Marketing Informed Recruitment and Retention with Susan Vitale

WEBVTT 1 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:16.480 Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is B tob growth. This 2 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:21.000 is b tob growth from Sam Marcus or Austin, Texas. This is Benji 3 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:25.960 and excited to be trying something this week. If you guys, listened to 4 00:00:26.199 --> 00:00:30.000 Monday's episode, you know that we are having a little bit of our round 5 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:36.240 table discussion. So welcome Dan and Emily. Dan Joining us from Nashville, 6 00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:40.399 Tennessee, Emily joining us from Louisville, Kentucky. What's going on, guys? 7 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:42.880 Hey, Benjie, it's going on. We're podcasting, Bro. What 8 00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:47.200 do you think we're doing? You can answer that a million ways and you 9 00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:50.679 don't have to just say we're podcasting Bro. All Right, Dan is our 10 00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:56.039 director of audience growth, emily is our creative content lead and we're doing a 11 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.799 bit of a show and tell deal here. So today I thought we're going 12 00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:03.399 to throw it over to Dan. What's Dan thinking about? What's he seen 13 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:07.359 lately? Maybe it's in the news or a post or a book. So 14 00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:10.680 Dan, tell us a little bit about what you've been paying attention to. 15 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:15.799 Headline that just hit my inbox this morning and I say I set it aside 16 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:19.159 to talk about Mike and Mike Club and more in depth later, but I'm 17 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:21.400 like, Dang, let's talk about it here, and that is that I 18 00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:26.000 heart radio, I heart media, is investing heavily in NFT's and I think 19 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:33.120 the creation of NFT's and purchasing essentially lights to very popular NFT projects to be 20 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:36.680 able to use across podcast and as a podcaster and someone who's kind of been 21 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:41.959 watching this whole nft crypto crazy thing been hyped up in the new so much 22 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:45.519 it really caught my attention and now I'm like, okay, big players have 23 00:01:45.560 --> 00:01:49.640 been talking about getting in the NFT game right and we'll talk about what NFT's 24 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:52.760 are in a second if you're unfamiliar with what they are. But I think 25 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:56.159 a lot of us marketers, especially on the digital side, are watching this 26 00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:00.640 because we see our favorite marketers like Gary v launched their own nft projects and 27 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:05.760 build these cool things, but it's so kind of complicated and sophisticated, even 28 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:07.599 N ift's. What is that that a lot of us are kind of waiting 29 00:02:07.639 --> 00:02:10.199 for it to become a thing, like Oh, we're all interested in it, 30 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:13.919 a lot of people are listening about it, but we're like, but 31 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:16.120 how what are we supposed to do with it, like how do we do 32 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:19.479 that? So I thought it was worth bringing it to a round table. 33 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:22.599 Today's I do have some ideas of what it could be. What I'm waiting 34 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:24.520 for next in the market for it to kind of for me to like really 35 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:28.240 start pushing, pushing heavily into it. But I thought would be worth the 36 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:30.439 conversation. I mean, I think it's an interesting one. Like here's what 37 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:36.560 I would say. For me personally, moderate understanding. Like long term, 38 00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:44.000 I totally see how NFT's are useful and once there's mass adoption there's a million 39 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:46.560 ways to use it. Right now it's so early that I'm like, mm, 40 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:51.360 I think that's a big move, you know. So I'm excited to 41 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:53.280 hear you dive into it a little bit more. Emily, what's your knowledge 42 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:57.680 base or thoughts around NFT's? When someone says that, like, what are 43 00:02:57.719 --> 00:03:00.159 you thinking? I'm starting a zero. I don't know anything about enoughties, 44 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:04.680 but you've heard the name, so I've heard of them, yes, but 45 00:03:04.759 --> 00:03:12.520 I don't know any. Cries glaze over. Yeah, but it's certainly part 46 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:15.960 of the problem. Why? One of the things that's keeping it from being 47 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:17.719 widespread, as you're like nft. What does that stand for? Oh, 48 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:23.039 it stands for non fungible token, which explains a ton. Right. You're 49 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:27.479 like, okay, that it still makes zero sense. Essentially, a nonfungible 50 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:30.400 token is kind of like an asset of a kind that's not fungible, as 51 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:36.000 in it's not currency, it's something else. Right, give an example, 52 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:40.800 and ift is something that's unique. Right, and because of the blockchain technology, 53 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:46.800 this encrypted code, you can verify that the thing is the thing, 54 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:53.599 right, that this one image is the first one or the second one, 55 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:55.039 and nobody can change it, no one can hack it to be like no, 56 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:59.439 we have the original copy of the thing, of the contract, of 57 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:03.400 the piece of art, of this name, or whatever it is, whatever 58 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:09.000 the digital thing is the blockchain technology, kind of like with the Bitcoin, 59 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:12.800 you can say the blockchain verifies that this person is the owner of this one 60 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:17.040 bitcoin. And that's how a cryptocurrency works, is that you can verify the 61 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:21.439 ownership of a single thing, whether it's digital or or physical. Like if 62 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:26.399 a car has a unique number, you can use blockchain to verify the owner 63 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:30.720 of the car rather than making the government like show that they're the title owner. 