How Do You Measure Your Podcast's Success?

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:02.740 Yeah, 2 00:00:04.540 --> 00:00:08.000 so welcome back everyone. I think we've still got a few more people jumping in 3 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:11.730 but we're going ahead and just get started. This first question and any 4 00:00:11.730 --> 00:00:14.980 questions you have throughout the rest of this call for the 30 minutes we have 5 00:00:14.980 --> 00:00:19.630 today just drop it in the chat and either dan or myself Logan couldn't 6 00:00:19.630 --> 00:00:23.350 join us this time but we'll be looking in the chat and we will try to answer 7 00:00:23.540 --> 00:00:26.940 if we don't answer your question on this call will get it in the dock that 8 00:00:26.940 --> 00:00:31.310 way we can answer it on future calls. But the first question is what metrics 9 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:36.750 to consider and track for success. I know dan this is something I think we 10 00:00:36.750 --> 00:00:41.480 touched on a little bit last week but do you want to jump in and tackle this 11 00:00:41.480 --> 00:00:46.320 question? I know we get a lot, there's like multiple. I'm not sure what list 12 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:50.520 you're working for him for these questions, but I can answer this one 13 00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:54.880 for sure. When it comes to measuring podcast success, it's kind of difficult 14 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:59.600 right? Because you're only given a set list of podcast analytics, you log into 15 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:03.990 your lipson or sounder or whatever analytics analytics dashboard you have 16 00:01:03.990 --> 00:01:06.480 and you see some downloads. It's like yeah. And then you publish again, you 17 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:09.230 see some more downloads and hopefully they're more than last time. The 18 00:01:09.230 --> 00:01:12.890 problem is you're like, well these are these good are these bad? Most of us 19 00:01:12.890 --> 00:01:15.630 have been working with websites and blog posts long enough to kind of know 20 00:01:15.630 --> 00:01:20.570 that five people reading a blog post isn't that great. The 250 is getting 21 00:01:20.570 --> 00:01:22.760 pretty good and if you're in the thousands and you're doing really good, 22 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:25.640 right? But in podcast and you're like what are the benchmarks we can look at? 23 00:01:25.650 --> 00:01:29.590 So here's a couple of ways you can actually determine what to look at. 24 00:01:29.600 --> 00:01:34.560 Look at in your podcast analytics, one to compare apples to apples to itself, 25 00:01:35.240 --> 00:01:39.340 to your other channels and then to the industry. Those are kind of three 26 00:01:39.340 --> 00:01:42.090 different ways to provide enough context to know if your podcast is 27 00:01:42.090 --> 00:01:46.890 successful when comparing podcast analytics to itself. What I really like 28 00:01:46.890 --> 00:01:50.480 to look at are you seeing rising totals with each new episode within the first 29 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:54.250 couple of days, right? That kind of shows how many new subscribers you have, 30 00:01:54.740 --> 00:01:58.510 unlike Youtube and podcasting. You don't get to be told how many 31 00:01:58.510 --> 00:02:03.220 subscribers you have Apple and Spotify. Keep that mystery from you. You do not 32 00:02:03.220 --> 00:02:05.890 get to know how many people have actually tapped that subscribe button, 33 00:02:05.900 --> 00:02:10.139 but you can see how many times it's being pulled when you first release it. 34 00:02:10.139 --> 00:02:13.050 So that kind of tells you what it is from all the different platforms. I 35 00:02:13.050 --> 00:02:17.300 want to see that number going up each time or at least on average. You know, 36 00:02:17.300 --> 00:02:20.710 some will go up, some will go down. But is that going up? You also want to take 37 00:02:20.710 --> 00:02:26.550 a look at your total downloads or listeners for the month and that's 38 00:02:26.550 --> 00:02:30.020 because you're back catalogue of episodes will continue to get download. 39 00:02:30.030 --> 00:02:34.960 So you need to look at that as well. Those are the two places to look at. If 40 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:38.390 your podcast is doing well within podcasting itself, outside the 41 00:02:38.390 --> 00:02:40.840 podcasting, just comparing it to your other channels, I like to look at 42 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:45.960 minutes consumed. Is it getting as many minutes consumed as a blog post? The 43 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:49.150 fun thing about a podcast is that you're consuming way more minutes, 44 00:02:49.150 --> 00:02:53.490 right? Somebody is listening to you for 30 to 40 minutes. That's a lot of 45 00:02:53.490 --> 00:02:56.940 engagement. If you take that same engagement to compare apples to apples 46 00:02:56.940 --> 00:03:00.920 with blog post, you're probably getting what, 57 minutes at best with a long 47 00:03:00.920 --> 00:03:04.780 blog post. So just know that it probably won't get the same reach as a 48 00:03:04.780 --> 00:03:08.370 blog post because they can't get founded in many ways. But that 49 00:03:08.370 --> 00:03:11.750 engagement is deeper. So in order to compare more apples to apples, you want 50 00:03:11.750 --> 00:03:17.180 to compare consumption metrics like minutes consumed and the last