1335: 3 Areas Where Agility Leads to ABM Success w/ Colm Shalvey

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:08.429 Welcome back to be to be growth. I'm looking lyles with sweet fish media, 2 00:00:08.589 --> 00:00:11.910 your host for today's episode. I'm joined today by column, shall they? 3 00:00:12.029 --> 00:00:15.550 He is the head of ABM over at trip actions column. Welcome to 4 00:00:15.589 --> 00:00:17.829 the show. How's it going to day? Man, it's great. It's 5 00:00:17.829 --> 00:00:20.550 great to be here. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely we're going to 6 00:00:20.589 --> 00:00:25.260 be talking about why you need to be agile with your abmmotions and what that 7 00:00:25.379 --> 00:00:29.940 really looks like when you move that way with your ABM campaigns. But before 8 00:00:29.980 --> 00:00:32.659 that we love to get to know our guests a little bit calm. So, 9 00:00:33.100 --> 00:00:35.299 you know, one of the things I think that tells you a lot 10 00:00:35.340 --> 00:00:38.770 about a person is maybe their taste in music. Is there a spotify playlist 11 00:00:39.130 --> 00:00:44.649 that has been your Goto during this time of social distancing, isolation and quarantine 12 00:00:44.689 --> 00:00:47.890 during the pandemic? There hasn't, but what there has been is so I 13 00:00:47.929 --> 00:00:51.320 have a fourteen year old step daughter and she lives on Tick Tock, so 14 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:55.039 I have now built out my music taste to include all these songs from Tick 15 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:57.920 Tock. So I am, I like to say I'm very hip and cool. 16 00:00:58.359 --> 00:01:00.280 She disagrees, but I feel I'm very forward when it comes to my 17 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:03.629 music taste at this point. I love it, Manna, I love that 18 00:01:03.750 --> 00:01:07.469 peek into your world. We're all dealing with different family dynamics, different everything 19 00:01:07.590 --> 00:01:12.590 these days, but one thing that you are very passionate about in having a 20 00:01:12.670 --> 00:01:17.469 lot of experience in ABM, is that you need to be agile, you 21 00:01:17.629 --> 00:01:22.659 have to have a dynamic approach and nowhere or no time, I think, 22 00:01:23.060 --> 00:01:26.540 has that been more important than in two thousand and twenty. So to give 23 00:01:26.540 --> 00:01:29.859 us a little bit of content texting, why this is something that you're so 24 00:01:30.099 --> 00:01:34.090 passionate about as we kick off this conversation, about how other marketing teams can 25 00:01:34.250 --> 00:01:38.290 take an actual approach to their ABM efforts. Absolutely yeah, so, I 26 00:01:38.409 --> 00:01:41.730 mean ABM my journey and there has, you know, I started at the 27 00:01:42.209 --> 00:01:46.049 really traditional end of you know, there's ten strategical accounts at next week right 28 00:01:46.129 --> 00:01:49.920 where, you know, hyper focused massive accounts. But what's really happened and 29 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:53.200 then, as I've paid attention to, is technology has allowed us to scale 30 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:57.159 ABM right. So now we can reach far more counts, you know, 31 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.560 at a far better and more efficient rate than we ever could before, and 32 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:04.189 we start to blur the line between ABM and traditionals of Managem and how do 33 00:02:04.269 --> 00:02:07.189 we kind of cut that? And for me that's where, you know, 34 00:02:07.310 --> 00:02:09.430 being dynamic and Agile has kind of, you know, become the way to 35 00:02:09.469 --> 00:02:13.550 go forth. Right. So, for example, a team like ours, 36 00:02:13.590 --> 00:02:16.300 we have commercial, Mid Marketing Enterprise, and I've did very different strategies for 37 00:02:16.340 --> 00:02:21.300 you to those segments. But when we talk commercial, you're talking to threezero 38 00:02:21.620 --> 00:02:23.620 target accounts. Right. We have a lot of reps, we have a 39 00:02:23.659 --> 00:02:25.780 lot of volume and there's a you know, there's a very quick turnaround there 40 00:02:25.819 --> 00:02:30.810 on those kind of transactions. So I'm not going to go after threezero accounts 41 00:02:30.849 --> 00:02:32.729 all the time. Right. It's in efficient, doesn't cost it, you 42 00:02:32.810 --> 00:02:37.289 know, and also just doesn't make sense from a business perspective. Right, 43 00:02:38.009 --> 00:02:39.969 even on the enterprise side, with clients that will have a two or three 44 00:02:39.969 --> 00:02:43.409 year contracts, right, and sometimes we will have to them, sometimes we 45 00:02:43.449 --> 00:02:46.080 won't. But what we want to make sure we do is when an account, 46 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:51.240 when you know an organization is in that buy and cycling that research cycle, 47 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:53.199 how do we make sure that we maximizer and back and get in front 48 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:55.840 of them, right, and that's where being agile dynamic for US comes in 49 00:02:57.400 --> 00:02:59.629 and we use that, you know, with the tools we have. But 50 00:03:00.150 --> 00:03:04.389 I mean, ultimately the concept is, if you're interested in what we're selling, 51 00:03:04.550 --> 00:03:07.310 how do I make sure that you are messaging is what you see first 52 00:03:07.349 --> 00:03:12.110 and foremost right and consistently across persona as except eat, and that's what kind 53 00:03:12.110 --> 00:03:14.699 of been my focus over the course of years. But I think, as 54 00:03:14.740 --> 00:03:17.419 you alluded to, hyper focused here in the time of Covid in two thousand 55 00:03:17.419 --> 00:03:22.580 and twenty, as we've kind of just had to also respond to incredibly changing 56 00:03:22.659 --> 00:03:28.770 market conditions on literally a weekly basis. Yeah, especially being a travel focused 57 00:03:28.849 --> 00:03:31.770 company, with everything that's gone on this year, I'm sure that being agile 58 00:03:31.889 --> 00:03:35.930 beyond just abm has been, you know, just the name of the