#BestOf2019: 3 Reasons to Build a Thought Leadership Discipline Within Your Organization w/ Dottie Schindlinger

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:08.310 Hey there, this is James Carberry, founder of sweet fish media and one 2 00:00:08.310 --> 00:00:11.189 of the cohosts of this show. For the last year and a half I've 3 00:00:11.189 --> 00:00:14.990 been working on my very first book. In the book I share the three 4 00:00:15.029 --> 00:00:18.910 part framework we've used as the foundation for our growth. Here is sweetfish. 5 00:00:19.350 --> 00:00:22.620 Now there are lots of companies that everased a bunch of money and have grown 6 00:00:22.699 --> 00:00:25.579 insanely fast, and we featured a lot of them here on the show. 7 00:00:26.339 --> 00:00:30.579 We've decided to bootstrap our business, which usually equates to pretty slow growth, 8 00:00:31.100 --> 00:00:34.700 but using the strategy outlined in the book, we are on pace to be 9 00:00:34.859 --> 00:00:38.649 one of inks fastest growing companies in two thousand and twenty. The book is 10 00:00:38.729 --> 00:00:42.729 called content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. 11 00:00:43.250 --> 00:00:45.329 If you're a fan of audio books like me, you can find the 12 00:00:45.369 --> 00:00:48.369 book on audible, or if you like physical books, you can also find 13 00:00:48.409 --> 00:00:53.759 it on Amazon. Just search content based networking or James Carberry, CR BEA 14 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:58.280 ary, inaudible or Amazon and it should pop right up. All right, 15 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:03.399 let's get into the show. Hey, everybody, Logan with sweet fish here, 16 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:06.709 as we've been doing all month long, we continue our countdown of the 17 00:01:06.790 --> 00:01:10.670 top twenty episodes of two thousand and nineteen here in our Hashtag best of two 18 00:01:10.670 --> 00:01:15.189 thousand and nineteen series. Coming in at number seven is a conversation with vp 19 00:01:15.390 --> 00:01:19.099 of thought leadership at Diligent Corporation, dotty Chin Linger. She's also the host 20 00:01:19.219 --> 00:01:23.500 of the corporate director podcast. Thought leadership came up in a lot of conversations, 21 00:01:23.579 --> 00:01:27.859 both here on the podcast and offline, with marketing leaders throughout two thousand 22 00:01:27.859 --> 00:01:33.129 and nineteen, so I think you guys will enjoy this conversation about three reasons 23 00:01:33.250 --> 00:01:38.730 to build a thought leadership discipline within your organization. To get more episodes coming 24 00:01:38.730 --> 00:01:42.370 up and then countdown, make sure you're subscribed to the show in apple podcasts 25 00:01:42.569 --> 00:01:46.329 or wherever you do you're listening. You can also check out the full list 26 00:01:46.450 --> 00:01:51.439 at Sweet Fish Mediacom blog. Just look for the Hashtag Best of two thousand 27 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:57.599 and nineteen in the categories on the right hand side of that page. Welcome 28 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:00.480 back to be to be growth. I am your host for today's episode, 29 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:04.189 Nikki Ivy, with sweet fish media. I've got with me today Daddy Shin 30 00:02:04.269 --> 00:02:07.990 Linger, who is vp of thought leadership at Diligent Corporation. How you doing 31 00:02:08.110 --> 00:02:10.909 a day Dotty, I'm doing great, Nikki. Thank you so much for 32 00:02:10.949 --> 00:02:14.909 having me on the podcast. Hey, no problem, I'm super excited to 33 00:02:14.949 --> 00:02:16.740 get into what we're going to talk about today. We're going to be talking 34 00:02:16.780 --> 00:02:23.659 about building a thought leadership discipline within an organization, and I why it's important 35 00:02:23.659 --> 00:02:27.500 to be an infational about that sort of thing. But before we dig into 36 00:02:27.539 --> 00:02:29.379 all that, Daddy, I'd love for you to just give us a little 37 00:02:29.379 --> 00:02:31.370 bit of background on yourself and what you in the folks of Diligen of been 38 00:02:31.409 --> 00:02:35.969 up to these days. Sure. So it's probably helpful if I just explain 39 00:02:36.090 --> 00:02:40.530 what diligent as well. So Diligent Corporation is primarily a software company that focuses 40 00:02:40.610 --> 00:02:46.800 on providing solutions to corporate leaders and board members of organizations around the globe. 41 00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:52.000 So, as an enterprise, we work with about six hundred and Fiftyzero senior 42 00:02:52.039 --> 00:02:55.080 leaders of companies and organizations in the court up space, in the nonprofit space, 43 00:02:55.400 --> 00:02:59.590 really all over the world, and so we spend a lot of our 44 00:02:59.669 --> 00:03:05.229 time thinking and talking, eating, sleeping and breathing board governance. So we 45 00:03:05.310 --> 00:03:07.590 are, we are, a lot of us kind of governance geeks. You 46 00:03:07.629 --> 00:03:09.870 know. We spent a lot of time writing about these issues, thinking about 47 00:03:09.870 --> 00:03:14.740 these issues, talking about these issues, and so that's that's actually sort of 48 00:03:14.860 --> 00:03:19.419 where I came from. I've been working in governance for about twenty years and 49 00:03:19.460 --> 00:03:23.099 a variety of different roles. The reason I came to diligent was that, 50 00:03:23.259 --> 00:03:27.210 prior to diligent, I helped to get a company off the ground called board 51 00:03:27.250 --> 00:03:30.569 effect, which was acquired by diligent at the end of two thousand and sixteen, 52 00:03:30.610 --> 00:03:32.729 and I had the great good fortune at that time to be asked if 53 00:03:32.770 --> 00:03:37.370 I'd like to come and join the diligent team and sort of help with the 54 00:03:37.490 --> 00:03:40.639 development of a thought leadership enterprise for diligent, and so that's what I'm doing 55 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:46.199 now. So it's been really exciting to get into this role and very rewarding 56 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:49.840 to be part of this exciting new venture at diligent. Yeah, it is 57 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:52.520 exciting and I can't wait to hear more about it because here's the thing. 