Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.640 Hey, this is James, the founder of sweet fish media. If you've 2 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:04.759 listened to me to be growth for a while, you probably have an idea 3 00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:08.750 of what we're passionate about. Loving people really well, a constant pursuit of 4 00:00:08.869 --> 00:00:13.669 learning and inspiring people to own their careers. With all the craziness happening with 5 00:00:13.750 --> 00:00:17.550 this virus, we are incredibly fortunate to be in the business of podcasting. 6 00:00:18.109 --> 00:00:22.219 So many BB brands are looking for alternatives to their inperson events that are being 7 00:00:22.339 --> 00:00:26.780 canceled, and our business is growing as a result. Please don't miss hear 8 00:00:26.859 --> 00:00:30.379 me on this, because I'm not saying this to Brag. It is heartbreaking 9 00:00:30.539 --> 00:00:34.579 the economic impact this is having on so many businesses. But being in the 10 00:00:34.619 --> 00:00:39.130 business of podcasting, the demand for what we do has increased and because of 11 00:00:39.250 --> 00:00:43.130 that we're looking to hire really talented people to help us serve that demand. 12 00:00:43.570 --> 00:00:46.409 So if you like what we're all about it sweet fish and you're looking for 13 00:00:46.490 --> 00:00:49.689 a great career opportunity, hit us up. There's a link in the show 14 00:00:49.729 --> 00:00:52.679 notes where you can apply today. I'm really looking forward to meeting you. 15 00:00:54.719 --> 00:00:58.359 Welcome back to be to be growth. This is another behind the current episode. 16 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:02.079 It's Kelsey course, and I'm here today with Logan Lyles, director of 17 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:04.870 partnerships. How's it going today, Logan? I am doing well. Kelsey, 18 00:01:04.950 --> 00:01:10.069 I am managing quarantine. Okay. Actually had a good time with the 19 00:01:10.150 --> 00:01:12.829 family this weekend. We watched a little pixar movie. That was fun and 20 00:01:14.230 --> 00:01:18.430 excited to chat with you. I had some experiences here recently that I definitely 21 00:01:18.469 --> 00:01:22.180 want to share with other sales people out there and what they can learn from 22 00:01:22.180 --> 00:01:26.060 it. Yeah, that's awesome and I'm so excited to dive right into it. 23 00:01:26.500 --> 00:01:30.859 So kind of what you were hinting at is two situations where you told 24 00:01:30.980 --> 00:01:34.329 potential customers that we may not be a good fit for them. So tell 25 00:01:34.409 --> 00:01:38.569 me what prompted this? Yeah, absolutely, so a lot of this conversation 26 00:01:40.049 --> 00:01:44.450 is centered around just how I've always approached sales, I feel like, and 27 00:01:44.730 --> 00:01:49.000 also something I've really been trying to lean into since I read a really great 28 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:53.159 sales book called the transparency sale by Todd capony. If anybody listening to this 29 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:57.920 hasn't checked that out before, we've interviewed him on the BB sales show. 30 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:00.599 We can link to that in the show notes. But it's all about when 31 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:05.349 you lead with almost radical transparency, you have better results and we're going to 32 00:02:05.390 --> 00:02:07.989 talk in a little bit down the road in this episode about some of the 33 00:02:07.030 --> 00:02:10.590 things that I think you can take away from this. But the situations where 34 00:02:10.629 --> 00:02:15.590 they were. There were two different prospects that I was talking to. One 35 00:02:15.710 --> 00:02:17.819 head come to me and said, Hey, we have an existing podcast. 36 00:02:17.939 --> 00:02:23.060 We'd like to see if you guys could help and kind of take our production 37 00:02:23.259 --> 00:02:27.219 to the next level. The other was a new customer that was looking for 38 00:02:27.460 --> 00:02:31.969 our help with launching and producing their new show. And in both situations there 39 00:02:32.009 --> 00:02:36.530 were certain things as I started to ask questions about what they were looking for, 40 00:02:36.810 --> 00:02:38.370 what they were hoping to get out of their podcasts, where where they 41 00:02:38.370 --> 00:02:43.930 were most needing help. Some of the areas that they were talking about and 42 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:47.639 showing needs were not necessarily the areas that we are the strongest, where we 43 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:52.680 deliver the most value, and we can kind of get into some specifics there. 