Every Friday we share one non-obvious insight from your favorite creators in our newsletter.
June 1, 2020

#Sales 2: Sales Cybernetics Defined: How it Replaces Humans with AI w/ Justin Michael

The player is loading ...
B2B Growth

Silicon Valley veteran and sales cybernetics mastermind, Justin Michael, Regional Vice President of Sales at YouAppi, brings an enormous amount of research and knowledge to the AI sales space and kills it.

What we talked about:

  • Deep dive into the psychology behind the sales process
  • How AI can catapult your sales forward 
  • Being ahead of the tech curve 

You can find this interview, and many more, by subscribing to the B2B Growth Show on Apple Podcasts, on our website, or on Spotify.

This #Sales episode is hosted by Patrick Downs, Sales Enablement & Training Manager at Pandadoc.  

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:09.429 When you have a competitor and a commodetize SASS product. If you know how 2 00:00:09.470 --> 00:00:12.109 to use these sales tech platforms and they don't, you're going to lap the 3 00:00:12.150 --> 00:00:15.029 sellers at your competitor. You're going to build a sales machine and engine. 4 00:00:15.269 --> 00:00:19.870 They're going to be hunting and pecking and you're going to have a howitzer everybody. 5 00:00:20.070 --> 00:00:23.539 Thanks for listening to the sales series on BB growth. I'm your host, 6 00:00:23.579 --> 00:00:28.100 Patrick downs, so we've never really talked one on one before, so 7 00:00:28.179 --> 00:00:30.859 I just want to chat with you for a little bit. I've read the 8 00:00:30.940 --> 00:00:34.179 First Section of your book. I talked to amy about you quite a bit, 9 00:00:34.219 --> 00:00:37.689 but I'd like to hear about you and your own words. Yeah, 10 00:00:37.890 --> 00:00:42.049 so I've been sort of obsessed with technology my whole life. I have a 11 00:00:42.130 --> 00:00:48.770 brother who's an inventor at Google who built a couple different divisions and I kind 12 00:00:48.770 --> 00:00:53.000 of followed him up to Silicon Valley and got started in Sass. My first 13 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:58.359 job was working for Shawn Parker, facebook fame, working on nonprofits as tools 14 00:00:59.079 --> 00:01:03.280 with corporations and doing like corporate social responsibility, and I from there ended up 15 00:01:03.310 --> 00:01:07.269 going to salesports, marketing cloud and then working for a vast or array of 16 00:01:07.430 --> 00:01:14.709 mobile technology companies. I was always excited about cracking into new business because in 17 00:01:14.829 --> 00:01:17.709 my I just turned forty, but in my late s and mid S I 18 00:01:17.829 --> 00:01:22.620 was doing a lot of inside sales and getting excited about SASS new business. 19 00:01:22.659 --> 00:01:26.379 I just started reading all these amazing authors, from jetblood to Mike Wienberg to 20 00:01:26.260 --> 00:01:30.780 Jill Conra, and then, once a lot of the theories of what to 21 00:01:30.819 --> 00:01:34.209 do on phone and email came before, I became pretty obsessed on finding every 22 00:01:34.329 --> 00:01:40.129 technique, AC strategy, piece of tech and trying it and I just moved 23 00:01:40.170 --> 00:01:42.769 up the ladder. I became a regional vice president of sales, a worldwide 24 00:01:42.769 --> 00:01:48.079 leader of sales development team. I was an RVP and dotted line over strs 25 00:01:48.159 --> 00:01:51.200 and over and over and over we were trying to crack the top funnel problem. 26 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:53.920 There's always like a pipeline that needed work. We always needed to bring 27 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:57.560 a new stuff of the business, and I even work with a lot of 28 00:01:57.680 --> 00:02:01.390 third party like outsourcers. And so what happened is I had CEOS and VC's 29 00:02:01.469 --> 00:02:06.510 come to me and say you are the best we have ever seen at the 30 00:02:06.590 --> 00:02:09.590 top funnel problem, like getting the fish to the boat and that sort of 31 00:02:09.669 --> 00:02:14.069 just fueled my fire. What happened after that is kind of crazy, as 32 00:02:14.110 --> 00:02:19.219 I was hired to automate everything I do, after thirteen years of Sass experience, 33 00:02:19.300 --> 00:02:23.340 in twenty years of sales experience, and to build artificial intelligence and machine 34 00:02:23.340 --> 00:02:25.500 learning. And if this, then that rules engines based on how I approach 35 00:02:27.300 --> 00:02:30.930 sales linguistics and the decisioning across the sales stack. What I started to see 36 00:02:31.129 --> 00:02:37.250 is that there's largely low adoption and technology avoidance of these platforms. And having 37 00:02:37.370 --> 00:02:40.889 sold sales navigator in the Empire State Building and having, you know, consulted 38 00:02:42.009 --> 00:02:46.759 on OPS projects around sales offt and outreach, I realized to crack this problem 39 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:50.319 we need human and machine to work together, and so I needed to write 40 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:53.479 a book to help empower people with ever, whatever text act, they have 41 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.639 to master that stack. And then corona a hit. And so there's no 42 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:01.349 more field selling right, don't don't like the movie cliar rings inside. Let's 43 00:03:01.349 --> 00:03:05.270 run in a different way. But the way it's gone is there's no more 44 00:03:05.349 --> 00:03:07.270 field to it's this is it. This is the closest I can get to 45 00:03:07.310 --> 00:03:13.620 you. And so you have a stack slack gmail sheets could be simple stack. 46 00:03:13.699 --> 00:03:15.819 But maybe you got like you're kicking around hub spot and someone has docks 47 00:03:15.939 --> 00:03:19.139 in and there's some yes, we're here, and there's a zoom over there 48 00:03:19.180 --> 00:03:22.939 and like the highest growth companies a fifteen percent or spending a thousand dollars a 49 00:03:23.060 --> 00:03:27.330 month per person on stack. Right, you've got your naviccount. That's one 50 00:03:27.569 --> 00:03:30.490 costs. And then your engagement. So I step back in a thought like 51 00:03:30.569 --> 00:03:34.370 what is the job of sales? It's your stealing staring at sales navigator and 52 00:03:34.449 --> 00:03:37.449 then you're like, I can't get the street, email and phone numbers, 53 00:03:37.449 --> 00:03:39.250 so I got to go into like Zoom Info, and then I can't just 54 00:03:39.370 --> 00:03:43.159 send emails one at a time, so now I need like groove or San 55 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:46.599 or sales off or overage, some way to automy and dial and then have 56 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.080 to blend all these platforms together. And then you see the like only thirty 57 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:53.159 six percent of the time, like a third of the time, of a 58 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:55.909 developed field, celler stre between like travel and Admin, everything is actually doing 59 00:03:57.110 --> 00:04:00.310 this selling to the this actual interaction of the human, human contact is such 60 00:04:00.310 --> 00:04:04.509 a small piece. Now we're just almost like analysts of tech. We're just 61 00:04:04.590 --> 00:04:10.180 like these manual we're almost limited by the technology. Right. So the book 62 00:04:10.300 --> 00:04:13.259 is to become super human by unlocking the text. St Ac. If you're 63 00:04:13.259 --> 00:04:15.660 advanced and you want to take your stuff to the most advanced level, read 64 00:04:15.660 --> 00:04:18.779 the book. If you're just sitting around wanting to get five percent better, 65 00:04:18.939 --> 00:04:23.339 just try this stuff out. It'll help you to kind of crawl walk around. 66 00:04:23.740 --> 00:04:27.769 Yeah, you describe that function that's largely still manual, even despite the 67 00:04:27.850 --> 00:04:30.209 tech, where you're looking at sales and have you have to go to Zem 68 00:04:30.250 --> 00:04:32.610 and fucket the information poort into sales. Far Stir, are you seeing some 69 00:04:32.730 --> 00:04:36.610 sort of future where that doesn't need to happen and the sales rep is really 70 00:04:36.649 --> 00:04:41.879 just there for the conversation and the personalization piece, or is that the under 71 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:46.759 I think the far future, probably mid S is. You have a product 72 00:04:46.839 --> 00:04:50.959 that org they find the MVP, the minimum bile product. They have traction. 73 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:55.310 Okay, this is selling like word of mouth inbound. It's taking off. 74 00:04:55.430 --> 00:05:00.029 It's solving a pain now instead of hiring humans or a virtual str shop 75 00:05:00.069 --> 00:05:02.709 off shore, having people run systems for you, which all can be done 76 00:05:02.750 --> 00:05:08.980 now expertly. Then there's there's strings and weaknesses. You could basically implement a 77 00:05:09.100 --> 00:05:12.860 piece of automation, sort of like the drift automation BOP. It's it's front 78 00:05:12.860 --> 00:05:15.779 of cipher inbound, but you can go outboun where you give it the ICP, 79 00:05:15.019 --> 00:05:18.420 the personas the verbiage and it runs the AB test and its splices together 80 00:05:18.420 --> 00:05:21.529 all stuff, sets the me on counter. It does a qualification right. 