The 5 I's of CX

WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:08.730 It's the emotional connections that are really the differentiators, and we all 2 00:00:08.730 --> 00:00:13.010 know this there. The funny part is when we start putting on our business hat, 3 00:00:13.020 --> 00:00:16.420 we kind of let those things go out the window. We don't really think about it. 4 00:00:16.430 --> 00:00:19.760 We are human beings, regardless of whether it's at work or at home. 5 00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:28.720 Intention. Investment, Invention Inspection, It oration. If you did not 6 00:00:28.720 --> 00:00:33.540 get all five of those eyes of customer experience, don't worry. They're an 7 00:00:33.540 --> 00:00:38.630 important part of this conversation on the c X Siris on B two b growth. My 8 00:00:38.630 --> 00:00:43.230 name is Ethan Butte, host of the Sea X, Siri's host of the customer experience 9 00:00:43.230 --> 00:00:48.690 podcast and author of the book Re Humanize Your Business and I'm joined 10 00:00:48.690 --> 00:00:53.370 by Jim Rombach, one of those dynamic guys with multiple businesses and even 11 00:00:53.370 --> 00:00:57.820 multiple podcasts, including B two B digital marketer. Not only do we talk 12 00:00:57.820 --> 00:01:03.860 about those five eyes, we talk about seven keys to employee engagement tips 13 00:01:03.860 --> 00:01:09.620 for better videos, the leader's role in frontline performance and so much mawr. 14 00:01:09.630 --> 00:01:16.510 Here's my conversation with Jim. Your brand is a promise that you make to 15 00:01:16.510 --> 00:01:20.770 your customers. Your customer experience is how your employees 16 00:01:20.780 --> 00:01:25.220 deliver on that promise, for better or for worse. The'keeper's honoring your 17 00:01:25.220 --> 00:01:29.770 promises and exceeding customer expectations, then, is significantly 18 00:01:29.770 --> 00:01:35.050 influenced by employee engagement. So today you'll learn keys to creating 19 00:01:35.050 --> 00:01:39.310 employee engagement, ways to improve training for better frontline 20 00:01:39.310 --> 00:01:44.330 performance and tips to assure that your customer experience is emotionally 21 00:01:44.330 --> 00:01:48.710 intelligent. As president of Influence Toe Action, our guest Trains and 22 00:01:48.710 --> 00:01:52.710 coaches, B two B sales and marketing leaders. As founder of Call Center 23 00:01:52.710 --> 00:01:57.700 coach, he trains and coaches Frontline leaders in contact centers. He's also 24 00:01:57.700 --> 00:02:02.170 the host of The Fast Leader Podcast and the brand new B two b digital marketer 25 00:02:02.170 --> 00:02:07.310 Podcast Jim Rombach. Welcome to the customer experience Podcast. Oh, Ethan, 26 00:02:07.310 --> 00:02:11.550 thanks a lot. I appreciate the chance to be here and to go through this 27 00:02:11.550 --> 00:02:14.500 exchange with you. I think it's gonna be a lot of fun. Yeah, me, too. I 28 00:02:14.500 --> 00:02:18.040 really like the work that you're up to. I think it speaks as I as I offered 29 00:02:18.040 --> 00:02:22.260 there in the introduction. You can't talk about customer experience without 30 00:02:22.260 --> 00:02:26.350 talking about employee experience that you are deeply and are related, and 31 00:02:26.350 --> 00:02:30.940 it's kind of engagement. Theme and training is so critical. Thio, all of 32 00:02:30.940 --> 00:02:34.740 it. So let's start where we always start here, which is customer 33 00:02:34.740 --> 00:02:37.790 experience. When I say customer experience, Jim, what does that mean to 34 00:02:37.790 --> 00:02:42.910 you? So for me, I think of customer experience, really, as the collective 35 00:02:42.920 --> 00:02:49.630 output of your five eyes. And that is your intention, your investment, your 36 00:02:49.630 --> 00:02:54.880 invention, your inspection and your iterations. And really, it's those five 37 00:02:54.880 --> 00:02:57.860 things together working in concert with one another. Sometimes they're in 38 00:02:57.860 --> 00:03:02.300 parallel. Sometimes certain things have to come before others, but ultimately, 39 00:03:02.300 --> 00:03:07.740 when we think about engagement as an ecosystem, it really entails all of 40 00:03:07.740 --> 00:03:13.220 those awesome. Can you? Just because it's a nice framework, The five eyes? 41 00:03:13.230 --> 00:03:17.280 Can you go through those once more and maybe give like a one or a two liner on 42 00:03:17.290 --> 00:03:22.300 each one? Just for context? Sure, I think intention is the first one. It's 43 00:03:22.310 --> 00:03:26.460 you know, what do you intend to do? Who do you intend to be? What culture do 44 00:03:26.460 --> 00:03:30.680 you intend to create when it comes to solutions that you want to solve for 45 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:34.120 what are the intentions that you have all around that, and a lot of that is 46 00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:37.800 wrapped into the culture and legacy, what you do day in and day out 47 00:03:37.810 --> 00:03:41.910 investment you know, oftentimes they say are dollars air. Actually speaking, 48 00:03:41.920 --> 00:03:45.200 you know, volumes in regards to what we put importance to. The same thing 49 00:03:45.200 --> 00:03:49.310 applies with our metrics. So where are we investing our time and effort and 50 00:03:49.320 --> 00:03:54.460 all of our energies into invention? The fact is, when you start looking at the 51 00:03:54.460 --> 00:03:58.210 differentiating elements associate with organizations that are successful today 52 00:03:58.220 --> 00:04:02.660 and what has happened in the past decade or so is really companies have 53 00:04:02.670 --> 00:04:06.890 grown through acquisition. Well, when you start thinking about growth through 54 00:04:06.890 --> 00:04:10.400 acquisition, really, what it does is it increases your debt load. It doesn't 55 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:14.050 quite handsomely, and the organizations that have really been able to 56 00:04:14.050 --> 00:04:17.810 differentiate and disrupt is really through invention. And so many 57 00:04:17.810 --> 00:04:21.959 organizations are trying to create cultures around, being more inventive 58 00:04:21.970 --> 00:04:26.560 and, you know, enticing and encouraging and engaging and nurturing the 59 00:04:26.570 --> 00:04:31.670 innovative spirit within their own organization. Inspection. Same thing 60 00:04:31.670 --> 00:04:34.280 when you start talking about my investment and all that is, I need to 61 00:04:34.280 --> 00:04:38.270 set an expectation with my intentions, and then I need to expect inspect 62 00:04:38.270 --> 00:04:41.910 whether or not that is happening. We can't just talk about it. We actually 63 00:04:41.910 --> 00:04:45.820 have to make it a commitment, and that is everybody you know. So senior level 64 00:04:45.820 --> 00:04:49.210 leaders need a model it So you need to be inspecting me is a senior level 65 00:04:49.210 --> 00:04:53.300 leader, and I need to be inspecting you as a frontline person to make sure we 66 00:04:53.300 --> 00:04:57.740 have congruence E. Because otherwise what happens is a disconnect. We have a 67 00:04:57.740 --> 00:05:01.480 decapitation occur, and I often talk about the disconnection between the 68 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:04.970 head and the feet, meaning the organization at the top level, The head 69 00:05:04.980 --> 00:05:09.090 is making decisions, you know, making commitments, saying and making 70 00:05:09.090 --> 00:05:12.940 statements of that of importance, you know, setting a vision in a path. But 71 00:05:12.940 --> 00:05:15.540 yet when you start getting down to the front line and the feet, they're not 72 00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:20.720 going in that same direction. Eso we're not delivering what we say or think we 73 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:24.440 actually are and then integration, because the fact is, when you start 74 00:05:24.440 --> 00:05:29.640 looking at, you know, Darwin his work, it was correct. It's not the strongest. 