Transcript
WEBVTT
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Coaches, someone who tells you what
you don't want to hear, who has
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you see what you don't want to
see so you can be who you've always
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known you could be. This is
the CEO series on BB growth. I'm
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John Belazier, editor of the CEO
Playbook and online publication full of stories from
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real CEOS and practical sage advice for
founders and CEOS of high growth companies.
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Today we'll be talking about CEO coaches. What is a CEO coach? Why
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would a CEO need one? What
are the different types of coaches were also
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discussed. Insights from the New York
Times best selling book trillion dollar coach by
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Co author Eric Schmidt. For today's
episode I'm joined by a special guest,
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Bob Kramer. Bob is a five
time CEO turned coach. He is one
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of the leading CEOS of venture backed
high growth companies. He's navigated multiple startups
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from series a to liquidity and knows
what it's like to be in the CEO
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set. He was even featured on
the cover of ink magazine in Two Thousand
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and eight as the serial CEEO.
That VC's love and startups one his passion
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is empowering CEOS, especially founders,
to thrive in their position while remaining balanced
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and fulfilled in their personal life.
Okay, let's get into it. Bob,
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welcome to the show. Thanks,
John. How are you today?
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Good, good, thanks for doing
this. Sure this is going to be
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exciting and fun. We don't want
to use up, to hope, podcast
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time, but just sort of give
us a tour and land us when you
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when you first became a coach.
You Bet I'm going to do it.
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A very long history and hopefully a
short amount of time. Okay, I
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actually did like graduate at CAL Berkeley
and I was lucky enough to meet be
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in the west coast in the S, which was a great time to be
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there. And my first startup company
was actually with one of my advisor professors
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when I was doing my graduate work
at CAL Berkeley. So I did my
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first start up there and and if
I was doing being doing product management at
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the time for a database product.
And then a very good friend of mine
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was doing the recruiting for a company
called Oracle. At the time it was
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one little three story building on Twenty
Davis Drive and Belmont California, and and
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convinced me to interview there and first
few times they felt how could you go
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to a competitor? But the third, third or fourth time I went there
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it was just the tough flor is
just filled with these intensely brilliant, driven
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people who want to win, and
that felt more like my kind of people.
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So I actually went there and it
was a great ride. Went there
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joined when the company's about forty fifty
million revenue and we took it in four
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years to over a billion in revenue. So it was a fun ride to
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see. So a lot of my
learnings, both good and bad, were
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there in terms of how do you
how do you motivate? How do you
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align an organized station that's growing that
fast? How do you hire great people
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and keep the the caliber of the
team as high as it needs to be
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when you need to hire over a
hundred percent of per year? How do
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you make mistakes and identify them very
quickly and just take them out and move
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on? So it's just tremendous learnings
when I was there anyway. So moving
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on, I did my I was
in the West Coast, had my first
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kid and I was from from the
Boston area, so moved to Boston with
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my family, did a couple of
startups in the software tool space, did
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the first application formans management company,
did one of the first online backup companies.
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And that brings us to kind of
middle of two thousands where I sort
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of stopped working and was just doing
a lot of angel investing and meeting with
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entrepreneurs and having lots of coffees and
beers. And One person finally said to
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me, you know what, I've
been interviewing for a CEO coach and I've
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met with a whole bunch of them, but no one gives me the kind
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of support and advice that I get
from you. Would you be mine?
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And John, I don't know,
but you. But I was to CEEO
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five companies. I never had a
CEO coach. I didn't even know what
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want it was, to be honest
with you. So I said sure,
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but let me think, I get
to figure what it is first. But
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I started doing it then and I
have not looked back. I've loved every
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minute of it. What the the
interesting thing about that is that, having
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been a CEO five companies, you
have a lot of different situations that you
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can bring to the table and understanding
and a lot of empathy in terms of
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what the job entails through different stages
of growth. So I brought that to
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the table. That's great. It's
a great, great segue actually, and
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probably a good a good segue into
the key question, which is, if
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you're Seeo, you know, how
do you know you need a coach and
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what is a coach? Let's start
with what is a coach? Is it
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like the coach of a basketball team
or what is? Person was asking you,
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would you be my coach now that
you had gone out and in Figue
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it out what it is, how
would you describe what a coach is,
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what a studio coaches? Well,
it starts with just being a trusted confidant.
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As you know, having been a
CEO, it's one of the loneliest
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jobs that exists because when you're challenged
with serious things that you have to figure
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out, or if things you have
to do as you're figuring it out.
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Now we figure out it as you're
figuring it out. You can't really bring
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those big question marks and insecurities to
the team, you can't bring those insecurities
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to the board and you certainly don't
want to bring home to your spouse.
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So so the questions you know and
you end and you don't want to just
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do too much internal thinking. So
just having someone to really use as a
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sounding board to bounce ideas off of, to create a safe space to explore
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any problem, issue opportunity in front
of you and have that person hopefully have
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some degree of expertise to help you
see things very, very clearly as to
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what they are, what the situation
is and what possibilities exist. That's kind
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of what a coach is. It's
not consultants who comes in as I have
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this expertise, I'm going to look
at your situation, I'm going to tell
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you exactly what to do. The
coach doesn't tell someone what to do.