81 00:05:23.250 --> 00:05:26.769 This is very future steak because when I tried to build it and help spend 82 00:05:26.810 --> 00:05:30.889 millions to do this and had great growth, there's certain aspects where it's just 83 00:05:31.649 --> 00:05:35.319 look like the Linkedin apis closed. They frown upon automating it. So at 84 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:40.399 least the social piece you can automat. There's elements of the reply management. 85 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:43.240 We're just not there yet. I think in the future we're going to get 86 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.240 there. What I've noticed is if you do open an email and it's come 87 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:51.910 from a machine and it's done right, there's enough personalization, relevance and context, 88 00:05:53.550 --> 00:05:57.870 technographic, psychographic, demographic, it is very hard for me to know 89 00:05:58.110 --> 00:06:00.709 that you didn't write that. You could have programmed it, but it could 90 00:06:00.709 --> 00:06:04.819 be a batch or template or could be sitting out of like one to many, 91 00:06:05.180 --> 00:06:09.620 but it's so personalized I'm like, yeah, we do have that friend 92 00:06:09.660 --> 00:06:12.939 in common I did work for that company. We do have this pain. 93 00:06:13.740 --> 00:06:16.860 It's so like the stuff that I was building and automating was passing the turing 94 00:06:16.899 --> 00:06:19.290 tasks, like people were just taking the meetings and had no idea it was 95 00:06:19.329 --> 00:06:25.290 coming out of a sequencer. At what point does that becomes so common other 96 00:06:25.329 --> 00:06:30.610 people start recognizing it? I think in the mid late s this becomes a 97 00:06:30.649 --> 00:06:36.439 phenomenon of the STR company start ups running with sands str like SCR x Machina. 98 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:42.160 But the seller is still needed because they're doing the discovery and the creativity, 99 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:45.240 the empathy and the pain and the scoping. Is there's two things. 100 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:48.029 It's either, like sellers, are the more strategic closer operating lower in the 101 00:06:48.029 --> 00:06:53.470 funnel, or, like sellers, are more like sales engineers, where they're 102 00:06:53.509 --> 00:06:57.829 more technical, they're coding and sequel they're they're like the self driving you wer. 103 00:06:57.870 --> 00:07:00.980 They're sitting and making sure the machines aren't running amuck. And so I 104 00:07:01.100 --> 00:07:06.459 think the role of humanity and one to one communication and storytelling and the real 105 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:11.620 you know, buy on emotion and close on the logic. I think the 106 00:07:11.740 --> 00:07:14.779 emotional area, that creativity, the art, much like Kai Foo Lee, 107 00:07:15.259 --> 00:07:18.649 the AI prognosticator says, and China, like humans, are not going away, 108 00:07:18.730 --> 00:07:20.810 they're just going to be an a different place in the value chain. 109 00:07:20.850 --> 00:07:24.889 And then there's this minority report reality toward two thousand and fifty, where you 110 00:07:24.930 --> 00:07:28.689 just select the human option for nostalgia. It's like a record player. Or 111 00:07:29.449 --> 00:07:32.759 look at that wax record, like a LP I. It's we're gonna Find 112 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:39.199 Sam and Jusmin how Queen looks like Jazz. It's like big Fan, but 113 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:43.560 I mean people. That's not the book I wrote because it's funny and it's 114 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:46.790 scary. This book is not about Ai taking your job. It's about you 115 00:07:47.069 --> 00:07:53.509 mastering the current tech and having a metaphramework for learning U Xuis and any platform 116 00:07:53.550 --> 00:07:56.470 that's released. You're going to be the fastest to get it and leverage it. 117 00:07:56.870 --> 00:07:59.939 Let me tell you, when you have a competitor and a commonetize SASS 118 00:07:59.980 --> 00:08:03.339 product, if you know how to use these sales tech platforms and they don't, 119 00:08:03.339 --> 00:08:05.939 you're going to lap the sellers at your competitor. You're going to build 120 00:08:05.980 --> 00:08:09.139 a sales machine and engine and they're going to be hunting and pet pecking and 121 00:08:09.180 --> 00:08:11.100 you're going to have a howitzer and to go back for a second use of 122 00:08:11.180 --> 00:08:13.810 this is like about a decade ago when you started your work on this right. 123 00:08:13.850 --> 00:08:18.250 Yeah, I would say that like working on platforms like serious insight, 124 00:08:18.769 --> 00:08:24.769 towed APP and yes, where an early derivations of let's program emails or just 125 00:08:24.889 --> 00:08:28.800 doing male merges in Gmail. You know, I then I was managing a 126 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:31.799 sales team from a corn field and a third first game and said we're going 127 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.279 to map all your second and third to be connections, like all of them, 128 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:37.799 and email of them, personalize and just on lock meetings. And they 129 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:41.870 started generating twelve meetings a day and then and then I got like a hundred, 130 00:08:41.909 --> 00:08:45.350 fifty dealt one, seven bigger deal at one. Suddenly the can to 131 00:08:45.389 --> 00:08:48.350 me said we're done. It's like we're four months in. You know, 132 00:08:48.669 --> 00:08:50.629 there's a pretty decent amount of money. I paid them nothing. Nothing. 133 00:08:50.750 --> 00:08:54.029 You're a full time equivalent high US yards. As what what happened, and 134 00:08:54.110 --> 00:09:00.059 they said we contected everyone. And the problem is we were going up to 135 00:09:00.100 --> 00:09:03.460 fort when thousand retail and there's a total addressabul market was small and the problems 136 00:09:03.500 --> 00:09:07.940 technology is if you overdo it, you just you spam the Tim you blow 137 00:09:07.100 --> 00:09:11.129 the Tam like basically the problem with all the automation it's just there's only two 138 00:09:11.169 --> 00:09:15.570 hundred cmos you possibly could sell to and you send them all eight to fifteen 139 00:09:15.570 --> 00:09:18.889 emails and they all make a decision. You're kind of done because then they're 140 00:09:18.889 --> 00:09:22.330 just they've already said remove, you've already cut three percent. And so when 141 00:09:22.409 --> 00:09:26.279 I do Automichian now I have a tiered approach. I have like, okay, 142 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:28.879 here's the first here where we're going to have some manual intervention where you're 143 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:33.879 going to slow down as pyramiddle to if these are c level prospects, like 144 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:37.679 a Cmo, like you send a email, the CMO verising, like boom, 145 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:41.149 you get like an auto respond to remove. So like the precious deciders, 146 00:09:41.509 --> 00:09:46.070 less frequent, and then closer down in the operational user level you can 147 00:09:46.110 --> 00:09:50.470 go more often. So I actually like have a pyramid of hierarchy on how 148 00:09:50.509 --> 00:09:54.700 to do the sequencing, when to over personalize in you know, there's just 149 00:09:54.899 --> 00:09:58.659 there's a lot of theory on this that thinks effective. I'm curious about how 150 00:09:58.659 --> 00:10:03.820 you feel about this because you said that down the funnel, when you're doing 151 00:10:03.860 --> 00:10:07.570 a lot of storytelling and using human emotion, that's where the cellar really comes 152 00:10:07.610 --> 00:10:11.009 in with their the real value. Do you see that having any value at 153 00:10:11.009 --> 00:10:16.730 the top of the funnel? You know, really brilliant and beautiful automation and 154 00:10:16.250 --> 00:10:20.129 is emotional and it is visual, and I talked about this on another meeting. 155 00:10:20.129 --> 00:10:24.159 I kind of want this to be my calling card of an unorthodox approach. 156 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:28.919 I've really been interested in persuasion and the work of Dr Robert Shield Uni 157 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:33.159 and influence and also neuroscience and there's a lot of books. David Hoftfield, 158 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:39.309 the science of selling, gets really into neurological studies. Basically, as you're 159 00:10:39.389 --> 00:10:43.149 reading text, these little marching ants your brain is trying to turn into concepts. 