name like taling up these names 219 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:16.320 to see who had the most votes, but what was surprising to me was 220 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:20.200 all the people who had like one, two, three. People remember, 221 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:24.080 like these are the answers that someone's given to WHO's the most influential to you, 222 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:28.399 the most influential on our people that are less recognized? I'm like, 223 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:31.279 there's a lot of people that have influence, but only of a few. 224 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:35.120 But as a marketer who wants to get into influencer marketing, I'm like, 225 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:41.000 Dang, like everybody should be doing this process of gathering data from their customers 226 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:43.679 or their prospects and asking him who's the most influential to not only so you 227 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.200 can find the obvious people at the top, because we could have guessed Chris 228 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:48.919 Walker, could have guessed Dave Gearhard, we would have. We knew those 229 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:54.000 people were in the mix right and didn't know Steth Goden was as relevant as 230 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.480 he is today as he was like ten years ago. But he's still high 231 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:58.240 in the mix, so that's good to know. But he's not. He's 232 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:00.639 not super easy to get. It's the people underneath and I'm like, Dang, 233 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:04.559 you need to start asking this question early and often to kind of get 234 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.279 a pulse on who is it? Because reaching out to these people who have 235 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:14.960 like maybe a small ten followers, but good followers there. For some people, 236 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:18.759 maybe a thousand or two thousand people, they're the most influential person to 237 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:23.120 M m. So there's something to be said for getting working this original research 238 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:27.120 practice into your content marketing stream, whether you do it through a podcast or 239 00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:30.519 asking people on Linkedin, like, you need to be figuring out who these 240 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:36.120 people are. Yeah, well said, and you pointed out something else when 241 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:38.320 you were looking at the findings that I think would be insightful to talk about 242 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:42.360 here, which is the fact that, and I am totally one of these 243 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:47.840 marketers, but I don't like being the one to say this is an influencer 244 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:48.840 in my life. And I don't know what it is about the language, 245 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.440 but even like the thought leader stuff, when that comes up, it's like 246 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:56.679 just the language is hard for us to get behind. Talk about what you 247 00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:00.399 were thinking there, because that that was a really good point, ma'am. 248 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.519 Yeah, that was something I heard over and over again and it was even 249 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:08.079 typed up in the responses that we took from verbal verbal responses. Is that 250 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:12.440 I don't even some people are like influencers or just BS. I don't even 251 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:18.759 like it. Some people are like I like more practitioners than influencers and generally 252 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:21.240 when they said that or a number of other things that were kind of along 253 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:23.680 those same lines, they all just felt cringeing about the word influencer, because 254 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:27.240 we hear influencer, we think B TWOC influencer, which is the person that 255 00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:30.680 has no substance, that is just for some reason, really influential. You 256 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.720 think of like the Kardashians, oh my gosh, the biggest influencers on the 257 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:37.839 planet. But nobody like I knew you were going to say the Kardashians. 258 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:41.079 I was smiling before you even said it. Everybody likes to pick on them 259 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:45.359 because no substance, no substance, right. So we're carrying that mindset of 260 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:48.039 influencers over to the B two B space. But in order to really work 261 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:52.880 and be influential and B two B, generally, I'd say, or more 262 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:56.799 of the influencers I see and B Two B are coming from practitioners, practitionership. 263 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:00.119 There's a few evangelists out there that, you know, used to be 264 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.160 practitioners but they haven't done crap in like decades, right. So there's a 265 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:07.400 few of those, but most of them aren't the same. So while I 266 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.440 know there's like influencers, seeing as like a, as a just has. 267 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:15.119 It leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. When I think when we say 268 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:18.039 it and B, two B, it's still it's still works and we can 269 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:19.000 change the name of it, just kind of like we need to change the 270 00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:23.799 name of thought leadership because it's tarnish too. But generally it's still they're still 271 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:29.839 influential because of their expertise, because of their what they're actually doing in their 272 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.880 day jobs. So it's just you have to be careful when approaching these people, 273 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:37.640 maybe not to call them influencers or lead, lead, like, Oh, 274 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.880 I want to introduce you to so said influencer because they're joining us on 275 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:44.519 this thing. Don't use that language. But when you're in the back room 276 00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:48.640 talking about which influencers to go and find for your campaign, then use it, 277 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:52.039 but out externally I would avoid it at all costs, especially if you're 278 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:55.119 talking to marketers, who I think have an extra bs detector on that stuff. 