Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:04.240 And often, you know, we choose to disagree with their reality. Customer 2 00:00:04.280 --> 00:00:09.310 or something like that. Was Really happened? Productive, kind of, because 3 00:00:09.310 --> 00:00:13.109 their reality is the reality, their perception is their reception, is their experience. 4 00:00:14.949 --> 00:00:18.910 A relationship with the right referral partner could be a game changer for any 5 00:00:18.989 --> 00:00:23.739 BEDB company. So what if you could reverse engineer these relationships at a moment's 6 00:00:23.780 --> 00:00:29.300 notice, start a podcast, invite potential referral partners to be guests on your 7 00:00:29.379 --> 00:00:34.939 show and grow your referral network faster than ever. Learn more at sweet fish 8 00:00:35.020 --> 00:00:44.369 Mediacom. You're listening to be tob growth, a daily podcast for B TOB 9 00:00:44.490 --> 00:00:48.609 leaders. We've interviewed names you've probably heard before, like Gary Vannerd truck and 10 00:00:48.649 --> 00:00:52.439 Simon Senek, but you've probably never heard from the majority of our guests. 11 00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:57.880 That's because the bulk of our interviews aren't with professional speakers and authors. Most 12 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:00.520 of our guests are in the trenches, leading sales and marketing teams. They're 13 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:06.989 implementing strategy, they're experimenting with tactics, they're building the fastest growing BBB companies 14 00:01:07.030 --> 00:01:10.189 in the world. My name is James Carberry. I'm the founder of sweet 15 00:01:10.230 --> 00:01:12.870 fish media, a podcast agency for BB brands, and I'm also one of 16 00:01:12.870 --> 00:01:17.870 the CO hosts of this show. When we're not interviewing sales and marketing leaders, 17 00:01:18.030 --> 00:01:21.579 you'll hear stories from behind the scenes of our own business. Will share 18 00:01:21.659 --> 00:01:23.980 the ups and downs of our journey as we attempt to take over the world. 19 00:01:25.620 --> 00:01:34.409 Just getting well, maybe let's get into the show. Hey, thank 20 00:01:34.450 --> 00:01:38.290 you for clicking play on this episode of the Bab Growth Show. My name 21 00:01:38.329 --> 00:01:42.609 is Ethan, but I host the CX series here on the show, you're 22 00:01:42.609 --> 00:01:46.730 about to spend some time with Mike Red Board, a gentleman who spent a 23 00:01:46.930 --> 00:01:49.640 decade at hub spot and is currently the general manager of their service hub. 24 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:56.760 In our conversation he articulates so well and so clearly how to create and deliver 25 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:00.359 a better customer experience, how to change CX from a function to a feeling, 26 00:02:00.709 --> 00:02:05.709 how to accept that the customers reality is the reality, and how we 27 00:02:05.790 --> 00:02:08.389 can own up to bad experiences, how we need to unlock the value of 28 00:02:08.509 --> 00:02:13.750 social proof to close down the trust gap, doing things that don't scale, 29 00:02:13.870 --> 00:02:17.620 recording videos to humanize our experience, and so much more. So let's get 30 00:02:17.659 --> 00:02:23.340 into it. All right, if you want to learn how and why to 31 00:02:23.460 --> 00:02:27.259 turn your best customers into your best marketers. You're in the right place. 32 00:02:27.259 --> 00:02:30.729 You're going to love this episode of the Customer Experience Podcast, because today's guest 33 00:02:31.090 --> 00:02:36.250 has spent nearly a decade at hub spot. Most of that time he served 34 00:02:36.289 --> 00:02:39.969 as a vice president, working in services and support and scaling the customer team 35 00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:45.400 to more than five hundred employees. He's currently a hundred percent focused on customer 36 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:49.719 experience as the general manager of the service hub, hub spots new line of 37 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:53.199 business. Mike Red Board, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you 38 00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:55.759 so much. Thank you so much, listeners. Thrilled to be here. 39 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.229 Awesome. I'm so cited for some of the stuff we're going to go through, 40 00:03:00.229 --> 00:03:04.430 especially just based on your experience. I can't imagine the change that you've 41 00:03:04.469 --> 00:03:07.590 seen over a decade at a company like hub spot, but we'll get there 42 00:03:07.629 --> 00:03:12.389 later. Will start where we always start here, which is your thoughts about 43 00:03:12.550 --> 00:03:15.340 customer experience. When I say customer experience, what does it conjure where it's 44 00:03:15.379 --> 00:03:21.580 characteristics is? To me, the customer experience is the reality of what any 45 00:03:21.900 --> 00:03:24.860 one given customer services. So I think a lot of people in the industry 46 00:03:24.939 --> 00:03:28.689 of which all hard right, a lot of people in the industry trying to 47 00:03:28.770 --> 00:03:31.169 find customer serious kind of operationally like on a White Board. But to me 48 00:03:31.530 --> 00:03:35.610 it's the reality. It's the old little things on the sum of the bits 49 00:03:35.650 --> 00:03:38.050 of emotion and touches that a customer has with you and the customer experience is 50 00:03:38.090 --> 00:03:43.240 really one threat for one customer or what they feel, but they experienced and 51 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:46.479 what their impression is therefore up your branch. I love it. The you 52 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:51.840 know, I've asked US question over Thirty Times now to smart folks such as 53 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:54.439 yourself, and the layer yet to here's this reality piece that you started on 54 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:58.830 is like this is real to that person. And you know, we can 55 00:03:58.909 --> 00:04:03.310 sit here internally inside the organization and debate why that happened or how that happened, 56 00:04:03.349 --> 00:04:06.830 but the fact of the matter is we left them with the thoughts and 57 00:04:06.870 --> 00:04:11.180 the feelings that created a reality for that person they're going to hold on to 58 00:04:11.340 --> 00:04:15.419 until we create the opportunity to change that reality or to amplify in the case 59 00:04:15.500 --> 00:04:16.980 that it's a good one. Yeah, I think often, you know, 60 00:04:17.060 --> 00:04:20.459 we choose to disagree with that reality if we haven't also a customer or something 61 00:04:20.500 --> 00:04:25.649 like that was really happened. That's that's not a productive kind of stance to 62 00:04:25.730 --> 00:04:28.850 say, because their reality is a reality there. Perction is their perception, 63 00:04:28.889 --> 00:04:31.649 that is their experience, and so I think thinking about it as reality actually 64 00:04:31.649 --> 00:04:35.329 cultivates a bit of culture of like empathy, which is a super important ast 65 00:04:35.449 --> 00:04:39.519 you, I would say, the most important, actually delivering really great customer 66 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:44.199 service. Completely agree when I talk about what I'm learning by having these conversations 67 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:48.160 and sharing it internally. It really is about raising up customer empathy in more 68 00:04:48.279 --> 00:04:50.439 places. You know, you find it in spots, in their places, 69 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:54.990 where it's really healthy, but you know it's not. It's not often a 70 00:04:55.509 --> 00:04:59.829 pervasive or prevailing attitude or pasture in every seat in the house. But but 71 00:05:00.189 --> 00:05:02.230 you know, that's what it takes to deliver an amazing customer experience. So, 72 00:05:02.629 --> 00:05:05.509 for folks who don't know, talk a little bit about the service hub, 73 00:05:05.550 --> 00:05:09.379 kind of the the tagline at the top of the main page. There 74 00:05:09.459 --> 00:05:14.300 is software that turns customers into promoters and service into growth, which is a 75 00:05:14.339 --> 00:05:16.500 really strong promise. I love all the themes there, but talk about what 76 00:05:16.540 --> 00:05:19.379 you're doing there with the service hub. And so if you're going to build 77 00:05:19.379 --> 00:05:24.329 a druduct come out sweeing on the tagline right. I think that's for us. 78 00:05:24.449 --> 00:05:28.290 The service I was a combination of over twelve years of experience and hup 79 00:05:28.370 --> 00:05:31.850 spot and trying to grow our own business and back in two thousand and six 80 00:05:32.129 --> 00:05:34.649 we started the company. I think a lot of the way that you define 81 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:40.120 yourself to the market, your respective buyers, was real marketing and you know, 82 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:45.279 we Ho spot really pioneered in marketing and growth through blogging and, you 83 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:48.240 know, webinars and stuff like that. I think that wasn't that a lot 84 00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:50.829 of the way which you find your brand. It was from your own voice. 