April 23, 2021

Why Email Marketing Is Still Important in a Demand Gen Strategy

As we're winding down our demand generation deep dive, Lesley Crews talks with Dan Sanchez on why email marketing is still relevant in a demand gen strategy. It's not all organic!

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:03.450 Yeah. Mhm 2 00:00:04.840 --> 00:00:07.790 What's up everybody? Welcome back to GDP Growth. I'm Leslie Cruise with 3 00:00:07.790 --> 00:00:11.440 Swedish media. We're continuing our journey into demand generation and 4 00:00:11.440 --> 00:00:15.670 today I am joined by our very own dan Sanchez dan, you're usually in the 5 00:00:15.670 --> 00:00:19.690 hosting chair here, but you're in the hot seat today. So welcome between 6 00:00:19.690 --> 00:00:22.960 Sweet Fish Media members. It's kind of fun to just jump back and forth and you 7 00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:25.600 jump onto a podcast. Sometimes we're like, wait, who's hosting? Are you 8 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:29.570 hosting? Or am I hosting? Usually I'm on here with James and we're just kind 9 00:00:29.570 --> 00:00:32.409 of like usually right before we jump on and be like, oh do you want to kick it 10 00:00:32.409 --> 00:00:36.560 off? It's kind of like which everyone goes. So it's fun to kind of jump in 11 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:40.530 with you on your deep dive, which before you start asking me questions, I 12 00:00:40.530 --> 00:00:44.530 have to ask you the question like how has it been going with your deep dive 13 00:00:44.530 --> 00:00:47.700 and like where do you feel like you're at in this journey? What do you feel 14 00:00:47.700 --> 00:00:50.790 like you've learned and what do you feel like? Just real briefly, what do 15 00:00:50.790 --> 00:00:53.300 you feel like you've learned? What do you feel like you have yet to like 16 00:00:53.300 --> 00:00:57.420 understand about the topic of demand jin Oh man, this is good stuff. Yeah, 17 00:00:57.430 --> 00:01:01.280 so I actually literally just talked to someone a few minutes ago and I was I 18 00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:03.950 was telling them, they asked me pretty much the same question, they were 19 00:01:03.950 --> 00:01:08.390 telling me like, oh like what have you learned and what are you still trying 20 00:01:08.390 --> 00:01:11.550 to focus on and all these things? And I've learned so much. I've talked to so 21 00:01:11.550 --> 00:01:14.380 many different people, you know, I talked to chris walker, I talked to um 22 00:01:14.470 --> 00:01:17.850 the letter gore recently which was so valuable to me in so many different 23 00:01:17.850 --> 00:01:22.530 ways and you know, we're still on this journey here, but I'm finally starting 24 00:01:22.530 --> 00:01:26.850 to kind of understand what demand generation is, where it lies, kind of 25 00:01:26.850 --> 00:01:30.590 under brand marketing. I think that everyone has a different definition for 26 00:01:30.590 --> 00:01:35.550 it. Um Everybody has a different place where they put it, but kind of what I'm 27 00:01:35.550 --> 00:01:39.630 interested in learning moving forward is more about products led growth. Um 28 00:01:39.630 --> 00:01:42.850 and this is something that I'm gonna be talking about this coming week um with 29 00:01:42.850 --> 00:01:47.920 someone um about you know, how demand generation works in these products led 30 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:53.200 growth companies. And is this this kind of a self service model? Right. Product 31 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:57.710 led growth. So does that kind of defeat the purpose of demand generation? Does 32 00:01:57.710 --> 00:02:02.550 it still exist in these roles? Does it completely like just reduce this role? 33 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:07.160 So I'm really excited to dive into that a little more and yeah, I'm excited. So 34 00:02:07.540 --> 00:02:12.090 it's fantastic. I mean, I think all good marketing starts with a fantastic 35 00:02:12.100 --> 00:02:14.560 product, right? And of course there's a whole school of thought around 36 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:18.500 marketing when it just comes to The product and how to market said product. 