Transcript
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Conversations from the front lines and marketing. This is be tob growth. Today,
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on B Tob Growth, I am
so happy and thrilled to be joined
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by drew niser. Drew, thank
you for stopping by B Tob Growth.
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Sir, Oh my God, thank
you for having me. It's amazing to
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be here and I am so grateful
for any podcaster for what they do,
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because it is a lot of work. It's some work, but you have
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been putting in work. Let me
list off your resume of sorts, drew.
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So you are the founder of renegade
and CMO huddles recently named on Linkedin's
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two thousand and twenty two list of
top voices in marketing and advertising. That's
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a pretty cool list to be on. So congratulations there. Thank you.
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It is and you know that.
And I think about seven dollars will get
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you a cup of coffee at starbucks. But no, it's really an honor.
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What the coolest part is there's some
amazing people on that list that I
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have a lot of respect for.
So to be on the list, it
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all was like, Oh wow,
that's good company. Yeah, yeah,
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well, one other thing I wanted
to mention right here on the top.
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You recently came out with your new
book, I got it right here,
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sit next to me, renegade marketing. We're going to touch on some of
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the twelve steps of building an unbeatable
be tob brand in today's conversation, in
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both directly and indirectly. But a
book is no small feet. I know
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you've done this, what a few
times now. This is book number two.
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Book Number One was the CMOS periodic
table, a renegade guide to marketing,
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and that was the book. That
was a lot easier to write,
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because I had done a hundred interviews
and someone said, drew, there's got
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to be a book there, and
so I sort of this periodic table came
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as a way of doing it.
This book was a lot more work.
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It was literally four years in the
making. Who Well, we're about to
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get four years of wisdom in this
one episode of BB grows. So everybody
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buckle up. But here's what we
want to talk about today because, for
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a really a litany of reasons,
something that I see happen in B Tob
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c suites is there is a word
that almost I don't know if I would
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say it gets glossed over or it
doesn't get talked about like it should,
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and the word is brand. The
word is brand. And you had a
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conversation with a couple CMOS who had
recently gone through an IPO process and when
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it came to marketing, they both
had experienced some similar hurdles. Right.
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Would you kind of outline what those
hurdles were for us through? Well,
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the interesting thing about an IPO is
that it's the only moment in time and
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marketing where it's a you either win, as in you get the IPO,
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or you lose, and so that
zero some game doesn't exist. I mean
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most of the time we might hit
our sales targetter just miss it or exceed
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it, but here's the case,
you either hit it or you don't,
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and so the result is that everybody
in the leadership team has to put together
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a really clear and coherent plan to
get there right, because there's no second
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chance. You either make it or
you don't. And part of the interesting
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thing that comes up is what role
will marketing play? Let's assume the IPO
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goes through. What role will marketing
play in the growth of the the future
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of the company? And it's almost
always we're underspending on marketing or we're not
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spending as much as we could if
we had more here's the multiplier effect that
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we would get, which is,
you know, we're doing a fundraiser to
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raise money for something, right.
But what's so interesting is that everyone who's
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gone through an IPO as a marketer
has really tight metrics, like underably tight
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metrics. And, by the way, the CFO agreed with them, the
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CEO agreed with them, the salesperson
agreed, and so you have a unified
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moment, which is often rare,
where you talk about here's the size of
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the opportunity, here's where our brand
is in relationship to that opportunity. But
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if we had more money and we
did these three things, we could grow
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and it's just so interesting and it's
one of those things where I kind of
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wish every CMO had to go through
it, because if every CMO did,
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first of all two things would happen. One, the organization would be aligned
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and to CMO would have better metrics
that were both on the brand and demand
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front. So longwinded answer, I
think, to your question. I like
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the long winded answer at tell me, in your experience and in these conversations,
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you mentioned alignment and then you also
mentioned these metrics. What are some
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of those key metrics that this process
that, once they've gone through it,
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they're really paying attention to? So
it's a combination of things and it really
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somewhat depends on where the brand is. But if you look at marketing and
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you say, all right, this
is company x and there are let's say
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be to be and they're targeting enterprises, there might only be any given year
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a hundred, two, hundred,
five, hundred, a thousand opportunities,
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for example. So first job is
to figure out how many opportunities are out
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there, how many people are actually
looking to buy the product or service that
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you sell, and then how many
opportunities did you get within that buying group?
