Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:08.750 Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:08.789 --> 00:00:13.269 I'm joined today by Scott Miller. He's the executive vice president of thought leadership 3 00:00:13.269 --> 00:00:16.829 over at Franklin Covey. Scott, how's it going today, sir? Logan's 4 00:00:16.870 --> 00:00:19.589 great. I'm here at home with my three boys. Says the last day 5 00:00:19.629 --> 00:00:23.339 of school for Kindergarten, second and fourth grades. You're going to see some 6 00:00:23.420 --> 00:00:27.300 water balloons flying around the sky here, no doubt. I love it if 7 00:00:27.339 --> 00:00:30.460 you're listening to the show in your favorite podcast. Happen you didn't know that 8 00:00:30.579 --> 00:00:35.020 we now have an active youtube channel. Check out the BB grows show on 9 00:00:35.140 --> 00:00:38.450 Youtube and you'll see all sorts of behind the scene stuff. You might see 10 00:00:38.490 --> 00:00:42.770 some water balloons flying in the video version of this podcast. Well, Scott, 11 00:00:42.810 --> 00:00:47.369 as we introduced you, your current title is evp of thought leadership at 12 00:00:47.409 --> 00:00:51.159 Franklin Cuby and when you and I connected on Linkedin here recently, I thought, 13 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:54.840 man, I just hear the term thought leadership so often as I'm talking 14 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:58.920 to fellow be tob marketers. I really want to pick your brain about how 15 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:03.320 you guys approach thought leadership at Franklin Cubby. Your thoughts on thought leadership because 16 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:07.909 you've been a CMO at Franklin Covey. Now you are heading up that discipline. 17 00:01:08.230 --> 00:01:12.069 Tell us a little bit about why you guys, as an organization, 18 00:01:12.469 --> 00:01:18.390 have created at a discipline a title around thought leadership. It's not just kind 19 00:01:18.390 --> 00:01:21.620 of this ambiguous thing. I'd love to hear a little bit about that journey 20 00:01:21.659 --> 00:01:23.859 and then we'll get into defining thought leadership, what it is, how do 21 00:01:25.019 --> 00:01:27.540 it all those sorts of things from your perspective. Yeah, superb set up 22 00:01:27.540 --> 00:01:30.219 question Logan. I know. I think a lot of us are in the 23 00:01:30.540 --> 00:01:37.090 world of talking about thought leadership right and we're starting to explore it, including 24 00:01:37.170 --> 00:01:40.609 thinkling covey. We kind of formalize this about two years ago. We've always 25 00:01:40.650 --> 00:01:44.489 been in the thought leadership business. We didn't call it that right but as 26 00:01:44.569 --> 00:01:47.879 the world talks more and more about the value of thought leadership, I was 27 00:01:47.959 --> 00:01:51.319 the chief marketing officer for almost a decade. Stepped away from that about two 28 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:56.400 years ago and became the executive sponsor of our thought leadership division, because that's 29 00:01:56.400 --> 00:02:00.079 what we do. We develop unique points of view and perspectives on our industry, 30 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:06.670 mainly around leadership development, building cultures inside organizations that are sustainable, driving 31 00:02:06.709 --> 00:02:10.430 strategy through behavior change. And after forty years in business, finkling covey has 32 00:02:10.469 --> 00:02:15.819 some expertise. So for us it really was the formalization of so what is 33 00:02:15.900 --> 00:02:17.740 pr do, and what is books, our Book Division Do, and what 34 00:02:17.900 --> 00:02:22.379 do all of our webinars do? Kind of bring it together and articulating in 35 00:02:22.419 --> 00:02:28.300 about a function with responsibility and measure results, working with their marketing team has 36 00:02:28.340 --> 00:02:31.930 helped us tremendously to guy think, to elevate ourselves above, if not all, 37 00:02:32.449 --> 00:02:37.770 the vast majority of our competition globally. That's really interesting. I'd love 38 00:02:37.810 --> 00:02:40.009 to dig into the organization. They're a little bit Scott so tell us a 39 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:46.360 little bit about as you have now a a dedicated division to thought leadership. 40 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:52.120 What is the relation between the Thought Leadership Division and the marketing function and PR 41 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:57.800 and and content team to how's that laid out? Once you guys decided to 42 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:01.110 formalize it's a division called thought leadership. Yeah, it's rocky. I'll tell 43 00:03:01.110 --> 00:03:04.949 you. I'll be honest, I'll be very vulnerable, right. I mean, 44 00:03:04.990 --> 00:03:08.069 I was the only ever chief marketing officer that I had a variety of 45 00:03:08.509 --> 00:03:13.979 stewardships beyond the marketing division. Of Forty people were global public company. I 46 00:03:14.139 --> 00:03:17.139 stepped away. Up Behind me came the vice president of marketing. I promoted 47 00:03:17.180 --> 00:03:22.020 him. Very competent person, extremely competent, more competent than me in many 48 00:03:22.060 --> 00:03:23.939 ways in terms of where the company is going, and I moved over. 49 00:03:24.539 --> 00:03:28.289 And so as we took kind of half the team with us, it was 50 00:03:28.330 --> 00:03:30.330 kind of like mom and dad got a divorce, but they're still cordial. 51 00:03:30.729 --> 00:03:35.889 But yet they have different homes and different budgets and they have different understandings of, 52 00:03:35.930 --> 00:03:38.530 you know, who cooks dinner and who puts who to bed. So 53 00:03:38.569 --> 00:03:43.479 I honestly there was probably a year of just working out who has what responsibility, 54 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:46.960 who has which part of the sequence, who writes what, who promotes 55 00:03:47.080 --> 00:03:51.400 what? And we kind of organized it this way Logan. We said, 56 00:03:51.479 --> 00:03:55.189 you know, marketing our kind of the there the servers, and then the 57 00:03:55.270 --> 00:04:00.830 restaurant. We Cook the food. So we're the chefs and marketing, if 58 00:04:00.870 --> 00:04:02.990 you will, are the runners. There, the servers, mean they're serving 59 00:04:03.030 --> 00:04:06.349 the food out to everybody. So we try to work well with marketing. 60 00:04:06.389 --> 00:04:09.990 We're all very good friends. You know, good fences make good neighbors. 