1332: 2 Common Mistakes in B2B Influencer Marketing w/ James Creech

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.919 --> 00:00:07.950 Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm Logan lyles with sweet fish media. 2 00:00:07.990 --> 00:00:11.910 I'm joined today by James Creech. He is the cofounder and CEO over 3 00:00:12.070 --> 00:00:14.910 at Paladin. James, welcome to the show man. We love to get 4 00:00:14.910 --> 00:00:18.350 to know our guests a little bit at the open and something I think tells 5 00:00:18.390 --> 00:00:22.179 you a lot about a person is what is on their home screen of their 6 00:00:22.260 --> 00:00:25.660 phone. What's on your phone right now? Man, thanks, Logan. 7 00:00:25.980 --> 00:00:29.820 Excited to be here. Let's let's take a look. I'm going to pull 8 00:00:29.899 --> 00:00:32.740 open my phone and see what's what are some of the key APPS here? 9 00:00:33.299 --> 00:00:38.130 I mean all the basic utilities right phone, Internet, messaging, books. 10 00:00:38.369 --> 00:00:41.649 I've been a joined a book club during quarantine's reading a bit more, doing 11 00:00:41.649 --> 00:00:46.049 a lot of science fiction. We've got spotify. Let's see, Uber, 12 00:00:46.170 --> 00:00:48.770 lifts, and then we just bought a new house, so I've had the 13 00:00:48.810 --> 00:00:52.679 real TRAPP and Lupnet on the my phone for a while. Makes Sense. 14 00:00:53.200 --> 00:00:56.200 We know you're, you know, a music lover, a book lover and 15 00:00:56.679 --> 00:01:00.000 one of those folks who bounces back and forth between the Uber and lift depending 16 00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:03.280 on what deal they have right that's right in the same boat there, or 17 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:04.829 which car is going to come the fastest. Yeah, right, right, 18 00:01:06.030 --> 00:01:08.390 I'm going to test them out exactly that. And then podcast. Of course, 19 00:01:08.430 --> 00:01:11.709 I've got my podcast APP on the homescreen. To some I was going 20 00:01:11.790 --> 00:01:15.310 to ask if you listen in spotify or if you listen in Apple podcast. 21 00:01:15.469 --> 00:01:19.659 You're an apple podcast user. Right, I am for the most part. 22 00:01:19.819 --> 00:01:22.939 You know, I have been listening to more podcast and spotify recently and actually 23 00:01:22.980 --> 00:01:26.099 kind of like the interface. All the front of my friends when they get 24 00:01:26.099 --> 00:01:29.180 in my car are just that blows their mind that I listen to podcast at 25 00:01:29.260 --> 00:01:33.090 to x feed and now spotify has three x feeds. I've been trying to 26 00:01:33.170 --> 00:01:34.969 work my way up to that. I don't know if I'm going to get 27 00:01:34.969 --> 00:01:37.969 there, but your brain, your brain of APP, so you can get 28 00:01:38.010 --> 00:01:40.609 to to x no problem. Yeah, it's interesting. I saw one of 29 00:01:40.650 --> 00:01:45.890 my favorite Ted talks is about how to have better conversations from Celeste Headley, 30 00:01:46.090 --> 00:01:49.519 and one of the things she talks about is don't let your mind wander when 31 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:53.560 you're in a conversation, because our brains process at about two times the rate 32 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:57.760 of normal speech, and so I was like, oh well, that makes 33 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:00.510 sense. That makes us why I can listen to audio books and podcasts at 34 00:02:00.549 --> 00:02:04.750 too x. Now I'm kind of of a one point five to two axer, 35 00:02:04.909 --> 00:02:08.669 depending on the ratest speech of the presenter or the author or the podcast 36 00:02:08.789 --> 00:02:13.669 host. Yep, but I have to share that three x tidbit with James 37 00:02:13.830 --> 00:02:16.659 R CEO, because he's always pushing the limits of how do I get more 38 00:02:17.060 --> 00:02:21.180 how do I get more content faster? There you go, spotify's got to 39 00:02:21.259 --> 00:02:23.819 cover I love it, man. All right. Well, James, we're 40 00:02:23.819 --> 00:02:27.219 going to be talking about an area of specialty for you and your team, 41 00:02:27.219 --> 00:02:30.090 which is be to be influencer marketing. Tell us a little bit about your 42 00:02:30.210 --> 00:02:36.409 journey and your passion for B Tob influencer marketing and then I think we'll start 43 00:02:36.449 --> 00:02:40.889 the conversation with defining what really is it today. So how did this become 44 00:02:42.090 --> 00:02:45.159 such an area of passion for you and your team? Yeah, for sure. 45 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:46.479 We'll just to give you a little