one is 51 00:03:17.190 --> 00:03:21.240 industry benchmarks. We actually just published a blog post just showcasing 52 00:03:21.250 --> 00:03:24.800 what we've been able to learn after launching 100 plus podcasts of where 53 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:30.160 you can expect if you're in the B two B space, you can see expect to be in like 54 00:03:30.170 --> 00:03:35.430 a month, +16 months in a year in all the way up to two years in. We've had a 55 00:03:35.430 --> 00:03:38.390 number of different podcasts we've managed. So we've kind of Pull those 56 00:03:38.390 --> 00:03:42.910 all together to pull averages for where most BTB podcasts are, at least if 57 00:03:42.910 --> 00:03:46.150 they're working with us, remember off the top of your head and what some of 58 00:03:46.150 --> 00:03:51.150 those numbers are, I want to say it was like in the 1st 30 days, was it around 59 00:03:51.150 --> 00:03:54.790 like 50? Do you do you have those at the top of your head? I'm not on top of 60 00:03:54.790 --> 00:03:58.060 my head, but I can pull it up real quick. It's just in our most recent 61 00:03:58.540 --> 00:04:03.800 blog post here. So within 30 days you can expect about 50 downloads and 90 62 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:11.460 days. You're looking at about 150-200 180 days. 200 a year in about 400 on 63 00:04:11.460 --> 00:04:17.149 average and two years in Around the 800 plus if you've been doing well. And 64 00:04:17.149 --> 00:04:22.900 that's what you can expect to be seen downloads of each episode. Nice. And 65 00:04:22.900 --> 00:04:26.370 I'll link that and put it in the chat for more like an elaboration of 66 00:04:26.370 --> 00:04:30.510 everything I just said. Yeah, just dropped it in the chat too. So that 67 00:04:30.700 --> 00:04:34.430 post is there. If anybody wants to check that out, could I just add 68 00:04:34.430 --> 00:04:38.880 something onto that? What I've seen people do is when they actually use a 69 00:04:38.880 --> 00:04:43.940 landing page with a C. T. A. To share it through their emails or you can even 70 00:04:43.940 --> 00:04:48.180 do it through social media, then what you could do is you can see the site 71 00:04:48.180 --> 00:04:52.340 traffic that's coming onto your landing page. You can see the number of email 72 00:04:52.340 --> 00:04:56.520 sign ups, for example, the open rates on that. And for example, you can see 73 00:04:56.520 --> 00:05:01.600 the engagement rates on your social media channels, like the shares and 74 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:05.660 then the comments and of course, there's people who refer that link to 75 00:05:05.660 --> 00:05:09.950 someone else. Those are some other ways that you can track it as well, which is 76 00:05:09.960 --> 00:05:16.480 outside the podcast itself, Colin you left a comment said, success can also 77 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:19.340 be determined by the content your podcast creates and the engagement 78 00:05:19.340 --> 00:05:23.150 generated from that content Colin Did you want to elaborate on that at all? I 79 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:25.460 don't know if you're if you want to um you know if you're just gonna spot 80 00:05:25.460 --> 00:05:29.150 where you can talk column but I would say that I absolutely agree with that. 81 00:05:29.150 --> 00:05:32.790 The content we've we've created a lot of content through our show B two B 82 00:05:32.790 --> 00:05:37.600 growth that then splinters off and turns into linked in content that we 83 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:42.560 use. So Logan dan and I will jump on it behind the curtain episode, for example 84 00:05:42.570 --> 00:05:45.710 will be talking through a new methodology that we've developed or 85 00:05:45.710 --> 00:05:50.760 some scorecard or model that we're using as it relates to be to be 86 00:05:50.760 --> 00:05:54.940 podcasting, will record the episode, will send it over to our writing team. 87 00:05:54.940 --> 00:05:59.170 MBK who's on this call, she'll turn it into a blog post and then a lot of 88 00:05:59.170 --> 00:06:02.840 times dan Logan myself. Well look at that blog post and we'll be able to 89 00:06:02.840 --> 00:06:06.360 pull different linkedin status updates, we'll end up getting way more 90 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:10.910 attraction. You know, our podcast is uh has quite a bit of reach. Each episode 91 00:06:10.910 --> 00:06:15.400 gets about 2000 downloads but when each of us post something on linked in about 92 00:06:15.400 --> 00:06:19.050 it dan will get you know, 10,000 views on his linkedin status about it. I'll 93 00:06:19.050 --> 00:06:24.320 get you know, 10 or 15,000 views Logan similar. So you look at the the impact 94 00:06:24.320 --> 00:06:28.160 of that piece of content goes far beyond the 2000 people we reached that 95 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:32.910 are subscribed to our show and you start to see that it can go bananas on 96 00:06:32.910 --> 00:06:37.080 other platforms, particular linked in because the organic reaches so crazy 97 00:06:37.080 --> 00:06:40.560 right now, Colin just commented, He said sorry too loud here to on mute 98 00:06:40.840 --> 00:06:45.690 hashtag work ramon awesome. So this next question is from peter Murphy 99 00:06:45.690 --> 00:06:50.520 Lewis and he said, are there any S. O. P. Standard operating procedures that 100 00:06:50.520 --> 00:06:56.440 would make things faster or easier or more consistent rob? I dropped you a 101 00:06:56.440 --> 00:07:01.130 direct message on here, feel free to say no. But with