#Books 7: Three Big Ideas from 250 Marketing & Sales Books w/ Douglas Burdett & James Muir

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.200 A relationship with the right referral partner could be a game changer for any be 2 00:00:04.360 --> 00:00:08.509 to be company. So what if you could reverse engineer these relationships at a 3 00:00:08.589 --> 00:00:14.269 moment's notice, start a podcast, invite potential referral partners to be guests on 4 00:00:14.349 --> 00:00:19.510 your show and grow your referral network faster than ever? Learn more. At 5 00:00:19.589 --> 00:00:29.300 Sweet Fish Mediacom you're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B 6 00:00:29.420 --> 00:00:33.700 TOB leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vander truck 7 00:00:33.780 --> 00:00:37.649 and Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. 8 00:00:38.289 --> 00:00:42.250 That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. 9 00:00:42.850 --> 00:00:46.689 Most of our guests are in the trenches leading sales and marketing teams. They're 10 00:00:46.689 --> 00:00:52.159 implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BEDB companies 11 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:55.399 in the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet 12 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:59.079 fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of 13 00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:03.039 the CO hosts of this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, 14 00:01:03.240 --> 00:01:06.790 you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business, will share 15 00:01:06.829 --> 00:01:10.189 the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. 16 00:01:10.790 --> 00:01:21.099 Just getting well? Maybe let's get into the show. Hello and welcome 17 00:01:21.099 --> 00:01:23.540 to the B Tob Growth Show monthly book talk. I'm Douglas Fret at, 18 00:01:23.659 --> 00:01:26.939 hosts of the marketing book podcast, where each week I publish an interview with 19 00:01:26.980 --> 00:01:30.900 the author of a new marketing or sales book to help my listeners succeed in 20 00:01:30.939 --> 00:01:36.650 the quickly changing world of marketing and sales. Joining me is my friend James 21 00:01:36.689 --> 00:01:41.409 Mure, author of the perfect clothes, the secret to closing sales, the 22 00:01:41.530 --> 00:01:47.159 best selling practices and techniques for closing the deal. I read every book featured 23 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:51.159 on the Marketing Book Podcast, but James Reads even more books than I do 24 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:55.719 and he listens to every episode of the Marketing Book Podcast, so I'm delighted 25 00:01:56.159 --> 00:02:00.239 that he can join me in this monthly episode of the B Tob Growth Show. 26 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:02.870 We briefly recap some of the key ideas from the marketing and sales books 27 00:02:02.909 --> 00:02:07.509 that were recently featured on the marketing book podcast. James, welcome back to 28 00:02:07.590 --> 00:02:12.509 the BETB growth show book talk. Thank you, Douglas. I do listen 29 00:02:12.509 --> 00:02:15.900 to every episode it is my favorite podcast, and in this episode we're going 30 00:02:15.939 --> 00:02:19.780 to talk about the four most recent books featured on the marketing book podcast, 31 00:02:20.060 --> 00:02:23.740 which are Hello, my name is awesome, how to create brand names that 32 00:02:23.900 --> 00:02:29.259 stick, by Alexandra Watkins, strategy man versus the Anti Strategy Squad, using 33 00:02:29.300 --> 00:02:34.050 strategic thinking to defeat Badge Strategy and save your plan by rich Horwath, get 34 00:02:34.210 --> 00:02:38.610 the meeting and illustrative contact marketing playbook by Stew Heinik, and mean people suck. 35 00:02:39.009 --> 00:02:44.090 How empathy leads to bigger profits and a better life by Michael Brenner. 36 00:02:44.090 --> 00:02:46.879 And maybe, just maybe, I can get you to tell us about the 37 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:50.120 three big ideas from two hundred and fifty books for every marketer that you used 38 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:53.840 in your recent keynote yes, episode. Two hundred and fifty one. Yeah, 39 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:55.759 we can talk about that. We can talk about those three big ideas 40 00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:59.990 after we talk about these books. Awesome, all right. Well, first 41 00:02:59.990 --> 00:03:01.550 up we've got hello, my name is awesome, how to create brand names 42 00:03:01.590 --> 00:03:05.590 that stick, by Alexandra Watkins, and this is a perfect book to start 43 00:03:05.629 --> 00:03:08.069 with because it was both hilarious and insight flone. I think all of us 44 00:03:08.069 --> 00:03:12.349 at some point have had to create brand names, and so tell us a 45 00:03:12.349 --> 00:03:14.819 little bit about hello, my name is awesome. Well, first off, 46 00:03:15.259 --> 00:03:19.020 is that a great name for a book or what? Hell, early my 47 00:03:19.180 --> 00:03:22.419 name is awesome, and on the cover it has one of those, you 48 00:03:22.539 --> 00:03:24.539 know, name tags. You'd see it a networking event and it says hello, 49 00:03:24.659 --> 00:03:28.969 my name is and then they've written in awesome. So it was probably 50 00:03:29.129 --> 00:03:34.289 one of the funniest episodes. She is a fantastic writer, former copywriter in 51 00:03:34.370 --> 00:03:38.650 the agency world and she's a very, very funny person and she has a 52 00:03:38.729 --> 00:03:44.560 company called eat my words in California and she has been at the forefront of 53 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:50.479 naming a lot of very famous products and services and so forth. What's interesting, 54 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:53.120 though, is that people think that, oh, I'm never going to 55 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:58.270 have to name my company that I work for, or yeah, it's never 56 00:03:58.349 --> 00:04:00.069 going to come up. And, as we talked about in the interview, 57 00:04:00.110 --> 00:04:04.310 you have no idea. Everyone's going to be dealing with names, and for 58 00:04:04.349 --> 00:04:08.509 a variety of reasons. One is that you might actually go start your own 59 00:04:08.509 --> 00:04:12.699 company too, is your company might change its name. In fact, she 60 00:04:12.819 --> 00:04:15.579 talked about she gets a lot of business from companies that are in a trademark 61 00:04:15.699 --> 00:04:19.420 suit where they didn't properly trademark their company name and they have to go get 62 00:04:19.420 --> 00:04:24.529 a new name. But also, more likely, there are a lot of 63 00:04:24.850 --> 00:04:30.050 services and products that companies come out with new ones, things they're testing, 64 00:04:30.370 --> 00:04:34.649 and she even goes on to talk about how a lot of companies, big 65 00:04:34.730 --> 00:04:39.360 and small, where people like working, they started naming their conference rooms, 66 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:46.360 they give their employees really interesting job titles, and so it's really going to 67 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:50.639 be used by more people than I think. Somebody by originally think so. 68 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:56.470 But it was really good and she talked about some of the real fails of 69 00:04:56.750 --> 00:05:00.310 some companies with their names and she kind of walks you through and says, 70 00:05:00.310 --> 00:05:02.350 look, this is a bad name, this is what makes for a good 71 00:05:02.389 --> 00:05:06.660 name, and she talks about how if you have to explain what your company 72 00:05:06.699 --> 00:05:12.459 name means, you're already apologizing. If you're having to explain how to pronounce 73 00:05:12.699 --> 00:05:15.819 Your Company's name, you're already apologizing for your company name. It's just not 74 00:05:16.259 --> 00:05:19.980 doing very much. So a lot of companies sort of go into a fight 75 00:05:20.100 --> 00:05:25.649 with one hand tied behind their back by not giving much thought to their name. 76 00:05:25.769 --> 00:05:29.129 And also one of the funny things she talked about how a lot of 77 00:05:29.290 --> 00:05:33.250 companies come up with products or services or company names by going