61 00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:14.020 Obviously there's issues in any organization when you're working with people with lots of competence, 62 00:04:14.099 --> 00:04:16.100 lots of Egos. I'm especially proud of how we've come to a good 63 00:04:16.300 --> 00:04:20.459 fit kind of with that idea of we cook it up, they serve it 64 00:04:20.579 --> 00:04:27.050 out. Interesting. So in your application, at least, thought leadership, 65 00:04:27.529 --> 00:04:33.050 the division is more responsible for the generation of the content, the ideation around 66 00:04:33.490 --> 00:04:36.209 what do we want to say, what do we have to say, and 67 00:04:36.250 --> 00:04:41.160 then you work with marketing on how you're going to deliver that messaging to you, 68 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:44.800 to the market. Yeah, typically that it was some some big differences 69 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:46.639 are I mean. So you know, for example, we publish a lot 70 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:51.560 of books where we've sold forty million books across the course of our our our 71 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:56.110 history, and so marketing is decide what the book is going to be, 72 00:04:56.509 --> 00:04:59.310 but once we write the book, they help to promote the book and distribute 73 00:04:59.310 --> 00:05:02.069 the book and, you know, interview around the book. I think my 74 00:05:02.189 --> 00:05:06.779 main role as the EVP of thought leadership is to make sure that two things 75 00:05:06.819 --> 00:05:12.860 happen, that we are selecting the right thought leaders as ambassadors for the company. 76 00:05:13.339 --> 00:05:16.420 You know, stewer, people fall frank follow Franklin coveys instagram and follow 77 00:05:16.459 --> 00:05:20.850 my instagram. Right, so I mean Stephen, Mr Covey's social media is 78 00:05:20.970 --> 00:05:25.490 more influential, I think. Then the companies is right. So we're very 79 00:05:25.529 --> 00:05:29.850 thought from complimenting. But my job is to identify who are the people, 80 00:05:30.170 --> 00:05:33.329 the names of the people that have expertise inside of our firm, lift them 81 00:05:33.370 --> 00:05:39.000 up and then have marketing help to distribute their thought leadership. And it's complicated 82 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:41.439 because, you know, people follow people, I think, more than they 83 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:44.680 follow brands. That doesn't mean that people don't follow brands, but if you 84 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:47.680 really want to build a relationship with your customer through thought leadership, they're going 85 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:51.670 to trust a personality, a person, a human name. Some of that 86 00:05:51.709 --> 00:05:57.110 they can relate to identify with. As a similar job, and I think 87 00:05:57.149 --> 00:06:03.029 that's a valuable insight, is to balance the presence of your company's brand with 88 00:06:03.189 --> 00:06:09.420 perhaps the presence of your founders brand or your CEOS brand or your you know, 89 00:06:09.579 --> 00:06:12.860 CMOS brand, or your chief revenue, whatever the person is that can 90 00:06:12.980 --> 00:06:15.860 speak for your company. I think that's a under leverage roll and a lot 91 00:06:15.899 --> 00:06:20.529 of organizations. Oh Man, absolutely we are. We're early in the process 92 00:06:20.689 --> 00:06:26.329 here at sweet fish, but we just internally launched what we're calling our evangelist 93 00:06:26.410 --> 00:06:29.610 program we don't want to just throw the label on. Hey, we've got 94 00:06:29.689 --> 00:06:32.199 five people that we've identified and their their thought leaders, because we think that, 95 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:35.959 you know, thought leaders should be a label that someone applies to you. 96 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:39.839 Well, said, applied to the words out of my mouth. Do 97 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:42.959 not call yourself a thought leader. Oh my gosh, I we have, 98 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:46.399 you know, joking text back and forth between our founder, James and I 99 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:50.310 when we see thought leadership or thought leader in someone's profile. Right, not 100 00:06:50.470 --> 00:06:54.470 in the mind I hold title. People find out not in not in their 101 00:06:54.550 --> 00:06:57.350 title like you have, but you know, in their headline. Yes, 102 00:06:57.509 --> 00:06:59.870 I get either. Right in I t space. Right, I get it. 103 00:07:00.029 --> 00:07:03.139 I get it so really interesting. I want to dig into the process 104 00:07:03.180 --> 00:07:09.100 you guys have gone through or currently going through in selecting those people, because 105 00:07:09.139 --> 00:07:12.220 we one hundred percent agree with you there, Scott. The people connect with 106 00:07:12.300 --> 00:07:15.889 people more than they do with logos. I mean you see that over the 107 00:07:15.930 --> 00:07:18.569 last couple of years. Before Dave gear heart left drift, he was the 108 00:07:18.689 --> 00:07:23.129 face of that franchise. Now for them, the fact that he moved on 109 00:07:23.290 --> 00:07:26.209 I don't think hurts their brand of time, because I still think of DG 110 00:07:26.370 --> 00:07:30.439 and I think of that brand and they've also invested in their CEOS brand, 111 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.639 David cancel. So talk a little bit about selecting those people and then operationalizing 112 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:39.959 that, because usually people who have the expertise within your four walls are also 113 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:45.589 the busiest people show. Building up their brands operationally can post some challenges. 114 00:07:45.670 --> 00:07:48.470 Right, you have to described to my life. So I think a couple 115 00:07:48.509 --> 00:07:56.470 of things. The deliberation and thoughtfulness you deploy to identify your thought leaders cannot 116 00:07:56.509 --> 00:08:00.259 be short circuited. Maybe not in this order, but here's some criteria. 117 00:08:00.620 --> 00:08:05.459 They obviously have to have credible expertise on the topic. I don't think you 118 00:08:05.540 --> 00:08:07.779 pick the handsomest person, of the youngest person or the person who looks like 119 00:08:09.019 --> 00:08:11.939 your client. No, no, you pick someone who has two chops, 120 00:08:11.379 --> 00:08:16.810 who has the intellectual Riggor, the experience, the education. It has the 121 00:08:16.930 --> 00:08:22.009 credibility to bring unique and valuable insight to the conversation, to your clients, 122 00:08:22.089 --> 00:08:26.439 to your prospective clients. Secondly, I think reputation. I think if this 123 00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:31.959 person has to show wisdom, deliberation, they have to calibrate their emotions well, 124 00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:35.639 they have to be a thoughtful speaker and writer, articulator. They need 125 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:39.360 to be comfortable on social media. Then you'd be comfortable behind a microphone on 126 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:43.669 a platform speaking to five people are five thousand people. They need to be 127 00:08:43.669 --> 00:08:46.350 able to write a weekly column and ink magazine or perhaps a long form column 128 00:08:46.669 --> 00:08:50.190 for some other group, or perhaps be understand difference between writing for print and 129 00:08:50.309 --> 00:08:54.509 digital. They need to be extemporaneous thinkers. They need to understand where the 130 00:08:54.509 --> 00:08:58.139 industry is going, not just for their own companies going. You need have 131 00:08:58.179 --> 00:09:01.220 a sales hat and a marketing hat but also sort of an operational hat, 132 00:09:01.460 --> 00:09:03.139 not to always be in sales mode, right, but to be value adding 133 00:09:03.259 --> 00:09:07.019 value. I mean it really takes kind of a full perspective. person. 