Transcript
WEBVTT
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Looking for a guaranteed way to create
content that resonates with your audience? Start
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a podcast, interview your ideal clients
and let them choose the topic of the
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interview, because if your ideal clients
care about the topic, there's a good
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chance the rest of your audience will
care about it too. Learn more at
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sweet fish Mediacom. You're listening to
be tob growth, a daily podcast for
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B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names
you've probably heard before, like Gary vanner
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truck and Simon Senek, but you've
probably never heard from the majority of our
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guests. That's because the bulk of
our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors.
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Most of our guests are in the
trenches leading sales and marketing teams.
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They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with
tactics, they're building the fastest growing be
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tob companies in the world. My
name is James Carberry. I'm the founder
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of sweet fish media, a podcast
agency for BB brands, and I'm also
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one of the CO hosts of this
show. When we're not interviewing sales and
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marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from
behind the scenes of our own business.
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Will share the ups and downs of
our journey as we attempt to take over
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the world. Just getting well,
maybe let's get into the show. Welcome
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back to be tob growth. I
am your host for today's episode, Nikki
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I bey, with weak fish media
guys. I've got with me today Debbie
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McGrath, who is founder of hrcom. Debbi, how you doing today?
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I'm great, Nikki. Harry you
I'm doing. Wow. I'm still for
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excited to talk to you just there's
so much that is happening right now at
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this inflection point of marketing and how
that plays into recruitment, retention and all
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things hr and you just got a
well of experience and knowledge to share those
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today, and in particular, we're
going to be talking about why folks still
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struggle with engagement. But before we
get into all of that, W I'd
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love it if you would just give
us a little bit of background on yourself
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and what you and the folks at
hrcom are up to these days. Sure,
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Nick. So, first of all, I founded hrcom twenty years ago,
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which, believe it or not,
was before video even existed on the
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Internet. So lots has changed in
that relatively short time frame that I started
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hrcom, but currently we have one
point seven five million members from around the
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world, with a heavy concentration in
the North American market, and what we
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do is we help them to create
engaged and inspired workplaces. What we do
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is help the HR professional in their
career to maximize their potential, navigate their
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careers and, in return, inspire
the workplaces that they contribute to each and
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every day. We understand that there's
a large opportunity ahead of us to make
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sure that the HR professionals have the
right skills and competencies to do their job.
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We are truly committed to helping them
do a better, better job.
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Myself Personally, I've been in the
HR space for over thirty years, twenty
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years at the helm of hrcom,
but always passionate about helping HR professionals that
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smarter and better at their job.
And really what we're going to talk about
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today's engagement and what that also means
is measuring what they're good at and what
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matters. I love it and I'm
so glad we're going to dig into this.
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I think that I don't know that
there are very many other resources that
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are geared specifically at supporting HR professionals
and I think that the the sometimes the
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sad reality of that role can end
up being, you know, seen so
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much, as you know, in
administrative sort of role, I mean,
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which it which it does involve,
that people forget that these are still folks
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that want to be inspired, that
have passion and career aspirations and and that
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we need to speak to them and
for them in this same kind of way.
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So the space that hrcom fills,
I think, is really important.
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So if you had real quick just
to frame up the conversation, give us
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a sort of quick overview of the
state of things as it pertains to these
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these HR professionals and and we're sort
of the hiccups are when it comes to
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measuring the ex varience of employees,
contractors, Alumni, just folks along that
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chain for us. Okay, so
we're spending a lot of time talking about
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what we call the human experience.