bit of a story. I started 46 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:51.439 my career in Ad Tech Work for a start up here in La for about 47 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:53.840 two and a half years. After that, kind of working with brands and 48 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:59.430 media agencies on the BYSIDE, particularly around video and social media, I went 49 00:02:59.509 --> 00:03:02.030 to the other side of the value chain started working with people who are creating 50 00:03:02.069 --> 00:03:06.990 content. So, for the most part, social media influencers who were building 51 00:03:06.990 --> 00:03:09.590 a career on Youtube, facebook, instagram, you know, these new social 52 00:03:09.629 --> 00:03:14.180 platforms where anyone can be a creator, anyone could reach an audience, and 53 00:03:14.300 --> 00:03:16.180 so we were helping them think through how you develop your career, how do 54 00:03:16.219 --> 00:03:21.419 you work with brands monetize this awesome content that you're producing? But in the 55 00:03:21.460 --> 00:03:24.259 old days, quote unquote, six seven years ago, we were doing everything 56 00:03:24.419 --> 00:03:28.770 by hand, right. How do you find the right influencers, manage those 57 00:03:28.810 --> 00:03:31.849 relationships, run an effective brand campaign, report on that back to an advertiser? 58 00:03:32.289 --> 00:03:37.810 It was all spreadsheets, powerpoint, email, right. And just out 59 00:03:37.849 --> 00:03:40.919 of necessity, we started building some tools, tinkering, trying to find ways 60 00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:45.159 to automate processes that were just sucking up a lot of time for us. 61 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:49.039 And one they just kind of woke up and realized we're not the only ones 62 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:51.240 being in our head against this wall. There's there's got to be, you 63 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:53.599 know, an opportunity here, and so I teamed up with two partners. 64 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:57.870 We Launch Paladin about four and a half years ago, and the whole thesis 65 00:03:57.870 --> 00:04:01.430 is, you know, we're building influencer marketing solutions for really catering to that 66 00:04:01.550 --> 00:04:04.430 supply side of the value chain. Right there's a lot of companies in the 67 00:04:04.509 --> 00:04:09.229 space now. It's had a lot of activity and excitement over the past few 68 00:04:09.270 --> 00:04:12.819 years. Many of them are catering to the demand side. They're getting your 69 00:04:12.860 --> 00:04:18.779 brands of catering to media agencies. Our core customers are influencer agencies, talent 70 00:04:18.819 --> 00:04:24.370 managers, creator networks, traditional media companies, anyone who kind of creates or 71 00:04:24.529 --> 00:04:27.689 represents those on the content side. So that's a little bit about Paladin, 72 00:04:27.769 --> 00:04:30.449 just how we got here in terms of influencer marketing and, you know, 73 00:04:30.769 --> 00:04:36.050 be tob versus B Toc. You know, we are our customer basis be 74 00:04:36.170 --> 00:04:41.839 tob. So it's an enterprise software sale. We identify the customer need, 75 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:45.360 we walk them through our solution, we help them understand, you know, 76 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:47.199 the Rli from from leveraging tools like this, how we going to save you 77 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:49.680 time, how we going to help you win more business? And then they're 78 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:55.389 paying us, you know, a monthly fee or an annual love front based 79 00:04:55.430 --> 00:05:00.829 on an annual commitment. And so while we are a B to be company, 80 00:05:00.069 --> 00:05:05.069 we work with customers that are either bebb or BBC and in the influencer 81 00:05:05.110 --> 00:05:10.620 marketing space. BDC is probably more common. Right. We're used to individual 82 00:05:10.699 --> 00:05:15.699 influencers promoting brands, right, a lot of them consumer brands, with things 83 00:05:15.699 --> 00:05:19.939 that are very kind of BEDC. But there be Tob influencer marketing is how 84 00:05:20.060 --> 00:05:26.250 can I be an expert or an influencer that changes the opinions of people in 85 00:05:26.370 --> 00:05:29.810 the enterprise community? And we can talk a little bit more about what the 86 00:05:29.889 --> 00:05:32.290 differences are with BBC and why. You know, the platforms might be unique. 