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A coach points out opportunities and ears
for improvement and gets you to see things
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more clearly and more broadly, without
filters that might get in your way,
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and and then helps you figure out
how to go execute on it. HMM,
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so it's not a consultant and it's
not a mentor. It's almost like
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a confidante, a conciguliary of you. Really here's the a little bit of
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bad this. There's certainly a lot
of mentorship in there and and advisory work
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in their mentors are tremendous. Advisors
are tremendous. Typically, advisors are you
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bring advisor and board because they bring
a certain expertise the table that that's helpful
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to augment what you're doing. Mentors
are great when, every now and then
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the hey, let's go grab a
coffee every once a month and have a
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discussion. I want to post some
ideas off you. Those are great.
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Coaches tend to be a more regular
thing. For instance, I meet with
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my CEOS every single week for about
an hour, and that regularity enables you
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to have a certain level of understanding
of the individual, the situation, the
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business, the board, the products, the team, the culture. That
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familiarity gives you an opportunity to help
them set forward the things that they say
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they're going to do and hold them
to a certain degree and hold and accountable
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to delivering that. It's a very
close, important, trusted relationship that to
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be perfect. Fact I've had I
known about it, I would have I
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would have loved have had I when
I was to see you. Yeah,
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no, I I was fortunate to
have have a coach in my last company.
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I was looking for someone initially who
could teach me about the industry that
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I was going into hum and you
know, this person was certainly very helpful
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in that regard to but ultimately our
relationship evolved to more of a coaching relationship
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and you know, he really helped
me to, as you said, find
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a place to take all the things
that were happening in my head right and
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put it put them out, put
them out in a safe place, as
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likely as they may be, as
ugly as they may be, right and
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deal with the thorny issues that you
have to deal with this as a CEO
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and it's just a valuable relationship to
have with someone who is not a peer
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or not a cofounder, not a
spouse or a partner, that really understands
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what it's like to be in your
seat and you can you can have a
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real conversation with so tell us,
tell us how you you approached those types
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of conversations. How long have you
been doing it for now? It's been
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a it's full time for about ten
years and part time quite a bit longer
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than that. Well, it's great. I know, John, you were
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in a peer CEO Group, weren't
you? Yes, yeah, it was,
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I was as well. I think
was actually the same one at different
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times. Yeah, that also as
a foundation for helping other CEOS. That
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was that we got together. It
was every quarter for two full days a
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quarter or so, big, big
commitment, typically with seven other CEO so
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we had eight hundred eight eight people
the table and each one bringing their toughest
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issue to the table every single time. So over the eight years I did
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that there was about two hundred and
fifty samplings of everything you could possibly go
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through, and growing a series a
company to a liquidity and having that as
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background is pretty pretty tremendous. I'm
sure you found that useful as well.
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Right, absolutely, absolutely. And
what I find is, even though I
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was fortunate to have access to that
CEO Forum, that that kind of CEO
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Group, Peer Group, which I
think is extremely valuable, you still need
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to coach. Don't chant. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I did.
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I felt like the regularity again,
back to the regularity and the trusted space,
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and I focus almost exclusively on series
a and series B venture backed technology
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growth companies. HMM. So in
those environments, every six to twelve months
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the job almost fundamentally changes and you
have to change with it, you have
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to grow with it. The party
keeps getting raised. So the level of
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frequencies pretty important, and the other
things just like the opportunity cost of not
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knocking down a problem now as opposed
to a month or two months from now.
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It's just too huge when you're growing
that fast. Let's talk a little
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bit about how you approach the coaching. How do you go about coaching a
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CEEO? What's the first step?
First step is making certain there's a relationship
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that works. So before we am
before you enter into a coaching relationship as
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a CEO, I'd encourage you to
absolutely meet with a person, get a
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visceral sense as to whether there's a
connection there, whether you can trust this
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person, whether this person gets what
you're saying. So and then, as
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a coach, the inverse, that
is, is the CEO really the selfaware
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enough there the type of people want
to learn and want to want to be
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a substantially better than where they are
right now? Are they defensive in their
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positions or they inquisitive as to wanting
to understand why? So step one is
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is their match? Are they coachable? So once you get past that,
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my first step is doing an assessment, and that assessment often times can either
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be a self assessment by the CEO
or even a three hundred and sixty assessment
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of the CEO, board and and
executive team. Against I've got ten dimensions
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of what I'll call a prototypical perfect
CEO, even the one doesn't exist,
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but it gives us a foundation of
knowing, know where we feel we're strong,
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where we feel there are gaps in
terms of areas that we need to
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be developed, and then, based
on where the stage of the company and
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where we are, we codevelop a
development plan for the CEO that says here's
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here the primary errors we want to
work on over the next six to twelve
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months. That with with a clear
actionable things we can be doing. So
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you do the three hundred and sixty
survey, you sent out to the board,
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the CEOS, direct reports, etc. And you go one level below
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the management team. Are you stop
at the Management Team? I stop the
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management team and that that comes back
and then you get it. You get
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a picture of sort of potential problem
areas perhaps, or it's going to be
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things like some people the Board interactions
relationships are outstanding and natural for them.
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Others they just have no idea what
the level of communication needs to be and
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what types of things you can be
talking to a word about others are really,
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really, really great at defining and
building a cadence of how to manage
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the company. Others just have no
idea early on as to how do you
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set long term direction? How do
you provide clarity of path to get there?