you being a producer 102 00:07:01.130 --> 00:07:05.660 on our team and relatively new to the team having a show before you joined 103 00:07:05.660 --> 00:07:09.170 our team, are there any particular standard operating procedures that you 104 00:07:09.170 --> 00:07:13.030 either had before you join the team or after you joined the team that have 105 00:07:13.030 --> 00:07:16.750 been really really helpful for you? You guys are gonna laugh because everybody 106 00:07:16.750 --> 00:07:20.750 who works for Sweet fish is going to know what I beat the drum of build a. Q. 107 00:07:20.750 --> 00:07:26.490 And then if there is 11 rule I basically have for every single of our 108 00:07:26.490 --> 00:07:29.960 customers that works with me. And the first thing I say to them is if you're 109 00:07:29.960 --> 00:07:34.730 going to have your podcast produced by me, the number one thing we need to do 110 00:07:34.740 --> 00:07:39.780 is build a Q. And the other part of that is almost batch creation as well. 111 00:07:39.790 --> 00:07:44.260 You need to get a day and you need to schedule 234 interviews, maybe it's 112 00:07:44.260 --> 00:07:47.410 gonna be a whole evening. Seriously, I've gotten out of sweet fish and 113 00:07:47.410 --> 00:07:51.890 literally podcasts until 11 PM with yes for my show. And it's really great 114 00:07:51.900 --> 00:07:57.050 because when you are bringing things through in kind of a clump, it not only 115 00:07:57.050 --> 00:08:01.080 lets you kind of, you know, specialists that we all know that if you specialize 116 00:08:01.080 --> 00:08:04.410 in something with the task or something like that is often easily more easily 117 00:08:04.410 --> 00:08:09.560 repeatable. But also again back to the q part, you're able to build this 118 00:08:10.740 --> 00:08:14.960 buffer is the best word I can use where you're not just trying to figure out. 119 00:08:14.970 --> 00:08:19.030 Oh my god, I have a show to launch on Wednesday. And what do I do? You have 120 00:08:19.030 --> 00:08:22.930 four weeks? You have six weeks, for example. Right now, my own show Is 121 00:08:22.930 --> 00:08:27.650 running six weeks ahead of schedule. There is so much more, I can do what 122 00:08:27.650 --> 00:08:31.150 I'm not worried about what I was going to put out this morning in that case. 123 00:08:31.150 --> 00:08:36.159 So that's the number one thing I would say number two, when you go back, when 124 00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:40.659 you finish an episode, there's a couple other things you probably want to do 125 00:08:40.669 --> 00:08:44.230 right after you, you do it. There's a little bit tough to maybe partner with 126 00:08:44.230 --> 00:08:47.830 batch recording but you can uh set aside some time maybe the next day or 127 00:08:47.830 --> 00:08:51.960 something like that. But if you have episodes, you need to listen to them 128 00:08:52.540 --> 00:08:56.280 all the way through and have a notebook. Have a little notebook. Makes a couple 129 00:08:56.280 --> 00:09:02.150 times stamps. When does your show truly start? Where are the flubs in the show? 130 00:09:02.740 --> 00:09:06.030 Where are things that you just want? Cut out screen of screw ups, whatever 131 00:09:06.030 --> 00:09:12.960 it might be. And then Where are the 2-3 like major amazing points that you can 132 00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:17.960 go through and say, man, that is a dynamite line right there. That should 133 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:21.230 be on a poster. And that's what you make your your show graphics out of and 134 00:09:21.230 --> 00:09:23.800 things like that. So, there will be some of the, the standard operating 135 00:09:23.800 --> 00:09:27.040 procedures that I started before I even came to sweet fish. And they're 136 00:09:27.040 --> 00:09:31.020 actually very much very similar to the processes that we use here at sweet 137 00:09:31.020 --> 00:09:35.990 fish for all of our customers. And do you have anything? I know you've built 138 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:40.800 a lot of processes whenever you first came on board. One standard operating 139 00:09:40.800 --> 00:09:44.970 procedure I'm thinking of is around guest outreach and just having even the 140 00:09:44.970 --> 00:09:49.240 scripting that you're going to use to get guests. I would say that part of 141 00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:54.030 that script to get guests needs to involve some level of customization for 142 00:09:54.030 --> 00:09:57.830 why you're asking them to be on the show. We used to just do a simple kind 143 00:09:57.830 --> 00:10:02.320 of like one or two sentence. It didn't have any really personalization in the 144 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:07.560 email and we just found that over time it became increasingly less effective. 145 00:10:07.570 --> 00:10:11.990 But whenever we tell the guest why we want them to be on the show, we still 146 00:10:11.990 --> 00:10:15.540 keep it brief. We try to keep it still 3 to 4 sentences in those in that 147 00:10:15.540 --> 00:10:19.700 outreach. But I think creating a standard operating process around what 148 00:10:19.700 --> 00:10:23.640 your guest outreach is going to look like. Touch one touch to touch three. 