1289: 3 Lessons on Content Distribution (from the Consumption Data of 4M B2B Professionals) w/ David Fortino

WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:09.310 Welcome back to be tob growth. I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:09.509 --> 00:00:13.230 I'm joined today by David Fourteen. Oh, he's the STP of audience and 3 00:00:13.349 --> 00:00:15.990 product over at netline. David, welcome to the show. How's it going 4 00:00:16.070 --> 00:00:18.309 today, sir? It's going great. Thanks so much for having me. 5 00:00:18.710 --> 00:00:23.300 Awesome. We are going to be unpacking some lessons learned from a report that 6 00:00:23.460 --> 00:00:26.500 you guys do. I believe you're on your fourth edition of this. Tell 7 00:00:26.500 --> 00:00:30.899 us a little bit about about the report. Really all around content consumption. 8 00:00:31.300 --> 00:00:35.700 Not Not a more applicable topic for B Tob Marketers today than this, but 9 00:00:35.810 --> 00:00:38.250 give us a little bit of context. How long you guys been doing this? 10 00:00:38.609 --> 00:00:41.890 Why it's so important that you guys have have been doing this on a 11 00:00:41.929 --> 00:00:45.329 regular basis over at netline? Sure, sure, do Ya. So this 12 00:00:45.409 --> 00:00:50.679 is our fourth edition. It's formally known, or actually known, as the 13 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:55.359 two thousand and twenty state of B Tob content consumption and demand report. It's 14 00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:59.719 really started four years ago, based upon questions from our own clients, saying, 15 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:03.719 okay, you're processing all of this data on an annualized basis, seeing 16 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:10.069 the content consumption trends that were occurring and really the customers wanted to better understand 17 00:01:10.109 --> 00:01:12.310 what was happening, not only as it related to their content, but other 18 00:01:12.670 --> 00:01:18.859 other competing organizations as well. Simultaneously, as an executive team, we met 19 00:01:18.980 --> 00:01:23.019 and really tried to force ourselves to rethink about how we were going to market 20 00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:26.659 right and and so most organizations talk about their products and their services and sure 21 00:01:26.780 --> 00:01:30.739 there's a content marketing strategy around that. But for us, who's always about 22 00:01:30.780 --> 00:01:37.290 the processing and capture of First Party, fully permission data that we deliver at 23 00:01:37.329 --> 00:01:42.010 scale to our customers. And so why not make data really front and Center 24 00:01:42.090 --> 00:01:45.849 for us as a company and build that out as our core pillar for any 25 00:01:45.890 --> 00:01:51.000 marketing strategy, not just content marketing, and then allow that data to educate 26 00:01:51.159 --> 00:01:53.879 marketers across the BB landscape so that they could be better at what they do? 27 00:01:55.640 --> 00:01:57.879 The thought process there is pretty simple, right, is that if marketers 28 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:02.069 become reliant on us as a way to become more insightful and educated about their 29 00:02:02.109 --> 00:02:06.709 executions and they're more likely to become a client of ours. And that obviously 30 00:02:06.750 --> 00:02:09.150 has proven itself out over time, or we wouldn't continue to do it. 31 00:02:09.389 --> 00:02:15.349 So I guess the one cool observation there is I've kind of come to the 32 00:02:15.389 --> 00:02:19.460 conclusion that, regardless of what type of company you work at, as a 33 00:02:19.539 --> 00:02:23.460 marketer, you should really be seeking internally, trying to find those nuggets and 34 00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:29.259 superstar things that make you guys special and find a way to externally articulate that. 35 00:02:29.460 --> 00:02:31.210 For us it's data, but for every type of company it could be 36 00:02:31.289 --> 00:02:35.610 something different. Yeah, I mean what I hear you saying is just thought 37 00:02:35.650 --> 00:02:38.849 leadership, one and one, you know, delivering and being helpful and trying 38 00:02:38.930 --> 00:02:42.650 to analyze the trends in the way that you can. It's a little bit 39 00:02:42.729 --> 00:02:45.759 Meta for you guys, because you're all about the data for the audience that 40 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:50.199 you serve, whether that's be to be marketers or ctos or or HR leaders 41 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:53.080 and talent leaders whatever. That absolutely I think our one riff, though, 42 00:02:53.120 --> 00:03:00.150 on thought leadership, is that we were in a crowded space and Martech in 43 00:03:00.270 --> 00:03:04.669 general's extremely crowded and there's a lot of pontification, and then there's also a 44 00:03:04.830 --> 00:03:08.509 ton of surveys of two hundred of your peers right and then it's a bunch 45 00:03:08.509 --> 00:03:12.979 of talking heads at the executive level all saying the same thing about what's going 46 00:03:13.020 --> 00:03:17.539 to happen next. Year and we made a cognizant decision to not do that. 47 00:03:19.020 --> 00:03:23.340 We didn't want us to be the thought leader. The data was right 48 00:03:23.460 --> 00:03:27.289 and I think it is a distinction there to say this is fact, this 49 00:03:27.449 --> 00:03:30.930 is an opinion, this is not some projected story that we believe will come 50 00:03:31.129 --> 00:03:37.289 true. This is based upon over five million leads and over Sixteen Peta bytes 51 00:03:37.330 --> 00:03:42.360 worth the content consumption behavior being analyzed. I saw that as we were connecting 52 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:45.280 over email before this interview. PEDA bytes. I was like, when was 53 00:03:45.319 --> 00:03:50.159 the last time I read Peta Bytes? I can't remember. Let's talk about 54 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:53.520 data a little bit. You you