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How do you build a how do
you do organizational design? How do
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you build the right team? How
do you define culture that works for you?
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How do you facilitate driving alignment?
And I'm powerman's an accountability into the
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organ deep into the organization. So
it's not as if there's these people are
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deficient. It's just that they maybe
haven't done it before or they haven't focused
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on it before, and and it
and a different stages of growth the company.
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Certain things are more important than others. Interesting, when would you say
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a CEO knows they need a coach? Like how would you if you were
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talking to a CEO and they were
questioning whether they need a coach? How
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would you enter the I'll ask you
a different question. What supports do you
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like? Golf, okay, and
ball room dancing, right, okay,
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well, right, great, awesome. So both of those do you do?
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You can you imagine anyone who's top
of their game, not people who
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don't know what they're doing and they
need a coach, but anyone's is actually
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very, very good and wants to
be better that doesn't have a coach in
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any field whatsoever. No, non
existent. Right. We can't think of
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one exactly, and that's why I
think it's so strange for people to think
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of well, it's like it's a
problem that someone needs to see coach.
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It's almost the other way around.
If you're really good, you want to
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get better, and actually going going
from really go to to off the charts
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amazing is tough first set of steps, then being pretty bad to okay.
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Right, and and the the benefit
of the people I work with, which
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I'm just I am black us to
work with these these folks there. They
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tend to be CEOS of series A, series B venture back companies by top
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venture firms. Those folks have already
vetted the market, the technology, the
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product potential and, most importantly,
the the cee on the leader of the
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company. Right. So they are
smart, they are driven, they have
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they know, they have a vision
and it's so it's not really these aren't
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really deficiencies. These suggest skills.
That for the skills that need to be
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developed based on where the company is
and what they have to achieve it.
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And so to play that back,
everyone needs to see OK, everyone needs
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need to see her, but I
will if you seeo that wants to be
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better. Right, if you if
you are focused on mastery, yeah,
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coaching is the way to get there, right. I mean you look at
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any sport. I think it's a
better way to say that. Absolutely.
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I mean, if you are if
you are CEO and you are very happy
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with your business and you're growing five
percent a year and you get a certain
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level of attrition, you just hired
a full up backfill Ed attrition and and
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you're happy. Maybe you don't need
one because you're you're quite complacent. But
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I don't know any CEO. I
don't know any CEO if that's complacent.
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Every CEO that I know they are
driving for a hundred percent growth next year
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and and to transform the world in
a market in a significant way. And
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those people are ripe for for for
having someone to really help them out.
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When you're coaching, what would you
say you trying to do exactly, I
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understand. You do the assessment,
then you then you start getting to work,
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because you see, you see opportunities, but what are you ultimately trying
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to get to with the athlete?
If you will write. So can I
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kind of back up and just talk
about there's almost almost two types of coaching
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that I do. It's all right, okay, sure. So, when
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I started out, I started coaching, I would do what I would call
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mostly situational coaching, meaning we're doing
assessment of kind of where we want to
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develop and where's the business and what
do we have to accomplish? But then
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it was almost on a weektweek basis. What's working and what's not working right
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either. Something that happened. They
didn't go the way that you'd particularly wanted
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to go. So we can kind
of tear it apart, take a look
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at us and say, you know
what, why did it go that way?
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How could it have gone differently and
how might we do it differently?
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Is a very good place to learn
kind of situationally, seeing the play,
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where you were positioned, how you
played it out and what would have been
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done differently, and that works.
Looking backwards, enurves past also works in
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terms of situationally. Looking forward,
I've got this major event or opportunity or
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problem in front of me and helping
think through it. And again, that's
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situational basis of all the things that
you know that you might do and how
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you might do it. But every
now and then, a any individual,
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is going to be constrained in terms
of how they see the world and how
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they see the facts in front of
them. And it's just the reality of
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all of us have come to come
to the world with our own histories,
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histories, biases, traumas, cultural
upbringings and and perspectives and all those things
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over time put filters on how we
see things, right, and those filters
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do to things. Sometimes they blind
us from facts, and so one of
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the most important things as a coach
you can do is make clear, make
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certain that you're seeing the facts clearly. Right. The other thing that that
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it does, even more so than
blind you from facts often times, is
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it has you build a story around
those very few facts. That is just
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a story, right, and so
you know, here's, here's the three
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facts and here's the seventeen other components
and throwing into it to create a story
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around it, which makes me think
that I we need to do a and
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if you can help tear that back
a little bit and help that person see.
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Well now the facts for really here. That story is valid and you
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know there's probably three or her other
valid stories on those same facts. That
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open up whole new possibilities and those
new possibilities allow you to to to do
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really amazing great things. So part
of the everyday workings is is helping them
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see things more clearly, identify opportunities
that they may not see otherwise in terms
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of proaches and then help them with
with how to go execute on that.
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So that's that's what I'll call transformational
coaching. There's there's situational coaching and then
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this is transformational. The transformation is
what, in your history is getting in
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your way of seeing things the way
you need to see them or opening up
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your mind to new opportunities. How
do we get past that? And then
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what new opportunities does that are?
