1183: Why Website Traffic is a Vanity Metric (And What to Do About It) w/ Vivek Khandelwal

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:04.759 Wouldn't it be nice to have several thought leaders in your industry know and Love 2 00:00:05.000 --> 00:00:10.230 Your brand? Start a podcast, invite your industries thought leaders to be guests 3 00:00:10.349 --> 00:00:15.429 on your show and start reaping the benefits of having a network full of industry 4 00:00:15.429 --> 00:00:25.699 influencers? Learn more at sweet phish MEDIACOM. You're listening to be tob growth, 5 00:00:26.100 --> 00:00:30.500 a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard 6 00:00:30.539 --> 00:00:34.420 before, like Gary vanner truck and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard 7 00:00:34.500 --> 00:00:38.729 from the majority of our guests. That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't 8 00:00:38.770 --> 00:00:43.289 with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests are in the trenches leading 9 00:00:43.329 --> 00:00:48.170 sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're 10 00:00:48.250 --> 00:00:52.759 building the fastest growing BTB companies in the world. My name is James Carberry. 11 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:56.320 I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, 12 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:59.600 and I'm also one of the cohosts of this show. When we're not 13 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:03.600 interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our 14 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:07.510 own business. Will share the ups and downs of our journey as we attend 15 00:01:07.590 --> 00:01:11.590 to take over the world. Just getting well? Maybe let's get into the 16 00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:21.379 show. Welcome back to BEDB growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. 17 00:01:21.659 --> 00:01:25.180 Today I'm joined by the VEC candlewaw. He is the founder of I 18 00:01:25.340 --> 00:01:27.939 Zudo, the that how's it going today, sir? Far for having the 19 00:01:29.019 --> 00:01:32.659 head Logan, excited to be on the podcast? Well, we are excited 20 00:01:32.700 --> 00:01:34.489 to chat with you, thevek. We're going to be talking about how your 21 00:01:34.569 --> 00:01:38.609 website traffic maybe a vanity metric, and how to look at it differently and 22 00:01:38.810 --> 00:01:44.450 what to do and what to measure when it comes to your website traffic. 23 00:01:44.530 --> 00:01:47.840 Truly, before we jump into today's topic, I'd love for you to give 24 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:51.599 listeners a little bit of background on yourself and I Zudo and why you're the 25 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:55.920 guy talking about this today. Right. Thanks. Yeah, so I'm the 26 00:01:55.959 --> 00:02:00.400 big clean while I'm the founder and CEO at Aizudo. I started Nyudo with 27 00:02:01.189 --> 00:02:06.829 with the three of my co founders, meal, such an intriguant back in 28 00:02:07.230 --> 00:02:12.509 March two thousand and sixteen. This is our second business together as found is, 29 00:02:13.110 --> 00:02:15.900 though, we decided to boost trap this time around. Right. We 30 00:02:16.139 --> 00:02:23.139 now on a pot to jug out journey from getting do five, from five 31 00:02:23.219 --> 00:02:28.099 l onus to premillion dollars as a business. Maybe that down for about three 32 00:02:28.139 --> 00:02:30.169 and a half years. As I've mentioned. I love it as a bootstrap 33 00:02:30.250 --> 00:02:36.330 start up ourself here at sweet fish, we love hearing from other bootstrapped startups 34 00:02:36.409 --> 00:02:38.569 and the journey that they're going through. So we'll have to chat a little 35 00:02:38.569 --> 00:02:42.849 bit more about that maybe another time, but today we're going to be jumping 36 00:02:42.889 --> 00:02:47.240 right into how to measure your website traffic more effectively. Let's start the back 37 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:51.560 with what we mentioned at the top of the interview here, that a lot 38 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:54.759 of homes are just looking at their overall traffic metrics and that can really be 39 00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:59.469 kind of leading. It can be a vanity matter. I guess you say 40 00:02:59.870 --> 00:03:04.750 yes, absolutely so. One thing