Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:17.480 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth. Today 2 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:23.039 I am here with Bob Uday. He has just authored a new book titled 3 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:26.719 Competing on Thought Leadership. I picked it up, I gave it a read, 4 00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:30.960 I thought and this is a conversation worth having. And so, Bob, 5 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:34.799 I'm excited to chat with you today on be tob growth. Welcome, 6 00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:38.880 thank you. I'm excited to chat about what I know about this topic of 7 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:43.719 thought leadership. Yes, competing on thought leadership. So, before we jump 8 00:00:43.799 --> 00:00:47.280 to the book, let's go. What have you been up to in the 9 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:51.079 world? What's your career been about? Tell us a little bit about yourself 10 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:56.399 and what sparked this this interests for writing on this topic. Sure, what 11 00:00:56.600 --> 00:01:00.840 I have been doing thought leadership for thirty five years, which bans I've been 12 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:06.879 doing it long before the term was concocted. Yeah, so really by Joel 13 00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:12.680 Kursman back in the s when he was at Booze Allen. So what we 14 00:01:12.680 --> 00:01:15.879 were doing thirty five years ago we didn't really have a common term for it. 15 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:21.040 We were just I was working at a consulting firm. That said, 16 00:01:21.079 --> 00:01:26.680 the way we generate business is by writing publications and giving conference speeches and running 17 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:30.519 our own conferences and, you know, try to get the expertisets in the 18 00:01:30.519 --> 00:01:34.480 head heads of our consultants, package it, so to say, and get 19 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:40.799 it out there and a non sales the nonpromotional way. You know, it's 20 00:01:40.840 --> 00:01:44.879 like we need to educate. This is how we will educate our target audience 21 00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:48.799 and those who are in drinking enough and think we have something to say, 22 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:51.519 they'll raise their hand, they'll call us and we'll say, Hey, I 23 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:53.280 loved your speech or I loved your article. Want to talk to you more 24 00:01:53.319 --> 00:02:00.519 about it. Yeah, you define thought leadership as the a claim that a 25 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:07.000 firm or a person earns for developing, marketing and delivering superior expertise, which 26 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:09.479 is exactly what you just said. So even before the term was defined, 27 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:13.639 that's essentially what you're doing. You're educating the market. You're doing that by 28 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:19.400 developing marketing and delivering superior expertise and, when you say in solving complex customer 29 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:22.479 problems. And then, more broadly, and I think this is really important, 30 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:27.000 you see this as a business strategy, not just a marketing strategy. 31 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:30.199 So break that down a bit. How is this a business strategy and not 32 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:36.319 just simply a function of marketing. So most people think of thought leadership as 33 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:40.599 a marketing strategy. Right. That's thought leadership. Marketing is, I think, 34 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:46.680 what most people think about. My careers has been working with firms that 35 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:51.280 are in the business of delivering expertise. They sell their expertise. These firms 36 00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:55.680 are management consulting firms, law firms, architecture firms, it services firms, 37 00:02:55.759 --> 00:03:00.159 training and development companies. There in the business of telling their expertise. You're 38 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:05.680 hiring them because you want to solve a certain problem in your company. So 39 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:09.639 they're in the business, or they should be in the business, of creating 40 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:15.360 new expertise, because expertise, especially in the last decade or so, gets 41 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:21.599 obsolete faster. There in the business of developing expertise, improving the expertise they 42 00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:25.000 have, of course, delivering it to market, more training and developing their 43 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:30.919 people to operate at the performance of the best people in their firm. And 44 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:36.360 of course they're in the business of creating demand for their expertise, and that 45 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:42.719 means marketing, selling and doing research when they need to take a step back 46 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:46.719 and say we need to upgrade our expertise on solving this business problem or we're 47 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:50.479 going to solve a new business problem and we don't know much about it. 48 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:53.919 So we're going to conduct some primary research to understand what the best companies are 49 00:03:53.960 --> 00:04:00.840 doing and solving this problem and how the way they're solving it differ from the 50 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:04.159 rest, or the worst companies especially. So there's a lot when it comes 51 00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:10.199 to demand specifically for thought leadership, that I have thoughts on. And but 52 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:15.000 I think we know there's mounting complexity, specifically and for this audience. You're 53 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:18.360 talking to a be to be marketing audience and they're going yeah, continued mounting 54 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:25.560 complexity. How do we continue to kind of all of this complexity has caused 55 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:30.720 this demand for specialized expertise, for thought leadership, but also there's a ton 56 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:33.759 of content out there. So so how do you think of that? There's 57 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:40.959 a growing need for this demand in specialized expertise, but there's also a ton 58 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:44.519 of content, right, that's right. And so the good news is there's 59 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:49.720 growing demand for four people and firms who are deep experts in their domains, 60 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:54.920 growing need. So you know, fifteen years ago we didn't need social media 61 00:04:54.959 --> 00:05:00.160 experts in companies, right, because what fest facebook started two thousand and two 62 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:03.519 two thousand and three Linkedin, I think, around the same time, twitter 63 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:09.759 as well. So maybe it's twenty years we didn't need experts in social media 64 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:13.680 because social media was really not a widespread thing. Now we do, and 65 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:16.720 now we have all sorts of people who deponom cells as experts in social media 66 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:26.360 