75 00:05:29.650 --> 00:05:32.850 It's the ones that can adapt the best that are the most successful. So we 76 00:05:32.850 --> 00:05:38.010 need to be open minded, and we need to know that at any given point in time, 77 00:05:38.020 --> 00:05:43.540 with a given piece of information or a given event, you know, like a pandemic 78 00:05:43.550 --> 00:05:47.820 that we need to be able to pivot. And if we can't pivot if we can't really, 79 00:05:47.830 --> 00:05:53.730 you know, make that shift we're done for. I can definitely see how all five 80 00:05:53.730 --> 00:05:58.260 of those eyes need to be aligned or at least interact with one another 81 00:05:58.260 --> 00:06:02.060 consistently. I really like the framework very much keeping that top to 82 00:06:02.060 --> 00:06:06.870 bottom and the internal thought from a strategic standpoint and some of the 83 00:06:06.870 --> 00:06:10.840 marketing messages to the front lines in closing that gap that exists, 84 00:06:10.840 --> 00:06:14.100 there's so many good benefits. Thio keeping those five eyes aligned Where 85 00:06:14.100 --> 00:06:18.830 do you come? ABC Common uh, misalignments. Or like we had 11 final 86 00:06:18.830 --> 00:06:22.470 point to make on the five eyes. Do you wish more people thought about or knew 87 00:06:22.470 --> 00:06:26.350 or did? It's, you know, and this is where it fits into the five eyes. And 88 00:06:26.350 --> 00:06:30.210 of course I did this intentionally, But it's the unintentional blindness, you 89 00:06:30.210 --> 00:06:33.960 know, I didn't intend to not pay attention to one of those things, but 90 00:06:33.960 --> 00:06:38.710 it just happened. I don't think anybody at any given point time with any part 91 00:06:38.710 --> 00:06:42.160 of the organization, you know, comes in and says I'm just gonna ignore this 92 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:46.600 important component of our business, you know, because these things are what 93 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:51.210 I like on. So I think it's the unintentional. Blindness is where you 94 00:06:51.210 --> 00:06:55.380 know the problems occur, and then you know what? They'll catch up on you fast 95 00:06:55.390 --> 00:07:00.070 in today's rapid pace. And, you know, people invented that whole vodka thing 96 00:07:00.070 --> 00:07:04.080 you know about volatile, you know, and all of that. But the fact is, it's true, 97 00:07:04.080 --> 00:07:08.100 and it's not going to stop. You know, people talk about this new reality and 98 00:07:08.100 --> 00:07:12.490 new normal, whatever you wanna call it. It's really just normal. Yeah, and so 99 00:07:12.490 --> 00:07:16.010 that's why the inspection, it aeration or so important that's where the pivot 100 00:07:16.010 --> 00:07:20.520 is actually happening. It seems like the intention might be something that 101 00:07:20.530 --> 00:07:25.510 is sustained over time, and it's kind of like generally speaking, core values 102 00:07:25.520 --> 00:07:31.000 mission purpose kind of the What are we all doing here at a high level, all the 103 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:35.440 way down to kind of the practice? The direct front line practice most 104 00:07:35.440 --> 00:07:39.180 definitely cool. So let's get into emotional intelligence. That's 105 00:07:39.180 --> 00:07:42.810 something you speak to regularly. It's something that you teach kind of. What 106 00:07:42.810 --> 00:07:46.170 is emotional intelligence? Why is it important? And maybe what are a few 107 00:07:46.170 --> 00:07:51.280 thoughts that you have about emotional intelligence from employees relative to 108 00:07:51.280 --> 00:07:57.100 the customer experience. Well, when you start, you know, looking at all of the 109 00:07:57.100 --> 00:08:03.960 behavioral sciences and what enables us toe have customers that trust us on, 110 00:08:03.960 --> 00:08:07.630 then therefore recommend us to others. You know, it's really a based on the 111 00:08:07.630 --> 00:08:11.460 emotional. I mean, be able to provide a good product is really, you know, table 112 00:08:11.460 --> 00:08:15.860 stakes. I mean, you have to do that. So the differentiating factor comes down 113 00:08:15.860 --> 00:08:21.820 into how we are addressing their emotional needs, how we're building 114 00:08:21.820 --> 00:08:28.310 rapport, how you know we're being able to sustain it. It's create and sustain 115 00:08:28.310 --> 00:08:33.480 it. How are being able to, you know, disseminate it amongst others? I mean, 116 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:38.270 all of those things really come down to the difference of Am I gonna be here 117 00:08:38.270 --> 00:08:42.730 today and tomorrow? No, Or 10 years from now? It's the emotional 118 00:08:42.730 --> 00:08:45.950 connections that are really the differentiators, and we all know this. 119 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:50.860 The funny part is we do that in our personal lives. But oftentimes when we 120 00:08:50.860 --> 00:08:54.390 start putting on our business hat, we kind of let those things go out the 121 00:08:54.390 --> 00:08:55.970 window. We don't really think about it, 122 00:08:57.240 --> 00:09:00.730 really. It's no different I mean, we are human beings, regardless of whether 123 00:09:00.730 --> 00:09:05.350 it's at work or at home. Unfortunately, I feel like that line is blurring a 124 00:09:05.350 --> 00:09:09.390 little bit, and especially now that so many people are working from home right 125 00:09:09.390 --> 00:09:13.090 now that that takes it to another level. But I really feel like consistently in 126 00:09:13.090 --> 00:09:17.100 these conversations that we're having on this podcast, that so many good 127 00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:21.610 marks of being a good manager or being a good front line employees or even 128 00:09:21.610 --> 00:09:26.690 being a good customer is really just basically being a good person, right, 129 00:09:26.690 --> 00:09:30.860 like being open to other people, actively listening, trying to do the 130 00:09:30.860 --> 00:09:35.600 right thing, etcetera, etcetera. And so this. This line between who I am as a 131 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.020 person and who I am is a professional. I feel like it's thinning. Have you 132 00:09:39.020 --> 00:09:43.820 seen that? Maybe it is thinning, but there's an issue with this is that when 133 00:09:43.820 --> 00:09:47.420 you start talking about emotional intelligence and that in the workplace, 134 00:09:47.430 --> 00:09:50.390 and then also, when you start looking at the societal shifts and what has 135 00:09:50.390 --> 00:09:54.660 been occurring over the past decade with the explosion of you know, digital 136 00:09:54.660 --> 00:09:59.600 devices and self absorption, as well as the attacking of anybody and everybody 137 00:09:59.600 --> 00:10:02.440 socially. I mean, there's there's many different elements that have 138 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:06.490 contributed to where we are today. It still comes back down to the whole 139 00:10:06.490 --> 00:10:13.020 emotional elements. How How am not just I projecting myself, you know? And how 140 00:10:13.020 --> 00:10:17.520 people are proceeding me and it goes well beyond, you know, treating you 141 00:10:17.520 --> 00:10:21.530 like I wanna be treated goes well beyond that. And I think too many times 142 00:10:21.530 --> 00:10:25.750 in a business setting we try to skip already passed through that. You know, 143 00:10:25.750 --> 00:10:29.850 it's like, Okay, we got business to do. Let's get going. Time out. You know, 144 00:10:29.860 --> 00:10:34.080 it's worth it for us to take those few minutes to connect as individuals 145 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:37.390 before we start doing our business because it makes the business easier. 