85 00:05:51.389 --> 00:05:54.910 I think now, twelve years on, two thousand and nineteen, or 86 00:05:54.949 --> 00:05:58.470 its two thousand and twenty like very soon, I think it's much more your 87 00:05:58.550 --> 00:06:01.709 customers that to find your brands, some of their experiences. That matters much 88 00:06:01.750 --> 00:06:05.500 more than what you say. Really can't shout them anymore. Every company is 89 00:06:05.500 --> 00:06:10.339 defined by its reviews, every company's defined by his customer reference program and so 90 00:06:10.459 --> 00:06:15.339 we just seeing this really big change and how people shopping by it has much 91 00:06:15.420 --> 00:06:19.329 more to do with the outcome of their peers customers seriences that it those was 92 00:06:19.370 --> 00:06:23.050 what your sales persons says or what your partner say. So because of that 93 00:06:23.329 --> 00:06:27.569 we've now created the product hopefully deliver delight. Voice serioces really kind of chantel 94 00:06:27.610 --> 00:06:30.930 that change that we're seeing in the market to help our customers grow and grow 95 00:06:30.009 --> 00:06:33.959 better and more long way to love that you tapped into a theme that I've 96 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:38.439 heard many ways. You put added a different twist on it a little bit. 97 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:43.319 Is that is that we're no longer in control as businesses and companies, 98 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:46.399 that it really does belong to the customer. I'm going to go one layer 99 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:48.430 deeper and give you the chance to talk about something I think you enjoy talking 100 00:06:48.509 --> 00:06:53.029 about and presenting on and probably that you teach and share internally as well. 101 00:06:53.550 --> 00:06:58.910 Talk a little bit about the underpinnings of the why behind turning our customers into 102 00:06:59.110 --> 00:07:01.579 our best marketers, and I think it's around this, this trust gap. 103 00:07:01.660 --> 00:07:04.980 Can you define the trust gap that exists and how that plays into all this? 104 00:07:05.620 --> 00:07:08.860 Yes, what I just describing the last thought, it was really the 105 00:07:09.100 --> 00:07:12.339 change that we've seen over the last decade or so. We're folks have gone 106 00:07:12.379 --> 00:07:15.290 from trusting companies and trusting sales people and trusting you as a vendor, to 107 00:07:15.410 --> 00:07:19.649 really distrusting you and trusting only people they know and their peers, or perceives 108 00:07:19.730 --> 00:07:24.449 pure group on review sides or something, and those me they're that represents to 109 00:07:24.569 --> 00:07:28.009 such change in behavior and and you're saying under opinion. That is what I 110 00:07:28.089 --> 00:07:30.720 call the trust gap. So I see it that you have a lot of 111 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:35.120 messages as a marketplace, but people are just less of us for subt I 112 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:39.040 think a lot of us doings fact that a lot of those messages that we 113 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:42.759 as people have been receiving over time, we've noticed our lessons. True. 114 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:46.509 So when a company says nowadays, we did a bit of research recently that 115 00:07:46.589 --> 00:07:48.949 showed this our state of service. For Court recently, when a customer says 116 00:07:49.110 --> 00:07:53.189 we are you know, we saw for the customer, our customer first, 117 00:07:53.670 --> 00:07:58.389 only twelve percent of their process actually believe that right. So the past majority, 118 00:07:58.509 --> 00:08:01.339 like eighty percent, kind of start off and you started off on the 119 00:08:01.339 --> 00:08:03.980 back foot with them because he disbelieved that your customer first, even if you 120 00:08:05.100 --> 00:08:07.459 actually are. These is weve be because in the past had been burned by 121 00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:11.019 that steamer. And so I think you have the gap. We're in a 122 00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:13.370 bit of a dish it. I think as a sort of industry or a 123 00:08:13.410 --> 00:08:18.970 community of consumers vendors, where we don't trust businesses and as a result, 124 00:08:18.250 --> 00:08:22.730 when we trust other people, we will for that kind of third party guarantee 125 00:08:22.730 --> 00:08:26.490 that we're making the right decision to create certainty because we don't trust business anymore 126 00:08:26.529 --> 00:08:30.360 to burn so much over the last, you know, decade or fifteen years. 127 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:33.519 So good and so well stated. It reminds me of, you know, 128 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.240 in seth going off for the television industrial complex and it's time to move 129 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:39.879 away from that. It's like, okay, so we moved in a lot 130 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:43.389 of the stuff that you did that you were talking about earlier, into taking 131 00:08:43.509 --> 00:08:48.629 control of distribution, be able to have our own messages direct a consumer as 132 00:08:48.710 --> 00:08:52.350 essentially media companies, through all these various platforms that have opened up. But 133 00:08:52.470 --> 00:08:58.259 even that now has been so apparently abused by marketers and others that that it's 134 00:08:58.379 --> 00:09:01.139 created there. Some of that distrust is now moved into this new zone. 135 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:05.379 Would talk a little bit about some of those channels. I know you have 136 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:09.009 some thoughts around social in the way that's working, around Google and some of 137 00:09:09.049 --> 00:09:15.769 the change that they've made that have made acquisition difficult or demand gend difficult. 138 00:09:15.889 --> 00:09:20.769 That that makes this community of satisfied customers so much more valuable in terms of 139 00:09:20.889 --> 00:09:24.759 creating new customers. Yeah, so hollow. When I think about growth and 140 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:28.360 the way you create growth, there's certain things, a certain tactics, certain 141 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.480 points of time that work in, certain ones that don't, a certain ones 142 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:33.399 that are table stakes but are not like the real beetle movers for your business. 143 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:37.440 So I think that, you know, acting as a media company and 144 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.549 having that Web presents, having a log doing content marketing as whole table stakes 145 00:09:41.669 --> 00:09:45.549 nowadays, and I see the really the interest moving towards social proof and as 146 00:09:45.549 --> 00:09:48.590 a lot to do with the trust conversation. So how do you create social 147 00:09:48.669 --> 00:09:52.110 proof? Like one of the nouns of social proof? To me, there's 148 00:09:52.429 --> 00:09:54.340 some kind of obvious stuff, and that's like putting case studies on your website's 149 00:09:54.379 --> 00:09:58.139 part of that, you know, being a media brand, there are having 150 00:09:58.179 --> 00:10:01.220 a customer reference program where you can have folks actually talk to each other. 151 00:10:01.259 --> 00:10:03.860 It's a deeper way to weave that social proof through, perhaps or stale cycle. 152 00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:07.730 Then there's, you know, the way people talk about you on social 153 00:10:07.769 --> 00:10:09.210 especially for me to see brands, and you know, there's ways to go 154 00:10:09.370 --> 00:10:13.169 off the three influencers, but really when you get that authentic drive and people 155 00:10:13.210 --> 00:10:16.850 really loving you, feels very different. On our social networks, and I 156 00:10:18.009 --> 00:10:22.679 think you have review sites, which are just super key to growth nowadays because 157 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:24.240 that's where a lot of us go and when we search. Those are things 158 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.679 actually rantings really well in Google because people trust them and people know that they 159 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.159 performed well. So those four he studies, reference program social, proved and 160 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:37.029 rew sites. That's really kind of the key, you nouns, of growth. 