87 00:05:32.529 --> 00:05:36.040 But that's a bit of an introduction and how we got here. Yeah, 88 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:40.839 absolutely. So tell us a little bit about what be to be influencer 89 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:46.240 marketing looks like today, as you're in the thick of it, connecting influencers 90 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:49.790 with brands, and then kind of how it got to where it is today. 91 00:05:49.870 --> 00:05:53.750 What sure was it look like today and how is it kind of changed 92 00:05:53.790 --> 00:05:56.870 over the last five years or so? So it has has been a pretty 93 00:05:56.870 --> 00:06:00.350 gradual evolution and it hasn't just been five years, right. It's been quite 94 00:06:00.389 --> 00:06:02.750 a long period of time. If you think about a few generations ago. 95 00:06:03.379 --> 00:06:06.860 What was influential? Right, if you were in the B tob space, 96 00:06:08.339 --> 00:06:14.019 how were you reaching, connecting with and engaging the minds of your potential customers. 97 00:06:14.060 --> 00:06:16.860 At that time was probably books, right, it was newspapers and print. 98 00:06:17.569 --> 00:06:21.730 Eventually that evolved into television, right, as a as a very rich 99 00:06:21.810 --> 00:06:27.569 medium for conveying ideas, and all of these have had an evolution as the 100 00:06:27.730 --> 00:06:32.360 Internet emerged and connected more people. It reduced those barriers that allowed anyone to 101 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:38.439 create content, reach an audience monetize that content. So the traditional gatekeepers have 102 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:42.399 been eliminated, and that's as true in v Tob as it has been in 103 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:46.319 DC. Right, we think of the success stories of okay. Now anyone 104 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:48.670 can be a youtube creator and have their own talk show, right, or 105 00:06:49.029 --> 00:06:54.870 anyone can be a podcaster and, you know, replace radio. So that's 106 00:06:55.790 --> 00:06:58.709 it's certainly been true on both sides of the spectrum. But I say, 107 00:06:58.990 --> 00:07:01.819 what is influencer marketing look like today? Well, with the advent of social 108 00:07:01.860 --> 00:07:04.379 media platforms, first you have, you know, blogging, and then you 109 00:07:04.500 --> 00:07:12.540 had kind of websites, but social media like twitter and Linkedin have created this 110 00:07:12.740 --> 00:07:16.089 these new platforms for B Tob influencers to reach their audience. And you know 111 00:07:16.170 --> 00:07:20.129 the extensions of some of these more traditional technologies, right, you have ebooks. 112 00:07:20.209 --> 00:07:25.850 Now anyone can be a self published author and release an Ebook can convey 113 00:07:25.850 --> 00:07:30.879 their ideas, and similarly, people can publish a podcast. I've been podcasting 114 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:32.959 for five years and I've been doing kind of about the same and it started 115 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:36.279 because I was listening to a lot of podcasts, love the format, was 116 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:42.639 having a chance to interview some or have conversations with people with really fascinating backgrounds, 117 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:44.910 and I said I just want to share this with more people, so 118 00:07:44.990 --> 00:07:47.589 I launched my podcast, all things video. So you can see, even 119 00:07:47.629 --> 00:07:51.029 even in my career, that evolution of you know, okay, I want 120 00:07:51.029 --> 00:07:55.949 to find ways to share stories and and build a personal brand and perhaps, 121 00:07:55.990 --> 00:07:59.860 you know, find ways to influence people or share, share the influential stories 122 00:07:59.899 --> 00:08:01.740 of others. Podcasting became a great outlet to do that and me to be 123 00:08:03.300 --> 00:08:07.339 yeah, so let's talk a little bit about some of the differences, because 124 00:08:07.379 --> 00:08:11.459 I think when most people here influencer marketing, our mind goes to, as 125 00:08:11.540 --> 00:08:16.610 you said, those social media celebrities or true celebrities, whatever the real meaning 126 00:08:16.649 --> 00:08:18.569 of celebrity is these days of using air quotes, for sure. Who are 127 00:08:18.649 --> 00:08:24.769 just listening? Representing a direct to consumer brand? What are some characteristics that 128 00:08:26.050 --> 00:08:31.920 differentiate the approach or just what it looks like