64 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:35.199 Whatever you said contract and I would say that to me like long term, 65 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:40.920 imagining all the things that you kind of own, emily, are like 66 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:45.600 this is your digital version of saying, see, I own it. So 67 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:51.000 like your house, you literally would have an nft that's like proof of ownership 68 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:55.839 of your home, because we are moving into such a digital society that that's 69 00:04:55.879 --> 00:05:00.839 like an easy way of proof and it's much better than, like, obviously, 70 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:03.720 what we currently have, paper stashed somewhere or, you know, something 71 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:08.920 that can easily be hacked. So that's one of the implications. What's interesting 72 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:11.199 when it gets into the marketing space, and where I want to go for 73 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:13.199 the next few minutes with you, Dan is, like, how do you 74 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:16.199 see that fleshing itself out, because people are trying different things, but if 75 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:19.959 you ask most people what they think of of Nfts, they think of board 76 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:25.600 ape, honestly, they think of these really weird images that are, I 77 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:30.040 guess, art to somebody but not to most people, and they don't see 78 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:33.639 the implications quite yet beyond that. Right now and FT's are in a phase 79 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:38.519 where it's kind of like art, tech and hype. Right they're es centrally 80 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:42.519 digital baseball cards, you know, or trading cards, pokemon cards, but 81 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:45.839 they're all digital. So, like the whole Crypto punk thing, it's essentially 82 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:48.720 a bunch of a little piece jpegs or gifts or whatever, and they're all 83 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:53.560 bunch of there's thousands of unique ones and somewhere more rare than others and because 84 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:56.439 of the rarity of them and people want them, they go up and value 85 00:05:56.480 --> 00:05:59.920 and people buy and trade them and make money off of these and FT's that's 86 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.319 kind of what it is. It's essentially baseball cards, but digital version, 87 00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:09.160 because you can contractually know who owns what. What is really interesting is not 88 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:13.079 the art side of it, though there's usually an art component of it that's 89 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:16.279 kind of fun, but the utility side of it. For example, I 90 00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:20.720 bought, I've bought one NFT to date and it's a domain name. Right 91 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:24.920 there's nft domain names and I was like, oh well, that I want 92 00:06:24.920 --> 00:06:27.040 to I was trying to dabble on the market and be like I want to 93 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:29.000 buy an NFT, but I don't know if I want to buy a jpeg 94 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:31.040 because I don't even I'm not into the baseball card thing. I don't know 95 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:33.560 how to find value and figure out what's going up or going down. I'm 96 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:38.160 going to lose money on it. Let's buy something that has some potential value. 97 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:40.879 I understand domain names. I buy a lot of them and I'm a 98 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:45.639 marketer. I built websites. So I bought DANCHEZ DOC CRYPTO for one time. 99 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.279 Fe cost like a hundred bucks or something in Etherium, which is a 100 00:06:48.279 --> 00:06:53.319 cryptocurrency, and now I own it and you can verify through the blockchain that 101 00:06:53.319 --> 00:06:57.079 I own this nft and it has once dot the dot crypto becomes more of 102 00:06:57.120 --> 00:06:59.839 a thing, I can actually use it for different things. It has a 103 00:06:59.959 --> 00:07:02.519 utility. What I'm interested in in the marking space is when it has more 104 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:09.040 utility. The few things that I'm looking at our memberships, like let's say 105 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:14.319 we build my club to be an NFT based membership and I release ten a 106 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:19.399 certain tiers of the membership and then people can either resell or trade in different 107 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:23.040 tiers for different things. But there's only ten seats at this level, a 108 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:27.279 hundred seats this level and only tenzero seats at this level. So now there's 109 00:07:27.279 --> 00:07:30.600 a value to those and people can buy into to it or trade it or 110 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:33.560 gift it to somebody else. But it's actually a seat at the table. 111 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:36.399 And not only is there a nice, nice little unique piece of art that 112 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:43.560 represents it, but it actually unlocks different things. On locks access two different 113 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:48.279 groups, meetings, content, events, and that starts to become the interesting 114 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:53.079 utility for memberships. All the sudden that thing has value and maybe has resale 115 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:58.519 value. Get that's what Gary v's doing with his his V friends are three 116 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:01.839 year tickets to his vcn and might have implications down the line. It's up 117 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:07.079 to him. He created memberships with massive audience. That one makes sense. 118 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:09.600 Yeah, so it's kind of an interesting idea for community. It's an interesting 119 00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:13.680 idea for audience. I'm interested to see. I haven't seen anybody do it 120 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:16.240 with like a book yet, but I'm like, Dang a book. You 121 00:08:16.279 --> 00:08:20.000 could make an nft book where you get the digital copy of it, and 122 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:24.920 imagine if a author could control the spread of his book or her book by 123 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:30.600 controlling availability. All of a sudden the resell market actually kicks back money to 124 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:33.720 the author because that they resell the digital rights to the book. The author 125 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.039 can get a kick back from every single resell right. If they only release 126 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:41.039 tenzero digital copies of a book, that starts to become interesting because usually once 127 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:45.159 an author only makes a small commission of eve on each sale of it. 128 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:48.240 Businesses could do the same thing. If they have content that they're putting out 129 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:50.159 there. They could limit the amount of content and make it a one off 130 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:56.000 or something, and I think IPAs it's a different way of being gated in 131 00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:00.000 a sense where you're thinking about it slightly differently. There's a little bit more 132 00:09:00.039 --> 00:09:03.320 intentionality behind how big do I want this audience to be? In a lot 133 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:07.519 of people are fighting for originality in a world where it's like I can get 134 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:09.879 anything anytime, and if t's are like well, here's a unique way to 135 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:13.360 where you can say you're the only one. Everybody likes to belong to a 136 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:18.440 group and if you can limit access to a group, then that group becomes 137 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:20.799 more powerful. It's kind of like, I don't know if you've ever gotten 138 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:24.519 something free that was actually valuable but you didn't really value it because you didn't 139 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:26.840 have to pay for anything. You'd have to pay for it. But then 140 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:31.360 there's things that were valuable to you because you paid for it, even though 141 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:33.519 every other people saw it as trash. But you paid good money for it 142 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:37.879 and you value that thing even though other people would