It's a broader topic than employee engagement,
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because it's Nikki says, we believe
that if you are looking at the whole
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experience, you've got to measure the
perception of the contractors in your workplace,
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the employees in your workplace, the
candidates that apply to your workplace and the
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alumni that potentially could come back to
your workplace. So engagements a term that's
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been around for a long time and
unfortunately, even with the advent of all
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these technology not much has been done
to raise the bar and have more people
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productive or engaged at work each and
every day. So we feel that this
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is predominantly an HR issue. Hr
has to be more accountable and responsible for
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measuring the engagement in their organization across
all those four stakeholders that we talked about
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and until they can actually measure where
it currently sick exists and know what the
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issues are, they can't possibly put
any proactive measurements or tools in place to
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help improve the engagement or productivity of
people in the workplace. It makes a
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question. I'm super curious about this
because I guess at my sort of level
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of woman or my experience level of
the way, the way that I've engaged
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with H has been through here's how
you sign up for our healthcare and now
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we're having an exit interview. So
now that I'm constantly there and we're going
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to say I'm just saying, like
the fact that you mentioned candidates through alumni.
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I think is really important, as
I'm really interested in in what exactly
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some of those other touch points are
along that journey. Well, let's start
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at the beginning. So let's talk
about the candidates experience, right, so
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I happened to sit on the talent
board, which is a not for profit
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that just focuses on the candidate experience
and we have several hundred thousand people who
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participate in employee surveys every year,
telling employers, mostly the fortune one thousand
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in the US, but some global, about what it's like to apply to
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various companies throughout the world. And
what we do know is that the net
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promoter score, which is a very
impactful measurement tool, tells us that that
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application process is not ideal, okay, and that we are annoying a lot
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of the candidates, potentially good hires
or customers that could be working or using
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your company's products and services. So
if you're treated very, very poorly,
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and let's just pick any brand,
okay, if you're treated really, really
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poorly in an application process, you're
less likely to promote that brand or shop
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in that ran again. Right,
if you're not even acknowledged through the interview
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process and you firmly believe that you
have the skills to do that job.
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You don't think as highly of that
brand or company or place to work as
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you did before you started that employment
process. Right. So helping recruiters in
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this instance better manage the application process, measure what their net promoter score is
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in the candidate apply role is essential
because if you don't measure what it is
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and what the candidate perception is,
it's going to have lots of negative impact
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on your ability to create a brand
that's worth working for. It's going to
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show up on your glass door ratings
people talking about the process and not being
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a positive experience. I think it's
so powerful that you, as a leader
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in this space, having having founded
HRCOM and having had all this this experience
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with the many different functions under the
sort of HR umbrella, are taking ownership
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of this. I have to tell
you what. I've had a few conversations
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this week and last week leading up
to a couple of conferences having to do
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with with HR and and recruitment professionals, and a lot of those competitions have
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been with marketers and so you've said
pretty on an ambiguously right that this is
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something that is up to hr to
to own in a lot of ways,
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and what I've been talking to these
marketers about is, you know, how
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who owns it in and what part
of this journey right does marketing or recruitment
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marketers in particular, need to take
ownership of in their own right? So
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my question is, to what extent
do those two disciplines need to collaborate?
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Are you seeing that a lack of
alignment and collaboration? There is an issue,
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and what do we do? Well, it is an issue so nature
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to come. We do a lot
of primary research and we have a research
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report out on the state of recruitment
marketing which you can download from free from
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hrcom at any given time. But
it does clearly indicate that there is two
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things that are wrong with the recruitment
marketing position within an HR department. One
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is that these people do not have
the skills or the training to do the
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job and they were brought up as
recruiters, not as marketing people. Right
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to they haven't built relationships with their
marketing department that is collaborative in nature and
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can help both of them with so
they feel very intimidated by their marketing people.
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They feel that they try to put
them under control. They don't let
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them do the things that they need
to do to promote their employment brand.
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But the reality is they haven't built
the trust they need. So those are
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two very important facts that we found, which is all pointing to a skills
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gap within the HR department. For
sure, for sure. So how do
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we how do we address that?
