Transcript
WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to the BDB grows
show monthly book talk. I'm Douglas,
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for that, host to the marketing
book podcast, where each week I published
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an interview with the author of a
new marketing or sales book to help me
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and my listeners keep up with the
latest ideas in the quickly changing world of
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marketing and sales. Joining me is
my friend James Mrror, author of the
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perfect clothes the secret to closing sales. In this monthly episode of the BEDB
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Growth Show we recap some of the
key ideas from the marketing and sales books
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recently featured on the marketing book podcast. I read every book featured on the
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Marketing Book Podcast, but James Reads
even more books than I do and he
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listens to every episode of the Marketing
Book Podcast. So I'm delighted that he
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can join me and if either of
US can recommend any marketing or sales books
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or other resources for whatever situation you
find yourself in and what you like to
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learn more about, please feel free
to connect with us on linkedin where we
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can chat and we'll do our best
to point you in the right direction.
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James, welcome back to this month's
be to be gross show book talk.
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Thank you, my friend. I
read every book and I listened to every
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episode because they're awesome and in this
episode of both opera. Yeah, well,
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I appreciate it. I'm glad to
know who that one listener is in
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Utah. I'm the guy. I'm
the guy. I download every episode.
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In this episode of Book Talk We're
going to talk about four recent books featured
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on the marketing book podcast, which
our first the non obvious guy to virtual
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meetings and remote work when you just
can't be there in person, by row
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hit Bargaba. Also, stories that
stick. How storytelling can captivate customers,
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influence audiences and transform your business by
Kendra Hall. Also the new rules of
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marketing and PR how to use content
marketing, podcasting, social media, AI,
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live video and news jacking to reach
buyers directly, in its seventh edition
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by David Merriman Scott, and finally, how to sell in place, closing
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deals in the new normal, by
Tom Sercy and Kara Jeane. For so
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first up we've got the non obvious
guide to virtual meetings and remote work when
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you just can't be there in person, by row hit Bargaba. Now,
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this book is is actually a lot
more than I thought it was going to
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be. Touches on a lot of
different topics. Also, row hit is
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a member of the marketing book podcast
six Timer Club. YEA, so tell
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us a little bit about the non
obvious guy to virtual meetings and remote work
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and your interview with Rohit. So
there are now two members of the marketing
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podcast six timers club. The first
was Mark Shaffer and he's the King of
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the marketing book podcast. By row
hit is now in that same resulted addition,
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yes, rarefied air, and part
of that is because for ten years
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he wrote an updated book each year
about the trends that he curates, and
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he capped off those ten years with
the the best selling non obvious mega trends
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and books. He's also a publisher
and that's why he's been on so much
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and I've been fortunate enough to have
him as a guest. This book was
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rushed to market. We joked.
I said, Oh wow, it's like
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you know it was coming, because
no, no, we wrote, he
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is a rand guy, he is
a trend. That's right, that's true,
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that's true. Yeah, he wrote
it and he had a number of
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people help contribute to it, but
it was extremely timely and I had to
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move them up to the very top
of the of the list to get him
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on the show. And the book
was really Super Helpful and it talks about
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sort of our present situation for a
lot of people. You know, he
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talks about, you know, the
different types of technology should be doing,
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the distractions in your life right now
if you're working virtually that a lot of
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people don't quite realize, and the
issues of loneliness and isolation and how to
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collaborate with people you may not be
meeting or maybe you've never met, and
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how to prevent conflicts and, you
know, amp up your emotional intelligence in
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terms of working remotely. But all
kinds of really helpful, interesting things.
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And the book is free. If
you go to non obviouscom virtual you can
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download it for free. It's really
you really would be not doing yourself any
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favors if you don't go download this. You can buy the printed version.
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So the book talks about all these
challenges of working remotely and as I read
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through it, I could think you
know every single one of them, you
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know, like the things that I
was talking about. You know, but
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also goes into details about meetings and
the the different ways that you are hamstrung
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by not working with people directly.
And there's all some funny things where he
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talks about the three great enemies of
working from home are the fridge, the
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bed and the TV. But true
words never spoken. Yeah, he talks
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about, you know, sort of
the rule meetings, really, you know,
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really important things that you should be
doing, and it's a lot of
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things that people don't realize they're doing
that is really hurting them, like not
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being on time or not using the
mute button, you know, not being
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in crummy audio, using crummy audio. Yeah, get a headset. There's
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like a twenty five dollar headset that
you can get and the reason why is
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twofold one. Is that when you
use a headset, people can hear you
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better and if they don't hear you, they're not going to say I didn't
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hear you. But also when you
have the headset on, you're able to
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hear them better. It talks about
all these examples of people saying, Oh,
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can you repeat that? You know, can can you repeat that?