160 00:10:43.590 --> 00:10:45.909 If you just, if I just give you a picture, it's worth 161 00:10:45.990 --> 00:10:50.500 sixtyzero words. So email is all about templates, an automation of templates and 162 00:10:50.539 --> 00:10:54.580 personalization, but it's failing because it's words. What I did is I flipped 163 00:10:54.580 --> 00:10:58.299 to visual prospecting and Ben Diagram based prospecting. So I do have end and 164 00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:01.700 this thing is worth like a hundred thousand words. Send it one email from 165 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:07.450 a gmail boom. Chief Digital Officer McDonald's set it appointment on the first send. 166 00:11:07.450 --> 00:11:13.090 Broke the sound barrier on what is possible without reach, by flipping how 167 00:11:13.210 --> 00:11:16.529 the brain works. So I start working with what is a cloud APP, 168 00:11:18.090 --> 00:11:20.720 I think it's called. It's basically gives you explainer, Jeffs. You like 169 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.360 take a piece of your software, the wow moment, your demo or actually 170 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:28.960 the product you just you like a seven second custom jeff start dropping the gifts 171 00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:33.830 into your email threads and then you're unlocking the NEO CORTEX and the visual part 172 00:11:33.870 --> 00:11:35.789 of the brain that's emotional and creative. So yes, yes, yes, 173 00:11:35.870 --> 00:11:39.990 you have to get pain, fear, emotion, creativity. You have to 174 00:11:41.230 --> 00:11:45.870 peek interest and desire by using visuals and email. The taking this to phone, 175 00:11:46.309 --> 00:11:50.500 the Unorthodox piece is to phone is all about phone templates and objective ejectionally 176 00:11:50.500 --> 00:11:54.860 handling and scripts and rebuttals. But eighty percent of that, even ninety, 177 00:11:54.019 --> 00:11:58.100 is like the tone. So phone should be tone, temperts and scripts and 178 00:11:58.139 --> 00:12:01.090 email should be visual and not writing. And so if you just if you 179 00:12:01.210 --> 00:12:05.090 just grasp that, it kind of like explodes the whole paradigm, you know. 180 00:12:05.210 --> 00:12:09.370 And then another really big realization is when people operate on linked in, 181 00:12:09.889 --> 00:12:13.690 they're just kind of like, okay, Patrick, here's my pitch and then 182 00:12:13.769 --> 00:12:16.759 one more like checking in. Wait, what, it's email, five to 183 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:22.600 twelve touches. You need to conduct manual sequencing over linked in, as if 184 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:24.960 it's a sequencer, just because you don't have an API and you can't schedule 185 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:30.509 it. It's the same problem. Someone jument you just connected. Okay, 186 00:12:30.870 --> 00:12:35.509 warm them up route. Who's the best person? Slow down and able educate, 187 00:12:35.629 --> 00:12:37.990 walk up a ladder and been asked for the meeting. Not just connect 188 00:12:39.029 --> 00:12:41.990 and pitch, not just one and done. You've gotta you got to invest 189 00:12:41.149 --> 00:12:48.100 in that channel repetitively adding value along that value cheat. This something I've been 190 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:50.940 thinking about because, as somebody who gets a lot of linked in messages, 191 00:12:52.460 --> 00:12:56.179 it's very rare that I even read them, even more than email. I 192 00:12:56.299 --> 00:12:58.450 know you can archive an email really easily, but I almost get mad at 193 00:12:58.529 --> 00:13:01.409 linkedin messages for and I foundself getting mad, Mick, why am I getting 194 00:13:01.409 --> 00:13:05.730 mad at this? And I started thinking about it and I see Linkedin as 195 00:13:05.330 --> 00:13:09.690 almost a like. It is a social network, right, and I don't 196 00:13:09.690 --> 00:13:11.769 see email as a social tool. So when people trying to pitch me on 197 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:16.159 Linkedin, it feels kind of weird and uncomfortable. Right. So how do 198 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.240 you get past that with people and actually have productive sales conversations there. To 199 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:24.080 be honest with you, right now is and regional vice president of you APP 200 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:26.990 and I saw I run a region and I kind of cover the whole world 201 00:13:26.990 --> 00:13:31.389 now with the crisis and then also just being a sales futurist and my spare 202 00:13:31.429 --> 00:13:33.750 time, for the love of all this, helping everyone get better through the 203 00:13:33.789 --> 00:13:37.509 book and everything which stop published by Harper Collins and we'll be coming out. 204 00:13:37.590 --> 00:13:41.029 So pee me on Linkedin. I'll give you a puppy. I'm driving the 205 00:13:41.070 --> 00:13:43.299 majority of my business at a linkedin. Now everybody's like sheltered in place in 206 00:13:43.299 --> 00:13:48.019 their on the Linkedin. So engagement's crazy. And Jeremy Donovan, it sells 207 00:13:48.100 --> 00:13:52.740 off with the six million emails and within the heights of this pandemic, reply 208 00:13:52.820 --> 00:13:56.690 rates were down thirty six percent. Phone is still really strong channel, but 209 00:13:56.730 --> 00:13:58.049 I'll get people on the phone and be like Hey, way to buy my 210 00:13:58.129 --> 00:14:01.769 number, nice list. So I'm doing in Linkedin is. I understand that 211 00:14:01.809 --> 00:14:05.250 you feel that way, and I start a conversation around the economic graph or 212 00:14:05.289 --> 00:14:09.809 interrasgraph, like maybe about this type of stuff, like what do you think 213 00:14:09.850 --> 00:14:13.840 about the modern sales stack or what do you think about mobile retargeting, or 214 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:16.919 you know what industries are seeing are most effective, and it's like a lateral 215 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.600 conversation which just gets some the ability to start talking with me. We start 216 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:22.080 talking for a while, I start talking about what I'm doing. They find 217 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:24.909 us, say what are you doing day reach for me, and then we 218 00:14:24.990 --> 00:14:28.950 move it to email, and so I'm threading out off of the interest graph 219 00:14:28.029 --> 00:14:31.870 and economic graph. And when I say economic graph, is just like I 220 00:14:31.950 --> 00:14:35.710 sell these user acquisition experts who manage these massive multitens and million budgets to fuel 221 00:14:35.789 --> 00:14:39.100 these mobile advertising and we're all sitting at home. A lot of these APPs 222 00:14:39.100 --> 00:14:43.580 are actually doing well and some more between jobs. So a lot of times 223 00:14:43.620 --> 00:14:46.779 what I'm doing is match making and helping him find a new home, because 224 00:14:46.779 --> 00:14:50.179 I know that once they find that new growth role, they're going to come 225 00:14:50.220 --> 00:14:52.769 to me for ways of my techn help. So I would just think about 226 00:14:54.529 --> 00:14:58.529 like think about linkedin as if it were email and sophisticated in the touches. 227 00:14:58.850 --> 00:15:03.649 Manually take that approach and then, you know, make that the feeder or 228 00:15:03.730 --> 00:15:07.639 the gateway drug to having a real commercial conversation. But you have to do 229 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.600 it slower because it's a drone. It's just like connected pitch, connect to 230 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:13.679 pitch, the next pitch and everybody's just boxing up. So also, powdered 231 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:18.279 interrupt is a big part of my book. Like how can you approach someone 232 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.590 in a different way? Send A hilarious gift, like just like hope you're 233 00:15:22.590 --> 00:15:24.389 doing well, reaching out. This is if you do your basic thing. 234 00:15:24.470 --> 00:15:26.710 It's just like meeting a stranger in the street of me like hey, how 235 00:15:26.750 --> 00:15:28.549 you doing? Find how you do it, and it didn't mean anything. 