161 00:10:37.070 --> 00:10:39.909 And of course that's all the old stuff, contem marketing, all that. 162 00:10:39.149 --> 00:10:41.549 It's still matters, you still have to do it, but it's become 163 00:10:41.549 --> 00:10:45.710 a matter of wearing on this new stuff. Do you want to actually grow 164 00:10:45.789 --> 00:10:48.990 and compete in a modern world with a modern customer? Great can you go 165 00:10:50.179 --> 00:10:54.500 one step deeper on reference programs? And the reason I ask is, you 166 00:10:54.580 --> 00:10:58.019 know, we've had various efforts here. You know, whether it's inside our 167 00:10:58.059 --> 00:11:01.700 support site, you know, by customer request. Years Ago I started a 168 00:11:01.779 --> 00:11:05.330 couple facebook groups. You know, customers like we want a place to connect 169 00:11:05.370 --> 00:11:09.289 with other people and then and talk a Lott in. In my experience you 170 00:11:09.370 --> 00:11:11.769 have to do a lot of lifting to get them to participate and to speak 171 00:11:11.809 --> 00:11:16.009 to one another and add value to each other. Can you share some of 172 00:11:16.049 --> 00:11:18.480 the things he's maybe learned along the way with regard to those types of programs? 173 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:22.000 Absolutely so. The first thing is the same thing that you just said. 174 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:28.720 Is Hard. Actually producing a successful customer reference program is quite a bit 175 00:11:28.759 --> 00:11:31.440 of work and I think that companies actually should be choosing. Do we want 176 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.789 to invest, you know, somebody's salary and time and a customer reference program 177 00:11:35.870 --> 00:11:39.669 where do we want to invest that in more ball posts or whatever it is? 178 00:11:39.870 --> 00:11:41.830 I think there's really a trade off there, because doing the sprite is 179 00:11:43.149 --> 00:11:46.700 heavy westing. So the ways of seeming work are basically to use some magnism 180 00:11:46.779 --> 00:11:50.779 to identify within your customer base people who love you. If you have a 181 00:11:50.899 --> 00:11:54.539 lot of customers or if you deliver a really good, serious either way you're 182 00:11:54.539 --> 00:11:58.779 going to have some people, at least one that's a rabid fan. Really 183 00:11:58.860 --> 00:12:01.450 want to start with that first one, and that's your very first kind of 184 00:12:01.490 --> 00:12:05.690 customer reference or reference will point. Want to find that population, whether it's 185 00:12:05.730 --> 00:12:07.490 water or a hundred or a thousand, you want to identify them and tag 186 00:12:07.649 --> 00:12:09.850 them in some way. And then, to your point, you need to 187 00:12:11.009 --> 00:12:15.090 cultivate and, you know, create some system that kind of postimated as a 188 00:12:15.129 --> 00:12:18.679 virtual cycle from that. Has To be something in it for that. Whether 189 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:22.559 it's just being recognized as a star customer, that could be enough. Sometimes 190 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:24.679 it's about it. If you do, if you do one of these calls, 191 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:26.399 will give you a fifty dollar Amazon Gif card. Different things work for 192 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:31.269 different businesses. So I want to identifying them, so to is cultivating them, 193 00:12:31.389 --> 00:12:33.830 and I think that there is a fair amount of turnover at thest six 194 00:12:33.909 --> 00:12:37.269 to s require a lot of upkeep because it's a big pass. If you 195 00:12:37.389 --> 00:12:41.309 ask me to get on the phone or get on a get on a video 196 00:12:41.429 --> 00:12:45.179 with a Persu procepect of yours, that's a lot of mind time and so 197 00:12:45.460 --> 00:12:48.179 folks get burned out on it, folks turnover and it does take a lot 198 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:50.779 of kind of cost effort to keep it going. But a great customer reference 199 00:12:50.820 --> 00:12:54.259 program this is one of the strongest forms of social proof and it's one of 200 00:12:54.259 --> 00:12:58.019 the strongest ways, I think, to really compete and win with the modern 201 00:12:58.019 --> 00:13:01.409 customer in this modern era of trust gaps. So I would argue that the 202 00:13:01.570 --> 00:13:05.490 time the marketing department puts toward cultivating that reference program or any of these other 203 00:13:05.529 --> 00:13:09.529 kind of social proof tools is really valuable. But it should be looked at 204 00:13:09.649 --> 00:13:11.919 on a freight off comparison. Which W should we make that next layding page, 205 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.200 to make that next ad or should we invest the next calory in custom 206 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.480 references? Awesome. I'm going to guess, just based on that response that 207 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:24.600 you that you have some ideas to share on this too. On talk a 208 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:26.950 little bit, maybe about things that you've tried and seen or seen some of 209 00:13:26.990 --> 00:13:31.029 the marketing folks at at help spot try, or maybe it's even bled into 210 00:13:31.070 --> 00:13:35.590 services and support at some level. What are some more passive ways to equip 211 00:13:35.870 --> 00:13:39.309 customers to be marketers on your behalf? For example, again, just speaking 212 00:13:39.350 --> 00:13:43.139 from our experience, we have an affiliate program. We've had it for years. 213 00:13:43.539 --> 00:13:46.460 Is One of the first things that some of our first customers started asking 214 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:48.539 for, you know, a decade ago. And yet, you know, 215 00:13:50.179 --> 00:13:54.860 ninety percent of the revenues generated by three percent of the the affiliates you know, 216 00:13:54.460 --> 00:13:58.330 and it's in part because we're not equipping them well enough and giving them 217 00:13:58.370 --> 00:14:01.409 stories to share in that kind of thing. Have you seen other more scaled 218 00:14:01.490 --> 00:14:05.009 programs that aren't necessarily as personal, aren't as much of a heavy ask on 219 00:14:05.090 --> 00:14:09.720 the customer side, but it's still tapping into that in order to, you 220 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.960 know, benefit from the the positive relationships you've filled with customers. Yeah, 221 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:18.559 there are definitely ways to do this. So becustomer refers program that we just 222 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:22.679 talked about here is quite a high investment on the customers part to help you 223 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:26.429 as a business to grow. And so if you stopping of it as a 224 00:14:26.509 --> 00:14:30.029 centrum from high investment on the customers part to low investment, you can start 225 00:14:30.070 --> 00:14:33.389 to turn the path maybe even higher. Is like having a customer come on 226 00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:37.070 site through a reference. But you know that's quite far behind what's in the 227 00:14:37.070 --> 00:14:39.940 lower rept to me, that's like a red feet right, that's a that's 228 00:14:39.980 --> 00:14:43.860 a quick share on Linkedin or instagram or something like that. Right. And 229 00:14:45.019 --> 00:14:48.100 so there's kind of these one quick digital things that are asyncritus on one and 230 00:14:48.220 --> 00:14:52.210 low and time investment, and then there's there's these sacronous, have you duty 231 00:14:52.250 --> 00:14:54.769 things on the on the other end. And so different things work for different 232 00:14:54.769 --> 00:14:58.250 businesses. But for us, at least we've seen works is to understand again 233 00:14:58.289 --> 00:15:01.769 who those customers are, where your potential advocates. You identify them for your 234 00:15:01.809 --> 00:15:05.610 kind of normal business operations, who you know had a great response after support 235 00:15:05.690 --> 00:15:09.440 case, who gave you a ten on your quarterly MPs, whatever it is. 236 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.919 You get that pool and then you can kind of just throw them these 237 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:16.039 easy opportunities and you'll find out that pool is likely to uptake on them if 238 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.000 there's a so if you send them an email with we just want to saying 239 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.950 if you want to help us out, here's a lazy teed cut past or 240 00:15:22.950 --> 00:15:26.750 quick here, and it's a simple, one quick way to do this thing. 241 00:15:26.990 --> 00:15:28.990 So there's lots of ways to hardest of power of that epic se group. 