37 00:02:18.500 --> 00:02:22.740 Right? Yeah, 100%. Well, you know, we're talking about demand jin today 38 00:02:22.740 --> 00:02:25.740 and I'm excited to talk to you because you and I have both been really 39 00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:29.690 studying this for the past couple of weeks. And one thing you and I have 40 00:02:29.690 --> 00:02:34.020 talked about in this industry of demand generation, something that's been a 41 00:02:34.020 --> 00:02:40.130 trend lately has been to kind of nurture and channels aside from email 42 00:02:40.140 --> 00:02:43.890 and, you know, channels like linkedin, social media, facebook, twitter, 43 00:02:43.890 --> 00:02:48.200 whatever it is, those are really difficult to measure. And some people 44 00:02:48.200 --> 00:02:52.090 are even saying that email marketing is pretty much useless at this point, um 45 00:02:52.090 --> 00:02:54.950 and I know you have a strong opinion on this, so is this something you agree 46 00:02:54.950 --> 00:02:58.180 with or disagree with? Usually want to hear people talking about demand 47 00:02:58.180 --> 00:03:00.870 generation, they're usually talking about like all this stuff you're doing 48 00:03:00.870 --> 00:03:04.780 on the very forefront or what they call the top of the funnel, right? All the 49 00:03:04.780 --> 00:03:08.590 people who aren't yet aware of you, you're trying to make them aware of you. 50 00:03:08.590 --> 00:03:12.090 I mean Rudy said last week that it's, it's kind of a point of getting people 51 00:03:12.090 --> 00:03:15.430 to even know you exist out there, even if you're not there, not sure what you 52 00:03:15.430 --> 00:03:21.580 do, like trying to help them understand where you are or that your brand name 53 00:03:21.580 --> 00:03:25.800 even exists. So I'm like, that's not a bad way to look at it. And then 54 00:03:25.810 --> 00:03:29.420 furthermore, trying to get them to actually want what you offer or 55 00:03:29.420 --> 00:03:33.570 understand what you have and then want what you offer that's generating demand. 56 00:03:33.570 --> 00:03:37.110 I've heard marketers call that engineering desire or whatever, like 57 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:40.590 phrase that could try to like put a, like a trademark on and just call it 58 00:03:40.590 --> 00:03:44.010 their own thing as if they invented it, right? There's so many terms tossed 59 00:03:44.010 --> 00:03:47.190 around. It's one of the funny things about demand, gen, it's like I've heard 60 00:03:47.200 --> 00:03:50.780 this talked about in so many different ways and still a marketer coming from 61 00:03:50.780 --> 00:03:54.940 more of a B two C space. I'm still like with you trying to understand the 62 00:03:54.940 --> 00:03:59.330 terminology around B to be almost feel like there's way more terms around 63 00:03:59.330 --> 00:04:02.550 there that people are throwing around the dimensions kind of one of them. Now 64 00:04:02.550 --> 00:04:06.520 when it comes to email marketing, that's where I consider, it's like 65 00:04:06.530 --> 00:04:10.600 where the middle of the funnel is where demand jin isn't playing as much and 66 00:04:10.610 --> 00:04:13.460 I'm not gonna lie. Like some people throw some shade on email marketing 67 00:04:13.460 --> 00:04:17.390 like oh we don't need it like UNGH ate everything. Like why even capture aly 68 00:04:17.390 --> 00:04:20.680 just like just keep generating demand until they show up at your front door 69 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:25.600 begging for the solution. I'm like come on guys like you can still invite them 70 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:30.560 over. And I was telling even Leslie last week that I feel like a lot of 71 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:33.880 people that are just purist when it comes to demand gen is they like to 72 00:04:33.890 --> 00:04:38.260 throw a huge party a great party and its for free. So when they invite 73 00:04:38.260 --> 00:04:41.740 everybody to the party and they have a little V. I. P. Section where they 74 00:04:41.740 --> 00:04:45.210 might charge the money to be in and they just put up a sign V. I. P. 75 00:04:45.210 --> 00:04:48.820 Section and they're like