for influencer marketing in be toob 129 00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:37.200 versus for direct to consumer brands? For sure. Well, the first piece 130 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:41.360 to understand is the difference in audience. Right. So B Toc obviously targeting 131 00:08:41.429 --> 00:08:45.950 that consumer audience, individual users who might be interested in your content or a 132 00:08:46.070 --> 00:08:48.950 product, whatever you're looking to influence. On the B Tob side it tends 133 00:08:48.990 --> 00:08:52.750 to be a smaller, you know, more homogeneous community of people that you 134 00:08:52.870 --> 00:08:56.340 want to to communicate ideas to. Right. Maybe it's everyone in a particular 135 00:08:56.379 --> 00:09:01.779 industry. It's everyone who is relevant to your core products or services. So 136 00:09:03.179 --> 00:09:07.860 understanding the difference in the audience is the first piece, because that then influences 137 00:09:07.059 --> 00:09:11.049 which platforms are important for you. Right. Where does that audience already live 138 00:09:11.450 --> 00:09:15.570 and for be to be? You know in my experience in our industry, 139 00:09:15.970 --> 00:09:20.129 that tends to be on twitter and Linkedin in. Twitter certainly does have more 140 00:09:20.169 --> 00:09:26.159 of a BBC approach as well, but for things you know, like sports 141 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:28.879 and politics and news. But if you really want to be perceived as a 142 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:33.600 thought leader, communicate ideas, comment on things that are happening, twitter is 143 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:37.710 a great microblogging platform to do that and reach an audience and scale and has, 144 00:09:37.870 --> 00:09:41.909 you know, effectively possession itself as one of those be to be thought 145 00:09:41.950 --> 00:09:46.149 leadership places. Similarly, linked in, right, it's probably the core of 146 00:09:46.190 --> 00:09:50.950 the dominant be the B Social Platform. Right, when you think about where 147 00:09:50.990 --> 00:09:56.860 are people engaging with colleagues, connections, professional relationships, Linkedin is the primary 148 00:09:56.899 --> 00:10:01.700 destination. I mean, it's probably no accident that that Microsoft acquired the company 149 00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:05.700 and strengthened it's be to be position of portfolio brands. It makes sense, 150 00:10:05.779 --> 00:10:11.570 right. And so for Linkedin, you're already there to engage with people that 151 00:10:11.610 --> 00:10:16.970 you want to keep connected with, share updates and news, and now influencers 152 00:10:16.049 --> 00:10:20.799 are, you know, communicating information via updates, sharing links, presentations, 153 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:24.240 you know, even doing video and live streaming, which has become a way 154 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.840 to connect with people. So that's kind of the second pillar, right, 155 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.440 which is where, what are the platforms? Where are people today? Aside 156 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:35.990 from the social platforms? Again, ebooks and podcasts are are another area in 157 00:10:35.070 --> 00:10:39.029 which I think, people can publish content and you can be influential. So 158 00:10:39.149 --> 00:10:41.789 those are really important to keep in mind as part of the mix. And 159 00:10:41.909 --> 00:10:46.230 then the last piece is strategy. Right. So the way that you engage 160 00:10:46.269 --> 00:10:48.429 a beb audience is very different than, you know, what you might do 161 00:10:48.509 --> 00:10:52.500 if you're just trying to entertain or educate people in more of a BBC format. 162 00:10:52.820 --> 00:10:58.100 You know, not to say that be to be content shouldn't be entertaining 163 00:10:58.220 --> 00:11:01.419 and perhaps educational, but I think the approach is different. Right, the 164 00:11:01.460 --> 00:11:05.129 strategies you're going to focus on are going to be more specific. I think 165 00:11:05.250 --> 00:11:09.610 you know, the number one thing that we see works on these platforms is 166 00:11:09.250 --> 00:11:13.929 thought leadership and leading with value, right, not just the old sales tactics 167 00:11:15.009 --> 00:11:18.879 of I'm going to talk about myself all the time, but really highlight, 168 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.720 you know, some of the key trends happening in your industry. Create this 169 