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All that sort of thing. Talks
about, you know, dressing appropriately and
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you know things like that, and
it's a good reminder that so much of
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our communication, what we normally used
for communication is stripped out by all this
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technology. You know, you can't
hear people as well, you can't see
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him as well, you can't see
their eyes as well, you can't see
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their you know their body language,
and basically he does a whole back though.
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He talks about why virtual meetings suck. So just accept that up front,
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okay, and any goes into,
you know, some of the things
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that that you can do to make
them them better. But it was really,
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yeah, quite a bit packed in
there. It was. There's a
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lot of content in the farthest surprise
me was talking about writing and how important
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that is, you know, and
being clear when you respond. I mean
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there's there's definitely a value in responding
in a terse way, but when you
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respond in a nebulous way like yes, and it was a multiple choice question,
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it doesn't really help much. Yeah, yeah, he talks about the
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secret to better communications and I know
everyone wants to think of it as some
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pill you can take, but it's
to become a better writer and it doesn't
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mean to become a perfect rider.
Just strive to be a little bit better.
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And what a couple of things you
mentioned in there are like right,
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like you talk, and so many
people don't do that. But if you
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just read these things out loud,
it helps quite a bit. And he
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says, use just enough words.
But the other one is strive for clarity.
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Don't try to be clever, just
try to be a clear and understand
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that when you're writing you are not
having the benefit of all the other ways
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that we interpret communication from other people. Yep, great part. And of
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course it wouldn't be a ro hid
BARGABA book if it didn't have some trends
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in it. So he you know, after giving his rules for for Building
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Trust remotely with teams, which is
a whole another section of the book I
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thought was very good and surprising and
broad in its value, you give us
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some trends, of course, because
it wouldn't be a row hit book without
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some trends. That's right. Got
The amplified identity, instant knowledge, revivalism,
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human mode and flux commerce that he
needs. Someone needs to give him
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a dollar for that term. YEA, and those are all things that he
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talked about in his previous trends.
Yeah, exactly. The lines blurring between
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businesses. That's an INN business areas. That's what he means by that.
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Yeah, I would urge people not
to take for granted the difference in this
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virtual world versus when we were a
lot of us were back in an office
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and I read through that I was
like, Oh Gosh, I've been doing
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that. I didn't realize that.
But there's also there's a lot of differences
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seem very subtle, but there's certain
things that you should be doing to make
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sure that you're better understood and to
also enable others to communicate more effectively with
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you. Yep, his one principle, well, of course he gave us
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a one takeaway, but he has
his own principle, which is always be
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curious, right. Yeah, and
then his one takeaway, not surprising on
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this one, is that if working
remote, when you do it right,
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can actually be very productive. And
the one thing he suggested that the listeners
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do is to get better at understanding
the Automo way that you personally work.
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So I love this book. It's
really it's more than a book, it's
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more like a crash course on you
know, and end uth advice on how
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to read tool and conduct virtual business
successfully. So really great book. Yeah,
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all right. Well, next up
we've got stories that stick how storytelling
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can captivate customers, influence audiences and
transform your business by Kinderhal and her writing
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is just absolutely captivating right. This
is a very well written book and very
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engaging in the pacing is very good. I think almost anybody could benefit from
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reading this particular books. It tell
us about your interview with kindred yes,
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and you can also tell, as
I do, that she's a really successful
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public speaker. There they tend to
be good writer. Hey tend to be
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good writers because they've practiced their talks
so much and they understand pacing and they
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have, I think, a deeper
sense of the audience with the audience is
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doing so anyway, it was a
great book. A storytelling is one of
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those topics that's enormously powerful, particularly
on the subconscious level, but it's very
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misunderstood and it's also one of those
terms that I think marketers need to be
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careful talking about when they're around civilians, and when I mean civilians I mean
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anyone outside their marketing department, like
people like James Muir, who might be
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a head of sales or the CEO. Just these things are very important,
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but you really got to be careful
what you're I would urge you to be
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careful unless you everyone knows what you're
talking about, because a lot of people
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think stories are something you make up
and it's a fairy tale and it's not
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at all what it is. And
she goes into the science of why our
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brains like stories. Stories. Information
conveyed in story format is much, much
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more recalled and retained by the human
brain and there are different models for storytelling.
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If you think of I think it's
Joseph Campbell who has the heroes journey
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that we all hear about, which
I believe George Lucas followed to a tea
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when he created all his star wars
movies. It has seventeen steps and I
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just can't remember all of them.
