1203: How Facebook Doubled Productivity to $1.8 MM per Employee w/ Tim Campos

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.799 --> 00:00:10.310 A relationship with the right referral partner could be a game changer for any BEDB 2 00:00:10.429 --> 00:00:15.070 company. So what if you could reverse engineer these relationships at a moment's notice, 3 00:00:15.070 --> 00:00:20.469 start a podcast, invite potential referral partners to be guests on your show 4 00:00:21.149 --> 00:00:26.940 and grow your referral network faster than ever. Learn more. At sweetfish Mediacom 5 00:00:32.140 --> 00:00:37.250 you're listening to BB growth, a daily podcast for B TOB leaders. We've 6 00:00:37.289 --> 00:00:41.049 interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vannerd truck and Simon Senek, 7 00:00:41.409 --> 00:00:45.609 but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. That's because the 8 00:00:45.729 --> 00:00:50.479 bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most of our guests 9 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:55.039 are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy, they're 10 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:59.799 experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BB companies in the world. 11 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:03.439 My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish media, a 12 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:07.230 podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of the CO hosts of 13 00:01:07.349 --> 00:01:11.629 this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear stories 14 00:01:11.670 --> 00:01:15.390 from behind the scenes of our own business. Will share the ups and downs 15 00:01:15.430 --> 00:01:19.099 of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. Just kidding. 16 00:01:19.739 --> 00:01:29.379 Well, maybe let's get into the show. Welcome back to to be growth. 17 00:01:29.459 --> 00:01:33.450 I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. Today I'm joined by Tim Campos. 18 00:01:33.530 --> 00:01:37.290 He is the CEO over at woven he's also the former CIO at a 19 00:01:37.329 --> 00:01:38.930 little known company called facebook. Tim, how's it going today? Man, 20 00:01:40.250 --> 00:01:42.329 I'm great to be here. Thanks for having me. Absolutely man, your 21 00:01:42.489 --> 00:01:47.239 time at facebook is going to be something crucial to the conversation here. You 22 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:52.079 were a part of a large push there that ended up doubling productivity for the 23 00:01:52.159 --> 00:01:56.400 facebook workplace and as we kind of unpack that story and talk about some of 24 00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:00.319 the the myths and and things, we can think about improving our productivity in 25 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:02.469 two thousand and twenty. Is What we're going to be really talking about today. 26 00:02:02.510 --> 00:02:05.510 But before we jump straight to that, give us a little bit of 27 00:02:05.590 --> 00:02:07.990 context. I'd love for you to introduce yourself to listeners and tell us a 28 00:02:07.990 --> 00:02:10.509 little bit about what you in the woven teamer up to these days. Man, 29 00:02:10.789 --> 00:02:14.389 yeah, thanks for let me do that. You know, for those 30 00:02:14.430 --> 00:02:19.300 people who don't know me, I CEO of woven former CIO of facebook. 31 00:02:19.340 --> 00:02:22.699 I was a cio of another company before that and really, you know, 32 00:02:22.860 --> 00:02:27.580 just an even deeper understanding of who I am. I my around is technology, 33 00:02:27.699 --> 00:02:30.770 software engineering, and I love the fusion of Technology and business as one 34 00:02:30.810 --> 00:02:36.849 of the things that has really defined my career, and I have pretty much 35 00:02:36.849 --> 00:02:43.490 exclusively been in rolls that use technology to enable the productivity of others pretty much 36 00:02:43.569 --> 00:02:46.319 from from the beginning of my career. So that's something I'm very passionate about. 37 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:51.560 It's something that's spent a lot of time thinking about. Wolven just says 38 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:54.960 a brief introduction to the company. Is a system that uses the calendar to 39 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:59.069 help people spend time on what matters most, and we do that by making 40 00:02:59.069 --> 00:03:04.189 your existing calendar more intelligent and providing a bunch of superpowers, if you will, 41 00:03:04.469 --> 00:03:08.069 the things that your counter cannot do. It really should add, specifically 42 00:03:08.110 --> 00:03:12.509 designed to help you spend time on the things that you really want to spend 43 00:03:12.550 --> 00:03:15.500 time on. I love it and I love that mission that you guys are 44 00:03:15.539 --> 00:03:19.340 going after. You know, I've been quoted as saying I sometimes just do 45 00:03:19.460 --> 00:03:22.180 what my calendar tells me to do. So the fact that you guys are 46 00:03:22.219 --> 00:03:24.939 bringing more intelligence there and we're going to be having a conversation about, you 47 00:03:25.020 --> 00:03:29.250 know, some of the things that we may be doing wrong and some tweaks 48 00:03:29.289 --> 00:03:32.849 that we can make to make ourselves more productive and actually maybe like to start 49 00:03:32.849 --> 00:03:37.210 out there tim talking about, you know, maybe some of the myths that 50 00:03:37.370 --> 00:03:40.479 we tell ourselves or that we believe about productivity. I imagine there's probably going 51 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:45.840 to be something here around multitasking, maybe some other commonly used terms that come 52 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:49.599 up when we're talking productivity and getting more done. What are some of those 53 00:03:49.719 --> 00:03:53.680 that you think are commonly held and you guys are dispelling or you're speaking to 54 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:57.550 a lot? Yeah, I'man. So there's their several. I mean one, 55 00:03:57.949 --> 00:04:00.909 I think maybe a start to start with, a slightly obvious one. 56 00:04:00.789 --> 00:04:05.349 Productivity is not about working harder, and you know a lot of people know 57 00:04:05.590 --> 00:04:09.509 that, but when they get down into the breast tacks, they they kind 58 00:04:09.550 --> 00:04:12.580 of feel like, Oh, you know, I've got to be productive today, 59 00:04:12.580 --> 00:04:15.579 so I'm going to work late or I'm going to spend more time on 60 00:04:15.740 --> 00:04:23.540 something, but oftentimes that's not the