279 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.160 Yeah, if your audience as marketers, I don't know that. Like 280 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:02.240 for those listening to this episod that don't serve marketers like we do. You 281 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:04.759 know, just the context there, like that word might not be tarnished in 282 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:10.359 other spaces, like HR folks might be a okay with with that kind of 283 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:14.160 language, but but if you're serving marketers, for sure it seems to be 284 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:17.240 a dirty word. That's a really good point, James. One of the 285 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:21.720 things we ask when we're launching new podcasts and we're thinking about the brand identity 286 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:25.839 of a show, we ask our clients here at sweet fish what are words 287 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:30.000 that your audience, your target market, would use to describe themselves and what 288 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:34.400 are words that they wouldn't use to describe themselves? Like innovators is another one 289 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:37.839 of those that people could roll their eyes out or they could be like, 290 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:41.799 I'm an innovator right. It can have different connotation depending on who you're talking 291 00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:45.839 to. I think the other thing, this has come up a little bit, 292 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:51.799 that that I thought about when looking at this research was that community building 293 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:59.279 is a strong tool set in those that are really creating influence in their niche. 294 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:02.640 You think about Chris Walker and what they did with demand Gen live. 295 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:04.880 That went, you know, to a hundred episodes and they're kind of reinventing 296 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:08.640 it now, but it was content, right, and it fueled his linked 297 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:12.519 in which was already, you know, growing and getting traction there. But 298 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:15.880 people were coming there so that they had asked live questions and it was a 299 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:21.279 little bit different format. David Gerhardt started doing that with D G MG in 300 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:23.640 those groups that have, you know, turned into now there's a job board 301 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:29.039 component and there's there's different aspects to that on on facebook and the other ways 302 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:33.799 that he's managing that community. And, as Dan was saying earlier, doing 303 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:37.200 community can look a little bit different, right. It can be kind of 304 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.720 a m a style, like Chris has done with demands in live. It 305 00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:44.400 can be more collaborative, it can be, you know, we've done some 306 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:48.920 testing with community with building my club, and it's a little bit of both. 307 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.799 It's a little bit of answering questions but also creating a space where people 308 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:56.759 who have B two B podcasts can ask questions of each other, right, 309 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.559 and so I think community building can have different components and you can prioritize different 310 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:03.880 aspects of it. But when we look at a few people on these lists, 311 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.960 community was definitely part of their strategy and something you should think about too. 312 00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:14.000 Yeah, community, how you actually engage with people. If you're an 313 00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:15.559 influencer of any size, or even if you're just like, okay, I'm 314 00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:19.599 going to be more active on Linkedin, if that's your goal, the type 315 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:22.880 of community you create, how you actually connect with people, is clearly a 316 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:26.799 big thing. You need to be thinking about engaging in the comments, not 317 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:30.279 just creating this content, not just trying to be a thought leader, but 318 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:33.119 like even creating better content. When you think of these people that we've mentioned, 319 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:37.960 it's because they have good interaction with their their listeners, their ideal client, 320 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:41.400 that then it informs their content in a very real way, and that 321 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:48.720 community pieces is vital. I think of just creating content that resonates like you 322 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.920 would about your favorite restaurant, and that was the thing I just kept thinking 323 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:56.400 about over and over again. Is like if thirty three percent said that they're 324 00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:00.880 most influenced by personal connection. Like, Oh man, I you know, 325 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:03.519 if I have something in my marketing that I've questioned about or whatever, I 326 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:07.599 go to this small group of