How To Use Data to Predict Buyer Intent

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.740 --> 00:00:10.110 Hi everyone, welcome back to be, to be growth. My name is Olivia Hurley and 2 00:00:10.110 --> 00:00:15.060 today I am joined by Carrie Cunningham where you are the senior principal in 3 00:00:15.060 --> 00:00:20.310 product marketing at six cents. I'm thrilled to talk to you today because 4 00:00:20.310 --> 00:00:24.060 you shared with me the last time we talked this really unique perspective 5 00:00:24.070 --> 00:00:28.480 in the way of A B. M. That I'm really excited to impact because A B. M 6 00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:33.140 extremely popular. We hear a lot about the front side of setting a strategy in 7 00:00:33.140 --> 00:00:38.610 motion, But I've heard hardly anything about this, not only 30,000 ft view, 8 00:00:38.610 --> 00:00:42.900 but but the start to finish, um, motion. And so I'm excited to unpack some of 9 00:00:42.900 --> 00:00:46.290 that with not only your experience as a marketing practitioner, but as a 10 00:00:46.290 --> 00:00:50.810 researcher coming from forster, could you share what you shared with me the 11 00:00:50.810 --> 00:00:54.320 last time we talked. Yeah, absolutely. I love too. And thanks for having me 12 00:00:54.320 --> 00:01:00.990 today. So one of the, there's kind of a misunderstanding in B2B today about uh, 13 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:05.069 account-based marketing and and how it came into being and what it's really 14 00:01:05.069 --> 00:01:10.400 supposed to be. And as you and I talked about before, what's really true is 15 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:14.150 that back in the old days, back when I started in my career and B two B 16 00:01:14.540 --> 00:01:20.060 everything was account based because nobody had any leads. And so if you 17 00:01:20.060 --> 00:01:23.420 were going to sell to a certain set of accounts as an organization, you have 18 00:01:23.420 --> 00:01:27.580 to understand what that set of accounts was. And then marketing's job was 19 00:01:27.580 --> 00:01:32.230 really just to create content and things to enable sales teams to go 20 00:01:32.230 --> 00:01:36.120 penetrate those accounts. So back in the old days, marketing and sales were 21 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:40.640 pretty well aligned on what to do and it was account based because there 22 00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:44.550 wasn't really any other options, So we're not saying that's great. But then 23 00:01:44.550 --> 00:01:51.180 along in the late 1990s, early 2000s came digital marketing and particularly 24 00:01:51.180 --> 00:01:57.190 when marketing automation came along a little bit later on, we started getting 25 00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:01.360 this influx of inbound leads people coming to our websites and filling out 26 00:02:01.360 --> 00:02:06.710 forms or responding to emails and in a sense, the B to B industry kind of got 27 00:02:06.710 --> 00:02:11.960 drunk on that. I mean it was pretty cool after struggling to just do 28 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:16.070 outbound prospecting forever from the beginning of time. Now you have people 29 00:02:16.070 --> 00:02:18.870 coming and telling you who they were and what they were interested in and 30 00:02:18.870 --> 00:02:24.280 give you their contact information. Pretty hard not to get drunk on that if 31 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:25.950 you will and kind of over indulged. 32 00:02:27.040 --> 00:02:32.240 But what happened during the period of time is that B two B organizations sort 33 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:37.890 of forgot that the buyer would be to be is not an individual person. You may 34 00:02:37.890 --> 00:02:41.950 get somebody to come to your website from a target account, fill out a form, 35 00:02:42.640 --> 00:02:48.580 but they're very, very unlikely to be acting alone. The research that we did 36 00:02:48.590 --> 00:02:54.300 at serious decisions in Forrester Show there's something like between 85 and 37 00:02:54.300 --> 00:02:59.940 95% of B2B purchases are made by groups of people acting together and the 38 00:02:59.950 --> 00:03:03.880 number that varies, there is really just because if you're selling an 39 00:03:03.880 --> 00:03:07.990 enterprise solution to a company, if you're selling something that's an 40 00:03:07.990 --> 00:03:11.660 important business system to an organization of pretty much any size, 41 00:03:12.040 --> 00:03:14.800 it's going to be multiple people involved in that decision making 42 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:19.770 process, just like the simplest thing that everybody knows intuitively. But 43 00:03:19.770 --> 00:03:24.900 when you think about how that works, then when somebody comes to your 44 00:03:24.900 --> 00:03:29.790 website, if they're from a target account, if they're actually going to 45 00:03:29.790 --> 00:03:34.830 buy something from your organization, they won't be alone. Right? That's the 46 00:03:34.830 --> 00:03:38.320 key thing to understand about this, is that person that you see filling out 47 00:03:38.320 --> 00:03:42.550 the form. If they don't come with friends, their organizations not buying 48 00:03:42.550 --> 00:03:47.540 anything if they're the only one on your website. They're curious, uh 49 00:03:47.550 --> 00:03:51.870 they're interested in your solutions for professional reasons, maybe they're 50 00:03:51.870 --> 00:03:55.940 interested in the job or checking out the competition to their own solutions 51 00:03:55.940 --> 00:04:00.330 or something, but they're not about to buy anything. Now, it was very 52 00:04:00.330 --> 00:04:05.890 difficult in existing systems though to see whether that's happening. So if 53 00:04:05.890 --> 00:04:11.270 you're relying on marketing automation, typical marketing automation systems 54 00:04:11.270 --> 00:04:16.810 that most organizations use, you can't see that there are multiple people from 55 00:04:16.810 --> 00:04:21.160 the same organization demonstrating interest at the same time, leads come 56 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:25.230 in, somebody fills out a form and you may do some lead scoring if they 57 00:04:25.230 --> 00:04:29.930 consume a bunch of content, uh and then you pass that along to an SDR B or 58 00:04:29.930 --> 00:04:33.770 somebody like that. And and and these leads, these individuals just come in 59 00:04:33.770 --> 00:04:37.800 one at a time. And the thing that you miss in that picture is, well, maybe 60 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:41.540 you've gotten three or four leads from the same organization just in the last 61 00:04:41.540 --> 00:04:42.360 couple of weeks 62 00:04:43.540 --> 00:04:47.100 and you'd like to think that somebody along the way would notice that that 63 00:04:47.100 --> 00:04:50.700 was happening and we think to themselves, wait a minute. You know, 64 00:04:50.710 --> 00:04:53.480 there's something happening in this organization. We've got three or four 65 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:59.390 leads. Unfortunately, just the opposite happens. What happens most of the time 66 00:04:59.390 --> 00:05:04.910 in that circumstance is that the second lead goes to the same PDR process, the 67 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:09.670 first one. And let's say that the BDR produced an opportunity for sales from 68 00:05:09.670 --> 00:05:12.830 the first lead that came in, they get the second one, they look at it and 69 00:05:12.830 --> 00:05:17.280 they go, well, I can't get another opportunity here because I just passed 70 00:05:17.280 --> 00:05:23.970 one along and sales is working on that as a BDR s, I can't get paid now for 71 00:05:23.970 --> 00:05:28.710 working on that because I get paid for producing opportunities. So to me, 72 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:33.540 that's a duplicate lead, we already have an opportunity for that. Uh, and 73 00:05:33.540 --> 00:05:36.120 then the third one comes along and the fourth one comes along and the market 74 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:41.470 all duplicates and off they go into the ether, when rationally, if you step 75 00:05:41.470 --> 00:05:44.720 back and look at what's happening, you be like your hair would be on fire to 76 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:48.810 be like, oh my God, these people are really interested, we need to make sure 77 00:05:48.810 --> 00:05:53.030 that sales knows about that, that everybody takes appropriate action. It 78 00:05:53.030 --> 00:05:57.190 just isn't the way it works. And B two B. Today. So you know, when you think 79 00:05:57.190 --> 00:06:02.870 about, you know, part of what the A B. M. Movement and B two B was trying to 80 00:06:02.870 --> 00:06:07.410 do is correct for that. Just like, okay, that's, you know, all of these leads 81 00:06:07.410 --> 00:06:09.700 are nice, but if they're not in the right account, if we don't have 82 00:06:09.700 --> 00:06:15.260 multiple of them. But the problem then is that the systems that are in place 83 00:06:15.300 --> 00:06:21.920 operate the same way that they do. So A BM. You try your A B. M. Program, but 84 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:25.220 if they're operating on top of the old systems that you have just marketing 85 00:06:25.220 --> 00:06:29.940 automation, in sales force automation, uh you're still not going to see that 86 00:06:29.940 --> 00:06:33.110 you have these multiple leads and you're still relying on some human 87 00:06:33.110 --> 00:06:36.540 being to notice and then do something different than what they would normally 88 00:06:36.540 --> 00:06:41.530 do sometimes happens, but most of us don't want to run a company on that 89 00:06:41.530 --> 00:06:45.480 sometimes happens, right? Not really what we want to have the organization 90 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:50.150 based on. So that's what we're trying to do is make it possible to see those 91 00:06:50.150 --> 00:06:54.790 find teams, those multiple individuals and all of the various kinds of signals 92 00:06:54.790 --> 00:06:58.830 that they give off on the way to making a purchase decision for their 93 00:06:58.830 --> 00:07:03.300 organizations. That's fascinating to me. I'm super excited to talk about this. 94 00:07:03.300 --> 00:07:07.480 So, so right off the bat my questions are around this lead scoring process. 95 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:13.040 So In the 90s, I think you said lead scoring is new. We all got drunk off of 96 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:18.650 it. Um, well I was four maybe, so I don't think I was people drug. 97 00:07:20.010 --> 00:07:25.110 Yes, I would have been. We've been so excited. So can you share a little bit 98 00:07:25.110 --> 00:07:29.500 about what, why lead scoring was inaccurate and some of those 99 00:07:29.500 --> 00:07:33.790 assumptions that it was based on? Yes, sure. So you know, one of the things 100 00:07:33.790 --> 00:07:37.930 that, it makes total sense that when you have people coming to your website, 101 00:07:37.930 --> 00:07:42.050 they start consuming content. You want to see which ones are really interested 102 00:07:42.050 --> 00:07:45.300 in which ones are not. And that's, that's why we have the scoring scoring 103 00:07:45.300 --> 00:07:48.100 is there to say, you know, it's just the right kind of person that's part of 104 00:07:48.100 --> 00:07:51.380 the score and then are they demonstrating a lot of interest or 105 00:07:51.380 --> 00:07:55.630 maybe they just came by our website by accident. Now if you're a B2B 106 00:07:55.630 --> 00:08:00.090 organization, it's very unlikely that people come to your website by accident. 107 00:08:00.100 --> 00:08:04.480 You know, your graphics aren't so great that people are coming to come and look 108 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:08.360 at what you're doing in that respect. So it sort of made sense to say, well 109 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:12.010 we want to ferret out the really interested ones and make sure that we 110 00:08:12.010 --> 00:08:14.900 can see those and the way that we're going to do that is, we're going to 111 00:08:14.900 --> 00:08:18.900 look at how much content a person consumes on our website and if they 112 00:08:18.900 --> 00:08:24.060 consume a lot will score that and then we'll send the ones that consumed a lot 113 00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:28.870 more content on to the rest of the organization. Uh, that seemed like it 114 00:08:28.870 --> 00:08:33.770 made sense at the time. There is a kind of logic to it. The problem is, I've 115 00:08:33.770 --> 00:08:38.260 never seen any evidence nor has anybody else. I think That there's a 116 00:08:38.260 --> 00:08:42.880 relationship between how much content one individual person consumes and 117 00:08:42.880 --> 00:08:48.080 whether their company is about to buy something. So lots of people go to 118 00:08:48.090 --> 00:08:53.370 websites and look at content for lots of different reasons. And some of those 119 00:08:53.370 --> 00:08:57.860 reasons have to do with being part of a buying team. Many don't, most don't. 120 00:08:58.340 --> 00:09:01.910 And so most people are, they're just looking at your content out of maybe 121 00:09:01.910 --> 00:09:06.820 some future interest. So past interest, but they're not part of an act of 122 00:09:06.820 --> 00:09:10.010 buying team. How do you tell if they're part of an act of buying team? Well, 123 00:09:10.010 --> 00:09:14.330 like we just said a minute ago, they came with friends, right? So now if you 124 00:09:14.330 --> 00:09:18.470 had two people from the same organization and they're both consuming 125 00:09:18.470 --> 00:09:22.920 a lot of content, that's a much much stronger indication of their 126 00:09:22.930 --> 00:09:28.210 organization's interest than it is just one person. And if you add a third 127 00:09:28.210 --> 00:09:32.610 person, you think, wow, okay, something's really happening here, 128 00:09:32.620 --> 00:09:36.660 Right? So you can take that old lead score that by itself doesn't actually 129 00:09:36.660 --> 00:09:40.400 mean much. And this is why marketing and sales have been divided on this 130 00:09:40.400 --> 00:09:43.300 issue for so long. Marketing's been saying, hey, here's this guy is 131 00:09:43.300 --> 00:09:47.060 consumed. A lot of content has a nice title