game. 59 00:03:35.969 --> 00:03:38.770 It's the IT's front and Center for you guys every every day you wake 60 00:03:38.770 --> 00:03:43.719 up in the morning. What do you think it looks like to to be 61 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:49.319 agile with your ABM campaigns versus not during kind of normal times or during the 62 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:53.000 midst of a pandemic? What are some of those characteristics where you see okay, 63 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:58.030 this is this is clues to me that there is not an actual approach 64 00:03:58.069 --> 00:04:00.590 to abm within this organization. And then the flip side of that. What 65 00:04:00.710 --> 00:04:04.710 are some of the the counterpoints where you you see, okay, they are 66 00:04:04.750 --> 00:04:09.469 going about it the right way. There is this adule approach to ABM. 67 00:04:09.830 --> 00:04:13.699 Yeah, so, just coming from my experience what we've done. So there's 68 00:04:13.699 --> 00:04:15.259 two layers, right. So first of all, I'm very data driven, 69 00:04:15.300 --> 00:04:18.019 right. So the more data I can get the better. So for us 70 00:04:18.060 --> 00:04:23.180 that means when I have a platform, we use terminus for a game platform, 71 00:04:23.379 --> 00:04:25.930 we in a great bumb, or we integrate our website activity, we 72 00:04:26.050 --> 00:04:29.889 in great sales activity. So I use all those signals as triggers, right. 73 00:04:29.930 --> 00:04:31.569 So when I build an account funnel, you know, the ones that 74 00:04:31.649 --> 00:04:36.290 are showing no activity anywhere are off the funnel. Those are showing third party 75 00:04:36.370 --> 00:04:40.199 intent by a bumb or are just starting the research phase. So I have 76 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:43.800 a plan of action to go after those kind of accounts. Those that are 77 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:46.360 engaging on the website, right, so they're they're down to that vender selection 78 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:49.600 process. I have a very different set of tactics for their where I'm really 79 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:53.550 trying to influence them, make them take that step of filling out the form, 80 00:04:53.709 --> 00:04:57.269 the DEMO, we used to erect, mail, etc. And then 81 00:04:57.350 --> 00:05:00.709 sales activity. That's where we get a lot more, you know, target 82 00:05:00.709 --> 00:05:03.029 in focus. So that's very personalized. That's one to one. You know, 83 00:05:03.069 --> 00:05:05.949 sometimes will specific landing pages built for an account. Sometimes we'll do, 84 00:05:06.379 --> 00:05:10.019 you know, very fancy direct mail, which we've had to pivot on that 85 00:05:10.100 --> 00:05:13.660 because you can't mail anything to an office these as for obvious reasons. So 86 00:05:13.779 --> 00:05:15.620 that's kind of where we look at it from the count perspective. When I'm 87 00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:20.259 looking into an account, things change drastically. So we are a leading travel 88 00:05:20.339 --> 00:05:25.089 and expense managin platform, right. So you know there's the traditional personas that 89 00:05:25.129 --> 00:05:30.290 we go after. Finance people in travel operation sometimes leads that, but as 90 00:05:30.329 --> 00:05:32.410 we get into covid all of a sudden hr NOWs involves right, so they 91 00:05:32.490 --> 00:05:35.519 have a hand in the decision because all of a sudden duty of care, 92 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:40.680 which was always kind of a thing that was a secondary, tertiary consideration, 93 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:43.959 is primary. Right. Like when we talk about travel, we have to 94 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:46.680 think about safety first and foremost, and that's where HR and some of those 95 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:50.350 people, people titles now I'll, come into play. So how do we 96 00:05:50.870 --> 00:05:55.149 pivot our message? How do we kind of address those folks? Give them 97 00:05:55.189 --> 00:05:58.750 content, to give them things. I add value and that's kind of just 98 00:05:58.910 --> 00:06:02.110 a brief kind of overview of like how we are Agile, kind of on 99 00:06:02.230 --> 00:06:06.220 a going forward basis, but also how we pivot based on outsee conditions that 100 00:06:06.339 --> 00:06:11.740 no one could have predicted. There's also what's interesting about interesting? This probably 101 00:06:11.860 --> 00:06:15.220 two nice of a word, but what's interesting about the covid challenge, right, 102 00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:19.410 is it had it's not a single event, right. So when this 103 00:06:19.529 --> 00:06:24.930 all started happening to March, you know, we there was expectations within the 104 00:06:24.970 --> 00:06:27.610 US and you know I my familys and our own, that this would be 105 00:06:27.649 --> 00:06:30.410 a month, two months, maybe three, right. But then, as 106 00:06:30.449 --> 00:06:32.199 we've kind of gone forward, I mean that that timelines changed, right, 107 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:36.639 and now we're in this position where things are still unknown and unsure. So 108 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:40.079 it's like how do we want out? You know, it's one thing I 109 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:42.120 have a message, I says, Hey, you're going to be traveling six 110 00:06:42.199 --> 00:06:44.560 weeks, right, you want to make sure you're ready, you're safe, 111 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:46.269 you're all those things right, and that was what we wanted to make sure 112 00:06:46.269 --> 00:06:48.949 that we got our clients. We did it for our customers, but also 113 00:06:49.110 --> 00:06:53.269 prospects. All of a sudden, six weeks later, it's like you're probably 114 00:06:53.269 --> 00:06:56.110 not traveling yet and now. Okay, so here the things that you need 115 00:06:56.230 --> 00:06:58.709 do to put in place right. So how do you make sure that you 116 00:06:58.870 --> 00:07:01.980 travel, manage platforms ready, that you have your your people on board so 117 00:07:02.060 --> 00:07:05.339 when they do travel they're already in the system? How do you screamline your 118 00:07:05.379 --> 00:07:09.779 expense for process, all these kind of other things. So again, the 119 00:07:09.899 --> 00:07:14.500 message changes with time because we are adapting to a an event that does not 120 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:17.410 have a exact horizon, right, which is, yeah, again a challenge, 121 00:07:17.449 --> 00:07:20.250 which is why I can't you know, this is the plan for the 122 00:07:20.290 --> 00:07:25.050 next three quarters, right, but just isn't a fusible approach to right, 123 00:07:25.129 --> 00:07:28.610 you know today's environment. Yeah, so I would say one of those tipoffs 124 00:07:28.649 --> 00:07:30.720 to we're not being actual as this is our plan for the next three quarters. 