mentioned this significance of First Party data. 55 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:58.550 Talk a little bit about first party versus third party in what you guys were 56 00:03:58.590 --> 00:04:01.189 seeing. Now, as we get into the methodology and then unpacking some of 57 00:04:01.229 --> 00:04:04.590 the findings here. Yeah, and I think there's so first party versus third 58 00:04:04.669 --> 00:04:10.740 party. I'll describe and then we'll go into some particular reasons of importance, 59 00:04:10.780 --> 00:04:14.699 especially now moving forward. And so first party, as it sounds like, 60 00:04:15.419 --> 00:04:21.420 is directly sourced by individual users directly participating with content and deciding to share their 61 00:04:21.500 --> 00:04:27.730 information with you. So examples of that could be a person on an inbound 62 00:04:27.769 --> 00:04:30.129 strategy, finding their way to your corporate website, filling out a form, 63 00:04:30.370 --> 00:04:35.009 downloading a white paper or so on. On an our capacity, we operate 64 00:04:35.050 --> 00:04:41.560 a content syndication platform that's completely focused on driving by or engagement with be tob 65 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:46.920 buyers, and so all of that consumption is taking place as users are proactively 66 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:51.120 being recommended content specific to their business or technical challenges, but providing their own 67 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:56.949 information when they're at the being prompted to actually request and engage with that content. 68 00:04:57.750 --> 00:05:00.589 There's a ton of effort and energy and money being spent on the opposite 69 00:05:00.589 --> 00:05:04.029 side of the industry, which would be around third party data. You'll hear 70 00:05:04.069 --> 00:05:10.740 references to this around intend or signals, things like that. I wouldn't say 71 00:05:10.779 --> 00:05:14.939 it's not used. It's or not necessarily you need to be used. It's 72 00:05:14.980 --> 00:05:20.180 certainly valuable. That said, it comes down to the fundamental debts I hear 73 00:05:20.300 --> 00:05:26.170 and part of its philosophical which is, are you okay as a marketer, 74 00:05:26.649 --> 00:05:31.730 tapping into data sets where your customer has zero idea that they're participating? And 75 00:05:31.850 --> 00:05:36.920 it's a really a challenging philosophy for much of the web right much of display 76 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:43.000 based advertising has been predicated on buying audiences when the audiences have no idea that 77 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:46.519 they're being sold. Social Media has a classic case of that as well. 78 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:49.189 We're just on the opposite side of the spectrum, right, users that have 79 00:05:49.430 --> 00:05:54.790 to make a choice. They are provided the ability to do so. It's 80 00:05:54.870 --> 00:05:59.269 their choice to provide their information and, as such, the intent associated to 81 00:05:59.430 --> 00:06:01.670 that type of user, who sees your brand, who sees that long form, 82 00:06:02.069 --> 00:06:08.819 who sees your content, decides to engage, is statistically exponentially greater than 83 00:06:08.860 --> 00:06:13.939 a user who's cookies been followed unknowingly for thirteen days and traveling, you know, 84 00:06:14.100 --> 00:06:17.139 watching their behavior as it hits various news websites. It's not to say 85 00:06:17.180 --> 00:06:21.209 that that's not interesting and doesn't give you a better picture of your users journey, 86 00:06:21.370 --> 00:06:28.850 but realistically I think you've got to separate that. Now, looking forward, 87 00:06:29.290 --> 00:06:32.680 there's a ton of pushback from the attack and also even the government industries 88 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:39.639 on the lack of use of third party data, especially across domains, and 89 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:45.560 then also the push towards the removal of cookies in general, and so all 90 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:48.389 of those models are predicated on third party data sets, not first party, 91 00:06:48.550 --> 00:06:54.670 and so you're seeing a lot of media companies now digging back in to the 92 00:06:54.790 --> 00:06:59.350 age old model that won't die and starting to create new email newsletters. The 93 00:06:59.709 --> 00:07:02.819 whole idea. There's your caption, first party data. You're then building progressive 94 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:06.459 profiles and so on and going from there. Yeah, it seems like most 95 00:07:06.500 --> 00:07:12.060 marketers I talked to the the size of their own email list is still, 96 00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:15.970 you know, a very important staff for them, because it is, it 97 00:07:15.370 --> 00:07:19.290 is somewhat that the keys to the castle. Let's talk a little bit about 98 00:07:19.370 --> 00:07:23.850 some that's talked about in the report that you guys called the consumption gap. 99 00:07:23.889 --> 00:07:27.370 UNPACK that force a little bit. They would, I should are so the 100 00:07:27.449 --> 00:07:32.360 consumption gap was a phrase that we coined on our first report and it was 101 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:36.800 based upon an observation that we actually never knew. We tract, we found 102 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:42.800 the data set just lurking and our engineering team delivered it to us and we 103 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:46.829 didn't really know what to really decipher it as. And ultimately it's the time 104 00:07:47.029 --> 00:07:53.189 between when a user actually decides to request your content, so they're registering for 105 00:07:53.230 --> 00:07:58.779 a Webinar or downloading an ebook or a podcast or white paper, and the 106 00:07:58.899 --> 00:08:03.459 time that they ultimately get around to consuming it. And so what's mind blowing 107 00:08:03.579 --> 00:08:07.699 is that, regardless of the year that we've published the report, on average, 108 00:08:07.740 --> 00:08:11.819 it's taking well over twenty four hours for the actual professional to get around 109 00:08:11.139 --> 00:08:16.730 to engaging with that content that they instantaneously did have access to, right. 