149 00:10:23.650 --> 00:10:27.740 Maybe your first touches on linkedin. Maybe your second touches email. Maybe 150 00:10:27.740 --> 00:10:32.270 your third touches is a tweet and having that documented so that it can 151 00:10:32.270 --> 00:10:36.520 be repeatable. But dan any anything else outside of guest outreach that you 152 00:10:36.520 --> 00:10:39.910 can think of. I've done a lot of guts outreach with people that I've just 153 00:10:39.910 --> 00:10:44.220 kind of like bumping into on linkedin. Like even today someone messaged me and 154 00:10:44.220 --> 00:10:48.120 he's been the producer for the Art of Manliness podcast for eight years and 155 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:51.510 is growing at a really large and even though it's not B two B. I was like, 156 00:10:51.520 --> 00:10:54.710 dude, you want to be on the show, I'd love to learn from you, you know, see 157 00:10:54.710 --> 00:10:58.260 what you've done. Even though it's yeah, even though he's in B two C. So like 158 00:10:58.260 --> 00:11:01.210 that's happened organically. But now I'm actually systematically reaching 159 00:11:01.210 --> 00:11:05.060 out to guests that I'd love to have on the show and not all of them are active 160 00:11:05.060 --> 00:11:08.250 on social media. But there's still an advantage to finding them on social 161 00:11:08.250 --> 00:11:11.860 media because I'd really like to do outreach through a channel where 162 00:11:11.860 --> 00:11:15.320 they're active partly because it's easier for them to kind of like check 163 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:20.040 out my profile, see that I'm like legit right? Not just some weird person doing 164 00:11:20.040 --> 00:11:23.980 mass emailing them. Um But even then I can go and kind of creep on their 165 00:11:23.980 --> 00:11:26.990 profiles, look at them on linkedin twitter and instagram, see that they're 166 00:11:26.990 --> 00:11:30.960 active on none of them. Which is actually like I find is like 80 of the 167 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:34.600 case they post every once in a while but they're not really active on social. 168 00:11:34.610 --> 00:11:37.550 It's probably because they're killing it and their work you know at work and 169 00:11:37.550 --> 00:11:41.420 then they go home, right? And that's okay. But still finding something on 170 00:11:41.420 --> 00:11:45.430 those profiles that you can reference to get them to want to be a guest on 171 00:11:45.430 --> 00:11:50.120 the show and one you use like Hunter dot Io to find their email, right? Then 172 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:53.260 you can email and be like, hey, I saw that you were into this. I'd love to 173 00:11:53.260 --> 00:11:57.420 talk to you about that on the show. That little personal. I saw that That's 174 00:11:57.420 --> 00:12:00.440 going to make a huge difference in actually getting them to respond to 175 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:04.230 your your outreach. Yeah. It doesn't necessarily need to be from their 176 00:12:04.230 --> 00:12:07.560 personal profile either. It can be an observation of something that their 177 00:12:07.560 --> 00:12:11.390 company did. Could be something like that. Right? The pile right on top of 178 00:12:11.390 --> 00:12:14.110 that dan. This is a concept I introduced into my own show, which is 179 00:12:14.110 --> 00:12:17.460 about hunting for jobs and things like that, I call it micro networking, 180 00:12:17.470 --> 00:12:22.450 because you're looking for that one piece of content that's probably on 181 00:12:22.450 --> 00:12:27.060 their Killington page. Probably somewhere in the social fabric of what 182 00:12:27.070 --> 00:12:33.330 that guest is. That is the literal achilles heel to their heart to say, oh, 183 00:12:33.340 --> 00:12:37.890 you asked about this. Sure, I'll be on your show. I mean it's really an 184 00:12:37.890 --> 00:12:43.310 interesting kind of thing where you can get very big buy in from somebody by 185 00:12:43.310 --> 00:12:48.090 asking about the right thing. All right, anybody anybody else have any thoughts 186 00:12:48.090 --> 00:12:51.130 on S. O PS that they've developed standard operating procedures that 187 00:12:51.130 --> 00:12:56.070 they've developed around around their podcasts. That would be helpful. Yeah, 188 00:12:56.070 --> 00:13:01.940 I kind of adding on to what James you said and rob and dan. I mean that's 189 00:13:01.940 --> 00:13:06.200 what I call the planning phase, you know, to be ready for the podcast. 190 00:13:06.210 --> 00:13:10.400 There's also the setup phase where you have to actually make sure you have the 191 00:13:10.400 --> 00:13:16.250 equipment, the tools, the right stuff. And there's also um what you call the 192 00:13:16.260 --> 00:13:21.280 recording phase when you make sure everything works, uh editing all of 193 00:13:21.280 --> 00:13:26.680 that and then afterwards there's the production phase, the post production 194 00:13:26.680 --> 00:13:32.300 base where you make sure the final checkups. You know, I kind of actually 195 00:13:32.300 --> 00:13:39.100 used like a test team on social media where I could just send out like a demo 196 00:13:39.100 --> 00:13:43.750 version and get some live feedback that could give you lots of the inputs and 197 00:13:43.750 --> 00:13:49.610 ideas and maybe identify some mistakes that you've done. And finally, um of 198 00:13:49.610 --> 00:13:55.160 course you've got the distribution and promotion uh phase, just like a set of 199 00:13:55.160 --> 00:13:59.300 phases that you constantly have to use uh to make sure that you have 200 00:13:59.310 --> 00:14:05.690 everything covered from start scratch from the end, start to end. Yeah. Hi 201 00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:10.340 dan Sanchez here with a quick break from this episode, sponsor Vidyard. 