Transcript
WEBVTT
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Looking for a guaranteed way to create
content that resonates with your audience? Start
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a podcast, interview your ideal clients
and let them choose the topic of the
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interview, because if your ideal clients
care about the topic, there's a good
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chance the rest of your audience will
care about it too. Learn more at
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Sweet Fish Mediacom you're listening to beb
growth, a daily podcast for BB leaders.
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00:00:35.299 --> 00:00:38.810
We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vander truck and Simon
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00:00:38.890 --> 00:00:43.210
Senek, but you've probably never heard
from the majority of our guests. That's
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00:00:43.250 --> 00:00:47.890
because the bulk of our interviews aren't
with professional speakers and authors. Most of
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our guests are in the trenches leading
sales and marketing teams. They're implementing strategy,
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they're experimenting with tactics, they're building
the fastest growing BTB companies in the
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world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet fish media,
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a podcast agency for BB brands,
and I'm also one of the cohosts
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of the show. When we're not
interviewing sales and marketing leaders, you'll hear
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stories from behind the scenes of our
own business. Will share the ups and
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downs of our journey as we attempt
to take over the world. Just getting
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well, maybe let's get into the
show. Before we get into today's episode,
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we wanted to let you know about
another podcast you may want to check
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out, the sales podcast with West
Shaffer. West, who's known as the
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sales whisper, helps salespeople everywhere generate
more in bound sales that close faster,
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easier, at higher margins, with
less dress and more fun. Our favorite
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episode on his show is titled Why
you need to build for the next procession.
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Check it out and find the sales
podcast wherever you do your podcast listening.
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All right, let's get into the
show. Welcome back to be tob
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growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet
fish media. Today I'm joined by Kyle
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Coleman. He is the VP of
revenue growth and enablement over at clary.
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Kyle. How's it going to Amen, I am living the dream. Thank
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you for having me, Logan.
Yeah, absolutely, Man. Your content
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has been on fire on Linkedin.
James and I both commenting on stuff that
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you've been putting out and commenting on
lately and we thought, man, we've
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got to get kyle on the show. So thank you so much for joining
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us. Man, we're going to
be talking about scaling personalization. How can
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how can you do that effectively?
How can you avoid, you know,
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going beyond that point of diminishing return
with personalization and do it efficiently? Before
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we do that, man, let's
set the table a little bit. Share
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with folks a little bit about yourself
and what you and the Clary teamer up
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to these days. Sure. Yeah, so I started my career in bb
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tech about seven or eight years ago
at a company called looker based in Santa
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Cruz. I was the sixth employee
at looker. was there for about six
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years and till the company grew to
about eight hundred employees and then was acquired
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by Google in the summer of two
thousand and nineteen. I then jumped over
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to Clary to lead sales development and
sales enablement in April of two thousand and
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nineteen and as the year progressed,
the company grew and there was a little
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bit more room for growth, I
ended up taking on a few more departments
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on the demand marketing and field marketing
side. So I now lead our newly
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formed growth department, which is a
combination of demand generation, field marketing as
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well as sales development and sales enablement. Awesome and I love to hear that
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about your journey. Yet we I've
known a couple of people who have been
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on that that looker ride that that
you were on there. I think there's
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probably something as well in the way
that you guys are organizing your go to
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market team. They're at clary the
way you describe the building of the growth
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team, but we'll have to will
have to revisit that another time. I
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want to dive straight into personalization,
man, as we're talking about it today.
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I think this first point about outreach
fatigue is something that a lot of
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our listeners can understand. But let's
just for a minute, man, tell
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us a little bit about your thinking
about why this is such an important topic
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for sales and marketing professionals right now. Yeah, it's really interesting, Wigan,
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because what it has happened over the
years is just as marketing automation tools
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like Marquetto and eloqua became sort of
the table stakes for marketing teams, the
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same has happened with sales automation and
sales acceleration tools like outreach and sales loft,
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and what that means unfortunately, is
that a lot of sales people have
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become kind of lazy when it comes
to their outreach, where they just rely
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on these prescribed and pre written and
templatized email touches, and linked in touches
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for that matter, that just completely
inundate their prospects in boxes without any real
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semblance of rationale or intent or personalization
in the message. So these messages just
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pile up and pile up in prospects
in boxes and therefore prospects are more predisposed
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to ignoring everything that engaging with anything. And that is the major problem we
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face now. Yep, absolutely,
and so when you're trying to reach to
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even more fatigued buyers than you've got
an uphill battle the climb. I mean,
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I can just you know, you
can't see me on video right now,
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but I'm waving my hand at and
my email inbox and my linkedin messages
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and connection request full of stuff like
that lately, just from this past week,
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from Monday to now, and part
of it hits on what you talked
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about. It doesn't have any rationale, even if it doesn't have personalization.