110 00:08:16.850 --> 00:08:20.730 So, they requested it, they have access to it immediately. Yeah, 111 00:08:20.850 --> 00:08:22.970 so you're not talking about the gap between the request for the Info in the 112 00:08:24.009 --> 00:08:28.319 delivery of the content. You're talking about the time from request to actual consumption, 113 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:35.080 exactly exactly. And so what's interesting here is that you're looking at averages 114 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:37.960 around twenty four hours. For VP's they're exactly at twenty four four. Senior 115 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.950 directors, they tend to be the fastest and they'll consume content at around twenty 116 00:08:43.029 --> 00:08:46.669 hours after their initial point of request. Contractors are the absolute worst and that 117 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:50.710 they take up to forty four to forty five hours. But what's, I 118 00:08:50.830 --> 00:08:56.019 think, most pertinent here for marketers to understand is how that fact layers over. 119 00:08:56.059 --> 00:09:01.259 There exist nurture paths and follow up procedures when it comes to actually interacting 120 00:09:01.299 --> 00:09:09.259 with their sales foaks and so calling someone instantaneously and saying hey, thanks so 121 00:09:09.299 --> 00:09:13.129 much for downloading the report. What you think about the data? That's not 122 00:09:13.289 --> 00:09:15.889 the right context. It's not to say that you can't make the call, 123 00:09:16.370 --> 00:09:20.610 but the context needs to change. The user has not engaged with your content, 124 00:09:20.730 --> 00:09:24.289 they've not read any of it or watched a minute of your video. 125 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:28.120 So you need to still be appreciative if you want to create that first impression. 126 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:31.759 Make sure that you're presented as a resource and that you'll follow up down 127 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:35.799 the road. It's not it's just simply not as great starting point. And 128 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:41.669 knowing this data onhand, we've had countless clients actually pivot their nurture paths to 129 00:09:41.710 --> 00:09:43.830 run on this lader a little bit more of a delay. Firsts what they 130 00:09:43.830 --> 00:09:48.629 had, their sales follow up procedures have changed and so on, and this 131 00:09:48.750 --> 00:09:50.629 is something we put in a practice on our side. The only time you'd 132 00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:54.899 override that is obvious, and not if a user explicitly said the requesting for 133 00:09:54.980 --> 00:09:58.100 you to contact them. They want a demo and yet disregard all of this 134 00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:01.220 and jump right to it. But yeah, that's it's a huge one. 135 00:10:01.259 --> 00:10:07.330 It's been eye opening because we didn't necessarily expect to see it be that long. 136 00:10:07.009 --> 00:10:13.370 It defies most understood thought processes related to that. Has that consumption gap 137 00:10:13.409 --> 00:10:15.730 over the last four years of you, as you guys, have done that 138 00:10:15.850 --> 00:10:18.330 report. Have you seen that Linkedin? Have you seen it shortened? Has 139 00:10:18.370 --> 00:10:24.000 it been the same as it's actually lengthened really? Okay, so it's taking 140 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:30.799 eight percent longer this year than in past years. So, yeah, this 141 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:33.879 gets into areas where we as a company try not to go, where we 142 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:37.470 start hypothesizing about things without facts to prove them. You know, the fact 143 00:10:37.549 --> 00:10:43.470 is it's taking eight percent longer. The reality is perhaps the markets more flooded 144 00:10:43.470 --> 00:10:46.269 with content than ever and it's harder for people to keep up with said content. 145 00:10:48.309 --> 00:10:52.100 There's more distractions, companies are constantly being asked to do more with less. 146 00:10:52.139 --> 00:10:56.700 All of those things. I'm sure all of that adds up to you, 147 00:10:56.139 --> 00:11:01.100 some of that delay, but I can't quantify that with with confidence at 148 00:11:01.100 --> 00:11:05.289 least. So I would say just aunt about. Yeah, again, this 149 00:11:05.450 --> 00:11:09.450 is just anecdotal, but I know in in my own experience, often times 150 00:11:09.490 --> 00:11:15.330 I will request a piece of a piece of content and I will immediately save 151 00:11:15.490 --> 00:11:18.679 that in a bookmarking APP that I use called pocket. I can catalog it, 152 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.840 I can put tags on it and it's there from when when I'm ready, 153 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:28.039 because due exactly times when I when I find something, it's not necessarily 154 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:30.799 that I was looking for it. It might be an email I was subscribed 155 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:33.990 to or a piece of content that was promoted on social and it seems interesting 156 00:11:35.029 --> 00:11:37.990 and I don't want to lose it, but it doesn't mean I'm going right 157 00:11:37.190 --> 00:11:43.309 to write to consuming it. The other metric beyond you know, because I 158 00:11:43.389 --> 00:11:48.820 think we get caught up so much as marketers in okay, someone's downloaded a 159 00:11:48.820 --> 00:11:52.419 piece of content. That equals a lade right, and that's because we've been 160 00:11:52.820 --> 00:11:58.340 trained to to be measured on mql's and ask you and leads in general. 