#BTC 33: 3 Misconceptions About Thought Leadership (& How to Do It Right)

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:09.269 Welcome back to BEDB growth. This is timmy content strategist. I'm here again 2 00:00:09.310 --> 00:00:13.470 with James Carberry, founder and CEO, Logan Lyles are, director of partnerships, 3 00:00:13.669 --> 00:00:17.670 and Dan Sanchez, director of audience growth, and we are really excited 4 00:00:17.870 --> 00:00:23.420 to bring a part too of our thought leadership conversation. This came from a 5 00:00:24.059 --> 00:00:28.539 linkedin post by Laur Pellet Kengis, CMO At effic code, and he brought 6 00:00:28.579 --> 00:00:33.539 up some misconceptions on thought leadership that we really wanted to dive into today's we're 7 00:00:33.539 --> 00:00:37.770 going to be covering three misconceptions on thought leadership and how to do it right. 8 00:00:38.090 --> 00:00:41.609 Hey, guys, doing great, love it, ready to rock band. 9 00:00:42.210 --> 00:00:44.770 Couldn't be better. All right. So one of the things that came 10 00:00:44.810 --> 00:00:50.920 up in the conversation on Linkedin is the question of how to know when you're 11 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:54.960 when your face with the the the question of internal podcast, external podcast, 12 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:58.520 the things that you're sharing with your team. How do you make the decision 13 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:03.119 around what to share as thought leadership? And it really gets down to the 14 00:01:03.240 --> 00:01:07.310 misconception, I think, of not sharing what you're actually doing. Can you 15 00:01:07.349 --> 00:01:11.269 guys talk a little bit about how you how you make that decision and what 16 00:01:11.349 --> 00:01:15.150 are the some of the filters that go through your minds. I'll jump in 17 00:01:15.310 --> 00:01:19.420 here first because this is something that we've actively been thinking about as we build 18 00:01:19.459 --> 00:01:23.859 out our own thought leadership program and we looked at each one of the evangelists 19 00:01:23.900 --> 00:01:26.980 on our team that we are pushing out content through their personal profile. I 20 00:01:27.099 --> 00:01:32.340 was on Linkedin. We were talking about what is this balance between what they 21 00:01:32.420 --> 00:01:37.290 share that is specifically targeted at our buy our persona who are be to be 22 00:01:37.409 --> 00:01:41.930 marketing leaders, and what is not necessarily related to that. And you know. 23 00:01:42.090 --> 00:01:46.329 So the first question I asked myself is, would this be helpful to 24 00:01:46.769 --> 00:01:49.640 our target buyer persona? And I think you know, if it is, 25 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:52.840 then you should probably share it. You should probably share it quickly. You 26 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:56.560 should probably find three or four different ways to share it. Now, let's 27 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:00.120 say it's something that's helpful to your team. You know, James and I 28 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:06.469 had a conversation recently heard a podcast about using zoom in an open office concept, 29 00:02:06.950 --> 00:02:12.949 and that's not necessarily helpful in bdb marketing demandin you know, thinking about 30 00:02:12.949 --> 00:02:15.419 your content, but we genuinely felt like it was helpful, so we went 31 00:02:15.460 --> 00:02:20.180 ahead and shared it and in our own thought leadership program we actually look at. 32 00:02:20.500 --> 00:02:23.979 We started out with eighty percent of what each evangelist should be sharing should 33 00:02:23.979 --> 00:02:29.780 be directly helpful to the be tob marketer, and twenty percent should be stuff 34 00:02:29.780 --> 00:02:32.009 they're passionate about, stuff they're learning, those sorts of things, and we 35 00:02:32.129 --> 00:02:38.210 actually moved the needle on that back to fifty because we felt like it would 36 00:02:38.210 --> 00:02:42.409 help us be more consistent and in general we're going to be more helpful. 37 00:02:42.810 --> 00:02:45.360 And then, you know. So those are kind of the first two buckets. 38 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:47.919 And then the third thing to ask yourself is, is this something that 39 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:52.840 we're actually going to implement, we're going to do, or we just regurgitating 40 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:54.800 something that we heard elsewhere? James, I know you get pretty fired up 41 00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:57.960 about this, man. What do you got to add? Yeah, I 42 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:01.189 just think you're not going to become a thought leader if you haven't actually done 43 00:03:01.229 --> 00:03:07.469 something. I think the reason and you can't call yourself a thought leader either. 44 00:03:07.590 --> 00:03:09.990 That's another pet peeve. Please don't ever call yourself a thought leader. 