58 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:58.909 Right everybody and their little cousin is talking about thought leadership and they're doing it 59 00:03:59.590 --> 00:04:03.550 at the individual level of folks making use of Linkedin and you see certain folks 60 00:04:03.629 --> 00:04:10.099 within an organization trying to advance that initiative or maybe even you know, at 61 00:04:10.180 --> 00:04:14.780 the s sweet level, folks throwing budget at it but not being as intentional 62 00:04:14.900 --> 00:04:19.139 was saying, Hey, we're going to have someone who owns this endeavor as 63 00:04:19.180 --> 00:04:23.100 a rule. So talk a little bit about out, Dott, about why 64 00:04:23.139 --> 00:04:26.490 you guys felt it was important to do to take that step. Yeah, 65 00:04:26.529 --> 00:04:28.529 absolutely. I mean, and you're so right, nick, given it can 66 00:04:28.529 --> 00:04:31.449 happen at lots of different levels, but you know, it's so much better 67 00:04:32.050 --> 00:04:36.730 when you think about it as a very intentional approach and very intentional project. 68 00:04:36.769 --> 00:04:40.879 And the reason that's so much better and a really I think the way that 69 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:45.560 company should think about going is that when you are in a particular field, 70 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:49.319 you will acquire knowledge and information about that field that is going to be unique 71 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:53.949 and different from really anyone else in the world. There is something that you 72 00:04:54.110 --> 00:04:57.350 know. It doesn't really matter what business your company is in. There is 73 00:04:57.430 --> 00:05:00.629 something that you know or has have gotten to know that is different and special 74 00:05:01.110 --> 00:05:06.620 from others, and so if you can turn that special something into content that 75 00:05:06.740 --> 00:05:11.699 is of interest to your market, you can really kind of corner the conversation 76 00:05:12.139 --> 00:05:16.540 on that topic and then you can be your company can become associated with being 77 00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:23.850 very knowledgeable and being very authentic and genuine in providing educational information about that topic, 78 00:05:24.410 --> 00:05:28.970 and that's that's exceptionally important for brand recognition. It also just helps to 79 00:05:29.009 --> 00:05:31.689 build trust with your customer base, because what they really want first and foremost 80 00:05:31.730 --> 00:05:35.560 every be to be business. We all want customers that want to partner with 81 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:39.000 us right. We don't want them just to come and buy from US one 82 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:42.079 time. We want them to come back to us, we want them to 83 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:45.399 work with us and we want to educate them, we want them to educate 84 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:47.720 us. We want that to be a partnership and in order to develop that 85 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:51.230 kind of a relationship with your customers, you really have to build trust, 86 00:05:51.310 --> 00:05:56.310 and one of the best ways to build trust is to provide something of value 87 00:05:56.790 --> 00:06:00.750 that people you know, recognize has value and to do it in an authentic 88 00:06:00.790 --> 00:06:03.149 way. And I think thought leadership is really at the center of all of 89 00:06:03.300 --> 00:06:06.259 that. And I'll give you a quick example. One of the things that 90 00:06:06.339 --> 00:06:11.980 we're doing it diligent right now is talking about what what we're calling modern governance, 91 00:06:12.339 --> 00:06:15.139 which is really, you know, board governance has been the same really 92 00:06:15.180 --> 00:06:18.490 going all the way back to the s when the Bank of England first sort 93 00:06:18.529 --> 00:06:23.009 of defined what corporate governance would look like. And so, you know, 94 00:06:23.129 --> 00:06:26.129 here we are, it's two thousand and nineteen and we're still kind of using 95 00:06:26.170 --> 00:06:29.209 a system that came into place in the S. or I made was the 96 00:06:29.290 --> 00:06:31.920 s in the Bank of England. And so we've been saying, you know, 97 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:35.800 we don't really live in that world anymore. There are these things called 98 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:41.079 twitter Linkedin, you know, all these different ways that we get information. 