issue. The issue is just looking at 61 00:04:23.540 --> 00:04:28.529 the environment that you're in. What other kinds of tractions do you have another 62 00:04:28.610 --> 00:04:30.889 thing is that, you know, there are not all tasks or the same. 63 00:04:31.129 --> 00:04:33.769 So when we think about our productivity, we have to sort of break 64 00:04:33.810 --> 00:04:39.920 our lives down into, you know, the what I like to describe as 65 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:45.560 maker time versus manager time. There's certain activities, tasks, there's been a 66 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:49.319 ton of books written about this, that required deep focus. Not Everything is 67 00:04:49.480 --> 00:04:53.990 like that. You know, approving some an offer letter for a candidate that 68 00:04:54.069 --> 00:04:56.629 just got into my email doesn't require deep focus. I don't need to spend 69 00:04:56.629 --> 00:04:58.350 a lot of time thinking about it, but I need to do it and 70 00:04:58.389 --> 00:05:00.509 I have a lot of little things like that that come around. Those things 71 00:05:00.550 --> 00:05:04.189 are basically affect my my ability to manage my life. That's why I call 72 00:05:04.310 --> 00:05:08.899 manager time. But then the then there's the things that really make a huge 73 00:05:08.939 --> 00:05:14.379 difference in either my success or my organization success or my company success. Those 74 00:05:14.660 --> 00:05:19.060 often require focus, uninterrupted time where, you know, that really important offer 75 00:05:19.100 --> 00:05:23.490 that needs to be approved actually gets in the way of me getting my pitch 76 00:05:23.569 --> 00:05:28.889 deck done for investors or in putting together a big marketing campaign we might be 77 00:05:28.970 --> 00:05:33.050 driving. So the more you can understand the difference between your tasks, those 78 00:05:33.129 --> 00:05:39.279 that are maker related modes that are more manager related and Structure Your Day so 79 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:45.000 that you're doing the things that require, you know, a lack of interruption 80 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:48.240 at a specific time of day where you've created that space for yourself, you 81 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:53.670 can get a ton more done. I like that. You know a lot, 82 00:05:53.709 --> 00:05:57.990 I think has helped me and thinking about different task and categorizing them between 83 00:05:58.430 --> 00:06:00.509 urgent and important. You know, we tend to think of those, you 84 00:06:00.589 --> 00:06:05.540 know, for traditional boxes of urgent and important. In the end the various 85 00:06:05.540 --> 00:06:10.019 stages there. But what you're saying is basically you know you have that, 86 00:06:10.259 --> 00:06:14.899 but then layer on this other aspect, not forgetting about those, but then 87 00:06:14.939 --> 00:06:19.209 thinking about which ones require deep thinking and deep work is, you know calnewport 88 00:06:19.290 --> 00:06:24.050 puts it, and which ones are important but just require, you know, 89 00:06:24.129 --> 00:06:26.850 kind of hey I can do this in three minutes or less sort of thing. 90 00:06:27.170 --> 00:06:31.529 Absolutely, absolutely, and both are important, right and obviously the the 91 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:35.920 unimportant non urge and Tash you just want to get rid of. But you 92 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:41.240 can have important tasks that don't require thought, you can have important tasks that 93 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:46.360 require deep thought, deport keep thinking and it. But you really need to 94 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:49.829 treat those two things as very different and and it ultimately gets to how you 95 00:06:49.910 --> 00:06:54.670 schedule your time. The Real, the reality. Forgot the calendar for a 96 00:06:54.750 --> 00:06:59.790 second. The thing that defines us more than anything, it's not our titles, 97 00:06:59.829 --> 00:07:01.300 it's not our reism is, it's not the companies that we work at, 98 00:07:01.500 --> 00:07:06.500 is how we choose to spend our time, and therefore the most important 99 00:07:06.540 --> 00:07:11.579 decision that we can make is how we're going to spend an allocade our time. 100 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:15.810 The challenge is that we all have the same amount of it, right, 101 00:07:15.850 --> 00:07:17.730 it doesn't matter how like who you are, what you do. Be 102 00:07:17.769 --> 00:07:20.329 a project manager, you could be a product manager, you could be a 103 00:07:20.410 --> 00:07:24.529 head sales person, marketing person, you could be the seat Yo of a 104 00:07:24.689 --> 00:07:28.449 giant company. Will All have twenty four hours in a day and we're defined 105 00:07:28.490 --> 00:07:30.920 by how we choose to spend that time. And you can cheat. You 106 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:34.240 can say I'm not going to sleep as much or I'm not going to work 107 00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:38.800 out so I get more time to get more stuff done. Those things tend 108 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:42.879 to be piric. Yeah, the yeah, the better strategy, strategy that 109 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:48.269 defines the super successful separate from the the mediocre, is, you know, 110 00:07:48.550 --> 00:07:53.550 how people choose to spend an allocator. Yeah, and it goes back to 111 00:07:53.589 --> 00:07:56.990 what you said. Being productive is it getting more done in more time. 112 00:07:57.110 --> 00:08:01.139 It's getting more done in less time and getting the right things done. It's 113 00:08:01.139 --> 00:08:03.699 almost like you were listening to our episode that just dropped yesterday where we're talking 114 00:08:03.699 --> 00:08:07.980 about health and the end keeping that as a priority, especially in high growth 115 00:08:09.019 --> 00:08:11.779 companies. We talked about, you know, stop wearing busy as a badge 116 00:08:11.819 --> 00:08:16.610 of honor. So anyway folks can can go back one episode and check that 117 00:08:16.689 --> 00:08:18.209 out. You know, tim as, I think about the way that you 118 00:08:18.290 --> 00:08:24.209 guys are helping folks rethink the calendar, calendar and email, or two things 119 00:08:24.250 --> 00:08:26.879 that just drive the modern workforce today. And you know, I heard a 120 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:31.480 really great quote about email. I forgive whoever I heard this from and I 121 00:08:31.559 --> 00:08:35.480 might not be able to quote it perfectly, but