literally pay someone to get 143 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:39.399 rid of it pieces. I don't know. I've been. I've been to 144 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:43.000 like swap meats where you're like buying old treasure chests and different things like that. 145 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:46.279 It's trash to somebody else. For you, you paid money for you 146 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:50.039 value it. So we value things that we invest in. So how do 147 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:52.440 you create community when you have buying at a certain level? So that's kind 148 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:56.679 of interesting to me. I think. Also intellectual property is going to change 149 00:09:56.759 --> 00:10:00.679 dramatically. Like imagine if Kelloggs like turn Tony The tiger into an n ft 150 00:10:00.879 --> 00:10:03.279 and different versions of him and all of a sudden you can own different parts 151 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:09.159 of Tony and maybe even sculpt the the story of Tony The tiger and made 152 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:13.000 it more valuable that way. There's have been used by businesses to champion, 153 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:16.960 to create figureheads, and I have ideas all the time. They even buy 154 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:20.240 into them, right. Hence pebbles bought like rights to the Flintstones to be 155 00:10:20.240 --> 00:10:24.279 able to market fruity pebbles. So characters have been used for a long best 156 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:28.159 serial by the way. More that happening with NFTS. I've been just such 157 00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:31.600 an interesting conversation station, I think in my club's context, where we could 158 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:39.639 talk podcasting specific like there's some really interesting crossover I heart, also on the 159 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:43.279 music side, like music is one of the most fascinating ways to think about 160 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:48.559 nft's in the future, of the connection between followers of certain artists and how 161 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.120 they can buy into the music. We're like needing to wrap this conversation up, 162 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:56.360 but we're just getting started, and what I like about it is that 163 00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:00.080 hopefully we made you stick your toes in the shallow and here, like emily, 164 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:03.960 let's let's just gage real quick. Did we get you interested at all 165 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:07.639 in what NFT's potential are? A little bit, I at least I have 166 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:13.559 it basically. Well, I love your skepticism. That's incredible. Am I 167 00:11:13.559 --> 00:11:18.600 going to go res NMP's? Probably not, but it's interesting. Here's another 168 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:22.440 one that might be interesting to you, Emily. What if you can control 169 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:26.799 trademark law a little bit more with nfts? What if you could almost curate 170 00:11:26.919 --> 00:11:31.279 your personal brand or the brain of a company by buying pieces of assets through 171 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:33.440 NFT's? So I own a little piece of star wars, but only to 172 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:39.120 Urtd to, but now I have a piece of RTD to and FT's so 173 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:41.519 I can have, I can incorporate some RTD to steff in my own brand, 174 00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:46.399 I can almost curate different things, fonts, music, and all of 175 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:52.200 a sudden I can mash up a bunch of different pieces of intellectual property without 176 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:54.960 having to like create these crazy contracts. I could just kind of buying cure 177 00:11:56.039 --> 00:11:58.919 rate and all of a sudden my brand is a mix of different brands. 178 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:01.840 If you think, Gary v does this already, like he uses the jets 179 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:05.039 all the time. He doesn't own the jets but like he wears jet stuff. 180 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:07.559 I mean we kind of already do this with our fashion and what we 181 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:11.159 wear, the things we have on our shelves. But what if you could 182 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:15.559 do it a little bit more officially and incorporate these things without like trademark infringement? 183 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.600 I don't know, I think it starts to get interesting when you're borrowing 184 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:24.759 Ip. Fascinating conversation. There's a lot more on that topic that will be 185 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:30.039 paying attention to and I'm sure it's only going to get like more obvious the 186 00:12:30.039 --> 00:12:35.240 the need and the use. Early adopters are all over it and clearly like 187 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:39.720 the tide is coming in. So if you liked this conversation, again, 188 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:45.080 this is like a trial week. This is our second episode where we're including 189 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:48.799 a conversation like this before the interviews that we typically have here on B tob 190 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:54.120 growth. Let us know reach out on Linkedin. Dan, Emily and I 191 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:58.399 are all active over there. We would love a DM or just reach out 192 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:03.120 and we're always having conversations with with people over there. So thanks for tune 193 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:07.080 and in. Now let's jump into an interview that I did recently check this 194 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:13.120 out. Today I am joined by Susan vitally. She's the chief marketing officer 195 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.879 at ISOM's. Susan, thanks for being with us today. Thank you so 196 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.519 much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. It's great to get 197 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:26.440 to chat. You have a very unique work history in that you've been CMO 198 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:31.480 and been with the same company for seventeen years with ISMs. So you've seen 199 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:35.720 the growth, you've seen the evolution right, but it's fairly uncommon, given 200 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:39.840 the being a CMO, that you've stayed. So I'd love some context from 201 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:43.759 you, Susan, right here off the top, just as to what you've 202 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:48.639 experienced with seventeen years with the same company. Oh Gosh, what happened? 203 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:52.200 Experience of seventeen years? Yet I've been here since two thousand and five and 204 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:56.200 today and for the past ten or twelve years, I've been CMO, but 205 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:01.919 I started off as a marketing coordinator when the company was just thirty five people, 206 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.120 one person in marketing. I was straight out of school. I took 207 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:09.679 the Inter regus as practice. Really I had no intentions of joining the company, 208 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:15.720 but here I am seventeen years later and I've been so fortunate. I 209 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:18.759 was given so much autonomy and trust early on. I felt true ownership really 210 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:24.960 early and that brought me here. But ultimately what's kept me here I'm consistent 211 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:28.720 and sharing is just it's the people and the opportunity. I think, to 212 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:31.919 your point, it is fairly unique for a CMO to be with a company 213 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:35.480 for so long, and particularly in technology. I think what what I often 214 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:39.039 see is somebody might swoop in as a new CMO, maybe do a big 215 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:43.399 rebrand or brand campaign of some sort, then the kind of piece out. 216 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.600 They don't always live in it, roll around in it. I've been really 217 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:50.919 interested in sticking around for that, going through all the different phases of growth, 218 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:54.840 different types of challenges, and what I've also seen in tech and particular, 219 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:58.960 is that some leaders are really affected and get really fired up at's say, 220 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:03.360 the star up stage, but they hate the larger scale or vice versa. 