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And just like you guys, the team at Vidyard 211 00:14:52.780 --> 00:14:57.040 can't keep up with all these promo codes on podcasts so they are making 212 00:14:57.040 --> 00:15:01.890 signing up as easy as possible, so no promo code needed. Just go to Vidyard 213 00:15:01.890 --> 00:15:06.890 dot com slash GDP growth. So start using vidyard completely free and as a 214 00:15:06.890 --> 00:15:13.760 bonus get their 2021 B two B video trans guide. Yeah, I really like the 215 00:15:13.760 --> 00:15:17.240 way you broke it down in in phases there numbness James. I was just gonna 216 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:20.770 throw something out there. I know that there's you know, depending on if 217 00:15:20.770 --> 00:15:25.020 they're working with you guys or however people are doing their guest 218 00:15:25.020 --> 00:15:30.640 booking. I also attach a best practices document around, hey, here's how you're 219 00:15:30.640 --> 00:15:33.650 going to be on camera, here's how the background should be set up, you know, 220 00:15:33.650 --> 00:15:36.720 making sure they close that applications, how the format of the 221 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:40.480 show works, links to past episodes. They can see how that works. Um and 222 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:43.150 that just educates everybody and tell them, please read this two days in 223 00:15:43.150 --> 00:15:46.170 advance so they don't show up and then you know, not have something set up at 224 00:15:46.170 --> 00:15:48.950 the last minute. So that was another thing that's been pretty helpful for me. 225 00:15:49.140 --> 00:15:54.580 That's great. I I don't see jeremy from our team on this call. I was just on a 226 00:15:54.580 --> 00:15:57.860 call with them before we jumped on here. But that's something that Jeremy spends 227 00:15:57.860 --> 00:16:02.480 a lot of time on with our customers is making sure that our customers know how 228 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:06.650 to best prep their guests to make sure that that is a pretty common question. 229 00:16:06.650 --> 00:16:11.030 I would say that we get is around uh and I know we had this last week to but 230 00:16:11.040 --> 00:16:15.110 around what, you know, what kind of equipment does our customers guests 231 00:16:15.110 --> 00:16:20.320 need to have And we found that we don't send microphones to our, all of our 232 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:24.850 customers guests. That would get pretty crazy if you, if you send podcast 233 00:16:24.850 --> 00:16:29.450 equipment to everyone, but dan. anything else related to what can just 234 00:16:29.450 --> 00:16:35.280 mentioned that comes top of mind for you around kind of the host and guest 235 00:16:35.280 --> 00:16:40.120 relationship, any any S. O PS or processes that can streamline that. I 236 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:43.070 mean there's quite a few and it kind of depends on like what you're trying to 237 00:16:43.070 --> 00:16:45.480 get out of the episode, whether you're coming at it from an account based 238 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:49.210 marketing approach or just a general content marketing approach or a thought 239 00:16:49.210 --> 00:16:54.090 leadership approach. It kind of depends there's nuances with all of them so I 240 00:16:54.090 --> 00:16:57.170 kind of want to know when I'm usually when I'm meeting with customers, I'm 241 00:16:57.170 --> 00:17:00.970 kind of digging into the specifics in order to customize their approach on 242 00:17:00.970 --> 00:17:05.359 there, what's going to be there? S O. P raj just asked a question in the chat, 243 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:08.930 he said would you recommend having guests sign a release? We should write 244 00:17:08.930 --> 00:17:15.349 a blog post on this semi because we get this a lot. I never request guests sign 245 00:17:15.349 --> 00:17:19.839 a release. I think the biggest reason why I don't ask guests to sign a 246 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:24.819 release is because I want there to be as little friction as possible between 247 00:17:24.829 --> 00:17:27.420 asking them to be on the show and actually getting to build a 248 00:17:27.420 --> 00:17:30.490 relationship with them and create content with them and asking them to 249 00:17:30.490 --> 00:17:35.750 sign a release. Just feels like it's unnecessary friction. When someone is 250 00:17:35.750 --> 00:17:39.100 saying yes to being a guest on your show, they obviously know that that's 251 00:17:39.110 --> 00:17:43.490 it's not it's content that you own and that you're going to be able to use use 252 00:17:43.490 --> 00:17:47.850 that. So I guess I'm not real worried about the legal ramifications of what 253 00:17:47.850 --> 00:17:51.270 they would do, knock on wood that nothing like that has ever happened 254 00:17:51.270 --> 00:17:55.210 with us or our customers. But if anybody else has a counter thought to 255 00:17:55.210 --> 00:17:59.650 that, I'm happy to hear somebody, you know, make a case for why, I can 256 00:17:59.650 --> 00:18:03.510 certainly see why. But at the same time, like I just got asked to sign a release 257 00:18:03.510 --> 00:18:07.460 this morning for another podcast as I was on, I'm like, I just feel like ask 258 00:18:07.460 --> 00:18:10.860 the release piece feels like official, it feels professional, but at the same 259 00:18:10.860 --> 00:18:14.620 time, I had a mentor tell me once like don't apply big business processes to 260 00:18:14.620 --> 00:18:18.690 smaller businesses. If you work for google, then you should probably have a 261 00:18:18.690 --> 00:18:21.580 