Does it bring to the table, and
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then how do we go leverage and
executing those? So that's kind of this
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observational in terms of inconsistencies, there's
the really probing as a coach with very
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powerful questions that surface things and then
and then the other skill is pretty critical
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for a coach is being fully present
and listening very pro actively. HMM.
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So, if you if you relate
this to sort of coaching, coaching and
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athlete, there's for sport, there's
there's two coaching. It's focus on technique
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and you got to do a thousand
you got to practice a thousand free throws
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and yeah, Yeahs, you got
to focus a redpotation and being upstanding,
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a repetition to be an outstanding.
So, you know, bring it back
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to business, it's the CEO Habits
to structure the processes. That sort of
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the one on ones. The executive
meaning is the company meaning the the the
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quarterly plannings? Right, yes,
exactly one. See, your former was
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part of we call it the operating
Systema get him to master that being a
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good manager. But then there's two. Transformational coaching, which is really about
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the individual, the person who is
in the CEO S and getting them,
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preventing them from but it seems like
getting in their own way getting it,
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letting their head get on there,
on the way. And we've been and
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it's funny and when you do think
of like the very, very top athletes.
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Yeah, what normally gets in the
way is not the operational execution of
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the swing, it's what's in their
head. It's right, something throwing them
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off right. It's in their head
pulling them, pulling them back at it.
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You got it. Over overthinking something
we're thinking. It's not directly related,
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but it's very analogous. Yes,
HMM, and so that. So
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the CEO coach becomes the becomes the
other voice, not in your head but
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in front of you, that saying, Hey, you're overthinking this or yeah,
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or this is this, is you
getting in your own way again,
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and that realization can then help to
Ceeo should transform, if you will,
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and see opportunities differently. Absolutely,
it's not. Of Fact, I remember
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Coaching early in my coaching here.
I remember coaching people and I have these
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really brilliant CEOS. Know exactly what
they needed to do. HM, and
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they wouldn't do it, and then
they wouldn't do it and it so kind
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of Miss I'm missing something here.
What's going on? All right, right,
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right, yeah, and right.
Literally went back to school in my
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old adeer I went to I studied
with US Guy Names Julio Alalah, who
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was older Colorado, who was was
one of the very first people in the
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life coaching field, and lots of
touchy Feeley stuff, but it was pretty
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amazing in terms of augmenting augmenting what
I had in terms of skill setting and
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kind of having a few more tools
in the tool box. I see,
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because you were seeing a mismatch between
their ability and what they actually did.
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So that you said there was a
blocker there, there's there's something, there
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was some blocker that had nothing to
do with them knowing exactly what they needed
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to do exactly. Yep. So
interesting. Yeah, I wonder how many
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CEOS realize that? It's true,
right, that that self realization can be
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very challenging, where you know exactly
what to do but for some reason you're
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not doing it in a some kind
of the way. You know and you
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know the feeling. I know that. You've been there. You know the
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yeah, I know the feeling.
Right. I've been there so many times.
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It's taken me years to realize and
through the process of being coach,
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to realize what was going on.
Right now in your practice, do you
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do you get involved with the rest
of the of the executive team as well,
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because, let's say the studio knows
what to do, but then he's
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got a translator. He or she
has to then get the rest of the
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team to execute right and those individuals
may have their own challenges that are that
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are both situational and transformation. Right, right, right. So my primary
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focus is on the CEO. HMM, all right, and in if I'm
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jumping in because the CEO is not
capable of doing something, I'm not doing
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that him or her service right.
First, help them do it. But
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the areas that I do get involved
in is that we're talking about kind of
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kind of foundational components. If you're
early on, actual early on just a
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throat company's life cycle, defining the
long term mission and vision and understanding kind
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of the market dynamics and the core
strate the key strategy is going to enable
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you to get there and then driving
that into kind of the corporate goals.
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That process involves the entire team,
usually the high level mission vision from the
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CEO, but the rest of it
is involves the executive team. So I
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get involved usually by facilitating the annual, typically today, executive team off site
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that refuse kind of strategy and where
we're going and how we're going to get
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there and how do we drive those
into into very miserable things. We have
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to do this here so I can
involved with the team that way. Also
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by doing that also get to know
the individuals. So and when I talked
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to the CEO, I have a
different vantage point and understanding the team,
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the team dynamics, and occasionally there's
especially with earlier stage companies, are oftentimes
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co founders. One of the CO
founders tends to elevate to a CEO and
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then there's one or two others sometimes, and the founder dynamics are interesting.
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So many times I might coach the
CEO and a Co founder or the CEO
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and a couple of key executives on
the team that either needs some assistance or
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just kind of like make up the
real brain trust of the tighter leadership team.