221 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:05.879 And I've been really proud of myself for being able to step up to 222 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:11.320 these new challenges as we as we've grown, learned something new every step of 223 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:16.720 the way and keep up and lead us through that consistently changing growth and challenge 224 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:22.320 and excitement. Yeah, as you scale, as you mentioned right and especially, 225 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:26.120 I would say, right now with the great resignation and people just kind 226 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:31.799 of renegotiating on a personal level what they want from work, recruitment and retention 227 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:37.039 have become this vital conversation and so we were talking about that before we jumped 228 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:41.200 on here and recorded. But how specifically and be to be are you seeing 229 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:43.360 this play out, Susan? Yeah, it's near and dear to my heart 230 00:15:43.399 --> 00:15:46.600 because you know, I sums is the talent cloud company. We have software 231 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:50.480 to help companies attract and gage higher and advance great talent and I think we 232 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:56.759 have a best in class, World Class Marketing Organization here. But the reality 233 00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:02.360 is finding and retaining talent is so important and it's so hard. Every marketing 234 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:06.639 leader that I'm sure is listening today feels that. Every business leader to the 235 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:10.720 left and right of them feels that it's the topic and every board meeting. 236 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:15.039 I have to believe that I would place big money on that. Yet HR 237 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:19.480 and see level executives are still struggling. So we have some really interesting data. 238 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:23.440 We support some of the world biggest brands, companies like target and Amazon, 239 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:30.639 and we have about well, we're going through millions and billions of transactions 240 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:33.919 every year and so we see some really interesting information. So, as an 241 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:37.879 example, the end of two thousand and twenty one job openings were up almost 242 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:41.600 ninety percent, but job applications were down more than ten percent. So this 243 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:47.159 gap is just way too big from a supply and demand perspective. We're seeing 244 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:51.320 in some cases, particularly in me to be that executives are offering comp increases, 245 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:55.039 of course to retain their talent. Makes Sense on average about seven percent 246 00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:59.279 this ear but employers are looking for more. Or maybe said another way, 247 00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:02.799 if comp isn't the only tool you have or you feel like you can offer 248 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:07.319 seven percent, there are other levers. So we're seeing that employees are saying 249 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:11.079 flexibility, both in terms of the day's worked or the hours worked, flexibility 250 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:17.400 in terms of location and internal growth. Opportunities will keep them with a company. 251 00:17:17.960 --> 00:17:21.279 But HR isn't acting like that. So it's really interesting. We saw 252 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:25.720 that in our data. Only about a third of the HR professionals we talked 253 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:30.079 to actually had a plan and providing steps and pathways for growth within a company. 254 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:34.559 Only about a third or planning on investing in internal mobility, but more 255 00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:37.960 than eighty percent of them are saying this turnover is having a massive impact on 256 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:41.599 our business in a negative way, so we've got to fix that. There's 257 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:45.200 just way too big of a disconnect there. We just see this really cool 258 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:49.839 opportunity to fix that with our technology, with our solutions. But it's something 259 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:52.440 that's really near and dear to my heart, obviously having been here for so 260 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.480 long, that I believe companies can and should do better. Yeah, talk 261 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:00.880 to me for a minute about that disconnect. Why do you think they can, 262 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:03.079 you know, say hey, man, we got to do something about 263 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:08.720 this. Yet this idea of internal mobility is not something on the forefront of 264 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:12.559 where people are actually taking action at this moment as we're having this conversation. 265 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:18.200 Tough, I think in some cases there is maybe confusion on ownership. I 266 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:22.759 see so many similarities to what we see in being to be marketing, where 267 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:27.079 I'm sure many keeps can attest where, especially in something like sess, you 268 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:32.000 can have a leaky bucket and everyone keeps focusing on top of final top of 269 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:34.279 funnel, top of funnel, and you might be churning customers or they're not 270 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:40.039 growing or they're down downsizing or whatever, and yet everyone's still keep talking about 271 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:41.880 like what's your new, you know, search campaign or something like that, 272 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:48.400 like what? No really here? Where these organizations? It's not like they 273 00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:52.000 don't care, it's not like they don't want to invest, but they're spending 274 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:55.240 and they're testing in this research that they're spending more of their time, their 275 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:59.599 energy and their money on essentially top of funnel, new recruitment. How do 276 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:03.240 we bring in New People? And chances are they're paying those people more than 277 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:07.240 the people who left. They're spending time and losing productivity. Right the same 278 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.559 things we see on the BB side, and where I see an interesting opportunities, 279 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:15.559 like we've seen in more than twenty years of developing this really