release because google's got a big target on it said they know there's 262 00:18:21.580 --> 00:18:24.590 lots of money there. If there's any ran like random thing they can go after, 263 00:18:24.590 --> 00:18:28.740 like they'll go after you. So you kind of have to weigh like the liability and 264 00:18:28.740 --> 00:18:32.830 the risk associated with it. It's kind of gonna be dependent on the type of 265 00:18:32.830 --> 00:18:35.970 people you're talking to, the types of things you're talking about. But 266 00:18:35.970 --> 00:18:40.120 generally in business to business, if if your companies like startup or 267 00:18:40.120 --> 00:18:44.970 midsize even it's kind of like uh Where 2000 episodes and it hasn't been a 268 00:18:44.970 --> 00:18:49.280 problem. And a lot of our customers are much larger than us and it hasn't, and 269 00:18:49.280 --> 00:18:53.510 we're not very few of them are doing it And it hasn't been a problem in any of 270 00:18:53.510 --> 00:18:57.970 those cases. And we're publishing a ton of episodes beyond our own show every 271 00:18:57.980 --> 00:19:01.710 single week. So, but again, it's one of those things where like you have to 272 00:19:01.710 --> 00:19:04.910 consult your lawyer to see now, if you actually consult a lawyer, of course 273 00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:07.570 they'll come, they'll come up with 50 reasons why you should do it because 274 00:19:07.570 --> 00:19:10.910 they're lawyers and that's what they get to think about. Again, I don't 275 00:19:10.910 --> 00:19:14.940 think applying big business processes too small, smaller and medium sized 276 00:19:14.940 --> 00:19:18.760 companies is a good idea. One of the things that I actually do for my own 277 00:19:18.760 --> 00:19:24.930 show is that I don't have a release per se, but I've had to kind of sort of 278 00:19:24.930 --> 00:19:29.650 like micro releases if you will. Uh one was in my guest form like, hey, I agree 279 00:19:29.650 --> 00:19:33.490 to be on the show and not so rob if anything is going down the road, you 280 00:19:33.490 --> 00:19:36.600 know, things like that. But the one that I really found was useful is I 281 00:19:36.600 --> 00:19:40.970 just roll it into the Kind of the prep document that I send to my guests that 282 00:19:40.970 --> 00:19:43.810 says, you know, Hey, it's going to take about an hour and 15 minutes of your 283 00:19:43.810 --> 00:19:47.580 time as far as recording and you know what, by agreeing to appear on the show. 284 00:19:47.590 --> 00:19:52.050 Uh You hold me, you're basically giving me content is what it boils down to and 285 00:19:52.050 --> 00:19:55.670 that's worked really well. Nobody's ever, you know, with a couple companies 286 00:19:55.670 --> 00:19:59.070 have been working with with my show, nobody's ever turned up their nose to 287 00:19:59.070 --> 00:20:01.640 it or anything like that, You know, basically is just to protect and make 288 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:06.230 sure I can always have an episode 17, I've found that at least with me 289 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:10.630 because I'm in the podcasting space obviously and have been doing this for 290 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:14.540 half a decade, I get asked to be on a lot of shows and I just can speak from 291 00:20:14.540 --> 00:20:19.480 the guests perspective as someone who gets asked to be on a lot of shows. Now, 292 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:23.490 this isn't going to be the case for a lot of you because a lot of you are 293 00:20:23.500 --> 00:20:27.350 interviewing kind of industry experts where there's not a lot of shows in 294 00:20:27.350 --> 00:20:31.410 that industry, so they're not getting asked to be on a lot of shows, but from 295 00:20:31.410 --> 00:20:36.340 my perspective, the least amount of friction as possible that you're going 296 00:20:36.340 --> 00:20:41.440 to require of me to be on the show, the better chris walker has mentioned this 297 00:20:41.450 --> 00:20:44.970 uh in a similar way, and on some content that I've created on linkedin 298 00:20:44.970 --> 00:20:48.770 around pre interviews. Again, I'm a huge advocate for pre interviews, but 299 00:20:48.780 --> 00:20:51.820 when you're talking to someone who is accustomed to doing a lot of media, a 300 00:20:51.820 --> 00:20:57.220 lot of podcast interviews, it ends up just kind of being annoying and not 301 00:20:57.230 --> 00:21:00.190 super helpful because they already know what they're gonna say, they've written 302 00:21:00.190 --> 00:21:04.310 a book about it, or they they're speaking on stages about it. So, I what 303 00:21:04.310 --> 00:21:08.300 you mentioned there rob I think is super helpful for folks, especially if 304 00:21:08.300 --> 00:21:11.410 you're interviewing a lot of practitioners that are not on a lot of 305 00:21:11.410 --> 00:21:16.350 shows, I think they probably want that context, uh and they want to know more. 306 00:21:16.360 --> 00:21:20.070 They want to feel like they're really prepared going into it. This last 307 00:21:20.070 --> 00:21:24.910 question is again, one that we see a lot, um, and it's around uh, 308 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:27.650 specifically around, you know, are there any templates or things that you 309 00:21:27.650 --> 00:21:33.150 do to get guests to share and post the podcast on their channels or on their 310 00:21:33.150 --> 00:21:38.120 blog? This is something I've found dan rob you all anybody else on this call, 311 00:21:38.120 --> 00:21:43.800 you might have some some other thoughts here. But my take on this is I