161 00:11:58.740 --> 00:12:03.690 That's where the lead measurement starts. However, you're pointing out there are several 162 00:12:03.970 --> 00:12:09.049 micro conversions along the way requesting the content, actually consuming the content. That 163 00:12:09.210 --> 00:12:13.169 gap there. Have you noticed in your research, David, how much of 164 00:12:13.330 --> 00:12:18.320 that, how much of that requested content actually goes unconsumed? You talk about 165 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:22.519 the delay, but then the percentage that is consumed or unconsumed. Have you 166 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:24.919 seen some trends around that as well? It's been pretty steady actually, and 167 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:31.070 it's about eleven percent of content ultimately gets requested and not engaged with. And 168 00:12:31.350 --> 00:12:37.990 so I've not done enough of a deeper dive into whether there's commonalities on topics, 169 00:12:39.629 --> 00:12:46.220 on persona of an audience segment that perhaps bubbles out to a really unique 170 00:12:46.259 --> 00:12:50.019 observation in the market place. It's a good idea actually. But yeah, 171 00:12:50.019 --> 00:12:54.820 we typically see around eleven percent consistently on an annualized basis of users who just 172 00:12:54.980 --> 00:12:58.850 don't engage. That's that's actually pretty encouraging to me. I was exp absolutely 173 00:13:00.049 --> 00:13:01.570 it because I mean, if you flip that around, that means ninety Bo, 174 00:13:01.769 --> 00:13:05.649 almost ninety percent of that content is getting consumed, and to me that's 175 00:13:05.690 --> 00:13:09.970 pretty encouraging. I would have expected that number to be lower. As far 176 00:13:09.970 --> 00:13:13.159 as the actual content consumption, you know, I had down here that we 177 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:18.840 wanted to talk about the question of time. Is that related to the time 178 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.919 of the follow up here or something else within the report that you wanted to 179 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:24.679 call out, David? Yeah, so, as it related to the consumption 180 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:31.029 gap it, it turns out that each job area and also job level has 181 00:13:31.070 --> 00:13:35.950 a predisposed time when it's best to reach them for consuming content, and so 182 00:13:37.070 --> 00:13:39.909 this gets back to not only the gap but when they're actually engaging with content. 183 00:13:41.029 --> 00:13:46.419 The first place one that's stuck out was ceasweet professionals. Tuesday at ten 184 00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:52.059 am local time, regardless of the geographic region, is the best time to 185 00:13:52.179 --> 00:13:56.809 reach them with any type of BB content. Why that is I have no 186 00:13:56.929 --> 00:14:00.330 idea. It sounds to me. It seems like a weird time, right, 187 00:14:00.409 --> 00:14:03.330 you would think earlier in the morning, possibly at lunch, mid morning. 188 00:14:05.129 --> 00:14:07.929 I can't compute that. But again, the data is what it is, 189 00:14:09.090 --> 00:14:13.799 and so we've taken a stance where we are externalizing all of this data, 190 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:18.600 arming marketers with the information and hopefully allowing them to execute better campaigns moving 191 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:22.759 forward. And so if marketers are thinking about that, that is the the 192 00:14:24.389 --> 00:14:28.870 time when they're best consuming it or most apt to to request and actually take 193 00:14:28.950 --> 00:14:33.629 action on it. So most like APP, yeah, most APPs to engage 194 00:14:33.870 --> 00:14:37.940 and and actually engage with your content. So, whether you're using US, 195 00:14:39.059 --> 00:14:43.139 whether you're promoting to your own inhouse file, if you're running display campaigns, 196 00:14:43.179 --> 00:14:46.059 you could probably do some day parting around that as well. It might be 197 00:14:46.220 --> 00:14:50.139 some interesting tactics, even if it's an ABM campaign, knowing that these folks 198 00:14:50.179 --> 00:14:56.450 are at their desks. You're not wasting impressions because on an ABM display campaign 199 00:14:58.009 --> 00:15:01.490 you're likely to be hitting the account, but not necessarily the sea suite. 200 00:15:01.850 --> 00:15:05.769 So if you were stacking a day part around ten am local, you're more 201 00:15:05.970 --> 00:15:09.360 more than likely to hit them. Interesting. I love digging into data like 202 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.600 this. I can, I can nerve down on it all day long. 203 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.399 David, let's talk a little bit. You know, we've tried not to 204 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.960 hammer the new normals so much all the time, coronavirus, the the covid 205 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:24.309 nineteen pandemic. But we've got to think about what does all of this mean 206 00:15:24.909 --> 00:15:31.190 in a postcovid world as we look forward to you know whatever, then the 207 00:15:31.350 --> 00:15:35.470 coming months in and years contained it seems like two thousand and twenty. No 208 00:15:35.590 --> 00:15:37.659 one knows what the heck the next day is going on ring. But what 209 00:15:37.820 --> 00:15:41.500 are some of the things? Again, without getting into too much hypothesizing, 210 00:15:41.580 --> 00:15:46.419 but what? What is the data showing marketers that they can take action on, 211 00:15:46.539 --> 00:15:50.409 based on based on these finding staved? Yeah, so the one thing 212 00:15:50.490 --> 00:15:54.809 that we've done there is we've really tried to take a more interactive stance on 213 00:15:56.490 --> 00:16:00.730 the annualized reporting that we historically