Your Next Move is in the Data, with Garrett Scott

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.240 Hey be to be growth listeners. We want to hear from you. In 2 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:06.080 fact, we will pay you for it. Just head over to be tob 3 00:00:06.200 --> 00:00:11.759 growth podcom and complete a short survey about the show to enter for a chance 4 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:16.760 to win two hundred and fifty dollars, plus the first fifty participants will receive 5 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:21.359 twenty five dollars as our way of saying thank you so much one more time. 6 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:30.719 That's be tob growth podcom, letter B number two letter be growth podcom. 7 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:34.759 One entry per person must be an active listener of the show to enter, 8 00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:47.520 and look forward to hearing from you conversations from the front lines of marketing. 9 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:55.280 This is be tob growth, this is B tob growth, coming to 10 00:00:55.320 --> 00:01:00.079 you from just outside Austin, Texas. I'm your host, Benjie Block, 11 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:04.480 and joining me from Nashville, Tennessee director of growth at sweet fish, Dan 12 00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:11.680 Sanchez, and from Louisville, Kentucky, our creative content lead, Emily Brady. 13 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:15.959 Welcome into be tob growth, y'all. Thanks, Bengie. Excited to 14 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:23.719 be here. Dan just silently smiling and looking it's fun to get to chat 15 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:27.760 about things that are current in and around marketing and in the news and I'm 16 00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:33.200 going to go ahead and bring something today before we jump to an interview I 17 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:38.920 recently did. I want to talk about CNN plus and been kind of paying 18 00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:45.640 attention to what they were trying for a while now and had my opinions on 19 00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:47.879 it and listen to a lot of people with opinions on it. But I 20 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:52.400 think it actually really does just come back to a conversation around content. So 21 00:01:52.760 --> 00:02:00.319 CNN plus, as of April thirty, is basically going to be no more 22 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:05.840 and is no more. So it's pretty abrupt the way they announced it. 23 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:08.360 It kind of it didn't leak, but it just it's like all right, 24 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:12.680 sweet, we're done, and in a matter of like a week. And 25 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:17.520 they poured millions of dollars into this thing. And so what sparks my interest 26 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:23.599 around it is from a content perspective, the play never really resonated with me 27 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:29.680 at all. Why would you put specific shows that aren't even really news shows 28 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:32.520 behind a pay wall when people think of a certain type of brand, when 29 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:38.039 they think of CNN anyway? So you're just trying to get into this already 30 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:45.039 pretty crowded streaming war space and you're coming out with content that doesn't really resonate 31 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:50.360 with your core ICEP. So I don't know what your guys's initial thoughts are 32 00:02:50.360 --> 00:02:53.439 on the news, but to me it was almost like a when is this 33 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:57.360 going to die, not when is this going to thrive? I was just 34 00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:02.120 kind of waiting for this to drop and I think it showcases how these big 35 00:03:02.159 --> 00:03:10.240 media companies still don't understand so much about content creation and they're sort of feels 36 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:15.400 like the lights are off and they're just like hoping that they strike gold instead 37 00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:20.360 of actually, I don't know, I don't know, like we have money, 38 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:24.280 will put it behind a streaming service in like our content will work because 39 00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:28.240 we are CNN or put if I mean you could fill in the blank. 40 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:32.439 There's several other ones out there that I'm looking at going that's I don't think 41 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:36.360 that's going to work. That's not going to be around a year, two 42 00:03:36.439 --> 00:03:38.240 years from now. But what are the initial thoughts? Emily, I'll throw 43 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:43.759 it to you first. When you had you followed CNNPLUS at all as this 44 00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:46.199 what are you thinking? I'm going to be honest, I haven't followed it 45 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:51.120 at all, but I think it's to your point of like, I don't 46 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:54.199 care about the brand anyways, and so it just makes me think of like 47 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:59.199 if you have a lovable brand like Disney, like sure I would pay for 48 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:02.439 Disney plus to get extra content, but if your brand is CNN or, 49 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:06.439 frankly, like any news for me, then why would I pay for more 50 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:11.360 of something that I already don't consume? So there's that and I think you 51 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:15.639 do have to have I don't know if they just weren't being strategic enough, 52 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:17.680 they don't know their audience well enough, because when I think of them, 53 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:20.920 I don't feel like they would have any raving fans that are like I need 54 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:26.240 more of this. Well, let alone cooking shows they were doing, parenting 55 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:30.959 shows they were throwing and other news out are doing this too. Like I 56 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:33.920 saw Fox is making a big play into crime, and so they're doing like 57 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:40.120 more investigative crime type shows. But that's interesting to me because