have 312 00:21:43.800 --> 00:21:49.260 just found it to be like pulling teeth, trying to get anyone to share your 313 00:21:49.260 --> 00:21:54.460 content. And I see a lot of podcasters make the mistake of intentionally going 314 00:21:54.460 --> 00:22:00.190 after influential people to be guests on their show because they think, oh, 315 00:22:00.190 --> 00:22:04.150 if I get Gary V on the podcast, he's going to share it with his channel and 316 00:22:04.150 --> 00:22:08.510 it's gonna blow up my podcast and I'm going to get all this, all this new 317 00:22:08.510 --> 00:22:12.410 exposure, all these new listeners, because Gary V shared my podcast. So 318 00:22:12.410 --> 00:22:15.770 they go and they interview Gary V and they do the Grant Cardone thing and 319 00:22:15.770 --> 00:22:20.590 they do all these other influencers. And to me that that strategy is flawed 320 00:22:20.590 --> 00:22:25.400 because people that have gained an enormous amount of influence online 321 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:29.420 have done so by creating their own content. So there's not a lot of 322 00:22:29.420 --> 00:22:33.630 incentive for them to share your content when they've already got a 323 00:22:33.630 --> 00:22:38.000 machine behind them, building their own content, the incentive and they should 324 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.710 be right. They should be like, they're obviously, they're incentivized to 325 00:22:41.710 --> 00:22:46.970 share their own stuff as opposed to to sharing yours. And so I try not to, 326 00:22:46.970 --> 00:22:52.400 it's not that you should completely punt trying to get your guest to share 327 00:22:52.410 --> 00:22:57.050 the content that you create with them. I think if you do a nice, well designed 328 00:22:57.050 --> 00:23:02.470 linked in carousel deck, I think they're more likely to promote it. But 329 00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:06.350 I think, you know, I don't think the strategy of the show and the audience 330 00:23:06.350 --> 00:23:12.160 growth tactic that is primarily deployed should be hinging on whether 331 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:16.520 someone else promotes it because it's an additional thing for them. And just 332 00:23:16.520 --> 00:23:19.650 after doing hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of these things, I've just 333 00:23:19.650 --> 00:23:22.880 seen time and time again getting the guests to do anything with the content 334 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:29.540 afterwards is not very doable. So instead use that content that you 335 00:23:29.540 --> 00:23:34.420 create and repurposed from the show and have other people in your company share 336 00:23:34.420 --> 00:23:39.370 that content. So instead of just having them share a link to the episode, all 337 00:23:39.370 --> 00:23:43.480 of the different assets you create, micro videos, blog posts, carousel 338 00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:49.160 decks for linked in all these different media types use it for evangelists on 339 00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:54.590 your team to use this is something I want to get better at sweet fish and if 340 00:23:54.590 --> 00:23:59.150 the guest uses it awesome. But if they don't use it, that content is not 341 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:03.600 wasted because you've got other people on your team that are using that 342 00:24:03.600 --> 00:24:08.440 content to get the show out in front of as many people as you can, uh, will add 343 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:12.400 something on that. I might be lagging here, but I'm not sure what I used to 344 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:17.420 do was, um, whenever I actually finished an interview or a podcast show 345 00:24:17.420 --> 00:24:23.650 with someone, I would produce a short video snippet and just hand it over to 346 00:24:23.650 --> 00:24:27.630 them through email and whether they shared or not, that's a plus. I mean if 347 00:24:27.630 --> 00:24:30.820 they shared as a plus for me, if not, they can use it for something else and 348 00:24:30.830 --> 00:24:34.320 trust me, they will, you use it for something else? Because some of the 349 00:24:34.320 --> 00:24:38.210 people, they would like to show that, hey, I've been on this podcast show, I 350 00:24:38.210 --> 00:24:41.910 had some important things to do here is a little stupid of mind, go and listen 351 00:24:41.910 --> 00:24:47.130 to it. And then afterwards, what I started doing was I started asking, um, 352 00:24:47.140 --> 00:24:51.480 do you want us to give you a short snippet? You know, and I didn't say yes, 353 00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:55.500 I give it. If not, I don't give it. And it seemed to work for me. That's a 354 00:24:55.500 --> 00:24:59.040 great point. I think asking them, you're, you're gonna save yourself a 355 00:24:59.040 --> 00:25:02.090 lot of time and effort. I think in creating assets that never see the 356 00:25:02.090 --> 00:25:05.620 light today. If you just ask them, they would you like us to create something. 