that we have, we are figured out, 41 00:03:05.629 --> 00:03:08.669 not only as a business but also as part of a larger mission as 42 00:03:08.710 --> 00:03:16.580 a company, is is how haw for the longest time market is across verticals, 43 00:03:16.659 --> 00:03:23.699 across categories of businesses, have been obsessed with with the Vandy metrics, 44 00:03:23.860 --> 00:03:30.050 irrespective of the scale of the business itself. Right and traffic sort of continues 45 00:03:30.129 --> 00:03:36.650 to plague the vision of the market here in action, and this is what 46 00:03:36.889 --> 00:03:42.840 also sort of becomes a very limiting agent for these marketers to create true impact 47 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:49.919 at scale. Right. And the classic example here is the fact that traffic 48 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:54.319 fundamentally is noise. Right, and I just sort of go after the literal 49 00:03:54.479 --> 00:04:00.669 meaning of traffic. Right. Look and imagine yourself stuck on, stuck on 50 00:04:00.750 --> 00:04:04.669 one one, stuck on classic traffic in one and one. Right. Or 51 00:04:05.229 --> 00:04:13.020 imagine yourself moving on the highway with traffic. Right. Anything which you see 52 00:04:13.580 --> 00:04:17.579 or see or observe is just again, what do you see observed? Right? 53 00:04:18.779 --> 00:04:26.810 What sort of really becomes exciting is when you get clear, clear attention 54 00:04:27.689 --> 00:04:33.410 from your site visitors. Right. What market is have wood? Market is 55 00:04:33.689 --> 00:04:40.879 start obsessing about in the early days, and often we don't even in the 56 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:46.920 evening, case of mature businesses, is they look at traffic numbers for every 57 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:53.629 single decision. Right. What actually matters the most is the signal part which 58 00:04:53.750 --> 00:04:58.589 essentially are which is actually what what I would like to call as own audience. 59 00:04:58.990 --> 00:05:06.029 Right, when marketers are able to convert anonymous traffic into into an owned 60 00:05:06.110 --> 00:05:13.620 audience, that's when things start becoming interesting. Own Audience is the way we 61 00:05:13.699 --> 00:05:20.420 sort of defiance is whenever an anonymous visitor commits to you, which is actually 62 00:05:20.610 --> 00:05:31.689 is converting their interests into intent and converting that intent into into a clear consent, 63 00:05:32.569 --> 00:05:38.800 along with their identity. In simpler words, whenever they, let's say, 64 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:45.079 give you their email idea or subscribe to your push notifications or give you 65 00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:49.709 their movies number, right to contact them, that's when they sort of become 66 00:05:49.870 --> 00:05:55.350 part of your own audience, giving you, as a brand, an opportunity 67 00:05:55.990 --> 00:06:01.069 to strike a conversation with you. It is actually a disappointed time you have 68 00:06:02.189 --> 00:06:10.019 you have access for that attention as compared to just having that attention, which 69 00:06:10.100 --> 00:06:13.860 is what the traffic eventually stands for. Yeah, that makes a lot of 70 00:06:13.899 --> 00:06:16.459 sense, for that cod echoes a little bit of what I've heard Eric Sharp 71 00:06:16.579 --> 00:06:20.170 from Proto fuse talk about. He is a cohost here on bb growth, 72 00:06:20.250 --> 00:06:25.250 the BB website series. Will put a link to that in the show notes 73 00:06:25.290 --> 00:06:30.009 because they're been some good touch points on that in the past in that series 74 00:06:30.050 --> 00:06:32.680 and he echoed you know, what you're saying here is that not all traffic 75 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:38.600 is is good traffic. kind of taking that a little bit in a different 76 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:42.480 direction, but what you're saying here is that looking at traffic is just one 77 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:45.399 step. As you and I were talking a little bit offline, you talked 78 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:48.949 about, you know, traffic needs to lead to meaningful attention, which hopefully 79 00:06:49.029 --> 00:06:54.990 leads to a meaningful conversation which definitely leads to an actual sales processes. Tell 80 00:06:54.990 --> 00:06:59.629 us a little bit about what marketers can do to start to measure those next 81 00:06:59.910 --> 00:07:05.300 more important points in their buyer journey as they move people along those different conversion 82 00:07:05.339 --> 00:07:11.579 points from just bland unknown traffic that that could be good, could be bad, 83 00:07:11.620 --> 00:07:13.819 but you know, at the end of the day it's really unknown. 