44 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:55.120 But as opposed to kind of shying away from those, I chose to 45 00:02:55.240 --> 00:03:00.229 dig in on those and say, Hey, this is an area where we 46 00:03:00.389 --> 00:03:04.110 might not be a good fit. In both situations, both customers were looking 47 00:03:04.229 --> 00:03:09.629 for help with really kind of higher level, very polished, very high production 48 00:03:09.750 --> 00:03:14.979 value on the audio. Now I think we produced great sounding podcast we have, 49 00:03:15.259 --> 00:03:19.979 you know, over sixty in active production and they're definitely, I think, 50 00:03:20.099 --> 00:03:23.620 better audio quality than just doing it yourself and recording on your iphone and 51 00:03:23.740 --> 00:03:28.169 throwing on anchor. But they're not most of the podcasts that we produce are 52 00:03:28.250 --> 00:03:32.930 somewhere between that kind of diy, very very basic, and this American life 53 00:03:34.009 --> 00:03:39.849 or masters of scale or something else with that very highly highly produced, hundreds 54 00:03:39.889 --> 00:03:44.879 of cuts through the episode narrative format. That's just not necessarily what we do. 55 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:47.080 Where where we kind of come in is somewhere in the middle, and 56 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:52.599 so I noticed this disconnect of they were looking for something more on that far 57 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:57.150 end of the spectrum and that's not necessarily where our strengths lie. So, 58 00:03:57.229 --> 00:04:00.270 as opposed to kind of talking about other things or spinning up the things that 59 00:04:00.349 --> 00:04:02.710 we do really well, I dug into that to see, well, is 60 00:04:02.789 --> 00:04:05.949 this important to you guys? Is this what you're looking for? And so 61 00:04:06.750 --> 00:04:10.780 that's, I think, what other sales people can can learn from and we 62 00:04:10.780 --> 00:04:13.939 can talk a little bit more about. You know, what happened in and 63 00:04:14.219 --> 00:04:16.259 some of the effects of that, how the conversations actually went from there. 64 00:04:16.740 --> 00:04:23.540 Yeah, I also find it very interesting that they were two very different scenarios. 65 00:04:23.860 --> 00:04:27.610 One already had a podcast and is looking to enhance it and one was 66 00:04:27.649 --> 00:04:30.689 a completely new client. So what happened in each of them? Yeah, 67 00:04:30.769 --> 00:04:36.449 so in the conversation where the prospect had an existing podcast, we had the 68 00:04:36.529 --> 00:04:41.040 conversation and I said, well, are you guys looking for production help? 69 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:44.720 Are you looking for like what we're really good at right is taking a piece 70 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:48.240 of audio and turning that into several graphics, short form video, long form 71 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:53.389 video, written content for Linkedin, written content for your blog, producing the 72 00:04:53.430 --> 00:04:57.550 podcast episode, getting as much juiced for the squeeze, as they say, 73 00:04:57.750 --> 00:05:00.029 out of, you know, your one piece of content and turning that into 74 00:05:00.069 --> 00:05:03.389 more. That's that's really where I think our strengths live, based on the 75 00:05:03.550 --> 00:05:08.740 team that we have of great producers like yourself and the way that we've structured 76 00:05:08.779 --> 00:05:13.300 and grown the team, from video to producers to graphic designers and everything there. 