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And so you had there were a
hundred opportunities, but you only got
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ten R of P's. You have
a problem with awareness, right. It's
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a so you have a really simple
but if you are an eighty percent of
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them but you're only winning ten percent
of and then you have a closing problem
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and you have sort of this in
between. So the first the other thing
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you have to do is in your
metrics is figure out do we have a
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market place and are there people actually
shopping for our product and, if so,
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how many of them are considering us? And and this is where you
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know it sounds so basic, but
you'd be amazed how few do this in
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and the breakdown of this is if
you're not focused. In my whole book
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is about focused. If you are
not focused, you will fail, because
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marketing is it's too time consuming.
Forget about any investment you make in terms
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of media. It takes so much
time to get organizational alignment and get sales
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and everybody ready to sell against the
marketing idea that you're putting in a market
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that if you don't have a clear
target and a clear focus and understand Oh,
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we have an awareness problem or we
have a consideration problem or we have
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that kind of problem, and chances
are you're solving the wrong problem and then
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you're just sort of doing what we
call the peanut better effect. You're just
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doing everything to see what sticks.
HMM, yeah, that, man.
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How often are we guilty of that? Okay, so I got to tell
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you my background in was not in
the be tob space. So I came
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into marketing. I loved like the
design, the brand side and the creative
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right and then the last few years
being more steeped in this be tob space,
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I've been, I would say,
a little bit underwhelmed with how brand
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is discussed. I think it's a
word that can easily be maybe avoided,
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and you see this too. How
have you come to that realization? What
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are some of the the ways that
you see this playing itself out right now?
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So about every six to eight months
in Cmo huddles, which are these
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moderated round table conversations that you know. You you mentioned I founded this company.
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Anyway, when we start talking about
brand, my first question is how
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many of you can actually use the
word brand in the sea suite or with
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your board of Advisors? And now
this is particularly true in the startup world,
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but it's pretty pervasive in B tob
is. Less than half can actually
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use the word. And so they
have these splsms. Oh we're doing revenue
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marketing, Oh this is air cover
marketing. Oh this is some other thing,
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but this is brand, a activation, it's active brand. I mean
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you know the makeup combinations of things. Sure, anything to avoid the word
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brand, because brand is fluffy,
brand is color and logo. At least
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that's what people who don't know what
brand can really be, which is the
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core of a company. You know, you brand starts with values and purpose
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and and where you want to go, and then it gets translated into design.
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So for those who don't understand that
and see it as Fluffy, oh,
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I don't want to spend any money
on that. I only want to
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spend money on demand generation. Like
there could be demand generation with brand.
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I mean so, and a very
simple example. If you are, let's
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say you're looking for a house painter, just for the and you go to
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the house painters website and you see
pictures, very poor, loppy pictures of
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houses, you're going to say,
Oh God, I don't know if I
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could trust that. You know that. Okay, later, right, it's
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just it's not there's a disconnect.
So brand started, starts to infiltrate every
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aspect of a business and if it
isn't well thought through and it isn't well
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designed, you can have a problem. But there's so much more to it
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than design. HMM. See.
Okay, because it can be perceived as
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fluffy, yes, and because brand
is a word that comes with some baggage,
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yes, probably needs some sort of
raining in in a sense, and
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I wonder if you would just maybe
walk us through what we're talking about specifically
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in this episode. Drew, when
when we say the word brand, like
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what, what all does that mean
to you? So let's start with some
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very basic things. And one of
the things, the reason that I can
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call the book renegade marketing, is
that I really try to flip things upside
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down. Most be tob marketers start
with prospect then they go to customer,
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then they go to employ and I
said that's wrong. Most sort of think
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about channels and and verticals and I
said now we got to start. We
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got to start with strategy and then
we got to start with employees, customers
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and prospects. So when you have
a well defined brand, every single employee
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in the company can, in one
sentence, summarize what it is that you
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as an organization, why they exist, everything I want them to do that.
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It is the absence of brand that
has employees scratching their head saying,
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I don't know, I do we
exist? Why? Why are we here?
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I don't know, it's a job, it pays me money, I
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come, I work, I leave. Brand is this sticky thing that allows
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employees to be emotionally connected. It's
this sticky thing that gets customers to want
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to show up and act like a
community where you you know you think of
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I think of brands like Marquetto or
tableau, where they're the employee that customers
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who go to Marquetto nation they're identifying
as like Marquettoites, as are they feel
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or Tabloisian's right, they're part of
this community. That's when you know you've
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really brand exists as an idea with
your employees and your customers with tremendous clarity.