84 00:07:13.819 --> 00:07:17.889 Right. Yeah, absolutely so. I think the first step really is is 85 00:07:18.490 --> 00:07:24.170 so fust it was really acknowledging exactly what you said right. First it was 86 00:07:24.209 --> 00:07:29.649 acknowledging that hey, or the let's say the hundred random visitors that come on 87 00:07:29.730 --> 00:07:35.519 the website, fifty of those are just landed there, right there. They're 88 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:41.759 not really your bias or they're not ready to buy from you. Right. 89 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:46.589 Some of them came back to the website because they saw your brand on social 90 00:07:46.629 --> 00:07:49.790 media. There are a blog about you or, you know, they saw 91 00:07:49.870 --> 00:07:54.629 a treat or they post or whatever else. Right. Some of them came 92 00:07:54.709 --> 00:07:58.740 back because you already had a knowledge of audio brand. Yeah, they were 93 00:07:58.860 --> 00:08:05.060 touched by you earlier on the journey. Some of them were existing email subscribers, 94 00:08:05.259 --> 00:08:09.860 for example, right, and some of them were actually your loyal uses. 95 00:08:11.459 --> 00:08:16.250 Some of them are your potential customers. I think the first step lies 96 00:08:16.370 --> 00:08:22.930 in for market knowledge that the split off your your off the visitor the website 97 00:08:24.529 --> 00:08:28.360 looks like this, which is flag bys people who come in and go away, 98 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:39.360 some repeat users, some repeat audience, right, some really loyal subscribers 99 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.110 and some people who are really ready to buy from you as a brand. 100 00:08:43.789 --> 00:08:46.389 Right. Once you understand this, that's when you sort of able to say, 101 00:08:46.509 --> 00:08:52.110 okay, I want to treat these guys differently, I ww to treat 102 00:08:52.149 --> 00:08:58.019 these different uses differently, and that's when the journey towards understand their behavior starts, 103 00:08:58.659 --> 00:09:01.419 right, and that's when you say, okay, I have these guys 104 00:09:01.460 --> 00:09:07.220 on the website. Now I want to have their meaningful attention, which is 105 00:09:07.700 --> 00:09:13.529 I want them to consume my content and at some point in way, at 106 00:09:13.610 --> 00:09:16.250 some point in their consumption, I would like to ask them a think or 107 00:09:16.289 --> 00:09:20.330 two about themselves. But, and I could be a very, very simple 108 00:09:20.529 --> 00:09:26.200 like hey, are you business or are you? Are you? I look 109 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:30.159 for something specific or you just browsing? Right, or so they like. 110 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:33.360 Hey, what's your hey, you have been here before a couple of times. 111 00:09:33.320 --> 00:09:37.240 Would you mind telling us a bit more about yourself? Something which starts 112 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.230 a conversation, right, something which tells you, something which one tells the 113 00:09:41.710 --> 00:09:48.110 tells the end user that they're talking to a brand and not a website. 114 00:09:48.950 --> 00:09:52.659 Right. And once that meaningful attention is sort of convert into a conversation, 115 00:09:54.019 --> 00:10:01.179 like, that's when you are able to establish some intent on the users. 