242 00:15:30.190 --> 00:15:31.110 To me, from an operational stand why? It all starts to the 243 00:15:31.149 --> 00:15:35.149 same place. Yes, to identify your advocates. That's through your whole business 244 00:15:35.190 --> 00:15:37.860 process, and then it just a question of do you want to make a 245 00:15:37.899 --> 00:15:41.659 heavy ass or all? I ask, and sometimes it's both. Sometimes are 246 00:15:41.700 --> 00:15:45.220 different types of customers within that's within the population that want to do different ones, 247 00:15:45.500 --> 00:15:46.820 and so whatever the light is, fossil thing you can do is that's 248 00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:50.970 on the first set of the spectrum, and then things like customer reference programs 249 00:15:50.009 --> 00:15:54.929 and all that's the other end. Awesome. I want to change course a 250 00:15:56.129 --> 00:15:58.970 little bit you. You know what you've seen over the decade there. I 251 00:16:00.049 --> 00:16:03.769 mean just in the way that you're responding the depths and the clarity of thought 252 00:16:03.769 --> 00:16:08.159 around it. You're obviously deeply steeped in a lot of hard one lessons, 253 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:12.000 in learnings and observations and a very forward looking company. I mean, for 254 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:17.000 me, hub spot was really important in my career as I was transitioning out 255 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:19.549 of, you know, previous industry that I'd spent twelve years in. Like 256 00:16:19.710 --> 00:16:23.269 what skills are transferable. All the work that hub spot was doing was very 257 00:16:23.549 --> 00:16:29.990 helpful for me. I've always appreciated respected your company. Talk about and I'll 258 00:16:30.070 --> 00:16:33.179 take this some place, you know five, five or ten minutes from now, 259 00:16:33.259 --> 00:16:37.779 but talk a little bit about your career growth and progression within the company 260 00:16:37.820 --> 00:16:41.940 and I'll tee this up with a few pieces of information and observations of my 261 00:16:41.019 --> 00:16:45.019 own. What I feel like a lot of younger employees wanted all and they 262 00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:48.129 want it all right now, right and I'm imagined that there was some patients 263 00:16:48.169 --> 00:16:53.169 and flexibility and and stuff in your movement throughout the organization. But you know, 264 00:16:53.250 --> 00:16:56.610 you've been you've been there almost a decade in seven different roles, or 265 00:16:56.610 --> 00:17:00.970 at least by title, it looks like it's your second company, with a 266 00:17:00.090 --> 00:17:04.039 compete for a couple years prior to that, and Undergrad. You're an international 267 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:08.960 relations, philosophy and computer science. Talk about how did you land at hub 268 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:12.359 spot? What is your movement been and what are some of the things that 269 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:15.630 you picked up along the way that have now led you to be the general 270 00:17:15.670 --> 00:17:18.670 manager of the of the service hub? So, first of all, thank 271 00:17:18.710 --> 00:17:22.190 you so much for their kind words on, you know, the ways that 272 00:17:22.309 --> 00:17:25.349 responsive being able to help you. That's like the ones my heart. There's 273 00:17:25.349 --> 00:17:27.390 a lot of what we think of as our impact over the long term. 274 00:17:27.509 --> 00:17:32.140 Is that? That's great. I love that. I mean, I guess 275 00:17:32.500 --> 00:17:36.339 I'm a story or a series of maybe short stories here, and that I 276 00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:38.460 hope you help the wiseners, just like if you're early on in your career 277 00:17:38.779 --> 00:17:41.539 you're trying to figure out, you know, feears into the workforce, what 278 00:17:41.779 --> 00:17:45.170 to do or if your returns coming back from, you know, being out 279 00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:48.410 or having family or something like that. Hopefully some of these stories to see 280 00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:52.609 you guys. So for me, I think one thing that I've learned about 281 00:17:52.609 --> 00:17:56.369 myself over the over the years is that I really like building things and I 282 00:17:56.529 --> 00:18:02.240 like going deep on something and building one thing. So I don't think, 283 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:03.920 as I've warned about myself, I'm not the kind of person over the course 284 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.599 of my career, is going to start fifty companies and you know for going 285 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:11.920 to be great success. That's not really me. I'm going to help build 286 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:15.029 a few companies hopefully build into something I'm exceptionally proud of that I want my 287 00:18:15.150 --> 00:18:18.869 grandkids proud. So there's a little bit in this first step just knowing who 288 00:18:18.910 --> 00:18:22.230 you are, and I think you are not through serious. But you know, 289 00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:23.549 I think you can try to think about am I the kind of person 290 00:18:23.630 --> 00:18:26.259 works with a lot of places and touches a lot of different things? For 291 00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:30.299 my sort of very broad or am I very deep on one thing or a 292 00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:32.619 my sort of te tapes, I do a little bit of both. So 293 00:18:32.740 --> 00:18:34.779 for me, you know, I've been looking, or in my s after 294 00:18:34.779 --> 00:18:38.019 a few years of experience, really looking for a company, like it's really 295 00:18:38.019 --> 00:18:41.130 sick my teeth and to and crow with, and I was lucky to find 296 00:18:41.210 --> 00:18:45.450 up spot an element where I really just needed a job and it was a 297 00:18:45.529 --> 00:18:48.170 company that I interview with I felt excited about. It has buzz around it. 298 00:18:48.569 --> 00:18:52.210 Candidly, I don't think I knew what I was getting into when I 299 00:18:52.210 --> 00:18:53.730 enjoined. Up Spot is about a hundred person company. In my job is 300 00:18:53.809 --> 00:18:56.480 new customer on board. I thought it was a job. I interviewed on 301 00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:00.200 a Saturday and again on the Monday and I started working on the next Monday 302 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:02.759 because a friend of mine worked here. I used to go parties of people 303 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:06.799 that also worked a up spots was fact two thousand, and so over time, 304 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:10.910 though, I feel very fortunate to have a fall with upsot and basically, 305 00:19:11.309 --> 00:19:12.750 you know, I feel as though I've worked at three or four very 306 00:19:12.789 --> 00:19:15.990 different companies and as you go through the girl cycles that we have from a 307 00:19:17.029 --> 00:19:19.750 hundred employees to a thousand, you know, through an IPO to an international 308 00:19:19.869 --> 00:19:25.900 company with thousands of employees, you can really junk that experience off into three 309 00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:27.900 or four very different types of companies. And I'll tell you working how to 310 00:19:29.099 --> 00:19:32.460 start up, where it's just madness every day to trying to keep up and 311 00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:36.220 close the earth to make it turn and every single person is just super focus 312 00:19:36.299 --> 00:19:38.769 in that growth. That's a really different type of experience, really different type 313 00:19:38.809 --> 00:19:41.970 of skill set. I'm working at like a scale up once you sort of 314 00:19:42.009 --> 00:19:45.970 arrived, and I really trying to scale that growth in the next level and 315 00:19:45.089 --> 00:19:48.809 it's less of a purely visceral exercise. We're kind of calling at the earth. 316 00:19:48.930 --> 00:19:53.160 is not the skill set. It's more about tactical calling the right strategy 317 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.880 to the right time and making the right tactical moves order to grow. So 318 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:00.799 I think the companies really change over time, but I think that one of 319 00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:03.279 the challenges in that growth actually keeping the focus on the customer. And so 320 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.950 the one consistent thing that I've seen, and really from our founders, ran 321 00:20:07.029 --> 00:20:10.829 a Dar Mesh, that I've seen over and over and over over the last 322 00:20:10.869 --> 00:20:14.789 Seconde. is they are just absolutely obsessed with that customer sperience. The definition 323 00:20:14.829 --> 00:20:17.750 that I gave you even at the top of the show around what I think 324 00:20:17.789 --> 00:20:22.420 customer services. It's the reality of the single customers spread of their experience that 325 00:20:22.660 --> 00:20:26.019 really comes from, I think, our founders pointed view and their obsession with 326 00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:29.339 that one customer sperience and trying to make that as great as possible. Over 327 00:20:29.460 --> 00:20:32.460 time. I've had various shot of doing various things, but that's really been 328 00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:36.210 our north star. Even if you know the skill sets of changed over time. 329 00:20:36.490 --> 00:20:38.650 We've kind of really learned about myself through the journey. So good. 330 00:20:40.130 --> 00:20:42.130 I'm really glad I ask that. And now I want to get a little 331 00:20:42.130 --> 00:20:48.609 bit into how of the customers change to how has the service function changed? 