77 00:05:13.620 --> 00:05:15.579 And what he said was, well, that's not necessarily what we need 78 00:05:15.699 --> 00:05:19.459 help with. What we need help with is taking that audio quality and making 79 00:05:19.459 --> 00:05:26.410 it more this narrative style and and structuring the episodes and giving you some raw 80 00:05:26.449 --> 00:05:30.410 audio and having you kind of piece it together in this journalistic style. And 81 00:05:30.449 --> 00:05:33.970 I said, well, we don't necessarily have journalists on on staff here. 82 00:05:34.449 --> 00:05:40.000 You know, we have some folks who are growing in learning how to outline 83 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:44.240 interviews, develop questions, host podcasts like yourself and like we're doing right now, 84 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:47.079 right, but that's not necessarily our strength. So if that's really what 85 00:05:47.199 --> 00:05:49.870 you're looking for, I don't know if we're the right fit today. In 86 00:05:49.949 --> 00:05:53.750 a year from now we might have that sort of offering, but today we 87 00:05:53.870 --> 00:05:57.629 don't. And he just stopped and said, and I really appreciate that, 88 00:05:58.110 --> 00:06:00.589 it sounds like we should kind of time out and stop the conversation here. 89 00:06:00.910 --> 00:06:05.019 But what happened was we had fifteen more minutes on the phone. We talked 90 00:06:05.139 --> 00:06:10.420 podcasting, he shared a tool that I ended up sharing with another customer, 91 00:06:10.459 --> 00:06:14.379 which actually loose into this whole story, and I felt like I gained a 92 00:06:14.540 --> 00:06:17.139 lot of trust with that potential customer. Now you know if he moves on 93 00:06:17.300 --> 00:06:21.050 to another company or they have some different needs with their podcast or he talks 94 00:06:21.129 --> 00:06:26.089 to someone else. I've gained some trust there and I also haven't kind of 95 00:06:26.129 --> 00:06:29.009 stretched our team and said Hey, guys, guess what I committed to. 96 00:06:29.290 --> 00:06:31.290 I know we don't have process for this type of show, but this is, 97 00:06:31.649 --> 00:06:33.560 you know, this is the customer I could get in the door. 98 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:36.920 And then the other situation was kind of the same thing. They were looking 99 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:42.800 for more of that higher production value, that narrative style podcast, and one 100 00:06:43.240 --> 00:06:46.790 I talked to them about what we see in the sustainability of that and there's 101 00:06:46.829 --> 00:06:51.589 a reason that we kind of fit in in the middle between that highly scripted 102 00:06:51.750 --> 00:06:57.750 narrative style podcast and just kind of do it yourself low quality. That's because 103 00:06:58.149 --> 00:07:01.459 we see that there needs to be a balance between quality and quantity in your 104 00:07:01.540 --> 00:07:08.139 podcast in order to keep listeners engaged, in order to stay consistent and be 105 00:07:08.259 --> 00:07:11.220 able to have the bandwidth to keep your podcast going even with our help. 106 00:07:11.339 --> 00:07:15.730 So we had a conversation about that. We also so the tool that that 107 00:07:15.810 --> 00:07:20.610 first prospect mentioned that he was using to kind of outline his interviews, take 108 00:07:20.649 --> 00:07:25.209 the raw audio and kind of move stuff a round and create this narrative format. 109 00:07:25.689 --> 00:07:29.329 I was able to recommend to this other potential customer and say well, 110 00:07:29.370 --> 00:07:33.120 Hey, what if you guys use this tool to kind of create the structure 111 00:07:33.560 --> 00:07:39.079 and then you kick that to us, because we do have amazing audio engineers 112 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:43.439 that can clean stuff up and provide clean transitions and smooth out the rough edges 113 00:07:43.519 --> 00:07:46.790 and all those sorts of things and then turn that into a lot more as 114 00:07:46.829 --> 00:07:48.870 I mentioned earlier, and some of our strengths. And he was like that 115 00:07:48.990 --> 00:07:51.949 actually makes a lot of sense as opposed to us, you know, paying 116 00:07:53.069 --> 00:07:56.949 double or needing to find someone else other than you guys, because you do 117 00:07:57.110 --> 00:08:00.300 a lot of the things that we do want if we could take some of 118 00:08:00.379 --> 00:08:03.819 that in house. And so now that deal has progressed, we're looking at 119 00:08:05.019 --> 00:08:09.139 bringing on that that new customer and we're going into it eyes wide open, 120 00:08:09.180 --> 00:08:13.009 where they don't have this assumption that well, sweet fish can do these things 121 00:08:13.089 --> 00:08:16.889 that maybe we can't do. I didn't just kind of Skim over that, 