to go daddy 78 00:05:33.290 --> 00:05:39.439 to see if the URL is available. She said stop doing that. The 79 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:46.040 URL's basically aren't available anymore and you can even add a word to your domain 80 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:51.629 name, like she talks about facebook and Tesla. Those names weren't initially available 81 00:05:51.670 --> 00:05:57.110 to them, so they had the facebook or they had tesla motors or something 82 00:05:57.149 --> 00:05:59.990 like that. Where or you could add a verb or a modifier and it 83 00:06:00.110 --> 00:06:04.579 works really well. And of course she explains that if somebody is trying to 84 00:06:04.620 --> 00:06:08.860 find you, they're going to Google your company name anyway, or if they're 85 00:06:08.860 --> 00:06:12.100 doing other marketing correctly, they're going to google a problem and they're going to 86 00:06:12.139 --> 00:06:14.939 find an article you've written about how to solve that problem. But they're not 87 00:06:14.980 --> 00:06:17.060 really going to get a care what your URL is. They're going to care 88 00:06:17.100 --> 00:06:20.009 more about what your company name is. Yeah, a man, and she's 89 00:06:20.089 --> 00:06:23.370 this books really practical acts, as funny as it is. I mean just 90 00:06:23.449 --> 00:06:26.810 all the fails of loans will keep you rolling in this book. But there's 91 00:06:26.810 --> 00:06:30.930 some useful acronyms that she uses in this book to help you, you know, 92 00:06:30.089 --> 00:06:32.120 know what to do and what not to do. So tell us a 93 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:35.319 little bit about I think there's a smile acronym and also there's one that she 94 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:40.639 uses called scratch. Yeah, so hold on one second, wait for it, 95 00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:44.560 wait for it, smile. The five qualities of a super sticky name. 96 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:49.629 Suggestive, so it evokes something about your brand, memorable, it's rooted 97 00:06:49.709 --> 00:06:55.589 in something familiar. So she talked about somebody who worked for a company called 98 00:06:55.629 --> 00:06:59.829 Leap Frog. So that was just a very good it was a memorable name, 99 00:06:59.829 --> 00:07:02.860 imagery, visually evocative to aid in memory. And talked about how a 100 00:07:02.899 --> 00:07:08.860 lot of vehicle or car manufacturers understand that. You get it. Yeah, 101 00:07:08.939 --> 00:07:13.819 they get it for fume, also perfume and cars, although she said if 102 00:07:14.300 --> 00:07:16.610 those, if a perfume company comes out with a car, were in trouble 103 00:07:16.689 --> 00:07:20.129 and if a car company comes out with a perfume or we're going to be 104 00:07:20.250 --> 00:07:25.089 equally in trouble, although I'm sure both companies in both the industries have thought 105 00:07:25.089 --> 00:07:29.610 about this. So that's S M il leg lends itself to a theme for 106 00:07:29.930 --> 00:07:32.519 extended mileage. And the last one is emotional. It kind of moves people. 107 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:36.439 So it the more that you're able to keep those five things in mind 108 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:39.680 the better. If you don't get all of them, you're still going to 109 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:42.879 have a better name for your product or service than other things. And the 110 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:45.750 other things you talked about was scratch, which are the seven deal breakers? 111 00:07:46.189 --> 00:07:51.389 So this is probably more illustrative for people, but it's spelling challenge. If 112 00:07:51.430 --> 00:07:57.750 your company name looks like a Typo, that's one of the seven deal breakers 113 00:07:57.829 --> 00:08:00.459 and she had several examples in the book and I had to ask her during 114 00:08:00.500 --> 00:08:03.699 the interviews. Are these real companies? You know? She said yes, 115 00:08:03.819 --> 00:08:07.300 every single one of them. And you know what? automore probably trying to 116 00:08:07.300 --> 00:08:09.339 buy the domain and that's why they put in such weird names, she said 117 00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:13.490 s. So the next one is copycat. If it's really similar to competitor 118 00:08:13.529 --> 00:08:16.970 names, that's just it doesn't work for several reasons, one of which is 119 00:08:18.050 --> 00:08:20.730 you're going to confuse people and it makes you look like a follower. It's 120 00:08:20.769 --> 00:08:26.769 not distinctive. Restrictive limits future growth. Annoying. Is Is it forced or 121 00:08:26.850 --> 00:08:31.919 frustrates customers? Tame? Is it flat and uninspiring? The curse of knowledge 122 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:37.159 was an interesting one, which is it's a company name that only the insiders 123 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:39.080 would get right. Right. I think a lot in the tech do that 124 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:45.549 and then h out of scratch here is hard to pronounce. There was so 125 00:08:45.710 --> 00:08:48.950 many examples of the know that's it. There's so many examples of how ludicrous 126 00:08:50.029 --> 00:08:52.470 some of these names where you're like, oh my gosh, did companies really 127 00:08:52.509 --> 00:08:54.789 do this? Yeah, so she said if you need to, if you 128 00:08:54.870 --> 00:08:58.899 need someone to spell, pronounced or explain your name, you're essentially apologizing for 129 00:08:58.019 --> 00:09:03.620 it. And she also said that you should always check the urban dictionary to 130 00:09:03.700 --> 00:09:07.379 make sure it's not a slang term for something else. And if you sell 131 00:09:07.460 --> 00:09:11.330 overseas, you need to get someone overseas to to check on that. So 132 00:09:11.330 --> 00:09:16.289 so virtual assistants might want us to make sure that the virtual assistants understand the 133 00:09:16.370 --> 00:09:20.730 Ale Si and all those different right. Yeah, test if by talking into 134 00:09:20.769 --> 00:09:24.399 your doing a search on your for just talking, dictating into your phone, 135 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:30.840 and if your company name is consistently misspelled, you've got yourself another problem. 136 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:35.519 So it was interesting and it was very practical. She walked through exactly how 137 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:39.789 they do it and how they the process they go through and she even includes 138 00:09:39.830 --> 00:09:46.549 the creative brief of exactly what they do with each client. So it's really 139 00:09:46.190 --> 00:09:50.470 super practical. Yeah, great thoughts, great reads them. Yep, some 140 00:09:50.629 --> 00:09:54.460 counterintuitive advice on brainstorming and getting feedback. That's right there. Thanks for my 141 00:09:54.500 --> 00:10:00.779 name. She said that having a brainstorming session with a bunch of people worst 142 00:10:00.899 --> 00:10:03.620 possible idea. She said there should be one person and it should be you 143 00:10:05.059 --> 00:10:07.250 and and not in the conference room, it should be on a computer. 144 00:10:07.289 --> 00:10:09.850 Yeah, in Internet. She goes through and says, okay, go through 145 00:10:09.889 --> 00:10:13.490 all of that first, then bring people together, and then she has a 146 00:10:13.529 --> 00:10:16.850 very specific way of rolling it out because she has probably watched a lot of 147 00:10:16.929 --> 00:10:22.279 great brand names die needless death because of the process us was not done correctly. 