CMOS. I go to, you know, 327 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:11.680 these people that I trust, that I used to work with. It's the 328 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:15.720 same as word of mouth in like, I really like this pizza, so 329 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:21.279 I'm going to recommend it to a friend and you'll hear these influencers talk about 330 00:22:21.319 --> 00:22:25.880 how, at some level what happens is they say something that really resonates and 331 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:29.440 then a CEO sees it on Linkedin and shares it in their slack community and 332 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:32.880 like everybody needs to go watch this. We do this all the time at 333 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:37.079 sweet fish. We see something that should inform our marketing and we go and 334 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:40.440 share it. So when you think of creating content, you're thinking, I 335 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:44.240 want to create content that resonates, because if it resonates, it's shareable, 336 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:47.880 and if it's share able, then it means that not only am I now 337 00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:52.200 hitting the micro right, like the thirty percent that have that four hundred thousand. 338 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:56.160 If you're in that range right, you're already a micro influencer, but 339 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.200 also it's being shared and so the peer space is sharing it, and that's 340 00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:03.680 the other so now you're hitting like this bigger part of our results. I 341 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.519 don't know, I just kept thinking, like word of mouth and content matters 342 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.920 so much, and that's why these guys that we've talked about really resonate, 343 00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:15.839 is because now these people that we know, like and trust are also sharing 344 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.359 their content. So it's a flywheel of sorts for audience growth. To use 345 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:23.279 the language we always use, your as sweet fish. I think that's why 346 00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:27.680 honing in on your message and being able to pound it over and over and 347 00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:30.680 over and over and over and over and over again, getting clear, like, 348 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:37.200 for us, affinity over awareness, by by commodity content like those things 349 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:40.680 like, the more clear we can be on the messages that we're putting into 350 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:45.440 the market, and the more we repeat those things over and over and over 351 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:48.880 again, the more we become associated with those things. So when, when 352 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.680 that talk does happen, we we know that we're being associated with the things 353 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.160 that we're just saying over and over and over again. It's easier. You're 354 00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:03.200 enabling word of mouth by associating your self with key messages that you intentionally and 355 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:07.480 thoughtfully talk about in different ways, but it's the same key message over and 356 00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:11.440 over and over again. Like people know that Chris Walker is associated with, 357 00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:17.839 you know, doing attribution, differently, dark social, creating demand and capturing 358 00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:22.839 demand, and he's done a masterful job of of packaging his ideas. I 359 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:26.519 know that's something that I've heard Dan talk about. This idea of packaging your 360 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:30.359 ideas. U is not something that we talk about enough, but it's a 361 00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:36.279 really good point. I had a former client of ours reach out on linked 362 00:24:36.279 --> 00:24:40.160 in and she dmed me and said, hey, we're looking at this platform 363 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:44.440 as a podcast host what do you know about them? And it's a platform 364 00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:48.119 that we don't currently use as our main hosting platform, but we've engaged with 365 00:24:48.200 --> 00:24:49.400 I know some people at the company, I know a little bit of history. 366 00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:52.400 I was able to give her some insights and like hey, here's what 367 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:56.839 I think is maybe good bad, here's some questions to ask, here's limitations 368 00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:00.279 of what I know, and after I sent that back she was like thanks 369 00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:03.640 for the dark social insights. Right, and I know that she said that 370 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:08.720 because she's been following Chris Walker, because she used the same language. Now, 371 00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:12.200 that doesn't just happen overnight. Like you said, you've got to deliver 372 00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:15.960 the same message in a lot of different ways, in a lot of different 373 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:21.400 scenarios, and you've got to package them in a way that people can can 374 00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:23.279 repeat them. I think sometimes we don't think about that. We're just like 375 00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:27.640 I'm bringing good ideas, right, but are they packaged in a way that 376 00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:32.720 it is very easy for someone to start using it in conversation? So that 377 00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:37.519 was a very clear example to me of Chris's influence coming through in an interaction 378 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:42.079 where I recognized where that term came from and why she was using it. 379 00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:47.359 Yeah, lockheads are great example of this as well. Like you just clearly 380 00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:52.000 know, he's gonna keep pounding this idea of category creation and he's just gonna 381 00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:53.680 do it over and over again. He's gonna think of really creative ways to 382 00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:59.880 do it and people use the language that he creates because he's masterful with folks 383 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:04.359 writing and with speaking and communicating. That and the whole idea of being pirates. 