236 00:15:28.950 --> 00:15:31.950 It's gone. It's good. You'll never think of that person again in your 237 00:15:33.029 --> 00:15:35.299 life. That's often I happened. So it sounds like what you're doing is 238 00:15:35.299 --> 00:15:41.139 you're trying to provoke them to make the ask by providing relevant information or insight 239 00:15:41.179 --> 00:15:45.580 rivene conversation. For the first when I provoke a human being to have a 240 00:15:45.659 --> 00:15:48.779 great conversation. Sure, and if there's no commercial interest in me, that's 241 00:15:48.820 --> 00:15:52.649 even better, because that's like an altruistic modems like you look really interesting and 242 00:15:52.850 --> 00:15:54.370 someone I'd like to do business with. The first that's just have an interesting 243 00:15:54.370 --> 00:15:58.370 conversation about this niche that we've both been in. Wow, you've been a 244 00:15:58.409 --> 00:16:02.970 mobile technology for twelve years. Same with me, thirteen. Like what what 245 00:16:03.129 --> 00:16:04.879 trends are you seeing? What are the challenges? Like? Is this situation 246 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:08.919 affecting you? Is and that's the thing about all this empathies selling is it's 247 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:14.000 not just you know clearly you're going through a rough time, we all are, 248 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:18.320 and then just blanketing everyone with the covid nineteen message. It's more empathy 249 00:16:18.590 --> 00:16:21.950 is carrying about their business and take some time to personalize and they're just such 250 00:16:22.070 --> 00:16:26.070 me raging debates like get, connect and sell and make thousands of dials and 251 00:16:26.149 --> 00:16:30.190 you'll just get the people, that's true, or personalize so much that they're 252 00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:33.539 just so blown away and you'll get a meeting, and that's also true. 253 00:16:33.980 --> 00:16:38.419 But almost like the kind of lifestyle of Selfcare, of moderation, there's spectrums 254 00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:44.379 and extremes that exist in sales tools and sales development philosophy, and somewhere in 255 00:16:44.460 --> 00:16:49.250 the middle is typically what I find actually works. When you strip all the 256 00:16:49.289 --> 00:16:52.889 books away and all the talking heads and your your goal is to hit this 257 00:16:52.970 --> 00:16:56.570 amount of meetings and opportunities and drive this much revenue and you've got no choice, 258 00:16:56.610 --> 00:17:00.639 like burn the ships, you try everything. I always find that somewhere 259 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:03.879 in the middle, like there's a certain amount of calls, you had to 260 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:06.359 make, certain amount of sequences, you had to do a certain amount of 261 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:08.599 social selling. And the biggest, biggest thing I can tell people is the 262 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:14.200 minute someone is comfortable with you, midfunnel, lower funnel, text, WHATSAPP, 263 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:18.190 every audict channel, like as soon as you can get into direct text 264 00:17:18.309 --> 00:17:22.230 and what's up with your prospects, it is the biggest accelerator ever because the 265 00:17:22.349 --> 00:17:23.950 open race, ninety eight percent like by text. You're going to get back 266 00:17:23.990 --> 00:17:26.829 to me. It's so bad that when I get on like group text list 267 00:17:26.910 --> 00:17:30.819 and my phone number from like previous owners of that number, I'm just like 268 00:17:30.980 --> 00:17:33.980 delete, remove, right, but if I get on spam blast emails, 269 00:17:33.019 --> 00:17:37.059 I just markspam. I don't really care. But like text is like if 270 00:17:37.259 --> 00:17:40.420 you text me before you know me, I'm offended. But if we've been 271 00:17:40.460 --> 00:17:42.980 talking about a deal for a couple weeks and then I'd fall into your tax 272 00:17:44.059 --> 00:17:45.690 or phone, you're what's what's up, you're going to be kind of comfortable. 273 00:17:45.690 --> 00:17:48.809 Right. I had a a cro is just doing it all this work 274 00:17:48.849 --> 00:17:52.529 over text and blew my mind. And I worked for a couple companies in 275 00:17:52.569 --> 00:17:56.930 Tel Aviv and they're running everything off their WHATSAPP. The Fidelity and speed is 276 00:17:57.009 --> 00:18:00.680 insane. It's like it's flawless and it's in everyone's on the same page in 277 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.920 real time. I worked at a company where we did our first outrach on 278 00:18:06.200 --> 00:18:11.079 like warm and bound through text and it was our highest conversion. And like, 279 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:12.430 even if they didn't like asked for a demo, is just like they 280 00:18:12.549 --> 00:18:17.630 researched something online related to what we do, we would text them and very 281 00:18:17.670 --> 00:18:21.029 rarely when people get upset, I was actually kind of surprised. That's the 282 00:18:21.109 --> 00:18:25.950 thing about all the channels is that if it's wanted and if it's relevant enough, 283 00:18:26.190 --> 00:18:29.660 it's I remember I was reading wired magazine in this famous CMO made a 284 00:18:29.660 --> 00:18:33.900 quote and I just called her office phone, quoted or quote and said this 285 00:18:33.019 --> 00:18:36.619 is what I think you should do. Is a hotel chain and they're going 286 00:18:36.660 --> 00:18:38.059 to use key this entry through mobile. I was like, this is really 287 00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:41.730 cool and it would really come up for all like this. You know, 288 00:18:41.809 --> 00:18:45.049 had while factor. I forget the exact global campaign, but it's like if 289 00:18:45.049 --> 00:18:48.849 you were sitting at McDonald's, something would ping your phone with an offer for 290 00:18:48.009 --> 00:18:52.130 like a whopper across the street for dollar. It was all Geofense, like 291 00:18:52.250 --> 00:18:55.720 really cool ideas, right, so these wild factor things. She goes ahead 292 00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:59.599 and she responded. It was pretty amazing. She didn't respond to the voicemail, 293 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:02.880 but I said an email after reft seeing the voicemail, saying that personalise 294 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:04.920 script, and they got back to me. Let's so I'm a I'm a 295 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:08.759 fan of personalization and research, but always putting yourself in the prospect shoes. 296 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:11.750 And that's how, like throughout the whole book, the First Pass of the 297 00:19:11.789 --> 00:19:15.990 book, people freaked out, like you're John Connor, this is Skye, 298 00:19:15.150 --> 00:19:21.750 like your sales right, like basically you've created a weapon here to teach anyone 299 00:19:21.910 --> 00:19:25.859 how to like be super human, like x the output, and it can 300 00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:27.380 be used for evil. And that's why I have like a Credo through the 301 00:19:27.420 --> 00:19:33.220 book, like responsible selling, kidspan compliancy and GDP are like the platinum rule. 302 00:19:33.380 --> 00:19:37.259 Like not that you wouldn't mind like check this person out, like if 303 00:19:37.299 --> 00:19:42.250 they seem like small network on Linkedin, pretty conservative, like they're not going 304 00:19:42.289 --> 00:19:48.049 to want to get fifteen automated messages, right, that's probably not their Jin. 305 00:19:49.490 --> 00:19:56.759 No, not at all. This episode was brought to you by Panda 306 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.160 Doc. Panda like the bear and doc like the document. Panda DOC helps 307 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:07.349 over twelvezero businesses create documents faster, streamline their sales processes and look more professional. 308 00:20:07.750 --> 00:20:11.829 GO TO PANDA DOCCOMLA B tob today and start a completely free trial. 309 00:20:12.190 --> 00:20:18.509 No credit card required. I think that waits in the comma. Prospecting a 310 00:20:18.589 --> 00:20:22.619 bed. I'd never heard of the term. It's something that I've done in 311 00:20:22.660 --> 00:20:26.420 the past but didn't even realize I was doing or why, and after reading 312 00:20:26.420 --> 00:20:30.900 it was Tony Hughes right then. Yeah, studying on you. Could you 313 00:20:30.940 --> 00:20:33.900 tell me a little bit more about that? So Tony's been a mentor for 314 00:20:33.019 --> 00:20:38.569 five years and I came out of music marketing on the sunset Strip ages ago, 315 00:20:40.089 --> 00:20:42.769 like early two S and I had a two hundred thousand person my space. 316 00:20:42.809 --> 00:20:48.490 So I was like really, really down with social networking understanding all the 317 00:20:48.529 --> 00:20:49.960 ens announced of it. Actually, when facebook lunch from like that, I'll 318 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:53.240 never work. I can't customize my banner, you know. So I got 319 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:56.839 traded sales for us on the Challenger sale and CEB at the time and it 320 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:00.680 was going through a simulation and then blizzard and I just looked on youtube like 321 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.640 challenge of Challenger. And Tony Hughes came up in Australia and we kind of 322 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.230 did a reverse mentorship where he taught me the whole Pantheon of strategic selling, 323 00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:12.990 from Millerheim into spin selling and Neil Rackham and going back into Taz and battle 324 00:21:14.069 --> 00:21:17.869 plan and, you know, solution sales and customer centric and I've read hundreds 325 00:21:17.869 --> 00:21:22.259 of books and work with him. In return. We were just really what's 326 00:21:22.259 --> 00:21:25.779 so cool about Tony is he's a different generation but he's fully embrace the technology. 