mark so the good news is the the complexity in doing business, especially created 67 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:31.120 by digital technology, means that companies need experts to help them deal with the 68 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:35.000 complexities. So that's the good news. The bad news is it is so 69 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:40.120 easy to find any amount of people who have an opinion or more on any 70 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:45.199 topic, pseudo experts, right. So Google and let's just do that. 71 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:47.839 So, and I haven't done this recently, but if you typed in social 72 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:55.600 media marketing experts and imagine you'd have dozens of search results from Google and and 73 00:05:55.759 --> 00:06:00.439 some good content from some of those search results. So back when I started 74 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:02.399 in thought leadership in one thousand nine hundred and eighty seven, there was no 75 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:08.120 google, there was no web. The way we got our expertise out was 76 00:06:08.120 --> 00:06:14.079 through printing publications mail, putting them the mail, giving speeches at conferences. 77 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:17.800 That was a high barrier to entry. You had to pay for publishing, 78 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:20.279 mailing, you had to, you know, have people go out and give 79 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:25.959 speeches. That cost money. So getting your expertise out there was a lot 80 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:30.439 more difficult it is easy today. You write a white paper, you put 81 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:35.480 it on your website and you you know, you do some social media marketing 82 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:39.480 and all of a sudden you have dozens of people reading it. So that 83 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:44.720 makes for a crowded marketplace and just about any domain, any be tob domain, 84 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:48.319 it's crowded marketplace and that in turn raises the Bar, in my mind, 85 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:54.800 of quality. So when we're competing against dozens or hundreds of other people 86 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:58.759 who are trying to show off their expertise, that's a much different game than 87 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:04.800 competing against five or three yep that professed to have deep expertise on some topic. 88 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:10.199 Yeah, you figure out over time as well that how you're going to 89 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:14.959 differentiate. It can be on the depth of which you go, and we'll 90 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.639 talk about some of the different sort of categories we need to be hitting on 91 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:23.199 when we think of thought leadership and also think we're watching right now. This 92 00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:26.399 happened in BBC and I'm it's happening more in B tob as well, where 93 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:30.879 people are differentiating based on tone of voice, on personality of who the thought 94 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:35.160 leader is as a individual for the company, like as a spokesperson. So 95 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:40.680 you're seeing people get more and more unique in how they present themselves as thought 96 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:45.399 leaders, because we realize the more crowded this gets, some of this content 97 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:50.000 is getting commoditized. But there's still ways to differentiate and to be a deep 98 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:55.759 thought expert in your field, and I that's what's interesting. More voices, 99 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:00.800 but still so much space for thought leadership. Right. That's right. And 100 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:07.519 the ultimate differentiator is evidence behind the prescriptions that you're voicing in the market place. 101 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:13.240 There's a great example, current example, the metaverse. Is Anybody proved 102 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:18.480 to anybody that companies are making a ton of money off metaverse? If they 103 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:22.759 have, I haven't read about it. I am a't right, but a 104 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:26.439 lot of companies are spelling a lot of spilling, a lot of digital link 105 00:08:26.439 --> 00:08:31.319 talking about the metaverse. Microsoft, Goldman, Sachs, all, you name 106 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:35.279 it, everybody, Mark Zuckerberg. It's like a land rush. Okay, 107 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:39.440 the metaverse, you gotta be you got to be in there. You know, 108 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:43.840 companies got to be in there, got to play. They fought leader 109 00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:48.480 or thought leaders on the metaverse, I predict will be the people and organizations 110 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:56.279 that bring forth proof that companies that are doing metaverse like things are getting significant 111 00:08:56.320 --> 00:09:01.639 business benefit from doing so. When we start to see those case examples and 112 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:05.440 what those companies did to get those kind of benefits, that I think people 113 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:09.399 like me will listen to them and say, Oh, this really isn't hype, 114 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:13.720 this metaverse. You know, it's it's not something a fad that's going 115 00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:20.279 to go away in two years. There really is something there. But until 116 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:24.440 you know, until there's evidence behind the assertions that we all want to make 117 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:28.799 they have this, that what I'm telling you you should do really works. 118 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:33.000 It's just theory. It's you know, no matter how well it's put, 119 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.879 it's still theory. I think of it as right now, in this season 120 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:43.919 for a platform like a metaverse, you can have reporters who then can become 121 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.039 trusted voices because they're going, oh, this is what's going on in the 122 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:50.159 space. You're reporting on what's happening. You can't report on the facts in 123 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:54.519 a thought leadership, evidence based way yet because there hasn't been enough runway, 124 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:58.879 there hasn't been enough time to collect all the data. But if you can 125 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:01.799 distinguish your voice. Let's say you wanted to be an expert on the metaverse. 126 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:07.600 Become a reporter. Don't say the don't think you're a thought leader yet, 127 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:11.440 because it's impossible to be one. Let's just report on what we're seeing 128 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:16.679 take place and then, Bill, you'll see that you had that interest from 129 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:20.360 the beginning. Five years from now, when you're looking back, you are 130 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:24.279 a trusted voice that built that can then talk on evidence. So that's where 131 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.240 I think the space is with the new platforms. But you're totally right. 