And there's some other books out there.
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Sempill find that a bit yeah,
like like Donald Miller's story brand book.
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He gets it down to seven you
know, do a really good job,
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and she gets it down to like
three things for for what she says you've
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got to have. There's eyes.
Actually two things. I'm talking about where
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she says you you do have to
have identifiable characters right, and she's wary
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if people keep talking about the hero. He goes in on. Not everybody
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a story. The hero, it's
a person that you can relate to,
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but they're not wearing a cape.
And then so that you got to have
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this identifiable character, you have to
have an authentic emotion and a significant moment
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where they realize something. And the
other thing I was thinking about was her
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storytelling framework has only three parts.
That's what I was going to talk about,
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where she says, you know,
if you can't remember anything else when
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you're telling a story, she explains
it as normal, explosion, new normal.
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So you know, there was some
thing, you know, once upon
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a time, such and such was, you know, our customers were having
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you know, they are this is
what was going on, and then one
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day something happened and then they found
this product or whatever, and then there
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was this new things were different after
that. So, you know, I'm
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a big fan of simplicity and I'm
still doing everything I can to try to
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understand this, the the story format. But she then talks in the book
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about the different types of stories that
pretty much every company should have, and
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every company does have them, and
she talks about the value story like,
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for instance, some of them sock
of course. Yeah, yeah, a
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lot of companies don't know how to
do them right. But just read this
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book and you're like, you're about
us. Page on your website could be
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transformed dramatically if you put it in
a story format. You can almost have
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the same number of words, but
you put it in a human story.
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And one of them she talks about
is the value story, and that's where
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you tell a story, mean a
real thing that happened, where people then
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understand what you do and the value
that you bring to another company. And
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it's enormously effective for salespeople. And
you know, there's some other she had
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in there, like the customer story, which is why favorite, where you
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tell a story, again, a
true story about a customer, but you
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present it in a certain order so
that people see themselves in that story.
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And customer stories are the most difficult
to do and they're usually not done very
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well, but when they're done correctly, like she shows in, you know,
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a few pages in her book,
You understand that and you think,
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oh my goodness, why am I? Why have I not been doing that?
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So it was. It's a terrific
book and I continue to enjoy reading
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books about presenting information in a story
format. Yeah, it seems like,
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yeah, each of these serations that
these books on storytelling or refining it down
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and getting more of the science,
and I was. I was interested in
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that part that talks about how stories
activate Oxytocin, which makes us feel connected.
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Yeah, and so there's a little
bit of science behind that at interesting.
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She thought. The biggest barrier is
is assuming you don't have a story.
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That's the problem this. You think
you don't have a story, but
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if you look at it in the
right way you'll discover that you do.
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Yeah, that's why I was saying
everybody has them, and she but you
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know, she's a storytelling expert,
so she hears from a lot of people
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who say, well, that's great, but we just don't have those stories.
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Is You too? It's right there, unless it's to the the immaculate
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conceptions. Yeah, so I know
where you have a story. Yeah,
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you do, and you can.
Actually it's another one of those books where
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the concept is presented so well and
so clearly and simply that you have to
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be carefully not smacking yourself on the
forehead saying, Gosh, why we're not
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doing this before? Well, on
the way she's written and all the illustrations
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and all the stories in that it
demons to rate. The principles are excellence.
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So I it's it's super easy read
her. Her takeaway here was she
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has something called bridging the gap,
the concept she called bridging the gap,
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and you know, her simple takeaway
was, hey, no, when you
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are actually bridging the gap with your
story, that tell they''ll tell you where
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you're getting it right or not.
And the things you thought listeners could do
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is if you got an upcoming communication
of sometime you got a presentation or something
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like that, just, you know, stop for a second and ask yourself
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if there's some story that you can
use to enhance your message. So,
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like I said at the beginning,
I think every person in business could appreciate
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this book, whether you're in sales
or marketing or counting or you name it.
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Yeah, after it from better storytelling
or even just, you know,
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dealing with your neighbors or your family. You know, present information a story
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format and you'll be amazed and how
much more they pay attention to you,
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which is least for my family members. That's always a challenge. MASSIBOVE grade.
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All right. Well, next up
we've got the new rules of marketing
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and PR how to use content marketing, podcasting, social media, AI,
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live video and news jacking to reach
buyers directly. This is a seventh edition
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by the Godfather of the marketing book
podcast, David Meerman Scott. So tell
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us a little bit. I mean
he's been on the podcast. I've seen
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your four or five times as well. I think I've times now. Yeah,
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so. So tell us about your
interview with David. This is one
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of two books that's had the biggest
impact on my career. The other one
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was Ogilvie on advertising, which I
read in the s and then I went
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into advertising for many years and then
later in my career that whole ad game
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was kind of crashing and burning.