327 00:21:25.819 --> 00:21:27.619 So it's almost a TQ story. He starts to go nuts and linked 328 00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:32.220 in writing these two thousand three thousand word post is publisher at the time did 329 00:21:32.299 --> 00:21:33.769 like five hundred of these and he got a brand up. You got three 330 00:21:33.809 --> 00:21:38.130 hundred and fifteen thousand followers. So now for like B tob sales on earth 331 00:21:38.569 --> 00:21:42.130 there's like Mark Hunter, Jill Conrath and Tony all in that like three hundred 332 00:21:42.130 --> 00:21:47.240 and fifty thousand followers range out of seven hundred million profiles. And so he's 333 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:51.240 been my mentor for five years and so we I was the case study in 334 00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:55.160 Combo and now we're co writing TQ. So what is Combo? Basically the 335 00:21:55.319 --> 00:22:00.400 best str reps figured out a staturation principle and it comes mobile phone. Drive 336 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:03.990 to is that if I call you, it buzzes and I don't want to 337 00:22:04.069 --> 00:22:07.670 answer it. I don't recognize a number, probably a robe call. Then 338 00:22:07.109 --> 00:22:10.670 if I leave a voicemail, it buzzes again, and then if I send 339 00:22:10.670 --> 00:22:12.549 an email, buzzes again. And if I set it a tweet or twitter 340 00:22:12.710 --> 00:22:15.900 like it or retweet it, boom and buzzes again. And basically you get 341 00:22:15.980 --> 00:22:21.259 this beast form impact where you as the prospect, you're like, who is 342 00:22:21.339 --> 00:22:26.500 this aggressive solicitor? Stop, no, removed, elte or Hey, this 343 00:22:26.619 --> 00:22:30.210 reminds me of me. They're very hungry. I want to hire you. 344 00:22:30.410 --> 00:22:32.690 Wait, I'm not the right person. Talk to Sallie. So you get 345 00:22:32.769 --> 00:22:36.730 you get a no, remove refer, but there's no vacuum. You come 346 00:22:36.809 --> 00:22:40.170 in like the tide and your voicemail is hey, I'm going to contact you 347 00:22:40.250 --> 00:22:42.170 by email about this. You know, add some social proof. We help 348 00:22:42.210 --> 00:22:47.240 a similar client. Right. What starts to happen is you're no longer trying 349 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:48.640 to call to get the prospect, you're trying to make a call to leave 350 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:52.920 a voicemail. The purpose of the calls to leave the voicemail. The purpose 351 00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:55.400 of the voicemail is send the email. The purpose of all of this is 352 00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:00.910 like like a bill collector. It's only it's a funny analogy. This is 353 00:23:00.990 --> 00:23:03.910 like you know, Patrick, I'm coming for you, like the tide and 354 00:23:04.029 --> 00:23:07.869 the prospects. Literally has to stop you and I've never gotten a street or 355 00:23:07.869 --> 00:23:11.349 in this or any problems like you have to literally say remove. The beauty 356 00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:14.099 of that. I can go to my Ciro and say hey, Patrick said 357 00:23:14.140 --> 00:23:17.819 removed. So like my file is. Here's a top two hundred emium accounts 358 00:23:18.019 --> 00:23:21.660 and I can tell in one quarter where every account is whether they've gone through 359 00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:23.220 a competitor. Don't want to talk now, want to talk in two months 360 00:23:23.220 --> 00:23:27.049 and I have an answer and every other rep has blanks and says I not 361 00:23:27.170 --> 00:23:33.089 much interest because I I'm forcing a response. And the reason I got nicknamed 362 00:23:33.089 --> 00:23:36.529 the machine or the honey badger is I get away with a lot because I 363 00:23:36.650 --> 00:23:40.130 lace this into the nest and empathy. And actually, do you want to 364 00:23:40.170 --> 00:23:41.880 help them? If you sign with me on this product, it will help. 365 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:45.079 You. Only work for things. I believe in that. I only 366 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.680 considered a sale when it's driven the ry so, like I feel a moral 367 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:52.039 obligation to interrupt you and get in front of you if I can help you, 368 00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:56.990 because even if you fight with me about having been solicited or sent to 369 00:23:56.029 --> 00:24:00.069 me an emails or whatever, I actually have your best interest in mind. 370 00:24:00.109 --> 00:24:03.910 And so if you have like a heart centered, good motive to actually help 371 00:24:03.950 --> 00:24:06.950 people and you work for a good company and can help them, you know, 372 00:24:07.190 --> 00:24:10.859 this is what Bosworth said. There's like seven slots. Every prospect has 373 00:24:10.940 --> 00:24:14.019 pain and latent pain and they're sitting there trying to solve a problem, just 374 00:24:14.099 --> 00:24:17.339 like you said about text missing here earlier. If I Combo you, you 375 00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:21.220 have that problem and it's relevant, you'll talk to me. The value of 376 00:24:21.339 --> 00:24:26.089 fixing the problem is better than the interruption. My annoyance about an interruption or 377 00:24:26.089 --> 00:24:30.289 a combo is far less than the fact that dinging mean. Yes, we 378 00:24:30.490 --> 00:24:33.490 just merge, we have two data stores. We've got a consolidate or data 379 00:24:33.490 --> 00:24:36.690 or cum socks. Are you right? How did you figure this out? 380 00:24:36.730 --> 00:24:40.400 Like, help me. I'm glad you mentioned that the heart focus sign, 381 00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:42.079 though, because I had a friend that used to calmself a phone terrorist who 382 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:45.920 did that and I don't know if he had the perssiters are so, like 383 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:48.440 you said, you could use some of this for evil. By as long 384 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:52.759 as you have the best intentions, I feel like it's hard to go wrong 385 00:24:52.869 --> 00:24:56.269 and you're going to get some sort of response. But I'm curious. Are 386 00:24:56.309 --> 00:24:59.990 you always using COMPA of prospecting, or is it something that you use on 387 00:25:00.109 --> 00:25:04.990 certain accounts? You know, I was so intimately involved in defining it and 388 00:25:06.190 --> 00:25:08.140 I'm like AK study in the book. But yeah, I always used it 389 00:25:08.619 --> 00:25:14.700 and everything to me is an Omni channel signal. Okay, so everything's blended. 390 00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:18.059 I came from Craig Rosenberg and Topo Consulting. Like the age of multichannel 391 00:25:18.220 --> 00:25:22.049 prospect is not dead. They call it the total triple or the gentlent triple 392 00:25:22.569 --> 00:25:26.970 throughout. What I'm saying is this best sestr just do a fast succession of 393 00:25:26.089 --> 00:25:29.529 touched is. They never just do a single threat or a mono task. 394 00:25:29.609 --> 00:25:33.329 They always blend it. That being said, if you have parallel assisted dialing 395 00:25:33.490 --> 00:25:36.240 like a connecting cell, connect leader or Um, and you have the ability 396 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.279 to make thousands of phone calls and talk to forty prospects today, that's also 397 00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:41.680 very good. You should do both. So let's say you come and look 398 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:44.240 at my profile and I can sell to you. I will then call you, 399 00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:47.240 voice, Famili you, and email you, maybe Emili you. I'll 400 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.710 use three to four channels. You know, if your middle funnel a lower 401 00:25:49.750 --> 00:25:52.990 funnel, I'm still prospecting my funnel. I don't want you to die in 402 00:25:53.029 --> 00:25:56.509 the bind. I don't want it to go steale. So what I'm doing 403 00:25:56.589 --> 00:26:00.150 is I'm looking at a vastery of outreach where they interact with me. But 404 00:26:00.230 --> 00:26:03.589 I'm always adding in the phone as the tent pole to the strategy, because 405 00:26:03.630 --> 00:26:06.539 there's always the off chance that you made a comment in my social media. 406 00:26:06.579 --> 00:26:08.259 I can call you and be like you just comment. Yep, I did, 407 00:26:08.299 --> 00:26:11.140 let's talk about it. So you know, we can also look at 408 00:26:11.140 --> 00:26:15.740 high open rates. WHO's open the email sequence six times? They're probably referring 409 00:26:15.779 --> 00:26:18.089 it through the organization. Okay, I'm gonna, you know, get their 410 00:26:18.130 --> 00:26:21.769 linkedin profile, look them up on the Iq, get their cell phone, 411 00:26:21.849 --> 00:26:25.130 call them on their phone, call the male email. And so I use 412 00:26:25.210 --> 00:26:29.730 the phone to accelerate the Omni channel stacking and the five to twelve touches and 413 00:26:29.769 --> 00:26:32.849 all these studies. I get them done and for seventy two hours. So 414 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.960 like the speed and velocity at which I'm able to set meetings and move deals 415 00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:41.400 forward is just like it's just unheard of, because all I'm doing is maximizing 416 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:45.839 the averages and moving so much quicker through that prefunnel than anyone else really. 