have created. This now the two thousand and 214 00:16:00.730 --> 00:16:04.159 twenty report, and that we typically would create a static report and then let 215 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:07.840 a year go by and revisit all of the data and have another benchmark, 216 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:12.120 and so that's all well and good, but I don't feel it's good enough 217 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:17.080 now. And so we've been asked by a lot of our clients even and 218 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:22.909 users trying to better understand consumption patterns as they're happening today throughout the world, 219 00:16:22.750 --> 00:16:26.389 topics that are being impacted, and so we ultimately have started diving into this 220 00:16:26.470 --> 00:16:33.820 and we've been trying to produce monthly summaries on the impact that covid had at 221 00:16:33.860 --> 00:16:37.779 a consumption level across job areas, industries, geographic re agents and so on, 222 00:16:37.940 --> 00:16:44.019 and so that's something we're committed to. Will continuously externalize that on our 223 00:16:44.059 --> 00:16:48.610 blog until we don't have to. And so at some point I think the 224 00:16:48.649 --> 00:16:51.610 data is just going to normalize and look as normal as it could be, 225 00:16:51.850 --> 00:16:55.529 an even if that normal is different than what it was, there's not going 226 00:16:55.570 --> 00:16:59.850 to be any more interesting nuggets and stories to pull out. If that's the 227 00:16:59.929 --> 00:17:04.480 case, then we'll probably stop that blog series. The first post we looked 228 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:08.799 at it was crazy because there was starting to be a flood of covid related 229 00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:15.309 business content being pushed on the platform within what was it a week. We 230 00:17:15.430 --> 00:17:22.990 saw as sixty six hundred percent increase from the beginning of January to the following 231 00:17:22.109 --> 00:17:26.789 week of January and requesting of that content. What was more interesting, though, 232 00:17:27.109 --> 00:17:32.779 was how that content was being requested and by whom. And so the 233 00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:37.740 first thing that happened was sea sweet professionals within large organizations for downloading this content 234 00:17:37.859 --> 00:17:42.019 at least a week in advance of their peers inside the company. And so 235 00:17:42.299 --> 00:17:47.049 right off the bat we're starting to think of things differently than we've ever had 236 00:17:47.130 --> 00:17:52.130 as well, where we're able to see content trends happening live before they're actually 237 00:17:52.210 --> 00:17:56.849 being ruled out. So that was a great example of seeing senior leadership doing 238 00:17:56.970 --> 00:18:00.599 research about what possible impact this is going to have on their company and then 239 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:04.480 ultimately their employees, about a week and a half to two weeks later, 240 00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:08.559 downloading the same types of content as they are learning about the things that are 241 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:12.869 going to happen in their company. A lot of that content spiking was around 242 00:18:14.069 --> 00:18:22.309 remote employees, were remote management, management of I would say management, growth 243 00:18:22.470 --> 00:18:26.180 tactic, stress management and oddly, some anxiety content to yeah, I mean 244 00:18:26.380 --> 00:18:30.940 it makes total sense. The other thing I think, to pull out of 245 00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:36.859 that lesson, just kind of an anecdote, thinking about for marketers and for 246 00:18:37.059 --> 00:18:41.259 sellers in the sea suite, the CEO and others in the sea suite. 247 00:18:41.690 --> 00:18:45.809 I've heard before from folks like Gong and and others. When you're selling to 248 00:18:45.890 --> 00:18:49.170 the sea sweet you need to talk less about the problems they've encountered and how 249 00:18:49.250 --> 00:18:52.930 you fix them. You need to talk about looking forward, the problems they're 250 00:18:52.970 --> 00:18:56.799 going to encounter, the ways they're going to deal with situations, the ways 251 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.640 that they can innovate and take advantage of new opportunities that are coming in the 252 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:04.440 future. And just that little nugget. You talking about CEOS and sea level 253 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:08.960 executives downloading the same sort of content about a week before. That is more 254 00:19:10.309 --> 00:19:14.950 forward looking. That is, you know, future looking more so than folks, 255 00:19:15.150 --> 00:19:18.349 you know, lower on the Totem Pole, I guess you could sebolutely 256 00:19:18.789 --> 00:19:22.670 within organization. So that that was really interesting. Yeah, there's going to 257 00:19:22.710 --> 00:19:26.180 be another follow up post published, I believe, before the end of this 258 00:19:26.299 --> 00:19:30.819 week, that's going to be talking about the continuance of those trends, but 259 00:19:30.019 --> 00:19:34.900 by a job area perspective. And what's, I suppose, troubling right now 260 00:19:34.980 --> 00:19:41.210 is that we're seeing a massive spike of legal professionals, lawyers, consuming content 261 00:19:41.250 --> 00:19:47.690 and so historically across the platform I've not seen that type of behavior. So 262 00:19:47.809 --> 00:19:52.609 that's saying a lot of things right. People are either getting worried about legal 263 00:19:52.650 --> 00:19:57.640 implications to their business perhaps trying to firm things up as to how things proceed. 264 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:04.359 The second largest biking job area is obviously pretty transparent, which is hr 265 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:10.309 and that's unfortunate as well. And so because we know behind the scenes unemployments. 