99 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:44.399 Now I'm in in particular, if I think about twitter. Right, if 100 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:46.149 you're a corporate leader these days, you could walk in one morning and there 101 00:06:46.189 --> 00:06:50.509 could be a Hashtag me to tweet that will completely upend every plan you had 102 00:06:50.629 --> 00:06:55.550 for the next four months. Right. So so you know, we have 103 00:06:55.709 --> 00:06:59.470 to we have to really modernize governance to fit the reality that we live in. 104 00:06:59.870 --> 00:07:01.579 So we've been talking a lot about this idea of modern governance. And 105 00:07:01.660 --> 00:07:05.220 modern governance is not like the name of a product that we sell or the 106 00:07:05.259 --> 00:07:10.019 name of a piece of software that we have. It's really an idea around 107 00:07:10.459 --> 00:07:13.500 the work that we do. And so as we're starting to talk about this 108 00:07:13.620 --> 00:07:15.170 idea of modern governance, really the only way to do it is to talk 109 00:07:15.209 --> 00:07:17.769 about, well, what our board practices? What do they look like? 110 00:07:17.970 --> 00:07:21.209 What have they looked like? How are they evolving? Let's talk to directors, 111 00:07:21.290 --> 00:07:26.370 what do they think is happening? All of that becomes thought leadership and 112 00:07:26.529 --> 00:07:29.850 so it's not, you know, it doesn't have a one one direct correlation 113 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:33.600 to some type of the sales play. It's all about how do we teach 114 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:38.199 the market what we are learning? You know, we have this incredible access 115 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:43.160 to this huge group of leaders. Well, that should hopefully lend some knowledge 116 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:45.990 to us. So how do we take that knowledge and make it useful to 117 00:07:46.069 --> 00:07:48.389 our market and share it back out with people? Yeah, that that last 118 00:07:48.509 --> 00:07:54.430 piece is sort of at the center, certainly at the center of why sue 119 00:07:54.550 --> 00:07:57.149 fish media exists. I mean, I'll right, that's the question. Right 120 00:07:57.230 --> 00:08:00.500 exactly? We have access to leaders. How do we take this and and 121 00:08:00.660 --> 00:08:05.579 make it something valuable? And you know, question problem into my head when 122 00:08:05.660 --> 00:08:09.740 I talk to marketers every day on this show and when I talk to market 123 00:08:09.779 --> 00:08:13.170 as we do talk about thought leadership and I'm interested in what you think is 124 00:08:13.250 --> 00:08:20.050 the difference between the way a dedicated vp of thought leadership approaches branding and thought 125 00:08:20.089 --> 00:08:24.930 leadership versus the way it would look under or the way you see it look 126 00:08:24.970 --> 00:08:28.199 under the marketing umbrella. What are some of the differences there? Yeah, 127 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:30.800 so that's really interesting. I mean so so as a company. So I 128 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:35.240 actually am part of the marketing team, but in a sort of a separate 129 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:39.440 Stilo from what we would call sort of our our demand generation unit, which 130 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:41.309 is all about kind of creating content, about building demand, you know, 131 00:08:41.629 --> 00:08:46.190 providing things that really interest people and kind of drive them to our websites and 132 00:08:46.230 --> 00:08:50.750 things like that. And thought leadership works very closely with that team. I 133 00:08:50.830 --> 00:08:52.789 mean we were, you know, very closely together, but we're a little 134 00:08:52.789 --> 00:08:56.980 bit different because I think what we're trying to do as a thought leadership team 135 00:08:56.659 --> 00:09:01.779 is try to figure out what is on the minds of the people that were 136 00:09:01.820 --> 00:09:07.299 working with and then try to provide them information of value on those issues related 137 00:09:07.340 --> 00:09:11.970 to things that we know that they may not know, and that's different, 138 00:09:11.049 --> 00:09:16.330 I would say, from doing something that is much more focused around sales and 139 00:09:16.409 --> 00:09:18.250 marketing, which would be let's tell them something, we want to tell them 140 00:09:18.289 --> 00:09:22.129 about us, right, so we're we're trying to say, Hey, we 141 00:09:22.289 --> 00:09:24.039 have this, we have this incredible access to information you might not have. 142 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:28.840 We know you're interested in this issue and here's what we can tell you about 143 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.360 that issue and that issue, whatever it is, may have nothing at all 144 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:35.519 to do with our software. They have nothing at all to do with anything 145 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:39.190 that we sell, but we know it's something on your mind and we have 146 00:09:39.350 --> 00:09:41.990 this incredible access and so we're going to provide that for you as a service, 147 00:09:43.230 --> 00:09:45.750 just as a way of saying we get you, we hear you, 148 00:09:45.870 --> 00:09:48.070 we know this is important and we're going to provide this to you. So 149 00:09:48.149 --> 00:09:50.029 it's just a little bit of a different mind. Yet this is so important 150 00:09:50.110 --> 00:09:54.779 and and what you're talking about is what I see this difference playing out. 151 00:09:54.820 --> 00:09:58.220 I think you and our talking off lot about but what happens on Linkedin, 152 00:09:58.460 --> 00:10:03.379 where you know you'll