116 00:10:01.379 --> 00:10:07.250 But and say, okay, I have some clear interest and intent for the 117 00:10:07.289 --> 00:10:11.529 steam from this particular user, right on our category or our product. Right, 118 00:10:11.850 --> 00:10:16.570 let's see now, where exactly are they in the Bier Journey? Right, 119 00:10:16.769 --> 00:10:20.559 and the Bio journey in today's world is really complicated, organ as you 120 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:26.440 would already know it. Right, people research, you and I research before 121 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:33.039 we buy a pair of headphones. Right, while buying software, people research 122 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:39.710 way more. They eat reviews, their real blogs, they check out competition, 123 00:10:39.269 --> 00:10:45.830 they check out a lot of stuff about the category, about your brand, 124 00:10:46.309 --> 00:10:48.830 before they actually touch your brand. Right. In fact, I remember 125 00:10:48.909 --> 00:10:54.899 a GT crowd stat which was which I heard from from the head of marketing 126 00:10:54.940 --> 00:10:58.580 and the founder. In fact, Tim which mentioned that the average be to 127 00:10:58.620 --> 00:11:05.049 be buyer touches your or reads about your brand at least about at least twelve 128 00:11:05.169 --> 00:11:11.570 times before they actually touch your brand for the first time. This is actually 129 00:11:11.929 --> 00:11:15.049 you know, again, given the fact that we laugh. We now live 130 00:11:15.129 --> 00:11:20.080 in an age where information is accessible easily about pretty much every single thing out 131 00:11:20.120 --> 00:11:26.080 there on the Internet. This is exactly what makes the buyer what gives the 132 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:31.720 control of the purchase in the hands of the buyer. We not living in 133 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:39.470 the S or or early where where information arbitrage with a play, where, 134 00:11:39.549 --> 00:11:43.629 simply because, as a seller, you knew a thing or two about about 135 00:11:43.669 --> 00:11:48.899 the market, you would have an advantage by the selling right bias on now 136 00:11:48.100 --> 00:11:54.100 and complete control off the boot chase cycle. And this is exactly what sellers. 137 00:11:54.299 --> 00:11:58.019 V as saw bit of V as software provide as vas. When does 138 00:11:58.059 --> 00:12:01.970 vs sell has need to get a line to if that doesn't happen right, 139 00:12:03.490 --> 00:12:05.850 we would be able to set up. Why you as a business meaning fully 140 00:12:09.169 --> 00:12:13.169 imagine it a spreadsheet filled with rows and rows of your sales enablement assets. 141 00:12:13.450 --> 00:12:18.879 You've devoted two years to organizing this masterpiece, only for it to stop making 142 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:22.600 sense. This was Chad forbuccos reality. As the head of sales enablement at 143 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:28.320 glint, a linkedin company, he's responsible for instilling confidence in his sales reps 144 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:31.230 and arming them with the information they need to do their jobs. However, 145 00:12:31.389 --> 00:12:37.110 when his glorious spreadsheet became too complex, he realized he needed a new system. 146 00:12:37.710 --> 00:12:41.070 That's when Chad turned to guru. With Guru, the knowledge you need 147 00:12:41.149 --> 00:12:45.899 to do your job finds you. Between Guru's Web interface, slack integration, 148 00:12:46.299 --> 00:12:50.980 mobile APP and browser extension, teams can easily search for verified knowledge without leaving 149 00:12:52.019 --> 00:12:56.899 their workflow. No more siload or staled information. Guru acts as your single 150 00:12:56.940 --> 00:13:00.929 source of truth. For Chad, this meant glent sales reps were left feeling 151 00:13:01.090 --> 00:13:05.169 more confident doing their jobs. See why leading companies like glint, shopify, 152 00:13:05.570 --> 00:13:11.210 spotify, slack and more are using guru for their knowledge management needs. Visit 153 00:13:11.409 --> 00:13:18.840 BB growth dot get gurucom to start your thirty day free trial and discover how 154 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:26.639 knowledge management can empower your revenue teams. Yep, absolutely. As you were 155 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:30.669 talking about research that folks are doing before they land on your website, gtw 156 00:13:30.870 --> 00:13:33.429 was actually the first one that was coming to mind, where big fans of 157 00:13:33.789 --> 00:13:37.549 the folks over there. We've had different folks from the GTU team on this 158 00:13:37.669 --> 00:13:43.019 podcast before and it's definitely when you look at what they're doing and how they're 159 00:13:43.059 --> 00:13:48.500 capitalizing on the research and the third party validation that be to be buyers want 160 00:13:50.179 --> 00:13:54.139 before they actually engage with the brand, it just fits with the way that 161 00:13:54.259 --> 00:13:56.610 