146 00:10:37.400 --> 00:10:42.720 So emotional intelligence and me being certified by MHS really covers several 147 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:45.710 different attributes associated with emotional intelligence. Oftentimes, 148 00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:49.640 people will talk about empathy, empathy, empathy. Well, that's just one you know 149 00:10:49.640 --> 00:10:54.330 of. Of the 54 attributes associated with emotional intelligence, and the 150 00:10:54.330 --> 00:10:58.740 reason I chose to get certified by MHS is because they have the largest body 151 00:10:58.750 --> 00:11:04.400 empirical evidence on on emotional intelligence in the entire world, and I, 152 00:11:04.400 --> 00:11:09.700 for me being in contact centers and customer service 20 plus years ago, I 153 00:11:09.700 --> 00:11:14.170 intuitively knew the connection between if my employees were taken care of. And 154 00:11:14.170 --> 00:11:19.150 my my employees were taking care of one another. And they were, you know, 155 00:11:19.150 --> 00:11:22.450 committed and engaged to the organization that my customer was 156 00:11:22.450 --> 00:11:25.910 taking taken care off. I I jokingly always used to say that we could 157 00:11:25.910 --> 00:11:30.200 totally eliminate the entire voice of customer industry if we just focused in 158 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:35.750 on employee engagement. Interesting. What are some common ways to approach 159 00:11:35.760 --> 00:11:39.130 emotional intelligence if an organization hasn't been thinking about 160 00:11:39.130 --> 00:11:43.250 it at all? You know, how do you start? You start with an assessment. Are there 161 00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:47.040 programs to developer enhance it internally? Is it something that can be 162 00:11:47.040 --> 00:11:52.330 taught as a skill? Just give us a Maybe a practical pass on it is Well, well, 163 00:11:52.340 --> 00:11:57.610 can it be taught as a skill? Most definitely. However, it is much like 164 00:11:57.620 --> 00:12:01.270 thinking about an athletic scenario. Okay, so I also coach middle school 165 00:12:01.270 --> 00:12:05.870 baseball so I can have my middle school boys sitting there out in the field and 166 00:12:05.870 --> 00:12:09.790 I'm gonna have skill sets from everything from a, you know, a travel 167 00:12:09.790 --> 00:12:13.770 ball player who is, you know, highly, you know, highly skilled, even at, you 168 00:12:13.770 --> 00:12:17.820 know, 11, 12, 13 years old. And I could have somebody who's who can sit there 169 00:12:17.820 --> 00:12:21.390 and tell me Coach I've never played before. Mhm. All of them can play 170 00:12:21.390 --> 00:12:24.520 baseball, but there are different starting points. Everybody can improve 171 00:12:24.520 --> 00:12:27.080 their emotional intelligence. They're just at different starting points. And 172 00:12:27.080 --> 00:12:32.070 there's a lot of factors that go into your starting point. But ultimately all 173 00:12:32.070 --> 00:12:35.710 of us can improve our emotional intelligence all the way up until we're 174 00:12:35.710 --> 00:12:39.730 about 80 years old. That's what the research shows us where your I Q kind 175 00:12:39.730 --> 00:12:44.410 of taps out once you get into your you know, your twenties. And now what does 176 00:12:44.410 --> 00:12:48.120 that say? I could get get dumber as I get older and no, no, no. What happens 177 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.480 is your your knowledge and your aptitude to be ableto take on knowledge. 178 00:12:52.490 --> 00:12:56.390 You know, kind of kind of hits that plateau, but it's your emotional 179 00:12:56.390 --> 00:13:00.530 elements that take over, and we kind of know that we call it wisdom and that 180 00:13:00.530 --> 00:13:05.280 wisdom comes with age. And so the the joke for me is that unfortunately, God 181 00:13:05.280 --> 00:13:10.070 didn't give us youth and wisdom at the same time, right? Uh, unfortunately, we 182 00:13:10.070 --> 00:13:12.720 have to continue to work at it. And hopefully we're listening on the law 183 00:13:12.730 --> 00:13:15.870 all along the way and we're observing, and we're continuing to improve our 184 00:13:15.870 --> 00:13:20.240 emotional intelligence so we all can improve it. But it starts with self 185 00:13:20.250 --> 00:13:24.810 realization. It starts with that self assessment. It starts with looking and 186 00:13:24.810 --> 00:13:30.880 reviewing myself, and then therefore I can understand how I am impacting, 187 00:13:30.890 --> 00:13:36.530 impacting and affecting those around me. And then once I do that type of work, I 188 00:13:36.530 --> 00:13:42.180 can start looking at others and being, you know, more attentive and mindful of 189 00:13:42.190 --> 00:13:46.980 their interaction within the group. And then hopefully we can as leaders, we 190 00:13:46.980 --> 00:13:50.240 can make, you know, adaptations. You know, we could talk about our 191 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:54.300 intentions, you know, and then we can make iterations so that ultimately the 192 00:13:54.300 --> 00:13:58.320 entire team starts performing at a higher level. We don't want everybody 193 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:00.960 to be the exact same on our team, because that's gonna hurt your 194 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:04.910 innovation. And so when I start putting all of these emotional intelligence 195 00:14:04.910 --> 00:14:09.020 around all these five eyes, I now could start delivering high performance like 196 00:14:09.020 --> 00:14:12.720 I never would have been able to do before. But it takes planning. It 197 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:17.740 doesn't happen just by happen stance. It's not luck. It doesn't happen, you 198 00:14:17.740 --> 00:14:21.700 know, just by, you know, some movement of the stars. That's just not the way 199 00:14:21.700 --> 00:14:26.790 it works. You've got a plan you got, You got toe assess, you know, and then 200 00:14:26.790 --> 00:14:31.050 you have to formulate a prescription on. Then you have to actually execute 201 00:14:31.140 --> 00:14:35.180 Awesome. You kind of touched on where I want to go next, which is training 202 00:14:35.180 --> 00:14:38.250 specifically, training of frontline workers to kind of close that gap 203 00:14:38.260 --> 00:14:42.640 between the promise and the delivery. But before we do for folks that really 204 00:14:42.650 --> 00:14:45.810 are interested in that topic and everything you were just sharing with 205 00:14:45.810 --> 00:14:50.170 us over the past five minutes or so, what is M h s stand for? And, uh, and 206 00:14:50.170 --> 00:14:54.440 where might people go learn a little bit more about this? Eso multi health 207 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:59.880 systems is an organization out of Canada, and they actually provide other, 208 00:14:59.880 --> 00:15:03.010 different types of behavioral assessments and things like that. But 209 00:15:03.020 --> 00:15:10.790 But they are part of the group that houses the e que i to Dato and Dr 210 00:15:10.790 --> 00:15:14.540 Steven Stein is the president of MHS, And he's actually been on my podcast, 211 00:15:14.540 --> 00:15:19.820 the fast leader show, and yeah, I mean, really I just their their framework is 212 00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:24.730 something that for me who came from an analytical background I worked. I did 213 00:15:24.730 --> 00:15:28.150 work for a company that measures the customer experience for 15 years. I 214 00:15:28.150 --> 00:15:32.240 think they're empirical. Evidence for me eliminates a lot of the doubts that 215 00:15:32.250 --> 00:15:36.190 others may have about emotional intelligence and how to develop it. So 216 00:15:36.190 --> 00:15:40.780 MHS multi Health Systems out of Canada and Dr Steven Stein Awesome. If you are 217 00:15:40.780 --> 00:15:44.840 listening to this podcast, we do short write ups. We include some video clips, 218 00:15:44.840 --> 00:15:48.030 and we include links to some of the things that we talk about in these 219 00:15:48.030 --> 00:15:52.830 conversations. And so anytime you want, you can go visit bom bom dot com slash 220 00:15:52.830 --> 00:15:56.460 podcast and follow up on some of these nuggets that we share throughout the 221 00:15:56.460 --> 00:16:01.980 conversations again, that's just b o M b b o m b dot com slash podcast. So, 222 00:16:01.990 --> 00:16:06.070 Jim, I would like to talk a little bit about training and specifically, 223 00:16:06.040 --> 00:16:11.760 frontline training and even more specifically, flaws in the traditional 224 00:16:11.760 --> 00:16:15.490 approaches to to frontline training. Where do you see things going wrong and 225 00:16:15.490 --> 00:16:20.330 what? Or maybe some better ways to get our frontline employees to close that 226 00:16:20.330 --> 00:16:25.950 gap between the promise and the delivery well for me and with what I do 227 00:16:25.950 --> 00:16:29.910 and I focus in on, it's really all about the leader, right? That that is 228 00:16:29.910 --> 00:16:33.590 the differentiator, a matter of fact when you start looking at, you know, 229 00:16:33.590 --> 00:16:38.460 the Gallup Organization and the research that they have done on 230 00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:42.630 employee engagement. Dr. Jim Harder was on my podcast, the fast leaders show, 231 00:16:42.630 --> 00:16:47.710 and he's the author of the book called It's the Manager and what he says is 232 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:53.590 over 80 for the past 80 years. Of all of these studies that they've done on 233 00:16:53.590 --> 00:16:59.490 workplace engagement in workplace health is it really comes down to the 234 00:16:59.490 --> 00:17:03.270 manager. And unfortunately what we do on the front line is we take people who 235 00:17:03.270 --> 00:17:09.430 are incredible individual contributors, and then what we do is we ruin them. We 236 00:17:09.430 --> 00:17:12.069 ruin them by saying, You know what? You're so good at what you do. I want 237 00:17:12.069 --> 00:17:14.980 you to supervise these 15 people and just show him what you know and 238 00:17:14.980 --> 00:17:19.480 everything will be great. That is not the way it works. Competencies for 239 00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:22.680 being a successful individual contributor are not the same 240 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:28.500 competencies to be a leader of those individual contributors and What we 241 00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:33.570 have to do is make sure that we're assisting in the development of the 242 00:17:33.570 --> 00:17:38.040 skills in those six core competencies that we focus in on at the call center 243 00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:41.530 Coach Leadership Academy that we've based into the research that's been 244 00:17:41.530 --> 00:17:45.810 done by Development Dimensions International on front line leadership 245 00:17:45.810 --> 00:17:49.890 development. Now the traditional path has been, Hey, we're gonna send you to 246 00:17:49.890 --> 00:17:53.890 this workshop or watch these videos or, you know, sit down and and take this 247 00:17:53.890 --> 00:17:57.590 class. And when you're done, you know, wave that they must. They must add in 248 00:17:57.590 --> 00:18:00.740 their way, this magic wand and you'll be a better leader again. That's not 249 00:18:00.740 --> 00:18:05.510 the way it works. We talked about wisdom, right? It's a journey. It's a 250 00:18:05.510 --> 00:18:10.070 developmental path. And so what we've done is we've created you know, what is 251 00:18:10.070 --> 00:18:13.820 referred to as a blended learning environment for people to be able to 252 00:18:13.820 --> 00:18:18.230 develop those leadership skills because what, when we start talking about front 253 00:18:18.230 --> 00:18:22.090 the front line in the frontline success, it comes down to that front line leader 254 00:18:22.090 --> 00:18:27.450 being able to develop them. I mean, we can't put the burden on that front line 255 00:18:27.450 --> 00:18:31.580 contributors shoulders and say, get better, right? That's just not the way 256 00:18:31.580 --> 00:18:36.310 that it works. And when we do that, we feel the negative effects of that water, 257 00:18:36.310 --> 00:18:41.720 the negative effects, low morale, high turnover. I mean, you know, not being 258 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:44.960 able to fill the positions because we've now, you know, created a 259 00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:48.750 reputation in the environment. You don't wanna work there, and we and we 260 00:18:48.750 --> 00:18:53.860 wonder why we have this problem. And so d. D. I has done a couple different 261 00:18:53.860 --> 00:18:58.220 studies on that front line leader, and they show that by age, they're they're 262 00:18:58.220 --> 00:19:01.710 looking at frontline leaders across a multitude of different industries and 263 00:19:01.710 --> 00:19:06.410 disciplines. And they say, on average, a person is about 30 years old when 264 00:19:06.410 --> 00:19:09.110 they take on that front line leader role. Now we know in different 265 00:19:09.110 --> 00:19:12.320 industries it's a lot sooner, but we have to put that in perspective. This 266 00:19:12.320 --> 00:19:17.650 is more of a global type of report on, and they said that they're the first 267 00:19:17.660 --> 00:19:21.810 leadership development of any kind that comes for those people doesn't come 268 00:19:21.810 --> 00:19:27.330 until the age of 36. Whoa, what the heck was happening for six years? Six 269 00:19:27.330 --> 00:19:32.720 years of bad management and leadership on. That's assuming when they do get 270 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:36.030 that, you know, after six years, they're not sitting in a classroom for 271 00:19:36.030 --> 00:19:39.830 four days or four hours thinking that when I get out of here, I'm gonna rock 272 00:19:39.830 --> 00:19:42.450 and roll, man, and I'm gonna be successful again. That's not the way it 273 00:19:42.450 --> 00:19:47.020 works. You could developmental path that takes people, you know, through 274 00:19:47.030 --> 00:19:50.860 building skills in the six core competencies. And then we give them yes, 275 00:19:50.860 --> 00:19:55.440 videos. We also have live, you know, weekly Q and A's. Uh, there's several 276 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:58.670 things that we provide in order to help them go along their journey. And one of 277 00:19:58.670 --> 00:20:02.720 the most important things that people often forget is that we have a 278 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:07.290 community for them. Because here's one thing that we also know is that if I'm 279 00:20:07.290 --> 00:20:11.740 struggling as a frontline leader in an organization, do you think I'm gonna go 280 00:20:11.740 --> 00:20:14.930 to my boss and tell them, Do you think I'm gonna go to a colleague and tell 281 00:20:14.930 --> 00:20:19.770 them, Do you think I'm gonna go to a subordinate and tell them? Heck, no. So 282 00:20:19.770 --> 00:20:23.870 we need to give them a safe place in order to be able to ask questions and 283 00:20:23.870 --> 00:20:28.170 get support, and then also help others. Perspective is most important. Talking 284 00:20:28.170 --> 00:20:32.850 about invention We expect our people to be more innovative, but yet we lock him 285 00:20:32.850 --> 00:20:36.950 into our own four walls, whether it's virtual or not, with which what we 286 00:20:36.950 --> 00:20:41.340 should be doing is saying, I want you to go out and seek what others are 287 00:20:41.340 --> 00:20:45.620 doing that's different from us and then bring that back because then we need 288 00:20:45.620 --> 00:20:50.510 toe way that to see and and assess that and determine whether or not we need to 289 00:20:50.510 --> 00:20:54.590 pivot. That's really what should happen. And by having community, we could do 290 00:20:54.590 --> 00:20:58.030 that. That's how adults learn. The best is actually in