basically the ideas this that 122 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:41.470 your email is nothing more than a highly organized, easy to read to do 123 00:08:41.669 --> 00:08:46.190 list given to you by other people. and to me that kind of changed 124 00:08:46.269 --> 00:08:50.710 my thinking about email and always going to my inbox as the first thing that 125 00:08:50.789 --> 00:08:54.549 I do. Is there kind of a themlar shift that you guys are talking 126 00:08:54.629 --> 00:08:58.700 to folks about when it comes to their calendar, time blocking, you know, 127 00:08:58.820 --> 00:09:01.460 and how they approach their time when it comes to the calendar, another 128 00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:05.500 key piece of knowledge work these days. Yes, well, let's go back 129 00:09:05.539 --> 00:09:09.500 and let's look at the this genre productivity software, because the email and calendar 130 00:09:09.580 --> 00:09:13.730 both came to light at roughly the same period of time. They were digitized 131 00:09:13.769 --> 00:09:16.490 at the same time. Their precursors, however, were very different. So 132 00:09:18.049 --> 00:09:20.769 email is the electronic version of the memoranda. Right, a memorand is a 133 00:09:20.769 --> 00:09:26.000 very structured, forward, formal document. You know, I never worked in 134 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:28.600 an environment like this, but anybody who worked in the s or the s 135 00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:31.799 right, you know, memoranda's how people got stuff done. It was these. 136 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.480 So they memoranda. In today's Day and age, however, those, 137 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:39.549 the memoranda, is kind of Diet. Is a mechanism, because it's as 138 00:09:39.710 --> 00:09:46.350 email became electronic. You know, we were able to know not only use 139 00:09:46.470 --> 00:09:50.110 this formal communication mechanism, but we could also use the exact same thing. 140 00:09:50.429 --> 00:09:52.220 So easy to create an email to do something, you know, silly, 141 00:09:52.340 --> 00:09:56.299 small tasks like, you know, hey, yes, thank you, right, 142 00:09:56.659 --> 00:09:58.379 thank you. Will is of one of the most common emails that is 143 00:09:58.460 --> 00:10:03.779 out there or acknowledge, right, and that's not what memoranda was for. 144 00:10:03.500 --> 00:10:09.570 So email kind of is distorted just in its roots. It's wasn't built for 145 00:10:09.769 --> 00:10:13.210 how people are using things today and it's been there for very easy for it 146 00:10:13.330 --> 00:10:18.450 to get corrupted in the way that you described. Now the calendar, unfortunately, 147 00:10:18.490 --> 00:10:20.559 is not that much better. The one thing that the calendar has that's 148 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:26.440 that's unique, is that it is it. It contains time that you plan 149 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:30.720 to spend right you know, email doesn't have the emails you are going to 150 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:33.360 write. It has the emails that you are writing and all the emails that 151 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.549 you wrote or other people sent to you, but it doesn't have your future 152 00:10:37.590 --> 00:10:41.029 in it. Your calendar does have a bit of the future in it, 153 00:10:41.389 --> 00:10:43.909 but people don't take advantage of that. You know, we we have a 154 00:10:45.070 --> 00:10:48.990 lot of events in willing. We've got over eighty million events in the system 155 00:10:48.549 --> 00:10:54.860 and one of the really interesting characteristics of these events is that over fifty percent 156 00:10:54.899 --> 00:11:00.980 of them were created within three days of the event actually happening. Over seventy 157 00:11:01.100 --> 00:11:05.409 percent we're created within seven days of the event happening. So that means that, 158 00:11:05.529 --> 00:11:09.409 you know, for the most part people don't use their calendar to think 159 00:11:09.610 --> 00:11:11.649 ahead, but you can, and this is one of the things that we're 160 00:11:11.649 --> 00:11:16.289 trying to change, is if you think about the ten counters are planning to 161 00:11:16.409 --> 00:11:20.440 a how are you planning to spend your time? It can help identify the 162 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:26.080 conflicts or the issues that you that create tradeoffs that require choice before you even 163 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:28.840 get started on the task. I do. I even have the time to 164 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:33.309 volunteer at my kids school. Like what would I have to trade off to 165 00:11:33.429 --> 00:11:37.309 do that? When I put that into my calendar I can see what that 166 00:11:37.429 --> 00:11:41.070 tradeoff is and then I can make that choice. Maybe I do want to 167 00:11:41.110 --> 00:11:43.629 do that, maybe I don't want to do that. Just don't like good 168 00:11:43.629 --> 00:11:45.950 or bad to that, but the fact that I made the choice means that 169 00:11:45.990 --> 00:11:48.299 I'm being delivered about it. Here's another fact to it about the calendar, 170 00:11:48.299 --> 00:11:52.139 which gets back to your point on we know over sixty percent of all events 171 00:11:52.179 --> 00:11:56.019 are are that are on our calendars were created by other people. So that 172 00:11:56.179 --> 00:12:03.730 means that we are allocating huge swaths of time to the request of others, 173 00:12:03.289 --> 00:12:05.929 and so one of the things that we're trying to change at woven. The 174 00:12:05.970 --> 00:12:09.289 mission of the company is we want to help people spend time on what matters 175 00:12:09.330 --> 00:12:13.450 most of them. That starts with them taking control of their time, being 176 00:12:13.570 --> 00:12:18.600 in more in command of their time being able to, you know, being 177 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.240 the ones that are making the choice of whether or not they're going to spend 178 00:12:22.279 --> 00:12:26.919 time on one task or the other. Man that stat is is really enlightening 179 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:28.639 and it goes back to that that point about, you know, one of 180 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:33.710 the most important decisions that we make is how we spend our time, because 181 00:12:33.750 --> 00:12:37.990 we all have an even playing field there. So one of the things I 182 00:12:37.070 --> 00:12:39.750 want to get into you, it's tip, is, you know, how 183 00:12:39.909 --> 00:12:46.860 you were able to lead a