332 00:20:48.730 --> 00:20:52.559 So for you your initial role was on boarding new customers. Talk a little 333 00:20:52.599 --> 00:21:00.160 bit about that journey specifically for people are thinking about customer success generally and customer 334 00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:03.750 support or customer service specifically. Like, what are some of the thing you 335 00:21:03.829 --> 00:21:08.309 know you defined at a company level kind of these different chunks along the way. 336 00:21:08.430 --> 00:21:11.309 What are a few things you know for people that are somewhere along that 337 00:21:11.430 --> 00:21:17.069 journey is a company? What does that look like inside a CS organization along 338 00:21:17.150 --> 00:21:19.740 that path? Yeah, great questions. So I think at the beginning you 339 00:21:19.819 --> 00:21:23.019 know and you're just in the primority lose of the business and you're a couple 340 00:21:23.059 --> 00:21:26.380 of founders, maybe an engineer and perhaps a salesperson. You know, it's 341 00:21:26.420 --> 00:21:30.380 we also is the same room. You know, at that point everybody really 342 00:21:30.460 --> 00:21:33.769 understands the fabric of the customer experience. You're doing support, you know, 343 00:21:33.809 --> 00:21:37.890 via test message or once on the founder cell phones. Right it's like everybody's 344 00:21:37.930 --> 00:21:41.450 really plugged in. And then there's a very interesting moment that happens that business 345 00:21:41.450 --> 00:21:45.450 hires the first person whose job it is is just working customers. You hire, 346 00:21:45.569 --> 00:21:48.559 you know, a DP of customer success. We hired that support rap 347 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.440 was just going to quer the Q at the end of the day, whatever 348 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:53.480 it is, because now what you've done is you take that responsibility, this 349 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:59.559 kind of holly responsibility of customer experience, and you've moved it from founder well 350 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:03.390 to employee level. That's first really big change. That I think is a 351 00:22:03.430 --> 00:22:07.029 super interesting one of the means that first hire is really, really key because 352 00:22:07.029 --> 00:22:10.029 that person is also going to really define the genetics of your you know, 353 00:22:10.470 --> 00:22:12.670 of Your Service Department and the major of the customer studience after that. So 354 00:22:12.789 --> 00:22:17.500 that's really, really key. On the other key moment that happens after that, 355 00:22:17.619 --> 00:22:19.220 and then there's one more after following this one, is that you go 356 00:22:19.339 --> 00:22:22.859 from one person to a set of people and those set of people start to 357 00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:26.180 do different functions. So you hire a support person or two and they just 358 00:22:26.220 --> 00:22:30.650 kind of did stuff and then one day you wake up and you realize, 359 00:22:30.690 --> 00:22:33.730 Oh, I have one person whose job it is to make our new customer 360 00:22:33.769 --> 00:22:36.930 successful and I've another person whose job it is is to clear the support. 361 00:22:37.009 --> 00:22:41.250 You and I specialized right and that point of specialization is interesting because you start 362 00:22:41.289 --> 00:22:45.200 to develop like expertise. You start to develop the way at your company of 363 00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.880 doing, say, on board, of doing the support, and I think 364 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:52.599 that's where you start to develop practices and you start to get really opinionated about, 365 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.160 you know, what is the new customer experience look like at my company, 366 00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:59.950 and that's a very exciting time. And then that's stage too. So 367 00:23:00.069 --> 00:23:03.509 it goes from just everybody those support started to get specialized, and thet's say 368 00:23:03.630 --> 00:23:07.509 three is really about, I guess, the customer experience and customer success customer 369 00:23:07.589 --> 00:23:11.980 outcomes becoming the culture of the company. And so there's a really kind of 370 00:23:12.019 --> 00:23:18.299 a third level here where customer experience becomes the core of the mindset of every 371 00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:22.740 single person and everything you do you track back to customer sperience. Every time 372 00:23:22.779 --> 00:23:25.779 you do a sale, every way that you make decisions about your upcoming and 373 00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:29.329 you strategy, whatever it is, really value the customer experience and you don't 374 00:23:29.329 --> 00:23:32.170 kind of let the tail wagon dog was saying, Oh, how do we 375 00:23:32.289 --> 00:23:34.049 just grow a little more, we'll deal with that customer than later. You 376 00:23:34.170 --> 00:23:38.609 really put the customer first ass scale that. I think that third part is 377 00:23:38.690 --> 00:23:41.880 the hardest thing to do, because the first one, hiring that first round, 378 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:45.920 and second one, specializing, all of those happened to you on your 379 00:23:45.920 --> 00:23:51.160 journey to growth. But the third one, of really making customer serience the 380 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:56.269 centerpiece of your entire business rategy. That's effort from your founders or your executive 381 00:23:56.309 --> 00:23:57.549 team. All that, I mean the right hires along the way. A 382 00:23:57.630 --> 00:24:00.269 lot of things have to come together and make that work. I think doing 383 00:24:00.349 --> 00:24:04.670 that is really what different is amazing companies and modern era from okay less. 384 00:24:04.710 --> 00:24:07.630 I would to work in a basing companies that really care about customers, but 385 00:24:07.789 --> 00:24:11.619 the customer sperience center of everything. To do so, how do? You've 386 00:24:11.619 --> 00:24:17.259 already mentioned several ways that that is that third piece. Is the thing. 387 00:24:17.819 --> 00:24:21.539 We're at that door right like you know, we're at that point at where 388 00:24:21.579 --> 00:24:25.049 maybe a hundred and forty people and we're at that point where we have a 389 00:24:25.130 --> 00:24:27.650 lot of folks with direct customer experience that are, you know, a few 390 00:24:27.690 --> 00:24:30.410 months on the job and a few years into their career. And so how 391 00:24:30.410 --> 00:24:33.609 do you know? How do you bring back all of the essence, like 392 00:24:33.849 --> 00:24:38.640 the deep motivations and the intentional that and you mentioned, you know, the 393 00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:44.200 founders hiring. Well, I assume that it's baked into some of the onboarding. 394 00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:48.960 But what are some other practical ways that people can can infuse the rest 395 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:53.029 of the organization with a sensitivity toward customer experience and its value? And again, 396 00:24:53.069 --> 00:24:56.750 just double back on customer empathy. How do we order some practical ways 397 00:24:56.789 --> 00:25:00.430 that you are raising that up inside the organization day to day, week to 398 00:25:00.509 --> 00:25:04.349 week? I love that question. Love it especially because you use the word 399 00:25:04.470 --> 00:25:08.660 sensitivity in there and that's really what it is. And so what we want 400 00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:12.339 to do is you want to cultivate a culture that is sensitive to the customer. 401 00:25:12.980 --> 00:25:15.059 And the way you do that, the way you create that, I 402 00:25:15.220 --> 00:25:19.900 think the necessary depths of understanding to have that, like fine great sensitivity, 403 00:25:21.259 --> 00:25:25.089 is you have to actually do things that don't scale right. So, like 404 00:25:25.210 --> 00:25:27.009 when I was on boarding customers of house fought, I spent eight hours a 405 00:25:27.049 --> 00:25:30.049 day on the phone with them and I would touch, you know, whatever, 406 00:25:30.089 --> 00:25:33.890 a hundred customers in a week. I was really sensitive to the customer 407 00:25:33.970 --> 00:25:37.839 sperience. When I was a director of support, you know, with a 408 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:41.200 fifty person team. That was kind of in my review mirror and a sim 409 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:44.759 more time and spreadsheets. I got really good at interviewing and hiring the use 410 00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:47.960 of my time. I was a good director of support. But that sensitivities 411 00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.869 the customer kind of fades away. If you can lean back on it, 412 00:25:51.150 --> 00:25:52.710 you know it starts again the review or gets a little worrier. And so 413 00:25:52.789 --> 00:25:56.430 the way that I think you really stay in touch, even if you come 414 00:25:56.549 --> 00:26:00.509 from a place where you were superb, like inbedded in the customer serience, 415 00:26:00.549 --> 00:26:03.380 way you stay in touch is you go back there, you spentime with customers. 