417 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:51.390 I mean no one's really ever in the world said do the sequencer nudging and 418 00:26:51.470 --> 00:26:53.589 calling around the sequences. I've never seen that. I've my work is the 419 00:26:53.710 --> 00:26:56.509 only one I've seen. Is because it's really brazen. It's like we are 420 00:26:56.509 --> 00:27:02.539 already like sending him fifteen emails. Why are you calling on that? Because 421 00:27:02.619 --> 00:27:07.980 if you start to see signs of life within that process, stop the presses 422 00:27:07.299 --> 00:27:11.539 column. You just open my email seven times, like, what's going on? 423 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:14.900 Are you offended? You love it? Are you referring me? Like, 424 00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:18.130 let me take you out of my sequencer because you're doing something over there. 425 00:27:18.849 --> 00:27:22.930 I was doing pixel tracking a lot with yes where there's a big, 426 00:27:23.089 --> 00:27:27.250 big corporation. They open my email seven times and eleven or is bobbing all 427 00:27:27.250 --> 00:27:32.759 day. I finally I either call or email and he said Nice Day, 428 00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:34.000 the driven response, and when I got on my phone I said Yeah, 429 00:27:34.000 --> 00:27:37.519 quite frankly, out an email tracker. I was firing a pixel and I 430 00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:40.000 saw you just kept it opening. It is like that's awesome, I love 431 00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:42.240 that innovation at your company's innovative. This is kind of thing we need here. 432 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:45.349 Let's do the deal. He'd gone to the Bund where he's the best 433 00:27:45.390 --> 00:27:51.269 part. Like this was like three four months. This is just me seeing 434 00:27:51.390 --> 00:27:53.509 the Pixel and that was a beauty. Of Groom is just sits in your 435 00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:57.619 Gmail and it just pops up like this stock tracker of everybody opening every email 436 00:27:57.619 --> 00:28:00.819 you ever said. Imagine every Gmail you ever said to prospects and every day 437 00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:04.140 seeing the opens. If I get four opens, boom, triple. And 438 00:28:04.220 --> 00:28:07.619 so I taught scrs to do this. One of the STR is, one 439 00:28:07.619 --> 00:28:11.740 of the big sales engagement companies, was on a performance review. He's using 440 00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:17.130 sales life technology. I teach them to triple over the top of sequencers within 441 00:28:17.529 --> 00:28:19.890 forty five days, because the number one SCR in the company got flow in 442 00:28:19.930 --> 00:28:25.569 Vegas like one the ladder everything using triple techniques. He's on my linked in 443 00:28:25.650 --> 00:28:29.200 profile. So the stuff works well. What is the definition of tripling? 444 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:33.759 So triple is just any blended touch. The usually phone is a tempole, 445 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:37.400 but it's like, you know, call voicemail, email in mail like. 446 00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:41.549 You call it quater quick. You're just saying how many disparate channels are you 447 00:28:41.589 --> 00:28:45.470 combining? So I'm in a like, you know, star a tweet or 448 00:28:45.630 --> 00:28:52.549 DM on the tweet, Emil email, phone call, voice message, carry 449 00:28:52.549 --> 00:28:55.859 your pigeon contact or mail. I mean it really can be anything. You 450 00:28:55.940 --> 00:28:59.779 can literally put some Doso together and for your top fifty prospects you can leave 451 00:28:59.819 --> 00:29:02.259 them all the voicemail and send them all a coffee card and look the at 452 00:29:02.299 --> 00:29:04.579 analytics. I've never tried twitter. You mentioned twitter a couple times. What 453 00:29:04.660 --> 00:29:10.130 your exparents Fan with that? So really twitter has been a hacking mechanism for 454 00:29:10.210 --> 00:29:12.849 me. I always talk about growth hacking because there are speed limits down Linkedin, 455 00:29:12.890 --> 00:29:15.609 and that's great right, because with a basic profile you can't do much, 456 00:29:15.849 --> 00:29:19.769 and so getting sales navigator gives you unlimited searching and you can reach out 457 00:29:19.769 --> 00:29:23.519 to fifty people by email. The problem is if I go on to linkedin 458 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:27.160 right now and add hundreds of people to my network who are on my last 459 00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:30.480 boom, my account shut off. So what I do is I creep brilliant 460 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:34.400 content and I use hashtags for my updates and controversial posts. And these are 461 00:29:34.519 --> 00:29:38.750 what I would call the controversy of debate within reason. We're not touching like 462 00:29:38.990 --> 00:29:42.029 third rails, like politics or like you just do. What we're talking about 463 00:29:42.190 --> 00:29:47.869 is points of deep discussion around topics that are relevant. Right. A big 464 00:29:47.869 --> 00:29:49.950 one is like phone versus social selling. Which one should it be? Right? 465 00:29:49.950 --> 00:29:55.140 So I'll post that hit the big hashtags like startups. Social selling maybe 466 00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:59.779 has fiftyzero followers. Maybe something like technology has a million followers. I'll push 467 00:29:59.900 --> 00:30:03.740 that my updates and linked into twitter and then that those hashtags will line up 468 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:07.140 with the hashtags and twitter. If it goes viral and twitter and it's not 469 00:30:07.289 --> 00:30:10.849 hits, then for my web address, I don't have my company. I 470 00:30:11.009 --> 00:30:15.730 just have the vanity url for linkedincom in, slast Michael, Justin. All 471 00:30:15.809 --> 00:30:18.490 my twitter traffic is pointed back on my linkedin page, like who is this 472 00:30:18.569 --> 00:30:22.359 guy? So I start to get followed. Then it change my button and 473 00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:26.119 Linkedin from connect to follow, and so I'm just gaining followers because I'm about 474 00:30:26.119 --> 00:30:27.960 to hit the thirtyzero cap. What I'm trying to do is drive a fly 475 00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:32.599 wheel where linkedin is the hub, twitter's the spoke and everybody likes me and 476 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:34.750 twitter comes back on Linkedin and you'll notice something really profound. I don't have 477 00:30:34.829 --> 00:30:38.150 a blog, I don't have a website, like I have like affiliated Septi 478 00:30:38.230 --> 00:30:41.069 certification. I'm a company, but like that stuff. So all dead. 479 00:30:41.109 --> 00:30:45.390 There's no interaction. You have seven hundred million bb people sitting in this network, 480 00:30:45.789 --> 00:30:49.940 all traceable comments, likes, interactions. Every time I'm something threads out. 481 00:30:51.259 --> 00:30:52.819 You know, another thousand people see it. So idea, a post 482 00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:57.420 to get fiftyzero views hit twitter, I get like thousands more people falling it 483 00:30:57.539 --> 00:31:03.859 and then suddenly proposed. I'm driving like anywhere from you know, half dozen 484 00:31:03.940 --> 00:31:07.410 do a dozen linkedin invites inbound. Then there's no throttle there. I can 485 00:31:07.450 --> 00:31:11.609 I can drive as many as I want. I'm curious what the the twet 486 00:31:11.690 --> 00:31:14.369 there? Is that your personal twitter? Is it a separate twitter for business? 487 00:31:14.650 --> 00:31:17.210 Any twitter? I just have a personal one. Add to a person. 