45 00:03:10.030 --> 00:03:14.180 If you have thought leader in your linkedin headline, please remove it. It 46 00:03:14.699 --> 00:03:17.580 makes you look. It's is just a really, really bad look. But 47 00:03:19.500 --> 00:03:22.580 this idea of like you have to actually do something, to be a thought 48 00:03:22.580 --> 00:03:28.250 leader with us, like we obviously want people to perceive us as a thought 49 00:03:28.289 --> 00:03:31.210 leader, and some people on Linkedin have called US thought leaders around podcasting and 50 00:03:31.289 --> 00:03:36.689 and we get tagged in posts about podcasting because they see us posting about it 51 00:03:36.729 --> 00:03:42.960 a lot. We have very differentiated points of view on podcasting because we're actually 52 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:47.280 doing it day in, day out, multiple episodes a day on this show. 53 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:53.400 We produce eighty five other shows for lots of other BB brands. We 54 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:58.110 are in the weeds actually doing it, seeing what works and seeing what drives 55 00:03:58.189 --> 00:04:03.110 results. So it allows us to speak to that thing and so I just 56 00:04:03.270 --> 00:04:08.909 I just think if you are not actually doing the work and in the trenches, 57 00:04:09.509 --> 00:04:14.139 you're going to be perceived as irrelevant and out of touch. And it's 58 00:04:14.379 --> 00:04:18.379 not something that you can hack. You can't just regurgitate what Matt Hind said 59 00:04:18.740 --> 00:04:24.730 or what Dave Gearhart said or what Trishper Tuzi said and make it your own. 60 00:04:25.209 --> 00:04:30.410 Like they have thoughts because they're in the trenches doing the work. It 61 00:04:30.649 --> 00:04:34.250 like in Gary v's the same way that Gary v's operating a hundred plus million 62 00:04:34.290 --> 00:04:39.800 dollar business. That's why he has great content to share, because he's actually 63 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:43.759 doing it. That's why so many people think he's a quote unquote, thought 64 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:46.680 leader, and so I don't know it's you can only say that so many 65 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:53.110 times. You can't masquerade as a thought leader because people can sniff it out 66 00:04:53.149 --> 00:04:56.550 and it becomes really, really easy to sniff it out. Actually, you 67 00:04:56.670 --> 00:05:00.430 can tell within a few minutes whether somebody actually knows what they're talking about or 68 00:05:00.470 --> 00:05:03.829 not. And actually think it's okay for people to like consume a lot of 69 00:05:03.910 --> 00:05:08.540 content. I know Gary V's big on like not reading anything, so everything 70 00:05:08.579 --> 00:05:11.980 he does is original, which is cool, but I still read a ton 71 00:05:12.019 --> 00:05:15.660 of bucks. All of us are listening and reading to listening to podcast reading 72 00:05:15.740 --> 00:05:18.300 books, listening to audio books, and honestly, a lot of people put 73 00:05:18.300 --> 00:05:23.250 a lot of great information on your but it ends up panning out differently for 74 00:05:23.410 --> 00:05:27.209 you once you actually go to try it out, to practice it, and 75 00:05:27.529 --> 00:05:30.250 your spin on how to make it work might be the unlocked that somebody else 76 00:05:30.410 --> 00:05:32.930 needs, because, let's be honest, the book you read was probably the 77 00:05:33.009 --> 00:05:36.639 spend they had on someone else's content. That worked for them and now they're 78 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:42.199 playing it forward by writing about it themselves. So we just keep it going 79 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:46.720 and it it ends up helping everybody by being open with what you're learning and 80 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:48.319 how things are working out for you. Yeah, well, I mean and 81 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:51.430 so much of so much of the things we do here. It's wee fish 82 00:05:51.629 --> 00:05:58.350 have been influenced by never lose a customer, combined with Gift Ology by John 83 00:05:58.389 --> 00:06:02.910 Rulan, combined with how to win friends and influence people, combined with love 84 00:06:03.069 --> 00:06:09.060 does from Bob Goff. Like it's a collection of all of the inputs that 85 00:06:09.180 --> 00:06:16.220 you're taking in and and out outcomes your perspective and and you were spin on 86 00:06:16.540 --> 00:06:19.970 how this is going to work for us, and that's it. The other 87 00:06:20.050 --> 00:06:27.050 thing that I noticed with thought leadership that's really off putting is when you prescribe 88 00:06:27.290 --> 00:06:31.879 something and you put it out there with this closed fist, like this is 89 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:35.920 the only way to do something. You know, we're big on interview based 90 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:42.079 PODCASTS, are way more effective than narrative storytelling shows. I just did a 91 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:46.040 post on Linkedin this morning about this idea. I just don't think narrative storytelling 92 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:49.149 shows can be sustained. You know, it's going to cost you about thirty 93 00:06:49.189 --> 00:06:55.629 Fivezeros in episode to get a you know, per episode, to get one 94 00:06:55.670 --> 00:06:58.750 of those shows. Produced, and so you just can't sustain that cost. 95 00:06:58.829 --> 00:07:01.660 You can maybe do an eight episode series over eight weeks, but then you 96 00:07:01.740 --> 00:07:04.939 have to take a break for a year before you can afford to produce another 97 00:07:04.980 --> 00:07:11.379 series. And and so we go hard on that stance and it's backed by 98 00:07:11.459 --> 00:07:15.060 our results. We know our results. But the second that somebody chimes in 99 00:07:15.139 --> 00:07:18.290 and says, Hey, actually, we are getting better results than you are 100 00:07:18.850 --> 00:07:24.850 by only doing eight episode stretches of the Super High Quality type content. As 101 00:07:24.889 --> 00:07:28.689 soon as somebody says that, awesome, like hey, that that's not something 102 00:07:28.769 --> 00:07:31.040 we can afford to do. I can invest, you know, three hundred 103 00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:35.519 fifty thou for for a ten part series. But if you can and it's 104 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:40.839 driving results, great. I'm going to keep preaching what I think is true 105 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:44.430 for us, because I think it's applicable to a lot of companies that can 106 00:07:44.589 --> 00:07:48.389 afford three hundred fifty grand for a ten episode series of a Fancy Narrative podcast. 