well when people are ready to come to the V. I. P. 76 00:04:48.820 --> 00:04:52.430 Section, they'll show up at the door and we'll let them in once they pay. 77 00:04:52.440 --> 00:04:55.720 And I'm like well like I'd still be sending some people under the crowd 78 00:04:55.720 --> 00:04:59.270 telling them about it and maybe trying to invite them over, maybe get some 79 00:04:59.280 --> 00:05:02.050 some refreshments by the V. I. P. Section, you know, trying to get them 80 00:05:02.050 --> 00:05:05.610 closer into proximity of getting in there. But the purists would say that 81 00:05:05.610 --> 00:05:09.940 that would be that you shouldn't do that, that it's incorrect, that you 82 00:05:09.950 --> 00:05:12.920 clog up your pipeline doing that, and that's kind of like this middle part of 83 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:16.570 the funnel, right? They almost go after the top and after the bottom, and I'm 84 00:05:16.570 --> 00:05:19.870 like, man, I think there's a lot of room for the middle, right? And that's 85 00:05:19.870 --> 00:05:23.380 what hubspot is all about, and I actually still think it works, it works 86 00:05:23.380 --> 00:05:27.250 remarkably well, at least a lot of campaigns I did, and be to see it works 87 00:05:27.250 --> 00:05:31.300 remarkably well and still to this day it's working for sweet fish media and 88 00:05:31.300 --> 00:05:35.280 we have some campaigns that James Carberry actually set up like a couple 89 00:05:35.280 --> 00:05:41.050 of years ago with emails he wrote that are still working well. So I'd still 90 00:05:41.050 --> 00:05:47.450 say emails, emails, alive, emails. Well, even the kind of prove that it's 91 00:05:47.450 --> 00:05:50.860 working well. We did a survey recently. We actually haven't released the 92 00:05:50.860 --> 00:05:54.960 results of this massive survey. We interviewed 100 B two B marketing 93 00:05:54.960 --> 00:06:00.710 leaders and what I discovered is that the two main channels they're using to, 94 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:04.470 that that are killing it for most of them. So these are people we've had on 95 00:06:04.470 --> 00:06:07.900 the show and then asked and had qualitative feedback from as far as the 96 00:06:07.900 --> 00:06:11.880 two main channels that they're killing it with is search engine marketing for 97 00:06:11.880 --> 00:06:16.190 top of the funnel and email in their train for the middle of the funnel. So 98 00:06:16.190 --> 00:06:19.140 I'm like, hey, I know we're all throwing shade of these, these two 99 00:06:19.140 --> 00:06:22.690 things, but I'm like, that's still working for most people. And I still, 100 00:06:22.700 --> 00:06:26.750 and I think the reason why chris walker and like his crowd are generating so 101 00:06:26.750 --> 00:06:31.870 much attention is because they know search engine marketing and email 102 00:06:31.870 --> 00:06:36.760 nurturing isn't enough, right? It's working, but it could be better. And 103 00:06:36.760 --> 00:06:39.850 I'm like, man, but I wouldn't change it. I would keep them running if you 104 00:06:39.850 --> 00:06:42.920 generate more top of the funnel activity and still have a strong email 105 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:46.370 nurture campaign going, then you can just get more people into the middle of 106 00:06:46.370 --> 00:06:49.540 the funnel. So that's kind of my general philosophy and why, I think 107 00:06:49.540 --> 00:06:56.830 it's still like a needed component. Hey, everybody Logan with sweet fish here. 108 00:06:56.840 --> 00:06:59.950 If you've been listening to the show for a while, you know, where big 109 00:06:59.950 --> 00:07:04.340 proponents of putting out original organic content on linked in. But one 110 00:07:04.340 --> 00:07:08.510 thing that's always been a struggle for a team like ours is to easily track the 111 00:07:08.510 --> 00:07:12.270 reach of that linked in content. That's why I was really excited when I heard 112 00:07:12.270 --> 00:07:16.190 about Shield the other day from a connection on, you guessed it linked in. 113 00:07:16.200 --> 00:07:21.080 Since our team started using Shield, I've loved how it's led us easily track 114 00:07:21.090 --> 00:07:25.000 and analyze the performance of Arlington content without having to 