132 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:33.120 There's a lot of people that talk like a thought leader but don't have thought 133 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:37.159 leader evidence, and that's why they lack authority. So okay, let's talk 134 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:43.919 about that. What are the four elements you believe to a thought leadership strategy? 135 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:50.679 So successful thought leadership requires first having a strategy and that and that really 136 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:56.080 comes down to a company saying what customer problems in the world do we need 137 00:10:56.200 --> 00:11:00.519 to own, and what problems do we not need to own, even though 138 00:11:00.519 --> 00:11:03.879 they're related, and we could see us wandering into solving these customer problems. 139 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:07.879 What customer problems in the world do we want to own? So a great 140 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:13.440 example of this is a firm called integrated project management. They've been around since 141 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:18.720 the s. There are, you can tell by the name, a project 142 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:22.360 management consulting firm. They work with a lot of the large pharmaceutical companies, 143 00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:30.240 especially those that have vaccines, for covid in helping their people manage these very 144 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:35.440 complex clinical trials and other aspects of the drug development process. So IPM in 145 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:41.120 a great project management the client problem they solve is when you have a big, 146 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:46.840 very complex project with a lot of moving pieces and you can't have, 147 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:50.759 you know, many or any pieces kind of drop. You need industrial strength 148 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:56.799 project management expertise. Where the one. So IPM. That's the customer problem 149 00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:05.519 that they've owned for thirty years and that's at right. So you can build 150 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:09.600 a very large and lucrative firm based on that. In the book I talked 151 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:13.840 about a firm called urban science and if you remember that passage, it's a 152 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:18.320 firm in Detroit that I think they're roughly thirty years old. The problem that 153 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:24.679 they have owned since day one is helping auto manufacturers make the monumental decision of 154 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:31.799 where do we locate our car dealers? All right, by studying traffic patterns, 155 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:35.360 population, Democrat and other demographic the like. Where do we put the 156 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:39.960 dealer? Because that's a consequential decision. You put a dealer on a wrong 157 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:46.879 straight and competing dealerships open in much more accessible locations or where there they're more 158 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:50.919 the target customer and that hurts the dealership and that, of course, hurts 159 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:56.919 the auto manufacture. So now they branched out from owning that customer problem to 160 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:05.240 owning some more problems of autom manufactures the dealerships. But still that's what that's 161 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:09.320 the customer problem that they focused on and have stayed rooted on, and the 162 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:13.519 last time I checked they had a thousand people working in this firm, privately 163 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:20.639 held firm focused on largely one customer problem. How do we make the dealers 164 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:24.200 make more money? One customer problem. You go on to say that. 165 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:30.759 Then the second would be how the company will develop exceptional content about solving those 166 00:13:30.759 --> 00:13:35.919 core client problems. So you know, a lot of people know the problem 167 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:39.279 that they solved, but many don't go to that second step of saying we're 168 00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:45.519 going to create exceptional content. That's right and they often feel that. Well, 169 00:13:45.559 --> 00:13:48.879 the the experience we've had in the field, whether it's a law firm, 170 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:52.200 you know our lawyers now to how to defend against class action lawsuits. 171 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:56.840 You know, we or are consultants. They know how to help clients design 172 00:13:56.919 --> 00:14:03.799 efficient supply chains. The reason for primary research is to help avoid the scenario 173 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:07.279 of you know what, our expertise is outdated. There's a new consulting firm, 174 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:13.080 new law firm, new accounting firm, new what other firm that is 175 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.879 is aimed at the same customer problem that we thought we owned, that we 176 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:22.080 were the the by far the best, but this other firm has solved it 177 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:26.200 better. You know, they brought new thinking to this problem. So this 178 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:31.519 is the reason for primary research, in thought leadership, in studying best practice 179 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:37.519 companies against the rest, especially the worst practice, and understanding why do the 180 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:41.759 best companies solve this problem better than the worst? And this is the kind 181 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:46.159 of research that I saw work many years ago, back in the late s 182 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:52.440 and s that led to the biggest consulting service of the S, which was 183 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:56.679 business engineering. It was that kind of research, studying how the best companies 184 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:01.080 were managing information technology. What did they do differently than the companies that got 185 00:15:01.120 --> 00:15:07.720 little or no payback from information technology? It was that primary research that enabled 186 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:11.919 the firm I work for, to say the best companies. Here's the way 187 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:16.120 the best companies do it. They rethink business processes across the silos. He's 188 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:22.440 information technology to share information across across silos that hadn't been shared before, which 189 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:28.720 reduces time to market, improves quality, improves effective that thought leadership, that 190 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:35.799 concept was built on the back of primary research and that's the reason that firm 191 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:39.559 set the world on fire back in the early and mid s with that concept. 192 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:46.519 It did the primary research that led to the big idea and one of 193 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:50.039 the many things that Michael Hammer, who was really in the forefront of working 194 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:54.559 with the firm I worked at. He was the father of re engineering. 