I mean do we hire for a different
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skill set and in recruitment marketing,
or do we make their training more inclusive
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of these skills that we're talking about
once we get them on board? Well,
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there isn't a lot of these people
with these skills available, so you
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have to train them. So marketings
got to invest in some training for these
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HR people and Hur people have to
be open to idea and new ideas,
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new skills and new competencies. Yeah, other than other than marketing. What
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other relationships do HR professionals and HR
leaders need to build within an organization to
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improve the experience? We are talking
about, at the end of the day,
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engagement experience. So along the the
journey of a candidates would employed to
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an alumni to a contractor like you
spoke about. Huh, where else can
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we sort of fill gaps? There
we're so we talked only but when one
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of those four areas of the business. Right. So we just took the
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candidates, right. So, like
you started this conversation about your interaction with
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HR people. Unfortunately, that's a
lot of companies interaction with HR people.
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So it's also equipping all of hur
people with the ability to have meaningful career
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development conversations with the employees throughout their
life. So it's not just hire them
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and then fire them, it's the
whole career development. Setting expectations and goal
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les for people on a regular basis, continuous performance management and feedback. All
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of those things are really, really
essential and the roles that HR people play
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in developing their human capital, and
I love this saying their potential, right.
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I love this. I love this
what you just because, again,
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my fears was was a salesperson,
right. And so the people who I'm
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engaging with in terms of career path
and having those kinds of meaningful conversations are
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folks who really are kind of too
busy and who are kind of too self
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interested to really have that conversation in
a way that serves me, the way
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that are serves any employee, the
way that it would if it were the
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HR professional having those conversations. I
think you're absolutely right and that's kind of
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what I was getting at. So
there's the relationship that you talked about HR
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folks building with marketing, and then
here we just identified. That's for the
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for candidates. And then when you
look at the employee part of the journey,
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then there's a relationship with the respective
disciplines, right, whoever, whether
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it's sales or, you know,
engineering or whatever, making sure that that,
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if not just their their floor manager
that they're having these career conversations with.
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I think that's how retention happens,
right yeah, and I think that's
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how satisfaction and engagement happens. Now, what about this next step? This
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is the alumni part of the puzzle. Talk about what that interaction needs to
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be. Okay, if I could
just step back one session and say for
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them, lay perspective, two things
very clear. One is they need to
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be able to measure what matters to
them and their job and have clear goals,
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objections and KPIS. Okay. So
if an employee doesn't have that,
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they're not going to be successful in
achieving what they need to get done and
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they won't know what success or engagement
works like. Okay, so so,
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but that concept also applies to other
people within the organization. So the contingent
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workforce that shows up every day.
Maybe it's the people in your cafeteria that
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serves food, it might be even
cleaners at night, or maybe be a
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bunch of consultants that are working on
a big project you have. They also
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need that. Okay, HR,
we do a really bad job of saying,
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oh, those are somebody else's employees, their responsibility, but the reality
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is they're interfacing with your employees and
on your deliverables and your accountable for them
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making their goals. So don't forget
the contingent workforce. O, hell yeah,
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I did. I left out the
the the contractors or the contingent workforce
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as you as you turn them.
It's absolutely right, especially when we're in
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an environment where so many teams are
remote and those remote teams are comprised almost
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entirely a lot of the time of
a contingent workforce or of contract employees.
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And you know, you can really
see engage meant fall off because sometimes a
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lot of time the remote teams don't
even have an HR department or an HR
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professional on staff, and so you
sort of they are getting. Everybody has
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some form of HR on staff.
They may not be in the same building,
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but they're all available through a zoom
call or like. Very small companies
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may have an HR department of one, but they all have somebody responsible for
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the people management side of their business, right, and those folks just need
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to understand what the actual expectation is
relative to that organization. Yeah, I
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think you're so right, don't I
do want to make sure we hit this
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fourth one, though. Tell us
about what that HR relationship, instead of
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responsibilities, looks like when it comes
to engagement and the alumni, right.