I would totally 58 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:44.439 go elsewhere for that. There are plenty of other like free platforms that I 59 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:46.720 could go find that stuff. So I don't know, maybe they just weren't 60 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:49.959 reading the room, but it's also it also speaks to the point of like 61 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:54.680 don't just jump on trends just because everyone else is doing it having success with 62 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:58.279 it. Like there's a reason that those other companies are having success with it. 63 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:00.319 So those are my initial thoughts. Well, in the question is are 64 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:06.319 how successful are they? Because we have seen to like Netflix just had a 65 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:13.160 thirty, forty percent drop in their stock because the numbers were down. We 66 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:17.560 are even they were. They underestimated the success of Disney plus. So you 67 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:24.439 brought up Disney and we actually don't really know, like with apple and Disney 68 00:05:24.519 --> 00:05:28.399 like, how much they're bleeding when it comes to money that they're throwing into 69 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:31.439 this content stuff. Disney's in a great position because they had a back catalog 70 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:36.680 so full of things that already strike at the heart of those that like they 71 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:43.120 want more and they already have it, whereas a Netflix or in Netflix was 72 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:46.360 like the the one before. So they have had time. When you go 73 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:51.079 to like something along the lines of these other streaming services where they're creating content 74 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:55.199 over in a bubble and you have to pay more to get access to it, 75 00:05:55.839 --> 00:05:59.519 you see loss of finance, which apple probably doesn't care about as much. 76 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:02.560 They're just in the content game and will build it over time. But 77 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.639 Dan, what are your thoughts here? I think like having the reoccurring revenue 78 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:11.279 models just so attractive, but there's other ways to do it and I think 79 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:13.759 what they didn't realize is, like people don't like to pay for news as 80 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:15.600 much as they used to like. It used to be common for people to 81 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:19.439 pay for their news paper subscription and once digital came it's kind of like news 82 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:24.360 is just kind of free. I don't pay for any news related anything. 83 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:27.720 I just go to a site and maybe there's like, Oh, you have 84 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:30.439 to be a subscriber to read this article. I just skip the article and 85 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:32.600 go find it on somewhe other. Someone else has covered it from that angle 86 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:35.600 on some other site. It's so easy to get news for free. Why 87 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:39.759 the heck would I pay for it? There's an abundance, such an abundance 88 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:42.879 of Free News that I do what most people do and you just kind of 89 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:46.120 scan all the headlines and read one or two articles. And when I say 90 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:49.240 read, I mean scan, because there's such an abundance of it. So 91 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:53.959 why would I pay for it? It would be valuable. Is Limited, 92 00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:59.680 but I kind of see a strong value proposition is offering something valuable that's equally 93 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:05.000 appealing and exclusive. Oxygen highly appealing, but it's not exclusive. If it 94 00:07:05.079 --> 00:07:09.319 was, you could charge a lot of money for it. If you're drowning 95 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:13.800 right, you'd pay your whole life savings for it. But and then trying 96 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:15.319 to offer something. I know they've bundled lots of things into it, but 97 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:18.319 it just wasn't enough. The value proposition was as strong enough. where I 98 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:23.360 think they should have done is actually just gone and built like their own companies, 99 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:28.279 like probably a strong generic B Toc company like daily wire just launched their 100 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:33.439 own razor to compete with Ries and sold like eightyzero subscriptions within a week. 101 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:38.000 That's a freaking right there. Like CNN could have done the same thing. 102 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:41.519 It just launched their own businesses. And I actually for all my senses, 103 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:45.519 is a b Tob podcast. I think that's the opportunity for most be tob 104 00:07:45.639 --> 00:07:49.519 marketing right now. Build an audience, not so you can monetize it with 105 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:54.680 ads, like CNN has to, but your business becomes the point of monetization. 106 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:58.160 So all the creators are trying to figure out how to build the business, 107 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:01.000 which is hard. You've already got the business. Build the audience. 108 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:05.240 Mr Beast is doing the same thing. You just really just started a chocolate 109 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:07.639 bar company. I forgot what he calls probably beast bar or something, but 110 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.319 like you can go on buy his fancy chocolate bars and he's probably going to 111 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:15.639 make a lot of money off that. His Burger ventures already been doing very 112 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:18.160 well and all the other products these start and offer. Because he has audience, 113 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:22.480 he can sell products that are tailor made for that audience. I love 114 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:28.319 that point about audience. I think when it comes to news, specifically ground 115 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:35.080 news. It's an APP, but it shows you across left leaning and right 116 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:41.360 leaning news outlets, where how different stories are reported and it puts them all 117 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:43.399 next to each other and it shows you their headlines next to each other. 