125 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:33.759 You know, the antithesis of what you just said, and the way 126 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:38.920 I kind of break it down column is you talked about being agile in three 127 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:44.279 key areas. One was based on the stage of the account based on that 128 00:07:44.389 --> 00:07:47.750 engagement, third party engagement, direct engagement, sales engagement. So that would 129 00:07:47.750 --> 00:07:51.629 be one. Shifting your tactics and your messaging based on the stage. there. 130 00:07:51.949 --> 00:07:56.470 Number two would be if you're buy or persona shifts and you need to 131 00:07:56.790 --> 00:07:59.860 start to engage a different buyer, persona that is either, you know, 132 00:07:59.980 --> 00:08:03.259 climbing in importance in the decision making process or new to the decision making process, 133 00:08:03.379 --> 00:08:07.860 like in your instance. And then, third, based on market conditions 134 00:08:07.899 --> 00:08:11.620 and how those are changing, and nowhere has there been as much change as 135 00:08:11.740 --> 00:08:15.649 in this year, but even outside of a pandemic, that is something important 136 00:08:15.689 --> 00:08:18.769 to keep in mind. I'd like to talk a little bit more about that 137 00:08:18.810 --> 00:08:22.730 first one, because I think that applies whether you're in a space that shifting 138 00:08:22.930 --> 00:08:26.199 so much, like you guys are in travel, or in somewhere else where 139 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:31.079 the direct impact isn't being felt as much, and that's those stages. So 140 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:35.039 you mentioned like not using the same tactics if they're at that third party intent 141 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:39.679 kind of early stage, versus, you know, on the website, versus 142 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:43.190 sales. Can you tell us a little bit of maybe where you've seen some 143 00:08:43.309 --> 00:08:48.149 pitfalls of using the wrong channel or the wrong messaging based on where they're at 144 00:08:48.350 --> 00:08:50.629 in their engagement stages there? Yeah, I mean, I think so. 145 00:08:52.029 --> 00:08:56.259 The first thing is it's very easy to say that we should use intent right, 146 00:08:56.340 --> 00:09:00.220 but what I've found is it's really worth taking the time to identify what 147 00:09:00.419 --> 00:09:03.299 is real and ten versus noise. So, but boors are example. Right, 148 00:09:03.340 --> 00:09:07.820 they track literally thousands of topics and when they do an analysis for every 149 00:09:07.820 --> 00:09:11.250 client, which was what they do, they tell you here are the topics 150 00:09:11.289 --> 00:09:16.049 that your perspective, customers are surging on when before they become customers, and 151 00:09:16.370 --> 00:09:20.490 you will see that you'll get a hundred, two hundred different hits. There's 152 00:09:20.529 --> 00:09:22.850 no way that all of those are relevant, right, there's so many things 153 00:09:22.850 --> 00:09:26.679 are happening at the same time. They're that again, are just noise. 154 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:30.519 So taking the time to identify what real and ten. So we track about 155 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:33.440 fourteen topics today. You know, some of those are general topics, but 156 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:37.440 then some are specific custom competitors. We also work with them to actually add 157 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:41.669 our own brand as a trackable topic, which took a little while, but 158 00:09:41.710 --> 00:09:43.830 we got that. But then, so I track fourteen topics, but I 159 00:09:45.029 --> 00:09:48.750 only actually make decisions off of for right. So I take the ones that 160 00:09:48.789 --> 00:09:52.549 are most aligned with our business. The other ones are important, but they're 161 00:09:52.590 --> 00:09:56.379 more tertiary. So it's like if you're showing interest in business travel management, 162 00:09:56.419 --> 00:10:00.899 for example, and you're showing interest in Xy Z that's you know. That 163 00:10:01.059 --> 00:10:03.299 helps the rep kind of target their messaging. It also helps me target my 164 00:10:03.379 --> 00:10:07.690 messaging when I'm saying, okay, their business travel management and expense management. 