If everybody's rules right, yeah, the
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old rules of advertising still worked really
well, I'd still be doing it.
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But I read his book. One
of the earlier editions in real world was
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going and it just had an enormous
impact on me and I've read several editions
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of it. He comes out with
a new and every two or three years.
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It's now and about thirty languages.
It's a best seller. It's used
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in a lot of universities and if
that's the book that I often recommend for
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people who say, look, I'm
new to marketing, or what's one book
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I could read to understand about modern
marketing? That's the book I always recommend
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and I always urge people to get
the latest addition. It's about four hundred
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pages. It's a very good value. It's extremely well written. So he
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wrote the first edition in two thousand
and seven, the year the iphone came
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out, and now he's just updated
it and it just gets better and better
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and better. What's also interesting to
me is what does he added and what
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is he dropped, because every time
he comes out with it he has to
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he drops a few chapters which are
no longer relevant. Maybe it's something that
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is just baked into the larger marketing
in PR world. Like I think it
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a few years ago he dropped the
chapter on mobile marketing because it had just
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become you've been with us, yeah, you cookitous. So things like that,
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and it's it's so we should probably
tell them what's in the what's new
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in the book. So there's a
chapter on AI, there's a new chapter
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on voice searching, there's a ton
of new story. He's in illustrations in
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the book and then he we joked
a little bit about on the podcast about
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Google plus. Right, yes,
he's robbed Google bluck. Yeah, evaporating.
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Right. So there's no need to
google plus anymore. So and you
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know, there's a tie in there
to something else he least he said in
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the interview, which is is that
you want to kind of own your own
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real estate blogging. Wise, if
it's not a platform, Yo, you
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would think the Google is about as
permanent as you could get out there.
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And yet it it evaporated. So
you better on your own the Google plus.
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Yeah, yeah, and I invested
all my money and that. No,
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I'm just kidding up. Basically,
what he talks about, the spirit
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of what he talks about is the
old rules and the new rules. And
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he's not saying the old rules don't
work, they just don't work as well
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and they are increasingly less effective.
And the the the big divide. All
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you need to understand is in the
past, the way that you could get
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at tension was to buy attention.
Back when I go out, back when
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I was an act guy, and
it worked beautifully. We had captive audiences
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and they had to watch our damn
commercials. Well, that's gone away and
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and actually also when you wanted.
You know, when my dad wanted to
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buy a car, where did they
have to go first? You had to
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go to the dealership because that's where
the information was. A few years ago,
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where do you think the last place
was my wife went to get information
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when she wanted to buy a new
car? Probably the dealership. That would
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probably the last stop. Wrong,
her husband. Oh, but the dealers
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ship before that. Yeah, the
poor guy trying to sell the car.
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She waited till I was out of
town and a football game and she started
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texting me asking me about monthly payments. I was like wow, what are
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you talking about? Where are you
at? So anyway you would you people
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don't really want to go to the
seller to get information anymore. They maybe
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until later. So and Wan.
They can educate themselves elsewhere. They can
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get the information elsewhere, social media, Internet, so forth, so on.
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So you could buy attention, but
you can't really buy at tension that
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well anymore. People are actively avoiding
advertising. People are paying money to avoid
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advertising. Okay, the other thing
you can do is you could beg for
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attention which was going through like a
media gatekeeper, you know, like an
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editor or well, back back when
all these back when all the messages were
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sent like through television, Radio News, you know, it was hard to
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get your message out unless you went
and begged for PR coverage and that was
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a whole skill set. Well,
now you can just go straight over their
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head. You still still work with
those folks, but the advertising supported media
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is much, much smaller, in
case anyone's noticed, the newspapers are a
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lot thinner, if they're still here. And the other thing was to bug
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people, you know, one at
a time. Your sales people can still
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try to bug people, but I
don't know, James Muir, you you're
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in the sales world. You probably
know it's a whole lot more difficult.
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Do you get through and an not
very scalable yeah, yeah, exactly.
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So I mean you can still still
try those things. But what he's saying
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is instead you publish helpful, interesting
content on the Internet and and the people
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that are interested that you can help
will come to you. And he's got
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about a Zillion case studies in the
book showing how that's done. And yet
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still people are resistant to it.
So the things that he keeps coming back
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to. You know, the strategy
never really changes. Some of the techniques
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and tactics or some of the techniques
and tools change. But he explains that
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to your point, James, you
have to own your domain on a website.