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There's there's a unquestionable amount of I
know what this brand, this company,
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stands for. HMM, okay.
So in my head I go well,
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that sounds great. Why doesn't every
company just want that? You know,
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and there's a desire for it,
but I see a gap in the
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time waited to address it. So
Oh, we'll put off marketing until this
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part of the processes complete. Until
why is it put off in your mind?
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What are some of those common denominator
factors that push it down the road
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and isn't something that we address now? Well, in the old days you
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couldn't really probably succeed without brand,
but today you can create a minimally viable
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product, as they call it an
MVP, you can put it out on
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the web, you can charge nothing
for it, you can get a lot
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of people to use the product or
service right without a tremendous amount of energy
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and without really having thought about that
much what the company stands for. And
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it only gets a point where you
can't get anymore you can get any more
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people to download it right, or
you can't where the people oh now,
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or we need to get him to
pay money for it, or and suddenly
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you can't just rely on Google search
anymore, or you know keywords to drive
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your business and then suddenly sort of
the folks in the organization realize Oh,
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or another place that happens is,
and this is so interesting at this happened
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recently in one of our huddles.
One of the CMO mention that they had
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won two businesses recently. This is
an enterprise company based on a culture match,
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based on the the the buying committee
looked at the culture of the company
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and said these are people I can
do business with. The are people I
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want to do business with. Their
values share and align with our values.
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And so you know, if you
look at values and culture and then go
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straight from there to brand and you
have a company that is winning deals not
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on price but because of, in
this case, the culture. You have
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a brand, you know, and
so the reason people don't do it is
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because they can get away with it
to a certain extent without it. HMM.
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I think of even this idea of
founder led sales as early on it's
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also founder led marketing without you realizing
it, because the founder holds so much
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of the vision and the mission and
all that. And so in those startup
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days, without knowing it, because
you don't have a ton of founders who
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have a background in marketing, but
they're doing some of that motion, and
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then there's like a handoff that needs
to happen. In a lot of times
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it gets handed off the sales and
then, oh well, once we prove
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out sales, then we'll add marketing. But you started missing a piece because
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that vision that was held in that
marketing, that was in that founder,
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doesn't go to anybody for a while. Yeah, you're right. I mean
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in many startups the founder and the
brand are inseparable. HMM. And that's
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good until the founder gets in trouble, as sometimes happens, or goes off
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the deep end, as sometimes happens. But I'm thinking about where this really
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you would think enterprise sale, where
you're selling to a buying committee of fifteen
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people, and you would say,
well, this has got to be about
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price and functionality. And it will
blow you away to realize how many times
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deals are lost in this eighteen month
sales cycle because there were inconsistencies in the
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story that we're told the the the
CFO was told one story, the security
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guy was told another story, the
operations person was told another story. When
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they all came together they were describing
a different animal. MMM and and they
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couldn't agree on why it was that
they wanted this product or service. And
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again, what that discipline of brand
forces. And you know, what I
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try to do in my book is
radically simplify all of this and say let's
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get our story, we call it
a purpose driven the story statement, down
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to eight words or less. There
you go, get it down to eight
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words or less. I give you
a quick example. And then the book
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I tell the story of case paper. Case papers a seventy seven year old
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family run paper company. I mean
this is literally they sell paper, they
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chop it up, they send it
to printers. It's is generic as it
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gets. The office is based on
it exactly, almost and then they have
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a lot of fun with it.
But what distinguished this brand is their sense
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of service, be above and beyond. And so the brand, the purposer
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of the story statement, is on
the case, case paper, on the
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case. Now there's another element to
it. They're funny company. They've always
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it's been funny. They're humorous,
say they build relationships. They're a joker
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arc type brand. So on the
actually sits on top of their logo.
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It's a heretical move. We broke
the you know, the fourth wall.
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We put on the overcase and everything
they do has a sense of humor.