and sales has to follow up with 132 00:09:47.060 --> 00:09:50.080 that person when they do what they find out is that person was just consuming a 133 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:53.800 lot of content, not part of the buying team. And so that's what we have to 134 00:09:53.800 --> 00:09:56.710 figure out. We have to figure out which ones are actually part of a buying 135 00:09:56.710 --> 00:10:02.190 process and that's the one that sales needs to focus on. Okay, so the buyer 136 00:10:02.190 --> 00:10:06.610 is not a person, an individual person and and I love what you said to me last 137 00:10:06.610 --> 00:10:11.680 time you said the buyer is not an account and I love that you said that's 138 00:10:11.680 --> 00:10:18.910 not as wrong, but it's well wrong. So the buyer is now a group of people 139 00:10:18.910 --> 00:10:23.580 within an organization. So is the buyer a department? Yes, that's a really good 140 00:10:23.580 --> 00:10:28.950 question and distinction to make. So if your organization sells more than one 141 00:10:28.950 --> 00:10:33.410 thing, that means that the account is not the thing that you actually should 142 00:10:33.410 --> 00:10:38.400 be counting, right? So if you sell three different solutions and account 143 00:10:38.400 --> 00:10:41.910 represents three different opportunities for you to sell something, 144 00:10:41.920 --> 00:10:45.900 three different revenue opportunities. So if you're really trying to count 145 00:10:45.900 --> 00:10:49.420 what's going on in your data and how you're doing in terms of converting 146 00:10:49.420 --> 00:10:53.730 prospects, what you really need to be looking at is how many potential 147 00:10:53.730 --> 00:10:57.920 opportunities are there and how many of those are converting now for most 148 00:10:57.920 --> 00:11:03.020 organizations? You might say well if we have a solution for the HR department, 149 00:11:03.020 --> 00:11:07.690 we have a solution for the finance department then you have two different 150 00:11:07.690 --> 00:11:12.230 buying centers is the term that we use to different parts of the organization 151 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:15.670 that that make their own decisions about what to buy for their 152 00:11:15.670 --> 00:11:19.960 organizations, how to solve their problems. And so really need to start 153 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:24.950 counting is all right. How many how many buying centers are out there? Um 154 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:29.080 How many buying centres does each organization represent? And then each 155 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:32.910 buying center is going to have its own buying team, its own team of people who 156 00:11:32.910 --> 00:11:37.180 are going to go out and solve problems for that buying center. And you know it 157 00:11:37.180 --> 00:11:41.810 can be confusing sometimes because if you're buying, if the HR department is 158 00:11:41.810 --> 00:11:45.960 buying a new solution, they're going to have people from it on that buying team. 159 00:11:46.340 --> 00:11:50.000 All right. They're going to have people from outside of that department. Um And 160 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:55.060 so that guy's the head of I. T. Here is going to look at solutions that the HRT 161 00:11:55.060 --> 00:11:59.830 advice that person might actually be a prospect and on another buying team 162 00:11:59.830 --> 00:12:04.790 that you're interested in as well. All right. So it gets complicated but 163 00:12:04.800 --> 00:12:09.460 that's the way it actually works. And B2B and so the more that you can 164 00:12:09.940 --> 00:12:15.680 address that complexity, the more accurate your go to market plans can be 165 00:12:15.680 --> 00:12:18.850 your measurement of what's going on and all that can be. 166 00:12:19.940 --> 00:12:25.000 That's so Funny that that and not surprising when you, when you explain 167 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:29.790 it like that, that of course the buying process in B to B2B space is as 168 00:12:29.790 --> 00:12:36.150 complicated and nuanced as like human buying decision anywhere else. But so 169 00:12:36.640 --> 00:12:43.020 Clarification again, is it that the in the B2B space, the buyer is no longer 170 00:12:43.030 --> 00:12:47.460 an individual person or is it that they never were just an individual person? 171 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:52.680 Great. I love that question because people are very, People are very fond 172 00:12:52.690 --> 00:12:55.740 of saying now, Oh, the virus changed and B2B 173 00:12:56.840 --> 00:12:59.920 I don't know that we know that, you know, we didn't nobody kept track of 174 00:12:59.920 --> 00:13:05.210 how many people were involved even up until very recently. But it's really 175 00:13:05.210 --> 00:13:10.500 unlikely that in the 1970s, if you're going to buy an IBM mainframe, that 176 00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:14.020 there was one person making that decision, I'm pretty sure there were 177 00:13:14.020 --> 00:13:18.130 dozens of people involved in that decision for your company and the same 178 00:13:18.130 --> 00:13:21.810 thing all the way up through all the way through the history of the baby. So 179 00:13:21.810 --> 00:13:25.070 I don't think in terms of whether it's a team, a group of people working 180 00:13:25.070 --> 00:13:29.010 together. I don't think that's ever changed. What has changed and changed 181 00:13:29.010 --> 00:13:33.480 for the really great for me to be solution providers is that now we can 182 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:38.660 see it. So now you have because so much of the buying process happens digitally 183 00:13:39.040 --> 00:13:42.320 and when it happens digitally it leaves a record. So now we have this kind of 184 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:47.510 vapor trail of all of the activity b to be buying teams, whether it's anonymous 185 00:13:47.510 --> 00:13:51.340 activity or they filled out forms or something like that. Um and you can see 186 00:13:51.340 --> 00:13:53.990 it also now you can understand what that actually looks like. What does it 187 00:13:53.990 --> 00:13:57.360 look like when one of our customers is going out in the market to look around 188 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:00.760 for stuff and what does it look like in the middle? What does it look like at 189 00:14:00.760 --> 00:14:04.610 the end? How much content are they consuming? Where are they going? That 190 00:14:04.610 --> 00:14:10.470 stuff was all invisible just a couple of years ago, you preempted my next 191 00:14:10.470 --> 00:14:13.510 question and I think they're, I think you'll probably reiterate some of what 192 00:14:13.510 --> 00:14:17.250 you just said. But I'm curious if there's more mentioning that now you 193 00:14:17.250 --> 00:14:22.760 can just see that there are more people involved in the buying process because 194 00:14:22.760 --> 00:14:27.730 of the information and the technology but but was their research that you saw 195 00:14:27.730 --> 00:14:31.620 or were part of that proved that the buyers no longer just one person. Was 196 00:14:31.620 --> 00:14:36.080 there ever like a watershed moment for you in your career? Sure, Absolutely. 