folks by today. I want to circle back to something you said their vivec 162 00:13:56.690 --> 00:14:01.210 about that conversion point from traffic to an owned audience, and you mentioned, 163 00:14:01.690 --> 00:14:05.570 you know, you can use this with chat tools, you can do this 164 00:14:05.730 --> 00:14:09.289 with forms. We're actually looking at how do we roll out more of these 165 00:14:09.409 --> 00:14:13.960 tactics. So it's actually something that we're thinking about a lot here at sweetfish 166 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.120 in how do we get enough information because, like you said, there are 167 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:22.039 those three buckets of of traffic right, just kind of the passers by as 168 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:24.909 they call them in real estate. Look, you lose, then you've got 169 00:14:24.029 --> 00:14:28.149 folks that are repeat visitors and then you have, you know, loyal brand 170 00:14:28.230 --> 00:14:31.669 subscribers possibly, and so if you think about those three there are some key 171 00:14:31.789 --> 00:14:35.470 indicators that can tell you which bucket they fall in. And then you also 172 00:14:35.509 --> 00:14:39.179 want to figure out is this person you know? Did they fit our buyer 173 00:14:39.220 --> 00:14:43.059 persona some sort of lead scoring, and so that can be a lot of 174 00:14:43.179 --> 00:14:46.059 information you want to gather, but the more you add their the the more 175 00:14:46.179 --> 00:14:50.580 friction there is to that process. So what are some of your best practices 176 00:14:50.620 --> 00:14:54.730 or recommendations for by marketers to kind of walk that line, to get enough 177 00:14:54.769 --> 00:15:00.049 information to be able to serve those folks and segment their audience in an efficient 178 00:15:00.090 --> 00:15:03.450 way without turning off people with, you know, a nine step form that 179 00:15:03.690 --> 00:15:07.279 just takes too much and they're just like, I'm fed up and they click 180 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.440 away anyway. Yeah, you know, I think it's a it's a great 181 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:16.639 balancing act that we as marketers today how to maintain. Right. But I 182 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:24.470 think the way I would like to approach this problem with one look at the 183 00:15:24.629 --> 00:15:28.190 way look at the the browsing pattern. Right again, we could, we 184 00:15:28.269 --> 00:15:35.190 could all boil the ocean here trying to try to attribute, trying to create 185 00:15:35.269 --> 00:15:37.860 the perfect lead scoring model. Right, but again right. Let's face it, 186 00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:41.940 all of most of us out there do not have the time, energy 187 00:15:43.019 --> 00:15:46.100 and scale in the first place at times to even set this up. The 188 00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:50.490 ideas, to keep the ideas, to keep it simple. It sort of 189 00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:54.330 it traded, it read upon it as you go along. Right, the 190 00:15:54.409 --> 00:15:58.370 way I would started it is you look at the buy you look at the 191 00:15:58.409 --> 00:16:03.289 browsing pattern of the end user. Look at what kind of pages and book 192 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:10.519 of contents and user consuming on the website. Right. That's one important, 193 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:17.919 important factor to sort of understand where exactly is this user in the buying persona, 194 00:16:18.990 --> 00:16:22.909 in the buying in their journey? That's one second. Definitely look at 195 00:16:23.029 --> 00:16:27.909 the amount of counter that has been consumed. As the users on the block 196 00:16:29.110 --> 00:16:33.500 on the website, are there really scrolling down enough? Are they on the 197 00:16:33.620 --> 00:16:41.460 just quitting straight up? They just bouncing away from a website immediately at the 198 00:16:41.539 --> 00:16:48.529 same time as they're consuming content? Tools like forms and chat boughts are obviously 199 00:16:48.570 --> 00:16:53.330 extremely powerful to convert that interest or to capture, you know, capture them 200 00:16:53.730 --> 00:17:00.090 in that marketing moment, right and to sort of trigger a real conversation with 201 00:17:00.330 --> 00:17:06.559 these with these prospects. Right. If