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:26.320 persona and make sure that your constant reflects something that people would actually want to 170 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:30.799 read, so that when they think of you know, things that are happening 171 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:35.070 in your space, they associate your name, your brand, with that and 172 00:11:35.549 --> 00:11:37.990 and then that's just going to, you know, position you as an influencer 173 00:11:39.070 --> 00:11:41.909 so that when they have a need for a product or service like that, 174 00:11:41.110 --> 00:11:46.110 you offer you'll be tough of mine, given you've been publishing valuable content that 175 00:11:46.230 --> 00:11:48.860 they've been seeking at anyway, yeah, so where I want to go from 176 00:11:48.860 --> 00:11:52.899 here, James, is really the how it's usually my favor at part of 177 00:11:52.940 --> 00:11:56.620 these conversations and I love for my own sake as a podcast host, because 178 00:11:56.620 --> 00:12:01.809 I get to learn how people are doing things and share that with our listeners. 179 00:12:01.850 --> 00:12:05.809 And I've really got kind of three remaining questions for you. How should 180 00:12:05.809 --> 00:12:09.730 a brand determine if influencer marketing is going to be right for them as a 181 00:12:09.809 --> 00:12:13.889 be to be brand? If so, how should they get started? And 182 00:12:13.970 --> 00:12:16.360 then three, how should they measure the impact? Let's start with the the 183 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:20.840 first one, determining if, if it is the right strategy for them. 184 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:26.919 Are there certain characteristics that you look at for a company to determine is influencer 185 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:31.029 marketing the right fit for this bb brand? So the key thing to start 186 00:12:31.070 --> 00:12:35.269 with is identifying your goals right, understanding what are the Kpis, are the 187 00:12:35.309 --> 00:12:37.830 outcomes that we want to achieve, and if those seem to align nicely with 188 00:12:37.950 --> 00:12:43.620 influencer marketing, whether that's building awareness, positioning yourself more as the thought leader, 189 00:12:45.139 --> 00:12:50.379 trying to even optimize for down full metrics like conversions or sales or clicksto 190 00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:54.500 website, influencer marketing can be a good fit, especially in a world in 191 00:12:54.539 --> 00:12:56.779 which people are just inundated with ads. A lot of the traditional or the 192 00:12:56.860 --> 00:13:01.289 older methods of reaching audience just don't work or as are less effective than they 193 00:13:01.289 --> 00:13:03.610 used to be. So if you think about the the client and print media 194 00:13:03.610 --> 00:13:09.330 or television and you you've embraced maybe digital and that's worked for you and you 195 00:13:09.370 --> 00:13:13.000 want to lean into more constant marketing or organic marketing formats, influencer marketing can 196 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:16.679 be a great fit, whether that's, you know, working with influencers who 197 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:20.960 already have an establish audience that you know reach the people you want to connect 198 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:24.919 with, or if you're trying to build yourself as the influencer right, whether 199 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.909 that's you or your brand. You're trying to develop more influence on a platforms 200 00:13:28.909 --> 00:13:33.789 that we discussed. So start there. The next thing is test and learn, 201 00:13:33.830 --> 00:13:35.230 right I mean the kind of the lean start, a model of take 202 00:13:35.269 --> 00:13:39.669 a small budget, take some time and experiment, see if this is something 203 00:13:39.710 --> 00:13:43.659 that will work for your audience and do some competitive analysis. What are your 204 00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:46.500 competitors doing in the space? If they've tried influencer marketing and it's worked, 205 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:50.259 maybe you can replicate that. And there's some pitfalls you can avoid and maybe, 206 00:13:50.259 --> 00:13:52.980 if it hasn't worked for them, identify, Hey, is our brain 207 00:13:54.100 --> 00:13:56.730 going to be something similar where we can avoid that issue, or maybe they 208 00:13:56.769 --> 00:14:00.889 didn't execute on it well and now this is an opportunity because no one else 209 