266 00:20:10.349 --> 00:20:15.109 What fifteen percent plus in the states. So yeah, we're seeing, 267 00:20:17.109 --> 00:20:21.349 I think, some interesting positive things happening, but we're also seeing real time 268 00:20:21.460 --> 00:20:25.859 negativity through content consumption. But it's just our position to try to share this 269 00:20:26.019 --> 00:20:29.579 with everybody. Yeah, it's been interesting. The other thing that I can 270 00:20:29.660 --> 00:20:32.859 share in this is by far not based on as much data as you guys 271 00:20:32.900 --> 00:20:37.609 have collected, but we noticed, you know, in we were James Are 272 00:20:37.809 --> 00:20:41.690 CEO and I were contributing to some research just this week on BB podcasting. 273 00:20:41.769 --> 00:20:48.130 We got the question how has the pandemic affected podcast listenership, because, you 274 00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:52.680 know, commute times have been one of the staples of growing or audio content 275 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:59.440 consumption and we saw a pretty significant dip in March and April and in May, 276 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:02.920 as we just finished looking at that, because we're recording very first part 277 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:06.950 of June here, we were back up and above and back to trending the 278 00:21:07.069 --> 00:21:08.910 way that we were. And I just saw a recent news article. I 279 00:21:08.990 --> 00:21:11.910 can't remember who it was from, but from what they saw, I can't 280 00:21:11.910 --> 00:21:18.269 necessarily cite the source, but podcasting content saw across the across the board, 281 00:21:18.269 --> 00:21:22.299 a bit of a dip and then back on to the same growth trajectory which 282 00:21:22.579 --> 00:21:26.660 to me kind of mirrored my own content consumption because I went to fully remote 283 00:21:26.660 --> 00:21:30.740 work two years ago and I joined the team here at sweetfish right and all 284 00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:33.849 of a sudden all of my drive time as an outside sales person was gone. 285 00:21:34.210 --> 00:21:38.809 But over time that the audio consumption kind of filled new spaces for me 286 00:21:38.930 --> 00:21:41.769 when I was walking the dog or doing the dishes, those sorts of things. 287 00:21:41.809 --> 00:21:47.599 So curiously here, if you guys have noticed anything in your recent data 288 00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:51.200 analysis, David on, we saw US content channels. Yeah, we saw 289 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:57.599 a slight dip and most of our content tends to be highly produced editorial laden 290 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:02.750 content and then next video, and so I would say we saw a slight 291 00:22:02.869 --> 00:22:07.910 dip in March across all content formats. Right now. There's a massive spike 292 00:22:07.150 --> 00:22:11.470 in consumption of Webinars, but everything else is really come back to where was, 293 00:22:11.789 --> 00:22:17.019 which is very encouraging. I think the only caution I would have with 294 00:22:17.619 --> 00:22:22.460 sales folks reaching out on marketing generated leads would be again going back to context 295 00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:29.980 I've I do you feel like professionals are proceeding with understanding technical or business hurdles, 296 00:22:30.089 --> 00:22:34.369 doing research to do so? But everybody's mental framework right now is a 297 00:22:34.410 --> 00:22:38.130 little bit different. Right. Even getting back to the podcasts and why I 298 00:22:38.329 --> 00:22:42.650 suspect you're seeing an increase again, it's like people are looking to try to 299 00:22:44.089 --> 00:22:47.039 regain some normalcy, right, even if it means they're not going to be 300 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:49.759 in their car, and so, like I'm a cyclist outside of this. 301 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:56.160 I've just been consuming a ton of cycling podcast lately just because it's just one 302 00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:59.549 less reason for me to pay attention to the real world because it's not so 303 00:22:59.750 --> 00:23:03.910 good. So, you know, I think everyone's going through that and whether 304 00:23:03.950 --> 00:23:08.829 that's immersing yourself into more real, hardcore business content, entertainment content or so 305 00:23:10.109 --> 00:23:14.099 on, I think that's why we're seeing spikes across the board. The webin 306 00:23:14.180 --> 00:23:18.859 our side is obvious, though, and that all offline events are canceled, 307 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:25.700 and so all of that budget effort and important terms of Lee generating vehicles had 308 00:23:25.819 --> 00:23:27.930 to shift two digital yeah, yeah, the moment you said that I was 309 00:23:27.970 --> 00:23:30.730 like, well, there's an increase in Webin or consumption, but there's also 310 00:23:30.769 --> 00:23:34.529 been a huge increase in Weben or production at the at the same time. 311 00:23:34.650 --> 00:23:41.000 Absolutely there's more to consume there. It's really interesting to have have you share 312 00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:45.799 that on your personal experience listening to podcast because I think they're there, and 313 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:48.680 we were talking about this probably a month ago, that you know, people 314 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:53.880 will get back to consuming probably some more entertainment content and that sort of stuff 315 00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:59.029 to kind of break from news binging and that sort of stuff. And also, 316 00:23:59.390 --> 00:24:03.109 you know, you talked about, unfortunately, the unemployment rate. There 317 00:24:03.309 --> 00:24:06.509 