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In other words, don't be careful
building your your business presence on social
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media, because that's going to change. There can take that away from you.
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They candlist you, they can charge
you, like facebook does, to
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let more people see, let more
of your fans see what's there. For
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instance, if you post something to
your company page on facebook and you've got
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fans, facebook's only showing it to
about one percent of those people. You
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want for you got to pay facebook. It works well for Facebook, so
316
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you need that. That's what he
goes back saying. Look, it's you've
317
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got to have a website and you've
got to publish, you know, a
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blog or whatever you want to call
it, an educational section of your website
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that answers your customers questions. The
other thing it's really important is email marketing,
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you know, and also he covers
the water front saying everything you need
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to know. But even at the
end he says, look, I don't
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do all these things. You got
to figure out what's what's right for you.
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So it's still one of my favorite
favorite books and it's I you know,
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there's just so many of the things
we can't go into, but he
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yeah, you know. The other
thing that he talks about that I think
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it's so helpful for sales as well
is he talks about the use of buyer
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personas and getting him right. It's
not some demographic bullet point list of,
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you know, women eighteen to thirty
four who you know like Yoga. It's
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deeply understanding the problems and challenges and
latent anxieties and desires of your customer and
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then creating content that's going to be
helpful for them and speaking the way they
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think. That's understanding them implicitly drives
the communication in the way that you communicate
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and they get that resonates with them. So that it was a big part.
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Yeah, I think it's worth mentioning
that. Even though a lot of
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stuff has changed over the years since, you know, two thousand and six
335
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the fundamental strategies haven't changed at all. So there's some real timeless stuff in
336
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this content here. I and he
that includes Seo, which, you is
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changing like as fast as anything,
and basically he's saying content is Seo,
338
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if you yet valuable content and you're
writing to the actual problems that you're you
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know your target market. Once you're
going to have SEO, you'll get the
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SEO that you're looking for, and
so it's beautifully simple and very timeless,
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I think, in all the I
mean it's easily my favorite marketing book.
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Yeah, he talks about search engine
marketing. Doesn't rely on the interruption technique,
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and that's what buyers want. It's
about getting found. I mean,
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if you are yearning for those days
of simple marketing where you could shout at
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people, those days are over and
maybe it takes another generation of folks to
346
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understand that. But basically he said
this entire book is about search engine marketing.
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Yeah, without going into all of
the details, but he's saying look,
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if you want to get search engine
results, produce content. It's helpful
349
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for the searcher. There you go. I wish I'd like to tell you
350
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it's more difficult and he also said
be wary of SEO x. He says
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there are some good ones out there, but there are a lot of people
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that are really taking advantage of a
lot of people, a lot of Charlotton's
353
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out there thinking that you know,
you can get them search results without having
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to do it the hard way,
which is producing content that people want.
355
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Yeah, my my opinion, is
the only sustainable way of doing seo.
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It's just what he says, is
build valuable content that people actually want,
357
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and then it doesn't matter how they
change the ally Algorithm. Right, it's
358
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still going to work. So his
his one takeaway surprising. Marketing this way
359
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is fun. It's funner than grinding
through tons of collateral and changing stuff.
360
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And then I laughed. What I
heard is one thing he's his one thing
361
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that lizards could do stop using all
those stock photos. We can all tell
362
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their stock photos. Stop using them. We in your company looks like that.
363
00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:52.519
He years ago declared war on Gobbledegook. You know all that, particularly
364
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the tech world, all this nonsense
language that you know, state of the
365
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art, all that sort of thing. But the other thing is the stock
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photo and he says, you know, it's okay to have stock photos,
367
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but don't have stock photos and try
to convey that those are your employees or
368
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your customers. Yes, he was
clear about that and it's really you know,
369
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he talks about this, he wins
has every time he goes to a
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website and he sees a picture of
Group of young, multicultural people with really
371
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good teeth, all pointing at a
laptop and smile. Those are not your
372
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employees. Okay, you're not helping
yourself by showing that. Plus, I
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think everybody spider sense goes off when
you see those pictures. Now you're like,
374
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Hey, look, there's a bunch
of models in there, but I'm
375
00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:41.640
pointing at a laptop right, it's
just anyway. We all know better.
376
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Anyways, classic book, Timeless Principles. Really could not recommend any higher.
377
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Awesome book, Great Interview to all
right. Last up we've got how to
378
00:25:51.950 --> 00:25:55.509
sell in place, closing deals in
the new normal, by Tom Sercy and
379
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Kara Jane more. And you know
Tom Sirs. He's got a one of
380
00:25:57.869 --> 00:26:00.990
his books is life after the death
of selling, and it's really one of
381
00:26:02.029 --> 00:26:04.380
the more insightful books I've actually ever
read on selling. It's a great book.