195 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:58.559 This is reengineering. Mike was once to asked by a reporter. He said 196 00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:02.840 so, Mike, how did YOU INVENT RE engineering? And Mike said I 197 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:10.120 didn't invent reengineering, I discovered it. HMM, those words meant a lot. 198 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:11.879 People Thought, Oh, Mikey, you know he was in a shower 199 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:14.879 one day and he said, oh well, you know, this is what 200 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:18.320 I only need to do now. That's not what happened. Yeah, there 201 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:23.480 were the research and I was at an occasional researcher and when they when they 202 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:30.759 needed somebody to help interview companies. That research was Bayed on. I think 203 00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:36.399 it was sixty or seventy companies that opened up their doors and talked about how 204 00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:41.679 they were using information technology in the late s and and from Mike Rea Hammer 205 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:45.320 and the research team stepping back from these interviews and saying, all right, 206 00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:48.519 so the companies that were getting the biggest payback from it, what did they 207 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:52.679 do differently? You know what's going on here, folks. So Mike would 208 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.960 say I invented really, I didn't invent re engineering. I discovered it, 209 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:03.600 and meaning I discovered it by having my research team do these interviews with companies 210 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:07.200 that told us a whole bunch of things that nobody else would put together. 211 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.319 The other large consulting firms at the time, Mackenzie, Boston consulting group, 212 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:15.559 Bain, nobody, certainly the software vendors, had done this kind of customer 213 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:26.880 research and that led to the biggest consulting service segment of the s. It 214 00:17:26.920 --> 00:17:32.119 was an almost five billion dollar a year segment by ninety five, according to 215 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:41.799 Gartner. So that when thought leadership research pays off handsomely. Hey B to 216 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:44.839 be gross listeners. We want to hear from you. In fact, we 217 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:48.720 will pay you for it. Just head over to BDB growth podcom and complete 218 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:52.720 a short survey about the show to enter for a chance to win two hundred 219 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:57.039 and fifty dollars. Plus. The first fifty participants will receive twenty five dollars 220 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:00.640 as our way of saying thank you so much one more time. That's BTB, 221 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:10.200 growth podcom, letter B. Number two, letter be growth podcom. 222 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:14.200 One entry per person. must be an active listener of the show to enter 223 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:23.440 and look forward to hearing from you. That led to the biggest consulting service 224 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:29.319 segment of the s. It was an almost five billion dollar a year segment 225 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:34.759 by ninety five according to Gartner. So that, when thought, leadership, 226 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:41.480 research pays off handsomely. Yeah, so we have these four elements. We 227 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:45.359 talked about the core problem. Then you have how the company will develop the 228 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:48.039 content. You go to three and four, being how to create demand for 229 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:52.759 the expertise you can provide and then how to ramp up services. That solve 230 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:56.000 those problems. Really, what I want to do, because we have limited 231 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:57.599 time, is focus on those middle two and we've done a bit of that 232 00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:03.279 here around developing exceptional content but we'll talk about creating demand for the expertise in 233 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.000 a minute. So if we're, as marketers were, on a mission to 234 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.440 create that excellent content, I would say, and I've felt this as a 235 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:17.400 marketer, it can feel vague, it can feel kind of undefined and when 236 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:22.559 it pertains to developing thought leadership, there has to be some sort of filter 237 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:26.559 that we run things through. So you've put this bit in a list form 238 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:29.920 and we'll go into it in some detail, but tell me a bit about 239 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:36.160 a filter that you use to define great content. So the filter, you 240 00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:41.680 know, the nine criteria or nine hallmarks of great thought leading content, begins 241 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.000 with novelty. Are we saying something new here about how to solve the problem? 242 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:48.920 For Not saying something new, why should the audience pay attention? They 243 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:52.319 can go get it somewhere else. Depth, you know, how much of 244 00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:56.240 these folks showing us about their understanding of the problem and a better way to 245 00:19:56.279 --> 00:20:02.279 solve it? Evidence, the most important of these nine criteria. Do they 246 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:07.039 have proof that the solution actually works and that that is produced sizeable results for 247 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:11.960 companies? Without evidence, you have theory, that's all you have. Relevance, 248 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:15.599 you know, is this an here and now problem? Or is this 249 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:19.319 a problem that they say we're going to run into in five years but nonetheless 250 00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:22.480 we must do something about it? Today it's a much harder thing to make 251 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:26.960 a to to generate demand from thought leadership, from to say Yeah, you 252 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:30.440 folks may not believe this, but in five years you know this is going 253 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:37.880 to happen. Nobody's thinking that Farhad and Rigger, you know, I look 254 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:42.640 at thought leadership as a narrative argument. You know a problem in the world, 255 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:47.480 why existing solutions fall short in solving it, a better a new and 256 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:52.960 better solution that actually works better, obstacles to adopting that new solution and how 257 00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:57.279 to overcome them, and then why companies should move now. So so that's 258 00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:03.400 an argument to make. Okay, so the rigger, this notion of rigor, 259 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:07.359 comes into play. Of Have you made a persuasive argument? Are there 260 00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:12.880 pieces of the argument that you have forgotten because you know the argument so well? 261 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:18.079 This is going back to a book called the curse of Knowledge, Hm 262 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:22.920 that knowledge made to stick, in which the concept was the curse of knowledge. 