#Culture 1: Transformational Leadership: Define Your Future Self w/ Dr. Benjamin Hardy

WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.919 --> 00:00:08.150 Welcome back to crafting culture. I'm Blake Boz are at, the founder of 2 00:00:08.230 --> 00:00:13.349 Cothrive, where we help leaders and companies thrive, powered by their why they're 3 00:00:13.390 --> 00:00:17.230 motivating, purpose and mission. I'm the host of a leadership development series on 4 00:00:17.350 --> 00:00:22.339 crafting culture, and today I'm joined by the one, the only, Dr 5 00:00:22.500 --> 00:00:27.620 Benjamin Hardy. Ben is a world renowned writer. He has over a hundred 6 00:00:27.620 --> 00:00:31.260 million people that have read as stuff. It's pretty crazy. He's ranked as 7 00:00:31.260 --> 00:00:34.780 a number one writer in the world on medium, which is, coincidentally, 8 00:00:34.820 --> 00:00:37.929 where I first discovered them back in two thousand and fifteen, and he's the 9 00:00:38.049 --> 00:00:42.929 best selling author of will power. Doesn't work as well as the soon to 10 00:00:43.090 --> 00:00:48.090 be released book personality isn't permanent. I got an advanced copy of this book 11 00:00:48.130 --> 00:00:52.799 and I'll tell you, it is fantastic and challenges a lot of the stuff 12 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:58.600 that society has ingrained in us. I considered a true paradigm shifting book. 13 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:03.320 Found it extremely empowering, much like the rest of what been rights been has 14 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:06.709 personally been a big part of my personal growth during the last five years and 15 00:01:06.829 --> 00:01:10.189 I'm just super pumped to have them on the show. So, Ben Thank 16 00:01:10.269 --> 00:01:12.349 you for being here. Av You with you, Blake. What a pleasure, 17 00:01:14.269 --> 00:01:19.900 so great. So today our topic is the truth about personality, what 18 00:01:19.060 --> 00:01:23.659 it means for you individually, the person as a leader, and then, 19 00:01:23.900 --> 00:01:26.739 of course, what it means for the people that you lead. So so 20 00:01:26.900 --> 00:01:30.780 the spoiler alert here is that Ben Ben's book. What we're going to talk 21 00:01:30.780 --> 00:01:36.969 about is that personality isn't merely something just to be discovered or simply accepted. 22 00:01:37.010 --> 00:01:42.209 It's something that we can actually create and willfully shape as we pursue our future 23 00:01:42.250 --> 00:01:46.409 self. So this book is a little bit controversial, Bim, we're just 24 00:01:46.409 --> 00:01:49.719 chatting about it in the in the beginning here, because lots of people believe 25 00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:53.280 that you are kind of who you are and you just need to discover that, 26 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:59.439 you discover your personality, and lots of people really do love their personality 27 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:01.870 tests. So I guess let's see it up with. The first question is, 28 00:02:01.989 --> 00:02:07.870 what is your beef with personality test? Yes, there's a lot of 29 00:02:07.989 --> 00:02:10.430 beef I have with these tests. Yes, I'll start by saying that the 30 00:02:10.550 --> 00:02:15.310 typical personality test, which generally are the popular ones, the Myers breaks the 31 00:02:15.469 --> 00:02:20.939 discs. Any test that over qualifies a person or over classifies a person is 32 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:25.379 a really fumbled view of psychology. It's not a good view of psychology. 33 00:02:25.419 --> 00:02:30.050 It's not how we as psychologists. Few people in psychology there's a huge emphasis 34 00:02:30.090 --> 00:02:37.449 on what we call context, context being more important than just content. You 35 00:02:37.530 --> 00:02:38.969 know, these tests, they give you a score, but the assumption is 36 00:02:39.090 --> 00:02:44.210 that the score is always true and I think anyone who's listening to this can 37 00:02:44.289 --> 00:02:47.080 realize that you're not always the same, you know. As for myself, 38 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:51.840 let's just say I'm a high endj there's if I actually were to look at 39 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:54.719 my behavior in a multitude of scenarios of my life, I wouldn't show up 40 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:59.349 that way in every situation. You know, in different situations and in different 41 00:02:59.349 --> 00:03:00.949 roles in my life I'll show up differently, but kind of more from a 42 00:03:00.990 --> 00:03:05.909 scientific perspective, and I do want to break down why. I believe that 43 00:03:05.949 --> 00:03:08.909 there's a lot of baggage these tests place upon people. But scientifically, one 44 00:03:08.909 --> 00:03:13.300 of the things I was very surprised by and getting my PhD was learning that 45 00:03:13.340 --> 00:03:15.580 these types of tests are just not good science. They're not valid, they're 46 00:03:15.580 --> 00:03:20.620 not reliable. That's not to say that they can't provide usefulness for people. 47 00:03:20.620 --> 00:03:24.620 I think the obviously a lot of people find them useful. They're just not 48 00:03:24.860 --> 00:03:29.770 the most accurate way of looking at people and they're not they're not reliable, 49 00:03:29.969 --> 00:03:31.650 meaning that you're not going to get the same score over and over. The 50 00:03:31.849 --> 00:03:37.569 score that you get or that your employee gets is not them, it's not 51 00:03:37.770 --> 00:03:39.650 you know, and they might have scored the way they did for some reason 52 00:03:39.729 --> 00:03:43.680 and that may be useful information, but they're going to get a different score 53 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:46.159 if you've tested them them in different situations. You know, there's a lot 54 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:50.719 of research on that, obviously, and your tests are going to change over 55 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:53.280 time, and so you just have to realize at best this is a snapshot 56 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:57.550 and it's information you could potential to use, but I would use it with 57 00:03:57.669 --> 00:04:00.750 a huge grain of salt, and so I'll speak as me, as the 58 00:04:00.830 --> 00:04:03.830 individual. That's why why this would limit me. But I think you can 59 00:04:03.909 --> 00:04:06.949 take the same information as a leader and see how it can influence you, 60 00:04:06.990 --> 00:04:10.460 because I'm a parent, I mean I'm a leader, I have employees. 61 00:04:10.460 --> 00:04:14.460 I can understand how we develop biases and how we see other people. You 62 00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:16.540 know, just as an example real quick, like I have a twelve year 63 00:04:16.540 --> 00:04:20.060 old time, I've got twelve, ten and eight year old and you know 64 00:04:20.139 --> 00:04:25.370 we adopted these kids, but I have certain ways that I see these kids 65 00:04:25.410 --> 00:04:28.129 that I'm triggered by. Like you know, like my oldest son Caleb, 66 00:04:28.209 --> 00:04:30.089 who's twelve. There's certain tendencies, of course, that he has. We 67 00:04:30.170 --> 00:04:34.209 all have tendencies. I'm not disclaiming the idea that we have personalities. We 68 00:04:34.250 --> 00:04:39.360 definitely have personalities. I'm just saying that these things are not permanent. But 69 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:43.839 anyways, if Caleb, I often will see him doing things, I guess 70 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:46.519 an example, often tries to get at his work and recently, you know, 71 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:50.480 with whole covid situation, a lot of homeschool like I was recently kind 72 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:54.230 of annoyed by him training I was working. To mcaleb, you're always trying 73 00:04:54.230 --> 00:04:58.629 to get of your work. Stop, you know, and my wife was 74 00:04:58.829 --> 00:05:00.870 like Ben, don't talk to him like that, and then she was able 75 00:05:00.870 --> 00:05:06.379 to point positively to the idea that earlier that morning he was actually incredibly proactive 76 00:05:06.379 --> 00:05:11.220 and things like that, and I was like actually, you're right, good 77 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:13.860 job, caleb, like yeah, the in this situation you're doing that, 78 00:05:14.019 --> 00:05:15.459 but actually, yeah, this morning you've been doing amazing and actually, if 79 00:05:15.500 --> 00:05:18.180 I really think about it, you've been doing really Dang good over the last 80 00:05:18.180 --> 00:05:23.569 few months and so sorry for saying that to you. And I think that 81 00:05:23.970 --> 00:05:28.209 as people, we know in psychology it's called selective attention, but we see 82 00:05:28.250 --> 00:05:30.810 the world through a filter, you know, we see the world through our 83 00:05:30.930 --> 00:05:32.649 perspective. It's the reason why when you buy a car, you see that 84 00:05:32.769 --> 00:05:34.759 car everywhere. You know, it's like, HMM, you know, when 85 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:38.360 you you see the car you're driving, you don't see the five hundred other 86 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:42.240 cars. That's the Lens and these tests give you a very strong lens. 87 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:45.279 If you take them seriously, if you take the score you get, and 88 00:05:45.399 --> 00:05:48.560 then that label becomes kind of an embedded aspect of your identity, then you're 89 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:51.910 gonna you're going to take it seriously. You're I and then you're going to 90 00:05:51.990 --> 00:05:57.149 be you're going to believe that the thing is always true. So I would 91 00:05:57.149 --> 00:06:00.430 point people to Ellen lingers work. It's really important. She's been studying mindfulness 92 00:06:00.509 --> 00:06:03.379 for a long time and if you've ever really studied her work, no, 93 00:06:03.579 --> 00:06:06.620 haven't. Yeah, so she's got a little linger. Yeah, she's at 94 00:06:06.660 --> 00:06:12.500 Harvard Psychology. Has Been studying mindfulness for about forty years. Her Book Mindfulness 95 00:06:12.500 --> 00:06:15.620 in her book counterclockwise. They would blow your mind. But one of the 96 00:06:15.740 --> 00:06:18.050 things that she studies is obviously what leads to someone to being mindless, like 97 00:06:18.209 --> 00:06:23.329 to being unaware, and labels are a very big thing that leads people to 98 00:06:23.370 --> 00:06:26.569 be mindless. Like if someone thinks that they're depressed, they think they're always 99 00:06:26.569 --> 00:06:30.490 depressed. They'll downplayer ignore all the times when they're actually happy, and so 100 00:06:30.930 --> 00:06:34.240 these tests make you think you're a certain way when actually you're not. You're 101 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:39.040 not that consistent what you think you're. Your label. Is My huge beef, 102 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:44.240 aside from these facts, is that usually when someone's adopted a label, 103 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:46.040 they seek to defend the label. If something's a part of your identity, 104 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:49.550 you're going to defend it and you're not going to be very open to useful 105 00:06:49.589 --> 00:06:53.790 conversations outside of it. You're going to be non flexible and you're gonna be 106 00:06:53.790 --> 00:06:58.709 very rigid snaking that's outside your identity. So it ultimately creates a fixed mindset. 