cool recruiting 280 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:18.839 and can engagement software, is that you can now face it in word, 281 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:22.000 if you think about just a real life example today and employ in your company 282 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:26.519 could apply on the same day for a job internally within that company or externally 283 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:32.000 with another company, and chance are externally. They're getting corded right. They're 284 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:36.000 getting all this love from recruiters on linked in or wherever else. They're made 285 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:38.359 to feel really good, really special about who they are, what they bring 286 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:42.039 to the table. They get lots of updates about where they are in the 287 00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:48.160 process. Maybe they get really cool engaging tools, personalized experiences using video, 288 00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:52.680 beautiful branding. It get really excited. Internally, if they apply on that 289 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.400 same day, they're probably going through like a one thousand nine hundred and ninety 290 00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:00.440 five experience where they get this like really lame online portal, they fill out 291 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:04.640 all this information that the company should definitely already know about them because they already 292 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:10.640 work there. Recruiting proactively going after them within that company. They're going after 293 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:15.480 their friend who they saw on Linkedin, and then nobody actually even like follows 294 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.880 up with them or makes them feel really good. It's really sterile, and 295 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.759 so something just feels wrong when we're making people we don't even know feel so 296 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.880 much better than the people we do know. And the reality is, if 297 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:30.799 those internal candidates are having these crappy experience. Chances are they're going to bolt 298 00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.160 within three months and they won't stay with the company. So there's really a 299 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:37.960 better way to bridge that gap using some of these really modern tools and technologies 300 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:41.880 and, frankly, things we've learned in marketing and applying it to recruiting and 301 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:45.680 more specifically internal recruiting. Okay, so with that in mind, I think 302 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:51.319 when we think of recruitment, oftentimes it's sitting in like an HR function, 303 00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:53.359 right, but then now more than ever, we kind of need someone, 304 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:57.359 and you've alluded to this, with that marketing bend or that kind of background 305 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:02.720 to fill the seat. To talk about that a little bit. How Marketing 306 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:06.480 in your mind, plays a role actually, both in recruitment and internally. 307 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:10.640 If you have that marketing mind, it can be a pretty big asset to 308 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:14.440 your company. Right. For sure. I think when when you think about 309 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:18.559 strong talent acquisition or recruiting, we might not know it right away, but 310 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:22.319 it's probably good because they have good marketing. And it doesn't mean the marketing 311 00:21:22.359 --> 00:21:26.960 department you know, or you know Fabulousmo but if you think about what would 312 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:33.039 make a good talent acquisition function organization, they probably have a well respected destination 313 00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:37.680 employer brand or people want to come to them just like a strong inbound machine. 314 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:42.839 They probably a really solid understanding of metrics and they're able to think about 315 00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:47.279 it almost like a demand waterfall. Right of okay, if it takes x 316 00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:49.039 number of days to fill these roles, we need to post the roles, 317 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.359 you know, and that number of days and so on. It's the same 318 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.359 mentality as what we do INB marketing. Then when you think about some of 319 00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:02.400 the branding side, those companies want to showcase their culture on their their site 320 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:07.839 and social media channels and company blogs, in video. That's marketing function. 321 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.839 To really show that authentic story. Companies really need somebody who has a passion 322 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:17.200 to do this, in a talent to do this and that marketing centric view. 323 00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:19.519 They have to be thinking about those metrics that we live and breathe. 324 00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:22.720 You know. What are the Click for rates? What are the what's the 325 00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:26.759 visitor trafficking conversion? Help me understand what these heat maps mean. How do 326 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:30.279 I frame the value proposition? What does that mean for social campaigns? And 327 00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:34.319 then when we think about some of the technologies, they're marketing technologies, marketing 328 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:40.720 automation. It's candidate relationship management as a crm instead of customer relationship management, 329 00:22:41.559 --> 00:22:47.119 you to generate a content like tick tock that marketers know so well, and 330 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:51.079 I think what people often forget is that when you're marketing to candidates or employees, 331 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:55.519 they're just people, they're just regular people, and just like we're really 332 00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:59.440 good at marketing to regular people in a be tob or potentially be TOC context, 333 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:03.039 same thing applies here. So I think it's such an exciting world to 334 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:06.559 see these two things come together, because they should write like the things we've 335 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:08.799 learned already and be tob. Why are we wasting time trying to reinvent the 336 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:12.839 wheel and recruiting? Like just take those concepts and it's technologies and bring them 337 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:18.240 in for recruiting NHR as well. It seems like a Dobrainer, but obviously 338 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:21.960 with how fast business is moving, you can be really hard to like get 339 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:25.440 the momentum in the flywheel turning to do some of this. So let me 340 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:27.519 put you in a situation. I know you spent seventeen years at Issom, 341 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:33.920 so let's just say we take Susan out of her currency emo role and we 342 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:40.480 drop her somewhere new and you're looking to up the level within that new company 343 00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:42.559 right in the way that you recruit. What's like the first thing you would 344 00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:47.880 do and what would you pay attention to? With that marketing mindset in mind 345 00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:52.839 as well, I think people need to look at the metrics first and foremost, 