134 00:09:07.379 --> 00:09:11.169 I'll tell you a lot of our thought leaders don't write that well. Some 135 00:09:11.250 --> 00:09:16.129 of our thought leaders don't speak that well right, as I'm constantly working with, 136 00:09:16.370 --> 00:09:18.450 you know, the great writer who perhaps isn't the great speaker, or 137 00:09:18.450 --> 00:09:22.610 vice versa, or the person who might may be in some cases, of 138 00:09:22.690 --> 00:09:26.919 one trick pony at surface value, but when you peel the UN you know 139 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:28.519 they've got more to think about. Let's go, let's kind of pull it 140 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.039 out of you, right, because how many times can interview in the same 141 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:35.879 exact topic. So thought leaders need to be evergreen, they need to be 142 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:41.429 curious and voracious readers. They need to have some humility so they can realize, 143 00:09:41.509 --> 00:09:43.750 no, I was wrong on that. Here's what I've learned. Let's 144 00:09:43.750 --> 00:09:46.429 talk about that. They have to have an abundance mentality. They could they 145 00:09:46.429 --> 00:09:50.549 can't be the smartest person in the room. They have to be one of 146 00:09:50.590 --> 00:09:56.139 the people in the room who's talking and listening and evolving their positions. And 147 00:09:56.259 --> 00:09:58.019 also, when I say abundance, meaning there aren't they aren't always the right 148 00:09:58.059 --> 00:10:03.820 person. Right they're willing to promote some other idea that now makes more sense, 149 00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:07.370 that's more timely than what was their idea. It's a tall order, 150 00:10:07.809 --> 00:10:11.090 but none of those things I mentioned are exaggerated. That that that is kind 151 00:10:11.090 --> 00:10:13.970 of the critier with which we tried out cultivate our thought leaders. Yeah, 152 00:10:15.049 --> 00:10:18.210 it's really interesting. A few people come to mind, you know. I 153 00:10:18.370 --> 00:10:20.679 think the other term, the other title we're starting to see out there in 154 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:24.799 the market place more and more is chief evangelist. I think of a good 155 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:30.200 buddy of mine, Ethan Butaute who hosts the customer experience podcast. He moved 156 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:33.440 from VP of marketing at a tech company called bombomb out here in Colorado, 157 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:37.629 to chief evangelist and just kind of what you were describing. Their well rounded, 158 00:10:39.350 --> 00:10:41.669 someone who can speak well, who can write well, he does fantastic 159 00:10:43.029 --> 00:10:46.669 hosting a podcast. He has enough of the sales hat to be able to 160 00:10:46.830 --> 00:10:52.059 know when to kind of double down when someone's talking about something that's pretty adjacent 161 00:10:52.980 --> 00:10:56.340 to their product or their service, to to tie it in, but not 162 00:10:56.539 --> 00:11:01.220 in a super salesway. What are some of the things that you've done, 163 00:11:01.259 --> 00:11:05.409 Scott, with your with your evangelist, with your folks, that you are 164 00:11:05.490 --> 00:11:11.330 developing their thought leadership to help them identify and speak on their point of view 165 00:11:11.730 --> 00:11:15.529 but not be to Salesz but not, you know, not be too arrogant 166 00:11:15.809 --> 00:11:20.320 and kind of create all of that mixture and also support them where some of 167 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.240 their lack is. Because here's another thing I'm talking with a lot of folks 168 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:28.159 offline about as a they say, man, we have these amazing thought leaders 169 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:30.919 in our company. I say no, you don't have thought leaders because no 170 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.789 one knows them. You have experts, and the difference between an expert and 171 00:11:33.870 --> 00:11:39.149 a thought leader is that they are known. And how do you get known. 172 00:11:39.269 --> 00:11:43.070 You create a lot of content that that person is able to share and 173 00:11:43.190 --> 00:11:48.259 that takes a lot of different media types. Video, audio, written format, 174 00:11:48.460 --> 00:11:50.419 ort form, long form. So, as you said, not everyone 175 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:54.379 is going to be stellar at every medium. So how do you coach them 176 00:11:54.539 --> 00:12:01.059 to do all of these things well or supplement them with your team around them 177 00:12:01.139 --> 00:12:05.210 to help them in those different areas where they don't necessarily excel? Yeah, 178 00:12:05.289 --> 00:12:11.169 it's it's a multifaceted question, multifaceted answer, I think. Increasingly so you 179 00:12:11.330 --> 00:12:16.399 do need to be exhibiting some expertise in all the medium's depending upon your industry. 180 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:18.799 Look at our industry, right. I mean, if you're going to 181 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:24.480 be anointed the thought leader by your definition, by the marketplace at Franklin copy, 182 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:26.759 you have to be able to be on a podcast, audio and video. 183 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:30.710 You have to be able to be on stage in front of Sevenzero people. 