384 00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:07.880 I just category pirates like that whole thing is just so brilliant it's I 385 00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:11.480 obsess over it. Okay, I want to go get to remedies here and 386 00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.519 I want to just talk about like, okay, it's one thing to be 387 00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:17.359 like, Oh, who's your favorite influencer? Right now, that question at 388 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:18.920 its surface. Maybe like all right, we're just gonna toss out some names. 389 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.559 Maybe it's some New People for you to follow, or you'll just hear 390 00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.680 us like gushing about these people, but there's actually prescriptive things I would say 391 00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.000 because of the results that we're going hey, pay attention to this or try 392 00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:33.599 this, do this, Dan, as you think of remedies and recommendations. 393 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:37.359 What's something you think of? I think if you're able to get the right 394 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:41.319 data about who the influencers are of your prospects, like we just talked about 395 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.480 before, it makes it right for B two B to finally enter into influence 396 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:49.240 our marketing. You know, however, you take that term right, and 397 00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:52.519 before it was kind of hard, like Oh, who do we find? 398 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:55.119 What do we do with them? But now you have a list and, 399 00:26:55.400 --> 00:26:56.200 more importantly, and not a list, of the big names, with a 400 00:26:56.200 --> 00:27:00.000 little names, and you can reach out to them and build relationships with them 401 00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.200 one on one, either through social or having them on your podcast. But 402 00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:07.160 I think now, now is the time, because you can essentially test your 403 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:10.240 way into it without losing your shirt on one big deal. You can do 404 00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:11.799 a bunch of small ones and see how it goes and kind of scale it 405 00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.079 out. There's actually a way to do that now that you can just go 406 00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:18.279 and just ask him who's influencing you. I know it seems like we should 407 00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:22.519 have just asked them before who the heck they're influencer is, but sometimes you 408 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:26.440 you look back, Um, like at your past self you're like, Oh, 409 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:29.519 past self, why didn't you know this? Maybe maybe other people knew 410 00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:32.319 this, but I'm just figuring it out looking at this research now, like 411 00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:36.079 Dang, I wish I'd been doing this my whole freaking career, just asking 412 00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:38.319 the prospects who's the most influential and then going and reaching out to those people, 413 00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:42.799 building relationships and collaborating with them, or asked, building relationship and asking 414 00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:47.160 an approach your event or your Webinar or whatever you have coming up, your 415 00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:49.599 book launch. If you've built relationship with them and added value to them, 416 00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:53.359 then they'll probably do so in return and build a good relationship with all the 417 00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:59.039 people who influence your prospect and other people have written about this. Holmes is 418 00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:02.759 probably the most famous. The dream one, the same concept, but using 419 00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:06.720 original research to find who that one is instead of guessing. That's the key. 420 00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:10.799 Mm Hmm, great point there. Yeah, Logan, what about you? 421 00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:15.680 Man? I love what Dan said about adding value. Right, let's 422 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:18.960 say you've identified the WHO right, it can be very easy to say, 423 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.640 okay, now we're gonna go ask all these people to collaborate on content or 424 00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.839 to create some sort of partnership. But think about before you make that ask 425 00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:29.680 how are we going to make it worth their while, because they're getting a 426 00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:32.880 lot of pitches right, and so how can you make the most of that? 427 00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:36.319 So I just wanted to reiterate that point. The other thing I would 428 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:41.160 think about is look at their content and what's really resonating. Just because you 429 00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:45.359 you see, whether you do research on Spark Toro or you ask your clients 430 00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:51.359 or you ask your market on Linkedin or other social platform, it doesn't mean 431 00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:55.039 that just like Oh, you get this influencer to do some content collaboration with 432 00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:59.160 you and just ask them to show up and just drop fire right, because 433 00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:02.400 if you look at some of the people we've been talking about, James and 434 00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:04.519 I were talking about this the other day. D G posts a lot recently, 435 00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:08.039 like three or four times a day. Some posts will blow up and 436 