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Are you currently making the transition from
founder to CEEO? Are you a
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00:25:03.430 --> 00:25:07.940
first time CEO in the middle of
a huge challenge, or you just curious
344
00:25:07.940 --> 00:25:11.859
about what it takes? Then you
need to read CEO Playbook. It's an
345
00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:17.059
online publication full of stories from real
CEOS and practical sage advice for leaders of
346
00:25:17.099 --> 00:25:21.529
high growth companies. Go to CEEO
PLAYBOOK DOT COM to start reading some amazing
347
00:25:21.690 --> 00:25:25.529
content for free. You'll find out
why over four hundred CEOS go here to
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00:25:25.569 --> 00:25:32.529
learn what it's really like being CEO. But the reason I ask the question
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is in my experience, each of
the management team members is kind of like
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a mini CEO of their functional air. Yes, and to some extent,
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maybe I should phrase this as a
question. Do you believe the CEO is
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also the the role of the CEO
is also to be a coach to the
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Management Team members? And, if
so, do you spend time teaching them
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how to be coaches or do you
find that unnecessary? Absolutely. Look,
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John, what do you think on
this one? Just curious. I think
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absolutely. I think that's one of
the skills, at least in my experiences
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CEO, is that over time,
what you're trying to become really good at
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is helping people develop mastery right in
their all roles. You're mastering yourself and
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your role being in the CEO,
see, but all those little minute mini
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CEOS out there also have to develop
mastery and and and serving as their coach
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and confidant is a very or powerful
position, very challenging to sort of,
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you know, differentiate between your executive
role, like Hey, I'm telling you
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to do this, to hey,
actually, I don't want to tell you
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to do anything. I just want
to ask you a few questions to help
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you think about this. That's what
I've been learning. Yeah, my sense
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is that managing, managing anyone,
whether it be at an executive level or
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even any any tear, is shifting
more and more to coaching. It's less
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less directive and more what are we
trying to achieve, and then not even
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and not being at all prescriptive in
terms of how to achieve it, but
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really helping them define the path to
achieve it and then helping them support them
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to make that happen. So I
think overall, the whole management function is
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shifting more and more towards incorporating coaching
concepts in their weekly one of once is
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that what's becoming known as servant leadership, and sure, concepts like that,
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I would imagine. Sure, don't
don't mistake being a servant leader as not
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being a strong leader. Also,
right, right, that's all. It's
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a strange thing. It's kind of
like, yeah, they'll let you hold
377
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onto it, the the the tight, you know, the tit of the
378
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grip you have on a sort of
right. Yeah, yeah, it's the
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best leaders or ones that are are
controlling, but are the energy and enthusiasm
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and support and caring of the team
right really pulls it together. It's great.
381
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Are All seas coachable? You said
You you do a man a match
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test first. Is that? Is
that about testing for coachability? That that's
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for me it's testing for coachability and
for them it's it's testing for alignment with
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you. And and the answers no, no, the see O sor right.
385
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Right. And what would you say? Would you say the the transformational
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aspect kind of, you know,
getting out of your own way? Is
387
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is a number one thing CEEO struggle
with in their and their journey to mastery?
388
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Or is there are there's? Is
there more? I think it's very
389
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it's it's so individualistic. Some things
that are so easy to some people are
390
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so hard with others. For instance, I have I've got this one CEO
391
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that I just I've been working with
him since the company's really small and and
392
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he is outstanding. I mean not
not, not good, he's outstanding,
393
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top one percent of one percent right. And yet again, clearly can't see
394
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who this is. But his history
and upbringing and relationships make it really,
395
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really hard for him to accept praise
and therefore to give praise. So imagine
396
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being one of the top CEOS and
having a hard time recognizing people for doing
397
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really good stuff. Right. So
now, by the way, he's outstanding
398
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and he has fixed that and he's
let's a learned behavior. That's uncomfortable for
399
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:33.599
him, right, yeah, but
it's a critical one and he's good enough
400
00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:37.079
to have perfected it, but as
a learned behavior and not a national one.
401
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.430
So it's hearts. So there's no
one thing. It's every person brings
402
00:29:41.509 --> 00:29:45.509
something different to the table that that
needs that they need help with. They
403
00:29:45.589 --> 00:29:48.990
need to Larady to your right,
to earlier point. Every everyone is wire
404
00:29:49.069 --> 00:29:52.380
differently. They have different backgrounds,
culture, etc. Right, and so
405
00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:56.779
therefore their opportunities, as you put
it, are going to be different.
406
00:29:56.259 --> 00:30:03.380
Right. What's the one thing that
surprises you about CEOS? They're both extremely
407
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confident and extremely insecure. It's just
a very interesting balance. Many times have
408
00:30:10.089 --> 00:30:12.289
you encountered imposter syndrome? A Lot, and yeah, that's pretty much.
409
00:30:12.329 --> 00:30:17.490
That's pretty much we're talking about here. Absolutely. Is it consistently present or
410
00:30:18.250 --> 00:30:22.920
just stages of development of a CEO? Like our first timers were imposter.