107 00:07:48.949 --> 00:07:54.470 But I think the posture of being openhanded and understanding that, hey, 108 00:07:54.509 --> 00:07:58.350 this works best for us and I think it's probably going to work best for 109 00:07:58.389 --> 00:08:01.220 a lot of other people. But this is not the only way to do 110 00:08:01.459 --> 00:08:03.860 this. There are other things that can work to. This is our way 111 00:08:03.939 --> 00:08:07.339 to do it and and it's a subtle shift, but it comes out in 112 00:08:07.420 --> 00:08:11.939 the way that you communicate your idea, your thoughts, and I think it's 113 00:08:11.060 --> 00:08:16.730 much more well received when it is communicated humbly and from that posture of Hey, 114 00:08:16.810 --> 00:08:20.490 this is what works for us and I really think it can work for 115 00:08:20.529 --> 00:08:24.250 a lot of other folks. But I'm also happy to be wrong and inviting 116 00:08:24.370 --> 00:08:31.240 that kind of critique often, I've just found has made our own content much 117 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:35.240 more palatable to folks. Yeah, as as a lot of people say, 118 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:37.919 Hey, if you're not drinking your own champagne, then you really don't have 119 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:41.909 any leg to stand on to to proclaim it. You know, if you 120 00:08:41.070 --> 00:08:46.830 sell to it in the enterprise and you're an enterprise organization and the things that 121 00:08:46.950 --> 00:08:52.070 you're talking about in how you should run your enterprise architecture you're not doing yourselves, 122 00:08:52.509 --> 00:08:54.940 then why should anybody listen saying for us? If we are talking about 123 00:08:54.980 --> 00:09:00.259 things in content marketing that we're not doing ourselves, we haven't even tried and 124 00:09:00.899 --> 00:09:05.899 and those two things, then who are we to proclaim something whether we heard 125 00:09:05.940 --> 00:09:09.409 it from somebody or not, if it's an original thought or it's a regurgitated 126 00:09:09.490 --> 00:09:13.370 thought. If you're not actually implementing it and have some unique thoughts on it, 127 00:09:13.850 --> 00:09:16.330 then just sharing it again, people are going to sniff that out and 128 00:09:16.409 --> 00:09:18.809 say, well, well, what about this? I don't really know. 129 00:09:18.970 --> 00:09:22.850 We haven't tried that then. Where are you telling me that this is what 130 00:09:22.970 --> 00:09:24.679 we need to do? So something I want to get you guys as hot 131 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.840 take on was a comment by Bob Apollo, and it says this is such 132 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:31.799 an important subject. So much of what is labeled thought leadership today is nothing 133 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:39.669 more than regurgitating statistics, misquoting secondhand thought followership, resulting in content that does 134 00:09:39.830 --> 00:09:43.870 neither the writer nor the reader any good. And then Laurie says something that 135 00:09:43.950 --> 00:09:48.590 I find interesting. He says, in the same way that the marketing department 136 00:09:48.669 --> 00:09:54.500 shouldn't determine the optimal recipe for your favorite sausage, the thought leading content shouldn't 137 00:09:54.500 --> 00:09:56.539 be left at the mercy of marketers. What do you see, your guys, 138 00:09:56.580 --> 00:10:00.779 as hot take on that thought? Gosh, that gets me so fired 139 00:10:00.820 --> 00:10:03.940 up. It's so funny because like they're complaining about a reality that just is 140 00:10:05.620 --> 00:10:09.009 and it doesn't apply just to thought leaders. It applies to good or bad 141 00:10:09.090 --> 00:10:13.690 products, good or bad ideas, politicians. Right, marketing is a superpower. 142 00:10:13.730 --> 00:10:18.009 It is good and good. Marketing can be used to pet all bad 143 00:10:18.129 --> 00:10:20.519 things, whether it's a thought leader or a company or a product or a 144 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:24.399 politician or something, and it's just a reality, like it's not going back. 145 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:26.960 We're not going to be able to stop it from happening. What we 146 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:31.720 can do, though, is use those marketing powers for good, you know, 147 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:37.029 like back real thought leaders, back good products and services and back good 148 00:10:37.029 --> 00:10:43.429 ideas. I think good thought leadership is a partnership between marketing and the experts 149 00:10:43.470 --> 00:10:48.590 within your organization that actually do know what the heck they're talking about. So, 150 00:10:48.190 --> 00:10:54.340 yeah, if you sell to CIOS and it professionals and your marketer is 151 00:10:54.419 --> 00:10:58.139 probably going to know a thing or two about that. You can't. It's 152 00:10:58.139 --> 00:11:01.059 hard to market something and not understand that. But if that marketer is not 153 00:11:01.580 --> 00:11:07.490 working in close conjunction with the experts that have, you know, that know 154 00:11:07.769 --> 00:11:13.529 everything there is to know about it infrastructure, and