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So now every single employee. You
say, so what's our company stand where
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we're on the case? Well,
what's that mean? While we're reliable,
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resourceful and responsive. And so those
are the three things, those are the
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guiding lights. Game over. Everybody
knows what we're doing. Yep, and
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and that's how simple brand can be. Now there are colors involved in this
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and there's, you know, there's
the logo treatment and there's all sorts of
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other things, but at the core
of this is a big promise to the
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market place. I love what you
just did because you tied in, both
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external and internal, the power of
alignment around brand right, because alignment is
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something, and this goes back to
the beginning of our conversation with the whole
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IPO process. Alignment can be forced
because it has to happen, or it
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can be something that you choose.
Know, we're going to get our stuff
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together and we're going to do this
thing and and misalignment is the enemy,
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right, we all know that in
business. But again, just a simple
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phrase that we all have memorized or
just that we can give away. Then
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people aren't confused, right, when
you got to go to the whole buying
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committee, know, we know exactly
what we do and we're communicating this clearly
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to you, no matter who you
talked to in the organization. Yeah,
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and I'm going to step back further
and so yes to everything that you said.
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The thing about employees as this untapped
army of advocates is is so important.
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So if you're thinking about a rebranding
process, one of the things in
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the book, and by the way, any of your listeners, if they
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want this chapter, I'm happy to
send it to him. They can just
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hit me up on Linkedin. But
is do an employee survey at the very
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beginning of whatever brand proper. You
should do one anyway, on an annual
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basis. We list in the book
all the questions that you can start with
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as as a way of doing it. It's so easy. But here's the
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thing. You're asking your employees for
your opinion, for their opinion. They
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feel part of the process and when
you come back to them with where you're
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changing things, so say, oh, that's cool, I knew it was
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coming, I was part of the
process. Oh, and I can even
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see how some of the things that
I said are showing up here. So
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this is this goal mine called employees. That marketer sort of forget all that's
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hrs to domain. That's our internal
army. And then we once we do
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that, we go to customers and
we say, Hey, we're thinking about
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this as our next brand idea.
How does that align with the way you
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think about us? And hopefully you've
already done your customer interviews before you rebrand
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anyway. But you get customer alignment, because the worst thing they can have
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is so first thing is you have
a new brand. This happens and I
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no cases where it happens. You
don't tell the employees about it. You
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go to market with employs as that's
us. That's not us, that's not
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the company I work for. So
it fails there. So you call the
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eight hundred number and say, Hey, I want to talk to you about
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being on the case. They go
what, I'm not on the case.
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Yeah, you got the wrong company. Then you you go to customers with
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this thing and they that's not who
I'm working with, they're not on that
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case. So have this disconnect.
You don't even have a chance of getting
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any new customers if your employees aren't
on board and your customers on them aren't
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on board. I mean, and
it's that's a simple idea, but I
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got to tell you, in the
research that we did up to the book
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lesson sixty know, something like eighty
percent of the bbcmos that we surveyed allowed
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less than a month for internal employee
communications. And I'm going to harp on
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this for a second to take you
one step further. In an ideal world,
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a rebrand is not a new logo, it is not six words,
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it is an organizational commitment to change
behavior in a remarkable way. So if
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you're Etna and you say to the
outside world you don't join us, we
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join you. You spend six months
retraining employees on how to do that.
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HMM. So you're making a new
promise to the market place and you've trained
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employees on how to deliver it.
So, for example, if you call
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the call center at Etna and you
say, Hey, I need to prove
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all on a knee surgery, they'll
say okay, great, I got it.
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But also most people who do knee
surgeries want to get PT afterwards.
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Now imagine what that did. Suddenly
we went from I wanted approval to wow,
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you added value. Well, that
was part of the retraining that goes
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with this thing. So you know, too much of the reason people can't
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use the word brand is it sounds
superficial, and often is. When we
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talk about renegade marketing, we're talking
about something that is incredibly substantive. It
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is a set of actions that ideally
are a value to your employees, customers
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and prospects. It's so cool when
it works. It is. It is
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very cool when it works and it's
complicated because it's not. It's not as
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easy as throwing new colors on it
and just doing the quote unquote fluffy stuff.
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So I wonder even there, with
that that many rant that drew just
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gave us, what, when you
think of retraining around brand, what are
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some of those crucial things you can
do to kind of force that alignment internally
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00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:08.359
so you're all sort of back on
the same page, because some people have
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that quick sentence or whatever. But
like, obviously alignment drips and shifts and
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all sorts of things and you have
to bring it back. So one of
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the things that I talked about a
little bit in the book of this idea
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called a plan on the page.