have there are those folks whose posts are whose posts in 153 00:10:03.580 --> 00:10:07.970 and whose content that is, and whose outreach on Linkedin is very obviously geared 154 00:10:09.009 --> 00:10:13.330 at getting folks to work with and having more of a one to one sales 155 00:10:13.370 --> 00:10:16.450 correlation, like you mentioned, and then there are those folks who was like, 156 00:10:16.809 --> 00:10:22.440 I'm interested in what folks in this industry are up against and how I 157 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:26.440 can help with that. So it is understanding that difference than one of the 158 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:31.399 ways that you and I talked about. As far as advancing a thought leadership 159 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:35.710 initiative. You know, as a difference from marketing initiatives is leveraging internal and 160 00:10:35.870 --> 00:10:39.350 expertal evangelists. Talk a little bit about that for me real quick? Yeah, 161 00:10:39.350 --> 00:10:41.669 I'm happy to, and I when I was, you know, just 162 00:10:41.750 --> 00:10:45.830 sort of wrapping up my final couple years with board, effect before we got 163 00:10:45.830 --> 00:10:48.909 acquired, I had sort of taken on the role of being our technology evangelist 164 00:10:48.990 --> 00:10:54.179 and then I started in that role at diligent and now really overseeing everything we're 165 00:10:54.179 --> 00:10:56.740 doing around that leadership. And you know, it's a it's a room that's 166 00:10:56.820 --> 00:11:01.340 very near and dear to my heart because it's a little bit of marketing, 167 00:11:01.419 --> 00:11:05.649 a little bit of sales, a little bit of partnerships and a lot of 168 00:11:05.929 --> 00:11:09.649 just helping people to connect with your company and your mission and your product in 169 00:11:09.730 --> 00:11:13.730 a meaningful and authentic way. Right. So it's and I think when you 170 00:11:13.889 --> 00:11:18.250 are creating evangelists, whether they are internal to your company, there people that 171 00:11:18.289 --> 00:11:20.919 work at your company or their customer of angelist people on the outside who just 172 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:26.240 become super excited about what you do and they can't wait to tell their friends 173 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:28.159 and family all about it. What you really want to try to do is 174 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:31.440 make sure two things. One is that it is absolutely authentic. It cannot 175 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.509 be fake. You really have to genuinely believe and have data to back up 176 00:11:35.750 --> 00:11:39.830 that what you are saying is accurate. So that's really really important, step 177 00:11:39.870 --> 00:11:43.590 number one. Step number two is it has to be something of value to 178 00:11:43.629 --> 00:11:46.580 the person you're speaking with, and I think that's that's a place where I 179 00:11:46.620 --> 00:11:50.179 see sometimes thought leadership going a little bit awry or things that is things that 180 00:11:50.220 --> 00:11:54.259 are called thought leadership that I would say they're probably not really thought leadership. 181 00:11:54.259 --> 00:11:58.940 They're more like Click Bait, right. You know, where it's, Hey, 182 00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:01.340 I'm going to say a bunch of words that I think you'll be interested 183 00:12:01.379 --> 00:12:03.529 in and when you click on them, there's not really a there there. 184 00:12:03.889 --> 00:12:07.409 It just ends up being kind of fluff and there's not really any real meat 185 00:12:07.490 --> 00:12:11.169 to it. I that's very different, in my mind, from what real 186 00:12:11.250 --> 00:12:13.649 thought leadership is. What real thought leadership is is I have something that I 187 00:12:13.889 --> 00:12:18.000 know because of my access to information or because of what I do for a 188 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:20.960 living, that I'm going to share with you that is meaningful to you, 189 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:24.639 because I know this is a topic that's on your mind and I'm not trying 190 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:26.960 to sell you something with it. I'm trying to help you, trying to 191 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:31.110 give you something you don't already know, and it's new. You know, 192 00:12:31.350 --> 00:12:33.669 some new information. It's not already been done somewhere else a thousand times, 193 00:12:35.110 --> 00:12:37.470 or it's a new spin on an old topic because I have a different perspective 194 00:12:37.509 --> 00:12:41.470 based on what I do for a living. Right so all of that can 195 00:12:41.549 --> 00:12:46.340 be broadcast through what I would say the evangelist channel, and that can be, 196 00:12:46.820 --> 00:12:50.139 you know, in presentations at conferences, it could be on podcasts, 197 00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:52.179 it could be on, you know, any type of a Webinar, and 198 00:12:52.539 --> 00:12:58.019 you can you can sort of take that that message of here's how you can 199 00:12:58.059 --> 00:13:01.570 connect to something that we know about, here's what we can offer back of 200 00:13:01.610 --> 00:13:05.129 value to you. And I'm going to tell you all this stuff not because 201 00:13:05.129 --> 00:13:07.570 I'm trying to sell you something thing right now, but because I want you 202 00:13:07.610 --> 00:13:11.049 to understand you can trust me and because you can trust me, you might 203 00:13:11.090 --> 00:13:13.879 be interested to know more about what I do. It's really about building that 204 00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:20.039 trust and building that Corpus of information that's helpful to people based on what they're 205 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:28.029 already interested in. Send extensive imagine it a spreadsheet filled with rows and rows 206 00:13:28.149 --> 00:13:31.629 of your sales enablement assets. You've devoted two years or organizing this masterpiece, 207 00:13:33.029 --> 00:13:37.110 only for it to stop making sense. This was Chad Tribu goes reality. 