165 00:10:07.730 --> 00:10:09.570 All right, this is this is a finance approach. I want to kind 166 00:10:09.570 --> 00:10:15.210 of drill into you. Basically, look get those top for to determine their 167 00:10:15.250 --> 00:10:18.250 overall engagement rate, but you look at the other ten, not to determine 168 00:10:18.289 --> 00:10:22.320 where they're at, but to determine how do we customize the messaging based on 169 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:26.639 where they're at for those, those key for that you're looking at exactly they 170 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:31.159 totally is. So think of the four is kind of the those are binary, 171 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:33.799 you're interested or not interested, and the others are how do I then 172 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:37.350 message you, you know, because again, trial management. Of course we're 173 00:10:37.429 --> 00:10:41.429 trial measurement company. All our messaging has an element of that. But how 174 00:10:41.429 --> 00:10:43.990 do we really tweak it to make it specific to that account and hit, 175 00:10:43.269 --> 00:10:46.269 hopefully, what we assume of their pain points? Give them their search stream 176 00:10:46.590 --> 00:10:50.139 and then we kind of do the same at increasing levels of granularity down the 177 00:10:50.179 --> 00:10:54.340 funnel. Right. So website. What what acids are they engaging with? 178 00:10:54.460 --> 00:11:00.019 What pages are engaging with? From there we can extrapolate what personas are interested 179 00:11:00.139 --> 00:11:03.539 versus not? What their pain points are? You, are they downloading a 180 00:11:03.740 --> 00:11:07.730 duty of care guide book or they looking for how to reduce expenses? Right, 181 00:11:07.769 --> 00:11:11.610 and and that allows us again to target what we're going to say next. 182 00:11:11.049 --> 00:11:13.970 And then sales. That's where I work very, very closely with the 183 00:11:15.049 --> 00:11:18.039 team. We use outreach from a sales and ablement forms, sales outreach perspective, 184 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:22.360 and I'm there every day. Right. And how to what messaging is 185 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:26.320 working, what ad test for certain sequences is engaging or not, and the 186 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:30.120 how do we tweak and learn, etc. Right. And then we kind 187 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:31.480 of take the next step within that. We use path factor, right, 188 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:35.549 for content. So, okay, now this is the content hub that we're 189 00:11:35.549 --> 00:11:41.190 sharing with the finance persona. Within that content of what chases are they engaging 190 00:11:41.309 --> 00:11:43.389 with? Right. So when we have an assumption of what financecares about, 191 00:11:43.789 --> 00:11:46.110 what does the data show us? Looking, okay, we need more of 192 00:11:46.179 --> 00:11:48.659 this, less of this. Right, this is fluff, this is not 193 00:11:50.299 --> 00:11:52.539 you know, and then that's kind of you know. So again the mob 194 00:11:52.659 --> 00:11:56.340 that the thinking model is the same. It's just what data points to. 195 00:11:56.500 --> 00:12:01.179 I have at each stage this hopefully make those decisions. The other thing I've 196 00:12:01.490 --> 00:12:07.289 I've learned uncomfortably at times, is don't get too specific, right the just 197 00:12:07.409 --> 00:12:11.490 because you think XYZ means I have to say exactly this. It's so easy 198 00:12:11.570 --> 00:12:15.289 to miss the mark, right. So always kind of take that level of 199 00:12:15.649 --> 00:12:18.759 what is going to be most relevant to this account, to the VP of 200 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:20.519 finance, the also a director, also a manager, right, because you 201 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:24.919 know, we don't know exactly what levely, the organization is leading the that 202 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:28.000 research, research. So don't get way down the weeds like here is something 203 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.269 that's just for a CFL, right, because that's an audience of one, 204 00:12:31.549 --> 00:12:35.669 right, maybe two. Of there's a you know, an ambitious vp in 205 00:12:35.669 --> 00:12:37.710 there, right. But but ultimately that's a lesson I learned where you know 206 00:12:37.750 --> 00:12:41.470 you have this perfect content, you think that lines up exactly what the day 207 00:12:41.470 --> 00:12:43.740 of signals and you launch it, you push it and it has nothing right. 208 00:12:45.059 --> 00:12:48.580 So be aware of how the limitations of the data and also, like 209 00:12:50.139 --> 00:12:52.299 my own biases, like just because I think it's relevant doesn't mean it is 210 00:12:52.419 --> 00:12:56.940 right. Yeah, interesting. So, in this world of being so customized 211 00:12:58.019 --> 00:13:01.570 and so personalized, you found that at times you can get too specific and 212 00:13:01.649 --> 00:13:07.649 you alienate other people within the buying committee, or there any other things, 213 00:13:07.850 --> 00:13:11.889 if you guys have used path factory and other tools to look at the content 214 00:13:11.049 --> 00:13:16.480 consumption data, where you were surprised or you realize that maybe testing it a 215 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:20.279 little bit of a different way led to a different result, that you didn't 216 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:26.440 see anything surprising, as you guys have more regularly done that, that audit 217 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:30.870 and that analysis of the content consumption. Yeah, there's two things that kind 218 00:13:30.870 --> 00:13:31.750 of stood out in the last, I would tire, three six months. 219 00:13:31.789 --> 00:13:37.269 We've outstanding content team. They do great work. But what we found is 220 00:13:37.429 --> 00:13:41.350 we've at times made the assumption that this is an asset that is relevant to 221 00:13:41.429 --> 00:13:46.059 travel managers exclusively. Right, and what we found is travel management and people 222 00:13:46.059 --> 00:13:48.220 who are invested in the travel decision and a company are actually much broader than 223 00:13:48.259 --> 00:13:52.419 that. Also, you know, we've worked with partners and we found that, 224 00:13:52.340 --> 00:13:56.009 you know, something like sixty percent of the people who manage travel and 225 00:13:56.049 --> 00:13:58.889 organizations in the US don't have travel manager in their title right. So it's 226 00:13:58.929 --> 00:14:01.649 like, you know, it's this kind of very flexible, you know, 227 00:14:01.730 --> 00:14:05.649 stakeholder situation. So we found that assets that we had lined in the certain 228 00:14:05.690 --> 00:14:09.480 persona are actually brought than that. Right so kind of don't restrain it to 229 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:13.480 okay, this is only for finances, is only for procurements, is only 230 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:16.559 for HR and then some have they have life beyond that. The other that 231 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.639 is form calm. If someone recognizes that, hey, I want to test 232 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.950 and see if this content applies to a broader set of the buying commodity. 