197 00:14:36.090 --> 00:14:40.560 So back in my days at serious decisions in Forrester which were only two months 198 00:14:40.560 --> 00:14:45.560 ago, we did a lot of research around the nature of the fire and what the 199 00:14:45.560 --> 00:14:50.530 buying process was like. And so we've had research for years that have said 200 00:14:50.540 --> 00:14:55.980 that the majority of B2B purchases are made by teams or groups of people, not 201 00:14:55.980 --> 00:15:01.100 individuals. And the most recent versions of those research of that 202 00:15:01.100 --> 00:15:08.680 research would suggest that that numbers, It's more than three people 85 203 00:15:08.680 --> 00:15:13.620 90% of the time. If you ask the buyer, If you ask the seller, they'll say that 204 00:15:13.620 --> 00:15:18.660 there are probably more than five or 10 people involved 90-plus% of the time. 205 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:22.050 Um and they, you know, you get different answers from the too, so 206 00:15:22.050 --> 00:15:25.760 buyers will say who is on my team and they say a slightly smaller number when 207 00:15:25.760 --> 00:15:29.690 you ask the seller, who did I have to involve and who was involved in that 208 00:15:29.690 --> 00:15:32.170 purchase, they say a little bigger number because they're thinking 209 00:15:32.180 --> 00:15:36.870 everybody probably, But whatever number you look at, it's a pretty big number 210 00:15:36.880 --> 00:15:41.810 for purchases for an organization that are more than about 250,000 annually, 211 00:15:41.810 --> 00:15:45.150 that number's certainly in double figures and it may be closer to 20 212 00:15:45.540 --> 00:15:52.610 people involved. So you have your a B. M. Strategy in motion now assuming, you 213 00:15:52.610 --> 00:15:57.540 know, you know, as just the like the hypothetical marketer here and this 214 00:15:57.540 --> 00:16:02.570 just discussion, you know that your your lead scoring, you've, you've kind 215 00:16:02.570 --> 00:16:06.950 of worked it so that you have what you need in place for a really strong A B. 216 00:16:06.950 --> 00:16:11.380 M. Motion. Um One thing you said to me the last time we talked was that a lot 217 00:16:11.380 --> 00:16:14.850 of people have a B emotions that are set in place and they work really, 218 00:16:14.850 --> 00:16:18.360 really well. They start they attract and go after target accounts. They 219 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:23.310 bring multiple stakeholders to the website to start consuming content. Um 220 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:27.560 But that the reason their A. B. M. Motion might break down later is 221 00:16:27.560 --> 00:16:33.140 because it worked initially. Can you unpack with that what you meant by that? 222 00:16:33.150 --> 00:16:36.110 So there are a couple of different things in there. So part of the reason 223 00:16:36.110 --> 00:16:40.590 that a B. M. Program would work and really what it's designed to do is 224 00:16:40.590 --> 00:16:46.660 attract and engage multiple members of that buying team. But also to if you've 225 00:16:46.660 --> 00:16:50.280 got the reason that somebody a company would be in the Arabian program is 226 00:16:50.280 --> 00:16:53.240 likely that you can sell them more than one thing and you want to cultivate 227 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:56.830 that whole account and have multiple cross sell up sell opportunities and 228 00:16:56.830 --> 00:17:01.960 that kind of thing. So a lot of organizations went out and did a good 229 00:17:01.960 --> 00:17:08.130 job of selecting the accounts with sales and marketing together and then 230 00:17:08.130 --> 00:17:12.230 going to attract and engage multiple buyer personas. But then they built 231 00:17:12.230 --> 00:17:16.160 those programs right on top of that marketing automation and sales force 232 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:20.750 automation process that was there before. And so even while they're 233 00:17:20.750 --> 00:17:23.859 attracting and engaging multiple buyer personas, they don't really have the 234 00:17:23.859 --> 00:17:29.700 ability to see and report and act on that. So that was still stuck there. So 235 00:17:29.710 --> 00:17:34.930 when you when you launch that program you still may get a lip like you're 236 00:17:34.930 --> 00:17:39.210 focusing more marketing and sales attention on a smaller more highly 237 00:17:39.210 --> 00:17:42.120 vetted set of accounts and that's going to produce a better result than 238 00:17:42.120 --> 00:17:46.370 whatever you were doing before. So that's great. But the problem is you're 239 00:17:46.370 --> 00:17:51.200 not going to optimize what you could be doing unless you can see all of the 240 00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:54.730 results that are coming from those accounts. So if you're if you're not 241 00:17:54.730 --> 00:17:58.830 taking advantage of all of the buying signals, if you're not using all of the 242 00:17:58.840 --> 00:18:02.880 traffic on your website and the third party intent plus the leads to focus 243 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:05.710 your attention and make sure you're working those highest propensity 244 00:18:05.710 --> 00:18:09.770 opportunities. You're still not going to be really focused on that. 245 00:18:10.830 --> 00:18:17.140 We saw some research recently back and forth or which showed that for the 246 00:18:17.140 --> 00:18:21.750 first year two of an A. B. M. Program, marketing sales both agree that it's 247 00:18:21.750 --> 00:18:25.770 working and you see them their satisfaction with the program going up. 248 00:18:26.340 --> 00:18:30.540 But after a couple of years, what you see is sales belief that it's working 249 00:18:30.540 --> 00:18:35.440 start to go down while marketing's continues to go up. And so you see this 250 00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:40.850 divergence in sales and marketing after a little while and well, I don't know, 251 00:18:40.850 --> 00:18:44.000 we haven't been able to do the research to understand precisely why that's 252 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:49.220 happening. You can imagine that after a little bit of time sales is still out 253 00:18:49.220 --> 00:18:52.180 there trying to figure out how to penetrate accounts and all that 254 00:18:52.180 --> 00:18:56.150 marketing is now producing more and more leads from the account, but 255 00:18:56.150 --> 00:19:00.330 without having the right machinery in place, the right infrastructure in 256 00:19:00.330 --> 00:19:04.480 place to to see all of the signals and to put them together in the right way 257 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:08.810 and package those insights for sales. Still not helping nearly as much as it 258 00:19:08.810 --> 00:19:14.680 could be. Hey everybody Logan with Sweet fish here. If you're a regular 259 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:18.600 listener of GDP growth, you know that I'm one of the co hosts of the show, 260 00:19:18.610 --> 00:19:22.550 but you may not know that I also head up the sales team here is sweet fish. 261 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:26.960 So for those of you in sales or