122 00:08:18.089 --> 00:08:20.329 just talk about the great things and set them up for maybe a bad customer 123 00:08:20.449 --> 00:08:24.089 experience in the producer on our team for a bad experience as well. And 124 00:08:24.250 --> 00:08:28.439 so one eliminated a deal, but that was okay because there were good things 125 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:33.279 that came out of it, and the other actually move the deal along as 126 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:37.120 opposed to waiting until the very end or until after they're on boarded to talk 127 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.879 about kind of the sticky part where maybe we were trying to put a round 128 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:45.389 peg in a square hole, or maybe the saying is typically flipped. Anyway, 129 00:08:45.590 --> 00:08:48.669 I think people get what I'm saying there. Then we were able to 130 00:08:48.269 --> 00:08:52.309 address that. That could have been kind of one of those oh sort of 131 00:08:52.389 --> 00:08:56.460 things that pop up after onboarding, whether you're a service based business like us 132 00:08:56.500 --> 00:09:03.299 or a product based business where your product doesn't necessarily fit this situation but you're 133 00:09:03.340 --> 00:09:05.620 trying to you're trying to make it work to get that deal. It sounds 134 00:09:05.659 --> 00:09:11.929 like there's a lot of benefits and being in sales and truly knowing and understanding 135 00:09:11.970 --> 00:09:16.409 strengths and weaknesses of the team. So let's talk about some more benefits. 136 00:09:16.450 --> 00:09:18.970 What can we learn? How? What's it like being transparent in sales? 137 00:09:20.490 --> 00:09:24.440 Yeah, absolutely so. One of the things I alluded to earlier is that 138 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:28.360 you avoid bad deals, and avoiding deals and not getting at them across the 139 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:33.120 finish line seems a little bit counterintuitive to those of us who have been in 140 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:37.320 sales for for any length of time, but what it really does is if 141 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:41.830 you avoid trying to shove that round peg into a square hole, then you're 142 00:09:41.830 --> 00:09:46.990 actually reducing your company's churn rate because those not ideal fit and and I'm not 143 00:09:48.070 --> 00:09:50.669 saying that you know every customer is just going to check every single box and 144 00:09:50.789 --> 00:09:54.220 be, you know, a raving fan and just perfect for your organization, 145 00:09:54.340 --> 00:09:58.299 but you know the ones where you're trying to stretch a little bit too much. 146 00:09:58.580 --> 00:10:01.259 By avoiding those, then you're going to reduce your churn rate because even 147 00:10:01.259 --> 00:10:05.659 if you get those deals across the finish line and they come on board as 148 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:09.610 customers, likelihood is they are not going to stay for for that long. 149 00:10:09.049 --> 00:10:13.090 The other thing that it does is it accelerates your good deals. So in 150 00:10:13.250 --> 00:10:18.129 the second story that I shared there, it actually accelerated that deal. I 151 00:10:18.250 --> 00:10:22.879 gained trust by just speaking open and honestly about one of the concerns that they 152 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:26.039 had, because I had given them, Hey, here are some other shows 153 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:28.320 you can listen to, here some customers to talk to, and I said, 154 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.960 you know, it seems like you guys might be looking for kind of 155 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:35.950 this higher end audio production, and he's like yeah, and I kind of 156 00:10:37.029 --> 00:10:39.269 noticed most of the shows that you guys produced don't kind of fit that mold. 157 00:10:39.629 --> 00:10:43.629 And so by talking about that openly we were able to come to a 158 00:10:43.789 --> 00:10:48.429 solution that that seems to work from a price point, from a bandwidth, 159 00:10:48.590 --> 00:10:52.620 from WHO's going to take on what? All of those things seem to work 160 00:10:52.740 --> 00:10:56.740 as opposed to you know, the deal could have just