263 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:26.839 Smart people who master a topic know so much about it that when they 264 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:30.240 try to explain it to people, they say let's say there's ten logic points. 265 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:34.640 They say point a, point B, they skip point C and d 266 00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:38.000 because they think everybody knows that. Well, not. Not Everybody knows that, 267 00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:42.519 and so they you get lost in the argument. So so rigger of 268 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:48.039 argument? Is this a persuasive argument, and part of that is evidence, 269 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:52.519 but have they unfolded this argument in a way for the reader or viewer to 270 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.240 get it, to grasp it? Hey, that's rigger. Clarity is a 271 00:21:56.240 --> 00:22:02.319 little different than rigor. Clarity is are you writing or speaking in terminology that 272 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:07.359 your target audience understands? So I've read that educational level of the Wall Street 273 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:14.559 Journal reader is like eleventh grade. They write eleventh grade readership level. They're 274 00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:18.680 not writing to a PhD level, right. And so the most effective thought 275 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:26.519 leaders are those who say things very plainly, speak very clearly and don't spell 276 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:34.200 out acronym after acronym and hi, a concept after high big concept. So 277 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:38.880 that's clarity and and there's some other criteria, but those, those are the, 278 00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:45.880 you know, the most important ones, and a good way to after 279 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:48.960 you've written an article or a presentation, a good thing to do is to 280 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:52.599 stand back and say, okay, does it make these criteria. Where is 281 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.599 it strong? Where could it be improved? How could I improve it? 282 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.359 Evidence? All I have is one case example. People believe what I'm trying 283 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.480 to tell them with one case example. Okay, I better get a couple 284 00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:07.119 more. All Right, get a couple more. What about the results? 285 00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:11.519 You know the improvements in those case examples? Are They big enough? Are 286 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:15.160 there? Are there any results? Improvements supported? Right, Yeh. So 287 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:19.680 it's a way kind of say, how do I know this ship, rocket 288 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:23.559 ship, is going to actually get off the launch pad? Their ways to 289 00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:27.279 do that. It helps you get a baseline and then it helps with iteration 290 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:32.079 because you run it back through the filter. Right. It's a purification system 291 00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:34.799 over time that then you create momentum off of, and that's why I like 292 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:40.559 thinking through it. I think a lot of us are creating content and when 293 00:23:40.599 --> 00:23:44.519 you remove a piece of this, I'll go back to that same phrase because 294 00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:48.240 we say it a lot around here and around sweet fish, but commodity content 295 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:52.960 happens often when you're missing some of this stuff, like you might have just 296 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:56.960 evidence but you haven't presented a point of view. So now you're lacking in 297 00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:03.240 a different area, and especially as we see a rise in the Betab space 298 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:06.480 of a need, in a want and a desire for data. Everything, 299 00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:11.319 every conversations about data. If all your company does is present data, you're 300 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:15.839 actually not differentiating yourself because you're not telling us your opinion about how you read 301 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:18.880 the data. There's no room for you to be a thought leader if all 302 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:25.480 you do is just provide information. So I think these nine are fantastic. 303 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:27.240 Yeah, but most important, with that data, and it means great, 304 00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:32.519 you need data and you need a real examples. It's not just quant right, 305 00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:37.799 it's qual. We need stats and stories. Right, that's the evidence. 306 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.680 But as you're as you're appointed to Benjie, we also need to say 307 00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:45.759 we need to wrap those stats and stories around. Here's what we're telling you 308 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:48.920 you should do. Here's you know, we told you about this problem. 309 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:52.240 You can decide whether you have the problem, and we're telling you how to 310 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.119 solve it. And we have weird stating story, but that's the point of 311 00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:00.759 view. Tell me how to solve this problem. Just don't speal out that 312 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.359 facts and stories and not tell me what I should do about it. Tell 313 00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:07.200 me what I should do about it. And a lot of companies either don't 314 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:11.119 say okay, if we now not. We don't need to tell them what 315 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.240 to do, because if we tell them what to do and a presentation or 316 00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:17.319 white paper that they won't hire us. You know, then we're kind of 317 00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:19.960 giving it away. I have want to be denied. You want to tell 318 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:23.000 them what to do, because then you're you set yourself up as the guide. 