148 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:26.000 Agreed. Well, I like that you're asking each one of these authors, 149 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:28.679 you know, what's one thing that the listeners can do in order to, 150 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:31.720 you know, apply what's been learned from the book? And in this 151 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:35.950 case she was saying, Hey, just just practice using the steps that you've 152 00:10:35.950 --> 00:10:39.029 learned. Now, practice naming something safe like your home wi fi network or 153 00:10:39.070 --> 00:10:41.909 something like that, and so I thought that was kind of a great little 154 00:10:43.029 --> 00:10:46.190 practice, a piece of advice that anybody can apply. Just try it out. 155 00:10:46.429 --> 00:10:50.500 Yeah, fantastic book. You know, takes the task of creating names 156 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:54.779 from this sort of nebulous process and turns it into a an easy step by 157 00:10:54.820 --> 00:10:58.779 step process and I kind of like the emphasis on structured creativity, you know, 158 00:10:58.820 --> 00:11:01.580 which allows your mind to wander a little bit but also gives you some 159 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:05.889 rails to keep you on track through. So favorite parts of this, besides 160 00:11:07.009 --> 00:11:13.610 the unbelievable amounts of humorous examples. So next up we've got strategy man versus 161 00:11:13.610 --> 00:11:18.600 the Anti Strategy Squad, using strategic thinking to defeat bad strategy and savior plan 162 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:20.840 by rich horror wathen, and this book is just completely unique. is a 163 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:24.960 graphic novel and the way rich explains the principles even this my even my sons 164 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:28.879 could understand what he was explaining because of the format that he's using. So 165 00:11:30.080 --> 00:11:33.549 tell us a little bit about strategy man versus the Anti Strategy Squad. Well, 166 00:11:33.549 --> 00:11:37.269 I think rich horror wath is now the bane of every other author's existence 167 00:11:37.750 --> 00:11:45.269 because this book is so good and it's a hundred and sixty six pages of 168 00:11:46.029 --> 00:11:48.899 graphic novel and I can't imagine how long it took him to do it and 169 00:11:50.059 --> 00:11:54.539 how expected pensive it must have been. And it even comes with a separate 170 00:11:54.019 --> 00:12:00.299 little training cards like, yeah, a deck of cards of some of the 171 00:12:00.340 --> 00:12:03.409 characters in it, but it was first off, you have to know what 172 00:12:03.570 --> 00:12:07.169 you're talking about in order to put it into a graphic novel with a story, 173 00:12:07.210 --> 00:12:13.690 a compelling story like this. And so what happens is a strategy man 174 00:12:13.970 --> 00:12:18.080 is a superhero and he has two other heroes who help him, and then 175 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:24.039 there are twenty villains, twenty villains that I have personally interacted with in my 176 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:28.240 career. I you know, like the time waster and the Oh gosh, 177 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:31.710 there's so many of them, the fire Driller Byre driller fire. Yeah, 178 00:12:31.830 --> 00:12:37.509 makes company go on fire drills. But it's interesting and I think that it 179 00:12:37.950 --> 00:12:41.789 is probably one of the best strategy books you could read. And I can 180 00:12:41.870 --> 00:12:45.500 remember when I was getting my MBA years ago, and I'm or this one 181 00:12:45.580 --> 00:12:48.100 professor for the Capstone Course was talking about how, you know, whatever you 182 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:52.820 do, wherever you go to work and whenever you're engaged in in that company, 183 00:12:52.259 --> 00:12:56.179 try to think strategically, try to understand with the overall strategy is there, 184 00:12:56.460 --> 00:13:00.529 which was, course, great advice for anyone, whether you have an 185 00:13:00.570 --> 00:13:03.649 NBA or not. You can read this book and I think for the rest 186 00:13:03.690 --> 00:13:05.769 of your career. You would say, wait a minute, it's like the 187 00:13:05.850 --> 00:13:11.330 Matrix were suddenly he could see everything is it was. It was very interesting 188 00:13:11.409 --> 00:13:15.000 and it's I've already barred it from things I've been writing, but he talks 189 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:18.159 about, you know, what is a goal, what is an objective, 190 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:22.000 what is a strategy, what is he tactic and what they aren't, and 191 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:26.440 he talks about how those terms are so often misused. That what was interesting 192 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:31.950 also about the book is that it's like a good sculpture where he removed everything 193 00:13:31.990 --> 00:13:35.789 except the most important parts, and actually he even walks you through with the 194 00:13:35.830 --> 00:13:41.110 in he weaves into the story about this Swat analysis, which a lot of 195 00:13:41.149 --> 00:13:43.059 listeners are priv familiar with, where a company talks about strengths, weaknesses, 196 00:13:43.220 --> 00:13:46.340 opportunities and threats, and that was actually one of the villains. Who Does 197 00:13:46.500 --> 00:13:50.059 slop box does it wrong, and I'm just thinking, man, I have 198 00:13:50.179 --> 00:13:54.259 sat in that movie, I have sat in that you know situation. Of 199 00:13:54.299 --> 00:13:56.769 course it wasn't a robot villain, but it was a person who didn't know 200 00:13:56.929 --> 00:14:01.370 what they were doing and they might have been well meaning. It was really 201 00:14:01.210 --> 00:14:05.009 very, very well done. You know, one of the things that was 202 00:14:05.049 --> 00:14:07.730 really helpful to me is it took almost every challenge that you get in that 203 00:14:09.009 --> 00:14:11.759 process and gave it a name, right, because every one of the villains 204 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:16.159 sort of now represents to me and Oh, I recognize this problem. You 205 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.440 know, this is misalignment, or this is, you know, Colorchello, 206 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.919 or or this is tactique. Right this time, when you see it you're 207 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:26.830 like, oh, there's a villain. I so I think very clever and 208 00:14:26.950 --> 00:14:30.669 very associative to be able to have a name attached to every every one of 209 00:14:30.710 --> 00:14:33.230 these little problems that we have during the strategy process. And you mentioned that 210 00:14:33.789 --> 00:14:39.299 he's got a methodology that they use called ghosts, Uh Huh, which is 211 00:14:39.379 --> 00:14:43.100 the four things you just mentioned right, is goal objective and strategy and tactic, 212 00:14:43.139 --> 00:14:45.460 and he does a great job of letting you know what that is and 213 00:14:45.539 --> 00:14:48.820 what it isn't in the book. Yeah, there was a certain simplicit city 214 00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:52.529 in what he explained that was very, very refreshing and I think you could 215 00:14:52.529 --> 00:14:56.649 imagine that a lot of books about business strategy. I mean right, just 216 00:14:56.769 --> 00:15:03.169 saying that sounds boring, but actually, if it's done right it's quite liberating. 217 00:15:03.529 --> 00:15:07.240 So it was. It was really something else. I can't imagine another 218 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:11.799 graphic novel coming on to the marketing book podcast soon, but I would love 219 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:13.759 it if they did and it all. The other thing we talked about was 220 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:20.879 how there have been a small number of books that had like fables in them, 221 00:15:20.710 --> 00:15:24.350 business books, but like every other chapters of fable where they weave this 222 00:15:24.590 --> 00:15:31.309 story in about the information they're trying to present. So like Bob Berg's books 223 00:15:31.029 --> 00:15:35.700 or the Eisenberg brothers, be like Amazon, even lemonade stand can do it. 224 00:15:35.779 --> 00:15:41.940 It's just it's so engrossing and of course when you put something in story 225 00:15:41.019 --> 00:15:46.700 format you remember it many, many times over and it's very engaging. So 226 00:15:46.779 --> 00:15:50.129 I would hope at least not very author's gonna be able to graphic novel but 227 00:15:50.490 --> 00:15:54.289 the more that they weave stories in, the more effective their books are a 228 00:15:54.850 --> 00:15:58.970 great and this just takes that concept up to the highest level that I've seen 229 00:15:58.009 --> 