charge that ended up doubling employee productivity at facebook 184 00:12:46.899 --> 00:12:50.139 and get into some of the strategies and tactics that that you uncovered and helped 185 00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:54.659 execute their give us a little bit of backstory. How did that come to 186 00:12:54.740 --> 00:12:58.019 be? How did you end up, you know, being charged with improving 187 00:12:58.179 --> 00:13:01.730 employee productivity at facebook? Well, this is my first question. When I 188 00:13:01.769 --> 00:13:05.809 was being interviewed by Mark Zuckerberg, my first question to him was what do 189 00:13:05.850 --> 00:13:09.690 you expect that of this role? What's My job? It's one of the 190 00:13:09.730 --> 00:13:11.610 things I learned, having been a cio at other companies and knowing a lot 191 00:13:11.610 --> 00:13:16.080 of other cios at one of the problems that people that companies have with their 192 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:18.639 technology departments, if they don't really know what they want them to do. 193 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:20.159 They know what they don't want them to do. They don't want them to 194 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:24.080 screw up, they don't want the like data to get laws, they don't 195 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:26.870 want security breaches, but they generally don't know what they want them to do 196 00:13:28.149 --> 00:13:31.710 and the best company to do. Zuck was very clear about this, you 197 00:13:31.750 --> 00:13:35.269 know, he didn't spend a bunch of time thinking about it, he didn't 198 00:13:35.309 --> 00:13:39.110 model around, he immediately got to the answer, which is I care about 199 00:13:39.110 --> 00:13:46.620 the productivity of the company, about particularly engineers, but really every single role 200 00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:48.980 in the company. I want people to, you know, be able to 201 00:13:50.059 --> 00:13:52.539 get as much done as they can with the least amount of effort, and 202 00:13:52.659 --> 00:13:56.850 that's what I'm expecting out at this so that's what basically gave me the charter. 203 00:13:56.970 --> 00:14:01.049 I took that to heart. This is something that I champion all throughout 204 00:14:01.090 --> 00:14:05.970 my tenure at facebook, almost seven years now. The second thing that in 205 00:14:07.529 --> 00:14:09.519 terms of like well, how do you measure this? Right, let because 206 00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:13.919 you can't improve things you don't measure and there's a ton of different ways to 207 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:18.840 measure productivity. We when we talk about doubling productivity, a sense of what 208 00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:24.000 we're talking about. There is revenue per employee. Now there's other measures where 209 00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.629 we did probably far better profit for employee, but the things that are actually 210 00:14:26.750 --> 00:14:31.590 most actionable as when you start breaking down the job function. You know, 211 00:14:31.629 --> 00:14:35.389 let's say I am a recruiter, right, so how many hires can I 212 00:14:35.549 --> 00:14:39.179 recruit in a given year? Right? Or sourcers? You know, how 213 00:14:39.220 --> 00:14:45.179 many candidates can I identify in given week? These are more actionable productivity measures 214 00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:48.899 because they break down to what. You know, what, what's the actual 215 00:14:48.940 --> 00:14:52.059 job? And so for most people in they're starting to think about their own 216 00:14:52.059 --> 00:14:54.169 productivity, if they can break their job down into the major task. What 217 00:14:54.289 --> 00:14:58.009 is it that defines who I am and what I do, and what is 218 00:14:58.169 --> 00:15:01.049 what's the measure there, then you can start thinking about, okay, well, 219 00:15:01.090 --> 00:15:03.210 where the long poles of your where is where the parts that take the 220 00:15:03.330 --> 00:15:07.720 most time? And you want to look for those things that have a lot 221 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:11.039 of repetitive activity. That's the automation opportunity. And this is basically what we 222 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:16.480 did over and over and over again, and facebook. Initially we did this 223 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:20.039 by, you know, hey, let's just use traditional software, but we 224 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:22.429 got to the point where we were so good that the only way to make 225 00:15:22.509 --> 00:15:26.149 the company even more productive, which to start building us up for ourselves. 226 00:15:26.549 --> 00:15:31.190 And so that's basically what my organization became. Full on engineering product organization, 227 00:15:31.629 --> 00:15:37.419 but we were building next generation workforce products to help the company become works productive 228 00:15:37.820 --> 00:15:41.860 on everything from how do we talk to customers to how do we book meetings, 229 00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:45.779 to how do we repair the equipment in the data centers, like we 230 00:15:45.980 --> 00:15:50.490 just built tons and tons of ournation. Hey, everybody, logan with sweet 231 00:15:50.490 --> 00:15:54.169 fish here. If you've been listening to the show for a while, you 232 00:15:54.330 --> 00:15:58.809 know we're big proponents of putting out original, organic content on Linke did. 233 00:15:58.210 --> 00:16:02.649 But one thing that's always been a struggle for a team like ours is to 234 00:16:02.769 --> 00:16:07.000 easily track the reach of that linkedin content. That's why I was really excited 235 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:10.600 when I heard about shield the other day from a connection on you guessed it 236 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:14.840 linked in. Since our team started using shield, I've loved how it's let 237 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:19.149 us easily track and analyze is the performance of our linkedin content without having to 238 00:16:19.309 --> 00:16:25.549 manually log it ourselves. It automatically creates reports and generates some dashboards that are 239 00:16:25.590 --> 00:16:30.070 incredibly useful to see things like what content has been performing the best and what 240 00:16:30.149 --> 00:16:33.500 days of the week are we getting the most engagement and our average views proposed. 