maybe they're your implementation specialists 155 00:11:13.529 --> 00:11:18.129 that are on the ground with customers every day. Maybe it's your own CIO, 156 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:24.960 marketing should be collaborating with those internal experts and that's what actually creates thoughtful 157 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:28.840 and meaningful content. The marketers know the distribution channels, they know the nuances 158 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:33.669 of the Linkedin Algorithm, they know how to get the content in front of 159 00:11:33.830 --> 00:11:37.789 the people that should should be seeing the content. So don't crap on the 160 00:11:37.870 --> 00:11:43.350 marketer. The marketer is bringing immense value, but it's a partnership between the 161 00:11:43.389 --> 00:11:50.299 marketer actually getting the content from the great source internally and then getting that content 162 00:11:50.419 --> 00:11:54.620 in front of the people that is actually going to help. I think that's 163 00:11:54.659 --> 00:11:58.580 happening so often and I don't know if it's marketers wanting the shortcut of not 164 00:11:58.779 --> 00:12:03.169 having to dig in deep with those industry experts, whether that's in talent and 165 00:12:03.330 --> 00:12:09.610 people ops or it or in marketing or in sales, or if it's just 166 00:12:09.450 --> 00:12:13.889 we've gotten so used to well, marketing is all just like growth hacking and 167 00:12:15.009 --> 00:12:18.000 everything there. You don't actually need any substance. You just need to figure 168 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:22.399 out what adds to run, what content to put on the blog and do 169 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:26.480 all of these hacky things. But if there's no if there's no substance, 170 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:31.149 none of those tactics work. They have to be full. It's like going 171 00:12:31.309 --> 00:12:35.389 around firing a blank gun. That isn't loaded right. Maybe there's a better 172 00:12:35.429 --> 00:12:41.789 analyzy right now, but I'm just I'm thinking, James, about how you 173 00:12:41.909 --> 00:12:45.340 know some of the best marketers I know, whether they have an interview based 174 00:12:45.379 --> 00:12:50.820 podcast or they have a strategy for Youtube or just internally to document and get 175 00:12:50.860 --> 00:12:56.220 time with their subject matter experts, internally and externally. That's where they start. 176 00:12:56.340 --> 00:12:58.929 They go to the source, they go to their internal same's, they 177 00:12:58.970 --> 00:13:05.210 go to customers, they go to prospects, they go to industry influences and 178 00:13:05.289 --> 00:13:07.090 thought leaders. And I'm not talking about like these big name, you know, 179 00:13:07.129 --> 00:13:11.929 quote unquote influencers. I'm talking about like who are the micro in fluencers 180 00:13:11.970 --> 00:13:13.679 in your space, like in marketing. I think of Matt Hines, I 181 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:18.399 think of Chris Walker, I think of Guy Tonotenardi. They're not household names, 182 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:20.720 but people in need to be marketing know those names, are following those 183 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:24.799 people on Linkedin and so going to the source, going to the people who 184 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:30.669 know what they're talking about. It's the marketers job to pull that gold out 185 00:13:30.710 --> 00:13:33.269 of them and then to use that in all the ways where, as you 186 00:13:33.470 --> 00:13:37.629 said, they add the most value crafting it, putting it together, finding 187 00:13:37.750 --> 00:13:41.460 the themes, telling the story, figuring out which tactics are going to be 188 00:13:41.620 --> 00:13:46.059 most effective, testing and iterating. That's where marketing can add the most value. 189 00:13:46.059 --> 00:13:50.340 It's when they skip that first step that Dan, I think you know, 190 00:13:50.940 --> 00:13:54.809 Lori and Bob on this linked impost are getting frustrated with marketing because it's 191 00:13:54.889 --> 00:14:00.090 the it's the marketing teams that, either by choice or being forced by their 192 00:14:00.129 --> 00:14:03.210 executive team, to skip that first step. Leads to what they're talking about. 193 00:14:03.210 --> 00:14:07.450 I think great yes, and I love that you advocate for Bob and 194 00:14:07.490 --> 00:14:09.840 Laura here with their with what they're noticing. I mean clearly there must be 195 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:16.159 a problem that's contributing to all this bad behavior. They reference the dunning Krueger 196 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.960 effect, that being the biased toward confidence of someone who really shouldn't have confidence 197 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:24.269 because they have a small amount of experience or or research on a topic. 