00:29:08.119 --> 00:29:12.640 others it's crickets. Right. I mean these influencers, like the term or 437 00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:18.279 not, these folks that are influencing people. They have content that really resonates 438 00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:21.680 and some that misses a little. So make sure you're prepared to get the 439 00:29:21.759 --> 00:29:26.720 most out of that collaboration once you identify who it is, once you do 440 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:30.519 the research and add the value to get them to collaborate with you, make 441 00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.000 sure it doesn't fall flat and just ask them to show up and drop fire. 442 00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:36.759 The other thing you can do, let's say you're gonna do a Webinar, 443 00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:40.279 you're gonna do a podcast with some influencer in your space. People have 444 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:44.680 probably heard from them elsewhere. That's why they're an influencer, right. So 445 00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:48.559 how can you make your content with them different? One thing you can do 446 00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:52.759 is go to listen notes DOT COM, search their name, listen to five, 447 00:29:52.960 --> 00:29:56.519 ten or more podcast episodes that they've done in other places and think about 448 00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:00.279 what did they not answer right? How can I go deeper on something where, 449 00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:03.880 Oh, if I was listening to that episode, I wouldn't ask this 450 00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:07.960 question, and then use that in the content that you create with them to 451 00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:11.519 make it different, as opposed to, Oh, I'm seeing Gary V on 452 00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:15.359 another podcast, where I'm I'm hearing from you know this person again, I 453 00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:18.559 know what they're gonna say. Trying to go a little bit deeper, and 454 00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:22.400 that's a tactical way that you can do that with someone who is already creating 455 00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:26.799 a lot of content. How do you infuse your P O v Logan when 456 00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:30.480 you're thinking of the episodes of B Two b growth that you used to host, 457 00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.519 because I think this is a constant battle. I said, like for 458 00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:36.640 myself, we're like, okay, sweet, you got so and so on 459 00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:40.279 your podcast. You got so and so, you know, collaborating on content 460 00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:42.720 with you. They have a big platform. You might get more listens on 461 00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:45.079 that episode. Maybe. I don't even know if that proves out all the 462 00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:48.160 time, because if they're everyone doesn't always. It depends on a number of 463 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:51.960 things, right, it depends. So then it's like, okay, it's 464 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:56.880 very vital that if I have a business piece of content I need to infuse, 465 00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:00.960 and we've been beating this like and non stop the last month, like 466 00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:04.119 we have to infuse our P O v, but they also have theirs and 467 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:10.000 so like. How do you do that tactfully? Any any strategy thoughts there? 468 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:14.200 Yeah, I'm actually thinking of a time when I interviewed Chris Walker, 469 00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:18.119 probably to maybe three years ago, on B two B growth, and I 470 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:22.400 don't think I was, you know, as prepared for it as what you 471 00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:23.839 know, I was just describing now. I wish I would have, you 472 00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:26.920 know, like Dan said past self, you should have done this, you 473 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.480 should have done that. But when he was saying things that aligned with the 474 00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:34.640 things that we talk about at sweet fish. I found myself saying, Oh, 475 00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:38.200 I agree with that, we think about it in this term or we 476 00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:42.319 use this term to talk about that. So that's where the packaging ideas, 477 00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:47.799 if you're ready with like Oh, we think of that as affinity over awareness, 478 00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:51.240 right. And you know, let's say I'm interviewing Chris and he says 479 00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:55.160 something to that effect but doesn't use that language. I can kind of capitalize 480 00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:57.519 on the fact that, hey, this influential person is saying this thing. 481 00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:02.200 It maps to the way that we package this idea and now I'm I'm tying 482 00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:09.480 their reach and their influence to our vehicle for making that piece memorable. There's 483 00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:13.119 two other ways I can think of, because I've done that. One that's 484 00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:15.079 like essentially sharing, like Oh, you said this, we agree, but 485 00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:19.119 we twisted a little bit differently. It's like this. But there's two other 486 00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:21.920 ways that I found you can do it and that you can actually debate them 487 00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:23.839 and be like Oh, that's funny. I actually think the opposite. Here's 488 00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:28.720 why we we call it and then you lay out your your message and then 489 00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:31.000 you have a fun little casual like debate and go back and forth and test 490 00:32:31.039 --> 00:32:35.519 each other. That honestly makes you some really good content because it creates tension. 