184 00:12:31.070 --> 00:12:33.990 You have to be able to present a key note for two hours or 185 00:12:33.110 --> 00:12:37.830 twenty minutes. You have to be able to host or be a participant on 186 00:12:37.870 --> 00:12:41.230 a webcast. You have to be able to speak extemporaneously. You got to 187 00:12:41.269 --> 00:12:43.899 have cadence and rhythm in your voice. You got to be groomed well. 188 00:12:45.019 --> 00:12:46.620 Today I'd not shade. I wasn't realize this was video, but yeah, 189 00:12:46.620 --> 00:12:50.259 I'm showing some humility there. You have to be able to write well. 190 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:52.820 So it does take a well rounded skill set. I think in many ways 191 00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:56.419 it's kind of a conundrum. As a thought leader you are a bit of 192 00:12:56.460 --> 00:13:01.850 a specialist, but you also have to be a generalist and the modalities and 193 00:13:01.889 --> 00:13:05.250 distribution, right. So it kind of is this this awkward phase of both 194 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:13.840 being an expert, having evergreen expertise in your content, but having these generalist 195 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:18.480 skills in distribution. Like your firm, we work with several firms that are 196 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.600 publicists and our digital distribution partners help get our word out. I don't have 197 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:28.710 any of our thought leaders focus on distribution as much as they're available for different 198 00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:33.029 mediums. Right. So we work with them on their social media, we 199 00:13:33.149 --> 00:13:37.830 schedule interviews, we prep them, we roll play, we hire coaches and 200 00:13:37.950 --> 00:13:41.820 take them to big auditoriums that have them speak from stage in front of nobody. 201 00:13:41.820 --> 00:13:46.100 Right, Aerosmith is at the stadium on Thursday and we're there on Friday, 202 00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:50.779 literally, right and we're running out the theater, whatever it is to 203 00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:54.379 make sure that these people are compelling incredible and such. It's a process, 204 00:13:54.929 --> 00:13:58.090 but you don't become a thought leader. As you said, you're an expert. 205 00:13:58.129 --> 00:14:01.929 You're an expert. It takes some it takes some enormous credibility and hard 206 00:14:01.009 --> 00:14:05.529 work to build that opportunity. And you said something off are that you looted 207 00:14:05.570 --> 00:14:09.559 to just recently. Logan, you talked a bit about the audience too. 208 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:15.440 I think so many of us are tempted to have a blowhorn and just spray 209 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:18.639 and say, you know, Seth Goden is the dear friend of mine. 210 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:22.000 He's endorsedment in my books. I'm writting a new book where I highlight Seth 211 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:24.549 and seth has this idea of smallest viable market. He wrote about it in 212 00:14:24.590 --> 00:14:28.629 his recent book. This is marketing. This is a turn that everybody that's 213 00:14:28.710 --> 00:14:33.070 listening to you today should be fixated on. Is What is your your smallest 214 00:14:33.110 --> 00:14:37.309 viable market, because I think as be to be and even be to see 215 00:14:37.389 --> 00:14:39.580 marketers, we come at it always from the wrong angle. What is the 216 00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:46.100 largest possible audience, the most social media? And it's tempting. It's almost 217 00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:52.220 counterintuitive. Seth would say and Seth has some chops. Seth would say no, 218 00:14:52.379 --> 00:14:56.649 opposite who is the first person? Who's the one person? Let's say 219 00:14:56.690 --> 00:15:00.009 you're in the business of selling training, like we are. Who is the 220 00:15:00.090 --> 00:15:05.169 first chief learning officer? WHO's the first chief people officer? What is her 221 00:15:05.210 --> 00:15:07.879 name? What is her title? Where does she work? How does she 222 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:13.799 consumer information? What are her company's problems? Check? WHO's the second chief 223 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:16.879 people officer? What is his name? Where does he work? And so 224 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:22.389 I would really evangelize. I have learned this the hard way from almost a 225 00:15:22.470 --> 00:15:26.029 decade as a chief marketing officer. Now uvp at that leadership. Do the 226 00:15:26.149 --> 00:15:31.789 hard work to what we call spearfish versus net fish. Net fish is very 227 00:15:31.909 --> 00:15:35.019 tempting. You're casting a net. That's readers digest right. That's news week, 228 00:15:35.179 --> 00:15:39.500 that's CNN, it's all great stuff. If you're selling, I don't 229 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:43.700 know, raisors, you're selling Adville. Everyone's got a headache, everyone's got 230 00:15:43.779 --> 00:15:46.259 to shave their legs or shave their beard, unless you're in Europe like it 231 00:15:46.340 --> 00:15:50.690 am. But it comes down to, you know, more specific audiences, 232 00:15:50.730 --> 00:15:54.370 which the vast majority has have defined a very tight market is. That takes 233 00:15:54.450 --> 00:16:00.970 great thoughtfulness, deliberation maturity to really go spear fish. Who are the first 234 00:16:02.210 --> 00:16:07.200 ten listeners to your podcast? Who are the next ten viewers of your webcast? 235 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:11.919 How should you curate your target market list? With those few people you 236 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:15.519 mentioned? Offline, it could be a couple hundred Franklin Franklin copy were a 237 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.590 global company. Quite frankly, it's about fiftyzero. We know what the number 238 00:16:18.629 --> 00:16:22.669 is. We know who are all of the chief learning officers. Who are 239 00:16:22.710 --> 00:16:26.149 the chief people officers? Who are the evps of organizational development? Who are 240 00:16:26.190 --> 00:16:30.750 the chief revenue officers? Right, we're very clear. So we have all 241 00:16:30.830 --> 00:16:33.019 their names, all their information, we know all their likes and dislikes to 242 00:16:33.179 --> 00:16:37.860 some extent, right, and we're trying to target our thought leadership differently based 243 00:16:37.899 --> 00:16:41.500 on their circumstance, because they're not all in the same circumstance. Some are 244 00:16:41.500 --> 00:16:45.500 an acquisition mode, some are indvestiture mode, some are in ramp up modes, 245 00:16:45.539 --> 00:16:49.090 some are in launch mode, right, but once we understand their profile 246 00:16:49.409 --> 00:16:55.610 and their unique circumstance, do our best to cater our thought leadership to them. 247 00:16:55.690 --> 00:16:57.769 Hmm Man, that is so good, Scott. I. I was 248 00:16:57.850 --> 00:17:03.360 having a conversation with a marketing team the other day of a BB brand and 249 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:06.319 they were asking me questions like, Hey, when you start a be to 250 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:08.759 be podcast, what are some of the early bench marks? How many downloads 251 00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:11.319 are people getting? These sort of thing and I, you know, kind 252 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:15.680 of always preface this because I know there's going to be kind of this let 253 00:17:15.789 --> 00:17:17.910 down. I said, well, you know, when you're