107 00:06:59.350 --> 00:07:01.459 That's if you don't want. You don't want. You don't want the 108 00:07:01.540 --> 00:07:08.500 individually. Also don't want, as leaders, to be inadvertently inflicting people with 109 00:07:08.620 --> 00:07:11.500 a fixed mindset either. Right. So that's a that's a big warning for 110 00:07:11.660 --> 00:07:15.569 us as leaders to think about how do we how do we use personality tests? 111 00:07:15.649 --> 00:07:17.930 So for me, a lot of this book, I'm going to be 112 00:07:18.009 --> 00:07:23.129 honest, was was just kind of refreshing and confirming for me, because I've 113 00:07:23.290 --> 00:07:28.490 always bristled at personality test because I hated I hated the feeling of like I 114 00:07:28.610 --> 00:07:30.639 was being put in a box. So you talked before about how like there's 115 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:34.560 this you're not always one thing and you can flex, even if you know 116 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:39.000 sometimes you may be extroverted, sometimes you may be introverted. I just hated 117 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:43.120 the idea of like hey, you answer all these questions and then it spits 118 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:46.189 out this is who you are, and I'm like that's not who I am 119 00:07:46.189 --> 00:07:49.870 and maybe maybe who I tend to be majority of the time basically way answer 120 00:07:49.910 --> 00:07:53.829 the questions, but it's not necessarily who I am. So that was kind 121 00:07:53.829 --> 00:07:55.990 of good for me, to me, but one of the things I don't 122 00:07:56.029 --> 00:07:59.420 think I'm alone in that, but I also think there's a lot of people 123 00:07:59.420 --> 00:08:05.180 who latch onto these tests because because they like being told who they are and 124 00:08:05.139 --> 00:08:09.579 they love to say, for instance, the Anagram seems like it is the 125 00:08:09.500 --> 00:08:15.050 the hot test over the last few years and I will say with the any 126 00:08:15.129 --> 00:08:16.089 gram. It is one of the first test where I was like hey, 127 00:08:16.410 --> 00:08:20.930 this one. I feel like they got me better than almost any other test 128 00:08:20.970 --> 00:08:24.050 that I take him before, and I like that. They kind of pier 129 00:08:24.129 --> 00:08:26.199 you up with a wing and you know it's not just one thing and it's 130 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:30.240 a bigger spectrum. But people love US talk about their numbers. They love 131 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:31.840 to talk about this. This is who I am, or I'm a seven 132 00:08:31.960 --> 00:08:35.759 and I'm a three or I'm a tow and I'd see that a lot. 133 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.200 So I can I can definitely resonate with what you're saying. Or people kind 134 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:45.070 of use it to confirm who they are and then defend I do this because 135 00:08:45.070 --> 00:08:46.149 I'm a seven, or I of this because I'm an eight, and that's 136 00:08:46.190 --> 00:08:50.509 just the way I am, and that can be really dangerous thing when you're 137 00:08:50.509 --> 00:08:54.230 not focused on you know, who is your future self and sew and who 138 00:08:54.269 --> 00:08:56.460 do you want your future self to be? So that's a concept, then, 139 00:08:56.539 --> 00:09:01.139 that you talked about that I absolutely love. So maybe you can expound 140 00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:05.740 a little bit on that. Why is it important to envision and actually pursue 141 00:09:05.940 --> 00:09:11.009 a future self? Yeah, I mean, and let's just say it's fundamentally 142 00:09:11.210 --> 00:09:16.169 crucial to having a sense of meaning and purpose in your life. I'll break 143 00:09:16.210 --> 00:09:18.450 it down as far as the science, but I'm going to actually start because 144 00:09:18.490 --> 00:09:22.450 I just reread this book man searched for meeting by Victor Fronkele. You ever 145 00:09:22.529 --> 00:09:26.120 read that one? No, haven't. Give me. Wow, my goodness, 146 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.279 you're gonna have to read that book. This book is a classic. 147 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:33.879 It was written back like in the S. it's written by a guy who 148 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:39.269 was a Jew in the German concentration camps durring like the you know the Juke, 149 00:09:39.509 --> 00:09:41.309 I mean the German concentration camps of like the World War II, like 150 00:09:41.350 --> 00:09:45.669 where they killed millions in moncustoms. Yep, yes to this. Yeah, 151 00:09:45.909 --> 00:09:48.710 so the Holocaust. So this victor fronkles one of the people who survived that 152 00:09:48.830 --> 00:09:54.299 situation and he wrote about his experiences. He was a psychiatrist. The book 153 00:09:54.419 --> 00:09:56.940 is so I mean it's literally a classic, like, I couldn't. I 154 00:09:58.139 --> 00:10:01.980 was required to read that book as a psychology student. Well, but it's 155 00:10:01.139 --> 00:10:05.139 really it really shifts how you view people and one of the things he talked 156 00:10:05.179 --> 00:10:13.090 about is that when people lost a sense of purpose or future in future and 157 00:10:13.169 --> 00:10:16.690 purpose go hand in hand, you can't really have a purpose, without a 158 00:10:16.769 --> 00:10:20.370 future. When people lost a sense of a future, they died very quickly 159 00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:24.559 in the concentration camps. So like when, like, so a lot of 160 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:30.080 people had the expectations, because these people were in there for years, you 161 00:10:30.159 --> 00:10:33.200 know, and they were in horrible living conditions and often they'd get gas and 162 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:35.909 killed. They would be taken from their homes and, like, a lot 163 00:10:35.909 --> 00:10:39.230 of them had like hopes. You know, hope is really important as a 164 00:10:39.389 --> 00:10:43.350 concept, but they had hope and it's, you know, anticipation that they 165 00:10:43.389 --> 00:10:48.950 would get out near Christmas certain times. And when Christmas would come by and 166 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:54.139 they wouldn't get out, a lot of people died right of right around that 167 00:10:54.340 --> 00:10:58.379 time, and it's cut and from FRONCO's perspectives, because they lost their sense 168 00:10:58.460 --> 00:11:01.659 of purpose or their meaning, and meeting in purpose go close together. So 169 00:11:01.700 --> 00:11:05.649 when you lack meaning, then you lose identity and you you really, I 170 00:11:05.730 --> 00:11:09.649 mean in crucial situations like that, you literally die. If you think about 171 00:11:09.649 --> 00:11:13.009 it from the perspective of retirement, there's a lot of like research around the 172 00:11:13.049 --> 00:11:16.009 idea that, you know, your life expectancy plummets if you retire from your 173 00:11:16.049 --> 00:11:20.320 career because you lose that sense of purpose and meaning and so kind of pulling 174 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:22.919 this together. And that's just kind of a little bit of background. The 175 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:26.200 idea here is that if you don't have a sense of purpose for your future, 176 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:31.360 it's actually very difficult to have meeting and in a sense of identity in 177 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:35.269 the present. You need a future. But kind of going backwards now, 178 00:11:35.629 --> 00:11:41.549 there's a lot of research, particularly from Harvard and from Ucla, but Daniel 179 00:11:41.590 --> 00:11:45.429 Gilbert he gat he gave it Ted Talk. Highly recommend it's called the psychology 180 00:11:45.509 --> 00:11:48.299 of your future self. Six minutes Ted talk for anyone the list. Yeah, 181 00:11:48.539 --> 00:11:52.419 it's six minutes talk, but he has spent a lot of time studying 182 00:11:52.460 --> 00:11:58.620 personality development over time and his research is really important for understanding, first off, 183 00:11:58.700 --> 00:12:01.570 why you shouldn't be so definitive about your current self, but also it 184 00:12:01.690 --> 00:12:07.690 leads to a lot of understanding about why people get stuck in patterns. All. 185 00:12:07.809 --> 00:12:09.809 First I guess I'll just use uses the example. I know you've already 186 00:12:09.809 --> 00:12:13.889 read the book, Blake, but like just using you as the example, 187 00:12:13.129 --> 00:12:16.519 like, do you believe you're the exact same person you were ten years ago? 188 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:22.639 Heck No, no, I can't. Yeah, it's amazing to look 189 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:24.159 back when it's actually one of the things. One of my favorite article that 190 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:30.029 is plug right now about but from you've done, was focusing on the gain 191 00:12:30.389 --> 00:12:33.070 over the gap. Yeah, and so one of the most like for me, 192 00:12:33.629 --> 00:12:37.830 because I'm naturally focused on the gap all the Times going on in a 193 00:12:37.909 --> 00:12:41.029 person. One of the most encouraging things for me that was when I reflected 194 00:12:41.070 --> 00:12:43.500 back and looked at the game. So yes, it's kind of a tangent 195 00:12:43.580 --> 00:12:46.980 there. But yes, know, a lot, a lot, a lot 196 00:12:46.059 --> 00:12:48.500 has changed. A lot has changed, a lot of growth, thankfully, 197 00:12:50.019 --> 00:12:52.740 over last ten years. Yeah, I agree. I'm not that I know 198 00:12:52.779 --> 00:12:58.100 who you were ten years ago, but no, it's really beneficial to look 199 00:12:58.139 --> 00:13:01.370 at and honestly. So this is what Gilbert talks about. So He Daniel 200 00:13:01.409 --> 00:13:03.970 Gilbert at Harvard. He's been asking people this question for a long time. 201 00:13:05.409 --> 00:13:09.250 Almost everyone provides the same answer. You provide that they're not. You're the 202 00:13:09.289 --> 00:13:11.529 same person it worth ten years ago. They're completely different. Their preferences, 203 00:13:11.570 --> 00:13:16.440 their perspectives, maybe their goals, what they value. That's pretty normal. 