346 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.400 but probably in that same beat is they have to look internally. There's 347 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:03.359 such a missed opportunity where people, I think, are not understanding how easy 348 00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:07.079 it could be to move people within an organization in two roles that they haven't 349 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:11.359 considered. It's straight. It's really weird shoally, because those internal candidates have 350 00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:15.440 so much to offer. They know the inner workings of the company. They 351 00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:18.440 can hit the ground running. So they might not know some of the hard 352 00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:21.519 skills that you need to train them on, but they know so much more. 353 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:26.119 So those would be my toes. First, better understand your internal employee 354 00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:30.000 population and where there are transferable skills, and the second would be better understanding 355 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:37.000 than metrics and more specifically, you know time to film metrics and volume metrics. 356 00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:40.559 Build a funnel for these roles, to know what you need to do 357 00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:42.920 to get ahead of it, to build these pipelines. I think there's still 358 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:48.960 so much just in time recruiting and not enough pipelining and really building talent bowls 359 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:52.640 that you can then tap into when the time is right. Let's talk about 360 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:57.240 better understanding internal talent for a second. What are the mechanisms? How how 361 00:24:57.400 --> 00:25:03.279 you actually tracking that and thinking throughout? This person may have a seat over 362 00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:07.200 here or this could be a potential path for them. There's some change management 363 00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:10.519 I think any company needs to go through, whether it's for internal or external, 364 00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:15.200 and that is thinking about skills and not experience. And I battle my 365 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:19.319 own good ones where they think they need ten years of XYZ experience, you 366 00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:22.720 know, product marketing experience in be to be, you know, NBA, 367 00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:26.319 prefer and like for what like, and I'll blow it up. I mean 368 00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:32.200 like. It's just a conversation. You know, somebody who just has some 369 00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:36.640 of these capabilities could be extremely successful in these roles. And I said, 370 00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:41.319 there's definitely change management. That being said, I think there's opportunity with technologies 371 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:45.279 like what Isond's offers. We have some awesome AI capabilities that allow people to 372 00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:48.880 better understand skills, mapping to say somebody's good at this, they could be 373 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:52.920 good at that and therefore you should consider them for this role. So I 374 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:56.759 think there's a cool opportunity there. We launched a couple months back something called 375 00:25:56.799 --> 00:26:03.480 Opportunity Market Place that essentially allows people to take all of these different capabilities to 376 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:07.519 really deliver that incredible experience that you get to external candidates and let internal candidates 377 00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:11.880 know about these new opportunities build out their own skills profiles so that they can 378 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:15.480 be considered for new full time roles, but also for projects and gigs that 379 00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:21.519 really just give them more experience to bring to the table for other opportunities and, 380 00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:25.079 frankly, keep them out of company because they're stretching their legs a little 381 00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:29.119 bit more. Some of it, though, I think, still human, 382 00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:32.799 right as it should be, where, for example, like it's important to 383 00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:34.160 me. It's a very big part of who I am as a leader at 384 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.799 the company to go and tap people on the shoulders say I think you'd really 385 00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:41.400 be good at this, and not enough leaders do that. I don't know 386 00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:48.079 why, but I think what I've seen is that so few individual contributors or 387 00:26:48.119 --> 00:26:52.680 managers or the like recognize what their transferable skills are. They think they're really 388 00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:56.720 good at social media or they think they're really good at internal calms. Or 389 00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:00.359 something like that, and don't recognize the heart of what they're good and the 390 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:03.759 fifteen other roles that they might be really good at as a result, and 391 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:07.000 I think they need that objective leadership view to say like no, no, 392 00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:08.519 you'd be so good at this. Give it a try. You have my 393 00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:12.000 faith. That's something that I've done quite a bit of and I take a 394 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:17.799 lot of pride in because I think it's important. Leaders have to be extra 395 00:27:17.920 --> 00:27:22.519 intentional now to in the remote environment that we're in, because tapping someone on 396 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:26.440 the shoulder is like harder than ever. So when we're talking about like retention 397 00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:32.400 of employees right, and then you throw in the fact that workers can much 398 00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:37.440 easier feel disconnected, the chances of them going somewhere else where they like all 399 00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:40.799 this transferable skills, just going to go get me more compensation or more flex 400 00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:45.400 or more internal opportunity like that, ability of a leader to tap someone on 401 00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:48.759 a shoulder virtually becomes extremely vital. Susan, can you give me a couple 402 00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:53.319 examples of your time and leadership how you've practically done that? Maybe someone that 403 00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:57.640 you saw transferable skill in and they were able to move into a roll that 404 00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:03.039 maybe further their career. Yeah, for sure, I think you nailed it 405 00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:06.680 and saying intentional and it. It's work. I mean it's something that fills 406 00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:08.000 me up, for sure, but it's something you have to literally carved time 407 00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:11.319 out of your day to go do, and I don't know if everybody prioritizes 408 00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:15.519 that as much as maybe they could, for good reason right or like, 409 00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:17.920 I don't I got to go fill up pipeline, like I'll do this another 410 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.359 day. But for me comes in a couple ways. One is when I 411 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:26.960 just have regular skip level conversations with my teams in better understanding what is the 412 00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:30.240 work that's lighting you up and what is the