first starting out 254 00:17:18.109 --> 00:17:21.630 and niche be to be podcast, you know your first benchmark is going to 255 00:17:21.710 --> 00:17:25.869 get to be get to a hundred downloads per episode. And I know what's 256 00:17:25.910 --> 00:17:29.670 happening in their head. They're picturing Gary v Joe Rogan, you know, 257 00:17:29.829 --> 00:17:33.259 type reach. And then I say what one if your CEO is is who 258 00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:37.420 you're trying to get anointed a thought leader in your space, whether that Cybersecurity, 259 00:17:37.460 --> 00:17:41.380 HR learning and development, whatever, how much would you pay to get 260 00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:45.009 them on a stage in front of a hundred people? And all of a 261 00:17:45.089 --> 00:17:48.930 sudden the context switches and also it plays into what you're talking about. You 262 00:17:48.970 --> 00:17:53.529 don't need to reach millions and millions of people with your podcast or that book. 263 00:17:53.769 --> 00:17:57.049 You probably need it to, you know, reach or get into the 264 00:17:57.089 --> 00:18:00.839 hands of a few hundred people, maybe a few thousand people, and it's 265 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:07.119 it's counterintuitive. Right investors ask the question. See Eos and founders early on 266 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:10.440 what's the Tam? What's the total address bull market? How big is the 267 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:11.839 Tam? Right? And we get caught up in that. We want to 268 00:18:11.910 --> 00:18:15.829 be part of something that has a huge total address of all market. But, 269 00:18:17.269 --> 00:18:19.509 as the old saying goes, you know, you can go a mile 270 00:18:19.630 --> 00:18:25.269 wide but only an inch deep if you are in be to be. You 271 00:18:25.349 --> 00:18:29.859 know, it makes me think of Sangrumbajeri, of another chief of angelist that 272 00:18:29.900 --> 00:18:33.539 we know over at terminus, recently wrote a book that ADM is be to 273 00:18:33.619 --> 00:18:37.259 be. It's all about identifying your target, the narrowest target that you can 274 00:18:37.380 --> 00:18:41.730 make, of the people that you can deliver the most value too, and 275 00:18:41.849 --> 00:18:45.490 then you deliver, to your point, Scott, the most value to their 276 00:18:45.730 --> 00:18:48.250 context that you can. And what we've been trying to do is, I 277 00:18:48.410 --> 00:18:52.529 think, in line with what you're talking about there, Scott, deliver value 278 00:18:52.609 --> 00:18:57.160 that's helpful to the folks in that context, but also leaning into the expertise 279 00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:03.079 and the unique point of view of the evangelists on your team. where, 280 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:07.440 where do they have kind of a contrary stance? Not necessarily just being contrarian, 281 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:12.069 to be contrarian and throw out tweets wherever, but where did they take 282 00:19:12.150 --> 00:19:15.869 a stand where? Where did they answer a question like what's a commonly held 283 00:19:15.869 --> 00:19:21.549 belief in your industry that you passionately disagree with? Are there some ways like 284 00:19:21.710 --> 00:19:25.259 that that you've drawn out some of those points of view from your internal thought? 285 00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:26.980 Leader Scott, first of all, you're legit, Dude. I bet 286 00:19:27.099 --> 00:19:32.380 on the block a little bit and I like you because you you you're legit. 287 00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:37.180 Secondly, this is easier said. It's easier for us to talk about 288 00:19:37.180 --> 00:19:41.210 this on a podcast than a marketing director or you know whoever it is, 289 00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:42.690 to go out and say, okay, so our goal isn't to get the 290 00:19:42.730 --> 00:19:45.690 largest possible database in next ninety days. o I see is to get the 291 00:19:45.730 --> 00:19:49.009 right database. It might be ninety names. It's not as fun, it's 292 00:19:49.049 --> 00:19:52.319 not as validating, it's harder. So I the first point I would say 293 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:56.920 is is resistant temptation. Are you chasing the right metric? I am privilege 294 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:02.720 now to host what is the world's largest weekly podcast dedicated to the topic of 295 00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:06.680 leadership. Hundred and twenty episodes, a lot of work, took two years, 296 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.549 hundred interviews, a lot of work. It's the largest subscribe to leadership 297 00:20:11.549 --> 00:20:17.190 podcast in the world. But it may not be the largest chief learning officer 298 00:20:17.269 --> 00:20:21.190 subscribe to podcast in the world, it may not be the largest collection of 299 00:20:21.269 --> 00:20:25.819 hrros. Listening to someone so as I had become obsessed with it being the 300 00:20:25.900 --> 00:20:29.619 largest and the most subscriptions, it probably is the wrong metric. It serves 301 00:20:29.660 --> 00:20:33.700 my vanity, but it doesn't serve the pipeline. So I would just remind 302 00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:37.809 everybody who's in the same role that I've been in is separate what makes you 303 00:20:37.890 --> 00:20:41.930 feel good, separate what maybe feels right from what is right. What's going 304 00:20:41.970 --> 00:20:45.170 to build your pipeline? What's going to add value to people who need to 305 00:20:45.289 --> 00:20:48.329 hear your message? And it might be twozero people, it might be two 306 00:20:48.369 --> 00:20:52.880 hundred people. Make sure you're chasing the right metric. To what you said 307 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.440 Logan, I think kind of you know, the voice of the customer. 308 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:59.079 I love this phrase you used. I I've already forgotten exact words, but 309 00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:03.359 really understanding you know, is this a conversation happening in your company, you're 310 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.150 in your industry and your association, in Your Network? If not, what 311 00:21:07.349 --> 00:21:11.190 is it you're facing? What are others facing? And then you ask is 312 00:21:11.309 --> 00:21:15.670 this something we should address? Franklin Covey spent too many years trying to kind 313 00:21:15.670 --> 00:21:18.470 of be all things to all people. We were put activity company and a 314 00:21:18.509 --> 00:21:22.099 leadership company. We had retail stores and paper planners and digital planners and all 315 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:26.619 these things, and Jack Welch sat us down fifteen years ago and talked about 316 00:21:26.619 --> 00:21:30.700 how he had, you know, cleaved off all these businesses off a GE, 317 00:21:30.259 --> 00:21:34.009 