411
00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:26.920
Have more imposter syndrome or more experienced
people have weren't pose a syndrome. I
412
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:33.079
honestly I think it is. Every
step of growth. People I work with
413
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:37.589
are growing their companies typically a hundred
percent a year. Their individual contributors going
414
00:30:37.710 --> 00:30:41.950
to managers, their managers going to
kind of manager of managers they are to
415
00:30:41.109 --> 00:30:45.670
eventually lead to eventually sit at the
helm and kind of guide the ship,
416
00:30:45.349 --> 00:30:49.819
and every step of the way the
job is changing and every time the job
417
00:30:49.900 --> 00:30:56.380
changes in a big way it causes
one to ask questions about things. So
418
00:30:56.500 --> 00:31:00.660
again, I don't think it's overly
significant. I think it exists, but
419
00:31:00.700 --> 00:31:03.140
I do think it exists in pretty
much everyone. And how do you how
420
00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:07.009
do you help your CEOS work through
that? Again, I don't think it's
421
00:31:07.009 --> 00:31:10.529
overpowering in any way. I think
it's just literally, almost just having I
422
00:31:10.609 --> 00:31:11.930
don't even think you have to be
a great CEO coach. I think you
423
00:31:11.970 --> 00:31:18.799
can just be a really great trusted
listener and let them talk it out to
424
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:21.440
the point where they realize, you
know, I got this, because they
425
00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:26.440
do, they really do. Usually
you feel that way because you're you sometimes
426
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.519
get to the point of feeling overwhelmed
because I haven't done this before, I
427
00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:33.549
don't know the situation before. But
once you just sit back, relax a
428
00:31:33.589 --> 00:31:36.269
little bit, think through who logically, what you need to do, what
429
00:31:36.390 --> 00:31:38.549
the options are and which option makes
more sense and how to go exicona,
430
00:31:40.230 --> 00:31:44.230
you're ready to go again. Got
It. That's that's great. That's it
431
00:31:44.390 --> 00:31:47.500
is so true, though, that
it's something you have to work through and
432
00:31:47.700 --> 00:31:52.900
sometimes you have to be reminded of
your abilities by an External Party. Right
433
00:31:52.019 --> 00:31:56.779
as again, again, those voices
in your head. Sometimes just as simple
434
00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:59.700
as that. You know, you
just as simple as you got this one.
435
00:32:00.019 --> 00:32:01.490
Yeah, that's it, I do, I do. Yeah, you're
436
00:32:01.529 --> 00:32:06.970
right, I do, I got
it exactly. Sometimes as simple as that.
437
00:32:07.130 --> 00:32:09.849
Or they're dousing. Don't in coaching, right. So one of them
438
00:32:10.009 --> 00:32:15.369
is not to coach in a fashion
that basically as you has. You're all
439
00:32:15.450 --> 00:32:19.720
into business and yeah, affecting effectively, do in the CEO's job. Or
440
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:23.200
there's some others dos and don't you
know, it's like a doctor relationship and
441
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:29.440
for if you to try, nothing
ever goes anywhere else. Nothing ever.
442
00:32:30.630 --> 00:32:34.549
You have to I mean there's their
boundaries on a personal level, but not,
443
00:32:35.829 --> 00:32:37.230
you know, to be a perfectly
frank, I mean it's just you're
444
00:32:37.269 --> 00:32:43.390
building this trust your relationship. You're
there fully to support them in any which
445
00:32:43.390 --> 00:32:45.660
way they need it and, by
the way, and that oftentimes there's both
446
00:32:46.099 --> 00:32:51.619
on a business level and a personal
level. These are whole people. Sometimes
447
00:32:51.740 --> 00:32:54.980
the personal side is more impactful on
the business than the business side. So
448
00:32:55.259 --> 00:33:00.490
I guess so, if this very
little, it's off the table outside of
449
00:33:00.930 --> 00:33:07.490
maintaining confidentiality and and make sure that
that that boundaries that should be there don't
450
00:33:07.529 --> 00:33:13.160
get crossed. And if you were
to, this is kind of a part
451
00:33:13.240 --> 00:33:15.000
of the conversation where it kind of
give you, give you the stage,
452
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:20.039
if you will, if there was
something you wanted to tell those CEOS out
453
00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:22.680
there who, number one, did
realize what a coach is and whether they
454
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.680
need one or not. But maybe
you're just getting in the role or they're
455
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:30.589
sitting in their seat right now listening
to this. What are some things you'd
456
00:33:30.630 --> 00:33:36.150
want to say to them? One
is everyone looks to you, especially if
457
00:33:36.190 --> 00:33:38.309
you worked away up the ranks and
this is a relatively new role for you.
458
00:33:39.190 --> 00:33:42.740
Other people scream and yell and try
to get a point across. You
459
00:33:42.940 --> 00:33:47.819
whisper a subtle idea on the side
and it becomes directive. Oh Man.
460
00:33:51.380 --> 00:33:54.380
So that's agree and that's in terms
of that's in terms of focus on the
461
00:33:54.460 --> 00:33:59.930
business, that's in terms of cultural
impact. You want us, you say.
462
00:33:59.970 --> 00:34:00.730
Well, I just want to be
myself and say whatever I want to
463
00:34:00.730 --> 00:34:02.609
say. And the answers. Yes, be yourself, say what you want
464
00:34:02.609 --> 00:34:07.170
to say, but be aware that
what you say and how you say it
465
00:34:07.890 --> 00:34:10.840
is going to have a ripple implications
everywhere. And that's not a problem.
466
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:16.440
That's an opportunity. It's an opportunity
to really lead and really excite and motivate
467
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:21.719
folks. The other thing is,
I'd say, is you and your company
468
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:25.469
as good as the team around you, build an unbelievable team. Makes sure
469
00:34:25.590 --> 00:34:30.230
that team dynamic works. And team
dynamic works is not you're just old buddies,
470
00:34:30.829 --> 00:34:34.550
it's you've got the right amount of
diversity, the right amount of comfort
471
00:34:34.590 --> 00:34:37.469
challenging one another, the right there, but always with a deep respect.