382
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I have a copy on my desk
right now. I'm going to be
383
00:26:07.740 --> 00:26:10.779
interviewing about that coming up. Oh, you're great, great. Yeah,
384
00:26:10.819 --> 00:26:14.220
I thought maybe he had had past. It's it's expiration day, but that
385
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is a great, great book.
So I was super excited s start.
386
00:26:18.500 --> 00:26:21.329
That's called a teaser. Yeah,
there you go. We were Mr Mure
387
00:26:21.450 --> 00:26:23.009
just there. You better tune in, tune in, you you don't want
388
00:26:23.009 --> 00:26:26.650
to have to wait a whole month
and a half to get to get to
389
00:26:26.730 --> 00:26:29.890
hear it. He also wrote whale
hunting. Yes, yes, actually,
390
00:26:29.890 --> 00:26:32.809
he's got he's got several. Also
RFP stuck, which I couldn't agree with
391
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:37.359
more. And I mean he's he
really lays it out straight up right and
392
00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:41.759
anyway, I was really excited about
this one and I had a certain expectation
393
00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:45.000
about it just being about a virtual
meeting, but it is so, so
394
00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.029
much better than that. So tell
us a little bit about your interview with
395
00:26:48.150 --> 00:26:51.349
Tom. Well, this is the
episode where I started talking about James Muir,
396
00:26:51.430 --> 00:26:55.470
and the reason why is because James
Muir told me about the book and
397
00:26:55.589 --> 00:26:59.390
then James Mure introduced me to the
author, Tom Swishy himself. Yeah,
398
00:26:59.869 --> 00:27:02.660
and it was a great interview.
So this is another book, kind of
399
00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:06.299
like a row hits book about virtual
meetings, that he wrote in a hurry
400
00:27:07.099 --> 00:27:14.019
and it was absolutely terrific and he's
only like a hundred pages and really,
401
00:27:14.539 --> 00:27:21.569
really good, and he basically says
you've got to understand things have changed because
402
00:27:21.650 --> 00:27:26.250
your buyer has changed because of the
pandemic. Okay, what? There's so
403
00:27:26.250 --> 00:27:29.970
much in it. He packed in
there, but one of the big ones
404
00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:34.559
was he says ninety days is the
new clock. In other words, if
405
00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:40.000
you are talking about long term results, you're going to have a much harder
406
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:42.960
time getting through. You've got to
zero in on what's important to them within
407
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:48.670
the next ninety days. And they're
also concerned about survival. So they've gone
408
00:27:48.710 --> 00:27:53.230
down a few notches on Maslow's hierarchy
of needs and he talks about, you
409
00:27:53.309 --> 00:28:00.019
know, the different mindsets and he's
saying that things like sales is now back
410
00:28:00.019 --> 00:28:03.740
in charge of the process, not
so much the buyer, because sales is
411
00:28:03.940 --> 00:28:11.539
needed to help guide the buyer,
and talks about prospects. Are Now more
412
00:28:11.660 --> 00:28:15.369
receptive to hearing from you if you
can help them, key word help you,
413
00:28:17.049 --> 00:28:19.690
if you can help them solve their
problems. He says reaching decision makers
414
00:28:19.769 --> 00:28:26.730
is much easier and those top level
decision makers are are making big decisions right
415
00:28:26.769 --> 00:28:30.759
now. Buyers there in the new
territory, just like we are right and
416
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:33.960
so they don't have answers. So
they're looking to try to figure out those
417
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.599
things and and the problems that they
have and if you have answers, they're
418
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:40.359
willing to listen to your answers.
The other mindset, I thought that was
419
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:42.349
a good shift. There is he
goes. You know, so many people
420
00:28:42.390 --> 00:28:45.789
are thinking, oh, when things
go back to normal, when things go
421
00:28:45.869 --> 00:28:48.190
back to normal. I'm going to
news flash. Right, things are never
422
00:28:48.230 --> 00:28:51.190
going to be the same. Don't
count. What you need to do is
423
00:28:51.309 --> 00:28:53.630
figure out how to be selling in
our new normal that we have now,
424
00:28:53.750 --> 00:28:56.859
right. So, yeah, don't
count on it. Yeah, he talks
425
00:28:56.900 --> 00:29:03.220
about I mean these things were effective
before the pandemic, but talks about selling
426
00:29:03.460 --> 00:29:08.779
now. It requires you to be
the expert about those executives big problems.