241 00:16:33.860 --> 00:16:37.340 I'd highly suggest you guys check out this tool if you're putting out content 242 00:16:37.539 --> 00:16:41.460 on Linkedin, and if you're not, you should be. It's been a 243 00:16:41.500 --> 00:16:45.940 game changer for us. If you go to shield APP DOT AI and check 244 00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:48.529 out the ten day free trial, you can even use our promo code be 245 00:16:48.730 --> 00:16:52.850 to be growth to get a twenty five percent discount. Again, that's shield 246 00:16:52.889 --> 00:16:59.370 APP DOT AI and that Promo Code is be the number to be growth. 247 00:16:59.649 --> 00:17:06.839 All one word. All right, let's get back to the show. Yeah, 248 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:10.799 I love those first two that you mentioned, because I think that's appable 249 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:12.480 whether you know, as you said, you're a recruiter and engineer, a 250 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:18.549 salesperson, a marketer. Also really great advice for not only see Ios, 251 00:17:18.589 --> 00:17:21.269 but I think that applies to marketing and sales leaders, is, you know, 252 00:17:21.630 --> 00:17:25.309 they come in and asking the CEO or whoever they're reporting to what a 253 00:17:25.430 --> 00:17:29.750 success look like here right, because if there aren't level expectations, than how 254 00:17:29.789 --> 00:17:32.779 are you going to meet those? And that translates into what you're talking about 255 00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:36.019 in productivity, because what I heard you say there, tim is you know 256 00:17:36.099 --> 00:17:40.099 whether you have how many employees were at facebook at this time. When I 257 00:17:40.180 --> 00:17:42.339 started it was pretty small, about fourteen hundred people. Okay. Well, 258 00:17:42.420 --> 00:17:45.890 I mean in case some point there, whether you have fourteen people, one 259 00:17:45.890 --> 00:17:49.009 one, fourteen hundred or your fourteen thousand, you know, these two actional 260 00:17:49.049 --> 00:17:53.210 pieces that you just mentioned, figure out how you want to measure productivity and 261 00:17:53.289 --> 00:17:56.769 that might change a little bit over time and, as you mentioned, there 262 00:17:56.769 --> 00:17:59.400 might be a couple different ways to to slice it. But start with something 263 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:03.680 and then to start to look for areas of slack, start to look for 264 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:07.680 areas of potential automation. Once you've kind of started down that road, or 265 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:12.349 there's some other tactical things that you employed at facebook that other leaders could look 266 00:18:12.349 --> 00:18:17.190 at within their organization, either know how to look at the slack or how 267 00:18:17.269 --> 00:18:21.309 to determine when to automate when not to those sorts of things. Yeah, 268 00:18:21.309 --> 00:18:25.109 I mean the I think they when to automate and where to automate is probably 269 00:18:25.150 --> 00:18:29.980 one of the trickiest part of technology leader's job kind of starts with like figuring 270 00:18:30.019 --> 00:18:34.299 out what you can actually automate. And you know, so a lot of 271 00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:38.460 business functions, when you talking about like marketing, our sales involve human interaction 272 00:18:38.579 --> 00:18:44.329 with people. These are not very good things to automate, right because, 273 00:18:44.529 --> 00:18:48.329 unless you don't care about the relationship that you know, business practices where your 274 00:18:48.930 --> 00:18:53.250 success is your is defined by your ability to influence somebody else, you know, 275 00:18:53.490 --> 00:18:56.559 requires you to build up and maintain relationship with them, and that stuff 276 00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:00.960 takes time, and time with people is actually a good thing. So I'll 277 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:03.119 give you a practical example, which a lot of companies have been screwing up 278 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:08.200 on, is support, customer service. You know, it sucks when your 279 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:14.190 customers have problems with your product, but every time you have an opportunity to 280 00:19:14.230 --> 00:19:17.549 touch them and talk to them, it's an opportunity to build a better relationship 281 00:19:17.549 --> 00:19:18.789 with them, and at will. Then, you know, I can guarantee 282 00:19:18.910 --> 00:19:23.109 our products has not been perfect, but the opportunities to talk to our users 283 00:19:23.420 --> 00:19:26.940 has been invaluable, not just for us but also for them. You know, 284 00:19:27.019 --> 00:19:30.660 they start to feel more ownership on the success of the product that they're 285 00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:36.940 helping us, and so that's not a good place to like introduce a bod 286 00:19:37.099 --> 00:19:41.049 or some kind of AI thing to streamline the support process. On the other 287 00:19:41.170 --> 00:19:45.970 hand, we can't be answering supporting emails twenty four hours a day. So 288 00:19:47.009 --> 00:19:49.450 if you can at least tell people right away that hey, we're not here, 289 00:19:51.130 --> 00:19:52.799 but you know, we'll get back to you right away, or if 290 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:56.680 you want, to press this button and will escalate the issue to us and 291 00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:00.559 we will try to deal with your issue immediately. That's a good area of 292 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:06.319 automation because the alternative is, you know, a frustrated user. So these 293 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:11.069 are tricky things that take time to to sort of understand. Another thing is 294 00:20:11.150 --> 00:20:14.829 that, you know, technology is evolving quite a bit. There's a lot 295 00:20:14.910 --> 00:20:19.029 of different ways that you can use technology now to automated process. That wasn't 296 00:20:19.029 --> 00:20:23.420 possible before. In the past you'd have to write software, you'd have to 297 00:20:23.500 --> 00:20:26.500 code in order to do and so that basically cut out a lot of different 298 00:20:26.500 --> 00:20:30.380 business functions. You know, if I'm a salesperson, I'm not a selfware 299 00:20:30.380 --> 00:20:33.619 engineer. If I was a selfware engineer, I would have gone into supfare 300 00:20:33.619 --> 00:20:36.690 engineering and our sales. So I don't want to spend a bunch of time, 301 00:20:36.849 --> 00:20:40.049 you know, learning all this cryptic language or automate my job. But 302 00:20:40.130 --> 00:20:45.089 in today's they you've got things like Zapier, you you know, the rules 303 00:20:45.170 --> 00:20:48.250 that you can ride or tools like woven which make it really easy to start 304 00:20:48.970 --> 00:20:55.359 customizing an automating different parts of your job, and so there's just a lot 305 00:20:55.480 --> 00:21:00.359 more opportunity to use technology. I think the third thing that's an interesting, 306 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:06.349 you know, Opportunity here is not to forget the automation when it comes to 307 00:21:06.509 --> 00:21:10.710 decision making. Right and the most valuable thing here is like, what information 308 00:21:10.829 --> 00:21:15.109 do you need to make a decision and how do you get that data to 309 00:21:15.509 --> 00:21:19.740 you when you need it? A great examples for sales people. Which customers 310 00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:22.380 should I call first, because most people have a book of business. They 311 00:21:22.420 --> 00:21:26.220 got like ten or fifteen customers, sometimes hundreds of them. But if you 312 00:21:26.299 --> 00:21:30.420 have good data to say you know what this customer wants to hear from you 313 00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:34.529 right now, certainly more important than this other one that you that you know 314 00:21:34.609 --> 00:21:38.650 maybe if you call them is not going to lead too much, that can 315 00:21:38.769 --> 00:21:44.210 help save huge amounts of time, and so this was one of the areas 316 00:21:44.250 --> 00:21:47.089 that we spend a lot of time on within facebook is what data do we 317 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:51.519 have that will help people within the company make better decisions, whether that's for 318 00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:53.680 sales, which customers should they talk to, or for recruiters, which candidate 319 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:57.359 should they talk to? You which candidates are most likely to be successful when 320 00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:00.430 we put them through something like a phone screen or a test, and we 321 00:22:00.470 --> 00:22:03.630 could use dated to help them with some of those decisions. Yeah, I 322 00:22:03.869 --> 00:22:07.230 love that point about decision making, because not only does it save time, 323 00:22:07.349 --> 00:22:11.710 but there's also a psychological benefit. Right. I've I've heard people talk about 324 00:22:11.829 --> 00:22:15.980 decision fatigue and actually, you know, quote or not quote, but point 325 00:22:17.059 --> 00:22:19.779 to mark Zuckerberg as an example of this. The reason that he always wears, 326 00:22:19.980 --> 00:22:22.299 you know, the same color shirt, because that's not a decision that 327 00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:26.220 should need to take up mental space when you're running such a large company. 328 00:22:26.259 --> 00:22:30.369 Right, that's right, that's right. Now. I mean, he's very 329 00:22:30.569 --> 00:22:34.329 deliberate about the decisions that he wants to make. The clothing example is a 330 00:22:34.450 --> 00:22:41.009 great one, but I'm even more scalable example of this is how he chooses 331 00:22:41.210 --> 00:22:45.279 what his job will be versus the job of others. And you know, 332 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:48.519 he's not the kind of leader to say, okay, I know everything about 333 00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:52.759 everything, so when the marketing person comes in, I'm going to spend half 334 00:22:52.839 --> 00:22:56.079 my time telling them how to run their job. Quite the opposite. He's 335 00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:57.710 like, look, I'm an engineer in a product eye. Those are the 336 00:22:57.750 --> 00:23:02.109 things that I'm going to spend all my time on. I'm not a salesperson, 337 00:23:02.230 --> 00:23:04.470 I am not a marketing person. I'm going to find the best candidate 338 00:23:04.630 --> 00:23:08.869 I can to go run that, hire somebody like a Sheryl Sandberg, and 339 00:23:08.910 --> 00:23:14.180 I'm going to let them do their job and the conversation with them isn't going 340 00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:15.660 to be about me telling them what to do. It's going to be about 341 00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:18.900 them telling me what I know what they need from me, and if they 342 00:23:18.940 --> 00:23:22.539 don't need anything from me, awesome. Let's just, you know, touch 343 00:23:22.619 --> 00:23:25.380 base every once in a while on how things are going, but I'll stay 344 00:23:25.460 --> 00:23:29.809 focused on the things that I need to and that is a much more scalable 345 00:23:29.809 --> 00:23:33.569 leadership practice than, you know, the typical sort of leadership style that a 346 00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:37.009 lot of people employ, where they feel, like, you know, leadership 347 00:23:37.170 --> 00:23:40.369 is this position of respect and they have to, like, you know, 348 00:23:40.490 --> 00:23:42.880 protect that and therefore they got to be the smartest person in the room and 349 00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:47.839 they got to tell everybody else what to do and really not what it's about. 350 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:49.920 People see through that all the time. One of the things that I 351 00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:56.230 love that Craig groshell always says on his leadership podcast is people would rather follow 352 00:23:56.349 --> 00:23:59.670 a leader who's always real than one who's always right. And I've been in 353 00:23:59.789 --> 00:24:03.990 different sorts of working environments with different sorts of leaders, the ones that felt 354 00:24:03.029 --> 00:24:07.029 like they had to protect that, either from an ego perspective or our self 355 00:24:07.109 --> 00:24:12.259 preservation perspective, because they thought that I'm going to lose respect if I utter 356 00:24:12.380 --> 00:24:17.380 the words I don't know or if I look like someone you know underneath me 357 00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:21.900 in the pecking order bring something to the table. But I've respected and seen 358 00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:27.250 the most productive leaders ask good questions of the subject matter experts on their team 359 00:24:27.650 --> 00:24:32.130 for what they think and what their experience has been and what they think they 360 00:24:32.170 --> 00:24:36.569 should do it going forward, whether that's a product leader, a marketing leader, 361 00:24:36.769 --> 00:24:38.200 you know, whatever the case might be. Tim As we kind of 362 00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:44.839 round out the conversation here today, anything else on kind of tactical things from 363 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:49.160 your time at facebook or just everything as you've delved into the world of productivity? 