208 00:13:37.429 --> 00:13:41.659 As the head of sales enablement at glint, a linkedin company, he's responsible 209 00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:45.820 for instilling confidence in his sales reps and arming them with the information they need 210 00:13:46.220 --> 00:13:50.340 to do their jobs. However, when his glorious spreadsheet became too complex, 211 00:13:50.620 --> 00:13:54.820 he realized he needed a new system. That's when Chad turned to guru. 212 00:13:54.179 --> 00:13:58.009 With Guru, the knowledge you need to do your job finds you. Between 213 00:13:58.210 --> 00:14:03.490 Guru's Web interface, slack integration, mobile APP and browser extension, teams can 214 00:14:03.610 --> 00:14:09.000 easily search for verified knowledge without leaving their workflow. No more siload or staled 215 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:13.240 information. Guru acts as your single source of truth. For Chad, this 216 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:18.360 meant glent sales reps were left feeling more confident doing their jobs. See why 217 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:24.950 leading companies like glint, shopify, spotify, slack and more are using guru 218 00:14:24.350 --> 00:14:31.990 for their knowledge management needs. Visit BB growth dot get gurucom to start your 219 00:14:31.029 --> 00:14:37.429 thirty day free trial and discover how knowledge management can empower your revenue teams. 220 00:14:39.860 --> 00:14:43.620 Yeah, perfect sense and the question that comes to mind, though, because 221 00:14:43.620 --> 00:14:46.220 I know that a lot of the a lot of the conversations I'm having with 222 00:14:46.259 --> 00:14:50.299 with marketers, even those who are especially those who are talking about their own 223 00:14:50.299 --> 00:14:54.049 thought leadership initiatives, have not taken the step that you've taken. That's just 224 00:14:54.129 --> 00:14:56.490 flat out from the beginning thing. No, I am not trying to make 225 00:14:56.529 --> 00:15:01.610 a one to one sales correlation. So, in the absence of that, 226 00:15:01.850 --> 00:15:05.570 though, and in the absence of, you know, it being a demand 227 00:15:05.570 --> 00:15:09.960 Jin thing, how are we measuring? What are we what are we measuring? 228 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:11.879 How are we setting goals? How don't we know it's working? Yeah, 229 00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:15.120 that's a really important question. I mean it. And just to be 230 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.559 clear, I'm not saying that it's completely divorced of sales for it's so I 231 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:20.320 mean obviously we're we're all in business for a reason, like where. You 232 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:22.070 know, we're not just doing this for our health, right. So, 233 00:15:22.110 --> 00:15:24.990 so, I mean clearly, at the end of the day it should lead 234 00:15:26.070 --> 00:15:30.149 in some way back to some positive traction and in the numbers game. But 235 00:15:30.590 --> 00:15:31.710 but really I think one of the ways you can measure it a couple things. 236 00:15:31.750 --> 00:15:35.509 One is you can sort of measure share of voice so you can kind 237 00:15:35.509 --> 00:15:37.620 of look out in the market and see, you know, all the conversations 238 00:15:37.700 --> 00:15:41.340 happening on social media and in print media and you, etcetera, and sort 239 00:15:41.379 --> 00:15:45.980 of see, you know, all the different conversations happening around a particular topic. 240 00:15:46.179 --> 00:15:48.100 What percentage of those are a tread attributable back to you and to your 241 00:15:48.139 --> 00:15:52.570 efforts, and that can be a metric that you can use. Another way 242 00:15:52.649 --> 00:15:56.649 that you can sort of think about thought leadership as being important is just brand 243 00:15:56.769 --> 00:16:00.090 reputation. Right. So how does it positively impact your brand? Does it 244 00:16:00.889 --> 00:16:06.639 help people want to be part of your brand because what you're doing is so 245 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:11.120 interesting and so relevant to them and resonate so strongly with them that they're more 246 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:17.120 likely to be brand loyal and they're more likely to tell lots of people about 247 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:18.909 you? Right, you can look at your net promoter score like you should 248 00:16:18.909 --> 00:16:22.830 definitely be seeing it, you know, sort of a needle moving on the 249 00:16:22.909 --> 00:16:26.629 net promoter score. If people feel very strongly about your brand because everything you've 250 00:16:26.669 --> 00:16:30.190 been telling them and sharing with them is so positive and good and they can 251 00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:34.580 trust you, you know, it's going to make you more resilient if your 