198 00:14:26.070 --> 00:14:30.230 You guys say that the contributor, like using contributors a great way to avoid 199 00:14:30.269 --> 00:14:33.110 that pitfall. Are there any other things marketers should do to make sure that 200 00:14:33.230 --> 00:14:39.299 they are actually serving rather than promoting themselves as a thought leader when they don't 201 00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:43.259 truly deserve it? I don't know that I have a direct answer to that 202 00:14:43.419 --> 00:14:46.340 question. To me, but I want to I want to go back to 203 00:14:46.500 --> 00:14:48.659 what you alluded to there, which is, which is. I think the 204 00:14:48.779 --> 00:14:56.730 misconception of thought leadership is that that you can do thought leadership without caring deeply 205 00:14:56.769 --> 00:15:01.769 about the people that you're serving and that that, to me, is a 206 00:15:01.970 --> 00:15:05.250 misconception. Josh Steinley talks about it in his seven systems of influence. He 207 00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:09.639 says that that seventh system is love. And if you don't have a love, 208 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:11.519 love for what you're doing, love for the people that you're trying to 209 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:16.320 help, love for the industry, then you're going to flame out. People 210 00:15:16.360 --> 00:15:18.679 are going to see through what you're saying. It's going to look like a 211 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:22.990 veiled attempt at, you know, conversion, getting someone to sign up for 212 00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:26.870 a demo or whatever. Yeah, I think about my friend Lucas mccurdy and 213 00:15:28.509 --> 00:15:33.190 he exemplifies this spirit of love for this senior living industry. He's a construction 214 00:15:33.230 --> 00:15:39.419 company, he owns a construction company and he created this podcast called bridge the 215 00:15:39.500 --> 00:15:43.179 gap, the senior living podcast. They go on site to conferences all through 216 00:15:43.179 --> 00:15:46.820 the year, obviously before covid and he was so passionate about the space. 217 00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:52.169 He wanted people in the space. You wanted operators in senior living to understand 218 00:15:52.169 --> 00:15:54.250 that there's a better way to do this, that that the people that are 219 00:15:54.289 --> 00:16:00.210 in their care, these the older population, they are worth caring for and 220 00:16:00.250 --> 00:16:03.129 they're worth loving well. And he just you. You can't have a conversation 221 00:16:03.210 --> 00:16:08.240 with Lucas and not see that his heart, believe, needs for those people. 222 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:14.600 He cares deeply about the vendors in the space, the the population that 223 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:18.429 those that the houses served, and that that spreads out through all of his 224 00:16:18.549 --> 00:16:22.190 content, the content he puts on Linkedin, the podcast that they do or 225 00:16:22.309 --> 00:16:26.190 the content they do through their podcast when he's on site and an event. 226 00:16:26.549 --> 00:16:32.029 And so I don't think you can understate actually needing to love what you're doing 227 00:16:32.230 --> 00:16:37.419 and I think it's almost tied to actually doing it because, at least in 228 00:16:37.539 --> 00:16:41.620 our case, this this may not be, you know, this analogy or 229 00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:45.019 not analogy, but this story might not tie back to Lucas's situation specifically, 230 00:16:45.379 --> 00:16:51.289 but I know that for us, I'm so passionate about BEDB podcasting because I've 231 00:16:51.450 --> 00:16:56.210 literally built a seven figure business from scratch, bootstrapped. No outside you know, 232 00:16:56.330 --> 00:17:02.000 no it outside investors, nobody's giving us twenty million dollars we have bootstrapped 233 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:07.640 to seven figure business that employs twenty plus people now because this stuff actually worked 234 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:11.240 for us, and so I can speak from a place of passion and excitement 235 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:18.589 and love because it's worked for me, and I think that's what that's what 236 00:17:18.829 --> 00:17:22.869 gives so much weight to the content that we're able to share about this stuff 237 00:17:22.190 --> 00:17:27.109 is because we're not pontificating and we're not we're not regurgitating what someone else is 238 00:17:27.150 --> 00:17:32.099 saying. We've actually done it and because we've done it and seen results from 239 00:17:32.099 --> 00:17:34.420 it, we have what you know, just Josh Steinley refers to, is 240 00:17:34.539 --> 00:17:40.339 love. We have that passion, we have that that thing that takes you 241 00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:45.410 from boring to engaging. I love that you brought up Lucas James. He 242 00:17:45.569 --> 00:17:49.410 was right in your in my mind, right right as you were talking about 243 00:17:49.410 --> 00:17:52.529 that, I was like, if he doesn't talk about Lucas, I'm going 244 00:17:52.730 --> 00:17:56.849 to, because Lucas could have gone the typical route, like all right, 245 00:17:56.930 --> 00:18:02.519 let's have a twenty year old marketing intern scrape the web for listicles on construction 246 00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:07.720 and listicles on on senior living. You know ten ways to avoid pitfalls in 247 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.640 your reconstruction project. Of your senior living home. It's way too long ahead, 248 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:15.230 like, but something like that right, and what you just said there, 249 00:18:15.269 --> 00:18:18.829 James. I want to be encouraging two folks. Maybe there's someone out 250 00:18:18.869 --> 00:18:22.990 there listening to this WHO's a marketing leader and they've just joined a new company 251 00:18:23.230 --> 00:18:26.500 and it's in a new space that they've never served before and they're like, 252 00:18:26.900 --> 00:18:32.059 well, crap, I don't have five years of deep knowledge in this industry 253 00:18:32.140 --> 00:18:34.700 and passion for it. But I love this company, I love what they're 254 00:18:34.700 --> 00:18:38.700 doing, but I just don't have that well to draw from. So my 255 00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:42.890 encouragement is do what we were talking about earlier. Go to the well. 256 00:18:44.569 --> 00:18:47.490 Start, you know, dipping the cup in and sharing it with people, 257 00:18:47.529 --> 00:18:52.089 and as you do that you will start to become very passionate about it. 258 00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:56.079 I mean, I think back two years ago when I started at Sweetish in 259 00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:00.440 my career, ten years of B tob sales kind of adjacent to marketing. 