work that like? If you 413 00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:33.960 never had to do again, it would be amazing. And when you literally 414 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:37.000 just ask the question. I think typically a leadership level you know enough about 415 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:40.559 the company and broad speaking, so I'm like, okay, if they like 416 00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:44.000 this, they'd probably like this as well. You also have the infect food 417 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:47.160 typically of a new role might be opening up or there might be turnover or 418 00:28:47.240 --> 00:28:51.000 something like that, where you could start recommending people for things. The other 419 00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:53.000 is in some cases where I just see people have been in a role for 420 00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:56.839 frankly too long. I don't think it's healthy to be in one role that 421 00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.640 isn't changing much for too long, which I know sounds ridiculous given my tenure 422 00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:06.319 here, but if I hadn't been allowed to hop around into different projects, 423 00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:08.839 own different teams, I would have been out the door. So that actually 424 00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:12.759 just happened this week where I had identified somebody in a neighboring team. I'm 425 00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:15.799 like, I think she's been here too long. I think we got to 426 00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:19.000 steal our and we did that all above board. And then another one that 427 00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:22.880 I also really liked was we had a member of my team on the events 428 00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:26.440 team in particular, and she's so great, and we were opening a new 429 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.519 role within the company for Culture and engagement actually kind of doing the things that 430 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:33.200 we're talking about at scale. What are the different employee engagement things? We're 431 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:37.440 doing town halls, all of that. It's a Maggie's going to be so 432 00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:41.599 good at this. She just the core thing she's good at and her heart 433 00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:44.319 and that I know she's fired up about, or exactly what she could be 434 00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:47.519 doing here and she could build something. And of course we had an open 435 00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:49.880 interview process. We consider last candidates for the role, but ultimately Maggie stepped 436 00:29:49.880 --> 00:29:53.400 into that role. She's just crushing it and I really do get so much 437 00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:56.400 pride in seeing that, not because the role I played, but just that 438 00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:00.839 people are now able to see themselves as something bigger, different from maybe, 439 00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:06.359 but they pigeon hold themselves as prior so this is a follow up question that 440 00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:08.480 I'll just put you on the spot with. But when it comes to cultural 441 00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:15.079 engagement at ISMS and how you're creating this type of cohesive environment for employees right, 442 00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.160 what do you think has been like the biggest catalyst for that? What 443 00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:22.920 do you see as a momentum build or something maybe that she implemented or just 444 00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:26.559 that you guys have in your structure that is beneficial to retention? Yeah, 445 00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:30.000 the culture has always been so important at I, since in the last few 446 00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:33.720 years a lot of its shifted, obviously given covid, but for a long 447 00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:38.519 time we were very New Jersey centric. It's where our headquarters at is. 448 00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:42.839 We had some locations and say London and you know, globally, but for 449 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:47.839 the most part we are very local and we had some remotes that struggled because 450 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:51.799 they weren't so local, and so covid obviously shook all of that up and 451 00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:55.079 a million other things, obviously, but if forced us to figure out how 452 00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:59.359 to do this in a different way remotely. We then started going back into 453 00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:03.079 the office, not required, it was voluntary. But if I had to 454 00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:07.400 pick one thing, we instituted something called one Isison's Wednesday, where people could 455 00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:11.079 go back five days a week if they wanted, but there were one or 456 00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:14.960 two. Started with one Wednesday per month where we said this is the day 457 00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:18.400 where, if you're going to go, you should go. Everybody's relatively local 458 00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:21.920 as going this day. We have activities planned. It's not a meeting every 459 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:25.200 day. You know, you shouldn't be on zoom all day. It's the 460 00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:29.279 quarterly meeting, it's the socials, it's, you know, volunteer opportunities, 461 00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:32.559 things like that, which were really fun and that way, when people did 462 00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:36.400 go in, they weren't like one of seven people in an entire building and 463 00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:38.799 just sitting in front of their computer all day. Magg he's done a phenomenal 464 00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:42.680 job with that phenomenal and it's gone over really well because people know what to 465 00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:47.920 expect. Yep, Yep. I think you can do this in so many 466 00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:51.880 different ways, but implementing something, even talking to a company that just does 467 00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:53.920 office hours even though they're fully remote, but they basically just all get on 468 00:31:55.000 --> 00:31:57.880 zoom and work together with their little team and stuff like that that you can 469 00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:01.839 implement so that people feel connected to each other is going to help with retention 470 00:32:01.880 --> 00:32:05.720 more than I think we even realize, as we're still kind of just coming 471 00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:08.240 out of covid and remote work is still like the cool thing to talk about 472 00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:13.480 and flex work is still this fun thing. But then we're going to swing 473 00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:16.799 that pendulum right to a certain extent where it's like okay, also though retention 474 00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:22.400 and also though company culture, and so we're asking all those questions right now 475 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:24.480 and no one has it perfectly figured out, but I appreciate you sharing that. 476 00:32:24.519 --> 00:32:27.839 Anything else that you would give away before we move on from that? 477 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:30.119 Well, I think one of the challenges is that, I mean especially in 478 00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:34.039 a marketing world. I'm sure a lot of the folks listening traveled a lot 479 00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:37.240 or used to travel. You there for customer events or speaking engagements or trade 480 00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:40.079 shows, and so much of my best connection with my colleagues in marketing or 481 