118 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:48.759 So people pay a premium for that to see where their potential blind spots are, 119 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:54.080 for where they fall, because they're accomplishing something that these other things aren't 120 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:58.919 and they're they're putting a bunch of content all in one place in their sourcing 121 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:00.799 it for you instead of you have me to go out and do it all 122 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:05.320 separately. I also think when I think of a podcast like breaking points. 123 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:11.000 I know they were the hosts of that podcast were on Rogan and that helped 124 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:16.279 them blow up and helped their podcast, but they were also in some traditional 125 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:20.960 news places before and then they did exactly what you said, Dan. They 126 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:24.960 built an audience and their podcast is free, but that they do things beyond 127 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:31.519 that because they have an audience for patreon supporters and those that will go the 128 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:37.240 extra mile for them because they care about their specific voice. That's I think 129 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:41.840 we're legacy media has judged wrong. Just because you have a lot of TV's 130 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:48.679 on and it makes viewers look like they're high in a traditional TV model, 131 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:54.200 doesn't mean they're willing to follow you anywhere or everywhere else. I think there's 132 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:58.720 a lot of implications to marketing in general and be to be marketing and how 133 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:05.320 we think of the content that we're creating. But the importance of building an 134 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:11.000 audience and it just shines so brightly in a story like this. Attention is 135 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:16.360 the new currency. I've been listening to interviews. I've been on a kick. 136 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:20.519 I usually go on kicks for all find like a creator or thought leader 137 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:22.639 that I like and then I'll listen to everything or read everything they've ever written. 138 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:26.840 Right now I've been going into a cody Sanchez, who's a woman that's 139 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:31.519 killing it as far as building her newsletter subscription. So she has a large 140 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:35.480 newsletter and of course she has info, products and all kinds of things that 141 00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:39.399 you can buy. But something she said that's really resonating with me recently is 142 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:41.919 that audience is the new point of leverage. It used to be it went 143 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:50.320 from capital to tech and now it's becoming audience. Those who have the audience 144 00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:54.240 have the leverage. Or CNN has leverage because they have an audience. They 145 00:10:54.279 --> 00:10:58.000 just didn't quite leverage it right. And that's the question. How will you? 146 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:01.159 Disney has the kind of content that we're used to paying for. We're 147 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:05.960 used to paying for movies. So and I can't get those freaking movies anywhere 148 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:09.240 else. I mean I guess I could go rent them on Youtube or four 149 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:13.320 bucks apiece, but if you're renting any amount of movies from Youtube or Amazon 150 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:15.720 then you might as well just go and get the subscription for it, because 151 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:18.039 within two movies, you rent to two movies in a month. Oh, 152 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:22.200 you've already paid for your subscription. Right. So Disney's and a sweet spot 153 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:24.120 and of course they have a whole business model to monetize the heck out of 154 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:28.679 all that like as that's why I love Disney as a business case. You're 155 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:33.000 like, AH, it's a marketers dream come true. They're so good, 156 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:35.519 but different models for different folks. See and and could a hit it big 157 00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:41.039 with something else. It'll be interesting and I'll definitely be paying attention to where 158 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:48.279 this moves from here. There was a breakaway from all traditional and now everyone's 159 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:52.720 kind of in this pick and choose model where you have to decide what streaming 160 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:58.799 services you're going to just take on monthly, right. And now it seems 161 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:05.360 there's a consolid station where, okay, what can we bundle together? Even 162 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:09.399 verizon like gives you Disney plus for three months. All sorts of bundles happening 163 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:13.480 to get those subscribers to those different places, and I think we'll just see 164 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:20.960 more consolidation and more pushback. Even in the as Netflix approaches twenty dollars a 165 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:26.840 month, there's going to be some fascinating conversations because we're starting to hit a 166 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:33.639 price point where you're going to see people rebel in the market. Well, 167 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:37.600 this is a fun chat and if you're not paying attention to it, pay 168 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:43.440 attention to what's going on in streaming because you can think of content over there 169 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.759 in the same way we think of content in the be tob space and it 170 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:52.519 just helps us be better marketers and it expands our our horizons a little bit. 171 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:58.240 So it's fun to watch. Today my conversation is with Garrett Scott. 