260 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:04.440 I was always I picture myself as a salesperson who kind of knew enough marketing 261 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:08.279 to be dangerous from my journalism background. But you know, I hopped in 262 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:14.230 and I wasn't doing a lot of solo episodes on on content and thought leadership 263 00:19:14.349 --> 00:19:18.269 and podcasting because I didn't I know anything. I was just hopping on and 264 00:19:18.430 --> 00:19:22.670 and talking to vpie's of marketing and CMOS and saying, what's working for you? 265 00:19:22.829 --> 00:19:26.420 What are you dealing with? And I just I just became a student 266 00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:30.019 of be to be marketing. Now, two years later, a lot of 267 00:19:30.099 --> 00:19:33.819 my episodes are still the same way. I'm I'm still consistently learning from the 268 00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:37.859 people in this space that we're very passionate about serving. But along the way 269 00:19:37.420 --> 00:19:41.890 my passion, my understanding, my expertise in the in the space has grown 270 00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:47.130 as well, and so then it allows me to share what I'm hearing from 271 00:19:47.609 --> 00:19:52.490 the the experts than the practitioners. But I've become a practitioner myself, or 272 00:19:52.569 --> 00:19:56.920 I'm at least walking alongside them. Right and you might be a marketing leader 273 00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:00.039 who serves ITT and you're not. You know, just because you're interviewing them 274 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.519 doesn't mean you're going back with your it leader and you know, rolling out 275 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:07.349 a cloud migration or something like that. But you you've had enough conversations externally 276 00:20:07.470 --> 00:20:14.069 and internally to develop that passion to hear the common challenges and get plugged into 277 00:20:14.109 --> 00:20:17.750 that community. So if you kind of check yourself and say, I don't 278 00:20:17.750 --> 00:20:21.980 have that today. You can. You just have to be consistent about having 279 00:20:21.980 --> 00:20:26.940 those conversations and then it will happen for you. Looking. Can you go 280 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:29.980 through those three misconceptions? I want to make sure we touched on all of 281 00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:33.900 them. Yeah, so we we talked about not sharing what you're actually doing. 282 00:20:33.980 --> 00:20:38.410 So I think Laurie's question is this is something valuable internally, should we 283 00:20:38.450 --> 00:20:41.890 see it externally? Ninety percent of the time we're going to say yes, 284 00:20:41.970 --> 00:20:47.250 because we're big believers in the way Gary v does stuff and document over create 285 00:20:47.490 --> 00:20:49.759 and and more often than not, if it's something that's in the weeds. 286 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:52.480 I think that's where a lot of people get their content wrong. They think 287 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.359 they have to keep it high level, but then you sound like everybody else. 288 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.559 So share what you're actually doing. Don't just regurgitate what you hear. 289 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:03.630 Otherwise, like what you said, James, several books have influence the way 290 00:21:03.670 --> 00:21:07.910 we do business, but we didn't just take those things and say here our 291 00:21:07.029 --> 00:21:11.589 top five lessons from love does. We started implementing things. Then we learn 292 00:21:11.630 --> 00:21:14.950 little things along the way and then we shared those. Those things where the 293 00:21:14.990 --> 00:21:18.029 rubber meets the road. And then the third is you've got to be service 294 00:21:18.150 --> 00:21:22.180 oriented. You've got to come from a place of love to really serve the 295 00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:26.299 audience that you're trying to reach and develop your brand as a thought leader. 296 00:21:26.779 --> 00:21:30.259 For how do you guys want to end this episode? Do you want to 297 00:21:30.700 --> 00:21:33.450 create some sort of call to action to continue the conversation on Linkedin? I 298 00:21:33.569 --> 00:21:40.369 do have a thought, the idea that people should aspire to become thought leaders 299 00:21:40.970 --> 00:21:45.130 if they have, if they want to, you know, pay the price 300 00:21:45.289 --> 00:21:48.000 of doing it, because there is a price to doing it. It's not 301 00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:52.160 easy, but it's not a bad aspiration to have. It's a good aspiration 302 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:56.599 to have if you're doing it from a place of love. Yeah, you're 303 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:00.519 helping maybe dozens and hundreds. I and I think it gets a bad rap 304 00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:03.470 right. That's why I think you're saying this is I think if people have 305 00:22:03.990 --> 00:22:10.829 told themselves that it's that it's bad that they aspire for thought leadership. But 306 00:22:10.990 --> 00:22:15.269 if you flip it a different way, it's like I aspire to influence others 307 00:22:15.349 --> 00:22:21.460 with something that's changed me. Yeah, of course that's a that. It's 308 00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:22.900 just a different way of spinning it. But you're saying the same thing. 