472
00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:43.059
So kind of cultural developments, building
the right team. I'd say that,
473
00:34:43.659 --> 00:34:47.980
if you don't have it, be
crystal clear about your vision and your mission
474
00:34:49.059 --> 00:34:52.250
for the business and how you're going
to get there, such that people can
475
00:34:52.530 --> 00:34:58.809
act relatively autonomously and still run fast
towards the goal you're trying to get to
476
00:34:58.889 --> 00:35:02.690
those, the kind of the big
ones. Maybe that's great. Those three
477
00:35:04.289 --> 00:35:08.360
we're fantastic. I would say take
time away from the business. It's really
478
00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:15.880
important to not stay in the business
for too long without stepping out of it
479
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:20.519
and going to a place where it's
quiet and just be along with your thoughts,
480
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:22.429
or go to a place like we
were talking about our form, where
481
00:35:22.429 --> 00:35:28.389
there're other CEOS that you can you
can really sort of learn from, because
482
00:35:28.429 --> 00:35:32.190
when you come back your perspective is
so different and that first perspective is so
483
00:35:32.349 --> 00:35:37.739
important to doing well in the role. I think that that's one to consider
484
00:35:37.820 --> 00:35:40.739
for sure. Absolutely. Yeah,
and then, you know, I would
485
00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:46.099
say get a coach as soon as
you can, because then you have someone
486
00:35:46.260 --> 00:35:52.769
that can tell you the things that
no one tells you about the role and
487
00:35:52.929 --> 00:35:57.329
helps you through those transitions that are
availably going to happen to you in the
488
00:35:57.369 --> 00:36:00.210
role. And when thinking about a
coach, that again, lots of people
489
00:36:00.250 --> 00:36:05.360
are for a lot of trends coaches
out there. I guess they're probably opposite
490
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:09.360
as well. Find some of that
works for you and realize that there are
491
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:14.719
two primary dimensions. One is someone
who can help, who's kind of seen
492
00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:19.829
what you're going through and can help
you kind of identify things before you brick
493
00:36:19.869 --> 00:36:22.829
walls, before you hit them.
So having some level of competence in terms
494
00:36:22.829 --> 00:36:27.150
of knowing what the job entails would
be good. And then the other elements
495
00:36:27.309 --> 00:36:30.230
have someone who really you can connect
with, empathetic and understanding, because it's,
496
00:36:31.030 --> 00:36:34.739
as I said, it's lonely and
you need someone to really that you
497
00:36:34.820 --> 00:36:37.500
can really open up to. So
we both read trillion dolla coach. I
498
00:36:37.619 --> 00:36:42.460
asked dry. Enjoyed the book.
A lot of the questions I asked.
499
00:36:42.500 --> 00:36:47.130
You were around sort of asking about
your style and, to some extent,
500
00:36:47.570 --> 00:36:52.489
comparing it to to Bill Campbell.
You know. So for those of you
501
00:36:52.570 --> 00:36:57.849
who are listening, Bill Campbell is
probably one of the, you know,
502
00:36:58.449 --> 00:37:01.039
best coaches that has been around.
You've never heard of no one's. I've
503
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:06.079
heard of Bill Campbell. Funny thing
he would he started out as a proper
504
00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:10.119
sports coach, coaching in college,
started his career at a Kodak and then
505
00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:15.360
moved out to Silicon Valley, started
working for apple, moved on to go
506
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:19.829
computer, which didn't go if you
read the book you'll you'll get that,
507
00:37:20.349 --> 00:37:24.710
and then eventually became the Ceeo of
into it right and then from there started
508
00:37:24.789 --> 00:37:30.260
coaching. So sort of a similar
it's a similar traject trajectory to you.
509
00:37:30.500 --> 00:37:34.059
Where you start as a business person. You know, went to some great
510
00:37:34.059 --> 00:37:38.139
organizations, just experience a lot and
grew a lot and took that wealth of
511
00:37:38.219 --> 00:37:45.769
experience and gave back right and started
really coaching with some fantastic CEOS. He
512
00:37:45.849 --> 00:37:49.769
has coached Eric Schmidt, he's coached, you know, to the fountains at
513
00:37:49.769 --> 00:37:52.530
Google. He spoke, he's coach
been her wood's, he's coached, I
514
00:37:52.610 --> 00:37:58.760
think, a ton of people that
you can't even imagine. And so the
515
00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:02.360
book was really for me just experiencing
a couple of things, just what a
516
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:08.599
coach is like and some of the
challenges that he experienced coaching and helping managers
517
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:13.550
through those challenges. He starts with
people. I mean it's all about caring
518
00:38:13.630 --> 00:38:17.750
deeply, but individuals and people and
making and making Servius and their successful and
519
00:38:17.949 --> 00:38:23.230
that they're they're wellbeing a solid he
talks about only coaching the coachable. You
520
00:38:23.309 --> 00:38:28.780
know, people have very selfaware or
why bother? Why Great? So truely
521
00:38:28.900 --> 00:38:32.380
talks about, I love this one, guiding people to make the best decision
522
00:38:34.019 --> 00:38:38.460
for them not the best decision because
everyone is everyone different and the decision is
523
00:38:38.579 --> 00:38:42.570
not there's no such things the best
decision. It's like where you are in
524
00:38:42.650 --> 00:38:45.289
your life, what you're doing and
what your situation isn't getting that he want
525
00:38:45.329 --> 00:38:49.130
not to talk about. If you
don't have the basics right, forget it.