204 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.279 What he finds next, though, is that most people underplay potential change in 205 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:22.399 the future. So if I would ask you, you know, do you 206 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:26.519 think you're going to be just as different in ten years from now. You 207 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:28.990 might, because your goal oriented person say yeah, you know, I'm not 208 00:13:30.110 --> 00:13:33.590 exactly precisely sure how much different would be. But yeah, I could see 209 00:13:33.629 --> 00:13:35.909 that. A lot of people, though, even if they've seen how different 210 00:13:35.909 --> 00:13:39.950 they actually are, they think that who they are today is primarily who they're 211 00:13:39.950 --> 00:13:45.379 going to be long into the future. So Daniel Gilbert has a like a 212 00:13:45.820 --> 00:13:48.659 title for that. It's called the end of history illusion. But what there's 213 00:13:48.700 --> 00:13:52.259 that there's a dissonance. They're basically so you can recognize this big change or 214 00:13:52.259 --> 00:13:56.889 less ten years, but it's hard for people to envision and forecast that out 215 00:13:56.929 --> 00:14:01.370 another ten years. Yeah, and he's said I can do that because i 216 00:14:01.450 --> 00:14:03.730 read your stuff then, but I can see a lot of people could go 217 00:14:05.009 --> 00:14:07.730 with that. Well, Gilbert has two statements that explain why. So he 218 00:14:07.769 --> 00:14:11.720 says human beings are works in progress that mistakenly think they're finished. So we 219 00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:16.399 think, we think we're finished, and so obviously Myers breaks tests like that 220 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:18.519 can make you really definitive and who you think you are. Yeah, but 221 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:22.120 also he says the reason we don't project the future very well is because we 222 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:28.549 spend more time remembering the past then imagining the future. And so basically, 223 00:14:28.230 --> 00:14:31.549 how hers filled, WHO's at UCLA. He's been studying the idea of having 224 00:14:31.590 --> 00:14:35.629 a future stuff concept and how that influences your decision making. And basically what 225 00:14:35.750 --> 00:14:39.299 he's found is is that it's impot it's very difficult. Well, in other 226 00:14:39.299 --> 00:14:43.259 words, you're going to make way better decisions if you do so with a 227 00:14:43.340 --> 00:14:46.500 future self in mind. Like, think about it. If you if you 228 00:14:46.659 --> 00:14:50.860 know who your future self is, then you can make decisions today that would 229 00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:52.250 lead you to that. If you don't have a sense of who you're going 230 00:14:52.250 --> 00:14:56.129 to be in the future, then it doesn't really matter who you are today, 231 00:14:56.289 --> 00:14:58.529 like it really doesn't matter how you spend your time today if you don't 232 00:14:58.529 --> 00:15:01.250 have a sense of where you want to be in the future now. And 233 00:15:01.529 --> 00:15:05.009 so what Hirshfield is found is that it's really good to think about your future 234 00:15:05.009 --> 00:15:07.320 self as a very different person than you are today, just like you're a 235 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:09.799 different person than you were ten years ago, right, and so this is 236 00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.840 why it's really good, is because when you just let go of the idea 237 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:18.240 that your current self is the ultimate reality and that your future self is going 238 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:20.039 to be different, then you don't have to hold so tight to your current 239 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:24.629 identity. You don't have to overly define your current self. In fact, 240 00:15:24.750 --> 00:15:26.590 to do so would be a really dumb idea, because you're going to be 241 00:15:26.710 --> 00:15:31.269 different in the future, and so why would you want to be so hard 242 00:15:31.429 --> 00:15:33.389 nosed about who you think you are today? And so I think that that's 243 00:15:33.429 --> 00:15:37.860 a crucial to realize first off, your future self is going to be different. 244 00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:39.940 The next step is obviously taking the time to say, well, who 245 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:43.539 is that person going to be? And I think that that's that's kind of 246 00:15:43.700 --> 00:15:48.740 where stuff really becomes fun, is is you start to define who your future 247 00:15:48.740 --> 00:15:52.129 self is. This is where you know. I think you've got to take 248 00:15:52.210 --> 00:15:54.370 the time to think about what your goals are in the person you want to 249 00:15:54.409 --> 00:15:58.929 be and what you want your circumstances and scenario is. But once you do 250 00:15:58.289 --> 00:16:02.889 that, once you've defined your future self and you start telling people about your 251 00:16:02.929 --> 00:16:06.759 goals, then it's a lot less important about who you are today, because 252 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:08.679 your future self is kind of the person that matters at that point, and 253 00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:11.960 it's not like a fake it till you make it. It's more like you 254 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:15.600 know, this is where I'm going. I'm not there yet, but this 255 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:21.710 is where I'm going and I am empowered to take myself there to actually create, 256 00:16:22.149 --> 00:16:25.789 create who I want to be, what kind of personality to actually want 257 00:16:25.789 --> 00:16:29.470 to have. No, that's that's really powerful because I see it all the 258 00:16:29.549 --> 00:16:33.620 time in business, in the business world, in corporate America particular. But 259 00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:38.259 we love our personality test and you know they can be helpful, I guess, 260 00:16:38.299 --> 00:16:42.539 and bringing awareness where folks may not have awareness. So when I ask 261 00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:47.019 you a little bit about that, and just a second. But the reality 262 00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:51.210 of it is we spend a lot of time personally and in and in business, 263 00:16:51.690 --> 00:16:56.809 assessing where somebody is right and not enough time, not nearly enough time, 264 00:16:56.409 --> 00:17:03.440 envisioning where they can be in the future and helping them really get and 265 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:06.640 map out how they're going to get there in the future. So one of 266 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:08.920 your one of your lines in the book then that I loved was your goals, 267 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:12.839 shape your identity. Can you talk to us a little bit about how, 268 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:21.230 as leaders, could you help somebody really envision and then pursue in an 269 00:17:21.309 --> 00:17:26.069 intentional way their future self? I mean, I think how I look at 270 00:17:26.150 --> 00:17:30.460 it, because I mean I have employees, is I always want to know 271 00:17:30.619 --> 00:17:34.859 before I hire someone why this job is going to help them achieve their big 272 00:17:34.900 --> 00:17:38.019 picture goals. Like, yes, it's going to give you money, but 273 00:17:38.180 --> 00:17:42.059 what do you actually getting out of this situation that's leading you where you want 274 00:17:42.059 --> 00:17:45.690 to go? Because, from my perspective, the goal always determines the process. 275 00:17:47.289 --> 00:17:49.170 And so, like I know why I'm hiring this person, because I 276 00:17:49.170 --> 00:17:52.569 have a specific job that needs to be done, you know. So I 277 00:17:52.690 --> 00:17:56.009 know what I get out of it. You know, not only do I 278 00:17:56.049 --> 00:17:57.450 have the freedom of time, or do I freget my team and but there's 279 00:17:57.450 --> 00:18:00.240 certain things that need to be get done. But what do they get out 280 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:04.000 of it? I think for me, all relationships have to be win when 281 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:11.640 I view them as collaborations. And so once I'm clear on what their goal 282 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:17.150 is for this situation, aside for money, then it becomes a lot easier 283 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:22.069 and more powerful for them to create that that situation. So in psychology we 284 00:18:22.109 --> 00:18:26.230 call it deliberate practice. So, like deliberate practice is basically the idea of 285 00:18:26.269 --> 00:18:30.819 intentional learning. You know, just as an example, when I started blogging 286 00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:33.579 online, and I'm really gratefull you read my articles, but like I was 287 00:18:33.740 --> 00:18:37.740 writing with the perspective of my future self in mind, like I wasn't just 288 00:18:37.900 --> 00:18:42.170 blogging because that was my goal. I was blogging to achieve a goal and 289 00:18:42.369 --> 00:18:45.809 that's why my blogging got better. So, like your process can only get 290 00:18:45.849 --> 00:18:51.609 better if it's if that process is targeted towards a goal. So Malcolm glad 291 00:18:51.650 --> 00:18:56.640 will popularized the tenzero hour rule, which comes from the research of delibert practice. 