00:16:02.730 so far. So totally entertaining book and if you're brave enough to carry a 230 00:16:02.769 --> 00:16:06.000 comic book to work, it is totally worth it. It's a just a 231 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:08.879 terrific read for anybody that wants to get better at setting goals, objective strategies 232 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:11.480 and tactics and understanding what that stuff is. Yeah, and it's a great 233 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.080 book that you could give to your CEO or, you know, or a 234 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.950 CEO could give to their C sweet. You know, it's just it was 235 00:16:18.350 --> 00:16:22.070 I think if something like a CEO gave it to their people, that CEO 236 00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:26.549 would be pretty confident about strategy because they already know this and they would be 237 00:16:26.549 --> 00:16:29.269 giving it because they thought it was interesting. You know, is yeah, 238 00:16:29.269 --> 00:16:33.539 it was amusing. Somebody who's insecure about strategy and thinking strategically and talking about 239 00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:40.740 strategy might not want that. So anyway, it's a great gift book, 240 00:16:41.740 --> 00:16:45.299 a great all right. Next up we've got get the meeting and illustrative contact 241 00:16:45.340 --> 00:16:48.929 marketing playbook by STU Heinik. Now, STU Hunek's an amazing direct marketer, 242 00:16:49.090 --> 00:16:53.450 a cartoonist, he's, you know, multi time author, and so I'm 243 00:16:53.490 --> 00:16:56.850 a big fan of his other book that came out before this one, called 244 00:16:56.850 --> 00:17:00.210 how to get a meeting with anyone. So tell us about this newest book 245 00:17:00.490 --> 00:17:03.480 get the meeting. Well, first off, I told him he should stop 246 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:07.519 writing books because the two that he's written were are fantastic. They really, 247 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:12.000 really, really all early. And so the other book was called how to 248 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:17.549 get a meeting with anyone, and that was just unbelievably good and he's a 249 00:17:17.630 --> 00:17:19.710 guy who was a, guess he still is, a cartoonist. He's a 250 00:17:19.710 --> 00:17:25.470 Wall Street Journal cartoonist and in his career, whenever he wanted to get in 251 00:17:25.670 --> 00:17:30.900 with a magazine or whatever, he would draw a cartoon about the publisher and 252 00:17:30.019 --> 00:17:34.980 he would send it in and that would generate a conversation and then he would 253 00:17:34.980 --> 00:17:38.299 start working for these various magazines. He had like a I think it was 254 00:17:38.299 --> 00:17:42.859 a hundred percent success. Right version. Right. Yeah, so that book 255 00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:47.769 how to get a meeting with anyone. It talks to you about the psychology 256 00:17:47.849 --> 00:17:52.049 of getting in and how to enlist gatekeepers. gatekeepers are the vice presidents of 257 00:17:52.130 --> 00:17:56.609 access. And then a good bit of the book was actually about what should 258 00:17:56.609 --> 00:18:00.119 the dog do once it's caught that car? So he then goes through and 259 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.599 explains this is what is a CEO is thinking, you know, this is 260 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.279 what they're talking about. This isn't talking so much about getting a meeting with 261 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:11.400 a procurement person, it's getting a meeting with a top person, someone that's 262 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:14.630 difficult to get in to see. And in fact he had a coin, 263 00:18:14.710 --> 00:18:17.589 a phrase for that. He called it contact marketing, which is right in 264 00:18:17.630 --> 00:18:19.829 the title there, which is, you know, sort of this fusion of 265 00:18:21.230 --> 00:18:26.190 marketing and sales focused on opening doors for key prospects, right VIPs, and 266 00:18:26.309 --> 00:18:29.619 resulting in some kind of critical sale or some kind of strategic alliance. So 267 00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:32.700 I think it's interesting that that. I mean this. These two books are 268 00:18:32.700 --> 00:18:36.619 completely unique. There is nothing else out there like this that I have seen, 269 00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:40.819 and I remember still saying he kind of called it an underground methods of 270 00:18:40.859 --> 00:18:44.970 Ad Hoc Marketing to get appointments. Yeah, and he's given it that term 271 00:18:45.089 --> 00:18:48.690 contact marketing, and it's just one more thing that is all about the alignment 272 00:18:48.730 --> 00:18:52.250 of sales and marketing. And so anyway, he wrote this book because he'd 273 00:18:52.289 --> 00:18:56.440 heard from so many people around the world who had actually additional ideas and he 274 00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:00.640 heard from a lot of people that did the things that were outlined in his 275 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:04.160 first book. So this one was real, real practical, include lots of 276 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:11.430 examples of what people are doing and it even talks about Ai and augmented reality 277 00:19:11.630 --> 00:19:15.589 and all these types of things. He mentioned just a few things from the 278 00:19:15.630 --> 00:19:19.750 first book, but it's beautifully written and he talks about these, you know, 279 00:19:21.109 --> 00:19:25.259 the the next evolution of business cards. And here's how good it was. 280 00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:27.019 I started changing some of the things I was doing to reach out to 281 00:19:27.099 --> 00:19:30.940 prospects. And there's and there's so many in there there. I mean there's 282 00:19:32.019 --> 00:19:33.859 real, I don't know, easily, easily a hundred different ideas that would 283 00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:37.569 take you months of time to actually execute, because there's so many interesting and 284 00:19:37.849 --> 00:19:41.609 excellent ideas in this book. And Yeah, pitch all this stuff and it's 285 00:19:41.690 --> 00:19:45.809 just really a great read. I think one of the interesting concepts in the 286 00:19:45.809 --> 00:19:49.730 book was about going deep versus wide. Where deep personalization is if you're trying 287 00:19:49.769 --> 00:19:55.240 to reach ten people or one person or, you know, a hundred people 288 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:59.119 over a year. Wide personalization is where you could send something out to a 289 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:03.880 hundred people but it has something relevant that they all have in common, like 290 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:08.390 their job title or something like that. So it was a very, very 291 00:20:08.470 --> 00:20:15.109 creative book. And here's what came to my mind. When I hear companies 292 00:20:15.950 --> 00:20:19.069 or sales people or CEOS or whatever saying we just can't get through, we 293 00:20:19.190 --> 00:20:23.980 can't get through to people, we can't even get a pulse, I want 294 00:20:23.980 --> 00:20:27.140 to throw the book at them. I want to throw this book at them, 295 00:20:27.779 --> 00:20:33.700 because any company that goes through here and just starts trying some of these 296 00:20:33.740 --> 00:20:37.009 things, they're going to be amazed. And in the book he talked about 297 00:20:37.009 --> 00:20:41.329 companies that had like one ambitious salesperson that read his first book and started doing 298 00:20:41.369 --> 00:20:45.930 it and he started getting through through and he started getting at least sales, 299 00:20:45.089 --> 00:20:48.970 at which point the company, even the CEOS, saying this is never going 300 00:20:48.009 --> 00:20:52.000 to work. Soon after all the other sales people were like, can you 301 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:55.759 help me do that? No doubt. Yeah, it's very important both the 302 00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:57.680 door and you know, maybe I'm jumping head here, but one of the 303 00:20:57.759 --> 