172 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.639 He is the head of Marketing, growth and demand Jin at callendly. This 173 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:11.000 is a fun conversation with a fast growing company that is serving so many customers 174 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:15.240 and he has a background that we can learn a lot from. And they 175 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:18.919 are doing so much over at Calindley that we all find fascinating, right, 176 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:24.360 because it's an APP we've all had to interact with. Garrett Scott was a 177 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:28.840 fun person to interview and have on the show. Let's jump into this conversation. 178 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:33.159 Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm your host, Benjie Block, 179 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:37.879 and today I am grateful to be joined by Garrett Scott. He is 180 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:41.919 the head of Marketing, growth and demand Jin at calendly. Garrett, thank 181 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:46.480 you for joining us today. Yeah, I've been GIE happy to be here, 182 00:13:46.279 --> 00:13:50.159 fun to have you on the show. Let's start with this, Garrett. 183 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:54.159 Just give us peek behind the curtain, if you would, maybe high 184 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:56.320 level, like what is it that you're working on day to day, Garrett, 185 00:13:56.360 --> 00:14:01.519 and some of the work at county that you do. Yeah, the 186 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:03.679 day to day is is all about the growth for county. We are growing 187 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:13.559 like a weed and so it's really focus on augmenting are hugely successful plg model 188 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.519 and and bringing on that sales led side of the house. So getting systems 189 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:22.000 data, yeah, funnel work, all the fun parts about growth at our 190 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:26.080 countly scale. Yeah, lots that we can glean from today and learn from. 191 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:28.679 So excited to pick your brain a little bit. Let's go here first, 192 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:33.200 because we're going to end up discussing like ICP and specific lessons you've learned, 193 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:35.480 but I kind of want to just throw like a mini curveball at you. 194 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:39.039 I know you have a lot of interest in passion around online marketing and 195 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:43.600 advertising, from maybe it's paid search to social. I mean you're all over 196 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:46.879 the map. So do you have a tool and APP? Maybe it's a 197 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:50.720 social strategy that you're nerding out on right now. Yeah, I'm sure the 198 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.799 if they listen, they'll be happy to get a shout out. Working with 199 00:14:54.840 --> 00:15:00.759 a company called endgame dot Io Right and they are sort of reimagining or helping 200 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:05.320 companies with a huge plg database see into it for marketing. I describe it 201 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:11.480 to to our sales leader sort of like the predictively and scoring of yesteryear with, 202 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.080 you know, within for and sixth sense, where they were really looking 203 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:20.320 at your sales force data. But these folks and their competitors are looking at 204 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:24.799 your product database, your day of warehouse and helping you understand folks who aren't 205 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:28.879 making it to sales force, right. So we actually just signed with them. 206 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:31.519 So we're nerding out pretty hard. Yeah, a great, great group 207 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:35.080 of people over there and certainly with ten million plus people in a database, 208 00:15:35.679 --> 00:15:39.399 it's hard to see what's going on. So we are. We're excited for 209 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:43.120 what might come there. So that's probably the the latest nerd world that I'm 210 00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:46.080 in. Well, it's cool. Let's start with a shout out, and 211 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:52.080 it references. I mean, got a very large database, and that's that 212 00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:56.360 makes things complicated to a certain extent. Right. It's nice to have that 213 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:58.879 type of problem, but there's also sorts of complexities that come along with it, 214 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:03.679 and so behind the scenes, you guys have undergone a lot of work 215 00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:07.720 around ICEP over the past couple of years. Take me back to two thousand 216 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:11.919 and nineteen, two thousand and twenty, and we're calendarly was at when it 217 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:15.600 came to ICEP. At that time, like what were you guys thinking? 218 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:19.360 And Yeah, so openly I wasn't. I wasn't there, but I know 219 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:23.320 a lot about it. You so, like most pelg companies and products like 220 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:30.279 can only previous one for quip. That's solve a horizontal problem. You're solving 221 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:33.360 horizontal problems, right. And so in two thousand and nineteen, two thousand 222 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:41.440 and twenty from it was very much the super successful solving the nightmare of back 223 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:47.879 and forth emails, right and starting to release features built for teams, which 224 00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:53.240 there's a ton of now, but really letting the the product sell itself. 