and then Rom Sharon came in took us more narrow and now our CEO 318 00:21:34.210 --> 00:21:37.609 is focus, like, is insanely focused right on what are the like six 319 00:21:37.690 --> 00:21:45.569 or seven circumstances, six or seven circumstances globally that our clients are in, 320 00:21:45.970 --> 00:21:49.319 and how can we become the best at solving those? Not A, not 321 00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:55.039 nine, not ten, not acquire everybody. We are not trying to become 322 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:59.359 the Amazon of training. The opposite. We're trying to become and we are, 323 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:07.430 the worlds expert at solving like seven particular problems that are current clients in 324 00:22:07.670 --> 00:22:10.430 prospective clients. Are Trying to solve it all, but most of your customers 325 00:22:10.470 --> 00:22:14.549 have one or two problems. Get obsessed around those. That is where that 326 00:22:14.670 --> 00:22:17.380 is apt. Those right. I mean that's where you will break out when 327 00:22:17.380 --> 00:22:22.940 you become fiercely diligent where you are willing to say no to more ideas than 328 00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:29.259 you say yes to because you're obsessed with solving particular problems and you now have 329 00:22:29.460 --> 00:22:33.170 the maturity and the credibility to, you know, have a bully pulpit to 330 00:22:33.809 --> 00:22:40.730 lift up your expert into a market anointed thought leader. HMM. Yeah, 331 00:22:41.049 --> 00:22:44.920 we're there, as you guys have continued down this road, Scott, where 332 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:48.440 there're some specific learnings. You know that. Hey, I wish I would 333 00:22:48.440 --> 00:22:52.759 have known this two years ago. Getting into it. You mentioned kind of 334 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:59.630 the division of responsibility between the Thought Leadership Division and marketing. How about enabling 335 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:04.910 those those thought leaders along the way? You mentioned getting distribution, making sure 336 00:23:04.950 --> 00:23:10.509 that they don't think or touch about distribution. Really just taking that off their 337 00:23:10.750 --> 00:23:15.500 off that plate, and getting them comfortable with creating the content anything, either 338 00:23:15.700 --> 00:23:19.539 in that ere ria or any other that. It's just like, man, 339 00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:23.259 if I had known these one or two things two years ago, it would 340 00:23:23.259 --> 00:23:29.049 have been a lot easier for us to get to this point faster or be 341 00:23:29.130 --> 00:23:32.450 able to get further down the road at this point. Yeah, insightful question. 342 00:23:32.529 --> 00:23:38.450 I think we have matured in and matching voice to market. Right, 343 00:23:38.529 --> 00:23:44.279 I could who is interested in Steven? Mr Cuddy's voice. He would a 344 00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:47.920 book called the speed of trust. is typically see level executives. Right. 345 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:52.519 Who is interested in hearing Corey cogan's voice? Shot an amazing book on project 346 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:56.430 management. Is People who are PMP certified. Right, certified project managers. 347 00:23:56.509 --> 00:24:02.349 So we've become much more deliberate around not letting a thought leader say, you 348 00:24:02.430 --> 00:24:04.829 know, I think my market is people that are NHR training and people. 349 00:24:04.990 --> 00:24:08.869 No, not, no, such your market. Right, let's get really 350 00:24:10.099 --> 00:24:14.539 thoughtful and narrow. Who is residing with you? Who Cares about what you 351 00:24:14.700 --> 00:24:18.700 have to say? How have your thirty years help to build credibility? And 352 00:24:18.779 --> 00:24:22.819 then go and build that? Right, what kind of look alikes? The 353 00:24:22.900 --> 00:24:26.890 second is, I do you said it is. I encourage these thought leaders 354 00:24:26.970 --> 00:24:30.930 not to obsess on distribution. Let me worry about that. I'll go land 355 00:24:30.970 --> 00:24:34.369 the Forbes column, will go land the ink column, I'll put you on 356 00:24:34.490 --> 00:24:38.240 CNBC, will go book you at a conference in keynote that you need to 357 00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:42.160 run your social media, because I don't think anybody can manage your social as 358 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:45.519 well as you can. You always can tell when it's outsourced. You can 359 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:48.319 always tell when someone's ghosting for you. Right, you got to build your 360 00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:53.509 social media, but I want you to focus on point of view, expertise, 361 00:24:53.789 --> 00:24:57.990 opinion content. How does that apply in this s IC code? How 362 00:24:57.990 --> 00:25:03.069 does apply on that S IC code? That takes a lot of work and 363 00:25:03.230 --> 00:25:07.660 always be rejuvenating in learning, not just in your own room validating your own 364 00:25:07.700 --> 00:25:11.019 research. All you have conferences. Are you on Webcast? Are you listening 365 00:25:11.059 --> 00:25:17.460 to the competition? Are you humble enough to check your own ego and realize, 366 00:25:17.500 --> 00:25:19.099 you know what, that's changed. That's an old paradigm, that's a 367 00:25:19.180 --> 00:25:22.369 new I need to have a new mindset on this. So that's what we 368 00:25:22.410 --> 00:25:26.410 do. I think the biggest challenge is really finding the time to manage people's 369 00:25:26.609 --> 00:25:30.930 their own social media, because I think it's an enormously relevant medium, still 370 00:25:33.529 --> 00:25:36.920 special when it comes to launching books. That's how you launch a book. 371 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.039 The only way you launch a book is through social media. Gone are the 372 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.160 days of forty city tours, gone are the days of book signings. Kim 373 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:49.190 Kardashian maybe beyond that. Know, what you do is you curate a valuable 374 00:25:49.509 --> 00:25:56.789 reciprocal relationship through your Social Media where people become appreciative of your value and when 375 00:25:56.789 --> 00:26:00.029 it comes time for you to speak at a conference or be on a webcast 376 00:26:00.069 --> 00:26:04.339 or being a podcast or launch a book or follow your column. Now people 377 00:26:04.420 --> 00:26:07.859 say that's worth my time. They've earned the right for me to pay attention 378 00:26:08.019 --> 00:26:14.900 to that, and that usually takes a full year to two years before you're 379 00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:18.259 sort of coming out, so to speak. Yeah, absolutely, I think 380 00:26:18.339 --> 00:26:22.809 setting x Long A. Sorry yet. No, that's fantastics got and you 381 00:26:22.890 --> 00:26:26.930 know, it speaks to the reality that you need to your evangelists. You 382 00:26:27.049 --> 00:26:32.009 need to set some expectations with them. One, it's not about those vanity 383 00:26:32.089 --> 00:26:36.160 metrics, as you talked about, and to don't expect those to come overnight. 