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At least if it's rational then I
might give it at least a three second
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clans instead of one, but right
there's just no rationale for it. That
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is what kind of irritates me and
just makes me feel sad for the wasted
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time and waste in dollars for revenue
teams that are trying to go to market
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that way. So we're going to
be talking about some specific ways. You
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did a Linkedin Post that broke down
some very specific how to's on Scaling personalization.
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Will get to that in just a
second. Let's talk a little bit
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about the first stage that you recommend
for sales development and other folks who are
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crafting these outreach messages. Let's talk
about tying your research and the importance of
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research and tying that to your value
prop and then we'll get into some of
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the tactics on how to personalize its
skill. Yeah, absolutely. There's sort
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of a misconception, I think,
as it relates to research, where some
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people think that they need to know
every single thing about a person or about
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a company in order to craft and
effective message to that person, and that's
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just not true. You alluded to
it at the top of the intro here,
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where there are diminishing returns as it
relates to the time spent doing research.
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So what I try and preach with
the team is spend about five minutes
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doing the research and about five minutes
crafting the email. And if you can
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send an email and it takes time, of course it's way easier said than
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them. But if you're can abide
by that five and five rule, you're
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going to be in really good shape
and you'll realize the right things to personalize
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and the right things to templatize.
So when you're doing your research, there
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are a few different categories that I
think are really important to try and look
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for as you're trying to figure out
how to craft this message. There's research
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on the company, there's research on
the industry or the persona that you're reaching
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out to, and then there's actual
personal research that you're doing about that person.
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Like, for example, the personal
research. If you're going to do
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research on me, go to my
linkedin page. Use can see everything that
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I'm about, from the things I
care about in the office and at work
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to things in my personal life.
Like I put on my linkedin profile that
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I'm a cordy owner just to see
how much corby swag people will send me.
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But it's that kind of thing that
you'd be amazed at how open people
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are about their personal interests and how
easy it is, and we'll get to
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the segue portion, Eis that later, but how easy it is to Segue
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from that personal research into the value
prop for for your company. So those
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other two categories, the company research. Who are they hiring? What are
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the what of their growth trends look
like over the last three or six,
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twelve months? What kind of press
releases have you seen that their executives are
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quoted in? What can you glean
from their mission statement of companies, mission
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statement, things like that that just
show the prospect that you've taken the time
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to understand their company a little bit
better. And then the same is true
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with industry or persona based research.
What are their competitors doing? You know,
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surface up some sort of competitive insight
that maybe they don't know about?
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What kind of trends are they facing
in the industry? What kind of statistics
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can you bring to the for that
will be relevant to their persona? It's
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those sorts of things that really catch
my eye and and show me that the
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person reaching out to me really does
care not just about me and my company,
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but about solving problems that I have. Yeah, absolutely, and you.
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I love the way that you break
down the three types of personalization based
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on company or types of research that
lead to types of personalization. I Guess
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Company, Industry and Persona, and
then personal I mean you should definitely you
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know the industry and the persona.
Some of that, hopefully, is already
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done by the time that you see
some of your templates and your go to
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market messaging, but invest more time. They're become an expert because it's only
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going to pay dividends because that is
repeatable. It's not as custom as to
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each and every person, but the
more that you can show that you have
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your finger on the pulse and you
actually understand things that are going on with
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your buyer, persona and in their
industry. You bring up some really good
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points there to kyle talking about who
are they hiring? Look at look at
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their jobs postings. What are their
growth trends? I mean that's so easy
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to look at with linkedin sales navigator
on headcount, you know, and revenue,
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or look at tools like crunch base
as well PR statements, mission statement.