And so we have our purpose, drive
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the story, statement of on the
case, right, and in fact you
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00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:30.640
can you can download on on unning
Acom when you find the book. You
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00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:34.680
can find a plan on a page
for actually this one. And so let's
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00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:40.960
say we want to get employees involved
with on the case. So you do
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00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:42.880
an on the case, a words
program, and you let everyone employe.
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We're going to have the employee the
month is going to be based on their
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00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:49.640
ability to either be a reliable,
responsive or resourceful or, ideally all three.
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Great. We're going to include some
aspect of on the case in employee
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valuations. Right. So boom,
all of a sudden I got to pay
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00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:03.480
attention. We're going to do a
fun little video to introduce the idea.
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00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:06.640
Super Goofy, because we're a count
you know. It is a joker brand,
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00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:11.079
but a fun idea of going to
the extreme to deliver customer service.
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00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:17.000
So very funny little video that you
did and a bunch of other things that
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00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:21.880
get employees excited about it. We
only need sex. Believe it or not,
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00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.640
now it took place probably a year
and a half to complete all of
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00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:32.519
the employee and all of the customer
activities, HMM, before they actually took
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00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:36.799
it to the marketplace. Yeah,
that work, that extra one. I
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00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:40.480
mean it's time right like that.
I think that's one of the main reasons
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00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:45.039
why we have brand all wrong is
because we think it's a quick sort of
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00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.440
fix, quick problem solved, when
in reality there's a lot of time involved
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00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:53.599
actually get everything that's involved around brand
properly sort of set up right. And
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00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:57.240
then so often, will you know, is when I put my agency had
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00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:00.240
on, we'll get a call and
say hey, we need a new brand
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00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:03.319
and we have three weeks and will
say, you know, buy the book,
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00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:08.400
knock yourself out, because you really
can't do a good job in three
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weeks because you can't do the employee
assessment, you can't do the customer assessment,
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00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:15.640
you can't do the market place,
you can't do the homework that you
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00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:18.759
need. And so the result is
you're going to have you're going to get
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00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:22.440
the executive committee together and you're going
to ask so, what do you think?
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And what do you think, and
what do you think? And you're
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going to get an opinions and somebody's
going to say, I really believe in
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this. And so that's the brand. And and the thing is that in
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00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:38.599
that moment in time you have defeated
the idea, because it's like a house
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00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:42.200
and and he's a really strong foundation, because otherwise it just, you know,
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you huff and you put your blow
that sucker down really easily. So
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it is worth taking the time,
if you're going to make a change,
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to get it right, because there's
always time to fix it. But if
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you really shortcut this process, it's
rare that you will get something amazing.
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When I think practically about what we're
inviting listeners into and this episode and I'm
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00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:10.480
thinking about all that's involved in brand, I mean there's a million sort of
336
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:12.759
a house we could give people.
Hey, try this or do this,
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00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:17.000
but a lot of what it comes
down to for for me, drew,
338
00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:21.519
is like I want people to have
mindset shifts that they can carry forward with
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00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:23.160
them. Right and no, that's
the desire of yours as well. And
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00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:26.720
obviously when you write a book and
you have that type of medium, you're
341
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:32.200
trying to do that in a longer
for worm way. But what would you
342
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:36.839
tell us as we start to wrap
up this episode around maybe some mindset shifts
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00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:44.160
or some house to practically approach brand
and maybe a new way? So this
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00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:48.599
is the so at the end of
chapter one, which is called clear away
345
00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:52.240
the clutter, I have something that
I call the clear away the clutter pledge,
346
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:56.160
and if you don't mind, I'm
just going to read it, because
347
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everything start here. So, and
this is for the leader of the Marketing
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Organization, but we could do this