292 00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:59.839 But there's no tenzero hour rule. Yeah, like you can do something 293 00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:03.839 for tenzero hours and continue to suck at it. You know, like the 294 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:08.880 idea is deliberate practice. The only way to deliberately practice or turn experience into 295 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:11.750 learning. You know you can do it. You can experience the same thing 296 00:19:11.789 --> 00:19:17.430 a thousand times and not learn anything from the goal is to transform experience into 297 00:19:17.589 --> 00:19:21.589 learning and then change, and the only way for that to happen is for 298 00:19:21.710 --> 00:19:25.380 a person to be clear on the goal or the purpose so they can take 299 00:19:25.460 --> 00:19:29.299 their learning and trends or their experience and transition it into learning. That's why 300 00:19:29.339 --> 00:19:33.259 I think, whoever's on your team, that it needs to be clear why 301 00:19:33.380 --> 00:19:37.140 this experience is ultimately going to be transformed into the you know, the education 302 00:19:37.220 --> 00:19:40.730 or the experiences or the network, whatever it is they're trying to get out 303 00:19:40.730 --> 00:19:44.609 of it if they're not intentional about their experience and they're not going to actually 304 00:19:44.609 --> 00:19:47.410 get the most out of it, and then they might just fall into the 305 00:19:47.490 --> 00:19:52.170 rolls or the norms of the culture or or to whatever. They not actually 306 00:19:52.250 --> 00:19:53.359 going to get the most out of it and they're not going to give the 307 00:19:53.440 --> 00:19:56.599 most to it. But once someone has a purpose for doing something, I 308 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.160 mean this goes back to front cale. Once someone has a purpose for doing 309 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:04.799 something, they become heavily invested. And for me it's like I want everyone 310 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:07.990 on my team to be incredibly invested. I want them to go above and 311 00:20:08.069 --> 00:20:11.789 beyond. You know, that's what transformational leadership is, is helping people go 312 00:20:11.910 --> 00:20:15.190 above and beyond the call of duty because they want to, not because they 313 00:20:15.269 --> 00:20:18.390 have to. And if you can help them have that higher sense of purpose, 314 00:20:18.470 --> 00:20:22.420 than they're not just doing a job, they're actually working towards their goals. 315 00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:26.740 That is great. And know in the book you talk about MTP, 316 00:20:26.380 --> 00:20:30.380 massively transformative purpose. Much as I could do who coined that, but I 317 00:20:30.700 --> 00:20:36.170 love that and at cothrive that's what we are all about, is helping people 318 00:20:36.170 --> 00:20:41.849 get clarity on and being driven by their purpose. But do you have would 319 00:20:41.890 --> 00:20:45.970 you have practical tips for for just forgetting that clarity and then, you know, 320 00:20:47.369 --> 00:20:51.160 reinforcing it kind of on to on a daily basis of like hey, 321 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:56.400 this is my mission, this is my purpose and this is why I'm pursuing 322 00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:59.799 what I'm pursuing and this is what helps keep me motivated and keeps momentum. 323 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:03.160 Like any practical test for eating that clarity and then in stealing it. Lots, 324 00:21:03.309 --> 00:21:08.069 yeah, lots of practical tips. Let me first say right now there's 325 00:21:08.109 --> 00:21:12.150 a popular documentary going on about Michael Jordan. Not sure if you've seen anything 326 00:21:12.150 --> 00:21:15.589 about that. I have recorded in Youtube TV, but I haven't started it 327 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:18.579 yet. Can't wait. Good, good, good, you'll love it. 328 00:21:18.099 --> 00:21:21.740 Last dance. So the only reason I bring this up real quick and then 329 00:21:21.740 --> 00:21:26.579 I'm going to talk about, you know, the key of creating or designing 330 00:21:26.660 --> 00:21:30.140 or defining your future self and then ultimately becoming that person. But why Michael 331 00:21:30.180 --> 00:21:33.569 Jordan is so important? Is this a lot of people have been debating about. 332 00:21:33.970 --> 00:21:37.609 If Michael Jordan was playing today, would he be just as good because 333 00:21:37.650 --> 00:21:41.009 he had a totally different game than how people have it today? Like people 334 00:21:41.210 --> 00:21:45.049 like right now in the NBA, like the three point shot is like all 335 00:21:45.170 --> 00:21:48.839 the rage and like back when Jordan played twenty two years ago, it wasn't 336 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.599 that way. It was a lot more physical game. Jordan never really he 337 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:56.519 didn't shoot very many threes. HMM. But people are talking about how, 338 00:21:56.599 --> 00:21:59.799 like, if Jordan was playing today, obviously he would have transferred his game 339 00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:03.589 over and he'd be freaking brilliant too threes. And they can say that with 340 00:22:03.710 --> 00:22:07.029 definitiveness because when he entered the game he had a horrible jump shot. I 341 00:22:07.109 --> 00:22:11.390 mean they really were worried about him because he didn't he didn't shoot very well. 342 00:22:11.430 --> 00:22:12.910 He was so athletic, but he just wasn't very good at shooting. 343 00:22:14.349 --> 00:22:17.339 By the time he left the league he was one of the most efficient shooters. 344 00:22:17.339 --> 00:22:21.940 I mean he was had such a high percentage because for Michael it wasn't 345 00:22:21.980 --> 00:22:26.339 about a specific process. He wasn't sticking to his game. He was so 346 00:22:26.619 --> 00:22:30.490 committed to winning, into his goal that he adapted his game to do whatever 347 00:22:30.690 --> 00:22:36.329 was required to win in that situation. So, like, taking that mindset, 348 00:22:36.849 --> 00:22:38.170 people are like, well, yeah, if Michael played today, in 349 00:22:38.289 --> 00:22:41.369 today's game, obviously he would probably be one of the best three point shooters, 350 00:22:41.410 --> 00:22:45.839 because that's how you went in today's MMM. Michael was committed to winning. 351 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:49.480 He wasn't committed to his strengths or weaknesses, the like fateful. Yeah, 352 00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:52.920 so they talked about how he, in order to become the best at 353 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.680 what he did, he had to turn a lot of his weaknesses into strings. 354 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.109 It wasn't just about focusing on what he thought was best. He was 355 00:23:00.269 --> 00:23:03.069 so committed to whatever his goal was, which in this case was to win 356 00:23:03.150 --> 00:23:07.269 championships, that he had to he had to change his game, he had 357 00:23:07.309 --> 00:23:11.349 to change his weaknesses, which were his shooting, things like that, into 358 00:23:11.470 --> 00:23:14.660 incredible strengths, which he did l reason I bring that up is just because, 359 00:23:14.779 --> 00:23:18.819 like it's important to realize and thinking about your your purpose, is that 360 00:23:18.980 --> 00:23:25.859 the goal really should sh what you do right in the in. This is 361 00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:27.849 the opposite of how most people look at it, because most people think that 362 00:23:29.009 --> 00:23:32.690 personality is like hardwired. I wouldn't say they really believe that, but that's 363 00:23:32.690 --> 00:23:36.369 kind of just traditional thinking. HMM. The ideas is that you just stick 364 00:23:36.410 --> 00:23:38.650 to your strengths, you just stick with what's comfortable to you. You know, 365 00:23:38.730 --> 00:23:41.920 your personality and your comforts own are the exact same thing. So it's 366 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.839 like, once you've discovered your personality. Just do the things that fit within 367 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:48.960 that you know, and there's no point in trying to be someone you're not. 368 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:53.559 But that's not how people like Michael Jordan think like. Instead, they 369 00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:59.029 commit to a goal and they let that gold change them so that they can 370 00:23:59.069 --> 00:24:02.390 achieve the goal. They have to change themselves in order to be serious about 371 00:24:02.390 --> 00:24:06.670 the goal. And so I love the idea of a massively transformative purpose, 372 00:24:06.710 --> 00:24:10.819 because the purpose should be the thing dictating what you do and who you become 373 00:24:11.420 --> 00:24:12.579 you, rather than saying this is who I am, so I'm going to 374 00:24:12.660 --> 00:24:18.460 just choose some purpose that fits with me. It's choosing a purpose that you 375 00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:22.339 really believe in or that you really want to do and then becoming the type 376 00:24:22.380 --> 00:24:26.049 of person that can create that. So, that said, I think basically 377 00:24:26.089 --> 00:24:30.089 the I a big important consideration. I think everyone listening to this could understand 378 00:24:30.130 --> 00:24:33.289 it. What they say. The number one regret that people have on their 379 00:24:33.329 --> 00:24:37.809 deathbed is that they didn't have the courage to be who they wanted to be. 380 00:24:37.890 --> 00:24:40.920 Instead, they lived up to the expectations of those around them. Yep, 381 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:45.039 and so taking that that, that's one of my personal biggest fear. 382 00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:48.559 That's been a momentating things there. So that's that's a that's a scary thought. 