427
00:29:10.329 --> 00:29:15.049
I mean they're real, big emotional
problems, not some vendor comparison, but
428
00:29:15.410 --> 00:29:19.609
the big things, you know.
And another thing, another gem in the
429
00:29:19.650 --> 00:29:23.839
book, was he talks about when
you're selling, particularly now, you must
430
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:29.839
follow the fee year and the failure. So, in other words, zero
431
00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:33.319
in more quickly on what their biggest
fears are. They're going to tell you,
432
00:29:33.039 --> 00:29:38.549
but they'll reveal them and also find
out what they're afraid of and not,
433
00:29:38.670 --> 00:29:41.509
excuse me, not afraid of,
find out what failure would look like
434
00:29:41.789 --> 00:29:47.109
to them. Because you might be
able to help them avoid failure. And
435
00:29:47.470 --> 00:29:49.509
he's got a very nice way of
elucidating all that stuff. That chapter on
436
00:29:49.549 --> 00:29:52.940
questioning strategy is worth the price of
the book all by itself. He did
437
00:29:53.019 --> 00:29:59.539
nothing more than that chapter. It
was amazing restructuring the questions so that you
438
00:29:59.779 --> 00:30:03.099
get it basically. There's a there's
a I don't know, it's probably two
439
00:30:03.099 --> 00:30:06.180
three pages in there where he's thinking, here's a great question, but here's
440
00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:08.529
how to upgrade this mess. There's
a great question, here's how to upgrade
441
00:30:08.569 --> 00:30:14.450
this question. And I think he
calls him fulcrum based questions in there or
442
00:30:14.529 --> 00:30:18.450
historical questions, but he gets you
so, so much more information and his
443
00:30:18.569 --> 00:30:22.200
premise is that in when you're sheltering
in place, when you're selling in place,
444
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:26.400
you've got less time to do all
that discovery that you used to be
445
00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:29.680
able to do. So you got
to upgrade the level of your questioning process
446
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:32.880
and he delivers excellently on that.
Just that one thing, that one part
447
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:36.069
right there, is worth the whole. I mean, what a surprise here.
448
00:30:36.109 --> 00:30:37.109
I think I'm just going to learn
about, you know, virtual meeting
449
00:30:37.109 --> 00:30:41.630
etiquette, which is good. That
was other signing part of the book.
450
00:30:41.710 --> 00:30:44.589
Yeah, so much more to it
than that. Right, this book is
451
00:30:45.390 --> 00:30:48.910
worth way more than just learning how
to run a versial meeting. There was
452
00:30:48.910 --> 00:30:52.259
another funny thing in the book that
I just loved where he says every deal
453
00:30:52.019 --> 00:30:57.539
has an eel. Yeah, means
why that is? You must find out.
454
00:30:59.299 --> 00:31:00.579
You know, maybe maybe you're selling
it, you're selling an organization.
455
00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:04.609
It's a big deal. There's multiple
bought people who will influence the purchase and
456
00:31:04.769 --> 00:31:11.089
help make the decision. You must
assume there's an eel in there, in
457
00:31:11.210 --> 00:31:14.849
other words somebody who, maybe they're
not actively against you or whatever, but
458
00:31:14.930 --> 00:31:18.319
it's going to disrupt their world.
And just go ahead and assume there's an
459
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:22.119
eel in there that's going to try
and kill this deal. Just go ahead
460
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:26.000
and find out who they are and
don't stop until you find one. It's
461
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:29.000
good advice right be those are the
guys that can thank your deal. So
462
00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:32.480
it leaves. Obviously it is bread
from the whole world of complex selling where
463
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.750
you got lots of stakeholders and just
knowing that there's going to be one in
464
00:31:34.789 --> 00:31:37.269
there, somebody in there is not
going to win when your proposal gets put
465
00:31:37.269 --> 00:31:41.109
into place. You need to identify
who they are and understand, you know,
466
00:31:41.190 --> 00:31:44.309
their drivers and either neutralize them or
get them on board. Yeah,
467
00:31:45.069 --> 00:31:49.019
of course, there's a great section
on meeting etiquette and some some I don't
468
00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:52.460
know, I wouldn't call them necessarily
deadly sins, but some mistakes that people
469
00:31:52.539 --> 00:31:59.619
commonly make, MMM, like driving. One thing at a time. Control
470
00:31:59.660 --> 00:32:00.809
your noise. We heard that same
thing with royot. You know, get
471
00:32:00.849 --> 00:32:04.210
a mic, for heaven's sakes,
get a good to get a decent mic.