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I get a little bit if he
on because James and I talked about
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this the other day talking on the
show about how we crafted our mission statement
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and how we feel that. You
know, a lot of companies they don't
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do a very good job of actually, you know, pushing that out into
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the culture. So to me sometimes
that might lead to something like Oh yeah,
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I didn't know that was our mission
statement, right. So maybe be
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careful with that one a little bit, but I'll I love all of those.
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Definitely tell me a little bit about
how you look at the transition point
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man, from from research to value
prop and then we'll get into some specifics
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of where to personalize, where to
rent and repeat and those sorts of things.
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Yeah, totally. So a I
mentioned that I was a courty owner
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and I put that on my on
my profile on Linkedin, and somebody from
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a competitor to outreach and sales loft, a smaller kind of upstart company that's
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in that same sales automation space,
reached out to me and said, much
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like a corby, we are small
but mighty, and I was like that's
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perfect, like that's the Seguay that
that caught my eye and like that's a
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stilly example, obviously, but that
kind of thing. It works. It's
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amazing. One of the STRs on
our team was doing some research on a
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person and they found their twitter profile
and on their twitter profile this person was
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very much about landscape paintings and so
and also had some call back to their
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home country, somewhere in western Europe, I can remember where. And what
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our SDR did was they went and
they found a landscape painting on Amazon shifted
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to that person and the message had
something to do with how, just like
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you, know you are interested in
these beautiful paintings, claire, you can
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help paint a picture of your entire
revenue, operations or organization. No,
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it doesn't need to be exactly by
the book Segue, but just the connective
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tissue between the research and the value
prop for the company. It can be
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relatively tenuous. Obviously the more concrete
the better, but it doesn't need to
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be a perfectly crafted sort of segue. You just need to help the person
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connect the dots a little bit more. This is easier to do with things
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like growth trends, where you can, you know, say you're growing very
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quickly. Here's how clary can help
you on board faster, implement process that's
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or whatever it may be. Standardize
that sort of on boarding flow. You
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just find the right way to to
tie or to build that connected tissue between
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the research you've done and then value
that your company is bringing. A lot
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of times people ignore this step completely
and therefore that the personalization is wasted because
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the email doesn't seem genuine. It
seems like it's it doesn't flow. It
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just feels to salese. It's kind
of a it's too obvious, you know
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what I mean. So there needs
to be some sort of link between the
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two things. Hey, everybody,
logan the sweet fish year. You probably
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already know that we think you should
start a podcast if you haven't already.
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But what if you have and you're
asking these kinds of questions? How much
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has our podcast impacted revenue this year? How is our sales team actually leveraging
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the PODCAST content? If you can't
answer these questions, you're actually not alone.
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This is why I cast it created
the very first content marketing platform made
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specifically for be Tobe podcasting. Now
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audio content while getting greater visibility into
the impact of your podcast. The marketing
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teams at drift terminus and here at
sweet fish have started using casted to get
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check out the product in action and
casted dot US growth. That's sea steed
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dot US growth. All right,
let's get back to the show. Yeah,
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absolutely, and I think something else
to think about is maybe you make
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that sort of really personal touch which
I've seen people post on linkedin and give
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shoutouts to SDRs for going that extra
mile. I mean kind of bucket your
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leads, bucket your your accounts.
Like don't send everybody a painting. That's
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not what we're saying, but you
should be tier in your accounts that you're
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going after the other thing is that, as you do that personalization research on
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the company, you know, I've
heard Joe Caprio, VP of sales over
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at course, talk about you know, how many reps are failing to effectively
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multi thread and the astronomical amount of
increase that that can have for your productivity
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as a sales Rep. so I
think we've got to combine those two.
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Write. If you're doing this research
on the company, don't just wait,
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wait, quote unquote, waste it
by just personalizing around one person. Go
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go after you know, that other
influencer and to, you think is the
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target decisionmaker as well. And then
you can have multiple touches that are more
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kind of that concrete connection and maybe
one that's little bit more of a stretch
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or design to make them smile,
like the core gear or the painting reference.
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You know, I heard Jason Bay
of listful prospecting talking on Scott Ingram's
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podcast daily sales tips the other day
talking about hey, we come up with
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all these ideas, all these value
props, and then we blast them all
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in the first email. It's like, oh no, no, we know
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it takes seven to eight touches.