225 00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:59.840 Marketing was almost non existent, very, very small. Sales was very transactional 226 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:03.960 s more like a sales assist motion, which was great for coin only. 227 00:17:03.119 --> 00:17:11.039 It's super, super efficient, but wasn't specifically going after a sales buyer or 228 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:15.839 a recruiting buyer or those revops and demand Gen folks, because, quite frankly, 229 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:21.079 we didn't need to wear the game move. So how does that differ 230 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:23.319 from like where you are now, and and what was that evolution from? 231 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:26.079 Okay, we, you know, didn't need to to. Obviously there's a 232 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:29.440 lot. It's a lot more involved now. When you fast forward and the 233 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:33.559 growth and continues. Yeah, you know, it's certainly more evolved now. 234 00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:37.039 I think the pandemic had a lot to do with with it. You know, 235 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:42.640 scheduling links and just trying to get ahold of people in the in the 236 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:48.720 remote world has has progressed dramatically and I think what's really important as a cow 237 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:52.119 and leaf as a product has progressed dramatically. Right. It's way more than 238 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:56.119 just a scheduling link. It is built for teams to use to get things 239 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:02.119 like shared availability, you know, round Robins, those types of meetings and 240 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:06.519 events. It's built for that and when you start to solve those problems, 241 00:18:06.519 --> 00:18:10.839 you start to understand use cases and then you can tell the director of an 242 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:14.480 str team, don't you want to book meetings instead of just having leads? 243 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:19.359 Right, so your demandin and your sc our leaders can move even faster to 244 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:26.279 prospect and so it allows us to tell the unique stories that a much more 245 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:33.440 sophisticated product like calm they is tell those as unique benefit statements and value props. 246 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:38.079 You know, we had a mantree equiply, if if you tell a 247 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:42.039 horizontal story, if you try to tell somebody that you're doing everything for everybody, 248 00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:48.680 you end up telling nobody anything. And you know, the scary thing 249 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:52.440 is if you do tell a specific story and somebody who doesn't fall into that 250 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:56.559 specific story sees it there like Oh, that's not for me. But a 251 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.240 strong marketing team, a good marketing team, a good product, gets around 252 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.039 that because you target them, you know who they are and you give them 253 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:07.160 the right message as well. So it's scary to say, Hey, we're 254 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.200 just going to go talk to sales leaders, are recruiting leaders, but a 255 00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:15.720 well tuned marketing machine, certainly in the digital world that we have, can 256 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:22.039 target everybody with specific messaging right and use the technology right. I love tools, 257 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:25.200 as evidence by the current nerding out. But yeah, talk to me 258 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:27.240 a little bit about the bounce. Are Right, because you have people that 259 00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:30.759 are just are they know the cow only brand, the name, they're coming 260 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:34.599 to the site, they're checking it out. Maybe it's like an individual user 261 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:38.680 versus then you're also going like we have all this traffic, I guess is 262 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.440 almost how I would say, and you're trying to figure out how do I 263 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:45.319 take all this traffic, all this data that we have to get a real 264 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.400 picture of potential zep, how like where we're going to actually drill down, 265 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:53.000 because you're right, is scary with that much traffic. Like, don't break 266 00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:59.440 something that's working like and you didn't break it in any way. You're continuing 267 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:02.559 to grow. But just talk to me a little bit about how that that 268 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:04.680 process and how you guys are thinking about it. Yeah, no, that's 269 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:08.440 a great question and something we are actually dealing with every day and it goes 270 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:14.480 back to sort of my original remit and charter when I started, which was 271 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:19.640 not to change the PLG fly wheel, the pelg motion that is so successful 272 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:22.839 that countly, but to augment it. Right, you know, it's or 273 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:26.559 marketers. So we were good with words. So it's how do we how 274 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:30.640 do we find give the right message to the right person at the right time, 275 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:34.160 which is what every marketer will always say. But with the modern digital 276 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:40.400 stack it's a little bit harder now with in GDP are cookie compliance and whatnot. 277 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:47.200 But we are really leaning into personalization, using first party data to understand 278 00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:52.839 who our users are and not just present one one site or one page to 279 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:57.279 each person. Right, if you're coming from a well targeted ad campaign, 280 00:20:57.400 --> 00:21:00.960 we should give you that well targeted you know, and customized experience on the 281 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:03.759 website too, and then follow it up with with with emails and whatnot. 