319 00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:27.160 Correct if it's as easy for them to read your white paper or your 320 00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:30.960 book, just read and can get great results and you don't really have much 321 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:37.440 of a business. And it's rarely that easy to just read somebody's book or 322 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:44.680 read a White Paper and operate at the level of skill that the authors operate 323 00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:48.400 that. It's never that. It's never that easy. Okay, so let's 324 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:52.799 say we've done the work, we've done the research, we create great content, 325 00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:56.759 and now what we are needing to do is we're needing to create demand 326 00:25:56.799 --> 00:26:00.960 for the expertise that we provide. Give me an example that comes to mind 327 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:04.559 for you of a person or an organization who has done this truly effectively and 328 00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:11.759 correctly. So one great example is a firm we work with in Twenty fifteen 329 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:18.880 and two thousand and sixteen. It's a pricing strategy consulting firm called Simon Coucher 330 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:23.200 and partners. They're based in Germany. They are the premier experts on pricing 331 00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:27.640 and which we price our product or service at. They came to us. 332 00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:34.279 We help them develop a book on pricing strategy, especially for technology products. 333 00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:40.799 The book was called Monetizing Innovation. It's been a best seller. It's been 334 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:45.400 a piece of thought leadership that they have used that has helped them grow fifty 335 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.839 percent, I think, over five years, two thousand and sixteen to two 336 00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:55.000 two thousand and twenty one. And the way it's and the way they brought 337 00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:57.400 that content to market is, in addition to the book and getting a whole 338 00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:02.440 lunch bunch of promotion around the book, they run conferences. So they have, 339 00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:04.240 you know, the authors from the book. They've had them appear at 340 00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:08.640 their conferences. I think they were doing forty or fifty conferences around the world 341 00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:15.680 before the pandemic. Pr Right, getting reporters to interview the books, excerpts, 342 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:21.119 giving private company presentations. You know, a Linkedin says I would love 343 00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:23.680 your book. Can you give a presentation to our executives here? We'd love 344 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:30.160 the book. So the Malt the marketing mix for thought leadership is is multifaceted. 345 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:33.880 It's not just one thing. Oh, you know, we've mailed at 346 00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:38.519 white paper. Were One and done. That's a recipe for failure. It's 347 00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:44.519 it's multiple ways to the market that book. They're still they're still speaking on 348 00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:48.720 the basis of that book six years later. You know, look at monetizing 349 00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:53.000 innovation and and one of the two authors made revenue, John or Gee Org 350 00:27:53.200 --> 00:27:59.160 is co author, a Gier, who I think has retired. But they're 351 00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:03.640 still marketing that book six years later. It's still, I imagine, generating 352 00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:08.039 business for them. So the marketing mix for thought leadership is, is what 353 00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:11.759 I say in the book, is High Band with low bias as opposed to 354 00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:18.400 low band with high bias. So, you know, high bandwidth means it's 355 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:22.640 marketing channels in which we can impart a lot of information, because we're going 356 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.279 to have to show people how smart we are. So high bandwidth channels are 357 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:33.799 things like white papers, op eds, Harvard business review articles, conference presentations. 358 00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:37.599 Okay, Hi band with low band with channels are not nearly as effective 359 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.240 for thought leadership. Low Band withth is we can only impart a little information 360 00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:45.960 because in an advertisement of one or two page add you know we're not going 361 00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.079 to write a, you know, print a two thousand word article on a 362 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:53.359 two page you donment or trade show boots. Okay, low band with high 363 00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:59.160 bias and low bias. So low bias is the audience doesn't think you're trying 364 00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:02.319 to sell them anything you they think you're trying to educate them. So this 365 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:07.319 is the difference between somebody speaking at a conference and somebody operating behind a conference 366 00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:14.640 booth. Everything's branded. So high band with low bias. Channels to market 367 00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:18.200 are the best ones for thought. Leadership. Those are different. INATIONAL marketing 368 00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:19.880 channels, right, those are those are different. It's not like putting a 369 00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:26.200 golf at it says jpmg on it or nothing wrong with that, but that's 370 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:30.480 not how you do that. Leadership. Different type of marketing? Yeah, 371 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:33.240 different type of marketing. Not to put that down at all. It's good 372 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:37.680 brand image marketing. Oh, you know, KPMG is is a sponsor of 373 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:41.720 the masters. They must be a big firm, they must schmove with executives. 374 00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:45.640 You know that that's important. Or marathon sponsorship. One of our clients 375 00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:51.960 taught a consultancy services as sponsored the major marathons around the world, including the 376 00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:57.039 New York Marathon and the Boston marathon up here where I am. Great brand 377 00:29:57.119 --> 00:30:00.680 image, great brand image, not the leadership, though, but great brand 378 00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:06.359 image. Yeah, that's why I think you're so spot on with saying this 379 00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:11.799 is more about business than it is just about a marketing ploy and I love 380 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:17.400 that you also explain how you get the message out there as this this ripple 381 00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:21.279 in the pond approach to thought leadership. Right, so you have moving out 382 00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:26.160 from owned to shared, two earned to paid, into this way of thinking 383 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.759 about it. Then I'm like, yeah, ultimately we have this owned property 384 00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:33.759 right, and there's a lot of people, I don't want to say this, 385 00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:38.559 I'm not going to just spout out a lot of people because that's not 386 00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:44.240 our fact, but you know, there's many out there that have an owned 387 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:48.759 piece of content that could separate them from the market, but they don't know 388 00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:52.839 how to put it properly out there for them to actually become thought leaders. 