00:14:00.929 --> 00:14:03.250 in our space is really taken to to be to be influence marketing yet. 210 00:14:03.289 --> 00:14:07.649 So yeah, we're something right there, because you guys work with a lot 211 00:14:07.690 --> 00:14:11.360 of different brands and I think failure often is the the gold where we can 212 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:16.480 find the most valuable lessons are. There's some common pitfalls that you see be 213 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:20.720 to be brands kind of making their first fora out into influencer marketing, specifically 214 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.710 in be to be, that are pretty common. What are some of those 215 00:14:24.070 --> 00:14:28.070 top mistakes or pitfalls that you're trying to help your clients avoid right? Sure, 216 00:14:28.070 --> 00:14:31.789 yeah, it's a few things. You know. Number one is really 217 00:14:33.350 --> 00:14:37.990 identify what moves the needle. I think early in the early days of influencer 218 00:14:37.029 --> 00:14:41.899 marketing it was too easy to say, okay, well, let's let's get 219 00:14:41.899 --> 00:14:45.100 a lot of viewership and impressions and engagements right and maybe these are the things 220 00:14:45.139 --> 00:14:48.580 that were important for our paid media spends and we're going to try and see 221 00:14:48.620 --> 00:14:52.539 if we can replicate that with our organic influence, our activities. At the 222 00:14:52.580 --> 00:14:54.690 end of the day, sometimes, you know, those are just vanity metrics. 223 00:14:54.730 --> 00:14:58.009 Sometimes that's not what actually is going to deliver results. So be very 224 00:14:58.090 --> 00:15:03.809 clear about okay, you know, maybe these these top level metrics are valuable 225 00:15:03.850 --> 00:15:07.009 in some way, but we need to ultimately that needs to boil down to, 226 00:15:07.090 --> 00:15:09.399 you know, an end result. What is what is the marketing? 227 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:15.039 What is it going to achieve for us? That's number one. Number two. 228 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:18.440 The other mistakes I think we see bb brands make is is they try 229 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.909 and jump into it without maybe doing the homework or finding a trusted guide. 230 00:15:22.950 --> 00:15:26.149 If it's your first time out of the gate, you know, don't try 231 00:15:26.190 --> 00:15:30.629 to do it all yourself. It can be overwhelming. You don't know who 232 00:15:30.750 --> 00:15:33.470 maybe the right influencers are. Find an agency that can guide you through it. 233 00:15:33.549 --> 00:15:37.980 There are dedicated specialist influencer agencies that do incredible work. Many of them 234 00:15:39.019 --> 00:15:41.259 are are customers right we we try to make their lives easier. So whether 235 00:15:41.299 --> 00:15:46.100 it's, you know, leaning on an agency partner that has expertise or finding 236 00:15:46.100 --> 00:15:48.740 a software solution that's going to save you the time and and you know, 237 00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:52.210 maybe to provide some of that expertise as well is a great way to start, 238 00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:54.169 rather than just venturing out into the Wilderness and, you know, spending 239 00:15:54.169 --> 00:15:56.370 a little bit of money or time and it doesn't work and you know you 240 00:15:56.450 --> 00:16:00.129 get frustrated. Find someone who can help you, you know, really be 241 00:16:00.210 --> 00:16:04.320 successful in this field. I love but what are some of the the ways 242 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:11.279 that you're advising your customers, or your customers customers to find the right influencers? 243 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:15.080 Is it all about reach, or is it maybe a little bit easier 244 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:18.789 in be tob because, like you said, you're trying to reach a smaller 245 00:16:18.830 --> 00:16:22.509 niche and more targeted niche and you know exactly who those people are right whether 246 00:16:22.549 --> 00:16:26.350 you're talking about Linkedin ads or just organic linkedin content, there's just so much 247 00:16:26.389 --> 00:16:32.669 visibility into who your audience is. What are the key characteristics? Is it 248 00:16:32.710 --> 00:16:34.620 all about reach? Is it the right audience? Is it the right person 249 00:16:34.779 --> 00:16:37.460 that matches with your brand values? Is it make sure of all three of 250 00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:41.899 