282 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:11.960 So we're really focusing on that personalization aspect because so much of our traffic are 283 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:17.039 those individual and users who want to solve the terrible scheduling nightmare out there. 284 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:22.279 And so let's let's not interrupt that, but we we do have solutions for 285 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:26.559 for enterprise class customers. Right. We are the only SSO compliant company, 286 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:29.839 I believe, really only SSO compliant one. So we have to get that 287 00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:33.119 out there. But we don't want to scare off the consultant make with a 288 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:37.319 side Hustle who's charging stripes through their counly. It's a difficult bounce and we're 289 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:41.519 tiptoeing, I should say. Yeah, you talk about the Tiptoe. There 290 00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:45.480 the tension I wanted. Did you guys like pick certain verticals are going to 291 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:48.359 go after first when you're doing something like this, or what is that kind 292 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:52.759 of look like in order to establish okay, we're we want to pick where 293 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:57.079 to jump in the water? Yeah, obviously some of it's done day to 294 00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:00.519 plays a huge part into it. You know who the buyers are that we 295 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:07.039 that we're seeing, but you know also just what's the Tan and how candidly, 296 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:11.519 how easy is the story to tell, because so many, you know, 297 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:14.640 so many people do know can only as the scheduling tool, but with 298 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:18.200 how easily can we tell the story that we are much more than that? 299 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:26.599 And so we took the obvious route. The the sales revenue teams at companies 300 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.839 are the by far the biggest market out there. You know, their scheduling, 301 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:36.920 meeting with external folks constantly. Here they're receiving requests, right, you 302 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:40.279 know what used to be lead forms, but now it's just book directly us 303 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:44.680 and kind only embedded on their website, and so that makes the most sense. 304 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.839 And right next to the that group of revenue generating the revenue teams are 305 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:52.440 the recruiters, right, and those are a bunch of obviously talent recruiters, 306 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:59.000 but also, like the the user experience recruiters, product managers who are asking 307 00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:03.759 people to the recruiting them to join their research calls. So those two are 308 00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:11.359 the very, very obvious sort of up market sort of company purchasing ICEPS that 309 00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:15.079 make the most sense. Yeah, okay, so let's talk about this for 310 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:19.440 a second. Let's you zoom out a little bit and just go as you've 311 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:25.720 walked through this, because there's so much traffic happening. One of the things 312 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:29.359 is, like you're going to inevitably hit hiccups, right. You think of 313 00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:33.440 these large like we think of tech, we think of Bob Sass, and 314 00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:37.640 we know that there's like trials and like we're testing things constantly, but we 315 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:41.839 also are very good at looking shiny, like like everything's just working and like 316 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.799 you know. So tell me a little bit of like what you've learned in 317 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:48.599 this process where it's like, okay, we're trying things and we're adjusting. 318 00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.680 Like what are those? Maybe it's a pitfall or a hiccup, you would 319 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:56.039 say, through this process, something you've learned from. Are Blessed, after 320 00:23:56.359 --> 00:24:00.039 months of work on our on our data side, to have some of the 321 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:03.599 best day that I've had as a marketer in terms of product date to tied 322 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:06.640 to user data. Like you know, our cust our customer sort of three 323 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:11.079 hundred and sixty world is really, really strong, and so we're rigorous against 324 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:15.400 more than just one metric in previous lives. When you move, for to 325 00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:19.599 to just one metric as your your North Star, you can get blinded to 326 00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:25.200 in efficiencies and changes in in buyer changes in the market, and so we 327 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:30.079 look at a lot of different indicators, not just how many people are buying 328 00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:34.200 from the trial, but are the people using it, because coin only kind 329 00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:37.839 only is free like that's it's really important to build the usage, not just 330 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:41.640 convert to paid. Well, Nice, you know, can only has a 331 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:48.200 lot more benefits on their free side. And then on the the sort of 332 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:52.680 sales led side, we're new and we're figuring it out and but we're keeping 333 00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:57.240 a wide scope of what we think the metrics need to be. I guess 334 00:24:57.240 --> 00:25:00.880 it's keeping up in mind, right like if you if you don't, if 335 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:03.920 you if I came in and said this is what work for me in the 336 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:07.480 past and this is what we're doing, we'd be in trouble. It's allowing 337 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:11.359 ourselves the freedom to experiment and make mistakes, because we do have so much 338 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:14.759 traffic right, we do have so much volume. We can learn quickly. 