488 00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:19.039 You can add me on there. That's meinly the niche of what I've 489 00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:22.000 sold in about these methods. I think it's really weird about me is like 490 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:25.839 I've never come out as a talking head. I didn't want to be the 491 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:29.720 case study in Combo. I didn't want to do like sales futuresm or talk 492 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.150 about this stuff, but it was just like a now is the time type 493 00:31:33.430 --> 00:31:38.069 moment. I was talking with Steve Richard about this in the first quarter of 494 00:31:38.950 --> 00:31:41.990 the New Year. Everything was on the Uppenden like. I just did a 495 00:31:42.029 --> 00:31:45.190 post about this, right, and so I was trying to figure out what 496 00:31:45.430 --> 00:31:49.900 would be the next book after predictable revenue and predictable prospecting. If the atom 497 00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:53.339 prospecting like, what is it called? And that's where I figured out that 498 00:31:55.019 --> 00:31:57.220 there's just way too much sales tooling coming way too fast. You look at 499 00:31:57.220 --> 00:32:01.730 Dave Delaney's V five of the sales maps like a LUMAS games like five hundred 500 00:32:01.809 --> 00:32:04.970 sales vendors. I don't know, it could be thousands. If you think 501 00:32:05.009 --> 00:32:08.490 of sales force and dream force. What are we going to do to master 502 00:32:08.650 --> 00:32:13.250 that tech if within a year it's all new tech? So it said released 503 00:32:13.289 --> 00:32:15.119 TQ in in two thousand and twenty five, someone reads it, or in 504 00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:17.319 two thousand and thirty some reason. Well, if it's just about up, 505 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:21.960 you know figure out sales off and outreach. Will those could be acquired by 506 00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:25.200 then. That tech could be totally different. Right. The Meta skill that 507 00:32:25.400 --> 00:32:30.150 holds for the last twenty years and since the Internet revolution is you want to 508 00:32:30.309 --> 00:32:36.509 enable yourself to understand technology and use it better. And so technology quotient is 509 00:32:36.549 --> 00:32:40.029 your ability to fuse like human and machine, with the U on the UX 510 00:32:40.150 --> 00:32:45.059 and leverage of the technology for efficiency and like superhuman impact. So you can 511 00:32:45.099 --> 00:32:49.500 see the outreach hats. Now take your sales team of ten and make the 512 00:32:49.579 --> 00:32:52.339 most powerful as a hundred. This, like Strae, is to find a 513 00:32:52.339 --> 00:32:57.619 pretty predictable revenue, like the Henry Ford supply chain. That was the two 514 00:32:57.619 --> 00:33:00.769 thousand and eleven moment in two thousand and twenty. One TIQ, or technology 515 00:33:00.809 --> 00:33:05.130 quotation, is the Jarvis iron man suit. It's uh, we're in SR 516 00:33:05.250 --> 00:33:07.930 A and field, like we've got tech. What do we do with it? 517 00:33:07.490 --> 00:33:10.049 And there's two types of companies. Is Hyperlyn, like no budget, 518 00:33:10.410 --> 00:33:14.799 and so you got to be mcguimer. You've got to get make do with 519 00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:19.240 like an umbrella in a hairpin and you know, save the day. Or 520 00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:22.039 you're in a fast higher of company, even a limited budget. It's like 521 00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:23.599 we want to crush this. What do we do? And how do we 522 00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:28.269 get all fit together and talk together and how do we like the the REV 523 00:33:28.349 --> 00:33:31.589 OPS or ops. You know, the OPS world is is in a revolution 524 00:33:31.630 --> 00:33:35.950 right now because their systems are really hard to integrate and get all those stacks 525 00:33:35.990 --> 00:33:37.589 to work, and so I'm also really like, I mean the VP of 526 00:33:37.630 --> 00:33:42.299 ops for outbown works, being very involved in sales operations, for getting the 527 00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:45.819 analyps and reportings out of the products that I've used and the teams I've run. 528 00:33:45.500 --> 00:33:49.859 That is an emerging industry, a niche within a niche or sales. 529 00:33:49.900 --> 00:33:53.019 It's very important. You seem so into this. Stress like you seem hype 530 00:33:53.059 --> 00:33:57.529 is hell. Sometimes you have a child that just found its new favorite toy. 531 00:33:57.690 --> 00:34:00.369 Why are you so excited about this and why is it the thing that 532 00:34:00.490 --> 00:34:04.730 he's like dedicated your life too? Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean 533 00:34:04.970 --> 00:34:09.880 I think it was people in very senior positions, from Sandhill road to CEO, 534 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:14.519 as I've worked with. I have worked for too many companies. I've 535 00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:19.599 had like twenty rolls in the last twenty years, and there's a expression of 536 00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:22.199 like Jack of all trades and master of none. But it's sort of like 537 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.070 understanding who you are as in the animal in the jungle, like I'm a 538 00:34:25.070 --> 00:34:30.349 Cheetah, like I sprint really hard. What it is is I am obsessed 539 00:34:30.389 --> 00:34:34.389 with cracking top funnel, with figuring out how to take an unknown product or 540 00:34:34.469 --> 00:34:37.980 service that has solves pain and has MVP as like it's a real product and 541 00:34:38.059 --> 00:34:44.500 service, and then cracking the problem. Opening is the new closing. So 542 00:34:44.579 --> 00:34:46.780 it's just like, I think, this gift that's sitting there that I understand 543 00:34:46.860 --> 00:34:51.099 innately in my DNA. There's like I have an obsession to hunt, but 544 00:34:51.500 --> 00:34:54.570 then figure out how to automate the hunting. Yeah, I mean I think 545 00:34:54.570 --> 00:34:57.610 it's just is a great strength. I can help a lot of people. 546 00:34:57.650 --> 00:35:00.769 I get a lot of value out of seeing people win. They read my 547 00:35:00.849 --> 00:35:04.369 book, they come to me and they're more successful their jobs. I give 548 00:35:04.449 --> 00:35:07.760 them back time in their day and I help them. That's probably the most 549 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:09.719 fulfilling part of doing it and why I like it, because I came out 550 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:15.159 of nonprofits and mission driven orgs. It's just kind of cool to like give 551 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.719 back in some way and see and see the results happen. So yeah, 552 00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:21.909 I'm really curious, like what you'll get out of Combo prospering Artq is like 553 00:35:21.989 --> 00:35:24.670 immediately after you read it or after months of trying, and like how does 554 00:35:24.710 --> 00:35:28.469 it impact you? You know, yeah, I mean I think it's a 555 00:35:28.510 --> 00:35:32.110 big deal because there's this whole idea that you don't want to oversaturate somebody and 556 00:35:32.150 --> 00:35:36.139 you don't want to bother them. I know whenever I'm doing outreach, I'm 557 00:35:36.179 --> 00:35:38.860 like how many touches am I doing, and oftentimes they're very well touch over 558 00:35:38.900 --> 00:35:42.860 a long period of time, but I know that when I've gotten that kind 559 00:35:42.860 --> 00:35:45.579 of outrage, I'm just deleting them for like months, like you said, 560 00:35:45.820 --> 00:35:49.219 not even doing anything about I don't even how to subscribe. I don't care 561 00:35:49.260 --> 00:35:52.849 enough to even go and subscribe or just keep archiving it. So just swarming, 562 00:35:52.969 --> 00:35:55.530 like you said. Yeah, so I'm not trying to call you out, 563 00:35:55.610 --> 00:36:00.369 but I'm saying that the initial platforms were hub, spot and Marquetto and 564 00:36:00.489 --> 00:36:02.650 part odd, which is part of sales force, was like this is basically 565 00:36:02.650 --> 00:36:07.280 we have opten. You've opted into our mailing list, you've submitted our form 566 00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:09.880 and you've opted in receiving communication and now you're on a drip marketing list. 567 00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:14.440 The problem is, once the automation came out for be to be outbound, 568 00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:16.400 as people said, let me be careful. They won three, seven, 569 00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:21.269 fifteen nineteen. That's more like a newsletter. Oh, you just stand me 570 00:36:21.349 --> 00:36:22.789 on a newsletter. What I try to say is it's not a newsletter. 571 00:36:22.869 --> 00:36:27.670 I'm a person. It's going to contact you every few days myself manually. 572 00:36:27.710 --> 00:36:30.789 Now I'm going to automate the manual outreach. have an opt out. Can't 573 00:36:30.789 --> 00:36:35.219 span pipliant GP are by to sign privacy. I got this from ethical source. 574 00:36:35.300 --> 00:36:37.059 Threat I don't use personal emails. I don't. There's a whole creed 575 00:36:37.139 --> 00:36:40.059 of how to do it legally and ethically. We've got that. But you 576 00:36:40.179 --> 00:36:45.219 want to indicate the process like that, you're prospecting them. That's the biggest 577 00:36:45.219 --> 00:36:47.170 thing, I think, is being transparent and not like sneaky, like, 578 00:36:47.289 --> 00:36:51.489 Oh, I'm kind of like in your inbox and you don't know. It's 579 00:36:51.570 --> 00:36:55.010 like just be assertive and honest. They like I am this is my job, 580 00:36:55.050 --> 00:36:58.570 I'm an engine of the economy, I'm a seller and I'm trying to 581 00:36:58.650 --> 00:37:01.360 sell to you. As in they're kind of like okay, cool, I 582 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:05.360 get that, not interested. You know, maybe a few months. It's 583 00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:08.079 so funny if you just give them it's like it's okay to get an answer. 