491 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:37.359 Usually I almost find you end up somewhere in the middle if you're both 492 00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:40.759 pretty good experts, like the truth is the truth, and you usually ends 493 00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:46.000 up being sebmantical. Or you can ask for feedback. That's the other one 494 00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:49.480 that I like to say, if they're like really good an author on the 495 00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:52.839 subject, like Hey, what do you think about x? Maybe it's an 496 00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:54.519 idea you've been working on, you've been preparing, you've tested it, it's 497 00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:58.960 been going well and there there's someone you admire or someone you know has I 498 00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:01.519 would have some good thoughts on it. Asking for feedback live on a podcast 499 00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:05.799 interview is another way to get your message out there and funny it's fun to 500 00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:08.160 have them pick it apart or affirm it or I don't know. It's the 501 00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:12.480 way you get better too. It's vulnerable, but honestly it's the best way 502 00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:15.480 to go. Yeah, I love that one. It's just hey, I've 503 00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:16.880 been thinking about it this way. What do you think on that? Like, 504 00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:21.240 here's my theory. Give me some feedback on on the way that I'm 505 00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:23.920 thinking about this. It's such a good prompt because it's not like this formal 506 00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:29.519 question like you typically would do. It's a little open ended and you've provided 507 00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:32.440 some context for from where you're coming from. So that's that's good. Uh. 508 00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:38.079 And actually to the debate side of things. We just re UH featured 509 00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:43.400 the conversation, Dan, that you did with Sam Moss where you debated brand 510 00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:45.200 and branding. So it's just really good timing. If you're look at the 511 00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:47.960 B two B growth feed, you'll see that. But that's that whole deal 512 00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:52.079 right. Create some tension there. Had A little bit of different views on 513 00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:55.680 Linkedin and uh, that produced some really fun content. James, what are 514 00:33:55.720 --> 00:34:00.000 you thinking about as as it pertains to ways that we should perceive because of 515 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:05.000 the findings to this question? Yeah, so, I mean, obviously influencers 516 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:09.559 are playing a huge role in how markets are making decisions, whether it's for 517 00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:15.519 a software product or a service, and so I think the marketers listening to 518 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:20.280 this really need to start considering how they can turn their CEO, or at 519 00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:23.480 least a subject matter expert on their team. But oftentimes the CEO is a 520 00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:29.880 great fit for this. But turning an individual on your team into an influencer 521 00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:34.480 as cringe e as that word is to to whoever is listening this, and 522 00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:37.840 I think we've developed a pretty strong formula for how to do that, even 523 00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:39.880 with what we're doing here on B two, B growth. So you have 524 00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:45.519 to start with POV development. You have got to get clear on what your 525 00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:50.400 CEO or the subject matter expert what are their points of view? What's a 526 00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:53.920 commonly held belief about our industry that you passionately disagree with? What is something 527 00:34:53.960 --> 00:35:00.000 that people in our industry should stop doing today because it is damaging to them 528 00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:04.400 and they don't even realize that? What should they start doing today that they're 529 00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:07.119 not doing but they desperately need to be doing? Like those three P O 530 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:13.639 v Discovery Questions are a magic bullet for figuring out what your point of view 531 00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:16.400 can be. Once you figure out that point of view, come up with 532 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:22.079 ten to fifteen questions that you can do original research with in your market, 533 00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:25.639 so you don't have to go ask a hundred people like we did for this 534 00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:30.400 research. You can go and ask, you know, fifteen to twenty people. 535 00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:34.920 That could be existing customers, it could be potential customers, that could 536 00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:37.840 be people that you have on your podcast that you do a pre pre interview 537 00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:42.320 with where you ask them these questions. Some of them are going to be 538 00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:45.480 related to your CEO's point of views, our points of view, others are 539 00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:50.320 just things that you want to know about them, and then you, as 540 00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:57.039 the marketer, like extract insights from the responses that you got to these questions 541 00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:01.599 and then go riff with your CEO or your subject matter expert on these topics 542 00:36:01.639 --> 00:36:07.119 and in a very similar way to what we're doing here, the social content 543 00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:12.320 that is coming out of these episodes are getting far more reach than the episodes 544 00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:16.719 to themselves, and I think that's a really powerful concept that if you're getting 545 00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:22.159 your setting, your CEO, your subject matter expert up for not