115 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:28.850 manually log it ourselves. It automatically creates reports and 116 00:07:28.850 --> 00:07:32.470 generate some dashboards that are incredibly useful to see things like 117 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:35.940 what contents been performing the best and what days of the week are we 118 00:07:35.940 --> 00:07:40.330 getting the most engagement and our average views per post. I highly 119 00:07:40.330 --> 00:07:43.770 suggest you guys check out this tool. If you're putting out content on linked 120 00:07:43.770 --> 00:07:47.920 in and if you're not, you should be, it's been a game changer for us. If you 121 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:53.080 go to Shield app dot Ai and check out the 10 day free trial, you can even use 122 00:07:53.090 --> 00:07:59.250 our promo code B two B growth to get a 25% discount again, that's shield app 123 00:07:59.340 --> 00:08:05.530 dot Ai. And that promo code is B the number to be growth. All one word. All 124 00:08:05.530 --> 00:08:13.980 right. Let's get back to the show. That's interesting. I saw someone argue 125 00:08:13.980 --> 00:08:18.080 this and I thought it was really funny. They said professionals are required 126 00:08:18.090 --> 00:08:22.090 are not required to be on social media, but they might lose their jobs if they 127 00:08:22.090 --> 00:08:25.760 aren't on email. And I thought that was really interesting. So do you think 128 00:08:25.760 --> 00:08:29.130 that, you know, do you prefer one method to the other or do you think 129 00:08:29.130 --> 00:08:32.470 that both of these can be used anonymously together? I think they 130 00:08:32.470 --> 00:08:36.789 could definitely both be used together. I mean, I think the more the more 131 00:08:36.789 --> 00:08:39.669 channels you can add, the better. The problem is there's only so much 132 00:08:39.669 --> 00:08:43.970 bandwidth for most companies so you can only do so many channels. Well, the one 133 00:08:43.970 --> 00:08:49.290 thing I like about emails, it's a lot of email nurturing, right, is kind of 134 00:08:49.290 --> 00:08:53.520 set up and then you can let it run its automated and a lot of people hate 135 00:08:53.520 --> 00:08:57.050 those drips sequences, but they're working for me. I was even just before 136 00:08:57.050 --> 00:09:01.600 this, this interview, I pulled up sweet fishes drip sequences. There's like a 137 00:09:01.610 --> 00:09:07.200 kind of like a lead magnet. You can call it on the website like a BB 138 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:12.410 podcasting guide of some kind and then there's a probably like 10, 12 emails 139 00:09:12.410 --> 00:09:16.830 that follow up once you download the e magnet and these emails get open rates 140 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:25.890 of, let's see 70% 61% 54%, 52% 40%. They always decrease as time goes down, 141 00:09:25.890 --> 00:09:30.400 but that's more attention. That's more conversation. People often reply to the 142 00:09:30.400 --> 00:09:33.940 emails which are now coming from me and we get a little conversation going, 143 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:38.120 they're working pretty well and they're introducing people to different aspects 144 00:09:38.130 --> 00:09:42.630 of who we are, what we're about. We allow people and we write them all to 145 00:09:42.630 --> 00:09:46.080 look like plain text email, so they look like they look like they're coming 146 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:49.310 from us, but people get that they're automated. It's not like we're tricking 147 00:09:49.310 --> 00:09:52.800 them. I just don't, I don't really like the html ones that I know James doesn't 148 00:09:52.800 --> 00:09:56.390 either. We write them like we would as if we were following up with them one 149 00:09:56.390 --> 00:10:00.260 at a time, but since people need the same information over and over again, 150 00:10:00.260 --> 00:10:04.590 it tends to work to automate it. So that's the advantage of email is that 151 00:10:04.590 --> 00:10:07.580 you can automate it versus podcasting, which is another great middle of the 152 00:10:07.580 --> 00:10:12.360 funnel way to nurture people, right way to build