384 00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:40.400 Anyway, the vanity metrics or the real Kpis. You know, we've 385 00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:45.680 talked a little bit about the your thought leaders having a point of view. 386 00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:51.630 We're big on having your evangelist like what is the stance that that they take, 387 00:26:51.710 --> 00:26:53.230 and we've talked about that a little bit. You also mentioned they can't 388 00:26:53.230 --> 00:26:57.109 be too salesy, but they have to have their sales hat on. One 389 00:26:57.150 --> 00:27:00.230 of the things that we've just in the last couple of weeks of rolling out 390 00:27:00.269 --> 00:27:06.220 this evangelist program within sweetfish. We have some folks who are very marketing minded, 391 00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:08.579 like myself. I've hosted this show talking to marketers for two years. 392 00:27:08.900 --> 00:27:14.700 I've been in BB marketing and sales for about twelve years. Our COOO has 393 00:27:14.740 --> 00:27:18.369 a ton of business experience, has a ton of value to add, but 394 00:27:18.529 --> 00:27:22.410 he's new to creating content himself. Yet he is one of our evangelist because 395 00:27:22.450 --> 00:27:26.529 of the expertise in the experience that he has, and so one of the 396 00:27:26.569 --> 00:27:30.920 things that we've recognized the is we need to help kind of coach him on. 397 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.640 Well, here's your point of view, here's this lesson that you've learned 398 00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.319 in business, but we need to break that down into kind of like you 399 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:40.839 what you were talking about in a different scenario. What does that mean for 400 00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:44.000 this sice could? What does that mean? How does that play out when 401 00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:47.069 you're firing someone? How does that play out when you're hiring someone? How 402 00:27:47.109 --> 00:27:51.430 does that play out when you're not sure to fire someone? Taking their point 403 00:27:51.470 --> 00:27:56.349 of view and breaking it down into all these tiny little micro scenarios, that's 404 00:27:56.349 --> 00:28:02.539 how you're able to create a lot of content and create content that is valuable 405 00:28:02.779 --> 00:28:07.099 to the context where your audience is sitting today, because just hearing the same 406 00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:11.140 thing over and over that will fall flat. But you know, kind of 407 00:28:11.140 --> 00:28:17.049 another example from kind of mass media is Gary V. He's said before, 408 00:28:17.490 --> 00:28:18.970 Hey, people have, you know, kind of trolled me and say hey, 409 00:28:19.009 --> 00:28:22.329 you basically say the same seven things all the time, and he's like, 410 00:28:22.410 --> 00:28:25.650 well, do you want me to start making stuff up? But he 411 00:28:25.809 --> 00:28:30.119 says the same seven things in very specific scenarios, whether that's hustle or patients 412 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:34.480 or having a long term perspective and business, those sorts of things. They're 413 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:38.799 common themes, but he's not necessarily just repeating the exact same thing. So, 414 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:41.950 as we close it out today, Scott, I just would love to 415 00:28:42.029 --> 00:28:47.710 hear any other thoughts on kind of coaching your evangelist, on how to walk 416 00:28:47.829 --> 00:28:52.990 that line between having a specific point of view but not being overly repetitive or 417 00:28:52.190 --> 00:28:56.859 overly sales because it is. It is a bit of a balance and there 418 00:28:56.900 --> 00:28:59.940 needs to be some coaching there for your team. Logan, again, I 419 00:29:00.299 --> 00:29:03.140 think you're insights the last minute or two were remarkable. I'm thinking, should 420 00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:04.460 we hired a logan to help in our company, because this guy's got some 421 00:29:04.579 --> 00:29:07.779 shots? So it's an art, right, a sort of science. It's 422 00:29:07.819 --> 00:29:11.410 this kind of Nice. It's it's Nice Salad Right. That you're putting together 423 00:29:11.529 --> 00:29:15.690 with. You want your thought leader to have a personality and then you have 424 00:29:15.730 --> 00:29:18.690 an opinion and us two be an opinion that builds the company's brand, right, 425 00:29:18.769 --> 00:29:21.410 and they you don't want them to do you want to don't want to 426 00:29:21.450 --> 00:29:25.039 strip them. They shouldn't just be a megaphone for the firm. Right, 427 00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:29.480 they need to also bring their own expertise to it. So it's a combination 428 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:33.559 of so many things. Right. It's thoughtfulness and personality, it's calibration, 429 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:37.359 it's High Eq because you can have the highest, you know, intellectual quotient, 430 00:29:37.630 --> 00:29:41.109 but if you can't connect to customers and prospects, be able, like 431 00:29:41.150 --> 00:29:45.390 I said, to modify your position, perhaps even speak about your expertise to 432 00:29:45.470 --> 00:29:48.630 different audiences. We have a lot of writers to have context, but it 433 00:29:48.630 --> 00:29:52.619 might need to be delivered differently to engineers than it is to perhaps human resource 434 00:29:52.660 --> 00:29:56.900 professionals, writer, to global companies versus narrow companies. So it's that sort 435 00:29:56.940 --> 00:30:03.099 of nimblenes without becoming a chameleon of character or chameleon of ideology. It's do 436 00:30:03.140 --> 00:30:10.609 you have the intellectual nimbleness and the flexibility to take your message expertise to a 437 00:30:10.730 --> 00:30:15.930 variety of different circumstances and two rolls. It's not for everybody. Yeah, 438 00:30:15.130 --> 00:30:19.849 absolutely, I think there's a man. There's another question I didn't let's close 439 00:30:19.930 --> 00:30:23.440 with that because I do want to sneak this question in. You mentioned how 440 00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:30.160 you develop the thought leadership division at Franklin Cubby. Is it is it for 441 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:34.640 everyone, or should it be a a function with the in marketing for earlier 442 00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:38.589 stage companies? What are some of the things that you guys wrestled with on? 443 00:30:38.869 --> 00:30:42.470 Should we break this out and make thought leadership its own thing within the 444 00:30:42.549 --> 00:30:47.670 organization or where? Should we not? I think we were so passionate about 445 00:30:47.670 --> 00:30:51.099 it because, you know, our entire company is an inductural property company. 