233 00:14:26.429 --> 00:14:28.350 What is that then, change tactically for you? Before we get onto that 234 00:14:28.429 --> 00:14:31.389 second surprise yet, know that it's a great question. And what we've done 235 00:14:31.509 --> 00:14:35.149 is so we've worked with command and message around value cards and how do we 236 00:14:35.230 --> 00:14:39.259 align our solution with value with the problem right in all these kind of steps. 237 00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:43.340 So That's enable us to them break content down and see, okay, 238 00:14:43.460 --> 00:14:48.740 this actually addresses multiple areas, right, that we assume again it was very 239 00:14:48.779 --> 00:14:52.259 narrow and it's actually not. And what it enables to do was the next 240 00:14:52.299 --> 00:14:54.970 step we took was we took this one acid. We built three similar assets 241 00:14:56.250 --> 00:15:00.409 that were specific to the problems, that were more lined personas and allowed us 242 00:15:00.450 --> 00:15:03.049 then to kind of get even more granular and down, because we found, 243 00:15:03.090 --> 00:15:07.559 okay, this broader topic actually really resonated across a lot more levels. But 244 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:09.639 we needed to get a little bit deeper to give the the person's down with 245 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:13.399 the assets of value that they're looking for. GOTCH is. So you kind 246 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.240 of go back up a level, revisit that piece of content and now break 247 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.639 it into okay, we need an A, B and c version of this 248 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:24.350 same content that's mostly the same but a little bit more tailored to that h 249 00:15:24.429 --> 00:15:28.190 our leader versus the OPS leader versus, you know, the finance leader. 250 00:15:28.309 --> 00:15:31.029 I'm absolutely yeah, okay, you are. And the other thing that's been 251 00:15:31.190 --> 00:15:35.549 incredably helpful on that is broad in the channels, right, so taking that 252 00:15:35.629 --> 00:15:37.100 Ebook, for example, of that guide, but then when you have a 253 00:15:37.179 --> 00:15:41.379 Webinar you really get to see some of the feedback because of the questions that 254 00:15:41.500 --> 00:15:43.700 come in. We've also launch an office our program right, which is a 255 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:48.659 lot more low touch, but the topics and questions that have come out of 256 00:15:48.740 --> 00:15:52.409 that have really guided some like the content conversations we've had in firmly right. 257 00:15:52.409 --> 00:15:54.169 It's like, okay, this is what people really care about. A great 258 00:15:54.169 --> 00:15:58.049 example is unused tickets, right, which seems like a niche, you know, 259 00:15:58.250 --> 00:16:03.250 specific thing for a travel manager. It actually resonated all way up to 260 00:16:03.409 --> 00:16:07.080 cefo level because in certain accounts, you know that's hundreds of thousands of dollars 261 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:11.559 right. That's a real impact on the balance book. So we found that 262 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.039 we got that question a lot we and then we really dove into that and 263 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.909 gave you know, a lot more detail there. We released a couple assets 264 00:16:18.909 --> 00:16:22.429 specifically by that topic. You know, we ran some more webinars with third 265 00:16:22.470 --> 00:16:25.870 parties. So that was a great example of like taking an asset and then 266 00:16:25.870 --> 00:16:27.870 all of a sudden, within six day weeks, that has new life across 267 00:16:27.950 --> 00:16:32.789 multiple channels and multiple personas. Yeah, I love that. So you mentioned 268 00:16:32.830 --> 00:16:37.100 one of the things that was surprising was the content had a broader appeal. 269 00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:38.139 If you notice that, those are some of the things you want to do 270 00:16:38.220 --> 00:16:41.379 about it. What was the other thing that you mentioned was surprising? As 271 00:16:41.419 --> 00:16:45.299 you guys have dug into the data on the content, what was aligned with 272 00:16:47.019 --> 00:16:51.009 decisionmakers versus influencers? And, as you as we use full circle to really 273 00:16:51.090 --> 00:16:55.250 track the funnel. We also use terminus account hub to kind of see all 274 00:16:55.289 --> 00:16:59.610 the touches within an account and to actually see how many times a certain asset 275 00:16:59.769 --> 00:17:03.759 was involved in how many deals versus, what acids were aligned with the specific 276 00:17:03.880 --> 00:17:07.920 person who is making the dbuying decision. Right. So it actually, you 277 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:11.200 know, it opened up the the the window of like, oh, even 278 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:14.200 though the numbers on this are high, for example, in terms of volume, 279 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:18.990 it doesn't actually really impact deals the way we expected to wear is this 280 00:17:18.109 --> 00:17:21.990 one, which has a much narrow focus and, you know, we actually 281 00:17:22.029 --> 00:17:26.589 thought was underperforming, is actually an essential piece of, you know, sixty 282 00:17:26.670 --> 00:17:30.140 percent of the buying decisions. Right. So each of these deals had this 283 00:17:30.220 --> 00:17:33.740 asset along that person's journey in some way or fashion, even though the account 284 00:17:33.859 --> 00:17:37.700 was a ten of what you know, our top performing asset, which kind 285 00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:38.940 of brought people on the top of funnel. But a lot of these people 286 00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:42.700 are just looking to inform themselves and that's one of things we we pride ourselves 287 00:17:42.700 --> 00:17:45.650 on, right. It's something we want to do, is we offer content 288 00:17:45.769 --> 00:17:48.609 and resources to the industry. That the whole you know, we've kind of 289 00:17:48.650 --> 00:17:52.250 cut ourselves a leader there, but that also gives you a lot of false 290 00:17:52.289 --> 00:17:55.650 fauseless right, in terms of like, are you interested or you just interested 291 00:17:55.690 --> 00:17:57.329 in the industry? Yeah, both are valuable, but not for us, 292 00:17:57.369 --> 00:18:00.279 and when it comes to making a sale. Yes. So basically, what 293 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:04.440 I hear you saying there is you want to kind of divide out the consumption 294 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:10.359 of that asset based on the actual persona and, at the end of the 295 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:14.349 day, where they had decision maker or an influencer, because that is going 296 00:18:14.349 --> 00:18:18.710 to help you determine was there just engagement on that content or was their true 297 00:18:18.950 --> 00:18:23.029 deal influence happening because of that content? No great question and we looked at 298 00:18:23.069 --> 00:18:27.019 both. So netline is a contest indication under we work very closely with and 299 00:18:27.220 --> 00:18:32.059 what they do, which I love, they really break down the consumption of 300 00:18:32.140 --> 00:18:34.339 each ascid by the persona that actually consumed it. Right. So we saw, 301 00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:37.900 okay, these are assets resonate with these levels of an organization. On 302 00:18:38.019 --> 00:18:41.299 the flip side, you know, what you kind of lose to your part 303 00:18:41.299 --> 00:18:45.049 of your question is what ones were actually part of the process and the journey 304 00:18:45.089 --> 00:18:48.009 for that, you know, for that deal cycle, and that's where we 305 00:18:48.089 --> 00:18:52.089 saw, you know, this specific ebook in our example seem to always be 306 00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:56.519 consumed at least by a VP or CFO at some point in the buying cycle 307 00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:00.240 before sale. Right. So it's like this was a crucial touch point where 308 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.039 that would grow their interest, that was shared with them and they consumed it 309 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:07.839 and it also kind of drove the conversation forward, right, because good assets 310 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:11.069 ask as many questions as they answer, right. So it's like, Oh, 311 00:19:11.150 --> 00:19:12.309 this is what we can do, like, I want to learn more 312 00:19:12.349 --> 00:19:15.230 about the how do you do that? You know, how do you make 313 00:19:15.309 --> 00:19:18.670 that work the way you're describing? And that's where we kind of found that 314 00:19:18.710 --> 00:19:21.630 they were a crucial part of the you know, and we have when we 315 00:19:21.670 --> 00:19:23.619 talk about Atribution, we have obviously multitouch as well as the direct line of 316 00:19:23.660 --> 00:19:26.539 attribution, and these are the ones that actually fell into direct line attribution. 317 00:19:26.660 --> 00:19:30.859 Right. This is a decision maker that actually touched this asset on the way 318 00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:34.259 to a deal. Yeah, yeah, really interesting. So I think there's 319 00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:40.609 a number number of things that that you shared there and how marketing teams can 320 00:19:40.730 --> 00:19:44.890 look at the content consumption to a deeper level once you kind of have these 321 00:19:44.970 --> 00:19:48.130 things in place. One of the things you mentioned earlier column that I thought 322 00:19:48.329 --> 00:19:53.240 might be appabult of folks who maybe are earlier on in their ABM journey than 323 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:56.319 where you guys are at trip actions. Obviously you've got a lot of tech 324 00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:00.519 in place. You're going deeper and and you've kind of figured out all right, 325 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.960 this is level one of kind of looking at the data. It sounds 326 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.269 like you guys are three or four levels deep. One of the challenges that 327 00:20:07.390 --> 00:20:11.829 I know everybody is facing, even if they're somewhat simple or early in their 328 00:20:11.829 --> 00:20:17.789 ABM motion, is incorporating some sort of direct mail. And you mentioned the 329 00:20:17.950 --> 00:20:22.140 challenge is there that everybody's kind of facing. Have you guys come up with 330 00:20:22.220 --> 00:20:26.019 any creative solutions to the direct mail component? And since you can't mail stuff 331 00:20:26.019 --> 00:20:30.940 to offices today, I know it's a I laugh because I mean it's been 332 00:20:30.980 --> 00:20:33.460 the bane of my existence over the last three months. We had a really 333 00:20:33.859 --> 00:20:37.730 impactful direct mail program right. It was, you know, it really was. 334 00:20:37.809 --> 00:20:41.569 It was generating more pipeline than, you know, most of other channels 335 00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:44.490 other than, like, you know, the traditional paid search digital kind of 336 00:20:44.529 --> 00:20:48.130 things, and obviously that went away in March. It just turned off like 337 00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:52.640 a light switch. So we actually tested ten different iterations of digital directmail. 