we have been using chat bots on 202 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:11.920 our website for quite some time now, in fact, we have now seen 203 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:21.990 chat conservation rates between three percent to almost eight percent, depending upon the intent 204 00:17:22.670 --> 00:17:27.230 of the page. Right, for example, a pricing page has almost a 205 00:17:27.309 --> 00:17:33.220 six point five percent conversion rates out of hundred visitors who land on the website, 206 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:37.500 site, on the pricing page, at least six people who would would 207 00:17:37.539 --> 00:17:42.099 initiate a conversation with us, which is a decent number to sort of start 208 00:17:42.220 --> 00:17:48.769 from. Right. Another metric to sort of track closely is how many of 209 00:17:48.849 --> 00:17:55.049 these us are actually giving you their details for you to for you to to 210 00:17:55.130 --> 00:18:03.400 establish a relationship with them. We've seen email opten rates or email submissie rates 211 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:10.799 to whold to hover around five to fifteen percent, again depending upon the intent 212 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:15.190 of the page. Right, these numbers would also start varying as you look 213 00:18:15.230 --> 00:18:19.910 at as depending upon these segment and the category of businesses you are dealing with. 214 00:18:21.190 --> 00:18:25.230 Right. So if you're dealing with SMBS, you might you might see 215 00:18:25.269 --> 00:18:30.339 slightly slightly higher rates, if you dealing with midmarket and enterprise customers, you 216 00:18:30.339 --> 00:18:36.220 might look a you might have human i's like lower rates. Right. Again, 217 00:18:36.299 --> 00:18:38.299 depends completely on your business in your context. But then this is what 218 00:18:38.740 --> 00:18:42.970 what we have see, what I've seen personally on a zoo too, to 219 00:18:44.089 --> 00:18:47.369 start with, right. What do you also sort of see, and I 220 00:18:47.450 --> 00:18:51.210 think this is worth mentioning, are is this and this is this goes back 221 00:18:51.250 --> 00:18:56.079 to our first point, which was not all traffic is great traffic. Right. 222 00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:02.920 In fact, fifty seven person of our traffic is generated from referral links. 223 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:07.079 Right. So we have powered by is zooto thing, which is which 224 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:14.190 is shown on a on websites of our of our castomers and our users, 225 00:19:14.750 --> 00:19:19.710 right, and we get terms of refer traffic from these websites across the globe. 226 00:19:21.269 --> 00:19:26.940 And guess what? This traffic toil rates the highest clatter, highest noise 227 00:19:26.059 --> 00:19:32.819 for us in our marketing funnel, right, so much that we actually decided 228 00:19:33.259 --> 00:19:38.289 to completely kill this traffic. We literally decided to take off our link from 229 00:19:38.410 --> 00:19:45.650 that from our from our prompts on our customer websites, because this is creating 230 00:19:45.690 --> 00:19:52.009 a way too much chunk in our marketing funnel. And then at some point 231 00:19:52.289 --> 00:19:56.279 we decided to bring it back, put on a separate landing page and say, 232 00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:59.839 okay, we will treat this traffic completely differently, will set up at 233 00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:03.480 different emergent fun altogether for these users. Right. So, yes, you 234 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:08.710 know, again retreating the point. All traffic is not good traffic. Right. 235 00:20:10.069 --> 00:20:14.509 Traffic depends on its source and the best way to measure traffic is by 236 00:20:14.670 --> 00:20:19.990 its intent or by its ability to commit to your to your brand, which 237 00:20:21.029 --> 00:20:26.539 is entually starts from one having a conversation or them summitting their details to you 238 00:20:26.660 --> 00:20:30.299 as a plan, which could be through a landing page form, through a 239 00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:36.009 content form, through a user to subscription or by simply signing up for a 240 00:20:36.170 --> 00:20:38.529 trial on your website as well. I of that story of Eveck. It 241 00:20:38.650 --> 00:20:42.809 really brings it home and shows that you guys practice what you preach. You 242 00:20:42.890 --> 00:20:48.250 know, we open the conversation talking about that all traffic is not good traffic, 243 00:20:48.490 --> 00:20:52.839 and you really demonstrated that with that story about, you know, kind 244 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:56.599 of turning off that traffic, actually saying no, we don't want this traffic. 