00:21:00.519 things he said, you know, what's the one thing you can do is 304 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:04.230 stop and take a take inventory about, hey, who were the top people 305 00:21:04.269 --> 00:21:07.990 that you can get? You know, that will really make a difference in 306 00:21:07.069 --> 00:21:11.109 your life, and then stack and rank those guys. Yes, Zation to 307 00:21:11.190 --> 00:21:14.549 get into those guys. That was very good. I mean people haven't taken 308 00:21:14.589 --> 00:21:17.750 the first step even of identifying who were there. You know, aunt the 309 00:21:17.869 --> 00:21:19.740 arena would call it. You know, my dream clients, right, and 310 00:21:21.140 --> 00:21:23.180 Jamie shanks talks about that in his book spear selling, where, you know, 311 00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:29.059 the most important thing is the selection of your target accounts and way too 312 00:21:29.140 --> 00:21:34.329 many companies don't even have ideal target accounts that they've thought about and there's a 313 00:21:34.369 --> 00:21:38.289 certain liberating phenomenon I've seen with companies where they start to think, wow, 314 00:21:38.289 --> 00:21:42.450 you mean we could actually fire some clients we don't like if we could get 315 00:21:42.490 --> 00:21:45.970 some of these really good clients and to get some thinking like, wait a 316 00:21:45.049 --> 00:21:48.119 minute, what do they all have in common? These ideal clients are these 317 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:52.759 dream clients? Oh Wow, you know, and so it starts to have 318 00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:55.599 an impact on their business. They start to think about things they could probably 319 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.559 stop doing and other services they should start doing. So it's it was, 320 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:03.990 it was good advice that he gave, but it also is it's almost like 321 00:22:03.150 --> 00:22:08.589 in the wisdom most to Heinek, there he's tricking these companies into thinking more 322 00:22:08.869 --> 00:22:12.470 about what they should be thinking about in terms of trying to grow their business, 323 00:22:12.509 --> 00:22:17.859 by maybe dreaming a little bit about who is our ideal customer, whereas 324 00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:21.700 how's profitable customer? Yeah, yeah, forces that activity. And there's so 325 00:22:21.740 --> 00:22:23.460 much in this book. It's like I don't think you you don't even cover 326 00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:27.579 everything that's in the book in your interview with him, but there's pocket campaigns 327 00:22:27.619 --> 00:22:32.809 and there's unsolicited proposals and there's Linkedin and there's video and there's a whole bunch 328 00:22:32.809 --> 00:22:37.089 of different, really interesting and every one of those has multiple examples of how 329 00:22:37.170 --> 00:22:40.490 he's doing it. So it's just a really, really phenomenal book all in 330 00:22:40.529 --> 00:22:44.960 all. Really is very important book for salespeople to read, but I think 331 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.279 even more important for marketing people to read, because can you imagine the respect 332 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:51.759 the sales team would have for marketers who start coming up with some of these 333 00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:56.000 ideas? Yes, Yas outstanding and with the conversion rate is off the chart. 334 00:22:56.119 --> 00:23:00.029 So yeah, so two thumbs up, two thumbs up for me. 335 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:03.430 I'll absolutely agree. All right. Well, next up we've got mean people 336 00:23:03.509 --> 00:23:06.990 suck. How empathy leads to bigger profits and a better life, by Michael 337 00:23:07.029 --> 00:23:10.910 Brenner, and this book focuses on the business value of empathy. So I 338 00:23:11.029 --> 00:23:14.460 share a little bit with us about mean people suck. Well, this was 339 00:23:14.859 --> 00:23:19.220 episode two hundred fifty and he I've given talks in the over the years and 340 00:23:19.299 --> 00:23:23.980 I talked about how empathy is arguably the most important word in marketing, in 341 00:23:25.099 --> 00:23:29.369 sales, and so empathy is not sorrow, compassion or pity for someone. 342 00:23:29.490 --> 00:23:33.450 It's understanding their situation, putting yourself in their shoes, and the thing that's 343 00:23:33.450 --> 00:23:37.529 so great about that is that even if you do it ten percent, you're 344 00:23:37.569 --> 00:23:41.119 going to be better than your competition. You don't have to get this perfectly 345 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:47.240 right, but talks about how this lack of empathy for that companies have for 346 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:52.359 customers, that lack of empathy they have for their employees, it's just I 347 00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.150 can't think of anything more destructive, except maybe out of Control Egos. So 348 00:23:56.710 --> 00:24:04.869 companies that are able to have a bit of empathy just they succeed wildly and 349 00:24:04.990 --> 00:24:08.549 much more effectively than their competition. And there was one big idea in the 350 00:24:08.630 --> 00:24:14.900 book that I just loved and that was he talked about organizational charts. Are, 351 00:24:15.019 --> 00:24:18.099 yes, one of the worst things to happen to businesses. And if 352 00:24:18.099 --> 00:24:23.410 you think about an organizational chart with, you know, boxes and lines going 353 00:24:23.490 --> 00:24:26.890 down the yeah, well, you see, it's very much about the company 354 00:24:27.049 --> 00:24:30.250 and and what everyone should be reporting to. In the book he has this 355 00:24:30.450 --> 00:24:33.970 graphic of what the real organization chart should look like. They should be more 356 00:24:34.009 --> 00:24:37.799 of a circle and at the middle of that circle is the customer and every 357 00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:45.000 department should be then connected back into in some way to their effect on the 358 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:48.559 customer, what they're doing. And there was another book on the show while 359 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.470 back called I think it was an incompoopery, which we've talked about, and 360 00:24:52.670 --> 00:24:56.990 he talks about these different departments in so many companies are customer free zones. 361 00:24:57.470 --> 00:25:02.309 Do you remember that? Yes, this is not account John Brant the author, 362 00:25:02.789 --> 00:25:06.390 and so this is a similar, a similar type of thing, and 363 00:25:06.630 --> 00:25:10.099 it was just a, you know, a really thoughtful book also, because 364 00:25:10.140 --> 00:25:12.859 he talks about, you know, behind every bad idea is an executive who 365 00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:18.460 asked for it, and I think that a lot of people are pretty pretty 366 00:25:18.460 --> 00:25:21.339 terrified where they are. They don't lose their job, they're being told what 367 00:25:21.450 --> 00:25:26.170 to do and that's just such a mistake and it's not really getting the most 368 00:25:26.210 --> 00:25:30.650 out of your out of your workforce or your or your customers. What was 369 00:25:30.730 --> 00:25:36.039 your thoughts? Yeah, well, he describes exactly why that process it causes 370 00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:40.480 people to continue to do stuff that they know isn't working because they because I've 371 00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:44.119 been told to do it, rather than think for themselves right, and then 372 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.440 try to understand exactly what will be beneficial to the customers right, and then 373 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:52.230 even speak out when when it isn't serving customers, like he gave. There's 374 00:25:52.230 --> 00:25:56.390 a great Cap Gemini Story and they're where you know, somebody wants to do 375 00:25:56.549 --> 00:25:59.869 this big golfing thing, but the truth is our customers don't care about golf. 376 00:25:59.910 --> 00:26:03.619 All right, it's great, yes, and actually that person, that 377 00:26:03.859 --> 00:26:07.819 marketer the company, was saying, look, spend these millions of dollars in 378 00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:12.900 this golf of sponsorship because our three big competitors are doing it. And, 379 00:26:14.019 --> 00:26:17.619 as I recall from the book, she said, well, yeah, but 380 00:26:17.859 --> 00:26:19.650 you know, she started saying, well, but our customers don't care about 381 00:26:19.650 --> 00:26:22.289 that. This is what our customers want from us. This is where how 382 00:26:22.289 --> 00:26:26.369 we could be helpful and, you know, show some empathy for our customers 383 00:26:26.410 --> 00:26:29.609 and probably get more sales. I'm sure they said, we don't really need 384 00:26:29.650 --> 00:26:30.769 all that money. And so they're like, what do you mean? We're 385 00:26:30.769 --> 00:26:33.160 giving you all this money. Well, thanks, but that's not really what 386 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.759 we need. Anyway. Long Story Short, what they ended up doing was 387 00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.599 more helpful for their customers at save them a lot of money. And the 388 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:44.920 consultants, who are, you know, making sales, they liked it to 389 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:48.869 yeah, the our wives, I remember was around twenty one or twenty one 390 00:26:48.910 --> 00:26:52.230 times. I mean it was less money but higher return on investment. That, 391 00:26:52.390 --> 00:26:55.990 yes, for what they did, would have gotten before. So talk 392 00:26:55.990 --> 00:26:59.630 a little bit about attention is the new currency. He mentions that in the 393 00:26:59.670 --> 00:27:02.779 book and how it's a you know, how can we capture and hold our 394 00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:06.779 customers attention? And he kind of ties that in with people not caring about 395 00:27:06.779 --> 00:27:11.299 our brands anymore. And Yeah, well, so we've we've gone from an 396 00:27:11.339 --> 00:27:15.849 era where we could buy attention and there was more of a captive audience and 397 00:27:15.009 --> 00:27:18.650 as a former New York City ad man, those were the good old days. 398 00:27:19.970 --> 00:27:25.769 But it's gone. It's gone, and so you can't. HMM, 399 00:27:26.130 --> 00:27:29.289 I don't I think it's really pretty hard to buy attention now and part of 400 00:27:29.369 --> 00:27:33.160 that is because people their attention can go everywhere and if you're trying to buy 401 00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:37.319 attention on social media, I mean you're competing with cat videos which are more 402 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:41.799 interesting, and pictures of your friends and you know, you could buy television 403 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:45.190 advertising, maybe you could buy new magazine ads at you know, but you 404 00:27:45.230 --> 00:27:51.910 can't really buy attention. So, rather than interrupting what people are interested in, 405 00:27:52.109 --> 00:27:56.150 you now have to be what people are interested in. So that's a 406 00:27:56.309 --> 00:28:00.900 real struggle for a lot of companies at but the more that you are able 407 00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:04.900 to make yourself useful, helpful, educational for your customers, the more effective 408 00:28:04.900 --> 00:28:08.859 you're going to be. And one of the examples in terms of content is 409 00:28:08.900 --> 00:28:12.650 just answering their questions. If you sit down and you think about what are 410 00:28:12.650 --> 00:28:15.250 all the questions, get the sales team in there, because they're really good 411 00:28:15.250 --> 00:28:19.490 at answering this question. What questions do you get all the time? And 412 00:28:19.970 --> 00:28:22.650 I see hands go up and they're saying, Oh, I get this four 413 00:28:22.730 --> 00:28:27.200 times a day. It's like great, it's you know that. That's if 414 00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:30.519 they're asking. There's definitely searching for it. The only problem with that is 415 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:36.359 it tends to be questions that are that maybe sales people get towards the end 416 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:40.599 of a customer journey. But you can go talk to customers and and get 417 00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:45.670 insights. But just answering your customers questions. I know it's a it's a 418 00:28:45.109 --> 00:28:49.269 radical approach and it's talked about in the book by Marcus shared and they ask 419 00:28:49.869 --> 00:28:53.390 you answer and but it works really well. was there some other part of 420 00:28:55.549 --> 00:28:59.420 that topic that you recall? Well, you said it. People don't care 421 00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:02.380 about your brand, they care about themselves, right, and they want content 422 00:29:02.420 --> 00:29:06.660 that's interesting and it's useful to them. And so there are our goal should 423 00:29:06.660 --> 00:29:10.690 be focusing on problems right and then and weave those into our stories. The 424 00:29:10.809 --> 00:29:14.609 Best, you know, the best stories focus on not really the solution part 425 00:29:14.650 --> 00:29:15.890 of it, but the whole challenge and the problem side of the of the 426 00:29:15.970 --> 00:29:19.609 formula, and your solution piece is just that little tiny bit at the end. 427 00:29:21.049 --> 00:29:25.039 There resonate more when we talk about the problems. Yeah, and everyone's 428 00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:29.759 products are good, I mean pretty much products, services, or you're not 429 00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:32.759 going to make it and you're going to as the quicken the dead. Now 430 00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:36.839 where if you're creating your customers badly, the whole world can find out pretty 431 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:42.069 pretty quickly. So if it's now, who seems more human and who seems 432 00:29:42.069 --> 00:29:47.109 to understand me better? Yeah, and what channels do we to make that? 433 00:29:47.230 --> 00:29:48.029 In fact, that's the message of the book. Right, by treating 434 00:29:48.069 --> 00:29:52.099 people with compassion and respect, we can improve not just our workplaces and our 435 00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:55.420 results, but we can, you know, we in our customers can live 436 00:29:55.500 --> 00:29:59.900 happier lives. I really resonate with that theme in the book and I think 437 00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:03.660 the more genuine and authentic we get with our clients the better. Absolutely, 438 00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:06.339 and I hope that I don't have to wait another two hundred fifty books to 439 00:30:06.460 --> 00:30:08.410 have one come out about empathy. Yeah, let's hope. Right, let's 440 00:30:08.410 --> 00:30:11.410 hope. I think the one thing we could do on this one, he 441 00:30:11.529 --> 00:30:14.769 said, just to ask your team what they think, right, and see 442 00:30:14.809 --> 00:30:17.890 it you can do to solve your problem. So you had he's basically open, 443 00:30:18.009 --> 00:30:19.450 just like you said, opening up your dialog with your own team and 444 00:30:19.609 --> 00:30:23.279 with your clients. Yeah, so that was the last book. But yeah, 445 00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:29.480 we also got an amazing keynote session from Douglas burdette himself, entitled three 446 00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:33.240 big ideas from two hundred fifty books for every marketer you know. Can I 447 00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:36.589 convince you to tell us a little bit about, you know what the what 448 00:30:36.710 --> 00:30:38.549 the three things were, the three Dag Ideas? Sure, happy to do 449 00:30:38.670 --> 00:30:44.150 it. And this is a BB growth show book talk exclusive extra. Okay. 450 00:30:44.309 --> 00:30:47.750 So so the listeners out there, you're welcome. I didn't want to 451 00:30:47.750 --> 00:30:52.299 talk about this, but James, I'd draged Auntie forced me to. So 452 00:30:52.460 --> 00:30:56.339 what I did was I had given a talk in Birmingham, Alabama, a 453 00:30:56.619 --> 00:31:00.019 month or two ago and it was basically three big ideas from the first two 454 00:31:00.019 --> 00:31:03.299 hundred fifty books I've been on the show. And it was only three because 455 00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:07.009 that's all I could remember. No, I'm kidding. That's actually leave chames. 