364 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:52.869 Know, I think about you. Know I hear recommendations from folks about, 365 00:24:52.869 --> 00:24:56.190 you know, blocking your time. You make some good points about you 366 00:24:56.269 --> 00:24:59.470 know, if you say you're going to do it, put it on your 367 00:24:59.509 --> 00:25:03.309 calendar ahead of time. And those stats about how often stuff is on our 368 00:25:03.349 --> 00:25:07.940 calendar from other people and the last minute. I think speak to some pretty 369 00:25:07.220 --> 00:25:12.140 big areas of opportunit to today some lowhanging fruit. Any other lowhanging fruit for 370 00:25:12.259 --> 00:25:15.700 folks is they look to? How can I, you know, double my 371 00:25:15.819 --> 00:25:19.339 productivity or even just make it five percent better? Let's talk about the Gundar, 372 00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:23.049 because I actually think this is one of the most powerful areas of opportunity 373 00:25:23.089 --> 00:25:27.769 for people is, as I said before, taking more deliberate control over how 374 00:25:27.890 --> 00:25:33.569 you plan and allocate your time. And so time blocking, as we discussed 375 00:25:33.609 --> 00:25:37.480 before, is a great mechanism to ensure things get done, whether that's time 376 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:41.839 blocking for an activity you're doing with others, that's a meeting, or time 377 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:45.240 walking for yourself, that you know when you reserve time to work on that 378 00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:51.269 presentation, you're going to be in a much better position to get it done 379 00:25:51.430 --> 00:25:53.109 then if you just say, okay, I'll do it when I'm free, 380 00:25:53.430 --> 00:25:57.230 especially if you are in a leadership position or a role where there's a lot 381 00:25:57.309 --> 00:26:02.750 of other people who have demands of your time. The second thing, that 382 00:26:02.789 --> 00:26:07.380 another thing is really interesting to understand. You know the we all have kind 383 00:26:07.420 --> 00:26:12.299 of a normative meeting load and a meeting schedule. So you know, you 384 00:26:12.380 --> 00:26:15.940 know, for me at facebook it was probably about thirty hours a week of 385 00:26:17.059 --> 00:26:21.170 meetings. Is I tip that I typically had in my current roles a little 386 00:26:21.170 --> 00:26:23.490 bit less, but it's about twenty five hours of meetings now when I look 387 00:26:23.529 --> 00:26:27.569 out into the future, because I don't always know what those things are going 388 00:26:27.609 --> 00:26:32.009 to be right. So, you know, three weeks from now I don't 389 00:26:32.009 --> 00:26:34.880 have three hours of meeting scheduled on my calendar, but I'm going to. 390 00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:38.960 I just don't know what they are yet. And and when you understand this, 391 00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:44.720 then it helps you to think differently about giving away that time, because 392 00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.390 often you know what ends up happening when people are trying to schedule time with 393 00:26:48.509 --> 00:26:51.910 each other something. You know, if you just push it far and off 394 00:26:52.029 --> 00:26:55.470 in the future, the answer is always yes, sure, I'm totally free 395 00:26:55.670 --> 00:26:57.750 two months from now, but that doesn't mean that you should take the event 396 00:26:57.789 --> 00:27:03.099 right. You know, if you're doing what I like to call portfolio management 397 00:27:03.180 --> 00:27:06.180 of your times, you're saying, I want to spend ten percent of my 398 00:27:06.339 --> 00:27:08.819 time on one on one's of my team. I want to spend thirty percent 399 00:27:08.819 --> 00:27:12.220 of my time with customers. So I want to spend have forty percent of 400 00:27:12.259 --> 00:27:17.529 my time in deep work. You got to kind of build your calendar that 401 00:27:17.730 --> 00:27:21.289 way so that it looks like that even ahead of time, to remind you 402 00:27:21.410 --> 00:27:25.250 when you're making these decisions. Do I really want to take this meeting during 403 00:27:25.329 --> 00:27:26.849 this this period, even though it's far out in the future, and I 404 00:27:26.970 --> 00:27:30.440 look for you. That's probably one of the hardest things and one of the 405 00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:34.839 things we're trying to really enable with woven through analytics and templates and the ability 406 00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:38.160 for people to mark up and describe their time more effectively so they can do 407 00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:44.119 a better job of allocating in the future well. And then one last thing, 408 00:27:44.630 --> 00:27:48.069 which I'll add, is the calendar. This is one of the biggest 409 00:27:48.069 --> 00:27:52.710 differentiators for woven is were making the counter more of an active tool. Today 410 00:27:52.710 --> 00:27:56.230 it is a passive tool, like you decide to schedule by doing work over 411 00:27:56.309 --> 00:28:00.259 email or text messaging and then you put the counter event on the calendar and 412 00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:04.740 then later on, you know somebody will send the document out that's relevant for 413 00:28:04.819 --> 00:28:07.940 that meeting via email. Right. So here's the agenda for the meeting or 414 00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.619 here's the interview, the resume for the candidate. The problem with all that 415 00:28:11.779 --> 00:28:15.369 is it your information just gets dispersed all over the place. You end up 416 00:28:15.410 --> 00:28:19.849 spending a huge amount of time, particular if you're busy just on the context, 417 00:28:19.970 --> 00:28:23.049 which I'm going into this event. What are we doing here? What's 418 00:28:23.049 --> 00:28:27.240 our purpose? Was Our reason to be? And so we're making the counter 419 00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:32.880 more of an active thing. Not only is it easier for woven events to 420 