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So, so every day we leave
we lose good people, right. We
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lose them predominately because of bad managers, but we lose them for life instances,
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mobility issues a whole bunch of other
areas. So many of these alumni
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are eligible to be rehired or be
boomerangs and come back into the workforce,
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right. So we have to have
a way of keeping in touch with them,
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communicating to them other opportunities that are
available and encouraging them to come back
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or to recommend other people to come
down. Right. So Char's job is
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to build that talent pool of potential
alumnis that are maybe subject matter experts.
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You know something that could that be
is for onboarding, training, continuity and
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their job or just having them come
back in a different role. Yeah,
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I think it's the right I think
that's an untapped resource. There's so many
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organization is that I've worked for that
I still so happy about what they do
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and still believe so much in,
you know my positive experience there, but
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who never know it because there is
no channel that's direct to them. I
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mean there's there's, you know,
third party sites where I could go and
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review them and things like that,
and there's one off conversations that I could
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have with folks on Linkedin if they
ask me what my experience was like at
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this organization or the next. But
this idea of it being a function of
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an HR professional and HR department to
keep up with that and it's really tap
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into that resource, I think is
really powerful. It's a charge job.
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Unfortunately, when you get into smaller
companies where it's the Department of one they
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can't possibly do all this work effectively. Sure it's HR is a complex area
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of the business, so you're only
going to see really great leadership development programs,
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really great attention to retention in larger
companies where people have the data and
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the resources to put proactive plans in
place. For sure, super hard and
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small businesses, yeah, yeah,
but we're worth investing in when you when
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you can, for sure. Gosh, thank you so much for the way
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that you laid this out. You
certainly taught me a thing or seven.
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So I was super glad that you
came to do this with us today and
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we'll have to have you back on
because there's so many more questions that I
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think our listeners, those folks out
there trying to grow companies, could stand
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to gain from you. But now
that I've successfully picked your brain and see
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what I could get out of it, it's time, debby, for you
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to tell us about what you are
putting it it. So talk to us
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about a learning resource that you engage
with. It's either of you in forming
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your approach. This just got you
excited these days. Well, two things
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that I'd like to recommend to our
audience. One is the book called measure
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what matters. So it is written
by John Doer, one of the top
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venture capitalists in the California market.
This really brought to light how easy and
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important developing OK ours are for any
organization and why you need them if you're
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going to scale your business. Okay, essential. I see this Okur business
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is being the next version of project
management. Every organization will use this as
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an operating system and every organization needs
training and education to do this better.
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That's number one resource. The second
this is a prepublished version, but I
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love this book called it's a manager
by Gallop. It is in mark and
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I think it came now, maybe
July first, but that while ago.
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But this is a simple guide for
any manager who doesn't have strong HR skills
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to figure out what is their role
in helping develop and grow their employees.
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So, and I love that you
have actual books as well. I have
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to be honest with you, I
listen to a lot of the audio books.
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So so somebody that comes in here
with fingers between pages. I respect
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that all day long and I know
that folks who are listening just like me
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have become fast fans of you.
As you are such a wealth of knowledge,
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people are going to want to keep
up with you. Tell us,
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Debbie, tell us how folks can
connect with you. The easiest way to
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connect with me is by email,
so d McGrath at hrcom, but I
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can also be found on facebook or
Linkedin and twitter. Twitter is demograph perfect.
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All right. Thank you so much. Like I said, thanks for
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coming on. I can't wait to
have you on to get in the future
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and and tackle something else and hopefully
empower more folks out they're trying to go
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businesses. Is specifically more HR folks
out there just trying to get the job
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done right. Thanks again, debby. Thank Nicky. We totally get it.
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We publish a ton of content on
this podcast and it can be a
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00:19:21.470 --> 00:19:25.500
lot to keep up with. That's
why we've started the BDB growth big three,
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00:19:25.940 --> 00:19:30.140
a no fluff email that boils down
our three biggest takeaways from an entire
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00:19:30.299 --> 00:19:34.779
week of episodes. Sign up today
at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big Three. That
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sweet fish Mediacom Big Three