relationship way to get more 153 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:17.330 time and attention, or essentially to get in front of them more often, you 154 00:10:17.330 --> 00:10:20.190 can't automate that you have to continually put out new podcast, like 155 00:10:20.190 --> 00:10:23.300 the one we're working on right now, right? You can't put that on a drip 156 00:10:23.300 --> 00:10:28.120 sequence nearly as well as you can with an email. Absolutely. You know, sales 157 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:31.530 and marketing professionals do get really bombarded with hundreds of 158 00:10:31.530 --> 00:10:36.620 emails a day and a week and you know, you really kind of have that one shot 159 00:10:36.620 --> 00:10:39.670 there to get them exposed to your message. So what do you feel is the 160 00:10:39.670 --> 00:10:44.580 proper way to nurture via email? And what do you think marketers who are 161 00:10:44.580 --> 00:10:49.500 currently doing this tend to get wrong? I usually try to build their, it's 162 00:10:49.500 --> 00:10:52.510 almost like you're trying to build a bridge. So you have to consider at what 163 00:10:52.510 --> 00:10:55.820 point are they starting from, like what have they been exposed to? Likely 164 00:10:55.820 --> 00:10:59.380 already by the time they get into the email nurture sequence, Like what did 165 00:10:59.380 --> 00:11:03.140 they, why did they request it? And how do you deliver that as soon as possible? 166 00:11:03.150 --> 00:11:06.930 And it's good? And then where do you want them to go now? Might they might 167 00:11:06.930 --> 00:11:09.720 not be able to jump all the way from where they started all the way to sales. 168 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:12.950 Right? And that's the whole metaphorical funnel that we're talking 169 00:11:12.950 --> 00:11:15.820 about, like what next baby steps, But I like them to achieve by the end. And 170 00:11:15.820 --> 00:11:20.120 how do I build kind of a bridge of content on the way there. Um Starting 171 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:23.550 with what they're interested in and ending a step closer to where I want 172 00:11:23.550 --> 00:11:28.070 them to go. It could be a progression and as far as the emails go, it could 173 00:11:28.070 --> 00:11:31.350 be that you're delivering content and every single email and you have a 174 00:11:31.350 --> 00:11:36.190 little P. S at the bottom maybe with a time bound offer of some kind that's at 175 00:11:36.190 --> 00:11:39.330 the bottom of every single one. And it's the same, there's a number of 176 00:11:39.330 --> 00:11:42.940 different ways to do it. But like I said once you build it you can kind of 177 00:11:42.940 --> 00:11:46.980 set it and forget it and let it run and see see how it goes. You can even split 178 00:11:46.980 --> 00:11:50.510 test at some some people down one way, send some people down another and then 179 00:11:50.520 --> 00:11:54.260 pick a winner whichever one got more people to head to the side where you 180 00:11:54.260 --> 00:11:57.960 wanted or the to the end goal that you wanted them to get to. And that's kind 181 00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:03.130 of like classic email nurturing one on 1 is build these little journeys for 182 00:12:03.130 --> 00:12:07.040 people to go on so you can follow up with them depending whether they 183 00:12:07.050 --> 00:12:10.670 respond or don't respond. You could try to sweeten the deal if they don't 184 00:12:10.670 --> 00:12:13.850 respond after a while. That's what I love about. You can build these very 185 00:12:14.340 --> 00:12:19.100 simple or sophisticated campaigns to deliver the best content to the right 186 00:12:19.100 --> 00:12:23.400 person at the right time. Yeah. One thing I want to dive into with you is 187 00:12:23.410 --> 00:12:27.050 can we just talk for a second about the word nurture? Because this is something 188 00:12:27.050 --> 00:12:29.840 that we've been using a lot and this is something that I've seen a lot on this 189 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:34.020 journey and kind of going back to basics here. It's just an interesting 190 00:12:34.020 --> 00:12:37.760 marketing term that everyone uses so frequently. But what are you