for our personal brands. To I will
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focus relentlessly on a handful of strategic
projects or priorities. Right. I will
350
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:15.960
have the courage to say no,
two distractions, no more. Hey,
351
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:22.759
look, squirrel, we're not going
to do that. I will delegate everything
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00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:29.880
except the things only I can do
that move the organization forward. I won't
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00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:33.319
add am I to do list without
taking something off of it. Thank you,
354
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:34.880
Marie. CONDO. Bring in a
new piece of clothes. We got
355
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:40.319
to take one out, and I
will block thirty minutes a day for thinking
356
00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:45.759
big. And the reason this chapter
is so important is, again, it
357
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:49.240
gets you in the mindset. We're
not going to try to boil the ocean,
358
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:53.079
we're not going to try to solve
every single problem, but we have
359
00:26:53.160 --> 00:27:00.960
a path to success. By tightening
up everything right, we're gonna get a
360
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:06.000
little bit of focus and that focus
is going to be incredibly liberating. Love
361
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:08.839
a true has been a fascinating conversation. I mean you give away twelve steps
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00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:14.519
in the book to building and Unbeatable
Bee to be brand we there's no way
363
00:27:14.599 --> 00:27:18.079
we could have covered all twelve,
but you did a great job of bringing
364
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.200
in some of what we're considering when
we think of be to be branding and
365
00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:25.519
all that goes into it. Any
final thoughts as we start to wrap up
366
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:29.680
here? You know I so in
the book there's one. There's a framework
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00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:33.000
called Cat's courageous, artful, thoughtful
and scientific, and I like this framework
368
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:37.400
for a number of reasons, because
it is a progression and you got to
369
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:42.440
start with a courageous strategy, because
if you don't dare to be distinct,
370
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:48.519
you're going to just be the same
as everybody else. Artful ideation is just
371
00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:52.240
recognizing there is this element of design, there is the element of copy.
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00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:56.680
These things matter and you can do
this. And then we get to thoughtful
373
00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:02.440
execution. And what I like about
thoughtful execution is we're not trying to get
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00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:07.680
your attention, we're trying to deliver
things of value. That's the thoughtful part.
375
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None of us want to be sold
to. All of us could welcome
376
00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:15.240
information that we either that makes this
laugh or as helpful to us in one
377
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:18.559
aspect of our life. And then, lastly, and here's the fun part
378
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.240
of this world, you can be
courageous, artful and thoughtful and still fail.
379
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:25.359
And you could fail because you don't
use the scientific method, you don't
380
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:27.599
have a little bit of math,
and I'm a lot of marketers go south
381
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:32.000
on this one. It's not that
hard. In the book I talk a
382
00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:37.799
lot about how you can create very
inexpensive ways of monitoring your your success.
383
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:41.400
So beat cats, be the cool
cats of marketing and you'll kill it.
384
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:47.000
We will be the cool cats.
I love it. Well, drew thank
385
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:49.079
you so much for stopping by be
to be growth. For those that want
386
00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:52.680
to pick up the book you,
I know you've mentioned it a little bit
387
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:55.240
here in that the episode, but
tell us how we can best connect with
388
00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:59.119
you, and then what renegades doing
as well? Sure so you can can
389
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:03.839
renegade on renegadecom. You can find
the book there. Books also available and
390
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:08.440
for formats on Amazon and I always
welcome you know, hit me up on
391
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:11.160
Linkedin. Let me know you listen
to the episode. If you want a
392
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.200
chapter of the book, I'm happy
to send you one. Fantastic. Can
393
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:21.240
connect with me over on Linkedin as
well. Just Search Benjie Block and we're
394
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:25.200
having conversations like this one that we
just had withdrew all the time here and
395
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:30.319
be to be growth. We love
these conversations to help inform and our own
396
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:34.000
innovation right in our marketing strategies.
So make sure, if you have yet
397
00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:38.400
to subscribe to the show, to
do that on whatever your favorite podcast platform
398
00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:45.160
is. We're releasing new episodes five
days a week and so we really appreciate
399
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:48.480
you subscribing to the show. Drew, thanks for being here on be to
400
00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:52.400
be growth. Men, Benjie,
thank you, man five shows a week.
401
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:56.680
It's incredible. Good for you,
it's fun and I love I love
402
00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.799
getting to chat with you, and
we know our listeners get a ton out
403
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:04.680
of this. So to everybody listening, Hey, keep doing work that matters
404
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:21.039
and will be back real soon with
another episode. If you enjoyed a day
405
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:25.119
show, hit subscribe for more marketing
goodness. And if you really enjoyed today
406
00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.920
show, take a second to rate
and review the podcast on the platform you're
407
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:33.200
listening to it on right now.
If you really really enjoyed this episode,
408
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share the love by texting it to
a friend who would find it insightful.
409
00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:37.759
Thanks for listening and thanks for sharing.