339 00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:19.960 So allow ourselves the freedom to learn. I love that freedom to learn and 340 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:22.680 just because of the scale, it's kind of what I want to tap into 341 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:26.440 here for the last few minutes that we have together, is to go, 342 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:30.680 okay, I'm imagining there's someone less right now they're they're in their car, 343 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:34.920 they're on a run, or they're just cooking dinner and they're listening to Garrett 344 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.480 and Ben you talking in they're going, okay, I'm not really in that 345 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:45.119 situation, but obviously iceep translates with these are conversations that we're finding ourselves in 346 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:51.839 across be tob tech SASS. So what have you learned in this company, 347 00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:55.680 in this process that you feel as a transferable to others, like, is 348 00:25:55.720 --> 00:26:00.599 there any advice you would give to those that are listening and they're going okay, 349 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:03.119 like I want to take something away from this and maybe it's a mindset 350 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:07.400 shift or a way of thinking that is now different for you that you would 351 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:12.440 want to pass on. Yeah, the first one that I'm so thankful about 352 00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:18.119 for our product marketing leader, Jeff and and the whole proct marketing team is 353 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:22.200 do your research, take the time, interview people that you think are in 354 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:25.720 your in your target account, in your target you know, I seep. 355 00:26:26.440 --> 00:26:32.680 Do Close one analysis or do close lost analysis? Understand, like even if 356 00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:36.359 you have only early in your company's journey, right, you only have a 357 00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:37.799 couple of deals, ask them. You know, I would bet people who 358 00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:41.359 are buying early stage companies want to talk to you. So talk to him, 359 00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:44.640 you know, and really really get to understand what it is those pain 360 00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.599 points are, and be honest with yourself. Is this something that is sustainable? 361 00:26:48.759 --> 00:26:52.079 Right, you might get a blue bird deal, but you know this 362 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.440 is it's in manufacturing. But, like you probably don't have a good manufacturing 363 00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:59.319 story. So, like that might just be a oneoff type of thing and 364 00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:03.079 don't don't get lost down that path. So certainly we do it here more 365 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:06.759 than than I've ever done. But but do your homework, do your research 366 00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:11.920 and really understand people and and commit. I think tiptoeing into two things is 367 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.759 nice and we're obviously doing it on some technical levels, but we are committing 368 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:21.319 to going to our ICEPS right, because it's then you you have the content 369 00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:22.960 you need for your bit, for your journey right. And if it you 370 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:26.720 are a sales led company or deals could take a little while or you're in 371 00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:30.519 the sales process, you have to like you can't just be like we. 372 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:34.720 We had a Webbinarre for sales people, example, and then not have follow 373 00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:38.759 content. Your your sales doesn't have what it's needed to get them across the 374 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:42.720 line. And so that's the scary thing. You do have to commit to, 375 00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:48.279 you know, multiple pieces of content creation, multiple targeting budget. So 376 00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:52.559 do your research and then commit. It's easy to pivot if you're you're paying 377 00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:57.240 attention quick enough, but if you don't commit, you're really not doing it. 378 00:27:57.359 --> 00:28:00.559 So I want to I want to talk about that, that word commit 379 00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:04.839 here for for a second because I feel like there's a lot within that, 380 00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:10.160 because you are testing things and if you've done your research well, then you 381 00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:11.799 should be able to commit to a certain extent. What does that looked like 382 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:18.559 from a content strategy standpoint, from what you've created for these ICPS? Like 383 00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:22.720 you say, okay, sweet, we're committed. Paint that picture for me. 384 00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:26.319 Yeah, we actually just had this conversation the other day that the marketing 385 00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.640 doesn't end when a lead raise their hand to talk to sales or jumps into 386 00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:34.680 a free trial marketing. There's so much of of work that needs to be 387 00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:40.759 done in helping the buyer get to that closed one. Certainly if you're selling 388 00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:45.319 it to an enterprise company, you know that has multiple stakeholders it or procurement. 389 00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:48.519 It's not just what we got them to raise their hand. Sales can 390 00:28:48.519 --> 00:28:52.119 be able to do everything from now on. Right, a great sales person 391 00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:55.640 might be able to, but a team of sales people probably can't at scale. 