245 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:59.359 Right. It could great to look at and it kind of strokes our 246 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.400 egos saying yeah, that we're getting this much traffic, but if it's not 247 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.910 good traffic. And so I like the progression that you guys went through there, 248 00:21:06.029 --> 00:21:07.990 turning it off but then turning it back on, but doing it in 249 00:21:08.430 --> 00:21:12.029 a more calculated way so that you could measure that, you could filter it, 250 00:21:12.069 --> 00:21:17.509 it doesn't just become noise. So I think you've provided some great examples 251 00:21:17.549 --> 00:21:21.819 of what folks can do, not just kind of spouting hey, website traffic 252 00:21:21.859 --> 00:21:25.700 is a vanity metric and and so stop measuring it, but what you can 253 00:21:25.700 --> 00:21:27.500 do about it. So that was a great example. You also talked about, 254 00:21:27.740 --> 00:21:32.819 you know, the three buckets, gathering information to not only leads for 255 00:21:33.009 --> 00:21:36.650 the folks that are visiting your website, but try to determine what level they're 256 00:21:36.690 --> 00:21:41.009 at in intent. Are they a passer by, are they a repeat visitor 257 00:21:41.049 --> 00:21:45.769 or are they, you know, a regular subscriber consumer of your content, 258 00:21:45.890 --> 00:21:51.640 whether you're a BB brand or a media company? I think understanding those three 259 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:55.440 buckets, as well as your lead scoring, is very important. The Beck. 260 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:59.039 If anybody listening to this would like to ask any follow up questions or 261 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:02.990 stay connected with you or learn more about what you and the team over at 262 00:22:03.029 --> 00:22:04.750 Isodo or up to these days, what's the best way for them to reach 263 00:22:04.789 --> 00:22:11.109 out and can tinue this conversation? Sure so. You could find me on 264 00:22:11.269 --> 00:22:17.700 twitter. My twitter handle is at the rate we we gay gay, Livg 265 00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:21.619 Gay. That's bread with a handle, right, that's the best place to 266 00:22:22.740 --> 00:22:26.420 reach out. I'm usually tweeting being the out see. Yeah, that's a 267 00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:30.410 great bass out of a conversation. All Right, I love it. Well, 268 00:22:30.490 --> 00:22:33.329 the VEC will also link to your linkedin profile here in the show notes. 269 00:22:33.329 --> 00:22:36.970 I also, as I mentioned, drop make sure that we drop it 270 00:22:37.049 --> 00:22:40.769 in the show notes a link to our BB website series. If you like 271 00:22:40.970 --> 00:22:48.319 this episode you want some more tactical advice on building your website two for better 272 00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:52.039 demandin and lead conversion, check that out. You can also go to sweet 273 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:56.680 phish Mediacom blog. Look for the category the HASHTAG BB websites in the categories 274 00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:00.549 on the right hand side. All right, but that this was a great 275 00:23:00.589 --> 00:23:03.230 conversation. Thank you so much for joining us in the show today. I 276 00:23:03.269 --> 00:23:06.269 really appreciate it. Man, thank you so much, Lugan. Love lead 277 00:23:06.309 --> 00:23:11.670 over with you. We totally get it. We publish a ton of content 278 00:23:11.789 --> 00:23:14.980 on this podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. That's 279 00:23:15.019 --> 00:23:18.539 why we've started the BB growth big three, a no fluff email that boils 280 00:23:18.619 --> 00:23:23.259 down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today 281 00:23:23.299 --> 00:23:30.930 at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three