252 00:16:34.659 --> 00:16:38.379 product one day isn't a hundred percent perfect right. They're not going to be 253 00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:41.860 willing to just throw you out the door because of one glitch. They're going 254 00:16:41.899 --> 00:16:44.980 to say, well, okay, it was one little glitch. That's not 255 00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:48.090 awesome, but this is a good company and I can trust them and I 256 00:16:48.169 --> 00:16:51.490 believe in them and they give me lots of things of value, not just 257 00:16:51.690 --> 00:16:53.690 this one product. Right. So if it's really kind of you're looking at 258 00:16:53.730 --> 00:16:57.570 those metrics as much as you would look at any you know, you can 259 00:16:57.610 --> 00:17:02.480 also obviously take thought leadership and then use it for demand generations. So you 260 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:07.039 can really clearly make that pathway. Yeah, in the beginning that's not necessarily 261 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:08.440 the point, right. Yeah, and so the reason why I ask that 262 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:14.000 question is because one of my goals as a takeaway from this conversation for our 263 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:15.829 listeners. I think you've done a great job of giving them this was those 264 00:17:15.910 --> 00:17:19.470 folks who want to get started, I want them to feel or who want 265 00:17:19.470 --> 00:17:23.069 to lobby for this in their own organizations, I want them to feel armed 266 00:17:23.109 --> 00:17:26.509 with that kind of information, because these are the cons of questions that, 267 00:17:26.589 --> 00:17:27.670 if they're going to get pushed back, these a kind of questions folks are 268 00:17:27.670 --> 00:17:30.819 going to ask, right and Ye know that. That was my last question 269 00:17:30.859 --> 00:17:33.180 for you on the subject. Is, you know, what advice would you 270 00:17:33.220 --> 00:17:37.460 give for folks who are trying to start this fight, this good fight, 271 00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:40.779 and start this innitia about their own organization? Yeah, I would. I 272 00:17:40.819 --> 00:17:42.619 would say there's another so I'm glad you ask that question because there's another sort 273 00:17:42.619 --> 00:17:47.650 of important component to this that is helpful to just mention, and that is 274 00:17:48.170 --> 00:17:52.849 the utility of having a thought leadership enterprise for the internal team as well. 275 00:17:52.049 --> 00:17:56.369 And I don't give an example, right. So our sales team spends a 276 00:17:56.410 --> 00:18:02.440 lot of time speaking with perspective customers about our software and hopefully engaging with them 277 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:04.440 to try to get them to implement the software with their board of directors. 278 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:10.200 Now, not a lot of our sales team members have a twenty year experience 279 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:12.630 in board governance, right. So you know they'll be on the phone with 280 00:18:12.710 --> 00:18:18.309 a company Secretary or General Council and they are experts in our software, but 281 00:18:18.390 --> 00:18:21.750 they might not know all the INS and outs of exactly what those folks do 282 00:18:22.109 --> 00:18:26.190 on a daily basis and they might not really fully understand a question that they 283 00:18:26.230 --> 00:18:29.339 get asked. Right, they might get asked a question about some very specific 284 00:18:29.460 --> 00:18:30.859 issue that that person is dealing with and they want to know how to do 285 00:18:32.059 --> 00:18:34.339 this in the software and they might get stuck. And so one of the 286 00:18:34.420 --> 00:18:38.539 other benefits of having thought leadership is then it gives the internal sales team a 287 00:18:38.660 --> 00:18:44.809 place to turn where they can a educate themselves more about your market, but 288 00:18:44.970 --> 00:18:48.529 they give them other things to talk about. Right, because if all sales 289 00:18:48.569 --> 00:18:52.049 people are doing is just talking about here's this nice button that you press and 290 00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:55.650 here's what it does when you press it, that's not going to really create 291 00:18:55.759 --> 00:18:59.880 that positive brand feeling for the customer. It's not going to build customer loyalty, 292 00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:03.319 it's not going to build customer evangelists, it's not going to really give 293 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:07.559 you that that same stickiness that you want. Versus if the person's having a 294 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:10.549 conversation of Hey, you know, we just did this research report out of 295 00:19:10.589 --> 00:19:14.750 our institute and it found, you know, expercent of people like you have 296 00:19:14.950 --> 00:19:18.309 this experience. And here's what we think is really important about that. And, 297 00:19:18.630 --> 00:19:21.230 by the way, that's one of the reasons that our software does the 298 00:19:21.269 --> 00:19:25.059 following. Yeah, that's it. That's a dramatically different conversation and it's going 299 00:19:25.099 --> 00:19:29.339 to make the customer feel so much better that they're working with a company that 300 00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:34.180 thinks in this way and that is investing in providing that kind of intelligence that 301 00:19:34.299 --> 00:19:37.970 they can actually benefit from. But it's also they're benefiting from the fact that 302 00:19:38.049 --> 00:19:42.369 they're now working with a salesperson that knows this and can say it with confidence. 