456 00:31:07.009 --> 00:31:07.690 I don't know if you know this, but about ten years ago, 457 00:31:07.730 --> 00:31:12.009 in lieu of a midlife crisis, I started performing stand up comedy and I'm 458 00:31:12.049 --> 00:31:17.049 all better now, thank you, but I don't perform. I stopped performing, 459 00:31:17.730 --> 00:31:19.440 and so I think I channel some of that into my public speaking and 460 00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:22.960 maybe my my podcasting, although I try to joke around too much on this 461 00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.559 show because I don't want James carberry coming after me to, you know, 462 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:33.230 beat me up or something. So the three big ideas are one, marketers 463 00:31:33.269 --> 00:31:37.309 have an image problem and too many people think of them as arts and crafts 464 00:31:37.349 --> 00:31:41.470 party planners who work in the make it pretty department. If you don't believe 465 00:31:41.509 --> 00:31:45.069 me, go ask the sales team. But I explain. Well, there's 466 00:31:45.069 --> 00:31:48.259 a lot of studies that talk about how that that's very true and I quoted 467 00:31:48.380 --> 00:31:52.019 several books where they say this perception of marketers is that way. Is it 468 00:31:52.140 --> 00:31:56.180 true? No, but that's the perception. So that part of the talk. 469 00:31:56.380 --> 00:32:00.849 I talked about how to become one of those marketers that's not perceived that 470 00:32:00.930 --> 00:32:07.690 way, the minority of marketers where they are looked at with a lot of 471 00:32:07.769 --> 00:32:12.170 respect and quite a bit of a little bit of financial things I talked about. 472 00:32:12.170 --> 00:32:15.369 So you can't leave me hanging there. What you talk about getting in 473 00:32:15.450 --> 00:32:17.200 the revenue can yes, that's right, so say so. How do marketers 474 00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:21.359 get in the revenue camp? Well, they start to ask questions like, 475 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:24.839 you know, who's our most valuable customer? What's our most profitable customer? 476 00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:30.349 What are our sales goals? What are our business goals? What are you 477 00:32:30.430 --> 00:32:32.670 know, grow go ask that stuff, right, and they're not used to 478 00:32:32.710 --> 00:32:37.869 hearing marketers ask about that, particularly smaller companies. But Anyway, and actually 479 00:32:37.910 --> 00:32:42.950 all these slides and everything are available at marketing with podcastcom. So the second 480 00:32:43.069 --> 00:32:45.660 one was not just for marketers, it was for almost anyone, and that 481 00:32:45.940 --> 00:32:51.700 is that the most successful companies, the most successful marketers, the most successful 482 00:32:51.700 --> 00:32:55.740 sales people have the deepest insights into their customers, right, they really understand, 483 00:32:55.980 --> 00:33:00.849 they observe their customers, they look for friction in their customers lives. 484 00:33:00.089 --> 00:33:05.690 Jeff Bezos does this and they're succeeding wildly. Look at Uber and lift, 485 00:33:06.250 --> 00:33:10.809 but they don't own cars, but they found friction and they had pretty deep 486 00:33:10.809 --> 00:33:16.559 insights into what was irritating people about whatever that category is or your product or 487 00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:22.319 their otherir life and the so the more that you understand your customers the better. 488 00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:24.759 And the way you do that is you have to go talk to them, 489 00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:29.269 and I've got several books on the show that have talked about the importance 490 00:33:29.430 --> 00:33:31.950 of just talking to your customers, not trying to sell to them. In 491 00:33:32.069 --> 00:33:36.630 fact, don't ask the salespeople to do that in most cases because they're busy 492 00:33:36.750 --> 00:33:38.509 and they've got other kind of skills that you should be using to try and 493 00:33:38.589 --> 00:33:44.900 help close sales marketers. Go Talk to these people. You if marketers become 494 00:33:45.220 --> 00:33:51.259 the experts on their customers, they'll be amazed at how their status and their 495 00:33:51.299 --> 00:33:54.420 power will increase at the company. Yeah, that's a phenomenal segment of your 496 00:33:54.500 --> 00:33:58.289 talk there, and I ended up missing a couple books that you had mentioned 497 00:33:58.329 --> 00:34:00.769 in there, so I immediately went out and bottom. Oh, sorry, 498 00:34:00.769 --> 00:34:02.890 I'm excited. I'm excited to read those this week. Yeah, they are. 499 00:34:04.049 --> 00:34:08.849 They are good. And the third one was your most powerful marketing is 500 00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:15.360 the experience that your customers have, the meaning, the whatever your customers experience 501 00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:21.119 in any interaction with your company. That's your most powerful marketing. Because everyone 502 00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:23.389 has a megaphone now and it's not so much what you say or do, 503 00:34:23.510 --> 00:34:29.309 it's the way people feel. And that's why they've been so many books on 504 00:34:29.389 --> 00:34:32.469 the show talking about engineering a better experience for your customers. Now, what 505 00:34:32.550 --> 00:34:36.869 do you have to have to be able to do that? MMM, it's 506 00:34:36.909 --> 00:34:42.699 that e word again, empathy. But people will pay more for a better 507 00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:46.099 experience. I mean survey after survey shows that if you've got happy customers, 508 00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:51.659 that can become a big part of your marketing. So that's also led to 509 00:34:51.739 --> 00:34:55.690 the resurgence of word of mouth marketing. So again, word of mouth marketing 510 00:34:55.769 --> 00:34:59.929 is not always something that you can just write a check, like you write 511 00:34:59.929 --> 00:35:02.130 a check for an ad and then something happens. No, you have to 512 00:35:02.250 --> 00:35:07.480 engineer something into the way your company operates differentiate your product or your service. 513 00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:10.800 A big part of that is your HR department. How what kind of people 514 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:14.400 you trying to attract your company? How are you treating them? How are 515 00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:17.360 you training them? All that goes into the experience and that's much, much 516 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:23.469 more powerful than anything that you say about your company. Yeah, Amen. 517 00:35:23.630 --> 00:35:27.469 Well, this was a treat to listen to you and a keynote setting, 518 00:35:27.510 --> 00:35:30.070 so I thought it was a phenomenal. I'm glad you had it. So 519 00:35:30.429 --> 00:35:32.469 why? I hope they had as much fun hearing it as I did giving 520 00:35:32.510 --> 00:35:36.500 it, because, you know, you can hear them all off and yeah, 521 00:35:36.500 --> 00:35:38.659 it's phenomenal. So now you mentioned a ton of books in that keynote. 522 00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:42.739 Literally I had to keep backing up to track all the names of the 523 00:35:42.780 --> 00:35:44.900 books that you were thrown out there, and I know you're giving us the 524 00:35:44.900 --> 00:35:46.739 Krem deally Crem. So you know, obviously, if good first step would 525 00:35:46.739 --> 00:35:52.849 be to read all those but nod, I read them so that my audience 526 00:35:52.889 --> 00:35:54.250 doesn't have to. Well, that was good. That was my question. 