are going to be a lot of people who are either looking for new work 318 00:24:06.630 --> 00:24:10.299 and trying to skill up or people who maybe are a little bit anxious about 319 00:24:10.339 --> 00:24:12.420 what is the future going to hold for my organization. I better skill up 320 00:24:12.500 --> 00:24:17.259 now. So as much as you can deliver that sort of content to the 321 00:24:17.339 --> 00:24:19.380 folks in the niche that you're trying to serve, the better off. I 322 00:24:19.460 --> 00:24:23.019 think you're going to be so to talk a little bit as we round out 323 00:24:23.019 --> 00:24:29.529 the conversation, David, on what marketers can do moving forward with some lightshed 324 00:24:29.730 --> 00:24:33.490 on content consumption through the data you guys are sharing. We talked one about 325 00:24:33.130 --> 00:24:37.759 timing, your follow up cadences, your your follow up, both the context 326 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.839 and and the timing. What are some other things, if there are, 327 00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:45.319 you know a couple things you think beb marketer should take away from this that 328 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:49.200 they could take action on this week, this quarter moving forward? Yeah, 329 00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:55.269 I think realistically, the most important thing that we've been coaching our clients with 330 00:24:55.630 --> 00:24:59.470 is just looking at your content with new eyes as it relates to the world 331 00:24:59.509 --> 00:25:02.910 today. It's likely that you're not going to have to do a rewrite or 332 00:25:03.069 --> 00:25:07.660 reproduce of any video content or a podcast, but you are going to need 333 00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:14.180 to change the context of how you initially present that piece, unless it's extremely 334 00:25:14.259 --> 00:25:18.099 down funnel oriented content, where it is, by our decision, oriented, 335 00:25:18.220 --> 00:25:23.529 only that's different. Everything else from midfunnel and above needs to some how embrace 336 00:25:25.529 --> 00:25:27.769 what's happening in the world without overtly talking about it. We don't need to 337 00:25:27.890 --> 00:25:33.930 consider consistently have COVID and every headline of every white paper or Ebook, which 338 00:25:33.930 --> 00:25:37.319 we do see a ton of, but it's about getting people through this time 339 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:41.680 and becoming a trusted resource for them. And so if that means, you 340 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.519 know, creating a platform where you can lend an ear, and maybe that's 341 00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:52.470 virtual zoom conferences with with your with your prospects or any other form of interactive 342 00:25:52.470 --> 00:25:57.789 content that allows them to engage with your brand, build trust but have some 343 00:25:57.990 --> 00:26:03.390 empathy woven into that, I think that will go a long way. Right 344 00:26:03.470 --> 00:26:06.859 now, the idea that you can take a white paper that you created last 345 00:26:06.900 --> 00:26:10.259 year and just throw it in the marketplace, I think is somewhat to be 346 00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:14.539 debated, if not challenged. There needs to be just some messaging or refresh 347 00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:18.259 but it doesn't need a complete rewrite. But yeah, I think that's that's 348 00:26:18.299 --> 00:26:22.410 huge. Yeah, the other thing that I just want to round things out 349 00:26:22.410 --> 00:26:26.210 with, so we talked about follow up timing. You mentioned not necessarily rewriting 350 00:26:26.250 --> 00:26:30.089 all of your content, but a shift especially to your top of funnel and 351 00:26:30.170 --> 00:26:33.160 mid funnel content in the way that that is delivered in a one way. 352 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:37.400 We've done that cur at sweetfish is, you know, obviously our pillar content 353 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:41.400 is the show, our daily be to be marching show be to be growth 354 00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:45.480 where a podcast agency, so podcasts are pillar content. Just makes sense. 355 00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:49.910 We've never been much in Webinars, but we started doing a monthly zoom call 356 00:26:51.430 --> 00:26:53.710 on bb podcasting, q an a. So we call it a live QNA. 357 00:26:53.910 --> 00:26:56.430 It's essentially a Webinar, but you know, we do we don't like 358 00:26:56.630 --> 00:27:00.309 the way historical webinars have been run. So that's the way we phrase it. 359 00:27:00.460 --> 00:27:04.740 But that's one of the ways that we've shifted some one of our content 360 00:27:04.819 --> 00:27:08.819 formats and it's allowed us to get some more real time engagement those sorts of 361 00:27:08.859 --> 00:27:14.660 things. We've also been doing a monthly mastermind call internally with our customers. 362 00:27:14.740 --> 00:27:17.930 So same sort of thing but on a smaller, more narrow format, and 363 00:27:18.049 --> 00:27:23.289 so we found that just by offering some some different types and exploring some different 364 00:27:23.410 --> 00:27:27.690 delivery mechanisms, we've seen some refreshed engagement. So I would encourage folks on 365 00:27:27.930 --> 00:27:32.920 that. And then the last thing is just that that time of delivery tip. 366 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:37.000 You mentioning Ten am local time Tuesday mornings. For whatever reason. Try 367 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:41.119 that out over the next week and say sort of results, you know work. 368 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:44.710 What's it's laughable when we talk about this, though, because I knew 369 00:27:44.750 --> 00:27:48.789 when we publish this is like the more we circulate nextternalize that we're going to 370 00:27:48.829 --> 00:27:52.509 break that stat unfortunately. Yeah, because everyone's going to use it. To 371 00:27:52.589 --> 00:27:55.109 do it quick. Do it now, but don't do it for the next 372 00:27:55.109 --> 00:27:57.509 quarter because right will it will have changed, just like you know, I'm 373 00:27:57.549 --> 00:28:03.900 sure you guys saw a spike in content with Covid in the headline and then 374 00:28:03.019 --> 00:28:07.140 once that, you know, we got that fatigue. Now I'm I saw 375 00:28:07.259 --> 00:28:11.059 something from I think sales loft that covid and subject lines. This was like 376 00:28:11.259 --> 00:28:17.009 six weeks ago, was already starting to decrease reply rights as opposed to increase 377 00:28:17.049 --> 00:28:18.690 it. So you've got to be Asile, you've got to be moving quickly. 