stalled out because they 161 00:10:56.820 --> 00:11:00.700 could have just decided hey, sweet fish isn't a good fit for us because 162 00:11:00.740 --> 00:11:03.980 we're looking for this. They don't typically offer this. But if we had 163 00:11:03.059 --> 00:11:07.049 never talked about it, then I didn't have a chance to address that. 164 00:11:07.210 --> 00:11:11.610 So some deals will get out of your pipeline, some will accelerate and it's 165 00:11:11.610 --> 00:11:15.850 also going to accelerate your better deals because you're not going to spend time on 166 00:11:16.009 --> 00:11:18.480 wasted deals that are never going to close or are going to close and not 167 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:22.919 stay for long anyway. So it allows you to accelerate your deal velocity and 168 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:28.919 help contribute to a lower turn rate for your for your organization. The other 169 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:33.110 thing is when you lower your turn rate, you have happier customers, which 170 00:11:33.149 --> 00:11:35.309 lead to more referrals, but you also have happier team members. You know 171 00:11:35.470 --> 00:11:39.950 a lot of folks listening to the show are in Sass businesses where you have 172 00:11:39.389 --> 00:11:46.179 customer support, customer experience or customer success teams who are responsible for the happiness 173 00:11:46.259 --> 00:11:50.179 of the customer and delivering on the promise us that sales and marketing made to 174 00:11:50.299 --> 00:11:54.460 them right and in our case that's folks like you, Kelsey, that's folks 175 00:11:54.620 --> 00:11:58.860 that are on our producer team that you know. I've talked with customers about 176 00:11:58.899 --> 00:12:03.210 what they can expect during their launch process, how we're going to help produce 177 00:12:03.289 --> 00:12:05.570 their show, how we're going to create more content out of their podcast. 178 00:12:05.970 --> 00:12:11.809 And if I've kind of set bad expectations or kind of said, well, 179 00:12:11.850 --> 00:12:15.009 we can maybe stretched here, but I know that our team is not set 180 00:12:15.049 --> 00:12:18.840 up to support something that they want, whatever the case that that may be, 181 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:22.240 then not only is there going to be frustration on the customer side, 182 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:26.799 but you're going to contribute to frustration internally at your organization for anyone involved on 183 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:31.230 the post sale side. So the other thing that you need to think about 184 00:12:31.269 --> 00:12:33.950 is what are you contributing to your culture? We took a lot about sales 185 00:12:35.029 --> 00:12:37.509 and marketing alignment, but sales and customer success. I think the more that 186 00:12:37.629 --> 00:12:41.389 you're aligned and on the same page with your partners on the post sale side, 187 00:12:41.669 --> 00:12:45.100 the better off you're going to be. And then the other thing, 188 00:12:45.220 --> 00:12:48.980 the the fourth one that I mentioned earlier, in that first scenario was credibility 189 00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:54.860 and gained referrals. If you are known for just offering the truth, for 190 00:12:54.500 --> 00:12:58.970 really being you know that. We talked about a trusted advisor and sales. 191 00:12:58.450 --> 00:13:03.210 How do you gain trust? You show that you're willing to speak the truth 192 00:13:03.330 --> 00:13:07.169 when it's not in your best interest, and in that first scenario by saying 193 00:13:07.210 --> 00:13:09.889 hey, I don't think we're the right fit for you, then he was 194 00:13:09.929 --> 00:13:13.559 able to say, Hey, look, Logan and sweetfish are actually looking out 195 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:16.759 for me, they're not just trying to sell me something. If they are 196 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:20.279 the right fit, then obviously they're going to tell me why they are, 197 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:22.799 and everybody that I talked to knows that. Hey, it's my job to 198 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:26.789 put our best foot forward and offer what we have at sweet fish, but 199 00:13:28.070 --> 00:13:31.590 if they know that I'm doing that in