446 00:30:51.500 --> 00:30:53.339 We don't really produce stuff. Right, want to simbly line. I mean 447 00:30:53.619 --> 00:30:57.059 people buy our books, they buy our you know, our inductural property. 448 00:30:57.380 --> 00:31:00.180 So for us it was quite natural. This is the business that were in. 449 00:31:00.700 --> 00:31:03.819 It made a lot of sense to for this to be a mouthpiece. 450 00:31:03.259 --> 00:31:07.650 I don't know that every organization how to have a division, but I'll say 451 00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:11.970 every organization probably got to have some thought leadership right. I mean you could 452 00:31:11.970 --> 00:31:17.529 be a nursery, meaning like a nursery of flowers or a nursery of tending 453 00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:21.319 to small children and each of you could have some thought leadership. It might 454 00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:23.079 go on your blog, it might be a webcast. I mean, I 455 00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:29.920 guess I was a CEO of a plant nursery or the CEO of a nursery 456 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.789 tending to small kids, I would be having a podcast that I'd be talking 457 00:31:33.789 --> 00:31:37.750 about fertilizer or only developmental childhood. Both of that is thought leadership, right. 458 00:31:37.750 --> 00:31:41.029 I'd be writing articles, I'd have a newsletter. A newsletter is thought 459 00:31:41.069 --> 00:31:45.789 leadership. I would be sharing what is our expertise and the hopes that a 460 00:31:45.869 --> 00:31:48.579 customer might post it in their social or they might forward onto somebody in their 461 00:31:48.619 --> 00:31:52.900 network is like minded. People work with like minded people. Typically, you 462 00:31:52.980 --> 00:31:56.140 know, people who have kids have friends that have kids. Right, people 463 00:31:56.180 --> 00:31:57.779 have gardens, have friends that have gardens. Not Always. Would you get 464 00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:00.769 the point? I think every organization, no matter how some all or how 465 00:32:00.809 --> 00:32:07.009 large, entrepreneurial. To Marryott, mean Bill Marriott his you know, the 466 00:32:07.049 --> 00:32:10.450 chairman of the board. I think still at Marriott. His his social media 467 00:32:10.569 --> 00:32:15.319 is amazing. I think more people follow Bill Marryott than maybe follow Marriott. 468 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:20.960 He's got thought leadership or it's a hotel. There's all kinds of thought leadership 469 00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:27.319 around travel right now within the CONA coronavirus situation right and pandemics and quarantines and 470 00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:30.750 looting at all that's going on in the world. I don't think any organization 471 00:32:30.869 --> 00:32:35.190 is too small to have some thought leadership. You should probably scale it with 472 00:32:35.309 --> 00:32:37.430 the size of your expertise in your organization. Who Your customer is right. 473 00:32:38.390 --> 00:32:42.630 I love that's got a great examples and I love the breakdown. Hey, 474 00:32:42.750 --> 00:32:46.220 two different types of nursery. They should have thought leadership. This should we're 475 00:32:46.259 --> 00:32:50.420 getting super tactical here. Well, Scott, this has been fantastic. I 476 00:32:50.660 --> 00:32:53.140 think I could talk marketing and thought leadership with you all day long. Thanks. 477 00:32:53.619 --> 00:32:57.700 Will have to have you on again for now. If anybody listening to 478 00:32:57.819 --> 00:33:00.569 this, you've just now popped up on their radar they want to stay connected 479 00:33:00.609 --> 00:33:04.210 with you or ask any follow up questions about what you guys are up to. 480 00:33:04.569 --> 00:33:07.130 What's the best way for them to reach out, stay connected with you 481 00:33:07.410 --> 00:33:09.410 or learn more about what you guys are up to these days at Franklin copy? 482 00:33:09.730 --> 00:33:13.599 Wellogan, thank you for asking so I'd be honor it if you follow 483 00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:16.720 me on linked dinner connected I'm pretty prominent on Linkedin, instagram, facebook. 484 00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:21.319 You also can Google me, Scott Lord Franklin Covey. You can visit Franklin 485 00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:25.759 coveycom. Subscribe to our podcast on leadership, comes out every Tuesday as well, 486 00:33:27.309 --> 00:33:30.029 and I'd say, I think, at a check out Logan's firm, 487 00:33:30.109 --> 00:33:32.670 because you all know what you're doing. So I'm going to check you out 488 00:33:32.670 --> 00:33:35.789 as well to let's stay in touch. Prahps, theres of let your chip 489 00:33:35.829 --> 00:33:40.309 for us to do some work together. Absolutely new relationships happening over content collaboration 490 00:33:40.349 --> 00:33:45.740 are if you haven't checked out our founders book yet, content based networking. 491 00:33:45.099 --> 00:33:49.220 Check that out in the show notes, folks, because this is just a 492 00:33:49.380 --> 00:33:52.579 testament to how well it works. You get to create content, you get 493 00:33:52.579 --> 00:33:57.329 to build new friendships with folks that you may not have cross baths with otherwise. 494 00:33:57.369 --> 00:34:00.410 Scott, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for getting on 495 00:34:00.450 --> 00:34:02.049 the show. Thank you. That, ever of water balloons going back and 496 00:34:02.130 --> 00:34:06.849 forth about four feet to my face is quite remarkable and a little bit annoying. 497 00:34:06.890 --> 00:34:09.480 Hey, I held your own. We delivered some great content. I 498 00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:14.360 apologized. Water uptions. Oh, that is fantastic. As always, folks, 499 00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:21.559 thank you so much for listening. Is the decisionmaker for your product or 500 00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:24.750 service a BEDB MARKETER? Are you looking to reach those buyers through the medium 501 00:34:24.789 --> 00:34:30.989 of podcasting? Consider becoming a cohost of BB growth. This show is consistently 502 00:34:31.070 --> 00:34:36.070 ranked as a top one hundred podcast in the marketing category of Apple Podcasts, 503 00:34:36.349 --> 00:34:39.380 and the show gets more than a hundred and thirty thou downloads each month. 504 00:34:39.860 --> 00:34:44.420 We've already done the work of building the audience, so you can focus on 505 00:34:44.539 --> 00:34:50.059 delivering incredible content to our listeners. If you're interested, email logan at sweet 506 00:34:50.059 --> 00:34:51.019 fish Mediacom