383 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:52.799 It is, it is, and it's easy to just kind of drip, 384 00:24:52.990 --> 00:24:55.710 you know, just kind of fall into the herd mentality because you don't, 385 00:24:55.910 --> 00:24:59.509 because it can require courage to step out of that zone. I mean 386 00:24:59.789 --> 00:25:02.710 even from like a religious standpoint, it could be current. It could take 387 00:25:02.789 --> 00:25:06.750 courage to say no to the crowd, but from a culture standpoint it can 388 00:25:06.789 --> 00:25:11.660 say it can take courage to say no, this isn't really working for me. 389 00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:15.539 Or when you're with your peer group, I mean Peer Group predicts personality 390 00:25:15.619 --> 00:25:19.940 huge and so all that's to say you have to decide who you want to 391 00:25:21.099 --> 00:25:26.170 be and if you don't, you're going to regret your life and also, 392 00:25:26.529 --> 00:25:30.170 if you don't, you're going to be living up to the expectations, in 393 00:25:30.250 --> 00:25:33.970 the norms of those around you and you're going to be internally frustrated. It 394 00:25:33.329 --> 00:25:37.039 takes courage, though it's I mean you it takes courage, but the first 395 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:41.880 real step, honestly, is just defining your future identity, defining your future 396 00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:45.160 stuff. I think two to three years out is good enough. Who Do 397 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:47.079 you want to be in two to three years? What are the situate? 398 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:51.309 Are the circumstances? What are your characteristics? What's your situation? I mean, 399 00:25:51.349 --> 00:25:53.230 it's really just goal setting, one hundred and one, but it's really 400 00:25:53.309 --> 00:25:56.670 defining it as the person you want to be, the circumstances you want to 401 00:25:56.710 --> 00:26:00.349 have, the characteristics you want to have. After you've taken the time to 402 00:26:00.430 --> 00:26:04.859 define that, which is essentially just defining your future self, then you need 403 00:26:04.980 --> 00:26:08.779 to make that be the story that you tell to people about who you are, 404 00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:14.259 rather than overly defining yourself based on your current self and saying this is 405 00:26:14.539 --> 00:26:17.460 who I am. You start telling people about where you want to go, 406 00:26:18.019 --> 00:26:21.009 you start telling people about your goals, and that takes a lot of courage, 407 00:26:21.009 --> 00:26:25.410 but it also is authentic. It's honest, and when you start telling 408 00:26:25.410 --> 00:26:29.930 people about who you want to be, it clarifies your environment, because then 409 00:26:30.450 --> 00:26:33.480 people can see to the extent you're actually doing it or not. They can 410 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:37.799 also encourage you to get there, or they may discourage you from going for 411 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:42.160 that, which also clarifies your environment, because they may not support you and 412 00:26:42.279 --> 00:26:45.839 going that direction. They may really want you to stay the person you are 413 00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:49.630 so that they don't have to change right and so it's not comfortable from them 414 00:26:49.670 --> 00:26:53.069 either. But once you start telling people about your goals, and I would 415 00:26:53.069 --> 00:26:56.230 challenge to tell everyone about them, Yep, then you start to feel out 416 00:26:56.230 --> 00:27:00.710 more accountable to those goals and you start to behave in that direction. The 417 00:27:00.789 --> 00:27:03.380 other big challenge I would have you to do is to start investing money into 418 00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:08.140 your goals, into education, mentoring or experiences that would allow you to become 419 00:27:08.180 --> 00:27:11.619 that person. When you invest money into into your future identity, you start 420 00:27:11.619 --> 00:27:15.220 to commit to that identity, you start to believe it, it starts to 421 00:27:15.259 --> 00:27:18.930 become the way you see yourself. Nope, the reason this is super important, 422 00:27:18.089 --> 00:27:22.410 as just a last thought, if you're clear on your future self, 423 00:27:22.130 --> 00:27:26.930 then you can live intentionally today. If you're not clear on your future self, 424 00:27:26.970 --> 00:27:30.519 then you're going to live unconsciously today, which means that you're literally on 425 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:33.640 autopilot, being the person you were yesterday, and you're basically a product of 426 00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.839 your current environment. And so the only way to live intentionally and even courageously, 427 00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:42.039 which is the way to learn, is to actually have a future self 428 00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:48.109 in mind, which then your daily process and your daily education experience transforms you 429 00:27:48.230 --> 00:27:53.029 into that person, rather than just doing something for tenzero hours or living the 430 00:27:53.069 --> 00:27:57.619 same day over and over you're actually turning your days in your life into growth. 431 00:27:59.380 --> 00:28:02.819 Love that. Hopefully we can, if you didn't catch all that, 432 00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:06.660 back it up a little bit. Listen again. Love that and one of 433 00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:10.500 the things that I really resonated with them when you're talking about how like it 434 00:28:10.660 --> 00:28:12.730 easy it is to kind of equate our current personality and what the and what 435 00:28:12.890 --> 00:28:18.089 the test tells us that that really ends up being our comfort zone in so 436 00:28:18.170 --> 00:28:22.930 many ways. In one of the overarching things that we like to teach is 437 00:28:22.690 --> 00:28:27.240 growth and comfort do not co exist. And and not just that, but 438 00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:32.720 honestly, fulfillment and comfort do not co exist. And so if you really 439 00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:37.400 if you really want to grow, if you really want to be fulfilled, 440 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:41.029 to feel like you lived out your purpose and not get to your get to 441 00:28:41.069 --> 00:28:45.829 your death bed and have that sort of regret, it takes getting out of 442 00:28:45.910 --> 00:28:51.029 your comfort zone and it takes getting out of that kind of define box that 443 00:28:51.230 --> 00:28:55.900 that does feel so feel, so normal and usual, and I love I 444 00:28:56.059 --> 00:29:00.859 love your bits about environments. Super Important who we surround ourselves with, and 445 00:29:00.539 --> 00:29:07.779 as leaders we have an opportunity to create that environment for our absolutely and so 446 00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:12.569 it's really important that we're creating an environment that is intentionally stimulating and challenge and 447 00:29:12.609 --> 00:29:17.809 not comfortable. We will people to feel welcome, absolutely, but we want 448 00:29:17.849 --> 00:29:25.000 people to feel challenged empowered to actually shape their future self. So really, 449 00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:29.160 really great stuff there and a lot that we can take away as individuals but 450 00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:33.160 also as leaders for our teams. How can we create these sort of environments 451 00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:37.039 that that get the most out of our people? And one that I don't 452 00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:41.670 know if you've heard this that been but a Mackenzie study has found that superior 453 00:29:41.869 --> 00:29:49.309 talent is up to eight times more productive than then average talent. So the 454 00:29:49.430 --> 00:29:52.099 question for us is, how do we tap into that? So some of 455 00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:56.140 that is there're certain people that we can find that are already really talented folks, 456 00:29:56.220 --> 00:30:02.380 but the reality of it is there's people have potential as they are. 457 00:30:02.980 --> 00:30:06.500 We just have to help unlock that. And so, from a from a 458 00:30:06.740 --> 00:30:11.170 productivity perspective, even if we're thinking that way, the bottom line we should 459 00:30:11.170 --> 00:30:15.329 be so motivated to create environments that absolutely get the most out of people, 460 00:30:15.410 --> 00:30:22.119 that unleash their potential and that really multiply the intelligence and the skills that they 461 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:25.599 have within them. So really, really good stuff there. Question for you. 462 00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:27.920 I wanted to kind of clarifying get your thoughts on. Is there a 463 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:32.920 place for personality test? Is there a way that we should be using them, 464 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.509 that we should be kind of assessing folks? How would you recommend that 465 00:30:36.589 --> 00:30:41.589 companies in particular think about assessing where someone is, their strengths, their weaknesses, 466 00:30:41.309 --> 00:30:45.430 what's healthy what's not? I wouldn't use personality tests like Myers Briggs. 