a very honest and transparent way, 200 00:13:31.909 --> 00:13:35.990 then they're going to feel more comfortable in referring other business or coming back to 201 00:13:35.070 --> 00:13:39.429 me when they're at a different organization. And no matter who you sell to, 202 00:13:39.990 --> 00:13:43.899 people are moving around more these days than ever, and so that investment 203 00:13:45.100 --> 00:13:48.500 in the long term trust and relationship with that potential customer is worth a whole 204 00:13:48.580 --> 00:13:52.179 lot more than that short term deal that you could maybe get across the finish 205 00:13:52.259 --> 00:13:56.049 line, but it's tough to take that long term picture when you've got your 206 00:13:56.090 --> 00:14:01.330 quota hanging over your head or you're only looking at the short term. You've 207 00:14:01.370 --> 00:14:03.610 got to have that long term mindset, and I'm not saying ignore your monthly 208 00:14:03.649 --> 00:14:07.289 quota, your quarterly quota. We all know we have to do that as 209 00:14:07.330 --> 00:14:09.679 sales people, but it comes with a balance. And I just got to 210 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:15.360 give a shout out again to todd capony. Check out his book the Transparency 211 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:18.039 Sale. If any of this is kind of resonating with you, it's a 212 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:24.350 great book to go deeper on this topic. Yeah, all of those antecdotes 213 00:14:24.389 --> 00:14:28.830 and stories and everything, we're so powerful. Just to kind of give a 214 00:14:28.870 --> 00:14:33.029 little bit of a recap of why you actually told to potential customers why we 215 00:14:33.149 --> 00:14:35.190 may not be a good fit. You told us kind of what prompted it, 216 00:14:35.389 --> 00:14:39.940 what happened and what was the outcome in each of the situations and then, 217 00:14:39.059 --> 00:14:43.460 I think, most importantly, what we can learn the benefits of being 218 00:14:43.539 --> 00:14:48.139 transparent in sales and something specifically you said that I really liked was there's power 219 00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:52.500 in saying that we may not be a good fit and I think that just 220 00:14:52.659 --> 00:14:56.769 can resignate so well in the sales industry and just in a company in general. 221 00:14:58.129 --> 00:15:01.529 Like you said, having credibility and getting referrals and kind of the long 222 00:15:01.570 --> 00:15:07.639 game versus the short game. So thank you so much for telling us about 223 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:09.679 those scenarios and the story. So, if someone wants to connect with you, 224 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.840 what's the best way that they can do that? Yeah, absolutely. 225 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:16.159 If you're a regular listener of the show, you know that I'm most active 226 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:20.639 on Linkedin. It's very easy to find me, Logan Lyles. My last 227 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:24.309 name is spelled L Y L es. You can also connect with me on 228 00:15:24.429 --> 00:15:28.350 instagram. I'm at I am Logan Miles either of those or feel free to 229 00:15:28.350 --> 00:15:31.309 shoot me an email, logan at sweet fish Mediacom. If you want to 230 00:15:31.350 --> 00:15:35.220 chat podcasting or sales. I'm always up for chatting with listeners. I really 231 00:15:35.259 --> 00:15:37.860 appreciate you hosting today, by the way, Kelsey. Thanks so much. 232 00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:45.139 Yeah, thanks for being on the show. I hate it when podcasts incessantly 233 00:15:45.220 --> 00:15:48.539 ask their listeners for reviews, but I get why they do it, because 234 00:15:48.580 --> 00:15:52.769 reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's 235 00:15:52.809 --> 00:15:54.450 what we decided to do. If you leave a review for me to be 236 00:15:54.529 --> 00:15:58.929 growth in apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review to James at 237 00:15:58.970 --> 00:16:03.610 Sweet Fish Mediacom, I'll send you a signed copy of my new book, 238 00:16:03.610 --> 00:16:07.279 content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. 239 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:10.639 We get a review, you get a free book. We both win.