389 00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:57.759 They've created some piece of content that they hope is attracting people, but once 390 00:30:57.799 --> 00:31:00.880 you get beyond just the owned media, you have to figure out a way 391 00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.200 to get that ripple effect happening right. So explain that a little bit. 392 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:07.599 How you move out from just owned to then the ripples that you see in 393 00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:14.480 the pond. So obviously the own platforms are our websites, right, if 394 00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:18.480 we run our own conferences, that kind of thing, the our your email 395 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:22.799 newsletter, those are important. I'm not we're not advocating against that. We're 396 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:29.480 advocating for those. So the shared content are things like I post on Linkedin, 397 00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:33.799 right, or an issue a tweet, or or I post an article 398 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:37.559 on mediumcom. So those, those platforms are not yours, but you can 399 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:42.880 publish easily on them, right, but anybody can publish on them then. 400 00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:47.359 So those are important. That will get the message out and get people to 401 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:51.039 your own content on your website. And we think the place where you got 402 00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:55.519 to wind up getting people to is your website, all right, because then 403 00:31:55.599 --> 00:32:00.319 you begin to control the sales process, right, and what else they can 404 00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:05.440 learn about your company. So the shared shared content is important to get them 405 00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:09.680 to your website and because there are a lot more people typically and linkedin than 406 00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:16.680 are on the typical companies email mailing list. But shared content, the reader 407 00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:22.559 knows the difference between getting that same content as a linkedin post and getting that 408 00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:28.400 content in a prestigious publication like am slow management review or a Harvard Business Review 409 00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:37.119 or the oppened section of a newspaper. Those opportunities are earned and those kind 410 00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:42.640 of publications reject more than ninety percent of the unsolicited submissions that they get. 411 00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:45.680 So the reader knows the difference. Like, well, if it's in Harvard 412 00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:49.160 Business Review, it must be very good, because the content read content. 413 00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:52.960 Yeah, it's curated and it's edited heavily often by it people at each of 414 00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:59.880 you are. And so I could run the same article on Linkedin and if 415 00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:02.839 HBRE ran it, and they wouldn't if they have sought on Linkedin. So 416 00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:06.119 you know, we'd all aduse clients to do it, and I don't. 417 00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:08.559 I don't do that. But if I managed to run the same article on 418 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:15.519 my linkedin profile as ran under my name at Hbr, I can guarantee you 419 00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:20.119 the one a hbre would generate a lot more interest, would be seen as 420 00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:23.880 much more credible, much more believable, even though they're the same one hundred 421 00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:28.720 words as what I said on Linkedin, simply because of the credibility of that 422 00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:34.960 platform. So so that's owned media and that is really important, especially as 423 00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:39.079 more and more people are are are putting their content on their website and using 424 00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:45.119 linkedin another shared media. You know what kind of begins to separate the week 425 00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:50.640 from the chaff. Is Are you getting? Are you earning your place in 426 00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:55.039 the venues that your target audience is actually reading and putting stocking? And then 427 00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:59.480 there's the paid media. You know, that's adds, right, Google, 428 00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:02.920 add words, Linkedin ads, twitter ads, facebook ads, etc. That 429 00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:07.480 can get too much bigger audiences, but but at the end of the day 430 00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:13.000 their advertisements and so people know that. Yeah, that's a me seems like 431 00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:15.960 the kind of icing on the cake in a sense. When you think about 432 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:20.599 thought leadership, people, you can skip around within this framework. When you're 433 00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:24.559 just thinking of advertising more generally, you jump to paid more quickly if you're 434 00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:30.039 thinking about just ads, but when you're thinking of thought leadership you're not not 435 00:34:30.199 --> 00:34:36.679 really at that ripple until you've created. Those the the first ones that we 436 00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:39.079 talked about there. So I love the I'm a very visual person, Bob, 437 00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:42.719 so I like the way that you laid that out. But one other 438 00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:45.239 rite out about the ripples in the pond is you know, and I say 439 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:49.559 this in the book, the better the content you have, the bigger the 440 00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:52.360 rock. You know, to use this metaphor that you're throwing into the more 441 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:57.480 ripples you're creating. Mediocre content is, you know, it's like a small 442 00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:00.159 it's like a small rock. Throw it out there, not a lot of 443 00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:05.440 ripples. As a marketer, the worst things for marketers are to have to 444 00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:12.199 market crappy content. They dread having to do that, and for bosses to 445 00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:17.920 expect miracles from crappy content or or mediocre you know, marketers dream is is 446 00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:22.559 to have truly unique and compelling content. You just know, right, we 447 00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:25.280 all know that that's going to get a lot more legs out there, it's 448 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:28.800 going to get a lot of word them out, a lot of shares, 449 00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:34.519 etc. When you nail a piece of content. So the better the content, 450 00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:37.679 the bigger the wrote, the bigger the rock you're throwing into the pond 451 00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:40.239 