community, not in the 291 00:20:58.030 --> 00:21:04.060 classroom. Hey, everybody, Logan with sweet fish here if you've been 292 00:21:04.060 --> 00:21:07.560 listening to the show for a while, you know, we're big proponents of putting 293 00:21:07.560 --> 00:21:11.840 out original organic content on LinkedIn. But one thing that's always 294 00:21:11.840 --> 00:21:15.840 been a struggle for a team like ours is too easily track the reach of that 295 00:21:15.840 --> 00:21:19.140 linked in content. That's why I was really excited when I heard about 296 00:21:19.140 --> 00:21:23.660 Shield the other day from a connection on you guessed it linked in. Since our 297 00:21:23.660 --> 00:21:27.910 team started using shield, I've loved how it's led us easily track and 298 00:21:27.910 --> 00:21:32.210 analyze the performance of are linked in content without having to manually 299 00:21:32.210 --> 00:21:36.140 log it ourselves. It automatically creates reports and generates some 300 00:21:36.140 --> 00:21:40.240 dashboards that are incredibly useful to see things like what contents been 301 00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:43.180 performing the best and what days of the week are we getting the most 302 00:21:43.180 --> 00:21:47.790 engagement and our average views proposed? I highly suggest you guys 303 00:21:47.790 --> 00:21:51.140 check out this tool. If you're putting out content on LinkedIn, and if you're 304 00:21:51.140 --> 00:21:55.950 not, you should be. It's been a game changer for us. If you go to shield app 305 00:21:55.960 --> 00:22:00.710 dot ai and check out the 10 day free trial. You can even use our promo code 306 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:07.380 B two B growth to get a 25% discount. Again, that's shield app dot ai And 307 00:22:07.380 --> 00:22:12.810 that promo code is be the number to be growth. All one word. All right, let's 308 00:22:12.810 --> 00:22:19.340 get back to the show. E. Love it. I can really relate to a lot of the things 309 00:22:19.340 --> 00:22:23.320 that you offered their specifically, even myself and other people I've 310 00:22:23.320 --> 00:22:26.830 observed throughout my career. You know, you're the best individual contributor 311 00:22:26.830 --> 00:22:29.630 on the team, or at least perceived as such, and so you get the first 312 00:22:29.630 --> 00:22:34.630 management promotion. But but there's no training or coaching around making 313 00:22:34.630 --> 00:22:37.820 that transition and the two jobs air dramatically different. Being a high 314 00:22:37.820 --> 00:22:41.690 performers, an individual contributor and running a team of people trying 315 00:22:41.690 --> 00:22:46.130 thio turn as many of them is possible in the high performers is huge, huge 316 00:22:46.130 --> 00:22:50.120 gap there. And I completely agree about this kind of the peer to peer piece 317 00:22:50.120 --> 00:22:53.800 that helps broaden your perspective. It's someone you can relate to. I think 318 00:22:53.800 --> 00:22:57.340 people in a community generally have enough in common that you're all in the 319 00:22:57.340 --> 00:23:00.780 same community, but enough different that you can kind of learn and grow 320 00:23:00.780 --> 00:23:04.630 together. It's a really, really smart, smart process there. And the last thing 321 00:23:04.630 --> 00:23:09.990 I'll add is that, you know, just like the leader or manager needs to properly 322 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:14.920 kind of model appropriate behavior in tone and and to provide that 323 00:23:14.920 --> 00:23:19.030 development, like as the best way to develop frontline performances through 324 00:23:19.030 --> 00:23:23.390 developing the people. Likewise, senior leaders and senior managers need to be 325 00:23:23.390 --> 00:23:27.160 working on on those coaches. Just the say are the start of the manager is 326 00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:30.730 just the same, you know, I'm glad that you said that because oftentimes I see 327 00:23:30.730 --> 00:23:34.390 that you talk about another gap and you talk about a certain area of 328 00:23:34.390 --> 00:23:38.510 opportunity is, you know, I'll often find that senior level leaders think 329 00:23:38.510 --> 00:23:41.020 that they're immune to that type of development, yet they've never gone 330 00:23:41.020 --> 00:23:46.370 through it either. Like so, Uh, um, if you're not emulating it, But yet you're 331 00:23:46.370 --> 00:23:51.050 saying you expect it, you're you're setting yourself up for a whole lot of 332 00:23:51.050 --> 00:23:57.730 failure. If you think that people are not noticing that, you know I'm going 333 00:23:57.730 --> 00:24:01.800 through and I'm getting developed on issues that I see in you, boss. Right? 334 00:24:01.810 --> 00:24:05.360 And yet you're not doing the development either. So wait, wait, wait 335 00:24:05.360 --> 00:24:08.190 a minute. You know that it's the same thing you offered from the from the 336 00:24:08.190 --> 00:24:11.830 front line manager to the French frontline employees, which is Hey, man, 337 00:24:11.830 --> 00:24:16.300 get better, frankly, get better, you know? So So a senior manager should not 338 00:24:16.310 --> 00:24:20.350 be doing that, of course, to a mid mid level or front line manager either. So 339 00:24:20.350 --> 00:24:24.620 we were on the doorstep there in in several ways, UN employee engagement. 340 00:24:24.620 --> 00:24:29.100 You have a framework around that as well. And so obviously investing in 341 00:24:29.100 --> 00:24:34.390 people paying attention to people showing improving, that you care about 342 00:24:34.390 --> 00:24:38.630 there not just their performance tomorrow and next week, but to their 343 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:42.150 long term growth and development that whether there with your company or your 344 00:24:42.150 --> 00:24:46.450 brand for a year or 10 years, they're gonna leave better than they arrived. I 345 00:24:46.450 --> 00:24:50.290 think all of that is probably foundational to engagement. But you 346 00:24:50.290 --> 00:24:53.280 have a specific framework around employee engagement. I'd love for you 347 00:24:53.280 --> 00:24:57.360 to share that. Sure. And you know, I mean so when you start talking about 348 00:24:57.360 --> 00:25:01.790 the even the research because it sets this up before I go into it is talked 349 00:25:01.790 --> 00:25:05.520 about D d i Development Dimensions international on their research. When 350 00:25:05.520 --> 00:25:11.740 they looked at reasons why frontline leaders fail, nothing in there had 351 00:25:11.750 --> 00:25:16.110 anything to do about with their technical capabilities. Because the 352 00:25:16.110 --> 00:25:19.680 fact is is often times for people to be able to get in that front. Lighter, 353 00:25:19.690 --> 00:25:23.430 frontline leader role. Their technical skills have to be present, right? 354 00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:28.990 That's given. So that is not the issue. Why these frontline leaders fail. Why 355 00:25:28.990 --> 00:25:33.820 these frontline leaders fail is all based in emotional intelligence. You 356 00:25:33.820 --> 00:25:39.850 know, they treat me like I'm dirt, you know, they don't listen to my ideas. 357 00:25:39.860 --> 00:25:43.300 They don't mean those types of things there. What? Come forth when you start 358 00:25:43.300 --> 00:25:47.700 talking about that engagement issue So these seven keys are really important 359 00:25:47.710 --> 00:25:52.020 for us to be able to improve our skills on and there again, the emotional 360 00:25:52.020 --> 00:25:56.530 intelligence base. It's feeling valued so people actually feel appreciated. 