303 00:19:42.450 --> 00:19:45.009 So I think there's a there's a sort of a whole other component of 304 00:19:45.089 --> 00:19:48.529 thought leadership, which is how it benefits the company, how it benefits the 305 00:19:48.609 --> 00:19:52.400 internal team. I mean absolutely. I've seen. There's a company I worked 306 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:57.119 for. It used to be called kinser. It's a healthcare software, a 307 00:19:57.319 --> 00:20:02.480 Mr software, now called wells guide. They've blown up super successful folks and 308 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:06.079 one of the things they built this company on before thought leadership became such a 309 00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:08.990 buzzy term, was doing just that. was offering, like you're talking about, 310 00:20:10.349 --> 00:20:15.029 valuable resources that came from this really deep understanding about what the Daytoday was 311 00:20:15.430 --> 00:20:19.950 of folks working in that industry at every level. And you're so right about 312 00:20:21.390 --> 00:20:23.299 what the way that it armed we as sales people, for instance, if 313 00:20:23.299 --> 00:20:26.180 they were having a a Webinar, right, that was part of this thought 314 00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:30.380 leadership initiative. Those folks, even the SDRs, which I was at, 315 00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:33.140 this institution of the organization were to sit in on these webinars. Yeah, 316 00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:37.329 that, like you're saying, it's there's a difference between I know my marketing 317 00:20:37.369 --> 00:20:40.369 team just released a new white paper. Is this is when we having a 318 00:20:40.410 --> 00:20:42.170 conversation. Someone asked me a question. To be saying no, I'll see 319 00:20:42.170 --> 00:20:48.490 email you just white paper by me being able to intelligently speak to the problems 320 00:20:48.529 --> 00:20:52.960 that these people face or intelligently say exactly where the industry is going next. 321 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.119 So that, I think, is so key is thought, the the thought 322 00:20:56.160 --> 00:21:00.799 leadership of vp of thought leadership, with the Thought Leadership Department itself, modeling 323 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:04.829 for sales people and for the sales team how to talk about what it's really 324 00:21:04.990 --> 00:21:10.470 like at the right ground level in in those organization. So this is so 325 00:21:10.630 --> 00:21:12.470 good. Yeah, I mean in a way it's almost just kind of giving 326 00:21:12.509 --> 00:21:15.990 back, right. It's like, Hey, we are learning so much by 327 00:21:15.069 --> 00:21:18.579 working with this massive market, we got to give something back, like there's 328 00:21:18.579 --> 00:21:21.819 got to be something that we can do to share what we're learning, and 329 00:21:21.940 --> 00:21:26.819 I think that sharing happens both internally and externally. I mean it helps everyone. 330 00:21:26.859 --> 00:21:30.299 It helps the customer, helps the company, it helps the salespeople if 331 00:21:30.380 --> 00:21:32.930 we all just get a little smarter, you know, if we all just 332 00:21:33.130 --> 00:21:36.250 know a little bit more about the market that we're working in. So I 333 00:21:36.369 --> 00:21:38.009 feel like it's a kind of discipline that, you know, may not always 334 00:21:38.009 --> 00:21:41.410 be obvious to people why you would invest in it, but once you have 335 00:21:41.609 --> 00:21:47.400 it and you see the power that is that is truly inherent in having a 336 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:51.359 strong sight leadership discipline, it's hard to live without it, you know, 337 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:56.759 because you realize how much, how much more attractive your company has become by 338 00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:03.670 being the one that knows stuff and can share it articulately. Absolutely, I'm 339 00:22:03.710 --> 00:22:06.069 so I love it. This was perfect. Like I said, I think 340 00:22:06.589 --> 00:22:08.589 everything that I wanted folks to get out of this conversation and take into their 341 00:22:08.630 --> 00:22:14.109 respective organizations. You've done a masterful job at giving us that, and it's 342 00:22:14.109 --> 00:22:21.500 been fun to because get one or the all right, so, how one 343 00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:26.099 of my favorite parts of the Bay gross shows when, after I've finished picking 344 00:22:26.140 --> 00:22:27.779 your brain and CEF get out of it, I am going to find out 345 00:22:27.859 --> 00:22:30.890 what you put in it. DOTTY. What have you been what have you 346 00:22:30.930 --> 00:22:34.170 been reading? What learning resource of you've been engaging with these days? That's 347 00:22:34.529 --> 00:22:38.049 got too excited, or is informing your approach. Well, so, Nikki, 348 00:22:38.089 --> 00:22:41.769 I hate to be a little bit selfserving, but I have to tell 349 00:22:41.809 --> 00:22:44.519 you that this is really the gods on his truth. I've been reading my 350 00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:48.880 own book. So, and I really do mean this, because I've been 351 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:52.359 on a global book tour for the