526
00:38:49.489 --> 00:38:52.409
So that's the operational cadence, the
one on one, the the employee
527
00:38:52.650 --> 00:38:57.119
back the team, you know,
team meetings, company meetings, lots stuff.
528
00:38:57.559 --> 00:38:59.960
Yeah, I love that part of
the book because he he refers to
529
00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:04.880
Steve Jobs, who didn't who didn't
like there was considered one of the best
530
00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:09.070
leaders ever and Steve had to go
through pain right to learn the importance of
531
00:39:09.750 --> 00:39:14.070
yeah, the importance of the basics
right, and then he came back into
532
00:39:14.110 --> 00:39:19.269
resort organization with that foundation right heaven, having worked with bill, and it
533
00:39:19.349 --> 00:39:22.869
completely changed the way he approached and
probably set the foundation for for Apple Success
534
00:39:23.659 --> 00:39:29.340
on his return. Absolutely. Yeah, another thing I liked about touch a
535
00:39:29.380 --> 00:39:36.860
lot about vulnerability and the importance of
being vulnerable as a CEO. The foundational
536
00:39:36.940 --> 00:39:42.610
component of a great team is starts
with trust. One of the ways to
537
00:39:42.849 --> 00:39:47.769
really make trust happen is is to
create vulnerability, but because when you breakdown,
538
00:39:47.769 --> 00:39:52.690
you work down your walls and you
become vulnerable, others naturally will break
539
00:39:52.690 --> 00:39:55.199
down their walls and then all of
a sudden you have you open dialog and
540
00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:59.840
communication, a real communication between people. So I think it's that's a great
541
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:02.360
observation, John. Yeah, that's
that's one of my that's one of the
542
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:07.079
ones I take away again, another
quote. It's from it's from a football
543
00:40:07.150 --> 00:40:09.510
coach. Okay, this is a
this is probably Andry, who who was
544
00:40:09.550 --> 00:40:13.909
the coach of the Dallas cowboys in
the S and S, I think,
545
00:40:13.909 --> 00:40:17.550
over twenty nine years. And it's
a coach is someone who tells you what
546
00:40:17.710 --> 00:40:22.659
you don't want to hear, who
has you see what you don't want to
547
00:40:22.739 --> 00:40:27.739
see so you can be who you've
always known you could be. And it's
548
00:40:27.860 --> 00:40:31.260
wow, surfacing, streat surface the
stuff that is going to help you get
549
00:40:31.340 --> 00:40:36.570
better and sing in substantial ways.
I love it. This has been great.
550
00:40:36.809 --> 00:40:40.329
How do people find you if people
wanted to consider you for coaching?
551
00:40:40.730 --> 00:40:44.449
A hundred percent of my class have
all been through word of mouth from other
552
00:40:44.530 --> 00:40:47.730
clients or or board members who have
not that I've talked to, but have
553
00:40:47.849 --> 00:40:53.239
seen me work with other CEOS.
I mean it's Cramer Advisorycom online. It's
554
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:57.079
not a big way to website.
It's just there to answer some questions.
555
00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:00.519
I Love I didn't. I even
says my passion isn't the founder CEOS.
556
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:06.710
So I love I love CEOS,
but also really love taking founders and letting
557
00:41:06.710 --> 00:41:08.869
them go the distance all the way. So anything to do so that's particular
558
00:41:09.550 --> 00:41:14.070
interests me. That's great. That's
a great place to wrap up. Thank
559
00:41:14.070 --> 00:41:20.820
you so much for joining us.
This has been fantastic and every weekend excellent.
560
00:41:20.940 --> 00:41:24.980
My pleasure. John, great talking
to US always. Thanks for listening
561
00:41:24.980 --> 00:41:30.059
to this episode of be to be
growth CEEO series. Again, I'm John
562
00:41:30.099 --> 00:41:32.929
Belaz are from the CEO playbook.
To reach Bob Kramer and learn more about
563
00:41:32.929 --> 00:41:38.250
his coaching, visit Cramer Advisorycom.
That's Cramer with the sea. To Learn
564
00:41:38.289 --> 00:41:43.769
more about CEO coaching, go to
CEEO PLAYBOOKCCO. Please connect with me on
565
00:41:43.929 --> 00:41:47.880
Linkedin, CEO Playbook and twitter.
Jay Belaz are, CEO. I'd love
566
00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:52.559
to hear from you. Send questions
my way or recommendations at any time.
567
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:54.840
If you like this episode, please
leave a review and share it with the
568
00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:59.880
friend. It really helps and if
you have a question, join the discussion
569
00:41:59.960 --> 00:42:04.949
on Instagram at CEO Playbookco. Thank
you for tuning in and subscribing to be
570
00:42:05.070 --> 00:42:08.190
to be growth. Until next time, keep pushing and stay healthy out there.
571
00:42:12.550 --> 00:42:15.780
I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask
their listeners for reviews, but I
572
00:42:15.860 --> 00:42:20.539
get why they do it, because
reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to
573
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grow a podcast audience. So here's
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leave a review for be to be
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575
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screenshot of the review to James at
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signed copy of my new book,
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with anyone you want to know.
We get a review, you get a
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free book. We both win.