416 00:26:03.539 --> 00:26:07.339 You don't just listen to the customer calls, you actually are the person 417 00:26:07.420 --> 00:26:11.500 doing the calls. You you have to yourself respond to the question from the 418 00:26:11.539 --> 00:26:15.299 customer about why Ez he didn't work or why did this single this way or, 419 00:26:15.579 --> 00:26:18.420 you know, listen to their hackaways about something and the fact that they 420 00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:22.890 display something else not to create that emotional state in yourself and have a really 421 00:26:22.890 --> 00:26:25.890 high Tud relationship with the customer. So I tactical level, what can you 422 00:26:25.970 --> 00:26:30.289 do to create that sensitivity on your executive team? Talk to a customer every 423 00:26:30.369 --> 00:26:33.200 month as a team. It doesn't scale. It's the world's most expensive support 424 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:37.839 call in certain ways, but do it because it will create a sensitivity and 425 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:41.319 it will, like I shake you out of your normalcy and it back into 426 00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:45.480 the customers reality. Add to the customer serience. If you're in product right 427 00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.069 and you're doing research and you know it's kind of quantitative, make sure for 428 00:26:49.230 --> 00:26:53.349 coloring it with quality of research and talk to some customers and feel what they 429 00:26:53.390 --> 00:26:56.750 feel or do say visits right. It's sebally empathy in that sensitivity and a 430 00:26:56.829 --> 00:27:00.269 lot of that is doing things. It's a scale. So why I see 431 00:27:00.309 --> 00:27:03.819 our team doing this, for our secute sends actually quite a bit of time 432 00:27:03.140 --> 00:27:07.460 with customers one on one. And you know, there's one way to look 433 00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:10.579 at it like wow, that's a really inefficient use of highly the people's time. 434 00:27:10.859 --> 00:27:12.140 The other way is that's the thing that makes us us. We would 435 00:27:12.140 --> 00:27:15.930 fail without that and I think that, I think that's second wrote that that 436 00:27:15.089 --> 00:27:19.130 is like the necessary way to cultivate sensitivity in the upathe is just gottis spend 437 00:27:19.170 --> 00:27:22.450 the time with costs, just people to people. It's great. It's one 438 00:27:22.490 --> 00:27:29.089 of my curiosities. Again that motivates me within these conversations on the customer experience. 439 00:27:29.210 --> 00:27:33.359 Podcasts is doing the unscalable and a certain point maybe you do figure out 440 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.079 how to scale it. But I think so many people are looking to automate 441 00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:42.720 and scale. I'm using your quotes for people not watching video clips, which 442 00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:47.829 you can do by visiting bombombcom slash podcast. We want to scale these things, 443 00:27:48.349 --> 00:27:51.789 maybe prematurely. I think there are some things to your point. There's 444 00:27:51.789 --> 00:27:53.750 some things that that maybe shouldn't be scaled and there are other things that you 445 00:27:53.829 --> 00:27:57.309 can just push to the very, very edge. It's like, okay, 446 00:27:57.859 --> 00:28:02.660 cost benefit not there talk a little bit about that, I guess, from 447 00:28:02.660 --> 00:28:07.940 a success and service and support standpoint. Human touch versus tech touch, how 448 00:28:07.940 --> 00:28:10.900 do you think about it? Is Is it? Is it purely a calculated 449 00:28:11.059 --> 00:28:14.970 piece or like, what are some of your thoughts around when to be truly 450 00:28:15.130 --> 00:28:21.809 personal and then when to personalize? So I love people. I also love 451 00:28:21.849 --> 00:28:23.769 as machines. Right, so I come on, I come on both sides 452 00:28:23.890 --> 00:28:29.279 this. Of course, they have different people have different skills that machines, 453 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:30.599 whichines are great, a something. Some people are great at somethings. So 454 00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:36.279 to me, people are actually insanely flexible and they they're very actile. You 455 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:38.119 can walk in in the morning and say, like not, your job is 456 00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:42.029 to do this thing, but yesterday was this sec that's much more difficult with 457 00:28:42.150 --> 00:28:45.150 the machine, but at least a relatively simple machine that you've just stood up. 458 00:28:45.190 --> 00:28:48.710 But people are really flessible and they're very actual. Machines are great at 459 00:28:48.750 --> 00:28:52.309 doing the same task over and over and they're really good at doing things that 460 00:28:52.509 --> 00:28:55.819 people, you know, kind of don't want to do. Also right. 461 00:28:56.019 --> 00:28:59.339 So to me, how do you say that then what people are good at 462 00:28:59.380 --> 00:29:02.259 and what machines are good at and create a customer success strategy? That pen's 463 00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:06.140 books. And the answer is, if you have questions about what the your 464 00:29:06.220 --> 00:29:08.940 process ought to be, so like say, let's take a new customer making 465 00:29:08.980 --> 00:29:12.009 that successful. If you have questions about what it takes to make a customer 466 00:29:12.049 --> 00:29:15.329 successful, that is not a job for a machine. That's a job for 467 00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:18.890 human. Yes, and Mal can help write, but a human could just 468 00:29:18.049 --> 00:29:21.730 talk to twenty customers are probably figured it out over the course of a week 469 00:29:21.970 --> 00:29:25.039 in a much heaper and more actual way. So that's kind of the beginning 470 00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:26.640 of the story. Often starts some people when you're trying to Hask those questions 471 00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.960 of what ought we to do. Then once you know what you ought to 472 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.400 do, then it's time to like kind of blend people in machines and some 473 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:37.750 really cool cyborg thing and start outment the forductivity of people and start to move 474 00:29:37.829 --> 00:29:41.589 some of the simpler work. More people work off of their place. So 475 00:29:41.670 --> 00:29:44.630 they found there's an email that they send every time. It works really well. 476 00:29:44.869 --> 00:29:48.710 Cool. Let's not have the sent the emails which comes from a crm 477 00:29:48.750 --> 00:29:52.309 or websycle manager smouche or something like that. Over time, as a people 478 00:29:52.390 --> 00:29:53.900 figure out more and more things and more and more of a false as to 479 00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:59.259 kind of like repeatable, successful stuff. Machines are great at that. Over 480 00:29:59.420 --> 00:30:02.500 time, in fact, even that whole process, perhaps on boarding itself, 481 00:30:02.539 --> 00:30:04.500 might get fully automated. But I'm a big fan of really starting with people. 482 00:30:04.740 --> 00:30:07.930 To people are actually and flexible, but overtime larying and machines and more 483 00:30:07.970 --> 00:30:11.970 and more over time that becomes more mechanized. The trick in that because that 484 00:30:12.130 --> 00:30:18.049 sometimes there are changes that happen, either exhaustion of changes and the market place 485 00:30:18.250 --> 00:30:21.049 or, you know, the way humans are behaving, which talked about at 486 00:30:21.170 --> 00:30:22.680 a little bit of the front of the podcast, or maybe you change your 487 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:26.279 pricing or your packaging or some new competitor and that can really come in and 488 00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:30.000 create like some waves that use that have to go back in with people and 489 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:33.759 refigure out. That's beginning of this process. So to me, start with 490 00:30:33.799 --> 00:30:37.910 people, because of flexible you automate over time and you will eat fun of 491 00:30:37.910 --> 00:30:41.309 your processes individually somewhere off that spectrum. And then you need to kind of 492 00:30:41.349 --> 00:30:45.630 have a hygiene process for making sure that inside, yes, these are good 493 00:30:45.829 --> 00:30:48.470 and you're not fooling yourself into thinking that you've got it all figured out. 494 00:30:48.710 --> 00:30:52.819 Saying we're saying in touch with the customer and you really are key to understand 495 00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:56.019 what the experience because even when you have automated a lot of their way so 496 00:30:56.180 --> 00:31:00.980 good that in that hygiene process is so easy to miss this idea that we 497 00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:03.329 do need to carve out the time or to make a process to double back 498 00:31:03.450 --> 00:31:07.210 and review and make sure that this all works. The way I the way 499 00:31:07.250 --> 00:31:11.529 I heard, that's grossly oversimplified and if anyone enjoyed that as much as I 500 00:31:11.650 --> 00:31:14.930 