00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:36.519 get scheduled because they understand the difference between, like a dinner time meeting and 421 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:41.990 a lunch meeting, but they can be they can include information like here's the 422 00:28:42.029 --> 00:28:48.150 agenda for our event, or here is the the action items from the that 423 00:28:48.269 --> 00:28:52.750 we want to discuss, and that type of using the calendar that way, 424 00:28:53.789 --> 00:29:00.740 we find is provides an enormous productivity benefit people. For people because the actions 425 00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:06.019 are tied to the allocation of time, the things that they need to do, 426 00:29:06.259 --> 00:29:08.059 the things that they need to discuss, the decisions that they need to 427 00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:12.049 make are nowt tied to that allocation of time. And if they reallocate the 428 00:29:12.130 --> 00:29:15.690 time, they move this meet or they move the time that they're going to 429 00:29:15.730 --> 00:29:21.049 do that presentation, all that information moves along with it so that it's there 430 00:29:21.170 --> 00:29:23.880 at the time that is necessary. Man, that is so good for anybody 431 00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:27.640 listening to this, you might have to hit the sixty two back a couple 432 00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:30.920 times to start from, you know, the top of those three recommendations that 433 00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:34.839 Tim just drop, but man, I identified with all of those really well. 434 00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:38.470 Time wocking for yourself. I've started to do that. I've got some 435 00:29:38.589 --> 00:29:42.349 stuff after this interview that I have blocked because I knew that if it kept 436 00:29:42.349 --> 00:29:45.630 getting pushed right in my coworker kept asking me, Hey, when you're going 437 00:29:45.630 --> 00:29:48.150 to get that done? I'm like, okay, I give him a deadline 438 00:29:48.430 --> 00:29:52.670 of when I'm going to get it done and I put it on the calendar. 439 00:29:52.710 --> 00:29:55.779 So now I have that forcing function, just like I've got to show 440 00:29:55.779 --> 00:29:57.660 up to do this interview with you, right, and we need to do 441 00:29:57.740 --> 00:30:00.539 more of that. The second one, I really love this idea of portfolio 442 00:30:00.619 --> 00:30:07.769 management and looking at percentage of time for different buckets that you want to allocate 443 00:30:07.849 --> 00:30:10.650 your time right, like if you're in sales, how much time has been 444 00:30:10.730 --> 00:30:15.009 actively talking to customers and how much time is spent doing administrative work? How 445 00:30:15.049 --> 00:30:18.769 much time is spent with current customers though, those sorts of different things, 446 00:30:18.289 --> 00:30:22.160 because you're exactly right. If someone I have a hard time saying no anyway. 447 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:25.519 But if someone asked, Hey, can we get fifteen minutes on the 448 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:27.200 counter two months from now, most of us are going to say yes. 449 00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:30.720 But that contributes to it. And when you change the thinking of I have 450 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:34.750 ten percent of my time to dedicate to this type of thing and this is 451 00:30:34.950 --> 00:30:37.589 going to eat into it. Even though it's two months from now, do 452 00:30:37.710 --> 00:30:41.269 I still want to do that? You know, and what you talked about 453 00:30:41.269 --> 00:30:45.230 there and context switching as part of a remote team to where my calendar is 454 00:30:45.349 --> 00:30:48.509 now much more back to back to back to back then when I was in 455 00:30:48.630 --> 00:30:52.140 a regional sales roll and it was okay. There's drive time and things that 456 00:30:52.339 --> 00:30:56.220 context switching is is a huge thing. So this has been a really fun 457 00:30:56.299 --> 00:31:00.339 conversation Tim it's given me some ideas and think about how I manage my own 458 00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:03.700 time going into the new year. I imagine there are going to be a 459 00:31:03.740 --> 00:31:07.569 lot of people listening to this who want to ask you some follow up questions 460 00:31:07.609 --> 00:31:11.410 or go deeper on this topic, maybe follow some content you're putting out on 461 00:31:11.690 --> 00:31:14.170 on this topic as well. What's the best way for them to reach out 462 00:31:14.450 --> 00:31:18.490 or stay connected with you or learn more about woven if they're looking at something 463 00:31:18.569 --> 00:31:21.559 like that for their team right now. Yeah, so to learn more about 464 00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:23.440 the company, as more easy to find, you just search for a woven, 465 00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:29.279 whether that's on Google, the apple, Mac windows APP stores, or 466 00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:33.069 you can just go to womncom. But I love the discussion, so I'm 467 00:31:33.390 --> 00:31:37.190 easy to find on twitter. My twitter handle is tea campos and send me 468 00:31:37.230 --> 00:31:40.029 a note, drop me a message, shop in line time. What you 469 00:31:40.109 --> 00:31:42.190 think? Awesome. Thanks so much to him. I really appreciate you being 470 00:31:42.230 --> 00:31:45.750 a guest on the show. I think this was really timely as folks are 471 00:31:45.829 --> 00:31:49.220 looking out how to improve in a very key area. As you put it, 472 00:31:49.380 --> 00:31:53.420 the big differentiator that we have is the decisions we make about our time, 473 00:31:53.539 --> 00:31:57.019 and you made some some really compelling cases on how we can take more 474 00:31:57.180 --> 00:32:00.900 control of that right. So thank you so much for being a guest on 475 00:32:00.940 --> 00:32:02.450 the show today. Yeah, thanks for having US something really fun. I 476 00:32:02.529 --> 00:32:07.849 really enjoyed your questions. We totally get it. We publish a ton of 477 00:32:08.130 --> 00:32:12.170 content on this podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. 478 00:32:12.730 --> 00:32:16.160 That's why we've started the BOB growth big three, a no fluff email that 479 00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:22.200 boils down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up 480 00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:29.400 today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three