those? How do you prioritize finding that right influencer? I know it's a 251 00:16:41.899 --> 00:16:45.899 bit of a loaded question and you got thirty minute answer. It's all of 252 00:16:45.980 --> 00:16:48.730 the above and more right I would say it's really a blend of art and 253 00:16:48.850 --> 00:16:52.929 science. There's a component where the data will absolutely inform who you're looking for, 254 00:16:52.210 --> 00:16:56.730 and that can be, you know, the the social metrics froms of 255 00:16:56.730 --> 00:17:00.409 followers and Prussians, reach engagement's right. There's a whole laundry list of valuable 256 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:03.480 metrics that you can evaluate. But at the end of the day there's also 257 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:08.799 the kind of the qualitative human element of does this person's values align with my 258 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:12.839 brand? Do they's create the type of content that will resonate with my audience? 259 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:17.309 And so the way that we approach it right and building software to help 260 00:17:17.670 --> 00:17:21.589 he's influencer marketing headaches is okay. Number One. Can we can we take 261 00:17:21.710 --> 00:17:25.029 the data and eliminate the top part of the funnel and just streamline what you're 262 00:17:25.069 --> 00:17:30.740 looking at so very quickly unqualify maybe the types of influencers that won't be a 263 00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:33.380 good fit and then you can go through and screen. They're still going to 264 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:37.819 be that human review of okay, does this content align with what we're looking 265 00:17:37.900 --> 00:17:41.500 for again to do? Does this do the values and the the type of 266 00:17:41.539 --> 00:17:45.890 messaging that are evoked in the content this this influencer creates? Does that map 267 00:17:45.970 --> 00:17:48.490 to how we want to portray our brand. That's the best way to start. 268 00:17:49.250 --> 00:17:52.170 But, James, as we round out the conversation today, are there 269 00:17:52.329 --> 00:17:59.799 any resources that you recommend consistently to clients or your agency partners that folks who 270 00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:03.759 want to go a little bit deeper in understanding be to be influencer marketing and 271 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:07.240 what that would look like for their brand? Any common recommendations, either books 272 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:12.750 or podcasts or or blogs that you follow that you would recommend to listeners today? 273 00:18:12.750 --> 00:18:15.789 Yeah, there are so many good resources out there right. I mean 274 00:18:15.829 --> 00:18:21.470 it's hard to give you a comprehensive overview, but I would say you know, 275 00:18:21.589 --> 00:18:23.549 certainly great podcast. I've been podcasting, as I mentioned, for five 276 00:18:23.549 --> 00:18:29.180 years all things video. I interview thought leaders and experts in the digital marketing 277 00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:33.299 space and that certainly includes influencer marketing but also extends to gaming and Esports, 278 00:18:33.339 --> 00:18:37.259 at music, anything in the digital media sphere. So great way that kind 279 00:18:37.259 --> 00:18:41.769 of learned from other experts in the category. Aside from that, the other 280 00:18:41.970 --> 00:18:45.609 there are some really smart people in our space posting things on Linkedin. Big 281 00:18:45.690 --> 00:18:48.170 Fan of what Fil Ranta and running Gahan Post around influencer marketing. I think 282 00:18:48.170 --> 00:18:52.529 they're some sharp voices on the on the subject, people of course take to 283 00:18:52.650 --> 00:18:55.210 twitter and Youtube as well. You can. You can follow some great content 284 00:18:55.289 --> 00:18:59.559 there. There are a number of really good books and resources on the subject. 