Spread them out. Have the more creative,
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have the more straightforward, and spread
them out over your sequence. What
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do you what do you think about
that? Cow? I could not agree
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more. If you go through the
effort to do all of that different research
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and you get three, four,
five, whatever, it is, data
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points that you can personalize around,
drip it throughout the course of the sequence.
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There's no reason to shoot it all
out in one message. You got
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a multiplier chances because your prospects in
boxes are so flooded without reach, there's
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no guarantee that they're going to even
see your first mail. Let alone respond
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to it. The other thing that
I would say logan that's related to that
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is reuse your research in those multi
threaded channels. There is absolutely no shame
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in sending a similar, not the
same, but sending a similar message on
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Linkedin as you send via email.
And the other extension of that is on
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the phone. Your Voice Mail should
be research oriented. It should be very
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similar to the messaging that you sent
the email. That way, if they
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listen to your voice mail, they
search for you, for your name in
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the inbox and they get a similar
sort of written message. It should be
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make the experience for your prospect as
consistent as possible. It's hugely valuable and
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it's a really nice way to be
able to reuse that research that you do
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a few times. Yeah, it's
like what we talked about as marketers,
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you know, don't just create one
piece of content to use it once.
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You know, like Gary v talks
about content on content on content should be
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repurposed at least three, four five
different ways. We should think about that
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with our personalization and are messaging in
sales development and go to market teams.
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So let's talk a little bit about
some of your practical how to skyle on
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when and where to personalize in your
outbound messaging them. Yeah, yeah,
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so personalize the subject line, obviously, and personalize the intros to your emails.
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And the reason that this is so
important is because the every email client
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for the most part these days,
shows both the subject line as well as
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a preview of the email itself.
So you'll get, you know, somewhere
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between ten or twenty words that they
can see before they even open your email.
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So make sure that that's personalized.
It increases as the chance that they
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open your email. To begin with, the callouts to the research that you've
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done obviously need to be personalized every
and every single personize message you sent.
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And then the segue between that research
and the your company's value prop. It
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has to be personalized, and there
are ways, like you just mentioned,
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if you're reaching out to the same
or different people at the same company with
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the same piece of research, then
that Segue, of course, can be
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the same for those two different males. But you need to templatize those things,
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Intros, callouts and Segues, and
then you can templatize things like your
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company's value prop. Your company's value
prop should be a written by and be
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approved by product marketing either. They
are the best people are communicating the value
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of your product. So you use
that and templatize it. And yeah,
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it should be tailored for persona or
industry, but there's no reason for an
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SDR or a salesperson to be rewriting
a company's value prop every single time they
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write a personalize note. And then
calls to action. Calls to action should
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always be templatized and be as uniform
as possible. A lot of times SDRs
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and sales people get their get in
their own heads about, you know,
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crafting these really elegant calls to action
for a different levels of seniority and things
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like that is just not worth the
squeeze. So templatize the the calls to
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action and templatize the pain points that
you're solving for that person or for that
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company, and you'll multiply the effort
significantly. Again, these are this is
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what will allow you to Aplide by
that five minutes of research, five minutes
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of writing sort of principle, so
you can try and send out a personalize
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and note every ten minutes. Yeah, I love it, man. So
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for folks to recap a little bit
there. You know, what you are
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recommending is those first three points,
the subject and and first line of the
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email, the research and the transition, and then you want to lean more
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on your templates for that value prop
obviously you want to have different ones to
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choose from for Persona and industry,
but you should be choosing them, not
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writing them from scratch. And then
the calls to action. Like you said,
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one of my favorite expressions is the
juice worth the squeeze right, and
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it's just not in that area to
become super custom because if you've gotten them
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there, you've done a good job
of hopefully driving them to that call to
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action. I don't think that a
difference in that last line of the call
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to action is really going to make
a big difference. I love that you
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pointed out the first line, though. That's such a big thing. I've
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been recommending to folks when you send
a linkedin connection request, when you personalize
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it, don't put a line break
after you say hi Kyle Comma, like
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put High Kyle Comma or high kyle
space and then space and then keep on
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that first line because, much like
in email, that preview that you get
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isn't the whole thing right. When
you get a connection request, it's usually
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on those those first one to two
line so maximize that real estate where you're
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doing the personalization. So odds are
you know it's going to be seen.
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I also love what you said about
not being afraid to reuse that personalization.