really 191 00:12:37.760 --> 00:12:40.510 trying to accomplish when you say like, oh, we want to nurture? Like we want to 192 00:12:40.510 --> 00:12:43.890 do this, we want to have a nurture email campaign or whatever it is. What 193 00:12:43.890 --> 00:12:48.320 do you mean by that? So you have to think about what? It's not nurturing is 194 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:51.660 not selling, right? That's what we're trying to avoid. That's what we used to 195 00:12:51.660 --> 00:12:54.870 do. And like, outbound marketing was just send a postcard that was a 196 00:12:54.880 --> 00:12:58.560 straight sell. Like, hey, do you have this problem? Because we got a solution, 197 00:12:58.560 --> 00:13:01.490 you should come check it out. There's a deal going on right now. Yeah, that's 198 00:13:01.490 --> 00:13:03.890 not if it sounds like that, it's not nurturing, You're just straight 199 00:13:03.890 --> 00:13:07.960 pitching. Um Gary V talked about it in his book, jab, jab, right hook, right? 200 00:13:07.970 --> 00:13:12.930 So nurturing is essentially the jabs, it's the service. It's the, it's the 201 00:13:12.930 --> 00:13:17.120 thing that you're doing to endear them to you in some way and honestly just 202 00:13:17.130 --> 00:13:21.420 helping them, just being helpful or being entertaining or being 203 00:13:21.430 --> 00:13:25.550 inspirational to them. It's delivering content that's of use to them whether 204 00:13:25.550 --> 00:13:29.520 or not they use your product, you are serving them with wherever they're at 205 00:13:29.520 --> 00:13:32.690 in their stage of the journey. On whatever topic it is. Right? If they're 206 00:13:32.690 --> 00:13:39.910 exploring uh a new email service, like a G suite or a Microsoft office or 207 00:13:39.910 --> 00:13:44.420 something like that, like where they at and discovering the capabilities, right? 208 00:13:44.420 --> 00:13:47.720 Or are they just exploring new options out there? Are they thinking about new 209 00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:50.500 productivity for the organization, which would be like really high level, 210 00:13:50.500 --> 00:13:53.270 Are they actually doing price comparisons between different tools? 211 00:13:53.270 --> 00:13:56.960 Now, if they're an I. T. Director where they at in the journey and how can you 212 00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:01.460 best serve them? That's nurturing is giving them information that could 213 00:14:01.470 --> 00:14:06.280 equip them or entertain them or a little bit of both like on their way to 214 00:14:06.290 --> 00:14:11.340 helping them accomplish their job. Fantastic dan. I have to put you in the 215 00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:15.990 hot seat a little bit here. Um can you share based on your experience the past 216 00:14:15.990 --> 00:14:19.240 couple of weeks and based on the interactions you've been having on 217 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:25.630 linkedin? How would you describe demand generation in your own words? I'm still 218 00:14:25.630 --> 00:14:30.680 trying to form my opinion on this as as you are, but even just listening to 219 00:14:30.690 --> 00:14:36.140 multiple people on our own podcast that you've interviewed talk about it. And I 220 00:14:36.140 --> 00:14:39.950 think I heard 11 thing that chris walker said recently that kind of like 221 00:14:39.950 --> 00:14:45.210 squared it up well for me. Um and he juxtaposed demand gen with generating 222 00:14:45.210 --> 00:14:49.400 demand and capturing demand. And that really helped clarify it a lot for me 223 00:14:49.410 --> 00:14:53.220 because it separates some activities, because oftentimes when I've heard him 224 00:14:53.220 --> 00:14:57.190 define it, it's a little bit too broad. It's almost like it's like almost all 225 00:14:57.190 --> 00:15:00.520 of marketing and he would say like all their strategic marketing, all the 226 00:15:00.520 --> 00:15:05.280 stuff they essentially the executive team lines up as far as like what's our 227 00:15:05.280 --> 00:15:09.660 mission, where we going, what's our major demographic, what's our product, 228 00:15:09.740 --> 00:15:13.150 you know, what's the price points? Those are like big picture strategic 229 00:15:13.160 --> 00:15:16.960 decisions that get made, where usually marketers, most marketers aren't even 230 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:21.820 included in those decisions you, most marketers just get to essentially do 231 00:15:21.820 --> 00:15:25.740 demand jin which is almost like all of us like, so demand gen is all of our 232 00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:30.560 jobs. Um that's a little bit too broad. It's a little bit too squishy because 233 00:15:30.560 --> 00:15:33.660 it doesn't, I don't feel like it fits well with A B. M. I don't feel like it 234 00:15:33.660 --> 00:15:39.050 fits well um with a lot of the lead gen tactics, but if you juxtapose it with 235 00:15:39.050 --> 00:15:43.620 generating demand versus capturing demand, it kind of fits a little bit 236 00:15:43.620 --> 00:15:48.030 more nicely. It's a little bit closer to branding, but it's less, it's more 237 00:15:48.030 --> 00:15:51.800 tangible than branding. It's a little bit more tactical than branding. It's 238 00:15:51.800 --> 00:15:57.930 somewhere between like legion and brand, somewhere, you know? And then A B. M. 239 00:15:57.930 --> 00:16:02.190 Kind of has its own little separate camp somewhere totally. Yeah, where I'm 240 00:16:02.190 --> 00:16:05.210 at right now, I'm trying to figure out and place it even in my own mind, I 241 00:16:05.210 --> 00:16:09.060 think different people have different definitions for demand jin. Um but I 242 00:16:09.060 --> 00:16:13.610 think it's a useful word and honestly it kind of describes itself, right? 243 00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:18.870 You're generating demand, you're creating demand, you're helping people 244 00:16:18.880 --> 00:16:22.520 want something that they didn't know they wanted, right? Which is kind of 245 00:16:22.520 --> 00:16:26.190 the game of marketing in the first place, totally. Yeah, I was actually 246 00:16:26.190 --> 00:16:29.320 just talking to someone earlier today who when I asked this question, you 247 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:32.500 know, how do you define demand generation? They said, well personally 248 00:16:32.500 --> 00:16:36.310 I look at it completely differently. Demand generation is something entirely 249 00:16:36.310 --> 00:16:40.220 different than generating demand and I was like, that's really interesting. So 250 00:16:40.220 --> 00:16:43.740 I'm excited to kind of dive more into that because that's, that's a new term 251 00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:48.520 for me. So awesome. Well dan, this has been so, so insightful, I've learned so 252 00:16:48.520 --> 00:16:53.200 much from you in my time here at Sweet Fish and on this journey in general and 253 00:16:53.200 --> 00:16:57.900 I'm really excited to see how we close out this journey into demand generation. 254 00:16:57.910 --> 00:17:01.900 Where can listeners find you online if they want to connect? Absolutely, I 255 00:17:01.900 --> 00:17:06.700 love linkedin. So go to linkedin dot com slash en slash digital marketing 256 00:17:06.710 --> 00:17:10.680 dan and connect with me there. Fantastic! Thanks again for joining me 257 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:11.560 here on GDP growth 258 00:17:14.540 --> 00:17:18.329 for the longest time. I was asking people to leave a review of GDP growth 259 00:17:18.329 --> 00:17:22.780 and apple podcasts, but I realized that was kind of stupid because leaving a 260 00:17:22.780 --> 00:17:27.950 review is way harder than just leaving a simple rating. So I'm changing my 261 00:17:27.950 --> 00:17:31.590 tune a bit instead of asking you to leave a review, I'm just going to ask 262 00:17:31.590 --> 00:17:35.690 you to go to be be growth in apple podcasts, scroll down until you see the 263 00:17:35.690 --> 00:17:39.340 ratings and reviews section and just tap the number of stars you want to 264 00:17:39.340 --> 00:17:45.060 give us no review necessary. Super easy and I promise it will help us out a ton. 265 00:17:45.340 --> 00:17:49.160 If you want a copy of my book, content based networking, just shoot me a text 266 00:17:49.170 --> 00:17:53.710 after you leave the rating and I'll send on your way, text me at 4074 and I 267 00:17:53.710 --> 00:17:56.050 know 33 to eight.