361 00:25:56.540 --> 00:26:01.200 Everything that's associated with the feeling of valued conflict management, 362 00:26:01.210 --> 00:26:05.810 you know, I deal with that. Well, ownership means I create an environment 363 00:26:05.810 --> 00:26:09.060 for people to take ownership. And I take ownership myself as a leader 364 00:26:09.540 --> 00:26:10.400 Openness, 365 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:16.870 motivation, feedback, and then difference management, which is quite 366 00:26:16.870 --> 00:26:22.010 different than you know, diversity. Because we could have, you know, just 367 00:26:22.020 --> 00:26:25.570 make it simple in generic, you know, four white guys all 40 years old. 368 00:26:25.570 --> 00:26:28.580 They're all single. Are they gonna have the exact same perspectives? Absolutely 369 00:26:28.580 --> 00:26:33.010 not. You know, one came from a, you know, a Jewish family. Another one came, 370 00:26:33.020 --> 00:26:36.820 you know, from a broken home on Didn't really didn't have any, you know, 371 00:26:36.820 --> 00:26:40.200 family values because they were isolated. Another one, you know, was an 372 00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:44.460 orphan. Another one, you know, grew up with a mom and a dad and four brothers 373 00:26:44.460 --> 00:26:47.710 and sisters all the way up through, and didn't have any, you know, types of, 374 00:26:47.710 --> 00:26:51.480 you know, issues. I mean, they all have different perspectives, right? And if 375 00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:56.670 those differences that will enable us to be able to execute on our intentions 376 00:26:56.800 --> 00:27:00.760 and all have different perspectives, all of those things. I like the subtle 377 00:27:00.760 --> 00:27:04.180 difference there between difference management and conflict management 378 00:27:04.180 --> 00:27:07.920 difference. Management is dramatically different, but I think it z 379 00:27:07.930 --> 00:27:11.670 underappreciated very often. Whereas conflict management can arise between 380 00:27:11.670 --> 00:27:16.180 people who are like or dislike, you know, it's often driven by circumstance. 381 00:27:16.940 --> 00:27:20.700 Well, all right. And there's, ah, discipline and positive psychology 382 00:27:20.710 --> 00:27:26.900 where it's called unlikely pairs. And so, if you start thinking being a 383 00:27:26.900 --> 00:27:30.300 senior level leader and working across the entire organization, if you want to 384 00:27:30.300 --> 00:27:35.580 get people to really bring out mawr, you know, invention and to get deeper 385 00:27:35.580 --> 00:27:39.290 in their ideas, you know you shouldn't have all of your marketing people 386 00:27:39.290 --> 00:27:42.970 converged with one another and try to give it all your sales people, all your 387 00:27:42.970 --> 00:27:46.350 tech people. What you do is you need toe have unlikely pair, so I'm gonna 388 00:27:46.350 --> 00:27:50.760 put, you know, a tech who does programming, you know, with a marketing 389 00:27:50.760 --> 00:27:54.110 person. I'm gonna put you and you have to really mix it up. Now it's gonna be 390 00:27:54.110 --> 00:27:58.050 awkward, of course, but that's the way you get different perspectives just to 391 00:27:58.050 --> 00:28:02.970 be able to encourage that, do it pro, actively and intentionally. I assume 392 00:28:02.970 --> 00:28:07.030 that you're doing some sales and marketing alignment. Coaching is part 393 00:28:07.030 --> 00:28:10.710 of what you dio. You're just talking about teams. And so just because it's 394 00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:14.530 always a hot topic from a sales and marketing alignment standpoint, what 395 00:28:14.530 --> 00:28:17.680 are the some of the things that you typically see? And what are some 396 00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:21.170 characteristics of a relationship that's really on the right path? 397 00:28:22.340 --> 00:28:26.020 Wow, that's a loaded question. That's a bomb bomb question, right it right, 398 00:28:26.030 --> 00:28:31.650 because it really is a very unique to the organization. So for me, what I do 399 00:28:31.650 --> 00:28:37.290 is I specialize in digital marketing that is, around legion demand gin and 400 00:28:37.290 --> 00:28:42.150 then sales enablement. So I'm trying to close or, I should say, create a create 401 00:28:42.150 --> 00:28:47.820 a bridge, you know, between marketing and sales. And and so for me, if I know 402 00:28:47.820 --> 00:28:51.590 my work is done correctly, when when I've had this happen. When the sales 403 00:28:51.590 --> 00:28:55.360 people say to me, Thank you. I'm like, What are you talking about? You just 404 00:28:55.360 --> 00:28:58.740 made it a heck of a lot easier for me to make a sale. Boom. I know. I've done 405 00:28:58.740 --> 00:29:03.060 what I was supposed to dio and again all that is emotionally based. How doe 406 00:29:03.060 --> 00:29:07.440 I engage? How doe I, you know, fill my funnel. How do I get people to move 407 00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:10.750 down the path? It's a It's a journey right? And B two B sales that has 408 00:29:10.750 --> 00:29:15.190 longer sales cycles. You know, that's not a simple as hey, you know, Can I 409 00:29:15.190 --> 00:29:19.660 sell you my accounting services? E Hey, can I say in my janitorial services 410 00:29:19.660 --> 00:29:21.490 that that's not what we're talking about here? We're talking about 411 00:29:21.490 --> 00:29:25.990 solution. Sales that typically take longer is that oftentimes there is a 412 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:31.780 massive disconnect between, Actually, it's a customer issue. So in other 413 00:29:31.780 --> 00:29:35.840 words, they're not talking to their target the way that they need to be 414 00:29:35.840 --> 00:29:41.660 spoken. Thio. And they're not being able to identify really what their 415 00:29:41.670 --> 00:29:46.010 needs and what's to solve for is all about and then tying that into the 416 00:29:46.010 --> 00:29:49.580 marketing message and then therefore handing it over to sales. So really, 417 00:29:49.580 --> 00:29:56.040 all they have to do is close. Eso a lot of it. It is that copy, content and all 418 00:29:56.040 --> 00:30:00.300 of that connection issue that is the really the discourse. Here s so what 419 00:30:00.300 --> 00:30:04.590 will happen is you'll have sales that starts over promising something, and 420 00:30:04.590 --> 00:30:08.280 then when it gets passed over, you know service can't deliver on it. 421 00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:12.430 So for May I talk about the three legged stool all the time that has that 422 00:30:12.430 --> 00:30:16.980 has to go together. My marketing has to be able to do what it's supposed to do 423 00:30:16.990 --> 00:30:21.800 sales, and it also client success. And there's too many times where I talked 424 00:30:21.800 --> 00:30:25.960 organizations where Hey, they're doing okay with the marketing and sales piece. 425 00:30:25.970 --> 00:30:32.420 But then the client success component is just non existent, and so therefore, 426 00:30:32.490 --> 00:30:36.350 you have a whole lot of promising that's happening and a whole lot of 427 00:30:36.350 --> 00:30:40.270 disconnect that's occurring. So it's really an ecosystem that comes into 428 00:30:40.270 --> 00:30:45.650 play. And how do all these pieces fit? Ultimately, with the customer being the 429 00:30:45.650 --> 00:30:50.850 one that we really have toe all focus in on. Yeah, I like it. You just spoke 430 00:30:50.850 --> 00:30:57.050 Thio Ah, primary purpose of this show, which is creating that alignment 431 00:30:57.050 --> 00:31:01.130 primarily across marketing, sales and customer success or customer service, 432 00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:06.590 where even in a healthy culture we can get a bit siloed and we see we all see 433 00:31:06.590 --> 00:31:10.270 and experience the customer differently. We think about the customer differently 434 00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:13.990 And so how do we work? Despite those challenges and limitations, how do we 435 00:31:13.990 --> 00:31:19.740 work together to be more intentional and aligned, all in service of creating 436 00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:23.420 and delivering a better experience for our