527 00:35:54.449 --> 00:35:57.449 Is like, all right, so what would you recommend out of all those 528 00:35:57.449 --> 00:36:00.769 books that you were mentioning in that presentations? Yes, if someone were new 529 00:36:00.010 --> 00:36:04.090 and listening to this, you know, maybe where would you suggest that they 530 00:36:04.090 --> 00:36:07.559 start? Well, the best book out of all two hundred and fifty is 531 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:15.400 how to appear smart in meetings by Sarah Cooper, how to get by without 532 00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:19.590 even trying. Now, sure, that was part of a special April fools 533 00:36:19.630 --> 00:36:23.070 day episode, but it's a hilarious book and it's one of the jokes I 534 00:36:23.150 --> 00:36:27.630 had in the presentation where she talks about how. But her book is very, 535 00:36:27.670 --> 00:36:30.670 very funny. Go to Cooper Reviewcom and you can see all this stuff. 536 00:36:30.949 --> 00:36:32.860 She talks about how when you're in a meeting and you don't really interested, 537 00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:37.380 you're not paying attention. Come on, listener, you've been there. 538 00:36:37.820 --> 00:36:42.900 And what you do is somebody says something, you can you convert percentages into 539 00:36:42.980 --> 00:36:46.449 fractions. So somebody goes about twenty five percent of visitors to our website clicked 540 00:36:46.489 --> 00:36:52.210 on this button. So then you say so about one in four, your 541 00:36:52.329 --> 00:36:57.090 math skills will be the envy of everyone in that room. But the other 542 00:36:57.090 --> 00:37:01.000 one is that I saw in the military quite a bit, is you're making 543 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:05.679 a presentation with slides and you just stop the presenter and say can you go 544 00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:09.199 back a slide? It doesn't matter where in the presentation is, as long 545 00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:14.760 as it's not the first slide. But everyone thinks you're paying more attention than 546 00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:17.110 you actually are and then you can go back to doing what you were doing 547 00:37:17.190 --> 00:37:22.030 before, which was in the meeting checking instagram. There you go, pure 548 00:37:22.030 --> 00:37:24.909 edict. That was a good one, but I think but the one of 549 00:37:24.949 --> 00:37:29.469 the greatest marketing books that I always recommend is the new rules of marketing and 550 00:37:29.829 --> 00:37:34.420 PR by David Merman, Scott Three hundred ninety four pages. Yeah, how 551 00:37:34.460 --> 00:37:36.739 many distances? I was just going to ask you how many didstions. Sixth 552 00:37:36.739 --> 00:37:39.659 edition is for sale, and then I think I heard that in twenty. 553 00:37:40.139 --> 00:37:43.980 So in two thousand and twenty, so about every three years he updates. 554 00:37:44.019 --> 00:37:45.170 In Two thousand and twenty it's coming out and I saw that it's going to 555 00:37:45.210 --> 00:37:49.050 be four hundred eighty pages. But that is the book. That's one of 556 00:37:49.050 --> 00:37:52.489 the two books that most transformed my working life. Looking back, read the 557 00:37:52.530 --> 00:37:57.329 first edition and it's one that I always recommend. In fact, I talked 558 00:37:57.329 --> 00:38:00.000 about it in that keynote that you mentioned. Yep, I remember hearing about 559 00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.760 it. Well, this month's books covered a wide range in is really great 560 00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.400 to hear your keynotes and some of the insights you found most valuable out of 561 00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:08.920 the hundreds of books that you've read. So tell us a little bit about 562 00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:14.269 what you got coming up on the marketing book podcast. So the first one, 563 00:38:14.389 --> 00:38:16.110 the next one we're going to talk about is by Scott Adams, the 564 00:38:16.230 --> 00:38:22.789 creator of Dilbert. It's called loser. Think how untrained brains are ruining America. 565 00:38:22.869 --> 00:38:25.190 A little bit different from a lot of the marketing and sales books that 566 00:38:25.230 --> 00:38:30.059 have been on the show but really, really interesting. We're going to have 567 00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:35.340 of the self reliant entrepreneur. Three hundred sixty six daily meditations to feed your 568 00:38:35.380 --> 00:38:37.900 soul and grow your business by John Jans. He's a very famous author who's 569 00:38:37.900 --> 00:38:43.369 written books like duct tape marketing, duct take selling, the referral engine and 570 00:38:43.449 --> 00:38:46.809 so forth, and this is sort of like the daily Stoic by Ryan Holliday, 571 00:38:46.889 --> 00:38:54.489 but this is daily meditations from transcendentalist American transcendentalist authors, which a big 572 00:38:54.570 --> 00:38:59.920 focus of that movement was all about self reliance and it's really good and it's 573 00:38:59.960 --> 00:39:04.400 just something you can look at for less than a minute a day and really 574 00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:07.320 get get thinking. It's a very different book for him, but it's fantastic. 575 00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:13.429 Beyond product, how exceptional founders embrace marketing to create and capture value for 576 00:39:13.469 --> 00:39:19.429 their business by Jill solely and todd wilms, couple of Silicon Valley marketing executives 577 00:39:19.789 --> 00:39:27.260 who for throughout their career have had to deal with companies that think that if 578 00:39:27.260 --> 00:39:30.780 they just build a great product, everything else going to happen for them. 579 00:39:30.820 --> 00:39:35.659 So it was a really interesting book the way they explained well. They basically 580 00:39:35.699 --> 00:39:39.369 did what they've done where they explain how marketing works and how it can be 581 00:39:39.449 --> 00:39:45.730 such a force multiplier for a business when it's done great, when it's done 582 00:39:45.130 --> 00:39:50.690 correctly. And the last one is ten stories great leaders tell by Paul Smith. 583 00:39:51.130 --> 00:39:52.760 He's the author of cell with a story, which is one of the 584 00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:59.440 greatest sales posts about using stories, and this is the ten stories a great 585 00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:02.599 leaders tell. But it's not just for CEOS, it's pretty much any businessperson. 586 00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:06.679 He's not telling you what the story is, he's telling you the type 587 00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:12.630 of stories that really inspire, motivate, persuade and lead other people. And 588 00:40:12.710 --> 00:40:15.909 it's it's already won a literary award. It's really fantastic. So that's all 589 00:40:16.030 --> 00:40:20.349 next month. So stay tuned, dear listener. And that's it for this 590 00:40:20.469 --> 00:40:22.340 month's be to be growth showbook talk. I realized were in along, but 591 00:40:22.500 --> 00:40:25.500 hey, what are you gonna do? To learn more about the marketing book 592 00:40:25.500 --> 00:40:30.619 podcast, Visit Marketing Book podcastcom and to learn more about James and his excellent 593 00:40:30.739 --> 00:40:36.489 book the perfect close, visit pure mirrorcom. That's spelled purem you. I 594 00:40:36.690 --> 00:40:40.650 arecom and if either of US can recommend a specific sales or marketing book or 595 00:40:40.690 --> 00:40:45.530 other resource for whatever situation you find yourself in. Save yourself some time. 596 00:40:45.690 --> 00:40:49.250 Please connect with us on Linkedin, where we can chat and we'll do our 597 00:40:49.250 --> 00:40:52.079 best to get you pointed in the right direction. And remember Keith Learning, 598 00:40:52.159 --> 00:41:01.599 because these days big learners are big earners. We totally get it. We 599 00:41:01.719 --> 00:41:06.349 publish a ton of content on this podcast and it can be a lot to 600 00:41:06.469 --> 00:41:09.070 keep up with. That's why we've started the B tob growth big three, 601 00:41:09.510 --> 00:41:15.030 a no fluff email that boils down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week 602 00:41:15.070 --> 00:41:20.739 of episodes. Sign up today at Sweet Phish Mediacom Big Three. That sweet 603 00:41:20.739 --> 00:41:22.579 PHISH MEDIACOM Big Three