472
00:32:04.450 --> 00:32:08.170
Yeah, so his one takeaway on
this was that the expertise, and
473
00:32:08.170 --> 00:32:12.170
there's a whole section on this in
the book. Actually expertise is the new
474
00:32:12.289 --> 00:32:16.039
currency of relationships. They and so
if you really want to be engaging,
475
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:20.680
then you need to be able to
offer some value at the at the place
476
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:24.119
where where sales intersects with the domain
that you're selling into. And so really
477
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:28.039
great, really great chapter on that
actually in the book. And the one
478
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:31.470
thing he said that listeners could do
is invest in your tools, invest in
479
00:32:31.670 --> 00:32:35.630
your selling in place tools, you
know, whether that be a chair or
480
00:32:35.750 --> 00:32:38.630
microphone or cameras, all those things, because that's our new normal. So
481
00:32:38.990 --> 00:32:43.910
you spend a little and making it
excellent so that you have a good experience
482
00:32:43.990 --> 00:32:46.420
for your for your customers. So
yeah, ps, those things don't cost
483
00:32:46.460 --> 00:32:50.900
that much. They don't. Yeah, so it share my when I see
484
00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:53.579
somebody using there. I was,
I was on a podcast with someone very
485
00:32:54.859 --> 00:33:00.170
well respected individual and this guy's just
using his ear buds for his ipod to
486
00:33:00.210 --> 00:33:04.569
do the entire you know, podcast. I'm like wow, so you can
487
00:33:04.609 --> 00:33:08.210
do better. But this particular book
super relevant right now and it's a whole
488
00:33:08.210 --> 00:33:12.009
lot more than just how to run
a virtual meeting right. Like I said,
489
00:33:12.329 --> 00:33:15.440
this book is worth reading even if
you're not even selling remotely at all,
490
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:17.920
because there's such a great contact in
there. So I know always said
491
00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:21.880
this last time, but holy smokes, I really love this month's books.
492
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:24.279
Every one of them is excellent.
So tell us what you got coming up
493
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:28.990
next on marketing book podcast. So
the next time we're on the BB growth
494
00:33:29.029 --> 00:33:32.670
show we're going to be talking about
five books. The first is content marketing
495
00:33:32.789 --> 00:33:37.549
for PR how to build brand visibility, influence and trust in today's Social Age,
496
00:33:37.670 --> 00:33:45.740
by Trevor Young. Advertising for skeptics
by Bob Hoffman. Content DNA,
497
00:33:45.019 --> 00:33:51.019
using consistency and congruents to be the
same shape everywhere by John is spirit in
498
00:33:51.779 --> 00:33:57.329
people powered. How communities can super
charge your business, brand and teams by
499
00:33:57.410 --> 00:34:02.410
John o'bacon and brand bewitchery. How
to wield the story cycle system to craft
500
00:34:02.529 --> 00:34:08.489
spell binding stories for your brand by
Park Howl. So that's it for this
501
00:34:08.610 --> 00:34:12.079
month's be to be gross show.
Book Talk. To learn more about the
502
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:15.599
marketing book podcast, Visit Marketing Book
podcastcom and to learn more about James and
503
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:22.920
his excellent book the perfect close,
visit pure mirrorcom. That's spelled PUREMU.
504
00:34:23.309 --> 00:34:28.949
I arecom and, as I mentioned
earlier, if either of US can recommend
505
00:34:28.949 --> 00:34:31.829
a specific sales or marketing book or
the resource for whatever situation you find yourself
506
00:34:31.869 --> 00:34:35.710
in, connect with us on Linkedin, where we can chat and we'll do
507
00:34:35.789 --> 00:34:37.699
our best to get you pointed in
the right direction. Save you some time.
508
00:34:42.099 --> 00:34:45.019
It's sweetfish. We're on a mission
to create the most helpful content on
509
00:34:45.099 --> 00:34:50.420
the Internet for every job, function
and industry on the planet. For the
510
00:34:50.500 --> 00:34:53.570
BDB marketing industry, this show is
how we're executing on that mission. If
511
00:34:53.610 --> 00:34:58.130
you know a marketing leader that would
be an awesome guest for this podcast.
512
00:34:58.530 --> 00:35:00.929
Shoot me a text message. Don't
call me because I don't answer unknown numbers.
513
00:35:00.969 --> 00:35:06.130
But text me at four hundred seven
for and I know three thirty two
514
00:35:06.170 --> 00:35:07.960
eight. Just shoot me their name, maybe a link to their linked in
515
00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:12.320
profile, and I'd love to check
them out to see if we can get
516
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:13.920
them on the show. Thanks A
lot,