309 00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:26.940 Right now. Yeah, and Dan, so I think if you say like, 310 00:22:27.259 --> 00:22:30.289 you know, to kind of summon up. Yeah, those are three 311 00:22:30.369 --> 00:22:34.009 of the pitfalls. But then what do you do from there? Here's kind 312 00:22:34.049 --> 00:22:38.289 of might take on it and and lead into that to pivot off that last 313 00:22:38.329 --> 00:22:44.130 misconception you just went off of Logan ending with love. I think we could 314 00:22:44.130 --> 00:22:48.079 tie this episode up with the fact that there's a lot of bad rap around 315 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:52.039 thought leadership. It. There's a lot of people trying to, you know, 316 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.680 use it as a manipulative way. But if you really go at it 317 00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:59.309 from love, if you really come at it from a place where you want 318 00:22:59.309 --> 00:23:03.670 to serve others and make others, the lives of others better, or their 319 00:23:03.750 --> 00:23:07.230 work better or something better, because it you found something that made your life 320 00:23:07.230 --> 00:23:11.069 better, then that's a good thing and I think because of that, more 321 00:23:11.230 --> 00:23:15.660 people really should aspire to be thought leaders. Like you don't have to shrink 322 00:23:15.700 --> 00:23:18.779 back from it being like, oh, that's kind of a cringey thing, 323 00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:19.619 I don't know if I want it. I want it, but I don't 324 00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:22.339 want it. I just want to affirm the people that are wrestling with it, 325 00:23:22.700 --> 00:23:26.180 that are like I feel like I have something to offer, but I 326 00:23:26.259 --> 00:23:29.450 don't know if that's something I should even want to want or like I'm not 327 00:23:29.529 --> 00:23:32.569 allowed to want. You can want it and it's a good thing. It's 328 00:23:32.569 --> 00:23:36.650 a noble thing, just like starting a genuine business as a noble way to 329 00:23:36.730 --> 00:23:41.170 serve you know, you're your fellow man or woman. Right, being a 330 00:23:41.289 --> 00:23:45.799 thought leader from a place of love is a service to your fellow human beings. 331 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.079 I think your spot on their day and I it is become this dirty 332 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:52.960 word that that nobody is like. Oh No, you know, I even 333 00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:57.230 have visceral reactions when people call themselves a thought leader. But the reality is, 334 00:23:57.470 --> 00:24:02.589 of course I aspire to thought leadership. Not can't call myself one, 335 00:24:02.910 --> 00:24:07.190 but I aspire to it. And it's so funny to me that that can 336 00:24:07.230 --> 00:24:11.420 be perceived as negative. But me saying that I I aspire to be a 337 00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:15.900 person of influence, well that WHO doesn't aspire to be a person of influence? 338 00:24:15.940 --> 00:24:18.539 I mean, obviously there are some people that don't, but a lot 339 00:24:18.579 --> 00:24:22.460 of people would say they aspire to be a leader or they aspire to be 340 00:24:23.220 --> 00:24:27.369 a person of influence. Well, that's what a thought leader is. A 341 00:24:27.490 --> 00:24:33.809 thought leader is somebody who has been transformed by something and they want to evangelize 342 00:24:33.930 --> 00:24:37.680 what that thing is that worked for them, so that other people can get 343 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.559 value from it and when, in a similar way, that they've won. 344 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:45.079 And that, to me, is is the essence of thought leadership and what 345 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:52.440 what actually makes people consider you a thought leader is man this, this person 346 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:56.109 has done something great. Gary V has built a hundred million dollar plus business 347 00:24:56.589 --> 00:25:00.750 and he employs eight hundred people and he's done it in a way that's kind 348 00:25:00.829 --> 00:25:04.950 and loving and caring and empathetic and, you know, like he's built a 349 00:25:06.069 --> 00:25:10.299 honey empire, as he calls it, because he's done it, and I 350 00:25:10.539 --> 00:25:15.539 cannot tell you enough the service that Gary v has done to me as a 351 00:25:15.619 --> 00:25:18.940 young entrepreneur. We would not be the size of business that we are today 352 00:25:19.099 --> 00:25:22.849 and and I would not have the vision that I have for where I think 353 00:25:22.930 --> 00:25:30.569 this business is going to go. Apart from Gary imparting his wisdom through digital 354 00:25:30.930 --> 00:25:37.440 forms of media into my brain. Thank God for Gary that that he was, 355 00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:41.119 that he was willing to say, yeah, I will, I want 356 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:45.400 to be a person of influence, I want to take what has transformed me 357 00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:49.630 and I want to help his many people as I possibly can. Thank God 358 00:25:49.789 --> 00:25:53.390 for that, like because I would be different, this business would be different, 359 00:25:53.470 --> 00:26:00.509 the the lives that this business touches would would not be as positively impacted. 