sales ops, I wanted to take a second to share 262 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:31.090 something that's made us insanely more efficient lately. Our team has been 263 00:19:31.090 --> 00:19:34.920 using lead I. Q. For the past few months. And what used to take us four 264 00:19:34.930 --> 00:19:40.770 hours gathering contact data now takes us only one where 75% more efficient 265 00:19:40.780 --> 00:19:44.620 were able to move faster with outbound prospecting and organizing our 266 00:19:44.620 --> 00:19:49.430 campaigns is so much easier than before. I'd highly suggest you guys check out 267 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:55.640 lead I. Q. As well. You can check them out at lead I Q dot com. That's L E A D 268 00:19:55.650 --> 00:20:04.460 I Q dot com. All right, let's get back to the show. Okay, so my question then, 269 00:20:04.460 --> 00:20:09.180 of course is how do you then propose that the marketing and sales work 270 00:20:09.180 --> 00:20:13.210 together so that instead of that satisfaction going down, it continues 271 00:20:13.210 --> 00:20:19.850 to rise and they're they're able to use their technology and uh strategy to 272 00:20:20.340 --> 00:20:25.440 have a consistent A B. M. Motion. First of all you've got to have a really 273 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:28.910 solid system in place for identifying that set of accounts that you really 274 00:20:28.910 --> 00:20:34.140 should be focused on. You know I. C. P. Or ideal customer profile has to be 275 00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:38.710 agreed on. That doesn't mean that you have to have a predictive analytics and 276 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:42.390 Ai to figure out what that is. If you know that you sell to 50 companies 277 00:20:42.390 --> 00:20:47.510 across the world you don't need a I to tell you that. But what you do need is 278 00:20:47.520 --> 00:20:53.310 a really comprehensive way of seeing all of the signals from those buyers 279 00:20:53.310 --> 00:20:56.960 that help you understand where to prioritize your time. And that means 280 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:02.490 one you need to be monitoring the internet generally for digital signals 281 00:21:02.490 --> 00:21:07.180 about where those prospects you care about our in market. So that means 282 00:21:07.190 --> 00:21:11.610 third party intent in the way most people use that term. You've got to see 283 00:21:11.610 --> 00:21:16.060 that buyer behavior that's outside of your digital walls. If you're a small 284 00:21:16.060 --> 00:21:21.340 brand you need that so that you don't miss deals. If you're if you're a small 285 00:21:21.340 --> 00:21:25.330 brand in your space, it's very likely that there are sales that are going on 286 00:21:25.330 --> 00:21:28.560 that you never even find out about until it's over, right? And you've lost. 287 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:32.540 And then if you're a big brand and you know that everybody is coming to your 288 00:21:32.550 --> 00:21:36.500 website who might be interested. Now you have to distinguish the ones who 289 00:21:36.500 --> 00:21:39.620 were there just out of curiosity from the ones who are really in a buying 290 00:21:39.620 --> 00:21:42.860 process, and the way to do that is to go look and see if they're looking at 291 00:21:42.860 --> 00:21:46.770 somebody else. Right? So, if you're a big brand in the space, you want to see 292 00:21:46.770 --> 00:21:50.630 that this is a buyer that's looking at your competitors and they're engaging 293 00:21:50.630 --> 00:21:54.730 with third party content on this topic that can help you validate, yep, that 294 00:21:54.730 --> 00:21:58.940 activity I see on my website now is a real buying process. So two different 295 00:21:58.940 --> 00:22:03.700 use cases, kind of depending upon what your, what your market situation is. 296 00:22:03.710 --> 00:22:07.050 And then the biggest thing is you have to be able to bring all of those 297 00:22:07.050 --> 00:22:12.060 signals together in one place. So, if there's third party intent out there, 298 00:22:12.540 --> 00:22:16.290 There's anonymous website traffic, I haven't really talked about that yet, 299 00:22:16.300 --> 00:22:22.710 but 95% of the traffic on your BDB website is anonymous at least. Uh, and 300 00:22:22.710 --> 00:22:25.860 so you've got to understand what's in there and then you've got those people 301 00:22:25.860 --> 00:22:30.160 who have filled out forms for events for looking at content and all of that, 302 00:22:30.740 --> 00:22:35.470 all of those things, all of those signals are flawed signals, if you take 303 00:22:35.470 --> 00:22:39.130 them one at a time, but if you put them all together, you can get a really 304 00:22:39.130 --> 00:22:43.720 robust picture of which prospects are actually in market what they're 305 00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:47.580 interested in and how to best engage with them and then you've got to be 306 00:22:47.580 --> 00:22:50.980 able to use all that to present to the folks internal, you're going to use it, 307 00:22:50.980 --> 00:22:55.900 one to focus your marketing attention in dollars, let's put it where the most 308 00:22:55.900 --> 00:22:59.990 likely outcome is going to be good. And then to enable the Sdrs and the sales 309 00:22:59.990 --> 00:23:03.330 people going forward so that they can see what that prospect is interested in, 310 00:23:03.330 --> 00:23:06.690 can see what they've consumed, understand which of the buyer personas 311 00:23:06.690 --> 00:23:09.410 are involved in those kinds of things. So that's really what it is. Is being 312 00:23:09.410 --> 00:23:13.710 able to bring all of those signals together in one place and make it 313 00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:18.820 consumable and usable for the revenue teams as they, as they try to generate 314 00:23:18.820 --> 00:23:25.650 that revenue. So one thing you said that I am fascinated by so mentioning 315 00:23:25.690 --> 00:23:32.780 the your prospect, first of all anonymous website traffic, you need to 316 00:23:32.790 --> 00:23:37.100 be able to crack in and and get far more insight from that. Um, so I want 317 00:23:37.100 --> 00:23:40.540 to unpack that a little bit more. But before I, before I do that you, you 318 00:23:40.540 --> 00:23:45.080 mentioned that you want to know that your prospect is, is potentially 319 00:23:45.080 --> 00:23:48.960 looking at competitors and that's a really strong buying signal for you. 320 00:23:49.540 --> 00:23:52.990 I'm sure this is a question that most marketing practices know the answer to. 321 00:23:52.990 --> 00:23:57.440 But how do you do that? There are a number of providers of 3rd party 322 00:23:57.450 --> 00:24:03.320 intensive. So intense signals are really just the record of which 323 00:24:03.320 --> 00:24:08.730 companies are visiting, which websites, which publications, which social media 324 00:24:08.730 --> 00:24:13.580 influencers and all of those. So organizations can tell from pixels on 325 00:24:13.580 --> 00:24:17.450 their website and other things which companies are coming to visit them. 326 00:24:17.840 --> 00:24:22.020 There's a lot of technology involved in trying to figure out where that 327 00:24:22.030 --> 00:24:26.500 anonymous traffic is coming from. And that's something that some 328 00:24:26.500 --> 00:24:30.720 organizations do particularly well. We think our organization does that really, 329 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:35.430 really well and others don't. But you know, when you think about the fact 330 00:24:35.430 --> 00:24:41.160 that 95 or so percent of the traffic on your own website, if you're a B two B 331 00:24:41.940 --> 00:24:46.660 solution provider, almost all of the traffic on your website is anonymous. 