just creating 546 00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:25.599 great long form content that we know builds affinity, but you're also going to 547 00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:30.880 help them create lots of micro content. And when I think about the people 548 00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:34.719 that are influencing me the most, my list comes from like I listened to 549 00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:37.159 Alex and her layla her Mosey, because I see them pull up on Linkedin 550 00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:43.880 all the time. You see these folks micro content way more frequently and I 551 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:47.679 see Chris's videos on linkedin show up way more often than I consume his long 552 00:36:47.719 --> 00:36:52.239 form content. Now, his long form content is fantastic and I consume, 553 00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:55.199 you know, about once a week, but I see Chris Walker on Linkedin 554 00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:00.480 every single day and I think we've got to if we want to turn CEO, 555 00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:04.639 or at least the subject matter expert internally, into an influencer, we've 556 00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.760 got to think about how we can make this person visible to the people that 557 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:14.079 we want them to be visible. Too often, very often. Yeah, 558 00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:16.679 that's a good way of of putting it and summing that up. When I'm 559 00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:24.679 thinking of everything we've talked about, this idea of variety organized winds keeps popping 560 00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:30.119 up in my head, and what I mean by that is there's influencers who 561 00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:34.239 are doing a certain thing really well, like in Chris Walker's thing, it's 562 00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.400 like I'm gonna do this live and then we're gonna make it all this micro 563 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:39.159 content and it's also going to be the podcast. And now he's evolved that 564 00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:43.760 and he's doing like tiktok stuff. When you look at podcasts, that when 565 00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:46.199 they don't keep it the same at all times, there's like some variety in 566 00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:51.559 there, but then it's organized, it's packaged, as we have mentioned here, 567 00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:54.559 in a way that makes sense, and so even for B two B 568 00:37:54.639 --> 00:37:59.320 growth right now, I think one of the things that's unique is we're trying 569 00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:02.880 in working on multiple things at once. So think about the fact that there's 570 00:38:04.039 --> 00:38:07.400 in this feed right now, there's episodes that we're doing with thought leaders, 571 00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:13.280 with influencers in marketing, and those conversations are wonderful. Maybe a little bit 572 00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:15.480 less of our shared Po v because we're spotlighting those people, but that's a 573 00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:19.400 lot of the way that sweet fish was built. Right. Content based networking 574 00:38:19.639 --> 00:38:23.920 still works because you're connecting with ideal clients, with ideal customers, and you're 575 00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:29.679 having informing relationship there. You're asking quality questions, you're creating content together, 576 00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:34.199 which deepens the relationship. There's so much value in content based networking. At 577 00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:37.840 the same time, James, what you're talking about now, with original research, 578 00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:43.000 with having someone on your team become an expert and always be in the 579 00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:46.119 feed, always be shared, like you're you're sharing your Po v and unique 580 00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:51.760 way we do that with these episodes that you're listening to, and it's these 581 00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:55.159 unique plays that are then organized in a way that makes sense. Behind the 582 00:38:55.159 --> 00:39:01.039 scenes. You can facilitate variety and that win. Like there's a lot of 583 00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:05.880 ways to win, but a big part of this whole thing right is like 584 00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:10.199 consistent content pushed out regularly using your p O v, whether it's with other 585 00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:14.440 people that have already built a platform or whether it's your team that's trying to 586 00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:19.360 build platform or has some level of of authority. I think that variety organized 587 00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:22.800 really really wins. Then that means we're gonna wrap it up and this has 588 00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:27.119 been a really fun conversation. If you've been liking this and you have yet 589 00:39:27.159 --> 00:39:30.960 to follow the podcast, do that on whatever your favorite podcast platform is so 590 00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:36.639 you never missed an episode. Connect with Logan, James Dan Myself over on 591 00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:40.320 Linkedin. We would love to chat with you about all things influencers. If 592 00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:44.119 there's someone that's really impacted you that we didn't talk about, we would love 593 00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:45.920 to know who they are so we can follow them and if they're influencing your 594 00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:50.239 marketing, we'd love to love to hear about how how they're doing that. 595 00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:54.039 All right, we'll be back real soon with another episode and keep doing work 596 00:39:54.360 --> 00:40:10.440 that matters. We're always excited to have conversations with leaders on the front lines 597 00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:15.400 of marketing. If there's a marketing director or a chief marketing officer that you 598 00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:19.239 think we need to have on the show. Reach out email me, Benji 599 00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:22.239 dot block at Sweet Fish Media Dot Com. I look forward to hearing from you