392 00:28:55.720 --> 00:29:00.720 And so we are trying and always improving at being rigorous around where does 393 00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:06.440 this piece of content fit and making sure we have pieces of content that for 394 00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:11.759 the whole journey. I candidly oftentimes think that what I what is an awareness 395 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:15.839 piece is really probably consideration and so being on it, like, because being 396 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:18.559 honest with each other and saying, well, we really need something even higher 397 00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:25.720 up or we need something even deeper, or even post opportunity creation, right, 398 00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:30.960 like it's a marketers job isn't ever done with an account or with a 399 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:34.319 deal, right, like I love seeing deals through, through to close and 400 00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:37.079 then then the upsale. Right, like it's easier to grow account than it 401 00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:41.640 is to find a new one. MMM. It's committing to mapping out and 402 00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.759 then making the pieces, which is hard and expensive sometimes so, but also 403 00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:51.000 it's you know, we do webinars in tournament to a bunch of different content 404 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:55.519 pieces, right, like a down funnel sort of decisionmaking. WEBINARC can have 405 00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:59.440 awareness level content nuggets. It's a good way to think about it. To 406 00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:00.960 Yeah, I think we if we create a piece of content for a certain 407 00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.359 part of a funnel, it's easy to just go into that mode like that's 408 00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:08.599 for this segment of our audience when in reality, like some of that deeper 409 00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:12.880 funnel conversation, if you bring it up to the top, like its surfaces 410 00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:18.440 all sorts of new potential conversations and in leads so awesome. I like it. 411 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:22.880 Intense research, kind of discovering those pain points and commitment, committing to 412 00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:26.279 the ICP, and I literally wrote on my I have a little white board 413 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:30.480 that I always write notes undering these conversations. The right marketing never ends, 414 00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.880 which for everybody listening, we all resonate with that. So I love it. 415 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.720 Garrett. Thank you for diving in here with us today. Let's come 416 00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:41.920 up for air here in a sense, and just as we kind of conclude, 417 00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:45.799 tell people first like how they can connect with you, and then we're 418 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:48.880 all, I would guess, decently familiar with Countlei, but obviously feel free 419 00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:52.359 to plug what you guys are doing as well. Yeah, the easiest way 420 00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:56.799 to connect with me is on Linkedin. I think it's just Linkedin, Garret 421 00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:02.279 Scott, or whatever the profile you arel is these days, and super excited. 422 00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:07.599 Speaking of Linkedin, conny just released our linkedin extension through the chrome extension, 423 00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:10.359 which is getting a wonderful ton of love. So you can instead of 424 00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:15.319 needing to open colony, you can just book put your links and event types 425 00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:18.960 right there, just like you can in Gmail and other male platforms. Yeah, 426 00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:23.160 and super excited. The back half of this year has an incredible amount 427 00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:30.640 of awesome product for for our ICP's worse, it's so much more than just 428 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:33.799 to scheduling link these days. Get your team out there on to the same 429 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:38.079 account. Invite your friend, invite your invite your friend co workers and and 430 00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:41.359 see what we can do for you. Love Him Man. Well, thank 431 00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:47.359 you for stop him by be tob growth today and really appreciate your time. 432 00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:51.519 Yeah, I know, Benjie was awesome. Thank you so much for always 433 00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:55.359 having conversations like this here on B tob grows. We want to help fuel 434 00:31:55.440 --> 00:32:00.799 your innovation and your continued learning within marketing. So thanks for listening to today's 435 00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:04.119 show. If you aren't subscribed, maybe this is your first time listening, 436 00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:06.839 feel free to do that. We would love for you to stay connected to 437 00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:10.319 what the content that we're putting out, so subscribe on whatever service you're listening 438 00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:15.200 on and connect with me over on Linkedin. Just Search Benjie Block and would 439 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:17.440 love to chat with you about marketing, business and life. Keep doing work 440 00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:32.599 that matters. Will be back real soon with another episode. If you enjoyed 441 00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:37.240 a day show, hit subscribe for more marketing goodness. And if you really 442 00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:39.839 enjoyed the day show, take a second to rate and review the podcast on 443 00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:45.079 the platform you're listening to it on right now. If you really really enjoyed 444 00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:47.480 this episode, share the love by texting you to a friend who would find 445 00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:51.599 it insightful. 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