did, just hit the bounce back button and listen to that response again, 501 00:31:14.970 --> 00:31:17.769 because there's a lot of really good stuff in there. To really dumb it 502 00:31:17.890 --> 00:31:21.079 down. It's the machine is going to operate against a rule set. The 503 00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:25.160 rule set needs to be written and humans are in the best position to learn 504 00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:29.160 and take some of this complex information, put it together, the nuance and 505 00:31:29.240 --> 00:31:33.750 the detail folded together into the rule sets that the machine operates by. Periodically 506 00:31:33.789 --> 00:31:36.910 check in and make sure that the rule set still applies and that the machine 507 00:31:36.950 --> 00:31:38.710 is still doing a job. I'm going to hit you with a couple other 508 00:31:40.150 --> 00:31:42.589 just kind of themes, are high level questions, before wrapping the way I 509 00:31:42.630 --> 00:31:48.019 always like to wrap the show, and one of them is based on a 510 00:31:48.099 --> 00:31:51.220 word that I saw on the service hub website. Is something I've been thinking 511 00:31:51.259 --> 00:31:52.900 about quite a bit. There are number of books written with this in the 512 00:31:53.019 --> 00:31:57.059 title. Talk a little bit about friction and friction less, talk about the 513 00:31:57.099 --> 00:32:00.140 friction less experience, and what triggered that for me was that you know, 514 00:32:00.259 --> 00:32:05.569 this blend of both and human and machine is how I think we get best 515 00:32:05.609 --> 00:32:08.609 to friction less. But we are some of your thoughts around friction frictionless. 516 00:32:09.170 --> 00:32:14.569 Am I you? Fristes is a piece of the customer experience and something customers 517 00:32:14.609 --> 00:32:17.680 field around the experience, sometimes for ups. So, for instance, if 518 00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:22.920 I want to engage with your company to accomplish a certain thing and I can't 519 00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:27.079 do it the way that I want. I see is frisure. So it's 520 00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:30.589 really a it's very customer centric kind of things, first thing, and different 521 00:32:30.630 --> 00:32:34.869 customers and different business of different definitions of what friction is. There's not a 522 00:32:34.950 --> 00:32:37.109 one size at all. Christ's, if I wanted to, you know, 523 00:32:37.269 --> 00:32:42.470 sign out for spotify, I don't want to talk to a person. spotify 524 00:32:42.630 --> 00:32:45.819 maybe talk to a person. I don't for it. Having considered that friction, 525 00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:47.700 how I would be less likely to sign up a spotify wine honest and 526 00:32:47.740 --> 00:32:52.059 cancel my spotify account has talk to a person. Have user up friction. 527 00:32:52.140 --> 00:32:54.299 That would make me more upset on the way up the door. But I 528 00:32:54.380 --> 00:32:58.730 wanted to buy up spot enterprise class software in order to do, you know, 529 00:32:58.849 --> 00:33:01.650 crm or help desk for something, I might want to talk to a 530 00:33:01.769 --> 00:33:06.130 person and in fact, if you push to a self service versus experience, 531 00:33:06.329 --> 00:33:08.009 I might not like it and might actually want to talk to a human being 532 00:33:08.049 --> 00:33:12.130 in order to make my decision. And so that's a case in which sometimes 533 00:33:12.369 --> 00:33:15.960 buying and doing that self service, that's about reducing frictions of machines. Sometimes 534 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:20.640 about reducing friction by, in a like human top so once again it's understanding 535 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:23.319 your customer in the moment, what they actually need and finding the path of 536 00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:27.990 reast recess for that. Anything else is creating friction. So for different businesses 537 00:33:28.069 --> 00:33:30.869 it's really different things. There's consider purchases. Will consider purchases. There's times 538 00:33:30.869 --> 00:33:34.750 where we really want to consultation and advice, there's times we want to be 539 00:33:34.789 --> 00:33:37.630 less of loaners, do what we know is right. And I think understanding 540 00:33:37.670 --> 00:33:40.349 your customer or reading your segments of customers to sub personas within your customer base 541 00:33:40.579 --> 00:33:44.660 and try, and really I think the key Verbus, to match the way 542 00:33:44.700 --> 00:33:47.059 your customers want to be treated with the channels and the mechanisms that you offer. 543 00:33:47.380 --> 00:33:51.420 That's how you reduce friction. You do that for frictional selling. There's 544 00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:53.579 a lot of ways to reduce friction in the sales process. Do that for 545 00:33:53.859 --> 00:33:58.210 frictional a service so that people can get their own answers when they want but 546 00:33:58.289 --> 00:34:00.609 also have the help they eat when they need it. And there's all sorts 547 00:34:00.609 --> 00:34:04.210 of ways across the wife stable to reduce friction and I think nowadays the brand 548 00:34:04.369 --> 00:34:07.010 with the least friction went that's how you created your customer experience. That's how 549 00:34:07.050 --> 00:34:10.000 you grow as how you beat the competition. It's less about even having the 550 00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:14.360 best product, it's more about having the best experience. Were Bou having the 551 00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:19.719 lowest first hundred percent agree. That's an easy story for a satisfied customer to 552 00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:22.960 tell. Right like I went in with this opportunity or this problem or this 553 00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:25.869 challenge, and guess what it was? Unlike all the other ones. It 554 00:34:27.030 --> 00:34:30.030 just like got resolved or I got to completion right away and it was easier 555 00:34:30.110 --> 00:34:34.309 than I thought because of the expectations around a lot of the stuff are so 556 00:34:34.670 --> 00:34:37.659 low and in this friction zone is like moving so quickly. There's a lot 557 00:34:37.699 --> 00:34:42.900 of progress there. So I think expectations will change rapidly, but you know, 558 00:34:42.980 --> 00:34:46.659 we're still maybe in a window where it's not that hard to exceed expectations. 559 00:34:47.219 --> 00:34:52.820 The other place I wanted to go here quickly is video. So you 560 00:34:52.889 --> 00:34:55.530 know we turns out we both sound a lot of simple, personal, unscripted 561 00:34:55.570 --> 00:35:00.489 videos to connect and communicate with people more effectively. We swap videos prior to 562 00:35:00.570 --> 00:35:01.530 this call. So when you came out, I was like hey, it's 563 00:35:01.570 --> 00:35:05.769 Mike. Talk a little bit about why you like video and maybe even how 564 00:35:05.809 --> 00:35:09.440 you've seen it be successful within your within your support efforts. I just see 565 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:15.000 the progress is videos technology over the last five years or so so really fast 566 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.480 and it's a fantastic way to humanize experiences in a world where I think we're 567 00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:23.309 really hungry for human experiences. And so we started probably way back in two 568 00:35:23.349 --> 00:35:27.989 thousand and fourteen or so and our support team using video as a tool, 569 00:35:28.070 --> 00:35:31.510 especially when we realize that we're doo emails into a twist it. But man, 570 00:35:31.590 --> 00:35:35.190 this could get really nartly. Let me record a too minute. We 571 00:35:35.230 --> 00:35:37.500 called them video voice sales. Kind of sent the wall with a little bit 572 00:35:37.539 --> 00:35:42.820 of test and those just like the opportunity for surprises of light and those it's 573 00:35:42.820 --> 00:35:45.260 just a base. People don't expect it. It's so novel enough that it 574 00:35:45.380 --> 00:35:51.449 kind of feels new and fresh to the recipient and it just it can help 575 00:35:51.489 --> 00:35:54.929 you get over so many, I think, hurdles that technology imposes, like 576 00:35:55.010 --> 00:35:59.050 when you communicate for email, there's always that channeling. Read the email. 