332 00:24:47.140 --> 00:24:51.800 And if you're like most babies solution providers, you're not a household name 333 00:24:51.800 --> 00:24:56.150 for the general public. Uh, nobody knows that you exist except 334 00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:59.250 organizations and people in those organizations who have some 335 00:24:59.250 --> 00:25:02.740 professional interest in what you do. Now, that doesn't mean that every one 336 00:25:02.740 --> 00:25:07.050 of those people come to your website is a potential buyer, but it doesn't mean 337 00:25:07.060 --> 00:25:12.080 probably a substantial portion of them are and it doesn't take many of those 338 00:25:12.080 --> 00:25:17.200 anonymous visitors to outweigh the ones that you know about. Since you only 339 00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:21.350 know a couple of percent of those virus. So we think it's just extremely 340 00:25:21.350 --> 00:25:25.540 important to do everything possible, understand what's in that anonymous 341 00:25:25.540 --> 00:25:29.700 traffic. If I'm talking to a VP of demand or CMO or somebody in that 342 00:25:29.700 --> 00:25:36.320 position, what I would say is you have already paid for that anonymous traffic. 343 00:25:36.330 --> 00:25:39.890 You know, your, it's very difficult to get people to come to your website and 344 00:25:39.890 --> 00:25:44.100 to look at your content. You spend a ton of money on it. You've already 345 00:25:44.100 --> 00:25:48.120 gotten these folks who are their anonymous there? They're already 346 00:25:48.120 --> 00:25:53.350 showing interest. You can't, and it's not legal to track them by individual 347 00:25:53.350 --> 00:25:56.000 as an individual person and try to figure out who they are, but you can 348 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:59.250 certainly know what companies are coming from. And when you think about 349 00:25:59.250 --> 00:26:04.100 it, if I've got just one lead from an account that's not particularly 350 00:26:04.100 --> 00:26:08.300 interesting, that's what I'm saying. But if you, if you know, in addition to 351 00:26:08.300 --> 00:26:11.900 that one lead that there's a bunch of anonymous traffic this month from that 352 00:26:11.900 --> 00:26:15.770 same account and we don't usually get traffic from that account, but now that 353 00:26:15.770 --> 00:26:19.810 account is on our website and honestly, and we have a lead now, that's very 354 00:26:19.810 --> 00:26:22.710 interesting. And that's what's important about seeing these signals 355 00:26:22.710 --> 00:26:28.030 together. None of the signals by themselves are particularly good leads. 356 00:26:28.040 --> 00:26:33.170 Not particularly good anonymous traffic by itself. Not particularly interesting. 357 00:26:33.540 --> 00:26:37.810 Even 3rd party intent by itself. Not particularly interesting, but when you 358 00:26:37.810 --> 00:26:42.910 put them together, you can make something very powerful to identify 359 00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:44.760 where you should be spending your time. 360 00:26:45.940 --> 00:26:50.100 That really brought together a lot of things that I've heard, as I've talked 361 00:26:50.100 --> 00:26:54.240 to many marketing practices while sitting in this seat that I'm in. And 362 00:26:54.240 --> 00:27:00.290 this is really like just solidifying, you know, pillar that runs through so 363 00:27:00.290 --> 00:27:03.610 much marketing. That's really started to make sense. Really thrilled about 364 00:27:03.610 --> 00:27:12.230 that. My, my curiosity is clearly a BM is incredibly important going to be 365 00:27:12.230 --> 00:27:18.320 this thick vein through anyone's marketing strategy. Are there scenarios 366 00:27:18.320 --> 00:27:24.710 where an account based marketing approach isn't valuable? Yes. So if you 367 00:27:24.710 --> 00:27:32.390 sell to Companies of 1, 2, 3, 4 people, something like that, Okay. If you've 368 00:27:32.390 --> 00:27:37.440 got a lead from one of those organizations that plenty, you're going 369 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.030 to look for three or four or five leads in a bunch of anonymous traffic, that's 370 00:27:41.030 --> 00:27:46.190 fine. So if you're selling to very small organizations than maybe I'm 371 00:27:46.190 --> 00:27:50.750 gonna lead based approach, we'll get you the same thing essentially. That's 372 00:27:50.750 --> 00:27:55.700 really it for circumstances in which the account-based approach isn't the 373 00:27:55.700 --> 00:28:01.480 right one wherever your buyer represents is multiple people. That's 374 00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:04.950 really you should be taking what we think of as this account based approach. 375 00:28:05.540 --> 00:28:11.700 So what results can people expect? And I guess my my general question is what 376 00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:17.690 results have you seen with this? Like start to finish a B. M. Approach? If we 377 00:28:17.690 --> 00:28:21.790 can get to reduce it down to just that terminology for a second, what results 378 00:28:21.790 --> 00:28:26.450 will be seen? Well, you know, the actual number is very of course a lot. 379 00:28:26.460 --> 00:28:30.110 But virtually every organization that implements an approach that takes 380 00:28:30.110 --> 00:28:34.240 account of the fact that their buyers, a team of people who allow, who enables 381 00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:38.030 themselves to see more of those signals see substantial improvements and you 382 00:28:38.030 --> 00:28:42.510 don't actually have to do everything to get improvements. And I think that's 383 00:28:42.510 --> 00:28:46.760 one of the things that's maybe the one of the most important messages that the 384 00:28:46.760 --> 00:28:52.170 audience could here is that there are small changes that you can make to, how 385 00:28:52.170 --> 00:28:56.560 your revenue teams operate today, that will produce a big change in the 386 00:28:56.560 --> 00:29:01.580 outcome that they produce. And you don't have to do everything now. But 387 00:29:01.580 --> 00:29:05.570 some of the things that are really important to do, like seeing multiple 388 00:29:05.570 --> 00:29:10.200 signals together and seeing that buying team signal are a big change to a 389 00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:14.820 company's process. So for instance, what we'd really like to see is if SDR 390 00:29:14.820 --> 00:29:19.310 teams are trying to penetrate target accounts, they absolutely should be 391 00:29:19.310 --> 00:29:22.700 going after multiple individuals. If your outbound prospecting into an 392 00:29:22.700 --> 00:29:27.190 account, they will always be trying to target multiple individuals. But