467 00:30:45.470 --> 00:30:49.980 There's so many other ways and tests that are more valuable, that are actually 468 00:30:51.019 --> 00:30:55.980 psychologically and scientifically sound. So like personality tests, like Myers Briggs, I 469 00:30:56.099 --> 00:30:57.859 don't think that there's a place for those types of tests. They're bad science 470 00:30:57.940 --> 00:31:03.500 and they're bad ways to define people. There are plenty of measures that you 471 00:31:03.619 --> 00:31:07.650 can use which would be very powerful. Like even just measuring someone's grit as 472 00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:11.250 an example, would be a great I mean, I'm not even the biggest 473 00:31:11.250 --> 00:31:15.250 fan of that, but that would be better than studying the Myers brigs like 474 00:31:15.410 --> 00:31:18.200 set, studying someone's confidence, so their psychological flexibility. I mean there's so 475 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:23.000 many dimensions of a person you can study, not perfectly, but there's better, 476 00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:26.000 better ways. If I mean even someone's compassion or their empathy. I 477 00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:30.839 mean you can study these things and so like why would you? Why wouldn't 478 00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:37.109 you study valuable characteristics rather than just some honestly Hokey test that puts someone into 479 00:31:37.150 --> 00:31:38.630 a category? And so I think that, you know, there are really 480 00:31:38.710 --> 00:31:44.509 great batteries of tools and tests that you can use to study someone's efficacy or 481 00:31:44.549 --> 00:31:48.380 their intelligence or their learning ability or their adaptability, their social skills. I 482 00:31:48.420 --> 00:31:53.140 mean, you can study these things in a scientific way versus these really kind 483 00:31:53.180 --> 00:31:57.539 of bad scientifically test that just put people into a category and then you assume 484 00:31:57.539 --> 00:32:00.099 that that category explains the person. So yeah, I mean I think that 485 00:32:00.180 --> 00:32:05.250 there's great ways to assess people and there's lots of great tests to do so 486 00:32:05.930 --> 00:32:08.009 great. How do you think about shrinks and weaknesses? So for somebody who's 487 00:32:08.049 --> 00:32:13.369 like, you know what, I know that I'm just innately, they might 488 00:32:13.410 --> 00:32:16.799 use that term. I'm innately not good at XYZ. But you know what, 489 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:20.279 I also recognize, this is one of the things we focus on a 490 00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:23.960 lot with cothrive and the people we work with. I also can recognize that 491 00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:30.309 I'm actually innately gifted at certain things, and so what I want to do 492 00:32:30.470 --> 00:32:35.109 is really x on the things that come natural to me, that I'm that 493 00:32:35.150 --> 00:32:38.029 I'm really gifted that and I don't want to focus as much on the things 494 00:32:38.109 --> 00:32:43.309 that that I'm not as good at naturally, but more so just from like 495 00:32:43.390 --> 00:32:47.420 a strategic kind of perspective, assuming that they again they've done the work to 496 00:32:47.539 --> 00:32:52.660 map out their future self and their goals with with their goals clearly in mind. 497 00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:54.740 Is there a place for that? To recognize that, hey, there's 498 00:32:54.740 --> 00:32:58.140 some things that come natural to me, that I'm get to that some things 499 00:32:58.180 --> 00:33:01.009 that I'm really just not that good at, and I'm going to focus on 500 00:33:01.089 --> 00:33:05.009 the things that I'm going to try to bring out even more the things that 501 00:33:05.049 --> 00:33:07.329 I'm naturally gift to that. I think there's some place for that. But 502 00:33:08.210 --> 00:33:14.599 sometimes your purpose requires you, you know, the purpose that you decide upon 503 00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:19.119 and fill and really strongly about forces you to go away from that type of 504 00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:22.079 thinking. You know, just as an example, you know, you may 505 00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:27.269 think I'm a great writer. I have zero I was not a great writer 506 00:33:27.390 --> 00:33:30.349 a few years ago. It's not like this is a natural skill and I 507 00:33:30.390 --> 00:33:34.750 will tell you it's probably the hardest thing I do. Like writing this book, 508 00:33:35.190 --> 00:33:37.589 the one we're talking about right now, was a year and a half 509 00:33:37.630 --> 00:33:42.019 of hell. I'm serious, like there were such a good example. No, 510 00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:45.700 I'm telling you, it sucked writing this book and I wrote who not 511 00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:49.579 how and I went on and I got super sick doing it. Like who 512 00:33:49.660 --> 00:33:51.900 not, how's the booth. The camera comes out in October. I had 513 00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:55.690 such a tight deadline that in righting this book I got extremely sick because I 514 00:33:55.890 --> 00:34:00.490 was I had to get so much mentoring and coaching through it to my like, 515 00:34:00.970 --> 00:34:04.009 you know, as far and so like. That's one example. Another 516 00:34:04.049 --> 00:34:07.890 example is one of my when my wife and I became foster parents of three 517 00:34:07.930 --> 00:34:10.920 kids. I avoided home for the first year because I had to kind of 518 00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:15.199 come to the grips of if I really wanted to do this my future self. 519 00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:17.719 The person I envisioned, you know, back five years ago, was 520 00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:22.559 like yeah, I value the idea of being a good dad, I value 521 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:28.070 the idea of being a patient, loving, compassionate person, but when you 522 00:34:28.230 --> 00:34:32.309 actually it's really easy to think you're a good person when when you're not necessarily 523 00:34:32.469 --> 00:34:36.750 tested, HMM, but when you know. So I assumed I was a 524 00:34:36.829 --> 00:34:39.900 really patient person and tell you, give me three kids with behavioral issues and 525 00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:44.300 then I really realized, Oh, maybe I'm not as patient as I thought 526 00:34:44.300 --> 00:34:49.260 I was. It's really easy when the circumstances are, you know, right 527 00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:54.730 in your favor, but when we became foster parents, it was and continues 528 00:34:54.929 --> 00:35:00.769 to be, you know, extremely difficult, but yet extremely purposeful. And 529 00:35:00.769 --> 00:35:02.369 I will say I'm not the same person I was three to five years ago 530 00:35:02.369 --> 00:35:06.530 and we start of this journey. I do have a lot more compassion and 531 00:35:06.610 --> 00:35:10.760 empathy, I do have better perspectives than I did before this situation and I'm 532 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:14.960 definitely from a measure to gain, not the gap perspective, I'm definitely a 533 00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:19.280 better person than I was ten years or, if four, five years ago. 534 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:23.550 My kids are different people, and so I guess my belief. Obviously, 535 00:35:23.590 --> 00:35:28.789 we have strengths, we have gifts, etc. I think that those 536 00:35:28.829 --> 00:35:31.789 things ultimately are chosen. I think that we choose these things and ultimately, 537 00:35:32.429 --> 00:35:38.179 when you choose upon a transformative purpose, that sometimes encourages you to develop aspects 538 00:35:38.260 --> 00:35:43.019 that you would consider weaknesses, Indus strengths. And that's not to say that 539 00:35:43.059 --> 00:35:45.420 you should just go for your weaknesses. Instead, it's to ask yourself, 540 00:35:45.500 --> 00:35:50.610 what does the situation demand? Right, what does your purpose demand, rather 541 00:35:50.690 --> 00:35:52.969 than just saying this is what's comfortable. I think that that's kind of the 542 00:35:53.050 --> 00:35:58.489 traditional view of personality is that you've got these tendencies, of these traits and 543 00:35:58.610 --> 00:36:01.489 you should just lean with that. That's why it's your your comfort zone, 544 00:36:01.889 --> 00:36:07.239 and you should ignore what's painful and you should pursue what's pleasurable. I think 545 00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:12.559 when you decide upon a purpose that's big and powerful and meaningful, you stop 546 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:15.360 asking those questions. It's goes back to Michael Jordan. What is the take 547 00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:20.070 to fulfill the purpose? If you have to learn the jump shot, you 548 00:36:20.269 --> 00:36:22.909 do. You take the jump shot, even if you suck at the jump 549 00:36:22.909 --> 00:36:24.550 shot and don't want it. You're going to take a million jump shots because 550 00:36:24.550 --> 00:36:27.909 that's what's required to win and you're going to get really good at it. 551 00:36:28.150 --> 00:36:30.670 I mean, I loved all the conversations about Michael Jord. Kausey do talk 552 00:36:30.670 --> 00:36:34.860 about how he turned any weakness he had into a strength if that was required 553 00:36:34.900 --> 00:36:37.260 to win. And so I think I think kind of how I view things, 554 00:36:37.300 --> 00:36:40.500 that I view it more of a process of learning. I could learn 555 00:36:40.579 --> 00:36:44.099 to become a good leader if that's what my goal requires me to be. 556 00:36:44.179 --> 00:36:46.530 I can learn to become a great writer if I decide that to purpose worth 557 00:36:46.610 --> 00:36:51.210 pursuing. I can learn to become a good father, a compassionate human being. 558 00:36:51.570 --> 00:36:53.730 If I believe that that's what I couldn't should be doing with my life, 559 00:36:53.969 --> 00:36:58.929 that's that's awesome and honestly, hearing you talk through that, I think 560 00:36:58.929 --> 00:37:02.079 I think the big takeaway there is the most important thing, and you mentioned 561 00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:07.400 in the beginning base, the starting point is defining and envisioning. What is 562 00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:12.159 that purpose? What is that future self that you're aspiring towards? And then 563 00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.360 once you once you kind of have that mapped out and you can kind of 564 00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:19.269 have clarity there, it's determining. Okay, what's that committed? Are you? 565 00:37:19.949 --> 00:37:22.590 Well, how committed are you? But what's necessary to get there? 566 00:37:22.670 --> 00:37:24.989 Right? So, yeah, if it requires for you it obviously, it 567 00:37:25.110 --> 00:37:29.110 obviously ended up requiring that. Hey, I'm going to have to write some 568 00:37:29.230 --> 00:37:34.539 stuff right and that manual gifting right, and you want, you wanted to 569 00:37:34.579 --> 00:37:37.980 be that right, and so the person who you wanted to be required that. 570 00:37:37.300 --> 00:37:39.500 And so to me that's that's the filter. I guess that we look 571 00:37:39.539 --> 00:37:43.659 at that on is like we don't have to necessarily go after all of our 572 00:37:43.699 --> 00:37:47.250 weaknesses, but we have to do is the ones that are necessary, that 573 00:37:47.489 --> 00:37:52.690 the traits the the character traits especially. We always say you can ignore weakness 574 00:37:52.769 --> 00:37:54.889 of character. That's something that you always should be, should be aware of 575 00:37:55.090 --> 00:37:59.039 and actively looking to close. But, we guess, is a skill. 