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It shouldn't be the exact same message, but I think we get this in
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our head of like, oh they're
going to see that I reference the Corgi
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on linked in an email. Well, one they're probably not going to.
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They're probably only going to see one
of them. Right it just because the
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the the odds of what's going to
happen into if they do, if they're
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not the exact same thing, I
don't think they're going to fault you for
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it because they've seen, you know, kind of the double effort. Anything
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else that you want to you want
to add to this today? Man?
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Yeah, one last thought. This
pertains less to personalization and more to kind
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of email best practices. But something
that I got in the habit of doing
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early in my Sdr career and the
message that I preach now to to all
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starrs and sales people is, before
you send your personalized emails, read them
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out loud, like literally read them
out loud to yourself or to somebody on
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your team, and you'll realize that
your first draft is too long. You
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need to cut some things out.
You'll realize a lot of times that you,
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your message is more about you than
it is about them, and so
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you need to not use the word
I. As much as possible, avoid
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the word I. and also what
you'll find is you're too formal when you're
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writing emails and people you know people
are on the side of formality for some
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reason, and there's a major difference
between formality and professionalism. You always want
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to be professional, but you don't
want to be overly formal. That's like
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the number one indicator to me that
this is not an email written by a
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human is when it starts with dear
sir or Madam. Like God, it's
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not never anything I would ever want
to read. So yeah, read your
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emails out loud. I know it
can be a little painful at first,
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but again, this is meant to
in gender consistency. If you are writing
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in your voice, then when you're
speaking to that person, obviously in your
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voice. There will be a very
consistent experience across this different channel. So
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highly recommended. Yeah, absolutely.
One of the things that James and I
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talked about a lot is take that
copy, whether it's a marketing email,
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sales outreach email, copy on a
landing page or whatever, read it out
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loud and can you can you picture
yourself saying that to a buddy at a
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bar or a coffee shop or whatever
the case may be? So do that
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in the office. Just take it
and read it out loud. One of
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the things I do, more for
podcast solo episodes, but also for other
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sorts of content, including, you
know, outreach messages, is to open
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up Google Docs, turn on the
voice typing and then just talk it out.
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Now, of course the voice typing
isn't perfect and you got to clean
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it up for grammar and that sort
of stuff, but it kind of removes
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that disconnect of Oh my fingers are
touching the keyboard, I have to say
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dear sir, or Hello Kyle.
Why not say hey kyle? I would
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say hey kyle if I, you
know, was just talking to you.
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So it just makes some of those
subtle shifts that people can pick up on.
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I love that you also said limit
the use of I and I would
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say also limit the use of we, especially in that subject line and in
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that first line. Todd Capony,
who's the author of the transparency sale has
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been a guest on this show.
Before he calls that we weiing all over
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someone's inboss because it's we. Are
This we or the premier leader? They
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don't care right and don't say clients
like this or at this no, change
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the wording to where it says you. See How many times you can fit
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the word you into that email and
make it short, and you're going to
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be set up for pretty good success. Man, hundred percent agreed. I
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love it, Kyle. I could
chat with you on all this stuff all
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day long, but for the sake
of time we're going to call it for
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today. Thank you so much for
coming on the show. Man. If
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anybody listening to this would like to
stay connected with you, which I highly
338
00:23:11.789 --> 00:23:17.059
recommend that they do, or follow
along with your content or learn more about
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00:23:17.180 --> 00:23:18.859
clary and what you guys are up
to with the best way for them to
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00:23:18.940 --> 00:23:22.859
take action on any of those things. Man. Yeah, my most active
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00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:26.170
social channel is linkedin by far,
so please connect with man linkedin. My
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00:23:26.690 --> 00:23:30.490
user name is Kyle t coleman.
So yeah, come, come, and
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00:23:30.569 --> 00:23:33.690
find me. I'm always happy to
chat, Talk Shop, trade. Best
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00:23:33.730 --> 00:23:36.609
practice is whatever it is. I
would appreciate the outreach. Awesome man.
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00:23:36.690 --> 00:23:38.130
Thank you so much for joining us
on the show today. Thank you so
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00:23:38.210 --> 00:23:45.680
much looking we totally get it.
We publish a ton of content on this
347
00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.160
podcast and it can be a lot
to keep up with. That's why we've
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00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:52.880
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