360 00:26:00.589 --> 00:26:03.579 Apart from Gary, these influence on my own life. Of course I 361 00:26:03.779 --> 00:26:07.980 want to have that type of influence on another human being. That's that is 362 00:26:08.140 --> 00:26:12.019 I love the way you said it, and that is an incredibly noble purpose 363 00:26:12.339 --> 00:26:17.380 and an incredibly noble thing to aspire to. So I love that. Man. 364 00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:19.450 I don't think that thought leadership should be a dirty word. I think 365 00:26:19.490 --> 00:26:23.089 it should be something that we aspire to. But it has to come from 366 00:26:23.089 --> 00:26:26.089 a place of service, like what you said earlier, Logan. It has 367 00:26:26.130 --> 00:26:30.890 to come from a deep place of service and actually wanting people to win, 368 00:26:32.490 --> 00:26:37.200 caring that people win and sharing that thing that's worked for you with others. 369 00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.279 And and I think people can smell it from a mile away when it's not 370 00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:42.400 there, but they can also see it when it is and I think that's 371 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.759 when it's really powerful. So, man, this this has been a super 372 00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:51.150 fun conversation. If you're listening to this and you have not already connected with 373 00:26:51.390 --> 00:26:53.950 all of us on Linkedin, Dan Sanchez, Logan Lyles, myself, James 374 00:26:53.990 --> 00:26:57.910 Carberry, car be Aar why I'm the only one with a weird, weird 375 00:26:59.029 --> 00:27:02.779 spelling for my last name. Timmy is also on on Linkedin as well. 376 00:27:02.859 --> 00:27:07.019 Timothy Bauer be a UEER. Yeah, I don't know, I just spelled 377 00:27:07.059 --> 00:27:11.740 that hours pretty coming. But anyway, connect with us on Linkedin and give 378 00:27:11.779 --> 00:27:14.619 us, give us a little rating on BB growth. We're figuring out that. 379 00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:15.930 We don't need you to leave a review. We just we just need 380 00:27:17.009 --> 00:27:19.769 that rating. So tap on the number of stars that you think this podcast 381 00:27:19.890 --> 00:27:26.049 deserves. I hope this content is incredibly helpful for you and feel free to 382 00:27:26.410 --> 00:27:29.210 comment on this stuff if you disagree with us, if you think we're wrong. 383 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:33.119 The reason we did this entire episode was because Lori posted about the episode 384 00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.039 on linked it. Now it was a it was a flattering post and he 385 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:40.599 said how much value he got from the last thought leadership episode we did. 386 00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:44.750 But because he did that post on Linkedin, we ended up doing an entire 387 00:27:44.789 --> 00:27:48.230 episode about it. And so comment, engage with us. Shoot us a 388 00:27:48.269 --> 00:27:52.269 message on Linkedin or it would be awesome if you posted about it, but 389 00:27:52.829 --> 00:27:56.430 let us know. We love to create content like this that is actually helpful 390 00:27:56.549 --> 00:28:00.859 and continues the conversation. That's what we think this podcast is. It is 391 00:28:00.940 --> 00:28:07.579 a continual conversation. Be To be. Marketing is always evolving and we want 392 00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:11.259 to be at the forefront of that evolution and we want to help as many 393 00:28:11.299 --> 00:28:15.049 people find success in growing their business. So thank you so much for listening. 394 00:28:15.369 --> 00:28:22.329 We love you a tongue. Are you on Linkedin? That's a stupid 395 00:28:22.369 --> 00:28:26.569 question. Of course you're on Linkedin. Here's so we fish. We've gone 396 00:28:26.609 --> 00:28:30.200 all in on the platform. Multiple people from our team are creating content there. 397 00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:34.119 Sometimes it's a funny gift for me, other times it's a micro video 398 00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:38.000 or a slide deck, and sometimes it's just a regular old status update that 399 00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:42.670 shares their unique point of view on be Tob Marketing, leadership or their job 400 00:28:42.789 --> 00:28:48.869 function. We're posting this content through their personal profile, not our company page, 401 00:28:48.069 --> 00:28:52.869 and it would warm my heart and soul if you connected with each of 402 00:28:52.950 --> 00:28:56.900 our evangelists. will be adding more down the road, but for now you 403 00:28:56.940 --> 00:29:00.660 should connect with bill read, our COO, Kelsey Montgomery, our creative director, 404 00:29:00.700 --> 00:29:06.059 Dan Sanchez, our director of audience growth, Logan Lyles, are Director 405 00:29:06.099 --> 00:29:08.740 of partnerships, and me, James Carberry. We are having a whole lot 406 00:29:08.779 --> 00:29:12.049 of fun on Linkedin. Pretty much every single day, and we'd love for 407 00:29:12.089 --> 00:29:12.769 you to be a part of it