576 00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:01.199 All is a little bit different. But when, when it's something that is 577 00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:07.360 a prerequisite to achieving your goal and achieving your future self, that's those are 578 00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:13.309 the weaknesses that you have to tackle. And another plug for one of for 579 00:38:13.429 --> 00:38:16.630 one of your pieces that I love is around the growth first limited mindset and 580 00:38:17.150 --> 00:38:22.469 transitioning from I'm not a good rider to I'm not a good writer yet, 581 00:38:22.150 --> 00:38:25.630 but I'm getting there right and and I will get there. And it takes 582 00:38:25.670 --> 00:38:29.780 commitment, it takes courage. I think the important, important takeaway from me 583 00:38:30.059 --> 00:38:35.940 is understand where you're going and what it requires. And there are no excuses 584 00:38:36.019 --> 00:38:37.860 when it comes to I'm just not good at that. If it's require for 585 00:38:37.900 --> 00:38:40.690 your future self, you've got it. You've got to get there and you 586 00:38:40.769 --> 00:38:46.809 can. Yeah, and also it kind of redefines happiness, like, as 587 00:38:46.889 --> 00:38:51.530 you said, you can't be satisfied or joyful for you're not taking on challenges 588 00:38:51.650 --> 00:38:55.639 like that's another thing that Victor frounkell talks heavily about is that happiness is something 589 00:38:55.679 --> 00:39:00.880 that cannot be pursued directly. The only way you can have happiness is as 590 00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:06.960 an unintended byproduct of pursuing a goal above your current self. Like you need 591 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:09.989 a purpose, often a challenging purpose. So Dan Sullivan, he's the founder 592 00:39:09.989 --> 00:39:15.510 of Strategic Coach, really good coaching companybody says the bigger the future, the 593 00:39:15.630 --> 00:39:17.510 better the present. The bigger the future the better, because when you have 594 00:39:17.550 --> 00:39:22.829 a big future which is meaningful and exciting, then your present process is a 595 00:39:22.909 --> 00:39:27.900 lot better than if you're just living daytoday. Now, that present process isn't 596 00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:31.900 necessarily enjoyable in the idea that you're not doing anything or that you're not learning 597 00:39:31.940 --> 00:39:36.059 or that you're not falling flat on your face, but your life becomes a 598 00:39:36.099 --> 00:39:42.250 lot more powerful and satisfying and transformative, which is the way to being happy 599 00:39:42.449 --> 00:39:46.730 and watching yourself accomplish things and grueling through things and even serving and helping people 600 00:39:46.969 --> 00:39:53.519 and watching your life becomes a lot more purposeful and happy versus momentarily pleasurable. 601 00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:58.519 So kind of, I think, pulling this together. Pulling this together. 602 00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:04.480 The premise of this book is that if you believe your personality is innate and 603 00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:07.750 that it's non changeable, then your goals that you set are the byproduct of 604 00:40:07.869 --> 00:40:14.469 your personality. You set goals that reinforce your current personality. Your personality becomes 605 00:40:14.469 --> 00:40:17.389 the basis of your goals. Yep, but when you take the growth mindset 606 00:40:17.469 --> 00:40:22.539 more seriously and having a sense of purpose, then, rather than your goals 607 00:40:22.659 --> 00:40:27.500 being the by product of your personality, you reverse that and your personality becomes 608 00:40:27.539 --> 00:40:31.099 the by product of your goals. And that's really the goal of this book, 609 00:40:31.420 --> 00:40:37.289 is to help you realize that you can set goals and aims, things 610 00:40:37.289 --> 00:40:40.090 that you want, and you can become the type of person that has those. 611 00:40:42.010 --> 00:40:45.050 Yes, it will not be easy. Yes, it'll take courage. 612 00:40:45.050 --> 00:40:49.849 Yes, it will require you to not be consistent with the person you've been 613 00:40:49.849 --> 00:40:52.159 in the past. You're gonna have to let go of a lot of the 614 00:40:52.280 --> 00:40:55.000 things and limitations that you've viewed from your path. You probably have to reframe 615 00:40:55.119 --> 00:41:00.480 and reshape your story. You might have to forgive some people who have hurt 616 00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:04.309 you're gonna have to let go of the story that you've been telling to justify 617 00:41:04.469 --> 00:41:07.949 your current weaknesses and instead you're going to commit to a future that you really 618 00:41:08.070 --> 00:41:12.550 want and you're going to become courageous to that and you're going to watch yourself 619 00:41:12.670 --> 00:41:15.469 transform and you're going to start to live a really exciting life. And this 620 00:41:15.590 --> 00:41:20.420 is how you start to develop flexibility and confidence which allows you to take on 621 00:41:20.579 --> 00:41:23.619 bigger and bigger challenges and do more and more meaningful things. And I'll just 622 00:41:23.699 --> 00:41:28.059 say when my when my parents got divorced, when I was like an eleven 623 00:41:28.099 --> 00:41:31.059 year old kid, it was hell to like have my father become an extreme 624 00:41:31.139 --> 00:41:36.690 drug addict for my life, to lose all sense of stability. But you 625 00:41:36.809 --> 00:41:39.929 know, I would not be able to deal with a lot of the complexities 626 00:41:39.929 --> 00:41:44.690 I now choose to deal with had I not gone through that experience. And 627 00:41:44.889 --> 00:41:49.840 so like, yes, in the moment it sucks, but you should always 628 00:41:49.960 --> 00:41:52.519 view challenges. You can either look at it one way or another. It's 629 00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:57.239 either happening to you or it happened for you, and that's how I view 630 00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:00.199 my past, is that all of that stuff happened for me. It was 631 00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:05.829 an incredibly love the it was a very big educational process. My father is 632 00:42:05.989 --> 00:42:08.190 no longer a villain in my past. He's a hero from my past. 633 00:42:08.269 --> 00:42:12.510 He's overcome a lot of his challenges. He and I are completely great friends, 634 00:42:13.150 --> 00:42:17.300 and so you can use challenges and you can see that they happened for 635 00:42:17.460 --> 00:42:20.500 you. They can be the things that help you get where you want to 636 00:42:20.579 --> 00:42:24.260 go, rather than just that these negative things have occurred in your life and 637 00:42:24.340 --> 00:42:28.980 therefore you're limited as a result. So this is just a book that invites 638 00:42:29.019 --> 00:42:34.690 you to question those limitations and to question how you're currently defining yourself, and 639 00:42:34.730 --> 00:42:37.929 it's placing the emphasis on the future, your future self being far more important 640 00:42:37.929 --> 00:42:42.449 than your current self, and that your future self could actually and should be 641 00:42:42.489 --> 00:42:45.679 the basis for how you act in the present. Amen. Love that. 642 00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:50.880 That's a great summary of the book and I'll just add. I think one 643 00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:53.639 of the things that gives the books so much credibility is your personal story, 644 00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:58.590 and so when people hear more of that and they see that, oh, 645 00:42:58.670 --> 00:43:00.829 it's not like from the outside looking in, seeing where you are today, 646 00:43:00.909 --> 00:43:05.309 people may say, Oh, it's really easy for for they to say that, 647 00:43:06.070 --> 00:43:07.789 easy for to say that like, come on, look, look, 648 00:43:07.869 --> 00:43:12.110 look at where he is, but just to hear your story, to know 649 00:43:12.269 --> 00:43:15.219 your story and to see that, hey, this is not just some theoretical 650 00:43:15.300 --> 00:43:19.739 stuff for you that you learned while you did your PhD in psychology. This 651 00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:24.980 is something that you lived and and so that's honestly, was was hugely awesotted. 652 00:43:25.019 --> 00:43:28.530 Not every psychologist sees it this way. You know what I mean? 653 00:43:28.570 --> 00:43:30.730 I might. I've had to go through a lot of change in my view 654 00:43:31.130 --> 00:43:35.769 of people and potential. Is just based on where I'm at now. If 655 00:43:35.769 --> 00:43:37.130 you ask me these questions three or four years from now, probably have a 656 00:43:37.130 --> 00:43:42.920 different question at different answer. But I see things the way I do for 657 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:45.199 a lot of different reason. Obviously I've done a huge amount of study, 658 00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:49.079 but I've gone through a lot of experiences and I also have goals that allow 659 00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:51.800 me to see things this way as well. So I know a lot of 660 00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:54.829 psychologists that honestly have a fixed mindset about themselves and about others, you know, 661 00:43:54.949 --> 00:43:59.710 and so it's interesting. Yeah, that's this is great. A Lot, 662 00:43:59.869 --> 00:44:02.550 lots of great nuggets for US personally. Again, that's what got me 663 00:44:02.630 --> 00:44:07.150 so far up reading, reading this book. But then there's lots of good 664 00:44:07.190 --> 00:44:10.619 things for us as leaders to take away to our organizations in the way that 665 00:44:10.699 --> 00:44:15.539 we look at our own people, their own their potential, in the environments 666 00:44:15.579 --> 00:44:20.619 that we create, in the way that we help them pursue their transformative purpose 667 00:44:21.260 --> 00:44:24.250 and the way that we help them pursue their future self. So really great 668 00:44:24.289 --> 00:44:28.650 stuff. We usually wrap up our interviews been with a few standard questions, 669 00:44:28.769 --> 00:44:31.250 so it want to hit you with these two. What is your why? 670 00:44:31.610 --> 00:44:36.889 What motivates you back to kind of that that personal transformative purpose for you? 671 00:44:37.489 --> 00:44:40.159 What does that look like for Ben Hardy? Yeah, I can answer to 672 00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:45.199 question many different ways. Obviously, my why in many ways as my wife, 673 00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:50.400 my kids, my faith in God, but I also do have kind 674 00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:52.150 of a more specific why, you know, and it kind of, I 675 00:44:52.230 --> 00:44:54.590 think, ties to your next question because you kind of already told me the 676 00:44:54.630 --> 00:44:59.550 questions. I think with the big hairy audacious goal, but right now, 677 00:44:59.670 --> 00:45:02.989 you know, I think your purpose is also specific. Like I do have 678 00:45:04.070 --> 00:45:07.300 a purpose of positioning my life so that I can actually transition. I do 679 00:45:07.380 --> 00:45:10.179 a lot of entrepreneurial activity, a lot of collaborations. I'm going to keep 680 00:45:10.179 --> 00:45:15.699 writing books, but I actually so. I served it to your mission about 681 00:45:15.699 --> 00:45:17.579 ten years ago this little longer. I got home about ten years ago. 682 00:45:17.619 --> 00:45:22.050 That that experience really changed me as a person and I really love that audience. 