customers? So really enjoyed that 437 00:31:23.420 --> 00:31:27.840 passage there Any other you know, based on that, the places that we've gone so 438 00:31:27.840 --> 00:31:32.050 far in the conversation Is there any big thing that was maybe in the back of 439 00:31:32.050 --> 00:31:35.070 your mind that you would like to make sure that we include in this 440 00:31:35.070 --> 00:31:40.180 conversation? I think the main thing that needs to be in the back and all of 441 00:31:40.180 --> 00:31:44.190 our minds kind of it's full circle on what we started is that it all has to 442 00:31:44.190 --> 00:31:48.470 start with your own self assessment. So whether I am in marketing, whether I am 443 00:31:48.470 --> 00:31:52.120 in sales, whether I am in client success, heck, whether I'm one of those 444 00:31:52.120 --> 00:31:56.490 tech people that's doing programming or whether I even talk about the person in 445 00:31:56.490 --> 00:32:00.910 payroll and if we don't start looking at from that perspective and how me and 446 00:32:00.910 --> 00:32:04.480 what I do day in and day out is potentially impacting the customer, 447 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:08.670 even though it may be, you know, five degrees of separation, you're missing 448 00:32:08.670 --> 00:32:11.900 out on an opportunity to add value to your organization and, quite frankly, 449 00:32:11.900 --> 00:32:13.260 value to your own career. 450 00:32:14.340 --> 00:32:18.330 Really good. If you are listening to this and you're listening at this point, 451 00:32:18.330 --> 00:32:21.100 the conversation, I'm going to assume that you found it interesting and 452 00:32:21.100 --> 00:32:26.100 valuable. And if so, you will also enjoy Episode 80 of the customer 453 00:32:26.100 --> 00:32:29.340 experience podcast. We had a conversation with Gil Cohen, the 454 00:32:29.340 --> 00:32:33.420 founder of Employee Experience Design, and we call that episode again. Episode 455 00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:38.380 number 80 Employees experienced design How, why and where to begin. How do we 456 00:32:38.390 --> 00:32:41.770 beam or intentional in creating and delivering an experience for our 457 00:32:41.770 --> 00:32:46.010 employees, not just for our customers and then, ah, little bit earlier than 458 00:32:46.010 --> 00:32:50.800 Episode 80 on Episode 73 with Chris Wallace, the co founder and president 459 00:32:50.810 --> 00:32:56.300 of Interview Group. That's I n N e. R. Interview group. We call that one 460 00:32:56.300 --> 00:33:00.990 employees, uh, marketing to your employees, not just to your customers. 461 00:33:00.990 --> 00:33:06.040 And we also had a conversation Chris and I did on Episode 73 about closing 462 00:33:06.040 --> 00:33:10.270 that gap between what we're doing from a strategic level, what marketing is 463 00:33:10.270 --> 00:33:14.500 saying, what campaigns air going out there, and not just the awareness of 464 00:33:14.500 --> 00:33:18.600 the front line employees, but also the buy in. Do they believe it? Do they 465 00:33:18.600 --> 00:33:22.760 want to advance it? Are they are they bought in on? What you're trying to do 466 00:33:22.760 --> 00:33:26.580 is an organization so that we can close this gap between the promise we're 467 00:33:26.580 --> 00:33:30.330 making from a branding standpoint and the experience that we're delivering 468 00:33:30.330 --> 00:33:35.330 day in and day out to our customers. So, Jim, before I let you go first, I 469 00:33:35.330 --> 00:33:39.380 learned in our in our conversation before we got going and hit record here 470 00:33:39.390 --> 00:33:44.410 that you use bomb bomb. So anything you have to share on video, too be more 471 00:33:44.420 --> 00:33:47.450 emotionally intelligent in your communication or anything you want to 472 00:33:47.450 --> 00:33:52.130 add their I welcome. Do you have any thoughts on that? Well, for me, I think 473 00:33:52.130 --> 00:33:56.570 the biggest thing is toe learn how to be confident on camera. And the only 474 00:33:56.570 --> 00:33:59.870 way that you're gonna get, you know, be able to do that is by taking feedback 475 00:33:59.870 --> 00:34:03.000 from others and others that you don't know because they're protecting your 476 00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:08.989 feelings and just do it more often. Uh, a lot of it has to do with just 477 00:34:08.989 --> 00:34:13.330 practice, you know, even I was on a zoom call yesterday with somebody and 478 00:34:13.330 --> 00:34:16.420 they were talking about the sound of their own voice. And, you know, I've 479 00:34:16.420 --> 00:34:20.020 been podcasting for over five years. I've been doing online learning 480 00:34:20.030 --> 00:34:26.020 development for over 15 years. And for me, my voice no longer sounds strange 481 00:34:26.020 --> 00:34:30.030 to me because I hear it all the time, right? Yeah, there's the exposure. You 482 00:34:30.030 --> 00:34:34.790 just learn not to care. Most definitely. And I think all of us, especially with 483 00:34:34.790 --> 00:34:38.510 where we are now talking about this new way that we are going to be doing work. 484 00:34:38.520 --> 00:34:43.580 Not just today, not just in December of 2020. It's gonna be in December of 2021 485 00:34:43.850 --> 00:34:48.590 22 so on and so forth. This is the new way we will do business is that we just 486 00:34:48.590 --> 00:34:51.920 have to get over it and get used to it. I love it. I appreciate what you 487 00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:54.050 recognize there. It's really interesting. Of course, when the 488 00:34:54.050 --> 00:34:59.530 pandemic really kind of broke out in the first quarter of this year, we had 489 00:34:59.530 --> 00:35:04.840 obviously a massive influx of interest at Bom Bom in using video for personal 490 00:35:04.840 --> 00:35:09.750 messaging and kind of video communication. And the thing that was 491 00:35:09.750 --> 00:35:13.840 the most interesting to me is someone who's been here for almost a decade, is 492 00:35:13.850 --> 00:35:17.930 the problem we solve at the height of ah pandemic, where we're all forced to 493 00:35:17.930 --> 00:35:21.060 be physically distant from our prospects and customers and even from 494 00:35:21.060 --> 00:35:24.230 our fellow team members. The problem that we solved in that environment is 495 00:35:24.230 --> 00:35:28.160 the exact same problem we solved five years ago. Which is you need to get 496 00:35:28.160 --> 00:35:32.060 face to face, to build, trust, to build, report, to build relationship, to 497 00:35:32.060 --> 00:35:34.990 communicate more clearly and all these other things. And so it gives you the 498 00:35:34.990 --> 00:35:38.450 opportunity to be face to face it scale, even though at that time you still 499 00:35:38.450 --> 00:35:43.470 could do, ah, coffee meeting or or ah, big group lunch in these kinds of 500 00:35:43.470 --> 00:35:47.700 things. So I recognize that you appreciate that the value that someone 501 00:35:47.700 --> 00:35:51.150 might experience from video messaging today is the same value they're gonna 502 00:35:51.150 --> 00:35:54.890 need and want, you know, three years from now, because it's the same value, 503 00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:57.690 you know, thousands of people tens of thousands of people were getting three 504 00:35:57.690 --> 00:36:01.150 years ago. Well, it goes back to one of those ironies. I have to say, Ethan, is 505 00:36:01.150 --> 00:36:04.350 that if we think about our own personal lives and you look at the statistics 506 00:36:04.350 --> 00:36:08.650 were consuming video when we're online 80% of the time, but yet we flip it to 507 00:36:08.650 --> 00:36:13.050 business. It's like what? We don't need to do that. Yes, you dio. Absolutely. 