338 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:56.640 Right. So we use two vendors. We use send Dosa and we use 339 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:02.519 snappy, and both have different kind of experiences and but we tested everything, 340 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:06.430 you can name it, and what we found is so email has become a 341 00:21:06.589 --> 00:21:10.430 really convolutary channel right now. I mean there's so much email going and everyone 342 00:21:10.470 --> 00:21:11.869 lives in from the computer, but it's it's actually harder to get it through 343 00:21:11.950 --> 00:21:17.710 there. So what we what were we found success is is integrating direct mail 344 00:21:17.829 --> 00:21:21.579 into this this sales communications right, so it's not a separate thing. At 345 00:21:21.619 --> 00:21:25.980 the same time, in Paril it's truly one to one. I want to 346 00:21:26.059 --> 00:21:29.059 talk to you. You know, I realize your time is important. We 347 00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:32.859 try to be as empathetic as possible, right, like give work from home, 348 00:21:32.970 --> 00:21:34.130 right, how can we make that easier? Right? And and you 349 00:21:34.210 --> 00:21:37.849 know, certain things are you know, we've through snap. We offered work 350 00:21:37.890 --> 00:21:41.529 from home gifts, right. So there's a lumbar pillow, there's microphones or 351 00:21:41.609 --> 00:21:45.410 headphones and me, all these things are people all of a sudden need that 352 00:21:45.490 --> 00:21:48.160 we want to kind of help with. On the Sendoso side, it's you 353 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.279 know, do you want? I know for me, and again this is 354 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:55.680 my own bias, like cooking is the worst, right, when you're cooking 355 00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:57.240 every day, you've got kids, you're just you all these things. So 356 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:00.950 it's like if you give me fifty hundred bucks on Uber eats or doors, 357 00:22:02.150 --> 00:22:04.509 like that's real value. I appreciate that. That actually saves me time and 358 00:22:04.710 --> 00:22:07.589 you know the way of communicate that is, Hey, we realize your times 359 00:22:07.589 --> 00:22:11.950 important. We would love to chat with you thirty minutes. We think that 360 00:22:11.069 --> 00:22:14.390 you, you know, are solution lines up to be. Well, how 361 00:22:14.430 --> 00:22:18.220 about we give you some time back by a delivery service so you can spend 362 00:22:18.259 --> 00:22:22.299 that time with us and you know we have a good conversation. So those 363 00:22:22.299 --> 00:22:23.779 are the kind of things that we found that work. And again, I 364 00:22:23.819 --> 00:22:26.819 would love to say like I woke up on March thirty and said this is 365 00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:30.410 the way we're going to do it, but we tried so many different angles 366 00:22:30.490 --> 00:22:34.769 and tests and tries and just with almost zero success. Right, I mean 367 00:22:34.809 --> 00:22:38.809 it was it was truly just churning out ideas and losing them. And again 368 00:22:40.009 --> 00:22:42.250 we're still testing and making things better, but that's kind of where we are 369 00:22:42.369 --> 00:22:45.200 today. And now we're like, okay, within that framework, how do 370 00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.720 we enhance that, make that bet or make that more relevant, more empathetic, 371 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.119 more personable to the person that we're trying to reach out to? Yeah, 372 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.279 I mean I think it's a spot on solution there. So are you 373 00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:00.829 guys sending those? As the sales people you mentioned, it's more once they're 374 00:23:00.869 --> 00:23:03.670 sales engaged and it's a tool that the sales team can use. Is it 375 00:23:04.230 --> 00:23:08.430 sending those via email or salesperson literally saying hey, what's your home address? 376 00:23:08.509 --> 00:23:11.900 We want to physically mail this to you. Have you guys tried both options 377 00:23:12.059 --> 00:23:17.740 and can we have effectiveness? Yeah, no, and the because the home 378 00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:21.180 delivery thing. So we have tested that. You send those as a great 379 00:23:21.220 --> 00:23:23.579 solution on that. But people are still, and this is understandable, people 380 00:23:23.579 --> 00:23:26.289 can still be uncomfortable with giving out their home address. Right. Sure, 381 00:23:26.690 --> 00:23:32.450 it's and everyone has different situations about their environment. So we actually had some 382 00:23:32.529 --> 00:23:34.609 kind of misses there where they came across, as you know, especially if 383 00:23:34.650 --> 00:23:37.329 it's early in the cell cycle. So if you're talking to some of your 384 00:23:37.369 --> 00:23:41.920 engage with a relationship with absolutely right. We make that happen, no problem. 385 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:45.000 We send personalize things through Amazon and we get their home address and send 386 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.759 it. But when you're really looking at how to open that door and in 387 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.640 kind of start that conversation, the address, for what we found it was 388 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:57.349 too big of an ask. Right. so that's where email and digital delivery 389 00:23:57.390 --> 00:24:00.710 became more way to go and and that's where, again, we empowered the 390 00:24:00.829 --> 00:24:06.109 reps to make that offer via however, they want the phone, social, 391 00:24:06.710 --> 00:24:08.390 email, you name it, and then we work on delivery for them, 392 00:24:08.630 --> 00:24:12.059 you know, after the fact. Yeah, I love that solution. Looking 393 00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:17.500 for a digital way that isn't an ask and adds value it, but incorporates 394 00:24:17.619 --> 00:24:22.299 the value of adding a gift once they're engaged early in the sales process. 