683 00:45:22.090 --> 00:45:25.369 I love missionaries, Young missionaries, who are out serving and just doing 684 00:45:25.409 --> 00:45:29.929 good work. And so I actually want to go back to doing that, 685 00:45:30.090 --> 00:45:32.329 but more in a leadership capacity. And so I want to position my life 686 00:45:32.329 --> 00:45:36.760 so that I can spend way more time on that versus what I'm doing now. 687 00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:38.079 Although I love what I'm doing now, I really like the idea that 688 00:45:38.119 --> 00:45:42.719 what got you here won't get you there, and so I want to get 689 00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:45.480 my life to a space financially and in other ways, and that includes myself 690 00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:50.190 as a person, my character, my spirituality, my leadership skills. I'm 691 00:45:50.230 --> 00:45:52.309 not yet who I need to be in my future to do what I want 692 00:45:52.349 --> 00:45:54.550 to do. It's not only is it a financial thing that I want to 693 00:45:54.590 --> 00:45:58.590 get myself in the position of it also as a person. I may even 694 00:45:58.670 --> 00:46:00.349 even need to learn new languages. You know, I'm not yet that person, 695 00:46:00.469 --> 00:46:02.789 but I want to get myself in a position about the next two or 696 00:46:02.829 --> 00:46:07.500 three years that I can spend almost all my time helping missionaries and kind of 697 00:46:07.659 --> 00:46:12.940 the way to do that for myself. The process, I'm pretty committed to 698 00:46:12.940 --> 00:46:16.260 selling about ten million copies at this book as a permanent speak it. Yeah, 699 00:46:16.340 --> 00:46:19.530 so that's what I'm going to do, because that's really the thing that's 700 00:46:19.530 --> 00:46:22.010 going to get me in the situation in the position to do it. So 701 00:46:22.409 --> 00:46:25.210 that's really kind of my big hair audacious gold. The reason why behind the 702 00:46:25.329 --> 00:46:30.250 goal because of my future self as someone helping, as a missionary leader in 703 00:46:30.329 --> 00:46:32.519 many forms, and also just that more spiritual side of work, which, 704 00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:36.880 I'm sorry I'll continue to write pop press books like this, but yeah, 705 00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:38.559 I'm going to sell ten million cops of this book in the next few years. 706 00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:43.800 So I love it that my future self is doing that kind of stuff 707 00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:45.960 because that's that's where I want to be spending my time and focusing my energy 708 00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:51.789 and attention, which are limited capacity things. That is that is very cool, 709 00:46:51.949 --> 00:46:54.630 very very inspiring. What book or person has influenced you the most? 710 00:46:55.150 --> 00:46:59.309 Another I know there's a ton you you should you shared to feel already, 711 00:46:59.349 --> 00:47:04.019 but if you had to choose one book or person influence you in your leadership 712 00:47:04.099 --> 00:47:07.780 the most, what would you what would you go with? Probably the person 713 00:47:07.860 --> 00:47:12.380 who's directly influence me the most is probably my grandfather rex. He's dead now 714 00:47:12.699 --> 00:47:15.570 but like he died at age ninety four and he was just he was very 715 00:47:15.730 --> 00:47:21.170 influential for me, like he was the guiding star for me when, like, 716 00:47:21.289 --> 00:47:23.730 everything fell apart when I was growing up. As far as books, 717 00:47:24.530 --> 00:47:29.289 there's so many, you know. I mean aside from like religious texts. 718 00:47:29.690 --> 00:47:34.000 I really I don't know, just because there's it. I mean it's constantly 719 00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:37.119 changing. I'll say there's a few good books that I would recommend to people. 720 00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:40.719 Now, you ask me that question enough five months and it'll be a 721 00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:45.469 different answer. But the books that really I think a really important one is 722 00:47:45.550 --> 00:47:47.989 called the body keeps the score. Really Important Book. That book is the 723 00:47:49.070 --> 00:47:51.750 reason I wrote this book. I read that book in two thousand and eighteen 724 00:47:51.789 --> 00:47:53.349 interst triggered me to write this books. That books called the body keeps the 725 00:47:53.389 --> 00:47:57.670 score. It's kind of the definitive book on trauma and you know, we 726 00:47:57.750 --> 00:47:59.900 didn't even get into it in this book, but trauma is really one of 727 00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:02.460 the big things that shapes people's personality. So that books really big. There's 728 00:48:02.460 --> 00:48:07.380 another book called too soon, old, too late, smart, really good 729 00:48:07.460 --> 00:48:08.659 book. Yeah, I think I'll just leave it at that. I've got 730 00:48:08.699 --> 00:48:13.210 a number on my on my list now thanks to this conversation. So the 731 00:48:13.570 --> 00:48:16.449 final question is, how can our listeners find you? You only are you 732 00:48:16.530 --> 00:48:20.929 on linkedin active, I know your own medium. Yeah, I mean I'm 733 00:48:20.969 --> 00:48:22.530 on Linkedin and stuff, but I think the easiest and best way to find 734 00:48:22.570 --> 00:48:27.199 me is Benjamin Hardycom. You know, I've got my website there. I've 735 00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:30.679 got my blogs. They're honestly if you go there you'll notice that if you 736 00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:35.920 buy personalities and permanent and plug in your information on to my website, you 737 00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:39.079 can get access to all sorts of free materials. I have an online course. 738 00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:43.630 I have an online course that takes people through the book, goes through 739 00:48:43.630 --> 00:48:45.630 all the exercises. I mean, one of the things about this book there's 740 00:48:45.630 --> 00:48:47.429 about a hundred and fifty journal prompts throughout this book to help you kind of 741 00:48:47.469 --> 00:48:52.110 refree informer experiences also to design your future stuff. Love the so there's an 742 00:48:52.110 --> 00:48:54.389 online course that takes you through the course or through the book. There's a 743 00:48:54.389 --> 00:48:59.179 journaling course which over tenzero people have bought, just explaining how to use your 744 00:48:59.219 --> 00:49:01.420 journal and specific and strategic ways, and then there's also a course for anyone 745 00:49:01.420 --> 00:49:06.300 who's looking to be a content creator breaking down the strategies I've used to have 746 00:49:06.380 --> 00:49:08.619 over a hundred million people read my blogs. I also give away my book. 747 00:49:08.659 --> 00:49:13.010 Proposal for will power doesn't work if anyone's actually looking to be an officer 748 00:49:13.050 --> 00:49:15.489 super cool. So I mean I just kind of give away all these things 749 00:49:15.489 --> 00:49:19.969 for free for anyone who buys the book. But Benjamin Harrycom is kind of 750 00:49:20.050 --> 00:49:24.320 the hub. Awesome, fantastic. Well, really appreciate the time that they've 751 00:49:24.360 --> 00:49:30.239 been the pleasure going through this with you and inspiring hearing more about kind of 752 00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:35.039 your personal why and I think again, a lot of a lot of great 753 00:49:35.079 --> 00:49:38.909 content for our for our audience, as again personally, but also for the 754 00:49:39.389 --> 00:49:44.909 organizations and for the cultures that we help lead and create. So really good 755 00:49:44.949 --> 00:49:47.510 stuff and look forward to hopefully chatting again soon with your next book. I 756 00:49:47.630 --> 00:49:52.590 think, yeah, that book may even actually be more relevant, but I 757 00:49:52.860 --> 00:49:54.420 can't wait. I'm going to be check on my unbox. Can't wait to 758 00:49:54.619 --> 00:49:58.059 can't wait to get it. Awesome, mental as a pleasure. Thank you, 759 00:49:58.099 --> 00:50:02.260 Blake. All right, take care of him. Is Your Company winning 760 00:50:02.300 --> 00:50:07.690 the talent battle? Are Your high potential leaders as engaged and effective as they 761 00:50:07.730 --> 00:50:12.010 could be? COTHRIVE helps companies, like your words, develop effective, mission 762 00:50:12.010 --> 00:50:16.690 driven leaders who are actually connected and committed to your company by using collective leadership 763 00:50:16.730 --> 00:50:22.599 development through innovative mastermind growth groups. Discover the growth group advantage and request a 764 00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:29.559 live growth group Demo for your leadership team by visiting COTHRIVECCO. That's Cothrive with 765 00:50:29.639 --> 00:50:37.829 a why not? I DOT COO. I hate it when podcasts incessantly ask 766 00:50:37.909 --> 00:50:40.349 their listeners for reviews, but I get why they do it, because reviews 767 00:50:40.389 --> 00:50:45.230 are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's what 768 00:50:45.269 --> 00:50:47.110 we decided to do. If you leave a review for be to be growth 769 00:50:47.190 --> 00:50:52.860 and apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review to James At sweetfish 770 00:50:52.900 --> 00:50:55.739 Mediacom, I'll send you a signed copy of my new book, content based 771 00:50:55.820 --> 00:51:00.420 networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. We get 772 00:51:00.460 --> 00:51:02.019 a review, you get a free book. We both win.