often 393 00:29:27.190 --> 00:29:31.240 today, when we get a lead from one of those accounts, the SDR will just call 394 00:29:31.240 --> 00:29:34.890 that one person, send them some emails and if they don't respond, they say 395 00:29:34.890 --> 00:29:39.290 they're done with it, it doesn't make any sense. Right? So, uh, here, here 396 00:29:39.290 --> 00:29:42.190 you have a target account where you actually have a signal of interest 397 00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:46.910 already. So why would you not do your best to penetrate that account? Now 398 00:29:46.910 --> 00:29:50.820 that you've already got that signal? So just getting organizations to think 399 00:29:50.830 --> 00:29:54.890 differently even about that, if I get an inbound lead from an organization 400 00:29:54.890 --> 00:29:59.090 that's a target organization, I got to take an outbound prospecting approach 401 00:29:59.090 --> 00:30:04.370 to finding out what's going on there. And so even that approach will produce 402 00:30:04.380 --> 00:30:07.520 substantially better results than the ones that they're getting with the 403 00:30:07.520 --> 00:30:13.250 current process today. So, you know, we see results in terms of pipeline 404 00:30:13.250 --> 00:30:17.160 generation that, you know, we're not talking about small incremental 405 00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:21.890 improvements. It's not a 234% improvement in many situations will see 406 00:30:21.890 --> 00:30:28.200 25 30 40% improvement. We've seen that in clients going back to the Forester 407 00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:35.570 days just by implementing a small set of the improvements, especially seeing 408 00:30:35.570 --> 00:30:38.050 additional signals and then operating on them together. 409 00:30:39.140 --> 00:30:42.740 I love that if you, there's, you don't have to do everything, but there are a 410 00:30:42.740 --> 00:30:47.870 couple of things that you should do and and that's that's probably most 411 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:52.830 practically how it's going to start anyway. Right. These small process 412 00:30:52.840 --> 00:30:58.310 improvements, these small adaptations instead of turning over the whole apple 413 00:30:58.310 --> 00:31:04.910 cart. I'm curious too about just having seen so much in the way of A B. M. If 414 00:31:04.910 --> 00:31:10.760 there's ways that you've seen people attempt or plan for a B. M. That's 415 00:31:10.770 --> 00:31:16.350 maybe incorrect. Or like a red flag, maybe I can guess a couple of them 416 00:31:16.350 --> 00:31:22.540 already. Right? Not not noticing all of the buyers signs or styling the intent 417 00:31:22.540 --> 00:31:26.700 signals, but but some may be thinking some a little bit more about this 418 00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:34.100 processes and the domino effect of Arabia. Sure. So first of all, if 419 00:31:34.100 --> 00:31:39.070 you're in marketing and you can't get your sales colleagues to engage with 420 00:31:39.070 --> 00:31:43.650 you and agree on the set of accounts and the segments that you're interested 421 00:31:43.650 --> 00:31:48.500 in then don't bother. So you've got to stop and reset and figure out how to 422 00:31:48.500 --> 00:31:52.050 make that happen? Because that's the essence of it is making sure that 423 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:57.870 wherever you're generating demand, it's inside a set of accounts that sales can 424 00:31:57.870 --> 00:32:01.320 and will go sell two, there's really nothing more important than that. And 425 00:32:01.320 --> 00:32:05.290 if you can't do that, you can't move further along. It's not really going to 426 00:32:05.290 --> 00:32:10.280 help very much. The next I would say is ensuring that you do see multiple 427 00:32:10.280 --> 00:32:14.610 signals and that what you're doing is you're focusing the human beings in 428 00:32:14.610 --> 00:32:20.760 your organization str salespeople on that set of opportunities that is 429 00:32:20.760 --> 00:32:26.820 really going to be their best potential set of opportunities to win. Not the 430 00:32:26.820 --> 00:32:30.680 ones that just show up or they look best there. They have the best title of 431 00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:34.240 a lead that came in, but really where's the opportunity that we have the best 432 00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:37.970 chance of winning and making a good customer? And then the next is use 433 00:32:37.970 --> 00:32:42.520 everything that you learn in the top end of the final to enable the SDRs and 434 00:32:42.520 --> 00:32:48.080 the sales reps lower down. So they need to know for sales are up for SDR, their 435 00:32:48.080 --> 00:32:53.030 investment in an account that they're going to go, try to penetrate. You know, 436 00:32:53.030 --> 00:32:58.760 it's, it's substantial. Takes a lot of time. Takes a lot of energy. Uh, and so 437 00:32:58.770 --> 00:33:02.720 they need to understand when marketing passes off an opportunity, Why is this 438 00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:06.910 a good one? You know, why? Why is this 11 I should go pay attention to and not 439 00:33:06.910 --> 00:33:11.740 another one. Why should I spend so much time and energy and this potential 440 00:33:11.740 --> 00:33:16.790 opportunity as opposed to whatever else I was going to do and marketing often 441 00:33:16.790 --> 00:33:21.650 thanks. Well we got our scoring down or something like that. So sales should 442 00:33:21.650 --> 00:33:22.050 love it. 443 00:33:23.140 --> 00:33:27.280 Now. You've really got to go find out from sales what's important to them to 444 00:33:27.280 --> 00:33:31.970 understand about an account and that's what you ideally will give them Now. If 445 00:33:31.970 --> 00:33:34.580 that doesn't make sense of what they say, it doesn't make sense. Then again, 446 00:33:34.580 --> 00:33:37.370 you have to go back to the drawing board figure out why aren't you on the 447 00:33:37.370 --> 00:33:44.080 same page about what a really good prospect looks like. I'm curious about 448 00:33:44.080 --> 00:33:46.940 many things as I said, but I'm 449 00:33:48.040 --> 00:33:55.150 with this philosophy and this oversight of an Evan a BM strategy. Do you think 450 00:33:55.150 --> 00:34:03.670 that there's maybe a lack of knowledge or true definition around a B. M. That 451 00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:08.520 that maybe causes less of this fully fleshed strategy to be in place or is 452 00:34:08.520 --> 00:34:13.010 it is it that there is like opposition from a different camp? Why do you think 453 00:34:13.010 --> 00:34:18.730 this maybe isn't a commonly held practice? Well, I think there are a few 454 00:34:18.739 --> 00:34:22.260 one is just history. So you know, we came through this period of time where 455 00:34:22.270 --> 00:34:26.409 everything was lead based and people's understanding our understanding of 456 00:34:26.420 --> 00:34:31.080 what's good and what works is evolving and so it's not a static thing and you 457 00:34:31.080 --> 00:34:34.520 can't just flip a switch and say, okay, well we were doing that yesterday, but 458 00:34:34.520 --> 00:34:37.960 this is the right way today. This doesn't work that way. Doesn't have a 459 00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:43.310 whole generation really of marketers who were kind of brought into business 460 00:34:43.310 --> 00:34:48.260 and learn how to do things in this lead centric world. And it's not an easy 461 00:34:48.260 --> 00:34:52.219 thing to say. But now we're going to think about the world differently, 462 00:34:52.230 --> 00:34:56.350 right? You know, some people will get that, but other people have to come 463 00:34:56.350 --> 00:34:59.900 along a little more slowly. Plus if you're a big organization and your 464 00:34:59.900 --> 00:35:04.890 whole operation is set up one way, just say, okay, but well now we're going to 465 00:35:04.890 --> 00:35:08.670 do it differently. I mean, you know, people's livelihoods, their paychecks 466 00:35:08.670 --> 00:35:12.560 are at stake, there's a lot involved. So that can be a big transformation. 