395 00:24:22.660 --> 00:24:26.089 But if it is a longer sales cycle in the sales rep is engaged, 396 00:24:26.569 --> 00:24:30.369 often times, you know, something strategic. I've even I've been engaged with 397 00:24:30.849 --> 00:24:33.650 marketing leaders that are looking at our service, and this is after we've had 398 00:24:33.690 --> 00:24:37.369 a caller to but hey, I'd love to send you a copy of our 399 00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:42.200 CEOS book because it it really unpacks the strategy that we talked about with podcasting. 400 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:45.519 Hey, can I can I send that to you? At that stage 401 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:48.640 people are more than willing to give out you know, they're mailing addressed but 402 00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:51.440 I wouldn't cold message someone on Linkedin and say, Hey, I want to 403 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:52.309 send you a booker. I want to say where do you live? Give 404 00:24:52.349 --> 00:24:55.589 me where do you live. Yeah, why do you want to know? 405 00:24:55.670 --> 00:24:59.950 It's kind of like that line from from Hamilton. I've been looking for you. 406 00:25:00.109 --> 00:25:03.670 I'm getting nervous, sir. Right, yeah, anyway, for folks 407 00:25:03.670 --> 00:25:07.539 who haven't seen or listen to the soundtrack of Hamilton, that might fall on 408 00:25:07.700 --> 00:25:11.019 deaf ears, but it's in my head consistently. This one of the thing 409 00:25:11.059 --> 00:25:14.220 I go we want to add on the digital directmail side. What we found 410 00:25:14.299 --> 00:25:17.619 also, though, is it's important to establish the fit and the value first. 411 00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:21.690 What the Directmail at and the incentive for us was help with the timing 412 00:25:21.849 --> 00:25:23.289 right. So so much of what we run into is ik, sounds like 413 00:25:23.410 --> 00:25:26.609 great, but no one's traveling right. Why? Don't you know? Why? 414 00:25:26.890 --> 00:25:29.809 We can talk later, right, and later is always never. So 415 00:25:30.170 --> 00:25:32.930 what we found the digital directmail, but the right way that we found. 416 00:25:32.970 --> 00:25:36.519 Use Its established the value, established that we're going to solve their solution and 417 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:38.279 then use the incentive as a way to say, Hey, let's meet this 418 00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:41.200 week, right, let's meet this month, not in the future. And 419 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:45.079 someone define thing, because when we led with the with the offer, it 420 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.880 became a you know, a spammy right, and it was like oh well, 421 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:51.109 what are you really doing? It's like no, let's let's sell you 422 00:25:51.309 --> 00:25:55.230 first on why we're important and we'll use incentive to say and that and this 423 00:25:55.390 --> 00:25:59.069 is why you talk to us now as opposed to next quarter next year when 424 00:25:59.109 --> 00:26:02.269 traveler resumes, because who knows when that is right. Yeah, I like 425 00:26:02.470 --> 00:26:04.740 that. So definitely hit the back button a couple times. This might be 426 00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:07.420 in episode. You want to go back to the start, because column we 427 00:26:07.460 --> 00:26:11.220 talked about a number of things, how to how to be agile with gift 428 00:26:11.259 --> 00:26:15.339 giving, how to be agile based on the stage there in, how to 429 00:26:15.380 --> 00:26:18.650 be a dual based on the content that you create, what the data tells 430 00:26:18.690 --> 00:26:22.849 you and then adjusting that. So a number of different things. I love 431 00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:26.049 the way that you walk through some very specifics and what you guys have tested, 432 00:26:26.529 --> 00:26:30.130 tried and and learn from column. On that note, if anybody listening 433 00:26:30.170 --> 00:26:33.160 to this would like to Ping you with any follow up questions or maybe just 434 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:37.240 stay connected with you in the team at trip actions, was the best way 435 00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.200 for them to do that? The best way would be linkedin. So Colum 436 00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:42.240 shall be I'm one of one CLM, so you're not going to find too 437 00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:45.359 many of me and I'm on twitter, but I mean that's more just to 438 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:49.630 read the news and Yell at it as opposed to engage. So linkedin will 439 00:26:49.630 --> 00:26:52.390 be the best. than happy to connect them and you know I love sharing 440 00:26:52.390 --> 00:26:56.670 these ideas. Again, because I'm constantly learning. For it out wall works 441 00:26:56.670 --> 00:27:02.180 because, as I've seen this year, so it's it changes every single week, 442 00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:06.259 if sometimes. Yeah, back to our theme of today's episode with Being 443 00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:08.220 Agile, so calm. I love that. I also love the breakdown of 444 00:27:08.299 --> 00:27:14.059 twitter and Linkedin right now, very very avocable definitions of how we approach this 445 00:27:14.220 --> 00:27:17.529 two platforms. Thank you so much for being our guest on the show today. 446 00:27:17.529 --> 00:27:19.049 I really appreciate it and I really appreciate the time. This has been 447 00:27:19.049 --> 00:27:25.329 great. Thank you. Is Your buyer a BBB marketer? If so, 448 00:27:25.490 --> 00:27:29.490 you should think about sponsoring this podcast. Be Tob growth gets downloaded over a 449 00:27:29.529 --> 00:27:33.839 hundred and thirty thousand times each month and our listeners are marketing decision makers. 450 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.359 If it sounds interesting, Sin Logan and email Logan at sweetish Mediacom