508 00:36:13.030 --> 00:36:17.430 Hey, before I let you go, Jim, you might recognize it being a customer, 509 00:36:17.430 --> 00:36:21.380 that relationships are our number one core value at Bom Bom. And so I always 510 00:36:21.380 --> 00:36:24.550 like to give you the chance to thank her mention a person who's had a 511 00:36:24.550 --> 00:36:28.920 positive impact on your life or on your career, and to give a shout out or a 512 00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:32.630 not or a mention to a brand or a company that you really respect or 513 00:36:32.630 --> 00:36:37.820 appreciate for the way they deliver for you. As a customer, I would like Thio 514 00:36:37.830 --> 00:36:41.060 stand, and I've recognized you on another podcast. But I'm gonna do it 515 00:36:41.060 --> 00:36:45.340 again because the words that you used and he did have a huge impact on me, 516 00:36:45.350 --> 00:36:48.800 and it was for a short period of time. But yet it was lasting and lingering 517 00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:53.040 and lives on today, a matter of fact, he just reached out to connect me after 518 00:36:53.040 --> 00:36:55.720 I've been searching for him for a few years on Facebook, so I'm looking 519 00:36:55.720 --> 00:37:00.090 forward to reconnecting. His name is Dave Heart. Dave Heart. He's in West 520 00:37:00.090 --> 00:37:07.200 Virginia now. Um, I had the opportunity of working under Dave is a manager in a 521 00:37:07.200 --> 00:37:11.950 00 parts of store How we worked with AutoZone at the time. And he was just 522 00:37:11.950 --> 00:37:15.430 one of those folks that always took the high road. He'd sit there and he'd cut 523 00:37:15.430 --> 00:37:19.340 up with you, but ultimately, you know, day took the high road, and he emulated 524 00:37:19.340 --> 00:37:23.420 what you were supposed to be doing, and I greatly and he had your back, and I 525 00:37:23.420 --> 00:37:26.450 greatly appreciated him for that. Can you give me a lot of tutelage that I 526 00:37:26.450 --> 00:37:30.850 still used today? Awesome. Now, as far as the organization that I would like 527 00:37:30.860 --> 00:37:33.910 Rec Director's and you kind of gave me a little bit of framework on what 528 00:37:33.910 --> 00:37:37.880 people have done in the past. And like some others, I'm gonna go local. And I 529 00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:41.210 am going to recognize the delicious bakery in Greensboro, North Carolina. 530 00:37:41.210 --> 00:37:45.600 Ben and the team at Delicious Bakery. They've had anniversary cakes for us 531 00:37:45.600 --> 00:37:48.850 wedding cakes for us birthday cakes for us. And that is our go to place as the 532 00:37:48.850 --> 00:37:53.790 bakery. And they always do a top notch job, and when they don't first of all, 533 00:37:53.790 --> 00:37:57.290 I now can give them grace because I know they deliver most of the times, 534 00:37:57.300 --> 00:38:02.700 but they recover fabulously. It's nice, it's and that's where we really have an 535 00:38:02.700 --> 00:38:05.460 opportunity to make a really strong impression. The worst thing that can 536 00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:08.860 happen from a customer experience standpoint is that people are just 537 00:38:08.860 --> 00:38:12.220 indifferent. Obviously, we would like everyone to go away and be so enamored 538 00:38:12.220 --> 00:38:18.360 of of the product service, the value, the relationships that they go tell all 539 00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:21.890 their friends and, you know, unsolicited Go leave you an amazing 540 00:38:21.890 --> 00:38:25.070 online review. Of course, we know that doesn't happen. There's this great 541 00:38:25.070 --> 00:38:31.130 middle of indifference, and I think we overlook the opportunity that we have 542 00:38:31.130 --> 00:38:35.140 when someone is even moderately. They're slightly disappointed if they 543 00:38:35.140 --> 00:38:39.620 communicate that in any way, that's a huge opportunity to reach out, connect 544 00:38:39.620 --> 00:38:43.780 and completely changed the dynamic. I think you know, reaching into that 545 00:38:43.780 --> 00:38:47.150 middle of indifference is a lot more challenging than taking something even 546 00:38:47.120 --> 00:38:50.620 slightly negative and immediately turning someone into a customer for 547 00:38:50.620 --> 00:38:57.490 life. Most definitely, it's an opportunity. Capture it. Absolutely So, 548 00:38:57.500 --> 00:39:01.300 Jim, you do all kinds of different stuff. We've mentioned to podcasts, a 549 00:39:01.300 --> 00:39:04.490 couple different organizations that you do work through. If someone wants to 550 00:39:04.490 --> 00:39:08.030 follow up with you or any of the work that you do, we're a few places you 551 00:39:08.030 --> 00:39:12.030 might send them. You know, the easiest thing is just initially connect with me 552 00:39:12.030 --> 00:39:17.000 through Lincoln. There's not many rim box in the world are a MBA ch. And if 553 00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:20.420 you were just a look of that name, if I didn't come up, I would I would be 554 00:39:20.420 --> 00:39:23.660 surprised because, like I said, there's only a couple 100 of us throughout the 555 00:39:23.660 --> 00:39:29.180 entire globe. Oh, wow. Okay, cool. So I will add that link as mentioned at bom 556 00:39:29.180 --> 00:39:33.390 bom dot com slash podcast. Where we write up these episodes, we have links 557 00:39:33.390 --> 00:39:38.860 to the full embedded audio. Of course, we have video clips from these 558 00:39:38.860 --> 00:39:42.420 conversations, some choice takeaways and moments from it on. There have been 559 00:39:42.420 --> 00:39:46.030 plenty here, Jim. I really appreciate your time and and the insights that you 560 00:39:46.030 --> 00:39:51.130 shared with us. The pleasure's been mine. Thank you, Ethan E. So appreciate 561 00:39:51.130 --> 00:39:55.340 that Jim kept it local there with that bakery in Greensboro, North Carolina. 562 00:39:55.350 --> 00:39:59.910 Where are you listening from? I'd love to know that you're listening. I'd love 563 00:39:59.910 --> 00:40:03.820 to know what you think. I'd love to know where you are. Reach out to me, 564 00:40:03.830 --> 00:40:09.140 Ethan Butte. You can reach me by email. Ethan E T h a n at bom bom dot com Or 565 00:40:09.140 --> 00:40:16.490 better yet, on LinkedIn e t h a n b e e u t e Hit me up with your thoughts, 566 00:40:16.490 --> 00:40:20.330 your feedback, your opinions, anything you want to share about the c X Siris 567 00:40:20.330 --> 00:40:24.250 on B two b growth. And if you wanna learn even more about how to use video 568 00:40:24.250 --> 00:40:28.690 something Jim and I talked about check out, re humanize your business. You can 569 00:40:28.690 --> 00:40:31.870 search re humanize your business at Amazon or wherever you prefer to buy 570 00:40:31.870 --> 00:40:36.920 books where you can check it out at bom bom dot com slash book. It's the 571 00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:42.850 complete what? Why, Who, when and how of a movement we call relationships 572 00:40:42.860 --> 00:40:47.370 through video. Personal, effective human. A great way to connect and 573 00:40:47.370 --> 00:40:51.620 communicate with people. I appreciate you listening to the c x Siri's here on 574 00:40:51.630 --> 00:40:54.230 B two b growth. I hope you have a great rest of your day. 575 00:40:56.910 --> 00:41:02.070 Gary V says it all the time, and we agree. Every company should think of 576 00:41:02.070 --> 00:41:07.070 themselves as a media company first, then whatever it is they actually do, 577 00:41:07.610 --> 00:41:11.380 if you know this is true. But your team has already maxed out and you can't 578 00:41:11.380 --> 00:41:15.780 produce any more content in house. We can help. We produce podcast for some 579 00:41:15.780 --> 00:41:19.710 of the most innovative BB brands in the world. We also helped him turn the 580 00:41:19.710 --> 00:41:24.400 content from the podcast and the block posts, micro videos and slide decks 581 00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:27.820 that worked really well on LinkedIn. If you wanna learn more, go to sweet Fish 582 00:41:27.820 --> 00:41:33.440 media dot com slash launch or email Logan at sweet fish media dot com.