467 00:35:12.560 --> 00:35:15.790 It's part of the reason we say, you know, let's start with a piece of it. 468 00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:19.260 Let's make sure that we enable your Sdrs to be super effective. Give them 469 00:35:19.260 --> 00:35:22.340 all the signals and the insights that they need to be effective. We can go 470 00:35:22.340 --> 00:35:25.940 from there right now, if you're a smaller organization rip and replace, 471 00:35:25.950 --> 00:35:29.120 change everything all at once, that's fine. The bigger ones, you have to 472 00:35:29.130 --> 00:35:32.610 start a little more slowly. So I think that's really where we are, is that 473 00:35:32.610 --> 00:35:37.920 we're in a period of time when we're evolving that what is the best practice 474 00:35:37.930 --> 00:35:43.260 is changing as technology allows us to do more things and we can't really 475 00:35:43.940 --> 00:35:48.650 underplay that because the technology say five years ago, didn't allow you to 476 00:35:48.650 --> 00:35:52.170 do the thing. A lot of the things that I've been talking about today, it does 477 00:35:52.170 --> 00:35:57.200 today. Big part of the reason I came to six senses because they've got the tech 478 00:35:57.200 --> 00:36:01.270 that lets you do it. And so that's a big part of it as well. I really 479 00:36:01.270 --> 00:36:07.130 appreciate how measured your approaches to A B. M. And I appreciate that 480 00:36:07.130 --> 00:36:11.510 marketing allows for these incremental changes and that there's there's so 481 00:36:11.510 --> 00:36:17.200 many ways to approach marketing and A B. M. As it becomes increasingly popular 482 00:36:17.200 --> 00:36:21.530 at there's research and data to back up that it really is one of the most 483 00:36:21.530 --> 00:36:26.270 effective approaches. I'm I'm I really appreciate that your temperament on 484 00:36:26.270 --> 00:36:31.830 this is start small and grow and expand and see those results that are that are 485 00:36:31.830 --> 00:36:37.160 so compelling for and that come from a really strong maybe in motion. Yeah, I 486 00:36:37.160 --> 00:36:41.200 want to clarify one thing that you can take an incremental approach to what 487 00:36:41.200 --> 00:36:45.660 you change, but when you change the right incremental things, you can see 488 00:36:45.660 --> 00:36:51.470 next level performance and what we're talking about is not Is not incremental 489 00:36:51.470 --> 00:36:55.540 improvement because that's that's really, you know, what organizations 490 00:36:55.540 --> 00:36:58.600 have had over the last 10 years or so. It's just an incremental improvement 491 00:36:58.600 --> 00:37:02.200 where 1% better this year than last year, 2% better this year than last 492 00:37:02.200 --> 00:37:07.320 year, that's fine. But one or 2% better than what you were five years ago if 493 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:11.720 you're doing lead management, B two B is not good. It's just really not good 494 00:37:11.720 --> 00:37:15.080 at all. And so the changes that we've been talking about, seeing these buying 495 00:37:15.080 --> 00:37:18.570 signals, seeing the buying team moving those things forward, you can make 496 00:37:18.570 --> 00:37:23.310 incremental changes saying how your sdrs see and work with those, but that 497 00:37:23.310 --> 00:37:27.950 will produce beyond incremental improvements in your performance. That 498 00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:34.070 is an excellent clarification. I'm so glad you said that. I'm super excited 499 00:37:34.070 --> 00:37:37.400 for anybody who then try, goes and implement some of what you're 500 00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:42.220 suggesting. If there was one thing that you wanted marketing practitioners to 501 00:37:42.220 --> 00:37:45.560 take away from this episode and just really kind of drive home, what would 502 00:37:45.560 --> 00:37:52.640 it be? Mm that was really hard. I guess. What I would say is that there are lots 503 00:37:52.650 --> 00:37:58.970 and lots of different signals available to help you understand which potential 504 00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:04.510 buyers and opportunities you should be focused on and you cannot rely on just 505 00:38:04.510 --> 00:38:08.910 leads anymore. And but moreover, you can't rely on just any one of those 506 00:38:08.910 --> 00:38:13.240 signals. You have to be able to see them together and act on them together 507 00:38:13.250 --> 00:38:16.680 because any one of them is going to lead you astray? Well, there you have 508 00:38:16.680 --> 00:38:21.320 it carry. Thank you so much for joining me on B two B growth. How can listeners 509 00:38:21.320 --> 00:38:25.890 connect with you and learn more? About six cents? Sure. Well, we're at the six 510 00:38:25.890 --> 00:38:30.030 ounce dot com. Pretty easy to find their um, you can find me personally on 511 00:38:30.030 --> 00:38:34.620 linkedin, uh, and I'm relatively active on linkedin, so very happy to have 512 00:38:34.620 --> 00:38:39.800 anybody uh connect there and comment on what I've said. Tell me they think I'm 513 00:38:39.810 --> 00:38:44.740 full of it or have some idea to kick around. We're always happy for that. Oh, 514 00:38:44.750 --> 00:38:48.330 man, that's great. Thank you so much again for joining me on B two B growth. 515 00:38:48.340 --> 00:38:50.340 Yeah, Thank you Olivia and great, thank you. 516 00:38:52.220 --> 00:38:52.540 All right, 517 00:38:54.620 --> 00:38:58.820 and sweet fish. We're on a mission to create the most helpful content on the 518 00:38:58.820 --> 00:39:03.400 internet for every job function and industry on the planet for the B two B 519 00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:07.440 marketing industry. This show is how we're executing on that mission. If you 520 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.930 know a marketing leader, that would be an awesome guest for this podcast. 521 00:39:10.940 --> 00:39:14.480 Shoot me a text message. Don't call me because I don't answer unknown numbers, 522 00:39:14.490 --> 00:39:20.970 but text me at 4074 and I know 33 to 8. Just shoot me their name may be a link 523 00:39:20.970 --> 00:39:24.910 to their linkedin profile and I'd love to check them out to see if we can get 524 00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:26.650 them on the show. Thanks a lot