and the more ripples that are going to emanate from that. Yeah, I 452 00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:45.480 think of that because on this show, I know we're in recent weeks, 453 00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:49.679 we've talked a lot about pillar content and when you're taking pillar content into this 454 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.400 thought leadership approach, the way that you could see it similarly, is even 455 00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:57.280 if you were just creating this piece of content wants a quarter or twice a 456 00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:00.599 year to begin where you're putting a ton of F it in, but the 457 00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:05.639 amount of content that can come out of that one piece is almost limitless, 458 00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:10.519 like it's worth the extra effort to have this cohesive piece of content you've created 459 00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:15.800 that. Then other videos can come out of other topics for your blog can 460 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:20.960 come out of other but you're really really working to make that rock as big 461 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:27.000 as possible so that the ripples really are endless. We got to take guys, 462 00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:29.920 start to wrap this thing up. This's been a fascinating conversation, but 463 00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:32.760 I want to I want to go back to basically where we were at the 464 00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:37.840 beginning, this idea that this has to be a business strategy and not just 465 00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:42.480 a peace in the marketing plan. So when we're thinking of implementation from the 466 00:36:42.519 --> 00:36:45.800 top levels on down, I wonder, Bob, what would you leave us 467 00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:49.320 with is you think about what this should look like? What are the high 468 00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:53.239 level conversations or the structures that have to be in place first for us to 469 00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:59.559 really be competing on thought leadership? That's a fantastic question, because there are 470 00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:05.360 a lot of people in big firms there their head of thought leadership, researcher, 471 00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:09.039 the cheap marketing officer and they will come to us and they say we 472 00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:13.239 don't have a big enough budget to do what we want. Most of the 473 00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:17.639 top management team has a skeptical view on thought leadership. You know, if 474 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:21.480 it works then they'll give us more, but they're not sure they should be 475 00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:23.199 doing it in the first place. That you know, yeah, we're doing 476 00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:28.280 it because so and soap competitors doing it and so it's an expense that has 477 00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:31.480 to be minimized. That's that's to you at the top. So if I'm 478 00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:37.280 that head of thought leadership, research and or chief marketing officer, the best 479 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.079 way I have found to get the folks at the top to actually take a 480 00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:45.239 leap of faith and their minds to believe that thought leadership something they need to 481 00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:52.159 do get a lot more serious about, is to set up conversations with key 482 00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:59.559 clients or firms that could be clients, who executives in these firms who love 483 00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:04.920 good thought leadership content. Introduce those folks, half a dozen, if you 484 00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:08.800 could get them at a focus group with your top management team and tell your 485 00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:14.159 top management team to just listen. Why these people? And you're going to 486 00:38:14.199 --> 00:38:17.239 have to select these people make sure that they are in fact advocates that they 487 00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:22.079 are big consumers of fout leadership. Have have your your clients talk about why 488 00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:28.119 this is so important in the way they do things. I think nothing will. 489 00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:32.159 Nothing in our that many CMOS will say or heads of thought leadership research 490 00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:37.360 will say to the bosses will count nearly as much, or at account nearly 491 00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:43.920 as much as what big clients say. And the hope would be once a 492 00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:47.280 leadership team says, you know, the six clients that were in this room 493 00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:52.840 represent thirty percent of our revenue, now we get a much better idea, 494 00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:58.880 we have a much better idea of why thought leadership matters to them. Then 495 00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:01.559 the lightbulbs go on and they say, Gosh, we got to fund this 496 00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:06.960 thing. You know, we're starving you guys of funds. We got it. 497 00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:09.239 Now. If clients say it's important, it's got to be important for 498 00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:14.639 us. Yep, snowball effect from there. Well, we want people to 499 00:39:14.679 --> 00:39:17.159 go get the book. It's called competing on thought leadership. Encourage everyone to 500 00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:20.840 go grab it. Bob, for people that want to connect with you, 501 00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:24.519 what's the best way for them to do that? Sure want is to look 502 00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:30.880 at our website, which is Boudet tlpcom or they can email me at Bob 503 00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:37.960 at Boudet tlpcom. Well, thanks to everyone who has taken time to listen 504 00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:42.519 to this episode. I know it's extremely insightful. It's one that will continue 505 00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:46.199 to help us as we are creating content, as we're thinking about the type 506 00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:51.719 of work that we're doing, and so love this. If you have not 507 00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:54.079 followed the show yet, be sure to do that on whatever platform you're listening 508 00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:58.400 too this on. I'd love to connect with you here from you. You 509 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:01.199 can do that on Linkedin. Just Search Benjie Block. Bob One more time. 510 00:40:01.639 --> 00:40:05.760 Thanks for being here man. Thank you, Magie. Great Conversation. 511 00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:22.760 Will be back real soon with another episode. We're always excited to have conversations 512 00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.480 with leaders on the front lines of marketing. If there's a marketing director or 513 00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:29.719 a chief marketing officer that you think we need to have on the show, 514 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:34.639 we're reach out. Email me, Beng dot block at Sweet Fish Mediacom. 515 00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:36.000 I look forward to hearing from you.