last five weeks. So, well, 352 00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.920 let's see this. So I've really has been reading it because I've had to 353 00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:57.480 talk about it a lot. But so the book that we wrote is the 354 00:22:57.950 --> 00:23:02.190 governance in the digital age, a guide for the modern corporate board director, 355 00:23:02.670 --> 00:23:06.710 and really this is a book that I've been thinking about writing for about fifteen 356 00:23:06.789 --> 00:23:08.390 years. What we tried to do was, you know, again, we 357 00:23:08.470 --> 00:23:11.900 work with all of these organizations all around the world. We work with their 358 00:23:11.980 --> 00:23:18.539 corporate leaders. We wanted to understand what is changing about corporate governance in this 359 00:23:18.740 --> 00:23:22.019 time when information moves at the speed of a tweet, and we really wanted 360 00:23:22.059 --> 00:23:26.730 to know how our boards dealing with this and and are there any lessons learned 361 00:23:26.890 --> 00:23:30.410 that we can use? So so we did a lot of research, we 362 00:23:30.529 --> 00:23:33.170 did a lot of interviews with people. We wanted to understand what's working. 363 00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:37.329 I feel like there's a lot of stuff written about what goes badly wrong. 364 00:23:37.690 --> 00:23:40.930 There's not nearly enough steff written about what goes right, so we tried to 365 00:23:41.210 --> 00:23:44.559 even that score a little bit by writing this book and trying to provide some 366 00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:47.759 examples of things that can go right. So not to be too selfserving, 367 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:49.880 but this is actually what I've been spending a lot of time talking about, 368 00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:53.480 it thinking about, but the last several months. That's I'm witting get it 369 00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:57.990 girl governance, and it does age. Okay, I know that, like 370 00:23:59.269 --> 00:24:02.109 me, folks listening this is going to be inspired. I want to follow 371 00:24:02.109 --> 00:24:06.150 along with the content that you are putting out. As the thought leader and 372 00:24:06.269 --> 00:24:10.339 VP of thought leadership for diligent. How can folks best connect with you, 373 00:24:10.539 --> 00:24:12.859 dotty? Yeah, so I'm pretty easily available. So a couple things. 374 00:24:14.380 --> 00:24:17.980 You can connect with me on Linkedin. If you just look for Gove Tech 375 00:24:18.059 --> 00:24:21.220 Geek, you'll find me on linkedin. That's also my twitter handle, so 376 00:24:21.339 --> 00:24:25.170 gove Tech Geek. And then I'd also encourage you to check out the corporate 377 00:24:25.170 --> 00:24:29.329 director podcast. So you can find us at director pod. You can send 378 00:24:29.329 --> 00:24:33.650 an email to podcast at diligentcom or two thought leaders at diligentcom. Any one 379 00:24:33.650 --> 00:24:37.450 of those ways you will you will find me and to be happy to connect 380 00:24:37.450 --> 00:24:40.240 with you. Sweet I'm going to do it right away. One last question 381 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:42.480 behind you, because you guys can't see this right because the podcast, but 382 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:45.480 we each have bookshows behind on us and I just noticed. Does that say? 383 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:49.400 Is that a Philadelphia Eagles fandom thing behind you? Oh Yeah, Oh 384 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:53.230 yeah, okay, so let me just get closer this termer. I am 385 00:24:53.309 --> 00:24:59.349 wearing my Dallas Cowboys Oh, we were so close to being good something. 386 00:24:59.430 --> 00:25:03.190 You were here, dotty, and then I know. Well, okay and 387 00:25:03.309 --> 00:25:07.109 all fairness, I have to come clean. So my husband worked for the 388 00:25:07.180 --> 00:25:11.779 team for about seven years and and during that time I actually was the voice 389 00:25:11.819 --> 00:25:15.980 of an animated character for their weekly kids show. So so I have a 390 00:25:15.059 --> 00:25:18.019 bunch of stuff on my shelf from from what I did that Gig for about 391 00:25:18.019 --> 00:25:22.930 six years, the kids clubs. Right, yeah, it's not football seasons, 392 00:25:22.970 --> 00:25:26.569 though we're still friends, but uh you. Thank you so much, 393 00:25:26.690 --> 00:25:30.170 dotty. This was a blast and I can't wait to see, you know, 394 00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:33.809 what other folks do with what you what you've given us here, and 395 00:25:33.210 --> 00:25:36.680 what you guys are able to do with with you at the helm of a 396 00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:38.440 thought leadership. They're are diligent. Thank you so much. Thank you, 397 00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:41.599 nick. It was a real pleasure. Thank you so much for having me 398 00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:47.559 on the podcast. We totally get it. We publish a ton of content 399 00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:49.990 on this podcast and it can be a lot to keep up with. That's 400 00:25:51.029 --> 00:25:55.710 why we've started the BETB growth big three, a no fluff email that boils 401 00:25:55.789 --> 00:26:00.589 down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. Sign up today 402 00:26:00.589 --> 00:26:07.460 at Sweet Fish Mediacom big three. That's sweet fish Mediacom big three.