285 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:02.880 You know, I guess the the one that immediately comes to mind is 286 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:06.839 for maybe a lay audience or someone who's new to the space, and this 287 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:10.309 is a bit more BC leaning, but but Robert Kensel, the chief business 288 00:19:10.349 --> 00:19:12.430 officer of Youtube, wrote a book called the Stream Punks, I believe, 289 00:19:12.470 --> 00:19:17.910 and it's all about the youtube kind of revolution and how that then led to 290 00:19:18.069 --> 00:19:23.109 other social platforms creating these places of influence for this next generation. So, 291 00:19:23.619 --> 00:19:26.900 you know, I would just seek out a lot of great resources out there 292 00:19:27.140 --> 00:19:32.700 and and you know, hope that that's useful for people listening. Yeah, 293 00:19:32.740 --> 00:19:34.940 absolutely. So we've got we've got a book, we've got some folks to 294 00:19:36.019 --> 00:19:37.690 follow on Linkedin. If you miss those, just hit the back button a 295 00:19:37.769 --> 00:19:41.769 couple of times, depending on which player you're in, if that's the thirty 296 00:19:41.849 --> 00:19:45.769 second back or the fifteen second back again. But thanks for those resources, 297 00:19:45.809 --> 00:19:48.450 James. If anyone listening would like to reach out and ask any follow up 298 00:19:48.450 --> 00:19:52.730 questions of you or stay connected, what would be the best way for them 299 00:19:52.769 --> 00:19:55.359 to go about doing that. Is that Linkedin? Is it twitter? What's 300 00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:57.480 the best route to get in touch with you? Yeah, Linkedin is far 301 00:19:57.519 --> 00:20:00.000 and away where I spend the most time. So feel free to connect with 302 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.079 me or follow me on Linkedin. Again, maybe the podcast, so you 303 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.950 can subscribe to all things video for for updates there. I'm not personally on 304 00:20:07.990 --> 00:20:11.390 twitter. I probably should be, but you know Mudicula. And then, 305 00:20:11.789 --> 00:20:15.630 yeah, if you're interested to learn more about Paladin, we're Paladin softwarecom. 306 00:20:15.349 --> 00:20:19.750 Again, it's a Paladin, he aladi and softwarecom and we also have a 307 00:20:21.029 --> 00:20:25.180 social analytic school for publishers, Rans and creators called measure studio, and that's 308 00:20:25.220 --> 00:20:27.140 just measure dot studio. Another great way just to learn a little bit more 309 00:20:27.140 --> 00:20:30.140 about what we're up to and find ways connect. I love it, James. 310 00:20:30.299 --> 00:20:33.180 Thank you so much, man. It was great to get to know 311 00:20:33.259 --> 00:20:37.130 you here a few weeks ago and great to connect again and share with listeners. 312 00:20:37.130 --> 00:20:38.769 Appreciate you be in our guest today. Likewise, Logan, it's been 313 00:20:38.769 --> 00:20:48.970 a blast. Thanks so much. Hey, everybody, logan with sweet fish 314 00:20:48.009 --> 00:20:52.640 here. If you're a regular listener of BB growth, you know that I'm 315 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:55.559 one of the cohosts of this show, but you may not know that I 316 00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:59.119 also head up the sales team here at sweetfish. So for those of you 317 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.920 in sales or sales offs, I wanted to take a second to share something 318 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:07.630 that's made us insanely more efficient lately. Our team has been using lead Iq 319 00:21:07.869 --> 00:21:11.910 for the past few months and what used to take us four hours gathering contact 320 00:21:11.950 --> 00:21:15.589 data now takes us only one. We're seventy five percent more efficient. We're 321 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:22.019 able to move faster without bound prospecting and organizing our campaigns is so much easier 322 00:21:22.099 --> 00:21:25.980 than before. I'd highly suggest you guys check out lead Iq as well. 323 00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:32.700 You can check them out at lead iqcom. That's Elle a d iqcom. 324 00:21:34.650 --> 00:21:40.569 Gary v says it all the time and we agree. Every company should think 325 00:21:40.609 --> 00:21:45.490 of themselves as a media company first, then whatever it is they actually do. 326 00:21:45.250 --> 00:21:48.119 If you know this is true, but your team is already maxed out 327 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:52.119 and you can't produce any more content in house, we can help. We 328 00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:56.240 produce podcasts for some of the most innovative bb brands in the world and we 329 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:00.910 also help them turn the content from the podcast into blog posts, micro videos 330 00:22:00.990 --> 00:22:04.309 and slide decks that work really well on linked in. If you want to 331 00:22:04.309 --> 00:22:11.150 learn more, go to sweetfish Mediacom launch or email logan at sweetphish Mediacom