378 00:28:19.130 --> 00:28:22.250 But I think those three tips, as well as the other context that 379 00:28:22.369 --> 00:28:26.410 you shared with the with the data that you guys have unpacked, David, 380 00:28:26.809 --> 00:28:29.960 has been very helpful for listeners. If they want to take next steps, 381 00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:33.240 they want to find the full report or reach out to you or stay connected 382 00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:34.720 with you in the team at netline. What's the best way for them to 383 00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:37.480 do that? Yeah, it's so. For netline itself, just go to 384 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:44.710 netlinecom, an Etli, anycom the reports available right off the home page multiple 385 00:28:44.750 --> 00:28:47.269 places as well, so you can't miss it. We're all over the place 386 00:28:47.349 --> 00:28:51.990 on social but most active on Linkedin and twitter, and then me personally linkedin. 387 00:28:52.589 --> 00:28:55.430 That's probably the best place to hit up. Beyond the report, there's 388 00:28:55.430 --> 00:29:00.019 also an interactive version of the report called audience explorer that allows you to drop 389 00:29:00.140 --> 00:29:04.019 in your own distinct personas, and so if you're a marketer, I don't 390 00:29:04.019 --> 00:29:10.009 know, targeting finance professionals in the manufacturing vertical, you can actually visit that 391 00:29:10.410 --> 00:29:15.930 free. It's completely ungated and see the content consumption behavior actively occurring on the 392 00:29:15.970 --> 00:29:19.490 platform over the past one hundred eighty days and it's a cool way to have 393 00:29:19.609 --> 00:29:25.880 a more live feed version of the static PDF report that we produce on an 394 00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:29.799 annualized basis. So definitely check that out. You don't even become a lead 395 00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:32.319 for us because we don't know who you are, you're not filling out anything, 396 00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:34.599 but our hopes are that you find value in it and would like to 397 00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:37.750 get your content in front of some of those users. Yeah, absolutely, 398 00:29:37.789 --> 00:29:41.390 I mean that sounds very timely right now. I know I just wrote audience 399 00:29:41.470 --> 00:29:45.109 and explore down. Will Link to that in the show notes as well as 400 00:29:45.150 --> 00:29:48.349 the full report. I appreciate you know as much as you guys are all 401 00:29:48.390 --> 00:29:52.019 about the data still having a mixture of dated and ungated content. It's one 402 00:29:52.019 --> 00:29:56.140 of those things that I get pretty passionate about that. Hey, not everything 403 00:29:56.259 --> 00:30:00.059 is meant to be content. Consumption lead straight to a lead into A to 404 00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:03.180 a sales call. So, anyway, gree just you guys are we could 405 00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:06.740 have a whole other with us. Thirty, yes, Oh, yes, 406 00:30:06.940 --> 00:30:08.690 more than thirty for sure. But, David, this has been fantastic. 407 00:30:08.730 --> 00:30:11.450 Thank you so much for joining us on the show. IDEA. Take care. 408 00:30:11.569 --> 00:30:18.410 Thanks. It's sweetish. We're on a mission to create the most helpful 409 00:30:18.529 --> 00:30:22.880 content on the Internet for every job, function and industry on the planet. 410 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:26.119 For the BEB marketing industry, this show is how we're executing on that mission. 411 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.400 If you know a marketing leader, that would be an awesome guest for 412 00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.000 this podcast. Shoot me a text message. Don't call me because I don't 413 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:37.869 answer unknown numbers, but text me at four hundred seven for and I know 414 00:30:37.309 --> 00:30:41.190 three, three, two eight. Just shoot me their name, maybe a 415 00:30:41.230 --> 00:30:44.670 link to their linkedin profile, and I'd love to check them out to see 416 00:30:44.710 --> 00:30:47.910 if we can get them on the show. Thanks a lot. It's sweet 417 00:30:47.950 --> 00:30:52.019 fish. We're on a mission to create the most helpful content on the Internet 418 00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:56.019 for every job function in industry on the planet. For the BEB marketing industry, 419 00:30:56.180 --> 00:31:00.380 this show is how we're executing on that mission. If you know a 420 00:31:00.500 --> 00:31:03.259 marketing leader, that would be an awesome guest for this podcast. Shoot me 421 00:31:03.289 --> 00:31:07.410 a text message. Don't call me because I don't answer unknown numbers, but 422 00:31:07.569 --> 00:31:11.529 text me at four hundred seven for and I know three, three, two 423 00:31:11.569 --> 00:31:14.809 eight. Just shoot me their name, maybe a link to their linkedin profile, 424 00:31:15.009 --> 00:31:17.849 and I'd love to check them out to see if we can get them 425 00:31:17.890 --> 00:31:18.319 on the show. Thanks a lot.