577 00:35:59.250 --> 00:36:01.010 How should I response? Should I craft this? There's all this like inner 578 00:36:01.090 --> 00:36:05.679 monolog us, a sense with all that when you're on a just a phone 579 00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:07.519 call, you never know what's going on with somebody like moming something on the 580 00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:10.639 side or whatever. Like synchronous video and get get away from that. You 581 00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:15.159 at least somebody a voicemail. You don't know if you're actual communicating what they 582 00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.239 need, but when your company with video in your face and intonation in your 583 00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:22.110 voice clusterface, it just really enrichested. So we just seen video as a 584 00:36:22.269 --> 00:36:27.949 tremendously useful ways to shortcut, like in safe time, the simultaneously actually get 585 00:36:27.949 --> 00:36:30.230 better. How it comes for everybody. It's just like good things come to 586 00:36:30.349 --> 00:36:32.900 those that are more human, and video nowadays, I think, is a 587 00:36:32.980 --> 00:36:37.619 technology that really enables human as well. Who knows those nast maybe it's like, 588 00:36:37.739 --> 00:36:39.179 you know, I went to reality, or or you are or something 589 00:36:39.219 --> 00:36:42.300 like. There's some mess. That will be the thing. But I think 590 00:36:42.340 --> 00:36:45.139 right now, at this moment of prober, for the next couple of years 591 00:36:45.139 --> 00:36:47.610 at least, videos a really, really great way to humanize the sales experience, 592 00:36:47.690 --> 00:36:52.329 support experience, whatever it is. It just like just shortcut a lot 593 00:36:52.369 --> 00:36:54.010 of the stuff and just wort personal person to get to where you want to 594 00:36:54.050 --> 00:36:58.449 go. So good and all it takes is getting past that. You know 595 00:36:58.530 --> 00:37:01.800 that that tense, that challenge that people feel in crafting the right response. 596 00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:05.119 And did I get the tone right? You know, there's the same thing 597 00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:07.639 with getting comfortable on camera. But once he move past that. I love 598 00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:12.840 what you offered their first that the person that's more human wins. But then 599 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:17.030 also you can save time while improving the outcome once you get past that basic 600 00:37:17.110 --> 00:37:22.230 comfort of recording and sending videos like this has been awesome, the ton of 601 00:37:22.269 --> 00:37:23.469 value. I know I kind of took it a little bit all over the 602 00:37:23.590 --> 00:37:28.269 place, but I know that people are going to enjoy the conversation and playback 603 00:37:28.309 --> 00:37:30.739 very very much. Before we go, I always love to give you the 604 00:37:30.860 --> 00:37:35.500 opportunity to think or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or 605 00:37:35.579 --> 00:37:39.380 career and to mention a company that is doing customer experience really, really well. 606 00:37:40.099 --> 00:37:44.449 Yeah, so I think one of the people that's had a really formative 607 00:37:44.489 --> 00:37:49.650 role in my a lot of the conversation we've had on this podcast today is 608 00:37:49.849 --> 00:37:52.849 Brian, my CEO, and you know he's somebody that's had a incredibly type 609 00:37:52.889 --> 00:37:57.929 focus on the customer to throughout our growth, but he's also somebody who you 610 00:37:58.010 --> 00:38:00.840 know I've been in. He's only close content with for not ten years and 611 00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:04.480 he's one of the most adoptable human beings on the planet and I just constantly 612 00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:07.360 impressed by his consistency of focus, with the new tools and new levels that 613 00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:10.360 he seen able to reach in his job function, which I seel the software 614 00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:15.110 company has changed from my founder. So now you know, let's see your 615 00:38:15.309 --> 00:38:19.269 global public company and it's just straying interests to watch them. But also watched 616 00:38:19.309 --> 00:38:22.590 the customer focus. He's got a great mentor me nowing you make the right 617 00:38:22.630 --> 00:38:24.670 decisions. And you know, Storty Crow my career too. So That's on 618 00:38:24.750 --> 00:38:28.139 the mentor side. A lot of what I have to say is sort of, 619 00:38:28.179 --> 00:38:30.820 you know, share with Brian in terms of totality, right. And 620 00:38:30.900 --> 00:38:34.500 then on the on the customer side, thin, excuse me, the O, 621 00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:37.059 the business side. That I think a really interesting I find that the 622 00:38:37.139 --> 00:38:43.489 place where customers series is most important is where the thing that you're selling is 623 00:38:43.530 --> 00:38:45.329 a little bit of a commodity, right, getting a bunch of places, 624 00:38:45.530 --> 00:38:51.050 and the more competitive the industry, the more husberry serious today is causing her 625 00:38:51.050 --> 00:38:53.570 to be winners stand out whener sometimes. So when I look at that, 626 00:38:53.690 --> 00:38:57.559 I think if some industries that are kind of like old school industries, right. 627 00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:00.280 I look at like the mattress industry and what Casper or like, you 628 00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:04.599 know, those kind of quick summer mattresses are doing with customer series. Maybe, 629 00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:07.320 sure, you have any great experience. But an industry that I really, 630 00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:09.829 really like, it's actually the makeup industry and there's two brands in there 631 00:39:09.869 --> 00:39:13.429 want to call out in particular. Want is called Gipsy. They want to 632 00:39:13.469 --> 00:39:15.869 call blass, right, and these brands are selling meg up and they have 633 00:39:15.989 --> 00:39:20.590 a brand identity. They have such an amazing pull through of that brand identity 634 00:39:20.869 --> 00:39:23.659 from their website, their instagram to their service or twitter. It is just 635 00:39:23.780 --> 00:39:27.659 so good sistem. You feel like you're talking to a person that has a 636 00:39:27.780 --> 00:39:31.059 real identity. I think it's on an amazing job of cultivating themselves in terms 637 00:39:31.099 --> 00:39:36.579 of personas and delivering a customer serious really in line with what their customers want. 638 00:39:36.739 --> 00:39:39.489 So I love those industries. I love those friends great recommendations. Hey, 639 00:39:39.769 --> 00:39:44.369 if someone wants to follow up with you because they want to see what 640 00:39:44.409 --> 00:39:46.889 you're sharing and and connect and communicate with you, or they want to check 641 00:39:46.889 --> 00:39:51.090 out the service hub or they want to check out hub spot worse some places 642 00:39:51.130 --> 00:39:52.960 that people can connect with you and the work that you're doing. Yeah, 643 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.159 so if you want to get in touch with we have loves talking to you 644 00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:59.039 guys, especially if you made it through the entire podcast. Let's definitely talk. 645 00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:00.960 Follow me on twitter at Red Board, my last name or winked in 646 00:40:01.239 --> 00:40:04.400 easy to find them. If you want to learn more about more about the 647 00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:07.590 hub spost service, then go to help spot on Cam Service. It's a 648 00:40:07.630 --> 00:40:09.710 bunch of information out. Again, be happy to talk to anybody about their 649 00:40:10.030 --> 00:40:14.630 rooms, customers, growing, stealing teams, sort us off or whatever. 650 00:40:14.710 --> 00:40:17.150 I love this stuff and thank you, guys for US awesome and I do 651 00:40:17.309 --> 00:40:22.179 want to double down on what might just shared with you as a listener. 652 00:40:22.260 --> 00:40:24.420 If you got this deep into the episode, you probably have a ton of 653 00:40:24.539 --> 00:40:29.460 ideas. Mike has just made himself available to you and I'll say it's someone 654 00:40:29.500 --> 00:40:32.340 who does the same thing. Not Nearly enough people take people up on the 655 00:40:32.380 --> 00:40:36.809 opportunity. So I know he sincere about and so if you have some some 656 00:40:37.010 --> 00:40:39.289 ideas or questions or anything, reach out to Mike. Thank you so much 657 00:40:39.289 --> 00:40:43.929 for listening and thank you for your time, Mike. Mass of pleasures. 658 00:40:45.650 --> 00:40:50.320 I hope you enjoyed that conversation? If so, definitely connect with Michael redboard 659 00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:53.719 on Linkedin. You can also connect with me Ethan Butte. That spelled beute. 660 00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:57.559 And if you want to go deeper on this episode or any other, 661 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:01.039 you can always watch video clips and get summaries, takeaways links out to some 662 00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:07.030 of the things we talked about by visiting Bombombcom podcast. Thanks again for listening 663 00:41:07.269 --> 00:41:14.550 to the B tob growth show. We totally get it. We publish a 664 00:41:14.710 --> 00:41:17.190 ton of content on this podcast and it can be a lot to keep up 665 00:41:17.190 --> 00:41:22.539 with. That's why we've started the BETB growth big three, a no fluff 666 00:41:22.619 --> 00:41:27.059 email that boils down our three biggest takeaways from an entire week of episodes. 667 00:41:27.500 --> 00:41:34.369 Sign up today at Sweet Fish Mediacom big three. That sweet PHISH MEDIACOM Big 668 00:41:34.690 --> Three