584 00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:12.320 That's the weirdest things. So many people that have the call avoidance and 585 00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:15.750 they don't want to be rejected. For me, I just love to know. 586 00:37:15.510 --> 00:37:19.550 You know, and it's so yeah, so my advice to you would 587 00:37:19.550 --> 00:37:23.269 be eight test try and more assertive flow, more frequency. You're going to 588 00:37:23.389 --> 00:37:25.789 rejected a lot more, but you're going to get a lot more yeses and 589 00:37:25.829 --> 00:37:30.219 referrals because people are going to see that you're there and they're going to respond. 590 00:37:30.780 --> 00:37:34.420 That's that's interesting. And it always multi channel right, because right now 591 00:37:34.539 --> 00:37:37.099 what I've been doing is trying, one at a time just to get a 592 00:37:37.179 --> 00:37:39.780 feel for what that's like, and I've been doing the just personalized emails and 593 00:37:39.820 --> 00:37:44.889 it's been kind of amazing the response I've gotten so far. But then when 594 00:37:44.889 --> 00:37:49.289 I think about having to make phone calls and voice mails and and Linkedin on 595 00:37:49.369 --> 00:37:51.530 top of that in my half, I'm probably going to run at energy and 596 00:37:51.530 --> 00:37:53.650 I think that's why people don't personalise as much. So, when you're doing 597 00:37:53.730 --> 00:37:58.489 multi channel and you're saying you're automating so much of it, how do you 598 00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:01.159 set up your cadence is in such a way that it can still feel personalized, 599 00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:04.880 because I feel like when I try to do that, it's like hey, 600 00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:07.639 you're this role at this company and you do this and it feels so 601 00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:12.119 obvious. So how are you setting that was up to feel human. I 602 00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:15.429 think if you can add the visual elements and like use a business intelligence system 603 00:38:15.510 --> 00:38:20.110 or intend data or technographics like I see that you use, you know, 604 00:38:20.230 --> 00:38:22.590 sales force and Marquetto those are obvious ones, but you could find interesting piece 605 00:38:22.670 --> 00:38:27.980 of their technology stack if you can look at the reviews on gt crowd or 606 00:38:28.019 --> 00:38:30.780 various review sites or you have some type of insight that's data driven that you 607 00:38:30.820 --> 00:38:36.219 can then screenshot, snapshot, you can look at their website for a pain 608 00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:37.900 or problem it's broken, or you can look at something about them and then 609 00:38:37.980 --> 00:38:42.570 screenshot it include in the email to show you researched it. You're going to 610 00:38:42.610 --> 00:38:45.010 be ahead of the next styles and people. There's like like level one personal 611 00:38:45.050 --> 00:38:49.730 Saton high first name, you know, connection in comments kind of been overdone. 612 00:38:50.010 --> 00:38:52.289 Maybe where they work, employe growth. There's always sort of like vanilla 613 00:38:52.929 --> 00:38:57.039 base personalization. Take the time, I would say, to go to tier 614 00:38:57.159 --> 00:39:01.519 two, a little bit closer personalization is like my recommendation for you. secondarily, 615 00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:05.760 rather than getting daunted by like I got to add phone and linked in 616 00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:08.039 touches on every one of these, I would least to a custom connection requests 617 00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:12.190 on Linkedin to go with your email to stay digital. And then if you're 618 00:39:12.190 --> 00:39:15.550 getting high opens or they are expressing interest and they're now in your funneling, 619 00:39:15.590 --> 00:39:20.469 your pipeline, that's where I would then add in phone, text, whatsapp, 620 00:39:20.550 --> 00:39:23.030 and so you could run a fully digital, full top funnel, and 621 00:39:23.070 --> 00:39:25.980 then you're like middle and lower funnel. is where you start getting into the 622 00:39:27.019 --> 00:39:30.300 COMBOS. That's the beauty of this stuff and in my book I even talked 623 00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:35.059 about sequencing to prevent churn and like CSM and clients, is using automation and 624 00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:39.610 platforms like turn zero or groove to kind of eat in oudomy the touch points 625 00:39:39.650 --> 00:39:44.650 around and renewal, which is like a a super big problem. So my 626 00:39:44.969 --> 00:39:51.449 methods within Combo and Tq and with Tony, it really designed with twenty principles. 627 00:39:51.769 --> 00:39:54.119 If you if you do it and you block out the time of only 628 00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:59.280 doing calling for like one hour a day or like for a full quote carrying 629 00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:01.719 St r two hours a day, you can knock it out. So actually, 630 00:40:01.719 --> 00:40:06.840 some of the books about Mona tasking and yeah, but if I'm in 631 00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:08.550 your position and I'm like super busy I think that's what I would do. 632 00:40:08.630 --> 00:40:13.550 I just like pick when to blend no harden pass rule, like just to 633 00:40:13.670 --> 00:40:16.150 find like the not the natural order of Paradise. Like. Well, I'm 634 00:40:16.150 --> 00:40:21.190 getting success with personalized emails. How can I just take some personalization up one 635 00:40:21.230 --> 00:40:23.380 level? Maybe I want to use a explainer gift or snapshot something up their 636 00:40:23.420 --> 00:40:29.579 site. Right. You can download a bunch of images to a CSB and 637 00:40:29.619 --> 00:40:34.300 then import them into outreach her, contact her company and you can customer. 638 00:40:34.500 --> 00:40:37.329 There's there's ways to do this by Callin and Josh Braun did a video on 639 00:40:37.409 --> 00:40:39.210 that which is worth checking out. That's cool. I do need to check 640 00:40:39.250 --> 00:40:45.329 that out, but I think we're coming up on time. So what's let's 641 00:40:45.369 --> 00:40:49.329 wrap this up. Is there anything you want to plug before we go to 642 00:40:49.449 --> 00:40:52.800 just go. Please read my book and use good all I ask is that 643 00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:57.719 if you like it, you buy it as an Ebook Raudable in summer and 644 00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:00.199 pick it up hard copy next year. I am releasing the Masters and e 645 00:41:00.280 --> 00:41:02.480 book now. It's a hidden document. I'll share it with you if you 646 00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:06.110 add me on twitter, linkedin. You paying me D me, I will 647 00:41:06.190 --> 00:41:08.750 share it with you. You and I would love you to push me. 648 00:41:08.829 --> 00:41:13.869 Further share ideas and things in there that you've never seen it. Ideation is 649 00:41:13.949 --> 00:41:16.550 more important than the way it's written. It's just this is going to spark 650 00:41:16.630 --> 00:41:20.019 you to try so many new things, just like I've encouraged you on this 651 00:41:20.099 --> 00:41:23.059 called Patrick. So, yeah, really appreciate your time. Yeah, I'm 652 00:41:23.059 --> 00:41:27.300 actually really hype to go back and finish the book now. It's given me 653 00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:30.820 that extra of s Ma. I guess sit down to rate again after working 654 00:41:30.900 --> 00:41:34.409 all day, but I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it, but 655 00:41:34.530 --> 00:41:37.409 thank you, guys. This is your cohost, Patrick down. Thanks for 656 00:41:37.409 --> 00:41:40.690 listening to be TOB Stalles show. Please connect with me on Linkedin, posting 657 00:41:40.809 --> 00:41:45.329 more often and maybe I'll be dming you soon, trying out some justice tactics. 658 00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:51.800 Yeah, guys, have a good one. They see if a new 659 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:55.639 math. Cheers. I'm your host, Patrick downs. Thanks again for joining 660 00:41:55.679 --> 00:42:04.230 us on the sale series of Bob Growth. I hate it when podcasts incessantly 661 00:42:04.269 --> 00:42:07.590 ask their listeners for reviews, but I get why they do it, because 662 00:42:07.630 --> 00:42:10.829 reviews are enormously helpful when you're trying to grow a podcast audience. So here's 663 00:42:10.869 --> 00:42:14.429 what we decided to do. If you leave a review, for be to 664 00:42:14.469 --> 00:42:17.780 be growth in apple podcasts and email me a screenshot of the review to James 665 00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:22.659 at Sweet Fish Mediacom. I'll send you a signed copy of my new book. 666 00:42:22.820 --> 00:42:25.340 Content based networking, how to instantly connect with anyone you want to know. 667 00:42:25.820 --> 00:42:29.699 We get a review, you get a free book. We both win. 668 -->