00:32:40.119 --> 00:32:45.039 otherwise has after the trade show when you're all getting drinks or you're you know, 482 00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:46.920 you're walking, you're going to the airport, of what IFSOS in between 483 00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:51.799 moments that we lose, not because it's remote per se, but just we 484 00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:54.079 haven't had as much of that kind of downtime, kind of just like shooting 485 00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:58.400 the breeze type of opportunity, and that's, frankly, where a lot of 486 00:32:58.400 --> 00:33:01.640 my conversations with my team came in. Of Villain okay is still in this. 487 00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:06.279 You get an itchy like when we think about retension, and so we 488 00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:10.720 now have to just schedule that differently where it's not as happenstance or serendipitous, 489 00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:15.920 but it is again more intentional and hopefully as we start seeing travel and things 490 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:19.720 like that come back more in earnest, those opportunities pop back up, because 491 00:33:19.720 --> 00:33:22.440 I feel like I learned more in those, you know, airport delays and 492 00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:27.400 layovers and that kind of thing. And then almost any other time was we 493 00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:30.960 start to wrap this conversation up, Susan any changes that you did invite our 494 00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:37.759 listeners to make in their approach to recruitment and retention. Specifically, start thinking 495 00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:40.279 about it like marketing. It's we've been talking about it for a long time, 496 00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:44.839 but when you literally break down all these different areas of marketing and more 497 00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:50.200 tech, particularly in B Tob. It's crazy when you think about the overlaps, 498 00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:52.119 when you think about, you know, email marketing and drip marketing and 499 00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:57.799 how that applies to candidate relationship management and marketing automation. When we think about 500 00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:01.599 Seo for corporate sites and then optimizing your job postings, you're not paying for 501 00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:07.279 Clicks on Third Party job boards. When we think about count profiling and lead 502 00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:10.320 scoring, the same things should be happening with your candidates personalization and ABM. 503 00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:15.159 You could be doing that with dynamic career site content, these funnel metrics and 504 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:20.079 programmatic literally all of it applies to recruiting as well. So I share that 505 00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:22.400 because, a there might be a new career opportunity for those on the phone 506 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:24.920 who might be, you know, also looking for internal mouths like I can 507 00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:29.639 really shake things up with the new mindset if I stepped into a talent type 508 00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:35.119 role. But I also heard up because marketers should get more involved. I 509 00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:38.559 think most marketers put hr request to the bottom of their list because they're worried 510 00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:44.199 about revenue and they're doing a lot of other important things without recognizing that. 511 00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:46.960 If we get that right, it's a lot smoother sailing for marketing as well, 512 00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:51.559 and so I would say try to prioritize and get involved, and maybe 513 00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:54.440 seeing it as a new marketing challenge allows us to do that in a way 514 00:34:54.480 --> 00:35:00.039 that excites us. Yeah, set up some meetings between marketing and HR maybe, 515 00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:02.280 and let them talk to each other and bounce ideas off of each other 516 00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:06.800 and watch what springs and maybe you end up sending it a marketer over to 517 00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:09.079 a new division. I love that. I think that's great insight and honestly, 518 00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:13.039 ever since you've brought this up, how similar they are, I can't 519 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:15.079 get it out of my mind. It's like just lodged in there and I 520 00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:19.800 start to see all these similarities. So I think that's wonderful. I'm sorry, 521 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.280 it's going to say. Just yesterday we literally acquired a company called candidate 522 00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:28.239 I date. It's a marketing automation technology for recruiting. It's like a mercator 523 00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:31.719 and before recruiting, feel like this is very real and you just start seeing 524 00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:34.760 all these use cases. Thing like yeah, this is brilliant, this is 525 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.519 how we should be doing it. Why are we pretending like it's a completely 526 00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:39.719 different world? So it's excites fun stuff. I dared out to it, 527 00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:44.039 but I think it's so cool like it. Okay, so I did want 528 00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:47.440 to mention right here at the end because so we gave away some stats earlier 529 00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:52.840 and you talked about some of just reporting that you guys had seen and you 530 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:57.480 recently released a two thousand and twenty two workforce report that people can go check 531 00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:00.440 out. Where can people gain acts us to that and take a look and 532 00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:05.079 see some of your findings? Yeah, it's on our corporate site. It's 533 00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:08.880 I see. I am as a Marys is in Sam isincom. It's under 534 00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:13.280 research. It's called the workforce report. There's a ton of other insights and 535 00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:16.599 thought leadership there as well, and certainly encourage anyone connect with me on Linkedin 536 00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:22.559 or on twitter. On twitter, Susan Underscore Vitally Din, same name. 537 00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:25.440 Would love to keep in touch. Love it well. Thank you so much 538 00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:30.079 for spending some time with us, Susan. I know our our listeners are 539 00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:31.880 going to be really grateful for that, and for those that are listening, 540 00:36:31.960 --> 00:36:35.559 if you haven't subscribed yet, to be to be gross. You can do 541 00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:38.440 that whatever podcast player you're listening to this on, and you can connect with 542 00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:43.119 me on Linkedin as well. Just search Benji Block, Susan vitally, thank 543 00:36:43.159 --> 00:36:45.599 you so much for being on B tob growth today. Thank you. This 544 00:36:45.719 --> 00:37:00.239 is awesome. If you enjoyed a day show, hit subscribe for more marketing 545 00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:04.320 goodness. And if you really enjoyed the day show, take a second to 546 00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:07.599 rate and review the podcast on the platform you're listening to it on right now. 547 00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:12.639 If you really really enjoyed this episode, share the love by texting you 548 00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:15.039 to a friend who would find it insightful. Thanks for listening and thanks for 549 00:37:15.079 --> sharing.