357 00:25:05.620 --> 00:25:10.890 I know there was one show that I was on growth marketing camp with Rex 358 00:25:10.900 --> 00:25:16.050 Roberston and they did a really well designed linked in slide deck for me 359 00:25:16.140 --> 00:25:21.500 and I wanted to use it because as a content creator I'm looking for, I'm 360 00:25:21.500 --> 00:25:25.220 looking for content to create, I didn't have anything on a particular day and I 361 00:25:25.220 --> 00:25:28.130 was able to go back and use that because it's a novel, it's a novel 362 00:25:28.130 --> 00:25:32.160 piece of content. If you're really good at writing linkedin, status updates, 363 00:25:32.160 --> 00:25:36.830 Text only status updates, that's something that me as a creator, like if 364 00:25:36.830 --> 00:25:41.220 it's if it's well written and it's done well now a lot, I would say that 365 00:25:41.220 --> 00:25:45.940 Lincoln status updates are not usually done well and so that's, you have to 366 00:25:45.940 --> 00:25:50.060 make sure like, okay, does my own content do really well on linked in if, 367 00:25:50.060 --> 00:25:54.530 so then I've clearly figured out something about the platform and I can 368 00:25:54.530 --> 00:25:59.510 apply this ghost writing for my guest content as well. But I think a lot of 369 00:25:59.510 --> 00:26:04.890 times the content that gets repurposed is just kind of like, I don't know, 370 00:26:04.890 --> 00:26:10.670 half asked content. Honestly, it's it's not it's not great and because of that, 371 00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:14.270 the guest isn't going to be incentivized, I'll share a story. The 372 00:26:14.270 --> 00:26:18.420 real quick one of our customers, he went to Gary V's office and actually 373 00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:23.060 interviewed Gary V. And because it was, you know, a compelling piece of content 374 00:26:23.060 --> 00:26:28.220 there, Videographer dirac was there. Gary V ended up doing a lot with the 375 00:26:28.220 --> 00:26:33.490 content that this particular customer recorded with him. And they did this 376 00:26:33.490 --> 00:26:37.550 whole little sketch, he went on a rant about like being peter pan or some 377 00:26:37.550 --> 00:26:42.400 character. And so Gary V social team was able to do a lot with that little 378 00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:47.830 rant that Gary did on our customers show. So even Gary V like having as 379 00:26:47.830 --> 00:26:52.270 much reach as he does all the resources that he puts into creating content. 380 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:59.850 Used this guys content. And I think made mention briefly that this was this 381 00:26:59.850 --> 00:27:04.130 was a part of, you know, the Cannonball mindset podcast, but I still do not 382 00:27:04.130 --> 00:27:09.170 think that it moved the needle really hardly at all. If you were to look at 383 00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:14.510 this guy's podcast, downloads prior to that happening and post, I think he 384 00:27:14.510 --> 00:27:18.790 would tell you that it wasn't a massive needle mover and that was with Gary V, 385 00:27:18.790 --> 00:27:24.850 the guy who showed all of us how to how to do social well, putting his entire 386 00:27:24.850 --> 00:27:29.810 engine behind promoting a particular clip from this guy's show. So I just 387 00:27:29.810 --> 00:27:34.500 think it goes to show that spending a lot of time trying to get someone else 388 00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:39.920 to share your content can be a fool's errand. Don't forget to ask them, Ask 389 00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:44.470 them anyway, but don't expect anything from it. That's the biggest thing. I'm 390 00:27:44.470 --> 00:27:50.330 glad you said that rob ask but don't expect. And I see a lot of people go in, 391 00:27:50.330 --> 00:27:54.710 a lot of people go in with expectations and then they get pissed when the guest 392 00:27:54.710 --> 00:27:58.140 doesn't share it and it's like you don't want that to muddy up the 393 00:27:58.140 --> 00:28:01.290 relationship. That relationship with that guest could end up being 394 00:28:01.290 --> 00:28:05.660 incredibly strategic for you and your company. But if you've got bitterness 395 00:28:05.660 --> 00:28:09.820 toward them because they didn't share your episode then it's like who cares 396 00:28:09.820 --> 00:28:13.960 like the relationship with that guest is significant can be very significant. 397 00:28:14.040 --> 00:28:17.570 Don't get mad at them if they don't share it, people are busy, it's not 398 00:28:17.570 --> 00:28:21.430 their first priority. Uh But we do get that question a lot, so I'm glad this 399 00:28:21.430 --> 00:28:24.690 one came up, we're at the we're at the top of the hour now I've actually got 400 00:28:24.700 --> 00:28:28.110 my I just saw that my my next one on one jumped onto the line so we gotta 401 00:28:28.110 --> 00:28:32.900 jump off here. But thank you all for for joining. And we'll be back here 402 00:28:32.900 --> 00:28:39.980 again at At 2:30 eastern time, next Wednesday. So we'll see all them. Yeah. 403 00:28:40.740 --> 00:28:44.820 Mhm. It's sweet fish. We're on a mission to create the most helpful 404 00:28:44.820 --> 00:28:49.880 content on the internet for every job function and industry on the planet for 405 00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:53.200 the B two B marketing industry. This show is how we're executing on that 406 00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:57.010 mission. If you know a marketing leader, that would be an awesome guest for this 407 00:28:57.010 --> 00:29:00.990 podcast. Shoot me a text message. Don't call me because I don't answer unknown 408 00:29:00.990 --> 00:29:07.560 numbers, but text me At 4074 and I know 3 3-8. Just shoot me their name may be 409 00:29:07.560 --> 00:29:11.480 a link to their linkedin profile and I'd love to check them out to see if we 410 00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:13.450 can get them on the show. Thanks a lot.